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The Intermarium – politicalbetting.com

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  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    edited January 2023
    mwadams said:

    It seem that someone is blowing up weapons facilities in Iran. Or is that just social media excitement?

    The 5.9 richter earthquake was presumably co-incidental, but if it was enemy action that was some arms dump.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258

    Carol Vorderman has been all over this potential scandal on tv.

    https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1619648474924085248?s=20&t=qAPz-_3YZqWFtIz4EukAlQ

    You clearly have a view.

    But Carol Vorderman equally clearly doesn’t know what insider trading is
    I'm not sure that the nomenclature is the substantive point here.
    The substantive point is that it is bullshit. It’s well known Rishi was a junior Co-founder of a hedge fund. What that hedge fund invests in a decade after Rishi left is irrelevant
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    For some reason I think Michael Portillo, at least in his new, enlightened form, would do a much better job than Sunak.

    We could do worse than having Portillo and Blair as the two main party leaders.
  • One day soon, the Conservative Party will rediscover itself and be a party we can all be proud of once again.

    That day will yet come - but for now it is time to step aside and let the Labour Party take our great country forward.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Phil said:

    mwadams said:

    It seem that someone is blowing up weapons facilities in Iran. Or is that just social media excitement?

    The 5.9 richter earthquake was presumably co-incidental, but if it was enemy action that was some arms dump.
    Anyone got the codes for Grazer One?
  • Carol Vorderman has been all over this potential scandal on tv.

    https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1619648474924085248?s=20&t=qAPz-_3YZqWFtIz4EukAlQ

    You clearly have a view.

    But Carol Vorderman equally clearly doesn’t know what insider trading is
    I'm not sure that the nomenclature is the substantive point here.
    The substantive point is that it is bullshit. It’s well known Rishi was a junior Co-founder of a hedge fund. What that hedge fund invests in a decade after Rishi left is irrelevant
    If this was Keir Starmer you wouldn’t stop going on about it. Just as with his curry
  • Phil said:

    mwadams said:

    It seem that someone is blowing up weapons facilities in Iran. Or is that just social media excitement?

    The 5.9 richter earthquake was presumably co-incidental, but if it was enemy action that was some arms dump.
    Anyone got the codes for Grazer One?
    "Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups!"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Here we go again. Round two. Explosions have been reported again in the Iranian city of Mahabad. A IRGC base is reportedly close to the area that is struck.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1619793905171714048
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    LOL at Liverpool FC :lol:

    Is Klopp still manager !!!
    Don't be silly. If things need fixing he's still the best person to do it.
    It was tongue in cheek!!!!
    From a Man Utd fan. 🤭

    To be serious, Chelsea, Tottenham and Liverpool could all start next season with different managers than today. Not that Klopp or Conte arn’t brilliant managers, but maybe they are no longer right fit or happy at clubs no longer backing them with transfers? Sometimes managers don’t resign or get sacked, the two parties have a frank and honest conversation and agree to move on.

    Pellegrini at Chelsea already looks highly likely IMO.
    Indeed. I became a United fan in 1953 so now in my 70th year having been a season ticket holder until fairly recently and was present in Barcelona when we won the European cup

    I remember years ago Bobby Charlton telling me as I went into the AGM with him to remember to enjoy the good days as they will come and go over time and such wise words from a great footballer and person
    Wow. There’s a name dropping anecdote.

    Right back in the beginning of your 70 years Man Utd weren’t clearly English footballs biggest club were they as they later became? Times change. Will the truly good days come round so often again? The future doesn’t look so great for Man Utd. Not bad, but not obviously top 4 if they can’t compete on transfers and wages.

    When money first came into Man City, it didn’t guarantee trophy’s from the start, but look at the squad depth now. So likewise, Newcastle and Chelsea will emerge as in top 3 English clubs alongside Man City.

    In Liverpool and Man Utd we have clubs undergoing change of ownership. Question marks will hang there whether their new owners actually can compete in the top tier in transfer market. [Unless winning it] Three from seven top English clubs will miss out on Champions league football for as long as it remains top four to qualify - and that is bad for attracting players and bringing in revenue. Man City, Newcastle, Chelsea will be backed by their owners in top tier of transfers and comprise top four next year and for many coming seasons, Tottenham, Arsenal, Man Utd and Liverpool likely to supply the three sides missing out every season from next season onward.
    I was born within 5 miles of the ground but in 1953 we moved to Berwick and I followed them from that time and of course the Busby babes were in vogue sadly being decimated in the Munich air crash in 1958. When we moved to North Wales in 1965 I was able to attend matches and also in 1966 was present at Goodison when the late great Pele played against Eusebio in the World cup tie

    Lots of memories and several meetings with Alex Ferguuson and others

    I would just say my late father supported both United and City as he said they are both Manchester teams but I did not inherit that attitude, bless him
    You know, for all we like this place for he diversity of perspective and opinion (albeit from a cohort that is broadly well off, ageing and tends centrist), it is the evocativeness of familiarity that can get you most.

    Cookie's familiarity with places I grew up his housing, holidays and similar life is one - a close mirror to me on the political right. That I can narrow Slade down to a village based on his restaurant choices (and the reorganization of my kids' activities means I pass a good few hours a week in or to and from the said village).

    And this. My late father settled his football allegiances in the late 40s, early 50s, breaking with the City allegiance of his much older brothers, who had followed their father pre war. Whilst growing up about 5 miles from Old Trafford in a family that in that generation had strong, present Welsh ancestry and an affinity for the Conwy coast - one branch of the family retired there. Whatever the truth of it, I can almost picture Big_G's allegiances forming in strange parallel, in a similar family, in a similar town, for the exact same reasons
    as my own father's journey.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    Nigelb said:

    Here we go again. Round two. Explosions have been reported again in the Iranian city of Mahabad. A IRGC base is reportedly close to the area that is struck.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1619793905171714048

    Is this the Iranian theatre of WWIII?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Phil said:

    mwadams said:

    It seem that someone is blowing up weapons facilities in Iran. Or is that just social media excitement?

    The 5.9 richter earthquake was presumably co-incidental, but if it was enemy action that was some arms dump.
    Anyone got the codes for Grazer One?
    "Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups!"

    Guangzhou is a chemical weapons plant masquerading as a fertilizer plant. We know this. The Chinese know that we know. But we make believe that we don't know and the Chinese make believe that they believe that we don't know, but know that we know. Everybody knows.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072

    Nigelb said:

    Here we go again. Round two. Explosions have been reported again in the Iranian city of Mahabad. A IRGC base is reportedly close to the area that is struck.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1619793905171714048

    Is this the Iranian theatre of WWIII?
    I don’t know, but it doesn’t seem very sensible.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Nigelb said:

    Here we go again. Round two. Explosions have been reported again in the Iranian city of Mahabad. A IRGC base is reportedly close to the area that is struck.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1619793905171714048

    Is this the Iranian theatre of WWIII?
    It can't be that serious, Leonageddon hasn't told us we're all doomed yet.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Why is MTG not in the Betfair VP nominee pool ?
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/01/the-surge-marjorie-taylor-greene-vp-trump.html

    It’s no as though Republican voters haven’t previously shown themselves mad enough.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Here we go again. Round two. Explosions have been reported again in the Iranian city of Mahabad. A IRGC base is reportedly close to the area that is struck.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1619793905171714048

    Is this the Iranian theatre of WWIII?
    I don’t know, but it doesn’t seem very sensible.
    Too soon - WWIII starts next weekend, when @TheScreamingEagles is minding the store for OGH.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    edited January 2023

    Carol Vorderman has been all over this potential scandal on tv.

    https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1619648474924085248?s=20&t=qAPz-_3YZqWFtIz4EukAlQ

    You clearly have a view.

    But Carol Vorderman equally clearly doesn’t know what insider trading is
    I'm not sure that the nomenclature is the substantive point here.
    The substantive point is that it is bullshit. It’s well known Rishi was a junior Co-founder of a hedge fund. What that hedge fund invests in a decade after Rishi left is irrelevant
    If this was Keir Starmer you wouldn’t stop going on about it. Just as with his curry
    I don’t recall posting on Starmer’s curry and certainly wouldn’t have “gone on about it”. I did find it a little amusing that it became an issue after Labour went to town on Boris Johnson’s birthday cake (I generally don’t like the police being brought into minor political scandals). But no fine was levied after the investigation

    I suspect you are thinking about someone else

    Edit: out of curiosity given I’ve barely posted this year (been commuting between the US, Poland and Germany) you seem strangely antagonistic
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    edited January 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Here we go again. Round two. Explosions have been reported again in the Iranian city of Mahabad. A IRGC base is reportedly close to the area that is struck.
    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1619793905171714048

    Is this the Iranian theatre of WWIII?
    I don’t know, but it doesn’t seem very sensible.
    I don’t think so. Twitter last night and this evening seemed to be saying connected to nuclear programme not anything related to Ukraine. I don’t think they have that degree of reach. Israel though potentially. Or internal stuff.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Nigelb said:
    With the damage she did and the scandals that are coming out now that she covered up £500k was not nearly enough compensation. We should be suing her for more.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    Carol Vorderman has been all over this potential scandal on tv.

    https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1619648474924085248?s=20&t=qAPz-_3YZqWFtIz4EukAlQ

    You clearly have a view.

    But Carol Vorderman equally clearly doesn’t know what insider trading is
    I'm not sure that the nomenclature is the substantive point here.
    The substantive point is that it is bullshit. It’s well known Rishi was a junior Co-founder of a hedge fund. What that hedge fund invests in a decade after Rishi left is irrelevant
    If you haven't familiarised yourself with the basic facts, discussion seems pointless.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,156
    edited January 2023
    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    edited January 2023
    I’m starting to revise my Israel theory and sobering if this is the first few bangs of an Iranian civil war:

    https://twitter.com/maks_nafo_fella/status/1619799722725896192?s=46&t=3iLLuwq6bYK2vvj3lXZKdw

    Targets are too wide and varied to be a foreign attack. Feels more like the sabotage on Russian sites over the last year.

    EDIT: or maybe not. This looks fairly clear cut

    https://twitter.com/wsj/status/1619715753531285506?s=46&t=XN76u0718w3OvHR0RZtGLw
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,156
    edited January 2023
    The Iranian army, fighting against the IRG ? The Israelis ? The Azeris ? All looks a bit unfathomable, to me.

    Ah - perhaps Israel the most likely then, as thought. Netanyahu is mad.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Nigelb said:

    Why is MTG not in the Betfair VP nominee pool ?
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/01/the-surge-marjorie-taylor-greene-vp-trump.html

    It’s no as though Republican voters haven’t previously shown themselves mad enough.

    MTG or Kari Lake would be ideal Republican VP nominees... for the Dems.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:
    With the damage she did and the scandals that are coming out now that she covered up £500k was not nearly enough compensation. We should be suing her for more.
    She'd totally screwed up, and failed.

    Obviously she needs a better job and a payout. She's one of The New Upper 10,000 - that's what failure means for them.

    Mind you, 500K is a bit light for that. Charlie Prince got $91 million for crashing CITI (and nearly the whole financial system). He whined for years about how small his payout was.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why is MTG not in the Betfair VP nominee pool ?
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/01/the-surge-marjorie-taylor-greene-vp-trump.html

    It’s no as though Republican voters haven’t previously shown themselves mad enough.

    MTG or Kari Lake would be ideal Republican VP nominees... for the Dems.
    I don’t think it will be Lake; she’s a loser.
    MTG is a real possibility, mad though it might seem, if Trump is the nominee.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Nigelb said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why is MTG not in the Betfair VP nominee pool ?
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/01/the-surge-marjorie-taylor-greene-vp-trump.html

    It’s no as though Republican voters haven’t previously shown themselves mad enough.

    MTG or Kari Lake would be ideal Republican VP nominees... for the Dems.
    I don’t think it will be Lake; she’s a loser.
    MTG is a real possibility, mad though it might seem, if Trump is the nominee.
    That'll be the time to buy popcorn shares.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
  • DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:
    With the damage she did and the scandals that are coming out now that she covered up £500k was not nearly enough compensation. We should be suing her for more.
    She'd totally screwed up, and failed.

    Obviously she needs a better job and a payout. She's one of The New Upper 10,000 - that's what failure means for them.

    Mind you, 500K is a bit light for that. Charlie Prince got $91 million for crashing CITI (and nearly the whole financial system). He whined for years about how small his payout was.
    In other sacked people news:

    Monday's Telegraph: PM 'sacked Zahawi without a fair hearing'

    https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1619823945082888193

    About as plausible as that bath story they did on Saturday.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258

    Carol Vorderman has been all over this potential scandal on tv.

    https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1619648474924085248?s=20&t=qAPz-_3YZqWFtIz4EukAlQ

    You clearly have a view.

    But Carol Vorderman equally clearly doesn’t know what insider trading is
    I'm not sure that the nomenclature is the substantive point here.
    The substantive point is that it is bullshit. It’s well known Rishi was a junior Co-founder of a hedge fund. What that hedge fund invests in a decade after Rishi left is irrelevant
    If you haven't familiarised yourself with the basic facts, discussion seems pointless.
    He joined Theleme in 2010. He left when he went into politics. 8 years not 10. So sue me.

    Now do you have evidence or just smears?

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Apparently Tory voters by 49% to 37% want the fat lying oaf back as PM . Really these people should be sterilized so they can’t add more idiocy to the UK gene pool !
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,156
    edited January 2023

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
    Indeed. But there also seem to be more scandals emerging about the Met that weren't even on the public record before, as far as I can see it. A catastrophically failing organisation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    nico679 said:

    Apparently Tory voters by 49% to 37% want the fat lying oaf back as PM . Really these people should be sterilized so they can’t add more idiocy to the UK gene pool !

    By current demographics of Tory voters most will already have passed on their genes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited January 2023

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:
    With the damage she did and the scandals that are coming out now that she covered up £500k was not nearly enough compensation. We should be suing her for more.
    She'd totally screwed up, and failed.

    Obviously she needs a better job and a payout. She's one of The New Upper 10,000 - that's what failure means for them.

    Mind you, 500K is a bit light for that. Charlie Prince got $91 million for crashing CITI (and nearly the whole financial system). He whined for years about how small his payout was.
    In other sacked people news:

    Monday's Telegraph: PM 'sacked Zahawi without a fair hearing'

    https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1619823945082888193

    About as plausible as that bath story they did on Saturday.
    Classic take from them though. It's the same with anyone caught wrongdoing, no matter what process there is they will always claim it was not fair. In this case at best Zahawi admitted to a level of incompetence with money that led to him having to pay millions, and that should be disqualifying for anyone in a Cabinet post anyway. Much more plausibly he was caught out on a historic attempt to dodge what he owed.

    There's no explanation Zahawi could offer that should have resulted in anything other than a sacking, since he deserved that even if everything is as he is now claiming it was. So a whinge about the process, obviously for benefit of the large recalcitrant wing of the party, is just pathetic.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The silence now of ministers, committee members and other MSPs, and others, who have been so keen in the past to defame and disparage people who disagree with them makes me think that perhaps, just perhaps, we may not be dealing with such brave and principled people after all.
    https://twitter.com/lucyhunterb/status/1619795786161852417
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
    Indeed. But there also seem to be more scandals emerging about the Met that weren't even on the public record before, as far as I can see it. A catastrophically failing organisation.
    Given everything that was publicly known about the Met, what were the chances that all the nasty stuff was visible?

    The stuff about recycling officers who were under investigation became public with Tomlinson, for example. If you are using sleight of hand to get officers with er… a heavy hand? on to the riot squad…. That means there must be more corrupt and fucked up idiots being traded like playing cards between forces.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Roger said:

    Carol Vorderman has been all over this potential scandal on tv.

    https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1619648474924085248?s=20&t=qAPz-_3YZqWFtIz4EukAlQ

    You clearly have a view.

    But Carol Vorderman equally clearly doesn’t know what insider trading is
    I'm not sure that the nomenclature is the substantive point here.
    The substantive point is that it is bullshit. It’s well known Rishi was a junior Co-founder of a hedge fund. What that hedge fund invests in a decade after Rishi left is irrelevant
    If this was Keir Starmer you wouldn’t stop going on about it. Just as with his curry
    Zahawi not being sacked until all the evidence was in on the surface seems fair enough. But it all falls apart when you remember that he appointed Suella Braverman who had been kicked out a week before he re-employed her for breaking the ministerial code.

    He is weak and he's an opportunist.
    The Braverman thing really undercuts him a lot more than I think he realises. When his Cabinet was announced there was some disappointment about a lack of big changes from some quarters, but it was understandable in the light of party management, and JRM and Nadine being out will have gained him some plaudits as well. Even the Williamson appointment was only a minor cock up, since he was at least appointed to a minor role.

    But Braverman? There are definitely others in the party just as keen to stop the boats. If she needed rewarding she could have been given another Cabinet post, with the rational explanation that he could welcome her back but not to the same role so soon after what she herself had said about why she left.

    He lost a lot of goodwill from people who are persuadable to return to Tory support, or at least contemplate giving them a chance.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    edited January 2023
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:
    With the damage she did and the scandals that are coming out now that she covered up £500k was not nearly enough compensation. We should be suing her for more.
    She'd totally screwed up, and failed.

    Obviously she needs a better job and a payout. She's one of The New Upper 10,000 - that's what failure means for them.

    Mind you, 500K is a bit light for that. Charlie Prince got $91 million for crashing CITI (and nearly the whole financial system). He whined for years about how small his payout was.
    In other sacked people news:

    Monday's Telegraph: PM 'sacked Zahawi without a fair hearing'

    https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1619823945082888193

    About as plausible as that bath story they did on Saturday.
    Classic take from them though. It's the same with anyone caught wrongdoing, no matter what process there is they will always claim it was not fair. In this case at best Zahawi admitted to a level of incompetence with money that led to him having to pay millions, and that should be disqualifying for anyone in a Cabinet post anyway. Much more plausibly he was caught out on a historic attempt to dodge what he owed.

    There's no explanation Zahawi could offer that should have resulted in anything other than a sacking, since he deserved that even if everything is as he is now claiming it was. So a whinge about the process, obviously for benefit of the large recalcitrant wing of the party, is just pathetic.
    What is this 'fair hearing', process stuff anyway ?
    The process (in Zahawi's case) is saying "you're sacked", and that's about it.
    No such thing as unfair dismissal for such political appointments.


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:
    Everybody's on the take.
    Conservative majority culture.
    Needs stamping out.
    A Labour government which does bugger all except insist you can't enrich yourself on the public dime is reason enough for a change of government.
    The culture of entitlement to payouts and better jobs for failure goes way back.

    Sharon Shoesmith wanted (and got) a big payout for being responsible for the death of Baby P, for example.

    When I become UnDictator, those who fail will have a different role in public service provided for them. Providing shade - see Crassus and Vlad The Impaler.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:
    With the damage she did and the scandals that are coming out now that she covered up £500k was not nearly enough compensation. We should be suing her for more.
    She'd totally screwed up, and failed.

    Obviously she needs a better job and a payout. She's one of The New Upper 10,000 - that's what failure means for them.

    Mind you, 500K is a bit light for that. Charlie Prince got $91 million for crashing CITI (and nearly the whole financial system). He whined for years about how small his payout was.
    In other sacked people news:

    Monday's Telegraph: PM 'sacked Zahawi without a fair hearing'

    https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1619823945082888193

    About as plausible as that bath story they did on Saturday.
    Classic take from them though. It's the same with anyone caught wrongdoing, no matter what process there is they will always claim it was not fair. In this case at best Zahawi admitted to a level of incompetence with money that led to him having to pay millions, and that should be disqualifying for anyone in a Cabinet post anyway. Much more plausibly he was caught out on a historic attempt to dodge what he owed.

    There's no explanation Zahawi could offer that should have resulted in anything other than a sacking, since he deserved that even if everything is as he is now claiming it was. So a whinge about the process, obviously for benefit of the large recalcitrant wing of the party, is just pathetic.
    What is this 'fair hearing', process stuff anyway ?
    The process is saying "you're sacked", and that's about it.
    At the least they must have had a conversation prior to publicly exchanging letters. Zahawi will have had a last ditch chance to explain himself and convince Sunak not to sack him.

    Sunak cannot win. Wait for the smoking gun and be called weak for not acting sooner, but also be called unfair for...I'm actually not sure exactly.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    DavidL said:

    Obviously the right decision, but a tacit admission that the safeguards don’t work. The safety of women prisoners in Scotland appears to depend on the press shaming politicians into action, which cannot be right.
    https://twitter.com/staylorish/status/1619734995035369473
    BREAKING: Scottish Government intervenes today to immediately block any trans prisoner “with a history of violence against women” from being held or transferred to all-female jails.

    It means Ministers have today essentially blocked the planned move of Tiffany Scott.
    @SkyNews

    https://twitter.com/ConnorGillies/status/1619733168621494272

    Well, common sense prevails (after we have tried everything else, of course). To be honest I give Sturgeon some credit for this. At least she is willing to admit she was wrong. It can't have been easy.
    You need to read the announcement more carefully.

    Violent men already in the women's estate won't be moved out and it is only men convicted of very serious violence against women who will be kept out while they urgently review a policy which has been under review since 2018. Women will still have to put up with slightly less violent men. And men convicted of very serious violence against other men, presumably on the basis that such men have some sort of chivalric code which means they cannot possibly be a threat to women.

    Perhaps this time the Scottish Prison Service will consult women and do an equality impact assessment, neither of which were done previously it seems.

    Amazing what a bit of bad publicity will panic a politician into doing.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:
    Everybody's on the take.
    Conservative majority culture.
    Needs stamping out.
    A Labour government which does bugger all except insist you can't enrich yourself on the public dime is reason enough for a change of government.
    The culture of entitlement to payouts and better jobs for failure goes way back.

    Sharon Shoesmith wanted (and got) a big payout for being responsible for the death of Baby P, for example.

    When I become UnDictator, those who fail will have a different role in public service provided for them. Providing shade - see Crassus and Vlad The Impaler.

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:
    Everybody's on the take.
    Conservative majority culture.
    Needs stamping out.
    A Labour government which does bugger all except insist you can't enrich yourself on the public dime is reason enough for a change of government.
    The culture of entitlement to payouts and better jobs for failure goes way back.

    Sharon Shoesmith wanted (and got) a big payout for being responsible for the death of Baby P, for example.

    When I become UnDictator, those who fail will have a different role in public service provided for them. Providing shade - see Crassus and Vlad The Impaler.
    I forgot Sharon Shoesmitn personally tortured that baby….you Tory misinformationers….you try to draw equivalence when there isn’t fucking any…..

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,156
    edited January 2023

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
    Indeed. But there also seem to be more scandals emerging about the Met that weren't even on the public record before, as far as I can see it. A catastrophically failing organisation.
    Given everything that was publicly known about the Met, what were the chances that all the nasty stuff was visible?

    The stuff about recycling officers who were under investigation became public with Tomlinson, for example. If you are using sleight of hand to get officers with er… a heavy hand? on to the riot squad…. That means there must be more corrupt and fucked up idiots being traded like playing cards between forces.
    This is correct, but I would say the point I was making was more that Cyclefree correctly assessed the whole organisation's methods as qualitatively unfit, rather than just extrapolating and extending data from what was already known, or on the public record. It takes an experienced investigator to see the patterns and signs of evasion in an organisation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Look, the work is definitely very male, but even for the provocative hook to a podcast the options could be presented as less binary.

    Was he a genius writer whose sprawling fantasy worlds have delighted millions of readers and filmgoers? Or an evil, reactionary, woman-hating possible racist?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/LTV50NHmLbxXNK9qNt5Yc6/jrr-tolkien-sensational-scribe-or-lady-hating-orc-wrangler

    (For what it is worth I'd say Tolkein was a superlative worldbuilder rather than a genius writer - and after reading descriptions in Unfinished Tales about his scribbling important details down on random papers, he was also in desperate need of an ideas notebook to carry round with him)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:
    Everybody's on the take.
    Conservative majority culture.
    Needs stamping out.
    A Labour government which does bugger all except insist you can't enrich yourself on the public dime is reason enough for a change of government.
    The culture of entitlement to payouts and better jobs for failure goes way back.

    Sharon Shoesmith wanted (and got) a big payout for being responsible for the death of Baby P, for example.

    When I become UnDictator, those who fail will have a different role in public service provided for them. Providing shade - see Crassus and Vlad The Impaler.
    I forgot Sharon Shoesmitn personally tortured that baby….you Tory misinformationers….you try to draw equivalence when there isn’t fucking any…..



    She was guilty like Cressida Dick for the failure of her organisation. Maybe more so.

    She also spent lots of time persecuting the young lady actually trying to save baby Peters life. Via administrative investigation on bullshit charges.

    And complained in memos about said lady always banging on about the child she thought was being abused….

    And complained that she didn’t get the payout she felt she was due.

    Not sure why you want to die on that hill.

    The corrupt practise of the better job and the payout is something I’ve been highlighting for decades.

    The whole lot of them need to be trying to get a background check pas for being a taxi driver. And failing.

    If you think that a change in government will change the practise, then your disappointment will be swift.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
    Indeed. But there also seem to be more scandals emerging about the Met that weren't even on the public record before, as far as I can see it. A catastrophically failing organisation.
    Given everything that was publicly known about the Met, what were the chances that all the nasty stuff was visible?

    The stuff about recycling officers who were under investigation became public with Tomlinson, for example. If you are using sleight of hand to get officers with er… a heavy hand? on to the riot squad…. That means there must be more corrupt and fucked up idiots being traded like playing cards between forces.
    This is correct, but I would say the point I was making was more that Cyclefree correctly assessed the whole organisation's methods as qualitatively unfit, rather than just extrapolating and extending data from what was already known, or on the public record. It takes an experienced investigator to see the patterns and signs of evasion in an organisation.
    Yes it does. Thank you. I see the same pattern repeated over and over.

    What is happening now in politics is a complete failure to realise what conflicts of interest are, why they are bad and how to avoid them. They are at the heart of most scandals. They are at the heart of all the scandals afflicting this government and until this changes they will carry on happening.

    I wish I could be confident that Labour truly understand the problems with conflict of interest. I'm not. The Lib Dems certainly don't.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,085
    @johndnnstn

    I note with some amazement that your response was your second ever comment, the first being in [checks notes] 2015. I am oddly touched, thank you.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
    Indeed. But there also seem to be more scandals emerging about the Met that weren't even on the public record before, as far as I can see it. A catastrophically failing organisation.
    Given everything that was publicly known about the Met, what were the chances that all the nasty stuff was visible?

    The stuff about recycling officers who were under investigation became public with Tomlinson, for example. If you are using sleight of hand to get officers with er… a heavy hand? on to the riot squad…. That means there must be more corrupt and fucked up idiots being traded like playing cards between forces.
    This is correct, but I would say the point I was making was more that Cyclefree correctly assessed the whole organisation's methods as qualitatively unfit, rather than just extrapolating and extending data from what was already known, or on the public record. It takes an experienced investigator to see the patterns and signs of evasion in an organisation.
    It would be astonishing if an organisation that fucks up so massively in several areas is actually brilliant at all the others.

    The Met was an obvious clown show to anyone who looked - @Cyclefree simply gave us the reality, often in the very words of the Met themselves.

    There was not the slightest chance of her being wrong.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Obviously the right decision, but a tacit admission that the safeguards don’t work. The safety of women prisoners in Scotland appears to depend on the press shaming politicians into action, which cannot be right.
    https://twitter.com/staylorish/status/1619734995035369473
    BREAKING: Scottish Government intervenes today to immediately block any trans prisoner “with a history of violence against women” from being held or transferred to all-female jails.

    It means Ministers have today essentially blocked the planned move of Tiffany Scott.
    @SkyNews

    https://twitter.com/ConnorGillies/status/1619733168621494272

    Well, common sense prevails (after we have tried everything else, of course). To be honest I give Sturgeon some credit for this. At least she is willing to admit she was wrong. It can't have been easy.
    You need to read the announcement more carefully.

    Violent men already in the women's estate won't be moved out and it is only men convicted of very serious violence against women who will be kept out while they urgently review a policy which has been under review since 2018. Women will still have to put up with slightly less violent men. And men convicted of very serious violence against other men, presumably on the basis that such men have some sort of chivalric code which means they cannot possibly be a threat to women.

    Perhaps this time the Scottish Prison Service will consult women and do an equality impact assessment, neither of which were done previously it seems.

    Amazing what a bit of bad publicity will panic a politician into doing.
    And sadly the clock is ticking, like the tell take heart, until the horrible, inevitable conclusion.

    I hope I am wrong. But reality tells me it will happen.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,156
    edited January 2023

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
    Indeed. But there also seem to be more scandals emerging about the Met that weren't even on the public record before, as far as I can see it. A catastrophically failing organisation.
    Given everything that was publicly known about the Met, what were the chances that all the nasty stuff was visible?

    The stuff about recycling officers who were under investigation became public with Tomlinson, for example. If you are using sleight of hand to get officers with er… a heavy hand? on to the riot squad…. That means there must be more corrupt and fucked up idiots being traded like playing cards between forces.
    This is correct, but I would say the point I was making was more that Cyclefree correctly assessed the whole organisation's methods as qualitatively unfit, rather than just extrapolating and extending data from what was already known, or on the public record. It takes an experienced investigator to see the patterns and signs of evasion in an organisation.
    It would be astonishing if an organisation that fucks up so massively in several areas is actually brilliant at all the others.

    The Met was an obvious clown show to anyone who looked - @Cyclefree simply gave us the reality, often in the very words of the Met themselves.

    There was not the slightest chance of her being wrong.
    That's not really the issue I was raising ; it was how and why she was right, rather than whether.
    Cyclefree said:

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
    Indeed. But there also seem to be more scandals emerging about the Met that weren't even on the public record before, as far as I can see it. A catastrophically failing organisation.
    Given everything that was publicly known about the Met, what were the chances that all the nasty stuff was visible?

    The stuff about recycling officers who were under investigation became public with Tomlinson, for example. If you are using sleight of hand to get officers with er… a heavy hand? on to the riot squad…. That means there must be more corrupt and fucked up idiots being traded like playing cards between forces.
    This is correct, but I would say the point I was making was more that Cyclefree correctly assessed the whole organisation's methods as qualitatively unfit, rather than just extrapolating and extending data from what was already known, or on the public record. It takes an experienced investigator to see the patterns and signs of evasion in an organisation.
    Yes it does. Thank you. I see the same pattern repeated over and over.

    What is happening now in politics is a complete failure to realise what conflicts of interest are, why they are bad and how to avoid them. They are at the heart of most scandals. They are at the heart of all the scandals afflicting this government and until this changes they will carry on happening.

    I wish I could be confident that Labour truly understand the problems with conflict of interest. I'm not. The Lib Dems certainly don't.
    De rien. Your posts add a lot to the site and keep up the good work.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Cyclefree said:

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
    Indeed. But there also seem to be more scandals emerging about the Met that weren't even on the public record before, as far as I can see it. A catastrophically failing organisation.
    Given everything that was publicly known about the Met, what were the chances that all the nasty stuff was visible?

    The stuff about recycling officers who were under investigation became public with Tomlinson, for example. If you are using sleight of hand to get officers with er… a heavy hand? on to the riot squad…. That means there must be more corrupt and fucked up idiots being traded like playing cards between forces.
    This is correct, but I would say the point I was making was more that Cyclefree correctly assessed the whole organisation's methods as qualitatively unfit, rather than just extrapolating and extending data from what was already known, or on the public record. It takes an experienced investigator to see the patterns and signs of evasion in an organisation.
    Yes it does. Thank you. I see the same pattern repeated over and over.

    What is happening now in politics is a complete failure to realise what conflicts of interest are, why they are bad and how to avoid them. They are at the heart of most scandals. They are at the heart of all the scandals afflicting this government and until this changes they will carry on happening.

    I wish I could be confident that Labour truly understand the problems with conflict of interest. I'm not. The Lib Dems certainly don't.
    Why should they?

    By its nature, politics tends to the chumocracy. As do many other fields. In charity and the arts, 3rd generations inherit work, advancement….

    It won’t be pushed back by simply a change in government. It is too easy, too simple to carry on making deals on the sofas… It requires a definite, defined movement against it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,961
    edited January 2023
    nico679 said:

    Apparently Tory voters by 49% to 37% want the fat lying oaf back as PM . Really these people should be sterilized so they can’t add more idiocy to the UK gene pool !

    Voters overall prefer Sunak to Johnson 37% to 34%, and Remain voters prefer Sunak too.

    2019 Conservative voters though yes and Leave voters still prefer Johnson to Sunak

    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1619741991407095809?s=20&t=VuysHzejZDpfxJVvGEXRyw
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
    Indeed. But there also seem to be more scandals emerging about the Met that weren't even on the public record before, as far as I can see it. A catastrophically failing organisation.
    Given everything that was publicly known about the Met, what were the chances that all the nasty stuff was visible?

    The stuff about recycling officers who were under investigation became public with Tomlinson, for example. If you are using sleight of hand to get officers with er… a heavy hand? on to the riot squad…. That means there must be more corrupt and fucked up idiots being traded like playing cards between forces.
    This is correct, but I would say the point I was making was more that Cyclefree correctly assessed the whole organisation's methods as qualitatively unfit, rather than just extrapolating and extending data from what was already known, or on the public record. It takes an experienced investigator to see the patterns and signs of evasion in an organisation.
    It would be astonishing if an organisation that fucks up so massively in several areas is actually brilliant at all the others.

    The Met was an obvious clown show to anyone who looked - @Cyclefree simply gave us the reality, often in the very words of the Met themselves.

    There was not the slightest chance of her being wrong.
    And yet while what I was saying was obvious there were very few - **checks notes** - no politicians saying any of this until right at the very end. Even now I'm not at all sure the politicians really get the scale of the problem, not just at the Met but in our entire police force.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    Cyclefree said:

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
    Indeed. But there also seem to be more scandals emerging about the Met that weren't even on the public record before, as far as I can see it. A catastrophically failing organisation.
    Given everything that was publicly known about the Met, what were the chances that all the nasty stuff was visible?

    The stuff about recycling officers who were under investigation became public with Tomlinson, for example. If you are using sleight of hand to get officers with er… a heavy hand? on to the riot squad…. That means there must be more corrupt and fucked up idiots being traded like playing cards between forces.
    This is correct, but I would say the point I was making was more that Cyclefree correctly assessed the whole organisation's methods as qualitatively unfit, rather than just extrapolating and extending data from what was already known, or on the public record. It takes an experienced investigator to see the patterns and signs of evasion in an organisation.
    Yes it does. Thank you. I see the same pattern repeated over and over.

    What is happening now in politics is a complete failure to realise what conflicts of interest are, why they are bad and how to avoid them. They are at the heart of most scandals. They are at the heart of all the scandals afflicting this government and until this changes they will carry on happening.

    I wish I could be confident that Labour truly understand the problems with conflict of interest. I'm not. The Lib Dems certainly don't.
    Why should they?

    By its nature, politics tends to the chumocracy. As do many other fields. In charity and the arts, 3rd generations inherit work, advancement….

    It won’t be pushed back by simply a change in government. It is too easy, too simple to carry on making deals on the sofas… It requires a definite, defined movement against it.
    Can I be the first to start this movement?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Cyclefree said:

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
    Indeed. But there also seem to be more scandals emerging about the Met that weren't even on the public record before, as far as I can see it. A catastrophically failing organisation.
    Given everything that was publicly known about the Met, what were the chances that all the nasty stuff was visible?

    The stuff about recycling officers who were under investigation became public with Tomlinson, for example. If you are using sleight of hand to get officers with er… a heavy hand? on to the riot squad…. That means there must be more corrupt and fucked up idiots being traded like playing cards between forces.
    This is correct, but I would say the point I was making was more that Cyclefree correctly assessed the whole organisation's methods as qualitatively unfit, rather than just extrapolating and extending data from what was already known, or on the public record. It takes an experienced investigator to see the patterns and signs of evasion in an organisation.
    It would be astonishing if an organisation that fucks up so massively in several areas is actually brilliant at all the others.

    The Met was an obvious clown show to anyone who looked - @Cyclefree simply gave us the reality, often in the very words of the Met themselves.

    There was not the slightest chance of her being wrong.
    And yet while what I was saying was obvious there were very few - **checks notes** - no politicians saying any of this until right at the very end. Even now I'm not at all sure the politicians really get the scale of the problem, not just at the Met but in our entire police force.
    "It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It."

    Going to war with the Police is considered harmful. Going to war with the whole political system?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
    Indeed. But there also seem to be more scandals emerging about the Met that weren't even on the public record before, as far as I can see it. A catastrophically failing organisation.
    Given everything that was publicly known about the Met, what were the chances that all the nasty stuff was visible?

    The stuff about recycling officers who were under investigation became public with Tomlinson, for example. If you are using sleight of hand to get officers with er… a heavy hand? on to the riot squad…. That means there must be more corrupt and fucked up idiots being traded like playing cards between forces.
    This is correct, but I would say the point I was making was more that Cyclefree correctly assessed the whole organisation's methods as qualitatively unfit, rather than just extrapolating and extending data from what was already known, or on the public record. It takes an experienced investigator to see the patterns and signs of evasion in an organisation.
    Yes it does. Thank you. I see the same pattern repeated over and over.

    What is happening now in politics is a complete failure to realise what conflicts of interest are, why they are bad and how to avoid them. They are at the heart of most scandals. They are at the heart of all the scandals afflicting this government and until this changes they will carry on happening.

    I wish I could be confident that Labour truly understand the problems with conflict of interest. I'm not. The Lib Dems certainly don't.
    Why should they?

    By its nature, politics tends to the chumocracy. As do many other fields. In charity and the arts, 3rd generations inherit work, advancement….

    It won’t be pushed back by simply a change in government. It is too easy, too simple to carry on making deals on the sofas… It requires a definite, defined movement against it.
    Can I be the first to start this movement?
    I thought you had?


    Hooded Man #2: Have we started the fire?
    Bane: Yes. The fire rises.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:
    With the damage she did and the scandals that are coming out now that she covered up £500k was not nearly enough compensation. We should be suing her for more.
    She'd totally screwed up, and failed.

    Obviously she needs a better job and a payout. She's one of The New Upper 10,000 - that's what failure means for them.

    Mind you, 500K is a bit light for that. Charlie Prince got $91 million for crashing CITI (and nearly the whole financial system). He whined for years about how small his payout was.
    In other sacked people news:

    Monday's Telegraph: PM 'sacked Zahawi without a fair hearing'

    https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1619823945082888193

    About as plausible as that bath story they did on Saturday.
    Classic take from them though. It's the same with anyone caught wrongdoing, no matter what process there is they will always claim it was not fair. In this case at best Zahawi admitted to a level of incompetence with money that led to him having to pay millions, and that should be disqualifying for anyone in a Cabinet post anyway. Much more plausibly he was caught out on a historic attempt to dodge what he owed.

    There's no explanation Zahawi could offer that should have resulted in anything other than a sacking, since he deserved that even if everything is as he is now claiming it was. So a whinge about the process, obviously for benefit of the large recalcitrant wing of the party, is just pathetic.
    What is this 'fair hearing', process stuff anyway ?
    The process (in Zahawi's case) is saying "you're sacked", and that's about it.
    No such thing as unfair dismissal for such political appointments.


    But he's a member of the Upper 10,000

    He needs a seven figure payout and a better job - that's his right.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    Cyclefree said:

    It does seem that Cyclefree was right about Cressida Dick and the Met, X 1000.

    She, repeatedly, has pointed out the the publicly known facts of the failures of various organisations.

    It's hard to be wrong when you are quoting the public record, multiple witnessed accounts and statements of what actually happened.
    Indeed. But there also seem to be more scandals emerging about the Met that weren't even on the public record before, as far as I can see it. A catastrophically failing organisation.
    Given everything that was publicly known about the Met, what were the chances that all the nasty stuff was visible?

    The stuff about recycling officers who were under investigation became public with Tomlinson, for example. If you are using sleight of hand to get officers with er… a heavy hand? on to the riot squad…. That means there must be more corrupt and fucked up idiots being traded like playing cards between forces.
    This is correct, but I would say the point I was making was more that Cyclefree correctly assessed the whole organisation's methods as qualitatively unfit, rather than just extrapolating and extending data from what was already known, or on the public record. It takes an experienced investigator to see the patterns and signs of evasion in an organisation.
    It would be astonishing if an organisation that fucks up so massively in several areas is actually brilliant at all the others.

    The Met was an obvious clown show to anyone who looked - @Cyclefree simply gave us the reality, often in the very words of the Met themselves.

    There was not the slightest chance of her being wrong.
    And yet while what I was saying was obvious there were very few - **checks notes** - no politicians saying any of this until right at the very end. Even now I'm not at all sure the politicians really get the scale of the problem, not just at the Met but in our entire police force.
    "It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It."

    Going to war with the Police is considered harmful. Going to war with the whole political system?
    I refer you to the saying in my avatar.
  • New thread.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    tyson said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:
    Everybody's on the take.
    Conservative majority culture.
    Needs stamping out.
    A Labour government which does bugger all except insist you can't enrich yourself on the public dime is reason enough for a change of government.
    The culture of entitlement to payouts and better jobs for failure goes way back.

    Sharon Shoesmith wanted (and got) a big payout for being responsible for the death of Baby P, for example.

    When I become UnDictator, those who fail will have a different role in public service provided for them. Providing shade - see Crassus and Vlad The Impaler.

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:
    Everybody's on the take.
    Conservative majority culture.
    Needs stamping out.
    A Labour government which does bugger all except insist you can't enrich yourself on the public dime is reason enough for a change of government.
    The culture of entitlement to payouts and better jobs for failure goes way back.

    Sharon Shoesmith wanted (and got) a big payout for being responsible for the death of Baby P, for example.

    When I become UnDictator, those who fail will have a different role in public service provided for them. Providing shade - see Crassus and Vlad The Impaler.
    I forgot Sharon Shoesmitn personally tortured that baby….you Tory misinformationers….you try to draw equivalence when there isn’t fucking any…..

    Cressida Dick didn’t personally shoot Jean Charles de Menezes or hire Wayne Couzens. She is still responsible for what happened, as if she had been doing her job properly it wouldn’t have happened.

    As was Shoesmith. Or indeed Spielman.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    edited January 2023
    HYUFD said:


    Palmerston was also of course the last non Tory PM to win 3 consecutive general election majorities before Blair

    No he didn't. He became leader of two four party coalitions which had a majority, before finally winning a majority of his own under the new Liberal Party (which merged three of them) in 1865.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,961
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:


    Palmerston was also of course the last non Tory PM to win 3 consecutive general election majorities before Blair

    No he didn't. He became leader of two four party coalitions which had a majority, before finally winning a majority of his own under the new Liberal Party (which merged three of them) in 1865.
    Yes he did.

    He won a majority as Whig leader in 1857 and majorities as Liberal leader in 1859 and 1865
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:


    Palmerston was also of course the last non Tory PM to win 3 consecutive general election majorities before Blair

    No he didn't. He became leader of two four party coalitions which had a majority, before finally winning a majority of his own under the new Liberal Party (which merged three of them) in 1865.
    Yes he did.

    He won a majority as Whig leader in 1857 and majorities as Liberal leader in 1859 and 1865
    The Whigs did not win a majority in 1857. In fact, the last time they won a majority was in 1832. The 1857 majority included around 70 Peelites and 20 radicals as well as the Irish.

    The Liberal Party didn't even exist until *after* the 1859 election.

    Wikipedia is wrong on this, as so often, because the election articles in the 19th century are edited by somebody who doesn't understand the dynamic of the topic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,961
    edited January 2023
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:


    Palmerston was also of course the last non Tory PM to win 3 consecutive general election majorities before Blair

    No he didn't. He became leader of two four party coalitions which had a majority, before finally winning a majority of his own under the new Liberal Party (which merged three of them) in 1865.
    Yes he did.

    He won a majority as Whig leader in 1857 and majorities as Liberal leader in 1859 and 1865
    The Whigs did not win a majority in 1857. In fact, the last time they won a majority was in 1832. The 1857 majority included around 70 Peelites and 20 radicals as well as the Irish.

    The Liberal Party didn't even exist until *after* the 1859 election.

    Wikipedia is wrong on this, as so often, because the election articles in the 19th century are edited by somebody who doesn't understand the dynamic of the topic.
    Regardless through Peelites and radicals and Irish Nationalists weren't then Tories either.

    So you could still say Palmerston was the last PM to win most seats and a non Tory majority at 3 consecutive general elections before Blair
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:


    Palmerston was also of course the last non Tory PM to win 3 consecutive general election majorities before Blair

    No he didn't. He became leader of two four party coalitions which had a majority, before finally winning a majority of his own under the new Liberal Party (which merged three of them) in 1865.
    Yes he did.

    He won a majority as Whig leader in 1857 and majorities as Liberal leader in 1859 and 1865
    The Whigs did not win a majority in 1857. In fact, the last time they won a majority was in 1832. The 1857 majority included around 70 Peelites and 20 radicals as well as the Irish.

    The Liberal Party didn't even exist until *after* the 1859 election.

    Wikipedia is wrong on this, as so often, because the election articles in the 19th century are edited by somebody who doesn't understand the dynamic of the topic.
    Regardless through Peelites and radicals and Irish Nationalists weren't then Tories either.

    So you could still say Palmerston was the last PM to win most seats and a non Tory majority at 3 consecutive general elections before Blair
    No you couldn’t. And in any case, that’s not what you said.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:
    With the damage she did and the scandals that are coming out now that she covered up £500k was not nearly enough compensation. We should be suing her for more.
    She'd totally screwed up, and failed.

    Obviously she needs a better job and a payout. She's one of The New Upper 10,000 - that's what failure means for them.

    Mind you, 500K is a bit light for that. Charlie Prince got $91 million for crashing CITI (and nearly the whole financial system). He whined for years about how small his payout was.
    In other sacked people news:

    Monday's Telegraph: PM 'sacked Zahawi without a fair hearing'

    https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1619823945082888193

    About as plausible as that bath story they did on Saturday.
    Classic take from them though. It's the same with anyone caught wrongdoing, no matter what process there is they will always claim it was not fair. In this case at best Zahawi admitted to a level of incompetence with money that led to him having to pay millions, and that should be disqualifying for anyone in a Cabinet post anyway. Much more plausibly he was caught out on a historic attempt to dodge what he owed.

    There's no explanation Zahawi could offer that should have resulted in anything other than a sacking, since he deserved that even if everything is as he is now claiming it was. So a whinge about the process, obviously for benefit of the large recalcitrant wing of the party, is just pathetic.
    I agree - so why did Sunak try to pretend that there was an independent process upon which he was going to base his decision?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,961
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:


    Palmerston was also of course the last non Tory PM to win 3 consecutive general election majorities before Blair

    No he didn't. He became leader of two four party coalitions which had a majority, before finally winning a majority of his own under the new Liberal Party (which merged three of them) in 1865.
    Yes he did.

    He won a majority as Whig leader in 1857 and majorities as Liberal leader in 1859 and 1865
    The Whigs did not win a majority in 1857. In fact, the last time they won a majority was in 1832. The 1857 majority included around 70 Peelites and 20 radicals as well as the Irish.

    The Liberal Party didn't even exist until *after* the 1859 election.

    Wikipedia is wrong on this, as so often, because the election articles in the 19th century are edited by somebody who doesn't understand the dynamic of the topic.
    Regardless through Peelites and radicals and Irish Nationalists weren't then Tories either.

    So you could still say Palmerston was the last PM to win most seats and a non Tory majority at 3 consecutive general elections before Blair
    No you couldn’t. And in any case, that’s not what you said.
    Yes you could. The Whigs and Liberals won most seats in 1857, 1859 and 1865 all led by Palmerston.

    No other non Tory PM and party leader won most seats at 3 consecutive general elections after Palmerston until Blair
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:


    Palmerston was also of course the last non Tory PM to win 3 consecutive general election majorities before Blair

    No he didn't. He became leader of two four party coalitions which had a majority, before finally winning a majority of his own under the new Liberal Party (which merged three of them) in 1865.
    Yes he did.

    He won a majority as Whig leader in 1857 and majorities as Liberal leader in 1859 and 1865
    The Whigs did not win a majority in 1857. In fact, the last time they won a majority was in 1832. The 1857 majority included around 70 Peelites and 20 radicals as well as the Irish.

    The Liberal Party didn't even exist until *after* the 1859 election.

    Wikipedia is wrong on this, as so often, because the election articles in the 19th century are edited by somebody who doesn't understand the dynamic of the topic.
    Regardless through Peelites and radicals and Irish Nationalists weren't then Tories either.

    So you could still say Palmerston was the last PM to win most seats and a non Tory majority at 3 consecutive general elections before Blair
    No you couldn’t. And in any case, that’s not what you said.
    Yes you could. The Whigs and Liberals won most seats in 1857, 1859 and 1865 all led by Palmerston.

    No other non Tory PM and party leader won most seats at 3 consecutive general elections after Palmerston until Blair
    You could say it, but you would be wrong.

    As I have patiently explained to you.

    But then, you frequently are and it doesn’t seem to bother you.
This discussion has been closed.