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Now we have polling on who’s been the “PM of the Year” – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,163
edited December 2022 in General
imageNow we have polling on who’s been the “PM of the Year” – politicalbetting.com

This year will go down as one which has seen more changes at Number ten Downing Street than just about anybody can remember. This has prompted the Manchester-based pollster Omnisis to include a question that I’ve never seen before – “Who has been the best PM of the year”?

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • LOL.
  • Nah, the problem Truss had she thought her leadership victory gave her landslide majority in the country when she really didn't.

    Still one good thing about Truss, it tells us who are the best anti tipsters on PB.
  • Mr. Eagles, also worth remembering I tipped her to go this year at 46.

    It was a couple of days after the budget-that-wasn't.
  • Mr. Eagles, also worth remembering I tipped her to go this year at 46.

    It was a couple of days after the budget-that-wasn't.

    Oh mate, I tipped her to go long before that.

    It's why I won £500 from a fellow PBer.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,657

    LOL.

    What are the odds of Truss featuring in the panel?

    Truss's problem wasn't being too ambitious politically. It was being as mad as a box of frogs.
  • So I watched Die Hard last night.

    Still not a Christmas film.

    People who think Die Hard is a Christmas film also think Truss would make/was a fine PM.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    R4 dead ringers nailed Truss perfectly, on their Christmas special episodes.

    Ironic cheers from the audience.

    Worth a listen, if you have the spare time.
  • Foxy said:

    LOL.

    What are the odds of Truss featuring in the panel?

    Truss's problem wasn't being too ambitious politically. It was being as mad as a box of frogs.
    If you compare and contrast the hard work put in by Thatcher and Cameron before they became PM, Truss thought it was easy.

    Truss also seemed to forget that Thatcher put up taxes first to stabilise the economy/finances then was in a position to cut taxes later on.

    Being PM isn't easy.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,657
    Ah well, off tut mill. One more day then I can chill.

    Colleagues going down like nine pins with the dreaded lurgi. Glad I am not managing the rota over the long weekend.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2022
    Regardless of her crazy politics/strategic ineptitude, the thing that really grated with me was her personality.

    It was almost child-like, the way she turned on her parents/teachers and interpreted the behaviour of that air hostess, in her anecdotes during the leadership campaign.

    You can’t expect to be taken seriously as a grown up politician if you try to weaponise your irrational teenage angst.

    She’s barely mature enough to be an MP, let alone hold serious political power.

    What were the Tory members thinking?
  • Mr. Eagles, Die Hard is obviously a Christmas film.

    It was released in July 1988.

    The public agree with me.


  • So I watched Die Hard last night.

    Still not a Christmas film.

    People who think Die Hard is a Christmas film also think Truss would make/was a fine PM.

    I've never seen Die Hard but have acquired the dvd to watch on Sunday.
  • So I watched Die Hard last night.

    Still not a Christmas film.

    People who think Die Hard is a Christmas film also think Truss would make/was a fine PM.

    I've never seen Die Hard but have acquired the dvd to watch on Sunday.
    FYI - You'll want to watch the sequels but remember there are just two sequels.

    Die Hard 4 and 5 are awful, if Liz Truss decided to make movies.
  • Mr. Eagles, and yet the setting is Christmas. Hence the Christmas party, Christmas songs, Santa hat, and the famous line "Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    ping said:

    R4 dead ringers nailed Truss perfectly, on their Christmas special episodes.

    Ironic cheers from the audience.

    Worth a listen, if you have the spare time.

    Episode 3 tonight, 18.30 Radio 4.
  • Foxy said:

    LOL.

    What are the odds of Truss featuring in the panel?

    Truss's problem wasn't being too ambitious politically. It was being as mad as a box of frogs.
    If you compare and contrast the hard work put in by Thatcher and Cameron before they became PM, Truss thought it was easy.

    Truss also seemed to forget that Thatcher put up taxes first to stabilise the economy/finances then was in a position to cut taxes later on.

    Being PM isn't easy.
    The Telegraph is applauding Poland for cutting taxes, and also for achieving higher growth than Britain.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/23/why-tax-cutting-poland-leaving-britains-work-shy-economy-dust/ (£££)
  • So I watched Die Hard last night.

    Still not a Christmas film.

    People who think Die Hard is a Christmas film also think Truss would make/was a fine PM.

    I've never seen Die Hard but have acquired the dvd to watch on Sunday.
    FYI - You'll want to watch the sequels but remember there are just two sequels.

    Die Hard 4 and 5 are awful, if Liz Truss decided to make movies.
    I'm watching all of them over Christmas.

    Will report back.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,394
    Any second and Hannibal will enter the chat...
  • Mr. Eagles, and yet the setting is Christmas. Hence the Christmas party, Christmas songs, Santa hat, and the famous line "Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."

    I think the month of original cinematic release decades is essentially irrelevant.

    Who cares about that?
  • Robbers used drugged cigarettes to steal Rolexes from victims, court told
    Pair jailed for 6 years and 11 months for targeting wealthy victims in order to rob them of their valuables

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/12/22/robbers-used-drugged-cigarettes-steal-rolexes-victims-court/ (£££)

    The Telegraph's crime story offers a timely warning of the dangers of smoking but is there any detail they may have left out from this story? You know, I think there might be. Here are a couple of sentences describing what happened:-

    First victim: They offered him a rolled-up cigarette; second victim:after offering him a roll-up cigarette.

    Dangerous things, roll-ups.
  • Foxy said:

    LOL.

    What are the odds of Truss featuring in the panel?

    Truss's problem wasn't being too ambitious politically. It was being as mad as a box of frogs.
    If you compare and contrast the hard work put in by Thatcher and Cameron before they became PM, Truss thought it was easy.

    Truss also seemed to forget that Thatcher put up taxes first to stabilise the economy/finances then was in a position to cut taxes later on.

    Being PM isn't easy.
    Very few politicians truly understand Thatcher, only the myth of Thatcher.

    She recognised things were complex and spent years on her plan and approach with bright people in the late 70s.

    Then, in office, she was the consummate politician. Often making deals and trade-offs.

    What we think of as Thatcher is the myth and how she changed post 1987, when, coincidentally, she went rapidly out of favour.
  • ping said:

    Regardless of her crazy politics/strategic ineptitude, the thing that really grated with me was her personality.

    It was almost child-like, the way she turned on her parents/teachers and interpreted the behaviour of that air hostess, in her anecdotes during the leadership campaign.

    You can’t expect to be taken seriously as a grown up politician if you try to weaponise your irrational teenage angst.

    She’s barely mature enough to be an MP, let alone hold serious political power.

    What were the Tory members thinking?

    She promised to give older homeowners and savers lots of goodies, paid for by borrowing (which those older homeowners and savers will be too dead to repay).
  • ydoethur said:

    Any second and Hannibal will enter the chat...

    Caesar was discussed on the last thread, in relation to Sunak's ethics adviser I said 'But Caesar's wife must be above suspicion.'
  • So I watched Die Hard last night.

    Still not a Christmas film.

    People who think Die Hard is a Christmas film also think Truss would make/was a fine PM.

    It's Christmassyness is as obvious as the pineapple on your pizza.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,394

    ydoethur said:

    Any second and Hannibal will enter the chat...

    Caesar was discussed on the last thread, in relation to Sunak's ethics adviser I said 'But Caesar's wife must be above suspicion.'
    Cannae add some more classical references?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    So I watched Die Hard last night.

    Still not a Christmas film.

    People who think Die Hard is a Christmas film also think Truss would make/was a fine PM.

    Ho ho ho
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Nah, the problem Truss had she thought her leadership victory gave her landslide majority in the country when she really didn't.

    Still one good thing about Truss, it tells us who are the best anti tipsters on PB.

    I made £1,600 from Truss by backing her as next PM with Hills 2 years ago at 100/1

    So I think that makes me a good tipster on PB :)
    I’m on her for next PM now actually. You’ll thank me later. Nailed on. This was all part of the plan.
  • DougSeal said:

    Nah, the problem Truss had she thought her leadership victory gave her landslide majority in the country when she really didn't.

    Still one good thing about Truss, it tells us who are the best anti tipsters on PB.

    I made £1,600 from Truss by backing her as next PM with Hills 2 years ago at 100/1

    So I think that makes me a good tipster on PB :)
    I’m on her for next PM now actually. You’ll thank me later. Nailed on. This was all part of the plan.
    https://www.begambleaware.org/
  • So I watched Die Hard last night.

    Still not a Christmas film.

    People who think Die Hard is a Christmas film also think Truss would make/was a fine PM.

    Around my way "Yippee-ki-yay motherfucker" is interchangeable with Merry Christmas
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,635
    edited December 2022
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Any second and Hannibal will enter the chat...

    Caesar was discussed on the last thread, in relation to Sunak's ethics adviser I said 'But Caesar's wife must be above suspicion.'
    Cannae add some more classical references?
    Julius Caesar is the most famous Caesar in history and a byword for Emperor.

    Hannibal Barca isn't even the most famous Hannibal in history with Hannibal Lecter and Col John 'Hannibal' Smith more famous. Heck even Hannibal Smith was a better military strategist than the loser from Carthage.
  • DavidL said:

    The whole Truss episode still seems like a surreal dream. People obviously point to the KamiKwasi budget but she really did nothing in her brief period of power to suggest that she was even close to being up to the job.

    Which raises very serious question marks about the fitness of the Conservative party membership to be involved in determining who is our PM. The same membership, of course, who thought IDS was a good idea for, well, anything really. It's not as if Labour's membership is any better. Repeatedly voting for Corbyn when almost the entire Parliamentary party were fully aware that he was totally unsuited to the role was equally eccentric.

    I think both parties need to have a serious think and discussion about this. Democracy only works when the electorate is both informed and sane. The membership of our major parties are neither. So how do we choose?

    Let the members elect representatives to the leadership council, but not select the CEO.

    This is just how lots of organisations and charities do it.
  • Mr. Eagles, ah, Caesar. The man for whom victory meant get murdered by his own side within a year, whereas Hannibal's defeat saw him rule his nation.

    The complacency of Gergovia, Dyrrachium, and the Ides of March are the hallmarks of Caesar. Whereas Hannibal was hamstrung by the foolish political antics of Hanno, Rome's greatest ally.

    Compare the finest battles. Who speaks of Pharsalus in the same breath as Cannae, save to compare the predictable with the incredible?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,394

    Mr. Eagles, ah, Caesar. The man for whom victory meant get murdered by his own side within a year, whereas Hannibal's defeat saw him rule his nation.

    The complacency of Gergovia, Dyrrachium, and the Ides of March are the hallmarks of Caesar. Whereas Hannibal was hamstrung by the foolish political antics of Hanno, Rome's greatest ally.

    Compare the finest battles. Who speaks of Pharsalus in the same breath as Cannae, save to compare the predictable with the incredible?

    Knew I could get them going *smug face*
  • Mr. Doethur, it wouldn't be Christmas if I didn't have to try, once more, to educate Mr. Eagles about classical history and Die Hard.

    One day, he might learn.
  • Perhaps, Mike, you should reactivate the PB Poster of the Year competition.

    None of them would probably win that too.
  • Mr. Eagles, ah, Caesar. The man for whom victory meant get murdered by his own side within a year, whereas Hannibal's defeat saw him rule his nation.

    The complacency of Gergovia, Dyrrachium, and the Ides of March are the hallmarks of Caesar. Whereas Hannibal was hamstrung by the foolish political antics of Hanno, Rome's greatest ally.

    Compare the finest battles. Who speaks of Pharsalus in the same breath as Cannae, save to compare the predictable with the incredible?

    Caesar wins the important wars, Hannibal loses them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,394
    edited December 2022

    Perhaps, Mike, you should reactivate the PB Poster of the Year competition.

    None of them would probably win that too.

    None of them are qualified for that.

    But one of them is the least shit of the three.

    So far, that's Sunak, who hasn't misled Parliament, been accused of corruption or blown up his own premiership through mindless arrogance and stupidity.

    The fact that he's the idiot who thought Nick Gibb and Suella Braverman were fit to serve in government does say a lot and not in a good way, but he's still better than his rivals.
  • Mr. Eagles, Hannibal was not in command of the political situation, unlike Caesar. And Caesar's triumph depended on a weak opponent meekly following him.

    Hannibal faced serious opposition from Marcellus, Nero, Scipio, Quintus Fabius Maximus. Caesar's opponents were a massively outmanned Vercingetorix and a feeble Pompey.
  • Glad to hear that, King Cole.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,394
    Jonathan said:

    In defence of Truss, she did save us from Boris at HM funeral. For that at least we must be grateful.

    Johnson will be sick as a parrot for the rest of his life about that.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,811
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/06b334a4-8229-11ed-ab78-11b70ed96428?shareToken=4c37dcd225448fccee98f29b9b6e407b

    Two weeks later the nation starts paying attention. Labour should have been on this since then hammering the capitalist exploiters, the government and anyone else they could think of, now Shapps is taking the lead so if petrol prices start to fall and margins fall it will be the government who gets credit.

    Labour are going to win by default in 2024, not because they're any good. For over a month the public have been being ripped off by the petrol forecourt cartel and they've been completely silent.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Foxy said:

    LOL.

    What are the odds of Truss featuring in the panel?

    Truss's problem wasn't being too ambitious politically. It was being as mad as a box of frogs.
    If you compare and contrast the hard work put in by Thatcher and Cameron before they became PM, Truss thought it was easy.

    Truss also seemed to forget that Thatcher put up taxes first to stabilise the economy/finances then was in a position to cut taxes later on.

    Being PM isn't easy.
    Some people are now trying to argue Truss was right because she wanted to focus on generating growth.

    Kind of how I was right that I needed to focus on losing weight, even if my actual actions included no exercise and gorging myself on snacks.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,941
    So despite Tory MPs removing Boris he still beats Sunak and Truss combined as PM of the year by 8%.

    Rishi as PM has repaired some of the damage of Truss as PM, with the Tories falling below 20% in some polls under Truss. However hard not to think at the moment the Conservatives would have been better off keeping Boris, too late to go back now
  • Mr. HYUFD, I may vote for the Conservatives with Sunak as leader. If they bring back Boris Johnson as PM, I will not be.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/06b334a4-8229-11ed-ab78-11b70ed96428?shareToken=4c37dcd225448fccee98f29b9b6e407b

    Two weeks later the nation starts paying attention. Labour should have been on this since then hammering the capitalist exploiters, the government and anyone else they could think of, now Shapps is taking the lead so if petrol prices start to fall and margins fall it will be the government who gets credit.

    Labour are going to win by default in 2024, not because they're any good. For over a month the public have been being ripped off by the petrol forecourt cartel and they've been completely silent.

    Government don't get credit for things, especially when they are already disliked, people see it as what they are due.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    The idea Ceasar was a failure because he got murdered strikes me as extremely bizarre. Was Lincoln abolishing slavery meaningless because he was cavalier about defending against assassins? What Ceasars successor was able to build because of his actions, and how that endured, seems pretty relevant.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,394
    edited December 2022
    kle4 said:

    The idea Ceasar was a failure because he got murdered strikes me as extremely bizarre. Was Lincoln abolishing slavery meaningless because he was cavalier about defending against assassins? What Ceasars successor was able to build because of his actions, and how that endured, seems pretty relevant.

    Wasn't Mark Antony murdered as well though? (Well, obliged to commit suicide.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    edited December 2022
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    The idea Ceasar was a failure because he got murdered strikes me as extremely bizarre. Was Lincoln abolishing slavery meaningless because he was cavalier about defending against assassins? What Ceasars successor was able to build because of his actions, and how that endured, seems pretty relevant.

    Wasn't Mark Antony murdered as well though?
    Cicero, too. And rather a lot of other folk, not even counting the squaddies, natives, etc. etc.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    edited December 2022
    ping said:

    Regardless of her crazy politics/strategic ineptitude, the thing that really grated with me was her personality.

    It was almost child-like, the way she turned on her parents/teachers and interpreted the behaviour of that air hostess, in her anecdotes during the leadership campaign.

    You can’t expect to be taken seriously as a grown up politician if you try to weaponise your irrational teenage angst.

    She’s barely mature enough to be an MP, let alone hold serious political power.

    What were the Tory members thinking?

    Everyone must seem a teenager from their ancient point of view. So Ms Truss wouldn't stand out.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/06b334a4-8229-11ed-ab78-11b70ed96428?shareToken=4c37dcd225448fccee98f29b9b6e407b

    Two weeks later the nation starts paying attention. Labour should have been on this since then hammering the capitalist exploiters, the government and anyone else they could think of, now Shapps is taking the lead so if petrol prices start to fall and margins fall it will be the government who gets credit.

    Labour are going to win by default in 2024, not because they're any good. For over a month the public have been being ripped off by the petrol forecourt cartel and they've been completely silent.

    Aye - I paid/saw the true prices yesterday

    Just under £1.40 for unleaded and £1.57 for diesel.

    Costco are seemingly the only game in town charging fairly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    DavidL said:

    The whole Truss episode still seems like a surreal dream. People obviously point to the KamiKwasi budget but she really did nothing in her brief period of power to suggest that she was even close to being up to the job.

    Which raises very serious question marks about the fitness of the Conservative party membership to be involved in determining who is our PM. The same membership, of course, who thought IDS was a good idea for, well, anything really. It's not as if Labour's membership is any better. Repeatedly voting for Corbyn when almost the entire Parliamentary party were fully aware that he was totally unsuited to the role was equally eccentric.

    I think both parties need to have a serious think and discussion about this. Democracy only works when the electorate is both informed and sane. The membership of our major parties are neither. So how do we choose?

    Let the members elect representatives to the leadership council, but not select the CEO.

    This is just how lots of organisations and charities do it.
    The bizarre thing is not that some members are miffed they didn't get to choose the latest PM, of course they are, but how some think it an absolute outrage or democratic failing. We've even seen people say what's the point of being a member then.

    It's like they have no clue how recent it is it even became a thing. Despite lies from some MP moaners member figures continued their general trend after the rule came in. And they seem to have no sense or what to do in an urgent situation.

    Christ, they are moaning about not voting for Sunak but the fact is no one stood against him, even though Boris could have.
  • Mr. kle4, be fair. Caesar was allegedly warned and shrugged it off, and he had shown complacency on other occasions too, with reckless attacks at Gergovia and Dyrrachium, both of which failed.

    He didn't have to accept being named dictator for life. Admittedly with the benefit of his predecessor's example of how not to do things, Augustus never sought or accepted such a title and claimed to be merely the Princeps. He was always careful to respect the Senate and while pre-eminent in power did not try to assert the dictatorial authority (in the Roman sense) that Caesar had been content to claim.
  • Mr. HYUFD, I may vote for the Conservatives with Sunak as leader. If they bring back Boris Johnson as PM, I will not be.

    Yeah, but you are sane, Morris. Have you ever looked at the massed ranks at the Tory Party Conference?

    Have a Happy Christmas. I'm off to start my shopping.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    Regardless of her crazy politics/strategic ineptitude, the thing that really grated with me was her personality.

    It was almost child-like, the way she turned on her parents/teachers and interpreted the behaviour of that air hostess, in her anecdotes during the leadership campaign.

    You can’t expect to be taken seriously as a grown up politician if you try to weaponise your irrational teenage angst.

    She’s barely mature enough to be an MP, let alone hold serious political power.

    What were the Tory members thinking?

    Everyone must seem a teenager from their ancient point of view. So Ms Truss wouldn't stand out.
    Well if its age then the alternative candidate was even less mature to them.

    Truss had 12 years as an MP and 8 years in senior posts. She wasnt widely hated. On paper she looked ok.

    Even her pandering in the leadership campaign is what you'd expect. Her problem wasnt lack of experience it was that she didn't prepare her MPs for her plans, and had zero answers for the press or public either when there was a bad reaction. Her problem was laziness.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,309
    edited December 2022
    Talking of Ancient Rome, I’ve got ChatGPT - who seems to have perked up again - writing good scenes from a ghost story. The ghost is talking in Latin. It has just said:

    "Misericordia mea effusa est sicut aqua." - "My mercy has been poured out like water."

    That’s such a striking phrase. Where is it from? Has ChatGPT completely invented this, in Latin?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    edited December 2022
    Mr. Punter, *start* your shopping?!

    Incidentally, the 1812 Overture is splendid. Interesting that the Battle Symphony is less heard nowadays.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eWxroBVRaY

    Edited extra bit: it may be because the musket is one of the rarer instruments these days...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,811
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/06b334a4-8229-11ed-ab78-11b70ed96428?shareToken=4c37dcd225448fccee98f29b9b6e407b

    Two weeks later the nation starts paying attention. Labour should have been on this since then hammering the capitalist exploiters, the government and anyone else they could think of, now Shapps is taking the lead so if petrol prices start to fall and margins fall it will be the government who gets credit.

    Labour are going to win by default in 2024, not because they're any good. For over a month the public have been being ripped off by the petrol forecourt cartel and they've been completely silent.

    Aye - I paid/saw the true prices yesterday

    Just under £1.40 for unleaded and £1.57 for diesel.

    Costco are seemingly the only game in town charging fairly.
    Yes, for me this is the biggest issue of the day alongside Ukraine. It is immediate relief for families and working people plus it knocks about 1.5% off CPI inflation and another 2-3% next month as lower prices feed into the onwards chain. The government has been slow the act and the opposition is absolutely nowhere. Blair would have been all over this like a cheap suit, instinctively he knew what voters care about most, and lower petrol prices pretty close to top of the list.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    DavidL said:

    The whole Truss episode still seems like a surreal dream. People obviously point to the KamiKwasi budget but she really did nothing in her brief period of power to suggest that she was even close to being up to the job.

    Which raises very serious question marks about the fitness of the Conservative party membership to be involved in determining who is our PM. The same membership, of course, who thought IDS was a good idea for, well, anything really. It's not as if Labour's membership is any better. Repeatedly voting for Corbyn when almost the entire Parliamentary party were fully aware that he was totally unsuited to the role was equally eccentric.

    I think both parties need to have a serious think and discussion about this. Democracy only works when the electorate is both informed and sane. The membership of our major parties are neither. So how do we choose?

    It's not hard. Members can choose their local MP. MPs can choose their leader. They are the only electorate that has a chance of being meaningfully informed, and we've seen what happens when revolutionary radicals like Corbyn or Jscob Rees-Mogg then cause chaos by claiming MPs should have no say because members have spoken
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,309
    Ah. ChatGPT has just enlightened me


    “Misericordia mea effusa est sicut aqua" is a quote from the Bible, specifically from the Old Testament book of Lamentations. It appears in chapter 3, verse 22 and is often translated as "The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end." The phrase is often used to express the idea of God's enduring love and mercy.

    I hope this additional context is helpful. Please let me know if you have any further questions.”
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,309
    So ChatGPT can pluck really resonant Latin phrases from many sources of literature, to furnish a play/story 😶
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    kle4 said:



    Well if its age then the alternative candidate was even less mature to them.

    Truss had 12 years as an MP and 8 years in senior posts. She wasnt widely hated. On paper she looked ok.

    Lavrov. It was obvious after the Lavrov incident that she was too lackwitted and unstable for high office.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Mr. kle4, be fair. Caesar was allegedly warned and shrugged it off, and he had shown complacency on other occasions too, with reckless attacks at Gergovia and Dyrrachium, both of which failed.

    He didn't have to accept being named dictator for life. Admittedly with the benefit of his predecessor's example of how not to do things, Augustus never sought or accepted such a title and claimed to be merely the Princeps. He was always careful to respect the Senate and while pre-eminent in power did not try to assert the dictatorial authority (in the Roman sense) that Caesar had been content to claim.

    I think a lot of histories greats also had reckless acts and failures. Napoleon springs to mind. When you're that bold you overreach. Augustus being a genius consolidater doesn't mean he could have done it without what Ceasar built, and indeed how caesar disrupted and failed.
  • kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    Regardless of her crazy politics/strategic ineptitude, the thing that really grated with me was her personality.

    It was almost child-like, the way she turned on her parents/teachers and interpreted the behaviour of that air hostess, in her anecdotes during the leadership campaign.

    You can’t expect to be taken seriously as a grown up politician if you try to weaponise your irrational teenage angst.

    She’s barely mature enough to be an MP, let alone hold serious political power.

    What were the Tory members thinking?

    Everyone must seem a teenager from their ancient point of view. So Ms Truss wouldn't stand out.
    Well if its age then the alternative candidate was even less mature to them.

    Truss had 12 years as an MP and 8 years in senior posts. She wasnt widely hated. On paper she looked ok.

    Even her pandering in the leadership campaign is what you'd expect. Her problem wasnt lack of experience it was that she didn't prepare her MPs for her plans, and had zero answers for the press or public either when there was a bad reaction. Her problem was laziness.
    In some ways, she was the Conservative echo of Corbyn. Both of them decided what they thought about everything at the age of about fourteen and saw it as a strength that they never deviated from that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    Leon said:

    Talking of Ancient Rome, I’ve got ChatGPT - who seems to have perked up again - writing good scenes from a ghost story. The ghost is talking in Latin. It has just said:

    "Misericordia mea effusa est sicut aqua." - "My mercy has been poured out like water."

    That’s such a striking phrase. Where is it from? Has ChatGPT completely invented this, in Latin?

    Could be a mashup from different psalms, changing the gender to match.

    'Mea' would imply it is God, and I'm doubtful about that (doesn't sound right as a whole). But 'tua' is commoner it seems.

    http://www.sacredbible.org/studybible/OT-21_Psalms.htm

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,941

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    Regardless of her crazy politics/strategic ineptitude, the thing that really grated with me was her personality.

    It was almost child-like, the way she turned on her parents/teachers and interpreted the behaviour of that air hostess, in her anecdotes during the leadership campaign.

    You can’t expect to be taken seriously as a grown up politician if you try to weaponise your irrational teenage angst.

    She’s barely mature enough to be an MP, let alone hold serious political power.

    What were the Tory members thinking?

    Everyone must seem a teenager from their ancient point of view. So Ms Truss wouldn't stand out.
    Well if its age then the alternative candidate was even less mature to them.

    Truss had 12 years as an MP and 8 years in senior posts. She wasnt widely hated. On paper she looked ok.

    Even her pandering in the leadership campaign is what you'd expect. Her problem wasnt lack of experience it was that she didn't prepare her MPs for her plans, and had zero answers for the press or public either when there was a bad reaction. Her problem was laziness.
    In some ways, she was the Conservative echo of Corbyn. Both of them decided what they thought about everything at the age of about fourteen and saw it as a strength that they never deviated from that.
    Except Corbyn was actually a socialist. Truss wasn't even a conservative really but a libertarian
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    The best thing about Manchester has always been it's sense of humour!

    Great question Omnisis.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    Leon said:

    Ah. ChatGPT has just enlightened me


    “Misericordia mea effusa est sicut aqua" is a quote from the Bible, specifically from the Old Testament book of Lamentations. It appears in chapter 3, verse 22 and is often translated as "The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end." The phrase is often used to express the idea of God's enduring love and mercy.

    I hope this additional context is helpful. Please let me know if you have any further questions.”

    Are you sure of that? 'mea' is 'my'.
  • Mr. kle4, Napoleon, however, declined in ability as he aged (not off a cliff, but still) and underestimated Russia, failing to predict how war would unravel there. Caesar's failings due to complacency occurred throughout his time in multiple parts of the world (in war: Gaul, Britannia, and Dyrrachium, and in peace Rome itself). He succeeded overall in Gaul and the Civil War due to the Gauls uniting too late and Pompey being feeble.

    Caesar was logistically excellent and had a great strategic mind, for the most part, but tactically he was simplistic compared to Hannibal (and faced weaker opposition). Making reckless attacks that fail is not the hallmark of a general to compare with Alexander or Hannibal. That complacency carried through to his assumption not merely of the function but the title of absolute power. And that in a nation where the name of king was anathema.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    Regardless of her crazy politics/strategic ineptitude, the thing that really grated with me was her personality.

    It was almost child-like, the way she turned on her parents/teachers and interpreted the behaviour of that air hostess, in her anecdotes during the leadership campaign.

    You can’t expect to be taken seriously as a grown up politician if you try to weaponise your irrational teenage angst.

    She’s barely mature enough to be an MP, let alone hold serious political power.

    What were the Tory members thinking?

    Everyone must seem a teenager from their ancient point of view. So Ms Truss wouldn't stand out.
    Well if its age then the alternative candidate was even less mature to them.

    Truss had 12 years as an MP and 8 years in senior posts. She wasnt widely hated. On paper she looked ok.

    Even her pandering in the leadership campaign is what you'd expect. Her problem wasnt lack of experience it was that she didn't prepare her MPs for her plans, and had zero answers for the press or public either when there was a bad reaction. Her problem was laziness.
    In some ways, she was the Conservative echo of Corbyn. Both of them decided what they thought about everything at the age of about fourteen and saw it as a strength that they never deviated from that.
    Except Corbyn was actually a socialist. Truss wasn't even a conservative really but a libertarian
    Except she was elected by MPs and members of the "Conservative" Party.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,941
    edited December 2022

    Mr. HYUFD, I may vote for the Conservatives with Sunak as leader. If they bring back Boris Johnson as PM, I will not be.

    Maybe but that is not the norm. Before Boris was ousted the Conservatives were polling about 30 to 35%, under Truss they were polling about 20 to 25%, now under Sunak they are polling about 25 to 30%. So overall still worse than Boris was.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#Graphical_summary

    You are about the only PBer on here not voting Tory under Boris and telling the Tories to get rid of Boris now voting Tory under Sunak
  • Mr. HYUFD, I am content to be correct and in a minority.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,802
    HYUFD said:

    Mr. HYUFD, I may vote for the Conservatives with Sunak as leader. If they bring back Boris Johnson as PM, I will not be.

    Maybe but that is not the norm. Before Boris was ousted the Conservatives were polling about 30 to 35%, under Truss they were polling about 20 to 25%, now under Sunak they are polling about 25 to 30%. So overall still worse than Boris was.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#Graphical_summary

    You are about the only PBer on here not voting Tory under Boris and telling the Tories to get rid of Boris now voting Tory under Sunak
    I'm in Morris's camp too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,394
    edited December 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:



    Well if its age then the alternative candidate was even less mature to them.

    Truss had 12 years as an MP and 8 years in senior posts. She wasnt widely hated. On paper she looked ok.

    Lavrov. It was obvious after the Lavrov incident that she was too lackwitted and unstable for high office.
    My late mother couldn't read maps.

    But there's not reading maps and not reading maps.

    The first duty of a foreign secretary is to have some idea of where the borders of the country in question are.

    Doesn't detract from the fact Lavrov's a lightweight dick who makes Acland-Hood look competent and Cummings look honest, but it was just extraordinary Truss hadn't even read a briefing note.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,394
    algarkirk said:

    Apologies if we have already noted this piece of Matt genius, not to be missed

    https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1605981531448672259

    What do we want? An emergency stop! When do we want it? NOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    "I think that that is a bit unfair on Liz Truss"

    No, it really isn't.

    It's only unfair personally but she should never have self-promoted for a job that was far beyond her capabilities.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    algarkirk said:

    Apologies if we have already noted this piece of Matt genius, not to be missed

    https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1605981531448672259

    Haha that's very good!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited December 2022
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Apologies if we have already noted this piece of Matt genius, not to be missed

    https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1605981531448672259

    What do we want? An emergency stop! When do we want it? NOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!
    cancel
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,941
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    Regardless of her crazy politics/strategic ineptitude, the thing that really grated with me was her personality.

    It was almost child-like, the way she turned on her parents/teachers and interpreted the behaviour of that air hostess, in her anecdotes during the leadership campaign.

    You can’t expect to be taken seriously as a grown up politician if you try to weaponise your irrational teenage angst.

    She’s barely mature enough to be an MP, let alone hold serious political power.

    What were the Tory members thinking?

    Everyone must seem a teenager from their ancient point of view. So Ms Truss wouldn't stand out.
    Well if its age then the alternative candidate was even less mature to them.

    Truss had 12 years as an MP and 8 years in senior posts. She wasnt widely hated. On paper she looked ok.

    Even her pandering in the leadership campaign is what you'd expect. Her problem wasnt lack of experience it was that she didn't prepare her MPs for her plans, and had zero answers for the press or public either when there was a bad reaction. Her problem was laziness.
    In some ways, she was the Conservative echo of Corbyn. Both of them decided what they thought about everything at the age of about fourteen and saw it as a strength that they never deviated from that.
    Except Corbyn was actually a socialist. Truss wasn't even a conservative really but a libertarian
    Except she was elected by MPs and members of the "Conservative" Party.
    So what, she was still an ex LD libertarian who managed to fool some Tories for a few months before they forced her out anyway
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,394
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. HYUFD, I may vote for the Conservatives with Sunak as leader. If they bring back Boris Johnson as PM, I will not be.

    Maybe but that is not the norm. Before Boris was ousted the Conservatives were polling about 30 to 35%, under Truss they were polling about 20 to 25%, now under Sunak they are polling about 25 to 30%. So overall still worse than Boris was.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#Graphical_summary

    You are about the only PBer on here not voting Tory under Boris and telling the Tories to get rid of Boris now voting Tory under Sunak
    I'm in Morris's camp too.
    I suppose I am, in the sense I can just about imagine myself voting for a party led by Sunak, although I think it unlikely I will in practice.

    If Johnson returns I'd vote Labour even if they were led by Richard Burgon or Zarah Sultana.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    In defence of Truss, she did save us from Boris at HM funeral. For that at least we must be grateful.

    Johnson will be sick as a parrot for the rest of his life about that.
    Genuinely believe Her Maj hung on till he effed off, and died happy knowing spaffer wouldn't get a plum role at the festivities.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    .
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    The whole Truss episode still seems like a surreal dream. People obviously point to the KamiKwasi budget but she really did nothing in her brief period of power to suggest that she was even close to being up to the job.

    Which raises very serious question marks about the fitness of the Conservative party membership to be involved in determining who is our PM. The same membership, of course, who thought IDS was a good idea for, well, anything really. It's not as if Labour's membership is any better. Repeatedly voting for Corbyn when almost the entire Parliamentary party were fully aware that he was totally unsuited to the role was equally eccentric.

    I think both parties need to have a serious think and discussion about this. Democracy only works when the electorate is both informed and sane. The membership of our major parties are neither. So how do we choose?

    It's not hard. Members can choose their local MP. MPs can choose their leader. They are the only electorate that has a chance of being meaningfully informed, and we've seen what happens when revolutionary radicals like Corbyn or Jscob Rees-Mogg then cause chaos by claiming MPs should have no say because members have spoken
    It is the MPs fault. The members can only vote for whomever is put forward by the MPs.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    algarkirk said:

    Apologies if we have already noted this piece of Matt genius, not to be missed

    https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1605981531448672259

    His best this year!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,394
    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    In defence of Truss, she did save us from Boris at HM funeral. For that at least we must be grateful.

    Johnson will be sick as a parrot for the rest of his life about that.
    Genuinely believe Her Maj hung on till he effed off, and died happy knowing spaffer wouldn't get a plum role at the festivities.
    Well, she did pledge her life would be devoted to our service...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,941
    Heathener said:

    "I think that that is a bit unfair on Liz Truss"

    No, it really isn't.

    It's only unfair personally but she should never have self-promoted for a job that was far beyond her capabilities.

    She managed Foreign Secretary fine and got lots of trade deals post Brexit before that.

    It was her mad policies that did for her and crashed the markets, not that she was thick or incompetent
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    Regardless of her crazy politics/strategic ineptitude, the thing that really grated with me was her personality.

    It was almost child-like, the way she turned on her parents/teachers and interpreted the behaviour of that air hostess, in her anecdotes during the leadership campaign.

    You can’t expect to be taken seriously as a grown up politician if you try to weaponise your irrational teenage angst.

    She’s barely mature enough to be an MP, let alone hold serious political power.

    What were the Tory members thinking?

    Everyone must seem a teenager from their ancient point of view. So Ms Truss wouldn't stand out.
    Well if its age then the alternative candidate was even less mature to them.

    Truss had 12 years as an MP and 8 years in senior posts. She wasnt widely hated. On paper she looked ok.

    Even her pandering in the leadership campaign is what you'd expect. Her problem wasnt lack of experience it was that she didn't prepare her MPs for her plans, and had zero answers for the press or public either when there was a bad reaction. Her problem was laziness.
    In some ways, she was the Conservative echo of Corbyn. Both of them decided what they thought about everything at the age of about fourteen and saw it as a strength that they never deviated from that.
    Except Corbyn was actually a socialist. Truss wasn't even a conservative really but a libertarian
    Let's not be too politically polite about her. Thatcher was not a conservative really but a libertarian and I don't want to associate Liz Truss with Margaret Thatcher.

    The best adjective for Truss is that she was an incompetent.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:



    Well if its age then the alternative candidate was even less mature to them.

    Truss had 12 years as an MP and 8 years in senior posts. She wasnt widely hated. On paper she looked ok.

    Lavrov. It was obvious after the Lavrov incident that she was too lackwitted and unstable for high office.
    My late mother couldn't read maps.

    But there's not reading maps and not reading maps.

    The first duty of a foreign secretary is to have some idea of where the borders of the country in question are.

    Doesn't detract from the fact Lavrov's a lightweight dick who makes Acland-Hood look competent and Cummings look honest, but it was just extraordinary Truss hadn't even read a briefing note.
    Not knowing is one thing but she didn't have the wit to realise she didn't know and deflect the question. Instead she just doubled down.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,309
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ah. ChatGPT has just enlightened me


    “Misericordia mea effusa est sicut aqua" is a quote from the Bible, specifically from the Old Testament book of Lamentations. It appears in chapter 3, verse 22 and is often translated as "The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end." The phrase is often used to express the idea of God's enduring love and mercy.

    I hope this additional context is helpful. Please let me know if you have any further questions.”

    Are you sure of that? 'mea' is 'my'.
    Curioser and curioser!
  • Mr. HYUFD, some might suggest having mad policies is indicative of incompetence...
  • HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    "I think that that is a bit unfair on Liz Truss"

    No, it really isn't.

    It's only unfair personally but she should never have self-promoted for a job that was far beyond her capabilities.

    She managed Foreign Secretary fine and got lots of trade deals post Brexit before that.

    It was her mad policies that did for her and crashed the markets, not that she was thick or incompetent
    Comedy genius! AI chat bots won't get to your level for a long time yet, they would rule out such a post as simply too absurd.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Jonathan said:

    In defence of Truss, she did save us from Boris at HM funeral. For that at least we must be grateful.

    Well only because she first killed the Queen.

    [jokes]
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,941

    Mr. HYUFD, some might suggest having mad policies is indicative of incompetence...

    No you can be competent implementing mad policies, as she was. Just the consequences of the said mad policies mean you won't last too long
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Any second and Hannibal will enter the chat...

    Caesar was discussed on the last thread, in relation to Sunak's ethics adviser I said 'But Caesar's wife must be above suspicion.'
    Cannae add some more classical references?
    It's all a bit Juvenal, to be honest.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,309
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ah. ChatGPT has just enlightened me


    “Misericordia mea effusa est sicut aqua" is a quote from the Bible, specifically from the Old Testament book of Lamentations. It appears in chapter 3, verse 22 and is often translated as "The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end." The phrase is often used to express the idea of God's enduring love and mercy.

    I hope this additional context is helpful. Please let me know if you have any further questions.”

    Are you sure of that? 'mea' is 'my'.
    I think you’re right

    “Misericordia mea effusa est sicut aqua“ does not get any google hits. So it seems that ChatGPT invented it out of nothing, then - when quizzed - felt weirdly guilty and created a bogus but plausible sounding Biblical source
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,309
    You can see why creative types are simultaneously exhilarated by, and terrified of, ChatGPT and, soon, GPT4
This discussion has been closed.