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Lineker gets his job back with the BBC bosses the losers – politicalbetting.com

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  • Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    Plenty of answers are always given. People like you never listen then say you have no answers.

    As migrants have said. They speak English not other languages. They have family / friends here. They hope to go to school / university here and become a doctor. To name a few.

    Besides, you're relying on the misplaced notion that they are "migrating here from a safe country." They are not. They are migrating from whatever unsafe country they are fleeing. They are passing through other safe countries which international law makes explicit the lie that they have to claim asylum in the first safe country they reach.

    Really would be easier if people just said their preferred cap for asylum is zero. We know Tory Mince MPs will propose it claiming support, how about the supporters saying who they are.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,802

    I'm not sure that the government's strategy of creating 'enemies within' is going to be successful - it's all just too divisive, and doesn't appeal enough outside the right-wing vote.

    And it's not just Braverman - Sunak is guilty too. Listen to him at PMQs. Last week he was accusing Starmer of being a 'lefty lawyer' who wants 'open borders', and has played the 'North London metropolitan elite' card frequently.
    I hope he gets his swimming pool sorted, though, as a man of the people.

    A pedant notes: someone opposing open borders is identifying enemies without, not enemies within.

    Anyway, you can't make concern about immigration go away by character assasinations on anyone who opposes it. Surely no-one except Jeremy Corbyn wants the UK to accommodate everyone who wants to come here? There are literally billions. All we are arguing about is how many and whom. Almost noone opposes Ukrainians or Hong Kong Chinese, for example, who are fleeing genuine danger at home and who integrate well It's just a question of how many immigrants each of us think is too many.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Today's Yougov/Sky SNP leadership poll finds all the SNP leadership candidates with a net unfavourable rating.

    Yousaf had 22% saying he would be a good FM, 44% bad. Forbes had 27% saying she would be a good FM and 36% bad. Regan had 14% saying she would be a good FM and 39% bad.

    Just 8% thought Yousaf would be better than Sturgeon, 6% thought Regan would be better and 17% Forbes an improvement on the current FM
    https://news.sky.com/story/snp-leadership-scottish-independence-support-at-just-39-poll-says-12832783

    Hmm, Ms Forbes at -9 in Scotland better than Mr Sunak at -19 in the UK as a whole (which has more Tories) on the old favourability rating I see.
    Yousaf at -22% in Scotland doing worse than Rishi in the UK however
    The same, really. There is this thing called statistical error.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    May I raise my feeble voice, in favor of remitting the ban(s) on the banned? At least the usual (non-bot) suspects?

    If so, I do!
  • Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    *wearily*
    In many cases because English is their second language and they already have friends and family here.

    Why do so many more go to eg France and Germany d’ye think?
    They don't. No other country takes scroungers. They all come here because they get a free BMW and golf lessons.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    *wearily*
    In many cases because English is their second language and they already have friends and family here.

    Why do so many more go to eg France and Germany d’ye think?
    They don't. No other country takes scroungers. They all come here because they get a free BMW and golf lessons.
    Now if they got a free Maxi ...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    nico679 said:

    Braverman now trying to suggest civil unrest if the boats aren’t stopped . Or hoping for it ! She’s now employing straw man arguments to address perfectly valid concerns .

    What a horrible woman .

    Enoch Powell would be proud. And confused.
    It’s funny you said Powell, my dad said in FaceTime chat Edward Heath would throw Suella Braverman completely out the Tory Party, so this is example of how the party ge joined has changed.

    My mum likes her. Just about the only cabinet minister she does like and trust.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,434
    kinabalu said:

    The Gary Lineker furore has quite a few similarities with the Marcus Rashford furore. Both cases involved a footballer heroically attacking the 'forces of conservatism', to an obligingly flat-footed response, followed by emerging victorious and (in the view of commentariat) with career prospects enhanced. Both Rishi Sunak playing the stooge as well.

    And in both cases (certainly in my opinion), welcoming their contribution to the debate but actively engaging with it rather than capitulating is what a good Conservative Government would have done.

    The BBC has certainly caved at the optimum moment for Lineker - had the stand-off lasted another week, they would have been forced to create an actual MOTD programme, and barring them getting Joey from Friends to present it, it could well have proven more popular.

    Phoebe surely? Joey would be ace.
    I was referencing his disastrous run hosting Top Gear.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,944

    nico679 said:

    Braverman now trying to suggest civil unrest if the boats aren’t stopped . Or hoping for it ! She’s now employing straw man arguments to address perfectly valid concerns .

    What a horrible woman .

    Enoch Powell would be proud. And confused.
    It’s funny you said Powell, my dad said in FaceTime chat Edward Heath would throw Suella Braverman completely out the Tory Party, so this is example of how the party ge joined has changed.

    My mum likes her. Just about the only cabinet minister she does like and trust.
    Though arguably Powell won it for Heath in 1970 and lost it for Heath in 1974 when he defected to the Ulster Unionists in the key Midlands swing seats.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    *wearily*
    In many cases because English is their second language and they already have friends and family here.

    Why do so many more go to eg France and Germany d’ye think?
    And another thing.

    What would happen if every country took that attitude?

    If there were a rule that you had to claim asylum in the first safe country, that would increase the burden on the immediate neighours of trouble spots. And they struggle enough as it is.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    I'm not sure that the government's strategy of creating 'enemies within' is going to be successful - it's all just too divisive, and doesn't appeal enough outside the right-wing vote.

    And it's not just Braverman - Sunak is guilty too. Listen to him at PMQs. Last week he was accusing Starmer of being a 'lefty lawyer' who wants 'open borders', and has played the 'North London metropolitan elite' card frequently.
    I hope he gets his swimming pool sorted, though, as a man of the people.

    He might struggle with the 'metropolitan elite' angle.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    If I was an editor with a sense of mischief I might ask Boris Johnson to review Theresa May's book, The Abuse of Power.

    https://twitter.com/Waterstones/status/1635309747640635394

    Other book vendors will probably stock it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,836
    Watching the Wild Isles. Incredible photography as always on these things but should we not have simplified Attenborough's task by conquering Eire before it was made? Once again the failure to see the bigger picture encouraged the government down the road of the NI protocol instead. Sigh.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Fearless PB Prediction: Winner of SNP 2023 Leadership Election = Humza Jousaf

    Why? Because of the three contenders, and given his predecessors, he has as far as I can tell, the "fishiest" name.

    As in;

    https://indiabazaaramsterdam.nl/humza-masala-fish-600g.html
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Gary... Glitter is back in prison apparently for trying to access the dark Web...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    May I raise my feeble voice, in favor of remitting the ban(s) on the banned? At least the usual (non-bot) suspects?

    If so, I do!

    I second that. I’m sure it’s not the case for, say, Leon (although maybe it is…) this forum is literally the only social interaction I have. I have no friends and I’d feel desperately sorry for anyone else in my position who got banned.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    *wearily*
    In many cases because English is their second language and they already have friends and family here.

    Why do so many more go to eg France and Germany d’ye think?
    And another thing.

    What would happen if every country took that attitude?

    If there were a rule that you had to claim asylum in the first safe country, that would increase the burden on the immediate neighours of trouble spots. And they struggle enough as it is.
    But that would aid the peace of mind of certain types which is of course the important thing. The more countries between this sceptred isle and the 100 million, nay billions, heading our way the better.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    Fearless PB Prediction: Winner of SNP 2023 Leadership Election = Humza Jousaf

    Why? Because of the three contenders, and given his predecessors, he has as far as I can tell, the "fishiest" name.

    As in;

    https://indiabazaaramsterdam.nl/humza-masala-fish-600g.html

    Wrong word, I'm afraid. Like claiming that Sainsburys means tuna because the name is on a tuna tin.

    https://veenas.com/collections/humza
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Good God this bill is horrific .

    Removing protections for trafficked children , effectively if they escape the slavery they end up in detention and could still be deported.

    Torture victims locked up . This Bill is an affront to humanity .
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    *wearily*
    In many cases because English is their second language and they already have friends and family here.

    Why do so many more go to eg France and Germany d’ye think?
    And another thing.

    What would happen if every country took that attitude?

    If there were a rule that you had to claim asylum in the first safe country, that would increase the burden on the immediate neighours of trouble spots. And they struggle enough as it is.
    So we increase financial support to these camps, which makes massively more sense given that we can protect about four times as many people for the same cost. And it also means it is far easier for the wartorn nation to rebuild post-crisis, as the people in these camps are likely to move back home and assist in rebuilding.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,944
    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited March 2023

    nico679 said:

    Braverman now trying to suggest civil unrest if the boats aren’t stopped . Or hoping for it ! She’s now employing straw man arguments to address perfectly valid concerns .

    What a horrible woman .

    Enoch Powell would be proud. And confused.
    It’s funny you said Powell, my dad said in FaceTime chat Edward Heath would throw Suella Braverman completely out the Tory Party, so this is example of how the party ge joined has changed.

    My mum likes her. Just about the only cabinet minister she does like and trust.
    Braverman is tough. (Or is perceived that way, which in politics is same thing.) Also straight talker. (Ditto.)

    And a thing that plenty of voters want in a politico. One way or the other.

    So can see where your Mum's comin' from, so to speak. Without being compelled to agree!

    ADDENDUM - Also thing that having a politico of color, and a woman one to boot, is smart politics, especially for Tories. Again, without endorsing SB in the role.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,641

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    *wearily*
    In many cases because English is their second language and they already have friends and family here.
    The more people come, the more people will have friends and family here, so it will create an ever-growing pull factor.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    *wearily*
    In many cases because English is their second language and they already have friends and family here.

    Why do so many more go to eg France and Germany d’ye think?
    You realize that putting the word "wearily" at the front of your comment doesn't make a bad argument any better? Just because you have previously been in a dangerous spot doesn't mean you are entitled to have your pick of countries based on language or where your mates are.



  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Imagine calling a Bill compassionate and moral when it includes the removal of protections for victims of torture and slavery .

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    nico679 said:

    Good God this bill is horrific .

    Removing protections for trafficked children , effectively if they escape the slavery they end up in detention and could still be deported.

    Torture victims locked up . This Bill is an affront to humanity .

    I believe it's even making Priti uneasy.

    It's that bad.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    WillG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    *wearily*
    In many cases because English is their second language and they already have friends and family here.

    Why do so many more go to eg France and Germany d’ye think?
    You realize that putting the word "wearily" at the front of your comment doesn't make a bad argument any better? Just because you have previously been in a dangerous spot doesn't mean you are entitled to have your pick of countries based on language or where your mates are.



    The question was why are people are trying to migrate here from a safe country not whether they are entitled to, you tedious dimwit.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154
    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    Although the French could turn that around, and ask why people are trying to migrate there from a safe country, Italy.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    WillG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    *wearily*
    In many cases because English is their second language and they already have friends and family here.

    Why do so many more go to eg France and Germany d’ye think?
    And another thing.

    What would happen if every country took that attitude?

    If there were a rule that you had to claim asylum in the first safe country, that would increase the burden on the immediate neighours of trouble spots. And they struggle enough as it is.
    So we increase financial support to these camps, which makes massively more sense given that we can protect about four times as many people for the same cost. And it also means it is far easier for the wartorn nation to rebuild post-crisis, as the people in these camps are likely to move back home and assist in rebuilding.
    OK. (Checks what the government has done with overseas aid spending.) Not OK.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    nico679 said:

    Imagine calling a Bill compassionate and moral when it includes the removal of protections for victims of torture and slavery .

    I'm glad we don't go the route of overly contrived names for bills, as I dread what contortions would be taken to make the name spell out COMPASSIONATE ACT.

    But it's probably a good rule of thumb to assume that if you see such a name if would mean the opposite.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    nico679 said:

    Imagine calling a Bill compassionate and moral when it includes the removal of protections for victims of torture and slavery .

    Keep wondering, which No. 10 spin-meister insisted on putting THAT clause in the bill, and making it a major talking point for the Prime Minister?

    For its natural appeal to the hanging, flogging and other traditional British blood sports lobby?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    Although the French could turn that around, and ask why people are trying to migrate there from a safe country, Italy.
    And regardless of the answer, that doesn't change how we should judge whether the UK actions in response are ok.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    WillG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    *wearily*
    In many cases because English is their second language and they already have friends and family here.

    Why do so many more go to eg France and Germany d’ye think?
    You realize that putting the word "wearily" at the front of your comment doesn't make a bad argument any better? Just because you have previously been in a dangerous spot doesn't mean you are entitled to have your pick of countries based on language or where your mates are.



    No, but the UK and other signatories of the Refugee Convention did create that entitlement.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Carnyx said:

    Fearless PB Prediction: Winner of SNP 2023 Leadership Election = Humza Jousaf

    Why? Because of the three contenders, and given his predecessors, he has as far as I can tell, the "fishiest" name.

    As in;

    https://indiabazaaramsterdam.nl/humza-masala-fish-600g.html

    Wrong word, I'm afraid. Like claiming that Sainsburys means tuna because the name is on a tuna tin.

    https://veenas.com/collections/humza
    OK, wise guy, all I know is what I google. SO do YOU have a fishier candidate?
  • So far Kate Forbes is head and shoulders above the other two
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    So far Kate Forbes is head and shoulders above the other two

    I think she would be the best leader. Therefore the other parties ought to want her to lose.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,393
    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Her of the “go home” vans.

    What a Damascene conversion.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    edited March 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    "Theresa is just another LEFTY LAWYER standing in our way!"
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Evening all :)

    It seems the irresistible farce has met the immovable objet d'art - or perhaps not.

    Back to polls and we've had both a Deltpoll and a Redfield & Wilton this evening.

    The headline VI numbers aren't dissimilar but that hides movement from both pollsters. The Conservatives are up three with R&W but down three from Deltapoll while Labour is down two with R&W and up three with Deltapoll.

    Looking at the data and starting with Deltapoll which has Labour up 28 points with men but just 16 with women which is a shade counter-intuitive. Among those aged 65 and over, the Conservatives lead 40-34 so the latter is a 20.5% swing to Labour from 2019.

    The 2016 Remain vote has a 6% swing to Labour while the Leave vote shows a 25% swing from Conservative to Labour. The 2019 Conservative vote (excluding Don't Knows) splits 62% Conservative, 27% Labour and 7% Reform.

    On then to Redfield & Wilton nd whereas last week a poor VI obscured some better supplementary numbers for the Government, tonight's poll is the complete opposite. An improved VI disguises some worsening numbers on Government approval and Rishi Sunak's rating.

    Including Don't Knows, the 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 17% Labour, 13% Don't Know and 8% Reform. With the DKs, Labour leads 42-23 with DKs on 13% and LDs on 9%. The Conservative DKs account for 38% of all DKs. Among men Labour leads by 15 and among women the lead is 23.

    Taking out the Don't Knows and the Conservatives led 38-31 among the 65+ age group so a 7 point lead instead of the 47 point lead the party enjoyed in 2019 and a 20% swing to Labour.

    The England sub sample returns Labour 50%, Conservative 27%, LD 11% which is an 18% swing from Labour to Conservative and a 9.5% swing from Conservative to Liberal Democrat.

    Wellingborough, the 250th most marginal Conservative seat, would be lost on that swing suggesting a post-election Conservative Parliamentary Party of 100-120 seats.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    Although the French could turn that around, and ask why people are trying to migrate there from a safe country, Italy.
    Well tbh italy.....
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    edited March 2023
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Her of the “go home” vans.

    What a Damascene conversion.
    I think May will probably vote for it and expect amendments to be added later like some other Tories who have already spoken .
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Her of the “go home” vans.

    What a Damascene conversion.
    Actually she was the first major figure to wake up to the 'modern slavery' issue, and as Home Sec really prioritised dealing with it, including of course the Modern Slavery Act 2015.
  • Ash Regan

    When we become independent we will transition in a couple of months

    Is she for real

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    nico679 said:

    Braverman now trying to suggest civil unrest if the boats aren’t stopped . Or hoping for it ! She’s now employing straw man arguments to address perfectly valid concerns .

    What a horrible woman .

    Enoch Powell would be proud. And confused.
    It’s funny you said Powell, my dad said in FaceTime chat Edward Heath would throw Suella Braverman completely out the Tory Party, so this is example of how the party ge joined has changed.

    My mum likes her. Just about the only cabinet minister she does like and trust.
    Braverman is tough. (Or is perceived that way, which in politics is same thing.) Also straight talker. (Ditto.)

    And a thing that plenty of voters want in a politico. One way or the other.

    So can see where your Mum's comin' from, so to speak. Without being compelled to agree!

    ADDENDUM - Also thing that having a politico of color, and a woman one to boot, is smart politics, especially for Tories. Again, without endorsing SB in the role.
    My mum reckons the country is too full, and as Tory’s have stopped all immigration completely with Brexit apart from the cheating boat people, no policy on this loophole can be too tough, our way of life and economy and NHS and everything absolutely threatened by this absolute invasion horde of these cheaters, and aghast there’s anyone at all actually on their side at all like Lineker, and me supporting him. And she wasn’t actually born in this country. She never lived here till marrying my dad and shortly after giving birth to my brother and me. 🤦‍♀️
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Her of the “go home” vans.

    What a Damascene conversion.
    Actually she was the first major figure to wake up to the 'modern slavery' issue, and as Home Sec really prioritised dealing with it, including of course the Modern Slavery Act 2015.
    Yes we have more slaves since she did
  • nico679 said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Her of the “go home” vans.

    What a Damascene conversion.
    I think May will probably vote for it and expect amendments to be added later like some other Tories who have already spoken .
    It needs amendments either later or in the HOL
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Her of the “go home” vans.

    What a Damascene conversion.
    There are hostile environments and really hostile environments.

    Plus things look different when you are PM/Minister and desperate for anything to try to convince the Tory base that you want to deal with immigration, even if you have been unable to until now.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    nico679 said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Her of the “go home” vans.

    What a Damascene conversion.
    I think May will probably vote for it and expect amendments to be added later like some other Tories who have already spoken .
    It needs amendments either later or in the HOL
    Maybe the government would have an easier go of things if it drafted bills properly rather than push out half formed legislation that they expect to be fixed (as opposed to tweaked) in Committee and the Lords.

    But then arguments about amendments will be part of the point.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    HYUFD said:

    Today's Yougov/Sky SNP leadership poll finds all the SNP leadership candidates with a net unfavourable rating.

    Yousaf had 22% saying he would be a good FM, 44% bad. Forbes had 27% saying she would be a good FM and 36% bad. Regan had 14% saying she would be a good FM and 39% bad.

    Just 8% thought Yousaf would be better than Sturgeon, 6% thought Regan would be better and 17% Forbes an improvement on the current FM
    https://news.sky.com/story/snp-leadership-scottish-independence-support-at-just-39-poll-says-12832783

    However, looking at 2019 SNP voters, the proportion who thought each leadership candidate would be a good or bad FM is radicallly different to that of the general public.

    SNP 2019:
    Yousaf Good 41%, Bad 31%. Net +10%
    Forbes Good 34%, Bad 38% Net -4%
    Regan Good 23%, Bad 33%, Net -10%

    SNP 2019 voter preferences are likely to be a lot closer to the preferences of SNP members than those of the Scottish public in general.




  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    HYUFD said:

    Today's Yougov/Sky SNP leadership poll finds all the SNP leadership candidates with a net unfavourable rating.

    Yousaf had 22% saying he would be a good FM, 44% bad. Forbes had 27% saying she would be a good FM and 36% bad. Regan had 14% saying she would be a good FM and 39% bad.

    Just 8% thought Yousaf would be better than Sturgeon, 6% thought Regan would be better and 17% Forbes an improvement on the current FM
    https://news.sky.com/story/snp-leadership-scottish-independence-support-at-just-39-poll-says-12832783

    However, looking at 2019 SNP voters, the proportion who thought each leadership candidate would be a good or bad FM is radicallly different to that of the general public.

    SNP 2019:
    Yousaf Good 41%, Bad 31%. Net +10%
    Forbes Good 34%, Bad 38% Net -4%
    Regan Good 23%, Bad 33%, Net -10%

    SNP 2019 voter preferences are likely to be a lot closer to the preferences of SNP members than those of the Scottish public in general.

    It does seem that any positive rating in this context is likely to be crucial.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567
    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Bit rich, given her "Go home" vans....
  • Regan and Forbes openly arguing
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    In other more substantial news, I've just read the updated IR 2023.

    It's mostly a lot of waffle but the one sector that does get security of funding is nuclear (civil as well as military), Dreadnought and the AWE. Superconductor onshoring is also another little morsel.

    There is also a hint at a bit of extra cash for the army at some point in the future. The signposting is that what the uplift from 2.2% of 2.5% GDP will largely go towards, but it's left totally open-ended as to what that will buy. And that, basically, they'll wait to see what lessons come out of Ukraine.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/integrated-review-refresh-2023-responding-to-a-more-contested-and-volatile-world/integrated-review-refresh-2023-responding-to-a-more-contested-and-volatile-world
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,293

    HYUFD said:

    Today's Yougov/Sky SNP leadership poll finds all the SNP leadership candidates with a net unfavourable rating.

    Yousaf had 22% saying he would be a good FM, 44% bad. Forbes had 27% saying she would be a good FM and 36% bad. Regan had 14% saying she would be a good FM and 39% bad.

    Just 8% thought Yousaf would be better than Sturgeon, 6% thought Regan would be better and 17% Forbes an improvement on the current FM
    https://news.sky.com/story/snp-leadership-scottish-independence-support-at-just-39-poll-says-12832783

    However, looking at 2019 SNP voters, the proportion who thought each leadership candidate would be a good or bad FM is radicallly different to that of the general public.

    SNP 2019:
    Yousaf Good 41%, Bad 31%. Net +10%
    Forbes Good 34%, Bad 38% Net -4%
    Regan Good 23%, Bad 33%, Net -10%

    SNP 2019 voter preferences are likely to be a lot closer to the preferences of SNP members than those of the Scottish public in general.




    Yousaf looks pretty certain to win the most amount of first preferences. It's going to come down to whether Forbes can win enough of Regan's first preferences.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Her of the “go home” vans.

    What a Damascene conversion.
    And the architect of the "hostile" Home Office approach to immigration generally. cf. Windrush.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,434
    ...

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    "Theresa is just another LEFTY LAWYER standing in our way!"
    She's seriously POd that her Modern Slavery bill is being (in part) superceded. Silly bag should have made a bill that was a bit more watertight than a seive.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,060
    edited March 2023
    Regan now v Youzaf

    This is embarrassing
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    HYUFD said:

    Today's Yougov/Sky SNP leadership poll finds all the SNP leadership candidates with a net unfavourable rating.

    Yousaf had 22% saying he would be a good FM, 44% bad. Forbes had 27% saying she would be a good FM and 36% bad. Regan had 14% saying she would be a good FM and 39% bad.

    Just 8% thought Yousaf would be better than Sturgeon, 6% thought Regan would be better and 17% Forbes an improvement on the current FM
    https://news.sky.com/story/snp-leadership-scottish-independence-support-at-just-39-poll-says-12832783

    However, looking at 2019 SNP voters, the proportion who thought each leadership candidate would be a good or bad FM is radicallly different to that of the general public.

    SNP 2019:
    Yousaf Good 41%, Bad 31%. Net +10%
    Forbes Good 34%, Bad 38% Net -4%
    Regan Good 23%, Bad 33%, Net -10%

    SNP 2019 voter preferences are likely to be a lot closer to the preferences of SNP members than those of the Scottish public in general.




    Yousaf looks pretty certain to win the most amount of first preferences. It's going to come down to whether Forbes can win enough of Regan's first preferences.
    The this account seems pretty relevant.

    Regan and Forbes openly arguing

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663
    Does anyone really know what the make-up of the SNP membership is? There are these stories about 50,000 members leaving - is that Alba types? Green types? Who are we left with?

    The way the candidates are pitching suggests that they think that fundamentalists dominate the membership. My early bet on Ben Macpherson looks more stupid by the hour.
  • ...

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    "Theresa is just another LEFTY LAWYER standing in our way!"
    She's seriously POd that her Modern Slavery bill is being (in part) superceded. Silly bag should have made a bill that was a bit more watertight than a seive.
    Silly bag - really
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,944
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    It seems the irresistible farce has met the immovable objet d'art - or perhaps not.

    Back to polls and we've had both a Deltpoll and a Redfield & Wilton this evening.

    The headline VI numbers aren't dissimilar but that hides movement from both pollsters. The Conservatives are up three with R&W but down three from Deltapoll while Labour is down two with R&W and up three with Deltapoll.

    Looking at the data and starting with Deltapoll which has Labour up 28 points with men but just 16 with women which is a shade counter-intuitive. Among those aged 65 and over, the Conservatives lead 40-34 so the latter is a 20.5% swing to Labour from 2019.

    The 2016 Remain vote has a 6% swing to Labour while the Leave vote shows a 25% swing from Conservative to Labour. The 2019 Conservative vote (excluding Don't Knows) splits 62% Conservative, 27% Labour and 7% Reform.

    On then to Redfield & Wilton nd whereas last week a poor VI obscured some better supplementary numbers for the Government, tonight's poll is the complete opposite. An improved VI disguises some worsening numbers on Government approval and Rishi Sunak's rating.

    Including Don't Knows, the 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 17% Labour, 13% Don't Know and 8% Reform. With the DKs, Labour leads 42-23 with DKs on 13% and LDs on 9%. The Conservative DKs account for 38% of all DKs. Among men Labour leads by 15 and among women the lead is 23.

    Taking out the Don't Knows and the Conservatives led 38-31 among the 65+ age group so a 7 point lead instead of the 47 point lead the party enjoyed in 2019 and a 20% swing to Labour.

    The England sub sample returns Labour 50%, Conservative 27%, LD 11% which is an 18% swing from Labour to Conservative and a 9.5% swing from Conservative to Liberal Democrat.

    Wellingborough, the 250th most marginal Conservative seat, would be lost on that swing suggesting a post-election Conservative Parliamentary Party of 100-120 seats.

    Wellingborough went Labour in 1997 too. However although I have some reservations about this Bill I expect it to boost Conservative votershare with Leavers and reclaim voters from RefUK in particular
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    "Theresa is just another LEFTY LAWYER standing in our way!"
    She's seriously POd that her Modern Slavery bill is being (in part) superceded. Silly bag should have made a bill that was a bit more watertight than a seive.
    “Silly bag”. FFS
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,657

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Her of the “go home” vans.

    What a Damascene conversion.
    And the architect of the "hostile" Home Office approach to immigration generally. cf. Windrush.
    I think the hostile environment from the Home Office goes back further.

    I have colleagues with horror stories about them for decades.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    Although the French could turn that around, and ask why people are trying to migrate there from a safe country, Italy.
    They're not; they're trying to come to the UK.

    France is the service station.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,147

    kinabalu said:

    The Gary Lineker furore has quite a few similarities with the Marcus Rashford furore. Both cases involved a footballer heroically attacking the 'forces of conservatism', to an obligingly flat-footed response, followed by emerging victorious and (in the view of commentariat) with career prospects enhanced. Both Rishi Sunak playing the stooge as well.

    And in both cases (certainly in my opinion), welcoming their contribution to the debate but actively engaging with it rather than capitulating is what a good Conservative Government would have done.

    The BBC has certainly caved at the optimum moment for Lineker - had the stand-off lasted another week, they would have been forced to create an actual MOTD programme, and barring them getting Joey from Friends to present it, it could well have proven more popular.

    Phoebe surely? Joey would be ace.
    I was referencing his disastrous run hosting Top Gear.
    Ah ok. Top Gear is a yawning gap in my popular culture cv.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    Although the French could turn that around, and ask why people are trying to migrate there from a safe country, Italy.
    They're not; they're trying to come to the UK.

    France is the service station.
    France takes more than the UK. But why let facts matter.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Coming to your local Scottish corner shop soon…..

    And if you can’t afford to buy or don’t have the space to install a reverse vending machine this is what @scotgov minister @lornaslater has suggested as a solution. If you agree with the DRS as it is, how would you like to work next to someone else’s rubbish?



    https://twitter.com/StAndrewsWine/status/1635300503797256195?s=20
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    Although the French could turn that around, and ask why people are trying to migrate there from a safe country, Italy.
    They're not; they're trying to come to the UK.

    France is the service station.
    France lets far more in than the U.K. We’re not that special.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,147

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Bit rich, given her "Go home" vans....
    Yes. But also shows how bad this is.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,434
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Gary Lineker furore has quite a few similarities with the Marcus Rashford furore. Both cases involved a footballer heroically attacking the 'forces of conservatism', to an obligingly flat-footed response, followed by emerging victorious and (in the view of commentariat) with career prospects enhanced. Both Rishi Sunak playing the stooge as well.

    And in both cases (certainly in my opinion), welcoming their contribution to the debate but actively engaging with it rather than capitulating is what a good Conservative Government would have done.

    The BBC has certainly caved at the optimum moment for Lineker - had the stand-off lasted another week, they would have been forced to create an actual MOTD programme, and barring them getting Joey from Friends to present it, it could well have proven more popular.

    Phoebe surely? Joey would be ace.
    I was referencing his disastrous run hosting Top Gear.
    Ah ok. Top Gear is a yawning gap in my popular culture cv.
    I missed his oeuvre too, it was just an example of a bizarre BBC casting decision.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,381

    Ash Regan

    When we become independent we will transition in a couple of months

    Is she for real

    Really? I thought she was opposed to the GRR Bill making transitioning easier?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Gary Lineker furore has quite a few similarities with the Marcus Rashford furore. Both cases involved a footballer heroically attacking the 'forces of conservatism', to an obligingly flat-footed response, followed by emerging victorious and (in the view of commentariat) with career prospects enhanced. Both Rishi Sunak playing the stooge as well.

    And in both cases (certainly in my opinion), welcoming their contribution to the debate but actively engaging with it rather than capitulating is what a good Conservative Government would have done.

    The BBC has certainly caved at the optimum moment for Lineker - had the stand-off lasted another week, they would have been forced to create an actual MOTD programme, and barring them getting Joey from Friends to present it, it could well have proven more popular.

    Phoebe surely? Joey would be ace.
    I was referencing his disastrous run hosting Top Gear.
    Ah ok. Top Gear is a yawning gap in my popular culture cv.
    I missed his oeuvre too, it was just an example of a bizarre BBC casting decision.
    I thought he was fine, genuinely likeable afaict.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited March 2023
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Her of the “go home” vans.

    What a Damascene conversion.
    And the architect of the "hostile" Home Office approach to immigration generally. cf. Windrush.
    I think the hostile environment from the Home Office goes back further
    All the way back to Labour:

    From 2018:

    The current “hostile environment” against migrants is the latest version of a strategy conceived 20 years ago by Tony Blair and Jack Straw. They set up the raid squads, expanded the detention system – and introduced the first known deportation targets.

    In 2000, Labour set a target to deport 30,000 people over the next year. This was a crucially important number. It guided the size of the new PFI-funded and privately managed detention centres, and shaped the Immigration Enforcement system inherited by Theresa May today.


    https://corporatewatch.org/deportation-targets-and-the-deterrent-dogma-uk-immigration-enforcement-from-straw-to-may/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,147
    edited March 2023
    Pagan2 said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Her of the “go home” vans.

    What a Damascene conversion.
    Actually she was the first major figure to wake up to the 'modern slavery' issue, and as Home Sec really prioritised dealing with it, including of course the Modern Slavery Act 2015.
    Yes we have more slaves since she did
    Speak for yourself pagan. We freed ours.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Ash Regan

    When we become independent we will transition in a couple of months

    Is she for real

    As with Brexit people may feel it is worth it even if it will be hard. And there will be disagreements about just how hard it will be. But as with that, acting as though it will be easy would be just plain silly.
  • Ash Regan

    When we become independent we will transition in a couple of months

    Is she for real

    Really? I thought she was opposed to the GRR Bill making transitioning easier?
    Not that transition
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    Coming to your local Scottish corner shop soon…..

    And if you can’t afford to buy or don’t have the space to install a reverse vending machine this is what @scotgov minister @lornaslater has suggested as a solution. If you agree with the DRS as it is, how would you like to work next to someone else’s rubbish?



    https://twitter.com/StAndrewsWine/status/1635300503797256195?s=20

    There are surely machines that can do that, which you could put either outside the shop, or somewhere less in the way.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,434
    DougSeal said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    "Theresa is just another LEFTY LAWYER standing in our way!"
    She's seriously POd that her Modern Slavery bill is being (in part) superceded. Silly bag should have made a bill that was a bit more watertight than a seive.
    “Silly bag”. FFS
    Ok, someone needs to give me the approved list of former PMs who its OK to verbally eviscerate on PB and who we should treat with silk gloves and raised pinkies. Liz Truss, Boris Johnson, and... Triz Luss and Joris Bohnson?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    nico679 said:

    Braverman now trying to suggest civil unrest if the boats aren’t stopped . Or hoping for it ! She’s now employing straw man arguments to address perfectly valid concerns .

    What a horrible woman .

    Enoch Powell would be proud. And confused.
    It’s funny you said Powell, my dad said in FaceTime chat Edward Heath would throw Suella Braverman completely out the Tory Party, so this is example of how the party ge joined has changed.

    My mum likes her. Just about the only cabinet minister she does like and trust.
    Braverman is tough. (Or is perceived that way, which in politics is same thing.) Also straight talker. (Ditto.)

    And a thing that plenty of voters want in a politico. One way or the other.

    So can see where your Mum's comin' from, so to speak. Without being compelled to agree!

    ADDENDUM - Also thing that having a politico of color, and a woman one to boot, is smart politics, especially for Tories. Again, without endorsing SB in the role.
    My mum reckons the country is too full, and as Tory’s have stopped all immigration completely with Brexit apart from the cheating boat people, no policy on this loophole can be too tough, our way of life and economy and NHS and everything absolutely threatened by this absolute invasion horde of these cheaters, and aghast there’s anyone at all actually on their side at all like Lineker, and me supporting him. And she wasn’t actually born in this country. She never lived here till marrying my dad and shortly after giving birth to my brother and me. 🤦‍♀️
    Personally am way more in tune with you & your Dad on this; thanks for sharing his view re: Heath & Powell.

    Is perhaps one element in your Mum's view, that she is (I presume) a legal immigrant who had to go through more than one hoop to become a UK resident and (again presuming) citizen?

    That's pretty common over here, esp. among children & grandchildren of (presumably) legal immigrants.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    Although the French could turn that around, and ask why people are trying to migrate there from a safe country, Italy.
    They're not; they're trying to come to the UK.

    France is the service station.
    France takes more than the UK. But why let facts matter.
    Doesn't mean they're not trying to come to the UK.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    Although the French could turn that around, and ask why people are trying to migrate there from a safe country, Italy.
    They're not; they're trying to come to the UK.

    France is the service station.
    France lets far more in than the U.K. We’re not that special.
    France is 4 times bigger
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,836
    edited March 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Today's Yougov/Sky SNP leadership poll finds all the SNP leadership candidates with a net unfavourable rating.

    Yousaf had 22% saying he would be a good FM, 44% bad. Forbes had 27% saying she would be a good FM and 36% bad. Regan had 14% saying she would be a good FM and 39% bad.

    Just 8% thought Yousaf would be better than Sturgeon, 6% thought Regan would be better and 17% Forbes an improvement on the current FM
    https://news.sky.com/story/snp-leadership-scottish-independence-support-at-just-39-poll-says-12832783

    However, looking at 2019 SNP voters, the proportion who thought each leadership candidate would be a good or bad FM is radicallly different to that of the general public.

    SNP 2019:
    Yousaf Good 41%, Bad 31%. Net +10%
    Forbes Good 34%, Bad 38% Net -4%
    Regan Good 23%, Bad 33%, Net -10%

    SNP 2019 voter preferences are likely to be a lot closer to the preferences of SNP members than those of the Scottish public in general.




    Still really hard to call this but I think that there is little doubt that if the people of Scotland would choose Forbes. SNP members are more likely to choose Yousaf because of the unqualified backing of Sturgeon and her henchmen. She has shaped the SNP in her image with far more left leaning supporters, easing out many of the centrists or right wingers that might have preferred Regan or Forbes. STV means that this is not yet a done deal but I suspect that Sturgeon will get her way once again.

    And then pity Scotland.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Her of the “go home” vans.

    What a Damascene conversion.
    Actually she was the first major figure to wake up to the 'modern slavery' issue, and as Home Sec really prioritised dealing with it, including of course the Modern Slavery Act 2015.
    Yes we have more slaves since she did
    Speak for yourself pagan. We freed ours.
    Pffft if you think there aren't slaves in britain I have a bridge to sell you. No not something I support but they are here largely the boat people coming over
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    kle4 said:

    Ash Regan

    When we become independent we will transition in a couple of months

    Is she for real

    As with Brexit people may feel it is worth it even if it will be hard. And there will be disagreements about just how hard it will be. But as with that, acting as though it will be easy would be just plain silly.
    I find myself in the strange position of wanting us to get back to debating Brexit on here again just to break the back of InfiniteLineker.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    off topic

    "Words Don’t Matter
    We have power over words, not vice versa.
    Lawrence M. Krauss"

    https://quillette.com/2023/03/13/words-dont-matter/
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    So wanting to show some humanity is now classed by Braverman as being a naive do-gooder ! What a wretched human being.

    You never answer the question of why people are trying to migrate here from a safe country, France.
    Although the French could turn that around, and ask why people are trying to migrate there from a safe country, Italy.
    They're not; they're trying to come to the UK.

    France is the service station.
    France takes more than the UK. But why let facts matter.
    Doesn't mean they're not trying to come to the UK.
    Some are, some aren't. The UK takes in about 1% of the refugees who move to another country and the UK is about 1% of the worlds population. It is more crowded but also richer. The numbers are about fair.

    The whole process could be done far more efficiently, without criminal gangs, boats, illegal employers or the damage to our courts and most of all to the already out of luck refugees.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    kle4 said:

    Ash Regan

    When we become independent we will transition in a couple of months

    Is she for real

    As with Brexit people may feel it is worth it even if it will be hard. And there will be disagreements about just how hard it will be. But as with that, acting as though it will be easy would be just plain silly.
    I find myself in the strange position of wanting us to get back to debating Brexit on here again just to break the back of InfiniteLineker.
    What actually is a lineker I keep seeing people mention it
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    In the week of the Budget, I think it's worth remembering the current wage rises which are lauded by the Government and its supporters are bringing more people into the tax system because of the freeze on personal allowances.

    I've seen a figure of 700,000 families now paying tax because rising earnings have brought them above the tax threshold - at the same time, rising wages are drawing more and more into the upper tax bracket as personal allowances are frozen.

    It's little surprise the public finances seem to be doing better as so many who previously paid lower levels of tax are now, thanks to inflation, paying more tax - one might almost call it a stealth tax rise and for those of us who remember the Osborne years, a real sense of deja vu.

    It's interesting the siren calls to cut corporation tax are much louder than those to raise personal allowances above the rate of inflation.

    Interesting piece in City AM this morning on the issue of returning those aged 50 and above to work. It seems incentives mean nothing in the face of cultural mindset - 71% of those aged 45 and over think there is a bias against recruiting older workers. Should we be looking at tax breaks for companies who employ a high percentage of older workers?

    Should be taking any notice of City AM where the term "tax cut" is replaced by "the lifting of tax revenue rates" ?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited March 2023

    Coming to your local Scottish corner shop soon…..

    And if you can’t afford to buy or don’t have the space to install a reverse vending machine this is what @scotgov minister @lornaslater has suggested as a solution. If you agree with the DRS as it is, how would you like to work next to someone else’s rubbish?



    https://twitter.com/StAndrewsWine/status/1635300503797256195?s=20

    Well, at least we're NOT talking summertime in South Louisiana (what IS that in that coke bottle?)

    Nevertheless you may have a point.

    ADDENDUM - Has this been raised in the debate?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    stodge said:

    In the week of the Budget, I think it's worth remembering the current wage rises which are lauded by the Government and its supporters are bringing more people into the tax system because of the freeze on personal allowances.

    I've seen a figure of 700,000 families now paying tax because rising earnings have brought them above the tax threshold - at the same time, rising wages are drawing more and more into the upper tax bracket as personal allowances are frozen.

    It's little surprise the public finances seem to be doing better as so many who previously paid lower levels of tax are now, thanks to inflation, paying more tax - one might almost call it a stealth tax rise and for those of us who remember the Osborne years, a real sense of deja vu.

    It's interesting the siren calls to cut corporation tax are much louder than those to raise personal allowances above the rate of inflation.

    Interesting piece in City AM this morning on the issue of returning those aged 50 and above to work. It seems incentives mean nothing in the face of cultural mindset - 71% of those aged 45 and over think there is a bias against recruiting older workers. Should we be looking at tax breaks for companies who employ a high percentage of older workers?

    Should be taking any notice of City AM where the term "tax cut" is replaced by "the lifting of tax revenue rates" ?

    Really you are basically lamenting people are better off enough to have to pay tax?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    RobD said:

    Coming to your local Scottish corner shop soon…..

    And if you can’t afford to buy or don’t have the space to install a reverse vending machine this is what @scotgov minister @lornaslater has suggested as a solution. If you agree with the DRS as it is, how would you like to work next to someone else’s rubbish?



    https://twitter.com/StAndrewsWine/status/1635300503797256195?s=20

    There are surely machines that can do that, which you could put either outside the shop, or somewhere less in the way.
    There are - but this is ScotGov’s suggestion for shops that don’t have the space.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    stodge said:

    In the week of the Budget, I think it's worth remembering the current wage rises which are lauded by the Government and its supporters are bringing more people into the tax system because of the freeze on personal allowances.

    I've seen a figure of 700,000 families now paying tax because rising earnings have brought them above the tax threshold - at the same time, rising wages are drawing more and more into the upper tax bracket as personal allowances are frozen.

    It's little surprise the public finances seem to be doing better as so many who previously paid lower levels of tax are now, thanks to inflation, paying more tax - one might almost call it a stealth tax rise and for those of us who remember the Osborne years, a real sense of deja vu.

    It's interesting the siren calls to cut corporation tax are much louder than those to raise personal allowances above the rate of inflation.

    Interesting piece in City AM this morning on the issue of returning those aged 50 and above to work. It seems incentives mean nothing in the face of cultural mindset - 71% of those aged 45 and over think there is a bias against recruiting older workers. Should we be looking at tax breaks for companies who employ a high percentage of older workers?

    Should be taking any notice of City AM where the term "tax cut" is replaced by "the lifting of tax revenue rates" ?

    What this country desperately needs is to shift the tax burden further onto young workers and relieve the burdens of businesses, older workers and retired.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    kle4 said:

    Ash Regan

    When we become independent we will transition in a couple of months

    Is she for real

    As with Brexit people may feel it is worth it even if it will be hard. And there will be disagreements about just how hard it will be. But as with that, acting as though it will be easy would be just plain silly.
    I find myself in the strange position of wanting us to get back to debating Brexit on here again just to break the back of InfiniteLineker.
    What about a rollicking debate over merits/demerits of AV?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    "Theresa is just another LEFTY LAWYER standing in our way!"
    She's seriously POd that her Modern Slavery bill is being (in part) superceded. Silly bag should have made a bill that was a bit more watertight than a seive.
    “Silly bag”. FFS
    Ok, someone needs to give me the approved list of former PMs who its OK to verbally eviscerate on PB and who we should treat with silk gloves and raised pinkies. Liz Truss, Boris Johnson, and... Triz Luss and Joris Bohnson?
    It’s the ageist sexist thing. If you had called May “a fucking awful PM”, an attribute shared by the two you reference TBF, then I would not have commented.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    kle4 said:

    Ash Regan

    When we become independent we will transition in a couple of months

    Is she for real

    As with Brexit people may feel it is worth it even if it will be hard. And there will be disagreements about just how hard it will be. But as with that, acting as though it will be easy would be just plain silly.
    I find myself in the strange position of wanting us to get back to debating Brexit on here again just to break the back of InfiniteLineker.
    What about a rollicking debate over merits/demerits of AV?
    For that there would have to be merits to av surely?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Ash Regan

    When we become independent we will transition in a couple of months

    Is she for real

    As with Brexit people may feel it is worth it even if it will be hard. And there will be disagreements about just how hard it will be. But as with that, acting as though it will be easy would be just plain silly.
    I find myself in the strange position of wanting us to get back to debating Brexit on here again just to break the back of InfiniteLineker.
    What actually is a lineker I keep seeing people mention it
    Oh boy.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    kle4 said:

    Ash Regan

    When we become independent we will transition in a couple of months

    Is she for real

    As with Brexit people may feel it is worth it even if it will be hard. And there will be disagreements about just how hard it will be. But as with that, acting as though it will be easy would be just plain silly.
    I find myself in the strange position of wanting us to get back to debating Brexit on here again just to break the back of InfiniteLineker.
    What happened to free speech, cancel culture and impartiality? Surely a time for a free speech champion to step up.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    "Theresa is just another LEFTY LAWYER standing in our way!"
    She's seriously POd that her Modern Slavery bill is being (in part) superceded. Silly bag should have made a bill that was a bit more watertight than a seive.
    “Silly bag”. FFS
    Ok, someone needs to give me the approved list of former PMs who its OK to verbally eviscerate on PB and who we should treat with silk gloves and raised pinkies. Liz Truss, Boris Johnson, and... Triz Luss and Joris Bohnson?
    It’s the ageist sexist thing. If you had called May “a fucking awful PM”, an attribute shared by the two you reference TBF, then I would not have commented.
    In defence of LuckyGuy while it was not a kind expression I think we can be a bit oversensitive to these things. I don't think any of us can doubt he would use harsh descriptors for a male former PM as well.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Ash Regan

    When we become independent we will transition in a couple of months

    Is she for real

    As with Brexit people may feel it is worth it even if it will be hard. And there will be disagreements about just how hard it will be. But as with that, acting as though it will be easy would be just plain silly.
    I find myself in the strange position of wanting us to get back to debating Brexit on here again just to break the back of InfiniteLineker.
    What actually is a lineker I keep seeing people mention it
    Oh boy.
    Well I gather I would know if I watched football or broadcast tv with crisp adverts as I do neither and havent for a couple of decades the lineker is a phenomenom that seems to exercise the minority but leaves a lot of us bemused as to what the hell you are referring to
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa May now speaking with grave concerns about the Bill, suggests the former PM may vote against the Government tonight and with the Opposition

    Her of the “go home” vans.

    What a Damascene conversion.
    And the architect of the "hostile" Home Office approach to immigration generally. cf. Windrush.
    I think the hostile environment from the Home Office goes back further
    All the way back to Labour:

    From 2018:

    The current “hostile environment” against migrants is the latest version of a strategy conceived 20 years ago by Tony Blair and Jack Straw. They set up the raid squads, expanded the detention system – and introduced the first known deportation targets.

    In 2000, Labour set a target to deport 30,000 people over the next year. This was a crucially important number. It guided the size of the new PFI-funded and privately managed detention centres, and shaped the Immigration Enforcement system inherited by Theresa May today.


    https://corporatewatch.org/deportation-targets-and-the-deterrent-dogma-uk-immigration-enforcement-from-straw-to-may/
    It's ok and un-Nazi if Labour do it.
This discussion has been closed.