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The “deal” getting a good response so far – politicalbetting.com

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  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    kle4 said:

    He's talking sense again

    Triumph for Rishi Sunak. Narrative changer. Will be seen as a potential political game changer. For about a week. Then normal service will be resumed. But credit where it’s due. He’s delivered a serious deal. And totally outflanked Boris*.

    * (For now)


    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1630281015716458499?cxt=HHwWhsC9ncf89Z8tAAAA

    That's pretty much my take.

    It won't win him the GE, but Sunak has seen off Boris for good now and for that we can all be grateful.
    Problem for Sunak is his deal is very important because it avoids bad outcomes. There is no narrative in that.
  • Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Have been absent. Intriguing rumours on here I see about H&M, not seen a sausage about it elsewhere.

    Speaking of not hearing a sausage elsewhere, what was the outcome of the Finland rumour? We’re two British PMs and a monarch on now. Surely it’s safe to give a hint

    FWIW this was in the Daily Record:

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/prince-harry-feels-stuck-meghan-29312569?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

    I am not convinced myself, and it is far from a split, just Harry getting a bit homesick.
    What a sad tale.
    I found "Spare" really interesting. Not so much the bits that were spread about, but rather the whole structure of the Royal Family and how it all works. Very strict on archaic protocol (indeed one of Harry's grievances is that he wasn't given due respect) but a pretty casual response to Harry's decades of smoking spliffs. He is pretty free about confessing this, and I think it does explain some of his paranoia.

    A fascinating book, but not always in the way intended.

    I think though that Harry will stick to Meghan and vice versa. They need each other.
    Do you have a "Spare" copy?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    The DUP are a bunch of prize knobends. What purpose do they serve beyond perennially agitating for endless dispute and disruption? Let the Alliance self-designate as Unionist for constitution convenience and Michelle O'Neill can lead NI as FM without the moronic Orange Brigade. Naomi Long as DFM.

    No, the UUP could do that if they back the Deal, not the Alliance
    If the DUP refuse to take part in governing their own province, nominate the next biggest party. Find a way! Change the law if necessary.
    So abolish the Good Friday Agreement. 🤔

    From what I've heard of the deal, I like it. It seems sensible. It seems like what I was saying we should do for years but people kept saying was an impossible unicorn.

    But as far as the Good Friday Agreement goes, it isn't up to you and me who runs the province, its upto the two elected parties representing the cross community. Either a deal is reached satisfying them, or there's no deal as far as Stormont is concerned. Unless you repeal and abolish the Good Friday Agreement.
    I don't think the Good Friday Agreement refers to "the two elected parties representing the cross community".



    The reference is to "unionist and nationalist designations". It doesn't mention the DUP or largest party. I think there is scope for sidelining the DUP.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1034123/The_Belfast_Agreement_An_Agreement_Reached_at_the_Multi-Party_Talks_on_Northern_Ireland.pdf



    alex_ said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    The DUP are a bunch of prize knobends. What purpose do they serve beyond perennially agitating for endless dispute and disruption? Let the Alliance self-designate as Unionist for constitution convenience and Michelle O'Neill can lead NI as FM without the moronic Orange Brigade. Naomi Long as DFM.

    No, the UUP could do that if they back the Deal, not the Alliance
    If the DUP refuse to take part in governing their own province, nominate the next biggest party. Find a way! Change the law if necessary.
    So abolish the Good Friday Agreement. 🤔

    From what I've heard of the deal, I like it. It seems sensible. It seems like what I was saying we should do for years but people kept saying was an impossible unicorn.

    But as far as the Good Friday Agreement goes, it isn't up to you and me who runs the province, its upto the two elected parties representing the cross community. Either a deal is reached satisfying them, or there's no deal as far as Stormont is concerned. Unless you repeal and abolish the Good Friday Agreement.
    I don't think the Good Friday Agreement refers to "the two elected parties representing the cross community".



    The reference is to "unionist and nationalist designations". It doesn't mention the DUP or largest party. I think there is scope for sidelining the DUP.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1034123/The_Belfast_Agreement_An_Agreement





    _Reached_at_the_Multi-Party_Talks_on_Northern_Ireland.pdf








    That's what all these suggestions about the Alliance Party redesignating as Unionist are all about.
    Indeed.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Root doesn't have any of your doubts, you faint-hearted jessies.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    pm215 said:

    alex_ said:

    That's what all these suggestions about the Alliance Party redesignating as Unionist are all about.

    Is that actually even slightly likely, or is it more like the suggestions that Sinn Fein might have taken their Westminster seats to vote in some Brexit vote or other -- theoretically possible but in practice a pigs-flying event ?
    The Alliance have form on designating as unionist for constitutional convenience…
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    England still strong favourites on Betfair.

    Suprising?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    pm215 said:

    alex_ said:

    That's what all these suggestions about the Alliance Party redesignating as Unionist are all about.

    Is that actually even slightly likely, or is it more like the suggestions that Sinn Fein might have taken their Westminster seats to vote in some Brexit vote or other -- theoretically possible but in practice a pigs-flying event ?
    The Alliance have form on designating as unionist for constitutional convenience…
    They did it once, but have subsequently said they won't do it again.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    I hope Root isn’t trying too hard to make up for running out Brook.
    Right tactics for the spinner, though.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    .
    Nigelb said:

    I hope Root isn’t trying too hard to make up for running out Brook.
    Right tactics for the spinner, though.

    With luck it will drive him on to getting all the runs himself so the runout can be a giggle in the post match interview
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567

    This day/deal gets better and better.

    Sunak committing unambiguously to the ECHR is entailed in today's 'choose cooperation after Brexit' strategy.

    If left the ECHR, he has no UK-EU relationship, and would deeply damage any working relationship with Macron or Biden

    This has implications for his immigration policy


    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1630304053220503559

    Fantastic news.
    Hopefully Braverman will now do one.
    It seems Sunak anticipates greater cooperation with Macron and the EU over the boat issue as a result of the new friendlier relationship

    Confirmation of membership of ECHR seems a sensible part of this rapprochement
    He seems to learn fast.
    Sunak and Hunt are clearly aware that resolution of the NIP is essential and no doubt sees an opportunity to grow closer to the EU which I expect is broadly welcomed by most
    Not "closer" to the EU. But a more pragmatic, workable relationship - now it is shorn of the "punishment beating" mentality in Brussels.
    What a ludicrous post. Punishment beatings for goodness sake.
    What ludicrous naivete to think that wasn't an attitude abroad in Brussels for our temerity to leave.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    dixiedean - Hope you recover soon -- and completely.

    Dr. Foxy and dixiedean - This Washington Post article describes still another "long COVID" syndrome: "postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, a disorder of the autonomic nervous system that causes rapid heart rate, fainting and dizziness."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/02/27/pots-heart-fainting-long-covid/

    I don't recall who first said here that it seemed as if COVID was actively countering every advance we made -- but it sure seems as if that is true, at times.

    (In the US, Catholics that choose which items in their church's teachings to follow, and which not, are often called "cafeteria Catholics". (Nancy Pelosi is the most prominent example that comes to mind, though I assume she would reject that description.)

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    This day/deal gets better and better.

    Sunak committing unambiguously to the ECHR is entailed in today's 'choose cooperation after Brexit' strategy.

    If left the ECHR, he has no UK-EU relationship, and would deeply damage any working relationship with Macron or Biden

    This has implications for his immigration policy


    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1630304053220503559

    Fantastic news.
    Hopefully Braverman will now do one.
    It seems Sunak anticipates greater cooperation with Macron and the EU over the boat issue as a result of the new friendlier relationship

    Confirmation of membership of ECHR seems a sensible part of this rapprochement
    He seems to learn fast.
    Sunak and Hunt are clearly aware that resolution of the NIP is essential and no doubt sees an opportunity to grow closer to the EU which I expect is broadly welcomed by most
    Not "closer" to the EU. But a more pragmatic, workable relationship - now it is shorn of the "punishment beating" mentality in Brussels.
    What a ludicrous post. Punishment beatings for goodness sake.
    What ludicrous naivete to think that wasn't an attitude abroad in Brussels for our temerity to leave.
    Wait till you read what UK ministers, tabloids and grassroots nutters said about the EU.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Absolutely extraordinary interview with Steve Baker on Newsnight. He was choking back tears, wobbly lips, the lot. Then said he was stupid at ever accepting the Brexit hard man frame, and that his beard etc are the result of seven years of hell leading rebellions.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    pm215 said:

    alex_ said:

    That's what all these suggestions about the Alliance Party redesignating as Unionist are all about.

    Is that actually even slightly likely, or is it more like the suggestions that Sinn Fein might have taken their Westminster seats to vote in some Brexit vote or other -- theoretically possible but in practice a pigs-flying event ?
    The Alliance have form on designating as unionist for constitutional convenience…
    They did it once, but have subsequently said they won't do it again.
    So they have said. They should reconsider. The DUP appear to have no interest in governing.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Streaky edgy four brings deficit to below 150.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited February 2023

    dixiedean - Hope you recover soon -- and completely.

    Dr. Foxy and dixiedean - This Washington Post article describes still another "long COVID" syndrome: "postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, a disorder of the autonomic nervous system that causes rapid heart rate, fainting and dizziness."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/02/27/pots-heart-fainting-long-covid/

    I don't recall who first said here that it seemed as if COVID was actively countering every advance we made -- but it sure seems as if that is true, at times.

    (In the US, Catholics that choose which items in their church's teachings to follow, and which not, are often called "cafeteria Catholics". (Nancy Pelosi is the most prominent example that comes to mind, though I assume she would reject that description.)

    Cheers.
    That's about all I can come up with. Brain fog. But the sentiment is there
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    The NZ commentators grate a bit on BT Sport. Cock-eyed.
  • nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    In early January 1994, the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) released a document calling for repartition combined with ethnic cleansing or even genocide, with the goal of making Northern Ireland wholly Protestant.[18] The plan was to be implemented should the British Army withdraw from Northern Ireland. The vastly Irish Catholic and nationalist areas would be handed over to the Republic, and those left stranded in the "Protestant state" would be "expelled, nullified, or interned".[18] The story was printed in the Sunday Independent newspaper on 16 January.[19] The "doomsday plan" was based on the work of Liam Kennedy, though he had not proposed expulsion.[18] Sammy Wilson, then press officer for the Democratic Unionist Party and later the MP for East Antrim, spoke positively of the document, calling it a "valuable return to reality" and lauded the UDA for "contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity".[18]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repartition_of_Ireland
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,938
    edited February 2023
    Nigelb said:

    And tonight… for my final Westminster Hour as a BBC staffer, look who dropped in to talk to me and my marvellous Editor Libby Jukes. Hear Sir John Major’s thoughts on Northern Ireland and politics in general at 10pm
    https://twitter.com/BBCcarolynquinn/status/1629924522903085056

    Major calls both Sunak and Starmer 'honest and reliable' which he says makes a refreshing change from recent years and particularly welcomes Sunak's focus on policy not publicity despite disagreement on Brexit
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    In early January 1994, the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) released a document calling for repartition combined with ethnic cleansing or even genocide, with the goal of making Northern Ireland wholly Protestant.[18] The plan was to be implemented should the British Army withdraw from Northern Ireland. The vastly Irish Catholic and nationalist areas would be handed over to the Republic, and those left stranded in the "Protestant state" would be "expelled, nullified, or interned".[18] The story was printed in the Sunday Independent newspaper on 16 January.[19] The "doomsday plan" was based on the work of Liam Kennedy, though he had not proposed expulsion.[18] Sammy Wilson, then press officer for the Democratic Unionist Party and later the MP for East Antrim, spoke positively of the document, calling it a "valuable return to reality" and lauded the UDA for "contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity".[18]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repartition_of_Ireland
    Omg that’s shocking . He really is an absolutely loathsome individual .
  • nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    In early January 1994, the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) released a document calling for repartition combined with ethnic cleansing or even genocide, with the goal of making Northern Ireland wholly Protestant.[18] The plan was to be implemented should the British Army withdraw from Northern Ireland. The vastly Irish Catholic and nationalist areas would be handed over to the Republic, and those left stranded in the "Protestant state" would be "expelled, nullified, or interned".[18] The story was printed in the Sunday Independent newspaper on 16 January.[19] The "doomsday plan" was based on the work of Liam Kennedy, though he had not proposed expulsion.[18] Sammy Wilson, then press officer for the Democratic Unionist Party and later the MP for East Antrim, spoke positively of the document, calling it a "valuable return to reality" and lauded the UDA for "contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity".[18]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repartition_of_Ireland
    HYUFD is Sammy Wilson and I claim £5.
    Sue, HYUFD.

    Plenty of witnesses.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean - Hope you recover soon -- and completely.

    Dr. Foxy and dixiedean - This Washington Post article describes still another "long COVID" syndrome: "postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, a disorder of the autonomic nervous system that causes rapid heart rate, fainting and dizziness."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/02/27/pots-heart-fainting-long-covid/

    I don't recall who first said here that it seemed as if COVID was actively countering every advance we made -- but it sure seems as if that is true, at times.

    (In the US, Catholics that choose which items in their church's teachings to follow, and which not, are often called "cafeteria Catholics". (Nancy Pelosi is the most prominent example that comes to mind, though I assume she would reject that description.)

    Cheers.
    That's about all I can come up with. Brain fog. But the sentiment is there
    Guy I know who was bright as a button (late 40s) was hit with covid, and now says when he gets the bottom of a page while reading a book realises he's kinda forgotten what the page was about so has to start over.

    I do hope it clears up for him - and you, and everyone. Selfishly, for my own sake - but also that of the health services around the world.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,938
    edited February 2023

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    In early January 1994, the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) released a document calling for repartition combined with ethnic cleansing or even genocide, with the goal of making Northern Ireland wholly Protestant.[18] The plan was to be implemented should the British Army withdraw from Northern Ireland. The vastly Irish Catholic and nationalist areas would be handed over to the Republic, and those left stranded in the "Protestant state" would be "expelled, nullified, or interned".[18] The story was printed in the Sunday Independent newspaper on 16 January.[19] The "doomsday plan" was based on the work of Liam Kennedy, though he had not proposed expulsion.[18] Sammy Wilson, then press officer for the Democratic Unionist Party and later the MP for East Antrim, spoke positively of the document, calling it a "valuable return to reality" and lauded the UDA for "contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity".[18]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repartition_of_Ireland
    As I posted earlier

    'Yet only 55% of Northern Irish Catholics want a United Ireland while 79% of Northern Irish Protestants want to stay in the UK
    https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2022/12/03/poll-less-enthusiasm-for-unity-among-catholics-in-north-than-among-republics-respondents/'
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    dixiedean - Hope you recover soon -- and completely.

    Dr. Foxy and dixiedean - This Washington Post article describes still another "long COVID" syndrome: "postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, a disorder of the autonomic nervous system that causes rapid heart rate, fainting and dizziness."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/02/27/pots-heart-fainting-long-covid/

    I don't recall who first said here that it seemed as if COVID was actively countering every advance we made -- but it sure seems as if that is true, at times.

    (In the US, Catholics that choose which items in their church's teachings to follow, and which not, are often called "cafeteria Catholics". (Nancy Pelosi is the most prominent example that comes to mind, though I assume she would reject that description.)

    Christians who choose which items in their religions teachings to follow, and which not, are called Christians.

    There are so many contradictions within the Bible its impossible for anyone to follow all of it, so people cherrypick which teachings to follow and which not. Typically, by pure coincidence of course, being the teachings they want to take


    anyway and the not the ones that would be inconvenient.
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    In early January 1994, the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) released a document calling for repartition combined with ethnic cleansing or even genocide, with the goal of making Northern Ireland wholly Protestant.[18] The plan was to be implemented should the British Army withdraw from Northern Ireland. The vastly Irish Catholic and nationalist areas would be handed over to the Republic, and those left stranded in the "Protestant state" would be "expelled, nullified, or interned".[18] The story was printed in the Sunday Independent newspaper on 16 January.[19] The "doomsday plan" was based on the work of Liam Kennedy, though he had not proposed expulsion.[18] Sammy Wilson, then press officer for the Democratic Unionist Party and later the MP for East Antrim, spoke positively of the document, calling it a "valuable return to reality" and lauded the UDA for "contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity".[18]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repartition_of_Irelan


    d

    Omg that’s shocking . He really is an absolutely

    loathsome individual .
    He presents as a common or garden bigot.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,286
    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    Sammy always looks as though he likes a drink (or ten) to me so at 11pm I'm not sure how seriously we should take his opines lol...
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    In early January 1994, the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) released a document calling for repartition combined with ethnic cleansing or even genocide, with the goal of making Northern Ireland wholly Protestant.[18] The plan was to be implemented should the British Army withdraw from Northern Ireland. The vastly Irish Catholic and nationalist areas would be handed over to the Republic, and those left stranded in the "Protestant state" would be "expelled, nullified, or interned".[18] The story was printed in the Sunday Independent newspaper on 16 January.[19] The "doomsday plan" was based on the work of Liam Kennedy, though he had not proposed expulsion.[18] Sammy Wilson, then press officer for the Democratic Unionist Party and later the MP for East Antrim, spoke positively of the document, calling it a "valuable return to reality" and lauded the UDA for "contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity".[18]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repartition_of_Ireland
    As I posted earlier

    'Yet only 55% of Northern Irish Catholics want a United Ireland while 79% of Northern Irish Protestants want to stay in the UK
    https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2022/12/03/poll-less-enthusiasm-for-unity-among-catholics-in-north-than-among-republics-respondents/'
    I find it difficult to see the connection between post and reply. The reply is about political preferences under the GFA whereas the post was about a plan for ethnic cleansing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    In early January 1994, the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) released a document calling for repartition combined with ethnic cleansing or even genocide, with the goal of making Northern Ireland wholly Protestant.[18] The plan was to be implemented should the British Army withdraw from Northern Ireland. The vastly Irish Catholic and nationalist areas would be handed over to the Republic, and those left stranded in the "Protestant state" would be "expelled, nullified, or interned".[18] The story was printed in the Sunday Independent newspaper on 16 January.[19] The "doomsday plan" was based on the work of Liam Kennedy, though he had not proposed expulsion.[18] Sammy Wilson, then press officer for the Democratic Unionist Party and later the MP for East Antrim, spoke positively of the document, calling it a "valuable return to reality" and lauded the UDA for "contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity".[18]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repartition_of_Ireland
    As I posted earlier

    'Yet only 55% of Northern Irish Catholics want a United Ireland while 79% of Northern Irish Protestants want to stay in the UK
    https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2022/12/03/poll-less-enthusiasm-for-unity-among-catholics-in-north-than-among-republics-respondents/'
    I find it difficult to see the connection between post and reply.
    How unusual...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,938
    edited February 2023
    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    In early January 1994, the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) released a document calling for repartition combined with ethnic cleansing or even genocide, with the goal of making Northern Ireland wholly Protestant.[18] The plan was to be implemented should the British Army withdraw from Northern Ireland. The vastly Irish Catholic and nationalist areas would be handed over to the Republic, and those left stranded in the "Protestant state" would be "expelled, nullified, or interned".[18] The story was printed in the Sunday Independent newspaper on 16 January.[19] The "doomsday plan" was based on the work of Liam Kennedy, though he had not proposed expulsion.[18] Sammy Wilson, then press officer for the Democratic Unionist Party and later the MP for East Antrim, spoke positively of the document, calling it a "valuable return to reality" and lauded the UDA for "contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity".[18]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repartition_of_Ireland
    As I posted earlier

    'Yet only 55% of Northern Irish Catholics want a United Ireland while 79% of Northern Irish Protestants want to stay in the UK
    https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2022/12/03/poll-less-enthusiasm-for-unity-among-catholics-in-north-than-among-republics-respondents/'
    I find it difficult to see the connection between post and reply. The reply is about political preferences under the GFA whereas the post was about a plan for ethnic cleansing.
    Given 21% of Northern Irish Protestants do not want to stay in the UK and 45% of Northern Irish Catholics do not want a United Ireland, religion is not the dividing line it once was in terms of views of the Union in Northern Ireland. So redefining Northern Ireland as a solely Protestant state would not make it 100% Unionist anyway
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Jeffrey Sachs joins the tankies.
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/jeffrey-sachss-great-power-politics

    Apparently the Russian invasion is entirely the fault of the US.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    They fear the future, whatever it may bring, so spend their time just huddling together assuming that if they prevent anything at all that will be a good result.
  • Would be pretty wild for hundreds of millions of pounds to have been spent on preparations for a deposit return scheme, to be this far through registration etc (producer deadline tomorrow), and there still to be a chance of it falling apart over a fairly foundational issue…

    https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1630288319715131398?s=20

    The responsibility for taking the initiative to get permissions in time from a third party, whoever they are, rests with the organisation making the change, whatever it is. This is the most basic thing anyone who's done a job in government has been expected to know, always./...

    Any spin in any context that it's anyone's fault but the SG's if an approach wasn't made to a 3rd party in time, at the appropriate level, with the appropriate formality and clarity, should always be challenged. People are paid grown-up salaries in Scotland to do this stuff.


    https://twitter.com/LucyHunterB/status/1630345278166319104?s=20
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Nigelb said:

    Jeffrey Sachs joins the tankies.
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/jeffrey-sachss-great-power-politics

    Apparently the Russian invasion is entirely the fault of the US.

    Is it not just a little bit Jeff Sach’s fault for his role in the transition to a “market econony” in Russia that ultimately led to the rise of Putin’s gangster-autocracy?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    In early January 1994, the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) released a document calling for repartition combined with ethnic cleansing or even genocide, with the goal of making Northern Ireland wholly Protestant.[18] The plan was to be implemented should the British Army withdraw from Northern Ireland. The vastly Irish Catholic and nationalist areas would be handed over to the Republic, and those left stranded in the "Protestant state" would be "expelled, nullified, or interned".[18] The story was printed in the Sunday Independent newspaper on 16 January.[19] The "doomsday plan" was based on the work of Liam Kennedy, though he had not proposed expulsion.[18] Sammy Wilson, then press officer for the Democratic Unionist Party and later the MP for East Antrim, spoke positively of the document, calling it a "valuable return to reality" and lauded the UDA for "contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity".[18]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repartition_of_Ireland
    HYUFD is Sammy Wilson and I claim £5.
    Sue, HYUFD.

    Plenty of witnesses.
    Sammy's considering his options too, just sayin'
  • Nigelb said:

    Jeffrey Sachs joins the tankies.
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/jeffrey-sachss-great-power-politics

    Apparently the Russian invasion is entirely the fault of the US.

    Joins?

    Sachs has been a madman for many years now. He's been blaming Russia's invasion on the US since the beginning of the war, Covid19 came from an American lab, and its the Uighurs fault* they're being wiped out by China and its not at all a genocide** nosiree ...

    * OK I made that one up, but ** not that one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Absolutely extraordinary interview with Steve Baker on Newsnight. He was choking back tears, wobbly lips, the lot. Then said he was stupid at ever accepting the Brexit hard man frame, and that his beard etc are the result of seven years of hell leading rebellions.

    He honestly seems a bit more genuine than many politicians, which may be why he can surprise, negatively and positively.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    In early January 1994, the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) released a document calling for repartition combined with ethnic cleansing or even genocide, with the goal of making Northern Ireland wholly Protestant.[18] The plan was to be implemented should the British Army withdraw from Northern Ireland. The vastly Irish Catholic and nationalist areas would be handed over to the Republic, and those left stranded in the "Protestant state" would be "expelled, nullified, or interned".[18] The story was printed in the Sunday Independent newspaper on 16 January.[19] The "doomsday plan" was based on the work of Liam Kennedy, though he had not proposed expulsion.[18] Sammy Wilson, then press officer for the Democratic Unionist Party and later the MP for East Antrim, spoke positively of the document, calling it a "valuable return to reality" and lauded the UDA for "contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity".[18]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repartition_of_Ireland
    HYUFD is Sammy Wilson and I claim £5.
    Sue, HYUFD.

    Plenty of witnesses.
    Yes, though presumably meant in jest, was uncalled for.
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:



    China now exporting as many cars as Germany (almost certainly much lower revenue and profit, though)

    It’s almost as if Covid was a bio weapon released from wuhan to fuel china’s rise to industrial hegemony over the west
    @Leon
    Close but not quite. Selling cars is a side benefit.
    If it came from the lab, "lab leak" is highly unlikely. One doesn't have to be a Bayesian to suss that.
    In a sense, China is the lab.
    Twitter and Facebook love social credit. Social credit is The Way. AI is a distraction. Programs will never take over.
    Wait till you find out which western companies are big in Xinjiang.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nigelb said:

    Jeffrey Sachs joins the tankies.
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/jeffrey-sachss-great-power-politics

    Apparently the Russian invasion is entirely the fault of the US.

    Joins?

    Sachs has been a madman for many years now. He's been blaming Russia's invasion on the US since the beginning of the war, Covid19 came from an American lab, and its the Uighurs fault* they're being wiped out by China and its not at all a genocide** nosiree ...

    * OK I made that one up, but ** not that one.
    It’s the level of denial, though.
    Actually said that Assad wasn’t murdering civilians, and there’d have been a peaceful settlement in Syria without US meddling.

    Also seems to be dabbling in anti-vaxxery.

    Full tonto.
  • Braverman backs deal

    Thought she was going to resign
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jeffrey Sachs joins the tankies.
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/jeffrey-sachss-great-power-politics

    Apparently the Russian invasion is entirely the fault of the US.

    Joins?

    Sachs has been a madman for many years now. He's been blaming Russia's invasion on the US since the beginning of the war, Covid19 came from an American lab, and its the Uighurs fault* they're being wiped out by China and its not at all a genocide** nosiree ...

    * OK I made that one up, but ** not that one.
    It’s the level of denial, though.
    Actually said that Assad wasn’t murdering civilians, and there’d have been a peaceful settlement in Syria without US meddling.

    Also seems to be dabbling in anti-vaxxery.

    Full tonto.
    I'm no psychiatrist by any means, but I have a feeling he couldn't cope seeing how badly Russia went in the 90s following his advice and he's just snapped. He's been full on round the bend crazy for years now.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Braverman backs deal

    Thought she was going to resign

    Nowhere to go
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Braverman backs deal

    Thought she was going to resign

    What would be the point? If she could bring down Sunak and Boris returned what role would she get better than what she has now?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Tory lead soon?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,938
    Interesting data from the previous Deltapoll shows Rishi is winning back some Remainers but losing Leavers, maybe reinforced by this Deal.

    79% of 2019 Conservative voting Remainers still back the Tories but only 60% of 2019 Conservative voting Leavers are still voting Tory.

    3% of 2019 Labour voting Remainers by contrast now back Sunak's Tories but only 1% of 2019 Labour voting Leavers have switched to the Tories.

    The class figures now show the Tories doing better with middle class voters than working class voters, a reverse of 2019. The Tories were on 29% with ABC1s but only 27% with C2DEs. Starmer by contrast has won back working class voters, 55% of C2DEs now back Labour compared to only 47% of ABC1s
    https://deltapoll.co.uk/polls/voteint230221
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    HYUFD said:

    Interesting data from the previous Deltapoll shows Rishi is winning back some Remainers but losing Leavers, maybe reinforced by this Deal.

    Not sure why, we're just as left as we were before Rishi took over. But then maybe I'm analysing too much considering the Sunak 'remainer traitor' stuff from the leadership contest.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    More Fox dirt emerging from the Dominion case. They would seem to be royally screwed (in a self inflicted manner), with executives fully implicated.

    Media Matters has obtained a copy of the latest Dominion filing, featuring Rupert Murdoch's deposition (and some light redactions from the court).

    I will be tweeting out snippets in this thread as I read through it.

    https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1630317375533744130
  • Sunak needs to call the vote on a 3 line whip and withdraw the whip from anyone who abstains or votes against hence resetting the party

    Why does he need to? That's a last resort, as Major did over Maastricht and Boris did after years of paralysis in the previous Parliament.

    First step and even better normally is calling the vote on a normal whip, and winning the vote handsomely because people have backed it, rather than because of desperate shenanigans.

    All but one of Major's "bastards" voted for Maastricht once it was made a confidence motion, didn't end the divide, did it?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Andy_JS said:

    Tory lead soon?

    No.
    But it might stop the rot progressing,
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    They fear the future, whatever it may bring, so spend their time just huddling together assuming that if they prevent anything at all that will be a good result.
    The DUP is the political wing of the Free Presybterian Church of Ulster, and while it's true that they fear the future it's also true that they get off on fearing the future. They think they know what the future will bring, because they believe it's all written in the Book of Revelations. The principal factor in everything they say about the border or the Irish Sea is their belief that the Roman Catholic church is the Antichrist, that it owns both the RoI and the EU, and that it's hell-bent on coming to get them. They love "holding out" more than everything. Their whole mythos is based on it. They are far crazier than the IRA ever were. The IRA's mythos was kitsch in comparison.

    I don't think a single newspaper has mentioned why it is that the DUP dislike the EU.
  • Nigelb said:

    More Fox dirt emerging from the Dominion case. They would seem to be royally screwed (in a self inflicted manner), with executives fully implicated.

    Media Matters has obtained a copy of the latest Dominion filing, featuring Rupert Murdoch's deposition (and some light redactions from the court).

    I will be tweeting out snippets in this thread as I read through it.

    https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1630317375533744130

    The fact that Fox/Murdoch were swayed by "the green" is hardly shocking. Bad, but to be expected.

    This I'm actually shocked by: https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1630319070393270280
    Rupert Murdoch gave Trump son-in-law/aide Jared Kushner access to "Fox confidential information about Biden's ads," apparently showing them to him before they were public.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Stokes knee injury by the look of it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited February 2023

    Nigelb said:

    More Fox dirt emerging from the Dominion case. They would seem to be royally screwed (in a self inflicted manner), with executives fully implicated.

    Media Matters has obtained a copy of the latest Dominion filing, featuring Rupert Murdoch's deposition (and some light redactions from the court).

    I will be tweeting out snippets in this thread as I read through it.

    https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1630317375533744130

    The fact that Fox/Murdoch were swayed by "the green" is hardly shocking. Bad, but to be expected.

    This I'm actually shocked by: https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1630319070393270280
    Rupert Murdoch gave Trump son-in-law/aide Jared Kushner access to "Fox confidential information about Biden's ads," apparently showing them to him before they were public.
    Of course.
    But it’s a libel trial*, and they’ve completely admitted that they knew they were lying about the company which is suing them, and carried on doing so, for money.
    They even sacked their own fact checking team for saying so.

    *edit - case.
    It may never get to trial,
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,938
    Westie said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    They fear the future, whatever it may bring, so spend their time just huddling together assuming that if they prevent anything at all that will be a good result.
    The DUP is the political wing of the Free Presybterian Church of Ulster, and while it's true that they fear the future it's also true that they get off on fearing the future. They think they know what the future will bring, because they believe it's all written in the Book of Revelations. The principal factor in everything they say about the border or the Irish Sea is their belief that the Roman Catholic church is the Antichrist, that it owns both the RoI and the EU, and that it's hell-bent on coming to get them. They love "holding out" more than everything. Their whole mythos is based on it. They are far crazier than the IRA ever were. The IRA's mythos was kitsch in comparison.

    I don't think a single newspaper has mentioned why it is that the DUP dislike the EU.
    Indeed, the DUP are close in doctrine to Forbes' Free Church of Scotland via the Free Presbyterians, as are the TUV.

    The UUP tend to be Church of Ireland, SF and the SDLP Roman Catholic and non religious, the Alliance a mix of Catholic, Protestant and non religious
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Nigelb said:

    Stokes knee injury by the look of it.

    £1.6m could be the cost to Stokes. Reckon he should retire and let Foakes take over, but I guess he's hanging on for the lunch interval.
  • Nigelb said:

    Stokes knee injury by the look of it.

    Wild game out there. England still favs, but can't afford any more mishaps.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Root takes the deficit below 100 with a majestic six. Then four more with a reverse sweep.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Root chancing his arm just before lunch.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Nigelb said:

    Stokes knee injury by the look of it.

    £1.6m could be the cost to Stokes. Reckon he should retire and let Foakes take over, but I guess he's hanging on for the lunch interval.
    Yeah, just trying to nurse it through.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Nigelb said:

    More Fox dirt emerging from the Dominion case. They would seem to be royally screwed (in a self inflicted manner), with executives fully implicated.

    Media Matters has obtained a copy of the latest Dominion filing, featuring Rupert Murdoch's deposition (and some light redactions from the court).

    I will be tweeting out snippets in this thread as I read through it.

    https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1630317375533744130

    The fact that Fox/Murdoch were swayed by "the green" is hardly shocking. Bad, but to be expected.

    This I'm actually shocked by: https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1630319070393270280
    Rupert Murdoch gave Trump son-in-law/aide Jared Kushner access to "Fox confidential information about Biden's ads," apparently showing them to him before they were public.
    I think the money point is because in order to prove the required standard Dominion basically need to show Fox was motivated to intentionally lie or have reckless disregard for lies they were spreading, so an admission, however obvious, that their coverage is all about the dollar bills helps the case more than its obviousness would suggest.
  • Driver said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stokes knee injury by the look of it.

    £1.6m could be the cost to Stokes. Reckon he should retire and let Foakes take over, but I guess he's hanging on for the lunch interval.
    Yeah, just trying to nurse it through.
    To be fair he's got practice and experience at batting on, on day five, while injured.

    He knows what he's doing.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Driver said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stokes knee injury by the look of it.

    £1.6m could be the cost to Stokes. Reckon he should retire and let Foakes take over, but I guess he's hanging on for the lunch interval.
    Yeah, just trying to nurse it through.
    To be fair he's got practice and experience at batting on, on day five, while injured.

    He knows what he's doing.
    Maybe. But he ended up taking a break from the game after rushing back from a finger injury.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Didn’t realise Brook munched a platinum duck!
  • Driver said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stokes knee injury by the look of it.

    £1.6m could be the cost to Stokes. Reckon he should retire and let Foakes take over, but I guess he's hanging on for the lunch interval.
    Yeah, just trying to nurse it through.
    To be fair he's got practice and experience at batting on, on day five, while injured.

    He knows what he's doing.
    Maybe. But he ended up taking a break from the game after rushing back from a finger injury.
    So long as he's fit for the Ashes this summer.

    Keep Jimmy and Broad bowling as they are, the team batting as they are, this could be quite the Ashes to look forward to.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Root is now equal 11th all time in Test runs with Steve Waugh.

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/223646.html
  • Didn’t realise Brook munched a platinum duck!

    Diamond duck.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    edited February 2023
    On this amendment to the NI protocol, I posted last night that anything that smoothed GB-NI trade was a win, so this looks like a pretty big win. I think your average small u unionist expects that trading arrangements are fairly simple; NI is seen as part of GB on a day to day basis. Thats it.

    This agreement seems on the surface to be substantively moving things to that situation. Does that Joe Average unionist really care about the ECJ in a trade dispute? I am not that sure.

    Whilst I think Alaistair Meeks is perhaps hyping things on the double dunter potential like a TikToker promoting some fad, the basics of accepting that NI was a kind of special case (sadly) did have potential to give some benefits but the previous agreement could have strangled Harry Houdini. Whether people like it or not, NI is still very much in the UK and the Protocol undermined that in a very bread and butter way.
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426

    Nigelb said:

    Jeffrey Sachs joins the tankies.
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/jeffrey-sachss-great-power-politics

    Apparently the Russian invasion is entirely the fault of the US.

    Joins?

    Sachs has been a madman for many years now. He's been blaming Russia's invasion on the US since the beginning of the war, Covid19 came from an American lab, and its the Uighurs fault* they're being wiped out by China and its not at all a genocide** nosiree ...

    * OK I made that one up, but ** not that one.
    No need to make stuff up. Sachs denounces the genocide allegation without mentioning the allegation that the Chinese authorities are imposing forced sterilisations and forced contraception (IUDs) to reduce the Uighur birth rate. If that's true it's certainly a crime against humanity. I'm not sure that Sachs mentions the camps either, or anything else that's equally specific - such as the popup police stations and the digital surveillance which is of course big in China against everyone but is especially targeted in Xinjiang at the non-Han. He just goes on about the word genocide. He sounds as if he's the Chinese govenrment's lawyer. He is writing for those who haven't got a clue or who at least are way behind the times when he refers to Uighur volunteers in Afghanistan and Syria. Meanwhile Amnesty focus on Urumqi where the situation is admittedly bad but if you were to read only their material you would come away with the idea that there's a large Uighur majority in Urumqi. Urumqi isn't Kashgar. What's happening in Xinjiang should be much more widely known.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    Westie said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    They fear the future, whatever it may bring, so spend their time just huddling together assuming that if they prevent anything at all that will be a good result.
    The DUP is the political wing of the Free Presybterian Church of Ulster, and while it's true that they fear the future it's also true that they get off on fearing the future. They think they know what the future will bring, because they believe it's all written in the Book of Revelations. The principal factor in everything they say about the border or the Irish Sea is their belief that the Roman Catholic church is the Antichrist, that it owns both the RoI and the EU, and that it's hell-bent on coming to get them. They love "holding out" more than everything. Their whole mythos is based on it. They are far crazier than the IRA ever were. The IRA's mythos was kitsch in comparison.

    I don't think a single newspaper has mentioned why it is that the DUP dislike the EU.
    This view is about 30 years out of date. But, you know, some people just never move on....
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Didn’t realise Brook munched a platinum duck!

    Diamond duck.
    Yes, sorry, getting my precious materials confused. Quite remarkable. Thinking about pushing it a bit and watching half an hour after lunch…
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    Yokes said:

    Westie said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    They fear the future, whatever it may bring, so spend their time just huddling together assuming that if they prevent anything at all that will be a good result.
    The DUP is the political wing of the Free Presybterian Church of Ulster, and while it's true that they fear the future it's also true that they get off on fearing the future. They think they know what the future will bring, because they believe it's all written in the Book of Revelations. The principal factor in everything they say about the border or the Irish Sea is their belief that the Roman Catholic church is the Antichrist, that it owns both the RoI and the EU, and that it's hell-bent on coming to get them. They love "holding out" more than everything. Their whole mythos is based on it. They are far crazier than the IRA ever were. The IRA's mythos was kitsch in comparison.

    I don't think a single newspaper has mentioned why it is that the DUP dislike the EU.
    This view is about 30 years out of date. But, you know, some people just never move on....
    I take it you mean my view rather than the view I am ascribing to the DUP. What was the reason in your view that the DUP opposed Britain's EU membership?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,802
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Tory lead soon?

    No.
    But it might stop the rot progressing,
    I didn't think this would have any effect. Almost no-one on the mainland bases their vote on what happens to NI. But maybe among of that huge cohort which has abandoned the Tories in the polls there is a chunk for whom a veneer of competence might prove the excuse they need to return.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    Westie said:

    Yokes said:

    Westie said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    They fear the future, whatever it may bring, so spend their time just huddling together assuming that if they prevent anything at all that will be a good result.
    The DUP is the political wing of the Free Presybterian Church of Ulster, and while it's true that they fear the future it's also true that they get off on fearing the future. They think they know what the future will bring, because they believe it's all written in the Book of Revelations. The principal factor in everything they say about the border or the Irish Sea is their belief that the Roman Catholic church is the Antichrist, that it owns both the RoI and the EU, and that it's hell-bent on coming to get them. They love "holding out" more than everything. Their whole mythos is based on it. They are far crazier than the IRA ever were. The IRA's mythos was kitsch in comparison.

    I don't think a single newspaper has mentioned why it is that the DUP dislike the EU.
    This view is about 30 years out of date. But, you know, some people just never move on....
    I take it you mean my view rather than the view I am ascribing to the DUP. What was the reason in your view that the DUP opposed Britain's EU membership?
    National Sovereignty considered more important than Supranational bodies having greater power, don't think the EU was an honest broker are probably two for a start. Take a long hard look at the make up of the party today, sure it still has its Paisleyite religious types but it is largely dominated by poeople who have fuck all interest in Free Presbyetrianism. In fact the DUP is chock full of fucking technocrats and wonks in the back offices, not people holding prayer meetings. Since Paisley they have had one leader in the deeply religious mould. It didnt protect him from being put out on his arse after a couple of months.

    Whats People Before Profits Excuse for its anti EU stance at times? Are they the radical wing of Catholicism and fear the EU is full of Prods?
  • Yokes said:

    Westie said:

    Yokes said:

    Westie said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    They fear the future, whatever it may bring, so spend their time just huddling together assuming that if they prevent anything at all that will be a good result.
    The DUP is the political wing of the Free Presybterian Church of Ulster, and while it's true that they fear the future it's also true that they get off on fearing the future. They think they know what the future will bring, because they believe it's all written in the Book of Revelations. The principal factor in everything they say about the border or the Irish Sea is their belief that the Roman Catholic church is the Antichrist, that it owns both the RoI and the EU, and that it's hell-bent on coming to get them. They love "holding out" more than everything. Their whole mythos is based on it. They are far crazier than the IRA ever were. The IRA's mythos was kitsch in comparison.

    I don't think a single newspaper has mentioned why it is that the DUP dislike the EU.
    This view is about 30 years out of date. But, you know, some people just never move on....
    I take it you mean my view rather than the view I am ascribing to the DUP. What was the reason in your view that the DUP opposed Britain's EU membership?
    National Sovereignty considered more important than Supranational bodies having greater power, don't think the EU was an honest broker are probably two for a start. Take a long hard look at the make up of the party today, sure it still has its Paisleyite religious types but it is largely dominated by poeople who have fuck all interest in Free Presbyetrianism. In fact the DUP is chock full of fucking technocrats and wonks in the back offices, not people holding prayer meetings. Since Paisley they have had one leader in the deeply religious mould. It didnt protect him from being put out on his arse after a couple of months.

    Whats People Before Profits Excuse for its anti EU stance at times? Are they the radical wing of Catholicism and fear the EU is full of Prods?
    People Before Profit have supported leaving the EU[53] and campaigned for a 'Lexit' (a left-wing Brexit) in the 2016 EU referendum in Northern Ireland.[54][55] Commenting on their pro-Brexit position, Gerry Carroll stated "We made a decision to say that the EU does not operate in the interests of working people anywhere, and the strongest example of that is Greece. What we need is a Brexit that is not shaped by Theresa May, we need one that is shaped by working-class people in Northern Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales. And one that is shaped by the trade union movement."[56] Members of Sinn Féin criticised this stance, saying that supporting Brexit, tactically or otherwise, aligned PBP with British parties such as the Conservatives, UKIP, the Democratic Unionist Party and Traditional Unionist Voice and regardless of PBP's intentions, this would serve the pro-Brexit agenda.[57] In response, Richard Boyd-Barrett tried to distance PBP's position from those parties, and noted that PBP opposed a hard border, and would encourage "a movement of civil disobedience to remove border posts if they are imposed by either the UK government or the EU".[58]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_Before_Profit
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    Andy_JS said:

    Tory lead soon?

    As a base to refer to, the graphical chart from this evening has both main parties smiling at the same time


  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    Sunak needs to call the vote on a 3 line whip and withdraw the whip from anyone who abstains or votes against hence resetting the party

    What a lot of anti Boris hyperbole taken out and waved around this evening.

    I’m getting likes and no dissent on ConHome for my calm nuanced analysis of this situation.



    A week can be a long time in politics. I wonder what will happen next ☺️
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    edited February 2023

    Per Le Monde
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    IanB2 said:

    I have to say Sunak is demolitioning Johnson's ludicrous NIP

    Indeed it is astonishing just how awful it was

    It depends what you think the purpose of Johnson’s NIP was.

    Mays deal was worse in the long run.

    The NIP was practically unworkable but got through Brexit to a point where it could be sensibly renegotiated

    Judged on that metric it did what it was intended to do
    Utter tripe.

    It’s like saying that the shit on the carpet “intended” that the carpet be cleaned.
    Well it's certainly a stepping stone toward a clean carpet....
    The point is that May’s deal was fixed. There was no incentive for the EU to renegotiate. The NIP was shit for everyone and hence triggered change



  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited February 2023
    Hidden behind some others news today, have we given enough attention to Ed Balls attack on the vagueness of Starmer, and Labours silence on fixing social care?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/27/keir-starmer-five-national-missions-economy-ed-balls-criticism
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    England about to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory here. 36 runs short, with only two wickets remaining.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Ben Foakes single-handedly rescuing the visitors here, only 9 runs required now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited February 2023
    Oh bugger, there he goes, for a very good 35. Still 7 short, now up to Leach and Anderson with the bat!
  • 251/9

    7 runs or 1 wicket.

    Couldn't be more tense. Test cricket, you've got to love it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    FOUR!
  • Anderson boundary (!!!)

    Wicket - NZ win
    1 run - Tie
    2 runs - England win

    Stressful.
  • Aww damnit, well done to the Kiwis by 1 run.

    Match for the ages that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Feck. One run short, closest Test match in years but really should have been an easy win for England.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154
    Sandpit said:

    Feck. One run short, closest Test match in years but really should have been an easy win for England.

    England probably shouldn't have enforced the follow on: their bowlers were tired, there was plenty of time in the day.

    But you know what? England is playing superbly and aggressively.

    Better the occasional game lost, than a team that plays for draws.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Feck. One run short, closest Test match in years but really should have been an easy win for England.

    England probably shouldn't have enforced the follow on: their bowlers were tired, there was plenty of time in the day.

    But you know what? England is playing superbly and aggressively.

    Better the occasional game lost, than a team that plays for draws.

    The turning point in the match was the 8th-wicket stand of 98 in New Zealand's first innings, scored at seven an over and featuring Southee's 49-ball 73.

    The result is a vindication of England's method, not a refutation.
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    Yokes said:

    Westie said:

    Yokes said:

    Westie said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Dear me Sammy Wilson is unhinged .

    The DUP are a fxcking disgrace and clearly nothing bar a return to a hard border between NI and Ireland will satisfy them.

    They fear the future, whatever it may bring, so spend their time just huddling together assuming that if they prevent anything at all that will be a good result.
    The DUP is the political wing of the Free Presybterian Church of Ulster, and while it's true that they fear the future it's also true that they get off on fearing the future. They think they know what the future will bring, because they believe it's all written in the Book of Revelations. The principal factor in everything they say about the border or the Irish Sea is their belief that the Roman Catholic church is the Antichrist, that it owns both the RoI and the EU, and that it's hell-bent on coming to get them. They love "holding out" more than everything. Their whole mythos is based on it. They are far crazier than the IRA ever were. The IRA's mythos was kitsch in comparison.

    I don't think a single newspaper has mentioned why it is that the DUP dislike the EU.
    This view is about 30 years out of date. But, you know, some people just never move on....
    I take it you mean my view rather than the view I am ascribing to the DUP. What was the reason in your view that the DUP opposed Britain's EU membership?
    National Sovereignty considered more important than Supranational bodies having greater power, don't think the EU was an honest broker are probably two for a start. Take a long hard look at the make up of the party today, sure it still has its Paisleyite religious types but it is largely dominated by poeople who have fuck all interest in Free Presbyetrianism. In fact the DUP is chock full of fucking technocrats and wonks in the back offices, not people holding prayer meetings. Since Paisley they have had one leader in the deeply religious mould. It didnt protect him from being put out on his arse after a couple of months.

    Whats People Before Profits Excuse for its anti EU stance at times? Are they the radical wing of Catholicism and fear the EU is full of Prods?
    I hadn't heard of PBP. Three minutes of lookup on the internet suggests they don't seem to think the EU is full of Protestants or anything similar. I doubt they're any kind of wing of Catholicism. They don't seem to be about defending ethnic traditions, let alone any that date back to the 17th century.

    National sovereignty considered more important than supranational bodies? That's a legitimate view, but if it's so important to the DUP do they propose that Britain should leave NATO or tell the ECHR and ICJ where to get off? Also they are Irish. I'm not telling them what identity or politics they should have, but Ulster is a province of Ireland. They're British too, and it's their British identity that's far more important to them. Why? It can't just be "because". It's to do with tradition and being Protestant and against rule by evil Dublin.

    As for broker, I didn't realise the EU was a broker. Is that how they see it??
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