Good PR though. It’s put the Brecon Beacons on the tourist map just in time for the summer.
I think it falls into the category of “owning the toffs”, the playground left equivalent of owning the libs. Policy for the sake of pissing off the other side is a growth industry.
Which of course further fuels division in our society.
FPT, private education seems like a waste of money. Typically, one is spending £20,000 a year, per head, out of after-tax income, to have some privileged left wing head teacher trying to indoctrinate one's children into far left politics.
Far better just to move to a place where the State schools are good.
If education is your priority, you could do a lot more with £20k than a mini hogwarts experience. Take them to the pyramids, the Smithsonion, Athens, Rome and still have money left over to coach them in whatever sport they fancy.
Rather than criticising people who send their children to private schools we should be actively thanking them and encouraging more of it.
Each one donates £6,500 to the public purse by not taking up a state school space, and makes personal sacrifices to facilitate that donation.
FPT, private education seems like a waste of money. Typically, one is spending £20,000 a year, per head, out of after-tax income, to have some privileged left wing head teacher trying to indoctrinate one's children into far left politics.
Far better just to move to a place where the State schools are good.
I’ve come to think that myself. Our son is at a private school. It’s bloody expensive, and yes he’s getting good teaching and pastoral support but he’d have done fine in the state school he had a place for too, and would be better placed for university applications. I wouldn’t describe his teachers as remotely far left though (or privileged for that matter).
Once you get sucked into the private system it’s a massive guilt trip. Because you’re shelling out cash it has to be better? No. You can be far better off elsewhere and if you think of the opportunity cost it’s a very bad deal.
I went through a few months of guilt tripping myself about not sending my older shyer daughter to a private school. But in the end she went to a jolly good comp and is now at an outstanding 6th form and is thriving, in her own way, and looking at top notch universities so I think hey, maybe I saved £200,000, nice one
My younger daughter is ebullient and would probably thrive anywhere so it didn’t matter
The local comp delivered straight A*s , a love of Rugby, a musical instrument and friends for life. With money saved, we did all sorts of trips.
Job done.
Agreed
I also think it’s spiritually and morally better to go to a state school, if you can. You will understand your own country and your compatriots so much better
Public school kids are always faintly and embarrassingly clueless about fundamental aspects of Britain
What is this “Britain” you mention?
But seriously there’s a weird reverse snobbery about public school kids I find a bit odd. It’s usually along the lines of them being so isolated and in a bubble they have no idea about “real life”.
It shows a lack of knowledge that people at public schools have a wider exposure to people from different countries and cultures than anyone who isn’t in some cosmopolitan inner city state school. My housemates were literally from all around the world; Thai, Russian, Malaysian, HK, China, India, France, Germany, Switzerland, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Scotland.
That same group consisted of Catholic, CofE, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim and atheist.
Their backgrounds were wide ranging from children of overseas politicians, nobles, diplomats, sons of small business owners whose grandparents were helping with the fees and assisted places kids. And the British kids were from all parts of the country from all furthest points of the compass.
And funnily enough we also mixed socially with our peers in the state system out of school.
Your average state school kid will go through their time with a cohort from a pretty similar demographic because of catchment areas. A state school in a wealthy part of Cheshire might have as many wealthy kids but probably drawn from a pretty identikit background and a comp in inner city Southampton is going to generally have kids from similar backgrounds.
So no school system gives kids some total “real” insight into the makeup of the country and if you go to your state school in a very white middle class area then you can’t fling shit at public school kids re having their finger on the pulse of the nation as they will have had a narrower experience of people in their formative years.
I went to a state school. But half my friends are private school kids. The latter are genuinely and notably more clueless about normal daily life in the UK. It’s just a fact
On the other hand I have seen the big advantage you get from a really good private school - eg Westminster, Winchester, Eton - in terms of lifelong networks
Also, a small number of public schools - particularly places like Winchester and Westminster, I would say, are good at teaching at critical thinking. Two of the most intelligent people I've met were from those two schools, and not particuiarly socially networked. PBers will know that my views on Eton and a few other schools are less favourable.
Once Labour changes the rules on VAT and charitable status, the last of the non-ultra rich British-based kids now there will be forced to leave. The most famoust schools have a huge ready market and profile in Asia, which will step in instead, and fill the gap.
It's a myth that these give "life long" networks that, if it was ever true, expired a hundred years ago.
I'm only in touch with two people I used to go to school with, neither of which are particularly influential. All my useful professional contacts have come from ex-university friends or colleagues and peers I've worked with since graduation.
That's how it works these days. Not the old school tie.
The pulsing veins induced by King Chic making public atonement for the Royal Family’s involvement in slavery is going to be fantastic.
This too.
At our local Lib Dem gathering last night the (increasingly elderly) members were delighted to see our kid Floella in a prominent role for the coronation. Britain’s most popular Lib Dem.
And she was a childhood crush of mine. Which I think should be the main deciding factor on who gets invited to the coronation.
FPT, private education seems like a waste of money. Typically, one is spending £20,000 a year, per head, out of after-tax income, to have some privileged left wing head teacher trying to indoctrinate one's children into far left politics.
Far better just to move to a place where the State schools are good.
I’ve come to think that myself. Our son is at a private school. It’s bloody expensive, and yes he’s getting good teaching and pastoral support but he’d have done fine in the state school he had a place for too, and would be better placed for university applications. I wouldn’t describe his teachers as remotely far left though (or privileged for that matter).
Once you get sucked into the private system it’s a massive guilt trip. Because you’re shelling out cash it has to be better? No. You can be far better off elsewhere and if you think of the opportunity cost it’s a very bad deal.
I went through a few months of guilt tripping myself about not sending my older shyer daughter to a private school. But in the end she went to a jolly good comp and is now at an outstanding 6th form and is thriving, in her own way, and looking at top notch universities so I think hey, maybe I saved £200,000, nice one
My younger daughter is ebullient and would probably thrive anywhere so it didn’t matter
The local comp delivered straight A*s , a love of Rugby, a musical instrument and friends for life. With money saved, we did all sorts of trips.
Job done.
Agreed
I also think it’s spiritually and morally better to go to a state school, if you can. You will understand your own country and your compatriots so much better
Public school kids are always faintly and embarrassingly clueless about fundamental aspects of Britain
What is this “Britain” you mention?
But seriously there’s a weird reverse snobbery about public school kids I find a bit odd. It’s usually along the lines of them being so isolated and in a bubble they have no idea about “real life”.
It shows a lack of knowledge that people at public schools have a wider exposure to people from different countries and cultures than anyone who isn’t in some cosmopolitan inner city state school. My housemates were literally from all around the world; Thai, Russian, Malaysian, HK, China, India, France, Germany, Switzerland, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Scotland.
That same group consisted of Catholic, CofE, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim and atheist.
Their backgrounds were wide ranging from children of overseas politicians, nobles, diplomats, sons of small business owners whose grandparents were helping with the fees and assisted places kids. And the British kids were from all parts of the country from all furthest points of the compass.
And funnily enough we also mixed socially with our peers in the state system out of school.
Your average state school kid will go through their time with a cohort from a pretty similar demographic because of catchment areas. A state school in a wealthy part of Cheshire might have as many wealthy kids but probably drawn from a pretty identikit background and a comp in inner city Southampton is going to generally have kids from similar backgrounds.
So no school system gives kids some total “real” insight into the makeup of the country and if you go to your state school in a very white middle class area then you can’t fling shit at public school kids re having their finger on the pulse of the nation as they will have had a narrower experience of people in their formative years.
I went to a state school. But half my friends are private school kids. The latter are genuinely and notably more clueless about normal daily life in the UK. It’s just a fact
On the other hand I have seen the big advantage you get from a really good private school - eg Westminster, Winchester, Eton - in terms of lifelong networks
Also, a small number of public schools - particularly places like Winchester and Westminster, I would say, are good at teaching at critical thinking. Two of the most intelligent people I've met were from those two schools, and not particuiarly socially networked. PBers will know that my views on Eton and a few other schools are less favourable.
Once Labour changes the rules on VAT and charitable status, the last of the non-ultra rich British-based kids now there will be forced to leave. The most famoust schools have a huge ready market and profile in Asia, which will step in instead, and fill the gap.
It's a myth that these give "life long" networks that, if it was ever true, expired a hundred years ago.
I'm only in touch with two people I used to go to school with, neither of which are particularly influential. All my useful professional contacts have come from ex-university friends or colleagues and peers I've worked with since graduation.
That's how it works these days. Not the old school tie.
Did you go to Winchester, Westminster or Eton?
I know a dozen people that did, and their networks are remarkably advantageous. I’m talking about the really elite public schools here
Friends who went to middling or minor private schools barely have old school networks at all. University was more important for them (as it was for me)
Rishi Sunak’s allies say he achieved Job 1 of his premiership in his first 6 months: stabilising the Tories and starting to close the polls
But they warn Job 2 in the next 6 months is far harder: avoiding getting stuck
Tory ministers, strategists and advisers fear Sunak risks losing momentum and hitting a ceiling in the polls, as policy problems and political dramas pile up again
They are worried his 5 pledges are looking harder than first hoped
Sunak has closed the poll gap from 27 points to around 15, winning back typical Tory voters, aides say
Polls likely to narrow further ahead of general, both sides say
But the next group is far harder, and without them Tories still looking at a big loss
This is quite obvious really. The actual problems we have don't have quick solutions of any sort. They can't when your problems include high tax, poor public services, high debt levels and high borrowing and you face an election next year not next century.
As to something called 5 pledges. Maybe I am getting forgetful, but I follow politics. I cannot name, not will anyone I know, off the cuff what any of these pledges are. There are no votes in this.
I think Keir Starmer has 5 pledges too. Ditto.
Don't worry if you can't recall the 5 pledges. If Sunak doesn't meet any of them, his opponents will remind you, loud and often.
I saw Stella Creasy's comments in the Times about an online troll trying to get her children put into care for her 'anti-men' views.
While it is deplorable someone should do this, I did laugh at her comment that it was horrendous someone would suggest her children should be taken away of her views. I don't think she had expressed any horror when (I think) Doncaster Social Services wanted to take away a child because the parents voted for UKIP.
I did also laugh at, because the Police said there wasn't a criminal offence, she now wants to introduce a new criminal offence dealing specifically with what happened to her.
As usual with Stella Creasy, it's usually all about Stella Creasy...
tldr: you know its deplorable but you prefer to be amused by it and of course find the whataboutery angle.
And of course, because it's someone from your own side, you can't see the hypocrisy of someone who is as vocal as Creasy complaining about her own treatment when she didn't defend others who faced the same predicament.
As for the 'whataboutery' the usual left response when hypocrisy is pointed out.
The hypocrisy is not so much pointed out as made up.
FPT, private education seems like a waste of money. Typically, one is spending £20,000 a year, per head, out of after-tax income, to have some privileged left wing head teacher trying to indoctrinate one's children into far left politics.
Far better just to move to a place where the State schools are good.
I’ve come to think that myself. Our son is at a private school. It’s bloody expensive, and yes he’s getting good teaching and pastoral support but he’d have done fine in the state school he had a place for too, and would be better placed for university applications. I wouldn’t describe his teachers as remotely far left though (or privileged for that matter).
Once you get sucked into the private system it’s a massive guilt trip. Because you’re shelling out cash it has to be better? No. You can be far better off elsewhere and if you think of the opportunity cost it’s a very bad deal.
I went through a few months of guilt tripping myself about not sending my older shyer daughter to a private school. But in the end she went to a jolly good comp and is now at an outstanding 6th form and is thriving, in her own way, and looking at top notch universities so I think hey, maybe I saved £200,000, nice one
My younger daughter is ebullient and would probably thrive anywhere so it didn’t matter
The local comp delivered straight A*s , a love of Rugby, a musical instrument and friends for life. With money saved, we did all sorts of trips.
Job done.
Agreed
I also think it’s spiritually and morally better to go to a state school, if you can. You will understand your own country and your compatriots so much better
Public school kids are always faintly and embarrassingly clueless about fundamental aspects of Britain
What is this “Britain” you mention?
But seriously there’s a weird reverse snobbery about public school kids I find a bit odd. It’s usually along the lines of them being so isolated and in a bubble they have no idea about “real life”.
It shows a lack of knowledge that people at public schools have a wider exposure to people from different countries and cultures than anyone who isn’t in some cosmopolitan inner city state school. My housemates were literally from all around the world; Thai, Russian, Malaysian, HK, China, India, France, Germany, Switzerland, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Scotland.
That same group consisted of Catholic, CofE, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim and atheist.
Their backgrounds were wide ranging from children of overseas politicians, nobles, diplomats, sons of small business owners whose grandparents were helping with the fees and assisted places kids. And the British kids were from all parts of the country from all furthest points of the compass.
And funnily enough we also mixed socially with our peers in the state system out of school.
Your average state school kid will go through their time with a cohort from a pretty similar demographic because of catchment areas. A state school in a wealthy part of Cheshire might have as many wealthy kids but probably drawn from a pretty identikit background and a comp in inner city Southampton is going to generally have kids from similar backgrounds.
So no school system gives kids some total “real” insight into the makeup of the country and if you go to your state school in a very white middle class area then you can’t fling shit at public school kids re having their finger on the pulse of the nation as they will have had a narrower experience of people in their formative years.
I went to a state school. But half my friends are private school kids. The latter are genuinely and notably more clueless about normal daily life in the UK. It’s just a fact
On the other hand I have seen the big advantage you get from a really good private school - eg Westminster, Winchester, Eton - in terms of lifelong networks
Also, a small number of public schools - particularly places like Winchester and Westminster, I would say, are good at teaching at critical thinking. Two of the most intelligent people I've met were from those two schools, and not particuiarly socially networked. PBers will know that my views on Eton and a few other schools are less favourable.
Once Labour changes the rules on VAT and charitable status, the last of the non-ultra rich British-based kids now there will be forced to leave. The most famoust schools have a huge ready market and profile in Asia, which will step in instead, and fill the gap.
It's a myth that these give "life long" networks that, if it was ever true, expired a hundred years ago.
I'm only in touch with two people I used to go to school with, neither of which are particularly influential. All my useful professional contacts have come from ex-university friends or colleagues and peers I've worked with since graduation.
That's how it works these days. Not the old school tie.
Did you go to Winchester, Westminster or Eton?
I know a dozen people that did, and their networks are remarkably advantageous. I’m talking about the really elite public schools here
Friends who went to middling or minor private schools barely have old school networks at all. University was more important for them (as it was for me)
On the other hand, the people I know from Winchester and Westminster are an academic who used to be in a rock band, and a playwright. They've both suffered penniliessness for long periods, and one used to live in a squat. I know these schools also encompass the financially very much more privileged, and I'm sure in the last 20 years they make up a larger proprortion of the students, as the intelligentsia is more priced out.
I saw Stella Creasy's comments in the Times about an online troll trying to get her children put into care for her 'anti-men' views.
While it is deplorable someone should do this, I did laugh at her comment that it was horrendous someone would suggest her children should be taken away of her views. I don't think she had expressed any horror when (I think) Doncaster Social Services wanted to take away a child because the parents voted for UKIP.
I did also laugh at, because the Police said there wasn't a criminal offence, she now wants to introduce a new criminal offence dealing specifically with what happened to her.
As usual with Stella Creasy, it's usually all about Stella Creasy...
I don't know (and doubt if you know) whether SC expressed a view about the Doncaster case, but I do think that there should be reasonable limits to the extent to which public figures can be harassed by random strangers alleging made-up offences. A triage approach enabling the police to dismiss obviously unreasonable complaints immediately would be helpful.
When I was an MP, a far-right group made a nonsense allegation against me. I was told unofficially by the police that they could see it was rubbish and not to worry, they'd deal with it eventually with minimal priority. It took a year or so before they formally notified me that the complaint had been dismissed. That was a year of minor "what if..." worry that I'd have been glad to be spared..
This sort of thing discourages quite blameless people from going into politics, since every constituency may have a nutter willing to try on anything that might bother you and your family. Clearly serious allegations should be pursued, but random ones raised without evidence should be treated as wasting police time.
Sorry to hear that Nick and you are right making malicious false allegations merely for political point scoring is wrong.
My slight counterpoint to this was that you were a MP and therefore were able to call upon a level of contact others may not have. Ordinary people also get subjected to this sort of thing and don't have recourse to a page in The Times. SC has never shown any interest - as far as I know - in protecting people from this sort of action. The first time it seems to have sprung into her head is when she has been subjected to it.
Yes, I agree that anyone being subject to frivolous allegations is suffering unfairly, and there should be a fast-track approach to dismissing them. But it's probably true that figures in the public eye are more subject to it than most. We have an adversarial culture, so at any moment there will be perhaps 10,000 constituents who actively hope that you'll fail. Most won't, of course, wish you personal harm, but if ONE of them is a nutter, they can make something up and give you and your family a bad time. (That might be why most people here post under pseudonyms.)
It's a hazard of public life, which already has enough hazards deterring good people.
From what I’ve seen, Eton really helps if you want to go into politics, law, business, journalism
Westminster really helps if you want to go into the media, arts, drama, TV
Winchester is good for business, academe maybe
That’s my purely subjective experience from looking at friends over decades
A lot of academics from both Winchester and Westminster, and St Paul's. Those three probably produce the most academics of all of them, while Westminster is proud of its highest Oxbridge record.
From what I’ve seen, Eton really helps if you want to go into politics, law, business, journalism
Westminster really helps if you want to go into the media, arts, drama, TV
Winchester is good for business, academe maybe
That’s my purely subjective experience from looking at friends over decades
A lot of academics from both those schools, and St Paul's. Those three probably produce the most academics of all of them, while Westminster is proud of its highest Oxbridge record.
It will be interesting to see what evolves as universities, including Oxbridge, increasingly discriminate against public school toffs. I imagine we will see a lot of parents pulling their kids out of public school at 16 and putting them in really good state 6th forms, so they can claim they are state educated
FPT, private education seems like a waste of money. Typically, one is spending £20,000 a year, per head, out of after-tax income, to have some privileged left wing head teacher trying to indoctrinate one's children into far left politics.
Far better just to move to a place where the State schools are good.
I’ve come to think that myself. Our son is at a private school. It’s bloody expensive, and yes he’s getting good teaching and pastoral support but he’d have done fine in the state school he had a place for too, and would be better placed for university applications. I wouldn’t describe his teachers as remotely far left though (or privileged for that matter).
Once you get sucked into the private system it’s a massive guilt trip. Because you’re shelling out cash it has to be better? No. You can be far better off elsewhere and if you think of the opportunity cost it’s a very bad deal.
I went through a few months of guilt tripping myself about not sending my older shyer daughter to a private school. But in the end she went to a jolly good comp and is now at an outstanding 6th form and is thriving, in her own way, and looking at top notch universities so I think hey, maybe I saved £200,000, nice one
My younger daughter is ebullient and would probably thrive anywhere so it didn’t matter
The local comp delivered straight A*s , a love of Rugby, a musical instrument and friends for life. With money saved, we did all sorts of trips.
Job done.
Agreed
I also think it’s spiritually and morally better to go to a state school, if you can. You will understand your own country and your compatriots so much better
Public school kids are always faintly and embarrassingly clueless about fundamental aspects of Britain
What is this “Britain” you mention?
But seriously there’s a weird reverse snobbery about public school kids I find a bit odd. It’s usually along the lines of them being so isolated and in a bubble they have no idea about “real life”.
It shows a lack of knowledge that people at public schools have a wider exposure to people from different countries and cultures than anyone who isn’t in some cosmopolitan inner city state school. My housemates were literally from all around the world; Thai, Russian, Malaysian, HK, China, India, France, Germany, Switzerland, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Scotland.
That same group consisted of Catholic, CofE, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim and atheist.
Their backgrounds were wide ranging from children of overseas politicians, nobles, diplomats, sons of small business owners whose grandparents were helping with the fees and assisted places kids. And the British kids were from all parts of the country from all furthest points of the compass.
And funnily enough we also mixed socially with our peers in the state system out of school.
Your average state school kid will go through their time with a cohort from a pretty similar demographic because of catchment areas. A state school in a wealthy part of Cheshire might have as many wealthy kids but probably drawn from a pretty identikit background and a comp in inner city Southampton is going to generally have kids from similar backgrounds.
So no school system gives kids some total “real” insight into the makeup of the country and if you go to your state school in a very white middle class area then you can’t fling shit at public school kids re having their finger on the pulse of the nation as they will have had a narrower experience of people in their formative years.
I went to a state school. But half my friends are private school kids. The latter are genuinely and notably more clueless about normal daily life in the UK. It’s just a fact
On the other hand I have seen the big advantage you get from a really good private school - eg Westminster, Winchester, Eton - in terms of lifelong networks
Also, a small number of public schools - particularly places like Winchester and Westminster, I would say, are good at teaching at critical thinking. Two of the most intelligent people I've met were from those two schools, and not particuiarly socially networked. PBers will know that my views on Eton and a few other schools are less favourable.
Once Labour changes the rules on VAT and charitable status, the last of the non-ultra rich British-based kids now there will be forced to leave. The most famoust schools have a huge ready market and profile in Asia, which will step in instead, and fill the gap.
It's a myth that these give "life long" networks that, if it was ever true, expired a hundred years ago.
I'm only in touch with two people I used to go to school with, neither of which are particularly influential. All my useful professional contacts have come from ex-university friends or colleagues and peers I've worked with since graduation.
That's how it works these days. Not the old school tie.
Did you go to Winchester, Westminster or Eton?
I know a dozen people that did, and their networks are remarkably advantageous. I’m talking about the really elite public schools here
Friends who went to middling or minor private schools barely have old school networks at all. University was more important for them (as it was for me)
Nope. Very small and minor private schools.
I know how tightly they operate and the sacrifices my parents made to send me there - we didn't go abroad for the first 10 years of my life. At all.
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Difficult to form a judgement without knowing the background and how things look from the perspective of the police. Still, giving the police/courts these kind of powers should make us all feel uncomfortable.
I’d be interested in @Cyclefree or @DavidL ‘s opinion, if they’re lurking ??
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Happened to a (pretty senior) guy I went skiing with on a work do last year. He f'ed and blinded about Brexit like it was nobody's business.
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
FPT, private education seems like a waste of money. Typically, one is spending £20,000 a year, per head, out of after-tax income, to have some privileged left wing head teacher trying to indoctrinate one's children into far left politics.
Far better just to move to a place where the State schools are good.
I’ve come to think that myself. Our son is at a private school. It’s bloody expensive, and yes he’s getting good teaching and pastoral support but he’d have done fine in the state school he had a place for too, and would be better placed for university applications. I wouldn’t describe his teachers as remotely far left though (or privileged for that matter).
Once you get sucked into the private system it’s a massive guilt trip. Because you’re shelling out cash it has to be better? No. You can be far better off elsewhere and if you think of the opportunity cost it’s a very bad deal.
I went through a few months of guilt tripping myself about not sending my older shyer daughter to a private school. But in the end she went to a jolly good comp and is now at an outstanding 6th form and is thriving, in her own way, and looking at top notch universities so I think hey, maybe I saved £200,000, nice one
My younger daughter is ebullient and would probably thrive anywhere so it didn’t matter
The local comp delivered straight A*s , a love of Rugby, a musical instrument and friends for life. With money saved, we did all sorts of trips.
Job done.
Agreed
I also think it’s spiritually and morally better to go to a state school, if you can. You will understand your own country and your compatriots so much better
Public school kids are always faintly and embarrassingly clueless about fundamental aspects of Britain
What is this “Britain” you mention?
But seriously there’s a weird reverse snobbery about public school kids I find a bit odd. It’s usually along the lines of them being so isolated and in a bubble they have no idea about “real life”.
It shows a lack of knowledge that people at public schools have a wider exposure to people from different countries and cultures than anyone who isn’t in some cosmopolitan inner city state school. My housemates were literally from all around the world; Thai, Russian, Malaysian, HK, China, India, France, Germany, Switzerland, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Scotland.
That same group consisted of Catholic, CofE, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim and atheist.
Their backgrounds were wide ranging from children of overseas politicians, nobles, diplomats, sons of small business owners whose grandparents were helping with the fees and assisted places kids. And the British kids were from all parts of the country from all furthest points of the compass.
And funnily enough we also mixed socially with our peers in the state system out of school.
Your average state school kid will go through their time with a cohort from a pretty similar demographic because of catchment areas. A state school in a wealthy part of Cheshire might have as many wealthy kids but probably drawn from a pretty identikit background and a comp in inner city Southampton is going to generally have kids from similar backgrounds.
So no school system gives kids some total “real” insight into the makeup of the country and if you go to your state school in a very white middle class area then you can’t fling shit at public school kids re having their finger on the pulse of the nation as they will have had a narrower experience of people in their formative years.
I went to a state school. But half my friends are private school kids. The latter are genuinely and notably more clueless about normal daily life in the UK. It’s just a fact
On the other hand I have seen the big advantage you get from a really good private school - eg Westminster, Winchester, Eton - in terms of lifelong networks
Also, a small number of public schools - particularly places like Winchester and Westminster, I would say, are good at teaching at critical thinking. Two of the most intelligent people I've met were from those two schools, and not particuiarly socially networked. PBers will know that my views on Eton and a few other schools are less favourable.
Once Labour changes the rules on VAT and charitable status, the last of the non-ultra rich British-based kids now there will be forced to leave. The most famoust schools have a huge ready market and profile in Asia, which will step in instead, and fill the gap.
It's a myth that these give "life long" networks that, if it was ever true, expired a hundred years ago.
I'm only in touch with two people I used to go to school with, neither of which are particularly influential. All my useful professional contacts have come from ex-university friends or colleagues and peers I've worked with since graduation.
That's how it works these days. Not the old school tie.
Did you go to Winchester, Westminster or Eton?
I know a dozen people that did, and their networks are remarkably advantageous. I’m talking about the really elite public schools here
Friends who went to middling or minor private schools barely have old school networks at all. University was more important for them (as it was for me)
Nope. Very small and minor private schools.
I know how tightly they operate and the sacrifices my parents made to send me there - we didn't go abroad for the first 10 years of my life. At all.
Probably why I feel so passionately about it.
So we’re talking about very different things, not really arguing at all
Yes, the King has a different coalition of strongest supporters than the late Queen.
While Elizabeth II was respected by most, her strongest supporters were Tories and Leavers.
From my experience however Charles III, while not disliked by most except ardent Republicans, has his most staunch supporters amongst One Nation Tories and Liberal Democrats and even the Mirror likes his reforms. Right wing Leavers think he is too woke
FPT, private education seems like a waste of money. Typically, one is spending £20,000 a year, per head, out of after-tax income, to have some privileged left wing head teacher trying to indoctrinate one's children into far left politics.
Far better just to move to a place where the State schools are good.
I’ve come to think that myself. Our son is at a private school. It’s bloody expensive, and yes he’s getting good teaching and pastoral support but he’d have done fine in the state school he had a place for too, and would be better placed for university applications. I wouldn’t describe his teachers as remotely far left though (or privileged for that matter).
Once you get sucked into the private system it’s a massive guilt trip. Because you’re shelling out cash it has to be better? No. You can be far better off elsewhere and if you think of the opportunity cost it’s a very bad deal.
I went through a few months of guilt tripping myself about not sending my older shyer daughter to a private school. But in the end she went to a jolly good comp and is now at an outstanding 6th form and is thriving, in her own way, and looking at top notch universities so I think hey, maybe I saved £200,000, nice one
My younger daughter is ebullient and would probably thrive anywhere so it didn’t matter
The local comp delivered straight A*s , a love of Rugby, a musical instrument and friends for life. With money saved, we did all sorts of trips.
Job done.
Agreed
I also think it’s spiritually and morally better to go to a state school, if you can. You will understand your own country and your compatriots so much better
Public school kids are always faintly and embarrassingly clueless about fundamental aspects of Britain
What is this “Britain” you mention?
But seriously there’s a weird reverse snobbery about public school kids I find a bit odd. It’s usually along the lines of them being so isolated and in a bubble they have no idea about “real life”.
It shows a lack of knowledge that people at public schools have a wider exposure to people from different countries and cultures than anyone who isn’t in some cosmopolitan inner city state school. My housemates were literally from all around the world; Thai, Russian, Malaysian, HK, China, India, France, Germany, Switzerland, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Scotland.
That same group consisted of Catholic, CofE, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim and atheist.
Their backgrounds were wide ranging from children of overseas politicians, nobles, diplomats, sons of small business owners whose grandparents were helping with the fees and assisted places kids. And the British kids were from all parts of the country from all furthest points of the compass.
And funnily enough we also mixed socially with our peers in the state system out of school.
Your average state school kid will go through their time with a cohort from a pretty similar demographic because of catchment areas. A state school in a wealthy part of Cheshire might have as many wealthy kids but probably drawn from a pretty identikit background and a comp in inner city Southampton is going to generally have kids from similar backgrounds.
So no school system gives kids some total “real” insight into the makeup of the country and if you go to your state school in a very white middle class area then you can’t fling shit at public school kids re having their finger on the pulse of the nation as they will have had a narrower experience of people in their formative years.
I went to a state school. But half my friends are private school kids. The latter are genuinely and notably more clueless about normal daily life in the UK. It’s just a fact
On the other hand I have seen the big advantage you get from a really good private school - eg Westminster, Winchester, Eton - in terms of lifelong networks
Also, a small number of public schools - particularly places like Winchester and Westminster, I would say, are good at teaching at critical thinking. Two of the most intelligent people I've met were from those two schools, and not particuiarly socially networked. PBers will know that my views on Eton and a few other schools are less favourable.
Once Labour changes the rules on VAT and charitable status, the last of the non-ultra rich British-based kids now there will be forced to leave. The most famoust schools have a huge ready market and profile in Asia, which will step in instead, and fill the gap.
It's a myth that these give "life long" networks that, if it was ever true, expired a hundred years ago.
I'm only in touch with two people I used to go to school with, neither of which are particularly influential. All my useful professional contacts have come from ex-university friends or colleagues and peers I've worked with since graduation.
That's how it works these days. Not the old school tie.
Did you go to Winchester, Westminster or Eton?
I know a dozen people that did, and their networks are remarkably advantageous. I’m talking about the really elite public schools here
Friends who went to middling or minor private schools barely have old school networks at all. University was more important for them (as it was for me)
Nope. Very small and minor private schools.
I know how tightly they operate and the sacrifices my parents made to send me there - we didn't go abroad for the first 10 years of my life. At all.
Probably why I feel so passionately about it.
I didn't go abroad for the first 15 years of my life. At all. But that's because we were poor.
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
Mine teaches children air rifle shooting from the age of 6, and is having a whole day dedicated to writing letters to the King congratulating him on his coronation next Friday. It also has its main school hall dedicated to British engineering feats, with a model spitfire and concorde the kids have helped to make hanging from the ceiling.
Judging by some of the reactions to my view of the awful caricature contained in this cartoon, (1) we need much more education in this country about c20th history, and (2) the situation is worse than even I'd feared.
It takes a lot to shock me. And I am well aware of the Guardian's and especially Rowson's form. But I still find it genuinely shocking that not a single person looked at this and said, no, we can't run this. To me that's the real issue.
If I’m honest I suspect the more rabid republicans have overegged the pudding when it comes to King Charles. We’ve been hearing for decades that he was going to be so awful as King that he would blow the monarchy up.
Whilst I think it’s undeniable he has mellowed with age, his positives have often been overlooked. He comes across as a well meaning, engaged character if faintly dull. Camilla comes across as a pleasant country grandma type rather than an evil seductress. Basically they are not what they have been painted as for many years, so to borrow a phrase it was always likely they would, ahem, surprise on the upside…
SouthamObserver said FPT:...The National Conservative movement also seems to be gaining a lot of ground...
I am bloody annoyed about this. There's a very narrow Overton Window in the chattering classes and UK people really think Corbyn is far-left and Farage far-right, but by world standards they aren't (not sure about Corbyn, but bear with me for a moment).
I've been arguing for years that we need to import terms from places other than the US to enable us to handle shades of gray (blue, red, whatevs). "National Conservatism" in the European sense has been around for decades, esp in Eastern Europe. It partly fills the gap between Christian Democracy and Fascism - think Kinder, Küche, Kirche with added homophobia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_conservatism
But suddenly some American japanapes comes along, steals the name and it's the new hotness. Andrew Marr seems genuinely surprised. Crikey dude, you should know stuff like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w05Roqj4HRM
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
Mine teaches children air rifle shooting from the age of 6, and is having a whole day dedicated to writing letters to the King congratulating him on his coronation next Friday. It also has its main school hall dedicated to British engineering feats, with a model spitfire and concorde the kids have helped to make hanging from the ceiling.
It is not left-wing.
From the description I'd never have guessed :-)
It doesn't sound like mine, but mine was more like Bedales. There is quite a lot of diversity of ethos in the private system, which gets lost if everyone thinks everywhere has the ethos of Eton.
Even among the very elite ones, Winchester, Westminster and St Paul's were always the more liberal-intellectual counterparts of Eton, Harrow, Marlborough et al.
FPT, private education seems like a waste of money. Typically, one is spending £20,000 a year, per head, out of after-tax income, to have some privileged left wing head teacher trying to indoctrinate one's children into far left politics.
Far better just to move to a place where the State schools are good.
I’ve come to think that myself. Our son is at a private school. It’s bloody expensive, and yes he’s getting good teaching and pastoral support but he’d have done fine in the state school he had a place for too, and would be better placed for university applications. I wouldn’t describe his teachers as remotely far left though (or privileged for that matter).
Once you get sucked into the private system it’s a massive guilt trip. Because you’re shelling out cash it has to be better? No. You can be far better off elsewhere and if you think of the opportunity cost it’s a very bad deal.
I went through a few months of guilt tripping myself about not sending my older shyer daughter to a private school. But in the end she went to a jolly good comp and is now at an outstanding 6th form and is thriving, in her own way, and looking at top notch universities so I think hey, maybe I saved £200,000, nice one
My younger daughter is ebullient and would probably thrive anywhere so it didn’t matter
The local comp delivered straight A*s , a love of Rugby, a musical instrument and friends for life. With money saved, we did all sorts of trips.
Job done.
Agreed
I also think it’s spiritually and morally better to go to a state school, if you can. You will understand your own country and your compatriots so much better
Public school kids are always faintly and embarrassingly clueless about fundamental aspects of Britain
What is this “Britain” you mention?
But seriously there’s a weird reverse snobbery about public school kids I find a bit odd. It’s usually along the lines of them being so isolated and in a bubble they have no idea about “real life”.
It shows a lack of knowledge that people at public schools have a wider exposure to people from different countries and cultures than anyone who isn’t in some cosmopolitan inner city state school. My housemates were literally from all around the world; Thai, Russian, Malaysian, HK, China, India, France, Germany, Switzerland, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Scotland.
That same group consisted of Catholic, CofE, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim and atheist.
Their backgrounds were wide ranging from children of overseas politicians, nobles, diplomats, sons of small business owners whose grandparents were helping with the fees and assisted places kids. And the British kids were from all parts of the country from all furthest points of the compass.
And funnily enough we also mixed socially with our peers in the state system out of school.
Your average state school kid will go through their time with a cohort from a pretty similar demographic because of catchment areas. A state school in a wealthy part of Cheshire might have as many wealthy kids but probably drawn from a pretty identikit background and a comp in inner city Southampton is going to generally have kids from similar backgrounds.
So no school system gives kids some total “real” insight into the makeup of the country and if you go to your state school in a very white middle class area then you can’t fling shit at public school kids re having their finger on the pulse of the nation as they will have had a narrower experience of people in their formative years.
I went to a state school. But half my friends are private school kids. The latter are genuinely and notably more clueless about normal daily life in the UK. It’s just a fact
On the other hand I have seen the big advantage you get from a really good private school - eg Westminster, Winchester, Eton - in terms of lifelong networks
Also, a small number of public schools - particularly places like Winchester and Westminster, I would say, are good at teaching at critical thinking. Two of the most intelligent people I've met were from those two schools, and not particuiarly socially networked. PBers will know that my views on Eton and a few other schools are less favourable.
Once Labour changes the rules on VAT and charitable status, the last of the non-ultra rich British-based kids now there will be forced to leave. The most famoust schools have a huge ready market and profile in Asia, which will step in instead, and fill the gap.
It's a myth that these give "life long" networks that, if it was ever true, expired a hundred years ago.
I'm only in touch with two people I used to go to school with, neither of which are particularly influential. All my useful professional contacts have come from ex-university friends or colleagues and peers I've worked with since graduation.
That's how it works these days. Not the old school tie.
Did you go to Winchester, Westminster or Eton?
I know a dozen people that did, and their networks are remarkably advantageous. I’m talking about the really elite public schools here
Friends who went to middling or minor private schools barely have old school networks at all. University was more important for them (as it was for me)
I can only speak from personal experience, but in terms of networking and keeping on top of developments in my industry, I have found that Linkedin is absolutely transformative. This is both from a networking and knowledge point of view.
My network from university is of little importance now and school is insignificant (and always has been). It is useful to know some accountants, lawyers, doctors etc, but not a massive deal.
I suspect that these notions about 'old school networks' have now simply been changed beyond all recognition.
I saw Stella Creasy's comments in the Times about an online troll trying to get her children put into care for her 'anti-men' views.
While it is deplorable someone should do this, I did laugh at her comment that it was horrendous someone would suggest her children should be taken away of her views. I don't think she had expressed any horror when (I think) Doncaster Social Services wanted to take away a child because the parents voted for UKIP.
I did also laugh at, because the Police said there wasn't a criminal offence, she now wants to introduce a new criminal offence dealing specifically with what happened to her.
As usual with Stella Creasy, it's usually all about Stella Creasy...
I don't know (and doubt if you know) whether SC expressed a view about the Doncaster case, but I do think that there should be reasonable limits to the extent to which public figures can be harassed by random strangers alleging made-up offences. A triage approach enabling the police to dismiss obviously unreasonable complaints immediately would be helpful.
When I was an MP, a far-right group made a nonsense allegation against me. I was told unofficially by the police that they could see it was rubbish and not to worry, they'd deal with it eventually with minimal priority. It took a year or so before they formally notified me that the complaint had been dismissed. That was a year of minor "what if..." worry that I'd have been glad to be spared..
This sort of thing discourages quite blameless people from going into politics, since every constituency may have a nutter willing to try on anything that might bother you and your family. Clearly serious allegations should be pursued, but random ones raised without evidence should be treated as wasting police time.
The police were instructed, at cabinet level, to pursue *all* allegations of child abuse.
To thunderous applause from all sides.
When they investigate *all* allegations, people start saying “not that one”.
FPT, private education seems like a waste of money. Typically, one is spending £20,000 a year, per head, out of after-tax income, to have some privileged left wing head teacher trying to indoctrinate one's children into far left politics.
Far better just to move to a place where the State schools are good.
I’ve come to think that myself. Our son is at a private school. It’s bloody expensive, and yes he’s getting good teaching and pastoral support but he’d have done fine in the state school he had a place for too, and would be better placed for university applications. I wouldn’t describe his teachers as remotely far left though (or privileged for that matter).
Once you get sucked into the private system it’s a massive guilt trip. Because you’re shelling out cash it has to be better? No. You can be far better off elsewhere and if you think of the opportunity cost it’s a very bad deal.
I went through a few months of guilt tripping myself about not sending my older shyer daughter to a private school. But in the end she went to a jolly good comp and is now at an outstanding 6th form and is thriving, in her own way, and looking at top notch universities so I think hey, maybe I saved £200,000, nice one
My younger daughter is ebullient and would probably thrive anywhere so it didn’t matter
The local comp delivered straight A*s , a love of Rugby, a musical instrument and friends for life. With money saved, we did all sorts of trips.
Job done.
Agreed
I also think it’s spiritually and morally better to go to a state school, if you can. You will understand your own country and your compatriots so much better
Public school kids are always faintly and embarrassingly clueless about fundamental aspects of Britain
What is this “Britain” you mention?
But seriously there’s a weird reverse snobbery about public school kids I find a bit odd. It’s usually along the lines of them being so isolated and in a bubble they have no idea about “real life”.
It shows a lack of knowledge that people at public schools have a wider exposure to people from different countries and cultures than anyone who isn’t in some cosmopolitan inner city state school. My housemates were literally from all around the world; Thai, Russian, Malaysian, HK, China, India, France, Germany, Switzerland, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Scotland.
That same group consisted of Catholic, CofE, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim and atheist.
Their backgrounds were wide ranging from children of overseas politicians, nobles, diplomats, sons of small business owners whose grandparents were helping with the fees and assisted places kids. And the British kids were from all parts of the country from all furthest points of the compass.
And funnily enough we also mixed socially with our peers in the state system out of school.
Your average state school kid will go through their time with a cohort from a pretty similar demographic because of catchment areas. A state school in a wealthy part of Cheshire might have as many wealthy kids but probably drawn from a pretty identikit background and a comp in inner city Southampton is going to generally have kids from similar backgrounds.
So no school system gives kids some total “real” insight into the makeup of the country and if you go to your state school in a very white middle class area then you can’t fling shit at public school kids re having their finger on the pulse of the nation as they will have had a narrower experience of people in their formative years.
I went to a state school. But half my friends are private school kids. The latter are genuinely and notably more clueless about normal daily life in the UK. It’s just a fact
On the other hand I have seen the big advantage you get from a really good private school - eg Westminster, Winchester, Eton - in terms of lifelong networks
Also, a small number of public schools - particularly places like Winchester and Westminster, I would say, are good at teaching at critical thinking. Two of the most intelligent people I've met were from those two schools, and not particuiarly socially networked. PBers will know that my views on Eton and a few other schools are less favourable.
Once Labour changes the rules on VAT and charitable status, the last of the non-ultra rich British-based kids now there will be forced to leave. The most famoust schools have a huge ready market and profile in Asia, which will step in instead, and fill the gap.
It's a myth that these give "life long" networks that, if it was ever true, expired a hundred years ago.
I'm only in touch with two people I used to go to school with, neither of which are particularly influential. All my useful professional contacts have come from ex-university friends or colleagues and peers I've worked with since graduation.
That's how it works these days. Not the old school tie.
Did you go to Winchester, Westminster or Eton?
I know a dozen people that did, and their networks are remarkably advantageous. I’m talking about the really elite public schools here
Friends who went to middling or minor private schools barely have old school networks at all. University was more important for them (as it was for me)
Nope. Very small and minor private schools.
I know how tightly they operate and the sacrifices my parents made to send me there - we didn't go abroad for the first 10 years of my life. At all.
Probably why I feel so passionately about it.
I didn't go abroad for the first 15 years of my life. At all. But that's because we were poor.
Indeed. It's quite amusing reading these hard-done-by accounts of those forced to attend minor public schools. Oh, the humanity!
Like many people, I never went on holiday abroad as a child with my family, and my first experience of foreign shores was Calais harbour on a beer-and-fags run with my mates at the age of 19. It would never have occurred to my parents to send me to private school - my dad left school at 15 with no qualifications and considered education to be a waste of time - and it never occurred to me to send my son to private school either.
You need help. I’m not kidding. This obsession is literally insane. If you post using a physical keyboard the letters “S” and “K” must be being close to worn out by now. Do you have his face on a dartboard? Put pins in voodoo dolls that have a slightly adenoidal voice if you pull a string? It’s relentless and getting worrying, particularly if you go back in the archives and see what you used to post by comparison.
The only obsession here is from you. I don't agree with BJO but wtf - leave him alone.
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
Literally the first page of google, addressing this question
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
Literally the first page of google, addressing this question
You do know that HMG and Google aren't the same don't you?
Judging by some of the reactions to my view of the awful caricature contained in this cartoon, (1) we need much more education in this country about c20th history, and (2) the situation is worse than even I'd feared.
It takes a lot to shock me. And I am well aware of the Guardian's and especially Rowson's form. But I still find it genuinely shocking that not a single person looked at this and said, no, we can't run this. To me that's the real issue.
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
Literally the first page of google, addressing this question
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
Literally the first page of google, addressing this question
You do know that HMG and Google aren't the same don't you?
If you go to HMG’s site that gives passport advice, it will give the same passport advice as Google
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
Literally the first page of google, addressing this question
You do know that HMG and Google aren't the same don't you?
And anyway that's just to ensure that your new passport arrives in time - nothing to do with Johnny Foreigner refusing to respect the official expiry dates on our passports which, I agree, is bizarrely arbitrary.
FPT, private education seems like a waste of money. Typically, one is spending £20,000 a year, per head, out of after-tax income, to have some privileged left wing head teacher trying to indoctrinate one's children into far left politics.
Far better just to move to a place where the State schools are good.
I’ve come to think that myself. Our son is at a private school. It’s bloody expensive, and yes he’s getting good teaching and pastoral support but he’d have done fine in the state school he had a place for too, and would be better placed for university applications. I wouldn’t describe his teachers as remotely far left though (or privileged for that matter).
Once you get sucked into the private system it’s a massive guilt trip. Because you’re shelling out cash it has to be better? No. You can be far better off elsewhere and if you think of the opportunity cost it’s a very bad deal.
I went through a few months of guilt tripping myself about not sending my older shyer daughter to a private school. But in the end she went to a jolly good comp and is now at an outstanding 6th form and is thriving, in her own way, and looking at top notch universities so I think hey, maybe I saved £200,000, nice one
My younger daughter is ebullient and would probably thrive anywhere so it didn’t matter
The local comp delivered straight A*s , a love of Rugby, a musical instrument and friends for life. With money saved, we did all sorts of trips.
Job done.
Agreed
I also think it’s spiritually and morally better to go to a state school, if you can. You will understand your own country and your compatriots so much better
Public school kids are always faintly and embarrassingly clueless about fundamental aspects of Britain
What is this “Britain” you mention?
But seriously there’s a weird reverse snobbery about public school kids I find a bit odd. It’s usually along the lines of them being so isolated and in a bubble they have no idea about “real life”.
It shows a lack of knowledge that people at public schools have a wider exposure to people from different countries and cultures than anyone who isn’t in some cosmopolitan inner city state school. My housemates were literally from all around the world; Thai, Russian, Malaysian, HK, China, India, France, Germany, Switzerland, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Scotland.
That same group consisted of Catholic, CofE, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim and atheist.
Their backgrounds were wide ranging from children of overseas politicians, nobles, diplomats, sons of small business owners whose grandparents were helping with the fees and assisted places kids. And the British kids were from all parts of the country from all furthest points of the compass.
And funnily enough we also mixed socially with our peers in the state system out of school.
Your average state school kid will go through their time with a cohort from a pretty similar demographic because of catchment areas. A state school in a wealthy part of Cheshire might have as many wealthy kids but probably drawn from a pretty identikit background and a comp in inner city Southampton is going to generally have kids from similar backgrounds.
So no school system gives kids some total “real” insight into the makeup of the country and if you go to your state school in a very white middle class area then you can’t fling shit at public school kids re having their finger on the pulse of the nation as they will have had a narrower experience of people in their formative years.
I went to a state school. But half my friends are private school kids. The latter are genuinely and notably more clueless about normal daily life in the UK. It’s just a fact
On the other hand I have seen the big advantage you get from a really good private school - eg Westminster, Winchester, Eton - in terms of lifelong networks
Also, a small number of public schools - particularly places like Winchester and Westminster, I would say, are good at teaching at critical thinking. Two of the most intelligent people I've met were from those two schools, and not particuiarly socially networked. PBers will know that my views on Eton and a few other schools are less favourable.
Once Labour changes the rules on VAT and charitable status, the last of the non-ultra rich British-based kids now there will be forced to leave. The most famoust schools have a huge ready market and profile in Asia, which will step in instead, and fill the gap.
It's a myth that these give "life long" networks that, if it was ever true, expired a hundred years ago.
I'm only in touch with two people I used to go to school with, neither of which are particularly influential. All my useful professional contacts have come from ex-university friends or colleagues and peers I've worked with since graduation.
That's how it works these days. Not the old school tie.
Did you go to Winchester, Westminster or Eton?
I know a dozen people that did, and their networks are remarkably advantageous. I’m talking about the really elite public schools here
Friends who went to middling or minor private schools barely have old school networks at all. University was more important for them (as it was for me)
Nope. Very small and minor private schools.
I know how tightly they operate and the sacrifices my parents made to send me there - we didn't go abroad for the first 10 years of my life. At all.
Probably why I feel so passionately about it.
So we’re talking about very different things, not really arguing at all
Judging by some of the reactions to my view of the awful caricature contained in this cartoon, (1) we need much more education in this country about c20th history, and (2) the situation is worse than even I'd feared.
It takes a lot to shock me. And I am well aware of the Guardian's and especially Rowson's form. But I still find it genuinely shocking that not a single person looked at this and said, no, we can't run this. To me that's the real issue.
Judging by some of the reactions to my view of the awful caricature contained in this cartoon, (1) we need much more education in this country about c20th history, and (2) the situation is worse than even I'd feared.
It takes a lot to shock me. And I am well aware of the Guardian's and especially Rowson's form. But I still find it genuinely shocking that not a single person looked at this and said, no, we can't run this. To me that's the real issue.
It does not just strike me as horrendously misjudged but it’s not especially good either.
I’ve always thought of the guardian as a left wing daily Mail, happy to pander to its readers basic prejudices for sales and clicks.
Yes, I love having a go at the guardian, and that Abbott letter was a disgrace, but this cartoon feels marginal. Is it really playing on anti-Jewish tropes? Hmm. Maybe. It’s unpleasant in tone, but it is a cartoon
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
Literally the first page of google, addressing this question
You do know that HMG and Google aren't the same don't you?
If you go to HMG’s site that gives passport advice, it will give the same passport advice as Google
Well I think it's the other way around. It's still not the case that many/most UK passport holders would have any expectation of their passports failing to be valid 6 months before the expiry date.
I saw Stella Creasy's comments in the Times about an online troll trying to get her children put into care for her 'anti-men' views.
While it is deplorable someone should do this, I did laugh at her comment that it was horrendous someone would suggest her children should be taken away of her views. I don't think she had expressed any horror when (I think) Doncaster Social Services wanted to take away a child because the parents voted for UKIP.
I did also laugh at, because the Police said there wasn't a criminal offence, she now wants to introduce a new criminal offence dealing specifically with what happened to her.
As usual with Stella Creasy, it's usually all about Stella Creasy...
tldr: you know its deplorable but you prefer to be amused by it and of course find the whataboutery angle.
And of course, because it's someone from your own side, you can't see the hypocrisy of someone who is as vocal as Creasy complaining about her own treatment when she didn't defend others who faced the same predicament.
As for the 'whataboutery' the usual left response when hypocrisy is pointed out.
I feel sorry for her because it basically sounds like hell being in that position as an MP, or as any controversial public figure - a fate I have spent my whole adult life trying to avoid. But then again, you can't have a policy where allegations of abuse against MP's are not investigated. If they are vexatious they should just be immediately dismissed as such, which seems to be what happened here. The other thing, is that if you want to start prosecuting people for 'misogyny', then presumably you would also need to create another equivalent offence of 'misandry', which may have some interesting consequences.
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
If a passport needs to be renewed every 10 years, why would anyone think it's okay to travel with one that is more than 10 years old?
Judging by some of the reactions to my view of the awful caricature contained in this cartoon, (1) we need much more education in this country about c20th history, and (2) the situation is worse than even I'd feared.
It takes a lot to shock me. And I am well aware of the Guardian's and especially Rowson's form. But I still find it genuinely shocking that not a single person looked at this and said, no, we can't run this. To me that's the real issue.
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
Literally the first page of google, addressing this question
So a real world example?
Passport issued 22/7/14 Expiry date 22/3/25
When do I renew it. December 2023 or July 2024
The former. I think they now only issue passports that have expiry exactly ten years after issuance to avoid this problem.
Edit: In fact, do it now while you are thinking about it.
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
Literally the first page of google, addressing this question
So a real world example?
Passport issued 22/7/14 Expiry date 22/3/25
When do I renew it. December 2023 or July 2024
Six months before the end of the ten years. This is a known travel issue. Not just an EU issue either
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
If a passport needs to be renewed every 10 years, why would anyone think it's okay to travel with one that is more than 10 years old?
Why would anyone think passports expire six months before they expire, which seems to be the de facto situation?
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
If a passport needs to be renewed every 10 years, why would anyone think it's okay to travel with one that is more than 10 years old?
But 9 years and some days? It surely expires when it expires according to any reasonable interpretation.
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
I knew this rule but it always struck me as making no sense. Surely something should cease to be valid on the date it expires?
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
If a passport needs to be renewed every 10 years, why would anyone think it's okay to travel with one that is more than 10 years old?
But 9 years and some days? It surely expires when it expires according to any reasonable interpretation.
Because you need to have a valid passport while you are in the country, and when you leave. It's not simply the date on which you enter that matters.
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
If a passport needs to be renewed every 10 years, why would anyone think it's okay to travel with one that is more than 10 years old?
Why would anyone think passports expire six months before they expire, which seems to be the de facto situation?
Presumably to avoid the situation where the passport expires after holder has entered the country. Which is a pain in the arse for all concerned.
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
Literally the first page of google, addressing this question
You do know that HMG and Google aren't the same don't you?
If you go to HMG’s site that gives passport advice, it will give the same passport advice as Google
Well I think it's the other way around. It's still not the case that many/most UK passport holders would have any expectation of their passports failing to be valid 6 months before the expiry date.
Have a word with yourself. It's been a thing fir as long as I can remember. Booking a trip online usually includes something about it on whatever travel website you use, in my experience.
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
If a passport needs to be renewed every 10 years, why would anyone think it's okay to travel with one that is more than 10 years old?
But 9 years and some days? It surely expires when it expires according to any reasonable interpretation.
Because you need to have a valid passport while you are in the country, and when you leave. It's not simply the date on which you enter that matters.
Regarding passport expiry dates, I travel a lot. I didn't renew mine until the last minute and it has been a massive pain. If you send off your passport it takes 10-12 weeks so for me that was not an option. I had to go for the 'premium 1 day option', costing about £200, and I've got to fly up to Belfast for the day to pick up the passport because it was the only slot available. It also took over a week to even be able to book the slot online, because of the current 'passport renewal' panic over the passport office strike, even though this isn't apparently actually causing any delays to the standard service. It is only possible to book an appointment in a 45 minute window each day on the gov.uk website and this window randomly changes day by day, you need to keep refreshing your computer every 15 minutes to find out when you can even make a booking.
What kind of moron thinks you’re fine travelling with a passport over ten years old, or with less than 6 months left? That’s nothing to do with Brexit, that’s just Being Stupid
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
Nonsense - a passport should do what it suggests until it expires.
Anyone with a rudimentary nervous system knows that you need to renew your passport before there is less than 6 months left of the 10 years. Multiple countries insist on this. At least six months validity
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
How precisely does one come to know this? So far as I recall there isn't a great big sticker on your passport when you get it saying such a thing. Maybe I do have an IQ of 13, but even such low power seems to be defeating your logic.
Literally the first page of google, addressing this question
You do know that HMG and Google aren't the same don't you?
If you go to HMG’s site that gives passport advice, it will give the same passport advice as Google
Well I think it's the other way around. It's still not the case that many/most UK passport holders would have any expectation of their passports failing to be valid 6 months before the expiry date.
Have a word with yourself. It's been a thing fir as long as I can remember. Booking a trip online usually includes something about it on whatever travel website you use, in my experience.
Judging by some of the reactions to my view of the awful caricature contained in this cartoon, (1) we need much more education in this country about c20th history, and (2) the situation is worse than even I'd feared.
It takes a lot to shock me. And I am well aware of the Guardian's and especially Rowson's form. But I still find it genuinely shocking that not a single person looked at this and said, no, we can't run this. To me that's the real issue.
It does not just strike me as horrendously misjudged but it’s not especially good either.
I’ve always thought of the guardian as a left wing daily Mail, happy to pander to its readers basic prejudices for sales and clicks.
Yes, I love having a go at the guardian, and that Abbott letter was a disgrace, but this cartoon feels marginal. Is it really playing on anti-Jewish tropes? Hmm. Maybe. It’s unpleasant in tone, but it is a cartoon
It’s also a rubbish, unfunny cartoon
Boris Johnson isn't Jewish to my knowledge. Richard Sharp presumably is, so drawing attention to his role in financial chicanery must be the anti-semitic trope here.
Regarding passport expiry dates, I travel a lot. I didn't renew mine until the last minute and it has been a massive pain. If you send off your passport it takes 10-12 weeks so for me that was not an option. I had to go for the 'premium 1 day option', costing about £200, and I've got to fly up to Belfast for the day to pick up the passport because it was the only slot available. It also took over a week to even be able to book the slot online, because of the current 'passport renewal' panic over the passport office strike, even though this isn't apparently actually causing any delays to the standard service. It is only possible to book an appointment in a 45 minute window each day on the gov.uk website and this window randomly changes day by day, you need to keep refreshing your computer every 15 minutes to find out when you can even make a booking.
The Guardian article states that renewals take ~12 days, not 12 weeks.
Judging by some of the reactions to my view of the awful caricature contained in this cartoon, (1) we need much more education in this country about c20th history, and (2) the situation is worse than even I'd feared.
It takes a lot to shock me. And I am well aware of the Guardian's and especially Rowson's form. But I still find it genuinely shocking that not a single person looked at this and said, no, we can't run this. To me that's the real issue.
It does not just strike me as horrendously misjudged but it’s not especially good either.
I’ve always thought of the guardian as a left wing daily Mail, happy to pander to its readers basic prejudices for sales and clicks.
Yes, I love having a go at the guardian, and that Abbott letter was a disgrace, but this cartoon feels marginal. Is it really playing on anti-Jewish tropes? Hmm. Maybe. It’s unpleasant in tone, but it is a cartoon
It’s also a rubbish, unfunny cartoon
I believe the choice of a squid is considered dodgy. From earlier this year:
Regarding passport expiry dates, I travel a lot. I didn't renew mine until the last minute and it has been a massive pain. If you send off your passport it takes 10-12 weeks so for me that was not an option. I had to go for the 'premium 1 day option', costing about £200, and I've got to fly up to Belfast for the day to pick up the passport because it was the only slot available. It also took over a week to even be able to book the slot online, because of the current 'passport renewal' panic over the passport office strike, even though this isn't apparently actually causing any delays to the standard service. It is only possible to book an appointment in a 45 minute window each day on the gov.uk website and this window randomly changes day by day, you need to keep refreshing your computer every 15 minutes to find out when you can even make a booking.
The Guardian article states that renewals take ~12 days, not 12 weeks.
Regarding passport expiry dates, I travel a lot. I didn't renew mine until the last minute and it has been a massive pain. If you send off your passport it takes 10-12 weeks so for me that was not an option. I had to go for the 'premium 1 day option', costing about £200, and I've got to fly up to Belfast for the day to pick up the passport because it was the only slot available. It also took over a week to even be able to book the slot online, because of the current 'passport renewal' panic over the passport office strike, even though this isn't apparently actually causing any delays to the standard service. It is only possible to book an appointment in a 45 minute window each day on the gov.uk website and this window randomly changes day by day, you need to keep refreshing your computer every 15 minutes to find out when you can even make a booking.
The Guardian article states that renewals take ~12 days, not 12 weeks.
Hmm, looks another rather dubious case somewhat over-simplified by the Guardian's ultra-nervousness on these kind issues, if I'm honest. Some real strokes of genius with him, and in fact I had always rather assumed he was at least partly Jewish himself, seeing interviews ; I wonder if that's right.
Regarding passport expiry dates, I travel a lot. I didn't renew mine until the last minute and it has been a massive pain. If you send off your passport it takes 10-12 weeks so for me that was not an option. I had to go for the 'premium 1 day option', costing about £200, and I've got to fly up to Belfast for the day to pick up the passport because it was the only slot available. It also took over a week to even be able to book the slot online, because of the current 'passport renewal' panic over the passport office strike, even though this isn't apparently actually causing any delays to the standard service. It is only possible to book an appointment in a 45 minute window each day on the gov.uk website and this window randomly changes day by day, you need to keep refreshing your computer every 15 minutes to find out when you can even make a booking.
I think that is becoming the new normal, to be honest. A year ago I had to take a whole day out driving my wife to Newport in South Wales and back because my wife left it until there were only 10 weeks left and the website and local post office advised that it might well not be done in time for the holiday. Thanks Home Office. 10 weeks would not be "last minute" for a bog basic renewal in anything other than a dysfunctional government department and its agency. The same department that has processed only about 1% of asylum claims.
FPT, private education seems like a waste of money. Typically, one is spending £20,000 a year, per head, out of after-tax income, to have some privileged left wing head teacher trying to indoctrinate one's children into far left politics.
Far better just to move to a place where the State schools are good.
I’ve come to think that myself. Our son is at a private school. It’s bloody expensive, and yes he’s getting good teaching and pastoral support but he’d have done fine in the state school he had a place for too, and would be better placed for university applications. I wouldn’t describe his teachers as remotely far left though (or privileged for that matter).
Once you get sucked into the private system it’s a massive guilt trip. Because you’re shelling out cash it has to be better? No. You can be far better off elsewhere and if you think of the opportunity cost it’s a very bad deal.
I went through a few months of guilt tripping myself about not sending my older shyer daughter to a private school. But in the end she went to a jolly good comp and is now at an outstanding 6th form and is thriving, in her own way, and looking at top notch universities so I think hey, maybe I saved £200,000, nice one
My younger daughter is ebullient and would probably thrive anywhere so it didn’t matter
The local comp delivered straight A*s , a love of Rugby, a musical instrument and friends for life. With money saved, we did all sorts of trips.
Job done.
Agreed
I also think it’s spiritually and morally better to go to a state school, if you can. You will understand your own country and your compatriots so much better
Public school kids are always faintly and embarrassingly clueless about fundamental aspects of Britain
What is this “Britain” you mention?
But seriously there’s a weird reverse snobbery about public school kids I find a bit odd. It’s usually along the lines of them being so isolated and in a bubble they have no idea about “real life”.
It shows a lack of knowledge that people at public schools have a wider exposure to people from different countries and cultures than anyone who isn’t in some cosmopolitan inner city state school. My housemates were literally from all around the world; Thai, Russian, Malaysian, HK, China, India, France, Germany, Switzerland, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Scotland.
That same group consisted of Catholic, CofE, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim and atheist.
Their backgrounds were wide ranging from children of overseas politicians, nobles, diplomats, sons of small business owners whose grandparents were helping with the fees and assisted places kids. And the British kids were from all parts of the country from all furthest points of the compass.
And funnily enough we also mixed socially with our peers in the state system out of school.
Your average state school kid will go through their time with a cohort from a pretty similar demographic because of catchment areas. A state school in a wealthy part of Cheshire might have as many wealthy kids but probably drawn from a pretty identikit background and a comp in inner city Southampton is going to generally have kids from similar backgrounds.
So no school system gives kids some total “real” insight into the makeup of the country and if you go to your state school in a very white middle class area then you can’t fling shit at public school kids re having their finger on the pulse of the nation as they will have had a narrower experience of people in their formative years.
I went to a state school. But half my friends are private school kids. The latter are genuinely and notably more clueless about normal daily life in the UK. It’s just a fact
On the other hand I have seen the big advantage you get from a really good private school - eg Westminster, Winchester, Eton - in terms of lifelong networks
Also, a small number of public schools - particularly places like Winchester and Westminster, I would say, are good at teaching at critical thinking. Two of the most intelligent people I've met were from those two schools, and not particuiarly socially networked. PBers will know that my views on Eton and a few other schools are less favourable.
Once Labour changes the rules on VAT and charitable status, the last of the non-ultra rich British-based kids now there will be forced to leave. The most famoust schools have a huge ready market and profile in Asia, which will step in instead, and fill the gap.
It's a myth that these give "life long" networks that, if it was ever true, expired a hundred years ago.
I'm only in touch with two people I used to go to school with, neither of which are particularly influential. All my useful professional contacts have come from ex-university friends or colleagues and peers I've worked with since graduation.
That's how it works these days. Not the old school tie.
It helps on the margin - it gives a point of contact. I’ve just reconnected - by chance - with someone who is in a position of influence. He’s been very happy to have dinner a couple of times based on the fact we were at prep school together… which he’d never have done without that link.
But once the door is open you have to build the relationship
Regarding passport expiry dates, I travel a lot. I didn't renew mine until the last minute and it has been a massive pain. If you send off your passport it takes 10-12 weeks so for me that was not an option. I had to go for the 'premium 1 day option', costing about £200, and I've got to fly up to Belfast for the day to pick up the passport because it was the only slot available. It also took over a week to even be able to book the slot online, because of the current 'passport renewal' panic over the passport office strike, even though this isn't apparently actually causing any delays to the standard service. It is only possible to book an appointment in a 45 minute window each day on the gov.uk website and this window randomly changes day by day, you need to keep refreshing your computer every 15 minutes to find out when you can even make a booking.
I think that is becoming the new normal, to be honest. A year ago I had to take a whole day out driving my wife to Newport in South Wales and back because my wife left it until there were only 10 weeks left and the website and local post office advised that it might well not be done in time for the holiday. Thanks Home Office. 10 weeks would not be "last minute" for a bog basic renewal in anything other than a dysfunctional government department and its agency. The same department that has processed only about 1% of asylum claims.
Yeah I guess they are basically making an extra £100 from every application thanks to this system. Still if you need to travel somewhere you need the certainty so you are going to pay for the service.
Absolutely stunningly beautiful day in London, perfect running weather. Just been out for a quick 5K
Each to his or her own, I suppose.
A stunningly beautiful day isn't for running - it's for enjoying a pleasant lunch al fresco in Wanstead where once again the Evangelical Christians and the Labour Party were within 50 yards of each other which is of course the limit of the restraining order placed on religion by politics (or the other way round, I forget).
Absolutely stunningly beautiful day in London, perfect running weather. Just been out for a quick 5K
Each to his or her own, I suppose.
A stunningly beautiful day isn't for running - it's for enjoying a pleasant lunch al fresco in Wanstead where once again the Evangelical Christians and the Labour Party were within 50 yards of each other which is of course the limit of the restraining order placed on religion by politics (or the other way round, I forget).
I know London precisely by running so much of it Your day sounds equally delightful
I saw Stella Creasy's comments in the Times about an online troll trying to get her children put into care for her 'anti-men' views.
While it is deplorable someone should do this, I did laugh at her comment that it was horrendous someone would suggest her children should be taken away of her views. I don't think she had expressed any horror when (I think) Doncaster Social Services wanted to take away a child because the parents voted for UKIP.
I did also laugh at, because the Police said there wasn't a criminal offence, she now wants to introduce a new criminal offence dealing specifically with what happened to her.
As usual with Stella Creasy, it's usually all about Stella Creasy...
I don't know (and doubt if you know) whether SC expressed a view about the Doncaster case, but I do think that there should be reasonable limits to the extent to which public figures can be harassed by random strangers alleging made-up offences. A triage approach enabling the police to dismiss obviously unreasonable complaints immediately would be helpful.
When I was an MP, a far-right group made a nonsense allegation against me. I was told unofficially by the police that they could see it was rubbish and not to worry, they'd deal with it eventually with minimal priority. It took a year or so before they formally notified me that the complaint had been dismissed. That was a year of minor "what if..." worry that I'd have been glad to be spared..
This sort of thing discourages quite blameless people from going into politics, since every constituency may have a nutter willing to try on anything that might bother you and your family. Clearly serious allegations should be pursued, but random ones raised without evidence should be treated as wasting police time.
Sorry to hear that Nick and you are right making malicious false allegations merely for political point scoring is wrong.
My slight counterpoint to this was that you were a MP and therefore were able to call upon a level of contact others may not have. Ordinary people also get subjected to this sort of thing and don't have recourse to a page in The Times. SC has never shown any interest - as far as I know - in protecting people from this sort of action. The first time it seems to have sprung into her head is when she has been subjected to it.
Yes, I agree that anyone being subject to frivolous allegations is suffering unfairly, and there should be a fast-track approach to dismissing them. But it's probably true that figures in the public eye are more subject to it than most. We have an adversarial culture, so at any moment there will be perhaps 10,000 constituents who actively hope that you'll fail. Most won't, of course, wish you personal harm, but if ONE of them is a nutter, they can make something up and give you and your family a bad time. (That might be why most people here post under pseudonyms.)
It's a hazard of public life, which already has enough hazards deterring good people.
It’s slightly different but I am deeply uncomfortable with how frequently politicians (mainly MPs) refer or call for opponents to be referred to the police often on spurious grounds (I’m mainly thinking of twitter posting).
Clearly if they have committed an offence that should be looked at like anyone else, but publicly calling for your opponents to be investigated for your own political benefit undermines the system
Absolutely stunningly beautiful day in London, perfect running weather. Just been out for a quick 5K
Each to his or her own, I suppose.
A stunningly beautiful day isn't for running - it's for enjoying a pleasant lunch al fresco in Wanstead where once again the Evangelical Christians and the Labour Party were within 50 yards of each other which is of course the limit of the restraining order placed on religion by politics (or the other way round, I forget).
I know London precisely by running so much of it Your day sounds equally delightful
Are you sure, given your importance, that you want to post here?
Absolutely stunningly beautiful day in London, perfect running weather. Just been out for a quick 5K
Each to his or her own, I suppose.
A stunningly beautiful day isn't for running - it's for enjoying a pleasant lunch al fresco in Wanstead where once again the Evangelical Christians and the Labour Party were within 50 yards of each other which is of course the limit of the restraining order placed on religion by politics (or the other way round, I forget).
I know London precisely by running so much of it Your day sounds equally delightful
Are you sure, given your importance that you want to post here?
I do enjoy reading and posting here, of course. But the real world has its own things that I enjoy too.
Comments
It is very childish, and stupid.
Each one donates £6,500 to the public purse by not taking up a state school space, and makes personal sacrifices to facilitate that donation.
In other words, you are left-wing activist posing as one in the hope it influences others.
It won't. You're not very convincing.
I'm only in touch with two people I used to go to school with, neither of which are particularly influential. All my useful professional contacts have come from ex-university friends or colleagues and peers I've worked with since graduation.
That's how it works these days. Not the old school tie.
I know a dozen people that did, and their networks are remarkably advantageous. I’m talking about the really elite public schools here
Friends who went to middling or minor private schools barely have old school networks at all. University was more important for them (as it was for me)
From what I’ve seen, Eton really helps if you want to go into politics, law, business, journalism
Westminster really helps if you want to go into the media, arts, drama, TV
Winchester is good for business, academe maybe
That’s my purely subjective experience from looking at friends over decades
It's a hazard of public life, which already has enough hazards deterring good people.
I know how tightly they operate and the sacrifices my parents made to send me there - we didn't go abroad for the first 10 years of my life. At all.
Probably why I feel so passionately about it.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/apr/29/briton-valid-passport-barred-from-flight-brexit-rules-eu
“Despite previous warnings in Guardian Money and some other publicity, UK travellers trying to enter the Schengen zone are being turned away on a daily basis by airline staff at boarding gates – in most cases because their UK passport was issued more than 10 years ago.”
Lol. Cretins
“A man now has to call the police every time he wants to have sex after he was hit with a court order.”
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/man-call-police-every-time-26770423
Difficult to form a judgement without knowing the background and how things look from the perspective of the police. Still, giving the police/courts these kind of powers should make us all feel uncomfortable.
I’d be interested in @Cyclefree or @DavidL ‘s opinion, if they’re lurking ??
I had to bite my tongue.
Queen.
While Elizabeth II was respected by most, her strongest supporters were Tories and Leavers.
From my experience however
Charles III, while not disliked by most except ardent Republicans, has his most staunch supporters amongst One Nation Tories and Liberal Democrats and even the Mirror likes his reforms. Right wing Leavers think he is too woke
If you don’t know this you have an IQ of 13 and it’s best you stay home instead of embarrassing the whole country
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3WzCZbprJo
https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1652282999495376897?s=20
It takes a lot to shock me. And I am well aware of the Guardian's and especially Rowson's form. But I still find it genuinely shocking that not a single person looked at this and said, no, we can't run this. To me that's the real issue.
https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/1652270079847944192?s=20
Whilst I think it’s undeniable he has mellowed with age, his positives have often been overlooked. He comes across as a well meaning, engaged character if faintly dull. Camilla comes across as a pleasant country grandma type rather than an evil seductress. Basically they are not what they have been painted as for many years, so to borrow a phrase it was always likely they would, ahem, surprise on the upside…
DeSantis Tells Israelis a Hurricane Mostly Spared Florida Thanks to ‘Prayer I Put in the Western Wall’
I've been arguing for years that we need to import terms from places other than the US to enable us to handle shades of gray (blue, red, whatevs). "National Conservatism" in the European sense has been around for decades, esp in Eastern Europe. It partly fills the gap between Christian Democracy and Fascism - think Kinder, Küche, Kirche with added homophobia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_conservatism
But suddenly some American japanapes comes along, steals the name and it's the new hotness. Andrew Marr seems genuinely surprised. Crikey dude, you should know stuff like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w05Roqj4HRM
Even among the very elite ones, Winchester, Westminster and St Paul's were always the more liberal-intellectual counterparts of Eton, Harrow, Marlborough et al.
My network from university is of little importance now and school is insignificant (and always has been). It is useful to know some accountants, lawyers, doctors etc, but not a massive deal.
I suspect that these notions about 'old school networks' have now simply been changed beyond all recognition.
To thunderous applause from all sides.
When they investigate *all* allegations, people start saying “not that one”.
Perhaps there is a message in that.
Like many people, I never went on holiday abroad as a child with my family, and my first experience of foreign shores was Calais harbour on a beer-and-fags run with my mates at the age of 19. It would never have occurred to my parents to send me to private school - my dad left school at 15 with no qualifications and considered education to be a waste of time - and it never occurred to me to send my son to private school either.
It does not just strike me as horrendously misjudged but it’s not especially good either.
I’ve always thought of the guardian as a left wing daily Mail, happy to pander to its readers basic prejudices for sales and clicks.
Passport issued 22/7/14
Expiry date 22/3/25
When do I renew it. December 2023 or July 2024
By Adolf Fucking Hitler
It’s also a rubbish, unfunny cartoon
But then again, you can't have a policy where allegations of abuse against MP's are not investigated. If they are vexatious they should just be immediately dismissed as such, which seems to be what happened here.
The other thing, is that if you want to start prosecuting people for 'misogyny', then presumably you would also need to create another equivalent offence of 'misandry', which may have some interesting consequences.
https://www.theguardian.com/info/2023/apr/29/removed-article
Edit: In fact, do it now while you are thinking about it.
So get it done as early as possible
https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
https://www.postoffice.co.uk/identity/soon-to-expire-passport#:~:text=Canada-,Your passport should be valid for the duration of your,to pass through immigration control.
https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/opinion-why-has-the-economist-used-an-ancient-anti-jewish-image-to-illustrate-a-modern-business-story/
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/controversial-cartoonist-steve-bell-to-leave-the-guardian-1.501690
Its "up to 10 weeks" for the standard service.
The gold, the squid, Sharp as puppetmaster, the pig, the blood.
One or two might be accidental, but five?
https://www.theguardian.com/info/2023/apr/29/removed-article#Echobox=1682710535
But once the door is open you have to build the relationship
A stunningly beautiful day isn't for running - it's for enjoying a pleasant lunch al fresco in Wanstead where once again the Evangelical Christians and the Labour Party were within 50 yards of each other which is of course the limit of the restraining order placed on religion by politics (or the other way round, I forget).
Clearly if they have committed an offence that should be looked at like anyone else, but publicly calling for your opponents to be investigated for your own political benefit undermines the system
Get Rishi in front of the public, he'll be charismatic and normal somebody here said
https://twitter.com/StephenCVGraham/status/1652251852480606209?s=20
Though if you read this, page 158, Rowson gives his reasoning, which seems more thoughtful than the cartoons.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/03064220802712274
I flagged up that cartoon at 7.45 am.
All that was missing was Richard Sharp with a hooked nose holding a copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Tbh I had no idea “octopus” was an antisemitc trope
I’m not surprised. The only papers Harry isn’t suing are the telegraph, the FT and the Guardian.
The pub is calling me, good day to you.