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The World Cup betting after an action-packed weekend – politicalbetting.com

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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,419
    edited December 2022

    rcs1000 said:

    Interesting that 538 makes England (very narrow) favourites over France.

    Must admit, my personal view is that Brazil are about a 30% chance, France 20%, Spain 15%, and UK and Argentina 10%.

    UK?
    Trolling aside, there might be a 538-led overrating of Brazil, who have yet to score before half-time.
    One thing about Brazil

    Brazil's chances are currently inflated relative to the rest of the likely winners field because they have have to play South Korea followed by either Croatia or Japan in the quarters.

    The remaining quarters are, or are likely

    England - France
    Argentina - Netherlands
    Spain - Portugal.

    So Brazil has the easiest (Doesn't mean they'll get there for sure ! - likeliest opponents Croatia are no mugs) route to the semi finals of the 'big boys'.
  • Asked by
    @MishalHusain if being in the EU single market wd boost UK economic growth, @Keir_Starmer says: “No at this stage I don’t think it would.”

    Some will think "at this stage" is a signal to it being possible in future.
    Others will think it's a signal that ship has sailed


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1599679552061521922

    Later clarified as “ship has sailed”

    He seems intent on winning red wall seats but upsetting the rest with his anti single market stance
    At the next GE, Labour can and will put a better deal with the EU in its manifesto. The Tories can’t and won’t. That is a massive dividing line. Of course, delivery is another matter. But if Labour does win, Starmer will have huge space in which to operate because most people won’t care about the technicalities as long as the Rejoin red line is respected.

    Even this morning after his interview on Sky, the presenter commented that he is not addressing the one issue that would generate growth with his rejection of closer ties with the EU and joining the single market

    He is painting himself into an unnecessary position that must benefit the Lib Dem's at the next GE
    Quite possibly in seats the LDs can win. As most of those are Tory that helps Labour, of course.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,825
    edited December 2022
    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looks like something may have happened at Engels air force base in Russia, home to some of Russia's long-distance bomber fleet.

    https://twitter.com/walter_report/status/1599654381145595904

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engels-2_(air_base)

    What a shame, how unfortunate.
    If they can hit that, and Ryazan, how far out of their range is Moscow? Must be getting a bit close...

    I will actually wet myself laughing if they can hit the Kremlin. That would be genuinely funny.

    Especially if they confine themselves to hitting that and leave the ordinary people of Moscow untouched...
    A coincidence I'm sure but there's a Ukrainian arms manufacturer that has just claimed to have tested a suicide drone with a 1,000 km range.
    Did they call it the Putin?

    Or better still, Putin's Watch?
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. JohnL, indeed, a point well worth making.

    Some may seek a false economy by avoiding having the heating on overnight when it's sub-zero. But this risks the water freezing, and expanding. When the ice thaws, the pipes have burst and the water leaks. This can necessitate a room needing to be fully redecorated or, at the extreme end, cause massive damage to the house itself. The potential savings from not heating are eclipsed by the potential costs.

    This is a perfect example where the media can do a public good by making this clear. It's an absolutely false economy to not have the heating on overnight when it's forecast to be sub-zero.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Brutally cold weather coming

    Danger of burst pipes throughout the land if sub-zero weather meets unheated homes, not to mention more deaths.
    -4C in central London predicted overnight. That’s not unknown but still bloody cold
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    DougSeal said:

    Apparently Southgate has been manager for 40% of England knockout wins at major tournaments.

    Yep:

    1966 - Argentina
    1966 - Portugal
    1966 - West Germany
    1986 - Paraguay
    1990 - Belgium
    1990 - Cameroon
    1996 - Spain
    2002 - Denmark
    2006 - Ecuador
    2018 - Colombia
    2018 - Sweden
    2020 - Germany
    2020 - Ukraine
    2020 - Denmark

    But... it has to be said, that we've had favourable draws at the last two tournaments. Okay, beating the Germans is always an achievement, but they haven't be great in recent years.

    The old adage is that England lose the moment they come up against a decent opponent. Defeating France on Saturday would undoubtedly take Southgate and England to another level.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Guardian article on ChatGPT
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/04/ai-bot-chatgpt-stuns-academics-with-essay-writing-skills-and-usability

    Interesting point about copyright.
    The flip side of which is that AIs can create vast amounts of text, over which copyright could possibly be claimed. Could potentially make it very hard for human writers to work at all.

    Something similar is already happening with musical composition.

    To prove copyright infringement you have to show deliberate copying. It’s a high bar. Can machines have intent?
    Isn’t the issue the other way around, that the AI can churn out a billion words of text for which it can receive the copyright, so that a future human author finds it almost impossible to avoid infringement?
    Again, though, you have to prove intent. A human being cannot be reasonably expected to have knowledge of everything produced by AI.
    Interesting, perhaps I’ll go and read the case law on copyright infringement. Most of what I’ve read has been to do with music, where an artist is often compelled to hand over their entire revenue from a song to the prior artist, and with prior artists such as Marvin Gaye being very litigious over their IP.

    How does an average author react to a lawsuit from a massive tech company, with a billion-dollar legal fund?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109

    He gave up his career to join her team in Downing Street. He is currently unemployed

    Why are you laughing at him getting a job for Christmas?

    I am happy for him.

    I just can't believe it's a real job.

    Is there anybody in the World who cares what Liz Truss thinks or says about anything, ever again?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,825
    edited December 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Brutally cold weather coming

    Danger of burst pipes throughout the land if sub-zero weather meets unheated homes, not to mention more deaths.
    -4C in central London predicted overnight. That’s not unknown but still bloody cold
    Weirdly, we're not predicted sub-zero until Thursday, and even then only -2.

    I'm not sure why. Normally Cannock is much colder than everywhere else because it's on a bloody great south-west facing hillside with nothing in the way, but so far even by the standards of a very mild autumn we've had it milder than just about everyone. Still no frost, which in December is utterly unheard of.
  • ydoethur said:

    Asked by
    @MishalHusain if being in the EU single market wd boost UK economic growth, @Keir_Starmer says: “No at this stage I don’t think it would.”

    Some will think "at this stage" is a signal to it being possible in future.
    Others will think it's a signal that ship has sailed


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1599679552061521922

    Later clarified as “ship has sailed”

    He seems intent on winning red wall seats but upsetting the rest with his anti single market stance
    However 'upset' other seats are, they will almost certainly still vote Labour. They were hardcore enough to vote Labour under Corbyn, they will vote for him.

    Also, who is the alternative? The Liberal Democrats? Possibly the SNP in parts of Scotland but as has been made clear to all but the dimmest Scots they want to leave the British single market and have no very convincing plan for joining the European one.

    It's the ones that have drifted away he needs to get a hearing from.

    I would say it's shrewd politics regardless of the economics.
    There are few-to-no votes in saying to voters "Remember when you voted for Boris and diamond hard Brexit? You really messed up there".

    Persuading people to change their minds on issues and persuading them to vote for you are superficially the same but actually very different. That's one of the reasons that Conservatives are better than Socialists at winning elections. It's also why Labour election winners tend to be despised by their party, I reckon.

    Meanwhile, this is an interesting breakdown of the good thing / bad thing data;

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/will-support-for-brexit-become-extinct/

    TLDR: Those born before about 1960 largely thought Brexit was a good idea and haven't really shifted in their collective views.

    Those born either side of 1970 have swung against, and those born more recently have been strongly against throughout.

    Democratically, that only ends one way. And if you are a Eurosceptic who assumes that future Britain will become as Eurosceptic as you, that's not what the data are showing.

    So we continue to play the dishonest, polite and incredibly English game of "of course we will never send your heirloom to the charity shop".

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,055
    edited December 2022

    Asked by
    @MishalHusain if being in the EU single market wd boost UK economic growth, @Keir_Starmer says: “No at this stage I don’t think it would.”

    Some will think "at this stage" is a signal to it being possible in future.
    Others will think it's a signal that ship has sailed


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1599679552061521922

    Later clarified as “ship has sailed”

    He seems intent on winning red wall seats but upsetting the rest with his anti single market stance
    At the next GE, Labour can and will put a better deal with the EU in its manifesto. The Tories can’t and won’t. That is a massive dividing line. Of course, delivery is another matter. But if Labour does win, Starmer will have huge space in which to operate
    because most people won’t care about the technicalities as long as the
    Rejoin red line is respected.


    Without regaining the Leave redwall seats from the Tories Starmer has no hope of becoming PM and in most of the more Remain bluewall seats
    outside London it is the LDs the main challengers to the Tories not Labour.

    In any case Sunak has shored up Tory support a bit in the bluewall even if he is doing worse than Boris was in the redwall

    Even this morning after his interview on Sky, the presenter commented that he is not addressing the one issue that would generate growth with his rejection of closer ties with the EU and joining the single market

    He is painting himself into an unnecessary position that must benefit the Lib Dem's at the next GE
    Without the Leave redwall seats Starmer has no hope of becoming PM. In those seats Labour are the main challengers to the Tories while in the more Remain bluewall seats the LDs are the Tories main challengers.

    In any case Sunak is doing worse than Boris was in the redwall though he is doing better than Boris was in the bluewall
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I can't decide if this is premium satire or not

    🚨PERSONAL NEWS KLAXON 🚨
    Delighted to share that this week I will be starting a new job as Press Secretary to former Prime Minister @trussliz. Really looking forward to being part of her team.

    https://twitter.com/isaby/status/1599687950618398720

    When she says 'press secretary,' is that a job description or an instruction?
    'He', shirley?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,825

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I can't decide if this is premium satire or not

    🚨PERSONAL NEWS KLAXON 🚨
    Delighted to share that this week I will be starting a new job as Press Secretary to former Prime Minister @trussliz. Really looking forward to being part of her team.

    https://twitter.com/isaby/status/1599687950618398720

    When she says 'press secretary,' is that a job description or an instruction?
    'He', shirley?
    'She' is Liz Truss, unless she's transitioned without my noticing.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited December 2022
    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    Scott_xP said:

    The history of programming is all about automating the mechanist tasks - getting closer and closer to the core that requires thought.

    From The Jargon File

    Jon Bentley, in the “Bumper-Sticker Computer Science” chapter of his book More Programming Pearls, quotes Dick Sites from DEC as saying “I'd rather write programs to write programs than write programs”.
    I'm currently teaching the little 'un trigonometry, and I've written a PHP script that outputs a webpage containing a series of questions about Pythagoras theorem, sohcahtoa and sine/cosine rules using SVG and MathJax.

    I've probably spent about three hours coding it, and it's been fun. Except it probably only takes ten seconds to draw a triangle on a piece of paper and label a couple of sides and angles.

    Not the most efficient use of my time. ;)

    ISTR Douglas Adams wrote something about spending days writing a program to accomplish a task that takes seconds manually. That's my life, that is...
    Why are you teaching trigonometry? Is there not a danger the littl'un will be bored rigid (or into delinquency) when they do it at school, or confused if they use different methods? Might it be better to go wider rather than deeper, and show things not on the curriculum?
    There may be that danger, but he wanted to learn it. And I enjoy teaching it. If he has problems at school, we will sort them out when the time comes. If he's interested in something, I'm not going to sit back and tell him: "We'll let the school teach you that in six years."

    It's surprising quite how many other things he needed to learn to get this far. Everything from solving algebra (*) to rounding to decimal places / significant figures and angles.

    (*) As he likes penguins, we 'developed' a form of algebra called 'Penguingebra'. "Seven penguin + 8 is 106. What is penguin?"
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,162
    edited December 2022

    It's an absolutely false economy to not have the heating on overnight when it's forecast to be sub-zero.

    Assuming you run the heating during the day, your house would have to be really badly insulated to drop below 0 during a single night. I have mine set to a lower temp overnight and it typically only goes from 19C to 15C by morning, so although the heating is technically "on" the boiler never fires up. Anyway, if you have a thermostat with a 'frost protection' setting, use it; otherwise set it to 5-7C rather than turning it off.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. JohnL, indeed, a point well worth making.

    Some may seek a false economy by avoiding having the heating on overnight when it's sub-zero. But this risks the water freezing, and expanding. When the ice thaws, the pipes have burst and the water leaks. This can necessitate a room needing to be fully redecorated or, at the extreme end, cause massive damage to the house itself. The potential savings from not heating are eclipsed by the potential costs.

    This is a perfect example where the media can do a public good by making this clear. It's an absolutely false economy to not have the heating on overnight when it's forecast to be sub-zero.

    I'm probably wrong, but doesn't water need to be at 0 deg C to freeze? A house that isn't heated at night, but is during the day or evening, isn't going to get that low surely? Only exposed pipes (outside ones) etc, or may in the loft, are likely at risk.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,062
    Govt unveils changes to NHS pensions to entice older workers back to the workforce.

    I suspect MaxPBs blood pressure will rise a little over this.

    No change to the lifetime allowance though. GP’s are not happy about that.

    https://twitter.com/josephinecumbo/status/1599660303779713024?s=61&t=DHiCNJbbwov2ScznTW9U2g
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    edited December 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Brutally cold weather coming

    Danger of burst pipes throughout the land if sub-zero weather meets unheated homes, not to mention more deaths.
    -4C in central London predicted overnight. That’s not unknown but still bloody cold
    Weirdly, we're not predicted sub-zero until Thursday, and even then only -2.

    I'm not sure why. Normally Cannock is much colder than everywhere else because it's on a bloody great south-west facing hillside with nothing in the way, but so far even by the standards of a very mild autumn we've had it milder than just about everyone. Still no frost, which in December is utterly unheard of.
    "November frost that can hold a duck, promises a winter of slush and muck"*

    Ergo, as we had no hard November frosts, we're in for a cold winter.

    (*One of my 90 yo, retired farmer, father-in-law's many weather saws - I half suspect he just makes them up.)
  • Mr. 215, Mr. Tubbs, and yet, pipes can and do freeze.

    I agree entirely at sticking the heating on a low level.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    The images I made via Stable Diffusion were so “inane” people freaked out and demanded I remove them and one said “that’s maybe the most horrifying image I’ve ever seen”

    And I was aiming for “horror” in my prompts

    I’m not sure that classifies as “inane”
  • New one to me:

    A year ago, the lexicographic grandees at Oxford Languages dutifully stuck out their arms and chose “vax” as the 2021 Word of the Year.

    But this year, the venerable publisher behind the Oxford English Dictionary has — like the rest of us, apparently — gone full goblin mode.

    “Goblin mode” — a slang term referring to “a type of behavior which is unapologetically self-indulgent, lazy, slovenly, or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms or expectations” — has been named Oxford’s 2022 Word of the Year.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/arts/goblin-mode-oxford-word.html
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,129
    Leon said:

    Brutally cold weather coming

    "Cold weather in Winter shock horror"... headline should be more "UK cocks up winter again".
    Apropos of nothing and FWIW Helsinki airport has never closed for weather, no matter what the conditions.
    Proper Preparation Prevents Piss-Poor Performance.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Taz said:

    Govt unveils changes to NHS pensions to entice older workers back to the workforce.

    I suspect MaxPBs blood pressure will rise a little over this.

    No change to the lifetime allowance though. GP’s are not happy about that.

    https://twitter.com/josephinecumbo/status/1599660303779713024?s=61&t=DHiCNJbbwov2ScznTW9U2g

    The anarchist in me, quite likes that the government’s attempt to stop people avoiding some hellish income tax rates by contributing to a pension, has come unstuck with a high-profile group of public-sector workers.

    Little sympathy for GPs though, after their behaviour during the pandemic.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Brutally cold weather coming

    Danger of burst pipes throughout the land if sub-zero weather meets unheated homes, not to mention more deaths.
    -4C in central London predicted overnight. That’s not unknown but still bloody cold
    Weirdly, we're not predicted sub-zero until Thursday, and even then only -2.

    I'm not sure why. Normally Cannock is much colder than everywhere else because it's on a bloody great south-west facing hillside with nothing in the way, but so far even by the standards of a very mild autumn we've had it milder than just about everyone. Still no frost, which in December is utterly unheard of.
    "November frost that can hold a duck, promises a winter of slush and muck"*

    Ergo, as we had no hard November frosts, we're in for a cold winter.

    (*One of my 90 yo, retired farmer, father-in-law's many weather saws - I half suspect he just makes them up.)
    That ones well known, but is demonstrably false, as Nov 2010 and the following winter showed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    ydoethur said:

    Asked by
    @MishalHusain if being in the EU single market wd boost UK economic growth, @Keir_Starmer says: “No at this stage I don’t think it would.”

    Some will think "at this stage" is a signal to it being possible in future.
    Others will think it's a signal that ship has sailed


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1599679552061521922

    Later clarified as “ship has sailed”

    He seems intent on winning red wall seats but upsetting the rest with his anti single market stance
    However 'upset' other seats are, they will almost certainly still vote Labour. They were hardcore enough to vote Labour under Corbyn, they will vote for him.

    Also, who is the alternative? The Liberal Democrats? Possibly the SNP in parts of Scotland but as has been made clear to all but the dimmest Scots they want to leave the British single market and have no very convincing plan for joining the European one.

    It's the ones that have drifted away he needs to get a hearing from.

    I would say it's shrewd politics regardless of the economics.
    There are few-to-no votes in saying to voters "Remember when you voted for Boris and diamond hard Brexit? You really messed up there".

    Persuading people to change their minds on issues and persuading them to vote for you are superficially the same but actually very different. That's one of the reasons that Conservatives are better than Socialists at winning elections. It's also why Labour election winners tend to be despised by their party, I reckon.

    Meanwhile, this is an interesting breakdown of the good thing / bad thing data;

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/will-support-for-brexit-become-extinct/

    TLDR: Those born before about 1960 largely thought Brexit was a good idea and haven't really shifted in their collective views.

    Those born either side of 1970 have swung against, and those born more recently have been strongly against throughout.

    Democratically, that only ends one way. And if you are a Eurosceptic who assumes that future Britain will become as Eurosceptic as you, that's not what the data are showing.

    So we continue to play the dishonest, polite and incredibly English game of "of course we will never send your heirloom to the charity shop".

    FWIW for the first time I now think there is a good chance we will Rejoin in the next 10 years

    Not probable but definitely possible

    It would be a grievous error but I can’t honestly ignore the relentless polls, they are becoming overwhelming
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,787

    Asked by
    @MishalHusain if being in the EU single market wd boost UK economic growth, @Keir_Starmer says: “No at this stage I don’t think it would.”

    Some will think "at this stage" is a signal to it being possible in future.
    Others will think it's a signal that ship has sailed


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1599679552061521922

    Later clarified as “ship has sailed”

    He seems intent on winning red wall seats but upsetting the rest with his anti single market stance
    If I’m a cynic I’d say this is pre/agreed

    - he goes for the red wall
    - Lib Dem’s much more pro-European and target the blue wall
    - Coalition
    - Labour “reluctantly” accepts Lib Dem position on Europe
    He is very wisely not going to give the tories a chink of daylight on Brexit before the election. They would love to run a 'Save Brexit' campaign but aren't going to get the chance.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,259

    New one to me:

    A year ago, the lexicographic grandees at Oxford Languages dutifully stuck out their arms and chose “vax” as the 2021 Word of the Year.

    But this year, the venerable publisher behind the Oxford English Dictionary has — like the rest of us, apparently — gone full goblin mode.

    “Goblin mode” — a slang term referring to “a type of behavior which is unapologetically self-indulgent, lazy, slovenly, or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms or expectations” — has been named Oxford’s 2022 Word of the Year.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/arts/goblin-mode-oxford-word.html

    Never heard it before. Not even on PB, where I have been introduced to a variety of new words and terminology.

    A word of the year that nobody uses.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Brutally cold weather coming

    "Cold weather in Winter shock horror"... headline should be more "UK cocks up winter again".
    Apropos of nothing and FWIW Helsinki airport has never closed for weather, no matter what the conditions.
    Proper Preparation Prevents Piss-Poor Performance.
    Uncalled for. In countries where snow happens every winter, there will naturally be a better resilience to er, snow.
    In the UK, notably in the south, you can go years without snow. Why have lots of expensive equipment and resource on the off chance? Its not simple.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,825

    Scott_xP said:

    The history of programming is all about automating the mechanist tasks - getting closer and closer to the core that requires thought.

    From The Jargon File

    Jon Bentley, in the “Bumper-Sticker Computer Science” chapter of his book More Programming Pearls, quotes Dick Sites from DEC as saying “I'd rather write programs to write programs than write programs”.
    I'm currently teaching the little 'un trigonometry, and I've written a PHP script that outputs a webpage containing a series of questions about Pythagoras theorem, sohcahtoa and sine/cosine rules using SVG and MathJax.

    I've probably spent about three hours coding it, and it's been fun. Except it probably only takes ten seconds to draw a triangle on a piece of paper and label a couple of sides and angles.

    Not the most efficient use of my time. ;)

    ISTR Douglas Adams wrote something about spending days writing a program to accomplish a task that takes seconds manually. That's my life, that is...
    Why are you teaching trigonometry? Is there not a danger the littl'un will be bored rigid (or into delinquency) when they do it at school, or confused if they use different methods? Might it be better to go wider rather than deeper, and show things not on the curriculum?
    There may be that danger, but he wanted to learn it. And I enjoy teaching it. If he has problems at school, we will sort them out when the time comes. If he's interested in something, I'm not going to sit back and tell him: "We'll let the school teach you that in six years."

    It's surprising quite how many other things he needed to learn to get this far. Everything from solving algebra (*) to rounding to decimal places / significant figures and angles.

    (*) As he likes penguins, we 'developed' a form of algebra called 'Penguingebra'. "Seven penguin + 8 is 106. What is penguin?"
    That's the sort of problem that is better save for teen years...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited December 2022
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    The images I made via Stable Diffusion were so “inane” people freaked out and demanded I remove them and one said “that’s maybe the most horrifying image I’ve ever seen”

    And I was aiming for “horror” in my prompts

    I’m not sure that classifies as “inane”
    Artistically it was inane. imo.

    If you call it art, then art it was.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    Leon said:

    FWIW for the first time I now think there is a good chance we will Rejoin in the next 10 years

    It would right a grievous error
  • TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    A massive part of art appreciation, from some random guy liking a piece in a small gallery to the massively inflated art market (which very much includes American action painters), is an individual fancying that they are making a connection with the individual who made a painting etc. I can’t see AI ever synthesising that so it will forever remain a cull-de-sac.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Brutally cold weather coming

    "Cold weather in Winter shock horror"... headline should be more "UK cocks up winter again".
    Apropos of nothing and FWIW Helsinki airport has never closed for weather, no matter what the conditions.
    Proper Preparation Prevents Piss-Poor Performance.
    Heathrow did eventually spend the money on snowploughs, after they had to shut for two days a few years ago. Until then, they’d figured that the disruption when it snowed wasn’t worth the effort to buy the equipment.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,825

    New one to me:

    A year ago, the lexicographic grandees at Oxford Languages dutifully stuck out their arms and chose “vax” as the 2021 Word of the Year.

    But this year, the venerable publisher behind the Oxford English Dictionary has — like the rest of us, apparently — gone full goblin mode.

    “Goblin mode” — a slang term referring to “a type of behavior which is unapologetically self-indulgent, lazy, slovenly, or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms or expectations” — has been named Oxford’s 2022 Word of the Year.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/arts/goblin-mode-oxford-word.html

    So they've been having run ins with civil servants at the DfE too, have they?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    FWIW for the first time I now think there is a good chance we will Rejoin in the next 10 years

    It would right a grievous error
    The error was not leaving the political institutions. The error is the current set up. Sort trade, and dare I say it move towards better opportunities to work for both the EU and Brits in each others areas and the country will be happy. Not everyone voted leave because they were racist.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited December 2022

    New one to me:

    A year ago, the lexicographic grandees at Oxford Languages dutifully stuck out their arms and chose “vax” as the 2021 Word of the Year.

    But this year, the venerable publisher behind the Oxford English Dictionary has — like the rest of us, apparently — gone full goblin mode.

    “Goblin mode” — a slang term referring to “a type of behavior which is unapologetically self-indulgent, lazy, slovenly, or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms or expectations” — has been named Oxford’s 2022 Word of the Year.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/arts/goblin-mode-oxford-word.html

    Never heard it before. Not even on PB, where I have been introduced to a variety of new words and terminology.

    A word of the year that nobody uses.
    Like the old blokes on PB using parlance of the youth, trying to prove they're hip to the groove.

    It's slay.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,954

    Asked by
    @MishalHusain if being in the EU single market wd boost UK economic growth, @Keir_Starmer says: “No at this stage I don’t think it would.”

    Some will think "at this stage" is a signal to it being possible in future.
    Others will think it's a signal that ship has sailed


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1599679552061521922

    Later clarified as “ship has sailed”

    He seems intent on winning red wall seats but upsetting the rest with his anti single market stance
    The problem is hysteresis.

    It's possible that the damage has been done, and rejoining would not undo that damage.

    If that is the case then we have to find a new way forward and Starmer would be right to avoid relitigating the arguments of the past. As always, the political challenge is to convince the voters.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Brutally cold weather coming

    "Cold weather in Winter shock horror"... headline should be more "UK cocks up winter again".
    Apropos of nothing and FWIW Helsinki airport has never closed for weather, no matter what the conditions.
    Proper Preparation Prevents Piss-Poor Performance.
    Heathrow did eventually spend the money on snowploughs, after they had to shut for two days a few years ago. Until then, they’d figured that the disruption when it snowed wasn’t worth the effort to buy the equipment.
    How many snow ploughs are there in the sand pit?
    How many in Helsinki?
    Heathrow is somewhere in the middle in terms of needs.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,466
    edited December 2022
    Taz said:

    Govt unveils changes to NHS pensions to entice older workers back to the workforce.

    I suspect MaxPBs blood pressure will rise a little over this.

    No change to the lifetime allowance though. GP’s are not happy about that.

    https://twitter.com/josephinecumbo/status/1599660303779713024?s=61&t=DHiCNJbbwov2ScznTW9U2g

    I thought part of the problem was that doctors had to continue making pension contributions even past the point it added to their pension. Maybe I got that wrong.

    What should be done for all workers is fixing the problem where taking any pension money at all means that tax relief on future pension contributions are limited to the first £4,000 (or something like that). I understand this is to stop people constantly recycling their pensions and getting a tax uplift on each cycle but there ought to be a better way to stop people taking the piss; the current rules are surely a disincentive to oldies contemplating a return to employment, which is what the government claims to favour.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,825
    Target under 100 and seamers look exhausted.

    I'm just wondering whether they will fully recover in time for the second Test.

    Shame Robinson didn't get a boot on that one.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    The images I made via Stable Diffusion were so “inane” people freaked out and demanded I remove them and one said “that’s maybe the most horrifying image I’ve ever seen”

    And I was aiming for “horror” in my prompts

    I’m not sure that classifies as “inane”
    Artistically it was inane. imo.

    If you call it art, then art it was.
    Feel free to make something better on DALLE-2

    My intent was to make something so horrifying people would flinch. I succeeded way beyond that (or, Stable Diffusion succeeded)

    Is it “art”? There I agree the debate is unresolved
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Brutally cold weather coming

    "Cold weather in Winter shock horror"... headline should be more "UK cocks up winter again".
    Apropos of nothing and FWIW Helsinki airport has never closed for weather, no matter what the conditions.
    Proper Preparation Prevents Piss-Poor Performance.
    Heathrow did eventually spend the money on snowploughs, after they had to shut for two days a few years ago. Until then, they’d figured that the disruption when it snowed wasn’t worth the effort to buy the equipment.
    How many snow ploughs are there in the sand pit?
    How many in Helsinki?
    Heathrow is somewhere in the middle in terms of needs.
    None
    Lots
    Indeed so. As Heathrow got busier over time, they eventually realised that the cost of snowploughs was less than the cost of disruption due to snow. Standard economics of supply and demand.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The history of programming is all about automating the mechanist tasks - getting closer and closer to the core that requires thought.

    From The Jargon File

    Jon Bentley, in the “Bumper-Sticker Computer Science” chapter of his book More Programming Pearls, quotes Dick Sites from DEC as saying “I'd rather write programs to write programs than write programs”.
    I'm currently teaching the little 'un trigonometry, and I've written a PHP script that outputs a webpage containing a series of questions about Pythagoras theorem, sohcahtoa and sine/cosine rules using SVG and MathJax.

    I've probably spent about three hours coding it, and it's been fun. Except it probably only takes ten seconds to draw a triangle on a piece of paper and label a couple of sides and angles.

    Not the most efficient use of my time. ;)

    ISTR Douglas Adams wrote something about spending days writing a program to accomplish a task that takes seconds manually. That's my life, that is...
    Why are you teaching trigonometry? Is there not a danger the littl'un will be bored rigid (or into delinquency) when they do it at school, or confused if they use different methods? Might it be better to go wider rather than deeper, and show things not on the curriculum?
    There may be that danger, but he wanted to learn it. And I enjoy teaching it. If he has problems at school, we will sort them out when the time comes. If he's interested in something, I'm not going to sit back and tell him: "We'll let the school teach you that in six years."

    It's surprising quite how many other things he needed to learn to get this far. Everything from solving algebra (*) to rounding to decimal places / significant figures and angles.

    (*) As he likes penguins, we 'developed' a form of algebra called 'Penguingebra'. "Seven penguin + 8 is 106. What is penguin?"
    That's the sort of problem that is better save for teen years...
    Why, as a matter of interest?
  • New one to me:

    A year ago, the lexicographic grandees at Oxford Languages dutifully stuck out their arms and chose “vax” as the 2021 Word of the Year.

    But this year, the venerable publisher behind the Oxford English Dictionary has — like the rest of us, apparently — gone full goblin mode.

    “Goblin mode” — a slang term referring to “a type of behavior which is unapologetically self-indulgent, lazy, slovenly, or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms or expectations” — has been named Oxford’s 2022 Word of the Year.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/arts/goblin-mode-oxford-word.html

    Never heard of it but according to its Wikipedia page (!) Elon Musk has used it. It looks to me like Oxford's lexicographers spend too much time perusing American social media.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,825

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The history of programming is all about automating the mechanist tasks - getting closer and closer to the core that requires thought.

    From The Jargon File

    Jon Bentley, in the “Bumper-Sticker Computer Science” chapter of his book More Programming Pearls, quotes Dick Sites from DEC as saying “I'd rather write programs to write programs than write programs”.
    I'm currently teaching the little 'un trigonometry, and I've written a PHP script that outputs a webpage containing a series of questions about Pythagoras theorem, sohcahtoa and sine/cosine rules using SVG and MathJax.

    I've probably spent about three hours coding it, and it's been fun. Except it probably only takes ten seconds to draw a triangle on a piece of paper and label a couple of sides and angles.

    Not the most efficient use of my time. ;)

    ISTR Douglas Adams wrote something about spending days writing a program to accomplish a task that takes seconds manually. That's my life, that is...
    Why are you teaching trigonometry? Is there not a danger the littl'un will be bored rigid (or into delinquency) when they do it at school, or confused if they use different methods? Might it be better to go wider rather than deeper, and show things not on the curriculum?
    There may be that danger, but he wanted to learn it. And I enjoy teaching it. If he has problems at school, we will sort them out when the time comes. If he's interested in something, I'm not going to sit back and tell him: "We'll let the school teach you that in six years."

    It's surprising quite how many other things he needed to learn to get this far. Everything from solving algebra (*) to rounding to decimal places / significant figures and angles.

    (*) As he likes penguins, we 'developed' a form of algebra called 'Penguingebra'. "Seven penguin + 8 is 106. What is penguin?"
    That's the sort of problem that is better save for teen years...
    Why, as a matter of interest?
    Try again, with different spelling:

    That's the sort of problem that is better save fourteen years.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049

    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    A massive part of art appreciation, from some random guy liking a piece in a small gallery to the massively inflated art market (which very much includes American action painters), is an individual fancying that they are making a connection with the individual who made a painting etc. I can’t see AI ever synthesising that so it will forever remain a cull-de-sac.
    I am tempted to agree but Pollock et al were trying to take themselves out of the process which of course they couldn't. When someone says "I like that Pollock" they were actually saying I like the idea behind what I am seeing in front of me. Of course those ideas end up in art galleries (and have done, if you are being picky, since Cezanne or Courbet). So it is all "art" (anything an artist says is art is art, even if that artist is Leon).

    Will it engage the general public? Not sure. Look at the Rothko room, or how people literally laugh out loud at a Beckett play for examples of how people consume their art.

    Then again the general public are by and large morons when it comes to art so I'm not so sure we should be that interested.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,825

    New one to me:

    A year ago, the lexicographic grandees at Oxford Languages dutifully stuck out their arms and chose “vax” as the 2021 Word of the Year.

    But this year, the venerable publisher behind the Oxford English Dictionary has — like the rest of us, apparently — gone full goblin mode.

    “Goblin mode” — a slang term referring to “a type of behavior which is unapologetically self-indulgent, lazy, slovenly, or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms or expectations” — has been named Oxford’s 2022 Word of the Year.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/arts/goblin-mode-oxford-word.html

    Never heard of it but according to its Wikipedia page (!) Elon Musk has used it. It looks to me like Oxford's lexicographers spend too much time perusing American social media.
    Elon Musk had that much self-awareness?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,954
    ydoethur said:

    Anderson 2-22 off 16 overs. At the age of 40. On an absolute road of a pitch. In sweltering heat.

    What an athlete he is.

    I'm not sure whether to grieve at how much Troy Cooley buggered him up early in his career so it took him years to recover, or be delighted that because he barely played until his mid-twenties he's stayed injury-free and we've enjoyed his mastery into his 40s.

    To think people wondered whether he should have retired four years ago at the same time as Alastair Cook.

    Since then 106 wickets @ 23.0
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    New one to me:

    A year ago, the lexicographic grandees at Oxford Languages dutifully stuck out their arms and chose “vax” as the 2021 Word of the Year.

    But this year, the venerable publisher behind the Oxford English Dictionary has — like the rest of us, apparently — gone full goblin mode.

    “Goblin mode” — a slang term referring to “a type of behavior which is unapologetically self-indulgent, lazy, slovenly, or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms or expectations” — has been named Oxford’s 2022 Word of the Year.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/arts/goblin-mode-oxford-word.html

    Never heard of it but according to its Wikipedia page (!) Elon Musk has used it. It looks to me like Oxford's lexicographers spend too much time perusing American social media.
    The Americans went with “Gaslighting” as their word of the year.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/word-of-the-year/gaslighting

    “The act or practice of grossly misleading someone, especially for a personal advantage.”
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,825
    The only way England will get a wicket here is if one of the batsmen treads on his own stumps.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    The images I made via Stable Diffusion were so “inane” people freaked out and demanded I remove them and one said “that’s maybe the most horrifying image I’ve ever seen”

    And I was aiming for “horror” in my prompts

    I’m not sure that classifies as “inane”
    Artistically it was inane. imo.

    If you call it art, then art it was.
    Feel free to make something better on DALLE-2

    My intent was to make something so horrifying people would flinch. I succeeded way beyond that (or, Stable Diffusion succeeded)

    Is it “art”? There I agree the debate is unresolved
    You absolutely succeeded in making an unnerving image. The question, art aside, is then what. What does this uniquely give us (it gave you the means to create such an image) that is so valuable.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,787

    New one to me:

    A year ago, the lexicographic grandees at Oxford Languages dutifully stuck out their arms and chose “vax” as the 2021 Word of the Year.

    But this year, the venerable publisher behind the Oxford English Dictionary has — like the rest of us, apparently — gone full goblin mode.

    “Goblin mode” — a slang term referring to “a type of behavior which is unapologetically self-indulgent, lazy, slovenly, or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms or expectations” — has been named Oxford’s 2022 Word of the Year.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/arts/goblin-mode-oxford-word.html

    Never heard it before. Not even on PB, where I have been introduced to a variety of new words and terminology.

    A word of the year that nobody uses.
    It was a meme earlier this year that became briefly popular when Julia Fox broke up with Ye. My students used it for about a month in the spring.

    We need some young blood on here coz most of you are have a cultural frame of reference that ends with Janet Ellis leaving Blue Peter and think Shirley Bassey is better than Megan Thee Stallion.
  • Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Asked by
    @MishalHusain if being in the EU single market wd boost UK economic growth, @Keir_Starmer says: “No at this stage I don’t think it would.”

    Some will think "at this stage" is a signal to it being possible in future.
    Others will think it's a signal that ship has sailed


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1599679552061521922

    Later clarified as “ship has sailed”

    He seems intent on winning red wall seats but upsetting the rest with his anti single market stance
    However 'upset' other seats are, they will almost certainly still vote Labour. They were hardcore enough to vote Labour under Corbyn, they will vote for him.

    Also, who is the alternative? The Liberal Democrats? Possibly the SNP in parts of Scotland but as has been made clear to all but the dimmest Scots they want to leave the British single market and have no very convincing plan for joining the European one.

    It's the ones that have drifted away he needs to get a hearing from.

    I would say it's shrewd politics regardless of the economics.
    There are few-to-no votes in saying to voters "Remember when you voted for Boris and diamond hard Brexit? You really messed up there".

    Persuading people to change their minds on issues and persuading them to vote for you are superficially the same but actually very different. That's one of the reasons that Conservatives are better than Socialists at winning elections. It's also why Labour election winners tend to be despised by their party, I reckon.

    Meanwhile, this is an interesting breakdown of the good thing / bad thing data;

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/will-support-for-brexit-become-extinct/

    TLDR: Those born before about 1960 largely thought Brexit was a good idea and haven't really shifted in their collective views.

    Those born either side of 1970 have swung against, and those born more recently have been strongly against throughout.

    Democratically, that only ends one way. And if you are a Eurosceptic who assumes that future Britain will become as Eurosceptic as you, that's not what the data are showing.

    So we continue to play the dishonest, polite and incredibly English game of "of course we will never send your heirloom to the charity shop".

    FWIW for the first time I now think there is a good chance we will Rejoin in the next 10 years

    Not probable but definitely possible

    It would be a grievous error but I can’t honestly ignore the relentless polls, they are becoming overwhelming
    Ten years might be pushing it from a politeness point of view. And a Brejoining UK will need to be able to say with a straight face "all that unpleasantness was nothing to do with us."

    What I can see in a decade or so is the UK being into an EU orbit where Brejoin remains possible. Conservative government until 2029 would have made
    that much harder.

    In that context, Starmer's got a small but important job to do- move the UK from one trajectory to another. A bit like giving an asteroid a tiny push that doesn't look like much, but stops it colliding with the Earth.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The history of programming is all about automating the mechanist tasks - getting closer and closer to the core that requires thought.

    From The Jargon File

    Jon Bentley, in the “Bumper-Sticker Computer Science” chapter of his book More Programming Pearls, quotes Dick Sites from DEC as saying “I'd rather write programs to write programs than write programs”.
    I'm currently teaching the little 'un trigonometry, and I've written a PHP script that outputs a webpage containing a series of questions about Pythagoras theorem, sohcahtoa and sine/cosine rules using SVG and MathJax.

    I've probably spent about three hours coding it, and it's been fun. Except it probably only takes ten seconds to draw a triangle on a piece of paper and label a couple of sides and angles.

    Not the most efficient use of my time. ;)

    ISTR Douglas Adams wrote something about spending days writing a program to accomplish a task that takes seconds manually. That's my life, that is...
    Why are you teaching trigonometry? Is there not a danger the littl'un will be bored rigid (or into delinquency) when they do it at school, or confused if they use different methods? Might it be better to go wider rather than deeper, and show things not on the curriculum?
    There may be that danger, but he wanted to learn it. And I enjoy teaching it. If he has problems at school, we will sort them out when the time comes. If he's interested in something, I'm not going to sit back and tell him: "We'll let the school teach you that in six years."

    It's surprising quite how many other things he needed to learn to get this far. Everything from solving algebra (*) to rounding to decimal places / significant figures and angles.

    (*) As he likes penguins, we 'developed' a form of algebra called 'Penguingebra'. "Seven penguin + 8 is 106. What is penguin?"
    That's the sort of problem that is better save for teen years...
    Why, as a matter of interest?
    Try again, with different spelling:

    That's the sort of problem that is better save fourteen years.
    Ah, badum-tish. ;)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    The images I made via Stable Diffusion were so “inane” people freaked out and demanded I remove them and one said “that’s maybe the most horrifying image I’ve ever seen”

    And I was aiming for “horror” in my prompts

    I’m not sure that classifies as “inane”
    Artistically it was inane. imo.

    If you call it art, then art it was.
    Feel free to make something better on DALLE-2

    My intent was to make something so horrifying people would flinch. I succeeded way beyond that (or, Stable Diffusion succeeded)

    Is it “art”? There I agree the debate is unresolved
    You absolutely succeeded in making an unnerving image. The question, art aside, is then what. What does this uniquely give us (it gave you the means to create such an image) that is so valuable.
    Well, Stable Diffusion - and others - are progressing to moving images. Crafted entirely by words

    Inter alia, this gives the good promptcrafter the chance to make the scariest movies in history

    No small thing. Lucrative, indeed
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,825
    My TV set's just gone wrong. It's showing a spinner bowling.
  • Sandpit said:

    New one to me:

    A year ago, the lexicographic grandees at Oxford Languages dutifully stuck out their arms and chose “vax” as the 2021 Word of the Year.

    But this year, the venerable publisher behind the Oxford English Dictionary has — like the rest of us, apparently — gone full goblin mode.

    “Goblin mode” — a slang term referring to “a type of behavior which is unapologetically self-indulgent, lazy, slovenly, or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms or expectations” — has been named Oxford’s 2022 Word of the Year.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/arts/goblin-mode-oxford-word.html

    Never heard of it but according to its Wikipedia page (!) Elon Musk has used it. It looks to me like Oxford's lexicographers spend too much time perusing American social media.
    The Americans went with “Gaslighting” as their word of the year.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/word-of-the-year/gaslighting

    “The act or practice of grossly misleading someone, especially for a personal advantage.”
    Either I've been using it wrongly or that is not what gaslighting means. Which reminds me of Dara Ó Briain on 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown, telling Susie that Oxford had got "feck" wrong.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,954

    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    A massive part of art appreciation, from some random guy liking a piece in a small gallery to the massively inflated art market (which very much includes American action painters), is an individual fancying that they are making a connection with the individual who made a painting etc. I can’t see AI ever synthesising that so it will forever remain a cull-de-sac.
    It will be a bit like doping at the Olympics. There will be occasional scandals when artists are found to have used AI-assistance, and the rest of the time people will hope, rather than believe, that other artists are AI-free.

    To some extent we're halfway there already when you have authors like James Patterson with assistants who write his books, and artists have always had assistants helping with painting, etc.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,341

    The head of the police watchdog who resigned after a historical allegation is accused of having an inappropriate relationship with a child aged 14 or 15.

    The claim against Michael Lockwood, 63, director-general of the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), is understood to be sexual in nature, regarding alleged behaviour when he was in his 20s and living in Humberside.

    A police source said that he had been under investigation for months but the IOPC, whose job it is to examine police misconduct, was informed only last week. It is understood a file has been sent to the Crown Prosecution Service, which will now make a decision on whether to charge him.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-watchdog-chief-had-relations-with-teenager-25lrg68w0

    When I am in charge I am going to ban the use of the word "inappropriate" when what is meant is "wrong".

    Also saying that someone has been convicted of "having sex with an under-age child" when what is meant is that they raped an under-age child. And so on. There are times for polite euphemisms but adults abusing children is not one of them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,825
    Life's too short for silly adverts about toothpaste. Time to visit the bank to crack on with probate.

    See you later.
  • Asked by
    @MishalHusain if being in the EU single market wd boost UK economic growth, @Keir_Starmer says: “No at this stage I don’t think it would.”

    Some will think "at this stage" is a signal to it being possible in future.
    Others will think it's a signal that ship has sailed


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1599679552061521922

    Later clarified as “ship has sailed”

    He seems intent on winning red wall seats but upsetting the rest with his anti single market stance
    The problem is hysteresis.

    It's possible that the damage has been done, and rejoining would not undo that damage.

    If that is the case then we have to find a new way forward and Starmer would be right to avoid relitigating the arguments of the past. As always, the political challenge is to convince the voters.
    Yes, we don't know what being members of the Single Market would be like whilst also being excluded from the big club that makes all the crucial decisions - probably not as bad as now but other problems, hitherto unforeseen, might emerge. It's a bit of a quagmire I'm afraid, and all for enhancing the career prospects of Boris Johnson.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    The images I made via Stable Diffusion were so “inane” people freaked out and demanded I remove them and one said “that’s maybe the most horrifying image I’ve ever seen”

    And I was aiming for “horror” in my prompts

    I’m not sure that classifies as “inane”
    Artistically it was inane. imo.

    If you call it art, then art it was.
    Feel free to make something better on DALLE-2

    My intent was to make something so horrifying people would flinch. I succeeded way beyond that (or, Stable Diffusion succeeded)

    Is it “art”? There I agree the debate is unresolved
    You absolutely succeeded in making an unnerving image. The question, art aside, is then what. What does this uniquely give us (it gave you the means to create such an image) that is so valuable.
    Well, Stable Diffusion - and others - are progressing to moving images. Crafted entirely by words

    Inter alia, this gives the good promptcrafter the chance to make the scariest movies in history

    No small thing. Lucrative, indeed
    Yes. That and porn I suppose.

    But won't "normal" technology allow pretty realistic creations in those genres.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    Dura_Ace said:

    New one to me:

    A year ago, the lexicographic grandees at Oxford Languages dutifully stuck out their arms and chose “vax” as the 2021 Word of the Year.

    But this year, the venerable publisher behind the Oxford English Dictionary has — like the rest of us, apparently — gone full goblin mode.

    “Goblin mode” — a slang term referring to “a type of behavior which is unapologetically self-indulgent, lazy, slovenly, or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms or expectations” — has been named Oxford’s 2022 Word of the Year.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/arts/goblin-mode-oxford-word.html

    Never heard it before. Not even on PB, where I have been introduced to a variety of new words and terminology.

    A word of the year that nobody uses.
    It was a meme earlier this year that became briefly popular when Julia Fox broke up with Ye. My students used it for about a month in the spring.

    We need some young blood on here coz most of you are have a cultural frame of reference that ends with Janet Ellis leaving Blue Peter and think Shirley Bassey is better than Megan Thee Stallion.
    "most of you"

    So you're not an old white bloke arguing the toss, eh?

    My nieces and nephews provide me all the current street lingo that I need I'll have you know.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,067

    New one to me:

    A year ago, the lexicographic grandees at Oxford Languages dutifully stuck out their arms and chose “vax” as the 2021 Word of the Year.

    But this year, the venerable publisher behind the Oxford English Dictionary has — like the rest of us, apparently — gone full goblin mode.

    “Goblin mode” — a slang term referring to “a type of behavior which is unapologetically self-indulgent, lazy, slovenly, or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms or expectations” — has been named Oxford’s 2022 Word of the Year.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/arts/goblin-mode-oxford-word.html

    I am shocked and disappointed that no PB pedant has yet pointed out that “Goblin mode” is in fact two words. 🥺
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,039
    DougSeal said:

    Apparently Southgate has been manager for 40% of England knockout wins at major tournaments.

    Depends how you view the early Euros.
    Given that there was a knockout match to qualify for the semi-finals in Euro 68, I'd count that as a knockout in a major tournament (although technically it wasn't), which makes Southgate 6 out of England's 16.

    Second would be Sir Alf with 4 (although only 3 if you didn't count that quarter-final win in Euro 68), third would be Bobby Robson with 3 (joint second with Sir Alf if we follow the letter of the law on Euro 68), and fourth would be Sven Goran-Eriksson with 2. With El Tel picking up the spare.

    Hodgson, Capello, McClaren, Keegan, Hoddle, Taylor, Greenwood, Revie, and Winterbottom all sharing the wooden spoon on 0.

    Looking at World Cups alone, we have a three way tie on 3 k/o wins between Sir Alf, Bobby Robson, and Southgate (Eriksson taking the only oter WC k/o wins with 2).
    Sir Alf wins on actually winning the thing.
    Southgate and Sir Alf are level on total games one (7 each, with Bobby Robson on 5 games won, level with Eriksson)
    Southgate is out ahead on goals scored, with 24 so far. Walter Winterbottom on 16 (over 4 World Cups). Sir Alf on 15, Bobby Robson on 14, Eriksson on 12.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,341
    edited December 2022

    Whodathunkit?

    Five human rights organisations that wrote to a UN expert defending the gender recognition reform bill have received Scottish government funding, it has emerged.

    The charities published a letter to Reem Alsalem, the UN special rapporteur for violence against women and girls, last Wednesday supporting the SNP reforms which, if passed, would allow transgender people to self-identify in order to obtain a gender recognition certificate.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/backers-of-gender-reform-bill-given-scottish-government-funding-xmwxpmdb8


    There is a crying need for training in the public and private sectors on conflicts of interest, what they are, why they are a problem, how to recognise them and how to eliminate or mitigate them. Accompanied by oodles of stories showing that they are at the heart of pretty much every scandal going.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,321

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Whoever wins England vs France instantly becomes a strong second favourite. Frankly I think either would have the beating of Brazil.

    As for GB Utd, it might annoy some to say so but is there a single Welsh or Scotsman that would make it into the football side right now? Possibly a fit Kieran Tierney at left back. But not Bale or Ramsay anymore. The squad would have more depth I grant you.

    Intriguing too that the Wales wonder decade has not just coincided with the Bale era but also Swansea and Cardiff being premier league regulars. Proud Scots take note and try again to get the Old Firm in the pyramid south of the border to make a true British Premier League.

    Couldn't give much of a feck about which league Celtic and Rangers play in (aside from making parking easier in my bit a few days a year) but it'd be lovely to see the proud Brits that make up much of the Rangers' support exporting their culture to English cities on away days.
    The recent decline of Scottish football ought to concern the Scottish Government. Scottish teams no longer dominate Europe; Scottish players are no longer significant in the EPL. What's gone wrong up there? School playing fields sold off? It cannot be money or size because Wales is still there.
    It’s odd isn’t it. The premier league / first division always used to have a good number of Scots playing for the top sides.

    Scotland is to ban professional footballers from heading balls before and after matches

    If this becomes the norm it is only a short step away from banning heading in football and the end of the game as we know it today

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/28/scottish-footballers-to-be-banned-from-heading-ball-before-and-after-matches?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Good.
    Good to stop heading or good the end of the game as we know it
    Good to stop heading.
    The game I can take or leave.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049

    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    A massive part of art appreciation, from some random guy liking a piece in a small gallery to the massively inflated art market (which very much includes American action painters), is an individual fancying that they are making a connection with the individual who made a painting etc. I can’t see AI ever synthesising that so it will forever remain a cull-de-sac.
    It will be a bit like doping at the Olympics. There will be occasional scandals when artists are found to have used AI-assistance, and the rest of the time people will hope, rather than believe, that other artists are AI-free.

    To some extent we're halfway there already when you have authors like James Patterson with assistants who write his books, and artists have always had assistants helping with painting, etc.
    Yes and no. If you look at a work of a*t then much of the heavy lifting is done by you, the observer.

    One of the Tate's least successful initiatives was to remove the labels from their art works. Everyone hated it because they didn't know what to think.

    It's a bit like the art buyer's dread - that they will buy an abstract piece, put it up at home, and then find out that it was painted by a gerbil covered in paint or a six-year old and it was all a huge joke.

    If you find a piece of AI art moving, profound, and evocative of your childhood or late lamented parents or god then that is on you.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    DougSeal said:

    Apparently Southgate has been manager for 40% of England knockout wins at major tournaments.

    Depends how you view the early Euros.
    Given that there was a knockout match to qualify for the semi-finals in Euro 68, I'd count that as a knockout in a major tournament (although technically it wasn't), which makes Southgate 6 out of England's 16.

    Second would be Sir Alf with 4 (although only 3 if you didn't count that quarter-final win in Euro 68), third would be Bobby Robson with 3 (joint second with Sir Alf if we follow the letter of the law on Euro 68), and fourth would be Sven Goran-Eriksson with 2. With El Tel picking up the spare.

    Hodgson, Capello, McClaren, Keegan, Hoddle, Taylor, Greenwood, Revie, and Winterbottom all sharing the wooden spoon on 0.

    Looking at World Cups alone, we have a three way tie on 3 k/o wins between Sir Alf, Bobby Robson, and Southgate (Eriksson taking the only oter WC k/o wins with 2).
    Sir Alf wins on actually winning the thing.
    Southgate and Sir Alf are level on total games one (7 each, with Bobby Robson on 5 games won, level with Eriksson)
    Southgate is out ahead on goals scored, with 24 so far. Walter Winterbottom on 16 (over 4 World Cups). Sir Alf on 15, Bobby Robson on 14, Eriksson on 12.
    Equally, Sven probably deserves credit for automatically qualifying for the 2002 World Cup given the situation he inherited. And for then getting out of a group of death at the tournament itself.
  • Goblin mode makes me think of DnD murder hobos.
  • DougSeal said:

    Apparently Southgate has been manager for 40% of England knockout wins at major tournaments.

    Depends how you view the early Euros.
    Given that there was a knockout match to qualify for the semi-finals in Euro 68, I'd count that as a knockout in a major tournament (although technically it wasn't), which makes Southgate 6 out of England's 16.

    Second would be Sir Alf with 4 (although only 3 if you didn't count that quarter-final win in Euro 68), third would be Bobby Robson with 3 (joint second with Sir Alf if we follow the letter of the law on Euro 68), and fourth would be Sven Goran-Eriksson with 2. With El Tel picking up the spare.

    Hodgson, Capello, McClaren, Keegan, Hoddle, Taylor, Greenwood, Revie, and Winterbottom all sharing the wooden spoon on 0.

    Looking at World Cups alone, we have a three way tie on 3 k/o wins between Sir Alf, Bobby Robson, and Southgate (Eriksson taking the only oter WC k/o wins with 2).
    Sir Alf wins on actually winning the thing.
    Southgate and Sir Alf are level on total games one (7 each, with Bobby Robson on 5 games won, level with Eriksson)
    Southgate is out ahead on goals scored, with 24 so far. Walter Winterbottom on 16 (over 4 World Cups). Sir Alf on 15, Bobby Robson on 14, Eriksson on 12.
    Ron Greenwood was kyboshed by Brooking and Keegan being injured.

    England's main problem since David Beckham retired has been getting the ball up to the sharp end quickly enough, so the centre forward has to drop back into midfield to look for it, be that Rooney or Kane. Even yesterday, England was most threatening when Pickford punted the ball upfield, route one style. England's main strength is the bench supplying fresh legs as good as those replaced. In a tournament where many teams have been visibly flagging by the end, that might prove crucial.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,321
    edited December 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Guardian article on ChatGPT
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/04/ai-bot-chatgpt-stuns-academics-with-essay-writing-skills-and-usability

    Interesting point about copyright.
    The flip side of which is that AIs can create vast amounts of text, over which copyright could possibly be claimed. Could potentially make it very hard for human writers to work at all.

    Something similar is already happening with musical composition.

    To prove copyright infringement you have to show deliberate copying. It’s a high bar. Can machines have intent?
    Isn’t the issue the other way around, that the AI can churn out a billion words of text for which it can receive the copyright, so that a future human author finds it almost impossible to avoid infringement?
    Copyright necessarily involves artistic skill (I forget the precise wording). Even if we are glorified monkeys on glorified typewriters. And creation by a person. And, crucially, legal ownership by the creator, who therefore has to be a person or someone or some body else to which the copyright has been formally assigned. AI can't do that. So the programme would be copyright but not the output.

    THe Graun article is raising the rather different issues of student essay plagiarism and 'copyright laundering'.
    If AI is used as a tool to create text, does not copyright lie with the tool user ?
    As we've seen from Leon's examples, there is 'skill' involved in getting it to produce interesting stuff.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,722
    On the WC odds it's very fine margins now and I think the Big 5 (Brazil, Argentina, England, France, Spain) are all good enough and have approx the same chance of winning. So if I were betting (which I've decided not to atm) I'd probably be looking to lay Brazil and back England and/or Spain.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,321

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Guardian article on ChatGPT
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/04/ai-bot-chatgpt-stuns-academics-with-essay-writing-skills-and-usability

    Interesting point about copyright.
    The flip side of which is that AIs can create vast amounts of text, over which copyright could possibly be claimed. Could potentially make it very hard for human writers to work at all.

    Something similar is already happening with musical composition.

    To prove copyright infringement you have to show deliberate copying. It’s a high bar. Can machines have intent?
    Isn’t the issue the other way around, that the AI can churn out a billion words of text for which it can receive the copyright, so that a future human author finds it almost impossible to avoid infringement?
    Again, though, you have to prove intent. A human being cannot be reasonably expected to have knowledge of everything produced by AI.

    Or everything published by people.
    Copyright can still be enforced.
  • New one to me:

    A year ago, the lexicographic grandees at Oxford Languages dutifully stuck out their arms and chose “vax” as the 2021 Word of the Year.

    But this year, the venerable publisher behind the Oxford English Dictionary has — like the rest of us, apparently — gone full goblin mode.

    “Goblin mode” — a slang term referring to “a type of behavior which is unapologetically self-indulgent, lazy, slovenly, or greedy, typically in a way that rejects social norms or expectations” — has been named Oxford’s 2022 Word of the Year.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/arts/goblin-mode-oxford-word.html

    Never heard of it but according to its Wikipedia page (!) Elon Musk has used it. It looks to me like Oxford's lexicographers spend too much time perusing American social media.
    I was marginally aware of it but it's not a phrase I've really seen or heard. It's obviously not widely used by SE London teenagers, my source of knowledge for all cultural developments that have occurred since the early 2000s.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,172
    edited December 2022

    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    A massive part of art appreciation, from some random guy liking a piece in a small gallery to the massively inflated art market (which very much includes American action painters), is an individual fancying that they are making a connection with the individual who made a painting etc. I can’t see AI ever synthesising that so it will forever remain a cull-de-sac.
    It will be a bit like doping at the Olympics. There will be occasional scandals when artists are found to have used AI-assistance, and the rest of the time people will hope, rather than believe, that other artists are AI-free.

    To some extent we're halfway there already when you have authors like James Patterson with assistants who write his books, and artists have always had assistants helping with painting, etc.
    Actually I'm sure there will be dudes (Hirst and Koons spring to mind) who will make a public feature of AI assisted art if they haven't already. They already have people factories pumping out their goods, why not add a bit of fashionable tech? Don't care much for their work even with sticky human paw prints on it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109

    A massive part of art appreciation, from some random guy liking a piece in a small gallery to the massively inflated art market (which very much includes American action painters), is an individual fancying that they are making a connection with the individual who made a painting etc. I can’t see AI ever synthesising that so it will forever remain a cull-de-sac.

    There was an article recently about a piece of modern art that has been hanging in a gallery for years, upside down.

    When you see it the other way up it's immediately obvious.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,043

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Brutally cold weather coming

    "Cold weather in Winter shock horror"... headline should be more "UK cocks up winter again".
    Apropos of nothing and FWIW Helsinki airport has never closed for weather, no matter what the conditions.
    Proper Preparation Prevents Piss-Poor Performance.
    Uncalled for. In countries where snow happens every winter, there will naturally be a better resilience to er, snow.
    In the UK, notably in the south, you can go years without snow. Why have lots of expensive equipment and resource on the off chance? Its not simple.
    Especially when snowfalls were "a thing of the past" as long ago as 2000.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,321
    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    That's not how the current thing is working, though.
    You have to interact with it in interesting ways to get it to produce interesting stuff.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,321
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    The images I made via Stable Diffusion were so “inane” people freaked out and demanded I remove them and one said “that’s maybe the most horrifying image I’ve ever seen”

    And I was aiming for “horror” in my prompts

    I’m not sure that classifies as “inane”
    A couple of people.
    Most of us were just bored.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515
    Yep, Moscow is well within range.

    https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1599504060511444992?

    Not that I would recommend Ukraine to attack Moscow.
  • FYI, UK economy (48.2) still doing a little less badly than the euro area (47.8) and especially Germany (46.3), at least on the basis of the latest #PMI surveys, but bigger picture is that the whole of Europe is teetering on the brink of #recession... 👇

    pmi.spglobal.com/Public/Release…


    https://twitter.com/julianhjessop/status/1599706680027074560
  • kinabalu said:

    On the WC odds it's very fine margins now and I think the Big 5 (Brazil, Argentina, England, France, Spain) are all good enough and have approx the same chance of winning. So if I were betting (which I've decided not to atm) I'd probably be looking to lay Brazil and back England and/or Spain.

    Doesn't Brazil have an easier route through to the final, though? Assuming they beat Korea they face Japan or Croatia in the QFs. England and France should be marked down because they have to play each other in the QFs. On the basis of their likely opponents for the rest of the competition I would put Brazil top followed by Spain, Argentina, France and England in that order (France should be very narrow favourites against England I think). This assumes that Spain, Portugal and Brazil all win their R16 games. Right now the teams already through to the QFs should be weighted more heavily, obvs.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,529

    malcolmg said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Whoever wins England vs France instantly becomes a strong second favourite. Frankly I think either would have the beating of Brazil.

    As for GB Utd, it might annoy some to say so but is there a single Welsh or Scotsman that would make it into the football side right now? Possibly a fit Kieran Tierney at left back. But not Bale or Ramsay anymore. The squad would have more depth I grant you.

    Intriguing too that the Wales wonder decade has not just coincided with the Bale era but also Swansea and Cardiff being premier league regulars. Proud Scots take note and try again to get the Old Firm in the pyramid south of the border to make a true British Premier League.

    Couldn't give much of a feck about which league Celtic and Rangers play in (aside from making parking easier in my bit a few days a year) but it'd be lovely to see the proud Brits that make up much of the Rangers' support exporting their culture to English cities on away days.
    The recent decline of Scottish football ought to concern the Scottish Government. Scottish teams no longer dominate Europe; Scottish players are no longer significant in the EPL. What's gone wrong up there? School playing fields sold off? It cannot be money or size because Wales is still there.
    It’s odd isn’t it. The premier league / first division always used to have a good number of Scots playing for the top sides.

    MONEY
    Scots don’t like it? Or people with effectively unlimited budgets will hire elsewhere?
    Premier league and even some of teh lower leagues have teh money to buy the best abroad nowadays. Scots going to play in the top English leagues years ago meant a much stronger pool of players and hence national team. Also fact that Scottish teams also buy more foreign players does not help either. A sad reflection on the modern game, it is all just money. Used to love teh FA cup and Fair Cups , etc , the big teams had to go to all sorts of places and face tough games in fields etc. Now they are all pampered , seeded to make sure no tough games till the selected few meet in later rounds so more money can be made.
    News today that Rashford had to fly home as over 300K of watches were nicked from his house says it all.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited December 2022
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    That's not how the current thing is working, though.
    You have to interact with it in interesting ways to get it to produce interesting stuff.
    Well people are questioning the "interesting" premise.

    "Create something scary which looks like Freddie Krueger and Molly Sugden" may well get you something scary.

    But is it interesting?

    Your imagination is responsible for the output idea and the AI for the output image (or film, or...).

    If it's not random then it will take its place as an artistic genre. And people can decide on the interesting bit.

    I think the idea of a new tool is interesting but not as mind blowing as some others on here think.

    Horror (as Leon says) and porn I can see as the big markets.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,321
    Winter is usually the best season for mechanized warfare in Ukraine whereas spring is the nightmare season—ISW

    That's why partners' support is important no later than this winter, ISW added

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1599695321604403200
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,529

    malcolmg said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Whoever wins England vs France instantly becomes a strong second favourite. Frankly I think either would have the beating of Brazil.

    As for GB Utd, it might annoy some to say so but is there a single Welsh or Scotsman that would make it into the football side right now? Possibly a fit Kieran Tierney at left back. But not Bale or Ramsay anymore. The squad would have more depth I grant you.

    Intriguing too that the Wales wonder decade has not just coincided with the Bale era but also Swansea and Cardiff being premier league regulars. Proud Scots take note and try again to get the Old Firm in the pyramid south of the border to make a true British Premier League.

    Couldn't give much of a feck about which league Celtic and Rangers play in (aside from making parking easier in my bit a few days a year) but it'd be lovely to see the proud Brits that make up much of the Rangers' support exporting their culture to English cities on away days.
    The recent decline of Scottish football ought to concern the Scottish Government. Scottish teams no longer dominate Europe; Scottish players are no longer significant in the EPL. What's gone wrong up there? School playing fields sold off? It cannot be money or size because Wales is still there.
    It’s odd isn’t it. The premier league / first division always used to have a good number of Scots playing for the top sides.

    MONEY
    Money might explain why Stranraer did not bid for Christiano Ronaldo but not why Scotland cannot produce its own players. If anything, reduced foreign competition should make it easier for Scots to turn professional.
    Where did you get reduced foreign competition from? You think Scotland is any different from England in buying foreign players.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,529

    moonshine said:

    Whoever wins England vs France instantly becomes a strong second favourite. Frankly I think either would have the beating of Brazil.

    As for GB Utd, it might annoy some to say so but is there a single Welsh or Scotsman that would make it into the football side right now? Possibly a fit Kieran Tierney at left back. But not Bale or Ramsay anymore. The squad would have more depth I grant you.

    Intriguing too that the Wales wonder decade has not just coincided with the Bale era but also Swansea and Cardiff being premier league regulars. Proud Scots take note and try again to get the Old Firm in the pyramid south of the border to make a true British Premier League.

    Couldn't give much of a feck about which league Celtic and Rangers play in (aside from making parking easier in my bit a few days a year) but it'd be lovely to see the proud Brits that make up much of the Rangers' support exporting their culture to English cities on away days.
    The recent decline of Scottish football ought to concern the Scottish Government. Scottish teams no longer dominate Europe; Scottish players are no longer significant in the EPL. What's gone wrong up there? School playing fields sold off? It cannot be money or size because Wales is still there.
    C’mon, Scotland recently held the losing WC quarter finalists to a draw.
    Given England have not won an eggcup since the blatant dodgy win in 1966 these clowns are not very bright.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,141
    edited December 2022

    Yep, Moscow is well within range.

    https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1599504060511444992?

    Not that I would recommend Ukraine to attack Moscow.

    I would. It's the one language the Russians understand.

    The only reason they attacked in the first place was because they didn't think Ukraine would fight back.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,529

    Asked by
    @MishalHusain if being in the EU single market wd boost UK economic growth, @Keir_Starmer says: “No at this stage I don’t think it would.”

    Some will think "at this stage" is a signal to it being possible in future.
    Others will think it's a signal that ship has sailed


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1599679552061521922

    Later clarified as “ship has sailed”

    He seems intent on winning red wall seats but upsetting the rest with his anti single market stance
    If I’m a cynic I’d say this is pre/agreed

    - he goes for the red wall
    - Lib Dem’s much more pro-European and target the blue wall
    - Coalition
    - Labour “reluctantly” accepts Lib Dem position on Europe
    Starmer is a Tory in sheep's clothing he is probably serious as well as stupid.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Whoever wins England vs France instantly becomes a strong second favourite. Frankly I think either would have the beating of Brazil.

    As for GB Utd, it might annoy some to say so but is there a single Welsh or Scotsman that would make it into the football side right now? Possibly a fit Kieran Tierney at left back. But not Bale or Ramsay anymore. The squad would have more depth I grant you.

    Intriguing too that the Wales wonder decade has not just coincided with the Bale era but also Swansea and Cardiff being premier league regulars. Proud Scots take note and try again to get the Old Firm in the pyramid south of the border to make a true British Premier League.

    Couldn't give much of a feck about which league Celtic and Rangers play in (aside from making parking easier in my bit a few days a year) but it'd be lovely to see the proud Brits that make up much of the Rangers' support exporting their culture to English cities on away days.
    The recent decline of Scottish football ought to concern the Scottish Government. Scottish teams no longer dominate Europe; Scottish players are no longer significant in the EPL. What's gone wrong up there? School playing fields sold off? It cannot be money or size because Wales is still there.
    It’s odd isn’t it. The premier league / first division always used to have a good number of Scots playing for the top sides.

    Scotland is to ban professional footballers from heading balls before and after matches

    If this becomes the norm it is only a short step away from banning heading in football and the end of the game as we know it today

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/28/scottish-footballers-to-be-banned-from-heading-ball-before-and-after-matches?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Good.
    Good to stop heading or good the end of the game as we know it
    Good to stop heading.
    The game I can take or leave.
    I'm very conflicted. Heading in football is, and always has been, part of the fabric of the game. Some of the great goals in history have been headers. Making heading illegal would have a huge impact on how the game is played. No more need for tall players for a start.

    And yet its pretty clear that there is a link between playing football and dementia. Whether the dementia arises from heading the ball, or from accidental head clashes with other players is probably besides the point.

    Whether reducing heading in training will be enough is not clear - if its the head clashes probably not. If its just cumulative heading of the ball then perhaps yes.

    If I were the FA I would be commisioning trial games with heading banned to so how players adapt - but you'd want the best players and coaches as they are likely to come up with the best solutions.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,529

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Whoever wins England vs France instantly becomes a strong second favourite. Frankly I think either would have the beating of Brazil.

    As for GB Utd, it might annoy some to say so but is there a single Welsh or Scotsman that would make it into the football side right now? Possibly a fit Kieran Tierney at left back. But not Bale or Ramsay anymore. The squad would have more depth I grant you.

    Intriguing too that the Wales wonder decade has not just coincided with the Bale era but also Swansea and Cardiff being premier league regulars. Proud Scots take note and try again to get the Old Firm in the pyramid south of the border to make a true British Premier League.

    Couldn't give much of a feck about which league Celtic and Rangers play in (aside from making parking easier in my bit a few days a year) but it'd be lovely to see the proud Brits that make up much of the Rangers' support exporting their culture to English cities on away days.
    The recent decline of Scottish football ought to concern the Scottish Government. Scottish teams no longer dominate Europe; Scottish players are no longer significant in the EPL. What's gone wrong up there? School playing fields sold off? It cannot be money or size because Wales is still there.
    It’s odd isn’t it. The premier league / first division always used to have a good number of Scots playing for the top sides.

    Scotland is to ban professional footballers from heading balls before and after matches

    If this becomes the norm it is only a short step away from banning heading in football and the end of the game as we know it today

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/28/scottish-footballers-to-be-banned-from-heading-ball-before-and-after-matches?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    It is not quite how that is portrayed. Usual unionist propaganda.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,321
    edited December 2022
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Whether it's Back or Tracey Emin people like their art with some kind of intent.

    The closest to random intent and therefore programming AI to produce artistic content was the American action painters who valued the process/methodology as much as the output.

    If someone programmed a computer to produce AI art then it would fall within this category. At the heart is someone (the programmer) who wanted to divorce themselves from the conscious element and allow the result to become a phenomenon in itself.

    Ironically where AI might fail is that there is not this randomness that Rosenberg was describing but someone trying to create something, as we have seen from the inane examples by @Leon.

    If someone instructed AI to "create art" that might be a worthy legacy of Pollock et al.

    Anyway good morning team - breakfast calls on this chilly, damp Monday morning.

    That's not how the current thing is working, though.
    You have to interact with it in interesting ways to get it to produce interesting stuff.
    Well people are questioning the "interesting" premise.

    "Create something scary which looks like Freddie Krueger and Molly Sugden" may well get you something scary.

    But is it interesting?

    Your imagination is responsible for the output idea and the AI for the output image (or film, or...).

    If it's not random then it will take its place as an artistic genre. And people can decide on the interesting bit.

    I think the idea of a new tool is interesting but not as mind blowing as some others on here think.

    Horror (as Leon says) and porn I can see as the big markets.

    I disagree, as that view ignores how rapidly these tools can produce useful stuff.
    That's what differentiates it from what's gone before.

    In any event, the point I was making was about the enforceability of copyright for AI generated work. I think that will likely stand up in court.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,321
    A wicket.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Brutally cold weather coming

    Danger of burst pipes throughout the land if sub-zero weather meets unheated homes, not to mention more deaths.
    -4C in central London predicted overnight. That’s not unknown but still bloody cold
    Weirdly, we're not predicted sub-zero until Thursday, and even then only -2.

    I'm not sure why. Normally Cannock is much colder than everywhere else because it's on a bloody great south-west facing hillside with nothing in the way, but so far even by the standards of a very mild autumn we've had it milder than just about everyone. Still no frost, which in December is utterly unheard of.
    "November frost that can hold a duck, promises a winter of slush and muck"*

    Ergo, as we had no hard November frosts, we're in for a cold winter.

    (*One of my 90 yo, retired farmer, father-in-law's many weather saws - I half suspect he just makes them up.)
    That ones well known, but is demonstrably false, as Nov 2010 and the following winter showed.
    I suppose back in the days before we had Leondamus everyone just had to guess.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,954

    Yep, Moscow is well within range.

    https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1599504060511444992?

    Not that I would recommend Ukraine to attack Moscow.

    Lots of more valuable targets - ammunition dumps, airfields, railways - within that range.

    They won't be able to make them fast enough.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Whoever wins England vs France instantly becomes a strong second favourite. Frankly I think either would have the beating of Brazil.

    As for GB Utd, it might annoy some to say so but is there a single Welsh or Scotsman that would make it into the football side right now? Possibly a fit Kieran Tierney at left back. But not Bale or Ramsay anymore. The squad would have more depth I grant you.

    Intriguing too that the Wales wonder decade has not just coincided with the Bale era but also Swansea and Cardiff being premier league regulars. Proud Scots take note and try again to get the Old Firm in the pyramid south of the border to make a true British Premier League.

    Couldn't give much of a feck about which league Celtic and Rangers play in (aside from making parking easier in my bit a few days a year) but it'd be lovely to see the proud Brits that make up much of the Rangers' support exporting their culture to English cities on away days.
    The recent decline of Scottish football ought to concern the Scottish Government. Scottish teams no longer dominate Europe; Scottish players are no longer significant in the EPL. What's gone wrong up there? School playing fields sold off? It cannot be money or size because Wales is still there.
    It’s odd isn’t it. The premier league / first division always used to have a good number of Scots playing for the top sides.

    MONEY
    Scots don’t like it? Or people with effectively unlimited budgets will hire elsewhere?
    Premier league and even some of teh lower leagues have teh money to buy the best abroad nowadays. Scots going to play in the top English leagues years ago meant a much stronger pool of players and hence national team. Also fact that Scottish teams also buy more foreign players does not help either. A sad reflection on the modern game, it is all just money. Used to love teh FA cup and Fair Cups , etc , the big teams had to go to all sorts of places and face tough games in fields etc. Now they are all pampered , seeded to make sure no tough games till the selected few meet in later rounds so more money can be made.
    News today that Rashford had to fly home as over 300K of watches were nicked from his house says it all.
    The fact you can't get Raheem Sterling's name right says all we need to know about you.
This discussion has been closed.