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And you will fix this how, exactly? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,054
    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't know the Scottish case, but in principle don't think a non-custodial sentence is always inappropriate. That should be for the judge to decide.

    Douglas Hurd famously said "Prison is an expensive way to make bad people worse" and pointed out that locking people up had only a short term effect. He was a rare Home Secretary who actually reduced the prison population.

    The USA has a quarter of the world's prison population. Is it safer? Not from what is written upthread.

    It is very much a minority view but I think that the societal obsession with sending people to prison, much in evidence on PB, is evidence of how society is actually moving backwards and becoming less civilised; something also reflected in the appalling conditions in prisons, which people are generally indifferent about.

    But to move on from it you have to find demonstrably workable alternatives that people can be confident in. The problem is really that people don't have confidence in institutions like the probation service, the parole board, etc, because a lot of time they don't work. I think though that eventually technology (AI and surveillance) will transform offender management in the community.

    Prison should just be used for the management of dangerous and repeat offenders, not generally as a form of routine punishment. One of the good 'woke' ideas is prison abolition.
    I wouldn't call for abolition, but there is potentially a lot of funding for probation services, shortening time to trial and well supervised non-custodial sentences released by spending less on prisons.

    Despite being a fully signed up member of the wokerati, I am afraid on this occasion I cannot agree. Drug dealing, girl-friend beating scrotes need to be taught a lesson. Unless and until Suella resurrects the "cat o' nine tails" banging the barstewards up is the only answer.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,360
    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't know the Scottish case, but in principle don't think a non-custodial sentence is always inappropriate. That should be for the judge to decide.

    Douglas Hurd famously said "Prison is an expensive way to make bad people worse" and pointed out that locking people up had only a short term effect. He was a rare Home Secretary who actually reduced the prison population.

    The USA has a quarter of the world's prison population. Is it safer? Not from what is written upthread.

    It is very much a minority view but I think that the societal obsession with sending people to prison, much in evidence on PB, is evidence of how society is actually moving backwards and becoming less civilised; something also reflected in the appalling conditions in prisons, which people are generally indifferent about.

    But to move on from it you have to find demonstrably workable alternatives that people can be confident in. The problem is really that people don't have confidence in institutions like the probation service, the parole board, etc, because a lot of time they don't work. I think though that eventually technology (AI and surveillance) will transform offender management in the community.

    Prison should just be used for the management of dangerous and repeat offenders, not generally as a form of routine punishment. One of the good 'woke' ideas is prison abolition.
    Prison abolition would obviously not be good for people on the receiving end of murder, battery, rape, theft etc.

    There are enough sociopaths in our society to make the use of prison inevitable, unless one is advocating execution, mutilation, exile etc as alternatives.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,769

    Nigelb said:

    This is not exactly a novel observation, but I was slightly taken aback by the BBC reporting Trump's obvious lies about the circumstances of his arrest as a 'revelation'.
    And that was the top headline on R4 news earlier this morning.

    Reporters will still instantly repeat literally anything Trump says—after eight long years of constant, unrepentant lies—and they’ll do it with no more criticism than a slightly arch tone.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1645949744823320577

    They don't see it as their role to determine truth or facts, but to present the most engaging mix of opinion and bullshit to gain as much attention as possible.

    Trump is just perfect for them.
    On a similar note, the BBC is virtually pleasuring itself to death over getting the ‘scoop’ of an interview with Musk. You will be unsurprised that the softest of balls were pitched at him.
    As predicted at the time he bought Twitter, its all about x.com. Twitter no longer exists as a company, its now part of his everything app project. Hence him tweeting "X" a few days back after this went though.

    He is messing about with Twitter knowing its time as Twitter is finite. If it is going to change anyway, he thinks he may as well have some fun with it.
    Yes, x.com is definitely the plan. In the meantime he’s having fun by messing with people who take themselves far too seriously online, whilst also shining a little light onto just how dangerous social media can be for the public discourse.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,006

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    As I understand it, the current legal definition of sexual assault, dating back to 2003, is based on consent. Consequently, lots of sexual encounters can potentially fall under the definition of sexual assault or rape whereas previously they would not have been regarded as such. The threshold for a legitimate complaint is low, but the threshold of proof for the police/prosecutors is very high - because a permitted defence is that the perpetrator had a 'reasonable belief' that there was consent, and then the crime has to obviously be proved 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

    I would say that the current legal definition is a significant contributory factor in the difficulties in prosecuting these crimes and the consequential low conviction rates, and this needs to be taken in to account in any prospective reform. If the goal is to increase prosecutions, the one obvious change I can think of would be to change the test from 'beyond reasonable doubt' to one that is based on the 'balance of probabilities'. Obviously though that would be a fundamental change to the legal system, and not a path to be embarked on lightly.

    The best way to increase conviction rates is to abolish jury trials for sexual offences. Normal people are seriously reluctant to send someone down for years on the basis of he said / she said; letting the legal professionals deal with it would be much better for the police clear up stats, the Home Office productivity stats and the charities wanting to see more men in prison for a date that went badly.
    It needs saying: the object of the exercise is not more convictions but more guilty men held to account for their vile , selfish behaviour. Every time you remove a safeguard you risk innocent people being sent to jail for some greater good.
    Imagine yourself in the dock in such a scenario and think about that.
    For many, it is about more convictions and harsher sentences. Efficacy, let alone justice, is at best a secondary consideration when considered at all.
    Yes, and they are the scary ones. I did a trial recently where the accused was not allowed to allege that the complainer had asked him for a shag the night after the alleged rape. This was deemed collateral and inadmissible on the question of whether she consented on the night in question. Truly irrational in my view. In contrast I am waiting for the decision of a jury overnight in which I am relying on evidence that the accused had sex with another 14 year old a year before the alleged offence. This is, in contrast, deemed both admissible and corroborative. It will be interesting to see what the jury make of it.

    "I did a trial recently where the accused was not allowed to allege that the complainer had asked him for a shag the night after the alleged rape."

    That is indescribably unjust. I thought the Supreme Court had ruled this out of order? That previous/relevant sexual history between complainant and plaintiff must be allowed, if germane? How can it not be germane?

    I would probably have been convicted under these strictures (ie not allowing prior sexual history). And I was innocent. I would have got 5-7 years aged 22
    The logic is that these "collateral" matters confuse and distract the jury. They are there to determine whether the woman was raped on date X by Mr Y. Sometimes, often, these allegations of both prior sex and post sex are just that and you could end up with a trial about 2 or 3 events rather than 1. But in my case there was a text asking for exactly that. And the jury were not allowed to see it. And they convicted.

    I am extremely uncomfortable with this.
    Can the conviction be appealed?
    Very unlikely. It was in accordance with the current law. The judge did not misdirect himself or the jury. Jury decisions can't really be appealed on the facts and, to be honest, it could not be said that the decision was in any way irrational on the information that they had. It is the law that needs correcting, our Scottish courts have got themselves into a cul-de-sac.
    Would it have been different in England?
    I don't know. An English lawyer on here should be able to tell you.
    Or even a free tabloid..


    That's a different issue Divvie. I was being asked about whether evidence of a subsequent request for sex by the complainer from the accused would be admissible in England. I don't know enough about English laws of evidence to answer that.
    Ah, in that case apologies.
    It does seem that English and Scots law have often lurched along in tandem. In your case would the judge have had enough self determination to allow the allegation of being asked for a ‘shag’ to be aired?
    No, indeed there are several appeal court decisions which emphasise the importance of s274 (the rape shield provision designed to protect the dignity of the complainer) and are emphatic that judges must not let the idea of fairness for the accused to override it.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,903
    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't know the Scottish case, but in principle don't think a non-custodial sentence is always inappropriate. That should be for the judge to decide.

    Douglas Hurd famously said "Prison is an expensive way to make bad people worse" and pointed out that locking people up had only a short term effect. He was a rare Home Secretary who actually reduced the prison population.

    The USA has a quarter of the world's prison population. Is it safer? Not from what is written upthread.

    It is very much a minority view but I think that the societal obsession with sending people to prison, much in evidence on PB, is evidence of how society is actually moving backwards and becoming less civilised; something also reflected in the appalling conditions in prisons, which people are generally indifferent about.

    But to move on from it you have to find demonstrably workable alternatives that people can be confident in. The problem is really that people don't have confidence in institutions like the probation service, the parole board, etc, because a lot of time they don't work. I think though that eventually technology (AI and surveillance) will transform offender management in the community.

    Prison should just be used for the management of dangerous and repeat offenders, not generally as a form of routine punishment. One of the good 'woke' ideas is prison abolition.
    I am not entirely sure that I am looking forward to a society where AI and technological surveillance transforms offender management. Do you really think such technology would stop there?

    And the problem with alternatives is that they just don't seem to work as this very recent headline shows: https://news.stv.tv/politics/over-100000-absences-from-community-sentences-insult-to-victims-scottish-conservatives-say

    People given community work as an alternative to prison are just not turning up in huge numbers.
    Just another aspect of a chaotic and underfunded system, and of trying to do it on the cheap. Non-custodial sentences shouldn't be a soft option.

  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,703
    edited April 2023
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    This is not exactly a novel observation, but I was slightly taken aback by the BBC reporting Trump's obvious lies about the circumstances of his arrest as a 'revelation'.
    And that was the top headline on R4 news earlier this morning.

    Reporters will still instantly repeat literally anything Trump says—after eight long years of constant, unrepentant lies—and they’ll do it with no more criticism than a slightly arch tone.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1645949744823320577

    They don't see it as their role to determine truth or facts, but to present the most engaging mix of opinion and bullshit to gain as much attention as possible.

    Trump is just perfect for them.
    On a similar note, the BBC is virtually pleasuring itself to death over getting the ‘scoop’ of an interview with Musk. You will be unsurprised that the softest of balls were pitched at him.
    It was interesting nonetheless - even if both interview and accompanying analysis were about as lightweight as it's possible to be.
    Yeah, I guess so, though anyone without any background knowledge would have received a very different impression than did a hoary old cynic such as myself (I hesitate to tar you with the same brush 🙂). I thought the self pity was notable.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,987
    Foxy said:

    I don't know the Scottish case, but in principle don't think a non-custodial sentence is always inappropriate. That should be for the judge to decide.

    Douglas Hurd famously said "Prison is an expensive way to make bad people worse" and pointed out that locking people up had only a short term effect. He was a rare Home Secretary who actually reduced the prison population.

    The USA has a quarter of the world's prison population. Is it safer? Not from what is written upthread.

    Largely agree but am a bit sceptical about judges doing the sentencing.

    They are just ex-lawyers right? They don't see the consequences of their mistakes, or even track whether people they let off lightly reoffended.

    Way out of my area of expertise, but I would have thought that some kind of sentencing board/panel with people who have worked in rehabilitation would be better than a judge.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,877
    edited April 2023

    Nigelb said:

    This is not exactly a novel observation, but I was slightly taken aback by the BBC reporting Trump's obvious lies about the circumstances of his arrest as a 'revelation'.
    And that was the top headline on R4 news earlier this morning.

    Reporters will still instantly repeat literally anything Trump says—after eight long years of constant, unrepentant lies—and they’ll do it with no more criticism than a slightly arch tone.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1645949744823320577

    They don't see it as their role to determine truth or facts, but to present the most engaging mix of opinion and bullshit to gain as much attention as possible.

    Trump is just perfect for them.
    On a similar note, the BBC is virtually pleasuring itself to death over getting the ‘scoop’ of an interview with Musk. You will be unsurprised that the softest of balls were pitched at him.
    As predicted at the time he bought Twitter, its all about x.com. Twitter no longer exists as a company, its now part of his everything app project. Hence him tweeting "X" a few days back after this went though.

    He is messing about with Twitter knowing its time as Twitter is finite. If it is going to change anyway, he thinks he may as well have some fun with it.
    Twitter's time is finite simply because he has destroyed a lot of the (social map) value within it.

    The idea that he can create a unifying app for everything is sadly for the birds - when he first launched X it was too early, now its just too late.

    The time to do it was 2008 or so as mobiles took off which is how that model worked so well in China (when it comes to this type of app timing is absolutely everything).
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,006
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't know the Scottish case, but in principle don't think a non-custodial sentence is always inappropriate. That should be for the judge to decide.

    Douglas Hurd famously said "Prison is an expensive way to make bad people worse" and pointed out that locking people up had only a short term effect. He was a rare Home Secretary who actually reduced the prison population.

    The USA has a quarter of the world's prison population. Is it safer? Not from what is written upthread.

    It is very much a minority view but I think that the societal obsession with sending people to prison, much in evidence on PB, is evidence of how society is actually moving backwards and becoming less civilised; something also reflected in the appalling conditions in prisons, which people are generally indifferent about.

    But to move on from it you have to find demonstrably workable alternatives that people can be confident in. The problem is really that people don't have confidence in institutions like the probation service, the parole board, etc, because a lot of time they don't work. I think though that eventually technology (AI and surveillance) will transform offender management in the community.

    Prison should just be used for the management of dangerous and repeat offenders, not generally as a form of routine punishment. One of the good 'woke' ideas is prison abolition.
    I am not entirely sure that I am looking forward to a society where AI and technological surveillance transforms offender management. Do you really think such technology would stop there?

    And the problem with alternatives is that they just don't seem to work as this very recent headline shows: https://news.stv.tv/politics/over-100000-absences-from-community-sentences-insult-to-victims-scottish-conservatives-say

    People given community work as an alternative to prison are just not turning up in huge numbers.
    Just another aspect of a chaotic and underfunded system, and of trying to do it on the cheap. Non-custodial sentences shouldn't be a soft option.

    I completely agree Foxy but you are never going to persuade the public of that when you don't even enforce the alternatives.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,300
    I hadn't realised Korea's 'Blue House' presidential residence had been abandoned by the current president and opened to the public.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_House

    In S Korea, it's almost as iconic as the White House in the US.
    Definitely on my itinerary this year.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,676
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is not exactly a novel observation, but I was slightly taken aback by the BBC reporting Trump's obvious lies about the circumstances of his arrest as a 'revelation'.
    And that was the top headline on R4 news earlier this morning.

    Reporters will still instantly repeat literally anything Trump says—after eight long years of constant, unrepentant lies—and they’ll do it with no more criticism than a slightly arch tone.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1645949744823320577

    They don't see it as their role to determine truth or facts, but to present the most engaging mix of opinion and bullshit to gain as much attention as possible.

    Trump is just perfect for them.
    On a similar note, the BBC is virtually pleasuring itself to death over getting the ‘scoop’ of an interview with Musk. You will be unsurprised that the softest of balls were pitched at him.
    As predicted at the time he bought Twitter, its all about x.com. Twitter no longer exists as a company, its now part of his everything app project. Hence him tweeting "X" a few days back after this went though.

    He is messing about with Twitter knowing its time as Twitter is finite. If it is going to change anyway, he thinks he may as well have some fun with it.
    Yes, x.com is definitely the plan. In the meantime he’s having fun by messing with people who take themselves far too seriously online, whilst also shining a little light onto just how dangerous social media can be for the public discourse.
    I mean, that's a view. Another is that he's no idea what he's doing, aside from aiming for some vague and nebulous endpoint.

    A bit like Meta's Metaverse, and which will probably be just as successful.
  • Options
    UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 821
    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't know the Scottish case, but in principle don't think a non-custodial sentence is always inappropriate. That should be for the judge to decide.

    Douglas Hurd famously said "Prison is an expensive way to make bad people worse" and pointed out that locking people up had only a short term effect. He was a rare Home Secretary who actually reduced the prison population.

    The USA has a quarter of the world's prison population. Is it safer? Not from what is written upthread.

    Largely agree but am a bit sceptical about judges doing the sentencing.

    They are just ex-lawyers right? They don't see the consequences of their mistakes, or even track whether people they let off lightly reoffended.

    Way out of my area of expertise, but I would have thought that some kind of sentencing board/panel with people who have worked in rehabilitation would be better than a judge.
    They're not always ex-lawyers. In England, Magistrates are lay and are voluntary roles. My understanding is that this comes with it's own issues, but most people are eligible to volunteer.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,132
    Mr. Jessop, the metaverse does perplex me.

    The internet. But you need a VR headset (yes, I know it's technically possible to use without one but it's meant to have VR). And crypto is the financial mainstay, with NFTs galore. And you have to pay a slice to the metaverse owner if you want to do things like applaud a friend who's performing stand-up comedy.

    So it's just the internet with extra expense and inconvenience.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,769
    Sean_F said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't know the Scottish case, but in principle don't think a non-custodial sentence is always inappropriate. That should be for the judge to decide.

    Douglas Hurd famously said "Prison is an expensive way to make bad people worse" and pointed out that locking people up had only a short term effect. He was a rare Home Secretary who actually reduced the prison population.

    The USA has a quarter of the world's prison population. Is it safer? Not from what is written upthread.

    It is very much a minority view but I think that the societal obsession with sending people to prison, much in evidence on PB, is evidence of how society is actually moving backwards and becoming less civilised; something also reflected in the appalling conditions in prisons, which people are generally indifferent about.

    But to move on from it you have to find demonstrably workable alternatives that people can be confident in. The problem is really that people don't have confidence in institutions like the probation service, the parole board, etc, because a lot of time they don't work. I think though that eventually technology (AI and surveillance) will transform offender management in the community.

    Prison should just be used for the management of dangerous and repeat offenders, not generally as a form of routine punishment. One of the good 'woke' ideas is prison abolition.
    Prison abolition would obviously not be good for people on the receiving end of murder, battery, rape, theft etc.

    There are enough sociopaths in our society to make the use of prison inevitable, unless one is advocating execution, mutilation, exile etc as alternatives.
    IMHO there needs to be changes at both ends of the spectrum. Too many non-violent criminals end up in prison, but also too many serious offenders get a relative slap on the wrist. Short sentences help no-one, and should be replaced with harsher community penalties that mean people can be punished without losing their job.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,987
    Unpopular said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't know the Scottish case, but in principle don't think a non-custodial sentence is always inappropriate. That should be for the judge to decide.

    Douglas Hurd famously said "Prison is an expensive way to make bad people worse" and pointed out that locking people up had only a short term effect. He was a rare Home Secretary who actually reduced the prison population.

    The USA has a quarter of the world's prison population. Is it safer? Not from what is written upthread.

    Largely agree but am a bit sceptical about judges doing the sentencing.

    They are just ex-lawyers right? They don't see the consequences of their mistakes, or even track whether people they let off lightly reoffended.

    Way out of my area of expertise, but I would have thought that some kind of sentencing board/panel with people who have worked in rehabilitation would be better than a judge.
    They're not always ex-lawyers. In England, Magistrates are lay and are voluntary roles. My understanding is that this comes with it's own issues, but most people are eligible to volunteer.
    Thanks, I didn't realise magistrates could do sentencing and send people to prison.
  • Options
    Entirely off-topic, but having increasing fun* trying to liaise a French team who don't understand how things operate outside France.

    An example. Customer has changed their delivery depot from point a to point b. Haulier wants €15 more for the extra distance - not a fixed mark because it is all about fuel surcharges and their costs being variable.

    Team France seem outraged that I haven't imposed a cost price increase on the customer. If we changed customer prices every time our logistics costs change, we would no longer have a customer.

    Or is this the kind of thing that has French people blockading motorways and burning sheep lorries?
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,260
    MaxPB said:

    Question for the car nerds on here, looking to get a city run around for my wife, it's got to be automatic, small and be able to take two children's car seats comfortably.

    I'm looking at the Audi A1/A3 is there some glaring issue with it that I should avoid and get something else?

    The A1 Sportline petrol is still my favourite small car having rented one for a holiday a while back. Absolutely brilliant to drive, and full of great toys.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,132
    Mr. Pioneers, congrats.

    Just say no to Raid Shadow Legends sponsorship, though.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,378

    MaxPB said:

    Question for the car nerds on here, looking to get a city run around for my wife, it's got to be automatic, small and be able to take two children's car seats comfortably.

    I'm looking at the Audi A1/A3 is there some glaring issue with it that I should avoid and get something else?

    The A1 Sportline petrol is still my favourite small car having rented one for a holiday a while back. Absolutely brilliant to drive, and full of great toys.
    If you want a VW type car how about a Skoda?
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,280

    Gollywogs update.

    Ryley denied that she or her husband were racist. “I’m not a racist in any form.”

    She confirmed that her husband had been photographed in a T-shirt from the far-right group Britain First. She said: “I don’t think Chris is a supporter of Britain First, he was just wearing that shirt because it was convenient at the time.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/11/essex-pub-landlady-benice-ryley-replaces-golliwog-doll-collection-that-was-seized-by-police

    One day, I was in the office at work, writing something, and I thought to myself how nice the pen I was using was. I wondered where it had come from and I took a closer link. The pen had writing on it, but in Cyrillic. My Cyrillic is rusty and the lettering small, but I sounded out the letters one by one and it turned out the pen was promoting a hardline Serb nationalist party in Republika Srpska, the Serb part of Bosnia. Pretty unpleasant chaps, who shielded war criminals. I have no idea how that pen got to my office, but that’s what happens with pens. So, if this Chris had been spotted with a Britain First pen, I might have some sympathy.


    But a T-shirt! For f***’s sake.
    Please Miss! A golliwog ate my T shirt.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,769

    Also entirely off-topic. I have just received my first income from YouTube! OK so its £200 not £20,000. But it's growing...

    Congratulations! What’s your channel? PM if you don’t want it public, always happy to watch videos to help people earn money.
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    Morning all.

    Good header as usual from Cyclefree. No mention of the 40%, of course, but that's only to be expected.

    I was particularly struck by this part:

    But if this is wrong and the under 25’s cannot be expected to understand that raping a child is wrong or bear the rigours of prison, why are we expecting them to vote, get a job, get married, become parents or even MPs? Does immaturity only matter when it comes to doing wrong?

    This inconsistency pervades politics generally. For instance, many of the same people who pushed for the age for buying lottery tickets and cigarettes to go up are also pushing for the voting age to go down.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,300
    Sandpit said:

    Also entirely off-topic. I have just received my first income from YouTube! OK so its £200 not £20,000. But it's growing...

    Congratulations! What’s your channel? PM if you don’t want it public, always happy to watch videos to help people earn money.
    Something you have in common with TSE...allegedly.
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,280
    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't know the Scottish case, but in principle don't think a non-custodial sentence is always inappropriate. That should be for the judge to decide.

    Douglas Hurd famously said "Prison is an expensive way to make bad people worse" and pointed out that locking people up had only a short term effect. He was a rare Home Secretary who actually reduced the prison population.

    The USA has a quarter of the world's prison population. Is it safer? Not from what is written upthread.

    Largely agree but am a bit sceptical about judges doing the sentencing.

    They are just ex-lawyers right? They don't see the consequences of their mistakes, or even track whether people they let off lightly reoffended.

    Way out of my area of expertise, but I would have thought that some kind of sentencing board/panel with people who have worked in rehabilitation would be better than a judge.
    Perhaps the jury, having been advised of the range of sentences, should make a recommendation to the judge? The judge can then accept or alter the recommendation, having given their reasons for doing so.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,575
    DavidL said:

    I am just shocked, shocked I tell you: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65245065

    "It says that the UK is among a number of countries with special forces operating in Ukraine. According to the document, dated 23 March, the UK has the largest contingent (50), followed by Latvia (17), France (15), the US (14) and the Netherlands (1)."

    Hereford Boat Club scouting regatta locations. Nothing to see here….
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,118
    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone posted this video a few days ago. I love the bit where he says "This might be the best thing I've ever eaten. I'm not joking". Comedian Michael Spicer with "Half of British Television Always Starts Like This".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjnmzljtREk

    That would have been the perfect spoof if they hadn't Woked it up with the "white middle-aged male" dig, which is always the tale tale sign of a liberal leper thinking they're being edgy.

    Joanna Lumley and Romesh Ranganathan also do this, amongst many others.

    You and Leon see woke in everything. It's funny because lots are middle aged white men who do these programmes. Lots aren't as well. Nothing wrong with that or these type of programmes, just funny taking the mickey out of the format.

    People should chill and take offence less on both the woke and anti woke sides and enjoy the jokes. There are times to take offence and times when it is just a joke.
    Because it is Woke. The primary purpose of this skit by this guy wasn't just to be "funny" it was to signal how anti-racist and progressive he was to his peer group. That's why 'white middle-aged male' is the punchline - despite its blithe inaccuracy - and why it's mentioned all the time these days socially and professionally; it's used as a pejorative, and Woke covers it absolutely.

    It signals to me he's a socially insecure sheep - who doesn't know or care about the social division in race and gender he's laying with such comments - and only cares about himself and what people think of him socially, so I have no respect for it - in fact, I have borderline contempt.

    I feel much the same about defensive posts like this on top and those who like them.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,222

    Gollywogs update.

    Ryley denied that she or her husband were racist. “I’m not a racist in any form.”

    She confirmed that her husband had been photographed in a T-shirt from the far-right group Britain First. She said: “I don’t think Chris is a supporter of Britain First, he was just wearing that shirt because it was convenient at the time.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/11/essex-pub-landlady-benice-ryley-replaces-golliwog-doll-collection-that-was-seized-by-police

    What non- Nazi doesn't have an item of pro-fascist themed clothing in the event of an emergency?

    My most embarrassing piece of apparel is my "Just one more cut Thatchers throat" pin badge.

    I have grown up now

    Anyone know where I can buy a fuck Keir Starmer one?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,769

    DavidL said:

    I am just shocked, shocked I tell you: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65245065

    "It says that the UK is among a number of countries with special forces operating in Ukraine. According to the document, dated 23 March, the UK has the largest contingent (50), followed by Latvia (17), France (15), the US (14) and the Netherlands (1)."

    Hereford Boat Club scouting regatta locations. Nothing to see here….
    Zaporizhzhia Regatta, is going to replace Henley for 2024.
  • Options
    UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 821
    rkrkrk said:

    Unpopular said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't know the Scottish case, but in principle don't think a non-custodial sentence is always inappropriate. That should be for the judge to decide.

    Douglas Hurd famously said "Prison is an expensive way to make bad people worse" and pointed out that locking people up had only a short term effect. He was a rare Home Secretary who actually reduced the prison population.

    The USA has a quarter of the world's prison population. Is it safer? Not from what is written upthread.

    Largely agree but am a bit sceptical about judges doing the sentencing.

    They are just ex-lawyers right? They don't see the consequences of their mistakes, or even track whether people they let off lightly reoffended.

    Way out of my area of expertise, but I would have thought that some kind of sentencing board/panel with people who have worked in rehabilitation would be better than a judge.
    They're not always ex-lawyers. In England, Magistrates are lay and are voluntary roles. My understanding is that this comes with it's own issues, but most people are eligible to volunteer.
    Thanks, I didn't realise magistrates could do sentencing and send people to prison.
    Limited powers, they wouldn't be presiding over the kinds of cases that we've been discussing, but minor assaults, thefts etc are all in their jurisdiction. I believe Magistrates can impose a sentence of 6 months imprisonment.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,907
    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't know the Scottish case, but in principle don't think a non-custodial sentence is always inappropriate. That should be for the judge to decide.

    Douglas Hurd famously said "Prison is an expensive way to make bad people worse" and pointed out that locking people up had only a short term effect. He was a rare Home Secretary who actually reduced the prison population.

    The USA has a quarter of the world's prison population. Is it safer? Not from what is written upthread.

    It is very much a minority view but I think that the societal obsession with sending people to prison, much in evidence on PB, is evidence of how society is actually moving backwards and becoming less civilised; something also reflected in the appalling conditions in prisons, which people are generally indifferent about.

    But to move on from it you have to find demonstrably workable alternatives that people can be confident in. The problem is really that people don't have confidence in institutions like the probation service, the parole board, etc, because a lot of time they don't work. I think though that eventually technology (AI and surveillance) will transform offender management in the community.

    Prison should just be used for the management of dangerous and repeat offenders, not generally as a form of routine punishment. One of the good 'woke' ideas is prison abolition.
    I am not entirely sure that I am looking forward to a society where AI and technological surveillance transforms offender management. Do you really think such technology would stop there?

    And the problem with alternatives is that they just don't seem to work as this very recent headline shows: https://news.stv.tv/politics/over-100000-absences-from-community-sentences-insult-to-victims-scottish-conservatives-say

    People given community work as an alternative to prison are just not turning up in huge numbers.
    AI and surveillance are not going back in to the bottle. Facial recognition CCTV is already here and seems to have public support, however depressing that is. All that needs to happen is the state catching up with the private sector which it will do, albeit very slowly, reluctantly and gradually. But in terms of justice policy, I think that such technology will end up transforming things like the viability of house arrest and making sure that people adhere to restraining orders, things like that, so as to reduce the practical need for prison as a tool of security and public safety, and could also increase the effectiveness of community orders potentially, and consequently public confidence in them. It isn't something I would objectively say that I want to happen, but having read works like 'the age of surveillance capitalism' I just think it will happen anyway, and it could be deployed to useful ends, in this respect.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,903

    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone posted this video a few days ago. I love the bit where he says "This might be the best thing I've ever eaten. I'm not joking". Comedian Michael Spicer with "Half of British Television Always Starts Like This".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjnmzljtREk

    That would have been the perfect spoof if they hadn't Woked it up with the "white middle-aged male" dig, which is always the tale tale sign of a liberal leper thinking they're being edgy.

    Joanna Lumley and Romesh Ranganathan also do this, amongst many others.

    You and Leon see woke in everything. It's funny because lots are middle aged white men who do these programmes. Lots aren't as well. Nothing wrong with that or these type of programmes, just funny taking the mickey out of the format.

    People should chill and take offence less on both the woke and anti woke sides and enjoy the jokes. There are times to take offence and times when it is just a joke.
    Because it is Woke. The primary purpose of this skit by this guy wasn't just to be "funny" it was to signal how anti-racist and progressive he was to his peer group. That's why 'white middle-aged male' is the punchline - despite its blithe inaccuracy - and why it's mentioned all the time these days socially and professionally; it's used as a pejorative, and Woke covers it absolutely.

    It signals to me he's a socially insecure sheep - who doesn't know or care about the social division in race and gender he's laying with such comments - and only cares about himself and what people think of him socially, so I have no respect for it - in fact, I have borderline contempt.

    I feel much the same about defensive posts like this on top and those who like them.
    What snowflakery!
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,907
    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't know the Scottish case, but in principle don't think a non-custodial sentence is always inappropriate. That should be for the judge to decide.

    Douglas Hurd famously said "Prison is an expensive way to make bad people worse" and pointed out that locking people up had only a short term effect. He was a rare Home Secretary who actually reduced the prison population.

    The USA has a quarter of the world's prison population. Is it safer? Not from what is written upthread.

    It is very much a minority view but I think that the societal obsession with sending people to prison, much in evidence on PB, is evidence of how society is actually moving backwards and becoming less civilised; something also reflected in the appalling conditions in prisons, which people are generally indifferent about.

    But to move on from it you have to find demonstrably workable alternatives that people can be confident in. The problem is really that people don't have confidence in institutions like the probation service, the parole board, etc, because a lot of time they don't work. I think though that eventually technology (AI and surveillance) will transform offender management in the community.

    Prison should just be used for the management of dangerous and repeat offenders, not generally as a form of routine punishment. One of the good 'woke' ideas is prison abolition.
    I wouldn't call for abolition, but there is potentially a lot of funding for probation services, shortening time to trial and well supervised non-custodial sentences released by spending less on prisons.

    Good to have found an issue where I am more woke than @Foxy
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,912

    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone posted this video a few days ago. I love the bit where he says "This might be the best thing I've ever eaten. I'm not joking". Comedian Michael Spicer with "Half of British Television Always Starts Like This".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjnmzljtREk

    That would have been the perfect spoof if they hadn't Woked it up with the "white middle-aged male" dig, which is always the tale tale sign of a liberal leper thinking they're being edgy.

    Joanna Lumley and Romesh Ranganathan also do this, amongst many others.

    You and Leon see woke in everything. It's funny because lots are middle aged white men who do these programmes. Lots aren't as well. Nothing wrong with that or these type of programmes, just funny taking the mickey out of the format.

    People should chill and take offence less on both the woke and anti woke sides and enjoy the jokes. There are times to take offence and times when it is just a joke.
    Because it is Woke. The primary purpose of this skit by this guy wasn't just to be "funny" it was to signal how anti-racist and progressive he was to his peer group. That's why 'white middle-aged male' is the punchline - despite its blithe inaccuracy - and why it's mentioned all the time these days socially and professionally; it's used as a pejorative, and Woke covers it absolutely.

    It signals to me he's a socially insecure sheep - who doesn't know or care about the social division in race and gender he's laying with such comments - and only cares about himself and what people think of him socially, so I have no respect for it - in fact, I have borderline contempt.

    I feel much the same about defensive posts like this on top and those who like them.
    Gosh, you're reading so much into that video you make Jacques Derrida look like an amateur deconstructionist. And, of course, the wokest joke of all is that Michael Spicer is a white, middle-aged male. Fancy taking the piss out of yourself.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,300
    Just a reminder that the correct plural is Wokefinders General, should anyone need it.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,987

    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't know the Scottish case, but in principle don't think a non-custodial sentence is always inappropriate. That should be for the judge to decide.

    Douglas Hurd famously said "Prison is an expensive way to make bad people worse" and pointed out that locking people up had only a short term effect. He was a rare Home Secretary who actually reduced the prison population.

    The USA has a quarter of the world's prison population. Is it safer? Not from what is written upthread.

    Largely agree but am a bit sceptical about judges doing the sentencing.

    They are just ex-lawyers right? They don't see the consequences of their mistakes, or even track whether people they let off lightly reoffended.

    Way out of my area of expertise, but I would have thought that some kind of sentencing board/panel with people who have worked in rehabilitation would be better than a judge.
    Perhaps the jury, having been advised of the range of sentences, should make a recommendation to the judge? The judge can then accept or alter the recommendation, having given their reasons for doing so.
    Maybe... but I'm actually more concerned that judges don't have expertise, not that they aren't representative.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,575
    Driver said:

    Morning all.

    Good header as usual from Cyclefree. No mention of the 40%, of course, but that's only to be expected.

    I was particularly struck by this part:

    But if this is wrong and the under 25’s cannot be expected to understand that raping a child is wrong or bear the rigours of prison, why are we expecting them to vote, get a job, get married, become parents or even MPs? Does immaturity only matter when it comes to doing wrong?

    This inconsistency pervades politics generally. For instance, many of the same people who pushed for the age for buying lottery tickets and cigarettes to go up are also pushing for the voting age to go down.

    I did my A levels at a 6th form college. The classes included a number of adults redoing qualifications to get into university.

    One of them at 20 odd, had been in the Army in West Germany. Involved with Lance missiles, IIRC. He was apparently safe to be in charge (partly) of nuclear weapons.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,002
    edited April 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Also entirely off-topic. I have just received my first income from YouTube! OK so its £200 not £20,000. But it's growing...

    Congratulations! What’s your channel? PM if you don’t want it public, always happy to watch videos to help people earn money.
    I'm doing a Tesla channel called www.youtube.com/@JustGetATesla - I've had a Leaf, we have an Ioniq EV, I looked at various other EV options (Ioniq 5, EV6, Polestar 2) but kept coming to back to a Model Y. In the end "just get a Tesla" won the debate so I named the channel after that.

    I probably need to do a video about why I ruled out non-tesla brands. In essence:
    1. Efficiency. Only Tesla and Hyundai/Kia make an efficient EV drive train. Everyone else burns power and thus cuts range through inefficiency.
    2. Space. Designing a ground-up EV not being built in a factory that also builds ICE cars helps as you can be smart with packaging. No need for a motor/inverter stack under the bonnet in place of the engine as you get with practically every other EV brand
    3. Charging. Supercharging in the UK is significantly cheaper and faster than public charging. With 40 different charging networks its like the wild west out there, and on so many "rapid" chargers the delivered charging rate is nowhere near what it is advertised. Superchargers just work.
  • Options
    Has @HYUFD transitioned to lurking rather than posting? Last on here 20 minutes ago but hasn't posted since 3rd April.

    Come back HY! The Tories need a true believer now more than ever!
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,295

    Sandpit said:

    Also entirely off-topic. I have just received my first income from YouTube! OK so its £200 not £20,000. But it's growing...

    Congratulations! What’s your channel? PM if you don’t want it public, always happy to watch videos to help people earn money.
    I'm doing a Tesla channel called www.youtube.com/@JustGetATesla - I've had a Leaf, we have an Ioniq EV, I looked at various other EV options (Ioniq 5, EV6, Polestar 2) but kept coming to back to a Model Y. In the end "just get a Tesla" won the debate so I named the channel after that.

    I probably need to do a video about why I ruled out non-tesla brands. In essence:
    1. Efficiency. Only Tesla and Hyundai/Kia make an efficient EV drive train. Everyone else burns power and thus cuts range through inefficiency.

    Lucid have dethroned Tesla in efficiency at 4.5m/kWh
  • Options
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Also entirely off-topic. I have just received my first income from YouTube! OK so its £200 not £20,000. But it's growing...

    Congratulations! What’s your channel? PM if you don’t want it public, always happy to watch videos to help people earn money.
    I'm doing a Tesla channel called www.youtube.com/@JustGetATesla - I've had a Leaf, we have an Ioniq EV, I looked at various other EV options (Ioniq 5, EV6, Polestar 2) but kept coming to back to a Model Y. In the end "just get a Tesla" won the debate so I named the channel after that.

    I probably need to do a video about why I ruled out non-tesla brands. In essence:
    1. Efficiency. Only Tesla and Hyundai/Kia make an efficient EV drive train. Everyone else burns power and thus cuts range through inefficiency.

    Lucid have dethroned Tesla in efficiency at 4.5m/kWh
    Good! We need more ultra-efficient drive-trains, especially competing at the top end of the market. Otherwise Mercedes, BMW, Audi et al just add a bigger battery to disguise that their overly-grilled monstrosity is about as efficient as they look.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,874

    Has @HYUFD transitioned to lurking rather than posting? Last on here 20 minutes ago but hasn't posted since 3rd April.

    Come back HY! The Tories need a true believer now more than ever!

    He’s listed as being an “applicant”, whatever that means.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,372
    MaxPB said:

    Question for the car nerds on here, looking to get a city run around for my wife, it's got to be automatic, small and be able to take two children's car seats comfortably.

    I'm looking at the Audi A1/A3 is there some glaring issue with it that I should avoid and get something else?

    Go to the High Peak Autos channel on Youtube and search for Audi. The presenter is a used car dealer in one of the prettier parts of up north who invariably details what can go wrong with whatever model he is reviewing. He's also a better presenter than many of those on telly, imo.
    https://www.youtube.com/@HighPeakAutos/search?query=audi
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,897

    Nigelb said:

    This is not exactly a novel observation, but I was slightly taken aback by the BBC reporting Trump's obvious lies about the circumstances of his arrest as a 'revelation'.
    And that was the top headline on R4 news earlier this morning.

    Reporters will still instantly repeat literally anything Trump says—after eight long years of constant, unrepentant lies—and they’ll do it with no more criticism than a slightly arch tone.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1645949744823320577

    They don't see it as their role to determine truth or facts, but to present the most engaging mix of opinion and bullshit to gain as much attention as possible.

    Trump is just perfect for them.
    On a similar note, the BBC is virtually pleasuring itself to death over getting the ‘scoop’ of an interview with Musk. You will be unsurprised that the softest of balls were pitched at him.
    “What’s your favourite spoon?”
  • Options
    DougSeal said:

    Has @HYUFD transitioned to lurking rather than posting? Last on here 20 minutes ago but hasn't posted since 3rd April.

    Come back HY! The Tories need a true believer now more than ever!

    He’s listed as being an “applicant”, whatever that means.
    Is he a recipient of the Order of the Ban Hammer?
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    edited April 2023
    DougSeal said:

    Has @HYUFD transitioned to lurking rather than posting? Last on here 20 minutes ago but hasn't posted since 3rd April.

    Come back HY! The Tories need a true believer now more than ever!

    He’s listed as being an “applicant”, whatever that means.
    It removes posting privileges but it doesn't make you show up as banned, you have to go into the profile to find it. It happened to MoonRabbit in the past amongst others.

    I think RCS once said it gets triggered automatically in some circumstances.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,874

    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone posted this video a few days ago. I love the bit where he says "This might be the best thing I've ever eaten. I'm not joking". Comedian Michael Spicer with "Half of British Television Always Starts Like This".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjnmzljtREk

    That would have been the perfect spoof if they hadn't Woked it up with the "white middle-aged male" dig, which is always the tale tale sign of a liberal leper thinking they're being edgy.

    Joanna Lumley and Romesh Ranganathan also do this, amongst many others.

    You and Leon see woke in everything. It's funny because lots are middle aged white men who do these programmes. Lots aren't as well. Nothing wrong with that or these type of programmes, just funny taking the mickey out of the format.

    People should chill and take offence less on both the woke and anti woke sides and enjoy the jokes. There are times to take offence and times when it is just a joke.
    Because it is Woke. The primary purpose of this skit by this guy wasn't just to be "funny" it was to signal how anti-racist and progressive he was to his peer group. That's why 'white middle-aged male' is the punchline - despite its blithe inaccuracy - and why it's mentioned all the time these days socially and professionally; it's used as a pejorative, and Woke covers it absolutely.

    It signals to me he's a socially insecure sheep - who doesn't know or care about the social division in race and gender he's laying with such comments - and only cares about himself and what people think of him socially, so I have no respect for it - in fact, I have borderline contempt.

    I feel much the same about defensive posts like this on top and those who like them.
    F**k me…talk about overthinking. it’s a You Tube video FFS. I’m white and middle aged and that didn’t even occur to me when I saw this yesterday. You find this nebulous “woke” thing everywhere. Chill. It’s a well done video.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,295

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Also entirely off-topic. I have just received my first income from YouTube! OK so its £200 not £20,000. But it's growing...

    Congratulations! What’s your channel? PM if you don’t want it public, always happy to watch videos to help people earn money.
    I'm doing a Tesla channel called www.youtube.com/@JustGetATesla - I've had a Leaf, we have an Ioniq EV, I looked at various other EV options (Ioniq 5, EV6, Polestar 2) but kept coming to back to a Model Y. In the end "just get a Tesla" won the debate so I named the channel after that.

    I probably need to do a video about why I ruled out non-tesla brands. In essence:
    1. Efficiency. Only Tesla and Hyundai/Kia make an efficient EV drive train. Everyone else burns power and thus cuts range through inefficiency.

    Lucid have dethroned Tesla in efficiency at 4.5m/kWh
    Good! We need more ultra-efficient drive-trains, especially competing at the top end of the market. Otherwise Mercedes, BMW, Audi et al just add a bigger battery to disguise that their overly-grilled monstrosity is about as efficient as they look.
    Sarah n Tuned did a great review on the Lucid, seek it out. She is the best car YouTuber in the game. I don't know anybody else who can do engine rebuilds, fabrication, bodywork, paint, interiors, ECU tuning AND reviews; all to a very high standard.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,874

    DougSeal said:

    Has @HYUFD transitioned to lurking rather than posting? Last on here 20 minutes ago but hasn't posted since 3rd April.

    Come back HY! The Tories need a true believer now more than ever!

    He’s listed as being an “applicant”, whatever that means.
    Is he a recipient of the Order of the Ban Hammer?
    Don’t think so. I guess “applicant” is some kind of probation.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,425

    MaxPB said:

    Question for the car nerds on here, looking to get a city run around for my wife, it's got to be automatic, small and be able to take two children's car seats comfortably.

    I'm looking at the Audi A1/A3 is there some glaring issue with it that I should avoid and get something else?

    The A1 Sportline petrol is still my favourite small car having rented one for a holiday a while back. Absolutely brilliant to drive, and full of great toys.
    If you want a VW type car how about a Skoda?
    JAZZ
  • Options
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Has @HYUFD transitioned to lurking rather than posting? Last on here 20 minutes ago but hasn't posted since 3rd April.

    Come back HY! The Tories need a true believer now more than ever!

    He’s listed as being an “applicant”, whatever that means.
    Is he a recipient of the Order of the Ban Hammer?
    Don’t think so. I guess “applicant” is some kind of probation.
    A PB Sin Bin? Don't tell @Leon - he'll want to review the drinkies and ahem entertainment on offer. With the emphasis on sin ;)
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,372

    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone posted this video a few days ago. I love the bit where he says "This might be the best thing I've ever eaten. I'm not joking". Comedian Michael Spicer with "Half of British Television Always Starts Like This".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjnmzljtREk

    That would have been the perfect spoof if they hadn't Woked it up with the "white middle-aged male" dig, which is always the tale tale sign of a liberal leper thinking they're being edgy.

    Joanna Lumley and Romesh Ranganathan also do this, amongst many others.

    You and Leon see woke in everything. It's funny because lots are middle aged white men who do these programmes. Lots aren't as well. Nothing wrong with that or these type of programmes, just funny taking the mickey out of the format.

    People should chill and take offence less on both the woke and anti woke sides and enjoy the jokes. There are times to take offence and times when it is just a joke.
    Because it is Woke. The primary purpose of this skit by this guy wasn't just to be "funny" it was to signal how anti-racist and progressive he was to his peer group. That's why 'white middle-aged male' is the punchline - despite its blithe inaccuracy - and why it's mentioned all the time these days socially and professionally; it's used as a pejorative, and Woke covers it absolutely.

    It signals to me he's a socially insecure sheep - who doesn't know or care about the social division in race and gender he's laying with such comments - and only cares about himself and what people think of him socially, so I have no respect for it - in fact, I have borderline contempt.

    I feel much the same about defensive posts like this on top and those who like them.
    I must have watched the wrong video. The one I saw was a poor man's Philomena Cunk but there was nothing about progressive anti-racism.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjnmzljtREk
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,444
    edited April 2023
    Driver said:

    DougSeal said:

    Has @HYUFD transitioned to lurking rather than posting? Last on here 20 minutes ago but hasn't posted since 3rd April.

    Come back HY! The Tories need a true believer now more than ever!

    He’s listed as being an “applicant”, whatever that means.
    It removes posting privileges but it doesn't make you show up as banned, you have to go into the profile to find it. It happened to MoonRabbit in the past amongst others.

    I think RCS once said it gets triggered automatically in some circumstances.
    I seem to recall that the spam filter trips it. Single word posts, certain outbound links, trigger words.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,394

    Nigelb said:

    This is not exactly a novel observation, but I was slightly taken aback by the BBC reporting Trump's obvious lies about the circumstances of his arrest as a 'revelation'.
    And that was the top headline on R4 news earlier this morning.

    Reporters will still instantly repeat literally anything Trump says—after eight long years of constant, unrepentant lies—and they’ll do it with no more criticism than a slightly arch tone.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1645949744823320577

    They don't see it as their role to determine truth or facts, but to present the most engaging mix of opinion and bullshit to gain as much attention as possible.

    Trump is just perfect for them.
    On a similar note, the BBC is virtually pleasuring itself to death over getting the ‘scoop’ of an interview with Musk. You will be unsurprised that the softest of balls were pitched at him.
    “What’s your favourite spoon?”
    But did they really need to describe the new Twitter logo as 'adorable'?
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    edited April 2023

    Driver said:

    DougSeal said:

    Has @HYUFD transitioned to lurking rather than posting? Last on here 20 minutes ago but hasn't posted since 3rd April.

    Come back HY! The Tories need a true believer now more than ever!

    He’s listed as being an “applicant”, whatever that means.
    It removes posting privileges but it doesn't make you show up as banned, you have to go into the profile to find it. It happened to MoonRabbit in the past amongst others.

    I think RCS once said it gets triggered automatically in some circumstances.
    I seem to recall that the spam filter trips it. Single word posts, certain outbound links, trigger words.
    In which case it would make sense that there was some sort of notification and appeal process, especially for long-established posters with thousands of posts.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,425
    HYUFD has been away on family related matters. I think I read that his wife is a Vicar so Easter will have been very busy.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,394

    HYUFD has been away on family related matters. I think I read that his wife is a Vicar so Easter will have been very busy.

    ?

    I thought I'd read his husband was a vicar.
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    HYUFD has been away on family related matters. I think I read that his wife is a Vicar so Easter will have been very busy.

    He's showing as Member now, so hopefully we'll see him soon.
  • Options
    Driver said:

    HYUFD has been away on family related matters. I think I read that his wife is a Vicar so Easter will have been very busy.

    He's showing as Member now, so hopefully we'll see him soon.
    Good. I just want to see more members stay, and some who have departed / taken a break come back.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,874

    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone posted this video a few days ago. I love the bit where he says "This might be the best thing I've ever eaten. I'm not joking". Comedian Michael Spicer with "Half of British Television Always Starts Like This".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjnmzljtREk

    That would have been the perfect spoof if they hadn't Woked it up with the "white middle-aged male" dig, which is always the tale tale sign of a liberal leper thinking they're being edgy.

    Joanna Lumley and Romesh Ranganathan also do this, amongst many others.

    You and Leon see woke in everything. It's funny because lots are middle aged white men who do these programmes. Lots aren't as well. Nothing wrong with that or these type of programmes, just funny taking the mickey out of the format.

    People should chill and take offence less on both the woke and anti woke sides and enjoy the jokes. There are times to take offence and times when it is just a joke.
    Because it is Woke. The primary purpose of this skit by this guy wasn't just to be "funny" it was to signal how anti-racist and progressive he was to his peer group. That's why 'white middle-aged male' is the punchline - despite its blithe inaccuracy - and why it's mentioned all the time these days socially and professionally; it's used as a pejorative, and Woke covers it absolutely.

    It signals to me he's a socially insecure sheep - who doesn't know or care about the social division in race and gender he's laying with such comments - and only cares about himself and what people think of him socially, so I have no respect for it - in fact, I have borderline contempt.

    I feel much the same about defensive posts like this on top and those who like them.
    Defensive post - lol. Get a life, chill out. You get angry at everything and see stuff in everything, and even if it is there just enjoy it for what it is. Even if it is woke, laugh at it, don't get annoyed.

    I get annoyed at political correctness when it confronts me, but I enjoy the fun of taking the piss out of it. I'm actually a great fan of Jeremy Clarkson. He makes me laugh a lot and I have sympathy for his (part synthetic, part real) rants at stuff.

    Honestly the woke and anti woke are as bad as one another, just taking the fun out of life.
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,858
    Nigelb said:

    Just a reminder that the correct plural is Wokefinders General, should anyone need it.

    Is it not 'Casinos Royale'? :wink:

    (or 'Leons Gaga', perhaps)
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 1,998
    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    Question for the car nerds on here, looking to get a city run around for my wife, it's got to be automatic, small and be able to take two children's car seats comfortably.

    I'm looking at the Audi A1/A3 is there some glaring issue with it that I should avoid and get something else?

    A1 is the VAG MQB platform so it's essentially a VW Polo/Seat Ibiza with a hefty premium for no reason beyond the brand.

    It'll probably be alright but a Hyundai i20 will be far better value and probably better quality. Indo-Pacific pivot remember, stop being a FBPE drone.
    A used Nissan Leaf fits those criteria, if the reduced range due to battery age still fits the bill.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,874

    HYUFD has been away on family related matters. I think I read that his wife is a Vicar so Easter will have been very busy.

    Do you know @hyufd?

    Because I was a little concerned I checked and he is standing for District Council, so I'm guessing (but don't know) that he might just be keeping his head down.
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 1,998
    New thread!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,575
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone posted this video a few days ago. I love the bit where he says "This might be the best thing I've ever eaten. I'm not joking". Comedian Michael Spicer with "Half of British Television Always Starts Like This".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjnmzljtREk

    That would have been the perfect spoof if they hadn't Woked it up with the "white middle-aged male" dig, which is always the tale tale sign of a liberal leper thinking they're being edgy.

    Joanna Lumley and Romesh Ranganathan also do this, amongst many others.

    You and Leon see woke in everything. It's funny because lots are middle aged white men who do these programmes. Lots aren't as well. Nothing wrong with that or these type of programmes, just funny taking the mickey out of the format.

    People should chill and take offence less on both the woke and anti woke sides and enjoy the jokes. There are times to take offence and times when it is just a joke.
    Because it is Woke. The primary purpose of this skit by this guy wasn't just to be "funny" it was to signal how anti-racist and progressive he was to his peer group. That's why 'white middle-aged male' is the punchline - despite its blithe inaccuracy - and why it's mentioned all the time these days socially and professionally; it's used as a pejorative, and Woke covers it absolutely.

    It signals to me he's a socially insecure sheep - who doesn't know or care about the social division in race and gender he's laying with such comments - and only cares about himself and what people think of him socially, so I have no respect for it - in fact, I have borderline contempt.

    I feel much the same about defensive posts like this on top and those who like them.
    Defensive post - lol. Get a life, chill out. You get angry at everything and see stuff in everything, and even if it is there just enjoy it for what it is. Even if it is woke, laugh at it, don't get annoyed.

    I get annoyed at political correctness when it confronts me, but I enjoy the fun of taking the piss out of it. I'm actually a great fan of Jeremy Clarkson. He makes me laugh a lot and I have sympathy for his (part synthetic, part real) rants at stuff.

    Honestly the woke and anti woke are as bad as one another, just taking the fun out of life.
    One thing that is amusing is the way that certain subjects get - not walled off. But the answers are “complex” or “difficult”. Because otherwise the writer would be trapped into having to chose a side.

    And there are no sides in the march of Progress. Since rights can’t clash.
  • Options
    Phil said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    Question for the car nerds on here, looking to get a city run around for my wife, it's got to be automatic, small and be able to take two children's car seats comfortably.

    I'm looking at the Audi A1/A3 is there some glaring issue with it that I should avoid and get something else?

    A1 is the VAG MQB platform so it's essentially a VW Polo/Seat Ibiza with a hefty premium for no reason beyond the brand.

    It'll probably be alright but a Hyundai i20 will be far better value and probably better quality. Indo-Pacific pivot remember, stop being a FBPE drone.
    A used Nissan Leaf fits those criteria, if the reduced range due to battery age still fits the bill.
    My mate's wife had an early Renault Zoe. He grew to despise it. He always said it must have been powered by a couple of pound shop AAA batteries. In the cold, it used to have a range of under 60 miles and spent more time on the back of an RAC truck than it did on its own 4 wheels. He seriously considered jigging it to set itself on fire so his wife could get out of the contract or maybe get a new one. Mind you, this was maybe 10 years ago now, maybe 7?
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,280
    kjh said:

    HYUFD has been away on family related matters. I think I read that his wife is a Vicar so Easter will have been very busy.

    Do you know @hyufd?

    Because I was a little concerned I checked and he is standing for District Council, so I'm guessing (but don't know) that he might just be keeping his head down.
    If you’re looking in, @HYUFD, best wishes for the May election. Any other PBers standing in May? If so, best wishes for you as well!
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,496
    MaxPB said:

    Question for the car nerds on here, looking to get a city run around for my wife, it's got to be automatic, small and be able to take two children's car seats comfortably.

    I'm looking at the Audi A1/A3 is there some glaring issue with it that I should avoid and get something else?

    AUDI always has classy interior and the DSG auto is excellent, though the one I had previously was a Q5 but assume it is same unit if the 7 speed DSG.
    VW Golf is close as well and lower price.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,496
    fitalass said:
    Can you provide the audited accounts of the Scottish Conservative Party / Scottish Labour Party then.
    Tories cannot throw stones at anyone as they are a bunch of crooks, best they can do is allude to other parties being nearly as bad.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,496

    MaxPB said:

    Question for the car nerds on here, looking to get a city run around for my wife, it's got to be automatic, small and be able to take two children's car seats comfortably.

    I'm looking at the Audi A1/A3 is there some glaring issue with it that I should avoid and get something else?

    Go to the High Peak Autos channel on Youtube and search for Audi. The presenter is a used car dealer in one of the prettier parts of up north who invariably details what can go wrong with whatever model he is reviewing. He's also a better presenter than many of those on telly, imo.
    https://www.youtube.com/@HighPeakAutos/search?query=audi
    He is brilliant, his videos are great, you should look at his other stuff, he does flats up as well.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,118

    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone posted this video a few days ago. I love the bit where he says "This might be the best thing I've ever eaten. I'm not joking". Comedian Michael Spicer with "Half of British Television Always Starts Like This".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjnmzljtREk

    That would have been the perfect spoof if they hadn't Woked it up with the "white middle-aged male" dig, which is always the tale tale sign of a liberal leper thinking they're being edgy.

    Joanna Lumley and Romesh Ranganathan also do this, amongst many others.

    You and Leon see woke in everything. It's funny because lots are middle aged white men who do these programmes. Lots aren't as well. Nothing wrong with that or these type of programmes, just funny taking the mickey out of the format.

    People should chill and take offence less on both the woke and anti woke sides and enjoy the jokes. There are times to take offence and times when it is just a joke.
    Because it is Woke. The primary purpose of this skit by this guy wasn't just to be "funny" it was to signal how anti-racist and progressive he was to his peer group. That's why 'white middle-aged male' is the punchline - despite its blithe inaccuracy - and why it's mentioned all the time these days socially and professionally; it's used as a pejorative, and Woke covers it absolutely.

    It signals to me he's a socially insecure sheep - who doesn't know or care about the social division in race and gender he's laying with such comments - and only cares about himself and what people think of him socially, so I have no respect for it - in fact, I have borderline contempt.

    I feel much the same about defensive posts like this on top and those who like them.
    Gosh, you're reading so much into that video you make Jacques Derrida look like an amateur deconstructionist. And, of course, the wokest joke of all is that Michael Spicer is a white, middle-aged male. Fancy taking the piss out of yourself.
    That's not inconsistent at all.

    He's saying he's not one of those white middle-aged males.

    It's all about cover.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,489
    edited April 2023
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Question for the car nerds on here, looking to get a city run around for my wife, it's got to be automatic, small and be able to take two children's car seats comfortably.

    I'm looking at the Audi A1/A3 is there some glaring issue with it that I should avoid and get something else?

    Go to the High Peak Autos channel on Youtube and search for Audi. The presenter is a used car dealer in one of the prettier parts of up north who invariably details what can go wrong with whatever model he is reviewing. He's also a better presenter than many of those on telly, imo.
    https://www.youtube.com/@HighPeakAutos/search?query=audi
    He is brilliant, his videos are great, you should look at his other stuff, he does flats up as well.
    I think the main issue with an Audi is that you get 90-95% of the same tech in a VW or Skoda for a lot less investment.

    And in your public reputation may be mud, given how BMW / Audi / Mercedes (plus Land Rover), and to an extent VW, are the cars of the antisocial driver, and earlier, stolen or cloned ones seem to be the vehicles of choice for various types of scrote.
This discussion has been closed.