What's the impact on global markets of a Trump coup?
In the absence of the rule of law it is only your physical ability and determination to inflict violence on others that secures your ownership of assets.
If Trump were to take power in 2025, thanks to a GOP House and Supreme Court, despite losing the election, then the rule of law in the US would be worthless, and the market value of US assets would respond consequently. In the short term, the prodigious capital outflows from the US, looking for a safe haven where the rule of law still applied, might see values in other markets rise, but the knock-on consequences for the global economy would be brutal.
I don't think so. Capitalists do like the rule of law, except where it interferes in their actions and profiteering.
A Trump kleptocracy will be a Klondike for carpet baggers and their henchmen wanting to rip off the poor and despoil the environment.
There is no shortage of evidence across the world of this.
Most capitalists would prefer the rule of law to the rule of Trump.
A kleptocracy requires one to have the friendship of Trump. Anyone who has crossed Trump in the past, or fails to show sufficient deference in the future, will be frozen out.
Or, in future, suffer an unfortunate mishap involving eighth floor windows.
Never seen anyone as cucked as Pence. If Pence walked in on Trump & Mrs Pence, Mike Pence would apologise, head downstairs and brew coffee for them both.
There was that Harry Whittington guy who Dick Cheney shot in the face with a shotgun in a hunting accident. He issued this statement from hospital.
I know this might seem an unpopular opinion but doctors are really coming out with some shite on twitter comparing pay to rates small businesses charge.
Someone on Twitter yesterday suggested that, perhaps there might be more support for the junior doctors, if their spokespeople didn’t sound like Arthur Scargill with a stethoscope!
They are merely representing their electors. There was a 78% turnout and 98% support for strike in the BMA ballot.
Depicting the leaders as radicals unrepresentative of the real workers is fairly par for the course for government propaganda, but particularly untrue in this dispute.
Come on Foxy you know being paid £14 or whatever per hour isn't nearly the same as a business charging £14/hr for it's services...
I wonder if a small part of the reason for the drop is the sight of Trump being restrained, by the mores and formality of the court if not literally. The cop letting the door shut in his face, his quietly yessing and noing, uncertainty flickering across his big orange face; in his own parlance he looked like a PUSSY. Once the blustering, boorish magic is gone it aint coming back.
He deserves a Charles I moment. He's obviously never cared about rules and is rich enough and brazen enough to get away with it. Itd be nice if he experienced even a moments doubt as a result of all this.
I know this might seem an unpopular opinion but doctors are really coming out with some shite on twitter comparing pay to rates small businesses charge.
Someone on Twitter yesterday suggested that, perhaps there might be more support for the junior doctors, if their spokespeople didn’t sound like Arthur Scargill with a stethoscope!
They've got plenty of support at the moment, meanwhile my brother who runs his own business (And I'm sure charges more than £20/hr as does everyone with a small business) would love their pension; career progression; lack of overheads, guaranteed hours, guaranteed work & time and a half/double overtime.
My not-particularly-worldly-but-blessed/cursed-with-a-ferocious-sense-of-empathy 11 year old daughter was horrified that doctors are striking. "What if people get ill? I can understand why teachers would strike but doctors are already really rich." She is not possessed of a great deal of nuance but I suspect her view is not too far from typical.
I know this might seem an unpopular opinion but doctors are really coming out with some shite on twitter comparing pay to rates small businesses charge.
Someone on Twitter yesterday suggested that, perhaps there might be more support for the junior doctors, if their spokespeople didn’t sound like Arthur Scargill with a stethoscope!
They've got plenty of support at the moment, meanwhile my brother who runs his own business (And I'm sure charges more than £20/hr as does everyone with a small business) would love their pension; career progression; lack of overheads, guaranteed hours, guaranteed work & time and a half/double overtime.
Suggest he trains to be a Dr then as there is a massive shortage
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
Beyond the violence and deaths caused by the Capitol riot, the thing that really matters about what happened is how the Republican party has reacted to it and to Trump's claims that the election was stolen.
Very fair - and probably about as close to how the Labour leadership is viewing things as you'll get. For me, the key is the Midlands. Results there will tell us best how much more work Labour needs to do.
I think Labour would be disappointed if they could not take a 10% lead over the Conservative, in NEV share.
Labour achieved leads of 12% to 22%, between 1993 and 1997. As the article said, Labour tend to underperform their poll ratings in local elections, the Conservatives tend to match, or slightly exceed them.
Never seen anyone as cucked as Pence. If Pence walked in on Trump & Mrs Pence, Mike Pence would apologise, head downstairs and brew coffee for them both.
Yes, have some bloody pride, man! Sometimes he hints at having been pushed too far, then he just rolls over again.
I wonder if a small part of the reason for the drop is the sight of Trump being restrained, by the mores and formality of the court if not literally. The cop letting the door shut in his face, his quietly yessing and noing, uncertainty flickering across his big orange face; in his own parlance he looked like a PUSSY. Once the blustering, boorish magic is gone it aint coming back.
He deserves a Charles I moment. He's obviously never cared about rules and is rich enough and brazen enough to get away with it. Itd be nice if he experienced even a moments doubt as a result of all this.
Will be interesting to find out how much Liz Truss will be paid for this speech. More or less than Theresa May?
And if so who on earth is paying her.
It does seem to be the American way, that companies and political orgs have ridiculous budgets for paying speakers, and a number of British former ministers take advantage every year.
The highest earning MP last year was Theresa May, who got paid £1.5m at £80k an hour. Nope, me neither.
I work that out at 18.75 hours work. In a whole year. Perhaps she does most things pro-bono then?
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
On parish councils, they are an ok and relatively harmless body I've found and often the repository of the most vicious, vituperative, treacherous personal politics around. But once you've sorted out the speeding signs and the church windows at Easter what else is there to do so naturally they go a bit Lord of the Flies.
Almost all are happily dawdling along. But you get some obsessive, aggravating personalities and the minuscule nature of it can turn people mad.
How do we stop this? A very significant proportion of Trump voters last time genuinely believe he won! They won't allow the election and the country to be stolen a second time, will they?
He will claim victory very early on the night without any regard to the actual result. The coup will come if the result is close and one or more swing states with sympathetic judiciaries (Wisconsin?) can overturn the result in their state and send alternate electors.
As much as I would love to see it for entertainment value there isn't a route through armed insurrection to make him POTUS as the Federal government has AH-1Zs and the MAGA Milisha have bad knees and unmanaged diabetes.
Three phases to the Patriot uprising:
1 Bar traitors from voting. That is firstly by removing polling stations to make for long queues and a long journey to vote for democrats - already happened last time surely will just scale up this time. And have armed guards to drive away voters - again that happened last time in a few places. Federal won't be able to get involved quickly enough. State will be GOP run and legal immediate appeals to remove the militias will mysteriously not be heard until too late in the day to make a difference
2. Barricade the state house to ensure the representatives inside do the right thing. Again this has already happened - just do a lot of it next time. Regardless of what votes may have been cast / counted, ensure that shitkicker states send Trump delegates. With an armed escort to the electoral college
3. Suggest to RINO members of the US Congress that now is the time for every good man to come to the aid of the party. No wussing this time. Again with a large armed militia outside. The Federal Government can issue orders to the armed forces to crush the militia. But if Congress is saying A and the White House is saying B do you want to get involved in a political row? There's a coup on, which side is the coup?
Driver accused me of paranoia. The GOP *have already done all of these things*.
The point about the markets being the last bulwark of US democracy is actually very well made. If there is some kind of Trump-led coup, capital flight will be immediate and it will be on a scale never seen before in human history. Capitalism requires an independent court system. You cannot have an independent court system without the rule of law. Buy shares in Canada, Australia, Japan and Western Europe.
This parallels Liz Truss's mistake. Her downfall was caused by market reaction not to her energy subsidies or unfunded tax cuts per se but because she had conspicuously sidelined HMT and OBR to push them through.
It was close. Too many GOP states had officials who refused to yield to the pressure. Said officials now replaced by Trumpers. And the actual insurrection itself? Remember the footage of the handful of guards pointing guns at the chamber door? Remember how Pence managed to slip away through luck?
Lets assume that they had captured Pence. Pelosi. A few congressmen. With Georgia and a few other key states actually sending competing slates of electors. Trump *could* have remained President.
And they have learned the lessons of last time. Already replacing officials. Already using supermajorities to expel dissident members and pass enabling laws...
Never seen anyone as cucked as Pence. If Pence walked in on Trump & Mrs Pence, Mike Pence would apologise, head downstairs and brew coffee for them both.
I bet he's bottling up all the anger up, it'll all come flooding out the day after the Iowa Caucuses.
Too late by then after years of licking Trumps boots even out of office.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
Plus there is a world of difference between tourist protestors (like the idiot with the horns) and the actual armed militia guys who went in with weekend soldier gear and proper guns.
How do we stop this? A very significant proportion of Trump voters last time genuinely believe he won! They won't allow the election and the country to be stolen a second time, will they?
He will claim victory very early on the night without any regard to the actual result. The coup will come if the result is close and one or more swing states with sympathetic judiciaries (Wisconsin?) can overturn the result in their state and send alternate electors.
As much as I would love to see it for entertainment value there isn't a route through armed insurrection to make him POTUS as the Federal government has AH-1Zs and the MAGA Milisha have bad knees and unmanaged diabetes.
Three phases to the Patriot uprising:
1 Bar traitors from voting. That is firstly by removing polling stations to make for long queues and a long journey to vote for democrats - already happened last time surely will just scale up this time. And have armed guards to drive away voters - again that happened last time in a few places. Federal won't be able to get involved quickly enough. State will be GOP run and legal immediate appeals to remove the militias will mysteriously not be heard until too late in the day to make a difference
2. Barricade the state house to ensure the representatives inside do the right thing. Again this has already happened - just do a lot of it next time. Regardless of what votes may have been cast / counted, ensure that shitkicker states send Trump delegates. With an armed escort to the electoral college
3. Suggest to RINO members of the US Congress that now is the time for every good man to come to the aid of the party. No wussing this time. Again with a large armed militia outside. The Federal Government can issue orders to the armed forces to crush the militia. But if Congress is saying A and the White House is saying B do you want to get involved in a political row? There's a coup on, which side is the coup?
Driver accused me of paranoia. The GOP *have already done all of these things*.
On point 1, you're assuming that the Dems and the tech billionaires buying turnout won't more than make up for that - it did in 2020.
Point 2 isn't worthy of responding to due to choice of language.
And point 3, you might remember that last time the "insurrection" was nothing more than an impotent eruption of angst, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that it would be any more effective next time when Trump would have lost by more.
It might be more effective. People in key positions last time held firm. Many people in thise positions are now on record that the last election was stolen. Will they hold firm? The worst like Lake lost but plenty won.
These concerns are dismissed too easily on the basis it failed last time. They still tried, and will again.
It might not even be necessary as he could won legitimately, horrifying as that might be.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
What's the impact on global markets of a Trump coup?
In the absence of the rule of law it is only your physical ability and determination to inflict violence on others that secures your ownership of assets.
If Trump were to take power in 2025, thanks to a GOP House and Supreme Court, despite losing the election, then the rule of law in the US would be worthless, and the market value of US assets would respond consequently. In the short term, the prodigious capital outflows from the US, looking for a safe haven where the rule of law still applied, might see values in other markets rise, but the knock-on consequences for the global economy would be brutal.
I know I have satirised this as the Rise of Gilead. But you look at what the GOP are actually enacting in the states they control - especially when they have a super-majority - and the parallels to the fiction are clear.
In fiction Gilead was an overly-religious theocracy. Under the surface the abuse of scripture was added as a means of control, with none of the Commanders who created it actually believing in it. Is that not evangelical "Christianity" in America, where their Bible is all the harsh bits of both testaments that condemn gays and women and none of that woke Jesus love thy neighbour stuff?
Trump cannot win the general election fairly. Trump cannot cheat and try to rig the election. So it will need to be a coup. Actually have some swing states on board with submitting the "correct" result (none of the Georgia fiasco this time) and back it up with a Second Amendment Patriots Militia. Physically stop the traitors voting knowing the state won't act until it is too late.
My fascination with the Gilead world isn't so much inside Gilead as outside. The rump US government operating from Alaska and Canada. Relations with the rest of the world who have utterly condemned it as an illegal state until they realise there is trade money to be won. Etc.
How do we stop this? A very significant proportion of Trump voters last time genuinely believe he won! They won't allow the election and the country to be stolen a second time, will they?
I kind of lost interest in the Gilead stuff on the show when it was shown they were just hypocrites on top of being crazy and awful. I found it more compelling if they actually believed the crazy.
How do we stop this? A very significant proportion of Trump voters last time genuinely believe he won! They won't allow the election and the country to be stolen a second time, will they?
He will claim victory very early on the night without any regard to the actual result. The coup will come if the result is close and one or more swing states with sympathetic judiciaries (Wisconsin?) can overturn the result in their state and send alternate electors.
As much as I would love to see it for entertainment value there isn't a route through armed insurrection to make him POTUS as the Federal government has AH-1Zs and the MAGA Milisha have bad knees and unmanaged diabetes.
Three phases to the Patriot uprising:
1 Bar traitors from voting. That is firstly by removing polling stations to make for long queues and a long journey to vote for democrats - already happened last time surely will just scale up this time. And have armed guards to drive away voters - again that happened last time in a few places. Federal won't be able to get involved quickly enough. State will be GOP run and legal immediate appeals to remove the militias will mysteriously not be heard until too late in the day to make a difference
2. Barricade the state house to ensure the representatives inside do the right thing. Again this has already happened - just do a lot of it next time. Regardless of what votes may have been cast / counted, ensure that shitkicker states send Trump delegates. With an armed escort to the electoral college
3. Suggest to RINO members of the US Congress that now is the time for every good man to come to the aid of the party. No wussing this time. Again with a large armed militia outside. The Federal Government can issue orders to the armed forces to crush the militia. But if Congress is saying A and the White House is saying B do you want to get involved in a political row? There's a coup on, which side is the coup?
Driver accused me of paranoia. The GOP *have already done all of these things*.
On point 1, you're assuming that the Dems and the tech billionaires buying turnout won't more than make up for that - it did in 2020.
Point 2 isn't worthy of responding to due to choice of language.
And point 3, you might remember that last time the "insurrection" was nothing more than an impotent eruption of angst, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that it would be any more effective next time when Trump would have lost by more.
It might be more effective. People in key positions last time held firm. Many people in thise positions are now on record that the last election was stolen. Will they hold firm? The worst like Lake lost but plenty won.
These concerns are dismissed too easily on the basis it failed last time. They still tried, and will again.
It might not even be necessary as he could won legitimately, horrifying as that might be.
If concerns over what he will do if he loses are justified, then him winning should less horrifying - because after 2028 he becomes a total non-factor.
How do we stop this? A very significant proportion of Trump voters last time genuinely believe he won! They won't allow the election and the country to be stolen a second time, will they?
He will claim victory very early on the night without any regard to the actual result. The coup will come if the result is close and one or more swing states with sympathetic judiciaries (Wisconsin?) can overturn the result in their state and send alternate electors.
As much as I would love to see it for entertainment value there isn't a route through armed insurrection to make him POTUS as the Federal government has AH-1Zs and the MAGA Milisha have bad knees and unmanaged diabetes.
Three phases to the Patriot uprising:
1 Bar traitors from voting. That is firstly by removing polling stations to make for long queues and a long journey to vote for democrats - already happened last time surely will just scale up this time. And have armed guards to drive away voters - again that happened last time in a few places. Federal won't be able to get involved quickly enough. State will be GOP run and legal immediate appeals to remove the militias will mysteriously not be heard until too late in the day to make a difference
2. Barricade the state house to ensure the representatives inside do the right thing. Again this has already happened - just do a lot of it next time. Regardless of what votes may have been cast / counted, ensure that shitkicker states send Trump delegates. With an armed escort to the electoral college
3. Suggest to RINO members of the US Congress that now is the time for every good man to come to the aid of the party. No wussing this time. Again with a large armed militia outside. The Federal Government can issue orders to the armed forces to crush the militia. But if Congress is saying A and the White House is saying B do you want to get involved in a political row? There's a coup on, which side is the coup?
Driver accused me of paranoia. The GOP *have already done all of these things*.
On point 1, you're assuming that the Dems and the tech billionaires buying turnout won't more than make up for that - it did in 2020.
Point 2 isn't worthy of responding to due to choice of language.
And point 3, you might remember that last time the "insurrection" was nothing more than an impotent eruption of angst, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that it would be any more effective next time when Trump would have lost by more.
It might be more effective. People in key positions last time held firm. Many people in thise positions are now on record that the last election was stolen. Will they hold firm? The worst like Lake lost but plenty won.
These concerns are dismissed too easily on the basis it failed last time. They still tried, and will again.
It might not even be necessary as he could won legitimately, horrifying as that might be.
If concerns over what he will do if he loses are justified, then him winning should less horrifying - because after 2028 he becomes a total non-factor.
No, thats utterly ridiculous, because a President can do a lot of damage in office.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
They'd need to suborn a considerable proportion of the leaders of the security forces. No coup can succeed without military backing.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
Because I was a little concerned I checked and he is standing for District Council, so I'm guessing (but don't know) that he might just be keeping his head down.
If you’re looking in, @HYUFD, best wishes for the May election. Any other PBers standing in May? If so, best wishes for you as well!
I'm defending my seat on the Parish Council on my usual platform of Eco-Anarchism. Despite my highly disruptive insurgency I will almost certainly get re-elected because a) the daft old tories round here will vote for anybody who styles themselves Cdr ****, RN (Retd) and b) the charisma of Mrs DA who is my greatest political asset.
Have a charming spouse is my advice to anybody wanting to get anywhere in local politics. It makes a huge difference as they can reach a different part of the electorate.
Thanks, Fairlired! I'm standing for re-election for Waverley Borough Council (Binscombe and Charterhouse - two previously separate wards now merged into one big one), as leader of the small Labour group and executive member for housing strategy (it's a Lib/Lab/Green/Residents coalition). It's a straight fight between slates - three Tories trying to regain former seats vs one each of Lab, LibDem and Green. Binscombe is a residential suburb, with lots of semis; Charterhouse is best-known for the public school, and has some hardcore Tory retiree areas but also a high proportion of graduates who tend to be left of centre (my Town Council Labour running-mate is a distinguished professor, https://misr.jpl.nasa.gov/about-us/science-team/jan-peter-muller/).
Yes I would like to add my good luck to all PBers standing regardless of your affiliation.
Absolutely. For all the cynicism on show here, the functions of government at all levels rely on people willing to volunteer themselves for the numerous offices of state.
Good luck to anyone standing for election next month. I may not agree with them all politically, but they generally go into politics with good intention, and we need more people willing to put their name forward.
What's the impact on global markets of a Trump coup?
In the absence of the rule of law it is only your physical ability and determination to inflict violence on others that secures your ownership of assets.
If Trump were to take power in 2025, thanks to a GOP House and Supreme Court, despite losing the election, then the rule of law in the US would be worthless, and the market value of US assets would respond consequently. In the short term, the prodigious capital outflows from the US, looking for a safe haven where the rule of law still applied, might see values in other markets rise, but the knock-on consequences for the global economy would be brutal.
I know I have satirised this as the Rise of Gilead. But you look at what the GOP are actually enacting in the states they control - especially when they have a super-majority - and the parallels to the fiction are clear.
In fiction Gilead was an overly-religious theocracy. Under the surface the abuse of scripture was added as a means of control, with none of the Commanders who created it actually believing in it. Is that not evangelical "Christianity" in America, where their Bible is all the harsh bits of both testaments that condemn gays and women and none of that woke Jesus love thy neighbour stuff?
Trump cannot win the general election fairly. Trump cannot cheat and try to rig the election. So it will need to be a coup. Actually have some swing states on board with submitting the "correct" result (none of the Georgia fiasco this time) and back it up with a Second Amendment Patriots Militia. Physically stop the traitors voting knowing the state won't act until it is too late.
My fascination with the Gilead world isn't so much inside Gilead as outside. The rump US government operating from Alaska and Canada. Relations with the rest of the world who have utterly condemned it as an illegal state until they realise there is trade money to be won. Etc.
How do we stop this? A very significant proportion of Trump voters last time genuinely believe he won! They won't allow the election and the country to be stolen a second time, will they?
I kind of lost interest in the Gilead stuff on the show when it was shown they were just hypocrites on top of being crazy and awful. I found it more compelling if they actually believed the crazy.
The Republicans could, in the past, elect batshit State legislators, who elected batshit laws, safe in the knowledge that the Courts would strike them down. So, they could tell one section of their base, that left wing judges were blocking the will of the People, while reassuring the Country Club types that batshit laws were just for show.
Now, that safeguard is gone.
In the end, it will probably force their legislators to grow up. Most voters don't really want people like Roy Moore and MTG in charge.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
What's the impact on global markets of a Trump coup?
In the absence of the rule of law it is only your physical ability and determination to inflict violence on others that secures your ownership of assets.
If Trump were to take power in 2025, thanks to a GOP House and Supreme Court, despite losing the election, then the rule of law in the US would be worthless, and the market value of US assets would respond consequently. In the short term, the prodigious capital outflows from the US, looking for a safe haven where the rule of law still applied, might see values in other markets rise, but the knock-on consequences for the global economy would be brutal.
I know I have satirised this as the Rise of Gilead. But you look at what the GOP are actually enacting in the states they control - especially when they have a super-majority - and the parallels to the fiction are clear.
In fiction Gilead was an overly-religious theocracy. Under the surface the abuse of scripture was added as a means of control, with none of the Commanders who created it actually believing in it. Is that not evangelical "Christianity" in America, where their Bible is all the harsh bits of both testaments that condemn gays and women and none of that woke Jesus love thy neighbour stuff?
Trump cannot win the general election fairly. Trump cannot cheat and try to rig the election. So it will need to be a coup. Actually have some swing states on board with submitting the "correct" result (none of the Georgia fiasco this time) and back it up with a Second Amendment Patriots Militia. Physically stop the traitors voting knowing the state won't act until it is too late.
My fascination with the Gilead world isn't so much inside Gilead as outside. The rump US government operating from Alaska and Canada. Relations with the rest of the world who have utterly condemned it as an illegal state until they realise there is trade money to be won. Etc.
How do we stop this? A very significant proportion of Trump voters last time genuinely believe he won! They won't allow the election and the country to be stolen a second time, will they?
I kind of lost interest in the Gilead stuff on the show when it was shown they were just hypocrites on top of being crazy and awful. I found it more compelling if they actually believed the crazy.
The Republicans could, in the past, elect batshit State legislators, who elected batshit laws, safe in the knowledge that the Courts would strike them down. So, they could tell one section of their base, that left wing judges were blocking the will of the People, while reassuring the Country Club types that batshit laws were just for show.
Now, that safeguard is gone.
In the end, it will probably force their legislators to grow up. Most voters don't really want people like Roy Moore and MTG in charge.
I mean, that would be nice, but I don’t see any sign of it so far. Republican legislators are pumping out ever more batshit crazy legislation.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
It was an attempted coup d'etat, just a very poorly planned and executed one.
A proper coup d'etat is like the one that overthrew Lavrenty Beria. After a few minutes of being denounced as a US agent by Krushchev, it must have dawned on him that all the pieces had already been played, and he was now a dead man walking.
Similarly, the coup that overthrew Sejanus. Within minutes, he realised that his support base had collapsed. Macro had already suborned the senior officers of the Praetorian Guard, and the Senate could safely strike at him.
In such coups, the bloodletting (often extensive) is done after the event.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Very fair - and probably about as close to how the Labour leadership is viewing things as you'll get. For me, the key is the Midlands. Results there will tell us best how much more work Labour needs to do.
This is quite interesting.
"I’m expecting somewhat varied results region by region, as anecdotal feedback from colleagues around the country is that not all regions are experiencing patterns that match the national opinion polls."
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he sent his willing helpers to the Capitol. But by rights no group of people should ever be able to tear down some metal barriers and force their way into the seat of government. Into a football match maybe, but not into the Capitol. Once there they were as bemused as anyone although five people did die that day and many were in fear of their lives.
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
Of course. That it was an utterly incompetent attempt at a coup, which failed miserably, doesn't mean it wasn't an attempt.
And with just a little more luck they might still have hung Pence, or Pelosi.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
That's certainly how it looked to me, and insofar as I worry about it happening again it's because of the risk of the hysteria surrounding it triggering a Crocodile Dundee reaction.
But even if it does, I can't see it getting anywhere. There wouldn't even be majority suppoort for it amongst Trump voters.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he sent his willing helpers to the Capitol. But by rights no group of people should ever be able to tear down some metal barriers and force their way into the seat of government. Into a football match maybe, but not into the Capitol. Once there they were as bemused as anyone although five people did die that day and many were in fear of their lives.
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
There was a lot going on that day, of which we still don’t know much of it.
There’s been some releases of video in the past few weeks, that suggest the ‘invaders’ were being almost given a guided tour by Capitol security, while there’s also been certain identifiable people in the footage suggesting an invasion, who have never been arrested, despite dozens of people being held in custody for two years awaiting trial. People on trial have been acquitted after footage of them being let into the building by security have emerged, while others have been convicted because the available video evidence was not made available to their defence.
IMHO it was an attempt to delay proceedings, rather than a genuine attempt to overthrow the government. It also sits badly, given the history of infiltration of fringe groups by CIA and FBI in the States.
I wonder if a small part of the reason for the drop is the sight of Trump being restrained, by the mores and formality of the court if not literally. The cop letting the door shut in his face, his quietly yessing and noing, uncertainty flickering across his big orange face; in his own parlance he looked like a PUSSY. Once the blustering, boorish magic is gone it aint coming back.
He deserves a Charles I moment. He's obviously never cared about rules and is rich enough and brazen enough to get away with it. Itd be nice if he experienced even a moments doubt as a result of all this.
Still think the NY case wont go anywhere.
Georgia is the most troubling for Trump by some margin. It has a very wide RICO (racketeering) law with really tough penalties involved.
He also doesn't have a lot of political capital in the state to fall back on - Kemp and Raffensperger both defied him, he went gunning for both, both survived pretty easily, and both (plus other Republicans on the ballot) handsomely outperformed Trump's handpicked Senate pick.
I suspect the timings on Georgia are challenging in terms of making enough progress before November 2024, given Trump's lawyers see the threat and are throwing everything at stalling it. But there's serious potential for him to do hard time there.
While out walking the dog I was thinking about the last thread and the video taking the mickey out of people doing travel shows.
Much of humour is dependent upon stereotyping and exaggerating those stereotypes which is what makes them funny. This is what this video did and going back in time what Constable Savage did or Spinal Tap did. One of the best example is the Big Bang Theory which has just about every stereotype in it (dumb blond, Jew, Indian, nerd, catholic, evangelical christian, etc, etc). All the humour is based around these and not offensive to normal people.
Casino was happy with all the stereotypes except the 'middle aged white man'. Why was only that one a problem?
Because in the real world, that's the only one that is acceptable, I think.
Odd. So how do you account for all the others being accepted then? Never heard any objections to all the religion and race based jokes in the Big Bang Theory. Most of us are normal and don't take offence at any of this stuff and just enjoy it. We can tell the difference between harmless jokes and offensive jokes.
Just F off Macron, seriously. Go and spend the rest of your time running between Moscow and Beijing, where your political friends live.
Something about the French.
Swedish vodka producer Absolut and its parent company Pernod Ricard have resumed supplies of their products to Russia, Kristianstadsbladet newspaper reported, citing a company representative.
As stated by the representative of the brand, under the current sanctions "the concern supplies products in the volume that is able to protect local employees and ensure the economic sustainability of local organizations."
The representative stressed that Pernod Ricard complied with the EU restrictions, and after the invasion of Ukraine by the Russian army "acted taking into account the interests of its employees both in Ukraine and in Russia.
On parish councils, they are an ok and relatively harmless body I've found and often the repository of the most vicious, vituperative, treacherous personal politics around. But once you've sorted out the speeding signs and the church windows at Easter what else is there to do so naturally they go a bit Lord of the Flies.
Almost all are happily dawdling along. But you get some obsessive, aggravating personalities and the minuscule nature of it can turn people mad.
There was a famously awful Tory-led parish council in Broxtowe - they reprimanded all the local churches because the churches had had the temerity to organise an Easter event without consulting the council. They also attempted to have a parish referendum on Brexit - there is an obscure rule that parishes can do this - though I don't think that ultimately happened. Insurgent independents unseated some of them, and the personal recriminations both ways went on for years.
My local parish council is rather good - they consulted residents on whether to put the precept up by 5p in order to employ a youth worker to tackle ASB. Residents generally said yes, so they did, and the worker got stuck into a bunch of projects and ASB has gone down. They also run a food bank. It's the sort of little self-contained initiatives that can actually produce visible results - they pay no attention to national politics.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he sent his willing helpers to the Capitol. But by rights no group of people should ever be able to tear down some metal barriers and force their way into the seat of government. Into a football match maybe, but not into the Capitol. Once there they were as bemused as anyone although five people did die that day and many were in fear of their lives.
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
There was a lot going on that day, of which we still don’t know much of it.
There’s been some releases of video in the past few weeks, that suggest the ‘invaders’ were being almost given a guided tour by Capitol security, while there’s also been certain identifiable people in the footage suggesting an invasion, who have never been arrested, despite dozens of people being held in custody for two years awaiting trial. People on trial have been acquitted after footage of them being let into the building by security have emerged, while others have been convicted because the available video evidence was not made available to their defence.
IMHO it was an attempt to delay proceedings, rather than a genuine attempt to overthrow the government. It also sits badly, given the history of infiltration of fringe groups by CIA and FBI in the States.
I don’t recall the protestors chanting “Delay the proceedings” or holding up banners to say the same. They cried “Hang Pence”! They were there because they wanted Trump made the winner of the election.
While out walking the dog I was thinking about the last thread and the video taking the mickey out of people doing travel shows.
Much of humour is dependent upon stereotyping and exaggerating those stereotypes which is what makes them funny. This is what this video did and going back in time what Constable Savage did or Spinal Tap did. One of the best example is the Big Bang Theory which has just about every stereotype in it (dumb blond, Jew, Indian, nerd, catholic, evangelical christian, etc, etc). All the humour is based around these and not offensive to normal people.
Casino was happy with all the stereotypes except the 'middle aged white man'. Why was only that one a problem?
Because in the real world, that's the only one that is acceptable, I think.
Odd. So how do you account for all the others being accepted then? Never heard any objections to all the religion and race based jokes in the Big Bang Theory. Most of us are normal and don't take offence at any of this stuff and just enjoy it. We can tell the difference between harmless jokes and offensive jokes.
The Big Bang Theory is a TV programme, not the real world.
Have to say that Macron running around sucking up to China has been fun, though a little unedifying, to watch. Apparently Europe frees itself from the shacked of America by kowtowing to China. For all of the annoyances, pain and whatever else has come after Brexit, this is why I wanted out. We are not aligned with them, our view of the world and their view of the world are miles apart. It's becoming clearer and clearer that the EU is ready to sell Ukraine out so they can start selling BMWs and dishwashers to Russians again. Any "peace" deal brokered by Macron, Xi and Putin is a victory for invaders and despots and should be rejected out of hand.
Macron is debasing himself, France and Europe to be "the guy in the room". Any world leader could do that and they have chosen not to. He is a fool and I hope the protestors win and get rid of him.
Great response by You Si-kun the leader of Taiwan's parliament to Macron's 'diplomacy'.
Are liberte, egalite, fraternite out of fashion.
He's an interesting guy. His house was destroyed by a typhoon, and his Dad died of TB. So, he left school at 13 to rebuild and run the family farm. A founder of the DPP, he was a Taiwanese nationalist when that meant torture and jail.
While out walking the dog I was thinking about the last thread and the video taking the mickey out of people doing travel shows.
Much of humour is dependent upon stereotyping and exaggerating those stereotypes which is what makes them funny. This is what this video did and going back in time what Constable Savage did or Spinal Tap did. One of the best example is the Big Bang Theory which has just about every stereotype in it (dumb blond, Jew, Indian, nerd, catholic, evangelical christian, etc, etc). All the humour is based around these and not offensive to normal people.
Casino was happy with all the stereotypes except the 'middle aged white man'. Why was only that one a problem?
Because in the real world, that's the only one that is acceptable, I think.
Odd. So how do you account for all the others being accepted then? Never heard any objections to all the religion and race based jokes in the Big Bang Theory. Most of us are normal and don't take offence at any of this stuff and just enjoy it. We can tell the difference between harmless jokes and offensive jokes.
There’s no way the TBBT jokes would fly with today’s woke Hollywood TV executives.
After Comedy Central decided that the famous ‘roast’ comedy wasn’t allowed any more, and Youtube started censoring comedy specials because people would find it all way too offensive, comics in the States decided to host the more edgy comedy on their own websites, and also on sites like OnlyFans where subscribers can expect to know what the show is going to be. They’re all making millions, and it’s going to the comics themselves rather than the traditional industry middlemen. 👍
On January 6th, I think it's pretty obvious that, had they not successfully been taken to a place of safety, then Pelosi, Pence and others would be dead. It's also clear that authorities at the Capitol were relatively close to NOT being in a position to get them to a place of safety.
That does not mean it was a highly organised operation, nor that everyone (or even most people) in the crowd had murderous intent, nor that there was a developed plan to back it up had key people not been taken to safety. Trump was resistant to calling in back up from across state lines, though, and was clearly interested in how it might play out to his personal advantage. He only really stepped in when it was plain that it was fizzling.
To the extent there was a plan, it was to create a crisis - because with any crisis comes some opportunities, at a time when Trump's options were rapidly closing all around him.
Just F off Macron, seriously. Go and spend the rest of your time running between Moscow and Beijing, where your political friends live.
Something about the French.
Swedish vodka producer Absolut and its parent company Pernod Ricard have resumed supplies of their products to Russia, Kristianstadsbladet newspaper reported, citing a company representative.
As stated by the representative of the brand, under the current sanctions "the concern supplies products in the volume that is able to protect local employees and ensure the economic sustainability of local organizations."
The representative stressed that Pernod Ricard complied with the EU restrictions, and after the invasion of Ukraine by the Russian army "acted taking into account the interests of its employees both in Ukraine and in Russia.
While out walking the dog I was thinking about the last thread and the video taking the mickey out of people doing travel shows.
Much of humour is dependent upon stereotyping and exaggerating those stereotypes which is what makes them funny. This is what this video did and going back in time what Constable Savage did or Spinal Tap did. One of the best example is the Big Bang Theory which has just about every stereotype in it (dumb blond, Jew, Indian, nerd, catholic, evangelical christian, etc, etc). All the humour is based around these and not offensive to normal people.
Casino was happy with all the stereotypes except the 'middle aged white man'. Why was only that one a problem?
Because in the real world, that's the only one that is acceptable, I think.
Odd. So how do you account for all the others being accepted then? Never heard any objections to all the religion and race based jokes in the Big Bang Theory. Most of us are normal and don't take offence at any of this stuff and just enjoy it. We can tell the difference between harmless jokes and offensive jokes.
The Big Bang Theory is a TV programme, not the real world.
Eh? We are talking about a comedy video and a comedy TV show. The parallels are absolutely flaming identical!!!!
Although I will admit to being wrong in saying nobody complains about the Big Bang Theory. I'm sure there are some miserable 'woke' people out there complaining about it just as there are some miserable 'anti-woke' people complaining about that video.
They are as all as miserable and nutty as each other.
This might be good politics. I think the SNP would prefer GRR battles over Motorhome questions for the time being. Chaff.
@BrianSpanner1 So Sturgeon was acting SNP treasurer when they failed to notify of a £107,000 loan from her husband and that their auditor had run away.
While out walking the dog I was thinking about the last thread and the video taking the mickey out of people doing travel shows.
Much of humour is dependent upon stereotyping and exaggerating those stereotypes which is what makes them funny. This is what this video did and going back in time what Constable Savage did or Spinal Tap did. One of the best example is the Big Bang Theory which has just about every stereotype in it (dumb blond, Jew, Indian, nerd, catholic, evangelical christian, etc, etc). All the humour is based around these and not offensive to normal people.
Casino was happy with all the stereotypes except the 'middle aged white man'. Why was only that one a problem?
Because in the real world, that's the only one that is acceptable, I think.
Odd. So how do you account for all the others being accepted then? Never heard any objections to all the religion and race based jokes in the Big Bang Theory. Most of us are normal and don't take offence at any of this stuff and just enjoy it. We can tell the difference between harmless jokes and offensive jokes.
There’s no way the TBBT jokes would fly with today’s woke Hollywood TV executives.
After Comedy Central decided that the famous ‘roast’ comedy wasn’t allowed any more, and Youtube started censoring comedy specials because people would find it all way too offensive, comics in the States decided to host the more edgy comedy on their own websites, and also on sites like OnlyFans where subscribers can expect to know what the show is going to be. They’re all making millions, and it’s going to the comics themselves rather than the traditional industry middlemen. 👍
The Big Bang Theory passed me by until I recently binge-watched the box set I was given last Christmas. Some of it was uncomfortable viewing, such as making fun of speech impediments and race, not forgetting what today might be seen as sexual harassment with both male and female characters planting uninvited kisses on the opposite sex. And unabashed intellectual snobbery from its neurodiverse (or high-functioning autistic) main characters.
Just F off Macron, seriously. Go and spend the rest of your time running between Moscow and Beijing, where your political friends live.
Something about the French.
Swedish vodka producer Absolut and its parent company Pernod Ricard have resumed supplies of their products to Russia, Kristianstadsbladet newspaper reported, citing a company representative.
As stated by the representative of the brand, under the current sanctions "the concern supplies products in the volume that is able to protect local employees and ensure the economic sustainability of local organizations."
The representative stressed that Pernod Ricard complied with the EU restrictions, and after the invasion of Ukraine by the Russian army "acted taking into account the interests of its employees both in Ukraine and in Russia.
LOL at the suggestion that Russians might have any interest in Absolut vodka at $15 a bottle, as opposed to their own at about $3 a bottle. Maybe a few nightclubs in Moscow and St Petersberg.
*adds Pernod Ricard to the list of companies to boycott*
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
That's not true. The serious players like Trump learned where the democratic circuit breakers were. That's why, for example, there's a strong push to replace uncooperative election officials.
The guy who went into the Capitol were the patsies. A few of them a bit more organised than the rest.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he sent his willing helpers to the Capitol. But by rights no group of people should ever be able to tear down some metal barriers and force their way into the seat of government. Into a football match maybe, but not into the Capitol. Once there they were as bemused as anyone although five people did die that day and many were in fear of their lives.
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
There was a lot going on that day, of which we still don’t know much of it.
There’s been some releases of video in the past few weeks, that suggest the ‘invaders’ were being almost given a guided tour by Capitol security, while there’s also been certain identifiable people in the footage suggesting an invasion, who have never been arrested, despite dozens of people being held in custody for two years awaiting trial. People on trial have been acquitted after footage of them being let into the building by security have emerged, while others have been convicted because the available video evidence was not made available to their defence.
IMHO it was an attempt to delay proceedings, rather than a genuine attempt to overthrow the government. It also sits badly, given the history of infiltration of fringe groups by CIA and FBI in the States.
I don’t recall the protestors chanting “Delay the proceedings” or holding up banners to say the same. They cried “Hang Pence”! They were there because they wanted Trump made the winner of the election.
Stop being an apologist for violence.
So asking why there is video footage of protestors being escorted round the Capitol is now being "an apologist for violence"?
You are usually the type of person who talks about "follow the science", "facts are sacred" etc. Now we have a video which clearly shows the protestors being led around and your instant response is to try to shut any discussion down.
While out walking the dog I was thinking about the last thread and the video taking the mickey out of people doing travel shows.
Much of humour is dependent upon stereotyping and exaggerating those stereotypes which is what makes them funny. This is what this video did and going back in time what Constable Savage did or Spinal Tap did. One of the best example is the Big Bang Theory which has just about every stereotype in it (dumb blond, Jew, Indian, nerd, catholic, evangelical christian, etc, etc). All the humour is based around these and not offensive to normal people.
Casino was happy with all the stereotypes except the 'middle aged white man'. Why was only that one a problem?
Because in the real world, that's the only one that is acceptable, I think.
Odd. So how do you account for all the others being accepted then? Never heard any objections to all the religion and race based jokes in the Big Bang Theory. Most of us are normal and don't take offence at any of this stuff and just enjoy it. We can tell the difference between harmless jokes and offensive jokes.
The Big Bang Theory is a TV programme, not the real world.
Eh? We are talking about a comedy video and a comedy TV show. The parallels are absolutely flaming identical!!!!
It looks like you've conmpletely missed my point. I'll try to make it clearer.
The stereotype in comedy about the middle aged white man is more concerning than those about Jews, Indians etc because in the real world prejudice against the middle aged white man is acceptable (and often encouraged).
(Edit: At least, I think that's what the original objection was.)
The government is handing another £1.8 billion to various tech companies, often foreign-owned.
Government can, and should, do much, much better than that. It’s the typical Civil Service procurement scheme that involves two man-years of paperwork, that no small business with a good idea can possibly produce.
I’m usually a fan of the private sector over the public sector, but this sort of producer capture almost wants to make me think that the government should have hired the developers themselves. It’s one of those areas where Dominic Cummings was right.
Mr. B, in Truss' defence, she didn't kill tens of millions of people and consign a similar number to slave labour camps.
No, she increased interest rates by a few basis points more than they increased in France over the same time period.
Also she had 38 days instead of 70 years to prove herself.
I was prepared to give Liz Truss the benefit of an enormous doubt when Graham Brady started his overlong selection process. She could hardly be worse than Johnson, could she? By the end of it I was convinced she would be a disaster, even if I didn't predict she would self-destruct quite so spectacularly.
The 10 stadiums: Wembley (90,652) National Stadium of Wales (73,952) Tottenham Hotspur Stadium (62,322) City of Manchester Stadium (61,000) Everton Stadium (52,679) St James' Park (52,305) Villa Park (52,190) Hampden Park (52,032) Dublin Arena (51,711) Casement Park (34,500)
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he sent his willing helpers to the Capitol. But by rights no group of people should ever be able to tear down some metal barriers and force their way into the seat of government. Into a football match maybe, but not into the Capitol. Once there they were as bemused as anyone although five people did die that day and many were in fear of their lives.
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
There was a lot going on that day, of which we still don’t know much of it.
There’s been some releases of video in the past few weeks, that suggest the ‘invaders’ were being almost given a guided tour by Capitol security, while there’s also been certain identifiable people in the footage suggesting an invasion, who have never been arrested, despite dozens of people being held in custody for two years awaiting trial. People on trial have been acquitted after footage of them being let into the building by security have emerged, while others have been convicted because the available video evidence was not made available to their defence.
IMHO it was an attempt to delay proceedings, rather than a genuine attempt to overthrow the government. It also sits badly, given the history of infiltration of fringe groups by CIA and FBI in the States.
I don’t recall the protestors chanting “Delay the proceedings” or holding up banners to say the same. They cried “Hang Pence”! They were there because they wanted Trump made the winner of the election.
Stop being an apologist for violence.
So asking why there is video footage of protestors being escorted round the Capitol is now being "an apologist for violence"?
You are usually the type of person who talks about "follow the science", "facts are sacred" etc. Now we have a video which clearly shows the protestors being led around and your instant response is to try to shut any discussion down.
Well quite. There appears, from the outside, to be a situation where many non-violent people are now in prison, while those inciting violence appear to be getting away with it.
For the avoidance of doubt, people who were violent and inciting violence should be in prison, and people who were protesting peacefully should be free.
This might be good politics. I think the SNP would prefer GRR battles over Motorhome questions for the time being. Chaff.
At the moment the SNP needs all the distractions it can find...
And it will probably pitch Sarwar against Starmer.
Undoubtedly that is a potential issue. It depends how far the two can equivocate on the fine detail of gender reassignment [edit] given their past public statements, and when a Tory government has done its best to stir up the mud and sediment and obscure all clarity.
While out walking the dog I was thinking about the last thread and the video taking the mickey out of people doing travel shows.
Much of humour is dependent upon stereotyping and exaggerating those stereotypes which is what makes them funny. This is what this video did and going back in time what Constable Savage did or Spinal Tap did. One of the best example is the Big Bang Theory which has just about every stereotype in it (dumb blond, Jew, Indian, nerd, catholic, evangelical christian, etc, etc). All the humour is based around these and not offensive to normal people.
Casino was happy with all the stereotypes except the 'middle aged white man'. Why was only that one a problem?
Because in the real world, that's the only one that is acceptable, I think.
Odd. So how do you account for all the others being accepted then? Never heard any objections to all the religion and race based jokes in the Big Bang Theory. Most of us are normal and don't take offence at any of this stuff and just enjoy it. We can tell the difference between harmless jokes and offensive jokes.
The Big Bang Theory is a TV programme, not the real world.
Eh? We are talking about a comedy video and a comedy TV show. The parallels are absolutely flaming identical!!!!
Although I will admit to being wrong in saying nobody complains about the Big Bang Theory. I'm sure there are some miserable 'woke' people out there complaining about it just as there are some miserable 'anti-woke' people complaining about that video.
They are as all as miserable and nutty as each other.
I complain about the fact that it's bloody awful, and on telly too much!
True about prejudice against the middle aged white man btw; truly there is no solace or sanctuary for this poor maligned creature in our society these days []
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he sent his willing helpers to the Capitol. But by rights no group of people should ever be able to tear down some metal barriers and force their way into the seat of government. Into a football match maybe, but not into the Capitol. Once there they were as bemused as anyone although five people did die that day and many were in fear of their lives.
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
There was a lot going on that day, of which we still don’t know much of it.
There’s been some releases of video in the past few weeks, that suggest the ‘invaders’ were being almost given a guided tour by Capitol security, while there’s also been certain identifiable people in the footage suggesting an invasion, who have never been arrested, despite dozens of people being held in custody for two years awaiting trial. People on trial have been acquitted after footage of them being let into the building by security have emerged, while others have been convicted because the available video evidence was not made available to their defence.
IMHO it was an attempt to delay proceedings, rather than a genuine attempt to overthrow the government. It also sits badly, given the history of infiltration of fringe groups by CIA and FBI in the States.
I don’t recall the protestors chanting “Delay the proceedings” or holding up banners to say the same. They cried “Hang Pence”! They were there because they wanted Trump made the winner of the election.
Stop being an apologist for violence.
So asking why there is video footage of protestors being escorted round the Capitol is now being "an apologist for violence"?
You are usually the type of person who talks about "follow the science", "facts are sacred" etc. Now we have a video which clearly shows the protestors being led around and your instant response is to try to shut any discussion down.
You mean the highly selectively edited video broadcast by the same people currently getting their asses sued off by Dominion over their voting machine lies? How does this video prove anything? How does this video make all the video of highly violent attacks go away? It’s desperate clutching at straws.
The government is handing another £1.8 billion to various tech companies, often foreign-owned.
I used to work for a middling-size IT company. Turnover about £100m. One client insisted we "partnered" with one of the "big boys" IBM, Accenture etc. on a big project. Why? "Because if things go wrong, we can sue them for more than we can bankrupt you!".
What's the impact on global markets of a Trump coup?
In the absence of the rule of law it is only your physical ability and determination to inflict violence on others that secures your ownership of assets.
If Trump were to take power in 2025, thanks to a GOP House and Supreme Court, despite losing the election, then the rule of law in the US would be worthless, and the market value of US assets would respond consequently. In the short term, the prodigious capital outflows from the US, looking for a safe haven where the rule of law still applied, might see values in other markets rise, but the knock-on consequences for the global economy would be brutal.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he sent his willing helpers to the Capitol. But by rights no group of people should ever be able to tear down some metal barriers and force their way into the seat of government. Into a football match maybe, but not into the Capitol. Once there they were as bemused as anyone although five people did die that day and many were in fear of their lives.
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
There was a lot going on that day, of which we still don’t know much of it.
There’s been some releases of video in the past few weeks, that suggest the ‘invaders’ were being almost given a guided tour by Capitol security, while there’s also been certain identifiable people in the footage suggesting an invasion, who have never been arrested, despite dozens of people being held in custody for two years awaiting trial. People on trial have been acquitted after footage of them being let into the building by security have emerged, while others have been convicted because the available video evidence was not made available to their defence.
IMHO it was an attempt to delay proceedings, rather than a genuine attempt to overthrow the government. It also sits badly, given the history of infiltration of fringe groups by CIA and FBI in the States.
I don’t recall the protestors chanting “Delay the proceedings” or holding up banners to say the same. They cried “Hang Pence”! They were there because they wanted Trump made the winner of the election.
Stop being an apologist for violence.
So asking why there is video footage of protestors being escorted round the Capitol is now being "an apologist for violence"?
You are usually the type of person who talks about "follow the science", "facts are sacred" etc. Now we have a video which clearly shows the protestors being led around and your instant response is to try to shut any discussion down.
Well quite. There appears, from the outside, to be a situation where many non-violent people are now in prison, while those inciting violence appear to be getting away with it.
For the avoidance of doubt, people who were violent and inciting violence should be in prison, and people who were protesting peacefully should be free.
Peaceful protest can still be illegal in some circumstances. That’s certainly Conservative Party policy here in the UK!
Would you like to list some of these cases of non-violent people who are now in prison?
The 10 stadiums: Wembley (90,652) National Stadium of Wales (73,952) Tottenham Hotspur Stadium (62,322) City of Manchester Stadium (61,000) Everton Stadium (52,679) St James' Park (52,305) Villa Park (52,190) Hampden Park (52,032) Dublin Arena (51,711) Casement Park (34,500)
Yeah, that makes sense. I assume the "National Stadium of Wales" is the latest re-branding of the Millennium Stadium?
Only two in London and one in any other city, as expected.
Eastlands an easy choice over Old Trafford, as is the new Everton stadium over Anfield.
The 10 stadiums: Wembley (90,652) National Stadium of Wales (73,952) Tottenham Hotspur Stadium (62,322) City of Manchester Stadium (61,000) Everton Stadium (52,679) St James' Park (52,305) Villa Park (52,190) Hampden Park (52,032) Dublin Arena (51,711) Casement Park (34,500)
The 10 stadiums: Wembley (90,652) National Stadium of Wales (73,952) Tottenham Hotspur Stadium (62,322) City of Manchester Stadium (61,000) Everton Stadium (52,679) St James' Park (52,305) Villa Park (52,190) Hampden Park (52,032) Dublin Arena (51,711) Casement Park (34,500)
Old Trafford ruled out because of the potential of rebuilding works in 2028. Likewise Liverpool lost out to Everton's brand new stadium.
I expect St James' Park will be over 60,000 seats by the time it comes round (they've just bought the land Ashley sold to allow an extension to be built).
The 10 stadiums: Wembley (90,652) National Stadium of Wales (73,952) Tottenham Hotspur Stadium (62,322) City of Manchester Stadium (61,000) Everton Stadium (52,679) St James' Park (52,305) Villa Park (52,190) Hampden Park (52,032) Dublin Arena (51,711) Casement Park (34,500)
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he sent his willing helpers to the Capitol. But by rights no group of people should ever be able to tear down some metal barriers and force their way into the seat of government. Into a football match maybe, but not into the Capitol. Once there they were as bemused as anyone although five people did die that day and many were in fear of their lives.
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
There was a lot going on that day, of which we still don’t know much of it.
There’s been some releases of video in the past few weeks, that suggest the ‘invaders’ were being almost given a guided tour by Capitol security, while there’s also been certain identifiable people in the footage suggesting an invasion, who have never been arrested, despite dozens of people being held in custody for two years awaiting trial. People on trial have been acquitted after footage of them being let into the building by security have emerged, while others have been convicted because the available video evidence was not made available to their defence.
IMHO it was an attempt to delay proceedings, rather than a genuine attempt to overthrow the government. It also sits badly, given the history of infiltration of fringe groups by CIA and FBI in the States.
I don’t recall the protestors chanting “Delay the proceedings” or holding up banners to say the same. They cried “Hang Pence”! They were there because they wanted Trump made the winner of the election.
Stop being an apologist for violence.
So asking why there is video footage of protestors being escorted round the Capitol is now being "an apologist for violence"?
You are usually the type of person who talks about "follow the science", "facts are sacred" etc. Now we have a video which clearly shows the protestors being led around and your instant response is to try to shut any discussion down.
Well quite. There appears, from the outside, to be a situation where many non-violent people are now in prison, while those inciting violence appear to be getting away with it.
For the avoidance of doubt, people who were violent and inciting violence should be in prison, and people who were protesting peacefully should be free.
Peaceful protest can still be illegal in some circumstances. That’s certainly Conservative Party policy here in the UK!
Would you like to list some of these cases of non-violent people who are now in prison?
Let’s start with Jacob Chansley, the “QAnon Shaman”. He just got released from a four-year sentence, yet there’s no evidence of him involved in any violent act, nor of breaking into anywhere that the security didn’t think he should be allowed to go.
The 10 stadiums: Wembley (90,652) National Stadium of Wales (73,952) Tottenham Hotspur Stadium (62,322) City of Manchester Stadium (61,000) Everton Stadium (52,679) St James' Park (52,305) Villa Park (52,190) Hampden Park (52,032) Dublin Arena (51,711) Casement Park (34,500)
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he sent his willing helpers to the Capitol. But by rights no group of people should ever be able to tear down some metal barriers and force their way into the seat of government. Into a football match maybe, but not into the Capitol. Once there they were as bemused as anyone although five people did die that day and many were in fear of their lives.
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
There was a lot going on that day, of which we still don’t know much of it.
There’s been some releases of video in the past few weeks, that suggest the ‘invaders’ were being almost given a guided tour by Capitol security, while there’s also been certain identifiable people in the footage suggesting an invasion, who have never been arrested, despite dozens of people being held in custody for two years awaiting trial. People on trial have been acquitted after footage of them being let into the building by security have emerged, while others have been convicted because the available video evidence was not made available to their defence.
IMHO it was an attempt to delay proceedings, rather than a genuine attempt to overthrow the government. It also sits badly, given the history of infiltration of fringe groups by CIA and FBI in the States.
I don’t recall the protestors chanting “Delay the proceedings” or holding up banners to say the same. They cried “Hang Pence”! They were there because they wanted Trump made the winner of the election.
Stop being an apologist for violence.
So asking why there is video footage of protestors being escorted round the Capitol is now being "an apologist for violence"?
You are usually the type of person who talks about "follow the science", "facts are sacred" etc. Now we have a video which clearly shows the protestors being led around and your instant response is to try to shut any discussion down.
You mean the highly selectively edited video broadcast by the same people currently getting their asses sued off by Dominion over their voting machine lies? How does this video prove anything? How does this video make all the video of highly violent attacks go away? It’s desperate clutching at straws.
It was a demonstration. For whatever reason, and I have no problem thinking that they were acting at the behest of Trump who wanted to "delay proceedings" for his own nefarious reasons.
But even allowing for the tooled up MAGA Proud Boy loons it wasn't a bloodbath which, with that amount of firepower, it surely would or could have been if it had been intent on overthrowing the state by use of force.
It was not a coup. It was political violence which is sometimes necessary (see: 1770s) and sometimes not (see: Jan 6th) only it is often difficult at the time to work out which is necessary and which is not.
You seem to be hugely invested in this being Trump trying to win back the presidency with the use of violence.
He is a total dickwad and it amuses and horrifies me that he was POTUS albeit millions of people voted for him and you know what they say about democracy, but you keep on going on about the "broader picture", and he didn't meaningfully attempt a coup. Which presumably he would have been charged for if there was any substance to the accusation.
The 10 stadiums: Wembley (90,652) National Stadium of Wales (73,952) Tottenham Hotspur Stadium (62,322) City of Manchester Stadium (61,000) Everton Stadium (52,679) St James' Park (52,305) Villa Park (52,190) Hampden Park (52,032) Dublin Arena (51,711) Casement Park (34,500)
This might be good politics. I think the SNP would prefer GRR battles over Motorhome questions for the time being. Chaff.
The bill might not be sliced bread for many but it's within competence and backed by a clear majority of SMPs. The basis of the S35 veto is eminently challengable and it would be rude not to imo. I hope he wins the case. Probably won't but it's far from a lost cause. Be useful and interesting either way in fact.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he sent his willing helpers to the Capitol. But by rights no group of people should ever be able to tear down some metal barriers and force their way into the seat of government. Into a football match maybe, but not into the Capitol. Once there they were as bemused as anyone although five people did die that day and many were in fear of their lives.
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
There was a lot going on that day, of which we still don’t know much of it.
There’s been some releases of video in the past few weeks, that suggest the ‘invaders’ were being almost given a guided tour by Capitol security, while there’s also been certain identifiable people in the footage suggesting an invasion, who have never been arrested, despite dozens of people being held in custody for two years awaiting trial. People on trial have been acquitted after footage of them being let into the building by security have emerged, while others have been convicted because the available video evidence was not made available to their defence.
IMHO it was an attempt to delay proceedings, rather than a genuine attempt to overthrow the government. It also sits badly, given the history of infiltration of fringe groups by CIA and FBI in the States.
I don’t recall the protestors chanting “Delay the proceedings” or holding up banners to say the same. They cried “Hang Pence”! They were there because they wanted Trump made the winner of the election.
Stop being an apologist for violence.
So asking why there is video footage of protestors being escorted round the Capitol is now being "an apologist for violence"?
You are usually the type of person who talks about "follow the science", "facts are sacred" etc. Now we have a video which clearly shows the protestors being led around and your instant response is to try to shut any discussion down.
Well quite. There appears, from the outside, to be a situation where many non-violent people are now in prison, while those inciting violence appear to be getting away with it.
For the avoidance of doubt, people who were violent and inciting violence should be in prison, and people who were protesting peacefully should be free.
Peaceful protest can still be illegal in some circumstances. That’s certainly Conservative Party policy here in the UK!
Would you like to list some of these cases of non-violent people who are now in prison?
Let’s start with Jacob Chansley, the “QAnon Shaman”. He just got released from a four-year sentence, yet there’s no evidence of him involved in any violent act, nor of breaking into anywhere that the security didn’t think he should be allowed to go.
Thanks. So, he pleaded guilty to obstructing an official proceeding. He thinks he was guilty of a crime carrying a prison sentence. The prosecutors thought he was guilty of a crime carrying a prison sentence. He went to prison. I’m not seeing the problem here.
Do you think there’s a problem when someone pleads guilty to a crime carrying a prison sentence then gets a prison sentence?
Also, it was a 41 month sentence, which is nearer to 3 years, and he was released early.
I know this might seem an unpopular opinion but doctors are really coming out with some shite on twitter comparing pay to rates small businesses charge.
Someone on Twitter yesterday suggested that, perhaps there might be more support for the junior doctors, if their spokespeople didn’t sound like Arthur Scargill with a stethoscope!
They've got plenty of support at the moment, meanwhile my brother who runs his own business (And I'm sure charges more than £20/hr as does everyone with a small business) would love their pension; career progression; lack of overheads, guaranteed hours, guaranteed work & time and a half/double overtime.
My not-particularly-worldly-but-blessed/cursed-with-a-ferocious-sense-of-empathy 11 year old daughter was horrified that doctors are striking. "What if people get ill? I can understand why teachers would strike but doctors are already really rich." She is not possessed of a great deal of nuance but I suspect her view is not too far from typical.
The quid pro quo for certain groups having the moral obligation for not removing their labour, in my view, is a transparent and equitable process to determine salaries. The government decided to allow public sector wages including doctors to fall in real terms against rampant inflation. In this way they can fund tax cuts. Clearly they have removed that transparent and equitable process in a political decision. It's not a good position to end up in.
What's the impact on global markets of a Trump coup?
In the absence of the rule of law it is only your physical ability and determination to inflict violence on others that secures your ownership of assets.
If Trump were to take power in 2025, thanks to a GOP House and Supreme Court, despite losing the election, then the rule of law in the US would be worthless, and the market value of US assets would respond consequently. In the short term, the prodigious capital outflows from the US, looking for a safe haven where the rule of law still applied, might see values in other markets rise, but the knock-on consequences for the global economy would be brutal.
Who won the election in 2000 if all the votes were counted fairly?
This is surely one of the last times we will see a case like this. In the future, an unsavory fellow like Mr Edwards will claim his voice has been deepfaked - and no one will be able to prove otherwise. Then we will get the fake deepfake videos
The 10 stadiums: Wembley (90,652) National Stadium of Wales (73,952) Tottenham Hotspur Stadium (62,322) City of Manchester Stadium (61,000) Everton Stadium (52,679) St James' Park (52,305) Villa Park (52,190) Hampden Park (52,032) Dublin Arena (51,711) Casement Park (34,500)
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he sent his willing helpers to the Capitol. But by rights no group of people should ever be able to tear down some metal barriers and force their way into the seat of government. Into a football match maybe, but not into the Capitol. Once there they were as bemused as anyone although five people did die that day and many were in fear of their lives.
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
There was a lot going on that day, of which we still don’t know much of it.
There’s been some releases of video in the past few weeks, that suggest the ‘invaders’ were being almost given a guided tour by Capitol security, while there’s also been certain identifiable people in the footage suggesting an invasion, who have never been arrested, despite dozens of people being held in custody for two years awaiting trial. People on trial have been acquitted after footage of them being let into the building by security have emerged, while others have been convicted because the available video evidence was not made available to their defence.
IMHO it was an attempt to delay proceedings, rather than a genuine attempt to overthrow the government. It also sits badly, given the history of infiltration of fringe groups by CIA and FBI in the States.
I don’t recall the protestors chanting “Delay the proceedings” or holding up banners to say the same. They cried “Hang Pence”! They were there because they wanted Trump made the winner of the election.
Stop being an apologist for violence.
So asking why there is video footage of protestors being escorted round the Capitol is now being "an apologist for violence"?
You are usually the type of person who talks about "follow the science", "facts are sacred" etc. Now we have a video which clearly shows the protestors being led around and your instant response is to try to shut any discussion down.
Well quite. There appears, from the outside, to be a situation where many non-violent people are now in prison, while those inciting violence appear to be getting away with it.
For the avoidance of doubt, people who were violent and inciting violence should be in prison, and people who were protesting peacefully should be free.
Peaceful protest can still be illegal in some circumstances. That’s certainly Conservative Party policy here in the UK!
Would you like to list some of these cases of non-violent people who are now in prison?
Let’s start with Jacob Chansley, the “QAnon Shaman”. He just got released from a four-year sentence, yet there’s no evidence of him involved in any violent act, nor of breaking into anywhere that the security didn’t think he should be allowed to go.
Thanks. So, he pleaded guilty to obstructing an official proceeding. He thinks he was guilty of a crime carrying a prison sentence. The prosecutors thought he was guilty of a crime carrying a prison sentence. He went to prison. I’m not seeing the problem here.
Do you think there’s a problem when someone pleads guilty to a crime carrying a prison sentence then gets a prison sentence?
Also, it was a 41 month sentence, which is nearer to 3 years, and he was released early.
The video that’s been released in the last few weeks, was not made available to his defence team at the time of the trial. That’s a serious breach of his rights, given that all of the CCTV was requested by his lawyer. His choice was either to take the plea bargain and get four years, or to contest the trial and get life with no parole, for treason, on conviction. The US “justice” system is totally screwed up like that.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he sent his willing helpers to the Capitol. But by rights no group of people should ever be able to tear down some metal barriers and force their way into the seat of government. Into a football match maybe, but not into the Capitol. Once there they were as bemused as anyone although five people did die that day and many were in fear of their lives.
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
There was a lot going on that day, of which we still don’t know much of it.
There’s been some releases of video in the past few weeks, that suggest the ‘invaders’ were being almost given a guided tour by Capitol security, while there’s also been certain identifiable people in the footage suggesting an invasion, who have never been arrested, despite dozens of people being held in custody for two years awaiting trial. People on trial have been acquitted after footage of them being let into the building by security have emerged, while others have been convicted because the available video evidence was not made available to their defence.
IMHO it was an attempt to delay proceedings, rather than a genuine attempt to overthrow the government. It also sits badly, given the history of infiltration of fringe groups by CIA and FBI in the States.
I don’t recall the protestors chanting “Delay the proceedings” or holding up banners to say the same. They cried “Hang Pence”! They were there because they wanted Trump made the winner of the election.
Stop being an apologist for violence.
So asking why there is video footage of protestors being escorted round the Capitol is now being "an apologist for violence"?
You are usually the type of person who talks about "follow the science", "facts are sacred" etc. Now we have a video which clearly shows the protestors being led around and your instant response is to try to shut any discussion down.
You mean the highly selectively edited video broadcast by the same people currently getting their asses sued off by Dominion over their voting machine lies? How does this video prove anything? How does this video make all the video of highly violent attacks go away? It’s desperate clutching at straws.
It was a demonstration. For whatever reason, and I have no problem thinking that they were acting at the behest of Trump who wanted to "delay proceedings" for his own nefarious reasons.
But even allowing for the tooled up MAGA Proud Boy loons it wasn't a bloodbath which, with that amount of firepower, it surely would or could have been if it had been intent on overthrowing the state by use of force.
It was not a coup. It was political violence which is sometimes necessary (see: 1770s) and sometimes not (see: Jan 6th) only it is often difficult at the time to work out which is necessary and which is not.
You seem to be hugely invested in this being Trump trying to win back the presidency with the use of violence.
He is a total dickwad and it amuses and horrifies me that he was POTUS albeit millions of people voted for him and you know what they say about democracy, but you keep on going on about the "broader picture", and he didn't meaningfully attempt a coup. Which presumably he would have been charged for if there was any substance to the accusation.
He is currently under investigation by Special Counsel Jack Smith over these events. He may, or may not, be charged. I think you’ve got to wait and see how that plays out before making that argument!
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
It showed a ragtag mob lead by Steven Shaman in his horns and other deluded no-hope types, no doubt provoked and egged on by Donald Trump, ending up, somehow, in Washington inside the Capitol building which I'm pretty sure no one really thought they would or could ever reach.
Once in, they didn't really know what to do and hung around sitting on chairs and smoking weed.
They were not an organised force seeking to overthrow the state by force although they posed a very real and present danger to those inside the Capitol, both police and legislators and I can perfectly understand that these people were and have been since traumatised by the experience.
But it was not a coup. The massed forces of the state were pretty quickly brought into play against them and they were relatively quickly subdued. There was neither a shadow administration ready to take over, nor the force at its disposal for it to do so. They had the run of the Capitol but didn't appoint a president or ruling council or a Get Your Arse Over Here DJT And Run The Country Committee. I think they might like to have had DJT back running the place but they didn't actually take any steps to enable it.
Some years ago Otis Ferry and a few mates barged into the House of Commons, shouting the odds about foxhunting. They were given conditional discharges and fined, I believe, as a result. That wasn't a coup either.
The invasion of the Capitol wasn’t all that was happening. You have to place that violence, encouraged by Trump, in the context of his planning to ignore the democratic result of the election and install himself, with fake electors and having the military seize voting machines, e.g. see https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fake-electors-explainer/index.html
The coup was a bad joke. In a properly-planned coup, all the pieces have been played by the time that the coup is executed.
Isn’t that the worry? They’ve tried once, but were pretty incompetent at it. What happens if they try again and execute it well?
Yes, that's another of the weird deflections. It wasn't a coup as it failed, or didn't meet a particular definition of trying to overturn an election (and therefore state).
A coup displaces the incumbent administration and replaces it with something else. There was absolutely no intent to do this in this case. Yes there were some 2nd amendment loons with their weapons slung over their backs but had they been the slightest bit serious the body count would have been huge and not the 4:1 protesters:state that it turned out to be.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
Trump was actively planning in multiple ways to displace the winner of the election, Biden. Delaying the proceedings at the Capitol were part of that. You seem to be ignoring that broader context.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he sent his willing helpers to the Capitol. But by rights no group of people should ever be able to tear down some metal barriers and force their way into the seat of government. Into a football match maybe, but not into the Capitol. Once there they were as bemused as anyone although five people did die that day and many were in fear of their lives.
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
There was a lot going on that day, of which we still don’t know much of it.
There’s been some releases of video in the past few weeks, that suggest the ‘invaders’ were being almost given a guided tour by Capitol security, while there’s also been certain identifiable people in the footage suggesting an invasion, who have never been arrested, despite dozens of people being held in custody for two years awaiting trial. People on trial have been acquitted after footage of them being let into the building by security have emerged, while others have been convicted because the available video evidence was not made available to their defence.
IMHO it was an attempt to delay proceedings, rather than a genuine attempt to overthrow the government. It also sits badly, given the history of infiltration of fringe groups by CIA and FBI in the States.
I don’t recall the protestors chanting “Delay the proceedings” or holding up banners to say the same. They cried “Hang Pence”! They were there because they wanted Trump made the winner of the election.
Stop being an apologist for violence.
So asking why there is video footage of protestors being escorted round the Capitol is now being "an apologist for violence"?
You are usually the type of person who talks about "follow the science", "facts are sacred" etc. Now we have a video which clearly shows the protestors being led around and your instant response is to try to shut any discussion down.
Well quite. There appears, from the outside, to be a situation where many non-violent people are now in prison, while those inciting violence appear to be getting away with it.
For the avoidance of doubt, people who were violent and inciting violence should be in prison, and people who were protesting peacefully should be free.
Peaceful protest can still be illegal in some circumstances. That’s certainly Conservative Party policy here in the UK!
Would you like to list some of these cases of non-violent people who are now in prison?
Let’s start with Jacob Chansley, the “QAnon Shaman”. He just got released from a four-year sentence, yet there’s no evidence of him involved in any violent act, nor of breaking into anywhere that the security didn’t think he should be allowed to go.
Thanks. So, he pleaded guilty to obstructing an official proceeding. He thinks he was guilty of a crime carrying a prison sentence. The prosecutors thought he was guilty of a crime carrying a prison sentence. He went to prison. I’m not seeing the problem here.
Do you think there’s a problem when someone pleads guilty to a crime carrying a prison sentence then gets a prison sentence?
Also, it was a 41 month sentence, which is nearer to 3 years, and he was released early.
Pleading guilty in the American system absolutely does not mean the person actually thinks they're guilty...
The short version - South Korea has a law about not exporting arms to a country at war. So they are going to “lend” half a million 155 rounds to the US.
The US can then send a bigger chunk of its stockpile to Ukraine.
The South Koreans will be “repaid” from the new production that is ramping up in the US.
Mr. B, in Truss' defence, she didn't kill tens of millions of people and consign a similar number to slave labour camps.
No, she increased interest rates by a few basis points more than they increased in France over the same time period.
Also she had 38 days instead of 70 years to prove herself.
I was prepared to give Liz Truss the benefit of an enormous doubt when Graham Brady started his overlong selection process. She could hardly be worse than Johnson, could she? By the end of it I was convinced she would be a disaster, even if I didn't predict she would self-destruct quite so spectacularly.
She was actually gifted a pretty decent set of circumstances all things considered, too.
1. First demise of the crown in 70 years, opportunity for all the national unity patriotic stuff. 2. Enough political cover for being (a) not Johnson and (b) not having held an economic brief to be given the benefit of the doubt on things like energy bill support etc.
Problem was she was depressingly and shockingly out of her depth and that shone through pretty much straight away. She had no talent for high politics of the sort the PM needs to play.
Trump has two battles - secure the nomination, then secure the Presidency.
Getting his collar felt absolutely helps with the former. He remains the principle figure in the GOP and the driver of all kinds of madness at federal and state level. We now have people working towards the Fuhrer Trump, implementing all kinds of crazy things which further tighten his grip on the movement.
The problem for the GOP is that Trumpism is driving a big surge in centre / dem registration and participation as people rightly see this as the battle to save their democratic system and the country with it. So I can't see how any of this helps him secure the Presidency. Not that he was going to do so anyway against Biden.
Tucker Carlson told viewers that now was not the time to give up their AR15s. Because a full-scale armed insurrection is the only route to the Presidency for DJT.
Trump is suffering from the fact that legal, regulated abortion is popular.
Ironically, he knows this, but the Judges he appointed to do not. Or more likely, do not care.
The overturning - by a Texas Judge - of the FDA approval of an abortion pill reinforces the Dem narrative that this isn't about returning power to the States, but of banning abortion altogether.
We saw an echo of this in the Wisconsin Supreme Court election last week, where the State elected a Liberal by a 9 point margin, handing control back to the Dems for the first time in decades.
The short version - South Korea has a law about not exporting arms to a country at war. So they are going to “lend” half a million 155 rounds to the US.
The US can then send a bigger chunk of its stockpile to Ukraine.
The South Koreans will be “repaid” from the new production that is ramping up in the US.
Comments
Still think the NY case wont go anywhere.
She is not possessed of a great deal of nuance but I suspect her view is not too far from typical.
Labour achieved leads of 12% to 22%, between 1993 and 1997. As the article said, Labour tend to underperform their poll ratings in local elections, the Conservatives tend to match, or slightly exceed them.
https://www.thefp.com/p/alvin-braggs-dangerous-stunt
Are liberte, egalite, fraternite out of fashion.
These concerns are dismissed too easily on the basis it failed last time. They still tried, and will again.
It might not even be necessary as he could won legitimately, horrifying as that might be.
Good luck to anyone standing for election next month. I may not agree with them all politically, but they generally go into politics with good intention, and we need more people willing to put their name forward.
Now, that safeguard is gone.
In the end, it will probably force their legislators to grow up. Most voters don't really want people like Roy Moore and MTG in charge.
No one learned how to do a coup properly by this action. They just went on a demo march which got out of hand.
A proper coup d'etat is like the one that overthrew Lavrenty Beria. After a few minutes of being denounced as a US agent by Krushchev, it must have dawned on him that all the pieces had already been played, and he was now a dead man walking.
Similarly, the coup that overthrew Sejanus. Within minutes, he realised that his support base had collapsed. Macro had already suborned the senior officers of the Praetorian Guard, and the Senate could safely strike at him.
In such coups, the bloodletting (often extensive) is done after the event.
"I’m expecting somewhat varied results region by region, as anecdotal feedback from colleagues around the country is that not all regions are experiencing patterns that match the national opinion polls."
So if he sent them to delay proceedings while he hatched his master plan it was both unexpectedly successful and, as it appears that he is not now POTUS, very unsuccessful.
Sending a group of people to delay proceedings if you don't like an election result is not great. But it is hardly assembling a well-armed body designed to take by force the levers of power of a nation, now, is it.
https://www.pap.pl/aktualnosci/news,1559860,francja-blokuje-decyzje-ue-w-sprawie-finansowania-dostaw-amunicji-dla
That it was an utterly incompetent attempt at a coup, which failed miserably, doesn't mean it wasn't an attempt.
And with just a little more luck they might still have hung Pence, or Pelosi.
But even if it does, I can't see it getting anywhere. There wouldn't even be majority suppoort for it amongst Trump voters.
There’s been some releases of video in the past few weeks, that suggest the ‘invaders’ were being almost given a guided tour by Capitol security, while there’s also been certain identifiable people in the footage suggesting an invasion, who have never been arrested, despite dozens of people being held in custody for two years awaiting trial. People on trial have been acquitted after footage of them being let into the building by security have emerged, while others have been convicted because the available video evidence was not made available to their defence.
IMHO it was an attempt to delay proceedings, rather than a genuine attempt to overthrow the government. It also sits badly, given the history of infiltration of fringe groups by CIA and FBI in the States.
He also doesn't have a lot of political capital in the state to fall back on - Kemp and Raffensperger both defied him, he went gunning for both, both survived pretty easily, and both (plus other Republicans on the ballot) handsomely outperformed Trump's handpicked Senate pick.
I suspect the timings on Georgia are challenging in terms of making enough progress before November 2024, given Trump's lawyers see the threat and are throwing everything at stalling it. But there's serious potential for him to do hard time there.
This might be good politics. I think the SNP would prefer GRR battles over Motorhome questions for the time being. Chaff.
It does raise the question just how on earth he can stand again in 2024
Swedish vodka producer Absolut and its parent company Pernod Ricard have resumed supplies of their products to Russia, Kristianstadsbladet newspaper reported, citing a company representative.
As stated by the representative of the brand, under the current sanctions "the concern supplies products in the volume that is able to protect local employees and ensure the economic sustainability of local organizations."
The representative stressed that Pernod Ricard complied with the EU restrictions, and after the invasion of Ukraine by the Russian army "acted taking into account the interests of its employees both in Ukraine and in Russia.
Among the brands that the holding also owns are Chivas Regal, Jameson whiskeys and Havana Club rum.
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1645910506320822273
My local parish council is rather good - they consulted residents on whether to put the precept up by 5p in order to employ a youth worker to tackle ASB. Residents generally said yes, so they did, and the worker got stuck into a bunch of projects and ASB has gone down. They also run a food bank. It's the sort of little self-contained initiatives that can actually produce visible results - they pay no attention to national politics.
Stop being an apologist for violence.
Macron is debasing himself, France and Europe to be "the guy in the room". Any world leader could do that and they have chosen not to. He is a fool and I hope the protestors win and get rid of him.
His house was destroyed by a typhoon, and his Dad died of TB.
So, he left school at 13 to rebuild and run the family farm.
A founder of the DPP, he was a Taiwanese nationalist when that meant torture and jail.
After Comedy Central decided that the famous ‘roast’ comedy wasn’t allowed any more, and Youtube started censoring comedy specials because people would find it all way too offensive, comics in the States decided to host the more edgy comedy on their own websites, and also on sites like OnlyFans where subscribers can expect to know what the show is going to be. They’re all making millions, and it’s going to the comics themselves rather than the traditional industry middlemen. 👍
That does not mean it was a highly organised operation, nor that everyone (or even most people) in the crowd had murderous intent, nor that there was a developed plan to back it up had key people not been taken to safety. Trump was resistant to calling in back up from across state lines, though, and was clearly interested in how it might play out to his personal advantage. He only really stepped in when it was plain that it was fizzling.
To the extent there was a plan, it was to create a crisis - because with any crisis comes some opportunities, at a time when Trump's options were rapidly closing all around him.
Although I will admit to being wrong in saying nobody complains about the Big Bang Theory. I'm sure there are some miserable 'woke' people out there complaining about it just as there are some miserable 'anti-woke' people complaining about that video.
They are as all as miserable and nutty as each other.
So Sturgeon was acting SNP treasurer when they failed to notify of a £107,000 loan from her husband and that their auditor had run away.
Which is fine.
*adds Pernod Ricard to the list of companies to boycott*
County councillor Andrew Edwards is also accused of saying black people were of "lower class" than whites and has refused to deny the claims.
The allegations emerged after an audio recording appeared online and was identified as Mr Edwards' voice.
The Pembrokeshire County councillor - who also sits as a magistrate - said he had referred himself to ombudsmen and left the party.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-politician-claims-all-white-29689753
The serious players like Trump learned where the democratic circuit breakers were. That's why, for example, there's a strong push to replace uncooperative election officials.
The guy who went into the Capitol were the patsies. A few of them a bit more organised than the rest.
You are usually the type of person who talks about "follow the science", "facts are sacred" etc. Now we have a video which clearly shows the protestors being led around and your instant response is to try to shut any discussion down.
https://www.theregister.com/2023/04/12/uk_public_sector_framework_deal/
The government is handing another £1.8 billion to various tech companies, often foreign-owned.
The stereotype in comedy about the middle aged white man is more concerning than those about Jews, Indians etc because in the real world prejudice against the middle aged white man is acceptable (and often encouraged).
(Edit: At least, I think that's what the original objection was.)
I’m usually a fan of the private sector over the public sector, but this sort of producer capture almost wants to make me think that the government should have hired the developers themselves. It’s one of those areas where Dominic Cummings was right.
The 10 stadiums:
Wembley (90,652)
National Stadium of Wales (73,952) Tottenham Hotspur Stadium (62,322) City of Manchester Stadium (61,000) Everton Stadium (52,679)
St James' Park (52,305)
Villa Park (52,190)
Hampden Park (52,032)
Dublin Arena (51,711)
Casement Park (34,500)
For the avoidance of doubt, people who were violent and inciting violence should be in prison, and people who were protesting peacefully should be free.
True about prejudice against the middle aged white man btw; truly there is no solace or sanctuary for this poor maligned creature in our society these days []
One client insisted we "partnered" with one of the "big boys" IBM, Accenture etc. on a big project.
Why?
"Because if things go wrong, we can sue them for more than we can bankrupt you!".
Would you like to list some of these cases of non-violent people who are now in prison?
Only two in London and one in any other city, as expected.
Eastlands an easy choice over Old Trafford, as is the new Everton stadium over Anfield.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2028_bids
Likewise Liverpool lost out to Everton's brand new stadium.
I expect St James' Park will be over 60,000 seats by the time it comes round (they've just bought the land Ashley sold to allow an extension to be built).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casement_Park
Less than 7K of that capacity is seated. It looks like something out of 1920s, not the 2020s.
But even allowing for the tooled up MAGA Proud Boy loons it wasn't a bloodbath which, with that amount of firepower, it surely would or could have been if it had been intent on overthrowing the state by use of force.
It was not a coup. It was political violence which is sometimes necessary (see: 1770s) and sometimes not (see: Jan 6th) only it is often difficult at the time to work out which is necessary and which is not.
You seem to be hugely invested in this being Trump trying to win back the presidency with the use of violence.
He is a total dickwad and it amuses and horrifies me that he was POTUS albeit millions of people voted for him and you know what they say about democracy, but you keep on going on about the "broader picture", and he didn't meaningfully attempt a coup. Which presumably he would have been charged for if there was any substance to the accusation.
Do you think there’s a problem when someone pleads guilty to a crime carrying a prison sentence then gets a prison sentence?
Also, it was a 41 month sentence, which is nearer to 3 years, and he was released early.
https://www.the42.ie/casement-park-redevelopment-2-5508700-Jul2021/
https://www.reuters.com/world/south-korea-lend-500000-rounds-artillery-shells-us-report-2023-04-12/
The short version - South Korea has a law about not exporting arms to a country at war. So they are going to “lend” half a million 155 rounds to the US.
The US can then send a bigger chunk of its stockpile to Ukraine.
The South Koreans will be “repaid” from the new production that is ramping up in the US.
1. First demise of the crown in 70 years, opportunity for all the national unity patriotic stuff.
2. Enough political cover for being (a) not Johnson and (b) not having held an economic brief to be given the benefit of the doubt on things like energy bill support etc.
Problem was she was depressingly and shockingly out of her depth and that shone through pretty much straight away. She had no talent for high politics of the sort the PM needs to play.
Ironically, he knows this, but the Judges he appointed to do not. Or more likely, do not care.
The overturning - by a Texas Judge - of the FDA approval of an abortion pill reinforces the Dem narrative that this isn't about returning power to the States, but of banning abortion altogether.
We saw an echo of this in the Wisconsin Supreme Court election last week, where the State elected a Liberal by a 9 point margin, handing control back to the Dems for the first time in decades.