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Can we now Rule out a Johnson comeback? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    London voted Remain and has more people than Scotland and also left the EU and single market with the rest of GB, so what? What next? Special Deals for Remain voting Cheltenham, Oxford, Cambridge, Maidenhead and Tunbridge Wells and Godalming too?

    Northern Ireland also has a border with an EU nation and the GFA to uphold, neither scenario applies to Scotland
    Scotland has a border with several EU nations. It's called the North Sea.

    Political discourse has been all about the Irish Sea Border for years - including you most recently, this very day.

    Same logic applies ...
    No Scotland has a border with British waters, as does the rest of GB
    Not true. No such thing as GB waters. Only UK or Scottish, depending on the context (e.g. fisheries or defence|), at least up here (not sure about Isle of Man etc in rUK).
    UK waters then but definitely no border with another EU nation.

    Scotland's only border is with England, a land border within the UK
    Funny then that the Scottish Government administers the waters around Scotland. Looks awfully like borders with the Faroes, Norway, and perhaps Denmark.

    In any case, there are these things called "aeroplanes" which Messrs Wright discovered and which I have travelled on from Edinburgh, at a wee village called Turnhouse, to an "aerodrome" in the United States, and I had to show a passport at both ends, at things called "border controls".

    And why do you keep harping on about the Irish Sea Border, anyway, if sea borders don't exist?
    They are UK waters not Scottish government waters. None of the seas bordering the land of Scotland belongs to any other nation than the UK.

    Yes, you need a passport to travel to any nation outside the British Isles, so what?

    The Irish Sea border had now been eliminated effectively by the new green lanes on goods travelling between GB and NI as part of Sunak’s Deal with the EU this week
    Sorry, but The Crown Estate only covers waters off England, Wales and NI. Crown Estate Scotland is a separate body with custody of Scottish waters.
    The King of Scotland is also King of the UK and King Charles III owns Crown Estate Scotland in right of the Crown. Holyrood doesn't own it
    There isn't a King of Scotland.
    There is, King Charles III is King of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland within the UK.

    Plus the UK government is responsible for all border patrols and national security in UK waters
    The Kingdoms of England and Scotland haven't existed for hundreds of years.

    For someone who claims to be a royalist, you certainly don't know much about the monarchy.
    They do within the United Kingdom, hence the title.

    The title?

    His Majesty Charles the Third, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith

    He's the King of the the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and His other Realms and Territories. No title King of England, since the Kingdom of England was abolished centuries ago.
    The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland and the King is head of state of both
    Bit of a howler of an omission there. "The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland."

    Unless you are stuck in a pre-1800 mindset.

    Did you really study history?
    There is no Kingdom of Northern Ireland only a province within the UK, the Kingdom of Ireland ended in 1948
    "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is where we are at.

    Your definition of the UK only has England and Scotland.

    Not correct.
    The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a single Kingdom, not two separate Kingdoms.

    United is the first clue. Kingdom (singular) is the second clue.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,879
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    London voted Remain and has more people than Scotland and also left the EU and single market with the rest of GB, so what? What next? Special Deals for Remain voting Cheltenham, Oxford, Cambridge, Maidenhead and Tunbridge Wells and Godalming too?

    Northern Ireland also has a border with an EU nation and the GFA to uphold, neither scenario applies to Scotland
    Scotland has a border with several EU nations. It's called the North Sea.

    Political discourse has been all about the Irish Sea Border for years - including you most recently, this very day.

    Same logic applies ...
    No Scotland has a border with British waters, as does the rest of GB
    Not true. No such thing as GB waters. Only UK or Scottish, depending on the context (e.g. fisheries or defence|), at least up here (not sure about Isle of Man etc in rUK).
    UK waters then but definitely no border with another EU nation.

    Scotland's only border is with England, a land border within the UK
    Funny then that the Scottish Government administers the waters around Scotland. Looks awfully like borders with the Faroes, Norway, and perhaps Denmark.

    In any case, there are these things called "aeroplanes" which Messrs Wright discovered and which I have travelled on from Edinburgh, at a wee village called Turnhouse, to an "aerodrome" in the United States, and I had to show a passport at both ends, at things called "border controls".

    And why do you keep harping on about the Irish Sea Border, anyway, if sea borders don't exist?
    They are UK waters not Scottish government waters. None of the seas bordering the land of Scotland belongs to any other nation than the UK.

    Yes, you need a passport to travel to any nation outside the British Isles, so what?

    The Irish Sea border had now been eliminated effectively by the new green lanes on goods travelling between GB and NI as part of Sunak’s Deal with the EU this week
    Sorry, but The Crown Estate only covers waters off England, Wales and NI. Crown Estate Scotland is a separate body with custody of Scottish waters.
    The King of Scotland is also King of the UK and King Charles III owns Crown Estate Scotland in right of the Crown. Holyrood doesn't own it
    There isn't a King of Scotland.
    There is, King Charles III is King of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland within the UK.

    Plus the UK government is responsible for all border patrols and national security in UK waters
    The Kingdoms of England and Scotland haven't existed for hundreds of years.

    For someone who claims to be a royalist, you certainly don't know much about the monarchy.
    They do within the United Kingdom, hence the title.

    The title?

    His Majesty Charles the Third, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith

    He's the King of the the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and His other Realms and Territories. No title King of England, since the Kingdom of England was abolished centuries ago.
    The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland and the King is head of state of both
    Bit of a howler of an omission there. "The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland."

    Unless you are stuck in a pre-1800 mindset.

    Did you really study history?
    There is no Kingdom of Northern Ireland only a province within the UK, the Kingdom of Ireland ended in 1948
    "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is where we are at.

    Your definition of the UK only has England and Scotland.

    Not correct.
    Only England and Scotland are Kingdoms within the UK.

    Wales is part of the Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland only a province within the UK
    Wales is part of England? Huge if true.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,879

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    London voted Remain and has more people than Scotland and also left the EU and single market with the rest of GB, so what? What next? Special Deals for Remain voting Cheltenham, Oxford, Cambridge, Maidenhead and Tunbridge Wells and Godalming too?

    Northern Ireland also has a border with an EU nation and the GFA to uphold, neither scenario applies to Scotland
    Scotland has a border with several EU nations. It's called the North Sea.

    Political discourse has been all about the Irish Sea Border for years - including you most recently, this very day.

    Same logic applies ...
    No Scotland has a border with British waters, as does the rest of GB
    Not true. No such thing as GB waters. Only UK or Scottish, depending on the context (e.g. fisheries or defence|), at least up here (not sure about Isle of Man etc in rUK).
    UK waters then but definitely no border with another EU nation.

    Scotland's only border is with England, a land border within the UK
    Funny then that the Scottish Government administers the waters around Scotland. Looks awfully like borders with the Faroes, Norway, and perhaps Denmark.

    In any case, there are these things called "aeroplanes" which Messrs Wright discovered and which I have travelled on from Edinburgh, at a wee village called Turnhouse, to an "aerodrome" in the United States, and I had to show a passport at both ends, at things called "border controls".

    And why do you keep harping on about the Irish Sea Border, anyway, if sea borders don't exist?
    They are UK waters not Scottish government waters. None of the seas bordering the land of Scotland belongs to any other nation than the UK.

    Yes, you need a passport to travel to any nation outside the British Isles, so what?

    The Irish Sea border had now been eliminated effectively by the new green lanes on goods travelling between GB and NI as part of Sunak’s Deal with the EU this week
    Sorry, but The Crown Estate only covers waters off England, Wales and NI. Crown Estate Scotland is a separate body with custody of Scottish waters.
    The King of Scotland is also King of the UK and King Charles III owns Crown Estate Scotland in right of the Crown. Holyrood doesn't own it
    There isn't a King of Scotland.
    There is, King Charles III is King of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland within the UK.

    Plus the UK government is responsible for all border patrols and national security in UK waters
    The Kingdoms of England and Scotland haven't existed for hundreds of years.

    For someone who claims to be a royalist, you certainly don't know much about the monarchy.
    They do within the United Kingdom, hence the title.

    The title?

    His Majesty Charles the Third, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith

    He's the King of the the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and His other Realms and Territories. No title King of England, since the Kingdom of England was abolished centuries ago.
    The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland and the King is head of state of both
    Bit of a howler of an omission there. "The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland."

    Unless you are stuck in a pre-1800 mindset.

    Did you really study history?
    There is no Kingdom of Northern Ireland only a province within the UK, the Kingdom of Ireland ended in 1948
    "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is where we are at.

    Your definition of the UK only has England and Scotland.

    Not correct.
    The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a single Kingdom, not two separate Kingdoms.

    United is the first clue. Kingdom (singular) is the second clue.
    Oh yes, but I'm talking about HYUFD's logic. He's saying there are two distinct kingdoms of England and of Scotland. Where is NI?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995
    edited February 2023

    The Times reports Johnson will back the deal as he does not want to look 'silly' by siding with 12 or 15 hardliners

    Rare for him to be concerned about looking silly !!!!

    So. He'll be supporting the repeal and replacement of the arrangement he negotiated, signed and trumpeted.
    For fear of looking silly.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052

    If Northern Ireland is entirely within the UK single market why the concerns of the DUP? Why is Rishi trying SO HARD to sell the deal as great for Northern Ireland? That won't win him (m)any votes at the next election.

    Unforced error
    The reality is that Northern Ireland will still be subject to the jurisdiction of the ECJ. There will still be a customs border, albeit less onerous.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    London voted Remain and has more people than Scotland and also left the EU and single market with the rest of GB, so what? What next? Special Deals for Remain voting Cheltenham, Oxford, Cambridge, Maidenhead and Tunbridge Wells and Godalming too?

    Northern Ireland also has a border with an EU nation and the GFA to uphold, neither scenario applies to Scotland
    Scotland has a border with several EU nations. It's called the North Sea.

    Political discourse has been all about the Irish Sea Border for years - including you most recently, this very day.

    Same logic applies ...
    No Scotland has a border with British waters, as does the rest of GB
    Not true. No such thing as GB waters. Only UK or Scottish, depending on the context (e.g. fisheries or defence|), at least up here (not sure about Isle of Man etc in rUK).
    UK waters then but definitely no border with another EU nation.

    Scotland's only border is with England, a land border within the UK
    Funny then that the Scottish Government administers the waters around Scotland. Looks awfully like borders with the Faroes, Norway, and perhaps Denmark.

    In any case, there are these things called "aeroplanes" which Messrs Wright discovered and which I have travelled on from Edinburgh, at a wee village called Turnhouse, to an "aerodrome" in the United States, and I had to show a passport at both ends, at things called "border controls".

    And why do you keep harping on about the Irish Sea Border, anyway, if sea borders don't exist?
    They are UK waters not Scottish government waters. None of the seas bordering the land of Scotland belongs to any other nation than the UK.

    Yes, you need a passport to travel to any nation outside the British Isles, so what?

    The Irish Sea border had now been eliminated effectively by the new green lanes on goods travelling between GB and NI as part of Sunak’s Deal with the EU this week
    Sorry, but The Crown Estate only covers waters off England, Wales and NI. Crown Estate Scotland is a separate body with custody of Scottish waters.
    The King of Scotland is also King of the UK and King Charles III owns Crown Estate Scotland in right of the Crown. Holyrood doesn't own it
    There isn't a King of Scotland.
    There is, King Charles III is King of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland within the UK.

    Plus the UK government is responsible for all border patrols and national security in UK waters
    The Kingdoms of England and Scotland haven't existed for hundreds of years.

    For someone who claims to be a royalist, you certainly don't know much about the monarchy.
    They do within the United Kingdom, hence the title.

    The title?

    His Majesty Charles the Third, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith

    He's the King of the the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and His other Realms and Territories. No title King of England, since the Kingdom of England was abolished centuries ago.
    The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland and the King is head of state of both
    Bit of a howler of an omission there. "The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland."

    Unless you are stuck in a pre-1800 mindset.

    Did you really study history?
    There is no Kingdom of Northern Ireland only a province within the UK, the Kingdom of Ireland ended in 1948
    "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is where we are at.

    Your definition of the UK only has England and Scotland.

    Not correct.
    Only England and Scotland are Kingdoms within the UK.

    Wales is part of the Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland only a province within the UK
    Wales is part of England? Huge if true.
    It was, when the Kingdom of England existed.

    It hasn't for more than three centuries though.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This “hard border in the North Sea but not in the Irish Sea” has all the hallmarks of the PB Brit Nat classic “hard border on the Tweed but not on the Foyle”.

    There is no hard border between Scotland and England nor between GB and NI after this Deal either.

    The only difference in Ireland is the UK government has not imposed a hard border and customs posts at the UK and Republic of Ireland border
    Indeed, nor patrol boats on the Foyle at Strabane, which rather makes a mockery of your claim that armed guards would be defending the south bank of the Tweed were Scotland to become
    independent.

    But, we have been here before.
    Only because of the GFA. If there was a United Ireland there would certainly be patrol boats in the Irish Sea
    Why
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325

    The Times reports Johnson will back the deal as he does not want to look 'silly' by siding with 12 or 15 hardliners

    Rare for him to be concerned about looking silly !!!!

    It’s not being popular that is giving him the difficulty.
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    The Times reports Johnson will back the deal as he does not want to look 'silly' by siding with 12 or 15 hardliners

    Rare for him to be concerned about looking silly !!!!

    So. He'll be supporting the repeal of the arrangement he negotiated, signed and trumpeted.
    For fear of looking silly.
    The arrangement he negotiated, signed and trumpeted was a temporary arrangement that got Brexit over the line and was designed to be replaced in the future.

    Now we're at the future and its time to replace it, just as Boris wanted.

    How is that silly?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995

    dixiedean said:

    The Times reports Johnson will back the deal as he does not want to look 'silly' by siding with 12 or 15 hardliners

    Rare for him to be concerned about looking silly !!!!

    So. He'll be supporting the repeal of the arrangement he negotiated, signed and trumpeted.
    For fear of looking silly.
    The arrangement he negotiated, signed and trumpeted was a temporary arrangement that got Brexit over the line and was designed to be replaced in the future.

    Now we're at the future and its time to replace it, just as Boris wanted.

    How is that silly?
    Was anyone at all made aware it was temporary?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,388
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    London voted Remain and has more people than Scotland and also left the EU and single market with the rest of GB, so what? What next? Special Deals for Remain voting Cheltenham, Oxford, Cambridge, Maidenhead and Tunbridge Wells and Godalming too?

    Northern Ireland also has a border with an EU nation and the GFA to uphold, neither scenario applies to Scotland
    Scotland has a border with several EU nations. It's called the North Sea.

    Political discourse has been all about the Irish Sea Border for years - including you most recently, this very day.

    Same logic applies ...
    No Scotland has a border with British waters, as does the rest of GB
    Not true. No such thing as GB waters. Only UK or Scottish, depending on the context (e.g. fisheries or defence|), at least up here (not sure about Isle of Man etc in rUK).
    UK waters then but definitely no border with another EU nation.

    Scotland's only border is with England, a land border within the UK
    Funny then that the Scottish Government administers the waters around Scotland. Looks awfully like borders with the Faroes, Norway, and perhaps Denmark.

    In any case, there are these things called "aeroplanes" which Messrs Wright discovered and which I have travelled on from Edinburgh, at a wee village called Turnhouse, to an "aerodrome" in the United States, and I had to show a passport at both ends, at things called "border controls".

    And why do you keep harping on about the Irish Sea Border, anyway, if sea borders don't exist?
    They are UK waters not Scottish government waters. None of the seas bordering the land of Scotland belongs to any other nation than the UK.

    Yes, you need a passport to travel to any nation outside the British Isles, so what?

    The Irish Sea border had now been eliminated effectively by the new green lanes on goods travelling between GB and NI as part of Sunak’s Deal with the EU this week
    Sorry, but The Crown Estate only covers waters off England, Wales and NI. Crown Estate Scotland is a separate body with custody of Scottish waters.
    The King of Scotland is also King of the UK and King Charles III owns Crown Estate Scotland in right of the Crown. Holyrood doesn't own it
    There isn't a King of Scotland.
    There is, King Charles III is King of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland within the UK.

    Plus the UK government is responsible for all border patrols and national security in UK waters
    The fact that the monarch of the two kingdoms is the same person does not mean that Crown Estate Scotland waters are not Scottish waters.


    He is also king of Canada, thus the ice caps in northern Quebec are presumably also jurisdiction of Westminster?

    Crown land in Canada also belongs to the Crown
    Crown lands in England don't belong to the Crown in the sense that you think it does, and this can be best established by considering the fact that Crown lands in Canada are actually owned by the Provincial governments. And the same is true in England - Crown lands belong to the State, not the person who wears the crown.
    It belongs to the Crown of which the Monarch is head
    It belongs to the Crown as in the country, of which the Monarch is head. It is not the personal property of the Monarch. If we were to become a republic Crown lands would remain belonging with the nation not the house of Windsor since its not personal property and never has been.
    It belongs to the Crown and the government is the King's government.

    We aren't a republic, Crown lands do not belong to the public
    Well, sure, you don't own your house either. You only hold it in fief to the Monarch. Have you done your homage to KCIII for your lands?
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    The Times reports Johnson will back the deal as he does not want to look 'silly' by siding with 12 or 15 hardliners

    Rare for him to be concerned about looking silly !!!!

    So. He'll be supporting the repeal of the arrangement he negotiated, signed and trumpeted.
    For fear of looking silly.
    The arrangement he negotiated, signed and trumpeted was a temporary arrangement that got Brexit over the line and was designed to be replaced in the future.

    Now we're at the future and its time to replace it, just as Boris wanted.

    How is that silly?
    Was anyone at all made aware it was temporary?
    Yes, anyone who read the Protocol. The NI Protocol itself explicitly gave the provisions to amend and replace it.

    Mission accomplished.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,388
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    London voted Remain and has more people than Scotland and also left the EU and single market with the rest of GB, so what? What next? Special Deals for Remain voting Cheltenham, Oxford, Cambridge, Maidenhead and Tunbridge Wells and Godalming too?

    Northern Ireland also has a border with an EU nation and the GFA to uphold, neither scenario applies to Scotland
    Scotland has a border with several EU nations. It's called the North Sea.

    Political discourse has been all about the Irish Sea Border for years - including you most recently, this very day.

    Same logic applies ...
    No Scotland has a border with British waters, as does the rest of GB
    Not true. No such thing as GB waters. Only UK or Scottish, depending on the context (e.g. fisheries or defence|), at least up here (not sure about Isle of Man etc in rUK).
    UK waters then but definitely no border with another EU nation.

    Scotland's only border is with England, a land border within the UK
    Funny then that the Scottish Government administers the waters around Scotland. Looks awfully like borders with the Faroes, Norway, and perhaps Denmark.

    In any case, there are these things called "aeroplanes" which Messrs Wright discovered and which I have travelled on from Edinburgh, at a wee village called Turnhouse, to an "aerodrome" in the United States, and I had to show a passport at both ends, at things called "border controls".

    And why do you keep harping on about the Irish Sea Border, anyway, if sea borders don't exist?
    They are UK waters not Scottish government waters. None of the seas bordering the land of Scotland belongs to any other nation than the UK.

    Yes, you need a passport to travel to any nation outside the British Isles, so what?

    The Irish Sea border had now been eliminated effectively by the new green lanes on goods travelling between GB and NI as part of Sunak’s Deal with the EU this week
    Sorry, but The Crown Estate only covers waters off England, Wales and NI. Crown Estate Scotland is a separate body with custody of Scottish waters.
    The King of Scotland is also King of the UK and King Charles III owns Crown Estate Scotland in right of the Crown. Holyrood doesn't own it
    There isn't a King of Scotland.
    There is, King Charles III is King of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland within the UK.

    Plus the UK government is responsible for all border patrols and national security in UK waters
    The Kingdoms of England and Scotland haven't existed for hundreds of years.

    For someone who claims to be a royalist, you certainly don't know much about the monarchy.
    They do within the United Kingdom, hence the title.

    The title?

    His Majesty Charles the Third, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith

    He's the King of the the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and His other Realms and Territories. No title King of England, since the Kingdom of England was abolished centuries ago.
    The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland and the King is head of state of both
    Bit of a howler of an omission there. "The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland."

    Unless you are stuck in a pre-1800 mindset.

    Did you really study history?
    There is no Kingdom of Northern Ireland only a province within the UK, the Kingdom of Ireland ended in 1948
    "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is where we are at.

    Your definition of the UK only has England and Scotland.

    Not correct.
    Only England and Scotland are Kingdoms within the UK.

    Wales is part of the Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland only a province within the UK
    The whole point of the Act of Union was to unite the separate Kingdoms so that there would only be one Kingdom in the future!
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,676
    Anyway, back to my original point. The Crown Estate and Crown Estate Scotland are two separate bodies. The latter manages Scottish waters, and its income flows to the Scottish government.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,100

    Anyway, back to my original point. The Crown Estate and Crown Estate Scotland are two separate bodies. The latter manages Scottish waters, and its income flows to the Scottish government.

    The Scottish Government however does not own Scottish waters, the UK Crown does and they are patrolled by the UK Royal Navy
  • Options
    I’m sure nobody here would be so credulous…..

    Lots of clever quips that this is a great argument for EU membership. But it isn't really, because NI has very specific arrangements - EU single market with veto & without free movement of people. If offered that to UK sure it would love it, but that ain't membership nor on offer

    https://twitter.com/raoulruparel/status/1630626604421459968
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,914
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    London voted Remain and has more people than Scotland and also left the EU and single market with the rest of GB, so what? What next? Special Deals for Remain voting Cheltenham, Oxford, Cambridge, Maidenhead and Tunbridge Wells and Godalming too?

    Northern Ireland also has a border with an EU nation and the GFA to uphold, neither scenario applies to Scotland
    Scotland has a border with several EU nations. It's called the North Sea.

    Political discourse has been all about the Irish Sea Border for years - including you most recently, this very day.

    Same logic applies ...
    No Scotland has a border with British waters, as does the rest of GB
    Not true. No such thing as GB waters. Only UK or Scottish, depending on the context (e.g. fisheries or defence|), at least up here (not sure about Isle of Man etc in rUK).
    UK waters then but definitely no border with another EU nation.

    Scotland's only border is with England, a land border within the UK
    Funny then that the Scottish Government administers the waters around Scotland. Looks awfully like borders with the Faroes, Norway, and perhaps Denmark.

    In any case, there are these things called "aeroplanes" which Messrs Wright discovered and which I have travelled on from Edinburgh, at a wee village called Turnhouse, to an "aerodrome" in the United States, and I had to show a passport at both ends, at things called "border controls".

    And why do you keep harping on about the Irish Sea Border, anyway, if sea borders don't exist?
    They are UK waters not Scottish government waters. None of the seas bordering the land of Scotland belongs to any other nation than the UK.

    Yes, you need a passport to travel to any nation outside the British Isles, so what?

    The Irish Sea border had now been eliminated effectively by the new green lanes on goods travelling between GB and NI as part of Sunak’s Deal with the EU this week
    Sorry, but The Crown Estate only covers waters off England, Wales and NI. Crown Estate Scotland is a separate body with custody of Scottish waters.
    The King of Scotland is also King of the UK and King Charles III owns Crown Estate Scotland in right of the Crown. Holyrood doesn't own it
    There isn't a King of Scotland.
    There is, King Charles III is King of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland within the UK.

    Plus the UK government is responsible for all border patrols and national security in UK waters
    The fact that the monarch of the two kingdoms is the same person does not mean that Crown Estate Scotland waters are not Scottish waters.
    They are UK waters, patrolled by the Royal Navy and with entry from them to land controlled by the UK border force
    Patrolled by a Scottish Government fleet.

    No there is no Scottish government fleet, only the Royal Navy of the UK
    There is actually. Marine Scotland. They pop into Leith on occasion.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,100

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This “hard border in the North Sea but not in the Irish Sea” has all the hallmarks of the PB Brit Nat classic “hard border on the Tweed but not on the Foyle”.

    There is no hard border between Scotland and England nor between GB and NI after this Deal either.

    The only difference in Ireland is the UK government has not imposed a hard border and customs posts at the UK and Republic of Ireland border
    Indeed, nor patrol boats on the Foyle at Strabane, which rather makes a mockery of your claim that armed guards would be defending the south bank of the Tweed were Scotland to become
    independent.

    But, we have been here before.
    Only because of the GFA. If there was a United Ireland there would certainly be patrol boats in the Irish Sea
    Why
    As all of Ireland (except maybe a DUP led county Antrim which declared UDI) would be in the EU and GB wouldn't be, so to stop smuggling and illegal immigration
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,914
    Big story in the Telegraph. Bad week for Johnson.
  • Options
    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,780
    I’m currently watching Newsnight. The focus is on the cost of living crisis. Food price inflation for the residents of Knowsley, Merseyside, is over 19%. A shocking but very believable statistic.

    Newsnight then gravely report that 96% of Knowsley residents have experienced food price inflation. Go figure.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,047
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm glad this never happened to me when I was running a school trip!

    Walsall pupils stranded after hotel 'shreds 41 passports'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-64791855

    A school skiing trip to *America*? Is this one of those Brexit benefits?
    From memory - the cost of skiing in Europe during the peak week for Brits makes going to the States instead seem plausible.
    The lack of "half term" in February makes that plausible.

    But the US is (generally) extremely expensive to ski in. A day pass at a third tier location like Big Bear is around £100.
  • Options
    Eabhal said:

    Big story in the Telegraph. Bad week for Johnson.

    Not looking good for Hancock either
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,388

    Eabhal said:

    Big story in the Telegraph. Bad week for Johnson.

    Not looking good for Hancock either
    Secretary of State for killing grannies by the looks of things.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,762
    Here’s an article to give Leon a fit of the vapours.
    I can’t really disagree with any of its arguments.

    How to navigate the AI apocalypse as a sane person
    A compendium of AI-safety talking points
    https://erikhoel.substack.com/p/how-to-navigate-the-ai-apocalypse

    .. Here’s from the recent podcast by Eliezer Yudkowsky, who is completely defeated when it comes to progress on the kind of fancy methods of alignment he works on:

    I’ve been doing this for 20 years. . . it became clear we were all going to die. I felt kind of burned out. I’m taking some time to rest. . . When I dive back into the pool, I don’t know. . . [I’ll] try to figure out if I can see anything I can do with the gigantic inscrutable matrices of floating point numbers…
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,047

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    The Times reports Johnson will back the deal as he does not want to look 'silly' by siding with 12 or 15 hardliners

    Rare for him to be concerned about looking silly !!!!

    So. He'll be supporting the repeal of the arrangement he negotiated, signed and trumpeted.
    For fear of looking silly.
    The arrangement he negotiated, signed and trumpeted was a temporary arrangement that got Brexit over the line and was designed to be replaced in the future.

    Now we're at the future and its time to replace it, just as Boris wanted.

    How is that silly?
    Was anyone at all made aware it was temporary?
    Yes, anyone who read the Protocol. The NI Protocol itself explicitly gave the provisions to amend and replace it.

    Mission accomplished.
    This is spot on: the Northern Irish Protocol was only supposed to exist while the permanent future arrangement (which, to be fair. The EU proposed).

    The UK-EU deal ties up most of these issues and largely puts this remaining "sore" to rest.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This “hard border in the North Sea but not in the Irish Sea” has all the hallmarks of the PB Brit Nat classic “hard border on the Tweed but not on the Foyle”.

    There is no hard border between Scotland and England nor between GB and NI after this Deal either.

    The only difference in Ireland is the UK government has not imposed a hard border and customs posts at the UK and Republic of Ireland border
    Indeed, nor patrol boats on the Foyle at Strabane, which rather makes a mockery of your claim that armed guards would be defending the south bank of the Tweed were Scotland to become
    independent.

    But, we have been here before.
    Only because of the GFA. If there was a United Ireland there would certainly be patrol boats in the Irish Sea
    Why
    As all of Ireland (except maybe a DUP led county Antrim which declared UDI) would be in the EU and GB wouldn't be, so to stop smuggling and illegal immigration
    Antrim declares UDI and patrol boats in the Irish Sea is another one of your fantasies
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,100
    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    London voted Remain and has more people than Scotland and also left the EU and single market with the rest of GB, so what? What next? Special Deals for Remain voting Cheltenham, Oxford, Cambridge, Maidenhead and Tunbridge Wells and Godalming too?

    Northern Ireland also has a border with an EU nation and the GFA to uphold, neither scenario applies to Scotland
    Scotland has a border with several EU nations. It's called the North Sea.

    Political discourse has been all about the Irish Sea Border for years - including you most recently, this very day.

    Same logic applies ...
    No Scotland has a border with British waters, as does the rest of GB
    Not true. No such thing as GB waters. Only UK or Scottish, depending on the context (e.g. fisheries or defence|), at least up here (not sure about Isle of Man etc in rUK).
    UK waters then but definitely no border with another EU nation.

    Scotland's only border is with England, a land border within the UK
    Funny then that the Scottish Government administers the waters around Scotland. Looks awfully like borders with the Faroes, Norway, and perhaps Denmark.

    In any case, there are these things called "aeroplanes" which Messrs Wright discovered and which I have travelled on from Edinburgh, at a wee village called Turnhouse, to an "aerodrome" in the United States, and I had to show a passport at both ends, at things called "border controls".

    And why do you keep harping on about the Irish Sea Border, anyway, if sea borders don't exist?
    They are UK waters not Scottish government waters. None of the seas bordering the land of Scotland belongs to any other nation than the UK.

    Yes, you need a passport to travel to any nation outside the British Isles, so what?

    The Irish Sea border had now been eliminated effectively by the new green lanes on goods travelling between GB and NI as part of Sunak’s Deal with the EU this week
    Sorry, but The Crown Estate only covers waters off England, Wales and NI. Crown Estate Scotland is a separate body with custody of Scottish waters.
    The King of Scotland is also King of the UK and King Charles III owns Crown Estate Scotland in right of the Crown. Holyrood doesn't own it
    There isn't a King of Scotland.
    There is, King Charles III is King of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland within the UK.

    Plus the UK government is responsible for all border patrols and national security in UK waters
    The fact that the monarch of the two kingdoms is the same person does not mean that Crown Estate Scotland waters are not Scottish waters.
    They are UK waters, patrolled by the Royal Navy and with entry from them to land controlled by the UK border force
    Patrolled by a Scottish Government fleet.

    No there is no Scottish government fleet, only the Royal Navy of the UK
    There is actually. Marine Scotland. They pop into Leith on occasion.
    They mainly control some fishing rights.

    If 1 of Putin's submarines or destroyers entered the waters around Scotland it would be the Royal Navy sent to meet them, not Marine Scotland
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,100

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This “hard border in the North Sea but not in the Irish Sea” has all the hallmarks of the PB Brit Nat classic “hard border on the Tweed but not on the Foyle”.

    There is no hard border between Scotland and England nor between GB and NI after this Deal either.

    The only difference in Ireland is the UK government has not imposed a hard border and customs posts at the UK and Republic of Ireland border
    Indeed, nor patrol boats on the Foyle at Strabane, which rather makes a mockery of your claim that armed guards would be defending the south bank of the Tweed were Scotland to become
    independent.

    But, we have been here before.
    Only because of the GFA. If there was a United Ireland there would certainly be patrol boats in the Irish Sea
    Why
    As all of Ireland (except maybe a DUP led county Antrim which declared UDI) would be in the EU and GB wouldn't be, so to stop smuggling and illegal immigration
    Antrim declares UDI and patrol boats in the Irish Sea is another one of your fantasies
    No it is reality but only if Northern Ireland left the UK and joined the Republic of Ireland and rejoined the EU while GB stayed outside the EU
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,388
    Interesting news from Ukraine.

    "🇺🇦 Ukraine Weapons Tracker
    @UAWeapons
    #Ukraine: Recently information resurfaced that Serbia sold "3500 Grad rockets" to Ukraine via a third party- we can confirm that 🇷🇸 Grad rockets were indeed delivered to Ukraine.

    More interestingly they are not standard, but ER Grad 2000- with a max range of 40km instead of ~20."

    https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1630679031078084611

    You could have been forgiven for thinking that Russia would be more likely to receive ammunition from Serbia, but apparently some third country has been active on Ukraine's behalf in buying up supplies from all sorts of places, and those places now include Serbia.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,376
    edited February 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This “hard border in the North Sea but not in the Irish Sea” has all the hallmarks of the PB Brit Nat classic “hard border on the Tweed but not on the Foyle”.

    There is no hard border between Scotland and England nor between GB and NI after this Deal either.

    The only difference in Ireland is the UK government has not imposed a hard border and customs posts at the UK and Republic of Ireland border
    Indeed, nor patrol boats on the Foyle at Strabane, which rather makes a mockery of your claim that armed guards would be defending the south bank of the Tweed were Scotland to become
    independent.

    But, we have been here before.
    Only because of the GFA. If there was a United Ireland there would certainly be patrol boats in the Irish Sea
    Why
    As all of Ireland (except maybe a DUP led county Antrim which declared UDI) would be in the EU and GB wouldn't be, so to stop smuggling and illegal immigration
    Antrim declares UDI and patrol boats in the Irish Sea is another one of your fantasies
    It's actually Ards & North Down (part of the old County Down) that is the least Catholic of the eleven local authorities in NI. Here is preliminary 2021 data:

    Protestant & other denoms. 68%
    Roman Catholic 14%
    Other faiths 1%
    None 17%
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    edited February 2023

    I’m sure nobody here would be so credulous…..

    Lots of clever quips that this is a great argument for EU membership. But it isn't really, because NI has very specific arrangements - EU single market with veto & without free movement of people. If offered that to UK sure it would love it, but that ain't membership nor on offer

    https://twitter.com/raoulruparel/status/1630626604421459968

    The same fantastic arrangements we ALL had before Rishi and his thicko's decided the rest of the UK should leave the EU and exclude ourselves from this wonderful arrangement.

    We should all be counting down the days till we can get rid of this horrendous Brexit government once and for all
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,388
    Roger said:

    I’m sure nobody here would be so credulous…..

    Lots of clever quips that this is a great argument for EU membership. But it isn't really, because NI has very specific arrangements - EU single market with veto & without free movement of people. If offered that to UK sure it would love it, but that ain't membership nor on offer

    https://twitter.com/raoulruparel/status/1630626604421459968

    The same fantastic arrangements we ALL had before Rishi and his thicko's decided the rest of the UK should leave the EU and exclude ourselves from this wonderful arrangement.

    We should all be counting down the days till we can get rid of this horrendous Brexit government once and for all
    There's a website that can help with that.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,100
    edited February 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This “hard border in the North Sea but not in the Irish Sea” has all the hallmarks of the PB Brit Nat classic “hard border on the Tweed but not on the Foyle”.

    There is no hard border between Scotland and England nor between GB and NI after this Deal either.

    The only difference in Ireland is the UK government has not imposed a hard border and customs posts at the UK and Republic of Ireland border
    Indeed, nor patrol boats on the Foyle at Strabane, which rather makes a mockery of your claim that armed guards would be defending the south bank of the Tweed were Scotland to become
    independent.

    But, we have been here before.
    Only because of the GFA. If there was a United Ireland there would certainly be patrol boats in the Irish Sea
    Why
    As all of Ireland (except maybe a DUP led county Antrim which declared UDI) would be in the EU and GB wouldn't be, so to stop smuggling and illegal immigration
    Antrim declares UDI and patrol boats in the Irish Sea is another one of your fantasies
    It's actually Ards & North Down (part of the old County Down) that is the least Catholic of the eleven local authorities in NI. Here is preliminary 2021 data:

    Protestant & other denoms. 68%
    Roman Catholic 14%
    Other faiths 1%
    None 17%
    North Down voted Remain however and has an Alliance MP.

    Every constituency in Antrim however voted Leave and has a DUP MP.

    Antrim is the only county in Northern Ireland where SF does not have an MP.

    In this scenario Belfast is not included in county Antrim, Antrim Town would instead be the DUP capital
  • Options
    One of the best political adverts in recent memory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2bmyspD4s

    Bring this style back please Labour
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,947
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    London voted Remain and has more people than Scotland and also left the EU and single market with the rest of GB, so what? What next? Special Deals for Remain voting Cheltenham, Oxford, Cambridge, Maidenhead and Tunbridge Wells and Godalming too?

    Northern Ireland also has a border with an EU nation and the GFA to uphold, neither scenario applies to Scotland
    Scotland has a border with several EU nations. It's called the North Sea.

    Political discourse has been all about the Irish Sea Border for years - including you most recently, this very day.

    Same logic applies ...
    No Scotland has a border with British waters, as does the rest of GB
    Not true. No such thing as GB waters. Only UK or Scottish, depending on the context (e.g. fisheries or defence|), at least up here (not sure about Isle of Man etc in rUK).
    UK waters then but definitely no border with another EU nation.

    Scotland's only border is with England, a land border within the UK
    Funny then that the Scottish Government administers the waters around Scotland. Looks awfully like borders with the Faroes, Norway, and perhaps Denmark.

    In any case, there are these things called "aeroplanes" which Messrs Wright discovered and which I have travelled on from Edinburgh, at a wee village called Turnhouse, to an "aerodrome" in the United States, and I had to show a passport at both ends, at things called "border controls".

    And why do you keep harping on about the Irish Sea Border, anyway, if sea borders don't exist?
    They are UK waters not Scottish government waters. None of the seas bordering the land of Scotland belongs to any other nation than the UK.

    Yes, you need a passport to travel to any nation outside the British Isles, so what?

    The Irish Sea border had now been eliminated effectively by the new green lanes on goods travelling between GB and NI as part of Sunak’s Deal with the EU this week
    Sorry, but The Crown Estate only covers waters off England, Wales and NI. Crown Estate Scotland is a separate body with custody of Scottish waters.
    The King of Scotland is also King of the UK and King Charles III owns Crown Estate Scotland in right of the Crown. Holyrood doesn't own it
    There isn't a King of Scotland.
    There is, King Charles III is King of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland within the UK.

    Plus the UK government is responsible for all border patrols and national security in UK waters
    The Kingdoms of England and Scotland haven't existed for hundreds of years.

    For someone who claims to be a royalist, you certainly don't know much about the monarchy.
    They do within the United Kingdom, hence the title.

    The title?

    His Majesty Charles the Third, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith

    He's the King of the the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and His other Realms and Territories. No title King of England, since the Kingdom of England was abolished centuries ago.
    The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland and the King is head of state of both
    Bit of a howler of an omission there. "The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland."

    Unless you are stuck in a pre-1800 mindset.

    Did you really study history?
    There is no Kingdom of Northern Ireland only a province within the UK, the Kingdom of Ireland ended in 1948
    "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is where we are at.

    Your definition of the UK only has England and Scotland.

    Not correct.
    Only England and Scotland are Kingdoms within the UK.

    Wales is part of the Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland only a province within the UK
    Wales is part of England? Huge if true.
    He's just having fun. He'll say it's shown by the legal system.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,775
    edited February 2023
    Roger said:

    I’m sure nobody here would be so credulous…..

    Lots of clever quips that this is a great argument for EU membership. But it isn't really, because NI has very specific arrangements - EU single market with veto & without free movement of people. If offered that to UK sure it would love it, but that ain't membership nor on offer

    https://twitter.com/raoulruparel/status/1630626604421459968

    The same fantastic arrangements we ALL had before Rishi and his thicko's decided the rest of the UK should leave the EU and exclude ourselves from this wonderful arrangement.

    We should all be counting down the days till we can get rid of this horrendous Brexit government once and for all
    We all had "EU single market with veto & without free movement of people"?

    Are you sure? 🤔
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,100
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    London voted Remain and has more people than Scotland and also left the EU and single market with the rest of GB, so what? What next? Special Deals for Remain voting Cheltenham, Oxford, Cambridge, Maidenhead and Tunbridge Wells and Godalming too?

    Northern Ireland also has a border with an EU nation and the GFA to uphold, neither scenario applies to Scotland
    Scotland has a border with several EU nations. It's called the North Sea.

    Political discourse has been all about the Irish Sea Border for years - including you most recently, this very day.

    Same logic applies ...
    No Scotland has a border with British waters, as does the rest of GB
    Not true. No such thing as GB waters. Only UK or Scottish, depending on the context (e.g. fisheries or defence|), at least up here (not sure about Isle of Man etc in rUK).
    UK waters then but definitely no border with another EU nation.

    Scotland's only border is with England, a land border within the UK
    Funny then that the Scottish Government administers the waters around Scotland. Looks awfully like borders with the Faroes, Norway, and perhaps Denmark.

    In any case, there are these things called "aeroplanes" which Messrs Wright discovered and which I have travelled on from Edinburgh, at a wee village called Turnhouse, to an "aerodrome" in the United States, and I had to show a passport at both ends, at things called "border controls".

    And why do you keep harping on about the Irish Sea Border, anyway, if sea borders don't exist?
    They are UK waters not Scottish government waters. None of the seas bordering the land of Scotland belongs to any other nation than the UK.

    Yes, you need a passport to travel to any nation outside the British Isles, so what?

    The Irish Sea border had now been eliminated effectively by the new green lanes on goods travelling between GB and NI as part of Sunak’s Deal with the EU this week
    Sorry, but The Crown Estate only covers waters off England, Wales and NI. Crown Estate Scotland is a separate body with custody of Scottish waters.
    The King of Scotland is also King of the UK and King Charles III owns Crown Estate Scotland in right of the Crown. Holyrood doesn't own it
    There isn't a King of Scotland.
    There is, King Charles III is King of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland within the UK.

    Plus the UK government is responsible for all border patrols and national security in UK waters
    The Kingdoms of England and Scotland haven't existed for hundreds of years.

    For someone who claims to be a royalist, you certainly don't know much about the monarchy.
    They do within the United Kingdom, hence the title.

    The title?

    His Majesty Charles the Third, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith

    He's the King of the the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and His other Realms and Territories. No title King of England, since the Kingdom of England was abolished centuries ago.
    The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland and the King is head of state of both
    Bit of a howler of an omission there. "The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland."

    Unless you are stuck in a pre-1800 mindset.

    Did you really study history?
    There is no Kingdom of Northern Ireland only a province within the UK, the Kingdom of Ireland ended in 1948
    "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is where we are at.

    Your definition of the UK only has England and Scotland.

    Not correct.
    Only England and Scotland are Kingdoms within the UK.

    Wales is part of the Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland only a province within the UK
    Wales is part of England? Huge if true.
    He's just having fun. He'll say it's shown by the legal system.
    Wales was a principality of the Kingdom of England even before the Acts of Union
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    This has done nothing but remind voters -old ones with short memories-what a succession of knobs we've had running this country.

    We've blackballed ourselves from the best trading group in the world and the number one wally is now dancing round the table because he's managed to gain a reprieve for a quarter of a million non UK voters who no one gives a shit about anyway.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,947
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    London voted Remain and has more people than Scotland and also left the EU and single market with the rest of GB, so what? What next? Special Deals for Remain voting Cheltenham, Oxford, Cambridge, Maidenhead and Tunbridge Wells and Godalming too?

    Northern Ireland also has a border with an EU nation and the GFA to uphold, neither scenario applies to Scotland
    Scotland has a border with several EU nations. It's called the North Sea.

    Political discourse has been all about the Irish Sea Border for years - including you most recently, this very day.

    Same logic applies ...
    No Scotland has a border with British waters, as does the rest of GB
    Not true. No such thing as GB waters. Only UK or Scottish, depending on the context (e.g. fisheries or defence|), at least up here (not sure about Isle of Man etc in rUK).
    UK waters then but definitely no border with another EU nation.

    Scotland's only border is with England, a land border within the UK
    Funny then that the Scottish Government administers the waters around Scotland. Looks awfully like borders with the Faroes, Norway, and perhaps Denmark.

    In any case, there are these things called "aeroplanes" which Messrs Wright discovered and which I have travelled on from Edinburgh, at a wee village called Turnhouse, to an "aerodrome" in the United States, and I had to show a passport at both ends, at things called "border controls".

    And why do you keep harping on about the Irish Sea Border, anyway, if sea borders don't exist?
    They are UK waters not Scottish government waters. None of the seas bordering the land of Scotland belongs to any other nation than the UK.

    Yes, you need a passport to travel to any nation outside the British Isles, so what?

    The Irish Sea border had now been eliminated effectively by the new green lanes on goods travelling between GB and NI as part of Sunak’s Deal with the EU this week
    Sorry, but The Crown Estate only covers waters off England, Wales and NI. Crown Estate Scotland is a separate body with custody of Scottish waters.
    The King of Scotland is also King of the UK and King Charles III owns Crown Estate Scotland in right of the Crown. Holyrood doesn't own it
    There isn't a King of Scotland.
    There is, King Charles III is King of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland within the UK.

    Plus the UK government is responsible for all border patrols and national security in UK waters
    The Kingdoms of England and Scotland haven't existed for hundreds of years.

    For someone who claims to be a royalist, you certainly don't know much about the monarchy.
    They do within the United Kingdom, hence the title.

    The title?

    His Majesty Charles the Third, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith

    He's the King of the the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and His other Realms and Territories. No title King of England, since the Kingdom of England was abolished centuries ago.
    The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland and the King is head of state of both
    Bit of a howler of an omission there. "The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland."

    Unless you are stuck in a pre-1800 mindset.

    Did you really study history?
    There is no Kingdom of Northern Ireland only a province within the UK, the Kingdom of Ireland ended in 1948
    "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is where we are at.

    Your definition of the UK only has England and Scotland.

    Not correct.
    Only England and Scotland are Kingdoms within the UK.

    Wales is part of the Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland only a province within the UK
    Wales is part of England? Huge if true.
    He's just having fun. He'll say it's shown by the legal system.
    Wales was a principality of the Kingdom of England even before the Acts of Union
    You don't say? And of course that means it still is. And that the creation of the UK had no effect on there being a Kingdom of England. It's genius.
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    Roger said:

    This has done nothing but remind voters -old ones with short memories-what a succession of knobs we've had running this country.

    We've blackballed ourselves from the best trading group in the world and the number one wally is now dancing round the table because he's managed to gain a reprieve for a quarter of a million non UK voters who no one gives a shit about anyway.

    Your problem is that Sunak and Starmer are on the same page and whilst drawing closer we are not rejoining the EU - that ship has sailed
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,970
    Roger said:

    I’m sure nobody here would be so credulous…..

    Lots of clever quips that this is a great argument for EU membership. But it isn't really, because NI has very specific arrangements - EU single market with veto & without free movement of people. If offered that to UK sure it would love it, but that ain't membership nor on offer

    https://twitter.com/raoulruparel/status/1630626604421459968

    The same fantastic arrangements we ALL had before Rishi and his thicko's decided the rest of the UK should leave the EU and exclude ourselves from this wonderful arrangement.

    We should all be counting down the days till we can get rid of this horrendous Brexit government once and for all
    Except we didn't have that at all. You continue to be utterly deluded.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,478

    One of the best political adverts in recent memory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2bmyspD4s

    Bring this style back please Labour

    More Doctor Who, you mean?

    I don't like the close-up on Sean Pertwee's head while he walks, nor his delivery where a pause makes it sound like the Conservatives are opposed to damaging the economy.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,825
    I still tend to think the most likely outcome of the next election is a Lab/LD coalition.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,965

    Roger said:

    I’m sure nobody here would be so credulous…..

    Lots of clever quips that this is a great argument for EU membership. But it isn't really, because NI has very specific arrangements - EU single market with veto & without free movement of people. If offered that to UK sure it would love it, but that ain't membership nor on offer

    https://twitter.com/raoulruparel/status/1630626604421459968

    The same fantastic arrangements we ALL had before Rishi and his thicko's decided the rest of the UK should leave the EU and exclude ourselves from this wonderful arrangement.

    We should all be counting down the days till we can get rid of this horrendous Brexit government once and for all
    We all had "EU single market with veto & without free movement of people"?

    Are you sure? 🤔
    Technically true. Freedom of movement is/was about... labour, not people.
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    WillGWillG Posts: 2,111
    Pulpstar said:

    Roger said:

    I’m sure nobody here would be so credulous…..

    Lots of clever quips that this is a great argument for EU membership. But it isn't really, because NI has very specific arrangements - EU single market with veto & without free movement of people. If offered that to UK sure it would love it, but that ain't membership nor on offer

    https://twitter.com/raoulruparel/status/1630626604421459968

    The same fantastic arrangements we ALL had before Rishi and his thicko's decided the rest of the UK should leave the EU and exclude ourselves from this wonderful arrangement.

    We should all be counting down the days till we can get rid of this horrendous Brexit government once and for all
    We all had "EU single market with veto & without free movement of people"?

    Are you sure? 🤔
    Technically true. Freedom of movement is/was about... labour, not people.
    That's semantic garbage. Anyone from the EU could turn up and get into the country, whether or not they had a job waiting.
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    WillGWillG Posts: 2,111

    I’m sure nobody here would be so credulous…..

    Lots of clever quips that this is a great argument for EU membership. But it isn't really, because NI has very specific arrangements - EU single market with veto & without free movement of people. If offered that to UK sure it would love it, but that ain't membership nor on offer

    https://twitter.com/raoulruparel/status/1630626604421459968

    It also means Northern Ireland is outside the customs union and can benefit from locally signed FTAs.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,965
    WillG said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Roger said:

    I’m sure nobody here would be so credulous…..

    Lots of clever quips that this is a great argument for EU membership. But it isn't really, because NI has very specific arrangements - EU single market with veto & without free movement of people. If offered that to UK sure it would love it, but that ain't membership nor on offer

    https://twitter.com/raoulruparel/status/1630626604421459968

    The same fantastic arrangements we ALL had before Rishi and his thicko's decided the rest of the UK should leave the EU and exclude ourselves from this wonderful arrangement.

    We should all be counting down the days till we can get rid of this horrendous Brexit government once and for all
    We all had "EU single market with veto & without free movement of people"?

    Are you sure? 🤔
    Technically true. Freedom of movement is/was about... labour, not people.
    That's semantic garbage. Anyone from the EU could turn up and get into the country, whether or not they had a job waiting.
    Well the UK Gov't (Particularly Labour 97-10) couldn't wait to gold plate everything EU and also not apply the various checks and blances we could have had but that was our decision not the EU's.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    London voted Remain and has more people than Scotland and also left the EU and single market with the rest of GB, so what? What next? Special Deals for Remain voting Cheltenham, Oxford, Cambridge, Maidenhead and Tunbridge Wells and Godalming too?

    Northern Ireland also has a border with an EU nation and the GFA to uphold, neither scenario applies to Scotland
    Scotland has a border with several EU nations. It's called the North Sea.

    Political discourse has been all about the Irish Sea Border for years - including you most recently, this very day.

    Same logic applies ...
    No Scotland has a border with British waters, as does the rest of GB
    Not true. No such thing as GB waters. Only UK or Scottish, depending on the context (e.g. fisheries or defence|), at least up here (not sure about Isle of Man etc in rUK).
    UK waters then but definitely no border with another EU nation.

    Scotland's only border is with England, a land border within the UK
    Funny then that the Scottish Government administers the waters around Scotland. Looks awfully like borders with the Faroes, Norway, and perhaps Denmark.

    In any case, there are these things called "aeroplanes" which Messrs Wright discovered and which I have travelled on from Edinburgh, at a wee village called Turnhouse, to an "aerodrome" in the United States, and I had to show a passport at both ends, at things called "border controls".

    And why do you keep harping on about the Irish Sea Border, anyway, if sea borders don't exist?
    They are UK waters not Scottish government waters. None of the seas bordering the land of Scotland belongs to any other nation than the UK.

    Yes, you need a passport to travel to any nation outside the British Isles, so what?

    The Irish Sea border had now been eliminated effectively by the new green lanes on goods travelling between GB and NI as part of Sunak’s Deal with the EU this week
    Sorry, but The Crown Estate only covers waters off England, Wales and NI. Crown Estate Scotland is a separate body with custody of Scottish waters.
    The King of Scotland is also King of the UK and King Charles III owns Crown Estate Scotland in right of the Crown. Holyrood doesn't own it
    There isn't a King of Scotland.
    There is, King Charles III is King of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland within the UK.

    Plus the UK government is responsible for all border patrols and national security in UK waters
    The Kingdoms of England and Scotland haven't existed for hundreds of years.

    For someone who claims to be a royalist, you certainly don't know much about the monarchy.
    They do within the United Kingdom, hence the title.

    The title?

    His Majesty Charles the Third, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith

    He's the King of the the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and His other Realms and Territories. No title King of England, since the Kingdom of England was abolished centuries ago.
    The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland and the King is head of state of both
    Bit of a howler of an omission there. "The United Kingdom only exists as it unites the Kingdoms of England and the Kingdoms of Scotland."

    Unless you are stuck in a pre-1800 mindset.

    Did you really study history?
    There is no Kingdom of Northern Ireland only a province within the UK, the Kingdom of Ireland ended in 1948
    "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is where we are at.

    Your definition of the UK only has England and Scotland.

    Not correct.
    Only England and Scotland are Kingdoms within the UK.

    Wales is part of the Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland only a province within the UK
    Wales is part of England? Huge if true.
    How Wales-England gaffe sparked trip for Canadian TikToker
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64680104
This discussion has been closed.