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Vote blue, go green? – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    Coking coal is different to thermal coal. You can't use it at Drax. You can use it at Scunthorpe.

    Funnily enough, Drax wanted to build a clean coal plant - White Rose. A certain George Osborne withdrew the £1 billion funding and killed the project overnight. Now they want to add carbon capture to their forest burners.
    If it is such a great technology, why is it that it hasn’t worked yet, despite billions invested?

    Carbon capture does work. However, since emitters do not have to cover the true cost of the negative externalities they generate, without subsidy it is currently financially advantageous to carry on emitting and just pay for the Emission Trading Scheme permits.

    Ironically, it is the redneck end of the US that has been leading the way, where, firstly,the CO2 can be sold for enhanced oil recovery and, secondly, if you capture you receive tax credits.

    Anyhow, in Q1 2023 our government should announce which carbon capture projects they are minded to support under the Track 1 process, linked to the HyNet and East Coast Clusters. This will include power generation, blue hydrogen and a range of industrial emitters.
    The reason that carbon capture for coal doesn’t get a bung from the government, in the U.K., is that the business case refuses to close - you end up with electricity that is more expensive than many other options. Until someone can come up with a plan that actually makes economic sense, why?
    Since nobody has come forward with a proposal for a coal fired plant with capture in the latest competition, we can't compare the costs with those of a CCGT with capture. There is a tradeoff between Capex and Opex, and over a 20 or 25 year timeline I would not like to say which has the lower £/MWh.
    Ahem: it's not just Capex vs Opex, it's:

    - Capex
    - Maintenance
    - Marginal cost
    Maintenance = Fixed Opex
    Marginal cost = Variable Opex

    Slightly simplified, but you can see where I'm coming from.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    That'll be no laws have been broken, then.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    There is an allegation that various people didn’t tell the truth to a congressional committee, under oath.
    Then those people should be prosecuted for lying under oath.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    That'll be no laws have been broken, then.
    Lying under oath is a crime

    And I’d be amazed if the suppression of the lab leak theory doesn’t break a law against conspiracy

    AND he personally funded the GOF research?!

    Put him in front of a jury. Let them decide. 20 million people are dead
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841
    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    My
    I didn't know Quebec was the target of multiple genocides by Anglophone Canada or indeed had its own UN seat.
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Sadly, there are top many people who have got themselves into the mental state of:

    - Ukraine is being supported by people I don't like
    Therefore
    - Ukraine is in the wrong
    Therefore
    - Putin is ok
    I think Hitchens regrets the downfall of the Soviet Union.
    He said as much on GB News. The cold war worked well for Britain and it's ending led to Germany becoming ever more powerful in Europe. He hates Nato, presumably because without it Britain would need a much larger armed forces.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    Knowing the origins of covid won’t bring back the dead. You seem to want to turn people into war criminals. I don’t believe anyone deliberately caused covid. At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes.

    As to lying to congress - if true and proven then presumably the full weight of the law should be thrown at them.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    M45 said:

    Foxy said:

    Off-duty doctor finally called at 7.13pm and prescribed antibiotics over the phone, so that took almost 29 hours. She won't be able to start the course until the local pharmacy opens in the morning. Nearest 24/7 is in Reading, which is far too far for us to drive.

    Thankfully, she is a bit better today.

    Goodness knows what we'd have done if she'd taken a turn for the worse on Saturday night.

    Kids ED is the only place to be assessed in person, but is bedlam at the moment. My secretary had 7 hours there one night this week with her granddaughter.

    Hopefully be able to fill the prescription without too much hassle. There do seem to be shortages.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/08/gps-and-pharmacies-struggling-to-obtain-antibiotics-to-treat-strep-a


    Probably a sign of my age and sex, sorry, gender, that I parse ED as erectile dysfunction.
    To my mind it is either Electro-Diesel (Class 73) or the depot code for Eastfield (known for putting West Highland Terriers on the sides of its locos).

    Or electro-dialysis, if I'm wearing my work head.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    “The Bombardment” on Netflix is a brilliant war movie

    About a real RAF raid on Copenhagen. Brutal and moving
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    edited December 2022

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    Knowing the origins of covid won’t bring back the dead. You seem to want to turn people into war criminals. I don’t believe anyone deliberately caused covid. At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes.

    As to lying to congress - if true and proven then presumably the full weight of the law should be thrown at them.
    20 MILLION PEOPLE ARE DEAD

    “People make mistakes”

    More have died thanks to Covid than died in World War One

    “People make mistakes”

    There shouldn’t just be trials there should be executions
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Nigelb said:

    FUSION ENERGY BREAKTHROUGH: US scientists have made one of the most significant leaps in decades in the search for the Holy Grail of energy - limitless, carbon free power - by achieving net energy gain in a fusion reaction
    https://twitter.com/OilSheppard/status/1602002974871785472

    Probably a long way from anything practical, but net energy gain would be a big deal.
    And would tend also to validate FLF’s design, which might prove a more practical implementation of inertial confinement.

    Thread by FLF’s CEO.
    Who is not unnaturally quite excited.
    It's out, NIF has shown gain, Q > 1. If confirmed on Tues this is a profound and very important result. It shows that inertial fusion can work in a device suitable for a power plant …

    … This result is about mastering the ignition process, showing exactly where the threshold lies. It is now extremely clear what you need to do to get inertial fusion to work…
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    Knowing the origins of covid won’t bring back the dead. You seem to want to turn people into war criminals. I don’t believe anyone deliberately caused covid. At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes.

    As to lying to congress - if true and proven then presumably the full weight of the law should be thrown at them.
    20 MILLION PEOPLE ARE DEAD

    People die all the time. Lots died today. Most not from covid.
    What is the actual allegation you are throwing at Fauci? Do you think he deliberately created covid in order to kill millions? Or did the NIH just fund research round the world, such as that of colleagues of mine? You want to blame someone? Blame the Chinese who chose to allow covid to spread round the world while trying to suppress it at home. Blame nature. Humans have been suffering pandemics ever since they started farming and living in close proximity to domesticated animals.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    For libel. Musk is implying to squillions of followers that there's sufficient evidence against Fauci to convict him of a crime.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    Knowing the origins of covid won’t bring back the dead. You seem to want to turn people into war criminals. I don’t believe anyone deliberately caused covid. At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes.

    As to lying to congress - if true and proven then presumably the full weight of the law should be thrown at them.
    20 MILLION PEOPLE ARE DEAD

    “People make mistakes”

    More have died thanks to Covid than died in World War One

    “People make mistakes”

    There shouldn’t just be trials there should be executions
    Of who? Make your case. What actual crime?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526

    Off-duty doctor finally called at 7.13pm and prescribed antibiotics over the phone, so that took almost 29 hours. She won't be able to start the course until the local pharmacy opens in the morning. Nearest 24/7 is in Reading, which is far too far for us to drive.

    Thankfully, she is a bit better today.

    Goodness knows what we'd have done if she'd taken a turn for the worse on Saturday night.

    So sorry to hear that - hope she's better again tomorrow.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841
    I can't be bothered to read Hitchens so maybe there is some nuance to his comparison of Ukraine with Quebec. However:

    Canada is not the Soviet Union
    90% of Quebecois didn't vote for independence
    Quebec was never a legally recognised independent state
    If it was and Canada launched a barbaric invasion the international condemnation would likely be strong
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    “At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes”

    This is the kind of feeble shit a guilty corporation would trot out after a gas leak which injured 6 people in a school.

    After the worst plague in a century most likely caused by perverse and corrupted science in a quasi-fascist autocracy?

    “Yes ok 20 million people are dead and millions of children have been orphaned and the global economy has been ruined and millions more have seen their lives and businesses destroyed by but at worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes”
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would be even funnier is if Fauci lost.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Oh shit sorry. Just killed 20 million people. Oops. My bad
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    There is an allegation that various people didn’t tell the truth to a congressional committee, under oath.
    Then those people should be prosecuted for lying under oath.
    You’re one of those old fashioned types who goes in for trying people?

    Don’t you know that all suspects are guilty? Otherwise they wouldn’t be suspect, would they?

    As outlined in this excellent documentary - https://youtu.be/5HO70-Rk3jE
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Off thread...but Biden now has a 1% plus approval rating on Rasmussen....

    This is his first positive approval rating of any kind since Afghanistan and is deserved IMO....

    Do not underestimate the Biden....
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    “At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes”

    This is the kind of feeble shit a guilty corporation would trot out after a gas leak which injured 6 people in a school.

    After the worst plague in a century most likely caused by perverse and corrupted science in a quasi-fascist autocracy?

    “Yes ok 20 million people are dead and millions of children have been orphaned and the global economy has been ruined and millions more have seen their lives and businesses destroyed by but at worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes”

    So again, what crime and who are you charging? You don’t say because you can’t. You do not know that covid is the result of gain of function research. It appeals to your sense of drama. Did gain of function cause the original SARS? Or MERS? Or swine flu? Or bird flu?
    No.

    You seem unable to consider that covid may be a natural evolution. Why is this?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Oh shit sorry. Just killed 20 million people. Oops. My bad

    Who and what crime? Go on, answer the question.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Leon said:

    Oh shit sorry. Just killed 20 million people. Oops. My bad

    Well you were predicting somewhere between ten and a hundred times as many, so turn it around and millions of lives were saved by the Curse of Leondamus (or the Curse of Byronic or Eadric or whatever it was back then).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    edited December 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    FUSION ENERGY BREAKTHROUGH: US scientists have made one of the most significant leaps in decades in the search for the Holy Grail of energy - limitless, carbon free power - by achieving net energy gain in a fusion reaction
    https://twitter.com/OilSheppard/status/1602002974871785472

    Probably a long way from anything practical, but net energy gain would be a big deal.
    And would tend also to validate FLF’s design, which might prove a more practical implementation of inertial confinement.

    Thread by FLF’s CEO.
    Who is not unnaturally quite excited.
    It's out, NIF has shown gain, Q > 1. If confirmed on Tues this is a profound and very important result. It shows that inertial fusion can work in a device suitable for a power plant …

    … This result is about mastering the ignition process, showing exactly where the threshold lies. It is now extremely clear what you need to do to get inertial fusion to work…
    NIF isn’t going to lead to fusion power, sadly.

    It’s very nice if you want to study fusion reactions at densities/pressures that exceed those of a supernova. In the middle of an implosion. Not that has any practical application… no sir.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    Knowing the origins of covid won’t bring back the dead. You seem to want to turn people into war criminals. I don’t believe anyone deliberately caused covid. At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes.

    As to lying to congress - if true and proven then presumably the full weight of the law should be thrown at them.
    20 MILLION PEOPLE ARE DEAD

    People die all the time. Lots died today. Most not from covid.
    What is the actual allegation you are throwing at Fauci? Do you think he deliberately created covid in order to kill millions? Or did the NIH just fund research round the world, such as that of colleagues of mine? You want to blame someone? Blame the Chinese who chose to allow covid to spread round the world while trying to suppress it at home. Blame nature. Humans have been suffering pandemics ever since they started farming and living in close proximity to domesticated animals.
    We’ve only recently started fucking with viruses to make them even more dangerous to humans, a science that was actually outlawed by Obama because it is so evil. And yet Fauci funded it in Wuhan

    “This moratorium was lifted in Dec-2017. This of course raises a question: were we actually funding this kind of research even though it was explicitly banned? And if we were, who authorized it?”


    “Yes. Fauci and Collins”

    https://twitter.com/r_h_ebright/status/1601693708193521664?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    Oh shit sorry. Just killed 20 million people. Oops. My bad

    Who and what crime? Go on, answer the question.
    Lying under oath
    Conspiracy
    Corporate manslaughter

    Start with them and move on until they are all in jail or swinging from a gibbet
  • TresTres Posts: 2,700
    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    edited December 2022

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    Knowing the origins of covid won’t bring back the dead. You seem to want to turn people into war criminals. I don’t believe anyone deliberately caused covid. At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes.

    As to lying to congress - if true and proven then presumably the full weight of the law should be thrown at them.
    20 MILLION PEOPLE ARE DEAD

    People die all the time. Lots died today. Most not from covid.
    What is the actual allegation you are throwing at Fauci? Do you think he deliberately created covid in order to kill millions? Or did the NIH just fund research round the world, such as that of colleagues of mine? You want to blame someone? Blame the Chinese who chose to allow covid to spread round the world while trying to suppress it at home. Blame nature. Humans have been suffering pandemics ever since they started farming and living in close proximity to domesticated animals.
    For a sensible poster, you seem very blind to the moral turpitude that underpins this research programme. There has never been a justification for GOF research that wasn't vague and threadbare. We don't really *need* diseases to be made more deadly in vitro. When such research was rightly banned in the US on safety grounds, it was completely immoral to seek to resume it overseas, that's for a start. For seconds, that immorality is compounded tenfold, by doing that research in CHINA, a geopolitical rival of NATO, making them a party to every development of the research. Forget flying to Taiwan, you just gave them the tools to unleash a global pandemic.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Oh shit sorry. Just killed 20 million people. Oops. My bad

    Who and what crime? Go on, answer the question.
    Lying under oath
    Conspiracy
    Corporate manslaughter

    Start with them and move on until they are all in jail or swinging from a gibbet
    What is the usual sentence for lying under oath? Conspiracy to do what? If the NIH funded gain of function research it did so as an organisation. Was it illegal to do so? Almost certainly not. Is it proven that covid arose through gain of function research? No.
    I understand your rage. I am lucky that no one close to me died from covid. I do not accept that the case you believe has been made.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    Ah ok. I’m angry that 20 million people are dead because some irresponsible morons thought it would be fun to make evil viruses. And that makes ME the alt right loony?

    The more sensible attitude is to say ok it’s just 20
    million corpses, not 25 million, let’s just forget about it. People make mistakes
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    Knowing the origins of covid won’t bring back the dead. You seem to want to turn people into war criminals. I don’t believe anyone deliberately caused covid. At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes.

    As to lying to congress - if true and proven then presumably the full weight of the law should be thrown at them.
    20 MILLION PEOPLE ARE DEAD

    People die all the time. Lots died today. Most not from covid.
    What is the actual allegation you are throwing at Fauci? Do you think he deliberately created covid in order to kill millions? Or did the NIH just fund research round the world, such as that of colleagues of mine? You want to blame someone? Blame the Chinese who chose to allow covid to spread round the world while trying to suppress it at home. Blame nature. Humans have been suffering pandemics ever since they started farming and living in close proximity to domesticated animals.
    For a sensible poster, you seem very blind to the moral turpitude that underpins this research programme. There has never been a justification for GOF research that wasn't vague and threadbare. We don't really *need* diseases to be made more deadly in vitro. When such research was rightly banned in the US on safety grounds, it was completely immoral to seek to resume it overseas, that's for a start. For seconds, that immorality is compounded tenfold, by doing that research in CHINA, a geopolitical rival of NATO, making them a party to every development of the research. Forget flying to Taiwan, you just gave them the tools to unleash a global pandemic.
    I’m not seeking to defend gain of function research, although I can see it’s utility. I simply don’t accept Leon’s stone cold certainty. Other alternatives remain.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    tyson said:

    Off thread...but Biden now has a 1% plus approval rating on Rasmussen....

    This is his first positive approval rating of any kind since Afghanistan and is deserved IMO....

    Do not underestimate the Biden....

    He’s your classic, middle of the road, working politician. Congress and the Senate used to have tons of them. Not fireballs or orators, but would get a bunch of stuff done.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    M45 said:

    Foxy said:

    Off-duty doctor finally called at 7.13pm and prescribed antibiotics over the phone, so that took almost 29 hours. She won't be able to start the course until the local pharmacy opens in the morning. Nearest 24/7 is in Reading, which is far too far for us to drive.

    Thankfully, she is a bit better today.

    Goodness knows what we'd have done if she'd taken a turn for the worse on Saturday night.

    Kids ED is the only place to be assessed in person, but is bedlam at the moment. My secretary had 7 hours there one night this week with her granddaughter.

    Hopefully be able to fill the prescription without too much hassle. There do seem to be shortages.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/08/gps-and-pharmacies-struggling-to-obtain-antibiotics-to-treat-strep-a


    Probably a sign of my age and sex, sorry, gender, that I parse ED as erectile dysfunction.
    Emergency Department (as casualty is now known). It is a zoo, but it is the only place to be seen in person. Free, but you pay in the form of a long wait.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    edited December 2022

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    Knowing the origins of covid won’t bring back the dead. You seem to want to turn people into war criminals. I don’t believe anyone deliberately caused covid. At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes.

    As to lying to congress - if true and proven then presumably the full weight of the law should be thrown at them.
    20 MILLION PEOPLE ARE DEAD

    People die all the time. Lots died today. Most not from covid.
    What is the actual allegation you are throwing at Fauci? Do you think he deliberately created covid in order to kill millions? Or did the NIH just fund research round the world, such as that of colleagues of mine? You want to blame someone? Blame the Chinese who chose to allow covid to spread round the world while trying to suppress it at home. Blame nature. Humans have been suffering pandemics ever since they started farming and living in close proximity to domesticated animals.
    For a sensible poster, you seem very blind to the moral turpitude that underpins this research programme. There has never been a justification for GOF research that wasn't vague and threadbare. We don't really *need* diseases to be made more deadly in vitro. When such research was rightly banned in the US on safety grounds, it was completely immoral to seek to resume it overseas, that's for a start. For seconds, that immorality is compounded tenfold, by doing that research in CHINA, a geopolitical rival of NATO, making them a party to every development of the research. Forget flying to Taiwan, you just gave them the tools to unleash a global pandemic.
    I’m not seeking to defend gain of function research, although I can see it’s utility. I simply don’t accept Leon’s stone cold certainty. Other alternatives remain.
    Isn't 'seeing its utility' offering a defence? Can you give any good reason why we need deadlier and more transmissable versions of bird flu, coronavirus, and whatever other cover versions that are in the works?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    Knowing the origins of covid won’t bring back the dead. You seem to want to turn people into war criminals. I don’t believe anyone deliberately caused covid. At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes.

    As to lying to congress - if true and proven then presumably the full weight of the law should be thrown at them.
    20 MILLION PEOPLE ARE DEAD

    People die all the time. Lots died today. Most not from covid.
    What is the actual allegation you are throwing at Fauci? Do you think he deliberately created covid in order to kill millions? Or did the NIH just fund research round the world, such as that of colleagues of mine? You want to blame someone? Blame the Chinese who chose to allow covid to spread round the world while trying to suppress it at home. Blame nature. Humans have been suffering pandemics ever since they started farming and living in close proximity to domesticated animals.
    For a sensible poster, you seem very blind to the moral turpitude that underpins this research programme. There has never been a justification for GOF research that wasn't vague and threadbare. We don't really *need* diseases to be made more deadly in vitro. When such research was rightly banned in the US on safety grounds, it was completely immoral to seek to resume it overseas, that's for a start. For seconds, that immorality is compounded tenfold, by doing that research in CHINA, a geopolitical rival of NATO, making them a party to every development of the research. Forget flying to Taiwan, you just gave them the tools to unleash a global pandemic.
    I’m not seeking to defend gain of function research, although I can see it’s utility. I simply don’t accept Leon’s stone cold certainty. Other alternatives remain.
    Isn't 'seeing its utility' offering a defence? Can you give any good reason why we need deadlier and more transmissable versions of bird flu, coronavirus, and whatever other cover versions that are in the works?
    I think an understanding of how things work is always useful. Discovering potential threats before they happen can help neutralise them. Is it safe to do these things? Nothing is without risk.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    edited December 2022

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    Knowing the origins of covid won’t bring back the dead. You seem to want to turn people into war criminals. I don’t believe anyone deliberately caused covid. At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes.

    As to lying to congress - if true and proven then presumably the full weight of the law should be thrown at them.
    20 MILLION PEOPLE ARE DEAD

    People die all the time. Lots died today. Most not from covid.
    What is the actual allegation you are throwing at Fauci? Do you think he deliberately created covid in order to kill millions? Or did the NIH just fund research round the world, such as that of colleagues of mine? You want to blame someone? Blame the Chinese who chose to allow covid to spread round the world while trying to suppress it at home. Blame nature. Humans have been suffering pandemics ever since they started farming and living in close proximity to domesticated animals.
    For a sensible poster, you seem very blind to the moral turpitude that underpins this research programme. There has never been a justification for GOF research that wasn't vague and threadbare. We don't really *need* diseases to be made more deadly in vitro. When such research was rightly banned in the US on safety grounds, it was completely immoral to seek to resume it overseas, that's for a start. For seconds, that immorality is compounded tenfold, by doing that research in CHINA, a geopolitical rival of NATO, making them a party to every development of the research. Forget flying to Taiwan, you just gave them the tools to unleash a global pandemic.
    I’m not seeking to defend gain of function research, although I can see it’s utility. I simply don’t accept Leon’s stone cold certainty. Other alternatives remain.
    Isn't 'seeing its utility' offering a defence? Can you give any good reason why we need deadlier and more transmissable versions of bird flu, coronavirus, and whatever other cover versions that are in the works?
    I think an understanding of how things work is always useful. Discovering potential threats before they happen can help neutralise them. Is it safe to do these things? Nothing is without risk.
    I agree, it's useful to know how these diseases work, so that one can fight them, but that's beside the point. I ask exclusively about creating more deadly and transmissable versions of these diseases - that's not learning about a threat is it, it's creating a threat. Cancer research isn't funding research into how to make more deadly and debilitating forms of cancer (at least let's hope not).
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    Knowing the origins of covid won’t bring back the dead. You seem to want to turn people into war criminals. I don’t believe anyone deliberately caused covid. At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes.

    As to lying to congress - if true and proven then presumably the full weight of the law should be thrown at them.
    20 MILLION PEOPLE ARE DEAD

    People die all the time. Lots died today. Most not from covid.
    What is the actual allegation you are throwing at Fauci? Do you think he deliberately created covid in order to kill millions? Or did the NIH just fund research round the world, such as that of colleagues of mine? You want to blame someone? Blame the Chinese who chose to allow covid to spread round the world while trying to suppress it at home. Blame nature. Humans have been suffering pandemics ever since they started farming and living in close proximity to domesticated animals.
    We’ve only recently started fucking with viruses to make them even more dangerous to humans, a science that was actually outlawed by Obama because it is so evil. And yet Fauci funded it in Wuhan

    “This moratorium was lifted in Dec-2017. This of course raises a question: were we actually funding this kind of research even though it was explicitly banned? And if we were, who authorized it?”

    “Yes. Fauci and Collins”

    https://twitter.com/r_h_ebright/status/1601693708193521664?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg
    The moratorium was only imposed in 2014. A moratorium is intended to be temporary, by definition.

    The whole China-USA bio angle is fascinating. Cooperation between parties that are preparing for war against each other has happened before. Or is it more a case of helping each other out against their respective populations? I doubt China simply said yeah, sure, if you need an extra cloak for a while, then of course you can come over to our place. They may have said that, but there'd have been a lot more to it.

    What might be going on in the Xinjiang camps?

    There's no way the story that began in 2020 is over yet.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Sadly, there are top many people who have got themselves into the mental state of:

    - Ukraine is being supported by people I don't like
    Therefore
    - Ukraine is in the wrong
    Therefore
    - Putin is ok
    On the other hand there are also Ukranians who have gotten into the mind set, that all Russians are "bad". There has been wide spread criticism in the Ukraine of the Nobel Peace Prize being awarded to a Ukranian a Belarussian and a Russian organisaation this year, despite Memorial being consitantly anti-Putin and are stronly opposed to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
    Knowing the origins of covid won’t bring back the dead. You seem to want to turn people into war criminals. I don’t believe anyone deliberately caused covid. At worst an accidental release was the source. People make mistakes.

    As to lying to congress - if true and proven then presumably the full weight of the law should be thrown at them.
    20 MILLION PEOPLE ARE DEAD

    People die all the time. Lots died today. Most not from covid.
    What is the actual allegation you are throwing at Fauci? Do you think he deliberately created covid in order to kill millions? Or did the NIH just fund research round the world, such as that of colleagues of mine? You want to blame someone? Blame the Chinese who chose to allow covid to spread round the world while trying to suppress it at home. Blame nature. Humans have been suffering pandemics ever since they started farming and living in close proximity to domesticated animals.
    For a sensible poster, you seem very blind to the moral turpitude that underpins this research programme. There has never been a justification for GOF research that wasn't vague and threadbare. We don't really *need* diseases to be made more deadly in vitro. When such research was rightly banned in the US on safety grounds, it was completely immoral to seek to resume it overseas, that's for a start. For seconds, that immorality is compounded tenfold, by doing that research in CHINA, a geopolitical rival of NATO, making them a party to every development of the research. Forget flying to Taiwan, you just gave them the tools to unleash a global pandemic.
    I’m not seeking to defend gain of function research, although I can see it’s utility. I simply don’t accept Leon’s stone cold certainty. Other alternatives remain.
    Isn't 'seeing its utility' offering a defence? Can you give any good reason why we need deadlier and more transmissable versions of bird flu, coronavirus, and whatever other cover versions that are in the works?
    I think an understanding of how things work is always useful. Discovering potential threats before they happen can help neutralise them. Is it safe to do these things? Nothing is without risk.
    I agree, it's useful to know how these diseases work, so that one can fight them. I ask exclusively about creating more deadly and transmissable versions of these diseases - that's not learning about a threat is it, it's creating a threat.
    Assuming the theory is correct and virus was engineered for ACE-2 binding, it’s not guaranteed that the results would be a more transmissible, serious virus.
    As we are seeing currently, the natural variants have a certain evolutionary options to explore. Omicron became better at spreading, partly by becoming a disease more of the upper respiratory system (not exclusively, sadly). It also became milder (notably so for those with antibodies, either natural or derived from vaccination). This is quite common. I have been looking at nitrofurantoin resistance recently. As an antibiotic you always need to be aware of resistance. In nitrofurantoin, typically used to UTIs, resistance can occur, but at a cost. The resistant bacteria are no longer fit enough to cause significant infections.
    This is not to say that covid is over. It’s possible that a more serious variant lies in wait. But for now, we are in a better place.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    Ah ok. I’m angry that 20 million people are dead because some irresponsible morons thought it would be fun to make evil viruses. And that makes ME the alt right loony?

    The more sensible attitude is to say ok it’s just 20
    million corpses, not 25 million, let’s just forget about it. People make mistakes
    Hunter Biden's laptop might be linked to this. Why can't we see it? What's the big secret?
  • tyson said:

    Off thread...but Biden now has a 1% plus approval rating on Rasmussen....

    This is his first positive approval rating of any kind since Afghanistan and is deserved IMO....

    Do not underestimate the Biden....

    He’s your classic, middle of the road, working politician. Congress and the Senate used to have tons of them. Not fireballs or orators, but would get a bunch of stuff done.

    Biden is an absolute beast. People consistently underestimate him. He's just good at politics.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    eristdoof said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Sadly, there are top many people who have got themselves into the mental state of:

    - Ukraine is being supported by people I don't like
    Therefore
    - Ukraine is in the wrong
    Therefore
    - Putin is ok
    On the other hand there are also Ukranians who have gotten into the mind set, that all Russians are "bad". There has been wide spread criticism in the Ukraine of the Nobel Peace Prize being awarded to a Ukranian a Belarussian and a Russian organisaation this year, despite Memorial being consitantly anti-Putin and are stronly opposed to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
    Unfortunate, but one can forgive some of them might not take a broader, more fair individually, perspective in the current circumstances.
  • Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    What I don't understand (well I do) is why there is the view on the left that Fauci is totally innocent, must be protected at all costs and not subject to any investigation whatsoever. It's as irrational as the alt-right view.

    My own view is that it's not proven by any stretch that he is guilty of anything but that there are questions to be asked about his behaviour and actions, and these questions should be asked. It's slightly worrying that asking questions to get the truth gets one labelled as "alt-right"

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270

    tyson said:

    Off thread...but Biden now has a 1% plus approval rating on Rasmussen....

    This is his first positive approval rating of any kind since Afghanistan and is deserved IMO....

    Do not underestimate the Biden....

    He’s your classic, middle of the road, working politician. Congress and the Senate used to have tons of them. Not fireballs or orators, but would get a bunch of stuff done.

    Biden is an absolute beast. People consistently underestimate him. He's just good at politics.
    … in the old style - bashing out deals, building a voting block. All the stuff the oratorical types can’t be bothered with.

    What was it one of them said - “There’s still a problem? But I gave a major speech on that!”
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022
    Details can be interesting and sometimes a very specific question about a detail can't be answered satisfactorily by those who are defending an official story. Therefore it has to be sealioned, or otherwise detracted from, for example by being wrapped up with ideas that are crazy. Cue "truth movements".

    Moral: don't forget the big picture, and don't act like a mathematician or a forensics person who is trying to prove something specific whether at a 100% or a 95% level.

    A feature of the big picture is that of f***ing course both the USA and China have been conducting biological warfare research, with a view to both defence and offence, for decades.

    *Waves to sealions*.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited December 2022

    tyson said:

    Off thread...but Biden now has a 1% plus approval rating on Rasmussen....

    This is his first positive approval rating of any kind since Afghanistan and is deserved IMO....

    Do not underestimate the Biden....

    He’s your classic, middle of the road, working politician. Congress and the Senate used to have tons of them. Not fireballs or orators, but would get a bunch of stuff done.

    Biden is an absolute beast. People consistently underestimate him. He's just good at politics.
    If he wasn't 134 years old he'd be unstoppable for 2024. Flaws, to be sure, but his instincts seem much sounder than others out there.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    What I don't understand (well I do) is why there is the view on the left that Fauci is totally innocent, must be protected at all costs and not subject to any investigation whatsoever. It's as irrational as the alt-right view.

    My own view is that it's not proven by any stretch that he is guilty of anything but that there are questions to be asked about his behaviour and actions, and these questions should be asked. It's slightly worrying that asking questions to get the truth gets one labelled as "alt-right"

    There’s asking questions and then there is calling for the noose. The latter is the alt-right bit.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    Ah ok. I’m angry that 20 million people are dead because some irresponsible morons thought it would be fun to make evil viruses. And that makes ME the alt right loony?

    The more sensible attitude is to say ok it’s just 20
    million corpses, not 25 million, let’s just forget about it. People make mistakes
    Hunter Biden's laptop might be linked to this. Why can't we see it? What's the big secret?
    I've heard it's got all the info on the aliens on it and how they are trying to bring down society by introducing woke into AI and blaming Remoaners.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    thecircle said:

    Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    What I don't understand (well I do) is why there is the view on the left that Fauci is totally innocent, must be protected at all costs and not subject to any investigation whatsoever. It's as irrational as the alt-right view.

    My own view is that it's not proven by any stretch that he is guilty of anything but that there are questions to be asked about his behaviour and actions, and these questions should be asked. It's slightly worrying that asking questions to get the truth gets one labelled as "alt-right"

    Read the book the real anthony Fauci by robert kennedy junior...Fauci suppressed early treatments for covid so he could use vaccines as the only way out of the pandemic
    Welcome! Doubt you’ll be here long with that distinctive…ellipsis posting style and lack of an ending full stop
  • TimS said:

    In Sunday afternoon news, the pub that a few weeks ago was playing Baker Street and launched me into an evening of nostalgic autumn Sunday pub track reflection has sadly moved on to Christmas bangers.

    Not yet chaps, not yet.

    I meant to ask you the other day about the Wickham Arms. It always seems a bit dodgy from the outside. I was sad to see that the Telegraph has shut down.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    What I don't understand (well I do) is why there is the view on the left that Fauci is totally innocent, must be protected at all costs and not subject to any investigation whatsoever. It's as irrational as the alt-right view.

    My own view is that it's not proven by any stretch that he is guilty of anything but that there are questions to be asked about his behaviour and actions, and these questions should be asked. It's slightly worrying that asking questions to get the truth gets one labelled as "alt-right"

    There’s asking questions and then there is calling for the noose. The latter is the alt-right bit.
    A good old fashioned lynch mob is all we see so far.

  • kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    Off thread...but Biden now has a 1% plus approval rating on Rasmussen....

    This is his first positive approval rating of any kind since Afghanistan and is deserved IMO....

    Do not underestimate the Biden....

    He’s your classic, middle of the road, working politician. Congress and the Senate used to have tons of them. Not fireballs or orators, but would get a bunch of stuff done.

    Biden is an absolute beast. People consistently underestimate him. He's just good at politics.
    If he wasn't 134 years old he'd be unstoppable for 2024. Flaws, to be sure, but his instincts seem much sounder than others out there.
    Yeah his tragedy is he peaked too late.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841

    Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    What I don't understand (well I do) is why there is the view on the left that Fauci is totally innocent, must be protected at all costs and not subject to any investigation whatsoever. It's as irrational as the alt-right view.

    My own view is that it's not proven by any stretch that he is guilty of anything but that there are questions to be asked about his behaviour and actions, and these questions should be asked. It's slightly worrying that asking questions to get the truth gets one labelled as "alt-right"

    The funny thing is that so far as I understand it, Trump was the person who relaxed the rules.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Off with his head.
    Pour encourager les autres.
    Beatings will continue until morale improves.
    Etc.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    There's nothing wrong with questioning authority. In fact, it used to be recommended.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    What are the odds on the duration of this one?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    edited December 2022
    thecircle said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    Ah ok. I’m angry that 20 million people are dead because some irresponsible morons thought it would be fun to make evil viruses. And that makes ME the alt right loony?

    The more sensible attitude is to say ok it’s just 20
    million corpses, not 25 million, let’s just forget about it. People make mistakes
    Hunter Biden's laptop might be linked to this. Why can't we see it? What's the big secret?
    People like kinabalu dont want to know Leon. He has his view of the world. He even thought england would win the world cup so is prone to delusions himself
    There'll be a WWC uprising against gays soon enough. Mark my words.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Leon said:

    The evidence it came from the lab is now overwhelming. Here’s the Co-head of Ecohealth outright saying it. “1000% it came from the lab”

    https://twitter.com/texas_kate/status/1600291467511050241?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg

    Looks increasingly sketchy for Fauci


    “Proximal Orchestrations: Newly released emails cast more doubt than ever on the official story of Covid-19 as a naturally occurring virus. By former longtime NYTimes science writer Nicholas Wade in @CityJournal”

    https://twitter.com/garyruskin/status/1599545098856849408?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg

    "co-head of Ecohealth"

    As usual you can't be bothered with any kind of accuracy.

    Do you deliberately spread misinformation, or are you just a moron?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    RobD said:

    What are the odds on the duration of this one?

    Can we keep it going for a while? For fun?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Andy_JS said:

    Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    There's nothing wrong with questioning authority. In fact, it used to be recommended.
    Yeah, that's all it is, sure. Alex Jones would say the same thing in his defence, yet it would clearly be bullshit.

    Note - no, Leon is no Alex Jones, but it shows the absurdity of such generalist justifications.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    edited December 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    There's nothing wrong with questioning authority. In fact, it used to be recommended.
    Bertrand Russell wrote about it.
    I tend to agree with him.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    What is the point of banning someone if they are back in seconds under a new name?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    thecircle said:

    OllyT said:

    What is the point of banning someone if they are back in seconds under a new name?

    What is the point of banning at all. This forum should be about free speech
    Those who run the forum make the rules.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841
    If you weren't bothering with the football yesterday BBC 2 was showing A Matter Of Life And Death. The story is daft of course but the 15 minute 'court' scene at the end is very good on understanding the US/UK relationship in 1945.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    thecircle said:

    OllyT said:

    What is the point of banning someone if they are back in seconds under a new name?

    What is the point of banning at all. This forum should be about free speech
    Just about everyone else manages to abide by the rules of the site, what's so special about you?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995

    TimS said:

    In Sunday afternoon news, the pub that a few weeks ago was playing Baker Street and launched me into an evening of nostalgic autumn Sunday pub track reflection has sadly moved on to Christmas bangers.

    Not yet chaps, not yet.

    I meant to ask you the other day about the Wickham Arms. It always seems a bit dodgy from the outside. I was sad to see that the Telegraph has shut down.
    The Wickham arms has the advantage of being within stone throwing distance of my front door and being friendly and frequently full of school parents, but the disadvantages of not serving decent food and having a fairly mediocre set of beers (and dreadful wines). It’s a good place to watch a footie game. The beer garden is a plain patch of grass and a missed opportunity.

    I was at the Talbot today which is many times better but not somewhere you’d watch a game.
  • TimS said:

    TimS said:

    In Sunday afternoon news, the pub that a few weeks ago was playing Baker Street and launched me into an evening of nostalgic autumn Sunday pub track reflection has sadly moved on to Christmas bangers.

    Not yet chaps, not yet.

    I meant to ask you the other day about the Wickham Arms. It always seems a bit dodgy from the outside. I was sad to see that the Telegraph has shut down.
    The Wickham arms has the advantage of being within stone throwing distance of my front door and being friendly and frequently full of school parents, but the disadvantages of not serving decent food and having a fairly mediocre set of beers (and dreadful wines). It’s a good place to watch a footie game. The beer garden is a plain patch of grass and a missed opportunity.

    I was at the Talbot today which is many times better but not somewhere you’d watch a game.
    I used to live right next door to the Talbot. Weirdly we didn't go there often but once my wife and I went in on our own and won the pub quiz. True story.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    thecircle said:

    kle4 said:

    eristdoof said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Sadly, there are top many people who have got themselves into the mental state of:

    - Ukraine is being supported by people I don't like
    Therefore
    - Ukraine is in the wrong
    Therefore
    - Putin is ok
    On the other hand there are also Ukranians who have gotten into the mind set, that all Russians are "bad". There has been wide spread criticism in the Ukraine of the Nobel Peace Prize being awarded to a Ukranian a Belarussian and a Russian organisaation this year, despite Memorial being consitantly anti-Putin and are stronly opposed to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
    Unfortunate, but one can forgive some of them might not take a broader, more fair individually, perspective in the current circumstances.
    Remember at the russian world cup how people said how friendly the russians were. There are good and bad in all countries sometimes we forget that
    There’s a (understandable and currently rather fashionable) viewpoint that until Russians renounce any claims on Ukraine including Crimea, they can’t pretend to be trustworthy or liberal.

    I do think there is merit in this view: too much so called liberalism in Russia is really just the liberal humanitarian angle on the usual imperial world view (rather like Britain’s political battles in the 19th century) but sometimes you have to seize whatever moral support you can find and I do worry that they will set the bar so high on decolonising the Russian mindset that nobody will ever be good enough.

    There is probably a happy medium here. Take the Joanna Lumley Gurkha pensions approach: say “thanks for your support, now I trust you will do/say xyz”.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    thecircle said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    The evidence it came from the lab is now overwhelming. Here’s the Co-head of Ecohealth outright saying it. “1000% it came from the lab”

    https://twitter.com/texas_kate/status/1600291467511050241?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg

    Looks increasingly sketchy for Fauci


    “Proximal Orchestrations: Newly released emails cast more doubt than ever on the official story of Covid-19 as a naturally occurring virus. By former longtime NYTimes science writer Nicholas Wade in @CityJournal”

    https://twitter.com/garyruskin/status/1599545098856849408?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg

    "co-head of Ecohealth"

    As usual you can't be bothered with any kind of accuracy.

    Do you deliberately spread misinformation, or are you just a moron?
    Hes a highly intelligent man unjustly maligned on here....a good egg
    If Leon thinks there's such such an overwhelming case that it came from the lab, how come he keeps posting things that aren't true? At the very least it implies a carelessness that doesn't suggest that he has done any thorough research into the subject.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    In Sunday afternoon news, the pub that a few weeks ago was playing Baker Street and launched me into an evening of nostalgic autumn Sunday pub track reflection has sadly moved on to Christmas bangers.

    Not yet chaps, not yet.

    I meant to ask you the other day about the Wickham Arms. It always seems a bit dodgy from the outside. I was sad to see that the Telegraph has shut down.
    The Wickham arms has the advantage of being within stone throwing distance of my front door and being friendly and frequently full of school parents, but the disadvantages of not serving decent food and having a fairly mediocre set of beers (and dreadful wines). It’s a good place to watch a footie game. The beer garden is a plain patch of grass and a missed opportunity.

    I was at the Talbot today which is many times better but not somewhere you’d watch a game.
    I used to live right next door to the Talbot. Weirdly we didn't go there often but once my wife and I went in on our own and won the pub quiz. True story.
    Talbot is much better now since new management earlier this year.

    My wife and I went to a pub quiz at the Wickham years ago and one of the teams was captained by the actor of the Swindon manager from the office. And he actually complained about another team’s cheating.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    It's amazing people get far more worked up about Elon Musk than SBF who - if the accusations are correct - has really damaged a lot of people. I wonder why that is?
    SBF seems to be a classic case of corporate malfeasance and selling poor mugs a bubble investment they don't understand, albeit on a grand scale with added technobabble. Tale as old as the stock market. Plus he's fallen and will face the legal consequences if he ever returns to the US. Musk is something almost unprecedented. One of the world's (or the) richest men, and now owner of a key part of the social internet, going down a crazed, conspiracist rabbithole where at best it's rational and a method to push some of the more dystopian views of Peter Thiel or Curtis Yarvin (and they are very nasty indeed unless you happen to be much like them), or at worst he's completely lost it and who knows where he goes next. At least Howard Hughes had the courtesy to lose the plot in private. Musk still has power and wealth - as well as now some very dangerous views. SBF has neither and appears to be more in the Elizabeth Holmes/WeWork category of frauds made plausible by the gullibility of people around tech stuff, who got well out of their depth because no one said 'hang on a minute' early enough.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    thecircle said:

    Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    What I don't understand (well I do) is why there is the view on the left that Fauci is totally innocent, must be protected at all costs and not subject to any investigation whatsoever. It's as irrational as the alt-right view.

    My own view is that it's not proven by any stretch that he is guilty of anything but that there are questions to be asked about his behaviour and actions, and these questions should be asked. It's slightly worrying that asking questions to get the truth gets one labelled as "alt-right"

    Read the book the real anthony Fauci by robert kennedy junior...Fauci suppressed early treatments for covid so he could use vaccines as the only way out of the pandemic
    Robert Kennedy Junior is gigantic twat and scumbag. His advocating something is a strong indication that it is a pile of bullshit. Especially when it comes to vaccines. Where RK raised his twattery to galactic levels.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    dixiedean said:

    thecircle said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon - seriously your descent into alt-right looniness reminds me of Plato. Seek help.

    Ah ok. I’m angry that 20 million people are dead because some irresponsible morons thought it would be fun to make evil viruses. And that makes ME the alt right loony?

    The more sensible attitude is to say ok it’s just 20
    million corpses, not 25 million, let’s just forget about it. People make mistakes
    Hunter Biden's laptop might be linked to this. Why can't we see it? What's the big secret?
    People like kinabalu dont want to know Leon. He has his view of the world. He even thought england would win the world cup so is prone to delusions himself
    There'll be a WWC uprising against gays soon enough. Mark my words.
    What have the Woke Women’s Conference got against gays?

    Or is that the Worcester Wiibblers Collective?

    As a half Jewish, lapsed Freemason who knows the people behind the Illuminati, keeping all these conspiracies straight is bloody complex.

    And the dividend cheque is late again. I guess I’ll have to talk to the Lizard Men in accounts again, on Monday. Bet they will be hibernating because of the snow. I told management that’s employing ectotherms in this climate….
  • TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    In Sunday afternoon news, the pub that a few weeks ago was playing Baker Street and launched me into an evening of nostalgic autumn Sunday pub track reflection has sadly moved on to Christmas bangers.

    Not yet chaps, not yet.

    I meant to ask you the other day about the Wickham Arms. It always seems a bit dodgy from the outside. I was sad to see that the Telegraph has shut down.
    The Wickham arms has the advantage of being within stone throwing distance of my front door and being friendly and frequently full of school parents, but the disadvantages of not serving decent food and having a fairly mediocre set of beers (and dreadful wines). It’s a good place to watch a footie game. The beer garden is a plain patch of grass and a missed opportunity.

    I was at the Talbot today which is many times better but not somewhere you’d watch a game.
    I used to live right next door to the Talbot. Weirdly we didn't go there often but once my wife and I went in on our own and won the pub quiz. True story.
    Talbot is much better now since new management earlier this year.

    My wife and I went to a pub quiz at the Wickham years ago and one of the teams was captained by the actor of the Swindon manager from the office. And he actually complained about another team’s cheating.
    I'll check the Talbot out again. There are some good pubs locally but they all need our custom. In the last few years we've lost some good ones - the Montague Arms, the White Hart and now apparently the Telegraph. I love Skehans but it's often too busy these days. I like the Golden Anchor too. Some good places in Nunhead as well.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    London inner suburbs in the snow this evening are looking proper Dickensian. Almost makes the eye watering smartmeter totals worth it. (Almost).
  • TimS said:

    London inner suburbs in the snow this evening are looking proper Dickensian. Almost makes the eye watering smartmeter totals worth it. (Almost).

    TinyTimS.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    edited December 2022
    TimS said:

    London inner suburbs in the snow this evening are looking proper Dickensian. Almost makes the eye watering smartmeter totals worth it. (Almost).

    Two views this evening. The first is of one of my 3 olive trees on a south-facing terrace.



  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    edited December 2022
    I expect all the schools in London will be closed tomorrow. This is the most snow I've seen in over 10 years.
  • New thread.
This discussion has been closed.