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Unhappy Valley – politicalbetting.com

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  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    WillG said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    It’s just worse and worse for Labour this week.

    They just can’t do the spring campaign season at all, can they? It’s got to be worrying for Labour support now, under Starmer, campaigning is just so weak, easily knocked off their grid, easily outflanked by the Tories every year now.
    Evening, Tory Girl :lol:
    Behave! Naughty Sunil. It’s a fact, these run ups to spring elections every year now have seen all sorts of bad Starmer stories appear in papers to drive the news narrative, rising Tory ratings, sinking labour ratings, and eventually, and watch for it it’s proves me right, Labour eventually whining they weren’t able to get their positive message across.
    So you’re blaming Starmer for right wing trash papers printing daily hatchet jobs . Not sure I understand that logic .
    Starmer ain't going to win an election with a policy of "Tory policies, but with a pained expression".

    Surely he can see that?
    That's the only way Labour win general elections. That is why the only Labour leader to win one in 40 years is Tony Blair.
    It's almost 50 years now: Wilson won in 1973.

    Edit to add, 1974. Sorry.
    Although of course 1974 didn't give Labour a working majority for 4 or 5 years. The first election that year was a hung parliament, and the second gave them a tiny majority which only lasted for about 18 months due to by-election losses. After that they were reliant on the Liberals and the SNP. You have to go back to 1966 to find a Labour election victory with a working majority where the leader wasn't Tony Blair.
    In fairness to him, I think Brown can claim at least half of 2005.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,095
    nico679 said:

    Apparently Johnson will swear on a Bible tomorrow .

    This isn’t normally part of giving evidence to these committees but clearly shows how desperate the fat lying oaf is to save his skin.

    That's a bit try hard from him. The problem is everyone knows he is much more untruthful than the average politician, and he's gotten a pass for that, and now he isn't he thinks if he promises really hard that he is being truthful this time it will be more convincing. It won't. He's angry that people are inclined to disbelieve him, but who's fault is that?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    nico679 said:

    Apparently Johnson will swear on a Bible tomorrow .

    This isn’t normally part of giving evidence to these committees but clearly shows how desperate the fat lying oaf is to save his skin.

    Profanity or an affirmation?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,095
    Horse_B said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating in the Red Wall is -21%, his second lowest rating in these seats as PM.

    Rishi Sunak Red Wall Net Approval Rating (19 March):

    Disapprove: 47% (+3)
    Approve: 26% (–)
    Net: -21% (-3)

    Changes +/- 5 March

    The polling is curious. The Tories are apparently going up in the Red Wall yet Sunak’s rankings here continue to sink.

    They like the recent focus on Braverman-esque stories, so give a better rating to the party even as they still don't like him?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    I can’t find the right email address to claim my own. Is there a long queue?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,012
    nico679 said:

    Apparently Johnson will swear on a Bible tomorrow .

    This isn’t normally part of giving evidence to these committees but clearly shows how desperate the fat lying oaf is to save his skin.

    Which of the Ten Commandments will he be breaking this week?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    kle4 said:

    Horse_B said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating in the Red Wall is -21%, his second lowest rating in these seats as PM.

    Rishi Sunak Red Wall Net Approval Rating (19 March):

    Disapprove: 47% (+3)
    Approve: 26% (–)
    Net: -21% (-3)

    Changes +/- 5 March

    The polling is curious. The Tories are apparently going up in the Red Wall yet Sunak’s rankings here continue to sink.

    They like the recent focus on Braverman-esque stories, so give a better rating to the party even as they still don't like him?
    A binary question is also very different. 53% do not disapprove, which is entirely consistent with the 38% (?) Tory vote in those areas.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited March 2023

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    ...

    It's one Poll. Can't believe everyone is suddenly thinking Lab won't have the next PM.

    It is looking very, very bleak for those of us who are tired of the Conservatives. You have a point that Sunak is a 10/10 performer whilst Starmer barely makes a 0. There is more to it than just Starmer's poor performance, we are just not a left of centre nation. Sunak-Tories have quite cleverly positioned themselves as both centre right and extreme right which Hoovers up the 40 per cent they need for a permanent reasonable majority. The one positive is when Sunak prevails Johnson is finished
    I'm guessing you're taking the piss. If not you have serious issues of judgement. The Tories have disqualified themselves and the public will not vote for them in sufficient numbers for at least two elections. Very possibly more. They are a very dead parrot and no amount of resuscitation will help in the foreseeable future
    Have you not been paying any attention this week? 🙄
    I haven't as it happens but as with any mass change of mind weeks or months even never change anything significantly. What Daily Mail Front Page have I missed?
    The telegraph actually. Plus a steady drip of remarkable poll movements in Sunak’s rating and Tories cutting into Labours lead.

    Blimey, that's an unflattering photo the Telegraph have found. Interesting that their Back Boris story is fairly small print, tucked away on the edge of the front page.
    Not small print on the mail, and no doubt to about their verdict.



    Really hotting up now politics, so much going on. 🥵
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I broadly agree with the thrust of the thread header and what many have said. However, linking it back to electoral politics can I be a cynical git for a moment?

    If Labour goes all in on police reform, there’s a massive opportunity (electorally - I am not saying I agree with it, in fact I hate the idea) for the Tories to “defend” the “majority of decent coppers” against them. Like the Rwanda stuff, it would play well for the voters they want. Put brutally, those protesting over Sarah Everard probably mostly didn’t vote Tory anyway. Ironically, this would have been a perfect moment for Theresa May as Home Secretary as I’m sure she’d have reformed the police. I think Braverman will go the other way.

    Being extra cynical, if I’m right about all that then ask yourself this: if party A wants to reform Police Force X and spoil the fun, but party B holds back, and Police Force X polices both of their places of work, what do you think the chances are of criminal issues starting to emerge around party A whenever there’s half a case whilst anything about party B vanishes? I think high.

    I am not sure I agree. The police are now so poorly regarded by so many across he political spectrum and amongst all classes that I think they have soaked up whatever natural reservoir of sympathy and support they once had. People see them as fundamentally no longer fit for purpose as an organisation - even though the majority of those actually doing the job are doing their best. I don't see much support coming to the Tories from defending et another vested interest group.
    I think you’d be surprised. Many think the police are failing, but they also think the answer is to “allow” then to go back to “giving a clip round the ear” and to let them beat up some criminals.

    I hope I’m wrong, but I think there’s enough of that about to allow Starmer to be cast as “weak on crime” if he’s not careful.
    Given how few crimes the police actually investigate - fraud, no; burglary, no; car theft, no; bicycle theft - you have got to be joking; mugging, no; rape - sort of but we'll cock it up, threats of violence, no, knife crime - well, we'll try, the "weak on crime" label is more properly applied to the police.
    This is why we need a rival police force, Sheriffs, with overlapping responsibilities. Make them compete for budgets and see who can get higher clear up rates and solve more crime.
    Let's just go full Jonathan Wilde and have a top thief be a top thief taker. There's synergy there.
    "To protect the sheep you gotta catch the wolf, and it takes a wolf to catch a wolf."
    - Denzel Washington in "Training Day".
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,379
    Anybody interested in a cogent, objective article (by David Cowling) on why betting on a Labour majority at the next GE may be unwise need look no further than Labour List (much more objective than the Telegraph, anyway):

    https://labourlist.org/2023/03/labours-poll-lead-is-very-impressive-but-victory-remains-far-from-assured/
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300
    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    Roger, I do read articles in a wide range of UK newspapers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,095

    nico679 said:

    Apparently Johnson will swear on a Bible tomorrow .

    This isn’t normally part of giving evidence to these committees but clearly shows how desperate the fat lying oaf is to save his skin.

    Which of the Ten Commandments will he be breaking this week?
    Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    Horse_B said:

    Rishi Sunak's approval rating in the Red Wall is -21%, his second lowest rating in these seats as PM.

    Rishi Sunak Red Wall Net Approval Rating (19 March):

    Disapprove: 47% (+3)
    Approve: 26% (–)
    Net: -21% (-3)

    Changes +/- 5 March

    The polling is curious. The Tories are apparently going up in the Red Wall yet Sunak’s rankings here continue to sink.

    Two things interacting, I reckon. Compared with his predecessors, Sunak is calm and competent, and that's pulling up the Conservative party ratings a bit. But every newish PM starts off popular (blank slate you can project hopes onto) before getting less so as reality hits. It's true even for the effective, sucessful ones.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,095
    edited March 2023

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I broadly agree with the thrust of the thread header and what many have said. However, linking it back to electoral politics can I be a cynical git for a moment?

    If Labour goes all in on police reform, there’s a massive opportunity (electorally - I am not saying I agree with it, in fact I hate the idea) for the Tories to “defend” the “majority of decent coppers” against them. Like the Rwanda stuff, it would play well for the voters they want. Put brutally, those protesting over Sarah Everard probably mostly didn’t vote Tory anyway. Ironically, this would have been a perfect moment for Theresa May as Home Secretary as I’m sure she’d have reformed the police. I think Braverman will go the other way.

    Being extra cynical, if I’m right about all that then ask yourself this: if party A wants to reform Police Force X and spoil the fun, but party B holds back, and Police Force X polices both of their places of work, what do you think the chances are of criminal issues starting to emerge around party A whenever there’s half a case whilst anything about party B vanishes? I think high.

    I am not sure I agree. The police are now so poorly regarded by so many across he political spectrum and amongst all classes that I think they have soaked up whatever natural reservoir of sympathy and support they once had. People see them as fundamentally no longer fit for purpose as an organisation - even though the majority of those actually doing the job are doing their best. I don't see much support coming to the Tories from defending et another vested interest group.
    I think you’d be surprised. Many think the police are failing, but they also think the answer is to “allow” then to go back to “giving a clip round the ear” and to let them beat up some criminals.

    I hope I’m wrong, but I think there’s enough of that about to allow Starmer to be cast as “weak on crime” if he’s not careful.
    Given how few crimes the police actually investigate - fraud, no; burglary, no; car theft, no; bicycle theft - you have got to be joking; mugging, no; rape - sort of but we'll cock it up, threats of violence, no, knife crime - well, we'll try, the "weak on crime" label is more properly applied to the police.
    This is why we need a rival police force, Sheriffs, with overlapping responsibilities. Make them compete for budgets and see who can get higher clear up rates and solve more crime.
    Let's just go full Jonathan Wilde and have a top thief be a top thief taker. There's synergy there.
    "To protect the sheep you gotta catch the wolf, and it takes a wolf to catch a wolf."
    - Denzel Washington in "Training Day".
    Yeah, but people only say that sort of thing when they are actually justthugs who feel the need to disguise their hypocrisy by making it seem noble.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    I would be very surprised if Rishi chooses to introduce tax avoidance into his election campaign!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    ...

    It's one Poll. Can't believe everyone is suddenly thinking Lab won't have the next PM.

    It is looking very, very bleak for those of us who are tired of the Conservatives. You have a point that Sunak is a 10/10 performer whilst Starmer barely makes a 0. There is more to it than just Starmer's poor performance, we are just not a left of centre nation. Sunak-Tories have quite cleverly positioned themselves as both centre right and extreme right which Hoovers up the 40 per cent they need for a permanent reasonable majority. The one positive is when Sunak prevails Johnson is finished
    I'm guessing you're taking the piss. If not you have serious issues of judgement. The Tories have disqualified themselves and the public will not vote for them in sufficient numbers for at least two elections. Very possibly more. They are a very dead parrot and no amount of resuscitation will help in the foreseeable future
    Have you not been paying any attention this week? 🙄
    I haven't as it happens but as with any mass change of mind weeks or months even never change anything significantly. What Daily Mail Front Page have I missed?
    The telegraph actually. Plus a steady drip of remarkable poll movements in Sunak’s rating and Tories cutting into Labours lead.

    Blimey, that's an unflattering photo the Telegraph have found. Interesting that their Back Boris story is fairly small print, tucked away on the edge of the front page.
    Not small print on the mail, and no doubt to about their verdict.



    Really hotting up now politics, so much going on. 🥵
    Though a really careless typo in the first word of that headline. They've missed out a "T" and jumbled the last few letters up as well.

    Sloppy editing.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Was this advice from his legal team because the vast majority of the public know he’s a pathological liar and using the Bible as some prop looks pretty awful even by his own low standards
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929
    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    I would be very surprised if Rishi chooses to introduce tax avoidance into his election campaign!
    I don't think Sunak is doing anything, it's a story in the Telegraph.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    Legislation introduced by a Tory government.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    ...

    It's one Poll. Can't believe everyone is suddenly thinking Lab won't have the next PM.

    It is looking very, very bleak for those of us who are tired of the Conservatives. You have a point that Sunak is a 10/10 performer whilst Starmer barely makes a 0. There is more to it than just Starmer's poor performance, we are just not a left of centre nation. Sunak-Tories have quite cleverly positioned themselves as both centre right and extreme right which Hoovers up the 40 per cent they need for a permanent reasonable majority. The one positive is when Sunak prevails Johnson is finished
    I'm guessing you're taking the piss. If not you have serious issues of judgement. The Tories have disqualified themselves and the public will not vote for them in sufficient numbers for at least two elections. Very possibly more. They are a very dead parrot and no amount of resuscitation will help in the foreseeable future
    Have you not been paying any attention this week? 🙄
    I haven't as it happens but as with any mass change of mind weeks or months even never change anything significantly. What Daily Mail Front Page have I missed?
    The telegraph actually. Plus a steady drip of remarkable poll movements in Sunak’s rating and Tories cutting into Labours lead.


    Blimey, that's an unflattering photo the Telegraph have found. Interesting that their Back Boris story is fairly small print, tucked away on the edge of the front page.
    It might work if people thought he was a crooked tax avoider. They don't so as a story it 'll just reflect on the Telegraph
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited March 2023
    kle4 said:

    Meanwhile. Sunak Oversold Brexit Deal to DUP, Minister claims, on the eye. 🤔

    I’m claiming we have seen peak WF now, all we will hear from here is what’s wrong with it. But it only really hurts Sunak when he makes it law, tying himself to everything wrong with it, and the unwelcome headlines and grievances that will keep happening.

    So what we're being told is that those supporting a proposal talk it up, and those opposed to it talk it down.

    Someone stop those presses right now.
    No. I’m saying it enters the phase now where everything that goes right wont ever get noticed or remarked on, but everything that goes wrong will fill newspaper front pages and Sunak will be attacked from behind him at PMQs.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    Legislation introduced by a Tory government.
    Working with the Tories to enrich himself? Tut tut.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052

    kle4 said:

    Meanwhile. Sunak Oversold Brexit Deal to DUP, Minister claims, on the eye. 🤔

    I’m claiming we have seen peak WF now, all we will hear from here is what’s wrong with it. But it only really hurts Sunak when he makes it law, tying himself to everything wrong with it, and the unwelcome headlines and grievances that will keep happening.

    So what we're being told is that those supporting a proposal talk it up, and those opposed to it talk it down.

    Someone stop those presses right now.
    No. I’m saying it enters the phase now where everything that goes right wont ever get noticed or remarked on, but everything that goes wrong will fill newspaper front pages and Sunak will be attacked from behind him at PMQs.
    Not so sure. I think the deal is calibrated (and the EU/Ireland willing to play ball) such that day to day issues will fall away. Anything esoteric might be need in Stormont (should there be one) but not in Westminster.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    edited March 2023
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    Legislation introduced by a Tory government.
    Working with the Tories to enrich himself? Tut tut.
    “Vote Tory - we even made the Labour leader richer”.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    Meanwhile. Sunak Oversold Brexit Deal to DUP, Minister claims, on the eye. 🤔

    I’m claiming we have seen peak WF now, all we will hear from here is what’s wrong with it. But it only really hurts Sunak when he makes it law, tying himself to everything wrong with it, and the unwelcome headlines and grievances that will keep happening.

    So what we're being told is that those supporting a proposal talk it up, and those opposed to it talk it down.

    Someone stop those presses right now.
    No. I’m saying it enters the phase now where everything that goes right wont ever get noticed or remarked on, but everything that goes wrong will fill newspaper front pages and Sunak will be attacked from behind him at PMQs.
    Not so sure. I think the deal is calibrated (and the EU/Ireland willing to play ball) such that day to day issues will fall away. Anything esoteric might be need in Stormont (should there be one) but not in Westminster.
    We’ll see 😁
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433
    linto said:

    Cyclefree said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I broadly agree with the thrust of the thread header and what many have said. However, linking it back to electoral politics can I be a cynical git for a moment?

    If Labour goes all in on police reform, there’s a massive opportunity (electorally - I am not saying I agree with it, in fact I hate the idea) for the Tories to “defend” the “majority of decent coppers” against them. Like the Rwanda stuff, it would play well for the voters they want. Put brutally, those protesting over Sarah Everard probably mostly didn’t vote Tory anyway. Ironically, this would have been a perfect moment for Theresa May as Home Secretary as I’m sure she’d have reformed the police. I think Braverman will go the other way.

    Being extra cynical, if I’m right about all that then ask yourself this: if party A wants to reform Police Force X and spoil the fun, but party B holds back, and Police Force X polices both of their places of work, what do you think the chances are of criminal issues starting to emerge around party A whenever there’s half a case whilst anything about party B vanishes? I think high.

    I am not sure I agree. The police are now so poorly regarded by so many across he political spectrum and amongst all classes that I think they have soaked up whatever natural reservoir of sympathy and support they once had. People see them as fundamentally no longer fit for purpose as an organisation - even though the majority of those actually doing the job are doing their best. I don't see much support coming to the Tories from defending et another vested interest group.
    I think you’d be surprised. Many think the police are failing, but they also think the answer is to “allow” then to go back to “giving a clip round the ear” and to let them beat up some criminals.

    I hope I’m wrong, but I think there’s enough of that about to allow Starmer to be cast as “weak on crime” if he’s not careful.
    Given how few crimes the police actually investigate - fraud, no; burglary, no; car theft, no; bicycle theft - you have got to be joking; mugging, no; rape - sort of but we'll cock it up, threats of violence, no, knife crime - well, we'll try, the "weak on crime" label is more properly applied to the police.
    This is why we need a rival police force, Sheriffs, with overlapping responsibilities. Make them compete for budgets and see who can get higher clear up rates and solve more crime.
    Rival investigators would lead to some horrendous problems, just look at the US where forces actively target and over police poor and vulnerable parts of society as their income is directly funded by the fines and money recovered.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/31/us/police-ticket-quotas-money-funding.html
    I do think a properly reasoned reform pitch would work, there's been enough cut through for many to recognise something needs doing. It's just a shame the current lot seem more interested in dinghy's and cheap headlines than difficult but necessary legwork to make reforms work.


    A bit of overpolicing sounds good to me.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited March 2023
    nico679 said:

    Apparently Johnson will swear on a Bible tomorrow .

    This isn’t normally part of giving evidence to these committees but clearly shows how desperate the fat lying oaf is to save his skin.

    Why is that a surprise? We all know Boris is a devout Roman Catholic (in the confession box at least)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,095
    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    It is pretty hilarious he has his own statutory instrument. Has anyone gone so far as to have an Act named after them?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Is it really worth staying at the Hilton just so you can stay at the Hilton? I find them anodyne. Not cheap, but not interesting either.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    It is pretty hilarious he has his own statutory instrument. Has anyone gone so far as to have an Act named after them?
    Didn’t they used to have to pass one for every divorce?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    ydoethur said:

    It's remarkable that Blair was the only Labour leader born since the end of the first repeat First World War to win a majority at a general election.

    Admittedly there have only been three.

    “Born in the last hundred years” is more impactful
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,750
    Pretty devastating indictment of Nicola Sturgeon by a very well kent and pro-indy commentator.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeon-has-destroyed-her-own-reputation/

    "I don’t know about voter’s remorse but there was precious little remorse from Nicola Sturgeon on Loose Women on Monday for the chaos she inflicted on her party by resigning in pique without giving it a chance to organise an orderly transition. She showed all the insouciance of a teenager who had just wrecked the family car. Nothing to do with me – it’s really your fault for giving me the keys."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,095
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Apparently Johnson will swear on a Bible tomorrow .

    This isn’t normally part of giving evidence to these committees but clearly shows how desperate the fat lying oaf is to save his skin.

    Why is that a surprise? We all know Boris is a devout Roman Catholic (in the confession box at least)
    If it is not usual for people to swear on a holy book when giving evidence (and that appears to be the case from a light google - even formally making them swear to tell the truth appears to be atypical) then his doing so is just theatrics. Indeed, it being unusual may make his doing do highlight that he (or they) think he can only be trusted to tell the truth if he swears on a holy book, which actually paints him in a bad light.

    Most people are truthful even when they are not under oath.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    It is pretty hilarious he has his own statutory instrument. Has anyone gone so far as to have an Act named after them?
    The Keir Starmer Platinum Enrichment Fund.

    Meanwhile, in better news of leadership and caring for working class people from the Express


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,095

    Pretty devastating indictment of Nicola Sturgeon by a very well kent and pro-indy commentator.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeon-has-destroyed-her-own-reputation/

    "I don’t know about voter’s remorse but there was precious little remorse from Nicola Sturgeon on Loose Women on Monday for the chaos she inflicted on her party by resigning in pique without giving it a chance to organise an orderly transition. She showed all the insouciance of a teenager who had just wrecked the family car. Nothing to do with me – it’s really your fault for giving me the keys."

    It sounded better when Pericles said it:

    If you were persuaded by me to go to war because you thought I had the qualities necessary for leadership at least moderately more than other men, it is not right that I should now be blamed for doing wrong.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    biggles said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    Legislation introduced by a Tory government.
    Working with the Tories to enrich himself? Tut tut.
    “Vote Tory - we even made the Labour leader richer”.
    Wow! That's catchy
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    I would be very surprised if Rishi chooses to introduce tax avoidance into his election campaign!
    Indeed. Some very weird posts tonight.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,095
    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    It is pretty hilarious he has his own statutory instrument. Has anyone gone so far as to have an Act named after them?
    Didn’t they used to have to pass one for every divorce?
    Good catch!

    https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/relationships/collections1/from-the-parliamentary-collections-divorce/addisoncampbell-divorce/
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Is it really worth staying at the Hilton just so you can stay at the Hilton? I find them anodyne. Not cheap, but not interesting either.

    What's your opinion on Hotel Indigo?

    Do you know which hotels have the largest baths?

    What hotel would you most recommend?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    It is pretty hilarious he has his own statutory instrument. Has anyone gone so far as to have an Act named after them?
    Didn’t they used to have to pass one for every divorce?
    Good catch!

    https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/relationships/collections1/from-the-parliamentary-collections-divorce/addisoncampbell-divorce/
    “Sorry, I know I said I’d get it done in time for you to remarry at Easter but we’re stuck behind the third reading of the Finance Act”.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    Roger said:

    biggles said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    Legislation introduced by a Tory government.
    Working with the Tories to enrich himself? Tut tut.
    “Vote Tory - we even made the Labour leader richer”.
    Wow! That's catchy
    So much goes over your head it must feel like you live under a flight path.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    Is it really worth staying at the Hilton just so you can stay at the Hilton? I find them anodyne. Not cheap, but not interesting either.

    What's your opinion on Hotel Indigo?

    Do you know which hotels have the largest baths?

    What hotel would you most recommend?
    And

    Have you ever been to the Hotel California?

    Is it true you saw Lenny Henry in a Premier Inn?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,355
    edited March 2023
    Mostly, I agree, save for the last.

    The RUC got put to the sword for being too good at fighting the face-eating leopards.

    The PSNI is more accommodating towards face-eating leopards, as the Belfast Agreement requires them to be.

    In a normal society, John Caldwell would be considered an outstanding detective. In Northern Ireland, he went after people he was supposed to leave alone.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    Sean_F said:

    Mostly, I agree, save for the last.

    The RUC got put to the sword for being too good at fighting the face-eating leopards.

    The PSNI is more accommodating towards face-eating leopards, as the Belfast Agreement requires them to be.

    Yes, the RUC was disbanded as a gesture (like taking down the watch towers). Not quite the same thing.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited March 2023

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I broadly agree with the thrust of the thread header and what many have said. However, linking it back to electoral politics can I be a cynical git for a moment?

    If Labour goes all in on police reform, there’s a massive opportunity (electorally - I am not saying I agree with it, in fact I hate the idea) for the Tories to “defend” the “majority of decent coppers” against them. Like the Rwanda stuff, it would play well for the voters they want. Put brutally, those protesting over Sarah Everard probably mostly didn’t vote Tory anyway. Ironically, this would have been a perfect moment for Theresa May as Home Secretary as I’m sure she’d have reformed the police. I think Braverman will go the other way.

    Being extra cynical, if I’m right about all that then ask yourself this: if party A wants to reform Police Force X and spoil the fun, but party B holds back, and Police Force X polices both of their places of work, what do you think the chances are of criminal issues starting to emerge around party A whenever there’s half a case whilst anything about party B vanishes? I think high.

    I am not sure I agree. The police are now so poorly regarded by so many across he political spectrum and amongst all classes that I think they have soaked up whatever natural reservoir of sympathy and support they once had. People see them as fundamentally no longer fit for purpose as an organisation - even though the majority of those actually doing the job are doing their best. I don't see much support coming to the Tories from defending et another vested interest group.
    I think you’d be surprised. Many think the police are failing, but they also think the answer is to “allow” then to go back to “giving a clip round the ear” and to let them beat up some criminals.

    I hope I’m wrong, but I think there’s enough of that about to allow Starmer to be cast as “weak on crime” if he’s not careful.
    Given how few crimes the police actually investigate - fraud, no; burglary, no; car theft, no; bicycle theft - you have got to be joking; mugging, no; rape - sort of but we'll cock it up, threats of violence, no, knife crime - well, we'll try, the "weak on crime" label is more properly applied to the police.
    This is why we need a rival police force, Sheriffs, with overlapping responsibilities. Make them compete for budgets and see who can get higher clear up rates and solve more crime.
    Let's just go full Jonathan Wilde and have a top thief be a top thief taker. There's synergy there.
    "To protect the sheep you gotta catch the wolf, and it takes a wolf to catch a wolf."
    - Denzel Washington in "Training Day".
    Once you kill a cow, you gotta make a burger - Lady Gaga
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    edited March 2023

    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    I would be very surprised if Rishi chooses to introduce tax avoidance into his election campaign!
    Indeed. Some very weird posts tonight.
    The Tories on here have been buoyed by a poll showing the Tories on -10 having fluctuated in two weeks from -16 to -23. We haven't seen movements like that since they gave respondents clapometers
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300

    Pretty devastating indictment of Nicola Sturgeon by a very well kent and pro-indy commentator.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeon-has-destroyed-her-own-reputation/

    "I don’t know about voter’s remorse but there was precious little remorse from Nicola Sturgeon on Loose Women on Monday for the chaos she inflicted on her party by resigning in pique without giving it a chance to organise an orderly transition. She showed all the insouciance of a teenager who had just wrecked the family car. Nothing to do with me – it’s really your fault for giving me the keys."

    Ouch!
    "Transition planning does not just mean trying to bounce your favourite mediocrity into the top slot to make you look good. It means giving the party time and space to reflect and to organise a leadership contest that attracts all the talents in the party and gives them time to fashion a new agenda for the future. It does not mean saying, in effect, ‘I’m outta here, bye suckers."
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeon-has-destroyed-her-own-reputation/
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    ...

    It's one Poll. Can't believe everyone is suddenly thinking Lab won't have the next PM.

    It is looking very, very bleak for those of us who are tired of the Conservatives. You have a point that Sunak is a 10/10 performer whilst Starmer barely makes a 0. There is more to it than just Starmer's poor performance, we are just not a left of centre nation. Sunak-Tories have quite cleverly positioned themselves as both centre right and extreme right which Hoovers up the 40 per cent they need for a permanent reasonable majority. The one positive is when Sunak prevails Johnson is finished
    I'm guessing you're taking the piss. If not you have serious issues of judgement. The Tories have disqualified themselves and the public will not vote for them in sufficient numbers for at least two elections. Very possibly more. They are a very dead parrot and no amount of resuscitation will help in the foreseeable future
    Have you not been paying any attention this week? 🙄
    I haven't as it happens but as with any mass change of mind weeks or months even never change anything significantly. What Daily Mail Front Page have I missed?
    The telegraph actually. Plus a steady drip of remarkable poll movements in Sunak’s rating and Tories cutting into Labours lead.


    Hypocrite Nailed 🤤

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64972143
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,355
    Nigelb said:
    Blimey!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited March 2023
    Nigelb said:
    And the social divide between the Western world and Africa and the Middle East gets even bigger
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300

    Pretty devastating indictment of Nicola Sturgeon by a very well kent and pro-indy commentator.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeon-has-destroyed-her-own-reputation/

    "I don’t know about voter’s remorse but there was precious little remorse from Nicola Sturgeon on Loose Women on Monday for the chaos she inflicted on her party by resigning in pique without giving it a chance to organise an orderly transition. She showed all the insouciance of a teenager who had just wrecked the family car. Nothing to do with me – it’s really your fault for giving me the keys."

    This is also worth a read. Stephen Daisley - Don’t rush for tickets on Nicola Sturgeon’s farewell tour
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/dont-rush-for-tickets-on-nicola-sturgeons-farewell-tour/

    One prediction, I simple do not believe that Nicola Sturgeon is going to give up her chauffeur driven ministerial car and quietly retire to the SNP backbenches at Holyrood for the next three years. So its now not a case of if she will stand down as an MSP, but simple when she will announce her intention to do so in the coming months.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300
    Nigelb said:
    That is horrific.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited March 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    And the social divide between the Western world and Africa and the Middle East gets even bigger
    387 out of 389 lawmakers voted for it according to the report.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited March 2023
    Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga and the events at Namuwongo, in the 1880’s.

    It’s one of the key founding myths of the (otherwise improbable) Ugandan nation.

    Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

    They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,355
    ping said:

    Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga in the 1880’s.

    It’s one of the key Ugandan founding myths.

    Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

    They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

    It’s more of a reaction against colonialism.

    France abolished laws against gay sex in 1791, so, it was never a crime in the French Empire. But most former French colonies made it so, after independence.

    Most former British colonies made the laws more stringent.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited March 2023
    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga in the 1880’s.

    It’s one of the key Ugandan founding myths.

    Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

    They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

    It’s more of a reaction against colonialism.

    France abolished laws against gay sex in 1791, so, it was never a crime in the French Empire. But most former French colonies made it so, after independence.

    Most former British colonies made the laws more stringent.
    Not in Uganda’s case. What happened at Namugongo - or, more accurately, the myth about what happened at Namugongo - is crucial to understanding why homophobia resonates so strongly in contemporary Ugandan society.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799

    Is it really worth staying at the Hilton just so you can stay at the Hilton? I find them anodyne. Not cheap, but not interesting either.

    I stayed at a Hilton once. It was neither expensive nor uninteresting. It was in the Beetham Tower in Manchester. Few finer views from a building in England. I felt obliged to sleep with the curtains open.
    I have no recollection of anything about the inside of a hotel; apart from the view it didn't strike me as qualitatively different from a Premier Inn. (Nothing wrong with a Premier Inn, in my book.)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "How TikTok broke social media

    Whether or not it is banned, the app has forced its rivals to adopt a less lucrative model"

    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/03/21/how-tiktok-broke-social-media
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,565
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    fitalass said:

    The Telegraph - ‘Hypocrite’ Starmer to avoid tax on pension
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/hyprocrite-starmer-avoid-tax-pension/
    "Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after it emerged that he has a unique pension deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions which allows him to avoid tax on his savings..."

    I'm sure HMRC allowed Starmer to make a unique deal to avoid tax. Try a different newspaper!
    He even has his own legislation about it:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2588/contents/made
    I would be very surprised if Rishi chooses to introduce tax avoidance into his election campaign!
    Indeed. Some very weird posts tonight.
    The Tories on here have been buoyed by a poll showing the Tories on -10 having fluctuated in two weeks from -16 to -23. We haven't seen movements like that since they gave respondents clapometers
    "Remember, folks! The clap-o-meter is just for fun!"
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,565

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    ...

    It's one Poll. Can't believe everyone is suddenly thinking Lab won't have the next PM.

    It is looking very, very bleak for those of us who are tired of the Conservatives. You have a point that Sunak is a 10/10 performer whilst Starmer barely makes a 0. There is more to it than just Starmer's poor performance, we are just not a left of centre nation. Sunak-Tories have quite cleverly positioned themselves as both centre right and extreme right which Hoovers up the 40 per cent they need for a permanent reasonable majority. The one positive is when Sunak prevails Johnson is finished
    I'm guessing you're taking the piss. If not you have serious issues of judgement. The Tories have disqualified themselves and the public will not vote for them in sufficient numbers for at least two elections. Very possibly more. They are a very dead parrot and no amount of resuscitation will help in the foreseeable future
    Have you not been paying any attention this week? 🙄
    I haven't as it happens but as with any mass change of mind weeks or months even never change anything significantly. What Daily Mail Front Page have I missed?
    The telegraph actually. Plus a steady drip of remarkable poll movements in Sunak’s rating and Tories cutting into Labours lead.


    Blimey, that's an unflattering photo the Telegraph have found. Interesting that their Back Boris story is fairly small print, tucked away on the edge of the front page.
    Who ate all the pies?

    Or maybe, curries?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    ping said:

    Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga and the events at Namuwongo, in the 1880’s.

    It’s one of the key founding myths of the (otherwise improbable) Ugandan nation.

    Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

    They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

    I was waiting for the first one to blame us for this vote...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,897
    New thread.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589
    edited March 2023
    Seeing people defend Keir 'Statutory instrument' Starmer over this is hilarious.

    Man of the people, indeed!

    Although to be fair, this is perhaps the most exciting story about him.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    Contemporary Ugandan attitudes towards homosexuality are heavily influenced by the legacy of Kabaka Mwanga in the 1880’s.

    It’s one of the key Ugandan founding myths.

    Very little journalism covering the story shows any understanding of this.

    They’ve taken our bullshit colonialism and run with it.

    It’s more of a reaction against colonialism.

    France abolished laws against gay sex in 1791, so, it was never a crime in the French Empire. But most former French colonies made it so, after independence.

    Most former British colonies made the laws more stringent.
    It will still be our fault, somehow.
This discussion has been closed.