A reminder of the polling on today’s big political issue – politicalbetting.com

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A reminder of the polling on today’s big political issue – politicalbetting.com

YouGov on the public view of Johnson and lockdown pic.twitter.com/BiZu679pIM

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Taz

First

Like Labour in the upcoming Uxbridge and S Ruislip By election

OnlyLivingBoy

I'd love to know the details of those 14%, I have so much stuff to sell them.

Carnyx

Taz said:

First

Like Labour in the upcoming Uxbridge and S Ruislip By election

LDs surely?

Nigelb

OnlyLivingBoy said:

I'd love to know the details of those 14%, I have so much stuff to sell them.

Did you bulk buy Johnson's remaindered books ?

SeaShantyIrish2

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

Taz

Carnyx said:

Taz said:

First

Like Labour in the upcoming Uxbridge and S Ruislip By election

LDs surely?

"WINNING HERE"

Big_G_NorthWales

Sky highlighting Sunaks response to Starmer reference to Sunak's FPN

DougSeal

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

Nigelb

For maths geeks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/divbyzero/status/1638192716474458112
Super exciting news about Smith, Meyers,
@cs_kaplan, Goodman-Strauss's discovery of an "einstein"—a single shape that tiles the plane aperiodically! I decided to create a 3D-printable version of it. You can find it here: https://thingiverse.com/thing:5923307
Preprint: https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.10798

Nigelb

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

We already had the committee's remit questioned on the last thread.

TOPPING

If "misled parliament" is shorthand for went to parties, ignored guidelines, perhaps even laws then that is not surprising.

As was beginning to be investigated on the old thread, however, I wonder if he did mislead parliament as he would surely manage to not incriminate himself in any statements he gave and instead trod a path of strict letter of the laws/guidelines/rules.

But of course it doesn't matter. Everyone is and was confused about the rules, the guidelines, and the law and now it seems that what was sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

And he made the laws, guidelines, and rules. So fuck him.

HYUFD

Surely today's big political issue is the vote on the Windsor Framework deal this afternoon? Even that is now partly turning into a Boris led rebellion with Boris and Truss supporters rebelling against Sunak's government while Rishi will rely on Labour support to get it through

Carnyx

Nigelb said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

We already had the committee's remit questioned on the last thread.

And have a look at the header for the last thread - the DM headline is *very* easily misread, especially with '... fight' as an ending. I wonder if someone else is also jumping ship?

Big_G_NorthWales

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

TOPPING

HYUFD said:

Surely today's big political issue is the vote on the Windsor Framework deal this afternoon? Even that is now partly turning into a Boris led rebellion with Boris and Truss supporters rebelling against Sunak's government while Rishi will rely on Labour support to get it through

How many of the ERG (and how many ERG are there?) do you think will follow Baker who is presumably voting in favour?

FrankBooth

The second issue would be how important do the public think misleading parliament to be? Now on pb we would all assume very but we aren't average joes.

TOPPING

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

OnlyLivingBoy

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

Sunak was bouncing... Trying to see over the top of the dispatch box?

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Surely today's big political issue is the vote on the Windsor Framework deal this afternoon? Even that is now partly turning into a Boris led rebellion with Boris and Truss supporters rebelling against Sunak's government while Rishi will rely on Labour support to get it through

You cannot be serious

Johnson humiliation is going to catch the nation not the votes of an increasingly irrelevant ERG

TOPPING

FrankBooth said:

The second issue would be how important do the public think misleading parliament to be? Now on pb we would all assume very but we aren't average joes.

Perhaps he mislead Parliament in a limited and specific way.

WhisperingOracle

FPT :

Sunak is definitely upping his game. A more pragmatic and less ideologically Thatcherite approach to the strikes, improved Commons performances, and a general sense of him growing into the role.

Some partial improvements in the polls as a result ; it won't be enough to win the Tories the next election, but he might be the only force that could save them from a terrible reduction in seats , and rescue them from irrelevance.

FrankBooth

Somewhat polemical but there is a lot of truth in this interview from CNN.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK4y6C1Uuhw

It isn't clear where developed countries are going in the long term regards family formation, fertility rates and male inclusion.

boulay

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

From the Guardian.

Starmer says the only criminal investigation Sunak has been involved in is the one that found him guilty of breaking the law. He says he was a prosecutor. He prosecuted countless rapists, and he supports tough sentences, but you have to catch them first. After 13 years of Tory government, they have done nothing on standards, community policing has been weakened, and burglars and rapists walk the street with impunity.

Sunak says he has apologised for the fine. But he says the Sue Gray report confirmed that he had no knowledge of the meeting. But Sunak says he does not need to tell Starmer that; Starmer has probably spoken to Gray more than he has.


I thought his earlier gag was funnier; Starmer was saying to Sunak that Sunak needs to get out of the Westminster and Kensington bubble (and chucked in Malibu as well for non-laughs) and Sunak replied that North Yorkshire is further from the Westminster bubble than North London.

biggles

HYUFD said:

Surely today's big political issue is the vote on the Windsor Framework deal this afternoon? Even that is now partly turning into a Boris led rebellion with Boris and Truss supporters rebelling against Sunak's government while Rishi will rely on Labour support to get it through

Indeed. If he wants to, the PM can conflate the two and spin today as a repudiation or Boris and a dwindling band of supporters. But there might be a risk in that, given Boris does have supporters in the country.

biggles

FrankBooth said:

The second issue would be how important do the public think misleading parliament to be? Now on pb we would all assume very but we aren't average joes.

Agree. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the public don’t care about lying to Parliament. That’s partly because they don’t revere Parliament and partly because they assume all MPs do it all the time.

TOPPING

boulay said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

From the Guardian.

Starmer says the only criminal investigation Sunak has been involved in is the one that found him guilty of breaking the law. He says he was a prosecutor. He prosecuted countless rapists, and he supports tough sentences, but you have to catch them first. After 13 years of Tory government, they have done nothing on standards, community policing has been weakened, and burglars and rapists walk the street with impunity.

Sunak says he has apologised for the fine. But he says the Sue Gray report confirmed that he had no knowledge of the meeting. But Sunak says he does not need to tell Starmer that; Starmer has probably spoken to Gray more than he has.


I thought his earlier gag was funnier; Starmer was saying to Sunak that Sunak needs to get out of the Westminster and Kensington bubble (and chucked in Malibu as well for non-laughs) and Sunak replied that North Yorkshire is further from the Westminster bubble than North London.

tyvm

Big_G_NorthWales

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

TOPPING

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

Thanks Big G

Northern_Al

Sunak will obviously win the Windsor Framework vote this afternoon by a huge majority.
Nevertheless, it would be pretty embarrassing for a government with a large majority to have to rely on opposition parties to win such an important vote. So, I think the number of Tory rebels does matter. I reckon it will be very small.

Big_G_NorthWales

Northern_Al said:

Sunak will obviously win the Windsor Framework vote this afternoon by a huge majority.
Nevertheless, it would be pretty embarrassing for a government with a large majority to have to rely on opposition parties to win such an important vote. So, I think the number of Tory rebels does matter. I reckon it will be very small.

Circa 22 probably

biggles

Northern_Al said:

Sunak will obviously win the Windsor Framework vote this afternoon by a huge majority.
Nevertheless, it would be pretty embarrassing for a government with a large majority to have to rely on opposition parties to win such an important vote. So, I think the number of Tory rebels does matter. I reckon it will be very small.

The whips will surely be working overtime to make this exact point. “You can’t win so why strengthen Labour? Just abstain”.

OnlyLivingBoy

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

TOPPING

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

Chill. It was a good joke. Oh if only people didn't take obvious jokes so seriously on PB.

Stocky

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Northern_Al said:

Sunak will obviously win the Windsor Framework vote this afternoon by a huge majority.
Nevertheless, it would be pretty embarrassing for a government with a large majority to have to rely on opposition parties to win such an important vote. So, I think the number of Tory rebels does matter. I reckon it will be very small.

Circa 22 probably

My post of 27 February:

"Ok I'm calling it. Nil Tory MPs voting against. Max 20 abstain."

Big_G_NorthWales

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

It has been established that Starmer and Gray were in contact in and around November at the time she was advising the privileges committee

TOPPING

biggles said:

HYUFD said:

Surely today's big political issue is the vote on the Windsor Framework deal this afternoon? Even that is now partly turning into a Boris led rebellion with Boris and Truss supporters rebelling against Sunak's government while Rishi will rely on Labour support to get it through

Indeed. If he wants to, the PM can conflate the two and spin today as a repudiation or Boris and a dwindling band of supporters. But there might be a risk in that, given Boris does have supporters in the country.

And the party although we shall see how many.

OnlyLivingBoy

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

Chill. It was a good joke. Oh if only people didn't take obvious jokes so seriously on PB.

Jokes on PB are different from the PM speaking in the House of Commons and trashing government employees, aren't they?

NerysHughes

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

It has been established that Starmer and Gray were in contact in and around November at the time she was advising the privileges committee

It was a poor mistake by Starmer to annouce the Gray appointment before today.

TOPPING

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

Chill. It was a good joke. Oh if only people didn't take obvious jokes so seriously on PB.

Jokes on PB are different from the PM speaking in the House of Commons and trashing government employees, aren't they?

Jokes are good because there is an element of truth in them. As was the case here.

OnlyLivingBoy

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

It has been established that Starmer and Gray were in contact in and around November at the time she was advising the privileges committee

But she wasn't advising Starmer at the time.

TOPPING

btw can we add "fanbois" to the list of banned words/terms on PB. It makes me cringe every time.

tia

AlistairM

John Redwood looks very unhappy in the House of Commons. Nothing unusual there, I know. I suspect he is very likely to vote against. Probably like how his constituents will vote towards him at the next GE.

HYUFD

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Surely today's big political issue is the vote on the Windsor Framework deal this afternoon? Even that is now partly turning into a Boris led rebellion with Boris and Truss supporters rebelling against Sunak's government while Rishi will rely on Labour support to get it through

You cannot be serious

Johnson humiliation is going to catch the nation not the votes of an increasingly irrelevant ERG

The vote in the Commons will effectively show the size of Boris' support in the Commons now he opposes this Deal and is the most relevant event politically this afternoon therefore

OnlyLivingBoy

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

Chill. It was a good joke. Oh if only people didn't take obvious jokes so seriously on PB.

Jokes on PB are different from the PM speaking in the House of Commons and trashing government employees, aren't they?

Jokes are good because there is an element of truth in them. As was the case here.

It was just trashy BS, pure Johnsonian bilge and a sign the Tories haven't moved on from his era. The FPN was issued by the police, Sue Gray had nothing to do with it.

Big_G_NorthWales

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

It has been established that Starmer and Gray were in contact in and around November at the time she was advising the privileges committee

But she wasn't advising Starmer at the time.

Here is the exchange

https://youtu.be/cSj6MXLj1sk

carnforth

25 injuries, 15 taken to hospital at the dock:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-65038617

noneoftheabove

TOPPING said:

btw can we add "fanbois" to the list of banned words/terms on PB. It makes me cringe every time.

tia

A deal if we can we add sychophantic parroting of daily mail and central office false propaganda in exchange?

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Surely today's big political issue is the vote on the Windsor Framework deal this afternoon? Even that is now partly turning into a Boris led rebellion with Boris and Truss supporters rebelling against Sunak's government while Rishi will rely on Labour support to get it through

You cannot be serious

Johnson humiliation is going to catch the nation not the votes of an increasingly irrelevant ERG

The vote in the Commons will effectively show the size of Boris' support in the Commons now he opposes this Deal and is the most relevant event politically this afternoon therefore

In your dreams

Nigelb

.

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

Chill. It was a good joke. Oh if only people didn't take obvious jokes so seriously on PB.

Jokes on PB are different from the PM speaking in the House of Commons and trashing government employees, aren't they?

Jokes are good because there is an element of truth in them. As was the case here.

But rather misses the other element of truth - that a civil servant was handed a politically awkward task that no one else wanted, performed it pretty well, and was then told her career was at a dead end.

Which is largely why she took the job with Labour.

A bit less amusing, I suppose.

biggles

carnforth said:

25 injuries, 15 taken to hospital at the dock:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-65038617

That’s awful. Hopefully no one was seriously hurt trying to save an object.

Nigelb

If the appeal court allows the order for these tapes to be handed over, could be very awkward indeed for Trump.

Trump denounces ‘crime-fraud’ ruling forcing attorney to testify in documents probe
The ruling by the federal District Court in D.C. came as its chief judge wound up her term supervising the grand jury.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/21/trump-crime-fraud-attorney-documents-probe-00088215

ping

Fpt (Uganda Homophobia);

felix said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga and the events at Namuwongo, in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key founding myths of the (otherwise improbable) Ugandan nation.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

I was waiting for the first one to blame us for this vote...

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key Ugandan founding myths.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

It’s more of a reaction against colonialism.

France abolished laws against gay sex in 1791, so, it was never a crime in the French Empire. But most former French colonies made it so, after independence.

Most former British colonies made the laws more stringent.

It will still be our fault, somehow.

These post by @Casino_Royale & @felix display extreme ignorance. You’ve both chosen to misrepresent what I posted and turn it into a cheap point in the British right wing culture war.

Do you have even the most basic understanding of Ugandan history? Or the political debate about homosexuality in Uganda since the mid 2000’s?

You don’t think Namugongo is relevant? Why is Uganda so much more hostile to homosexuality vis-a-vis other African countries?

If you are remotely interested/concerned about homophobia in Uganda, you have to understand the political weaponisation of the Uganda martyrs in the project of nation building.

As I said, they’ve taken our colonial bullshit and run with it. How is that not true?

Theuniondivvie

biggles said:

carnforth said:

25 injuries, 15 taken to hospital at the dock:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-65038617

That’s awful. Hopefully no one was seriously hurt trying to save an object.

I imagine most if not all just happened on be on site when it went over. According to Wiki it was high winds that toppled Petrel which is fairly mind boggling.

Sandpit

NerysHughes said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

It has been established that Starmer and Gray were in contact in and around November at the time she was advising the privileges committee

It was a poor mistake by Starmer to annouce the Gray appointment before today.

Sometimes it shows, that Starmer hasn’t been in politics for all that long. The announcement of Gray’s appointment, in advance of what’s going on this week, looks politically naïve.

JosiasJessop

Nigelb said:

.

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

Chill. It was a good joke. Oh if only people didn't take obvious jokes so seriously on PB.

Jokes on PB are different from the PM speaking in the House of Commons and trashing government employees, aren't they?

Jokes are good because there is an element of truth in them. As was the case here.

But rather misses the other element of truth - that a civil servant was handed a politically awkward task that no one else wanted, performed it pretty well, and was then told her career was at a dead end.

Which is largely why she took the job with Labour.

A bit less amusing, I suppose.

Which is fine if that is all the story. However, *if* she was having talks with Labour or Labour figures outside the remit of that task, whilst she was doing the task, then she was very foolish. As far as I have seen, Labour's denials about this are weak.

Anabobazina

Nigelb said:

.

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

Chill. It was a good joke. Oh if only people didn't take obvious jokes so seriously on PB.

Jokes on PB are different from the PM speaking in the House of Commons and trashing government employees, aren't they?

Jokes are good because there is an element of truth in them. As was the case here.

But rather misses the other element of truth - that a civil servant was handed a politically awkward task that no one else wanted, performed it pretty well, and was then told her career was at a dead end.

Which is largely why she took the job with Labour.

A bit less amusing, I suppose.

I kinda missed this story – my recollection was that Bozza appointed Gray himself (wasn't there some grumbling at the time that he shouldn't be allowed to select the investigator?).

If so, I don't see why her later appointment by Labour is particularly relevant.

I might have the timeline and indeed the details wrong, admittedly.

Big_G_NorthWales

Steve Baker thrown out of one of the ERG whats app groups

He can wear that badge with pride

bondegezou

Sandpit said:

NerysHughes said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

It has been established that Starmer and Gray were in contact in and around November at the time she was advising the privileges committee

It was a poor mistake by Starmer to annouce the Gray appointment before today.

Sometimes it shows, that Starmer hasn’t been in politics for all that long. The announcement of Gray’s appointment, in advance of what’s going on this week, looks politically naïve.

Unless the news was going to come out anyway, in which case better to announce it than have to "admit" it after someone else leaks it.

HYUFD

ping said:

Fpt (Uganda Homophobia);

felix said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga and the events at Namuwongo, in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key founding myths of the (otherwise improbable) Ugandan nation.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

I was waiting for the first one to blame us for this vote...

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key Ugandan founding myths.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

It’s more of a reaction against colonialism.

France abolished laws against gay sex in 1791, so, it was never a crime in the French Empire. But most former French colonies made it so, after independence.

Most former British colonies made the laws more stringent.

It will still be our fault, somehow.

These post by @Casino_Royale & @felix display extreme ignorance. You’ve both chosen to misrepresent what I posted and turn it into a cheap point in the British right wing culture war.

Do you have even the most basic understanding of Ugandan history? Or the political debate about homosexuality in Uganda since the mid 2000’s?

You don’t think Namugongo is relevant? Why is Uganda so much more hostile to homosexuality vis-a-vis other African countries?

If you are remotely interested/concerned about homophobia in Uganda, you have to understand the political weaponisation of the Uganda martyrs in the project of nation building.

As I said, they’ve taken our colonial bullshit and run with it. How is that not true?

Homosexuality is also illegal in most of the former French colonies in North Africa. South Africa though, which was part of the British Empire, is the only African nation where homosexual marriage is legal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

TheKitchenCabinet

WhisperingOracle said:

FPT :

Sunak is definitely upping his game. A more pragmatic and less ideologically Thatcherite approach to the strikes, improved Commons performances, and a general sense of him growing into the role.

Some partial improvements in the polls as a result ; it won't be enough to win the Tories the next election, but he might be the only force that could save them from a terrible reduction in seats , and rescue them from irrelevance.

Why not? There is 14 months plus to go. He is near level-pegging with Starmer on Best PM rating and he clearly has momentum. Starmer, OTOH, hasn't really done a huge amount when it comes to the voters for a while.

biggles

Theuniondivvie said:

biggles said:

carnforth said:

25 injuries, 15 taken to hospital at the dock:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-65038617

That’s awful. Hopefully no one was seriously hurt trying to save an object.

I imagine most if not all just happened on be on site when it went over. According to Wiki it was high winds that toppled Petrel which is fairly mind boggling.

In slower time, once the injuries are dealt with, heads need to roll. I can’t recall ever seeing this happen in dry dock before.

Nigel_Foremain

TOPPING said:

btw can we add "fanbois" to the list of banned words/terms on PB. It makes me cringe every time.

tia

It suggests a plural, so may, for the time being at least, be correct when referring to the remining apologists for Boris Johnson. When the inevitable state of affairs results in just HYUFD being the only one daft enough to support King Bullshit, then we might refer to him as Boris Johnson's Fanboy. In the singular.

biggles

TheKitchenCabinet said:

WhisperingOracle said:

FPT :

Sunak is definitely upping his game. A more pragmatic and less ideologically Thatcherite approach to the strikes, improved Commons performances, and a general sense of him growing into the role.

Some partial improvements in the polls as a result ; it won't be enough to win the Tories the next election, but he might be the only force that could save them from a terrible reduction in seats , and rescue them from irrelevance.

Why not? There is 14 months plus to go. He is near level-pegging with Starmer on Best PM rating and he clearly has momentum. Starmer, OTOH, hasn't really done a huge amount when it comes to the voters for a while.

I have been wondering if there has been a chance in the number 10 team no one noticed. There’s sees to be a grip on Government affairs we haven’t see since the Coalition.

Anabobazina

JosiasJessop said:

Nigelb said:

.

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

Chill. It was a good joke. Oh if only people didn't take obvious jokes so seriously on PB.

Jokes on PB are different from the PM speaking in the House of Commons and trashing government employees, aren't they?

Jokes are good because there is an element of truth in them. As was the case here.

But rather misses the other element of truth - that a civil servant was handed a politically awkward task that no one else wanted, performed it pretty well, and was then told her career was at a dead end.

Which is largely why she took the job with Labour.

A bit less amusing, I suppose.

Which is fine if that is all the story. However, *if* she was having talks with Labour or Labour figures outside the remit of that task, whilst she was doing the task, then she was very foolish. As far as I have seen, Labour's denials about this are weak.

Currygate II: The Return of the Jalfrezi ?

BartholomewRoberts

Theuniondivvie said:

biggles said:

carnforth said:

25 injuries, 15 taken to hospital at the dock:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-65038617

That’s awful. Hopefully no one was seriously hurt trying to save an object.

I imagine most if not all just happened on be on site when it went over. According to Wiki it was high winds that toppled Petrel which is fairly mind boggling.

Indeed, its typically Russian warships that get sunk by high winds.

Driver

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

It has been established that Starmer and Gray were in contact in and around November at the time she was advising the privileges committee

But she wasn't advising Starmer at the time.

Sorry, but that's how politics works.

numbertwelve

I agree with others on here that Sunak should be playing hard ball with the rebels this PM and use it as an excuse to excise the nutters from the party once and for all.

He likely won’t, unfortunately. I suspect too frit of the thought of all out civil war.

That task will likely be left for a future leader.

OnlyLivingBoy

Driver said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

It has been established that Starmer and Gray were in contact in and around November at the time she was advising the privileges committee

But she wasn't advising Starmer at the time.

Sorry, but that's how politics works.

It shows how the Johnson infection of the Tory party is still there. Post-truth politics, and Tory posters on here lap it up.

Theuniondivvie

HYUFD said:

ping said:

Fpt (Uganda Homophobia);

felix said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga and the events at Namuwongo, in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key founding myths of the (otherwise improbable) Ugandan nation.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

I was waiting for the first one to blame us for this vote...

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key Ugandan founding myths.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

It’s more of a reaction against colonialism.

France abolished laws against gay sex in 1791, so, it was never a crime in the French Empire. But most former French colonies made it so, after independence.

Most former British colonies made the laws more stringent.

It will still be our fault, somehow.

These post by @Casino_Royale & @felix display extreme ignorance. You’ve both chosen to misrepresent what I posted and turn it into a cheap point in the British right wing culture war.

Do you have even the most basic understanding of Ugandan history? Or the political debate about homosexuality in Uganda since the mid 2000’s?

You don’t think Namugongo is relevant? Why is Uganda so much more hostile to homosexuality vis-a-vis other African countries?

If you are remotely interested/concerned about homophobia in Uganda, you have to understand the political weaponisation of the Uganda martyrs in the project of nation building.

As I said, they’ve taken our colonial bullshit and run with it. How is that not true?

Homosexuality is also illegal in most of the former French colonies in North Africa. South Africa though, which was part of the British Empire, is the only African nation where homosexual marriage is legal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

How many other African countries are ex British Empire, and why aren't they making homosexual marriage legal?

kinabalu

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TOPPING said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

Chill. It was a good joke. Oh if only people didn't take obvious jokes so seriously on PB.

Jokes on PB are different from the PM speaking in the House of Commons and trashing government employees, aren't they?

Jokes are good because there is an element of truth in them. As was the case here.

It was just trashy BS, pure Johnsonian bilge and a sign the Tories haven't moved on from his era. The FPN was issued by the police, Sue Gray had nothing to do with it.

The "mature and serious" Sunak does seem to go AWOL at times.

Mexicanpete

TOPPING said:

btw can we add "fanbois" to the list of banned words/terms on PB. It makes me cringe every time.

tia

No! How else can we refer to HY. He is a Johnson fanboi? Nothing else works as well.

Nigel_Foremain

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Driver said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

It has been established that Starmer and Gray were in contact in and around November at the time she was advising the privileges committee

But she wasn't advising Starmer at the time.

Sorry, but that's how politics works.

It shows how the Johnson infection of the Tory party is still there. Post-truth politics, and Tory posters on here lap it up.

Some of them do (probably 3 or 4 max). They are the perfect reflection of the few Corbyn apologists. Still convinced of their man's righteousness in spite of the evidence that is there by the cartload.

I award all of them the Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf Medal with gold leaf for absurd adherence to a desperate belief set in the face of overwhelming evidence

kinabalu

Northern_Al said:

Sunak will obviously win the Windsor Framework vote this afternoon by a huge majority.
Nevertheless, it would be pretty embarrassing for a government with a large majority to have to rely on opposition parties to win such an important vote. So, I think the number of Tory rebels does matter. I reckon it will be very small.

Impressed you have time to post, Al, with that big new job of supplying Driver with all of Labour's policies.

Nigel_Foremain

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

ping said:

Fpt (Uganda Homophobia);

felix said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga and the events at Namuwongo, in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key founding myths of the (otherwise improbable) Ugandan nation.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

I was waiting for the first one to blame us for this vote...

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key Ugandan founding myths.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

It’s more of a reaction against colonialism.

France abolished laws against gay sex in 1791, so, it was never a crime in the French Empire. But most former French colonies made it so, after independence.

Most former British colonies made the laws more stringent.

It will still be our fault, somehow.

These post by @Casino_Royale & @felix display extreme ignorance. You’ve both chosen to misrepresent what I posted and turn it into a cheap point in the British right wing culture war.

Do you have even the most basic understanding of Ugandan history? Or the political debate about homosexuality in Uganda since the mid 2000’s?

You don’t think Namugongo is relevant? Why is Uganda so much more hostile to homosexuality vis-a-vis other African countries?

If you are remotely interested/concerned about homophobia in Uganda, you have to understand the political weaponisation of the Uganda martyrs in the project of nation building.

As I said, they’ve taken our colonial bullshit and run with it. How is that not true?

Homosexuality is also illegal in most of the former French colonies in North Africa. South Africa though, which was part of the British Empire, is the only African nation where homosexual marriage is legal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

How many other African countries are ex British Empire, and why aren't they making homosexual marriage legal?

Is the answer to your question "the remaining influence of Scottish Presbyterianism resultant from the disproportionate number of Scots who drove said empire"?

Malmesbury

BartholomewRoberts said:

Theuniondivvie said:

biggles said:

carnforth said:

25 injuries, 15 taken to hospital at the dock:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-65038617

That’s awful. Hopefully no one was seriously hurt trying to save an object.

I imagine most if not all just happened on be on site when it went over. According to Wiki it was high winds that toppled Petrel which is fairly mind boggling.

Indeed, its typically Russian warships that get sunk by high winds.

That's poor smoking safety, generally.

Dry docking has been causing fun ever since the days of pulling a ship up on the beach (careening)

Imagine the interview without coffee that must of happened after HMS Valiant had it's little accident - "So, you've broken a whole battleship...."

HYUFD

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

ping said:

Fpt (Uganda Homophobia);

felix said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga and the events at Namuwongo, in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key founding myths of the (otherwise improbable) Ugandan nation.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

I was waiting for the first one to blame us for this vote...

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key Ugandan founding myths.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

It’s more of a reaction against colonialism.

France abolished laws against gay sex in 1791, so, it was never a crime in the French Empire. But most former French colonies made it so, after independence.

Most former British colonies made the laws more stringent.

It will still be our fault, somehow.

These post by @Casino_Royale & @felix display extreme ignorance. You’ve both chosen to misrepresent what I posted and turn it into a cheap point in the British right wing culture war.

Do you have even the most basic understanding of Ugandan history? Or the political debate about homosexuality in Uganda since the mid 2000’s?

You don’t think Namugongo is relevant? Why is Uganda so much more hostile to homosexuality vis-a-vis other African countries?

If you are remotely interested/concerned about homophobia in Uganda, you have to understand the political weaponisation of the Uganda martyrs in the project of nation building.

As I said, they’ve taken our colonial bullshit and run with it. How is that not true?

Homosexuality is also illegal in most of the former French colonies in North Africa. South Africa though, which was part of the British Empire, is the only African nation where homosexual marriage is legal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

How many other African countries are ex British Empire, and why aren't they making homosexual marriage legal?

Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the USA are also ex British Empire and also have legal homosexual marriage. The only African nation with legal homosexual marriage as mentioned ex British Empire South Africa

The likely next leader of the Scottish National Party is however opposed to homosexual marriage

Northern_Al

kinabalu said:

Northern_Al said:

Sunak will obviously win the Windsor Framework vote this afternoon by a huge majority.
Nevertheless, it would be pretty embarrassing for a government with a large majority to have to rely on opposition parties to win such an important vote. So, I think the number of Tory rebels does matter. I reckon it will be very small.

Impressed you have time to post, Al, with that big new job of supplying Driver with all of Labour's policies.

No problem, I can multi-task. I'm drafting Labour's manifesto as we speak.
Starting with a blank piece of paper, obviously (he said, pre-emptively).

Big_G_NorthWales

On the WF vote I get the impression the ERG anti are more likely to vote against as they know it will pass

Indeed Rees Mogg said as much

Upto 35 now predicted to vote against

Driver

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Driver said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

It has been established that Starmer and Gray were in contact in and around November at the time she was advising the privileges committee

But she wasn't advising Starmer at the time.

Sorry, but that's how politics works.

It shows how the Johnson infection of the Tory party is still there. Post-truth politics, and Tory posters on here lap it up.

W
M
D
.

RobD

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

ping said:

Fpt (Uganda Homophobia);

felix said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga and the events at Namuwongo, in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key founding myths of the (otherwise improbable) Ugandan nation.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

I was waiting for the first one to blame us for this vote...

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key Ugandan founding myths.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

It’s more of a reaction against colonialism.

France abolished laws against gay sex in 1791, so, it was never a crime in the French Empire. But most former French colonies made it so, after independence.

Most former British colonies made the laws more stringent.

It will still be our fault, somehow.

These post by @Casino_Royale & @felix display extreme ignorance. You’ve both chosen to misrepresent what I posted and turn it into a cheap point in the British right wing culture war.

Do you have even the most basic understanding of Ugandan history? Or the political debate about homosexuality in Uganda since the mid 2000’s?

You don’t think Namugongo is relevant? Why is Uganda so much more hostile to homosexuality vis-a-vis other African countries?

If you are remotely interested/concerned about homophobia in Uganda, you have to understand the political weaponisation of the Uganda martyrs in the project of nation building.

As I said, they’ve taken our colonial bullshit and run with it. How is that not true?

Homosexuality is also illegal in most of the former French colonies in North Africa. South Africa though, which was part of the British Empire, is the only African nation where homosexual marriage is legal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

How many other African countries are ex British Empire, and why aren't they making homosexual marriage legal?

Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the USA are also ex British Empire and also support homosexual marriage.

The likely next leader of the Scottish National Party is however opposed to homosexual marriage

Scotland not yet ex-British Empire.

Driver

kinabalu said:

Northern_Al said:

Sunak will obviously win the Windsor Framework vote this afternoon by a huge majority.
Nevertheless, it would be pretty embarrassing for a government with a large majority to have to rely on opposition parties to win such an important vote. So, I think the number of Tory rebels does matter. I reckon it will be very small.

Impressed you have time to post, Al, with that big new job of supplying Driver with all of Labour's policies.

Well, he obviously doesn't spend his time telling you not to embarrass yourself.

Nigel_Foremain

biggles said:

TheKitchenCabinet said:

WhisperingOracle said:

FPT :

Sunak is definitely upping his game. A more pragmatic and less ideologically Thatcherite approach to the strikes, improved Commons performances, and a general sense of him growing into the role.

Some partial improvements in the polls as a result ; it won't be enough to win the Tories the next election, but he might be the only force that could save them from a terrible reduction in seats , and rescue them from irrelevance.

Why not? There is 14 months plus to go. He is near level-pegging with Starmer on Best PM rating and he clearly has momentum. Starmer, OTOH, hasn't really done a huge amount when it comes to the voters for a while.

I have been wondering if there has been a chance in the number 10 team no one noticed. There’s sees to be a grip on Government affairs we haven’t see since the Coalition.

My thoughts too. A professionalism that has been lacking for some time. Will the electorate notice and credit it? Who knows?

Theuniondivvie

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

ping said:

Fpt (Uganda Homophobia);

felix said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga and the events at Namuwongo, in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key founding myths of the (otherwise improbable) Ugandan nation.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

I was waiting for the first one to blame us for this vote...

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key Ugandan founding myths.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

It’s more of a reaction against colonialism.

France abolished laws against gay sex in 1791, so, it was never a crime in the French Empire. But most former French colonies made it so, after independence.

Most former British colonies made the laws more stringent.

It will still be our fault, somehow.

These post by @Casino_Royale & @felix display extreme ignorance. You’ve both chosen to misrepresent what I posted and turn it into a cheap point in the British right wing culture war.

Do you have even the most basic understanding of Ugandan history? Or the political debate about homosexuality in Uganda since the mid 2000’s?

You don’t think Namugongo is relevant? Why is Uganda so much more hostile to homosexuality vis-a-vis other African countries?

If you are remotely interested/concerned about homophobia in Uganda, you have to understand the political weaponisation of the Uganda martyrs in the project of nation building.

As I said, they’ve taken our colonial bullshit and run with it. How is that not true?

Homosexuality is also illegal in most of the former French colonies in North Africa. South Africa though, which was part of the British Empire, is the only African nation where homosexual marriage is legal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

How many other African countries are ex British Empire, and why aren't they making homosexual marriage legal?

Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the USA are also ex British Empire and also have legal homosexual marriage. The only African nation with legal homosexual marriage as mentioned ex British Empire South Africa

The likely next leader of the Scottish National Party is however opposed to homosexual marriage

So by you gotch eyed logic the BE was also responsible for apartheid? Fair enough.

Stuartinromford

Big_G_NorthWales said:

On the WF vote I get the impression the ERG anti are more likely to vote against as they know it will pass

Indeed Rees Mogg said as much

Upto 35 now predicted to vote against

Getting close to the "this only passed thanks to the opposition" threshold. The government's current working majority is 66.

Doesn't matter in the real world (today's big story there is that inflation isn't falling yet), but important in the playground.

Theuniondivvie

..

Northern_Al

Nigel_Foremain said:

TOPPING said:

btw can we add "fanbois" to the list of banned words/terms on PB. It makes me cringe every time.

tia

It suggests a plural, so may, for the time being at least, be correct when referring to the remining apologists for Boris Johnson. When the inevitable state of affairs results in just HYUFD being the only one daft enough to support King Bullshit, then we might refer to him as Boris Johnson's Fanboy. In the singular.

Actually, I don't think HYUFD is much of a personal fan of Boris - just that he sees him as a proven election winner, no more than that. There are much bigger fans of Boris on here, though they try to travel incognito.

HYUFD will of course correct me if I'm wrong.

Mexicanpete

...

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

ping said:

Fpt (Uganda Homophobia);

felix said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga and the events at Namuwongo, in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key founding myths of the (otherwise improbable) Ugandan nation.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

I was waiting for the first one to blame us for this vote...

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key Ugandan founding myths.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

It’s more of a reaction against colonialism.

France abolished laws against gay sex in 1791, so, it was never a crime in the French Empire. But most former French colonies made it so, after independence.

Most former British colonies made the laws more stringent.

It will still be our fault, somehow.

These post by @Casino_Royale & @felix display extreme ignorance. You’ve both chosen to misrepresent what I posted and turn it into a cheap point in the British right wing culture war.

Do you have even the most basic understanding of Ugandan history? Or the political debate about homosexuality in Uganda since the mid 2000’s?

You don’t think Namugongo is relevant? Why is Uganda so much more hostile to homosexuality vis-a-vis other African countries?

If you are remotely interested/concerned about homophobia in Uganda, you have to understand the political weaponisation of the Uganda martyrs in the project of nation building.

As I said, they’ve taken our colonial bullshit and run with it. How is that not true?

Homosexuality is also illegal in most of the former French colonies in North Africa. South Africa though, which was part of the British Empire, is the only African nation where homosexual marriage is legal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

How many other African countries are ex British Empire, and why aren't they making homosexual marriage legal?

Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the USA are also ex British Empire and also have legal homosexual marriage. The only African nation with legal homosexual marriage as mentioned ex British Empire South Africa

The likely next leader of the Scottish National Party is however opposed to homosexual marriage

Do you need any help getting out of this rabbit hole? Here, take my hand.

MarqueeMark

WhisperingOracle said:

FPT :

Sunak is definitely upping his game. A more pragmatic and less ideologically Thatcherite approach to the strikes, improved Commons performances, and a general sense of him growing into the role.

Some partial improvements in the polls as a result ; it won't be enough to win the Tories the next election, but he might be the only force that could save them from a terrible reduction in seats , and rescue them from irrelevance.

Sunak growing into the role of PM is precisely what Boris failed to do. Great to see the difference between the two.

RochdalePioneers

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

On the WF vote I get the impression the ERG anti are more likely to vote against as they know it will pass

Indeed Rees Mogg said as much

Upto 35 now predicted to vote against

Getting close to the "this only passed thanks to the opposition" threshold. The government's current working majority is 66.

Doesn't matter in the real world (today's big story there is that inflation isn't falling yet), but important in the playground.

No no. Inflation is falling. The PM said so at PMQs so it must be true. Because otherwise we have the PM deliberately misleading parliament on the day when one of his predecessors is up before the beak for deliberately misleading parliament...

Northern_Al

Driver said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Driver said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TOPPING said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DougSeal said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Fearless Forecast - much HEAVY lifting attempted by the PB BoJo Brigade today.

With Fear of Keir way more than palpable, more like pulsating.

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left in the PB BoJo brigade is there? I think most of them have jumped ship. Leon was the last seen on the bridge I think, and then just for the LOLs

@HYUFD struggles but most of us want Johnson gone and in my case have supported Sunak for over a year and do see him as the future of the conservative party and able to mitigate the GE24 result

Today in PMQs he was virtually bouncing with confidence, maybe at the thought of taking on Johnson and the ERG, and his put down of Starmer when Starmer raised Sunak's FPN was perfect

What was it, Big G?

Starmer referred to Sunak's FPN and in his reply Sunak said he wanted to address it directly by saying he arrived at the scheduled meeting and accepted the FPN and apologised, but we all now know that the leader of the opposition was being advised by Sue Gray at the time

How can she have been advising Starmer at the time? She hasn't got the job yet. If Sunak wants to do Johnson's dirty work for him by trashing a dedicated public servant that's not a great endorsement of the idea that he represents a break from Johnsonian sleaze. Still, he got the lolz from the Tory fanbois.

It has been established that Starmer and Gray were in contact in and around November at the time she was advising the privileges committee

But she wasn't advising Starmer at the time.

Sorry, but that's how politics works.

It shows how the Johnson infection of the Tory party is still there. Post-truth politics, and Tory posters on here lap it up.

W
M
D
.

What Motivates Driver?

Luckyguy1983

There were many reasons to depose Boris Johnson and I was glad when it happened. None of those reasons (in my opinion) were that he let No. 10 employees have a shred of respite from their crappy lives by gathering together for some cheap wine and crisps. I also think that Boris's public announcements at the time were clearly with a large 'nod and wink' to people to interpret the rules sensibly rather than follow them to the letter.

Nigel_Foremain

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

ping said:

Fpt (Uganda Homophobia);

felix said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga and the events at Namuwongo, in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key founding myths of the (otherwise improbable) Ugandan nation.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

I was waiting for the first one to blame us for this vote...

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key Ugandan founding myths.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

It’s more of a reaction against colonialism.

France abolished laws against gay sex in 1791, so, it was never a crime in the French Empire. But most former French colonies made it so, after independence.

Most former British colonies made the laws more stringent.

It will still be our fault, somehow.

These post by @Casino_Royale & @felix display extreme ignorance. You’ve both chosen to misrepresent what I posted and turn it into a cheap point in the British right wing culture war.

Do you have even the most basic understanding of Ugandan history? Or the political debate about homosexuality in Uganda since the mid 2000’s?

You don’t think Namugongo is relevant? Why is Uganda so much more hostile to homosexuality vis-a-vis other African countries?

If you are remotely interested/concerned about homophobia in Uganda, you have to understand the political weaponisation of the Uganda martyrs in the project of nation building.

As I said, they’ve taken our colonial bullshit and run with it. How is that not true?

Homosexuality is also illegal in most of the former French colonies in North Africa. South Africa though, which was part of the British Empire, is the only African nation where homosexual marriage is legal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

How many other African countries are ex British Empire, and why aren't they making homosexual marriage legal?

Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the USA are also ex British Empire and also have legal homosexual marriage. The only African nation with legal homosexual marriage as mentioned ex British Empire South Africa

The likely next leader of the Scottish National Party is however opposed to homosexual marriage

So by you gotch eyed logic the BE was also responsible for apartheid? Fair enough.

What are your thoughts on the disproportionate number of Scots who enthusiastically drove the British Empire, or do you perhaps not regard them as "proper" Scots?

kinabalu

Driver said:

kinabalu said:

Northern_Al said:

Sunak will obviously win the Windsor Framework vote this afternoon by a huge majority.
Nevertheless, it would be pretty embarrassing for a government with a large majority to have to rely on opposition parties to win such an important vote. So, I think the number of Tory rebels does matter. I reckon it will be very small.

Impressed you have time to post, Al, with that big new job of supplying Driver with all of Labour's policies.

Well, he obviously doesn't spend his time telling you not to embarrass yourself.

That hasn't happened for ages - certainly not since Monday.

Nigel_Foremain

Luckyguy1983 said:

There were many reasons to depose Boris Johnson and I was glad when it happened. None of those reasons (in my opinion) were that he let No. 10 employees have a shred of respite from their crappy lives by gathering together for some cheap wine and crisps. I also think that Boris's public announcements at the time were clearly with a large 'nod and wink' to people to interpret the rules sensibly rather than follow them to the letter.

Do you not think that it is incumbent on leaders to follow the rules even more observantly than those that they lead?

I certainly think that Margaret Thatcher would think so. The fact that Johnson did not demonstrated him for the over-privileged pigmy that he is.

ping

HYUFD said:

ping said:

Fpt (Uganda Homophobia);

felix said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga and the events at Namuwongo, in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key founding myths of the (otherwise improbable) Ugandan nation.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

I was waiting for the first one to blame us for this vote...

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

ping said:

Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga in the 1880’s.

It’s one of the key Ugandan founding myths.

Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

It’s more of a reaction against colonialism.

France abolished laws against gay sex in 1791, so, it was never a crime in the French Empire. But most former French colonies made it so, after independence.

Most former British colonies made the laws more stringent.

It will still be our fault, somehow.

These post by @Casino_Royale & @felix display extreme ignorance. You’ve both chosen to misrepresent what I posted and turn it into a cheap point in the British right wing culture war.

Do you have even the most basic understanding of Ugandan history? Or the political debate about homosexuality in Uganda since the mid 2000’s?

You don’t think Namugongo is relevant? Why is Uganda so much more hostile to homosexuality vis-a-vis other African countries?

If you are remotely interested/concerned about homophobia in Uganda, you have to understand the political weaponisation of the Uganda martyrs in the project of nation building.

As I said, they’ve taken our colonial bullshit and run with it. How is that not true?

Homosexuality is also illegal in most of the former French colonies in North Africa. South Africa though, which was part of the British Empire, is the only African nation where homosexual marriage is legal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

Legality is one thing, day-to-day social/religious/state repression, another.

Life can be pretty shitty for queers in SA, despite its legality, while being surprisingly unproblematic for queers in other places where homosexuality is illegal.

Homophobia in Uganda is a bit a special case. It is intrinsically linked to colonialism and the legacy of the king of Buganda - Kabaka Mwanga II’s tyrannical rule - his sexual abuse of his male pages, their conversion to Christianity and execution.

The founding myth of the entire, fragile post-colonial entity that is Uganda is rooted in their ancestors being martyred for standing against “homosexuality.” Ugandans largely buy into this interpretation of their history and for many is a key foundation of their faith.

We would see it as a simple abuse of power, the homosexuality and religious angles, unimportant.

But that ain’t how your average Ugandan sees it.

For Museveni, homophobia/homosexuality also plays into his management of the complex relationship between the centre (and the other tribes) and the Baganda.

Last nights vote in Kampala cannot be explained without reference to British colonialism.

The PB right wingers are just, flat out wrong.

kinabalu

Luckyguy1983 said:

There were many reasons to depose Boris Johnson and I was glad when it happened. None of those reasons (in my opinion) were that he let No. 10 employees have a shred of respite from their crappy lives by gathering together for some cheap wine and crisps. I also think that Boris's public announcements at the time were clearly with a large 'nod and wink' to people to interpret the rules sensibly rather than follow them to the letter.

Agreed. It was the relentless lying. You can't be PM if you lie more often than you tell the truth.

Luckyguy1983

Nigel_Foremain said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

There were many reasons to depose Boris Johnson and I was glad when it happened. None of those reasons (in my opinion) were that he let No. 10 employees have a shred of respite from their crappy lives by gathering together for some cheap wine and crisps. I also think that Boris's public announcements at the time were clearly with a large 'nod and wink' to people to interpret the rules sensibly rather than follow them to the letter.

Do you not think that it is incumbent on leaders to follow the rules even more observantly than those that they lead?

I certainly think that Margaret Thatcher would think so. The fact that Johnson did not demonstrated him for the over-privileged pigmy that he is.

No, not really - I don't think they should flout the rules, but I am open to some liberality for the greater good. I think Boris Johnson shouldn't have introduced rules that he himself was unhappy with enforcing on his own team. That was his crime.

williamglenn

biggles said:

TheKitchenCabinet said:

WhisperingOracle said:

FPT :

Sunak is definitely upping his game. A more pragmatic and less ideologically Thatcherite approach to the strikes, improved Commons performances, and a general sense of him growing into the role.

Some partial improvements in the polls as a result ; it won't be enough to win the Tories the next election, but he might be the only force that could save them from a terrible reduction in seats , and rescue them from irrelevance.

Why not? There is 14 months plus to go. He is near level-pegging with Starmer on Best PM rating and he clearly has momentum. Starmer, OTOH, hasn't really done a huge amount when it comes to the voters for a while.

I have been wondering if there has been a chance in the number 10 team no one noticed. There’s sees to be a grip on Government affairs we haven’t see since the Coalition.

"Grip" is coincidentally one of Sunak's favourite pieces of policy wonk jargon.

JosiasJessop

A new report on Covid's origins points towards a natural spillover:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03/heres-the-full-analysis-of-newly-uncovered-genetic-data-on-covids-origins/

Though Chinese secrecy isn't helping matters, as ever...

Andy_JS

Voting against Sunak's deal.

Boris Johnson
Liz Truss
IDS
Priti Patel
John Redwood
Peter Bone
Jacob Rees-Mogg
Mark Francois
James Duddridge
Andrea Jenkyns

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/22/conservative-mps-who-will-vote-against-ni-brexit-deal/