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Vote blue, go green? – politicalbetting.com

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  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so will you all too.

    I suspect in Estonia your actual insulation also insulates you from the cold. And fraught-proof windows. Unlike our solid brick walls and leaky sashes.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    I wonder if you have grasped the hang of this net zero business?

    Increasing fossil-C C02 in the air is not advancing the national interest, especially if it encouraged other states to do the same.
    If carbon capture is such a wonderful technology - why hasn’t anyone demonstrated it at scale?

    Despite all the Republican politicians, in the US, funnelling money into “research”?
    It does seem to be one of those things, like tidal or wave power, that is forever on the cusp of being rolled out at scale but never actually happens. I suspect the cost is greater than the financial benefit at the moment. A bit like grid level battery storage which is only advancing at a snail’s pace.
    Personally I think battery storage is a bit of a red herring. There are big pumped hydro storage projects waiting to go in Scotland and Wales, and these make more sense. In my opinion, the Government just needs to announce that it will be tapering off and eventually abolishing constraint payments for wind, and the wind investors will make these projects happen. At the moment it would harm their profits to do so.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    I wonder if you have grasped the hang of this net zero business?

    Increasing fossil-C C02 in the air is not advancing the national interest, especially if it encouraged other states to do the same.
    Who do you think is waiting for Britain to make it socially acceptable to burn coal? Everyone else is doing it already as and when they need to. America has 850 coal mines! The Germans are burning it like it's going out of fashion (or coming back into it). Carbon capture technology can be applied, and we need CO2 for the drinks industry in any case. These arguments are simply absurd.
    Underground mine with all the economics that implies? For a specialist form of coal not likely to be much needed? Fracking all over again. I wonder what the next Tory "battleground" will be? Harvesting Great Crested Newt eggs for incineration at Drax?



    Hard to have a mine that isn't underground.
    Not at all. Open-cast mining is far more efficient. Which is what killed off the deep mines in the UK.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    ping said:

    Oh dear;

    @wmpolice

    We are currently at the scene of a serious incident at Babbs Mill Park, Fordbridge Road, #Kingshurst, #Solihull.

    A number of people have been pulled from a lake and are being transported to hospital. They are believed to be in a critical condition.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-63937739

    Grim. BBC report mentions something possibly similar up in Cumbria.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    On another topic from previous threads - favourite sporting events

    I haven't been to see many great ones live. Probably top of my list is having been at Wembley for the Euro 96 QF against Spain that we won on penalties

    The one I enjoyed most on TV was Ben Stokes on day four at Headingly in 2019. I think a ticket to that might have been the best value sporting entertainment for me of my life so far. I envy those lucky enough to have been there

    I asked my Dad about his favourite sporting event he'd attended and it was Desert Orchid winning the Gold Cup. He didn't even bet on him. It must be tough being a Spurs season ticket holder

    On TV Ashes 2k5

    In real life, this Viv Richards ODI innings:
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-england-1984-61869/england-vs-west-indies-1st-odi-64976/full-scorecard

    From a betting / pinsticker pov, RWC 2003 final, where I put down 20-17 as the score prediction for the office sweep.
    (if you broke down that it would be a hard game with few tries, likely in the corners and possibly unconverted, and with a fairly typical number of kicks over the H for the time, it was a really good prediction but I don't think an outrageous one).
    That scorecard is incredible

    WI had three players reach double figures

    England had five

    WI won by 104 runs
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,765
    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    I wonder if you have grasped the hang of this net zero business?

    Increasing fossil-C C02 in the air is not advancing the national interest, especially if it encouraged other states to do the same.
    Who do you think is waiting for Britain to make it socially acceptable to burn coal? Everyone else is doing it already as and when they need to. America has 850 coal mines! The Germans are burning it like it's going out of fashion (or coming back into it). Carbon capture technology can be applied, and we need CO2 for the drinks industry in any case. These arguments are simply absurd.
    Underground mine with all the economics that implies? For a specialist form of coal not likely to be much needed? Fracking all over again. I wonder what the next Tory "battleground" will be? Harvesting Great Crested Newt eggs for incineration at Drax?



    Hard to have a mine that isn't underground.
    Not at all. Open-cast mining is far more efficient. Which is what killed off the deep mines in the UK.
    Sure, but you're still digging and recovering things that are under the ground.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    Coking coal is different to thermal coal. You can't use it at Drax. You can use it at Scunthorpe.

    Funnily enough, Drax wanted to build a clean coal plant - White Rose. A certain George Osborne withdrew the £1 billion funding and killed the project overnight. Now they want to add carbon capture to their forest burners.
    If it is such a great technology, why is it that it hasn’t worked yet, despite billions invested?

  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so will you all too.

    Good luck, I heard the conditions in Finland are bad, restricted speeds on the highways, hard to overtake etc. They are usually pretty good at keeping the planes running though.

    Not sure what other people are seeing but here on the south coast we have now got snow adding to the UK permacrisis. Its the heaviest snow I have seen in the decade I've lived here. Was briefly beautiful but I saw an asda van skid around a corner and nearly collide in to a parked car. Looks like it is going to go in to rain/slush as we are around zero degrees, but more forecast for the rest of the evening in any scenario.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    I wonder if you have grasped the hang of this net zero business?

    Increasing fossil-C C02 in the air is not advancing the national interest, especially if it encouraged other states to do the same.
    Who do you think is waiting for Britain to make it socially acceptable to burn coal? Everyone else is doing it already as and when they need to. America has 850 coal mines! The Germans are burning it like it's going out of fashion (or coming back into it). Carbon capture technology can be applied, and we need CO2 for the drinks industry in any case. These arguments are simply absurd.
    Underground mine with all the economics that implies? For a specialist form of coal not likely to be much needed? Fracking all over again. I wonder what the next Tory "battleground" will be? Harvesting Great Crested Newt eggs for incineration at Drax?



    Hard to have a mine that isn't underground.
    Not at all. Open-cast mining is far more efficient. Which is what killed off the deep mines in the UK.
    Sure, but you're still digging and recovering things that are under the ground.
    Ah, yes, I see, thanks. 'Deep mine' is the more correct term.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,718
    @darkage I note that you have a couple of mökkis in Finland. So do we, in Iitti. May I ask in which kunta yours are?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    darkage said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so will you all too.

    Good luck, I heard the conditions in Finland are bad, restricted speeds on the highways, hard to overtake etc. They are usually pretty good at keeping the planes running though.

    Not sure what other people are seeing but here on the south coast we have now got snow adding to the UK permacrisis. Its the heaviest snow I have seen in the decade I've lived here. Was briefly beautiful but I saw an asda van skid around a corner and nearly collide in to a parked car. Looks like it is going to go in to rain/slush as we are around zero degrees, but more forecast for the rest of the evening in any scenario.

    Nothing here in WY, just your typical cold spell, a lot of the snow is coastal flurries with the odd push a little inland.

    That said, I was in up in the Pennine valleys yesterday, with the yellow warning area stopping in the hills just shy of the town, and it was pretty spectacular to see that in action, cloud cover alternately descending onto the hill and then abating to reveal a light snow line exactly matching where those clouds has been.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Pro_Rata said:

    darkage said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so will you all too.

    Good luck, I heard the conditions in Finland are bad, restricted speeds on the highways, hard to overtake etc. They are usually pretty good at keeping the planes running though.

    Not sure what other people are seeing but here on the south coast we have now got snow adding to the UK permacrisis. Its the heaviest snow I have seen in the decade I've lived here. Was briefly beautiful but I saw an asda van skid around a corner and nearly collide in to a parked car. Looks like it is going to go in to rain/slush as we are around zero degrees, but more forecast for the rest of the evening in any scenario.

    Nothing here in WY, just your typical cold spell, a lot of the snow is coastal flurries with the odd push a little inland.

    That said, I was in up in the Pennine valleys yesterday, with the yellow warning area stopping in the hills just shy of the town, and it was pretty spectacular to see that in action, cloud cover alternately descending onto the hill and then abating to reveal a light snow line exactly matching where those clouds has been.
    There's been snow in Cannock, but only light stuff. If anything it seems a bit warmer now and the rime that's been around all week has dissipated.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    A very quick search found a number of articles that describe current CO2 supplementation in greenhouses For example: "Together with water, CO2 is the nutrient that a plant needs most. That is why growers add additional CO2 to their crop. Although this gas is present in the atmosphere, it is not enough to sufficiently provide the crop with CO2. The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is 400 ppm averagely, but in the glass horticulture higher CO2-values are pursued for an optimally growing crop. In that instance extra dosing of CO2 in the greenhouse is the only option left. It can be done in different ways. In this article, our specialist will specify the possibilities."
    source: https://royalbrinkman.com/knowledge-center/crop-care/increase-concentration-co2-greenhouse

    It's my impression that it is moe common in the Netherlands than elsewhere, but I haven't seen any numbers.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270

    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    I wonder if you have grasped the hang of this net zero business?

    Increasing fossil-C C02 in the air is not advancing the national interest, especially if it encouraged other states to do the same.
    If carbon capture is such a wonderful technology - why hasn’t anyone demonstrated it at scale?

    Despite all the Republican politicians, in the US, funnelling money into “research”?
    It does seem to be one of those things, like tidal or wave power, that is forever on the cusp of being rolled out at scale but never actually happens. I suspect the cost is greater than the financial benefit at the moment. A bit like grid level battery storage which is only advancing at a snail’s pace.
    Personally I think battery storage is a bit of a red herring. There are big pumped hydro storage projects waiting to go in Scotland and Wales, and these make more sense. In my opinion, the Government just needs to announce that it will be tapering off and eventually abolishing constraint payments for wind, and the wind investors will make these projects happen. At the moment it would harm their profits to do so.
    There are limited locations for pumped storage.

    Battery storage makes sense for grid balancing at the moment, and storage for car charging. Going forward, it’s scalability, up and down in project size, combined with steadily decreasing cost make growth fairly inevitable.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    I wonder if you have grasped the hang of this net zero business?

    Increasing fossil-C C02 in the air is not advancing the national interest, especially if it encouraged other states to do the same.
    Who do you think is waiting for Britain to make it socially acceptable to burn coal? Everyone else is doing it already as and when they need to. America has 850 coal mines! The Germans are burning it like it's going out of fashion (or coming back into it). Carbon capture technology can be applied, and we need CO2 for the drinks industry in any case. These arguments are simply absurd.
    Underground mine with all the economics that implies? For a specialist form of coal not likely to be much needed? Fracking all over again. I wonder what the next Tory "battleground" will be? Harvesting Great Crested Newt eggs for incineration at Drax?



    Hard to have a mine that isn't underground.
    Not at all. Open-cast mining is far more efficient. Which is what killed off the deep mines in the UK.
    The open cast lignite mines south of Leipzig are a sight to behold and it's interesting to compare their size to the city itself...

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Leipzig,+Germany/@51.2596874,12.253134,45248m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47a6f818200f2c73:0x93df80d2b9b4f552!8m2!3d51.3396955!4d12.3730747
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    edited December 2022
    In Sunday afternoon news, the pub that a few weeks ago was playing Baker Street and launched me into an evening of nostalgic autumn Sunday pub track reflection has sadly moved on to Christmas bangers.

    Not yet chaps, not yet.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    I wonder if you have grasped the hang of this net zero business?

    Increasing fossil-C C02 in the air is not advancing the national interest, especially if it encouraged other states to do the same.
    If carbon capture is such a wonderful technology - why hasn’t anyone demonstrated it at scale?

    Despite all the Republican politicians, in the US, funnelling money into “research”?
    It has been demonstrated at scale. Boundary Dam in Canada, 1 million tonnes per annum. Petra Nova in the USA, 1.4 mtpa.
    The clue is in the fact that people need billions in subsidies for research for new plants - the technology is wildly uneconomic. Mostly due to basic physical constraints.

    Otherwise @rcs1000 would be making gazillions raising finance to make coal plant carbon neutral.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    On thread I would vote blue to avoid yelllow
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    Gadfly said:

    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    I wonder if you have grasped the hang of this net zero business?

    Increasing fossil-C C02 in the air is not advancing the national interest, especially if it encouraged other states to do the same.
    Who do you think is waiting for Britain to make it socially acceptable to burn coal? Everyone else is doing it already as and when they need to. America has 850 coal mines! The Germans are burning it like it's going out of fashion (or coming back into it). Carbon capture technology can be applied, and we need CO2 for the drinks industry in any case. These arguments are simply absurd.
    Underground mine with all the economics that implies? For a specialist form of coal not likely to be much needed? Fracking all over again. I wonder what the next Tory "battleground" will be? Harvesting Great Crested Newt eggs for incineration at Drax?



    Hard to have a mine that isn't underground.
    Not at all. Open-cast mining is far more efficient. Which is what killed off the deep mines in the UK.
    The open cast lignite mines south of Leipzig are a sight to behold and it's interesting to compare their size to the city itself...

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Leipzig,+Germany/@51.2596874,12.253134,45248m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47a6f818200f2c73:0x93df80d2b9b4f552!8m2!3d51.3396955!4d12.3730747
    Although (if I've scaled this correctly) the cerrejón mine in Columbia (left) is massively bigger....


  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,765
    Re header. Tory green credentials aren't so bad overall. Much like their record on equalities.

    I think that peoples expectation is that the left would have done far better in such things, but it's not the case.

    You really could have a far right Green party. (Lead by Cabbage XIII)
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,134
    TimS said:

    has sadly moved on to Christmas bangers

    ...pigs in blankets ?

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,360
    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    I didn't know Quebec was the target of multiple genocides by Anglophone Canada or indeed had its own UN seat.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Sadly, there are top many people who have got themselves into the mental state of:

    - Ukraine is being supported by people I don't like
    Therefore
    - Ukraine is in the wrong
    Therefore
    - Putin is ok
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    A very quick search found a number of articles that describe current CO2 supplementation in greenhouses For example: "Together with water, CO2 is the nutrient that a plant needs most. That is why growers add additional CO2 to their crop. Although this gas is present in the atmosphere, it is not enough to sufficiently provide the crop with CO2. The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is 400 ppm averagely, but in the glass horticulture higher CO2-values are pursued for an optimally growing crop. In that instance extra dosing of CO2 in the greenhouse is the only option left. It can be done in different ways. In this article, our specialist will specify the possibilities."
    source: https://royalbrinkman.com/knowledge-center/crop-care/increase-concentration-co2-greenhouse

    It's my impression that it is moe common in the Netherlands than elsewhere, but I haven't seen any numbers.

    It's common in Finland too.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    Coking coal is different to thermal coal. You can't use it at Drax. You can use it at Scunthorpe.

    Funnily enough, Drax wanted to build a clean coal plant - White Rose. A certain George Osborne withdrew the £1 billion funding and killed the project overnight. Now they want to add carbon capture to their forest burners.
    Ah Ok, thanks for the info. I thought it would burn whatever you chucked in. And yeh, Osborne. What can we say?
    I don't think Sandy is completely correct. You could burn metallurgical coal in Drax.

    But you probably shouldn't. The energy content of thermal coal is about 8,000 calories/kilo, while it's 3x level for metallurgical coal. My gut is that putting coal in that is 3x as energy dense is not going to do your power station any good.
  • In the annual PB Poster awards there should be one for poster of best unknown music

    And I should be leading for Monsieur Periné

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    Coking coal is different to thermal coal. You can't use it at Drax. You can use it at Scunthorpe.

    Funnily enough, Drax wanted to build a clean coal plant - White Rose. A certain George Osborne withdrew the £1 billion funding and killed the project overnight. Now they want to add carbon capture to their forest burners.
    Ah Ok, thanks for the info. I thought it would burn whatever you chucked in. And yeh, Osborne. What can we say?
    I don't think Sandy is completely correct. You could burn metallurgical coal in Drax.

    But you probably shouldn't. The energy content of thermal coal is about 8,000 calories/kilo, while it's 3x level for metallurgical coal. My gut is that putting coal in that is 3x as energy dense is not going to do your power station any good.
    I would think you can probably just blow it in at about 1/3 of the rate you'd use thermal coal. I'd imagine the reason you don't normally fire it is more likely to be that it's more than 3x the price of thermal coal.
  • M45M45 Posts: 216

    In the annual PB Poster awards there should be one for poster of best unknown music

    And I should be leading for Monsieur Periné

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    A perineal favourite. The French are as good at names. This is almost in the Les Negresses Vertes class.
  • Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Please sir, please sir, I can think of another shit political analogy involving Quebec.
  • M45 said:

    In the annual PB Poster awards there should be one for poster of best unknown music

    And I should be leading for Monsieur Periné

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    A perineal favourite. The French are as good at names. This is almost in the Les Negresses Vertes class.
    Are any of the French as good as the Columbians?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Sadly, there are top many people who have got themselves into the mental state of:

    - Ukraine is being supported by people I don't like
    Therefore
    - Ukraine is in the wrong
    Therefore
    - Putin is ok
    Not to mention a certain admiration for Russia Stonk!!

    The Love That Dare Not Speak Its Name.

    “It’s not that I like Putin. Some of my best friends are anti-Putin. But….”
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,360
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    My
    I didn't know Quebec was the target of multiple genocides by Anglophone Canada or indeed had its own UN seat.
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Sadly, there are top many people who have got themselves into the mental state of:

    - Ukraine is being supported by people I don't like
    Therefore
    - Ukraine is in the wrong
    Therefore
    - Putin is ok
    I think Hitchens regrets the downfall of the Soviet Union.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    A friend of mine has just come back from Ukraine. Was shelled in Kherson. Says Kyiv is a party town and you can rent a car in Moldova and simply drive to Odesa

    He also told me that the war is much less black and white when you get there

    🤷‍♂️
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    Coking coal is different to thermal coal. You can't use it at Drax. You can use it at Scunthorpe.

    Funnily enough, Drax wanted to build a clean coal plant - White Rose. A certain George Osborne withdrew the £1 billion funding and killed the project overnight. Now they want to add carbon capture to their forest burners.
    If it is such a great technology, why is it that it hasn’t worked yet, despite billions invested?

    Carbon capture does work. However, since emitters do not have to cover the true cost of the negative externalities they generate, without subsidy it is currently financially advantageous to carry on emitting and just pay for the Emission Trading Scheme permits.

    Ironically, it is the redneck end of the US that has been leading the way, where, firstly,the CO2 can be sold for enhanced oil recovery and, secondly, if you capture you receive tax credits.

    Anyhow, in Q1 2023 our government should announce which carbon capture projects they are minded to support under the Track 1 process, linked to the HyNet and East Coast Clusters. This will include power generation, blue hydrogen and a range of industrial emitters.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    I wonder if you have grasped the hang of this net zero business?

    Increasing fossil-C C02 in the air is not advancing the national interest, especially if it encouraged other states to do the same.
    If carbon capture is such a wonderful technology - why hasn’t anyone demonstrated it at scale?

    Despite all the Republican politicians, in the US, funnelling money into “research”?
    It has been demonstrated at scale. Boundary Dam in Canada, 1 million tonnes per annum. Petra Nova in the USA, 1.4 mtpa.
    The clue is in the fact that people need billions in subsidies for research for new plants - the technology is wildly uneconomic. Mostly due to basic physical constraints.

    Otherwise @rcs1000 would be making gazillions raising finance to make coal plant carbon neutral.
    Emitting CO2 would be wildly uneconomic if the emitters had to cover the full cost of negative externalities.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    edited December 2022

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    Coking coal is different to thermal coal. You can't use it at Drax. You can use it at Scunthorpe.

    Funnily enough, Drax wanted to build a clean coal plant - White Rose. A certain George Osborne withdrew the £1 billion funding and killed the project overnight. Now they want to add carbon capture to their forest burners.
    If it is such a great technology, why is it that it hasn’t worked yet, despite billions invested?

    Carbon capture does work. However, since emitters do not have to cover the true cost of the negative externalities they generate, without subsidy it is currently financially advantageous to carry on emitting and just pay for the Emission Trading Scheme permits.

    Ironically, it is the redneck end of the US that has been leading the way, where, firstly,the CO2 can be sold for enhanced oil recovery and, secondly, if you capture you receive tax credits.

    Anyhow, in Q1 2023 our government should announce which carbon capture projects they are minded to support under the Track 1 process, linked to the HyNet and East Coast Clusters. This will include power generation, blue hydrogen and a range of industrial emitters.
    The reason that carbon capture for coal doesn’t get a bung from the government, in the U.K., is that the business case refuses to close - you end up with electricity that is more expensive than many other options. Until someone can come up with a plan that actually makes economic sense, why?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    For those who are bored... there is v good programme on c4 now about the restoration of Big Ben.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    Coking coal is different to thermal coal. You can't use it at Drax. You can use it at Scunthorpe.

    Funnily enough, Drax wanted to build a clean coal plant - White Rose. A certain George Osborne withdrew the £1 billion funding and killed the project overnight. Now they want to add carbon capture to their forest burners.
    If it is such a great technology, why is it that it hasn’t worked yet, despite billions invested?

    Carbon capture does work. However, since emitters do not have to cover the true cost of the negative externalities they generate, without subsidy it is currently financially advantageous to carry on emitting and just pay for the Emission Trading Scheme permits.

    Ironically, it is the redneck end of the US that has been leading the way, where, firstly,the CO2 can be sold for enhanced oil recovery and, secondly, if you capture you receive tax credits.

    Anyhow, in Q1 2023 our government should announce which carbon capture projects they are minded to support under the Track 1 process, linked to the HyNet and East Coast Clusters. This will include power generation, blue hydrogen and a range of industrial emitters.
    The reason that carbon capture for coal doesn’t get a bung from the government, in the U.K., is that the business case refuses to close - you end up with electricity that is more expensive than many other options. Until someone can come up with a plan that actually makes economic sense, why?
    Since nobody has come forward with a proposal for a coal fired plant with capture in the latest competition, we can't compare the costs with those of a CCGT with capture. There is a tradeoff between Capex and Opex, and over a 20 or 25 year timeline I would not like to say which has the lower £/MWh.
  • TimS said:

    In Sunday afternoon news, the pub that a few weeks ago was playing Baker Street and launched me into an evening of nostalgic autumn Sunday pub track reflection has sadly moved on to Christmas bangers.

    Not yet chaps, not yet.

    Only a fortnight to go.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    My
    I didn't know Quebec was the target of multiple genocides by Anglophone Canada or indeed had its own UN seat.
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Sadly, there are top many people who have got themselves into the mental state of:

    - Ukraine is being supported by people I don't like
    Therefore
    - Ukraine is in the wrong
    Therefore
    - Putin is ok
    I think Hitchens regrets the downfall of the Soviet Union.
    Peter Hitchens, Catholic apologist, regret the downfall of the Soviet Union?*

    Much more likely he sees Putin as the saviour of Christian civilisation against the unwashed barbarian hordes of the Woke and therefore he must be supported.

    *ironic to reflect that probably would have fitted his brother's views.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    My
    I didn't know Quebec was the target of multiple genocides by Anglophone Canada or indeed had its own UN seat.
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Sadly, there are top many people who have got themselves into the mental state of:

    - Ukraine is being supported by people I don't like
    Therefore
    - Ukraine is in the wrong
    Therefore
    - Putin is ok
    I think Hitchens regrets the downfall of the Soviet Union.
    Peter Hitchens, Catholic apologist, regret the downfall of the Soviet Union?*

    Much more likely he sees Putin as the saviour of Christian civilisation against the unwashed barbarian hordes of the Woke and therefore he must be supported.

    *ironic to reflect that probably would have fitted his brother's views.
    Don't tell Leon a B-list writer has stolen his platform.
  • ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    My
    I didn't know Quebec was the target of multiple genocides by Anglophone Canada or indeed had its own UN seat.
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Sadly, there are top many people who have got themselves into the mental state of:

    - Ukraine is being supported by people I don't like
    Therefore
    - Ukraine is in the wrong
    Therefore
    - Putin is ok
    I think Hitchens regrets the downfall of the Soviet Union.
    Peter Hitchens, Catholic apologist, regret the downfall of the Soviet Union?*

    Much more likely he sees Putin as the saviour of Christian civilisation against the unwashed barbarian hordes of the Woke and therefore he must be supported.

    *ironic to reflect that probably would have fitted his brother's views.
    Given that Peter Hitchins has not expressed the views you sort of make up for him your post is weak
  • OT Deliveroo shows all the local restaurants as "back soon" so either the snow has put all the riders off (and tbf, I'd not blame them) or there has been some sort of incident that has closed the roads. Another part of London looks normal.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Lol


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Sadly, there are top many people who have got themselves into the mental state of:

    - Ukraine is being supported by people I don't like
    Therefore
    - Ukraine is in the wrong
    Therefore
    - Putin is ok
    This happens all the time on all sorts of numbers of issues.
    Never underestimate the ability of people to overcome cognitive dissonance.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    edited December 2022
    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/medicare-canadians-private-care

    "Medicare meltdown: Wait-weary Canadians ready to embrace private care
    'People's minds are changing': Canadian health care has always struggled with wait times, but the pandemic has pushed the system to a breaking point"

    Canada has struggled with waiting lists like the UK for decades, so this makes an interesting read for comparison. Their system is mostly public, but not wholly so.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Omnium said:

    Re header. Tory green credentials aren't so bad overall. Much like their record on equalities.

    I think that peoples expectation is that the left would have done far better in such things, but it's not the case.

    You really could have a far right Green party. (Lead by Cabbage XIII)

    I'm sure NickPalmer has spoken of Green parties on the continent who are not radical leftist parties, it really isn't a requirement, which is why when our own Green Party does go down that route it seems so unnecessary.

    At least as far as the green part goes. Of course, as other parties become more green - and even the Tories are clearly a lot greener than they were - being radical differentiates their brand.

    Which is fine as far as it goes, were it not for them still trying to claim the mantle of only party who are truly green.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    My
    I didn't know Quebec was the target of multiple genocides by Anglophone Canada or indeed had its own UN seat.
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Sadly, there are top many people who have got themselves into the mental state of:

    - Ukraine is being supported by people I don't like
    Therefore
    - Ukraine is in the wrong
    Therefore
    - Putin is ok
    I think Hitchens regrets the downfall of the Soviet Union.
    Peter Hitchens, Catholic apologist, regret the downfall of the Soviet Union?*

    Much more likely he sees Putin as the saviour of Christian civilisation against the unwashed barbarian hordes of the Woke and therefore he must be supported.

    *ironic to reflect that probably would have fitted his brother's views.
    I agree with Cicero’s characterisation.
    Hitchens is morally bankrupt. No surprise he’s a fan of an authoritarian, even one who’s genocidal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    For those who are bored... there is v good programme on c4 now about the restoration of Big Ben.

    That would only depress me about the rest of the Palace falling into ruin because MPs are too stubborn to notice it will only get more and more expensive the more they wait.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    DavidL said:

    On another topic from previous threads - favourite sporting events

    I haven't been to see many great ones live. Probably top of my list is having been at Wembley for the Euro 96 QF against Spain that we won on penalties

    The one I enjoyed most on TV was Ben Stokes on day four at Headingly in 2019. I think a ticket to that might have been the best value sporting entertainment for me of my life so far. I envy those lucky enough to have been there

    I asked my Dad about his favourite sporting event he'd attended and it was Desert Orchid winning the Gold Cup. He didn't even bet on him. It must be tough being a Spurs season ticket holder

    I think my very best was when England and India tied a ODI at Lords on Duckworth Lewis on 11th Sept 2011. It was easily the most brilliant day of cricket I have been at (although Broad skittling Australia at Nottingham was seriously close).
    You were there for the 8 for 15?!

    Seriously jealous of that too, if so!
    Yes. It was brilliant and the Aussies took it in rather good spirit with the batsmen laughing and making it crystal clear they had no idea which line the ball was coming down. Basically stick your bat out and hope.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    The evidence it came from the lab is now overwhelming. Here’s the Co-head of Ecohealth outright saying it. “1000% it came from the lab”

    https://twitter.com/texas_kate/status/1600291467511050241?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg

    Looks increasingly sketchy for Fauci


    “Proximal Orchestrations: Newly released emails cast more doubt than ever on the official story of Covid-19 as a naturally occurring virus. By former longtime NYTimes science writer Nicholas Wade in @CityJournal”

    https://twitter.com/garyruskin/status/1599545098856849408?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    kle4 said:

    For those who are bored... there is v good programme on c4 now about the restoration of Big Ben.

    That would only depress me about the rest of the Palace falling into ruin because MPs are too stubborn to notice it will only get more and more expensive the more they wait.
    They don't care - it's not their own money. They are skilled at the art of kicking a problem down the road. The main reason in this case being that they don't want to move out of London even for a year. Can't say I blame them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    DJ41 said:

    kle4 said:

    For those who are bored... there is v good programme on c4 now about the restoration of Big Ben.

    That would only depress me about the rest of the Palace falling into ruin because MPs are too stubborn to notice it will only get more and more expensive the more they wait.
    They don't care - it's not their own money. They are skilled at the art of kicking a problem down the road. The main reason in this case being that they don't want to move out of London even for a year. Can't say I blame them.
    Finding somewhere to use in London does not seem impossible.

    Christ, that silly idea about building a temporary meeting place on the Thames next to the Palace would probably have cost less than the extra amount from both waiting, and/or not vacating the Palace during renovations.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022
    Omnium said:

    Re header. Tory green credentials aren't so bad overall. Much like their record on equalities.

    I think that peoples expectation is that the left would have done far better in such things, but it's not the case.

    You really could have a far right Green party. (Lead by Cabbage XIII)

    Greenism is far right. Walther von Darré says hello.

    Of all the observations I've made to people over the years, "Greenism is far right" is the one that tops the list for the number of people who've approached me years later, sometimes several years later, sometimes without me remembering who they are, to tell me "You know what you said? Well I thought you were a nutter at the time, but you were absolutely right."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    The snow drives thickly aslant the silent, pastel streets of Primrose Hill
  • M45M45 Posts: 216
    DJ41 said:

    kle4 said:

    For those who are bored... there is v good programme on c4 now about the restoration of Big Ben.

    That would only depress me about the rest of the Palace falling into ruin because MPs are too stubborn to notice it will only get more and more expensive the more they wait.
    They don't care - it's not their own money. They are skilled at the art of kicking a problem down the road. The main reason in this case being that they don't want to move out of London even for a year. Can't say I blame them.
    The problem is, the dosh required is so much that people will notice, and blame whoever is the government at the time
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    Leon said:

    Lol


    For a supposed man of science he does take some strangely anti-science views.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    kle4 said:

    Omnium said:

    Re header. Tory green credentials aren't so bad overall. Much like their record on equalities.

    I think that peoples expectation is that the left would have done far better in such things, but it's not the case.

    You really could have a far right Green party. (Lead by Cabbage XIII)

    I'm sure NickPalmer has spoken of Green parties on the continent who are not radical leftist parties, it really isn't a requirement, which is why when our own Green Party does go down that route it seems so unnecessary.

    At least as far as the green part goes. Of course, as other parties become more green - and even the Tories are clearly a lot greener than they were - being radical differentiates their brand.

    Which is fine as far as it goes, were it not for them still trying to claim the mantle of only party who are truly green.
    What pisses me off with the Green Party is the fact that they waste so much of their limited air time wibbling on about random woke shite instead of being 100% focused on environmentalism.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Is there no end to France winning things?

    Junior Eurovision: France wins song contest as UK comes fifth

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63916729
  • TresTres Posts: 2,700
    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    Its Minus 11 and a blizzard is forecast for Monday morning, and even the Estonian emergency App is suggesting that road conditions will be "quite dangerous".

    In fact I´m planning to connect to the UK via Helsinki on Wednesday, but several friends in transit to Tallinn are going to be very late in tonight, so I am somewhat apprehensive that the combo of the permacrisis of the UK these days, and the bad weather at both ends will allow me to get to my destination on time. Perhaps I should stay the night in London before I go onward on Thursday, but the Rail strikes are making this option pretty tricky too.

    The headline news is the delivery to Estonia of new K9 self propelled howitzers and US units with HIMARS. Putin is now making bellicose threats to Kazakhstan, so as the Kremlin has a massive nervous breakdown, we can not afford to take too many chances. The news from Bakhmut is of utter carnage, which Russian mobinik units being literally decimated in a pointless, futile and cruel attempt to break the Ukrainian lines by shear force of numbers. It is literally criminal what the Russian high command and the Wagner scum are doing to their own side, it is a sickening and horrible massacre on a scale not seen since the Somme. The horrifying thing is that there is still a small chance that it could work. I note that blubbery blow hard, Peter Hitchens has come out attacking Ukraine- what a complete #%#hole that man truly is. If, at the height of the brutal and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by the Putinists you still equivocate as to who the baddies are, then clearly you are without any moral compass or common sense. It bothers me that so many opinion-formers in the UK- Mary Dejevsky is another- seem unable to see the plain truth of absolute evil in the Kremlin.

    Anyway I trust that those in both Scotland and England that are facing the cold blast are not overly inconvenienced, At least here in Estonia the snow insulates us a bit from the frost. Mulled wine and hot coffee are keeping us warm and though so much snow is a bit of a pain, it is being
    cleared up and after the blizzard tomorrow we will be back to our usual winter normal. Hopefully so
    will you all too.

    Hitchens’ analogy, comparing Ukraine under the Soviets, to Quebec in Canada, is very weak.

    Sadly, there are top many people who have got themselves into the mental state of:

    - Ukraine is being supported by people I don't like
    Therefore
    - Ukraine is in the wrong
    Therefore
    - Putin is ok
    Then there's:

    -I quite like the cut of the jib of that antiwoke Putin chap.

    *Putin attempts a mini Barbarossa in reverse, incompetently*

    -Jeez, everyone hates & despises Putin now, I'd better pretend to hate & despise him too or else I'll look like a dick.

  • Leon said:

    The snow drives thickly aslant the silent, pastel streets of Primrose Hill

    Not the best Haiku.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    The evidence it came from the lab is now overwhelming. Here’s the Co-head of Ecohealth outright saying it. “1000% it came from the lab”

    https://twitter.com/texas_kate/status/1600291467511050241?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg

    Looks increasingly sketchy for Fauci


    “Proximal Orchestrations: Newly released emails cast more doubt than ever on the official story of Covid-19 as a naturally occurring virus. By former longtime NYTimes science writer Nicholas Wade in @CityJournal”

    https://twitter.com/garyruskin/status/1599545098856849408?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg

    How can we trust someone who says 1000 percent, when they mean 100 percent? :)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
  • The Hitchens brothers are fascinating.

    Both skilled advocates but quite quite barking.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    OT Deliveroo shows all the local restaurants as "back soon" so either the snow has put all the riders off (and tbf, I'd not blame them) or there has been some sort of incident that has closed the roads. Another part of London looks normal.

    Thawed up here today, which may well be the reason for the lake incident in Solihull earlier.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    Let’s wait and see the next Twitter Files infodump. It sounds like they have evidence of the lab leak hypothesis being suppressed

    Fauci no longer has a Democrat House to protect him
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ydoethur said:

    darkage said:

    ydoethur said:

    M45 said:

    https://twitter.com/DCBMEP/status/1601895861331664896

    David C Bannerman
    @DCBMEP
    Today we have launched CDO - the Conservative Democratic Organisation. We are not a new party but want a true party - a truly democratic Conservative Party that reflects its members’s views and treats them with more respect. Please see more on:

    https://www.conservativedems.co.uk/

    They seem to be antsy about membership not getting to vote for Sunak.

    They did.

    They proceeded to vote for somebody so unfit for office she lasted all of five weeks instead.

    As a result, next time they were told to stay out.

    Admittedly, it does look a bit like one of those EU referendums where they keep asking the question until they get the right answer. I suppose the only difference here was how imposingly Truss imploded.

    Bluntly, the whole saga suggested it was time for a rethink of the CPRB.
    Priti Patel seems to be backing this, looking at the website.
    Another good reason to think it's a bad idea.
    The Conservative Party has the potential for chasing down a Trumpian rabbit hole. MEGA (Make England Great Again). Now there's a thought.
  • Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    It's amazing people get far more worked up about Elon Musk than SBF who - if the accusations are correct - has really damaged a lot of people. I wonder why that is?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Leon said:

    The snow drives thickly aslant the silent, pastel streets of Primrose Hill

    The work of the greatest living writer or AI?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    ydoethur said:

    darkage said:

    ydoethur said:

    M45 said:

    https://twitter.com/DCBMEP/status/1601895861331664896

    David C Bannerman
    @DCBMEP
    Today we have launched CDO - the Conservative Democratic Organisation. We are not a new party but want a true party - a truly democratic Conservative Party that reflects its members’s views and treats them with more respect. Please see more on:

    https://www.conservativedems.co.uk/

    They seem to be antsy about membership not getting to vote for Sunak.

    They did.

    They proceeded to vote for somebody so unfit for office she lasted all of five weeks instead.

    As a result, next time they were told to stay out.

    Admittedly, it does look a bit like one of those EU referendums where they keep asking the question until they get the right answer. I suppose the only difference here was how imposingly Truss imploded.

    Bluntly, the whole saga suggested it was time for a rethink of the CPRB.
    Priti Patel seems to be backing this, looking at the website.
    Another good reason to think it's a bad idea.
    The Conservative Party has the potential for chasing down a Trumpian rabbit hole. MEGA (Make England Great Again). Now there's a thought.
    They can get some dodgy foreign funding too:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mega_International_Commercial_Bank

    I laughed out loud the first time I saw a branch of this bank in person.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    It's amazing people get far more worked up about Elon Musk than SBF who - if the accusations are correct - has really damaged a lot of people. I wonder why that is?
    I dont get worked up about him. He is a public dick head, but so what?
  • ydoethur said:

    darkage said:

    ydoethur said:

    M45 said:

    https://twitter.com/DCBMEP/status/1601895861331664896

    David C Bannerman
    @DCBMEP
    Today we have launched CDO - the Conservative Democratic Organisation. We are not a new party but want a true party - a truly democratic Conservative Party that reflects its members’s views and treats them with more respect. Please see more on:

    https://www.conservativedems.co.uk/

    They seem to be antsy about membership not getting to vote for Sunak.

    They did.

    They proceeded to vote for somebody so unfit for office she lasted all of five weeks instead.

    As a result, next time they were told to stay out.

    Admittedly, it does look a bit like one of those EU referendums where they keep asking the question until they get the right answer. I suppose the only difference here was how imposingly Truss imploded.

    Bluntly, the whole saga suggested it was time for a rethink of the CPRB.
    Priti Patel seems to be backing this, looking at the website.
    Another good reason to think it's a bad idea.
    The Conservative Party has the potential for chasing down a Trumpian rabbit hole. MEGA (Make England Great Again). Now there's a thought.
    SMEG - Start Making England Great before worrying about again.
  • M45M45 Posts: 216
    DJ41 said:

    Omnium said:

    Re header. Tory green credentials aren't so bad overall. Much like their record on equalities.

    I think that peoples expectation is that the left would have done far better in such things, but it's not the case.

    You really could have a far right Green party. (Lead by Cabbage XIII)

    Greenism is far right. Walther von Darré says hello.

    Of all the observations I've made to people over the years, "Greenism is far right" is the one that tops the list for the number of people who've approached me years later, sometimes several years later, sometimes without me remembering who they are, to tell me "You know what you said? Well I thought you were a nutter at the time, but you were absolutely right."
    No, some far right people are green. Your argument is like saying vegetarianism is far right, because Hitler. Are you saying that to be of the left, you have to believe in fucking up the planet?
  • M45M45 Posts: 216

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    It's amazing people get far more worked up about Elon Musk than SBF who - if the accusations are correct - has really damaged a lot of people. I wonder why that is?
    Oh yeah? And I am astonished at your concentration on SBF when look at how evil Fred West was. I speculate on the reasons for this.
  • M45M45 Posts: 216
    The American with George Clooney. Oh dear.
  • Off-duty doctor finally called at 7.13pm and prescribed antibiotics over the phone, so that took almost 29 hours. She won't be able to start the course until the local pharmacy opens in the morning. Nearest 24/7 is in Reading, which is far too far for us to drive.

    Thankfully, she is a bit better today.

    Goodness knows what we'd have done if she'd taken a turn for the worse on Saturday night.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    edited December 2022
    M45 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Omnium said:

    Re header. Tory green credentials aren't so bad overall. Much like their record on equalities.

    I think that peoples expectation is that the left would have done far better in such things, but it's not the case.

    You really could have a far right Green party. (Lead by Cabbage XIII)

    Greenism is far right. Walther von Darré says hello.

    Of all the observations I've made to people over the years, "Greenism is far right" is the one that tops the list for the number of people who've approached me years later, sometimes several years later, sometimes without me remembering who they are, to tell me "You know what you said? Well I thought you were a nutter at the time, but you were absolutely right."
    No, some far right people are green. Your argument is like saying vegetarianism is far right, because Hitler. Are you saying that to be of the left, you have to believe in fucking up the planet?
    It would be fair to say, I think, that Green(ism) has roots for different parts across the political spectrum. There is the aristocratic wildlife preservation thing, for example.

    This also varies strongly from country to country.

    In the U.K., you find that some on the left haven’t come to terms with the long running green policies in Conservative politics. Because only lefties can be Green, in their concept of the universe.

    The reason why so much has been done here is that all the major parties are fully signed up to net zero and it has been deeply embedded in the culture of the structures of permanent government, as a result.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    FUSION ENERGY BREAKTHROUGH: US scientists have made one of the most significant leaps in decades in the search for the Holy Grail of energy - limitless, carbon free power - by achieving net energy gain in a fusion reaction
    https://twitter.com/OilSheppard/status/1602002974871785472

    Probably a long way from anything practical, but net energy gain would be a big deal.
    And would tend also to validate FLF’s design, which might prove a more practical implementation of inertial confinement.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Off-duty doctor finally called at 7.13pm and prescribed antibiotics over the phone, so that took almost 29 hours. She won't be able to start the course until the local pharmacy opens in the morning. Nearest 24/7 is in Reading, which is far too far for us to drive.

    Thankfully, she is a bit better today.

    Goodness knows what we'd have done if she'd taken a turn for the worse on Saturday night.

    Grim. Sympathies
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    The US courts and political system have rejected libel tourism.

    Which really upset some very expensive London lawyers. See Private Eye a few years back.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    edited December 2022
    Leon said:

    The evidence it came from the lab is now overwhelming. Here’s the Co-head of Ecohealth outright saying it. “1000% it came from the lab”

    https://twitter.com/texas_kate/status/1600291467511050241?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg

    Looks increasingly sketchy for Fauci


    “Proximal Orchestrations: Newly released emails cast more doubt than ever on the official story of Covid-19 as a naturally occurring virus. By former longtime NYTimes science writer Nicholas Wade in @CityJournal”

    https://twitter.com/garyruskin/status/1599545098856849408?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg

    That's an opinion, not evidence.

    And that second tweet is incredibly misleading. The most likely scenario is that it is (a) naturally occurring, and (b) it was released due to a lab accident.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270

    The Hitchens brothers are fascinating.

    Both skilled advocates but quite quite barking.

    Peter Hitchens is rather boring, really. Your basic reactionary.

    Christopher was interesting because he took a set of principles and took them for a stroll though the intellectual landscape.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    Cyclefree said:

    This mine is not a million miles from where I live. I drove past the location a few weeks back in fact. It is in the industrial - now increasingly post-industrial - part of Cumbria that most tourists don't know about or visit. Sellafield is just down the road. There are proposals for undersea nuclear storage in the area. There is a tension between those wanting jobs for the area and those who think that the focus should be on green jobs. In fact, there are a lot of wind farms hereabouts - both on and offshore. So it is not either/or.

    The new Labour leader of what will become Cumberland County Council says that he will stop it. Trouble is the council is based in Carlisle and like its predecessor doesn't give a toss about this part of Cumberland. Its waste policies are so appalling that at one point it was responsible for creating a statutory nuisance in a Site of Special Scientific Interest in Haverigg. So I take its "green credentials" with a hefty dose of salt. Most of its staff responsible for services in the area have never even visited the areas they are responsible for.

    I don't know enough about the mine to express a view to be honest. I do know that those who say "no" to everything in areas like this need to come up with some realistic practical proposals for the area which are something more than "come here and buy some ice creams in the summer".

    Much of Green politics is performative - as valuable as Chief Superintendent Savage of the Met intoning “Lessons Will Be Learned” at a press conference after the latest fuck up. Some will feel better. Other will start their stop watches to the next press conference.

    The real questions here are -

    1) Is the coal actually going to be used for coking?
    2) The amount of carbon released vs using coal from another source.
    3) The amount of coal that will be produced before the steel industry stops using cooking coal. Most probably hydrogen based reduction is the replacement - but we will see.
    It should also be used as a replacement for imported American timber in Drax. And we should build new clean coal power stations. Other countries would do this in a heartbeat. We have a profound, almost Orwellian dislike of things that advance the national interest that has all the hallmarks of a disease.
    Coking coal is different to thermal coal. You can't use it at Drax. You can use it at Scunthorpe.

    Funnily enough, Drax wanted to build a clean coal plant - White Rose. A certain George Osborne withdrew the £1 billion funding and killed the project overnight. Now they want to add carbon capture to their forest burners.
    If it is such a great technology, why is it that it hasn’t worked yet, despite billions invested?

    Carbon capture does work. However, since emitters do not have to cover the true cost of the negative externalities they generate, without subsidy it is currently financially advantageous to carry on emitting and just pay for the Emission Trading Scheme permits.

    Ironically, it is the redneck end of the US that has been leading the way, where, firstly,the CO2 can be sold for enhanced oil recovery and, secondly, if you capture you receive tax credits.

    Anyhow, in Q1 2023 our government should announce which carbon capture projects they are minded to support under the Track 1 process, linked to the HyNet and East Coast Clusters. This will include power generation, blue hydrogen and a range of industrial emitters.
    The reason that carbon capture for coal doesn’t get a bung from the government, in the U.K., is that the business case refuses to close - you end up with electricity that is more expensive than many other options. Until someone can come up with a plan that actually makes economic sense, why?
    Since nobody has come forward with a proposal for a coal fired plant with capture in the latest competition, we can't compare the costs with those of a CCGT with capture. There is a tradeoff between Capex and Opex, and over a 20 or 25 year timeline I would not like to say which has the lower £/MWh.
    Ahem: it's not just Capex vs Opex, it's:

    - Capex
    - Maintenance
    - Marginal cost
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    Off-duty doctor finally called at 7.13pm and prescribed antibiotics over the phone, so that took almost 29 hours. She won't be able to start the course until the local pharmacy opens in the morning. Nearest 24/7 is in Reading, which is far too far for us to drive.

    Thankfully, she is a bit better today.

    Goodness knows what we'd have done if she'd taken a turn for the worse on Saturday night.

    Kids ED is the only place to be assessed in person, but is bedlam at the moment. My secretary had 7 hours there one night this week with her granddaughter.

    Hopefully be able to fill the prescription without too much hassle. There do seem to be shortages.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/08/gps-and-pharmacies-struggling-to-obtain-antibiotics-to-treat-strep-a


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    It's amazing people get far more worked up about Elon Musk than SBF who - if the accusations are correct - has really damaged a lot of people. I wonder why that is?
    Probably because they’re not ?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876
    Evening all :)

    First snow in East Ham since the last time. Put paid to any plans to attend Christmas Raceday at Plumpton tomorrow. Even Lingfield has a morning inspection - presumably to check if anyone's going to show up to an unscheduled Monday afternoon in mid December.

    Answer - the needy and the greedy.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,700

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    It's amazing people get far more worked up about Elon Musk than SBF who - if the accusations are correct - has really damaged a lot of people. I wonder why that is?
    only 1% of the public has any idea who SBF is.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    There is an allegation that various people didn’t tell the truth to a congressional committee, under oath.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Tres said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    It's amazing people get far more worked up about Elon Musk than SBF who - if the accusations are correct - has really damaged a lot of people. I wonder why that is?
    only 1% of the public has any idea who SBF is.
    I had never heard of SBF a month ago. I suspect that - once he's gone to jail - I will never hear from him again.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    The evidence it came from the lab is now overwhelming. Here’s the Co-head of Ecohealth outright saying it. “1000% it came from the lab”

    https://twitter.com/texas_kate/status/1600291467511050241?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg

    Looks increasingly sketchy for Fauci


    “Proximal Orchestrations: Newly released emails cast more doubt than ever on the official story of Covid-19 as a naturally occurring virus. By former longtime NYTimes science writer Nicholas Wade in @CityJournal”

    https://twitter.com/garyruskin/status/1599545098856849408?s=46&t=DwBXQsCqGimyrAj-CDDQSg

    That's an opinion, not evidence.

    And that second tweet is incredibly misleading. The most likely scenario is that it is (a) naturally occurring, and (b) it was released due to a lab accident.
    They are just using “naturally occurring” as shorthand for “zoonotic, likely from the market”
  • M45M45 Posts: 216
    Foxy said:

    Off-duty doctor finally called at 7.13pm and prescribed antibiotics over the phone, so that took almost 29 hours. She won't be able to start the course until the local pharmacy opens in the morning. Nearest 24/7 is in Reading, which is far too far for us to drive.

    Thankfully, she is a bit better today.

    Goodness knows what we'd have done if she'd taken a turn for the worse on Saturday night.

    Kids ED is the only place to be assessed in person, but is bedlam at the moment. My secretary had 7 hours there one night this week with her granddaughter.

    Hopefully be able to fill the prescription without too much hassle. There do seem to be shortages.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/08/gps-and-pharmacies-struggling-to-obtain-antibiotics-to-treat-strep-a


    Probably a sign of my age and sex, sorry, gender, that I parse ED as erectile dysfunction.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Lol


    Seems when billionaires have a mid-life crisis they buy social media firms rather than fast cars.
    Being a dickhead is problem enough without broadcasting that dickheadedness so widely.

    He doesn't seem able to resist though.
    What will be really funny is if Anthony Fauci sues him. It wouldn't have to be in the US either. It could be in London.
    What would he sue him for?

    Personally, I find this whole prosecute/lock'em'up thing *really* disturbing.

    Fauci was a civil servant paid to give his opinion. He gave his opinion. If it was wrong, then the consequences should be that he loses his job.

    But he didn't lock a single person down. That responsibility lies with politicians, and politicians alone.

    I think the matter being alluded to here is the Gain Of Function research that was being carried out in Wuhan. Or not - some claim that while it was in the same technical “space” as GOF, that it wasn’t actually GOF.

    Fauci was involved in the funding and planning of the research in question.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
    But what crime has he committed? He may have been stupid or foolish or whatever, but what *crime* has he committed? Or are we just locking people up because people are now cross?
    1. Fauci’s NIH funded GOF research in Wuhan (sidestepping US laws)
    2. This research possibly engineered the actual virus which escaped
    3. Even if it didn’t, a highly similar virus escaped and 20m are dead
    4. Fauci then - and this is now unquestionable - colluded in a cover up to hide his and America’s culpability and to protect China. This delayed proper investigation of the origins of the virus by at least a year. He might have lied to Congress, too

    20 million people are dead. The world is overturned. The idea that someone as central to all this as Fauci can quietly walk away is outrageous

    Give them their day in court. Let’s see
This discussion has been closed.