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R&W has the worst voting poll in months for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,753
edited February 2023 in General
R&W has the worst voting poll in months for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

Labour leads by 27%, the largest lead for Labour since Sunak became PM.Westminster VI (18 February):Labour 51% (+3)Conservative 24% (-3)Liberal Democrat 10% (+1)Reform UK 6% (–)Green 5% (–)SNP 3% (-1)Other 1% (–)Changes +/- 12 Februaryhttps://t.co/DLQ7mouhQe pic.twitter.com/zmsWHMrTfM

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Comments

  • Options
    First class.
  • Options
    Second like Rishi
  • Options
    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,987
    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂
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    Have we an actual quote from Forbes on the gay marriage stuff?

    NEW: Kate Forbes tells @Channel4News she would have voted against equal marriage.

    But as First Minister she will not 'row back on rights that already exist.'

    https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1627745647356006400
  • Options

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    We made a great choice with Starmer. He was the only candidate who had a chance of winning. The scenario I thought unlikely at the time but it has worked out for him.
  • Options

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
  • Options
    According to YouGov, support for same sex marriage across the UK is at 77% as of 9th January 2023, this number is 79% in the Scotland subsample.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1627747506992947201
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,120

    According to YouGov, support for same sex marriage across the UK is at 77% as of 9th January 2023, this number is 79% in the Scotland subsample.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1627747506992947201

    That's pretty much MOE.

    Can't see how the Greens could support a Forbes led SNP, now.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,472

    According to YouGov, support for same sex marriage across the UK is at 77% as of 9th January 2023, this number is 79% in the Scotland subsample.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1627747506992947201

    I wonder how has that changed over the last three decades?

    Sadly, the recent hysteria over trans people (see (*)) shows that liberal progress can be reversed.

    (*) https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/brianna-ghey-vigil-disrupted-after-26278191
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,179

    Have we an actual quote from Forbes on the gay marriage stuff?

    NEW: Kate Forbes tells @Channel4News she would have voted against equal marriage.

    But as First Minister she will not 'row back on rights that already exist.'

    https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1627745647356006400
    How nice of her ! And people are supposed to be grateful ! Her campaign is over .
  • Options

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


  • Options
    🔻 EXCLUSIVE: Police forces have been told to prepare for abuse at polling stations when voter identification is introduced at the May local elections.

    @Anoosh_C reports:

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1627673090342764544

    Well done Tories
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,384
    edited February 2023

    According to YouGov, support for same sex marriage across the UK is at 77% as of 9th January 2023, this number is 79% in the Scotland subsample.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1627747506992947201

    I wonder how has that changed over the last three decades?

    Sadly, the recent hysteria over trans people (see (*)) shows that liberal progress can be reversed.

    (*) https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/brianna-ghey-vigil-disrupted-after-26278191
    Not sure if the question wording is exactly the same but see pp 1-2 - 41% in 2002 increasing to 68% in 2014.

    https://www.equality-network.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/141216_SSA-_Same-Sex-Marriage-Brief.pdf
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    maxhmaxh Posts: 890

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
  • Options
    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,384

    🔻 EXCLUSIVE: Police forces have been told to prepare for abuse at polling stations when voter identification is introduced at the May local elections.

    @Anoosh_C reports:

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1627673090342764544

    Well done Tories

    Applies to local gmt. No elections (at present) in Wales or Scotland, either, this year.
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    🔻 EXCLUSIVE: Police forces have been told to prepare for abuse at polling stations when voter identification is introduced at the May local elections.

    @Anoosh_C reports:

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1627673090342764544

    Well done Tories

    Based on recent events, surely the police are fine with coming up with ways to abuse the public without bothering with preparation for it?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,353

    Have we an actual quote from Forbes on the gay marriage stuff?

    NEW: Kate Forbes tells @Channel4News she would have voted against equal marriage.

    But as First Minister she will not 'row back on rights that already exist.'

    https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1627745647356006400
    The interpretation by idiots on here is laughable
  • Options
    maxhmaxh Posts: 890

    🔻 EXCLUSIVE: Police forces have been told to prepare for abuse at polling stations when voter identification is introduced at the May local elections.

    @Anoosh_C reports:

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1627673090342764544

    Well done Tories

    I am definitely considering attending the polling station but refusing to show ID. I shall be thoroughly polite, though, officers.

    It does help that I struggle to care about local elections, though I am well aware of what a futile waste of time my proposed course of action will be.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,472

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    But you are Labour though-and-through, and therefore have a little bias. ;)

    Although (from memory it had little impact on the polling, the Brown/Duffy farrago in 2010 showed Brown's problems. Blair (with his team) would have shrugged it off. The electorate and media were less keen to forgive Brown. Brown may have tried to look serious, but he was clueless. He had ten years to prepare for the top job, and actively undermined his PM (and supposed friend) to get it. Yet when he got it, the problems he himself contributed to damaged him - not helped by the fact he was continuity Blair.

    Even Ed Miliband would have been a better PM than Brown turned out to be.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,854
    Scotch experts should definitely not look at the geographical subsamples of this poll (because the margin on error on them is obviously so large as to make the figures meaningless).
  • Options

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    But you are Labour though-and-through, and therefore have a little bias. ;)

    Although (from memory it had little impact on the polling, the Brown/Duffy farrago in 2010 showed Brown's problems. Blair (with his team) would have shrugged it off. The electorate and media were less keen to forgive Brown. Brown may have tried to look serious, but he was clueless. He had ten years to prepare for the top job, and actively undermined his PM (and supposed friend) to get it. Yet when he got it, the problems he himself contributed to damaged him - not helped by the fact he was continuity Blair.

    Even Ed Miliband would have been a better PM than Brown turned out to be.
    Actually I'm not, I'm left wing but I've voted Tory and Lib Dem in the past!

    And I would be very happy to, if Labour run out of road. Changes of Government are good.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,120

    🔻 EXCLUSIVE: Police forces have been told to prepare for abuse at polling stations when voter identification is introduced at the May local elections.

    @Anoosh_C reports:

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1627673090342764544

    Well done Tories

    Based on recent events, surely the police are fine with coming up with ways to abuse the public without bothering with preparation for it?
    I think they are expected to come up with something new.

    Probably need to get the dog teams out. The dog does the thinking. The police officer is there to keep an eye on the dangerous intellectual.
  • Options

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Oooh now, Gordon was plenty capable of creating his own brand of chaos, but I think he would have won.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,353

    According to YouGov, support for same sex marriage across the UK is at 77% as of 9th January 2023, this number is 79% in the Scotland subsample.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1627747506992947201

    I wonder how has that changed over the last three decades?

    Sadly, the recent hysteria over trans people (see (*)) shows that liberal progress can be reversed.

    (*) https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/brianna-ghey-vigil-disrupted-after-26278191
    what bollox is that re trans losing rights. Can you name a right they have lost.
  • Options

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Oooh now, Gordon was plenty capable of creating his own brand of chaos, but I think he would have won.
    Even if he'd lost, the Tories would have overseen the financial crisis. Something they said needed less regulation than Labour proposed, so it would have been worse under them - Labour would have been back in a few years later.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,232
    Rishi Sunak - continuity Gordon Brown.
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    Broken, sleazy Tories and SNP on the slide!
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,458
    edited February 2023
    So it looks like the only main party leader to openly oppose gay marriage since it was passed in 2013 could be from the SNP.

    Ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Even Cameron and May voted for homosexual marriage as did Tim Farron despite his strong religious faith

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21346694.amp

    So much for Scotland being the left liberal alternative to England. Ha ha ha haha!!!!!
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,384
    edited February 2023
    malcolmg said:

    According to YouGov, support for same sex marriage across the UK is at 77% as of 9th January 2023, this number is 79% in the Scotland subsample.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1627747506992947201

    I wonder how has that changed over the last three decades?

    Sadly, the recent hysteria over trans people (see (*)) shows that liberal progress can be reversed.

    (*) https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/brianna-ghey-vigil-disrupted-after-26278191
    what bollox is that re trans losing rights. Can you name a right they have lost.
    I think he means hostility to trans folk e.g. from the ned element.
  • Options
    There must be a negative slogan we can make up about Rishi Sunak.

    Something about him being rich
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,681
    edited February 2023

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and is a decent human being, but un suited to being pm.
  • Options
    There's a parallel universe in which Brown was removed in 2009.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,120

    Scotch experts should definitely not look at the geographical subsamples of this poll (because the margin on error on them is obviously so large as to make the figures meaningless).

    Isn't the correct Scotch Expert process

    - Open a bottle of cask strength, 20 year old
    - Add a dash of water to a good measure
    - Inhale
    - Pontificate about polls

    ?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,353
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    According to YouGov, support for same sex marriage across the UK is at 77% as of 9th January 2023, this number is 79% in the Scotland subsample.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1627747506992947201

    I wonder how has that changed over the last three decades?

    Sadly, the recent hysteria over trans people (see (*)) shows that liberal progress can be reversed.

    (*) https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/brianna-ghey-vigil-disrupted-after-26278191
    what bollox is that re trans losing rights. Can you name a right they have lost.
    I think he means hostility to trans folk e.g. from the ned element.
    That is down to Sturgeon and her pals stirring it up with her crap policy. Also many of the Trans supporters are the most violent so still bollox, there are people on both sides that are just violent neds.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,384
    HYUFD said:

    So it looks like the only main party leader to openly oppose gay marriage since it was passed in 2013 could be from the SNP.

    Ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Even Cameron and May voted for homosexual marriage as did Tim Farron despite his strong religious faith

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21346694.amp

    So much for Scotland being the left liberal alternative to England. Ha ha ha haha!!!!!

    Voters in Scotland haven't voted for a Tory government since the 1960s.

    Nor has anyone, either the SNP, or the Holyrood Parliament, or the voters in Scotland, actually voted for Ms Forbes.


  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,120

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and us a decent human being, but un suited to being pm.
    In a parallel universe, where Stuart Rose got stuck in traffic or something, Cameron won the referendum and became the man who ended Nigel Farage's career.
  • Options

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Oooh now, Gordon was plenty capable of creating his own brand of chaos, but I think he would have won.
    Even if he'd lost, the Tories would have overseen the financial crisis. Something they said needed less regulation than Labour proposed, so it would have been worse under them - Labour would have been back in a few years later.
    You underestimate the consequences of the crisis getting out of control.

    Brown haters (and I'm no fan) choke on the notion that he played a leading role in mitigating its worst effect, but it is hard to dispute, and if it was the only good thing he did it was defintely a biggy.
    He saved the world, ask Barack Obama.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,854

    Scotch experts should definitely not look at the geographical subsamples of this poll (because the margin on error on them is obviously so large as to make the figures meaningless).

    Isn't the correct Scotch Expert process

    - Open a bottle of cask strength, 20 year old
    - Add a dash of water to a good measure
    - Inhale
    - Pontificate about polls

    ?
    Could get a bit expensive the way the polls are going.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    People are starting to see that holding together a party of nutters, economic illiterates and fantasists and pretending that they are fit to run a government is not as straightforward as Nicola made it appear. You’d have to be a saint not to laugh.

    Or a Tory of course. The joke went sour on them a while ago.

    The truly depressing thing, the Tory Eurosceptics won and yet still want more, potentially destroying another Tory PM.

    I suspect only nuking Bruxelles will satisfy the ERG.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,472

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Oooh now, Gordon was plenty capable of creating his own brand of chaos, but I think he would have won.
    If we assume much of the chaos was caused by Brexit, then I wonder what Labourites consider would have happened over the last 13 years if Brown had won. Would euroscepticism have disappeared? IMO, no. Would it have further infested their own party? IMO, yes.

    Brown had his five economic tests as a kluge to avoid Euro membership. There's no way those would have lasted until now - especially with no referendum to lance the boil and turn EU membership into less of a party-political issue.

    It's also interesting to consider *who* would be PM now, if Brown had won in 2007. If the next election had been in 2012/3, and Labour had won, I cannot see Brown having stayed PM for a 2017/8 GE - he would have been at, or near the top, of power for two decades. So who would have replaced him as Labour leader / PM? One of the Milibands? Balls/Cooper?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,120
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    According to YouGov, support for same sex marriage across the UK is at 77% as of 9th January 2023, this number is 79% in the Scotland subsample.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1627747506992947201

    I wonder how has that changed over the last three decades?

    Sadly, the recent hysteria over trans people (see (*)) shows that liberal progress can be reversed.

    (*) https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/brianna-ghey-vigil-disrupted-after-26278191
    what bollox is that re trans losing rights. Can you name a right they have lost.
    I think he means hostility to trans folk e.g. from the ned element.
    That is down to Sturgeon and her pals stirring it up with her crap policy. Also many of the Trans supporters are the most violent so still bollox, there are people on both sides that are just violent neds.
    What violence? I've seen some nasty threats, but actual violence?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,535

    Have we an actual quote from Forbes on the gay marriage stuff?

    NEW: Kate Forbes tells @Channel4News she would have voted against equal marriage.

    But as First Minister she will not 'row back on rights that already exist.'

    https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1627745647356006400
    I see she decided to make a window into her own soul publicly available.
    Admirable neither for the sentiment nor political nous.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,458
    Since the 2019 local elections results of Tories 28% Labour 28% and LD 19% there is actually a swing of 2.5% from LD to Tory on the RedfieldWilton poll. Even if a swing of 13.5% from Tory to Labour
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 1,962

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Oooh now, Gordon was plenty capable of creating his own brand of chaos, but I think he would have won.
    Even if he'd lost, the Tories would have overseen the financial crisis. Something they said needed less regulation than Labour proposed, so it would have been worse under them - Labour would have been back in a few years later.
    You underestimate the consequences of the crisis getting out of control.

    Brown haters (and I'm no fan) choke on the notion that he played a leading role in mitigating its worst effects, but it is hard to dispute, and if it was the only good thing he did it was definitely a biggy.
    Brown also kept us out of the €. The direct effects of the 2008 crash would have been much, much worse without the ability of the BoE to prop up the economy with QE.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,854

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and us a decent human being, but un suited to being pm.
    In a parallel universe, where Stuart Rose got stuck in traffic or something, Cameron won the referendum and became the man who ended Nigel Farage's career.
    Hardly. Farage would have hoped to become the voice for the losing 48%, who had victory stolen from them by government lies, etc.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,675

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and us a decent human being, but un suited to being pm.
    In a parallel universe, where Stuart Rose got stuck in traffic or something, Cameron won the referendum and became the man who ended Nigel Farage's career.
    Cameron did end former MEP Farage’s career. Winning the referendum was a
    disaster for him. He’s been an irrelevant and empty drum ever since.
  • Options

    There must be a negative slogan we can make up about Rishi Sunak.

    Something about him being rich

    That's not entirely his fault, though, whereas his sense of weakness is

    I'd try to make "Rishy washy" go viral if I were you.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,120

    Scotch experts should definitely not look at the geographical subsamples of this poll (because the margin on error on them is obviously so large as to make the figures meaningless).

    Isn't the correct Scotch Expert process

    - Open a bottle of cask strength, 20 year old
    - Add a dash of water to a good measure
    - Inhale
    - Pontificate about polls

    ?
    Could get a bit expensive the way the polls are going.
    As an Evul Tory, I just sell some more Collateralised Elderly Relative Obligations.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,458
    DavidL said:

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and us a decent human being, but un suited to being pm.
    In a parallel universe, where Stuart Rose got stuck in traffic or something, Cameron won the referendum and became the man who ended Nigel Farage's career.
    Cameron did end former MEP Farage’s career. Winning the referendum was a
    disaster for him. He’s been an irrelevant and empty drum ever since.
    Yes UKIP would have been on 20 to 25% had Remain narrowly won the EU referendum
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 1,962
    Nigelb said:

    Have we an actual quote from Forbes on the gay marriage stuff?

    NEW: Kate Forbes tells @Channel4News she would have voted against equal marriage.

    But as First Minister she will not 'row back on rights that already exist.'

    https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1627745647356006400
    I see she decided to make a window into her own soul publicly available.
    Admirable neither for the sentiment nor political nous.
    This is the kind of response that did for Tim Farron. Is this line likely to work for her any better than it did for him?
  • Options
    ForgottenGenius
    @ExStrategist
    The SNP are on the brink of meltdown.
  • Options
    maxhmaxh Posts: 890

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and is a decent human being, but
    un suited to being pm.
    Agreed, though that recent Blair-Brown documentary does make me wonder - why did Brown do the PFI crap? He was more left wing than Blair - was Brown pushed into PFI or was he the instigator? It’s before my time politically. Just seems so obviously crap in hindsight.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,906
    Back in my old West London Manor. Ealing Broadway station has certainly been spruced up since I was last here.

    What used to be Fat Boys Thai restaurant has become a branch of Rosa's. Hopefully the food is just as good. I shall find out soon. We used to eat here all the time. Here and the Clay Oven Indian restaurant which is now sadly shut down and boarded up.

    Tomorrow I get to sample Crossrail for the first time.

    Oh, and on topic: LOL.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,458
    edited February 2023
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    So it looks like the only main party leader to openly oppose gay marriage since it was passed in 2013 could be from the SNP.

    Ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Even Cameron and May voted for homosexual marriage as did Tim Farron despite his strong religious faith

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21346694.amp

    So much for Scotland being the left liberal alternative to England. Ha ha ha haha!!!!!

    Voters in Scotland haven't voted for a Tory government since the 1960s.

    Nor has anyone, either the SNP, or the Holyrood Parliament, or the voters in Scotland, actually voted for Ms Forbes.


    Yes they have, the voters of Skye Lochaber and Badenoch elected Ms Forbes
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,469
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    So it looks like the only main party leader to openly oppose gay marriage since it was passed in 2013 could be from the SNP.

    Ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Even Cameron and May voted for homosexual marriage as did Tim Farron despite his strong religious faith

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21346694.amp

    So much for Scotland being the left liberal alternative to England. Ha ha ha haha!!!!!

    Voters in Scotland haven't voted for a Tory government since the 1960s.

    Nor has anyone, either the SNP, or the Holyrood Parliament, or the voters in Scotland, actually voted for Ms Forbes.


    Any tips on who might throw their hat into the ring? Both Forbes and Yousaf look terribly flawed candidates. (And Denham is a no-hoper made irrelevant by Forbes anyway.)
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,344
    edited February 2023
    sorry buggered up block quotes
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,675
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    So it looks like the only main party leader to openly oppose gay marriage since it was passed in 2013 could be from the SNP.

    Ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Even Cameron and May voted for homosexual marriage as did Tim Farron despite his strong religious faith

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21346694.amp

    So much for Scotland being the left liberal alternative to England. Ha ha ha haha!!!!!

    Voters in Scotland haven't voted for a Tory government since the 1960s.

    Nor has anyone, either the SNP, or the Holyrood Parliament, or the voters in Scotland, actually voted for Ms Forbes.


    Her constituents did. And that’s kind of the way a representative democracy works.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,214

    Back in my old West London Manor. Ealing Broadway station has certainly been spruced up since I was last here.

    What used to be Fat Boys Thai restaurant has become a branch of Rosa's. Hopefully the food is just as good. I shall find out soon. We used to eat here all the time. Here and the Clay Oven Indian restaurant which is now sadly shut down and boarded up.

    Tomorrow I get to sample Crossrail for the first time.

    Oh, and on topic: LOL.

    Crossrail has a terrible rep; the Elizabeth Line is brilliant however.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and us a decent human being, but un suited to being pm.
    In a parallel universe, where Stuart Rose got stuck in traffic or something, Cameron won the referendum and became the man who ended Nigel Farage's career.
    Cameron did end former MEP Farage’s career. Winning the referendum was a
    disaster for him. He’s been an irrelevant and empty drum ever since.
    Harsh on Dave.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    So it looks like the only main party leader to openly oppose gay marriage since it was passed in 2013 could be from the SNP.

    Ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Even Cameron and May voted for homosexual marriage as did Tim Farron despite his strong religious faith

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21346694.amp

    So much for Scotland being the left liberal alternative to England. Ha ha ha haha!!!!!

    With your corrupt party heading for an absolute demolition, I would be laughing hysterically as well. Ha ha ha haha!!!
  • Options
    Phil said:

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Oooh now, Gordon was plenty capable of creating his own brand of chaos, but I think he would have won.
    Even if he'd lost, the Tories would have overseen the financial crisis. Something they said needed less regulation than Labour proposed, so it would have been worse under them - Labour would have been back in a few years later.
    You underestimate the consequences of the crisis getting out of control.

    Brown haters (and I'm no fan) choke on the notion that he played a leading role in mitigating its worst effects, but it is hard to dispute, and if it was the only good thing he did it was definitely a biggy.
    Brown also kept us out of the €. The direct effects of the 2008 crash would have been much, much worse without the ability of the BoE to prop up the economy with QE.
    Agreed, Phil.

    My usual line on here is that the Brown and Blair Premierships were kind of like mirror images of each other. Brown was a poor PM with one major achievement to his credit - management of the financial crisis. Blair was a good PM with one major failure - Iraq.

    I take some flak, but not huge amounts.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,681

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and us a decent human being, but un suited to being pm.
    In a parallel universe, where Stuart Rose got stuck in traffic or something, Cameron won the referendum and became the man who ended Nigel Farage's career.
    Not sure. Given how hard the losers (remain) fought after 2016, why assume that if leave had lost the issue would go away?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,472

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Oooh now, Gordon was plenty capable of creating his own brand of chaos, but I think he would have won.
    Even if he'd lost, the Tories would have overseen the financial crisis. Something they said needed less regulation than Labour proposed, so it would have been worse under them - Labour would have been back in a few years later.
    You underestimate the consequences of the crisis getting out of control.

    Brown haters (and I'm no fan) choke on the notion that he played a leading role in mitigating its worst effects, but it is hard to dispute, and if it was the only good thing he did it was definitely a biggy.
    But Brown also significantly contributed to the issue. Even if he did not pull the trigger, he handed the gun to the person who did. You don't laud the person who stems the blood loss, if they're involved with the shooting.

    The severity of the GFC in the UK is down to one thing: Brown's ambition. He wanted to be PM, and undermined Blair to get the job. But that also required electability, so he ran the treasury to get short-term gains, not long-term stability.

    He could have made decisions that reduced the effect of the GFC, but he didn't. Because he wanted to be PM.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,854
    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and is a decent human being, but
    un suited to being pm.
    Agreed, though that recent Blair-Brown documentary does make me wonder - why did Brown do the PFI crap? He was more left wing than Blair - was Brown pushed into PFI or was he the instigator? It’s before my time politically. Just seems so obviously crap in hindsight.
    It made the numbers add up better in the short term. Nothing more or less than that.
  • Options
    maxhmaxh Posts: 890

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Oooh now, Gordon was plenty capable of creating his own brand of chaos, but I think he would have won.
    If we assume much of the chaos was caused by Brexit, then I wonder what Labourites consider would have happened over the last 13 years if Brown had won. Would euroscepticism have disappeared? IMO, no. Would it have further infested their own party? IMO, yes.

    Brown had his five economic tests as a kluge to avoid Euro membership. There's no way those would have lasted until now - especially with no referendum to lance the boil and turn EU membership into less of a party-political issue.

    It's also interesting to consider *who* would be PM now, if Brown had won in 2007. If the next election had been in 2012/3, and Labour had won, I cannot see Brown having stayed PM for a 2017/8 GE - he would have been at, or near the top, of power for two decades. So who would have replaced him as Labour leader / PM? One of the Milibands? Balls/Cooper?
    D Miliband? I still think he was a great loss.
  • Options

    There must be a negative slogan we can make up about Rishi Sunak.

    Something about him being rich

    Get a life man.

    This isn't LabourList.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,458
    edited February 2023
    Phil said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have we an actual quote from Forbes on the gay marriage stuff?

    NEW: Kate Forbes tells @Channel4News she would have voted against equal marriage.

    But as First Minister she will not 'row back on rights that already exist.'

    https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1627745647356006400
    I see she decided to make a window into her own soul publicly available.
    Admirable neither for the sentiment nor political nous.
    This is the kind of response that did for Tim Farron. Is this line likely to work for her any better than it did for him?
    Tim Farron voted for homosexual marriage though, Forbes has made clear she would vote against it.

    Forbes if she won would be the most socially conservative leader of a main political party in the UK since Thatcher, the architect of S28. Even IDS voted for homosexual marriage!

    Though Forbes is even more anti abortion than Thatcher was too. Maggie wanted to reduce abortions but keep it legal and a woman's choice. Forbes has addressed anti abortion, pro life rallies
  • Options

    There must be a negative slogan we can make up about Rishi Sunak.

    Something about him being rich

    This is still the best positive slogan ever;



    He had a lovely smile.
    Because of what the lovely Edwina was doing to his bum hole?
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    People are starting to see that holding together a party of nutters, economic illiterates and fantasists and pretending that they are fit to run a government is not as straightforward as Nicola made it appear. You’d have to be a saint not to laugh.

    Or a Tory of course. The joke went sour on them a while ago.

    The truly depressing thing, the Tory Eurosceptics won and yet still want more, potentially destroying another Tory PM.

    I suspect only nuking Bruxelles will satisfy the ERG.
    I think @Sean_F had them right when he described them like the Scorpion.
  • Options

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Oooh now, Gordon was plenty capable of creating his own brand of chaos, but I think he would have won.
    If we assume much of the chaos was caused by Brexit, then I wonder what Labourites consider would have happened over the last 13 years if Brown had won. Would euroscepticism have disappeared? IMO, no. Would it have further infested their own party? IMO, yes.

    Brown had his five economic tests as a kluge to avoid Euro membership. There's no way those would have lasted until now - especially with no referendum to lance the boil and turn EU membership into less of a party-political issue.

    It's also interesting to consider *who* would be PM now, if Brown had won in 2007. If the next election had been in 2012/3, and Labour had won, I cannot see Brown having stayed PM for a 2017/8 GE - he would have been at, or near the top, of power for two decades. So who would have replaced him as Labour leader / PM? One of the Milibands? Balls/Cooper?
    Given the other shall we say *illiberal views* they tend to have which are very out of place in the Labour party, I doubt we would have welcomed eurosceptics in unlike the Tories.
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 1,962

    Back in my old West London Manor. Ealing Broadway station has certainly been spruced up since I was last here.

    What used to be Fat Boys Thai restaurant has become a branch of Rosa's. Hopefully the food is just as good. I shall find out soon. We used to eat here all the time. Here and the Clay Oven Indian restaurant which is now sadly shut down and boarded up.

    Tomorrow I get to sample Crossrail for the first time.

    Oh, and on topic: LOL.

    Crossrail has a terrible rep; the Elizabeth Line is brilliant however.
    It’s amazing what a bit of re-branding can do. Perhaps we should try the same on HS2?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,120
    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and is a decent human being, but
    un suited to being pm.
    Agreed, though that recent Blair-Brown documentary does make me wonder - why did Brown do the PFI crap? He was more left wing than Blair - was Brown pushed into PFI or was he the instigator? It’s before my time politically. Just seems so obviously crap in hindsight.
    He found PFI as a way to keep to the spending plans. Under Blair, it was all about more money for schools and hospitals - but holding to spending targets. Killing road construction and some other infrastructure projects helped, but there was always more to do.

    PFI was a bit of an addiction in the end - spending that pushed the actual spending into the future. I’ll be good next week…..
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,214

    🔻 EXCLUSIVE: Police forces have been told to prepare for abuse at polling stations when voter identification is introduced at the May local elections.

    @Anoosh_C reports:

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1627673090342764544

    Well done Tories

    It will probably all pass off without any problems. But there has to be a non-zero chance it blow up massively in the Tories' faces.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,906

    There must be a negative slogan we can make up about Rishi Sunak.

    Something about him being rich

    This is still the best positive slogan ever;



    He had a lovely smile.
    Shouldn't the strap line have read "A shag with Edwina Currie"?
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,739
    edited February 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Since the 2019 local elections results of Tories 28% Labour 28% and LD 19% there is actually a swing of 2.5% from LD to Tory on the RedfieldWilton poll. Even if a swing of 13.5% from Tory to Labour

    You win.
    Tonight's Redfield Wilton poll is excellent news for the Tories. Who could dispute that?
  • Options

    Back in my old West London Manor. Ealing Broadway station has certainly been spruced up since I was last here.

    What used to be Fat Boys Thai restaurant has become a branch of Rosa's. Hopefully the food is just as good. I shall find out soon. We used to eat here all the time. Here and the Clay Oven Indian restaurant which is now sadly shut down and boarded up.

    Tomorrow I get to sample Crossrail for the first time.

    Oh, and on topic: LOL.

    Enjoy x
  • Options

    There must be a negative slogan we can make up about Rishi Sunak.

    Something about him being rich

    This is still the best positive slogan ever;



    He had a lovely smile.
    Because of what the lovely Edwina was doing to his bum hole?
    Another evening ruined by a visual mind worm.
  • Options

    🔻 EXCLUSIVE: Police forces have been told to prepare for abuse at polling stations when voter identification is introduced at the May local elections.

    @Anoosh_C reports:

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1627673090342764544

    Well done Tories

    Not having any approved photo ID, last week I applied for the government's new voter authority certificate. The process was fairly painless and quick, though the end result is not a card but a flimsy A4 sheet with the uploaded photo on the back.
    https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 1,962
    edited February 2023

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and is a decent human being, but
    un suited to being pm.
    Agreed, though that recent Blair-Brown documentary does make me wonder - why did Brown do the PFI crap? He was more left wing than Blair - was Brown pushed into PFI or was he the instigator? It’s before my time politically. Just seems so obviously crap in hindsight.
    He found PFI as a way to keep to the spending plans. Under Blair, it was all about more money for schools and hospitals - but holding to spending targets. Killing road construction and some other infrastructure projects helped, but there was always more to do.

    PFI was a bit of an addiction in the end - spending that pushed the actual spending into the future. I’ll be good next week…..
    The great irony of course was that in reality government bond rates were (at the time) on a one-way track to 0% and the government could have borrowed far more & the markets would have happily given it to them & gone out & found more where that came from.

    All that faffing about with PFI & the distortions it caused was for nothing.
  • Options

    There must be a negative slogan we can make up about Rishi Sunak.

    Something about him being rich

    Get a life man.

    This isn't LabourList.
    Feels like it sometimes. But then you and I can remember when it felt more like ConHome.

    Plus ca change, mon vieux?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,675

    DavidL said:

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and us a decent human being, but un suited to being pm.
    In a parallel universe, where Stuart Rose got stuck in traffic or something, Cameron won the referendum and became the man who ended Nigel Farage's career.
    Cameron did end former MEP Farage’s career. Winning the referendum was a
    disaster for him. He’s been an irrelevant and empty drum ever since.
    Harsh on Dave.
    LOL. But not really.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,472

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Oooh now, Gordon was plenty capable of creating his own brand of chaos, but I think he would have won.
    If we assume much of the chaos was caused by Brexit, then I wonder what Labourites consider would have happened over the last 13 years if Brown had won. Would euroscepticism have disappeared? IMO, no. Would it have further infested their own party? IMO, yes.

    Brown had his five economic tests as a kluge to avoid Euro membership. There's no way those would have lasted until now - especially with no referendum to lance the boil and turn EU membership into less of a party-political issue.

    It's also interesting to consider *who* would be PM now, if Brown had won in 2007. If the next election had been in 2012/3, and Labour had won, I cannot see Brown having stayed PM for a 2017/8 GE - he would have been at, or near the top, of power for two decades. So who would have replaced him as Labour leader / PM? One of the Milibands? Balls/Cooper?
    Given the other shall we say *illiberal views* they tend to have which are very out of place in the Labour party, I doubt we would have welcomed eurosceptics in unlike the Tories.
    Labour's view on Europe changed over time - in 1983 they campaigned to leave the EC. There's nothing to say that their view would not have changed again.

    After all, Blair and Brown were fairly firm against the hard left and anti-Semitism. Yet within five years of them leaving, the Labour party was infested with those. Was Corbyn's views - and those of his followers - 'illiberal' ?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,681
    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and is a decent human being, but
    un suited to being pm.
    Agreed, though that recent Blair-Brown documentary does make me wonder - why did Brown do the PFI crap? He was more left wing than Blair - was Brown pushed into PFI or was he the instigator? It’s before my time politically. Just seems so obviously crap in hindsight.
    I’ve always thought it was classic sleight of hand economics. Spend big, unveil huge shiny new hospitals, but dont have it on the balance sheet.I note that Chelsea are accused of doing something similar with their transfer fee strategy (delayed payments to get round FFP rules). I also think it it ties in future governments to higher spending, so is fairly left wing, if not so obviously so.
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 1,962

    🔻 EXCLUSIVE: Police forces have been told to prepare for abuse at polling stations when voter identification is introduced at the May local elections.

    @Anoosh_C reports:

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1627673090342764544

    Well done Tories

    It will probably all pass off without any problems. But there has to be a non-zero chance it blow up massively in the Tories' faces.
    I think some places are going to have massive queues & that’s going to look incredibly undemocratic, especially if it’s (perhaps by chance) concentrated in specific areas.
  • Options
    Phil said:

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Even if he had won, he had nothing left, no big ideas. He wanted to be PM for so long, but had no idea what to do with it.
    His legacy is all around - lovely hospitals and schools bought using PFI and we are still paying the cost. He genuinely believed he had abolished boom and bust, which rather says it all.

    He was and is a decent human being, but
    un suited to being pm.
    Agreed, though that recent Blair-Brown documentary does make me wonder - why did Brown do the PFI crap? He was more left wing than Blair - was Brown pushed into PFI or was he the instigator? It’s before my time politically. Just seems so obviously crap in hindsight.
    He found PFI as a way to keep to the spending plans. Under Blair, it was all about more money for schools and hospitals - but holding to spending targets. Killing road construction and some other infrastructure projects helped, but there was always more to do.

    PFI was a bit of an addiction in the end - spending that pushed the actual spending into the future. I’ll be good next week…..
    The great irony of course was that in reality government bond rates were (at the time) on a one-way track to 0% and the government could have borrowed far more & the markets would have happily given it to them & gone out & found more where that came from.

    All that faffing about with PFI & the distortions it caused was for nothing.
    As Ken Livingstone pointed out at the time, when he lost a big row with the government about letting TfL use the bond market.
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    There must be a negative slogan we can make up about Rishi Sunak.

    Something about him being rich

    Get a life man.

    This isn't LabourList.
    Feels like it sometimes. But then you and I can remember when it felt more like ConHome.

    Plus ca change, mon vieux?
    We can, but at least we had a bit more discussion on the betting.

    You got a big position on GE2024?
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    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    People are starting to see that holding together a party of nutters, economic illiterates and fantasists and pretending that they are fit to run a government is not as straightforward as Nicola made it appear. You’d have to be a saint not to laugh.

    Or a Tory of course. The joke went sour on them a while ago.

    The truly depressing thing, the Tory Eurosceptics won and yet still want more, potentially destroying another Tory PM.

    I suspect only nuking Bruxelles will satisfy the ERG.
    And leave Strasbourg intact?? What sort of feeble surrender is that?
    You joke.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,214
    Phil said:

    🔻 EXCLUSIVE: Police forces have been told to prepare for abuse at polling stations when voter identification is introduced at the May local elections.

    @Anoosh_C reports:

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1627673090342764544

    Well done Tories

    It will probably all pass off without any problems. But there has to be a non-zero chance it blow up massively in the Tories' faces.
    I think some places are going to have massive queues & that’s going to look incredibly undemocratic, especially if it’s (perhaps by chance) concentrated in specific areas.
    Then people will ask the obvious question: 'what problem was the government trying to fix?'
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,149
    HYUFD said:

    Since the 2019 local elections results of Tories 28% Labour 28% and LD 19% there is actually a swing of 2.5% from LD to Tory on the RedfieldWilton poll. Even if a swing of 13.5% from Tory to Labour

    As I pointed out on the last thread, local election voting is always different from the national polls. The Lib Dems and Greens always outperform, Labour underperform, because people are voting on a question other than who do they want to form the next Westminster government.

    I expect actual LD vote share to drop to around 15% and Tory around 25% or even a bit lower due to abstention, so I’m confident we’ll keep most seats won in 2019 and possibly gain a few more. But nothing spectacular. Labour will have a very good night.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,472
    malcolmg said:

    According to YouGov, support for same sex marriage across the UK is at 77% as of 9th January 2023, this number is 79% in the Scotland subsample.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1627747506992947201

    I wonder how has that changed over the last three decades?

    Sadly, the recent hysteria over trans people (see (*)) shows that liberal progress can be reversed.

    (*) https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/brianna-ghey-vigil-disrupted-after-26278191
    what bollox is that re trans losing rights. Can you name a right they have lost.
    You hear people on here stating that trans people should not be able to use women's toilets, something they've been doing for as long as there have been women's toilets. That's a right lost. Worse, they need to use women's toilets in order to transition (live as a woman). Hence the people calling for them not to be able to use women's toilets, are in effect saying they cannot transition.

    Which I fear in many cases reflects their true feelings.

    But this is an old topic and BORING. Let's go onto new topics, such as gay marriages or Brown's brilliance/ineptness as CofE and PM. we've never discussed those before. ;)
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,214

    🔻 EXCLUSIVE: Police forces have been told to prepare for abuse at polling stations when voter identification is introduced at the May local elections.

    @Anoosh_C reports:

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1627673090342764544

    Well done Tories

    Not having any approved photo ID, last week I applied for the government's new voter authority certificate. The process was fairly painless and quick, though the end result is not a card but a flimsy A4 sheet with the uploaded photo on the back.
    https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate
    You're one of a select few then:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/20/low-uptake-for-free-voter-id-scheme-among-elderly-and-young-people-in-uk
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    maxh said:

    Boring Starmer leading the way 😂

    How does 'Boredom You Can Afford' sound as an election slogan?
    They should just bring back the slogans Brown would have used in 2007.

    E.g.





    This one is the one that would do the best IMHO:


    Thanks for dredging these up. Not flash, just Gordon is easily my favourite political slogan of all time. So apt. Still makes me smile.
    Not going for that election was a huge mistake. We'd have avoided all this chaos.
    Oooh now, Gordon was plenty capable of creating his own brand of chaos, but I think he would have won.
    Even if he'd lost, the Tories would have overseen the financial crisis. Something they said needed less regulation than Labour proposed, so it would have been worse under them - Labour would have been back in a few years later.
    You underestimate the consequences of the crisis getting out of control.

    Brown haters (and I'm no fan) choke on the notion that he played a leading role in mitigating its worst effects, but it is hard to dispute, and if it was the only good thing he did it was definitely a biggy.
    But Brown also significantly contributed to the issue. Even if he did not pull the trigger, he handed the gun to the person who did. You don't laud the person who stems the blood loss, if they're involved with the shooting.

    The severity of the GFC in the UK is down to one thing: Brown's ambition. He wanted to be PM, and undermined Blair to get the job. But that also required electability, so he ran the treasury to get short-term gains, not long-term stability.

    He could have made decisions that reduced the effect of the GFC, but he didn't. Because he wanted to be PM.
    Nonsense on stilts. Brown did not cause the GFC, did not exacerbate the GFC, but did help stem the GFC.
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    There must be a negative slogan we can make up about Rishi Sunak.

    Something about him being rich

    This is still the best positive slogan ever;



    He had a lovely smile.
    Because of what the lovely Edwina was doing to his bum hole?
    Another evening ruined by a visual mind worm.
    Sorry but since this tweet from December 2020, I regularly think about Sir John Major getting pegged senseless.


  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,675

    There must be a negative slogan we can make up about Rishi Sunak.

    Something about him being rich

    This is still the best positive slogan ever;



    He had a lovely smile.
    Edwina certainly thought so.
  • Options

    There must be a negative slogan we can make up about Rishi Sunak.

    Something about him being rich

    This is still the best positive slogan ever;



    He had a lovely smile.
    Ranking John Major.
This discussion has been closed.