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The best election bet – LAB NOT to get a majority – politicalbetting.com

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  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    That also required an enormous amount of work to replan literally every lesson

    Yes, buried in there, there it is.
    And?
    And, that increase in workload has biased you against him.

    You could be right in your critiques of him. But nonetheless they are unsafe to rely on.
    Driver, those are facts. And they are his responsibility.

    It doesn't matter whether I'm biased in favour of him or not. Facts don't change. As Ronald Reagan failed to say, they are stubborn things.

    Are you saying - for example - that I am wrong about the assessment criteria? Or about how long it takes the new GCSEs? Or about the pass marks? Merely because I'm angry that he messed up his timetable so I had no time off for two years trying to sort the mess out?

    I'm thinking it's you that's too close to the subject. You appear emotionally invested in a failed system that you've been conned into thinking is somehow brilliant because you don't know much about it and you don't want to hear from people who do. Of course, you're not alone in this. Hyufd is much the same, as are many others e.g. ConHome.

    Gibb is objectively, a failure who has done appalling damage to millions of children out of mindless arrogance. That's also a fact. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

    Anyway, I have to go. Hope I have given you food for thought at least.
    Although sometimes experts can be too close to the details (my example of the only time consultants are useful is when you can't see the woods for the trees) generally it is sensible to listen to experts. So I weigh your opinion on education way above mine or Drivers. For the same reason I go to a mechanic when my car doesn't work and the Doctor when I broke my legs and not the other way around.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    That also required an enormous amount of work to replan literally every lesson

    Yes, buried in there, there it is.
    And?
    And, that increase in workload has biased you against him.

    You could be right in your critiques of him. But nonetheless they are unsafe to rely on.
    Driver, those are facts. And they are his responsibility.

    It doesn't matter whether I'm biased in favour of him or not. Facts don't change. As Ronald Reagan failed to say, they are stubborn things.

    Are you saying - for example - that I am wrong about the assessment criteria? Or about how long it takes the new GCSEs? Or about the pass marks? Merely because I'm angry that he messed up his timetable so I had no time off for two years trying to sort the mess out?

    I'm thinking it's you that's too close to the subject. You appear emotionally invested in a failed system that you've been conned into thinking is somehow brilliant because you don't know much about it and you don't want to hear from people who do. Of course, you're not alone in this. Hyufd is much the same, as are many others e.g. ConHome.

    Gibb is objectively, a failure who has done appalling damage to millions of children out of mindless arrogance. That's also a fact. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

    Anyway, I have to go. Hope I have given you food for thought at least.
    Well, we've been seeing children who have been schooled primarily since 2010 for a while, and we're starting to see those who've been schooled entirely since 2010. They don't look appallingly damaged to me.
  • Laying a Lab majority may be a good trading bet but I still think it's more likely than not that they get a majority. My gut tells me they'll get a decent one, too. I don't bet so feel free to ignore, I'm just a random person offering an opinion on the Internet.

    If the public want Party X to have a majority, the hive mind of the electorate is normally pretty good at making that happen. Even if it means flipping lots of seats.
    Not saying you're wrong but how are you getting to these conclusions about what the "public wants" after each election? Is this coming from some kind of polling data?
    Hands up, pure qualitative sniff test.

    But look at the stability of the Conservative vote '79 to '92, or '15 to '19. I think what makes a difference to the MP tally is how fed up the opposition forces are with a Conservative government and how willing they are to use their votes in a locally efficient way.

    Both 1983 and 2019 saw the opposition parties fighting each other, whereas 1992 and 2017 saw them lined up against the Tories. No need for squalid deals, just understanding each other.

    If that's right, we could be in "job lot of brown trousers for CCHQ" territory.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    Laying a Lab majority may be a good trading bet but I still think it's more likely than not that they get a majority. My gut tells me they'll get a decent one, too. I don't bet so feel free to ignore, I'm just a random person offering an opinion on the Internet.

    If the public want Party X to have a majority, the hive mind of the electorate is normally pretty good at making that happen. Even if it means flipping lots of seats.
    Not saying you're wrong but how are you getting to these conclusions about what the "public wants" after each election? Is this coming from some kind of polling data?
    Hands up, pure qualitative sniff test.

    But look at the stability of the Conservative vote '79 to '92, or '15 to '19. I think what makes a difference to the MP tally is how fed up the opposition forces are with a Conservative government and how willing they are to use their votes in a locally efficient way.

    Both 1983 and 2019 saw the opposition parties fighting each other, whereas 1992 and 2017 saw them lined up against the Tories. No need for squalid deals, just understanding each other.

    If that's right, we could be in "job lot of brown trousers for CCHQ" territory.
    The Tories won in 1992 and the SNP certainly aren't lined up to vote for Starmer Labour.

    If Sunak squeezes the RefUK and DKs he could also get the Tory voteshare up to 35%+
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    That also required an enormous amount of work to replan literally every lesson

    Yes, buried in there, there it is.
    And?
    And, that increase in workload has biased you against him.

    You could be right in your critiques of him. But nonetheless they are unsafe to rely on.
    Driver, those are facts. And they are his responsibility.

    It doesn't matter whether I'm biased in favour of him or not. Facts don't change. As Ronald Reagan failed to say, they are stubborn things.

    Are you saying - for example - that I am wrong about the assessment criteria? Or about how long it takes the new GCSEs? Or about the pass marks? Merely because I'm angry that he messed up his timetable so I had no time off for two years trying to sort the mess out?

    I'm thinking it's you that's too close to the subject. You appear emotionally invested in a failed system that you've been conned into thinking is somehow brilliant because you don't know much about it and you don't want to hear from people who do. Of course, you're not alone in this. Hyufd is much the same, as are many others e.g. ConHome.

    Gibb is objectively, a failure who has done appalling damage to millions of children out of mindless arrogance. That's also a fact. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

    Anyway, I have to go. Hope I have given you food for thought at least.
    Well, we've been seeing children who have been schooled primarily since 2010 for a while, and we're starting to see those who've been schooled entirely since 2010. They don't look appallingly damaged to me.
    What are your qualifications to make these assessments Driver compared to @ydoethur? Don't you think there is a chance he knows more about it than you?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    There will be swingback to the Tories but maybe not a lot …

    https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2022/12/is-labour-really-heading-for-a-314-seat-majority

    The Trades unions are doing their best to remind people not to vote Labour
    Just a gentle reminder that the current wave of industrial action is under a Conservative government. Trouble with the Trades Unions under the last Labour government? Pretty rare.
    Trouble with the Trades Unions under the Wilson and Callaghan Labour governments in the late 1960s and 1970s when inflation was higher like now though very frequent.

    Fair to say Heath's Tory government also had problems with the unions and strikes and inflation but it was Thatcher who sorted it out and with Major brought down inflation to Blair's benefit. Inflation is back again now though
    Thatcher also had a lot of issues with strikes and was only able to muscle through due to a combination of her own perseverence, North Sea Oil revenues and, crucially, the Falklands.
    Yep events are critical. If it wasn't for the Falklands Margaret Thatcher may not have won another term and one of the most important PMs of the 20th century may have been a PM that we would just forget.
    The Falklands War began in April 1982, by March 1982 however the Conservatives were already back ahead on 35% with Gallup with the SDP on 33% and Labour on 30%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1983_United_Kingdom_general_election
    You do understand the words 'may not have' don't you? It doesn't mean 'won't'. I'm simply pointing out that events outside of our control can have dramatic effects.

    Margaret Thatcher is one of the most important PMs of the 20th century. If Argentina had not invaded the Falklands she MAY not (not WON'T) have been PM after the next election in which case she would have just been a footnote. Having had the luck of history she could still have been a footnote, but the fact that she wasn't was then down to her strength and ability (whether you like her or not).
    As I said even before the Argentines had invaded the Falklands Thatcher's Tories were back in front in the polls
    So as @Benpointer suggested and you have actually now confirmed you really don't understand the difference between 'MAY' and 'WON'T'.

    Unbelievable. I never said she wouldn't have won. She may have, she may not have. How do you not get this? How can you create an argument over this?

    She may have won anyway. She may not have. I mean that isn't hard is it?
    You suggested the Falklands war alone was responsible for her victory, that was not the case, for as I showed she was already back in front ahead of the SDP and Labour even before it broke out
    I said no such thing. I said nothing of the sort. Show me. You really don't understand what the word 'MAY' means do you?
    Come on @hyufd where did I say what you claim?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    There will be swingback to the Tories but maybe not a lot …

    https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2022/12/is-labour-really-heading-for-a-314-seat-majority

    The Trades unions are doing their best to remind people not to vote Labour
    That was the approach used by John Major and his government, thinking that most voters see the word "strike" and think "Labour=strike=aaaaaagh", whereas most voters realise that it is more nuanced than that.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    kjh said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    That also required an enormous amount of work to replan literally every lesson

    Yes, buried in there, there it is.
    And?
    And, that increase in workload has biased you against him.

    You could be right in your critiques of him. But nonetheless they are unsafe to rely on.
    Driver, those are facts. And they are his responsibility.

    It doesn't matter whether I'm biased in favour of him or not. Facts don't change. As Ronald Reagan failed to say, they are stubborn things.

    Are you saying - for example - that I am wrong about the assessment criteria? Or about how long it takes the new GCSEs? Or about the pass marks? Merely because I'm angry that he messed up his timetable so I had no time off for two years trying to sort the mess out?

    I'm thinking it's you that's too close to the subject. You appear emotionally invested in a failed system that you've been conned into thinking is somehow brilliant because you don't know much about it and you don't want to hear from people who do. Of course, you're not alone in this. Hyufd is much the same, as are many others e.g. ConHome.

    Gibb is objectively, a failure who has done appalling damage to millions of children out of mindless arrogance. That's also a fact. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

    Anyway, I have to go. Hope I have given you food for thought at least.
    Well, we've been seeing children who have been schooled primarily since 2010 for a while, and we're starting to see those who've been schooled entirely since 2010. They don't look appallingly damaged to me.
    What are your qualifications to make these assessments Driver compared to @ydoethur? Don't you think there is a chance he knows more about it than you?
    I see the young adults when they leave school. I simply don't recognise them as "appallingly damaged", certainly in comparison with previous cohorts.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited December 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    That also required an enormous amount of work to replan literally every lesson

    Yes, buried in there, there it is.
    And?
    And, that increase in workload has biased you against him.

    You could be right in your critiques of him. But nonetheless they are unsafe to rely on.
    Driver, those are facts. And they are his responsibility.

    It doesn't matter whether I'm biased in favour of him or not. Facts don't change. As Ronald Reagan failed to say, they are stubborn things.

    Are you saying - for example - that I am wrong about the assessment criteria? Or about how long it takes the new GCSEs? Or about the pass marks? Merely because I'm angry that he messed up his timetable so I had no time off for two years trying to sort the mess out?

    I'm thinking it's you that's too close to the subject. You appear emotionally invested in a failed system that you've been conned into thinking is somehow brilliant because you don't know much about it and you don't want to hear from people who do. Of course, you're not alone in this. Hyufd is much the same, as are many others e.g. ConHome.

    Gibb is objectively, a failure who has done appalling damage to millions of children out of mindless arrogance. That's also a fact. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

    Anyway, I have to go. Hope I have given you food for thought at least.
    The facts also show an increase to 82% in those reaching the expected reading standard, a rise in England's PISA ranking and a rise in the number of good and outstanding schools.

    Plus clearer differentiation amongst pupils at 16, especially at the top level
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see that the Times has picked up what I wrote yesterday about the appalling appointment of Mike Veale - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-chief-is-in-no-position-to-judge-colleagues-p6kgg0fx6.

    "Everything that is wrong with the upper ranks of British policing — in particular a culture of failing ever upwards — is evident in the case of the former chief constable under investigation for alleged serious misconduct who has just been handed a new job upholding police standards. "

    I have been saying this for years.

    What the actual fuck does the Policing Minister do every day?

    The current government (though I'm not automatically assuming the next one will be
    better) is part of the problem, I think.
    It's not that they're somehow just failing to notice.
    It is enraging. Rewards for failure is one of the biggest reasons why so much in this country is now so crap and getting worse.

    Starmer's elevation of Watson tells me that Labour will be just as bad.

    There is no hope for this country until our leadership cadre - the whole bloody lot of them, no matter what party - is booted out. I wouldn't trust any of them to make me a cup of tea.

    And as for getting the truth out of them, well, it'd be easier to nail jelly to a wall frankly.
    It was one of the more frustrating things about education - seeing people who had been catastrophically awful in one role being moved to another where they were unsurprisingly even worse.

    Edit - I suppose Nick Gibb is an exception to that rule. He's just kept returning to one role and being catastrophically awful in it.
    ConHome thinks Gibb has been great at beating back the blob
    https://conservativehome.com/2022/12/16/gibbs-success-shows-how-the-blob-can-be-beaten/
    ConHome is a blob.
    As is the DoE.

    As is Gibb himself. A vested interest it's impossible to dislodge.
    Gibb pushed phonics for reading, so 82% reached the expected standard by 2019. 86% of schools now good or outstanding too compared to 69% in 2010 with his emphasis on traditional education
    He's a doctrinaire fool.
    As noted above, phonics has its uses. It's exclusive use has had disastrous consequences for a significant minority of learners.

    And "traditional education" did not involve the requirement for massive amounts of useless paperwork.
    He did what a conservative education minister should do and the results with improved literacy and the UK rising up the PISA rankings show

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50563833
    Doctrinaire, and obsessed with league tables.
    Like you.
    Nothing wrong with league tables, the more of them the better as far as I am concerned
    Including "value added" league tables for schools?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    Driver said:

    kjh said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    That also required an enormous amount of work to replan literally every lesson

    Yes, buried in there, there it is.
    And?
    And, that increase in workload has biased you against him.

    You could be right in your critiques of him. But nonetheless they are unsafe to rely on.
    Driver, those are facts. And they are his responsibility.

    It doesn't matter whether I'm biased in favour of him or not. Facts don't change. As Ronald Reagan failed to say, they are stubborn things.

    Are you saying - for example - that I am wrong about the assessment criteria? Or about how long it takes the new GCSEs? Or about the pass marks? Merely because I'm angry that he messed up his timetable so I had no time off for two years trying to sort the mess out?

    I'm thinking it's you that's too close to the subject. You appear emotionally invested in a failed system that you've been conned into thinking is somehow brilliant because you don't know much about it and you don't want to hear from people who do. Of course, you're not alone in this. Hyufd is much the same, as are many others e.g. ConHome.

    Gibb is objectively, a failure who has done appalling damage to millions of children out of mindless arrogance. That's also a fact. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

    Anyway, I have to go. Hope I have given you food for thought at least.
    Well, we've been seeing children who have been schooled primarily since 2010 for a while, and we're starting to see those who've been schooled entirely since 2010. They don't look appallingly damaged to me.
    What are your qualifications to make these assessments Driver compared to @ydoethur? Don't you think there is a chance he knows more about it than you?
    I see the young adults when they leave school. I simply don't recognise them as "appallingly damaged", certainly in comparison with previous cohorts.
    Not the question. I asked what your qualifications were compared to @ydoethur to make these assessments and asked whether there was a chance he knew more about it than you, unless you think that answer made you more qualified.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    Pakistan all out. 5 wickets for Ahmed on debut!
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    kjh said:

    Driver said:

    kjh said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    That also required an enormous amount of work to replan literally every lesson

    Yes, buried in there, there it is.
    And?
    And, that increase in workload has biased you against him.

    You could be right in your critiques of him. But nonetheless they are unsafe to rely on.
    Driver, those are facts. And they are his responsibility.

    It doesn't matter whether I'm biased in favour of him or not. Facts don't change. As Ronald Reagan failed to say, they are stubborn things.

    Are you saying - for example - that I am wrong about the assessment criteria? Or about how long it takes the new GCSEs? Or about the pass marks? Merely because I'm angry that he messed up his timetable so I had no time off for two years trying to sort the mess out?

    I'm thinking it's you that's too close to the subject. You appear emotionally invested in a failed system that you've been conned into thinking is somehow brilliant because you don't know much about it and you don't want to hear from people who do. Of course, you're not alone in this. Hyufd is much the same, as are many others e.g. ConHome.

    Gibb is objectively, a failure who has done appalling damage to millions of children out of mindless arrogance. That's also a fact. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

    Anyway, I have to go. Hope I have given you food for thought at least.
    Well, we've been seeing children who have been schooled primarily since 2010 for a while, and we're starting to see those who've been schooled entirely since 2010. They don't look appallingly damaged to me.
    What are your qualifications to make these assessments Driver compared to @ydoethur? Don't you think there is a chance he knows more about it than you?
    I see the young adults when they leave school. I simply don't recognise them as "appallingly damaged", certainly in comparison with previous cohorts.
    Not the question. I asked what your qualifications were compared to @ydoethur to make these assessments and asked whether there was a chance he knew more about it than you, unless you think that answer made you more qualified.
    I answered the question, I can't be held responsible if you didn't like the answer.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Cookie said:

    Pakistan all out. 5 wickets for Ahmed on debut!

    Youngest Test debutant to get a Michelle.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Just had a fiver on Pakistan for the win. Not a huge total, but 4th innings on the sub continent, and Bazball can go very wrong, and will do at some point.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    There will be swingback to the Tories but maybe not a lot …

    https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2022/12/is-labour-really-heading-for-a-314-seat-majority

    The Trades unions are doing their best to remind people not to vote Labour
    Just a gentle reminder that the current wave of industrial action is under a Conservative government. Trouble with the Trades Unions under the last Labour government? Pretty rare.
    Trouble with the Trades Unions under the Wilson and Callaghan Labour governments in the late 1960s and 1970s when inflation was higher like now though very frequent.

    Fair to say Heath's Tory government also had problems with the unions and strikes and inflation but it was Thatcher who sorted it out and with Major brought down inflation to Blair's benefit. Inflation is back again now though
    Thatcher also had a lot of issues with strikes and was only able to muscle through due to a combination of her own perseverence, North Sea Oil revenues and, crucially, the Falklands.
    Yep events are critical. If it wasn't for the Falklands Margaret Thatcher may not have won another term and one of the most important PMs of the 20th century may have been a PM that we would just forget.
    The Falklands War began in April 1982, by March 1982 however the Conservatives were already back ahead on 35% with Gallup with the SDP on 33% and Labour on 30%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1983_United_Kingdom_general_election
    You do understand the words 'may not have' don't you? It doesn't mean 'won't'. I'm simply pointing out that events outside of our control can have dramatic effects.

    Margaret Thatcher is one of the most important PMs of the 20th century. If Argentina had not invaded the Falklands she MAY not (not WON'T) have been PM after the next election in which case she would have just been a footnote. Having had the luck of history she could still have been a footnote, but the fact that she wasn't was then down to her strength and ability (whether you like her or not).
    As I said even before the Argentines had invaded the Falklands Thatcher's Tories were back in front in the polls
    One poll, followed by two further ones in which they were behind. Whereas by late April the Tories were back in the 40%s and by May-June touching 50%. Case closed.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see that the Times has picked up what I wrote yesterday about the appalling appointment of Mike Veale - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-chief-is-in-no-position-to-judge-colleagues-p6kgg0fx6.

    "Everything that is wrong with the upper ranks of British policing — in particular a culture of failing ever upwards — is evident in the case of the former chief constable under investigation for alleged serious misconduct who has just been handed a new job upholding police standards. "

    I have been saying this for years.

    What the actual fuck does the Policing Minister do every day?

    The current government (though I'm not automatically assuming the next one will be
    better) is part of the problem, I think.
    It's not that they're somehow just failing to notice.
    It is enraging. Rewards for failure is one of the biggest reasons why so much in this country is now so crap and getting worse.

    Starmer's elevation of Watson tells me that Labour will be just as bad.

    There is no hope for this country until our leadership cadre - the whole bloody lot of them, no matter what party - is booted out. I wouldn't trust any of them to make me a cup of tea.

    And as for getting the truth out of them, well, it'd be easier to nail jelly to a wall frankly.
    It was one of the more frustrating things about education - seeing people who had been catastrophically awful in one role being moved to another where they were unsurprisingly even worse.

    Edit - I suppose Nick Gibb is an exception to that rule. He's just kept returning to one role and being catastrophically awful in it.
    ConHome thinks Gibb has been great at beating back the blob
    https://conservativehome.com/2022/12/16/gibbs-success-shows-how-the-blob-can-be-beaten/
    ConHome is a blob.
    As is the DoE.

    As is Gibb himself. A vested interest it's impossible to dislodge.
    Gibb pushed phonics for reading, so 82% reached the expected standard by 2019. 86% of schools now good or outstanding too compared to 69% in 2010 with his emphasis on traditional education
    He's a doctrinaire fool.
    As noted above, phonics has its uses. It's exclusive use has had disastrous consequences for a significant minority of learners.

    And "traditional education" did not involve the requirement for massive amounts of useless paperwork.
    He did what a conservative education minister should do and the results with improved literacy and the UK rising up the PISA rankings show

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50563833
    Doctrinaire, and obsessed with league tables.
    Like you.
    Nothing wrong with league tables, the more of them the better as far as I am concerned
    Including "value added" league tables for schools?
    Including "number of intelligent contributions to PB"? ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    There will be swingback to the Tories but maybe not a lot …

    https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2022/12/is-labour-really-heading-for-a-314-seat-majority

    The Trades unions are doing their best to remind people not to vote Labour
    Just a gentle reminder that the current wave of industrial action is under a Conservative government. Trouble with the Trades Unions under the last Labour government? Pretty rare.
    Trouble with the Trades Unions under the Wilson and Callaghan Labour governments in the late 1960s and 1970s when inflation was higher like now though very frequent.

    Fair to say Heath's Tory government also had problems with the unions and strikes and inflation but it was Thatcher who sorted it out and with Major brought down inflation to Blair's benefit. Inflation is back again now though
    Thatcher also had a lot of issues with strikes and was only able to muscle through due to a combination of her own perseverence, North Sea Oil revenues and, crucially, the Falklands.
    Yep events are critical. If it wasn't for the Falklands Margaret Thatcher may not have won another term and one of the most important PMs of the 20th century may have been a PM that we would just forget.
    The Falklands War began in April 1982, by March 1982 however the Conservatives were already back ahead on 35% with Gallup with the SDP on 33% and Labour on 30%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1983_United_Kingdom_general_election
    You do understand the words 'may not have' don't you? It doesn't mean 'won't'. I'm simply pointing out that events outside of our control can have dramatic effects.

    Margaret Thatcher is one of the most important PMs of the 20th century. If Argentina had not invaded the Falklands she MAY not (not WON'T) have been PM after the next election in which case she would have just been a footnote. Having had the luck of history she could still have been a footnote, but the fact that she wasn't was then down to her strength and ability (whether you like her or not).
    As I said even before the Argentines had invaded the Falklands Thatcher's Tories were back in front in the polls
    One poll, followed by two further ones in which they were behind. Whereas by late April the Tories were back in the 40%s and by May-June touching 50%. Case closed.
    Nope. Indeed the 2 polls putting Labour 1% ahead and the SDP ahead were taken AFTER the Falklands war had broken out.

    One was from Mori, yet Mori had the Tories 5% ahead in February 1982, 2 months before the Falklands war began.

    The Falklands war victory may have turned a narrow Thatcher re election into a landslide but it did not mean she went from clear defeat to clear victory
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    That also required an enormous amount of work to replan literally every lesson

    Yes, buried in there, there it is.
    And?
    And, that increase in workload has biased you against him.

    You could be right in your critiques of him. But nonetheless they are unsafe to rely on.
    Driver, those are facts. And they are his responsibility.

    It doesn't matter whether I'm biased in favour of him or not. Facts don't change. As Ronald Reagan failed to say, they are stubborn things.

    Are you saying - for example - that I am wrong about the assessment criteria? Or about how long it takes the new GCSEs? Or about the pass marks? Merely because I'm angry that he messed up his timetable so I had no time off for two years trying to sort the mess out?

    I'm thinking it's you that's too close to the subject. You appear emotionally invested in a failed system that you've been conned into thinking is somehow brilliant because you don't know much about it and you don't want to hear from people who do. Of course, you're not alone in this. Hyufd is much the same, as are many others e.g. ConHome.

    Gibb is objectively, a failure who has done appalling damage to millions of children out of mindless arrogance. That's also a fact. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

    Anyway, I have to go. Hope I have given you food for thought at least.
    Did you read his recent profile piece/interview in TES? Paywalled tho: https://www.tes.com/magazine/analysis/general/nick-gibb-interview-we-had-to-blow-up-concrete
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    It's not just Tesla; there are an increasing number of very good EVs on the market:

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/12/an-electric-kia-thats-faster-than-a-lamborghini-the-2023-ev6-gt-driven/

    But at £45,245 OTR for a base model, I won't be getting one soon. :( EV prices need to halve before they become very competitive with the cars we plebs drive.

    Yes, but that is fairly top of the Kia range as a model, even the base variants of the EV6 are fully loaded with kit.

    My 2 1/2 year old Kia e-niro has depreciated about 20% over its 25 000 miles were I to trade it in, about £6 000. That is pretty good compared to historical depreciation. If you can charge at home it is less than half the running costs too. Battery capacity hasn't reduced either over those years.

    Mostly though it is much nicer to drive electric. Once used to the smoothness and power, IC powered cars seem very crude.

    According to this, the base Kia e-niro price is £36,795 OTR.
    https://www.kia.com/uk/new-cars/niro/pricing/

    A base Hyundai I20 (a really nice car (*)) is about £19,035 OTR.

    EVs are still far too expensive for most people.

    (*) Don't snigger, @Dura_Ace ...
    No hate for the i20 (in Thierry Neuville's capable hands).


    The Natural Law Party have taken up rally driving?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    moonshine said:

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Privet. I am back from 𝘽𝙀𝙃𝙄𝙉𝘿 𝙀𝙉𝙀𝙈𝙔 𝙇𝙄𝙉𝙀𝙎. Debrief follows.

    Moscow seemed the same as ever. Decadent, crime-ridden, expensive, filthy, glamorous. It's the Eurasian maximum city. Mumbai in a blizzard. Less Western stuff and more Chinese tat for sale but it's hard to say how much different that was from the situation before sanctions.

    Nobody I met thinks that Russia will lose the SMO for whatever ambiguous definition of 'lose' you care to adopt. It's just question of whether they stop at Kherson, Kiev or Lviv.

    I watched Solovyov's tv show. He reckons the plan is a series of rolling mobilisations until they get to 3 million people in the armed forces. Which was reckoned by the coterie of beardie weirdos (it was like the LibDem conference) on the show to be sufficient to prevail against NATO in the existential conflict.

    Casualities don't hurt VVP politically and you are kidding yourself if you think it does. On some level, they fucking like it.

    There is a modest fraction of the population who are absolutely fanatical about it and are known as the Z-Publik. They have merch and VK/Telegram groups where they breathlessly follow the latest atrocities. The British equivalent would be those fucking arseholes who drive around with Comic Relief noses on R56 Minis 365 days/year.

    Saw a fucking amazing road rage incident on the M7 motorway near Nizhny Novgorod involving an axe, a scaffold pole and a fire extinguisher. Some fat chybak tumbled out of a UK registered Audi A4 and started waving a Browning HP (SMO booty?) around which calmed everybody down.

    Krasnov pretty much predicted all of this in 'Beyond the Thistle' in 1923. I might re-read it to see how it ends.

    Endex.

    Honest. I think we underestimate how much the average Russian is up for this (it's why Putin is in power in the first place) and Western media focuses on the liberal Mets and the 20% or so who vehemently oppose it.

    It's not representative - anymore than it would be to film a people's march for a second referendum - but it's not a truth we are comfortable hearing.
    Always too worth remembering the Russia has never really had democracy, and has had its regular populace given more flavours of fucking by its elite than probably any other country in Europe*. I've never been, but did learn some Russian in my twenties and love the mad place and its incredible culture and people, despite all the horrible shit that has gone on there. I'm not a teeny tiny bit surprised that the average Russian is broadly in favour of the SMO.

    I've got a book somewhere in the loft called Russia 2010, written in the mid 90s and posits a few different potential scenarios for the post-communist state - the most pessimistic pretty accurately describes were the country has ended up.

    *yeah.
    Russian history seems like a rolling wave of tragedy to me.

    It's remarkable that it just continues and people accept it.
    It's a testament to the enduring power of state violence and propaganda, and enough bandits at the top to keep it going.
    At what point in the demographic journey dies that flip, if ever? When the population is down to 120 million? 100 million? 50 million?

    They are compounding an existing fertility
    decline with a loss of potentially several years worth of fighting age (and fathering age) men being lost to death or simple absence from home. The more mobilised, the starker the effect.
    I was wondering the same thing earlier. If we’re really generous about the numbers we get the following: 500k emigrated. 100k KIA. 200k seriously wounded. We’re getting on for a million. But that’s still only 3% ish of fighting age Russian men.
    In 60 years time, will Russia have a generation of entitled boomers?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362

    Just had a fiver on Pakistan for the win. Not a huge total, but 4th innings on the sub continent, and Bazball can go very wrong, and will do at some point.

    What odds did you get?

    Certainly not beyond England to collapse in a heap in the face of Pakistan's spinner called Ahmed. Might not have to wait until tomorrow to find out.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Nigelb said:

    Driver said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see that the Times has picked up what I wrote yesterday about the appalling appointment of Mike Veale - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-chief-is-in-no-position-to-judge-colleagues-p6kgg0fx6.

    "Everything that is wrong with the upper ranks of British policing — in particular a culture of failing ever upwards — is evident in the case of the former chief constable under investigation for alleged serious misconduct who has just been handed a new job upholding police standards. "

    I have been saying this for years.

    What the actual fuck does the Policing Minister do every day?

    The current government (though I'm not automatically assuming the next one will be
    better) is part of the problem, I think.
    It's not that they're somehow just failing to notice.
    It is enraging. Rewards for failure is one of the biggest reasons why so much in this country is now so crap and getting worse.

    Starmer's elevation of Watson tells me that Labour will be just as bad.

    There is no hope for this country until our leadership cadre - the whole bloody lot of them, no matter what party - is booted out. I wouldn't trust any of them to make me a cup of tea.

    And as for getting the truth out of them, well, it'd be easier to nail jelly to a wall frankly.
    It was one of the more frustrating things about education - seeing people who had been catastrophically awful in one role being moved to another where they were unsurprisingly even worse.

    Edit - I suppose Nick Gibb is an exception to that rule. He's just kept returning to one role and being catastrophically awful in it.
    ConHome thinks Gibb has been great at beating back the blob
    https://conservativehome.com/2022/12/16/gibbs-success-shows-how-the-blob-can-be-beaten/
    I leave it for the educators to comment on Gibb's success or otherwise at the DfE but the start of Atkinson's article hints at the big question: wtf have the Tories actually managed to achieve after 12 years in power?
    The educators are the last people I'd trust to judge the performance of an education minister. Similarly, doctors and nurses with a health minister.
    "The last people" ?
    So you'd completely ignore the views of those with direct experience of delivering healthcare and education ?
    Their claims cannot simply be accepted uncritically, but ignoring them entirely is s bit far in the other direction.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Poll closed


  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited December 2022

    Laying a Lab majority may be a good trading bet but I still think it's more likely than not that they get a majority. My gut tells me they'll get a decent one, too. I don't bet so feel free to ignore, I'm just a random person offering an opinion on the Internet.

    If the public want Party X to have a majority, the hive mind of the electorate is normally pretty good at making that happen. Even if it means flipping lots of seats.
    Not saying you're wrong but how are you getting to these conclusions about what the "public wants" after each election? Is this coming from some kind of polling data?
    Hands up, pure qualitative sniff test.

    But look at the stability of the Conservative vote '79 to '92, or '15 to '19. I think what makes a difference to the MP tally is how fed up the opposition forces are with a Conservative government and how willing they are to use their votes in a locally efficient way.

    Both 1983 and 2019 saw the opposition parties fighting each other, whereas 1992 and 2017 saw them lined up against the Tories. No need for squalid deals, just understanding each other.

    If that's right, we could be in "job lot of brown trousers for CCHQ" territory.
    I think the sniff test sounds circular, ie if the government gets totally hammered under the existing voting system people say The Voters wanted that. Cameron didn't get a majority in 2010, so people work it backwards and say that The Voters weren't convinced they wanted a Tory government. But if some random artifact of the voting system had given him a majority, they'd say The Voters wanted the opposite.

    It's true that tactical voting can kind of fill in the gaps to make FPTP behave a bit more like PR, but a lot of this is long-term trends and just random stuff.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Poll closed


    Doesn't say when he will step down....
  • Scott_xP said:

    Poll closed


    He's going to find someone worse to do it now, isn't he? David Sacks?
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Scott_xP said:

    Poll closed


    Like him or not, this is a very odd way to decide who runs a company.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    They're playing this like a T20 chase, trying to get it finished tonight.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Just had a fiver on Pakistan for the win. Not a huge total, but 4th innings on the sub continent, and Bazball can go very wrong, and will do at some point.

    What odds did you get?

    Certainly not beyond England to collapse in a heap in the face of Pakistan's spinner called Ahmed. Might not have to wait until tomorrow to find out.
    6.8 - looking a poor choice now, but the Aussies were well placed at Headingly in 1981 - 56-1 chasing 130.
  • Driver said:

    They're playing this like a T20 chase, trying to get it finished tonight.

    Sir Geoffrey will be choking on this cornflakes watching this....
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362

    Just had a fiver on Pakistan for the win. Not a huge total, but 4th innings on the sub continent, and Bazball can go very wrong, and will do at some point.

    What odds did you get?

    Certainly not beyond England to collapse in a heap in the face of Pakistan's spinner called Ahmed. Might not have to wait until tomorrow to find out.
    Disclosure: I wrote that after Crawley hit the first ball for four, so no great prescience on my part. Blimey.
  • kjh said:

    Driver said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    There will be swingback to the Tories but maybe not a lot …

    https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2022/12/is-labour-really-heading-for-a-314-seat-majority

    The Trades unions are doing their best to remind people not to vote Labour
    Just a gentle reminder that the current wave of industrial action is under a Conservative government. Trouble with the Trades Unions under the last Labour government? Pretty rare.
    Trouble with the Trades Unions under the Wilson and Callaghan Labour governments in the late 1960s and 1970s when inflation was higher like now though very frequent.

    Fair to say Heath's Tory government also had problems with the unions and strikes and inflation but it was Thatcher who sorted it out and with Major brought down inflation to Blair's benefit. Inflation is back again now though
    Thatcher also had a lot of issues with strikes and was only able to muscle through due to a combination of her own perseverence, North Sea Oil revenues and, crucially, the Falklands.
    Yep events are critical. If it wasn't for the Falklands Margaret Thatcher may not have won another term and one of the most important PMs of the 20th century may have been a PM that we would just forget.
    The Falklands War began in April 1982, by March 1982 however the Conservatives were already back ahead on 35% with Gallup with the SDP on 33% and Labour on 30%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1983_United_Kingdom_general_election
    You do understand the words 'may not have' don't you? It doesn't mean 'won't'. I'm simply pointing out that events outside of our control can have dramatic effects.

    Margaret Thatcher is one of the most important PMs of the 20th century. If Argentina had not invaded the Falklands she MAY not (not WON'T) have been PM after the next election in which case she would have just been a footnote. Having had the luck of history she could still have been a footnote, but the fact that she wasn't was then down to her strength and ability (whether you like her or not).
    As I said even before the Argentines had invaded the Falklands Thatcher's Tories were back in front in the polls
    So as @Benpointer suggested and you have actually now confirmed you really don't understand the difference between 'MAY' and 'WON'T'.

    Unbelievable. I never said she wouldn't have won. She may have, she may not have. How do you not get this? How can you create an argument over this?

    She may have won anyway. She may not have. I mean that isn't hard is it?
    In fairness, that isn't saying anything. In a counterfactual almost anything could have happened.
    Oh for crying out loud some of you guys can create an argument out of nothing.

    It was simple observation on history that events outside of our control can have an impact on our future. I think it is pretty well recorded that the Falklands war and the management of that war by Margaret Thatcher boosted her popularity which meant winning the next election became easier. Subsequently through her skills and personality she became a formidable and important leader in the 20th century.

    If the Falklands war hadn't happened the above still may have happened, but it might not have and she may never have had a chance to make her mark on history.

    I mean how is that at all controversial?

    I do sometimes think you look for an argument for the sake of it.
    No, he doesn't.
  • Funny how Gary Neville can be so strident at comparing the U.K. with Qatar on workers' rights but seems so coy about a comparison on, let's say, LGBTQ+ or women's rights. I wonder if that big pay cheque he got from Qatari broadcaster BeIN has anything to do with it?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64024827
  • Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362

    Just had a fiver on Pakistan for the win. Not a huge total, but 4th innings on the sub continent, and Bazball can go very wrong, and will do at some point.

    What odds did you get?

    Certainly not beyond England to collapse in a heap in the face of Pakistan's spinner called Ahmed. Might not have to wait until tomorrow to find out.
    6.8 - looking a poor choice now, but the Aussies were well placed at Headingly in 1981 - 56-1 chasing 130.
    Collapses have a momentum all of their own. Pakistan just lost 7-52 and England aren't exactly playing this safe.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited December 2022

    Funny how Gary Neville can be so strident at comparing the U.K. with Qatar on workers' rights but seems so coy about a comparison on, let's say, LGBTQ+ or women's rights. I wonder if that big pay cheque he got from Qatari broadcaster BeIN has anything to do with it?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64024827

    Women's rights you say...he still backs his mate Ryan Giggs to the hilt as well....

    Regardless of the legality of the exact nature of his behaviour, if any of my male mates had done half the stuff Giggs had done, he wouldn't be getting invites for a pint anytime, let alone put him in charge of my business.
  • Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?

    Ossie Ardiles tried the football equivalent of Bazball......
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?

    I'd quite enjoy seeing the rugby team try running the ball a bit, rather than just endless kick/chase. I get enough of that watching Bath...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Ghedebrav said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Poll closed


    Like him or not, this is a very odd way to decide who runs a company.
    It's equally possible that some of investors in
    Twitter have demanded a new CEO in return for their continued support, and thus is just good cover.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?

    Ossie Ardiles tried the football equivalent of Bazball......
    Not during his highly successful Swindon career, sadly.
  • Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?

    Ossie Ardiles tried the football equivalent of Bazball......
    Yes.

    That Tottenham team played the best football ever played by a team that is from North London.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Ghedebrav said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Poll closed


    Like him or not, this is a very odd way to decide who runs a company.
    If I was a a thin skinned billionaire narcissist I would simply not have immolated my net worth and reputation buying a website where everyone insults me 24 hours a day expecting to be praised for doing so.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Poll closed


    As somebody on Mastodon put it, "Calvinball but Calvin still keeps losing"
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?

    Wasn't that Kevin Keegan for football?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    Driver said:

    They're playing this like a T20 chase, trying to get it finished tonight.

    Sir Geoffrey will be choking on this cornflakes watching this....
    I don't think Boycott was quite the reactionary you make him out to be.
    He played the way he did because that how he learned, and he was exceptionally good at it. But he was not averse to change, and a fan of what works.
  • Ghedebrav said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Poll closed


    Like him or not, this is a very odd way to decide who runs a company.
    He still owns the company and can choose who to hire and fire.

    He could appoint himself as MD
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?

    Ossie Ardiles tried the football equivalent of Bazball......
    Yes.

    That Tottenham team played the best football ever played by a team that is from North London.
    Lol, they're a Middlesex club.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?

    Ossie Ardiles tried the football equivalent of Bazball......
    Yes.

    That Tottenham team played the best football ever played by a team that is from North London.
    At Swindon we played 'Swindon' style, which has always been about 'proper' football. Ardiles benefitted from inheriting a superbly fit team - Lou Macari's side that had one two promotions in two seasons, then narrowly missed out in the 1989 Play-offs of the Division 2, were for their time the fittest side I ever saw. Apparently the training was brutal, but the pay off late in games was great, as Town often took the game away late on.

    Wouldn't work today as all sides are fit (including down to the higher level non-league sides), but was great in its time.

    Ardiles inherited a squad at the peak of fitness and got them playing passing football. For a season it worked, but then I think the fitness dropped off, and the demotion shambles for the illegal payments crippled the club.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Nigelb said:

    Driver said:

    They're playing this like a T20 chase, trying to get it finished tonight.

    Sir Geoffrey will be choking on this cornflakes watching this....
    I don't think Boycott was quite the reactionary you make him out to be.
    He played the way he did because that how he learned, and he was exceptionally good at it. But he was not averse to change, and a fan of what works.
    I think this is true to an extent, but ultimately Boycott just loved batting, and would have batted for all 5 days of a match if he could.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited December 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Driver said:

    They're playing this like a T20 chase, trying to get it finished tonight.

    Sir Geoffrey will be choking on this cornflakes watching this....
    I don't think Boycott was quite the reactionary you make him out to be.
    He played the way he did because that how he learned, and he was exceptionally good at it. But he was not averse to change, and a fan of what works.
    He changes his tune as often as Nigel Farage.

    3 months ago he was saying Bazball has to stop, it doesn't work, last week he was saying more of this bazball....

    E.g.

    No more talk of Bazball – continue like that and we have no chance in the Ashes
    Anyone who thinks you can whack top-class fast bowling is talking rubbish and defeat at Lord's to South Africa proved that

    Ben Stokes is becoming England's answer to Steve Waugh
    Stokes and McCullum's approach has England playing without fear, and we should want and expect more of the same in Multan
  • Mr. Eagles, I am not sure Musk would be a good morris dancer.
  • tlg86 said:

    Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?

    Ossie Ardiles tried the football equivalent of Bazball......
    Yes.

    That Tottenham team played the best football ever played by a team that is from North London.
    Lol, they're a Middlesex club.
    A Woolwich fan would say that.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    tlg86 said:

    Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?

    Ossie Ardiles tried the football equivalent of Bazball......
    Yes.

    That Tottenham team played the best football ever played by a team that is from North London.
    Lol, they're a Middlesex club.
    A Woolwich fan would say that.
    Arsenal’s first silverware was the Kent Senior Cup, trivia fans.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Alistair said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Poll closed


    Like him or not, this is a very odd way to decide who runs a company.
    If I was a a thin skinned billionaire narcissist I would simply not have immolated my net worth and reputation buying a website where everyone insults me 24 hours a day expecting to be praised for doing so.
    Well he did try and pull out of the deal remember.

    Either he meant that and was stuck buying something he no longer wanted, or he was trying to knock down the price by threatening to pull out. Either way it didn't work.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803

    Nigelb said:

    Driver said:

    They're playing this like a T20 chase, trying to get it finished tonight.

    Sir Geoffrey will be choking on this cornflakes watching this....
    I don't think Boycott was quite the reactionary you make him out to be.
    He played the way he did because that how he learned, and he was exceptionally good at it. But he was not averse to change, and a fan of what works.
    I think this is true to an extent, but ultimately Boycott just loved batting, and would have batted for all 5 days of a match if he could.
    ISTR that he is the only player to have batted on all five days of a test match.
    (Can't remember the details - think it was something like started England's innings late on day 1, batted all through day 2 and into the start of day 3, then began England's second innings towards the end of day 4, batting into day 5. Not sure of the result - probably a draw.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited December 2022
    To answer my own question re bazball for other sports. I don't think its viable for international football, rugby i think France & New Zealand have shown a belief in we back ourselves to simply out score you can work (although SA showed a Southgate approach can also win you the WC).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    Scott_xP said:

    Poll closed


    He's going to find someone worse to do it now, isn't he? David Sacks?
    David Icke.

    That would provide some click bait....
  • DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?

    Ossie Ardiles tried the football equivalent of Bazball......
    Yes.

    That Tottenham team played the best football ever played by a team that is from North London.
    Lol, they're a Middlesex club.
    A Woolwich fan would say that.
    Arsenal’s first silverware was the Kent Senior Cup, trivia fans.
    Another fun fact.

    Arsenal were only ‘promoted’ to the top flight because of corruption and blackmail.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    tlg86 said:

    Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?

    Ossie Ardiles tried the football equivalent of Bazball......
    Yes.

    That Tottenham team played the best football ever played by a team that is from North London.
    Lol, they're a Middlesex club.
    Get back to the dirty south. Woolwich wanderer fans crack me up.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?

    Ossie Ardiles tried the football equivalent of Bazball......
    Yes.

    That Tottenham team played the best football ever played by a team that is from North London.
    Lol, they're a Middlesex club.
    Get back to the dirty south. Woolwich wanderer fans crack me up.
    Still think Arsenal should have sacked Arteta?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    Should England football & rugby looked for a Bazza type new coach?

    Ossie Ardiles tried the football equivalent of Bazball......
    Yes.

    That Tottenham team played the best football ever played by a team that is from North London.
    Lol, they're a Middlesex club.
    A Woolwich fan would say that.
    Arsenal’s first silverware was the Kent Senior Cup, trivia fans.
    Another fun fact.

    Arsenal were only ‘promoted’ to the top flight because of corruption and blackmail.
    Corruption involving Liverpool.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    I have a lurgy. Chills, shivers, aches, vomiting, the squits

    I’ll spare you more deets

    Norovirus?
  • Leon said:

    I have a lurgy. Chills, shivers, aches, vomiting, the squits

    I’ll spare you more deets

    Norovirus?

    Surely you haven't got covid for the 10th time?

    I am currently on bout #2 of covid over the past 4 months.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    Nigelb said:

    Driver said:

    They're playing this like a T20 chase, trying to get it finished tonight.

    Sir Geoffrey will be choking on this cornflakes watching this....
    I don't think Boycott was quite the reactionary you make him out to be.
    He played the way he did because that how he learned, and he was exceptionally good at it. But he was not averse to change, and a fan of what works.
    I think this is true to an extent, but ultimately Boycott just loved batting, and would have batted for all 5 days of a match if he could.
    Absolutely. Which is why I enjoyed watching him play.

    But after he retired as a player, he was rather different. Note for example his 2005 Colin Cowdrey lecture in which he backed the rise of T20.
  • Christ that was Joe Root level review.....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270

    Nigelb said:

    It's not just Tesla; there are an increasing number of very good EVs on the market:

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/12/an-electric-kia-thats-faster-than-a-lamborghini-the-2023-ev6-gt-driven/

    But at £45,245 OTR for a base model, I won't be getting one soon. :( EV prices need to halve before they become very competitive with the cars we plebs drive.

    That's fairly likely in just a few year's time.
    The limiting factor is batteries, and until the dozens of new plants in construction start manufacturing, most of the supply will go into the highest margin vehicles.

    The new plants and battery formats will bring the cost of production down, but just as importantly, they will make production of lower margin high volume production possible.
    That depends on what the lower cost limit for battery production is (the limit being things like raw material costs). There will be a minimum cost for making the batteries, and I've no idea what that is. But given the plants are already quite efficient, I'm sceptical about battery prices massively decreasing. But I might be wrong.

    IMV we are really waiting on a new, better battery chemistry (depending on how you define 'better' ...)
    The numbers I have seen suggest a series of incremental improvements - each years batteries a few percent cheaper, a few percent more charge per Kg etc - for the near term. There are apparently something like 10 years of improvements for Li batteries in the pipeline from the lab to the factory, like this.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Pakistan down to one review after 10.3 overs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    Nigelb said:

    Driver said:

    They're playing this like a T20 chase, trying to get it finished tonight.

    Sir Geoffrey will be choking on this cornflakes watching this....
    I don't think Boycott was quite the reactionary you make him out to be.
    He played the way he did because that how he learned, and he was exceptionally good at it. But he was not averse to change, and a fan of what works.
    He changes his tune as often as Nigel Farage.

    3 months ago he was saying Bazball has to stop, it doesn't work, last week he was saying more of this bazball....

    E.g.

    No more talk of Bazball – continue like that and we have no chance in the Ashes
    Anyone who thinks you can whack top-class fast bowling is talking rubbish and defeat at Lord's to South Africa proved that

    Ben Stokes is becoming England's answer to Steve Waugh
    Stokes and McCullum's approach has England playing without fear, and we should want and expect more of the same in Multan
    Well it will be interesting to see how it works against Australia.
    But I suspect Stokes himself isn't a one note wonder, either. He adapts to the conditions.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    I have a lurgy. Chills, shivers, aches, vomiting, the squits

    I’ll spare you more deets

    Norovirus?

    Surely you haven't got covid for the 10th time?

    I am currently on bout #2 of covid over the past 4 months.
    Pretty sure it’s not Covid. The urgent vomiting speaks of norovirus or similar. Not pleasant, but I’m
    Not Dying (I don’t think)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Privet. I am back from 𝘽𝙀𝙃𝙄𝙉𝘿 𝙀𝙉𝙀𝙈𝙔 𝙇𝙄𝙉𝙀𝙎. Debrief follows.

    Moscow seemed the same as ever. Decadent, crime-ridden, expensive, filthy, glamorous. It's the Eurasian maximum city. Mumbai in a blizzard. Less Western stuff and more Chinese tat for sale but it's hard to say how much different that was from the situation before sanctions.

    Nobody I met thinks that Russia will lose the SMO for whatever ambiguous definition of 'lose' you care to adopt. It's just question of whether they stop at Kherson, Kiev or Lviv.

    I watched Solovyov's tv show. He reckons the plan is a series of rolling mobilisations until they get to 3 million people in the armed forces. Which was reckoned by the coterie of beardie weirdos (it was like the LibDem conference) on the show to be sufficient to prevail against NATO in the existential conflict.

    Casualities don't hurt VVP politically and you are kidding yourself if you think it does. On some level, they fucking like it.

    There is a modest fraction of the population who are absolutely fanatical about it and are known as the Z-Publik. They have merch and VK/Telegram groups where they breathlessly follow the latest atrocities. The British equivalent would be those fucking arseholes who drive around with Comic Relief noses on R56 Minis 365 days/year.

    Saw a fucking amazing road rage incident on the M7 motorway near Nizhny Novgorod involving an axe, a scaffold pole and a fire extinguisher. Some fat chybak tumbled out of a UK registered Audi A4 and started waving a Browning HP (SMO booty?) around which calmed everybody down.

    Krasnov pretty much predicted all of this in 'Beyond the Thistle' in 1923. I might re-read it to see how it ends.

    Endex.

    Honest. I think we underestimate how much the average Russian is up for this (it's why Putin is in power in the first place) and Western media focuses on the liberal Mets and the 20% or so who vehemently oppose it.

    It's not representative - anymore than it would be to film a people's march for a second referendum - but it's not a truth we are comfortable hearing.
    @Dura_Ace’s vivid account tallies exactly with my experience meeting young rich Russians in Armenia in June

    They hated the war, but ultimately, they said: Russia had to prevail, could not lose, and they would reluctantly take up arms for Putin if needs be

    If that’s how the sophisticated Muscovites feel…
    An American relative says that news from Russia (relatives there) reminds her of the stories her father told of the end of WWII in Germany (he was a Jew, hidden of false papers). Everyone was 126% Nazi, and all up for hanging traitors from lampposts etc, until 30 seconds after Admiral Donuts gave the good news on the radio.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited December 2022
    Night watchman.......boooooooooo.

    Edit - I forgot its bazball.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see that the Times has picked up what I wrote yesterday about the appalling appointment of Mike Veale - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-chief-is-in-no-position-to-judge-colleagues-p6kgg0fx6.

    "Everything that is wrong with the upper ranks of British policing — in particular a culture of failing ever upwards — is evident in the case of the former chief constable under investigation for alleged serious misconduct who has just been handed a new job upholding police standards. "

    I have been saying this for years.

    What the actual fuck does the Policing Minister do every day?

    The current government (though I'm not automatically assuming the next one will be
    better) is part of the problem, I think.
    It's not that they're somehow just failing to notice.
    It's not just the police as @Cyclefree has frequently pointed out.

    Above a certain level, failure isn't just an option. It's a planned route to a better job.

    The classic of this is Rotherham - where one of the senior managers in charge of child care, who suppressed what was happening for years, went on to a bigger and better job. In childcare. In Australia IIRC.

    When, it was suggested that, perhaps a glowing reference wasn't appropriate from the UK Home Office, the fight back in officialdom was fierce. Unthinkable. A disgraceful suggestion.

    So she was *recommended* to the Australians as a top notch child care expert....

    It's the New Upper 10,000
    Yep, it beggars belief but it really seems anathema that people are held accountable for terrible performance.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Needed another 5 or so overs to get this knocked over today it seems.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    England still looking for ways to surprise people.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    .

    Night watchman.......boooooooooo.

    Edit - I forgot its bazball.....

    The new term is 'Nighthawk', apparently.

    Ahmed has clearly been told to play without fear, which is how new test players should be managed. I approve (especially as we're 2/0 up in the series).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    I see the High Court has said the Rwanda scheme is legal. An understandable attempt at review on this occasion, but I often feel in these situations that the lawfulness is secondary - a policy might be ineffective or just considered wrong even if it is lawful.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664
    Leon said:

    I have a lurgy. Chills, shivers, aches, vomiting, the squits

    I’ll spare you more deets

    Norovirus?

    Did you read the Liz Truss book?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Rehan goes for 10. Bowled by Abrar.
  • Are we going to get watchful Stokes or smash it Stokes?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see that the Times has picked up what I wrote yesterday about the appalling appointment of Mike Veale - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-chief-is-in-no-position-to-judge-colleagues-p6kgg0fx6.

    "Everything that is wrong with the upper ranks of British policing — in particular a culture of failing ever upwards — is evident in the case of the former chief constable under investigation for alleged serious misconduct who has just been handed a new job upholding police standards. "

    I have been saying this for years.

    What the actual fuck does the Policing Minister do every day?

    The current government (though I'm not automatically assuming the next one will be
    better) is part of the problem, I think.
    It's not that they're somehow just failing to notice.
    It's not just the police as @Cyclefree has frequently pointed out.

    Above a certain level, failure isn't just an option. It's a planned route to a better job.

    The classic of this is Rotherham - where one of the senior managers in charge of child care, who suppressed what was happening for years, went on to a bigger and better job. In childcare. In Australia IIRC.

    When, it was suggested that, perhaps a glowing reference wasn't appropriate from the UK Home Office, the fight back in officialdom was fierce. Unthinkable. A disgraceful suggestion.

    So she was *recommended* to the Australians as a top notch child care expert....

    It's the New Upper 10,000
    Yep, it beggars belief but it really seems anathema that people are held accountable for terrible performance.
    It is quite standard - and not just in this country.

    Look at the career of Ursula von der Leyen
  • Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    I have a lurgy. Chills, shivers, aches, vomiting, the squits

    I’ll spare you more deets

    Norovirus?

    Did you read the Liz Truss book?
    I’ve bought the Truss book and the Prince Harry book on Audible.

    My listening pleasures over the festive period.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    .

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see that the Times has picked up what I wrote yesterday about the appalling appointment of Mike Veale - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-chief-is-in-no-position-to-judge-colleagues-p6kgg0fx6.

    "Everything that is wrong with the upper ranks of British policing — in particular a culture of failing ever upwards — is evident in the case of the former chief constable under investigation for alleged serious misconduct who has just been handed a new job upholding police standards. "

    I have been saying this for years.

    What the actual fuck does the Policing Minister do every day?

    The current government (though I'm not automatically assuming the next one will be
    better) is part of the problem, I think.
    It's not that they're somehow just failing to notice.
    It's not just the police as @Cyclefree has frequently pointed out.

    Above a certain level, failure isn't just an option. It's a planned route to a better job.

    The classic of this is Rotherham - where one of the senior managers in charge of child care, who suppressed what was happening for years, went on to a bigger and better job. In childcare. In Australia IIRC.

    When, it was suggested that, perhaps a glowing reference wasn't appropriate from the UK Home Office, the fight back in officialdom was fierce. Unthinkable. A disgraceful suggestion.

    So she was *recommended* to the Australians as a top notch child care expert....

    It's the New Upper 10,000
    Yep, it beggars belief but it really seems anathema that people are held accountable for terrible performance.
    It is quite standard - and not just in this country.

    Look at the career of Ursula von der Leyen
    Anything is acceptable as long as you're what Sir Humphrey called "One Of Us".
  • kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see that the Times has picked up what I wrote yesterday about the appalling appointment of Mike Veale - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-chief-is-in-no-position-to-judge-colleagues-p6kgg0fx6.

    "Everything that is wrong with the upper ranks of British policing — in particular a culture of failing ever upwards — is evident in the case of the former chief constable under investigation for alleged serious misconduct who has just been handed a new job upholding police standards. "

    I have been saying this for years.

    What the actual fuck does the Policing Minister do every day?

    The current government (though I'm not automatically assuming the next one will be
    better) is part of the problem, I think.
    It's not that they're somehow just failing to notice.
    It's not just the police as @Cyclefree has frequently pointed out.

    Above a certain level, failure isn't just an option. It's a planned route to a better job.

    The classic of this is Rotherham - where one of the senior managers in charge of child care, who suppressed what was happening for years, went on to a bigger and better job. In childcare. In Australia IIRC.

    When, it was suggested that, perhaps a glowing reference wasn't appropriate from the UK Home Office, the fight back in officialdom was fierce. Unthinkable. A disgraceful suggestion.

    So she was *recommended* to the Australians as a top notch child care expert....

    It's the New Upper 10,000
    Yep, it beggars belief but it really seems anathema that people are held accountable for terrible performance.
    A lot of organisations are worried about being sued for giving a bad reference. Far easier to let the problem be someone else's.

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    There’s no cherry picking or spinning this Mori poll. Whatever way it is sliced and diced it’s an awful one for Sunak and the Tories.

    Lib Dem recovery not at expense of Labour is my main take out, because I presumed it should be opposite to that.

    PB has observed news takes a week or more to move the polls, but I’m scratching my head trying to think of what it is that has reversed the Tory fortunes. Maybe its a messy picture wether Sunak got a Honeymoon bounce, but polling certainly are on the turn now.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Poll closed


    As somebody on Mastodon put it, "Calvinball but Calvin still keeps losing"
    His wording is the key here. What position is he stepping down from, apart from "head" of Twitter? What is that post?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    Driver said:

    kjh said:

    Driver said:

    kjh said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    That also required an enormous amount of work to replan literally every lesson

    Yes, buried in there, there it is.
    And?
    And, that increase in workload has biased you against him.

    You could be right in your critiques of him. But nonetheless they are unsafe to rely on.
    Driver, those are facts. And they are his responsibility.

    It doesn't matter whether I'm biased in favour of him or not. Facts don't change. As Ronald Reagan failed to say, they are stubborn things.

    Are you saying - for example - that I am wrong about the assessment criteria? Or about how long it takes the new GCSEs? Or about the pass marks? Merely because I'm angry that he messed up his timetable so I had no time off for two years trying to sort the mess out?

    I'm thinking it's you that's too close to the subject. You appear emotionally invested in a failed system that you've been conned into thinking is somehow brilliant because you don't know much about it and you don't want to hear from people who do. Of course, you're not alone in this. Hyufd is much the same, as are many others e.g. ConHome.

    Gibb is objectively, a failure who has done appalling damage to millions of children out of mindless arrogance. That's also a fact. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

    Anyway, I have to go. Hope I have given you food for thought at least.
    Well, we've been seeing children who have been schooled primarily since 2010 for a while, and we're starting to see those who've been schooled entirely since 2010. They don't look appallingly damaged to me.
    What are your qualifications to make these assessments Driver compared to @ydoethur? Don't you think there is a chance he knows more about it than you?
    I see the young adults when they leave school. I simply don't recognise them as "appallingly damaged", certainly in comparison with previous cohorts.
    Not the question. I asked what your qualifications were compared to @ydoethur to make these assessments and asked whether there was a chance he knew more about it than you, unless you think that answer made you more qualified.
    I answered the question, I can't be held responsible if you didn't like the answer.
    No you didn't. Nor did you answer @ydoethur similar question. Again what are your qualifications to make that assessment and asked whether there was a chance that ydoethur maybe, as a professional in the field, knew more about it than you?

    I think most sensible people regard the answer of a professional more likely to be right than some guy in the street, which you seem to be suggesting is your only qualification. Just out of interest when you feel ill or your car breaks down do you just ask any old tom, dick or harry or do you consult a doctor or a mechanic?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    I have a lurgy. Chills, shivers, aches, vomiting, the squits

    I’ll spare you more deets

    Norovirus?

    Did you read the Liz Truss book?
    I’ve bought the Truss book and the Prince Harry book on Audible.

    My listening pleasures over the festive period.
    You’re a sick puppy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    There’s no cherry picking or spinning this Mori poll. Whatever way it is sliced and diced it’s an awful one for Sunak and the Tories.

    Lib Dem recovery not at expense of Labour is my main take out, because I presumed it should be opposite to that.

    PB has observed news takes a week or more to move the polls, but I’m scratching my head trying to think of what it is that has reversed the Tory fortunes. Maybe its a messy picture wether Sunak got a Honeymoon bounce, but polling certainly are on the turn now.

    Good for you for acknowledging it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see that the Times has picked up what I wrote yesterday about the appalling appointment of Mike Veale - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-chief-is-in-no-position-to-judge-colleagues-p6kgg0fx6.

    "Everything that is wrong with the upper ranks of British policing — in particular a culture of failing ever upwards — is evident in the case of the former chief constable under investigation for alleged serious misconduct who has just been handed a new job upholding police standards. "

    I have been saying this for years.

    What the actual fuck does the Policing Minister do every day?

    The current government (though I'm not automatically assuming the next one will be
    better) is part of the problem, I think.
    It's not that they're somehow just failing to notice.
    It's not just the police as @Cyclefree has frequently pointed out.

    Above a certain level, failure isn't just an option. It's a planned route to a better job.

    The classic of this is Rotherham - where one of the senior managers in charge of child care, who suppressed what was happening for years, went on to a bigger and better job. In childcare. In Australia IIRC.

    When, it was suggested that, perhaps a glowing reference wasn't appropriate from the UK Home Office, the fight back in officialdom was fierce. Unthinkable. A disgraceful suggestion.

    So she was *recommended* to the Australians as a top notch child care expert....

    It's the New Upper 10,000
    Yep, it beggars belief but it really seems anathema that people are held accountable for terrible performance.
    A lot of organisations are worried about being sued for giving a bad reference. Far easier to let the problem be someone else's.

    There is no legal obligation to issue a glowing reference. Instead a statement of "X worked here in capacity Y between dates A and B".

    This lady got a 2 pager about how wonderful she was.

    That's how shit rolls in the new Upper 10,000
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    I have a lurgy. Chills, shivers, aches, vomiting, the squits

    I’ll spare you more deets

    Norovirus?

    Did you read the Liz Truss book?
    I’ve bought the Truss book and the Prince Harry book on Audible.

    My listening pleasures over the festive period.
    You’re a sick puppy.
    I never had TSE down as a fan of S&M....
  • Mr. Eagles, thou art demented.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    kjh said:

    Driver said:

    kjh said:

    Driver said:

    kjh said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    That also required an enormous amount of work to replan literally every lesson

    Yes, buried in there, there it is.
    And?
    And, that increase in workload has biased you against him.

    You could be right in your critiques of him. But nonetheless they are unsafe to rely on.
    Driver, those are facts. And they are his responsibility.

    It doesn't matter whether I'm biased in favour of him or not. Facts don't change. As Ronald Reagan failed to say, they are stubborn things.

    Are you saying - for example - that I am wrong about the assessment criteria? Or about how long it takes the new GCSEs? Or about the pass marks? Merely because I'm angry that he messed up his timetable so I had no time off for two years trying to sort the mess out?

    I'm thinking it's you that's too close to the subject. You appear emotionally invested in a failed system that you've been conned into thinking is somehow brilliant because you don't know much about it and you don't want to hear from people who do. Of course, you're not alone in this. Hyufd is much the same, as are many others e.g. ConHome.

    Gibb is objectively, a failure who has done appalling damage to millions of children out of mindless arrogance. That's also a fact. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

    Anyway, I have to go. Hope I have given you food for thought at least.
    Well, we've been seeing children who have been schooled primarily since 2010 for a while, and we're starting to see those who've been schooled entirely since 2010. They don't look appallingly damaged to me.
    What are your qualifications to make these assessments Driver compared to @ydoethur? Don't you think there is a chance he knows more about it than you?
    I see the young adults when they leave school. I simply don't recognise them as "appallingly damaged", certainly in comparison with previous cohorts.
    Not the question. I asked what your qualifications were compared to @ydoethur to make these assessments and asked whether there was a chance he knew more about it than you, unless you think that answer made you more qualified.
    I answered the question, I can't be held responsible if you didn't like the answer.
    No you didn't. Nor did you answer @ydoethur similar question. Again what are your qualifications to make that assessment and asked whether there was a chance that ydoethur maybe, as a professional in the field, knew more about it than you?
    Yes, I did. I deal with young adults when they leave school, and have been doing so for the best part of 20 years.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    edited December 2022
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    There will be swingback to the Tories but maybe not a lot …

    https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2022/12/is-labour-really-heading-for-a-314-seat-majority

    The Trades unions are doing their best to remind people not to vote Labour
    Just a gentle reminder that the current wave of industrial action is under a Conservative government. Trouble with the Trades Unions under the last Labour government? Pretty rare.
    Trouble with the Trades Unions under the Wilson and Callaghan Labour governments in the late 1960s and 1970s when inflation was higher like now though very frequent.

    Fair to say Heath's Tory government also had problems with the unions and strikes and inflation but it was Thatcher who sorted it out and with Major brought down inflation to Blair's benefit. Inflation is back again now though
    Thatcher also had a lot of issues with strikes and was only able to muscle through due to a combination of her own perseverence, North Sea Oil revenues and, crucially, the Falklands.
    Yep events are critical. If it wasn't for the Falklands Margaret Thatcher may not have won another term and one of the most important PMs of the 20th century may have been a PM that we would just forget.
    The Falklands War began in April 1982, by March 1982 however the Conservatives were already back ahead on 35% with Gallup with the SDP on 33% and Labour on 30%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1983_United_Kingdom_general_election
    You do understand the words 'may not have' don't you? It doesn't mean 'won't'. I'm simply pointing out that events outside of our control can have dramatic effects.

    Margaret Thatcher is one of the most important PMs of the 20th century. If Argentina had not invaded the Falklands she MAY not (not WON'T) have been PM after the next election in which case she would have just been a footnote. Having had the luck of history she could still have been a footnote, but the fact that she wasn't was then down to her strength and ability (whether you like her or not).
    As I said even before the Argentines had invaded the Falklands Thatcher's Tories were back in front in the polls
    So as @Benpointer suggested and you have actually now confirmed you really don't understand the difference between 'MAY' and 'WON'T'.

    Unbelievable. I never said she wouldn't have won. She may have, she may not have. How do you not get this? How can you create an argument over this?

    She may have won anyway. She may not have. I mean that isn't hard is it?
    You suggested the Falklands war alone was responsible for her victory, that was not the case, for as I showed she was already back in front ahead of the SDP and Labour even before it broke out
    I said no such thing. I said nothing of the sort. Show me. You really don't understand what the word 'MAY' means do you?
    Come on @hyufd where did I say what you claim?
    Still waiting@hyufd.

    It is very irritating when you just make stuff up.

    Driver and hyufd just seem to want an argument for no good reason this morning.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664
    The conclusion of the polls is that Sunak needs to negotiate with the nurses and ambulance drivers. He is not going to win.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270

    Scott_xP said:

    Poll closed


    As somebody on Mastodon put it, "Calvinball but Calvin still keeps losing"
    His wording is the key here. What position is he stepping down from, apart from "head" of Twitter? What is that post?
    Still owns it, but steps aside as "The Bloke In Charge"

    Possibly a way out of a situation that is spiralling? As in played for?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    edited December 2022
    At the risk of setting off HYUFD again.

    ‘He’s Got a Huge Problem’
    Mike Pence is struggling to find his path back to the White House.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/12/19/mike-pence-identity-crisis-00067939
    Those who know Pence best say he is wrestling with how to recalibrate himself to a Republican base that hasn’t yet forgiven him for refusing Trump’s pressure to overturn the election results — and maybe never will. When you’ve buried your true self for four years in service to someone who happens to be the most divisive and unpopular former president since Richard Nixon, it’s not so easy to excavate yourself again. ..

    A lay even at current odds (assuming it suits the rest of your 2024 book).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Nigelb said:

    At the risk of setting off HYUFD again.

    ‘He’s Got a Huge Problem’
    Mike Pence is struggling to find his path back to the White House.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/12/19/mike-pence-identity-crisis-00067939

    A lay even at current odds (assuming it suits the rest of your 2024 book).

    A man too cowardly to properly call out his old boss after that boss endorsed people who would have lynched him, and campaigns for people who think he certified a phony election. Not sure how he could appeal to that base, as the article notes.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Poll closed


    As somebody on Mastodon put it, "Calvinball but Calvin still keeps losing"
    His wording is the key here. What position is he stepping down from, apart from "head" of Twitter? What is that post?
    Still owns it, but steps aside as "The Bloke In Charge"

    Possibly a way out of a situation that is spiralling? As in played for?
    Probably. Steps back, gets an established CEO but still pulling the strings, only less visible.

This discussion has been closed.