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An update on the Tory commitment to a high wage economy – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    glw said:

    If the 'chatboxes' are accurate, yes. But what happens when they're wrong? If we're @rsing around on the Internet, they're fine. But what happens when we ask them for advice that is (ahem) dangerous?

    How is that any different from human beings who give out wrong advice all the time? If the error rate by computers is lower they will replace human beings.
    Human beings do not give out 'bad' advice all the time. Far from.

    Here's an example where a human-in-the-loop was invaluable (if you believe the story...) Incidentally, this occurred a month or so after 'War Games' was released.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm_incident

    There are also issues with culpability: if I go out and shoot someone, I'm liable. If a police robot shoots someone, who is liable? The robot? The officers who sent it in? The programmer?
  • Saka it up!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    So much for the curse of ITV.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    Andy_JS said:

    Are France worried yet?

    Depends very much who scores first. We only start playing with confidence when scoring first.
  • Time to haul off all Englands essential players.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Well.
    That was one of the least dominant 2-0 halves I've ever seen.
    Bellingham was immense.

    The best player on the pitch. Great move going to Germany, did wonders for his game. Much better than sitting on the bench here.
    Although he was always on the field for Birmingham City to be fair. They named a stand after him even though he left at 17.
    They retired his shirt number when he left. There is no Bellingham a stand there.
    No. I misremembered and corrected. There is also a mural which may have been what I recalled.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nurses probably deserve more than a 4% payrise but if they get significantly more than the 6% average UK payrise this year then the average taxpayer will be paying them for a bigger rise than they get.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/

    An above inflation payrise and we risk an inflationary wage spiral adding to the inflation pressures from the sanctions and supply restrictions from the Russian Ukrainian war

    Why do you hate public servants?

    You are reading from Zahawi's hymnsheet. As someone with political ambitions it is not the look you think it is.
    It is not hating public servants to suggest they shouldn’t get more than the 6% average pay rise.

    A Tory government is certainly not going to tax private sector workers and pensioners more to give public sector workers a bigger pay rise than they get, especially when most public sector workers vote Labour

    It only taxes private sector workers to give pensioners a bigger rise than they get...
    Pensioners reward for voting overwhelmingly Conservative, indeed more so than private sector workers.

    Just as Labour taxes private sector workers more to fund its public sector client vote

    "taxes".

    Do you have a time machine, or are you a member of one of those weird linguistic groups which has no past or present tense?

    Whacking fib there. Been a huge fib for all of 12 years. Apart from minor twiddles in Wales.
    Well, previously they would have borrowed too.

    Not an option now.
    Doesn't change the basic Tory strategy - fib about Labour being worse.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Taz said:

    Nope. You claimed the Tories gave up on winning by picking Boris.

    Nope

    I said they gave up on governing.

    Which they did
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nurses probably deserve more than a 4% payrise but if they get significantly more than the 6% average UK payrise this year then the average taxpayer will be paying them for a bigger rise than they get.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/

    An above inflation payrise and we risk an inflationary wage spiral adding to the inflation pressures from the sanctions and supply restrictions from the Russian Ukrainian war

    Why do you hate public servants?

    You are reading from Zahawi's hymnsheet. As someone with political ambitions it is not the look you think it is.
    It is not hating public servants to suggest they shouldn’t get more than the 6% average pay rise.

    A Tory government is certainly not going to tax private sector workers and pensioners more to give public sector workers a bigger pay rise than they get, especially when most public sector workers vote Labour

    It only taxes private sector workers to give pensioners a bigger rise than they get...
    Pensioners reward for voting overwhelmingly Conservative, indeed more so than private sector workers.

    Just as Labour taxes private sector workers more to fund its public sector client vote

    "taxes".

    Do you have a time machine, or are you a member of one of those weird linguistic groups which has no past or present tense?

    Whacking fib there. Been a huge fib for all of 12 years. Apart from minor twiddles in Wales.
    Well, previously they would have borrowed too.

    Not an option now.
    Oh, we’re still borrowing, a lot.
    Just that there’s no more headroom.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    WillG said:

    kinabalu said:

    We're much better than 'one man band' France.

    Giroud, Mbappe, Dembele, Griezman...
    As I say ...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Well.
    That was one of the least dominant 2-0 halves I've ever seen.
    Bellingham was immense.

    The best player on the pitch. Great move going to Germany, did wonders for his game. Much better than sitting on the bench here.
    Although he was always on the field for Birmingham City to be fair. They named a stand after him even though he left at 17.
    They retired his shirt number when he left. There is no Bellingham a stand there.
    No. I misremembered and corrected. There is also a mural which may have been what I recalled.
    Yes, there is a mural too.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Rice and Bellingham in central midfield is a very exciting long term prospect for England. Especially with Mount, Gallagher and Elliott to add into the mix.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,718
    England benefit from open play and loose balls. It will not be like that against France.
  • All we need is Leondamus to say France will beat England next week and then that means it's coming home.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    Scott_xP said:

    The only country in the World to impose economic sanctions on themselves.

    I thought you'd had a change of heart on seeing free trade as an unalloyed good?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    glw said:

    If the 'chatboxes' are accurate, yes. But what happens when they're wrong? If we're @rsing around on the Internet, they're fine. But what happens when we ask them for advice that is (ahem) dangerous?

    How is that any different from human beings who give out wrong advice all the time? If the error rate by computers is lower they will replace human beings.
    Most people are willing to forgive other human beings when they make mistakes. That may not be the case with computers.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    Important not to score too many more now. The tournament takes priority over the game.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,158
    edited December 2022
    geoffw said:

    England benefit from open play and loose balls. It will not be like that against France.

    Yup. And a lot of unpunished long ball play.
  • Time to haul off all Englands essential players.

    Pull them off surely.

    Form a queue lads.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    WillG said:

    Rice and Bellingham in central midfield is a very exciting long term prospect for England. Especially with Mount, Gallagher and Elliott to add into the mix.

    To this football ignoramus, Foden looks quite useful, too.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2022
    The betfair overall winner market implies odds around;

    England 6/4 v 4/6 France

    Maybe even a little tighter.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nurses probably deserve more than a 4% payrise but if they get significantly more than the 6% average UK payrise this year then the average taxpayer will be paying them for a bigger rise than they get.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/

    An above inflation payrise and we risk an inflationary wage spiral adding to the inflation pressures from the sanctions and supply restrictions from the Russian Ukrainian war

    Why do you hate public servants?

    You are reading from Zahawi's hymnsheet. As someone with political ambitions it is not the look you think it is.
    It is not hating public servants to suggest they shouldn’t get more than the 6% average pay rise.

    A Tory government is certainly not going to tax private sector workers and pensioners more to give public sector workers a bigger pay rise than they get, especially when most public sector workers vote Labour

    It only taxes private sector workers to give pensioners a bigger rise than they get...
    Pensioners reward for voting overwhelmingly Conservative, indeed more so than private sector workers.

    Just as Labour taxes private sector workers more to fund its public sector client vote

    "taxes".

    Do you have a time machine, or are you a member of one of those weird linguistic groups which has no past or present tense?

    Whacking fib there. Been a huge fib for all of 12 years. Apart from minor twiddles in Wales.
    Well, previously they would have borrowed too.

    Not an option now.
    Doesn't change the basic Tory strategy - fib about Labour being worse.
    In 2019, that wasn't a fib.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Are France worried yet?

    Depends very much who scores first. We only start playing with confidence when scoring first.
    The opposite isn't tested yet.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    England's additional disadvantage against France is France have had an extra day of rest.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    geoffw said:

    England benefit from open play and loose balls. It will not be like that against France.

    That’s rubbish. Just look at the first goal tonight.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Driver said:

    In 2019, that wasn't a fib.

    Truss was worse than Corbyn
  • FFS, get Kane & Bellingham off as well....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    WillG said:

    England's additional disadvantage against France is France have had an extra day of rest.

    6 vs 7 days isn't the same as 2 vs 3.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    If the Tories really still think the pensioners are their "client vote", I think they're in for a nasty shock.

    They are still
    The Tories and their pet donkey are in for a nasty shock!
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    Nope. You claimed the Tories gave up on winning by picking Boris.

    Nope

    I said they gave up on governing.

    Which they did
    No,they didn’t.

    They picked a winner.

  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Nigelb said:

    WillG said:

    Rice and Bellingham in central midfield is a very exciting long term prospect for England. Especially with Mount, Gallagher and Elliott to add into the mix.

    To this football ignoramus, Foden looks quite useful, too.
    Foden is a winger. We have lots of talent there too: Saka, Smith-Rowe, Rashford in addition to Foden. Our biggest issue is no obvious replacement to Kane since Greenwood ended his career. We need Tammy Abraham or Rashford to step up.

    Also a lack of long term left backs.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    World cups are great for global friendship and unity.

    I mean in the last few weeks the Scots have been Iranians, Americans, Welsh, Senegalese, and next week French.

    What do you mean, next week? Since 1295, more like.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022

    glw said:

    If the 'chatboxes' are accurate, yes. But what happens when they're wrong? If we're @rsing around on the Internet, they're fine. But what happens when we ask them for advice that is (ahem) dangerous?

    How is that any different from human beings who give out wrong advice all the time? If the error rate by computers is lower they will replace human beings.
    Human beings do not give out 'bad' advice all the time. Far from.

    Here's an example where a human-in-the-loop was invaluable (if you believe the story...) Incidentally, this occurred a month or so after 'War Games' was released.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm_incident

    There are also issues with culpability: if I go out and shoot someone, I'm liable. If a police robot shoots someone, who is liable? The robot? The officers who sent it in? The programmer?
    See also submariner Vasily Arkhipov's action during the 1962 Turkey-Italy-Cuba missile crisis.

    "If the error rate by computers is lower they will replace human beings."

    True Turingites don't get it that not all communications or predictions can be appraised for accuracy on a single quantitative scale. Got to wonder how they ever fall in love or suss that a baby is becoming overtired.

  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Tories v. Nurses

    That’s one sided.

    4% is just silly. They are going to have to give way on this to at least 6%, probably 7%. They would honestly be better doing it now with better grace.
    I have been told - whether truthfully or not I do not know - that almost all trusts charge nurses around £200 a month for parking. Plus, that after the first 3,000 miles the mileage rate for community nurses drops from a reasonable 56p per mile to a derisory 25p per mile.

    If true, a very very easy win would be to ban trusts from charging staff for parking while they're on shift and upping the mileage rate. The former would increase take home pay by around 15% in the case of any nurse with a car which outside London, Birmingham and Manchester is I would assume the vast majority of them.
    It's almost certainly incorrect.
    The £200 per month seems quite high, given what it is. I don't spend £200 per month on parking, and wouldn't even if I parked every day at the office (£8 x 22 = £176.... okay, not far off, but I could park at the much cheaper £5 per day car park, or even £3 per day if I chose to walk a bit further).

    The mileage rates so described would cause an absolute nightmare. As noted, they're NOT the pre-approved mileage rates set by HMRC, so the 11p excess should be subject to a BIK charge, but then the 20p shortfall on the rate between 45p and 25p on the remaining 7,000 miles could be reclaimed at 20%.

    HMRC won't give a shit if you don't claim the tax back, but they will damn well want that 11p x 20% off every nurse for the overclaimed mileage.
    That means every nurse is on self assessment, or else has to have a bespoke P11D.... every nurse in the country.

    ((Of course, maybe its true - HMRC are so shit these days, they probably wouldn't know their own rules allow them to claim the 11p excess))
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    They must be spending a fortune on knock-off kits and nylon flags.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Taz said:

    They picked a winner.

    With no interest in governing.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    WillG said:

    Rice and Bellingham in central midfield is a very exciting long term prospect for England. Especially with Mount, Gallagher and Elliott to add into the mix.

    To this football ignoramus, Foden looks quite useful, too.
    Foden is a winger. We have lots of talent there too: Saka, Smith-Rowe, Rashford in addition to Foden. Our biggest issue is no obvious replacement to Kane since Greenwood ended his career. We need Tammy Abraham or Rashford to step up.

    Also a lack of long term left backs.
    Or Calvert-Lewin to get fully fit again.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nurses probably deserve more than a 4% payrise but if they get significantly more than the 6% average UK payrise this year then the average taxpayer will be paying them for a bigger rise than they get.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/

    An above inflation payrise and we risk an inflationary wage spiral adding to the inflation pressures from the sanctions and supply restrictions from the Russian Ukrainian war

    Why do you hate public servants?

    You are reading from Zahawi's hymnsheet. As someone with political ambitions it is not the look you think it is.
    I've actually had some quite strong reactions from people against the idea of nurses getting anywhere near what they are asking for, on the grounds that those in minimum wage like in social care deserve it more.
    But. As has been pointed out. It isn't about "deserve". It's about staff retention and recruitment in both cases.
    True. But there is a point about public sympathy and if this will put pressure on the government to concede its position.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662
    edited December 2022

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Tories v. Nurses

    That’s one sided.

    4% is just silly. They are going to have to give way on this to at least 6%, probably 7%. They would honestly be better doing it now with better grace.
    I have been told - whether truthfully or not I do not know - that almost all trusts charge nurses around £200 a month for parking. Plus, that after the first 3,000 miles the mileage rate for community nurses drops from a reasonable 56p per mile to a derisory 25p per mile.

    If true, a very very easy win would be to ban trusts from charging staff for parking while they're on shift and upping the mileage rate. The former would increase take home pay by around 15% in the case of any nurse with a car which outside London, Birmingham and Manchester is I would assume the vast majority of them.
    It's almost certainly incorrect.
    The £200 per month seems quite high, given what it is. I don't spend £200 per month on parking, and wouldn't even if I parked every day at the office (£8 x 22 = £176.... okay, not far off, but I could park at the much cheaper £5 per day car park, or even £3 per day if I chose to walk a bit further).

    The mileage rates so described would cause an absolute nightmare. As noted, they're NOT the pre-approved mileage rates set by HMRC, so the 11p excess should be subject to a BIK charge, but then the 20p shortfall on the rate between 45p and 25p on the remaining 7,000 miles could be reclaimed at 20%.

    HMRC won't give a shit if you don't claim the tax back, but they will damn well want that 11p x 20% off every nurse for the overclaimed mileage.
    That means every nurse is on self assessment, or else has to have a bespoke P11D.... every nurse in the country.

    ((Of course, maybe its true - HMRC are so shit these days, they probably wouldn't know their own rules allow them to claim the 11p excess))
    £200 per year I can believe. I pay £38
    Per month for parking permit.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    DJ41 said:

    True Turingites don't get it that not all communications can be appraised on a single quantitative scale. Got to wonder how they ever fall in love or suss that a baby is getting overtired.

    You measure their performance, which we do for most important jobs anyway. If computers beat people they get the job and the people get the boot.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    Certainly great goals ; the level of performance will have to be a lot better against France though.

    Yep. Which is what you want. Last thing we needed today was to use up a great performance against Senegal. Genuine contenders have 2 max 3 great performances in them. If you use them inefficiently you don't win the WC.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    They picked a winner.

    With no interest in governing.
    On that metric I think he'd be ahead of someone like David Cameron.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    WillG said:

    Rice and Bellingham in central midfield is a very exciting long term prospect for England. Especially with Mount, Gallagher and Elliott to add into the mix.

    To this football ignoramus, Foden looks quite useful, too.
    Foden is a winger. We have lots of talent there too: Saka, Smith-Rowe, Rashford in addition to Foden. Our biggest issue is no obvious replacement to Kane since Greenwood ended his career. We need Tammy Abraham or Rashford to step up.

    Also a lack of long term left backs.
    I think that Foden is more an inside left than a winger. And potentially England's best player.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    glw said:

    DJ41 said:

    True Turingites don't get it that not all communications can be appraised on a single quantitative scale. Got to wonder how they ever fall in love or suss that a baby is getting overtired.

    You measure their performance, which we do for most important jobs anyway. If computers beat people they get the job and the people get the boot.
    I think you missed my point. But perhaps I missed yours too. I thought you were positing an eventual generalised or even universal replacement of human beings by computers.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2022
    kinabalu said:

    Certainly great goals ; the level of performance will have to be a lot better against France though.

    Yep. Which is what you want. Last thing we needed today was to use up a great performance against Senegal. Genuine contenders have 2 max 3 great performances in them. If you use them inefficiently you don't win the WC.
    Ok. I don’t know very much about football, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t work like that.

    You want form.

    Great performances are always a good indicator for future games. Poor, or unconvincing performances are never good.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    If the Tories really still think the pensioners are their "client vote", I think they're in for a nasty shock.

    They are still
    The Tories and their pet donkey are in for a nasty shock!
    We aren't, Tories lead 40% to 29% for Labour with over 65s even with Yougov which has a much bigger Labour lead than Opinium

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/eyyy9mimz1/TheTimes_VI_221130_W.pdf
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nurses probably deserve more than a 4% payrise but if they get significantly more than the 6% average UK payrise this year then the average taxpayer will be paying them for a bigger rise than they get.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/

    An above inflation payrise and we risk an inflationary wage spiral adding to the inflation pressures from the sanctions and supply restrictions from the Russian Ukrainian war

    Why do you hate public servants?

    You are reading from Zahawi's hymnsheet. As someone with political ambitions it is not the look you think it is.
    It is not hating public servants to suggest they shouldn’t get more than the 6% average pay rise.

    A Tory government is certainly not going to tax private sector workers and pensioners more to give public sector workers a bigger pay rise than they get, especially when most public sector workers vote Labour

    It only taxes private sector workers to give pensioners a bigger rise than they get...
    Pensioners reward for voting overwhelmingly Conservative, indeed more so than private sector workers.

    Just as Labour taxes private sector workers more to fund its public sector client vote

    Indeed.
    It would be nice if there were a party who would champion the interests of the private sector. I'd vote for it.
    Private sector workers are the swing voters between Tory Pensioners and Labour Public Sector
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nurses probably deserve more than a 4% payrise but if they get significantly more than the 6% average UK payrise this year then the average taxpayer will be paying them for a bigger rise than they get.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/

    An above inflation payrise and we risk an inflationary wage spiral adding to the inflation pressures from the sanctions and supply restrictions from the Russian Ukrainian war

    Why do you hate public servants?

    You are reading from Zahawi's hymnsheet. As someone with political ambitions it is not the look you think it is.
    I've actually had some quite strong reactions from people against the idea of nurses getting anywhere near what they are asking for, on the grounds that those in minimum wage like in social care deserve it more.
    But. As has been pointed out. It isn't about "deserve". It's about staff retention and recruitment in both cases.
    True. But there is a point about public sympathy and if this will put pressure on the government to concede its position.
    Public sympathy won't fill vacancies however.
  • Ridiculous not taking off Kane. If he gets injuried, England are absolutely f##ked.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    ...

    Ridiculous not taking off Kane. If he gets injuried, England are absolutely f##ked.

    He's scored one of the 12 goals in the tournament so far...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited December 2022
    England already having got further in the World Cup than both, indeed they failed to qualify.

    I would prefer a GB and NI football team though as at the Olympics
  • Driver said:

    ...

    Ridiculous not taking off Kane. If he gets injuried, England are absolutely f##ked.

    He's scored one of the 12 goals in the tournament so far...
    No other player in the squad can do what Kane as part of Southgate game plan.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nurses probably deserve more than a 4% payrise but if they get significantly more than the 6% average UK payrise this year then the average taxpayer will be paying them for a bigger rise than they get.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/

    An above inflation payrise and we risk an inflationary wage spiral adding to the inflation pressures from the sanctions and supply restrictions from the Russian Ukrainian war

    Why do you hate public servants?

    You are reading from Zahawi's hymnsheet. As someone with political ambitions it is not the look you think it is.
    It is not hating public servants to suggest they shouldn’t get more than the 6% average pay rise.

    A Tory government is certainly not going to tax private sector workers and pensioners more to give public sector workers a bigger pay rise than they get, especially when most public sector workers vote Labour

    It only taxes private sector workers to give pensioners a bigger rise than they get...
    Pensioners reward for voting overwhelmingly Conservative, indeed more so than private sector workers.

    Just as Labour taxes private sector workers more to fund its public sector client vote

    "taxes".

    Do you have a time machine, or are you a member of one of those weird linguistic groups which has no past or present tense?

    Whacking fib there. Been a huge fib for all of 12 years. Apart from minor twiddles in Wales.
    Well, previously they would have borrowed too.

    Not an option now.
    Doesn't change the basic Tory strategy - fib about Labour being worse.
    In 2019, that wasn't a fib.
    Was it? Were Labour *actually* taxing, in the present tense of the verb? No, they were not.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nurses probably deserve more than a 4% payrise but if they get significantly more than the 6% average UK payrise this year then the average taxpayer will be paying them for a bigger rise than they get.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/

    An above inflation payrise and we risk an inflationary wage spiral adding to the inflation pressures from the sanctions and supply restrictions from the Russian Ukrainian war

    Why do you hate public servants?

    You are reading from Zahawi's hymnsheet. As someone with political ambitions it is not the look you think it is.
    It is not hating public servants to suggest they shouldn’t get more than the 6% average pay rise.

    A Tory government is certainly not going to tax private sector workers and pensioners more to give public sector workers a bigger pay rise than they get, especially when most public sector workers vote Labour

    It only taxes private sector workers to give pensioners a bigger rise than they get...
    Pensioners reward for voting overwhelmingly Conservative, indeed more so than private sector workers.

    Just as Labour taxes private sector workers more to fund its public sector client vote

    "taxes".

    Do you have a time machine, or are you a member of one of those weird linguistic groups which has no past or present tense?

    Whacking fib there. Been a huge fib for all of 12 years. Apart from minor twiddles in Wales.
    Well, previously they would have borrowed too.

    Not an option now.
    Doesn't change the basic Tory strategy - fib about Labour being worse.
    In 2019, that wasn't a fib.
    Was it? Were Labour *actually* taxing, in the present tense of the verb? No, they were not.
    I was just referring to the "Labour being worse". Certainly true in 2019.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    ydoethur said:
    Er, something about Gaelic bread.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    HYUFD said:

    England already having got further in the World Cup than both, indeed they failed to qualify.

    I would prefer a GB and NI football team though as at the Olympics
    That's not saying much. The USA are a better footballing nation than either Scotland or Ireland.
  • WillG said:

    kinabalu said:

    We're much better than 'one man band' France.

    Giroud, Mbappe, Dembele, Griezman...
    On the plus side, they also have Varane.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,158
    edited December 2022
    Boring match, good result, with some great goals as well.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Boring match, good result, with some great goals as well.

    Just what the doctor ordered. A couple of half scares in the first 30 minutes, but the second half was a total non-event.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    ping said:

    kinabalu said:

    Certainly great goals ; the level of performance will have to be a lot better against France though.

    Yep. Which is what you want. Last thing we needed today was to use up a great performance against Senegal. Genuine contenders have 2 max 3 great performances in them. If you use them inefficiently you don't win the WC.
    Ok. I don’t know very much about football, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t work like that.

    You want form.

    Great performances are always a good indicator for future games. Poor, or unconvincing performances are never good.
    Nope. International tournament football DOES work like that. There's a rhythm to it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    Boring match, good result, with some great goals as well.

    It wasn't boring. It was engrossing. Watch basketball or something.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    Driver said:

    ...

    Ridiculous not taking off Kane. If he gets injuried, England are absolutely f##ked.

    He's scored one of the 12 goals in the tournament so far...
    No other player in the squad can do what Kane as part of Southgate game plan.
    That's right.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    I don’t think we’ll beat France, but some good goals there
  • Well that's all the kiddie teams dealt with, onto the grown ups....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    Ridiculous not taking off Kane. If he gets injuried, England are absolutely f##ked.

    He's important but I wouldn't go that far. It's a deep squad.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,158
    edited December 2022
    kinabalu said:

    Boring match, good result, with some great goals as well.

    It wasn't boring. It was engrossing. Watch basketball or something.
    I have seen some engrossing lower-scoring games in this world cup, but I wouldn't put this one in that category, for myself. Senegal barely seemed to have turned up, at times.

    Their fans were relentlessly cheerful and richly musical, though - a credit to their nation. As befits them, because Senegal and Mail are well-known for having the best music in Africa.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    I'm not confident of beating France. But I don't think the French will be either.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    @RachelReevesMP
    ·
    30m
    Watching the match in Leeds⁩ with ⁦
    @lisanandy
    ⁩ ⁦
    @TracyBrabin
    ⁩ ⁦
    @Keir_Starmer
    ⁩ & ⁦
    @GordonBrown


    Go England!! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1599501123009875971?s=20&t=-gM4NFLFhaOoFOZM7aDwnw
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    But anyway the REALLY big plus from tonight - the ITV curse is lifted!
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    3 games left.

    Is it? Is it coming?
  • Do England go with 5 at the back against France?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Interestingly the 538 predictor has now made England narrow favourites to beat France.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-world-cup-predictions/bracket/
  • Big Gord not having his favourite ever football moment surpassed by the look of this pic.


  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    Time to haul off all Englands essential players.

    Pull them off surely.

    Form a queue lads.
    Like Lionel Blair breathlessly pulling off Two Gentlemen of Verona?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    dixiedean said:

    I'm not confident of beating France. But I don't think the French will be either.

    50/50 game. Fine margins now. V tense. Oh god.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    Big Gord not having his favourite ever football moment surpassed by the look of this pic.


    What’s Liz Truss doing there?!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    HYUFD said:

    @RachelReevesMP
    ·
    30m
    Watching the match in Leeds⁩ with ⁦@lisanandy @TracyBrabin @Keir_Starmer & ⁦@GordonBrown

    Go England!! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1599501123009875971

    Gordon Brown supporting England?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    kinabalu said:

    Boring match, good result, with some great goals as well.

    It wasn't boring. It was engrossing. Watch basketball or something.
    I have seen some engrossing lower-scoring games in this world cup, but I wouldn't put this one in that category, for myself. Senegal barely seemed to have turned up, at times.
    They were rather flimsy that's true. And that goalie.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    Big Gord not having his favourite ever football moment surpassed by the look of this pic.


    Aw, I quite like that pic.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    edited December 2022

    Time to haul off all Englands essential players.

    Pull them off surely.

    Form a queue lads.
    Like Lionel Blair breathlessly pulling off Two Gentlemen of Verona?
    Is that what he called it? Most people would probably go for Love's Labour's Lost...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Page 26 of today's Sunday Times

    "The Chinese digital Stasi
    With 540 million camreras, AI that identifies you by your walk and knows how you're feeling, and a system to rate a citizen's loyalty, President Xi has built a 21st-century state to crush dissent"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinas-digital-stasi-sees-all-from-cyberspace-999jfxh8h
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Ridiculous not taking off Kane. If he gets injuried, England are absolutely f##ked.

    We’ve scored 12 goals in 4 games, Kane one of them. Yes he is excellent as a target and in hold up play, but I dont think we’d be totally sunk without him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    HYUFD said:

    @RachelReevesMP
    ·
    30m
    Watching the match in Leeds⁩ with ⁦@lisanandy @TracyBrabin @Keir_Starmer & ⁦@GordonBrown

    Go England!! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1599501123009875971

    Gordon Brown supporting England?
    Supporting the last remaining UK team, as all good Unionists should do, I would certainly be supporting Wales if they were through not England now.

    Only Nationalists get by on hating England more than even supporting their own team to win
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    Andy_JS said:

    Page 26 of today's Sunday Times

    "The Chinese digital Stasi
    With 540 million camreras, AI that identifies you by your walk and knows how you're feeling, and a system to rate a citizen's loyalty, President Xi has built a 21st-century state to crush dissent"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinas-digital-stasi-sees-all-from-cyberspace-999jfxh8h

    Yet we can't put a non-physical customs border in Northern Ireland. :neutral:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Big Gord not having his favourite ever football moment surpassed by the look of this pic.


    Aw, I quite like that pic.
    Starmer looks old, fat - but authentic. Think he really means it
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    ping said:

    The betfair overall winner market implies odds around;

    England 6/4 v 4/6 France

    Maybe even a little tighter.

    50/50 for me so England the value.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    edited December 2022
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm not confident of beating France. But I don't think the French will be either.

    50/50 game. Fine margins now. V tense. Oh god.
    Certainly not small boys in the park, jumpers for goalposts...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    HYUFD said:

    @RachelReevesMP
    ·
    30m
    Watching the match in Leeds⁩ with ⁦@lisanandy @TracyBrabin @Keir_Starmer & ⁦@GordonBrown

    Go England!! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1599501123009875971

    Gordon Brown supporting England?
    Not from the look on his face.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    WillG said:

    England's additional disadvantage against France is France have had an extra day of rest.

    Well, an extra 4 hours.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @RachelReevesMP
    ·
    30m
    Watching the match in Leeds⁩ with ⁦@lisanandy @TracyBrabin @Keir_Starmer & ⁦@GordonBrown

    Go England!! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1599501123009875971

    Gordon Brown supporting England?
    Supporting the last remaining UK team, as all good Unionists should do, I would certainly be supporting Wales if they were through not England now.

    Only Nationalists get by on hating England more than even supporting their own team to win
    That's nonsense. And you know it. You are positively getting by on your fantasies.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    After that second half, France will be worried

    They are still favourites but hmm

    God damn Mbappe! If it wasn't for him we'd likely cruise through. But: Mbappe
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited December 2022
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @RachelReevesMP
    ·
    30m
    Watching the match in Leeds⁩ with ⁦@lisanandy @TracyBrabin @Keir_Starmer & ⁦@GordonBrown

    Go England!! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1599501123009875971

    Gordon Brown supporting England?
    Supporting the last remaining UK team, as all good Unionists should do, I would certainly be supporting Wales if they were through not England now.

    Only Nationalists get by on hating England more than even supporting their own team to win
    That's nonsense. And you know it. You are positively getting by on your fantasies.
    I assume then you will be cheering England on against France?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    Time to haul off all Englands essential players.

    Pull them off surely.

    Form a queue lads.
    The old Rodney Marsh joke.

    "Marsh, if you don't buck up I'll pull you off at half time"

    "Really guv? Under Alf we just got a drink and an orange."
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    After the excitement and thrills of the group stages these knockouts have been dull so far.
    All 4 won by the favourite. None of whom ever looked like losing.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    Do England go with 5 at the back against France?

    More like 9 I think.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm not confident of beating France. But I don't think the French will be either.

    50/50 game. Fine margins now. V tense. Oh god.
    Certainly not small boys in the park, jumpers for goalposts...
    It's still that really, though, isn't it.
This discussion has been closed.