The striking thing is how much the Tory MPs managed to make Johnson squirm today.
They will rap him on the knuckles but they won't vote to suspend him for fear of deselection by their local Conservative Associations
If Johnson is not properly censured there will be a national outrage. I am not sure you understand this.
There will be a national outrage from people not voting Conservative or RefUK but Tory MPs don't care about them as they have near zero chance of voting Conservative at the next general election anyway and they don't form the membership of their local Conservative Association who will decide whether or not to reselect them
There will be national rage from this conservative supporter, and your descent into attempts of blackmail just affirms you are still very much in Johnson's camp
You voted Blair in 1997 and 2001 and have wavered away from the Conservatives pre Rishi anyway. The Conservatives would lose more votes to RefUK enabling a recall of Boris than they would lose to LAB or the LDs not doing so. At most a few days to a week suspension maximum
I'm not sure I agree, but you do highlight Sunak's dilemma. Part of the improvement in Conservative ratings has come about because Sunak has managed a neat triangulation of pragmatists and the Farage-curious. For every bit of sensible right-wing government (Windsor, for example) there has been a loudly-tossed bit of red meat to keep the less sensible on board (we will send to boat people somewhere, even if nowhere wants them). It's a good trick if you can do it, but it's going to be hard to keep it up until the election.
There is a risk of a Boris-fan backlash if he ceases to be an MP. But both his antics before the committee and the derisory ERG vote on Windsor make BoJo look less dangerous now than this morning.
About right. But, IMHO, the One Nation Tories now lost to the Cons will stay lost as long as meaningless, immoral and illegal nostrums are presented to us as policy. Sunak should be brave.
The number of so called 'One Nation Tories' who are not already still voting Tory and would switch from Labour or the LDs to the Conservatives if Boris was suspended for 10 days or more, or who would defect from the Tories if he was not can be counted on one hand.
The number of current Conservative voters and RefUK voters Rishi needs to win back however who would shift to RefUK if Boris was suspended for 10 days or more enabling a recall is much greater than those in the first paragraph
In your dreams
Time for you to admit you have never reconciled losing Johnson and your claim you support Sunak is as disingenuous as ever
There's so much happening on that page I almost cannot take it.
"Thought for the Day: And this guy had the nuclear codes?"
Think about it. The Daily Star goes fishing for the same pound as The Sun. Their political positions couldn't be different - The Star says what its readers are thinking, The Scum tries to tell its readers what it wants them to think...
I wonder how Boris really did today? I haven't seen the testimony, very busy day, and don't plan to. I hate cringey embarrassing things. Going by PB, those who were outraged with the barefaced lies were always going to be. Since there was no collapse and walk out, but also nobody saying 'he made a good point there', I'd say he did OK on the wicket he had.
He was frankly embarrassing and certainly sealed his fate
He will be found guilty and I expect a unanimous verdict with a sanction that could even see a recall petition
One thing I would say in defence of CGT being generally lower than income taxes is that gains are not the same thing as income. What I'm less on clear is how people go abut disguising their income as gains in order to reduce their tax bill.
We hire expensive accountants and lawyers who come up with very good tax minimisation strategies.
Yeah but how do they actually do it? Set up a company, pay themselves through it and then sell it? To whom, exactly?
Depends on what your end goal is.
My ultimate strategy is to make sure my kids are well looked after for life.
Their only blood relatives around are me and my parents who are approaching their 70s.
Whilst it's instinctive to wish to ensure one's offspring 'are well looked after for life', wouldn't it be better for them, for society, and for the world at large if they looked after themselves, made their way in life on their own merits, sank or swam entirely by their own efforts?
I've told them what I was told as a child, work hard at school and university and you can achieve anything.
Unlike me, they are going to end up with at least £50k worth of debts just to go to university.
Even if they become successful in their education and occupations, they are unlikely to be able to buy decent houses, which is why I've bought them houses now.
I just want them to have the opportunities that I had, which was given to me by parents who wanted nothing but the best for me.
On the housing front, how do you know where they might want to live ?
See they all told Sue but Sue's a slag who's in with Kier and they never told Jake and Nadine cos they don't like her face, and Rishi never said nothing yeah but no but...
On topic, my impression is that he's screwed, and looking at a something like a six week suspension (and, inevitably, recall petition).
Not massively confident on that prediction, I must say, but maybe 60%.
Enough Tories on the panel were extremely skeptical, and his performance was poor. Plus the severity for a Commons nerd is high and I can't see this as tap on the wrist territory.
I think people grossly underestimate the likely penalty if they find against him. He's gone all in here and actually made it really hard to classify as minor. I just don't see the "guilty and five days suspension" thing that some journos are touting as credible. I actually find not guilty more likely than guilty but trivial.
On the Commons vote on accepting the report, again I think people overestimate support for Johnson. Post-Paterson, I think plenty enough Tories beyond the usual Never Johnson mob will just say "my hands are tied - let him stand in a by-election if he wants".
One thing I would say in defence of CGT being generally lower than income taxes is that gains are not the same thing as income. What I'm less on clear is how people go abut disguising their income as gains in order to reduce their tax bill.
We hire expensive accountants and lawyers who come up with very good tax minimisation strategies.
Yeah but how do they actually do it? Set up a company, pay themselves through it and then sell it? To whom, exactly?
Depends on what your end goal is.
My ultimate strategy is to make sure my kids are well looked after for life.
Their only blood relatives around are me and my parents who are approaching their 70s.
Whilst it's instinctive to wish to ensure one's offspring 'are well looked after for life', wouldn't it be better for them, for society, and for the world at large if they looked after themselves, made their way in life on their own merits, sank or swam entirely by their own efforts?
I've told them what I was told as a child, work hard at school and university and you can achieve anything.
Unlike me, they are going to end up with at least £50k worth of debts just to go to university.
Even if they become successful in their education and occupations, they are unlikely to be able to buy decent houses, which is why I've bought them houses now.
I just want them to have the opportunities that I had, which was given to me by parents who wanted nothing but the best for me.
On the housing front, how do you know where they might want to live ?
I don't.
They can sell it and use the proceeds to buy it somewhere closer to where they want to live.
I'm working on the assumption that house prices will continue to exceed salaries over the next 20 years and to a lesser extent outstrip the FTSE.
The striking thing is how much the Tory MPs managed to make Johnson squirm today.
They will rap him on the knuckles but they won't vote to suspend him for fear of deselection by their local Conservative Associations
If Johnson is not properly censured there will be a national outrage. I am not sure you understand this.
There will be a national outrage from people not voting Conservative or RefUK but Tory MPs don't care about them as they have near zero chance of voting Conservative at the next general election anyway and they don't form the membership of their local Conservative Association who will decide whether or not to reselect them
There will be national rage from this conservative supporter, and your descent into attempts of blackmail just affirms you are still very much in Johnson's camp
You voted Blair in 1997 and 2001 and have wavered away from the Conservatives pre Rishi anyway. The Conservatives would lose more votes to RefUK enabling a recall of Boris than they would lose to LAB or the LDs not doing so. At most a few days to a week suspension maximum
I'm not sure I agree, but you do highlight Sunak's dilemma. Part of the improvement in Conservative ratings has come about because Sunak has managed a neat triangulation of pragmatists and the Farage-curious. For every bit of sensible right-wing government (Windsor, for example) there has been a loudly-tossed bit of red meat to keep the less sensible on board (we will send to boat people somewhere, even if nowhere wants them). It's a good trick if you can do it, but it's going to be hard to keep it up until the election.
There is a risk of a Boris-fan backlash if he ceases to be an MP. But both his antics before the committee and the derisory ERG vote on Windsor make BoJo look less dangerous now than this morning.
About right. But, IMHO, the One Nation Tories now lost to the Cons will stay lost as long as meaningless, immoral and illegal nostrums are presented to us as policy. Sunak should be brave.
The number of so called 'One Nation Tories' who are not already still voting Tory and would switch from Labour or the LDs to the Conservatives if Boris was suspended for 10 days or more, or who would defect from the Tories if he was not can be counted on one hand.
The number of current Conservative voters and RefUK voters Rishi needs to win back however who would shift to RefUK if Boris was suspended for 10 days or more enabling a recall is much greater than those in the first paragraph
In your dreams
Time for you to admit you have never reconciled losing Johnson and your claim you support Sunak is as disingenuous as ever
The fact is Sunak did not win the membership vote and has leaked voters to RefUK and DK since he became PM even if he has regained a few from Labour and the LDs since he replaced Truss.
However he needs both of the above groups to vote Conservative in 2024 to have even a chance of winning the next general election
Been working all day so missed all of the "excitement". Oh well, I am sure I will cope, somehow.
Have you ever dealt with a four/five year old whose hands and face are covered with chocolate who then spend the next 4 hours denying they haven't eaten the missing sweeties?
That's what watching Boris Johnson today was like.
The striking thing is how much the Tory MPs managed to make Johnson squirm today.
They will rap him on the knuckles but they won't vote to suspend him for fear of deselection by their local Conservative Associations
If Johnson is not properly censured there will be a national outrage. I am not sure you understand this.
There will be a national outrage from people not voting Conservative or RefUK but Tory MPs don't care about them as they have near zero chance of voting Conservative at the next general election anyway and they don't form the membership of their local Conservative Association who will decide whether or not to reselect them
There will be national rage from this conservative supporter, and your descent into attempts of blackmail just affirms you are still very much in Johnson's camp
You voted Blair in 1997 and 2001 and have wavered away from the Conservatives pre Rishi anyway. The Conservatives would lose more votes to RefUK enabling a recall of Boris than they would lose to LAB or the LDs not doing so. At most a few days to a week suspension maximum
I'm not sure I agree, but you do highlight Sunak's dilemma. Part of the improvement in Conservative ratings has come about because Sunak has managed a neat triangulation of pragmatists and the Farage-curious. For every bit of sensible right-wing government (Windsor, for example) there has been a loudly-tossed bit of red meat to keep the less sensible on board (we will send to boat people somewhere, even if nowhere wants them). It's a good trick if you can do it, but it's going to be hard to keep it up until the election.
There is a risk of a Boris-fan backlash if he ceases to be an MP. But both his antics before the committee and the derisory ERG vote on Windsor make BoJo look less dangerous now than this morning.
About right. But, IMHO, the One Nation Tories now lost to the Cons will stay lost as long as meaningless, immoral and illegal nostrums are presented to us as policy. Sunak should be brave.
The number of so called 'One Nation Tories' who are not already still voting Tory and would switch from Labour or the LDs to the Conservatives if Boris was suspended for 10 days or more, or who would defect from the Tories if he was not can be counted on one hand.
The number of current Conservative voters and RefUK voters Rishi needs to win back however who would shift to RefUK if Boris was suspended for 10 days or more enabling a recall is much greater than those in the first paragraph
In your dreams
Time for you to admit you have never reconciled losing Johnson and your claim you support Sunak is as disingenuous as ever
The fact is Sunak did not win the membership vote and has leaked voters to RefUK since he became PM even if he has regained a few from Labour and the LDs since he replaced Truss.
However he needs both of the above groups to vote Conservative in 2024 to have even a chance of winning the next general election
It is over for Johnson and the ERG and today was the day Sunak took control of the direction of the party towards the next GE
The striking thing is how much the Tory MPs managed to make Johnson squirm today.
They will rap him on the knuckles but they won't vote to suspend him for fear of deselection by their local Conservative Associations
If Johnson is not properly censured there will be a national outrage. I am not sure you understand this.
There will be a national outrage from people not voting Conservative or RefUK but Tory MPs don't care about them as they have near zero chance of voting Conservative at the next general election anyway and they don't form the membership of their local Conservative Association who will decide whether or not to reselect them
There will be national rage from this conservative supporter, and your descent into attempts of blackmail just affirms you are still very much in Johnson's camp
You voted Blair in 1997 and 2001 and have wavered away from the Conservatives pre Rishi anyway. The Conservatives would lose more votes to RefUK enabling a recall of Boris than they would lose to LAB or the LDs not doing so. At most a few days to a week suspension maximum
I'm not sure I agree, but you do highlight Sunak's dilemma. Part of the improvement in Conservative ratings has come about because Sunak has managed a neat triangulation of pragmatists and the Farage-curious. For every bit of sensible right-wing government (Windsor, for example) there has been a loudly-tossed bit of red meat to keep the less sensible on board (we will send to boat people somewhere, even if nowhere wants them). It's a good trick if you can do it, but it's going to be hard to keep it up until the election.
There is a risk of a Boris-fan backlash if he ceases to be an MP. But both his antics before the committee and the derisory ERG vote on Windsor make BoJo look less dangerous now than this morning.
About right. But, IMHO, the One Nation Tories now lost to the Cons will stay lost as long as meaningless, immoral and illegal nostrums are presented to us as policy. Sunak should be brave.
The number of so called 'One Nation Tories' who are not already still voting Tory and would switch from Labour or the LDs to the Conservatives if Boris was suspended for 10 days or more, or who would defect from the Tories if he was not can be counted on one hand.
The number of current Conservative voters and RefUK voters Rishi needs to win back however who would shift to RefUK if Boris was suspended for 10 days or more enabling a recall is much greater than those in the first paragraph
In your dreams
Time for you to admit you have never reconciled losing Johnson and your claim you support Sunak is as disingenuous as ever
The fact is Sunak did not win the membership vote and has leaked voters to RefUK since he became PM even if he has regained a few from Labour and the LDs since he replaced Truss.
However he needs both of the above groups to vote Conservative in 2024 to have even a chance of winning the next general election
It is over for Johnson and the ERG and today was the day Sunak took control of the direction of the party towards the next GE
You and I know that, but nobody seems to have told the Express yet;
Want to see how the Mail are handling it; the Telegraph do seem to have gone into neutral mode.
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
The striking thing is how much the Tory MPs managed to make Johnson squirm today.
They will rap him on the knuckles but they won't vote to suspend him for fear of deselection by their local Conservative Associations
If Johnson is not properly censured there will be a national outrage. I am not sure you understand this.
The censure is officially for misleading parliament, but the nation demands punishment the way he, and others (let’s be open, it wasn’t just Johnson) allowed No 10 staff to do things that were banned for everyone else in the country. I’m still astonished and saddened that we refused to let spouses etc in to see dying husbands/wives. Yes it would have increased risk marginally. But the inhumanity of it.
Clearly if you were involved in deciding those rules the public expected you to live like Trappist monks. That was the quid pro quo for such unbelievably strict covid rules around care home visits and so forth.
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
The striking thing is how much the Tory MPs managed to make Johnson squirm today.
They will rap him on the knuckles but they won't vote to suspend him for fear of deselection by their local Conservative Associations
If Johnson is not properly censured there will be a national outrage. I am not sure you understand this.
There will be a national outrage from people not voting Conservative or RefUK but Tory MPs don't care about them as they have near zero chance of voting Conservative at the next general election anyway and they don't form the membership of their local Conservative Association who will decide whether or not to reselect them
There will be national rage from this conservative supporter, and your descent into attempts of blackmail just affirms you are still very much in Johnson's camp
You voted Blair in 1997 and 2001 and have wavered away from the Conservatives pre Rishi anyway. The Conservatives would lose more votes to RefUK enabling a recall of Boris than they would lose to LAB or the LDs not doing so. At most a few days to a week suspension maximum
I'm not sure I agree, but you do highlight Sunak's dilemma. Part of the improvement in Conservative ratings has come about because Sunak has managed a neat triangulation of pragmatists and the Farage-curious. For every bit of sensible right-wing government (Windsor, for example) there has been a loudly-tossed bit of red meat to keep the less sensible on board (we will send to boat people somewhere, even if nowhere wants them). It's a good trick if you can do it, but it's going to be hard to keep it up until the election.
There is a risk of a Boris-fan backlash if he ceases to be an MP. But both his antics before the committee and the derisory ERG vote on Windsor make BoJo look less dangerous now than this morning.
About right. But, IMHO, the One Nation Tories now lost to the Cons will stay lost as long as meaningless, immoral and illegal nostrums are presented to us as policy. Sunak should be brave.
The number of so called 'One Nation Tories' who are not already still voting Tory and would switch from Labour or the LDs to the Conservatives if Boris was suspended for 10 days or more, or who would defect from the Tories if he was not can be counted on one hand.
The number of current Conservative voters and RefUK voters Rishi needs to win back however who would shift to RefUK if Boris was suspended for 10 days or more enabling a recall is much greater than those in the first paragraph
In your dreams
Time for you to admit you have never reconciled losing Johnson and your claim you support Sunak is as disingenuous as ever
The fact is Sunak did not win the membership vote and has leaked voters to RefUK since he became PM even if he has regained a few from Labour and the LDs since he replaced Truss.
However he needs both of the above groups to vote Conservative in 2024 to have even a chance of winning the next general election
It is over for Johnson and the ERG and today was the day Sunak took control of the direction of the party towards the next GE
You and I know that, but nobody seems to have told the Express yet;
Want to see how the Mail are handling it; the Telegraph do seem to have gone into neutral mode.
The second story in the telegraph is pretty damming of Johnson and his brexit dream
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
What's the deal with pilots? Why aren't we seeing a vast increase in plane crashes? Or is that being covered up? Ordinary folk would be more concerned about bus drivers. Out of touch elite problems.
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
There's so much happening on that page I almost cannot take it.
"Thought for the Day: And this guy had the nuclear codes?"
Think about it. The Daily Star goes fishing for the same pound as The Sun. Their political positions couldn't be different - The Star says what its readers are thinking, The Scum tries to tell its readers what it wants them to think...
The Star has a great front page so often, they have a genius for it.
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
Oh she did. The most successful journalists lie for money. There are a disproportionate amount of them at the top of politics. Particularly, but not exclusively in the Tory Party.
Oh she did. The most successful journalists lie for money. There are a disproportionate amount of them at the top of politics. Particularly, but not exclusively in the Tory Party.
The British Journalist by Humbert Wolfe
You cannot hope to bribe or twist, thank God! the British journalist.
But, seeing what the (wo)man will do unbribed, there's no occasion to.
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
Been working all day so missed all of the "excitement". Oh well, I am sure I will cope, somehow.
Have you ever dealt with a four/five year old whose hands and face are covered with chocolate who then spend the next 4 hours denying they haven't eaten the missing sweeties?
That's what watching Boris Johnson today was like.
How much chocolate has this kid eaten today? He’s filling these threads like Augustus Gloop filled a pipe.
Worrying news about whats happening to pilots now.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
Agile? That is Boris Johnson they're talking about, is it?
See my edit
Wasn't a dig at you at all. Merely at the Mail. They've lost touch with the zeitgeist. That's the Daily Star's domain now.
Erm… No. The Star just got sold to Mirror Group a couple of years ago and moved to the left politically like it’s parent, though as stated doesn’t do that much politics because its readers aren’t that interested.
Court rejects Trump’s urgent bid to keep lawyer’s records from special counsel The ruling effectively permits the Justice Department to circumvent Trump’s attorney-client privilege after a lower-court judge found that the documents likely contain evidence of a crime. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/22/trump-court-rejects-special-counsel-00088403
The "crime-fraud" exception to attorney client privilege invoked.
NB: it does now feel like we can say the Tories are on about 30% (the old late 90s “floor”). It really isn’t that hard to see Sunak doing 35% in some polls by the end of Party Conference season, and Labour down to 40%.
If he achieves something and the media turn on Starmer for a “come back” narrative, which I think they are desperate to do.
Opinium poll on Peston tonight has the Conservatives on 32% if Boris returned as leader compared to 31% now under Rishi.
Labour are unchanged on 43% against both
1% isn't much of a difference!
Yes and I suspect the 1% Boris put on would be offset by more tactical voting against him than Rishi would get.
It does show however that Rishi needs to get Boris supporters in his tent if he is to have a chance of winning the next general election or even just getting a hung parliament
The striking thing is how much the Tory MPs managed to make Johnson squirm today.
They will rap him on the knuckles but they won't vote to suspend him for fear of deselection by their local Conservative Associations
Few people care to defend Johnson, anymore. He's finished.
But he needs his place in history.
Cammo was the first PM for 200 years to lose a vote on military action, plus the first to lose a referendum. May broke some sort of record with all her Commons defeats on her Brexit deal as well as losing the biggest ever vote share between campaign launch and polling day. Truss was the shortest ever.
So only fitting that the clown becomes the first to be thrown out.
Opinium poll on Peston tonight has the Conservatives on 32% if Boris returned as leader compared to 31% now under Rishi.
Labour are unchanged on 43% against both
1% isn't much of a difference!
Yes and I suspect the 1% Boris put on would be offset by more tactical voting against him than Rishi would get.
It does show however that Rishi needs to get Boris supporters in his tent if he is to have a chance of winning the next general election or even just getting a hung parliament
Not at any price
Sunak has given the HOC a free vote on the decision and there are plenty of conservative mps who will support the verdict despite your desperate attempts at blackmail
Agile? That is Boris Johnson they're talking about, is it?
See my edit
Wasn't a dig at you at all. Merely at the Mail. They've lost touch with the zeitgeist. That's the Daily Star's domain now.
Erm… No. The Star just got sold to Mirror Group a couple of years ago and moved to the left politically like it’s parent, though as stated doesn’t do that much politics because its readers aren’t that interested.
It's in touch with the zeitgeist. Like the Sun in the 80's. The zeitgeist moves.
Opinium poll on Peston tonight has the Conservatives on 32% if Boris returned as leader compared to 31% now under Rishi.
Labour are unchanged on 43% against both
1% isn't much of a difference!
Yes and I suspect the 1% Boris put on would be offset by more tactical voting against him than Rishi would get.
It does show however that Rishi needs to get Boris supporters in his tent if he is to have a chance of winning the next general election or even just getting a hung parliament
But he cannot simply kowtow to their demands to do so. If the Committee recommends sanctions Rishi could vote to ignore it, but that is not without major cost, that same action started a scandal for Boris, and it might not even work because rebels could see it over the line. So he'd have compromised himself for nothing, since Boris and his fans wouldn't give him credit for trying to save him.
Opinium poll on Peston tonight has the Conservatives on 32% if Boris returned as leader compared to 31% now under Rishi.
Labour are unchanged on 43% against both
Give it up - you are sounding pathetic
Well, I mean, if that is what the poll says it is what it is. Can't understand it much myself.
I think @HYUFD is likely correct that one difference is Boris would create more tactical voting because of those who hate him (see every post on here). I can also see why he might still reach some bits of the country other Tories can’t reach (hence maybe his 32% is different people to Rishi’s 31). Both things can be true, but on balance he’s clearly now a liability for them.
Opinium poll on Peston tonight has the Conservatives on 32% if Boris returned as leader compared to 31% now under Rishi.
Labour are unchanged on 43% against both
1% isn't much of a difference!
Yes and I suspect the 1% Boris put on would be offset by more tactical voting against him than Rishi would get.
It does show however that Rishi needs to get Boris supporters in his tent if he is to have a chance of winning the next general election or even just getting a hung parliament
But he cannot simply kowtow to their demands to do so. If the Committee recommends sanctions Rishi could vote to ignore it, but that is not without major cost, that same action started a scandal for Boris, and it might not even work because rebels could see it over the line. So he'd have compromised himself for nothing, since Boris and his fans wouldn't give him credit for trying to save him.
Many conservative mps will fear the electorate if they reject the findings and de facto support Johnson, and for that reason I expect the HOC will endorse whatever verdict is reached
Agile? That is Boris Johnson they're talking about, is it?
See my edit
Wasn't a dig at you at all. Merely at the Mail. They've lost touch with the zeitgeist. That's the Daily Star's domain now.
Erm… No. The Star just got sold to Mirror Group a couple of years ago and moved to the left politically like it’s parent, though as stated doesn’t do that much politics because its readers aren’t that interested.
It's in touch with the zeitgeist. Like the Sun in the 80's. The zeitgeist moves.
Nah. It has about five readers, but a genius headline writer who is in touch with a chunk of Twitter.
The striking thing is how much the Tory MPs managed to make Johnson squirm today.
Costa and Jenkin seemed rather hostile, Walker less so, but hasn't he been an earlier critic?
If Johnson doesn't get the spanking he deserves, I suspect the voters will, at least in the short term, hurt the Tories.
I know I am a Johnson cynic, as my PB off-topics demonstrate, but today Johnson was an utter disgrace.
Having listened to the whole hearing I simply cannot see any of the conservative mps backing Johnson
I expect a unanimous decision of guilty and a real possibility of a recall petition
if it was just a case of innocent or guilty I would 100% agree with you Big G. But still here the argument, as I tried to explain yesterday, these are not criminal proceedings, like a courtroom with a judge and jury. In criminal situation it’s unambiguous what duty calls for.
But this is not a criminal situation but a political one, where duty looks in more than one direction. There is more than enough cover enabling them to fulfil one duty with a guilty verdict, but fulfil their other duty with a not so severe sentence. That’s where the betting money lies tonight, to answer the headers question,
Agile? That is Boris Johnson they're talking about, is it?
See my edit
Wasn't a dig at you at all. Merely at the Mail. They've lost touch with the zeitgeist. That's the Daily Star's domain now.
Erm… No. The Star just got sold to Mirror Group a couple of years ago and moved to the left politically like it’s parent, though as stated doesn’t do that much politics because its readers aren’t that interested.
It's in touch with the zeitgeist. Like the Sun in the 80's. The zeitgeist moves.
Nah. It has about five readers, but a genius headline writer who is in touch with a chunk of Twitter.
The striking thing is how much the Tory MPs managed to make Johnson squirm today.
Costa and Jenkin seemed rather hostile, Walker less so, but hasn't he been an earlier critic?
If Johnson doesn't get the spanking he deserves, I suspect the voters will, at least in the short term, hurt the Tories.
I know I am a Johnson cynic, as my PB off-topics demonstrate, but today Johnson was an utter disgrace.
Having listened to the whole hearing I simply cannot see any of the conservative mps backing Johnson
I expect a unanimous decision of guilty and a real possibility of a recall petition
if it was just a case of innocent or guilty I would 100% agree with you Big G. But still here the argument, as I tried to explain yesterday, these are not criminal proceedings, like a courtroom with a judge and jury. In criminal situation it’s unambiguous what duty calls for.
But this is not a criminal situation but a political one, where duty looks in more than one direction. There is more than enough cover enabling them to fulfil one duty with a guilty verdict, but fulfil their other duty with a not so severe sentence. That’s where the betting money lies tonight, to answer the headers question,
Nope. The incredulity of the committee at his answers. Beyond belief. Plus for the Tories on the committee it’s clear Johnson has destroyed the parties chances in 2024. If he had fronted up when first asked, none of this would have happened.
The striking thing is how much the Tory MPs managed to make Johnson squirm today.
Costa and Jenkin seemed rather hostile, Walker less so, but hasn't he been an earlier critic?
If Johnson doesn't get the spanking he deserves, I suspect the voters will, at least in the short term, hurt the Tories.
I know I am a Johnson cynic, as my PB off-topics demonstrate, but today Johnson was an utter disgrace.
Having listened to the whole hearing I simply cannot see any of the conservative mps backing Johnson
I expect a unanimous decision of guilty and a real possibility of a recall petition
if it was just a case of innocent or guilty I would 100% agree with you Big G. But still here the argument, as I tried to explain yesterday, these are not criminal proceedings, like a courtroom with a judge and jury. In criminal situation it’s unambiguous what duty calls for.
But this is not a criminal situation but a political one, where duty looks in more than one direction. There is more than enough cover enabling them to fulfil one duty with a guilty verdict, but fulfil their other duty with a not so severe sentence. That’s where the betting money lies tonight, to answer the headers question,
While I agree I cannot think anyone who listened to that hearing can come to any other conclusion that he did mislead the HOC
The question of sentence in my opinion will be high and possible recall is certainly a real prospect
The striking thing is how much the Tory MPs managed to make Johnson squirm today.
Costa and Jenkin seemed rather hostile, Walker less so, but hasn't he been an earlier critic?
If Johnson doesn't get the spanking he deserves, I suspect the voters will, at least in the short term, hurt the Tories.
I know I am a Johnson cynic, as my PB off-topics demonstrate, but today Johnson was an utter disgrace.
Having listened to the whole hearing I simply cannot see any of the conservative mps backing Johnson
I expect a unanimous decision of guilty and a real possibility of a recall petition
if it was just a case of innocent or guilty I would 100% agree with you Big G. But still here the argument, as I tried to explain yesterday, these are not criminal proceedings, like a courtroom with a judge and jury. In criminal situation it’s unambiguous what duty calls for.
But this is not a criminal situation but a political one, where duty looks in more than one direction. There is more than enough cover enabling them to fulfil one duty with a guilty verdict, but fulfil their other duty with a not so severe sentence. That’s where the betting money lies tonight, to answer the headers question,
I can see the reasoning even without political pressure for a lighter sanction. But Boris supporters may be undermining the chances of that by outright lobbying the committee members with 'do it and you'll lose your seat, traitor!' type messaging.
It can be counter productive because it means the decision maker cannot hide, even to themselves, what might be driving a lesser position, they could feel the politics being too prominent and react against the assumption that should be their only consideration.
Kettle: What mattered… was that a stake should be driven through the heart of the beast. And, to a quite unexpected degree, it was.
..the Commons privileges committee confounded any assumptions that they would be partisan pushovers. Instead, the MPs calmly and devastatingly sliced and diced Johnson and the evidence about Downing Street Covid gatherings he has given this week, in print and now in person. If Johnson thought he was among friends, he was soon to discover the opposite.
[And there] was Johnson’s politically self-destructive decision to vote against the government’s Windsor framework Northern Ireland proposal. The early-morning announcement of that move triggered excited speculation that Sunak would face the humiliation of a large Tory revolt that would require him to rely on Labour votes. But Johnson had misread the room. In the end, only 22 Tory backbenchers voted against the government. A potential humiliation for Sunak was transformed into something of a triumph.
The magic – or the poison – has gone.
Sunak has no reason to fear Johnson. He can even target him, perhaps by blocking Johnson’s honours list for being the corruption that it is.
But don’t be misled into dismissing this inquiry as arcane, or as a piece of petty parliamentarism, not real flesh-and-blood politics. That would be terribly, terribly wrong. In procedural, and indeed in moral and historical terms, this inquiry matters a very great deal. A lot hangs on it for Britain. What hangs on it is not merely Johnson’s tattered claims to be an honourable public figure. It is the survival of our representative democracy in an age of demagogic leaders who despise parliamentary norms.
Johnson has proved that he is no longer any part of the solution to the Tory party’s woes. Instead, and more clearly than ever, he is part of its problem.
Kettle: What mattered… was that a stake should be driven through the heart of the beast. And, to a quite unexpected degree, it was.
..the Commons privileges committee confounded any assumptions that they would be partisan pushovers. Instead, the MPs calmly and devastatingly sliced and diced Johnson and the evidence about Downing Street Covid gatherings he has given this week, in print and now in person. If Johnson thought he was among friends, he was soon to discover the opposite.
[And there] was Johnson’s politically self-destructive decision to vote against the government’s Windsor framework Northern Ireland proposal. The early-morning announcement of that move triggered excited speculation that Sunak would face the humiliation of a large Tory revolt that would require him to rely on Labour votes. But Johnson had misread the room. In the end, only 22 Tory backbenchers voted against the government. A potential humiliation for Sunak was transformed into something of a triumph.
The magic – or the poison – has gone.
Sunak has no reason to fear Johnson. He can even target him, perhaps by blocking Johnson’s honours list for being the corruption that it is.
But don’t be misled into dismissing this inquiry as arcane, or as a piece of petty parliamentarism, not real flesh-and-blood politics. That would be terribly, terribly wrong. In procedural, and indeed in moral and historical terms, this inquiry matters a very great deal. A lot hangs on it for Britain. What hangs on it is not merely Johnson’s tattered claims to be an honourable public figure. It is the survival of our representative democracy in an age of demagogic leaders who despise parliamentary norms.
Johnson has proved that he is no longer any part of the solution to the Tory party’s woes. Instead, and more clearly than ever, he is part of its problem.
There are plenty of extremely rich Muslims, especially from the Middle East who live in the likes of Dubai and are a million miles from rural peasants (though there are of course Muslims accepting of homosexuality too)
I can’t see the committee finding he deliberately misled Parliament. That intent is almost impossible to prove given the evidence we’ve seen so far .
I would be shocked if the committee went down that road , even though the vast majority of the public think he’s a serial liar the committee have to look like they’re following the evidence .
The Tory members also would feel very uneasy in delivering something that would likely cause a major rupture in the party .
A verdict of Johnson misled parliament recklessly would be the likely outcome and any observer who isn’t part of the Bozo Cult would think that’s a fair outcome .
I don’t see a suspension of length that could trigger a recall petition .
I think the reckless aspect of his behaviour would still effectively finish off his political career .
Opinium poll on Peston tonight has the Conservatives on 32% if Boris returned as leader compared to 31% now under Rishi.
Labour are unchanged on 43% against both
Give it up - you are sounding pathetic
Well, I mean, if that is what the poll says it is what it is. Can't understand it much myself.
I think @HYUFD is likely correct that one difference is Boris would create more tactical voting because of those who hate him (see every post on here). I can also see why he might still reach some bits of the country other Tories can’t reach (hence maybe his 32% is different people to Rishi’s 31). Both things can be true, but on balance he’s clearly now a liability for them.
What does PB think about Alastair Campbell saying Boris was lying about nearly dying from Covid?
That he might be malcg.
It wouldn't have been made up - it would have leaked out. The rest is just quibbling over him being very poorly/nearly dying, and even if the doctors were extra cautious in treating the PM of the country that wouldn't make it false.
There's so much happening on that page I almost cannot take it.
"Thought for the Day: And this guy had the nuclear codes?"
Think about it. The Daily Star goes fishing for the same pound as The Sun. Their political positions couldn't be different - The Star says what its readers are thinking, The Scum tries to tell its readers what it wants them to think...
The Daily Star is - by far - the best newspaper in Britain. Has been for a long, long time.
Opinium poll on Peston tonight has the Conservatives on 32% if Boris returned as leader compared to 31% now under Rishi.
Labour are unchanged on 43% against both
Give it up - you are sounding pathetic
Well, I mean, if that is what the poll says it is what it is. Can't understand it much myself.
I think @HYUFD is likely correct that one difference is Boris would create more tactical voting because of those who hate him (see every post on here). I can also see why he might still reach some bits of the country other Tories can’t reach (hence maybe his 32% is different people to Rishi’s 31). Both things can be true, but on balance he’s clearly now a liability for them.
What does PB think about Alastair Campbell saying Boris was lying about nearly dying from Covid?
I have been clear in my mind that Alastair Campbell is a disgrace of a man for 20 years or more and this is yet more evidence. Boris has showed he is not fit to be PM, but he was admitted to hospital and the medical staff confirmed what state he was in. Those are two separate things.
Suggesting he made that up is paranoid crap and insulting to a lot of NHS and civil servants who would have to be lying.
Opinium poll on Peston tonight has the Conservatives on 32% if Boris returned as leader compared to 31% now under Rishi.
Labour are unchanged on 43% against both
Give it up - you are sounding pathetic
Well, I mean, if that is what the poll says it is what it is. Can't understand it much myself.
I think @HYUFD is likely correct that one difference is Boris would create more tactical voting because of those who hate him (see every post on here). I can also see why he might still reach some bits of the country other Tories can’t reach (hence maybe his 32% is different people to Rishi’s 31). Both things can be true, but on balance he’s clearly now a liability for them.
The significance would go far beyond the Rishi v Fibby psychodrama, if Labour are nearly only single digits ahead already with Opinium. 😦
At what point do Labour smell the coffee and do some campaigning or opposing or actually having policies and such?
If we were sure those were the real numbers now, over a year out and with a lot of economic recovery and good news to come, then I’d be talking about a Tory win.
Comments
Time for you to admit you have never reconciled losing Johnson and your claim you support Sunak is as disingenuous as ever
Think about it. The Daily Star goes fishing for the same pound as The Sun. Their political positions couldn't be different - The Star says what its readers are thinking, The Scum tries to tell its readers what it wants them to think...
He will be found guilty and I expect a unanimous verdict with a sanction that could even see a recall petition
For clarification I watched the whole three hours
Not massively confident on that prediction, I must say, but maybe 60%.
Enough Tories on the panel were extremely skeptical, and his performance was poor. Plus the severity for a Commons nerd is high and I can't see this as tap on the wrist territory.
I think people grossly underestimate the likely penalty if they find against him. He's gone all in here and actually made it really hard to classify as minor. I just don't see the "guilty and five days suspension" thing that some journos are touting as credible. I actually find not guilty more likely than guilty but trivial.
On the Commons vote on accepting the report, again I think people overestimate support for Johnson. Post-Paterson, I think plenty enough Tories beyond the usual Never Johnson mob will just say "my hands are tied - let him stand in a by-election if he wants".
They can sell it and use the proceeds to buy it somewhere closer to where they want to live.
I'm working on the assumption that house prices will continue to exceed salaries over the next 20 years and to a lesser extent outstrip the FTSE.
However he needs both of the above groups to vote Conservative in 2024 to have even a chance of winning the next general election
Want to see how the Mail are handling it; the Telegraph do seem to have gone into neutral mode.
I’m being notified by passengers on a Southwest flight departing Las Vegas that the captain became incapacitated soon after takeoff this morning. He was removed from the flight deck and replaced by a non Southwest pilot who was commuting on that flight. This is now the fifth pilot incapacitation that I’m aware of in the past two weeks. I will post more details as they become available.
@SouthwestAir
@USFreedomFlyers
@DocPeteChambers
@LTCTheresaLong
@P_McCulloughMD
5:55 PM · Mar 22, 2023
·
1.1M
Views
https://twitter.com/JoshYoder/status/1638600418732154881?s=20
That was the quid pro quo for such unbelievably strict covid rules around care home visits and so forth.
https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1638655554313924608/photo/1
Why aren't we seeing a vast increase in plane crashes?
Or is that being covered up?
Ordinary folk would be more concerned about bus drivers.
Out of touch elite problems.
Roger and out?
Is that a record?
They very, very rarely lead on politics.
Less is more.
I should say she didn't watch the same committee hearing as either myself or many more
https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1638670601639571457?t=mKBPE8KFMS-b3puyva4k4A&s=19
That is Boris Johnson they're talking about, is it?
The most successful journalists lie for money.
There are a disproportionate amount of them at the top of politics. Particularly, but not exclusively in the Tory Party.
by Humbert Wolfe
You cannot hope
to bribe or twist,
thank God! the
British journalist.
But, seeing what
the (wo)man will do
unbribed, there's
no occasion to.
I suppose Harman would be the only person in the room with a face like thunder after listening to the pitiful whining ex PM.
Merely at the Mail. They've lost touch with the zeitgeist. That's the Daily Star's domain now.
Maybe one for polentical blotting, though.
Labour are unchanged on 43% against both
I had thought Boris retained his popularity (and I think he did for a while, especially in some places) but he does now look a busted flush.
Court rejects Trump’s urgent bid to keep lawyer’s records from special counsel
The ruling effectively permits the Justice Department to circumvent Trump’s attorney-client privilege after a lower-court judge found that the documents likely contain evidence of a crime.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/22/trump-court-rejects-special-counsel-00088403
The "crime-fraud" exception to attorney client privilege invoked.
If he achieves something and the media turn on Starmer for a “come back” narrative, which I think they are desperate to do.
It does show however that Rishi needs to get Boris supporters in his tent if he is to have a chance of winning the next general election or even just getting a hung parliament
Cammo was the first PM for 200 years to lose a vote on military action, plus the first to lose a referendum. May broke some sort of record with all her Commons defeats on her Brexit deal as well as losing the biggest ever vote share between campaign launch and polling day. Truss was the shortest ever.
So only fitting that the clown becomes the first to be thrown out.
Sunak has given the HOC a free vote on the decision and there are plenty of conservative mps who will support the verdict despite your desperate attempts at blackmail
The zeitgeist moves.
But this is not a criminal situation but a political one, where duty looks in more than one direction. There is more than enough cover enabling them to fulfil one duty with a guilty verdict, but fulfil their other duty with a not so severe sentence. That’s where the betting money lies tonight, to answer the headers question,
The question of sentence in my opinion will be high and possible recall is certainly a real prospect
It can be counter productive because it means the decision maker cannot hide, even to themselves, what might be driving a lesser position, they could feel the politics being too prominent and react against the assumption that should be their only consideration.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/poll-finds-more-than-half-of-britsih-muslims-believe-homosexuality-should-be-illegal-a6978091.html
..the Commons privileges committee confounded any assumptions that they would be partisan pushovers. Instead, the MPs calmly and devastatingly sliced and diced Johnson and the evidence about Downing Street Covid gatherings he has given this week, in print and now in person. If Johnson thought he was among friends, he was soon to discover the opposite.
[And there] was Johnson’s politically self-destructive decision to vote against the government’s Windsor framework Northern Ireland proposal. The early-morning announcement of that move triggered excited speculation that Sunak would face the humiliation of a large Tory revolt that would require him to rely on Labour votes. But Johnson had misread the room. In the end, only 22 Tory backbenchers voted against the government. A potential humiliation for Sunak was transformed into something of a triumph.
The magic – or the poison – has gone.
Sunak has no reason to fear Johnson. He can even target him, perhaps by blocking Johnson’s honours list for being the corruption that it is.
But don’t be misled into dismissing this inquiry as arcane, or as a piece of petty parliamentarism, not real flesh-and-blood politics. That would be terribly, terribly wrong. In procedural, and indeed in moral and historical terms, this inquiry matters a very great deal. A lot hangs on it for Britain. What hangs on it is not merely Johnson’s tattered claims to be an honourable public figure. It is the survival of our representative democracy in an age of demagogic leaders who despise parliamentary norms.
Johnson has proved that he is no longer any part of the solution to the Tory party’s woes. Instead, and more clearly than ever, he is part of its problem.
Rish is there until Election 24 and then the Tories will move on to the next generation which means Kemi LOTO.
@wokinglass
·
Mar 21
Does anyone actually believe that Johnson nearly died of COVID?
ALASTAIR CAMPBELL
@campbellclaret
·
15h
Replying to
@wokinglass
No.
What does PB think about Alastair Campbell saying Boris was lying about nearly dying from Covid?
I would be shocked if the committee went down that road , even though the vast majority of the public think he’s a serial liar the committee have to look like they’re following the evidence .
The Tory members also would feel very uneasy in delivering something that would likely cause a major rupture in the party .
A verdict of Johnson misled parliament recklessly would be the likely outcome and any observer who isn’t part of the Bozo Cult would think that’s a fair outcome .
I don’t see a suspension of length that could trigger a recall petition .
I think the reckless aspect of his behaviour would still effectively finish off his political career .
It wouldn't have been made up - it would have leaked out. The rest is just quibbling over him being very poorly/nearly dying, and even if the doctors were extra cautious in treating the PM of the country that wouldn't make it false.
At what point do Labour smell the coffee and do some campaigning or opposing or actually having policies and such?
Suggesting he made that up is paranoid crap and insulting to a lot of NHS and civil servants who would have to be lying.