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A LAB majority now a 62% chance in the GE betting – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Yes, they do. Good luck with that.
    And they have the cheek to look down on their northern neighbours. Canada has a vastly superior quality of life where you can go and buy a pint of milk without getting your head blown off !
    They could teach the Russians a thing or two about how to treat your neighbours though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Trying to think what our equivalent is. Something massively damaging but so ingrained in centuries of British tradition that nobody dare change or ban it, or even tighten regulations.

    Any candidates I can think of: alcohol, smoking, driving, boxing, hunting, waste disposal etc. have all been progressively regulated to reduce harm.
    The NHS.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    Cookie said:

    nico679 said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Trying to think what our equivalent is. Something massively damaging but so ingrained in centuries of British tradition that nobody dare change or ban it, or even tighten regulations.

    Any candidates I can think of: alcohol, smoking, driving, boxing, hunting, waste disposal etc. have all been progressively regulated to reduce harm.
    I can’t think of anything . But that’s because the UK and the rest of Europe is generally inhabited by sane people !
    The NHS. Everyone agrees it doesn't work. But politically impossible to reform.

    Alcohol is slightly different. That us culturally ingrained rather than politically ingrained. Not alcohol, actually, but drunkenness. The British aren't great drunk.
    Regulating alcohol is politicaly quite easy because it appeals to the British keenness to disapprove of others. But it's culturally so ingrained that doing so is largely ineffective.
    Personally, I will be manning tge barricades if you try to introduce New England puritanism towards my drunkenness.
    Interesting to see Clive Woodward bemoaning Twickenham as the world's biggest pub.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Trying to think what our equivalent is. Something massively damaging but so ingrained in centuries of British tradition that nobody dare change or ban it, or even tighten regulations.

    Any candidates I can think of: alcohol, smoking, driving, boxing, hunting, waste disposal etc. have all been progressively regulated to reduce harm.
    In America it is changed, but to loosen. So it's not even a resistance to status quo changing.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,939
    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see the European Super League is back from the tomb

    It is, again, destined for failure because they won’t get any English teams, almost certainly no German teams. PSG also unlikely, and lesser teams in Spain and Italy will be deeply wary

    Which doesn’t leave much

    What European league football needs is consolidation. Benelux should be a league, perhaps with France. Germany should incorporate Austria and Switzerland, and the Nordic countries? Italy would be in an Adriatic league with Croatia, Slovenia etc

    A British Isles league would be UK plus Eire. Maybe a western Med league of Spain and Portugal. Etc

    Then you could regularly see Rangers v Man United. Benfica v Barca. PSG v Ajax

    The Football Association of Ireland is gearing up for the new soccer season in Ireland by releasing the good news that a handful of teams have sold more than 1,000 season tickets for the season ahead. I don't know what level of the English football pyramid that would put the biggest Irish clubs at, probably struggling to cling on in League 2, and it would make the chances of soccer competing against rugby, or GAA, even slimmer.

    It's one thing to have Shamrock Rovers competing against Derry City to become Irish champions, quite another to have them scrapping against Crawley Town and Hartlepool United to stay in the fourth or fifth, or even sixth, tier of a football pyramid for all of Britain and Ireland.
    No, because money would flow into Irish football from England. I can see a new Dublin side competing in the EPL+ with good crowds

    But Ireland is a sideshow anyway

    The big win for British footie would be rescuing Rangers and Celtic. If the Old Firm had regular games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool that would be a new level of excitement for everyone. And then the big Scottish teams could return to European greatness
    "New Dublin side"? Football isn't franchised, which is why so many fans see the Milton Keynes lot as illegitimate.
    Five of the ten teams in the top division of Irish football are based in Dublin. I think a couple of them came close to merging recently. It happened quite a lot in the early years of football, and if they did join a combined league with Britain then that might provide the impetus for some consolidation.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Cookie said:

    nico679 said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Trying to think what our equivalent is. Something massively damaging but so ingrained in centuries of British tradition that nobody dare change or ban it, or even tighten regulations.

    Any candidates I can think of: alcohol, smoking, driving, boxing, hunting, waste disposal etc. have all been progressively regulated to reduce harm.
    I can’t think of anything . But that’s because the UK and the rest of Europe is generally inhabited by sane people !
    The NHS. Everyone agrees it doesn't work. But politically impossible to reform.

    Alcohol is slightly different. That us culturally ingrained rather than politically ingrained. Not alcohol, actually, but drunkenness. The British aren't great drunk.
    Regulating alcohol is politicaly quite easy because it appeals to the British keenness to disapprove of others. But it's culturally so ingrained that doing so is largely ineffective.
    Personally, I will be manning tge barricades if you try to introduce New England puritanism towards my drunkenness.
    Interesting to see Clive Woodward bemoaning Twickenham as the world's biggest pub.
    He wasn’t complaining when 72,000 of the world’s greatest functioning alcoholics were cheering his team on!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,222
    Everyone saying “The NHS”. Yes there’s a political hoodoo over it, rather like Brexit. But

    A. That’s a recent thing
    B. It’s something that helps millions of people each year but could be better. Not quite the same as gun ownership
    C. It does get reformed pretty much constantly
  • I'm not sure many people have realised that getting inflation under control doesn't mean goods will go back to the prices they were in 2019/2020...

    People were barely scraping by before - and with the last decade's pay rises having been particularly poor, I am not sure this is quite the saviour the Tories might think it is...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    What a strange comment. People don't ignore that the second amendment exists at all, they rail against just how widely it is interpreted.

    It isn't some cast iron rule it be interpreted in such a way, that's why it has changed subject to the whims of the politicians in robes.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,703
    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Yes. I can't see that many justifications for gun ownership. The husband in the Epsom private school case was licensed to have one, I understand.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,882
    Foxy said:

    Mr. Leon, does the EPL need to change? It's one of the biggest sports leagues in the world and, I believe, the biggest football league anywhere.

    It sounds like Juventus and Barcelona have overspent and want a new league so they can rake in more cash.

    What the "Big 6" don't like is that the other 14 teams actually give them very tough games a lot of the time, and occasionally there are usurpers like Leicester, Newcastle or Brighton. They want fewer domestic games so they can play in Europe, which they see as more exciting.

    Most of all they want to fossilised that Big 6 so they get European football every year, despite being as pisspoor as Liverpool or Chelsea are at the moment. They are simply arrogant and entitled.
    I started watching some highlights of 'This is Wrexham', and I think it was Rob McElhenney who was amazed that the leagues in 'England' [1] allowed promotion and relegation. To him, it simply shouldn't be allowed. Teams had to stay in the league they were in, and no upstarters would be allowed in.

    [1] Maybe he said England, maybe he didn't. Though explaining to him the issues around Welsh teams playing in the English league system (and vice versa - doesn't Leek Town play in the Welsh league despite technically being in Wales) might be a bit too much.
  • Driver said:

    I would be confident of a Labour majority, but for the fact that the Conservatives are making it impossible for 3+ million mainly younger adults to vote without first making a lot of effort to get additional photo ID just for the purpose of voting.

    Ah, we're up to 3 million plus are we? A couple of days ago, it was "up to 2 million", and that was probably an overestimate.
    OK, I'll replace the 3+ million figure I used, and instead quote the Electoral Commission estimate that 3.5 million people lack suitable ID. Of course that hardly includes any pensioners, because they all have bus passes if they don't have driving licences. But it does include many young and poorer people without driving licences or passports.

    I don't know why I'm bothering to spell all that out. You know it already. And undermining the democratic franchise in a heavily biased way is the only way your party is going to stand an earthly at the next general election. But even then they are going to get trashed, such is the disdain the Conservative Party is held in nowadays.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440

    I'm not sure many people have realised that getting inflation under control doesn't mean goods will go back to the prices they were in 2019/2020...

    People were barely scraping by before - and with the last decade's pay rises having been particularly poor, I am not sure this is quite the saviour the Tories might think it is...

    Indeed. Though the Tories have already started trying to convince us that simply reducing inflation to 3% will make it all tickety-boo. This was noticeable some weeks, perhaps months, back on PB.

    A key issue is that food has gone up about 20% pa in the sort of supermarket and shopping basket the poorer people buy. And as for energy ...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    US military have shot down an airbourne “object” near Alaska.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/10/us-shoots-high-altitude-object-near-alaska/

    Sounds like some sort of an unmanned aircraft of a foreign state - almost certainly China.
  • Foxy said:

    Mr. Leon, does the EPL need to change? It's one of the biggest sports leagues in the world and, I believe, the biggest football league anywhere.

    It sounds like Juventus and Barcelona have overspent and want a new league so they can rake in more cash.

    What the "Big 6" don't like is that the other 14 teams actually give them very tough games a lot of the time, and occasionally there are usurpers like Leicester, Newcastle or Brighton. They want fewer domestic games so they can play in Europe, which they see as more exciting.

    Most of all they want to fossilised that Big 6 so they get European football every year, despite being as pisspoor as Liverpool or Chelsea are at the moment. They are simply arrogant and entitled.
    I started watching some highlights of 'This is Wrexham', and I think it was Rob McElhenney who was amazed that the leagues in 'England' [1] allowed promotion and relegation. To him, it simply shouldn't be allowed. Teams had to stay in the league they were in, and no upstarters would be allowed in.

    [1] Maybe he said England, maybe he didn't. Though explaining to him the issues around Welsh teams playing in the English league system (and vice versa - doesn't Leek Town play in the Welsh league despite technically being in Wales) might be a bit too much.
    Football without the reward of promotion or the risk of relegation is simply a waste of time!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,222
    Sandpit said:

    US military have shot down an airbourne “object” near Alaska.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/10/us-shoots-high-altitude-object-near-alaska/

    Sounds like some sort of an unmanned aircraft of a foreign state - almost certainly China.

    Single-handedly shot down by Sarah Palin.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,939
    Carnyx said:

    I'm not sure many people have realised that getting inflation under control doesn't mean goods will go back to the prices they were in 2019/2020...

    People were barely scraping by before - and with the last decade's pay rises having been particularly poor, I am not sure this is quite the saviour the Tories might think it is...

    Indeed. Though the Tories have already started trying to convince us that simply reducing inflation to 3% will make it all tickety-boo. This was noticeable some weeks, perhaps months, back on PB.

    A key issue is that food has gone up about 20% pa in the sort of supermarket and shopping basket the poorer people buy. And as for energy ...
    If average inflation moderates to ~3% then the prices of some things will very likely fall, and the government would certainly hope that would include food and energy.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Just for the benefit of anyone here, I will repeat my long standing recommendation to the labour party in terms of its policy on Housing.
    - Pick a few areas around London which are not that developed, but have little to no landscape value, and extremely high conservative majorities.
    - Put together a 'housing for the future plan' which involves building a million houses in these areas.
    - Say that you will grant 'planning permission in principle' for a million houses by way of an act of parliament in the first 100 days of office, in these areas
    - Watch the tories go absolutely insane, watch the internal battles, watch all the nimby tendencies in the liberal democrats and the green party come to the fore... for a total niche issue that has no political downside for the labour party, because they never win in these areas anyway.

    I think there is potential for a "New Towns" programme not dissimilar to the postwar ones. The key though is not the houses themselves, but rather employment, hence the need for good transport connections.

    Convert HS2 to a line with a stop every 15-20 miles between London and Brum with a New Town centered on each stop, with road junction links to the near parallel M40 for business parks. The towns themselves constructed to encourage cycling etc as a form of commuting.

    I suspect such towns would be very attractive to people and businesses.
    I was reading an interesting report on Poundbury, it argues that one of its problems is poor connectivity to employment.

    https://www.centreforcities.org/blog/turning-30-has-poundbury-aged-well/

    Essentially the problem with all of this is that building new communities along the lines you are suggesting is a 50 year project, and politics intervenes, so it is hard to see it ever happening.

    My idea for the labour party is not a serious solution to the housing and planning problems, it is just an equally stupid response to the policies devised in this area by the tories over the last decade.

    The postwar "New Towns" were not designed as commuter towns, but rather as integrated communities with shopping centres and employment built in.

    Not all of these schemes worked, not least because the decline of manufacturing industry meant that the work was ephemeral, and not well suited to the skill set of the inhabitants, largely from working class communities in inner city slums.

    The concept is one worth revisiting for the 21st century.
    The interesting thing in that Poundbury article, is that they appear to base the success or failure of such a project, purely on people abandoning their cars. Trying to get people out of cars has been the utopia of town planners, ever since people started buying them!

    If your town has everything such that families only need one car rather than two, then it’s more of a city than a town. People will still drive to the supermarket and the larger shops.

    Higher-density developments are of course a better use of land, and should be encouraged. It’s just weird to see everyone obsessed with getting rid of something that many people see as aspirational.
    Trouble is that, whilst me having a car is aspirational, everyone else using cars makes my life worse.

    And it looks like there isn't a stable solution. The more you provide the road and parking space for cars, the more essential cars become, because everything that makes life good has to be further apart. And a lot of the
    infrastructure cars need to work is fairly ugly.

    There's also a reasonable case from the numbers that English cities are unproductive because they're so car based. The low density caps the gains that you should get from agglomeration.

    We may want to drive cars and live in detached houses in suburbia. But are we prepared to be poorer as a result? Lots of us probably are, but only in an "I'm all right Jack" way.
    What needs to happen is for the planners to accept that every house will have two cars, and not want to be stuck in traffic, then work from there to design their town, with features such as grade-separated walkways and places to park cars close to amenities. Many European towns and cities build huge parking areas underground, for example.
    It's entirely possible to design cities so that households only need one car, max. Very few households in our bit of London have two cars, for instance, because we have great public transport so that nobody drives to work. Kids all walk to school too, or take the bus or train. The car is for shopping, weekend trips, holidays and taking the kids to activities. We need to build more high density cities with good public transport and amenities nearby, not ugly sprawl designed around the car.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,882
    Sandpit said:

    US military have shot down an airbourne “object” near Alaska.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/10/us-shoots-high-altitude-object-near-alaska/

    Sounds like some sort of an unmanned aircraft of a foreign state - almost certainly China.

    All this does worry me, as did the start of the Ukrainian war last year.
    We do seem to be drifting back into very dangerous waters.
    War in Europe, and a slowly escalating tension between China and the United States.

    Fallout is supposed to be a game, and Threads a warning.
    Seems some people thing that both were documentaries......
  • kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Yes. I can't see that many justifications for gun ownership. The husband in the Epsom private school case was licensed to have one, I understand.
    What’s a chap to do if one’s wife is a high flier though?


  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    Sandpit said:

    US military have shot down an airbourne “object” near Alaska.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/10/us-shoots-high-altitude-object-near-alaska/

    Sounds like some sort of an unmanned aircraft of a foreign state - almost certainly China.

    All this does worry me, as did the start of the Ukrainian war last year.
    We do seem to be drifting back into very dangerous waters.
    War in Europe, and a slowly escalating tension between China and the United States.

    Fallout is supposed to be a game, and Threads a warning.
    Seems some people thing that both were documentaries......
    If only things could go back to when everything was safe and there was nothing at all to worry about.

    Remind me when that was?
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,882

    Foxy said:

    Mr. Leon, does the EPL need to change? It's one of the biggest sports leagues in the world and, I believe, the biggest football league anywhere.

    It sounds like Juventus and Barcelona have overspent and want a new league so they can rake in more cash.

    What the "Big 6" don't like is that the other 14 teams actually give them very tough games a lot of the time, and occasionally there are usurpers like Leicester, Newcastle or Brighton. They want fewer domestic games so they can play in Europe, which they see as more exciting.

    Most of all they want to fossilised that Big 6 so they get European football every year, despite being as pisspoor as Liverpool or Chelsea are at the moment. They are simply arrogant and entitled.
    I started watching some highlights of 'This is Wrexham', and I think it was Rob McElhenney who was amazed that the leagues in 'England' [1] allowed promotion and relegation. To him, it simply shouldn't be allowed. Teams had to stay in the league they were in, and no upstarters would be allowed in.

    [1] Maybe he said England, maybe he didn't. Though explaining to him the issues around Welsh teams playing in the English league system (and vice versa - doesn't Leek Town play in the Welsh league despite technically being in Wales) might be a bit too much.
    Football without the reward of promotion or the risk of relegation is simply a waste of time!
    To us, but there are probably huge number of 'fans' the world over who are simply glory hunters and would pay to watch Man City v Liverpool every week, even though of course the whole thing would just become a pointless exercise.

    WWE is still massive in the United States, despite all the 'matches' being rigged beforehand and the outcomes known long before.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Trying to think what our equivalent is. Something massively damaging but so ingrained in centuries of British tradition that nobody dare change or ban it, or even tighten regulations.

    Any candidates I can think of: alcohol, smoking, driving, boxing, hunting, waste disposal etc. have all been progressively regulated to reduce harm.
    As the Spectator pointed out, very wisely, it is the NHS

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-there-a-british-version-of-america-s-attachment-to-guns/
  • kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Yes. I can't see that many justifications for gun ownership. The husband in the Epsom private school case was licensed to have one, I understand.
    What’s a chap to do if one’s wife is a high flier though?


    The Mail is such an enigma to me. Hates women. Read by women.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,222
    More Lee Anderson trolling today, this time on net zero (where’s he’s out of touch with the vast majority even of 2019 Tory voters).

    If Labour have their wits about them I think they can use the combination of him, Braverman and Raab to create a fear/disgust factor at the next election in the same way the Tories successfully did last time with Corbyn.

    Labour need to keep reminding voters that the next election isn’t in the bag and if they don’t turn out and vote they could face 5 more years of the likes of Anderson.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    🐎 Six shooter Saturday

    Cheltenham is on its way, they obviously feel Love Envoi needs a run out before winning the Mares Hurdle in just 31 days time. if her season is about peaking for mares hurdle, I’m Napoleon today.

    13:50 Newbury - Annual Invictus

    2:05 Warwick - Love Envoi - NAP

    15:00 Newbury - Mortlach

    15:35 Newbury - Highway One O Two

    Not this afternoon ya Josephine
    Don't be so mean
    I like the way you look
    But now I've got a date with horses and rugby

    Witty. Resolute. Provocative. That’s my epitaph right there. 😄
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,882
    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    US military have shot down an airbourne “object” near Alaska.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/10/us-shoots-high-altitude-object-near-alaska/

    Sounds like some sort of an unmanned aircraft of a foreign state - almost certainly China.

    All this does worry me, as did the start of the Ukrainian war last year.
    We do seem to be drifting back into very dangerous waters.
    War in Europe, and a slowly escalating tension between China and the United States.

    Fallout is supposed to be a game, and Threads a warning.
    Seems some people thing that both were documentaries......
    If only things could go back to when everything was safe and there was nothing at all to worry about.

    Remind me when that was?
    Personally, I think the 1990s seemed to me to be the least worldwide tension, although of course there was still a war in the former Yugoslavia (and no doubt constant ongoing wars in Africa).

    It seems recently to be almost as bad as 1983 (although I say 'almost' - 1983 to me was the closest to worldwide annahilation we've yet come).
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,222
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Trying to think what our equivalent is. Something massively damaging but so ingrained in centuries of British tradition that nobody dare change or ban it, or even tighten regulations.

    Any candidates I can think of: alcohol, smoking, driving, boxing, hunting, waste disposal etc. have all been progressively regulated to reduce harm.
    As the Spectator pointed out, very wisely, it is the NHS

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-there-a-british-version-of-america-s-attachment-to-guns/
    See my earlier response to others’ suggestions of this. There’s definitely a problem with the veneration it gets, but it’s qualitatively different from gun rights.

    US equivalent of our over-protective approach to NHS structures would be their love of the automobile and driving. Both have been incredibly positive for human experience but both have become pickled into a rigid dogma.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,222

    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    US military have shot down an airbourne “object” near Alaska.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/10/us-shoots-high-altitude-object-near-alaska/

    Sounds like some sort of an unmanned aircraft of a foreign state - almost certainly China.

    All this does worry me, as did the start of the Ukrainian war last year.
    We do seem to be drifting back into very dangerous waters.
    War in Europe, and a slowly escalating tension between China and the United States.

    Fallout is supposed to be a game, and Threads a warning.
    Seems some people thing that both were documentaries......
    If only things could go back to when everything was safe and there was nothing at all to worry about.

    Remind me when that was?
    Personally, I think the 1990s seemed to me to be the least worldwide tension, although of course there was still a war in the former Yugoslavia (and no doubt constant ongoing wars in Africa).

    It seems recently to be almost as bad as 1983 (although I say 'almost' - 1983 to me was the closest to worldwide annahilation we've yet come).
    Yes, the existential fear ended in 1989 and returned on 11/09/2001. The long 1990s.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    edited February 2023
    Sandpit said:

    US military have shot down an airbourne “object” near Alaska.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/10/us-shoots-high-altitude-object-near-alaska/

    Sounds like some sort of an unmanned aircraft of a foreign state - almost certainly China.

    Let’s be serious here for a moment. You havn’t been paying any attention at all have you.

    It belonged to the Alien Reptiles, and now the useless trigger happy cowboys have got us in war with them 🤬

  • What’s a chap to do if one’s wife is a high flier though?

    https://thechap.co.uk/chap-olympiad/
  • TimS said:

    More Lee Anderson trolling today, this time on net zero (where’s he’s out of touch with the vast majority even of 2019 Tory voters).

    If Labour have their wits about them I think they can use the combination of him, Braverman and Raab to create a fear/disgust factor at the next election in the same way the Tories successfully did last time with Corbyn.

    Labour need to keep reminding voters that the next election isn’t in the bag and if they don’t turn out and vote they could face 5 more years of the likes of Anderson.

    The trick is going to be to be smart about it. Part of the point of the new right is that they're trolls, getting the outraged reaction is what they want. It makes them feel alive and (from a certain perspective) makes their opponents look foolish.

    It can be beaten (see Trump vs. Clinton and Trump vs. Biden) but it needs political nous, which probably includes ignoring some battles to win the war.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,170
    edited February 2023
    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Trying to think what our equivalent is. Something massively damaging but so ingrained in centuries of British tradition that nobody dare change or ban it, or even tighten regulations.

    Brexit. Ingrained after centuries of Euroscepticism.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Trying to think what our equivalent is. Something massively damaging but so ingrained in centuries of British tradition that nobody dare change or ban it, or even tighten regulations.

    Any candidates I can think of: alcohol, smoking, driving, boxing, hunting, waste disposal etc. have all been progressively regulated to reduce harm.
    As the Spectator pointed out, very wisely, it is the NHS

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-there-a-british-version-of-america-s-attachment-to-guns/
    Ironically it’s the Spectator that’s part of the problem. That right wing cozy club of eloquent bullshitters and blaggers that get by on connections rather than talent and crowd out true entrepreneurialism. Get rid of that and the nation can progress.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    TimS said:

    More Lee Anderson trolling today, this time on net zero (where’s he’s out of touch with the vast majority even of 2019 Tory voters).

    If Labour have their wits about them I think they can use the combination of him, Braverman and Raab to create a fear/disgust factor at the next election in the same way the Tories successfully did last time with Corbyn.

    Labour need to keep reminding voters that the next election isn’t in the bag and if they don’t turn out and vote they could face 5 more years of the likes of Anderson.

    My Tory member mum loves Braverman and Raab. You sure your not displaying all your biases?
  • The Nutty Putty (formally the Tories) can be defeated, just look to what Biden and Oz Labor have done.

    Labour is playing the correct game, they just need to stay focussed.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    US military have shot down an airbourne “object” near Alaska.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/10/us-shoots-high-altitude-object-near-alaska/

    Sounds like some sort of an unmanned aircraft of a foreign state - almost certainly China.

    All this does worry me, as did the start of the Ukrainian war last year.
    We do seem to be drifting back into very dangerous waters.
    War in Europe, and a slowly escalating tension between China and the United States.

    Fallout is supposed to be a game, and Threads a warning.
    Seems some people thing that both were documentaries......
    If only things could go back to when everything was safe and there was nothing at all to worry about.

    Remind me when that was?
    Personally, I think the 1990s seemed to me to be the least worldwide tension, although of course there was still a war in the former Yugoslavia (and no doubt constant ongoing wars in Africa).

    It seems recently to be almost as bad as 1983 (although I say 'almost' - 1983 to me was the closest to worldwide annahilation we've yet come).
    I seem to remember that in the 1990s there was also an invasion of Kuwait, which resulted in something that for a while was known as the Gulf War.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Trying to think what our equivalent is. Something massively damaging but so ingrained in centuries of British tradition that nobody dare change or ban it, or even tighten regulations.

    Any candidates I can think of: alcohol, smoking, driving, boxing, hunting, waste disposal etc. have all been progressively regulated to reduce harm.
    As the Spectator pointed out, very wisely, it is the NHS

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-there-a-british-version-of-america-s-attachment-to-guns/
    See my earlier response to others’ suggestions of this. There’s definitely a problem with the veneration it gets, but it’s qualitatively different from gun rights.

    US equivalent of our over-protective approach to NHS structures would be their love of the automobile and driving. Both have been incredibly positive for human experience but both have become pickled into a rigid dogma.
    Yes, that’s a good analogy. Possibly better. Less clickbaity tho
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    The other addiction that holds this country back is nostalgia. Left or right, choose your poison, but myths about the sixties or ww2 make us fat and lazy. We are quite content to rest on the laurels of others.
  • DJ41aDJ41a Posts: 174
    edited February 2023
    Great write-up on the Alaska UFO story in the Jerusalem Post:

    "[Pentagon spokesperson Brig Gen Patrick] Ryder said American pilots who flew alongside the latest object before it was downed determined that no human was aboard. He added it was incapable of maneuvering and did not resemble an airplane."

    The object is said to have travelled over the land of Alaska before it flew out over the coast. There is no public information about what country it came from or whether it was earlier seen entering US airspace.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,703

    kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Yes. I can't see that many justifications for gun ownership. The husband in the Epsom private school case was licensed to have one, I understand.
    What’s a chap to do if one’s wife is a high flier though?


    Yes I know you shouldn't leap to conclusions but that was my very first thought when the story broke. One of those.
  • TimS said:

    More Lee Anderson trolling today, this time on net zero (where’s he’s out of touch with the vast majority even of 2019 Tory voters).

    If Labour have their wits about them I think they can use the combination of him, Braverman and Raab to create a fear/disgust factor at the next election in the same way the Tories successfully did last time with Corbyn.

    Labour need to keep reminding voters that the next election isn’t in the bag and if they don’t turn out and vote they could face 5 more years of the likes of Anderson.

    My Tory member mum loves Braverman and Raab. You sure your not displaying all your biases?
    That's the challenge. Braverman, in particular, says and does things that have a corrosive effect on the nation. The line from her rhetoric to the riot in Liverpool is short and should be shameful.

    But in the persuasive part of politics, just saying that does more harm than good. It requires real and rare political talent to unpick populism.

    You see the same with measures to make driving less necessary and less convenient;

    The 15 minute city conspiracy stuff is clearly silly. But I wouldn't underestimate its potency, tackling it which will require more than just 'you're wrong'. Among particular group of voters we found a very strong link between driving and people's sense of personal freedom...

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1624010635477495808
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    DJ41a said:

    Great write-up on the Alaska UFO story in the Jerusalem Post:

    "[Pentagon spokesperson Brig Gen Patrick] Ryder said American pilots who flew alongside the latest object before it was downed determined that no human was aboard. He added it was incapable of maneuvering and did not resemble an airplane."

    The object is said to have travelled over the land of Alaska before it flew out over the coast. There is no public information about what country it came from or whether it was earlier seen entering US airspace.

    If it was a 1962 Ford Anglia 105E then the United States are finished, they couldn’t win that war.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    edited February 2023

    TimS said:

    More Lee Anderson trolling today, this time on net zero (where’s he’s out of touch with the vast majority even of 2019 Tory voters).

    If Labour have their wits about them I think they can use the combination of him, Braverman and Raab to create a fear/disgust factor at the next election in the same way the Tories successfully did last time with Corbyn.

    Labour need to keep reminding voters that the next election isn’t in the bag and if they don’t turn out and vote they could face 5 more years of the likes of Anderson.

    My Tory member mum loves Braverman and Raab. You sure your not displaying all your biases?
    That's the challenge. Braverman, in particular, says and does things that have a corrosive effect on the nation. The line from her rhetoric to the riot in Liverpool is short and should be shameful.

    But in the persuasive part of politics, just saying that does more harm than good. It requires real and rare political talent to unpick populism.

    You see the same with measures to make driving less necessary and less convenient;

    The 15 minute city conspiracy stuff is clearly silly. But I wouldn't underestimate its potency, tackling it which will require more than just 'you're wrong'. Among particular group of voters we found a very strong link between driving and people's sense of personal freedom...

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1624010635477495808
    Brilliant example, relating our liberties and freedom to driving one of our cars where and whenever we damn well like.
    If Braverman is standing up for us on that, then we are all for Braverman.
    Lesson learned.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Just for the benefit of anyone here, I will repeat my long standing recommendation to the labour party in terms of its policy on Housing.
    - Pick a few areas around London which are not that developed, but have little to no landscape value, and extremely high conservative majorities.
    - Put together a 'housing for the future plan' which involves building a million houses in these areas.
    - Say that you will grant 'planning permission in principle' for a million houses by way of an act of parliament in the first 100 days of office, in these areas
    - Watch the tories go absolutely insane, watch the internal battles, watch all the nimby tendencies in the liberal democrats and the green party come to the fore... for a total niche issue that has no political downside for the labour party, because they never win in these areas anyway.

    I think there is potential for a "New Towns" programme not dissimilar to the postwar ones. The key though is not the houses themselves, but rather employment, hence the need for good transport connections.

    Convert HS2 to a line with a stop every 15-20 miles between London and Brum with a New Town centered on each stop, with road junction links to the near parallel M40 for business parks. The towns themselves constructed to encourage cycling etc as a form of commuting.

    I suspect such towns would be very attractive to people and businesses.
    I was reading an interesting report on Poundbury, it argues that one of its problems is poor connectivity to employment.

    https://www.centreforcities.org/blog/turning-30-has-poundbury-aged-well/

    Essentially the problem with all of this is that building new communities along the lines you are suggesting is a 50 year project, and politics intervenes, so it is hard to see it ever happening.

    My idea for the labour party is not a serious solution to the housing and planning problems, it is just an equally stupid response to the policies devised in this area by the tories over the last decade.

    The postwar "New Towns" were not designed as commuter towns, but rather as integrated communities with shopping centres and employment built in.

    Not all of these schemes worked, not least because the decline of manufacturing industry meant that the work was ephemeral, and not well suited to the skill set of the inhabitants, largely from working class communities in inner city slums.

    The concept is one worth revisiting for the 21st century.
    The interesting thing in that Poundbury article, is that they appear to base the success or failure of such a project, purely on people abandoning their cars. Trying to get people out of cars has been the utopia of town planners, ever since people started buying them!

    If your town has everything such that families only need one car rather than two, then it’s more of a city than a town. People will still drive to the supermarket and the larger shops.

    Higher-density developments are of course a better use of land, and should be encouraged. It’s just weird to see everyone obsessed with getting rid of something that many people see as aspirational.
    Trouble is that, whilst me having a car is aspirational, everyone else using cars makes my life worse.

    And it looks like there isn't a stable solution. The more you provide the road and parking space for cars, the more essential cars become, because everything that makes life good has to be further apart. And a lot of the
    infrastructure cars need to work is fairly ugly.

    There's also a reasonable case from the numbers that English cities are unproductive because they're so car based. The low density caps the gains that you should get from agglomeration.

    We may want to drive cars and live in detached houses in suburbia. But are we prepared to be poorer as a result? Lots of us probably are, but only in an "I'm all right Jack" way.
    What needs to happen is for the planners to accept that every house will have two cars, and not want to be stuck in traffic, then work from there to design their town, with features such as grade-separated walkways and places to park cars close to amenities. Many European towns and cities build huge parking areas underground, for example.
    It's entirely possible to design cities so that households only need one car, max. Very few households in our bit of London have two cars, for instance, because we have great public transport so that nobody drives to work. Kids all walk to school too, or take the bus or train. The car is for shopping, weekend trips, holidays and taking the kids to activities. We need to build more high density cities with good public transport and amenities nearby, not ugly sprawl designed around the car.
    Waltham Forest is an interesting example. Much of it is pre car housing (with no parking) mixed up with car led sprawl and so the whole Borough is largely crammed up with traffic jams and cars dominating everywhere. The Council have decided that they are going to move on from cars and will become a walking and cycling Borough, and there will be 15 minute neighbourhoods where you can get whatever it is you need. And... there will be no parking in new developments and residents of new build flats and houses etc will be banned from ever applying for residential on street parking permits. It is quite amazing that this works politically, but it seems to.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Trying to think what our equivalent is. Something massively damaging but so ingrained in centuries of British tradition that nobody dare change or ban it, or even tighten regulations.

    Any candidates I can think of: alcohol, smoking, driving, boxing, hunting, waste disposal etc. have all been progressively regulated to reduce harm.
    As the Spectator pointed out, very wisely, it is the NHS

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-there-a-british-version-of-america-s-attachment-to-guns/
    Whilst I agree that the NHS is too difficult to properly look and reform in serious ways, I also agree with the premise of the question being about something ingrained for centuries of tradition and culture means it does not apply.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Jonathan said:

    The other addiction that holds this country back is nostalgia. Left or right, choose your poison, but myths about the sixties or ww2 make us fat and lazy. We are quite content to rest on the laurels of others.

    I don't think nostalgia is a peculiarly British problem, but anecdotally it does feel as though we have little sense of what positively want, and so are very conservsative and seek to just revisit old battles and policies, with only tokenistic tweaks otherwise even as we shy away from anything dramatic.
  • DJ41aDJ41a Posts: 174
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Trying to think what our equivalent is. Something massively damaging but so ingrained in centuries of British tradition that nobody dare change or ban it, or even tighten regulations.

    Any candidates I can think of: alcohol, smoking, driving, boxing, hunting, waste disposal etc. have all been progressively regulated to reduce harm.
    As the Spectator pointed out, very wisely, it is the NHS

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-there-a-british-version-of-america-s-attachment-to-guns/
    See my earlier response to others’ suggestions of this. There’s definitely a problem with the veneration it gets, but it’s qualitatively different from gun rights.

    US equivalent of our over-protective approach to NHS structures would be their love of the automobile and driving. Both have been incredibly positive for human experience but both have become pickled into a rigid dogma.
    Agreed. And if the US taxed car fuel sensibly they could have a quarter-way decent state health service.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    The other addiction that holds this country back is nostalgia. Left or right, choose your poison, but myths about the sixties or ww2 make us fat and lazy. We are quite content to rest on the laurels of others.

    I don't think nostalgia is a peculiarly British problem, but anecdotally it does feel as though we have little sense of what positively want, and so are very conservsative and seek to just revisit old battles and policies, with only tokenistic tweaks otherwise even as we shy away from anything dramatic.
    Nostalgia is clearly not unique to Britain, but we are drunk on it. It’s everywhere. Brexit was an exercise in nostalgia. Scottish independence is an exercise in nostalgia. Corbyn was an exercise in nostalgia.
  • 🐎 Six shooter Saturday

    Cheltenham is on its way, they obviously feel Love Envoi needs a run out before winning the Mares Hurdle in just 31 days time. if her season is about peaking for mares hurdle, I’m Napoleon today.

    13:50 Newbury - Annual Invictus

    2:05 Warwick - Love Envoi - NAP

    15:00 Newbury - Mortlach

    15:35 Newbury - Highway One O Two

    Not this afternoon ya Josephine
    Don't be so mean
    I like the way you look
    But now I've got a date with horses and rugby

    Witty. Resolute. Provocative. That’s my epitaph right there. 😄

    Erm, there are only four selections in your six-shooter but what a range of prices! 8/13, 7/1, 25/1 and 50/1. Good luck.
  • DJ41aDJ41a Posts: 174
    edited February 2023

    kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Yes. I can't see that many justifications for gun ownership. The husband in the Epsom private school case was licensed to have one, I understand.
    What’s a chap to do if one’s wife is a high flier though?


    What's a chap to do?
    Call the police if she beats him up?
    She was once arrested for assaulting him. The police get called out to domestics all the time but it's rare for them to arrest someone when they attend. Perhaps they thought a "gypsy warning" wouldn't work on her.
    We've no idea what went on behind the net curtains.
    (Whatever it was, it was no excuse for doing a Goebbels though.)
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see the European Super League is back from the tomb

    It is, again, destined for failure because they won’t get any English teams, almost certainly no German teams. PSG also unlikely, and lesser teams in Spain and Italy will be deeply wary

    Which doesn’t leave much

    What European league football needs is consolidation. Benelux should be a league, perhaps with France. Germany should incorporate Austria and Switzerland, and the Nordic countries? Italy would be in an Adriatic league with Croatia, Slovenia etc

    A British Isles league would be UK plus Eire. Maybe a western Med league of Spain and Portugal. Etc

    Then you could regularly see Rangers v Man United. Benfica v Barca. PSG v Ajax

    The Football Association of Ireland is gearing up for the new soccer season in Ireland by releasing the good news that a handful of teams have sold more than 1,000 season tickets for the season ahead. I don't know what level of the English football pyramid that would put the biggest Irish clubs at, probably struggling to cling on in League 2, and it would make the chances of soccer competing against rugby, or GAA, even slimmer.

    It's one thing to have Shamrock Rovers competing against Derry City to become Irish champions, quite another to have them scrapping against Crawley Town and Hartlepool United to stay in the fourth or fifth, or even sixth, tier of a football pyramid for all of Britain and Ireland.
    No, because money would flow into Irish football from England. I can see a new Dublin side competing in the EPL+ with good crowds

    But Ireland is a sideshow anyway

    The big win for British footie would be rescuing Rangers and Celtic. If the Old Firm had regular games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool that would be a new level of excitement for everyone. And then the big Scottish teams could return to European greatness
    A brand new Scottish team got to a big European final just a year ago .
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    .

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see the European Super League is back from the tomb

    It is, again, destined for failure because they won’t get any English teams, almost certainly no German teams. PSG also unlikely, and lesser teams in Spain and Italy will be deeply wary

    Which doesn’t leave much

    What European league football needs is consolidation. Benelux should be a league, perhaps with France. Germany should incorporate Austria and Switzerland, and the Nordic countries? Italy would be in an Adriatic league with Croatia, Slovenia etc

    A British Isles league would be UK plus Eire. Maybe a western Med league of Spain and Portugal. Etc

    Then you could regularly see Rangers v Man United. Benfica v Barca. PSG v Ajax

    The Football Association of Ireland is gearing up for the new soccer season in Ireland by releasing the good news that a handful of teams have sold more than 1,000 season tickets for the season ahead. I don't know what level of the English football pyramid that would put the biggest Irish clubs at, probably struggling to cling on in League 2, and it would make the chances of soccer competing against rugby, or GAA, even slimmer.

    It's one thing to have Shamrock Rovers competing against Derry City to become Irish champions, quite another to have them scrapping against Crawley Town and Hartlepool United to stay in the fourth or fifth, or even sixth, tier of a football pyramid for all of Britain and Ireland.
    No, because money would flow into Irish football from England. I can see a new Dublin side competing in the EPL+ with good crowds

    But Ireland is a sideshow anyway

    The big win for British footie would be rescuing Rangers and Celtic. If the Old Firm had regular games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool that would be a new level of excitement for everyone. And then the big Scottish teams could return to European greatness
    "New Dublin side"? Football isn't franchised, which is why so many fans see the Milton Keynes lot as illegitimate.
    They’re not Illegitimate.

    They are not a franchise

    AFC Wimbledon fucked over Kingstonian FC as well.
    You mis-spelled "Chelsea".

    And I said "many fans", not "all". Some don't quite understand how damgerous the MK franchising was to the pyramid.
    I really didn’t mis-spell anything.

    MK Dons are not a franchise. There is no such thing as franchising in soccer and if there was so what.
    Then you're completely clueless about what actually happened between AFCW and Kingstonian - as clueless as you are about the Milton Keynes franchise and the risk it poses to football.
    I’m really not. I’m aware of what happened, I’m aware of the deal with the Khosla’s who used to own K’s and the ‘help’ offered to K’s at the time from them.

    A lot of which was covered on the old Kingstonian forum at the time. Indeed AFCFC fans used to drop by to demand compliance and gratitude from the ungrateful Ks serfs for daring to complain.

    Indeed I used to go down K’s regularly at the time and went to the SSC final where the AFC fans abused K’s fans on the way to the game and on the way out when they were losing.

    There is no love for AFC FC at K’s to this day. Rightly so.

    The Khosla’s were to K’s what Koppel was to Wimbledon yet AFCFC bought the ground from them while the K’s trust were trying to get funding to do the same and presented it as an act of benevolence. It wasn’t. So fuck Wimbledon.
    I mean, you write that just as if I wasn't there at the same time. The absolutely critical word in your comment is "trying".
    They would have achieved it too. The funding was being put in place. The salient point was AFCFC bought the ground before K’s had a chance to get the funding. The Ks trust were fucked over.

    Wimbledon fans were supposedly so anti franchising but set theirs up in Kingstonian. All the reasons they gave against a move to MK applied to a move to Kingston.



    There's a slight difference of distance. Plus they are not in Kingston anymore.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    TimS said:

    More Lee Anderson trolling today, this time on net zero (where’s he’s out of touch with the vast majority even of 2019 Tory voters).

    If Labour have their wits about them I think they can use the combination of him, Braverman and Raab to create a fear/disgust factor at the next election in the same way the Tories successfully did last time with Corbyn.

    Labour need to keep reminding voters that the next election isn’t in the bag and if they don’t turn out and vote they could face 5 more years of the likes of Anderson.

    My Tory member mum loves Braverman and Raab. You sure your not displaying all your biases?
    That's the challenge. Braverman, in particular, says and does things that have a corrosive effect on the nation. The line from her rhetoric to the riot in Liverpool is short and should be shameful.

    But in the persuasive part of politics, just saying that does more harm than good. It requires real and rare political talent to unpick populism.

    You see the same with measures to make driving less necessary and less convenient;

    The 15 minute city conspiracy stuff is clearly silly. But I wouldn't underestimate its potency, tackling it which will require more than just 'you're wrong'. Among particular group of voters we found a very strong link between driving and people's sense of personal freedom...

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1624010635477495808
    Indeed. You might want to try and design a new city (a city, not a town) around people not having cars, but in the real world two people per household work, people change jobs more regularly than they change houses, and not everything is doable by public transport, especially once outside of a small city centre.

    Trying to change existing cities, to disincentivise car use but without a massive investment in public transport, is politically toxic.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    The other addiction that holds this country back is nostalgia. Left or right, choose your poison, but myths about the sixties or ww2 make us fat and lazy. We are quite content to rest on the laurels of others.

    I don't think nostalgia is a peculiarly British problem, but anecdotally it does feel as though we have little sense of what positively want, and so are very conservsative and seek to just revisit old battles and policies, with only tokenistic tweaks otherwise even as we shy away from anything dramatic.
    Nostalgia is clearly not unique to Britain, but we are drunk on it. It’s everywhere. Brexit was an exercise in nostalgia. Scottish independence is an exercise in nostalgia. Corbyn was an exercise in nostalgia.
    I don't think any of those things are exercises in nostalgia.
  • darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Just for the benefit of anyone here, I will repeat my long standing recommendation to the labour party in terms of its policy on Housing.
    - Pick a few areas around London which are not that developed, but have little to no landscape value, and extremely high conservative majorities.
    - Put together a 'housing for the future plan' which involves building a million houses in these areas.
    - Say that you will grant 'planning permission in principle' for a million houses by way of an act of parliament in the first 100 days of office, in these areas
    - Watch the tories go absolutely insane, watch the internal battles, watch all the nimby tendencies in the liberal democrats and the green party come to the fore... for a total niche issue that has no political downside for the labour party, because they never win in these areas anyway.

    I think there is potential for a "New Towns" programme not dissimilar to the postwar ones. The key though is not the houses themselves, but rather employment, hence the need for good transport connections.

    Convert HS2 to a line with a stop every 15-20 miles between London and Brum with a New Town centered on each stop, with road junction links to the near parallel M40 for business parks. The towns themselves constructed to encourage cycling etc as a form of commuting.

    I suspect such towns would be very attractive to people and businesses.
    I was reading an interesting report on Poundbury, it argues that one of its problems is poor connectivity to employment.

    https://www.centreforcities.org/blog/turning-30-has-poundbury-aged-well/

    Essentially the problem with all of this is that building new communities along the lines you are suggesting is a 50 year project, and politics intervenes, so it is hard to see it ever happening.

    My idea for the labour party is not a serious solution to the housing and planning problems, it is just an equally stupid response to the policies devised in this area by the tories over the last decade.

    The postwar "New Towns" were not designed as commuter towns, but rather as integrated communities with shopping centres and employment built in.

    Not all of these schemes worked, not least because the decline of manufacturing industry meant that the work was ephemeral, and not well suited to the skill set of the inhabitants, largely from working class communities in inner city slums.

    The concept is one worth revisiting for the 21st century.
    The interesting thing in that Poundbury article, is that they appear to base the success or failure of such a project, purely on people abandoning their cars. Trying to get people out of cars has been the utopia of town planners, ever since people started buying them!

    If your town has everything such that families only need one car rather than two, then it’s more of a city than a town. People will still drive to the supermarket and the larger shops.

    Higher-density developments are of course a better use of land, and should be encouraged. It’s just weird to see everyone obsessed with getting rid of something that many people see as aspirational.
    Trouble is that, whilst me having a car is aspirational, everyone else using cars makes my life worse.

    And it looks like there isn't a stable solution. The more you provide the road and parking space for cars, the more essential cars become, because everything that makes life good has to be further apart. And a lot of the
    infrastructure cars need to work is fairly ugly.

    There's also a reasonable case from the numbers that English cities are unproductive because they're so car based. The low density caps the gains that you should get from agglomeration.

    We may want to drive cars and live in detached houses in suburbia. But are we prepared to be poorer as a result? Lots of us probably are, but only in an "I'm all right Jack" way.
    What needs to happen is for the planners to accept that every house will have two cars, and not want to be stuck in traffic, then work from there to design their town, with features such as grade-separated walkways and places to park cars close to amenities. Many European towns and cities build huge parking areas underground, for example.
    It's entirely possible to design cities so that households only need one car, max. Very few households in our bit of London have two cars, for instance, because we have great public transport so that nobody drives to work. Kids all walk to school too, or take the bus or train. The car is for shopping, weekend trips, holidays and taking the kids to activities. We need to build more high density cities with good public transport and amenities nearby, not ugly sprawl designed around the car.
    Waltham Forest is an interesting example. Much of it is pre car housing (with no parking) mixed up with car led sprawl and so the whole Borough is largely crammed up with traffic jams and cars dominating everywhere. The Council have decided that they are going to move on from cars and will become a walking and cycling Borough, and there will be 15 minute neighbourhoods where you can get whatever it is you need. And... there will be no parking in new developments and residents of new build flats and houses etc will be banned from ever applying for residential on street parking permits. It is quite amazing that this works politically, but it seems to.
    In WF, about 40 percent of households hove no cars at all. Even here in Havering, it's about 20 percent.

    https://www.centreforlondon.org/blog/car-ownership-census/

    The interesting question is what's the ratio of want to drive versus feeling forced to do it to access the good life; a good life that would be more accessible if there weren't so many cars.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Just for the benefit of anyone here, I will repeat my long standing recommendation to the labour party in terms of its policy on Housing.
    - Pick a few areas around London which are not that developed, but have little to no landscape value, and extremely high conservative majorities.
    - Put together a 'housing for the future plan' which involves building a million houses in these areas.
    - Say that you will grant 'planning permission in principle' for a million houses by way of an act of parliament in the first 100 days of office, in these areas
    - Watch the tories go absolutely insane, watch the internal battles, watch all the nimby tendencies in the liberal democrats and the green party come to the fore... for a total niche issue that has no political downside for the labour party, because they never win in these areas anyway.

    I think there is potential for a "New Towns" programme not dissimilar to the postwar ones. The key though is not the houses themselves, but rather employment, hence the need for good transport connections.

    Convert HS2 to a line with a stop every 15-20 miles between London and Brum with a New Town centered on each stop, with road junction links to the near parallel M40 for business parks. The towns themselves constructed to encourage cycling etc as a form of commuting.

    I suspect such towns would be very attractive to people and businesses.
    I was reading an interesting report on Poundbury, it argues that one of its problems is poor connectivity to employment.

    https://www.centreforcities.org/blog/turning-30-has-poundbury-aged-well/

    Essentially the problem with all of this is that building new communities along the lines you are suggesting is a 50 year project, and politics intervenes, so it is hard to see it ever happening.

    My idea for the labour party is not a serious solution to the housing and planning problems, it is just an equally stupid response to the policies devised in this area by the tories over the last decade.

    The postwar "New Towns" were not designed as commuter towns, but rather as integrated communities with shopping centres and employment built in.

    Not all of these schemes worked, not least because the decline of manufacturing industry meant that the work was ephemeral, and not well suited to the skill set of the inhabitants, largely from working class communities in inner city slums.

    The concept is one worth revisiting for the 21st century.
    The interesting thing in that Poundbury article, is that they appear to base the success or failure of such a project, purely on people abandoning their cars. Trying to get people out of cars has been the utopia of town planners, ever since people started buying them!

    If your town has everything such that families only need one car rather than two, then it’s more of a city than a town. People will still drive to the supermarket and the larger shops.

    Higher-density developments are of course a better use of land, and should be encouraged. It’s just weird to see everyone obsessed with getting rid of something that many people see as aspirational.
    Trouble is that, whilst me having a car is aspirational, everyone else using cars makes my life worse.

    And it looks like there isn't a stable solution. The more you provide the road and parking space for cars, the more essential cars become, because everything that makes life good has to be further apart. And a lot of the
    infrastructure cars need to work is fairly ugly.

    There's also a reasonable case from the numbers that English cities are unproductive because they're so car based. The low density caps the gains that you should get from agglomeration.

    We may want to drive cars and live in detached houses in suburbia. But are we prepared to be poorer as a result? Lots of us probably are, but only in an "I'm all right Jack" way.
    What needs to happen is for the planners to accept that every house will have two cars, and not want to be stuck in traffic, then work from there to design their town, with features such as grade-separated walkways and places to park cars close to amenities. Many European towns and cities build huge parking areas underground, for example.
    It's entirely possible to design cities so that households only need one car, max. Very few households in our bit of London have two cars, for instance, because we have great public transport so that nobody drives to work. Kids all walk to school too, or take the bus or train. The car is for shopping, weekend trips, holidays and taking the kids to activities. We need to build more high density cities with good public transport and amenities nearby, not ugly sprawl designed around the car.
    Waltham Forest is an interesting example. Much of it is pre car housing (with no parking) mixed up with car led sprawl and so the whole Borough is largely crammed up with traffic jams and cars dominating everywhere. The Council have decided that they are going to move on from cars and will become a walking and cycling Borough, and there will be 15 minute neighbourhoods where you can get whatever it is you need. And... there will be no parking in new developments and residents of new build flats and houses etc will be banned from ever applying for residential on street parking permits. It is quite amazing that this works politically, but it seems to.
    Because the politicians, and those voting for them today, don’t live in this car-free Utopia. They live in the existing houses, and think there’s too much traffic.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,972
    darkage said:

    Just for the benefit of anyone here, I will repeat my long standing recommendation to the labour party in terms of its policy on Housing.
    - Pick a few areas around London which are not that developed, but have little to no landscape value, and extremely high conservative majorities.
    - Put together a 'housing for the future plan' which involves building a million houses in these areas.
    - Say that you will grant 'planning permission in principle' for a million houses by way of an act of parliament in the first 100 days of office, in these areas
    - Watch the tories go absolutely insane, watch the internal battles, watch all the nimby tendencies in the liberal democrats and the green party come to the fore... for a total niche issue that has no political downside for the labour party, because they never win in these areas anyway.

    I strongly suspect that nimbyism isn't something confined to Tory supporters.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,743
    Just watching the women’s cricket. How many other sports teams have a married couple in their ranks.
    Possibly Badminton, but that has mixed doubles.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    FBU leadership unanimously recommend govts revised pay offer. Could we be seeing the beginning of the end of the strikes.

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1624390017232560130?s=61&t=HFmpSizbkvB2WXwivk3JFA
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    The other addiction that holds this country back is nostalgia. Left or right, choose your poison, but myths about the sixties or ww2 make us fat and lazy. We are quite content to rest on the laurels of others.

    I don't think nostalgia is a peculiarly British problem, but anecdotally it does feel as though we have little sense of what positively want, and so are very conservsative and seek to just revisit old battles and policies, with only tokenistic tweaks otherwise even as we shy away from anything dramatic.
    Nostalgia is clearly not unique to Britain, but we are drunk on it. It’s everywhere. Brexit was an exercise in nostalgia. Scottish independence is an exercise in nostalgia. Corbyn was an exercise in nostalgia.
    You don’t travel much, do you?

    Every single serious nation on earth is, by its nature, an exercise in nostalgia

    Because it says: We are these people, who live here in this particular place, as we have done for X years, and we do these things, as we have done for generations, and this makes us different to the people next door

    That IS a nation. It is nostalgia turned into politics. How else do you define it?

    Any every serious nation is absolutely soaked in this stuff. UK, America, China, Russia, Germany, France, Spain, Japan, Denmark, Italy, Thailand, Holland, Mexico - even newer nations like Canada and Oz and South Africa. They are all “drunken exercises in nostalgia”
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    edited February 2023

    🐎 Six shooter Saturday

    Cheltenham is on its way, they obviously feel Love Envoi needs a run out before winning the Mares Hurdle in just 31 days time. if her season is about peaking for mares hurdle, I’m Napoleon today.

    13:50 Newbury - Annual Invictus

    2:05 Warwick - Love Envoi - NAP

    15:00 Newbury - Mortlach

    15:35 Newbury - Highway One O Two

    Not this afternoon ya Josephine
    Don't be so mean
    I like the way you look
    But now I've got a date with horses and rugby

    Witty. Resolute. Provocative. That’s my epitaph right there. 😄

    Erm, there are only four selections in your six-shooter but what a range of prices! 8/13, 7/1, 25/1 and 50/1. Good luck.
    Thank you.

    Before becoming name of a bet I think six shooter was a racing term in its own right - shooting up for the win or something like that. My gran used to say it.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,561
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    The other addiction that holds this country back is nostalgia. Left or right, choose your poison, but myths about the sixties or ww2 make us fat and lazy. We are quite content to rest on the laurels of others.

    I don't think nostalgia is a peculiarly British problem, but anecdotally it does feel as though we have little sense of what positively want, and so are very conservsative and seek to just revisit old battles and policies, with only tokenistic tweaks otherwise even as we shy away from anything dramatic.
    Nostalgia is clearly not unique to Britain, but we are drunk on it. It’s everywhere. Brexit was an exercise in nostalgia. Scottish independence is an exercise in nostalgia. Corbyn was an exercise in nostalgia.
    You don’t travel much, do you?

    Every single serious nation on earth is, by its nature, an exercise in nostalgia

    Because it says: We are these people, who live here in this particular place, as we have done for X years, and we do these things, as we have done for generations, and this makes us different to the people next door

    That IS a nation. It is nostalgia turned into politics. How else do you define it?

    Any every serious nation is absolutely soaked in this stuff. UK, America, China, Russia, Germany, France, Spain, Japan, Denmark, Italy, Thailand, Holland, Mexico - even newer nations like Canada and Oz and South Africa. They are all “drunken exercises in nostalgia”
    True but they do nostalgia a lot better in those countries, we used to do nostalgia better in the UK but British nostalgia isn’t what it used to be.
  • Horse racing is cruel.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    .

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see the European Super League is back from the tomb

    It is, again, destined for failure because they won’t get any English teams, almost certainly no German teams. PSG also unlikely, and lesser teams in Spain and Italy will be deeply wary

    Which doesn’t leave much

    What European league football needs is consolidation. Benelux should be a league, perhaps with France. Germany should incorporate Austria and Switzerland, and the Nordic countries? Italy would be in an Adriatic league with Croatia, Slovenia etc

    A British Isles league would be UK plus Eire. Maybe a western Med league of Spain and Portugal. Etc

    Then you could regularly see Rangers v Man United. Benfica v Barca. PSG v Ajax

    The Football Association of Ireland is gearing up for the new soccer season in Ireland by releasing the good news that a handful of teams have sold more than 1,000 season tickets for the season ahead. I don't know what level of the English football pyramid that would put the biggest Irish clubs at, probably struggling to cling on in League 2, and it would make the chances of soccer competing against rugby, or GAA, even slimmer.

    It's one thing to have Shamrock Rovers competing against Derry City to become Irish champions, quite another to have them scrapping against Crawley Town and Hartlepool United to stay in the fourth or fifth, or even sixth, tier of a football pyramid for all of Britain and Ireland.
    No, because money would flow into Irish football from England. I can see a new Dublin side competing in the EPL+ with good crowds

    But Ireland is a sideshow anyway

    The big win for British footie would be rescuing Rangers and Celtic. If the Old Firm had regular games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool that would be a new level of excitement for everyone. And then the big Scottish teams could return to European greatness
    "New Dublin side"? Football isn't franchised, which is why so many fans see the Milton Keynes lot as illegitimate.
    They’re not Illegitimate.

    They are not a franchise

    AFC Wimbledon fucked over Kingstonian FC as well.
    You mis-spelled "Chelsea".

    And I said "many fans", not "all". Some don't quite understand how damgerous the MK franchising was to the pyramid.
    I really didn’t mis-spell anything.

    MK Dons are not a franchise. There is no such thing as franchising in soccer and if there was so what.
    Then you're completely clueless about what actually happened between AFCW and Kingstonian - as clueless as you are about the Milton Keynes franchise and the risk it poses to football.
    I’m really not. I’m aware of what happened, I’m aware of the deal with the Khosla’s who used to own K’s and the ‘help’ offered to K’s at the time from them.

    A lot of which was covered on the old Kingstonian forum at the time. Indeed AFCFC fans used to drop by to demand compliance and gratitude from the ungrateful Ks serfs for daring to complain.

    Indeed I used to go down K’s regularly at the time and went to the SSC final where the AFC fans abused K’s fans on the way to the game and on the way out when they were losing.

    There is no love for AFC FC at K’s to this day. Rightly so.

    The Khosla’s were to K’s what Koppel was to Wimbledon yet AFCFC bought the ground from them while the K’s trust were trying to get funding to do the same and presented it as an act of benevolence. It wasn’t. So fuck Wimbledon.
    I mean, you write that just as if I wasn't there at the same time. The absolutely critical word in your comment is "trying".
    They would have achieved it too. The funding was being put in place. The salient point was AFCFC bought the ground before K’s had a chance to get the funding. The Ks trust were fucked over.

    Wimbledon fans were supposedly so anti franchising but set theirs up in Kingstonian. All the reasons they gave against a move to MK applied to a move to Kingston.



    There's a slight difference of distance. Plus they are not in Kingston anymore.
    Neither are Kingstonian. Thanks AFC FC.

    Yes, the AFC FC objection was purely one of distance. Most of the reasons they gave for objecting to MK apply also to their malign presence in Kingston.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    🐎 Six shooter Saturday

    Cheltenham is on its way, they obviously feel Love Envoi needs a run out before winning the Mares Hurdle in just 31 days time. if her season is about peaking for mares hurdle, I’m Napoleon today.

    13:50 Newbury - Annual Invictus

    2:05 Warwick - Love Envoi - NAP

    15:00 Newbury - Mortlach

    15:35 Newbury - Highway One O Two

    Not this afternoon ya Josephine
    Don't be so mean
    I like the way you look
    But now I've got a date with horses and rugby

    Witty. Resolute. Provocative. That’s my epitaph right there. 😄

    Erm, there are only four selections in your six-shooter but what a range of prices! 8/13, 7/1, 25/1 and 50/1. Good luck.
    Thank you.

    Before becoming name of a bet I think six shooter was a racing term in its own right - shooting up for the win or something like that. My gran used to say it.
    The original meaning is from a revolver gun that holds six bullets. It literally shoots six times, before one needs to stop and reload.
  • Taz said:

    FBU leadership unanimously recommend govts revised pay offer. Could we be seeing the beginning of the end of the strikes.

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1624390017232560130?s=61&t=HFmpSizbkvB2WXwivk3JFA

    7 percent for last year, 5 per cent this coming year. Real terms cut, but not insulting.

    Is the government prepared to offer that (roughly) across the board? If so, the strikes stop.

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    Sandpit said:

    🐎 Six shooter Saturday

    Cheltenham is on its way, they obviously feel Love Envoi needs a run out before winning the Mares Hurdle in just 31 days time. if her season is about peaking for mares hurdle, I’m Napoleon today.

    13:50 Newbury - Annual Invictus

    2:05 Warwick - Love Envoi - NAP

    15:00 Newbury - Mortlach

    15:35 Newbury - Highway One O Two

    Not this afternoon ya Josephine
    Don't be so mean
    I like the way you look
    But now I've got a date with horses and rugby

    Witty. Resolute. Provocative. That’s my epitaph right there. 😄

    Erm, there are only four selections in your six-shooter but what a range of prices! 8/13, 7/1, 25/1 and 50/1. Good luck.
    Thank you.

    Before becoming name of a bet I think six shooter was a racing term in its own right - shooting up for the win or something like that. My gran used to say it.
    The original meaning is from a revolver gun that holds six bullets. It literally shoots six times, before one needs to stop and reload.
    Yes. And then also a racing term for fast horses winning I think.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,419
    Why has Nick Cohen turned off replies to his tweets ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,465
    edited February 2023
    deleted as off-topic.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060

    Taz said:

    FBU leadership unanimously recommend govts revised pay offer. Could we be seeing the beginning of the end of the strikes.

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1624390017232560130?s=61&t=HFmpSizbkvB2WXwivk3JFA

    7 percent for last year, 5 per cent this coming year. Real terms cut, but not insulting.

    Is the government prepared to offer that (roughly) across the board? If so, the strikes stop.

    Yes, and it should not be inflationary either.

    They should do a deal with the nurses next.
  • TimS said:

    More Lee Anderson trolling today, this time on net zero (where’s he’s out of touch with the vast majority even of 2019 Tory voters).

    If Labour have their wits about them I think they can use the combination of him, Braverman and Raab to create a fear/disgust factor at the next election in the same way the Tories successfully did last time with Corbyn.

    Labour need to keep reminding voters that the next election isn’t in the bag and if they don’t turn out and vote they could face 5 more years of the likes of Anderson.

    My Tory member mum loves Braverman and Raab. You sure your not displaying all your biases?

    Labour members loved Jeremy Corbyn. The problem was the country didn't.

  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    .

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see the European Super League is back from the tomb

    It is, again, destined for failure because they won’t get any English teams, almost certainly no German teams. PSG also unlikely, and lesser teams in Spain and Italy will be deeply wary

    Which doesn’t leave much

    What European league football needs is consolidation. Benelux should be a league, perhaps with France. Germany should incorporate Austria and Switzerland, and the Nordic countries? Italy would be in an Adriatic league with Croatia, Slovenia etc

    A British Isles league would be UK plus Eire. Maybe a western Med league of Spain and Portugal. Etc

    Then you could regularly see Rangers v Man United. Benfica v Barca. PSG v Ajax

    The Football Association of Ireland is gearing up for the new soccer season in Ireland by releasing the good news that a handful of teams have sold more than 1,000 season tickets for the season ahead. I don't know what level of the English football pyramid that would put the biggest Irish clubs at, probably struggling to cling on in League 2, and it would make the chances of soccer competing against rugby, or GAA, even slimmer.

    It's one thing to have Shamrock Rovers competing against Derry City to become Irish champions, quite another to have them scrapping against Crawley Town and Hartlepool United to stay in the fourth or fifth, or even sixth, tier of a football pyramid for all of Britain and Ireland.
    No, because money would flow into Irish football from England. I can see a new Dublin side competing in the EPL+ with good crowds

    But Ireland is a sideshow anyway

    The big win for British footie would be rescuing Rangers and Celtic. If the Old Firm had regular games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool that would be a new level of excitement for everyone. And then the big Scottish teams could return to European greatness
    "New Dublin side"? Football isn't franchised, which is why so many fans see the Milton Keynes lot as illegitimate.
    They’re not Illegitimate.

    They are not a franchise

    AFC Wimbledon fucked over Kingstonian FC as well.
    You mis-spelled "Chelsea".

    And I said "many fans", not "all". Some don't quite understand how damgerous the MK franchising was to the pyramid.
    I really didn’t mis-spell anything.

    MK Dons are not a franchise. There is no such thing as franchising in soccer and if there was so what.
    Then you're completely clueless about what actually happened between AFCW and Kingstonian - as clueless as you are about the Milton Keynes franchise and the risk it poses to football.
    I’m really not. I’m aware of what happened, I’m aware of the deal with the Khosla’s who used to own K’s and the ‘help’ offered to K’s at the time from them.

    A lot of which was covered on the old Kingstonian forum at the time. Indeed AFCFC fans used to drop by to demand compliance and gratitude from the ungrateful Ks serfs for daring to complain.

    Indeed I used to go down K’s regularly at the time and went to the SSC final where the AFC fans abused K’s fans on the way to the game and on the way out when they were losing.

    There is no love for AFC FC at K’s to this day. Rightly so.

    The Khosla’s were to K’s what Koppel was to Wimbledon yet AFCFC bought the ground from them while the K’s trust were trying to get funding to do the same and presented it as an act of benevolence. It wasn’t. So fuck Wimbledon.
    I mean, you write that just as if I wasn't there at the same time. The absolutely critical word in your comment is "trying".
    They would have achieved it too. The funding was being put in place. The salient point was AFCFC bought the ground before K’s had a chance to get the funding. The Ks trust were fucked over.

    Wimbledon fans were supposedly so anti franchising but set theirs up in Kingstonian. All the reasons they gave against a move to MK applied to a move to Kingston.



    There's a slight difference of distance. Plus they are not in Kingston anymore.
    Neither are Kingstonian. Thanks AFC FC.

    Yes, the AFC FC objection was purely one of distance. Most of the reasons they gave for objecting to MK apply also to their malign presence in Kingston.
    Kingstonian aren't the first and won't be the last non-league club to suffer because they had owners who liked to splash the cash in the short-term while not looking to secure a long-term base for the club.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,703

    Just watching the women’s cricket. How many other sports teams have a married couple in their ranks.
    Possibly Badminton, but that has mixed doubles.

    The cycling team for the Olympics had the Kennys.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Why has Nick Cohen turned off replies to his tweets ?

    Dunno but a quick glance suggests he is trying to migrate readers to substack.
  • stodge said:

    I would be confident of a Labour majority, but for the fact that the Conservatives are making it impossible for 3+ million mainly younger adults to vote without first making a lot of effort to get additional photo ID just for the purpose of voting.

    I think you're overstating this. A lot will depend on what forms of photo ID will be acceptable. After all, many working people have photo ID on security passes, we obviously have driving licences and a number of travel concessionary cards require photos.

    Mrs Stodge doesn't have a driving licence so may be forced to take her passport to the polling station. She is worried it will get lost or stolen so would prefer to be able to take something else.

    I also saw there was some nonsense the 60+ Oyster card or Freedom pass would be acceptable but not a younger persons card (even though both have photos). I hope I'm wrong about this because that would be insidious and wrong and a clear political attempt to encourage older people to vote and discourage younger people.

    The whole thing is of course a complete nonsense - the facts about electoral malpractice suggest it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut and it would be better to talk to Agents and remind them of the rules on postal and proxy voting and ballots. Unfortunately, the propaganda about this has seeped into the public consciousness and there is a perception vote-tampering is widespread (which it isn't) and voter fraud is endemic (which again it isn't).

    Making it harder for certain groups to vote is the kind of gerrymandering we associate with the current Republican Party or some of the more odious elective dictatorships.
    Agree the policy is daft, but it looks like from official figures at the end of 2021 there were 49million British passports in circulation. Some will be held by under-18s, and Covid affected renewals, but I find it hard to believe that the electorate that wants to vote doesn't have ID.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,419
    7% is surely the sweet spot for public sector pay deals ?
    Not inflationary, but is meaningful
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    edited February 2023
    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    .

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see the European Super League is back from the tomb

    It is, again, destined for failure because they won’t get any English teams, almost certainly no German teams. PSG also unlikely, and lesser teams in Spain and Italy will be deeply wary

    Which doesn’t leave much

    What European league football needs is consolidation. Benelux should be a league, perhaps with France. Germany should incorporate Austria and Switzerland, and the Nordic countries? Italy would be in an Adriatic league with Croatia, Slovenia etc

    A British Isles league would be UK plus Eire. Maybe a western Med league of Spain and Portugal. Etc

    Then you could regularly see Rangers v Man United. Benfica v Barca. PSG v Ajax

    The Football Association of Ireland is gearing up for the new soccer season in Ireland by releasing the good news that a handful of teams have sold more than 1,000 season tickets for the season ahead. I don't know what level of the English football pyramid that would put the biggest Irish clubs at, probably struggling to cling on in League 2, and it would make the chances of soccer competing against rugby, or GAA, even slimmer.

    It's one thing to have Shamrock Rovers competing against Derry City to become Irish champions, quite another to have them scrapping against Crawley Town and Hartlepool United to stay in the fourth or fifth, or even sixth, tier of a football pyramid for all of Britain and Ireland.
    No, because money would flow into Irish football from England. I can see a new Dublin side competing in the EPL+ with good crowds

    But Ireland is a sideshow anyway

    The big win for British footie would be rescuing Rangers and Celtic. If the Old Firm had regular games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool that would be a new level of excitement for everyone. And then the big Scottish teams could return to European greatness
    "New Dublin side"? Football isn't franchised, which is why so many fans see the Milton Keynes lot as illegitimate.
    They’re not Illegitimate.

    They are not a franchise

    AFC Wimbledon fucked over Kingstonian FC as well.
    You mis-spelled "Chelsea".

    And I said "many fans", not "all". Some don't quite understand how damgerous the MK franchising was to the pyramid.
    I really didn’t mis-spell anything.

    MK Dons are not a franchise. There is no such thing as franchising in soccer and if there was so what.
    Then you're completely clueless about what actually happened between AFCW and Kingstonian - as clueless as you are about the Milton Keynes franchise and the risk it poses to football.
    I’m really not. I’m aware of what happened, I’m aware of the deal with the Khosla’s who used to own K’s and the ‘help’ offered to K’s at the time from them.

    A lot of which was covered on the old Kingstonian forum at the time. Indeed AFCFC fans used to drop by to demand compliance and gratitude from the ungrateful Ks serfs for daring to complain.

    Indeed I used to go down K’s regularly at the time and went to the SSC final where the AFC fans abused K’s fans on the way to the game and on the way out when they were losing.

    There is no love for AFC FC at K’s to this day. Rightly so.

    The Khosla’s were to K’s what Koppel was to Wimbledon yet AFCFC bought the ground from them while the K’s trust were trying to get funding to do the same and presented it as an act of benevolence. It wasn’t. So fuck Wimbledon.
    I mean, you write that just as if I wasn't there at the same time. The absolutely critical word in your comment is "trying".
    They would have achieved it too. The funding was being put in place. The salient point was AFCFC bought the ground before K’s had a chance to get the funding. The Ks trust were fucked over.

    Wimbledon fans were supposedly so anti franchising but set theirs up in Kingstonian. All the reasons they gave against a move to MK applied to a move to Kingston.



    There's a slight difference of distance. Plus they are not in Kingston anymore.
    Neither are Kingstonian. Thanks AFC FC.

    Yes, the AFC FC objection was purely one of distance. Most of the reasons they gave for objecting to MK apply also to their malign presence in Kingston.
    Kingstonian aren't the first and won't be the last non-league club to suffer because they had owners who liked to splash the cash in the short-term while not looking to secure a long-term base for the club.


    However the Ks supporters trust was raising funding to buy the ground and the club from Khosla. AFC FC were advising them.

    Before they had a chance to raise all the cash to buy the ground AFC FC, enabled IIRC by a loan at quite a high rate, bought Kingsmeadow.

    It is not for nothing, on the K’s forum, people used to refer to AFC FC fans as ‘ground stealers’ and hypocrites.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,703
    Andy_JS said:

    darkage said:

    Just for the benefit of anyone here, I will repeat my long standing recommendation to the labour party in terms of its policy on Housing.
    - Pick a few areas around London which are not that developed, but have little to no landscape value, and extremely high conservative majorities.
    - Put together a 'housing for the future plan' which involves building a million houses in these areas.
    - Say that you will grant 'planning permission in principle' for a million houses by way of an act of parliament in the first 100 days of office, in these areas
    - Watch the tories go absolutely insane, watch the internal battles, watch all the nimby tendencies in the liberal democrats and the green party come to the fore... for a total niche issue that has no political downside for the labour party, because they never win in these areas anyway.

    I strongly suspect that nimbyism isn't something confined to Tory supporters.
    True. The only thing confined to Tory supporters is supporting the Tories.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    Sandpit said:

    🐎 Six shooter Saturday

    Cheltenham is on its way, they obviously feel Love Envoi needs a run out before winning the Mares Hurdle in just 31 days time. if her season is about peaking for mares hurdle, I’m Napoleon today.

    13:50 Newbury - Annual Invictus

    2:05 Warwick - Love Envoi - NAP

    15:00 Newbury - Mortlach

    15:35 Newbury - Highway One O Two

    Not this afternoon ya Josephine
    Don't be so mean
    I like the way you look
    But now I've got a date with horses and rugby

    Witty. Resolute. Provocative. That’s my epitaph right there. 😄

    Erm, there are only four selections in your six-shooter but what a range of prices! 8/13, 7/1, 25/1 and 50/1. Good luck.
    Thank you.

    Before becoming name of a bet I think six shooter was a racing term in its own right - shooting up for the win or something like that. My gran used to say it.
    The original meaning is from a revolver gun that holds six bullets. It literally shoots six times, before one needs to stop and reload.
    “a revolver gun that holds six bullets. It literally shoots six times, before one needs to stop and reload”. So lots of fast shooting, so fast horse is a six shooter?

    Six-shooter Horse – A fast horse.

    https://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-slang/13/

    My gran wasn’t a cowboy by the way. She lived in Yorkshire and kept sheep and pigs and chickens.
  • Pulpstar said:

    7% is surely the sweet spot for public sector pay deals ?
    Not inflationary, but is meaningful

    It always was where haggling was going to end up. I suspect it empties the tax cuts warchest, though.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,939

    Pulpstar said:

    7% is surely the sweet spot for public sector pay deals ?
    Not inflationary, but is meaningful

    It always was where haggling was going to end up. I suspect it empties the tax cuts warchest, though.
    If the stories being leaked about cuts to HS2 are anything to go by the Treasury had been busy looking for savings it can make to raise some money to pay for better pay offers.

    I guess we'll find out next month how they've managed to do it.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    .

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see the European Super League is back from the tomb

    It is, again, destined for failure because they won’t get any English teams, almost certainly no German teams. PSG also unlikely, and lesser teams in Spain and Italy will be deeply wary

    Which doesn’t leave much

    What European league football needs is consolidation. Benelux should be a league, perhaps with France. Germany should incorporate Austria and Switzerland, and the Nordic countries? Italy would be in an Adriatic league with Croatia, Slovenia etc

    A British Isles league would be UK plus Eire. Maybe a western Med league of Spain and Portugal. Etc

    Then you could regularly see Rangers v Man United. Benfica v Barca. PSG v Ajax

    The Football Association of Ireland is gearing up for the new soccer season in Ireland by releasing the good news that a handful of teams have sold more than 1,000 season tickets for the season ahead. I don't know what level of the English football pyramid that would put the biggest Irish clubs at, probably struggling to cling on in League 2, and it would make the chances of soccer competing against rugby, or GAA, even slimmer.

    It's one thing to have Shamrock Rovers competing against Derry City to become Irish champions, quite another to have them scrapping against Crawley Town and Hartlepool United to stay in the fourth or fifth, or even sixth, tier of a football pyramid for all of Britain and Ireland.
    No, because money would flow into Irish football from England. I can see a new Dublin side competing in the EPL+ with good crowds

    But Ireland is a sideshow anyway

    The big win for British footie would be rescuing Rangers and Celtic. If the Old Firm had regular games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool that would be a new level of excitement for everyone. And then the big Scottish teams could return to European greatness
    "New Dublin side"? Football isn't franchised, which is why so many fans see the Milton Keynes lot as illegitimate.
    They’re not Illegitimate.

    They are not a franchise

    AFC Wimbledon fucked over Kingstonian FC as well.
    You mis-spelled "Chelsea".

    And I said "many fans", not "all". Some don't quite understand how damgerous the MK franchising was to the pyramid.
    I really didn’t mis-spell anything.

    MK Dons are not a franchise. There is no such thing as franchising in soccer and if there was so what.
    Then you're completely clueless about what actually happened between AFCW and Kingstonian - as clueless as you are about the Milton Keynes franchise and the risk it poses to football.
    I’m really not. I’m aware of what happened, I’m aware of the deal with the Khosla’s who used to own K’s and the ‘help’ offered to K’s at the time from them.

    A lot of which was covered on the old Kingstonian forum at the time. Indeed AFCFC fans used to drop by to demand compliance and gratitude from the ungrateful Ks serfs for daring to complain.

    Indeed I used to go down K’s regularly at the time and went to the SSC final where the AFC fans abused K’s fans on the way to the game and on the way out when they were losing.

    There is no love for AFC FC at K’s to this day. Rightly so.

    The Khosla’s were to K’s what Koppel was to Wimbledon yet AFCFC bought the ground from them while the K’s trust were trying to get funding to do the same and presented it as an act of benevolence. It wasn’t. So fuck Wimbledon.
    I mean, you write that just as if I wasn't there at the same time. The absolutely critical word in your comment is "trying".
    They would have achieved it too. The funding was being put in place. The salient point was AFCFC bought the ground before K’s had a chance to get the funding. The Ks trust were fucked over.

    Wimbledon fans were supposedly so anti franchising but set theirs up in Kingstonian. All the reasons they gave against a move to MK applied to a move to Kingston.



    There's a slight difference of distance. Plus they are not in Kingston anymore.
    Neither are Kingstonian. Thanks AFC FC.

    Yes, the AFC FC objection was purely one of distance. Most of the reasons they gave for objecting to MK apply also to their malign presence in Kingston.
    Kingstonian aren't the first and won't be the last non-league club to suffer because they had owners who liked to splash the cash in the short-term while not looking to secure a long-term base for the club.


    However the Ks supporters trust was raising funding to buy the ground and the club from Khosla. AFC FC were advising them.

    Before they had a chance to raise all the cash to buy the ground AFC FC, enabled IIRC by a loan at quite a high rate, bought Kingsmeadow.

    It is not for nothing, on the K’s forum, people used to refer to AFC FC fans as ‘ground stealers’ and hypocrites.
    The K supporters also got to enjoy an FA Cup run, promotions and days out at Wembley while they were spending beyond their means.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481
    OldBasing said:

    stodge said:

    I would be confident of a Labour majority, but for the fact that the Conservatives are making it impossible for 3+ million mainly younger adults to vote without first making a lot of effort to get additional photo ID just for the purpose of voting.

    I think you're overstating this. A lot will depend on what forms of photo ID will be acceptable. After all, many working people have photo ID on security passes, we obviously have driving licences and a number of travel concessionary cards require photos.

    Mrs Stodge doesn't have a driving licence so may be forced to take her passport to the polling station. She is worried it will get lost or stolen so would prefer to be able to take something else.

    I also saw there was some nonsense the 60+ Oyster card or Freedom pass would be acceptable but not a younger persons card (even though both have photos). I hope I'm wrong about this because that would be insidious and wrong and a clear political attempt to encourage older people to vote and discourage younger people.

    The whole thing is of course a complete nonsense - the facts about electoral malpractice suggest it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut and it would be better to talk to Agents and remind them of the rules on postal and proxy voting and ballots. Unfortunately, the propaganda about this has seeped into the public consciousness and there is a perception vote-tampering is widespread (which it isn't) and voter fraud is endemic (which again it isn't).

    Making it harder for certain groups to vote is the kind of gerrymandering we associate with the current Republican Party or some of the more odious elective dictatorships.
    Agree the policy is daft, but it looks like from official figures at the end of 2021 there were 49million British passports in circulation. Some will be held by under-18s, and Covid affected renewals, but I find it hard to believe that the electorate that wants to vote doesn't have ID.
    Expired passports are also valid.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,703
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    The other addiction that holds this country back is nostalgia. Left or right, choose your poison, but myths about the sixties or ww2 make us fat and lazy. We are quite content to rest on the laurels of others.

    I don't think nostalgia is a peculiarly British problem, but anecdotally it does feel as though we have little sense of what positively want, and so are very conservsative and seek to just revisit old battles and policies, with only tokenistic tweaks otherwise even as we shy away from anything dramatic.
    Nostalgia is clearly not unique to Britain, but we are drunk on it. It’s everywhere. Brexit was an exercise in nostalgia. Scottish independence is an exercise in nostalgia. Corbyn was an exercise in nostalgia.
    You don’t travel much, do you?

    Every single serious nation on earth is, by its nature, an exercise in nostalgia

    Because it says: We are these people, who live here in this particular place, as we have done for X years, and we do these things, as we have done for generations, and this makes us different to the people next door

    That IS a nation. It is nostalgia turned into politics. How else do you define it?

    Any every serious nation is absolutely soaked in this stuff. UK, America, China, Russia, Germany, France, Spain, Japan, Denmark, Italy, Thailand, Holland, Mexico - even newer nations like Canada and Oz and South Africa. They are all “drunken exercises in nostalgia”
    The key from the politics point of view is to what extent nostalgia impacts values and priorities. For progressives, it's not very much. A progressive can feel nostalgic - we often do in fact - but we keep it in its box, treat it as a private matter, something personal and specific to each individual.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    Unpopular said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    'A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed'

    I don't want to get into the tired debate about which clause is the most important in that wording, but it strikes me that the 2nd Amendment's language could be open to a number of interpretations. Practically speaking, a person's right to keep and bear certain arms are already infringed; you can't keep a battle-ready tank, for example. There are restrictions on where individuals can bear arms, such as court rooms.
    My right to own nuclear weapons has definitely been infringed.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,222

    TimS said:

    More Lee Anderson trolling today, this time on net zero (where’s he’s out of touch with the vast majority even of 2019 Tory voters).

    If Labour have their wits about them I think they can use the combination of him, Braverman and Raab to create a fear/disgust factor at the next election in the same way the Tories successfully did last time with Corbyn.

    Labour need to keep reminding voters that the next election isn’t in the bag and if they don’t turn out and vote they could face 5 more years of the likes of Anderson.

    My Tory member mum loves Braverman and Raab. You sure your not displaying all your biases?
    Plenty of people’s bearded lefty uncles loved Corbyn too. But the silent majority hate extremists.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    The other addiction that holds this country back is nostalgia. Left or right, choose your poison, but myths about the sixties or ww2 make us fat and lazy. We are quite content to rest on the laurels of others.

    I don't think nostalgia is a peculiarly British problem, but anecdotally it does feel as though we have little sense of what positively want, and so are very conservsative and seek to just revisit old battles and policies, with only tokenistic tweaks otherwise even as we shy away from anything dramatic.
    Nostalgia is clearly not unique to Britain, but we are drunk on it. It’s everywhere. Brexit was an exercise in nostalgia. Scottish independence is an exercise in nostalgia. Corbyn was an exercise in nostalgia.
    You don’t travel much, do you?

    Every single serious nation on earth is, by its nature, an exercise in nostalgia

    Because it says: We are these people, who live here in this particular place, as we have done for X years, and we do these things, as we have done for generations, and this makes us different to the people next door

    That IS a nation. It is nostalgia turned into politics. How else do you define it?

    Any every serious nation is absolutely soaked in this stuff. UK, America, China, Russia, Germany, France, Spain, Japan, Denmark, Italy, Thailand, Holland, Mexico - even newer nations like Canada and Oz and South Africa. They are all “drunken exercises in nostalgia”
    Perhaps we'd be better off with only silly nations.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,691
    edited February 2023
    ydoethur said:

    gonatas said:

    Good morning. This is my first post so please be gentle.
    I wonder, apropos of the debate about a possible Labour majority, whether this would be a better result for the Tories in the long term than NOM.
    If, after large poll leads and a truly dreadful Government, the Labour Party cannot win a majority at the next GE, might they not conclude, egged on by the LDs and Greens, that PR is the way to go?
    If that happens what price the Conservatives then?

    Welcome.

    And yes. The Tories would also benefit from being forced to reflect on just how badly they threw away a golden opportunity - indeed, a series of golden opportunities - to genuinely change this country for the better and leave things, amazingly, in a worse state than in 2010.
    I would suggest that, given the world events outside of their control, it was always likely that the Tories would leave the country in a worse state than they found it. I suspect there are few European countries that would consider they are currently in a better position than they were in 2010.

    The remarkable point is just how much worse the Tories will be leaving it. More importantly, from their point of view, how much worse they will be leaving the state of their own party.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,042
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    More Lee Anderson trolling today, this time on net zero (where’s he’s out of touch with the vast majority even of 2019 Tory voters).

    If Labour have their wits about them I think they can use the combination of him, Braverman and Raab to create a fear/disgust factor at the next election in the same way the Tories successfully did last time with Corbyn.

    Labour need to keep reminding voters that the next election isn’t in the bag and if they don’t turn out and vote they could face 5 more years of the likes of Anderson.

    My Tory member mum loves Braverman and Raab. You sure your not displaying all your biases?
    Plenty of people’s bearded lefty uncles loved Corbyn too. But the silent majority hate extremists.
    The silent majority aren't party members however
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Trying to think what our equivalent is. Something massively damaging but so ingrained in centuries of British tradition that nobody dare change or ban it, or even tighten regulations.

    Any candidates I can think of: alcohol, smoking, driving, boxing, hunting, waste disposal etc. have all been progressively regulated to reduce harm.
    As the Spectator pointed out, very wisely, it is the NHS

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-there-a-british-version-of-america-s-attachment-to-guns/
    Ironically it’s the Spectator that’s part of the problem. That right wing cozy club of eloquent bullshitters and blaggers that get by on connections rather than talent and crowd out true entrepreneurialism. Get rid of that and the nation can progress.
    And when you've removed these people from society along with everyone else you disagree with and the NHS is still broken beyond repair who then will you blame?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,691
    edited February 2023

    Taz said:

    FBU leadership unanimously recommend govts revised pay offer. Could we be seeing the beginning of the end of the strikes.

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1624390017232560130?s=61&t=HFmpSizbkvB2WXwivk3JFA

    7 percent for last year, 5 per cent this coming year. Real terms cut, but not insulting.

    Is the government prepared to offer that (roughly) across the board? If so, the strikes stop.


    Well the RMT have just rejected a 9% pay offer (13% for their lowest paid members) so apparently not.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203

    Sandpit said:

    US military have shot down an airbourne “object” near Alaska.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/10/us-shoots-high-altitude-object-near-alaska/

    Sounds like some sort of an unmanned aircraft of a foreign state - almost certainly China.

    All this does worry me, as did the start of the Ukrainian war last year.
    We do seem to be drifting back into very dangerous waters.
    War in Europe, and a slowly escalating tension between China and the United States.

    Fallout is supposed to be a game, and Threads a warning.
    Seems some people thing that both were documentaries......
    China has a whole wing in one of their aerospace museums devoted to US and Taiwanese manned and unmanned stuff they’ve shot down/aquired.

    Back in the 50s, the US was floating balloons over China to get intel. The they tried the D21….
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,743
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    More Lee Anderson trolling today, this time on net zero (where’s he’s out of touch with the vast majority even of 2019 Tory voters).

    If Labour have their wits about them I think they can use the combination of him, Braverman and Raab to create a fear/disgust factor at the next election in the same way the Tories successfully did last time with Corbyn.

    Labour need to keep reminding voters that the next election isn’t in the bag and if they don’t turn out and vote they could face 5 more years of the likes of Anderson.

    My Tory member mum loves Braverman and Raab. You sure your not displaying all your biases?
    Plenty of people’s bearded lefty uncles loved Corbyn too. But the silent majority hate extremists.
    Must admit that I quite liked Corbyn. I haven’t got a beard, though.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    .

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see the European Super League is back from the tomb

    It is, again, destined for failure because they won’t get any English teams, almost certainly no German teams. PSG also unlikely, and lesser teams in Spain and Italy will be deeply wary

    Which doesn’t leave much

    What European league football needs is consolidation. Benelux should be a league, perhaps with France. Germany should incorporate Austria and Switzerland, and the Nordic countries? Italy would be in an Adriatic league with Croatia, Slovenia etc

    A British Isles league would be UK plus Eire. Maybe a western Med league of Spain and Portugal. Etc

    Then you could regularly see Rangers v Man United. Benfica v Barca. PSG v Ajax

    The Football Association of Ireland is gearing up for the new soccer season in Ireland by releasing the good news that a handful of teams have sold more than 1,000 season tickets for the season ahead. I don't know what level of the English football pyramid that would put the biggest Irish clubs at, probably struggling to cling on in League 2, and it would make the chances of soccer competing against rugby, or GAA, even slimmer.

    It's one thing to have Shamrock Rovers competing against Derry City to become Irish champions, quite another to have them scrapping against Crawley Town and Hartlepool United to stay in the fourth or fifth, or even sixth, tier of a football pyramid for all of Britain and Ireland.
    No, because money would flow into Irish football from England. I can see a new Dublin side competing in the EPL+ with good crowds

    But Ireland is a sideshow anyway

    The big win for British footie would be rescuing Rangers and Celtic. If the Old Firm had regular games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool that would be a new level of excitement for everyone. And then the big Scottish teams could return to European greatness
    "New Dublin side"? Football isn't franchised, which is why so many fans see the Milton Keynes lot as illegitimate.
    They’re not Illegitimate.

    They are not a franchise

    AFC Wimbledon fucked over Kingstonian FC as well.
    You mis-spelled "Chelsea".

    And I said "many fans", not "all". Some don't quite understand how damgerous the MK franchising was to the pyramid.
    I really didn’t mis-spell anything.

    MK Dons are not a franchise. There is no such thing as franchising in soccer and if there was so what.
    Then you're completely clueless about what actually happened between AFCW and Kingstonian - as clueless as you are about the Milton Keynes franchise and the risk it poses to football.
    I’m really not. I’m aware of what happened, I’m aware of the deal with the Khosla’s who used to own K’s and the ‘help’ offered to K’s at the time from them.

    A lot of which was covered on the old Kingstonian forum at the time. Indeed AFCFC fans used to drop by to demand compliance and gratitude from the ungrateful Ks serfs for daring to complain.

    Indeed I used to go down K’s regularly at the time and went to the SSC final where the AFC fans abused K’s fans on the way to the game and on the way out when they were losing.

    There is no love for AFC FC at K’s to this day. Rightly so.

    The Khosla’s were to K’s what Koppel was to Wimbledon yet AFCFC bought the ground from them while the K’s trust were trying to get funding to do the same and presented it as an act of benevolence. It wasn’t. So fuck Wimbledon.
    I mean, you write that just as if I wasn't there at the same time. The absolutely critical word in your comment is "trying".
    They would have achieved it too. The funding was being put in place. The salient point was AFCFC bought the ground before K’s had a chance to get the funding. The Ks trust were fucked over.

    Wimbledon fans were supposedly so anti franchising but set theirs up in Kingstonian. All the reasons they gave against a move to MK applied to a move to Kingston.



    There's a slight difference of distance. Plus they are not in Kingston anymore.
    Neither are Kingstonian. Thanks AFC FC.

    Yes, the AFC FC objection was purely one of distance. Most of the reasons they gave for objecting to MK apply also to their malign presence in Kingston.
    Kingstonian aren't the first and won't be the last non-league club to suffer because they had owners who liked to splash the cash in the short-term while not looking to secure a long-term base for the club.


    However the Ks supporters trust was raising funding to buy the ground and the club from Khosla. AFC FC were advising them.

    Before they had a chance to raise all the cash to buy the ground AFC FC, enabled IIRC by a loan at quite a high rate, bought Kingsmeadow.

    It is not for nothing, on the K’s forum, people used to refer to AFC FC fans as ‘ground stealers’ and hypocrites.
    The K supporters also got to enjoy an FA Cup run, promotions and days out at Wembley while they were spending beyond their means.
    No one is arguing K’s didn’t spend beyond their means.

    The issue is their treatment by Wimbledon and it was brought up in response to a Wimbledon fan and comments they were making.

    K’s current plight is only partly due to their overspending. It is also due to AFC FC.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,042
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    On the current polling Labour are going to win a big majority. However if Sunak can win back 2019 Tories going DK or to RefUK he can still get a hung parliament. That requires cutting borrowing enough to enable tax cuts before the next general election in particular. Remember too Cameron was heading for a landslide majority in 2009 but Brown pulled it back to get to a hung parliament by polling day in 2010.

    Changing the leader now would make sod all difference. Indeed if anything Sunak polls better than the Conservative Party overall now

    From your point of view what would be a better result for the future of the Tories and the country, a hung parliament with a coalition of the current opposition or a significant labour majority? And why?
    A hung parliament with the LDs not SNP holding the balance of power. Though obviously I prefer a Tory majority overall
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,483

    Taz said:

    FBU leadership unanimously recommend govts revised pay offer. Could we be seeing the beginning of the end of the strikes.

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1624390017232560130?s=61&t=HFmpSizbkvB2WXwivk3JFA

    7 percent for last year, 5 per cent this coming year. Real terms cut, but not insulting.

    Is the government prepared to offer that (roughly) across the board? If so, the strikes stop.


    Well the RMT have just rejected a 9% pay offer (13% for their lowest paid members) so apparently not.
    That's over two years, as I'm sure you know. So 3pp below the firefighters' offer over two years.
  • MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Appeals court ruling says alleged domestic abusers have a constitutional right to keep their guns

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/09/guns-domestic-abuse-second-amendment/
    Advocates for domestic violence victims were stunned by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which continued a string of court decisions citing the Second Amendment to erase gun restrictions…
    … In 2021 alone, 127 women in Texas were murdered by their male intimate partners with firearms, according to the Texas Council on Family Violence. Across the country, an average of 70 women each month are killed by their partners with guns. Research has shown that a domestic violence victim’s risk of death is five times higher when their abuser has access to a gun...

    Shocking . Absolutely disgusting . Wtf is wrong with the USA where common sense and something most people would agree with as in keeping guns out of the hands of violent people is ignored so that they can bang on about their frigging gun rights .

    The Second Amendment is wrong in the context of the 21st century. But it's there and we can't pretend it isn't.
    Then they need to modify it to stop violent people owning guns . Oh how lucky we are to live in a civilized country where people care more about the lives of others than owning a gun.
    Trying to think what our equivalent is. Something massively damaging but so ingrained in centuries of British tradition that nobody dare change or ban it, or even tighten regulations.

    Any candidates I can think of: alcohol, smoking, driving, boxing, hunting, waste disposal etc. have all been progressively regulated to reduce harm.
    As the Spectator pointed out, very wisely, it is the NHS

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-there-a-british-version-of-america-s-attachment-to-guns/
    Ironically it’s the Spectator that’s part of the problem. That right wing cozy club of eloquent bullshitters and blaggers that get by on connections rather than talent and crowd out true entrepreneurialism. Get rid of that and the nation can progress.
    And when you've removed these people from society along with everyone else you disagree with and the NHS is still broken beyond repair who then will you blame?
    They don't need to be removed from society they just need to cease to have any influence on society. Its going to happen anyway so lets try to do it before the country is completely gone eh.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    On the current polling Labour are going to win a big majority. However if Sunak can win back 2019 Tories going DK or to RefUK he can still get a hung parliament. That requires cutting borrowing enough to enable tax cuts before the next general election in particular. Remember too Cameron was heading for a landslide majority in 2009 but Brown pulled it back to get to a hung parliament by polling day in 2010.

    Changing the leader now would make sod all difference. Indeed if anything Sunak polls better than the Conservative Party overall now

    From your point of view what would be a better result for the future of the Tories and the country, a hung parliament with a coalition of the current opposition or a significant labour majority? And why?
    A hung parliament with the LDs not SNP holding the balance of power. Though obviously I prefer a Tory majority overall
    If you get that you are pretty much looking at having some form of PR imposed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,042
    TimS said:

    More Lee Anderson trolling today, this time on net zero (where’s he’s out of touch with the vast majority even of 2019 Tory voters).

    If Labour have their wits about them I think they can use the combination of him, Braverman and Raab to create a fear/disgust factor at the next election in the same way the Tories successfully did last time with Corbyn.

    Labour need to keep reminding voters that the next election isn’t in the bag and if they don’t turn out and vote they could face 5 more years of the likes of Anderson.

    In 2017 though Corbyn got 40% of the vote and a hung parliament, only in 2019 at his second attempt was he heavily beaten
This discussion has been closed.