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We should wait before reaching polling conclusions – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,005
edited March 2023 in General
We should wait before reaching polling conclusions – politicalbetting.com

It's not much of a bounce but it is one nevertheless. Sunak will hope that this is the start of something and that he can build on it over the coming months with further positive news. Labour's big poll leads are relatively new, remember. https://t.co/nGyh53rGWu

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    edited March 2023
    First like Arsenal.
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    edited March 2023
    Second like the Independent in yesterday's Oxford by-elections...
  • Options
    And the story will have moved onto rule breaking Rishi and Boris moaning about Sue Gray.


    A reminder to the country that Boris and Rishi partied whilst they locked us up.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,880
    Looks like the Ukrainians are abandoning Bakhmut.
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,435
    I suspect there will be a modest Tory recovery. Particularly if inflation starts to slow also and next winter isn’t as hard as the one just leaving us (no guarantee of that however).

    It is only going to mean a sound drubbing as opposed to an extinction level event, however.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,346
    The Lib Dem figure remains mad
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,452
    Anyone have the full results from last night's council byelections? Britain Elects doesn't seem to have updated yet.
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    TimS said:

    Anyone have the full results from last night's council byelections? Britain Elects doesn't seem to have updated yet.

    Andrew Teale has (re)tweeted some: https://twitter.com/andrewteale
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,745
    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    The NI story demonstrates that Sunak is less incompetent than his immediate predecessors, whilst that is a welcome relief it doesn’t in itself solve any of the core political issues that impact GB voters. Not sure why the polls would change.
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870

    The Lib Dem figure remains mad

    Ed Is Crap

    (Davey, that is)
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,452

    TimS said:

    Anyone have the full results from last night's council byelections? Britain Elects doesn't seem to have updated yet.

    Andrew Teale has (re)tweeted some: https://twitter.com/andrewteale
    Ah yes, thanks
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    Ooh, exciting to see my BTL observation make it into a header :)
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,745
    No sane person can be expected to tolerate that

    Britain has the Khmer Rouge of climates
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    Leon said:

    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


    That is called "spring".
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,452
    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


    That is called "spring".
    Potentially up to 20cm of lying snow in the South Midlands next week (though that's at the extreme end of the various models).
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,745
    Alternatively, I could stay here another week


  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    Looks like the Ukrainians are abandoning Bakhmut.

    They should have been out a week or two ago
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,174
    Long way to go.

    LAB may well get an overall majority but those on here who think/want LAB to be 10/12/15+ points clear at the GE will be disappointed.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,745
    TimS said:

    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


    That is called "spring".
    Potentially up to 20cm of lying snow in the South Midlands next week (though that's at the extreme end of the various models).
    It’s gonna be one of those “late springs” isn’t it? Like the horror that was spring of 2021. When winter just went on and on and on into early May

    And all of it during lockdown. Not sure I have ever quite recovered from that. Mentally
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,452
    malcolmg said:

    Looks like the Ukrainians are abandoning Bakhmut.

    They should have been out a week or two ago
    The 4D chess move would be to announce you're abandoning Bakhmut, do so slowly but while putting up a fighting retreat, suck all the Wagnerites into the town centre and while they're celebrating mount a big attack on both flanks surrounding them and cutting them off.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,452
    edited March 2023
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


    That is called "spring".
    Potentially up to 20cm of lying snow in the South Midlands next week (though that's at the extreme end of the various models).
    It’s gonna be one of those “late springs” isn’t it? Like the horror that was spring of 2021. When winter just went on and on and on into early May

    And all of it during lockdown. Not sure I have ever quite recovered from that. Mentally
    Late springs are of course good for vineyards because the vines delay budburst until at least mid April, then are less likely to be hit by late frost.

    2018 was the ideal season and possible this time too. Cold from late February until early April then warm and sunny from mid April until early August.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,848
    Leon said:

    It’s gonna be one of those “late springs” isn’t it?

    Phil did see a shadow...
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    Leon said:

    No sane person can be expected to tolerate that

    Britain has the Khmer Rouge of climates

    Stop whining.

    We've all coped here fine. And the clocks go forward in 3 weeks too.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    It’s gonna be one of those “late springs” isn’t it?

    Phil did see a shadow...
    The rodent? Didn't know he could use a ouija board. He was found dead ...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,336
    Leon said:

    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


    We thought we'd save some for you.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,909
    FPT (apols - took me so long to type my post the new thread had appeared!)

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris tells Sunak and Hunt to slash corporation tax to Irish levels and reverse the 6% corporation tax rise they plan.

    He also comes out in opposition to British Museum Chairman George Osborne's plans to return the Elgin Marbles to Greece

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/02/boris-johnson-calls-corporation-tax-cut-irish-levels-fresh-challenge/

    Stating that the Elgin Marbles belong in London is a bit like saying the Crown Jewels belong in Athens!

    The British Museum = Biggest Stolen Goods Warehouse in the World!
    I think that's Boris's point. If the BM (or any museum for that matter) obliges itself to 'give everything back', it's not a museum, it's a room.
    Indeed, loan exhibits abroad but if every major museum only displayed objects from the country it was located in there wouldn't be a lot of exhibits left in them
    The Parthenon still exists, so the Marbles belong there.
    All the places that all the exhibits in all the museums in the world came from still exist.
    Not in the respect Sunil is talking about. The Elgin Marbles are literally fixtures ripped off the walls of an ancient building that is still there.

    In most cases, the item is either by its nature moveable, or the context in which it was displayed either gone or massively changed.

    It's objectively ludicrous - even if one attaches no blame to Elgin personally and thinks it all legal etc - that the Marbles are in Bloomsbury rather than an ancient building which they were literally part of and which (I'll repeat) is still effing there.
    There's another side to this that I find interesting, and that's the soft power of artefacts.

    A few years back, my son was fascinated by terracotta warriors and Easter Island heads. He was a bit too young to take him up to the Liverpool terracotta warrior exhibition in 2018, but last year we went to a tiny (but brilliant) 'fake' Terracotta Warrior exhibition in Dorchester, of all places, which he loved. (There's a fake Tutankhamun exhibition just up the road as well).

    This isn't relevant to the marbles, but I wonder if having exhibits around the world actually helps the original country? Does have an Easter Island head in the BM create more knowledge and interest about/in Easter Island? Do all the exhibits of Ancient Egypt in local museums, of dusty mummies and strange inscriptions, actually create generations of people who are interested in Egypt and its history, and therefore more likely to travel there?

    Would the world be richer if every ancient artefact was in its original place, or poorer? (Leaving aside issues if where an 'original' place is)?

    This is not an argument for musuems keeping foreign artefacts: the same sort of effect may be achieved by travelling exhibitions. But I reckon there's a massive soft power in it - especially for small places like Easter Island.

    A fun fact about the terracotta warriors is that most are still buried. When the first ones were unearthed they were all painted but exposure to light quickly made the colours fade away. They are now waiting for the appropriate preservation technology to be developed before digging out any more.

    IIRC most ancient statues in Rome, Greece etc were painted. The white marble we associate with the classics era is totally false.

    Or have I got that wrong?
    I've seen a few documentaries on that - and looks to be true (not sure if it was every statue mind). I've often wondered if all the trade that went on with India influenced in either direction or if it was just common across the ancient world. But when you look at Indian temples you have to wonder what Rome or Athens may have actually looked like!


  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    So after his new Deal with the EU Sunak gains 2 from Labour but RefUK also up 1%.

    So still a clear Labour poll lead but a smaller gap and RefUK still heading for the highest voteshare for a party right of the Tories since the 12% Farage's previous vehicle, UKIP, got against Cameron in 2015
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    If we wait to reach conclusions how could we ever achieve status as a pundit?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    Leon said:

    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


    Snowflake!
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited March 2023
    Enjoying the Brexit queue of shame at Frankfurt, whilst all the other Europeans breeze through. Please Rishi can you put this on your list of Brexit nonsense to fix?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    Leon said:

    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


    Next week is still technically astronomical winter even if Meteorological Spring.

    Astronomical Spring doesn't technically start until 20th March
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,909
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


    That is called "spring".
    Potentially up to 20cm of lying snow in the South Midlands next week (though that's at the extreme end of the various models).
    It’s gonna be one of those “late springs” isn’t it? Like the horror that was spring of 2021. When winter just went on and on and on into early May

    And all of it during lockdown. Not sure I have ever quite recovered from that. Mentally
    Late springs are of course good for vineyards because the vines delay budburst until at least mid April, then are less likely to be hit by late frost.

    2018 was the ideal season and possible this time too. Cold from late February until early April then warm and sunny from mid April until early August.
    We could really do with some rain mind you. After last years baking hot summer, so far we're below average for rain heading into spring (barring the far NW).


  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,977

    Looks like the Ukrainians are abandoning Bakhmut.

    GG Bakhmut.

    That was a complete waste of everything. Well done to all involved.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    HYUFD said:

    So after his new Deal with the EU Sunak gains 2 from Labour but RefUK also up 1%.

    So still a clear Labour poll lead but a smaller gap and RefUK still heading for the highest voteshare for a party right of the Tories since the 12% Farage's previous vehicle, UKIP, got against Cameron in 2015

    Conservative + RefUK + LDs + Green + DKs = a nailed on Tory majority!
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,929
    Con hold in Tamworth after a recount.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    Looks like the Ukrainians are abandoning Bakhmut.

    Let is hope it's a situation of having totally sapped Russisn resources that could have gone elsewhere.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,380
    edited March 2023
    HYUFD said:

    So after his new Deal with the EU Sunak gains 2 from Labour but RefUK also up 1%.

    So still a clear Labour poll lead but a smaller gap and RefUK still heading for the highest voteshare for a party right of the Tories since the 12% Farage's previous vehicle, UKIP, got against Cameron in 2015

    On the other hand, it could all be random noise (well within the expected range of random sampling fluctuations). If we see a few polls with similar movements, then I'll be more convinced.

    ETA: I do expect a slight boost for the Conservatives (and have bet accordingly) but I don't see any convincing indications of it yet.
  • Options
    Jonathan said:

    Enjoying the Brexit queue of shame at Frankfurt, whilst all the other Europeans breeze through. Please Rishi can you put this on your list of Brexit nonsense to fix?

    Surely that is the Brexit queue of pride? We now Control Our Borders. If the Krauts and the Frogs and the other commie Euronazis don't want to that is their problem. Before we left the EU anyone could waltz in without showing a passport. Now we bloody well stop them. And if we have to queue because they are pigs that's a good price to pay.

    Hang on.

    No, we had passport checks already didn't we because not in Schengen. So what was the point again...?
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,286
    PeoplePolling
    @PeoplePolling
    ·
    2h
    NEW: Westminster Voting Intention poll (1 Mar):

    🔴 LAB: 45% (-1 from 22 Feb)
    🔵 CON: 24% (+4)
    🟠 LDM: 9% (+2)
    🟢 GRN: 8% (=)
    🟣 RFM: 7% (-2)
    🟡 SNP: 5% (=)

    PeoplePolling consistently the worst pollster for Con but even they have the lead down to 21.

    Three weeks ago, PeoplePolling had a Lab lead of 29 (50-21)
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,494
    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


    That is called "spring".
    It means it is month on Monday before the cricket season starts. And Spring started on Wednesday

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    ohnotnow said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


    That is called "spring".
    Potentially up to 20cm of lying snow in the South Midlands next week (though that's at the extreme end of the various models).
    It’s gonna be one of those “late springs” isn’t it? Like the horror that was spring of 2021. When winter just went on and on and on into early May

    And all of it during lockdown. Not sure I have ever quite recovered from that. Mentally
    Late springs are of course good for vineyards because the vines delay budburst until at least mid April, then are less likely to be hit by late frost.

    2018 was the ideal season and possible this time too. Cold from late February until early April then warm and sunny from mid April until early August.
    We could really do with some rain mind you. After last years baking hot summer, so far we're below average for rain heading into spring (barring the far NW).


    5.6mm of rain in Feb here - less than 10% of average.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    Enjoying the Brexit queue of shame at Frankfurt, whilst all the other Europeans breeze through. Please Rishi can you put this on your list of Brexit nonsense to fix?

    Surely that is the Brexit queue of pride? We now Control Our Borders. If the Krauts and the Frogs and the other commie Euronazis don't want to that is their problem. Before we left the EU anyone could waltz in without showing a passport. Now we bloody well stop them. And if we have to queue because they are pigs that's a good price to pay.

    Hang on.

    No, we had passport checks already didn't we because not in Schengen. So what was the point again...?
    Yup it just creates bureaucracy that wastes everyone’s time for no benefit.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    Leon said:

    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


    It's the joy of a variable climate.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,909

    ohnotnow said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


    That is called "spring".
    Potentially up to 20cm of lying snow in the South Midlands next week (though that's at the extreme end of the various models).
    It’s gonna be one of those “late springs” isn’t it? Like the horror that was spring of 2021. When winter just went on and on and on into early May

    And all of it during lockdown. Not sure I have ever quite recovered from that. Mentally
    Late springs are of course good for vineyards because the vines delay budburst until at least mid April, then are less likely to be hit by late frost.

    2018 was the ideal season and possible this time too. Cold from late February until early April then warm and sunny from mid April until early August.
    We could really do with some rain mind you. After last years baking hot summer, so far we're below average for rain heading into spring (barring the far NW).


    5.6mm of rain in Feb here - less than 10% of average.
    Jeez. 'Only' about 25% down here.

    When do the betting markets for 'first water company to announce restrictions' go up?...
  • Options
    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 45% (-1)
    CON: 24% (+4)
    LDM: 9% (+2)
    GRN: 8% (=)
    RFM: 7% (-2)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 1 Mar.
    Changes w/ 22 Feb.
  • Options
    LDLFLDLF Posts: 144
    edited March 2023
    ohnotnow said:

    FPT (apols - took me so long to type my post the new thread had appeared!)

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris tells Sunak and Hunt to slash corporation tax to Irish levels and reverse the 6% corporation tax rise they plan.

    He also comes out in opposition to British Museum Chairman George Osborne's plans to return the Elgin Marbles to Greece

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/02/boris-johnson-calls-corporation-tax-cut-irish-levels-fresh-challenge/

    Stating that the Elgin Marbles belong in London is a bit like saying the Crown Jewels belong in Athens!

    The British Museum = Biggest Stolen Goods Warehouse in the World!
    I think that's Boris's point. If the BM (or any museum for that matter) obliges itself to 'give everything back', it's not a museum, it's a room.
    Indeed, loan exhibits abroad but if every major museum only displayed objects from the country it was located in there wouldn't be a lot of exhibits left in them
    The Parthenon still exists, so the Marbles belong there.
    All the places that all the exhibits in all the museums in the world came from still exist.
    Not in the respect Sunil is talking about. The Elgin Marbles are literally fixtures ripped off the walls of an ancient building that is still there.

    In most cases, the item is either by its nature moveable, or the context in which it was displayed either gone or massively changed.

    It's objectively ludicrous - even if one attaches no blame to Elgin personally and thinks it all legal etc - that the Marbles are in Bloomsbury rather than an ancient building which they were literally part of and which (I'll repeat) is still effing there.
    There's another side to this that I find interesting, and that's the soft power of artefacts.

    A few years back, my son was fascinated by terracotta warriors and Easter Island heads. He was a bit too young to take him up to the Liverpool terracotta warrior exhibition in 2018, but last year we went to a tiny (but brilliant) 'fake' Terracotta Warrior exhibition in Dorchester, of all places, which he loved. (There's a fake Tutankhamun exhibition just up the road as well).

    This isn't relevant to the marbles, but I wonder if having exhibits around the world actually helps the original country? Does have an Easter Island head in the BM create more knowledge and interest about/in Easter Island? Do all the exhibits of Ancient Egypt in local museums, of dusty mummies and strange inscriptions, actually create generations of people who are interested in Egypt and its history, and therefore more likely to travel there?

    Would the world be richer if every ancient artefact was in its original place, or poorer? (Leaving aside issues if where an 'original' place is)?

    This is not an argument for musuems keeping foreign artefacts: the same sort of effect may be achieved by travelling exhibitions. But I reckon there's a massive soft power in it - especially for small places like Easter Island.

    A fun fact about the terracotta warriors is that most are still buried. When the first ones were unearthed they were all painted but exposure to light quickly made the colours fade away. They are now waiting for the appropriate preservation technology to be developed before digging out any more.

    IIRC most ancient statues in Rome, Greece etc were painted. The white marble we associate with the classics era is totally false.

    Or have I got that wrong?
    I've seen a few documentaries on that - and looks to be true (not sure if it was every statue mind). I've often wondered if all the trade that went on with India influenced in either direction or if it was just common across the ancient world. But when you look at Indian temples you have to wonder what Rome or Athens may have actually looked like!


    Egyptian statues were also painted, so the influence is almost certainly from there.

    When Classical statues were dug up in the Renaissance, they didn't realise that they had previously been painted, which is why Renaissance statues are in clean, white, unpainted marble. Michelangelo carved the pupils on the eyes of 'David', whereas on Classical sculptures there are no carved pupils as they would just have been painted.

    Though I would personally prefer them to stay in the British Museum, it is true that certain parts of the Parthenon Marbles were damaged (early 20thC I believe) by 'restorers' who filed away any traces of colour they could, presumably thinking the colour was just muck. They were stopped before they got any further so some colour traces still remain.

    In reality the statues of these civilizations (Egypt, Assyria, Greece, Rome) must have looked like something out of Las Vegas.

    The art of the ancient Mediterranean infuenced India and China (notably the Terracotta Army, and a great deal of Buddhist Art) via the Macedonian Empire (so-called 'Helenistic Period').
  • Options
    Do oral sex, hand jobs and fingering count as "having sex"?

    👄🍆: 45% counts / 41% does not count
    👅🍩: 44% / 40%
    🍩👈: 37% / 48%
    ✊🍆: 34% / 52%
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    F1: practice underway. Alonso currently fastest, ahead of Perez.

    And yes, those times are largely meaningless.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,216
    Nigelb said:

    Sub $200 per kilo to orbit will change a lot if things. The US military gets interested:
    https://spacenews.com/the-future-of-starship-includes-national-security-missions/

    A *cost* of $1250/Kg is tearing up the launch industry already

    The space launch industry is divided into

    1) SpaceX doesn’t exist. Their prices are fake. See ESA
    2) Due to politics we can’t build a fully reusable launcher to compete so we aim to be the other option for US Government contracts. See ULA.
    3) Copy Falcon 9 - see some renders from Europe, China on the web
    4) Ignore - much of the micro launcher industry
    5) we have a plan to be even cheaper - see Stoke Space
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,079
    kle4 said:

    If we wait to reach conclusions how could we ever achieve status as a pundit?

    That's exactly right. If you want to be a star you've got to get in there with a big fruity view well in advance of the evidence. If you wait for the evidence it's a lose/lose situation. Either it stacks up in support, in which case your big fruity view is neither big nor fruity by the time you deliver it, or it goes the other way, meaning it's now palpably false and you can't say it at all without looking an utter fool.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,306
    HYUFD said:

    So after his new Deal with the EU Sunak gains 2 from Labour but RefUK also up 1%.

    So still a clear Labour poll lead but a smaller gap and RefUK still heading for the highest voteshare for a party right of the Tories since the 12% Farage's previous vehicle, UKIP, got against Cameron in 2015

    It's not really after the deal - it's after the announcement of the deal.

    There are rumblings about the deal currently. My take on it is that any improvement is to be welcomed, but that there must a way out of the deal for both sides. There currently is a way out for the EU - they can cancel the green lanes, but is there a way out for the UK? We should be in a position where we can, after giving this deal a thorough chance of working, and after due process, revoke it and revive the NIP act. That seems wise and fair.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64835061

    Rupa Huq has been reinstated as a Labour MP, five months after she lost the whip for comments she made about Kwasi Kwarteng being "superficially black"
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,319
    I don't think Lord Hayward was actually right, or - more fairly - that his observation is still right today. The 24-hour cycle now moves at such a relentless pace that anything that hasn't made a significant mark in 2 days isn't going to make one in 2 weeks.

    Sunak had a larger bounce in that leader survey a couple of days ago, and that may be the more lasting effect - many people may feel the Tories are still overdue for Opposition but Sunak's quite competent.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    LDLF said:

    ohnotnow said:

    FPT (apols - took me so long to type my post the new thread had appeared!)

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris tells Sunak and Hunt to slash corporation tax to Irish levels and reverse the 6% corporation tax rise they plan.

    He also comes out in opposition to British Museum Chairman George Osborne's plans to return the Elgin Marbles to Greece

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/02/boris-johnson-calls-corporation-tax-cut-irish-levels-fresh-challenge/

    Stating that the Elgin Marbles belong in London is a bit like saying the Crown Jewels belong in Athens!

    The British Museum = Biggest Stolen Goods Warehouse in the World!
    I think that's Boris's point. If the BM (or any museum for that matter) obliges itself to 'give everything back', it's not a museum, it's a room.
    Indeed, loan exhibits abroad but if every major museum only displayed objects from the country it was located in there wouldn't be a lot of exhibits left in them
    The Parthenon still exists, so the Marbles belong there.
    All the places that all the exhibits in all the museums in the world came from still exist.
    Not in the respect Sunil is talking about. The Elgin Marbles are literally fixtures ripped off the walls of an ancient building that is still there.

    In most cases, the item is either by its nature moveable, or the context in which it was displayed either gone or massively changed.

    It's objectively ludicrous - even if one attaches no blame to Elgin personally and thinks it all legal etc - that the Marbles are in Bloomsbury rather than an ancient building which they were literally part of and which (I'll repeat) is still effing there.
    There's another side to this that I find interesting, and that's the soft power of artefacts.

    A few years back, my son was fascinated by terracotta warriors and Easter Island heads. He was a bit too young to take him up to the Liverpool terracotta warrior exhibition in 2018, but last year we went to a tiny (but brilliant) 'fake' Terracotta Warrior exhibition in Dorchester, of all places, which he loved. (There's a fake Tutankhamun exhibition just up the road as well).

    This isn't relevant to the marbles, but I wonder if having exhibits around the world actually helps the original country? Does have an Easter Island head in the BM create more knowledge and interest about/in Easter Island? Do all the exhibits of Ancient Egypt in local museums, of dusty mummies and strange inscriptions, actually create generations of people who are interested in Egypt and its history, and therefore more likely to travel there?

    Would the world be richer if every ancient artefact was in its original place, or poorer? (Leaving aside issues if where an 'original' place is)?

    This is not an argument for musuems keeping foreign artefacts: the same sort of effect may be achieved by travelling exhibitions. But I reckon there's a massive soft power in it - especially for small places like Easter Island.

    A fun fact about the terracotta warriors is that most are still buried. When the first ones were unearthed they were all painted but exposure to light quickly made the colours fade away. They are now waiting for the appropriate preservation technology to be developed before digging out any more.

    IIRC most ancient statues in Rome, Greece etc were painted. The white marble we associate with the classics era is totally false.

    Or have I got that wrong?
    I've seen a few documentaries on that - and looks to be true (not sure if it was every statue mind). I've often wondered if all the trade that went on with India influenced in either direction or if it was just common across the ancient world. But when you look at Indian temples you have to wonder what Rome or Athens may have actually looked like!


    Egyptian statues were also painted, so the influence is almost certainly from there.

    When Classical statues were dug up in the Renaissance, they didn't realise that they had previously been painted, which is why Renaissance statues are in clean, white, unpainted marble. Michelangelo carved the pupils on the eyes of 'David', whereas on Classical sculptures there are no carved pupils as they would just have been painted.

    Though I would personally prefer them to stay in the British Museum, it is true that certain parts of the Parthenon Marbles were damaged (early 20thC I believe) by 'restorers' who filed away any traces of colour they could, presumably thinking the colour was just muck. They were stopped before they got any further so some colour traces still remain.

    In reality the statues of these civilizations (Egypt, Assyria, Greece, Rome) must have looked like something out of Las Vegas.

    The art of the ancient Mediterranean infuenced India and China (notably the Terracotta Army, and a great deal of Buddhist Art) via the Macedonian Empire (so-called 'Helenistic Period').
    The same with medieval cathedrals. Actually, I rather like the austerity of bare stone, but some painted churches on Continent are quite stunning.

    There was a long-standing Hellenistic Kingdom in the Indus Valley, in the last two hundred years BC, so plenty of cultural influences would have travelled in either direction.
  • Options

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64835061

    Rupa Huq has been reinstated as a Labour MP, five months after she lost the whip for comments she made about Kwasi Kwarteng being "superficially black"

    Ms Huq, who said she fully accepted the sanction, has apologised and completed anti-racism training.

    Maybe some Tory MPs could learn something
  • Options

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64835061

    Rupa Huq has been reinstated as a Labour MP, five months after she lost the whip for comments she made about Kwasi Kwarteng being "superficially black"

    As a superficially brown man I’m still outraged at Huq’s comments.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789

    Do oral sex, hand jobs and fingering count as "having sex"?

    👄🍆: 45% counts / 41% does not count
    👅🍩: 44% / 40%
    🍩👈: 37% / 48%
    ✊🍆: 34% / 52%

    "Oral sex is not adultery. The Bible says so."

    People go to considerable lengths to exclude various forms of sexual activity from being sex.
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,929
    Green gain in Kent.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    If we wait to reach conclusions how could we ever achieve status as a pundit?

    That's exactly right. If you want to be a star you've got to get in there with a big fruity view well in advance of the evidence. If you wait for the evidence it's a lose/lose situation. Either it stacks up in support, in which case your big fruity view is neither big nor fruity by the time you deliver it, or it goes the other way, meaning it's now palpably false and you can't say it at all without looking an utter fool.
    Fascinating job in some ways. They're definitely not simply reporters of news, but most of them probably also don't count as journalists in how most people think of journalists investigating things, gathering information etc, even if they meet the dictionary definition.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64835061

    Rupa Huq has been reinstated as a Labour MP, five months after she lost the whip for comments she made about Kwasi Kwarteng being "superficially black"

    As a superficially brown man I’m still outraged at Huq’s comments.
    That'll be the internalised whiteness or something presumably.

    Actually for all I know that's now an official piece of doctrine, things move so quickly now.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64835061

    Rupa Huq has been reinstated as a Labour MP, five months after she lost the whip for comments she made about Kwasi Kwarteng being "superficially black"

    Ms Huq, who said she fully accepted the sanction, has apologised and completed anti-racism training.

    Maybe some Tory MPs could learn something
    If that was good enough for her, why couldn't that Tory who was looking at porn on his phone have gone on a course too?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Meant to be flying home next week, to spring! Having nearly dodged nearly all of the winter

    SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS


    That is called "spring".
    Potentially up to 20cm of lying snow in the South Midlands next week (though that's at the extreme end of the various models).
    It’s gonna be one of those “late springs” isn’t it? Like the horror that was spring of 2021. When winter just went on and on and on into early May

    And all of it during lockdown. Not sure I have ever quite recovered from that. Mentally
    Scotland, south west at least has been sunny and beautiful weather all week.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    Sean_F said:

    Do oral sex, hand jobs and fingering count as "having sex"?

    👄🍆: 45% counts / 41% does not count
    👅🍩: 44% / 40%
    🍩👈: 37% / 48%
    ✊🍆: 34% / 52%

    "Oral sex is not adultery. The Bible says so."

    People go to considerable lengths to exclude various forms of sexual activity from being sex.
    I seem to recall a survey showing some small number of people responding that vaginal or anal intercourse was not sex. Leading to someone to comment- what do they consider sex?
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,380
    edited March 2023

    Do oral sex, hand jobs and fingering count as "having sex"?

    👄🍆: 45% counts / 41% does not count
    👅🍩: 44% / 40%
    🍩👈: 37% / 48%
    ✊🍆: 34% / 52%

    Are those your symbols?

    The iced 'ring' symbol is perhaps unfortunate, unless I've misinterpreted the scope of hte question.

    And... an aubergine? Either you're hung like a horse, Horse or you have some unfortunate skin condition (or both?)

    Personally, I'd say not 'having sex' for all, but all definitely count as 'sexual relations' (sorry, Bill) :wink:

    ETA: Mind you, my verdict is from a heterosexual male point of view. Could indeed be 'having sex' for a same sex couple. So, put me down as a 'maybe'
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    I commend Steve Baker for talking about his mental health. That is not an easy thing to do but I have a huge amount of admiration for him in doing it.

    These clowns need some excuse for being useless at their jobs. No sympathy for these arseholes.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,336

    Nigelb said:

    Sub $200 per kilo to orbit will change a lot if things. The US military gets interested:
    https://spacenews.com/the-future-of-starship-includes-national-security-missions/

    A *cost* of $1250/Kg is tearing up the launch industry already...
    Assuming Starship works, they'll have most of the launch industry to themselves for around a decade. And will obviously remain one of the dominant players beyond that.

    Given its strategic importance, national governments will fund serious copycat programs, I think. And given that it's been shown to be possible, they'll succeed eventually.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Do oral sex, hand jobs and fingering count as "having sex"?

    👄🍆: 45% counts / 41% does not count
    👅🍩: 44% / 40%
    🍩👈: 37% / 48%
    ✊🍆: 34% / 52%

    "Oral sex is not adultery. The Bible says so."

    People go to considerable lengths to exclude various forms of sexual activity from being sex.
    I seem to recall a survey showing some small number of people responding that vaginal or anal intercourse was not sex. Leading to someone to comment- what do they consider sex?
    "It's not cheating if it's with a member of the same sex" is quite a popular trope as well.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64835061

    Rupa Huq has been reinstated as a Labour MP, five months after she lost the whip for comments she made about Kwasi Kwarteng being "superficially black"

    Ms Huq, who said she fully accepted the sanction, has apologised and completed anti-racism training.

    Maybe some Tory MPs could learn something
    If that was good enough for her, why couldn't that Tory who was looking at porn on his phone have gone on a course too?
    He chose to quit. I thought that excessive to be honest, notwithstanding it would probably get you fired from a normal job. In Huqs case I assumed her suspension had already ended - if you've apologised (even though it's usually insincere) a few months on the naughty step seems as much as would be done.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,079
    It all counts.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64835061

    Rupa Huq has been reinstated as a Labour MP, five months after she lost the whip for comments she made about Kwasi Kwarteng being "superficially black"

    Ms Huq, who said she fully accepted the sanction, has apologised and completed anti-racism training.

    Maybe some Tory MPs could learn something
    If that was good enough for her, why couldn't that Tory who was looking at porn on his phone have gone on a course too?
    He chose to quit. I thought that excessive to be honest, notwithstanding it would probably get you fired from a normal job. In Huqs case I assumed her suspension had already ended - if you've apologised (even though it's usually insincere) a few months on the naughty step seems as much as would be done.
    I suspect there would have been more outrage had a (white?) Tory made comments like this about black Labour MP.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,216
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sub $200 per kilo to orbit will change a lot if things. The US military gets interested:
    https://spacenews.com/the-future-of-starship-includes-national-security-missions/

    A *cost* of $1250/Kg is tearing up the launch industry already...
    Assuming Starship works, they'll have most of the launch industry to themselves for around a decade. And will obviously remain one of the dominant players beyond that.

    Given its strategic importance, national governments will fund serious copycat programs, I think. And given that it's been shown to be possible, they'll succeed eventually.
    The problem is that, to make an aerospace system cheap, you need to tear up "The big pyramid of contracts" thing that government contracting nearly always works on. Not just in the US.

    It is interesting (and instructive) to listen to the politicians trying to articulate this, when it comes to SAA style contracts vs FAR in the US.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    I commend Steve Baker for talking about his mental health. That is not an easy thing to do but I have a huge amount of admiration for him in doing it.

    That sort of admission is becoming more acceptable, which is good. I thought his admission that thinking it was funny to admit to being a Brexit hard man was stupid and it probably cost him votes was a more unusual admission
  • Options
    Selebian said:

    Do oral sex, hand jobs and fingering count as "having sex"?

    👄🍆: 45% counts / 41% does not count
    👅🍩: 44% / 40%
    🍩👈: 37% / 48%
    ✊🍆: 34% / 52%

    Are those your symbols?

    The iced 'ring' symbol is perhaps unfortunate, unless I've misinterpreted the scope of hte question.

    And... an aubergine? Either you're hung like a horse, Horse or you have some unfortunate skin condition (or both?)

    Personally, I'd say not 'having sex' for all, but all definitely count as 'sexual relations' (sorry, Bill) :wink:

    ETA: Mind you, my verdict is from a heterosexual male point of view. Could indeed be 'having sex' for a same sex couple. So, put me down as a 'maybe'
    No.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    Dura_Ace said:

    Looks like the Ukrainians are abandoning Bakhmut.

    GG Bakhmut.

    That was a complete waste of everything. Well done to all involved.
    Russians got a fair skelping to take a pointless location. They don't seem to have anyone with anything between the ears able to plan a military offensive.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    I commend Steve Baker for talking about his mental health. That is not an easy thing to do but I have a huge amount of admiration for him in doing it.

    That sort of admission is becoming more acceptable, which is good. I thought his admission that thinking it was funny to admit to being a Brexit hard man was stupid and it probably cost him votes was a more unusual admission
    A few years ago he'd have been called woke. There is hope for the Tory Party yet if people like him can remain around, despite my disagreement with basically everything he says I don't doubt he's a decent enough chap
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    malcolmg said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Looks like the Ukrainians are abandoning Bakhmut.

    GG Bakhmut.

    That was a complete waste of everything. Well done to all involved.
    Russians got a fair skelping to take a pointless location. They don't seem to have anyone with anything between the ears able to plan a military offensive.
    PS Ukraine held on too long as well in the end though.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    TimS said:

    malcolmg said:

    Looks like the Ukrainians are abandoning Bakhmut.

    They should have been out a week or two ago
    The 4D chess move would be to announce you're abandoning Bakhmut, do so slowly but while putting up a fighting retreat, suck all the Wagnerites into the town centre and while they're celebrating mount a big attack on both flanks surrounding them and cutting them off.
    Just HIMAR them once they are in town centre
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64835061

    Rupa Huq has been reinstated as a Labour MP, five months after she lost the whip for comments she made about Kwasi Kwarteng being "superficially black"

    Ms Huq, who said she fully accepted the sanction, has apologised and completed anti-racism training.

    Maybe some Tory MPs could learn something
    If that was good enough for her, why couldn't that Tory who was looking at porn on his phone have gone on a course too?
    He chose to quit. I thought that excessive to be honest, notwithstanding it would probably get you fired from a normal job. In Huqs case I assumed her suspension had already ended - if you've apologised (even though it's usually insincere) a few months on the naughty step seems as much as would be done.
    I suspect there would have been more outrage had a (white?) Tory made comments like this about black Labour MP.
    I'm 100% sure that's true. But if the guilty party admit wrongdoing this is how it will always play out.

    I doubt she is apologetic personally - it wasnt some thoughtless aside made after having a few at the bar, she even developed it as a thought about what he sounds like, and she had to know what her comments sounded like.

    On balance it seems likely she meant it and means it. But she was smart enough to walk it back.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,050

    kle4 said:

    I commend Steve Baker for talking about his mental health. That is not an easy thing to do but I have a huge amount of admiration for him in doing it.

    That sort of admission is becoming more acceptable, which is good. I thought his admission that thinking it was funny to admit to being a Brexit hard man was stupid and it probably cost him votes was a more unusual admission
    A few years ago he'd have been called woke. There is hope for the Tory Party yet if people like him can remain around, despite my disagreement with basically everything he says I don't doubt he's a decent enough chap
    A few years ago two MP's, Kevan Jones and Charles Walker, talked about their mental health

    No one called it woke.
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,199
    edited March 2023
    A foot of snow forecast in Tallinn in the next few days, but sunny and clear at the moment.

    For those who care, a final update on the Estonian election, which finishes on Sunday. At least a third of votes have already been cast online, but the polls are showing a wide range of outcomes. Some suggest that EKRE, the populist right wingers could be very close behind the ruling Reform party, others suggest that EKRE, which has been caught up in a scandal that suggests they have received money from the Wagner group, might lose seats and even come fourth. The consistent features of the polls are i) Reform likely to top the poll, 2) Centre likely to lose seats 3) Eesti 200 likely to enter the Parliament for the first time. The problem is that behind these big picture points, the nuances will still be critical in establishing who forms the government.

    Reform have been generally falling over the course of the campaign which reflects a dollop of bad economic news, and their Conservative Isamaa allies have also been under pressure perhaps being punished for their participation in the previous Centre-EKRE-Isamaa coalition. Certainly Isamaa are likely to lose seats. The big question will then be how well Eesti 200 does. Most likely Eesti 200 will support Kaja Kallas to return as Prime Minister, and with the Social Democrats (SDE) seemingly holding their own, a new coalition of Reform-Eesti 200-SDE would be the most viable.

    If EKRE poll in line with their best forecasts, 22% versus only 24% for Reform, then there is still a possibility of EKRE-Centre-Isamaa, which would give EKRE leader, Martin Helme, the reins of government and would be something of a political earthquake.

    My own view is that Reform will still poll around the 29% they got in 2019, and will hold their 34 seats, with the possibility of a net gain or loss of about 2. Centre, EKRE and Eesti 200 will all poll in the teens, with Centre polling around 19% (down from 24% in 2019) and losing 6 or 7 seats from their current 26. EKRE support is very volatile, and until the Wagner scandal I would have forecast then second on around 20% (up from 17% last time), with a gain of around five on the 19 they got last time. Now, however, I think it possible that they may poll only 14% and lose as many as five seats. Eesti 200 seem set to gain about 14%, which would give them around 15 seats (none last time). Isamaa will probably lose 3-4 of the 12 seats that they hold and fall from 11 to around 8%, while the SDE will be flat at 9% of the vote and will hold their 10 seats.

    So at the finishing post it could be Reform, Centre, Eesti 200, EKRE, SDE and Isamaa. However, at least two polls suggest it could be Reform, EKRE, Centre, Eesti 200, Isamaa, SDE.

    All will become clear on Sunday evening.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    Selebian said:

    Do oral sex, hand jobs and fingering count as "having sex"?

    👄🍆: 45% counts / 41% does not count
    👅🍩: 44% / 40%
    🍩👈: 37% / 48%
    ✊🍆: 34% / 52%

    Are those your symbols?

    The iced 'ring' symbol is perhaps unfortunate, unless I've misinterpreted the scope of hte question.

    And... an aubergine? Either you're hung like a horse, Horse or you have some unfortunate skin condition (or both?)

    Personally, I'd say not 'having sex' for all, but all definitely count as 'sexual relations' (sorry, Bill) :wink:

    ETA: Mind you, my verdict is from a heterosexual male point of view. Could indeed be 'having sex' for a same sex couple. So, put me down as a 'maybe'
    No.
    tacky post in any case
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited March 2023

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64835061

    Rupa Huq has been reinstated as a Labour MP, five months after she lost the whip for comments she made about Kwasi Kwarteng being "superficially black"

    As a superficially brown man I’m still outraged at Huq’s comments.
    Where as Michael Vaughan, despite denying saying what is claimed (and nobody else has come forward making any complaints about real or perceived racism and even the other witness saying their recollection was something like that was said (exactly wording up in the air) have been said as an ill-judged joke rather than anything racist) volunteered to go on a similar course and still lost his job and now having this ridiculous situation of multi-day "trial".
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,708

    kle4 said:

    I commend Steve Baker for talking about his mental health. That is not an easy thing to do but I have a huge amount of admiration for him in doing it.

    That sort of admission is becoming more acceptable, which is good. I thought his admission that thinking it was funny to admit to being a Brexit hard man was stupid and it probably cost him votes was a more unusual admission
    A few years ago he'd have been called woke. There is hope for the Tory Party yet if people like him can remain around, despite my disagreement with basically everything he says I don't doubt he's a decent enough chap
    A few years ago woke wasn't used as a term.

    I very much doubt that you disagree with basically everything he says. I'd recommend a listen to him on the Nick Robinson podcast below:

    https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-steve-baker-one/id1224154223?i=1000434770432
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,050

    Jonathan said:

    Enjoying the Brexit queue of shame at Frankfurt, whilst all the other Europeans breeze through. Please Rishi can you put this on your list of Brexit nonsense to fix?

    The absence of a queue would surely have been a grave disappointment? A remoaner going to ROEU and not suffering queuing would be like going to Lourdes and not getting any water. Infact, I hope you're really lucky and the passport checker gives you a dirty look whilst asking his improper questions.
    "A remoaner going to ROEU and not suffering queuing would be like going to Lourdes and not getting any water."

    Yup, it is like Jeremy Vine going on a bike trip and not finding a driver to moan about on twitter.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,227
    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris tells Sunak and Hunt to slash corporation tax to Irish levels and reverse the 6% corporation tax rise they plan.

    He also comes out in opposition to British Museum Chairman George Osborne's plans to return the Elgin Marbles to Greece

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/02/boris-johnson-calls-corporation-tax-cut-irish-levels-fresh-challenge/

    Stating that the Elgin Marbles belong in London is a bit like saying the Crown Jewels belong in Athens!

    The British Museum = Biggest Stolen Goods Warehouse in the World!
    I think that's Boris's point. If the BM (or any museum for that matter) obliges itself to 'give everything back', it's not a museum, it's a room.
    Indeed, loan exhibits abroad but if every major museum only displayed objects from the country it was located in there wouldn't be a lot of exhibits left in them
    The Parthenon still exists, so the Marbles belong there.
    All the places that all the exhibits in all the museums in the world came from still exist.
    It’s true but also false.

    The Parthenon doesn’t exist anymore as it did when the marbles were there.

    The people who built it don’t exist in the sense of culture anymore.

    The state, the Athenian City State, doesn’t exist anymore.

    So theoretically to return the marbles would not be returning them to where they were from except in a purely physical sense. And then you might have to consider if their physical origin is then the quarry where the marble came from.

    Throughout the world there are works of art and objects that sit far away from their original home because someone with more means, money or power had the greed, desire, belief, or genuine love to buy them from whoever might have been their rightful owners or take them from a vanquished foe.

    Whilst the above is slightly tongue in cheek it’s a thread that gets pulled for good reasons that unravels out of control.
    I'm not sure the people not existing any more in the sense of culture and the state not existing matter very much. Think of how much further we are from the people who made Stonehenge, yet there would be strong cultural heritage objections if there was a plan to sell the stones to the Chinese to be shipped to a park outside Beijing.
    Good evening, kamski.

    Did you see this article… and are its characterisations of German politics fair ?

    The truth about Germany’s defense policy shift
    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-zeitenwende-defense-spending-nato-gdp-target-scholz-ukraine-war-russia/
    I'm not sure if I'd call it fair, it seems a bit shallow. On the specific complaint about the extra 100 billion not being spent I can't say much. Except that it is twice the annual German defense budget, so it would be surprising if they had managed to spend it all in a year, and I guess it's also normal that most of the 30 billion already contracted for won't actually be paid out until things are actually delivered. He probably has a point on the slow progress towards 2% in the normal defence budget.

    The suggestion that nothing has changed is obviously wrong. There have been massive shifts. I think Scholz is a poor leader, and the SPD hasn't given anyone much reason to believe in them. Also people like Merkel and the awful Schröder are refusing to admit that they got things wrong. But Germany has had to move further than most countries - I would guess the support Ukraine has had from Germany, and the relative success Germany has had in doing without Russian energy supplies have been among the bigger disappointments Putin has had in his disastrous war.

    On only 46% of Germans regarding the US as a reliable military partner: the figures are 46% yes and 27% no. This is much more positive than when Trump was president - in 2019 only 19% regarded the US as a reliable partner, and 57% not. This suggests that one of the reasons why Germans (and others - Germany is hardly an outlier here) are suspicious of US foreign policy is to do with US foreign policy and leadership, rather than being mainly the fault of politicians like Scholz, as the author claims.

  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,708
    malcolmg said:

    Selebian said:

    Do oral sex, hand jobs and fingering count as "having sex"?

    👄🍆: 45% counts / 41% does not count
    👅🍩: 44% / 40%
    🍩👈: 37% / 48%
    ✊🍆: 34% / 52%

    Are those your symbols?

    The iced 'ring' symbol is perhaps unfortunate, unless I've misinterpreted the scope of hte question.

    And... an aubergine? Either you're hung like a horse, Horse or you have some unfortunate skin condition (or both?)

    Personally, I'd say not 'having sex' for all, but all definitely count as 'sexual relations' (sorry, Bill) :wink:

    ETA: Mind you, my verdict is from a heterosexual male point of view. Could indeed be 'having sex' for a same sex couple. So, put me down as a 'maybe'
    No.
    tacky post in any case
    Why on earth run that survey in the first place? Who pays for this shit?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    edited March 2023
    Selebian said:

    Do oral sex, hand jobs and fingering count as "having sex"?

    👄🍆: 45% counts / 41% does not count
    👅🍩: 44% / 40%
    🍩👈: 37% / 48%
    ✊🍆: 34% / 52%

    Are those your symbols?

    The iced 'ring' symbol is perhaps unfortunate, unless I've misinterpreted the scope of hte question.

    And... an aubergine? Either you're hung like a horse, Horse or you have some unfortunate skin condition (or both?)

    Personally, I'd say not 'having sex' for all, but all definitely count as 'sexual relations' (sorry, Bill) :wink:

    ETA: Mind you, my verdict is from a heterosexual male point of view. Could indeed be 'having sex' for a same sex couple. So, put me down as a 'maybe'
    The aubergine thing probably applies if somebody has laced a packet of condoms with oven cleaner, as in one Tom Sharpe novel.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,216
    Talking of Ukraine

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/11gwupk/belarusian_partisans_handed_over_unique_video/

    Alleged video from the attack on the Russian AWACS plane
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,050
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64835061

    Rupa Huq has been reinstated as a Labour MP, five months after she lost the whip for comments she made about Kwasi Kwarteng being "superficially black"

    Ms Huq, who said she fully accepted the sanction, has apologised and completed anti-racism training.

    Maybe some Tory MPs could learn something
    If that was good enough for her, why couldn't that Tory who was looking at porn on his phone have gone on a course too?
    He chose to quit. I thought that excessive to be honest, notwithstanding it would probably get you fired from a normal job. In Huqs case I assumed her suspension had already ended - if you've apologised (even though it's usually insincere) a few months on the naughty step seems as much as would be done.
    I suspect there would have been more outrage had a (white?) Tory made comments like this about black Labour MP.
    I suspect the level of outrage would depend on the political perspective of the persons political opponent.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    malcolmg said:

    I commend Steve Baker for talking about his mental health. That is not an easy thing to do but I have a huge amount of admiration for him in doing it.

    These clowns need some excuse for being useless at their jobs. No sympathy for these arseholes.
    Is he useless at his job though? Until recently he was not a minister so his job was to represent his constituents and apply his judgement on their behalf.

    It might not be technically possible to be useless in that case, which us handy, just having horrible judgement.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,079

    I don't think Lord Hayward was actually right, or - more fairly - that his observation is still right today. The 24-hour cycle now moves at such a relentless pace that anything that hasn't made a significant mark in 2 days isn't going to make one in 2 weeks.

    Sunak had a larger bounce in that leader survey a couple of days ago, and that may be the more lasting effect - many people may feel the Tories are still overdue for Opposition but Sunak's quite competent.

    With the big 3 factors from GE19 gone - Boris Brexit Corbyn - you're left with the basic situation, which is the Tories trying to extend their term in power from 14 to 19 years without any convincing answer to the question "Why?"

    It's surely a forlorn task.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    Stocky said:

    malcolmg said:

    Selebian said:

    Do oral sex, hand jobs and fingering count as "having sex"?

    👄🍆: 45% counts / 41% does not count
    👅🍩: 44% / 40%
    🍩👈: 37% / 48%
    ✊🍆: 34% / 52%

    Are those your symbols?

    The iced 'ring' symbol is perhaps unfortunate, unless I've misinterpreted the scope of hte question.

    And... an aubergine? Either you're hung like a horse, Horse or you have some unfortunate skin condition (or both?)

    Personally, I'd say not 'having sex' for all, but all definitely count as 'sexual relations' (sorry, Bill) :wink:

    ETA: Mind you, my verdict is from a heterosexual male point of view. Could indeed be 'having sex' for a same sex couple. So, put me down as a 'maybe'
    No.
    tacky post in any case
    Why on earth run that survey in the first place? Who pays for this shit?
    Social values tracking? Churches could use it to show breakdown of society. You need a permission slip from God to do that stuff.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,380
    Stocky said:

    malcolmg said:

    Selebian said:

    Do oral sex, hand jobs and fingering count as "having sex"?

    👄🍆: 45% counts / 41% does not count
    👅🍩: 44% / 40%
    🍩👈: 37% / 48%
    ✊🍆: 34% / 52%

    Are those your symbols?

    The iced 'ring' symbol is perhaps unfortunate, unless I've misinterpreted the scope of hte question.

    And... an aubergine? Either you're hung like a horse, Horse or you have some unfortunate skin condition (or both?)

    Personally, I'd say not 'having sex' for all, but all definitely count as 'sexual relations' (sorry, Bill) :wink:

    ETA: Mind you, my verdict is from a heterosexual male point of view. Could indeed be 'having sex' for a same sex couple. So, put me down as a 'maybe'
    No.
    tacky post in any case
    Why on earth run that survey in the first place? Who pays for this shit?
    It's the kind of thing that will get all over Twitter, I should think, maybe even a short piece on some newspaper websites (Star [some quite funny headline]; Sun [some generic headline], maybe even Mail ["Tide of filth as Brits discuss sex acts"]). Exposure for a polling company, very cheap to run, no need to worry about whether the sample is in any way representative (no one's going to care to re-run it or dispute the results).

    It could even get picked up on a reputable political betting website.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    Selebian said:

    Stocky said:

    malcolmg said:

    Selebian said:

    Do oral sex, hand jobs and fingering count as "having sex"?

    👄🍆: 45% counts / 41% does not count
    👅🍩: 44% / 40%
    🍩👈: 37% / 48%
    ✊🍆: 34% / 52%

    Are those your symbols?

    The iced 'ring' symbol is perhaps unfortunate, unless I've misinterpreted the scope of hte question.

    And... an aubergine? Either you're hung like a horse, Horse or you have some unfortunate skin condition (or both?)

    Personally, I'd say not 'having sex' for all, but all definitely count as 'sexual relations' (sorry, Bill) :wink:

    ETA: Mind you, my verdict is from a heterosexual male point of view. Could indeed be 'having sex' for a same sex couple. So, put me down as a 'maybe'
    No.
    tacky post in any case
    Why on earth run that survey in the first place? Who pays for this shit?
    It's the kind of thing that will get all over Twitter, I should think, maybe even a short piece on some newspaper websites (Star [some quite funny headline]; Sun [some generic headline], maybe even Mail ["Tide of filth as Brits discuss sex acts"]). Exposure for a polling company, very cheap to run, no need to worry about whether the sample is in any way representative (no one's going to care to re-run it or dispute the results).

    It could even get picked up on a reputable political betting website.
    Possibly. Best keep an eye out on them.
This discussion has been closed.