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Team Curtice or Team Kellner? – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    It's the government's job to properly regulate markets and ensure wealth isn't concentrated among too few people. A minimum wage rise doesn't necessarily help someone earning between £40-50k who has seen their tax bill rise and has seen a big rise in costs due to mortgage rates rising and inflation going up much faster than their wages. That working age person would have been a Tory voter under Cameron, they are now solidly Labour and that person is a marginal voter.

    The Tories have lost control of public spending, have lost control of pension spending and are going to be rightly punished by working age people at the next election. Labour might not have the answers, but we know the Tories don't. I was at a members event just recently and once again it showed me just how out of touch they all are. Selfish, old and completely insane.
    Inflation is rising mainly because of the Ukraine war reducing supplies and sanctions, that in turn leads to higher interest rates. Labour will put up tax on middle earners more than the Tories.

    And they will continue the triple lock

    Indeed there is no political party demanding the end of it
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    Andy_JS said:

    I am the only one who finds all this anti-pensioner sentiment to be in bad taste?

    No you're not. The same posters who accuse Labour of being involved in class warfare over, for example, private school fees, seem to be entirely comfortable in engaging in age/pensioner warfare. The politics of envy, eh?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Andy_JS said:

    I am the only one who finds all this anti-pensioner sentiment to be in bad taste?

    It's anti tory pensioner sentiment so fair enough.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Less than 4 runs an over needed by Pakistan. England scored at about 7 an over.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    I think this is pretty well the correct take on the Hunter Biden nonsense.
    Good thread.

    The thing to understand about the Hunter Biden laptop story was that it was SUPPOSED to be the Trump campaign’s “October Surprise.”

    Mainstream media and social media were supposed to take the bait and focus on the appearance of scandal for the last weeks of the election. …

    https://twitter.com/davekarpf/status/1599165345461596160

    … Why should we care about the President’s adult failson who doesn’t work in the administration? Two years later, what’s the scandal supposed to even be?

    … The scandal is that their clever propaganda effort sank like a lead balloon. And that has to be SOMEONE ELSE’S fault.

    That’s it. That’s the whole thing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Bozza said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    It's the government's job to properly regulate markets and ensure wealth isn't concentrated among too few people. A minimum wage rise doesn't necessarily help someone earning between £40-50k who has seen their tax bill rise and has seen a big rise in costs due to mortgage rates rising and inflation going up much faster than their wages. That working age person would have been a Tory voter under Cameron, they are now solidly Labour and that person is a marginal voter.

    The Tories have lost control of public spending, have lost control of pension spending and are going to be rightly punished by working age people at the next election. Labour might not have the answers, but we know the Tories don't. I was at a members event just recently and once again it showed me just how out of touch they all are. Selfish, old and completely insane.
    Even if you have already decided that the Conservatives since Liz Truss's have let the agenda run away from them, you must consider that if Sir Keir Chavez became Prime Minister we would have a sub-Venezuelan economy within six months. Remember 1945, 1964, 1974 and 1997?
    Are you Leon’s effort to get GPT3 to do Boris ?
    Needs some work.

  • TresTres Posts: 2,700
    Andy_JS said:

    I am the only one who finds all this anti-pensioner sentiment to be in bad taste?

    these days pensioners are icky boomers not a generation of war survivors
  • Andy_JS said:

    I am the only one who finds all this anti-pensioner sentiment to be in bad taste?

    I have quietly let it pass me by, as it is a view, but I have paid all my taxes over near 80 years, struggled to pay our mortgage at times, have saved into a private pension, and above all else the language used against the elderly is not recognised in our children and grandchildren whose love is total and unconditional
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Andy_JS said:

    I am the only one who finds all this anti-pensioner sentiment to be in bad taste?

    Yes they paid in all their life, do a great deal for the voluntary sector etc.

    It is not their fault 21st century capitalism is failing to create high wage, permanent jobs for middle earners and the education system is not producing enough high skilled to deserve higher wages
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Tres said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I am the only one who finds all this anti-pensioner sentiment to be in bad taste?

    these days pensioners are icky boomers not a generation of war survivors
    Bellend @Tres
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,158
    edited December 2022
    "OK Boomer !"

    The generational antipathy is stark.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Andy_JS said:

    Less than 4 runs an over needed by Pakistan. England scored at about 7 an over.

    Will be the second highest aggregate Test score if they get them. And highest since 1939.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. NorthWales, I'm not on the left, but it would take a black swan to avoid Labour winning the most seats and forming the government, either as coalition, minority, or perhaps with their own majority.

    The Conservatives have a lot against them. If it hadn't been for the Truss episode then Sunak might have been able to move things on, but instead of a fresh start Truss worsened their situation.

    The economy's in poor shape, the blues have been in for a long time, they've had a good amount of infighting, and the media (haven't shrieked about a bad exchange rate) have barely covered the pound's recovery.

    I agree. I can't see anything but a Labour government because, even if they fall short of an overall majority, they are the only ones that other parties would support.

    Apart from a handful of DUP MP's the Tories have no paotential coalition partners. The Lib Dems, SNP and Plaid would all support Labour over the Tories.

    I doubt the Lib Dems will nver make the mistake of backing the Conservatives again after the way Cameron shafted them at the end of the coalition - short term gain with long term consequences.

  • TresTres Posts: 2,700
    how do you feel about being part of the generation that voted for Scotland to remain ruled by London Malc?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Andy_JS said:

    Less than 4 runs an over needed by Pakistan. England scored at about 7 an over.

    Yes, I think Stokes’ desire for a win has thrown the game.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Dura_Ace said:

    I saw the testicle headed curiosity Zahawi on Sky News telling people not to try for pay rises that match inflation. That tory commitment to a high wage economy didn't last long.

    Unless it's dividends or bonuses it's inflationary and immoral.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Pulpstar said:

    England have to bea touch careful here, there's not much sign of the pitch breaking up

    Well
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    dixiedean said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I saw the testicle headed curiosity Zahawi on Sky News telling people not to try for pay rises that match inflation. That tory commitment to a high wage economy didn't last long.

    Unless it's dividends or bonuses it's inflationary and immoral.
    Or pensions.

    Thing is, the overall point is right; the events of the last few years have made the country significantly poorer.
    Quite a few someones are going to have to take the hit; the argument is more about who are the minority who might escape it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Less than 4 runs an over needed by Pakistan. England scored at about 7 an over.

    Yes, I think Stokes’ desire for a win has thrown the game.
    It’s an interesting call. Only one side has chased over 300 in Pakistan to win. But this pitch is exceptionally flat. We will lose a fair stack of overs, take 20 off what officially remains - the light will go at the same time as the last few days. Plus if we had set 450 in fewer overs they might as well have shaken hands tonight.
    Plus I put an excellent bet on a Pakistan win after the first day, so I’d be quits in.
    But I think on the whole I prefer this, to a tedious draw.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    It would be pretty remarkable if a team that scored over 500 on day one of a test went on to lose that test. Pakistan are now favourites to win.
    Bazball, or Bonkersball?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    Dura_Ace said:

    I saw the testicle headed curiosity Zahawi on Sky News telling people not to try for pay rises that match inflation. That tory commitment to a high wage economy didn't last long.

    Who the fuck do they think they are?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I am the only one who finds all this anti-pensioner sentiment to be in bad taste?

    It's anti tory pensioner sentiment so fair enough.
    Anyway of giving us non Tory pensioners a break then?
  • Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I saw the testicle headed curiosity Zahawi on Sky News telling people not to try for pay rises that match inflation. That tory commitment to a high wage economy didn't last long.

    Unless it's dividends or bonuses it's inflationary and immoral.
    Or pensions.

    Thing is, the overall point is right; the events of the last few years have made the country significantly poorer.
    Quite a few someones are going to have to take the hit; the argument is more about who are the minority who might escape it.
    Liz Truss was right. We do need to focus on expanding the economy. We can't cut our way to growth.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Bozza said:

    Sean_F said:

    I expect Labour will win an overall majority, but then, in mid-2008, I expected the Conservatives would win an overall majority.

    Governments recover, somewhat, from their mid-term polling.

    A change of leadership from a vin ordinaire Prime Minister to a certified winner, especially against a seated row of Opposition Front Bench nincompoops would do the trick.
    So his dwindling fan club are still around! I thought they'd closed down ages ago.

    Or are you family?
  • HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,158
    edited December 2022
    Bozza was on 29% before he left, and Sunak is on 29% too, in that last poll. So I'm not entirely sure about that, Bozza.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    malcolmg said:

    Tres said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I am the only one who finds all this anti-pensioner sentiment to be in bad taste?

    these days pensioners are icky boomers not a generation of war survivors
    Bellend @Tres
    Ok, Boomer

    (can Gen Xers say that?)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Less than 4 runs an over needed by Pakistan. England scored at about 7 an over.

    Yes, I think Stokes’ desire for a win has thrown the game.
    It’s an interesting call. Only one side has chased over 300 in Pakistan to win. But this pitch is exceptionally flat. We will lose a fair stack of overs, take 20 off what officially remains - the light will go at the same time as the last few days. Plus if we had set 450 in fewer overs they might as well have shaken hands tonight.
    Plus I put an excellent bet on a Pakistan win after the first day, so I’d be quits in.
    But I think on the whole I prefer this, to a tedious draw.
    It’s going to be entertaining, but I insist on maintaining my gloom over England’s prospects, despite the early wicket.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I saw the testicle headed curiosity Zahawi on Sky News telling people not to try for pay rises that match inflation. That tory commitment to a high wage economy didn't last long.

    Unless it's dividends or bonuses it's inflationary and immoral.
    Or pensions.

    Thing is, the overall point is right; the events of the last few years have made the country significantly poorer.
    Quite a few someones are going to have to take the hit; the argument is more about who are the minority who might escape it.
    Liz Truss was right. We do need to focus on expanding the economy. We can't cut our way to growth.
    Which is why I’m more confident than ever in the tidy sum I’ve got on her for next PM.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    And who is going to do all the work, if, and when you do?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    And who is going to do all the work, if, and when you do?
    Workshy woke millennials of course
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I saw the testicle headed curiosity Zahawi on Sky News telling people not to try for pay rises that match inflation. That tory commitment to a high wage economy didn't last long.

    Unless it's dividends or bonuses it's inflationary and immoral.
    Or pensions.

    Thing is, the overall point is right; the events of the last few years have made the country significantly poorer.
    Quite a few someones are going to have to take the hit; the argument is more about who are the minority who might escape it.
    Liz Truss was right. We do need to focus on expanding the economy. We can't cut our way to growth.
    Which is why I’m more confident than ever in the tidy sum I’ve got on her for next PM.
    When she actually is, you’re going to be kicking yourself for treating her as a joke.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Less than 4 runs an over needed by Pakistan. England scored at about 7 an over.

    Yes, I think Stokes’ desire for a win has thrown the game.
    It’s an interesting call. Only one side has chased over 300 in Pakistan to win. But this pitch is exceptionally flat. We will lose a fair stack of overs, take 20 off what officially remains - the light will go at the same time as the last few days. Plus if we had set 450 in fewer overs they might as well have shaken hands tonight.
    Plus I put an excellent bet on a Pakistan win after the first day, so I’d be quits in.
    But I think on the whole I prefer this, to a tedious draw.
    It’s going to be entertaining, but I insist on maintaining my gloom over England’s prospects, despite the early wicket.
    Fortune favours the brave, apparently. Babar is a huge wicket.
  • Andy_JS said:

    I am the only one who finds all this anti-pensioner sentiment to be in bad taste?

    How delightfully woke of you.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,158
    edited December 2022
    "Wokerama, baby ! "

    "OK Boomer, daddio !"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Less than 4 runs an over needed by Pakistan. England scored at about 7 an over.

    Yes, I think Stokes’ desire for a win has thrown the game.
    It’s an interesting call. Only one side has chased over 300 in Pakistan to win. But this pitch is exceptionally flat. We will lose a fair stack of overs, take 20 off what officially remains - the light will go at the same time as the last few days. Plus if we had set 450 in fewer overs they might as well have shaken hands tonight.
    Plus I put an excellent bet on a Pakistan win after the first day, so I’d be quits in.
    But I think on the whole I prefer this, to a tedious draw.
    It’s going to be entertaining, but I insist on maintaining my gloom over England’s prospects, despite the early wicket.
    Don’t get excited by that second wicket. It means nothing.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Dura_Ace said:

    I saw the testicle headed curiosity Zahawi on Sky News telling people not to try for pay rises that match inflation. That tory commitment to a high wage economy didn't last long.

    And the MPs themselves set such a good example, too.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Dura_Ace said:

    I saw the testicle headed curiosity Zahawi on Sky News telling people not to try for pay rises that match inflation. That tory commitment to a high wage economy didn't last long.

    I don't think a high wage economy was ever a commitment. Spin, rather, that labour shortages were always part of the plan.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    Easy, students. Let universities raise the fees on foreign students to make up for the difference.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I saw the testicle headed curiosity Zahawi on Sky News telling people not to try for pay rises that match inflation. That tory commitment to a high wage economy didn't last long.

    Unless it's dividends or bonuses it's inflationary and immoral.
    Or pensions.

    Thing is, the overall point is right; the events of the last few years have made the country significantly poorer.
    Quite a few someones are going to have to take the hit; the argument is more about who are the minority who might escape it.
    Liz Truss was right. We do need to focus on expanding the economy. We can't cut our way to growth.
    Which is why I’m more confident than ever in the tidy sum I’ve got on her for next PM.
    When she actually is, you’re going to be kicking yourself for treating her as a joke.
    I always bet heavily as an emotional hedge. If it happens I’m taking the holiday of a lifetime.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Jonathan said:

    It’s all very mid term at the moment, but the Tories did crash the economy. My hunch is that Labour have a chance of power, which is pretty remarkable given the 2019 result. I put it no stronger than that.

    Obviously the Tories need a break. They’re divided and pretty much gone back on everything they previously stood for. Lower taxes and stability is not something they can offer next time with a straight face.

    ...Nor integrity or honesty which I suspect will count against them more because it's now ingrained.
  • The Sunday Times has the story today of a certain Mr Philip Johnson who has paid himself £13m out of a £70m profit on mostly unused PPE supplied on an un-tendered contract… Mr Johnson celebrated his birthday last week with a birthday cake in the shape of a briefcase full of cash… and that’s why this formerly loyal Tory voter will be voting Labour in 2024… Mr Johnson is lucky that a short trip in a tumbrel is no longer fashionable…
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Less than 4 runs an over needed by Pakistan. England scored at about 7 an over.

    Yes, I think Stokes’ desire for a win has thrown the game.
    It’s an interesting call. Only one side has chased over 300 in Pakistan to win. But this pitch is exceptionally flat. We will lose a fair stack of overs, take 20 off what officially remains - the light will go at the same time as the last few days. Plus if we had set 450 in fewer overs they might as well have shaken hands tonight.
    Plus I put an excellent bet on a Pakistan win after the first day, so I’d be quits in.
    But I think on the whole I prefer this, to a tedious draw.
    It’s going to be entertaining, but I insist on maintaining my gloom over England’s prospects, despite the early wicket.
    It may sound wrong as an England supporter but winning this game almost comes second now to the fact they have performed so amazingly well and have had the balls to declare and try and get a win rather than go for the easy draw. It is really inspirational cricket.
    Really hard to argue with that. Almost any other team would have accepted the tame and boring draw this awful pitch deserves.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    tlg86 said:

    I don't understand this chart. This isn't all the by-elections, is it? So how are they selected?

    I kind of like the RodCrosby method of taking an average then subtracting whatever's typical. Was it 4% swing or 6% swing or something like that? Every by-election has special circumstances so you can reach any conclusion you like if you cherry-pick them.

    I don’t know the criteria, but I don’t think it’s controversial to say that Labour haven’t achieved the sorts of by-election results that Tony Blair did. Now, Starmer doesn’t need to be Tony Blair, but he does have to be better than Ed Miliband.
    I would say the polls now are more like those of 1995 than 1990, two years before the respective elections. The 1995 polls were even more starkly for Labour than now. As it turned out they overstated that party in 1997, but no-one noticed in the Blair election tsunami. The 1997 Labour vote was extremely efficient, which may not be the case in 2024.

    I think we are discussing to the extremes, either a Conservative extinction event or no/minimal Labour majority. It's quite likely to be a sizeable Labour majority of say 80, similar to Johnson in 2019.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Less than 4 runs an over needed by Pakistan. England scored at about 7 an over.

    Yes, I think Stokes’ desire for a win has thrown the game.
    It’s an interesting call. Only one side has chased over 300 in Pakistan to win. But this pitch is exceptionally flat. We will lose a fair stack of overs, take 20 off what officially remains - the light will go at the same time as the last few days. Plus if we had set 450 in fewer overs they might as well have shaken hands tonight.
    Plus I put an excellent bet on a Pakistan win after the first day, so I’d be quits in.
    But I think on the whole I prefer this, to a tedious draw.
    It’s going to be entertaining, but I insist on maintaining my gloom over England’s prospects, despite the early wicket.
    It may sound wrong as an England supporter but winning this game almost comes second now to the fact they have performed so amazingly well and have had the balls to declare and try and get a win rather than go for the easy draw. It is really inspirational cricket.
    They've made this game worth watching
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    Just remove students from the numbers. They are mainly transient anyway.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,158
    edited December 2022

    The Sunday Times has the story today of a certain Mr Philip Johnson who has paid himself £13m out of a £70m profit on mostly unused PPE supplied on an un-tendered contract… Mr Johnson celebrated his birthday last week with a birthday cake in the shape of a briefcase full of cash… and that’s why this formerly loyal Tory voter will be voting Labour in 2024… Mr Johnson is lucky that a short trip in a tumbrel is no longer fashionable…

    It's all very late '90s. All we need is the "trusty sword of British justice" and Philip Johnson to follow Jonathan Aitken's model of becoming an ordained minister, while Brian Cox and D:Ream prepare their latest record for John Prescott to dance to again as Starmer is sworn in.
  • MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    Easy, students. Let universities raise the fees on foreign students to make up for the difference.
    Might that not make UK Universities uncompetitive with Australia and other countries - such as Germany?

    https://monitor.icef.com/2022/10/germanys-foreign-enrolment-reaches-record-high-with-increase-of-8-in-2021-22/

    I think its daft including students in the immigration numbers in the first place - unless and until they switch to a work visa - which more of them are doing:

    https://thepienews.com/news/students-switch-skilled-worker-visa-arrival-uk/
  • DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Less than 4 runs an over needed by Pakistan. England scored at about 7 an over.

    Yes, I think Stokes’ desire for a win has thrown the game.
    It’s an interesting call. Only one side has chased over 300 in Pakistan to win. But this pitch is exceptionally flat. We will lose a fair stack of overs, take 20 off what officially remains - the light will go at the same time as the last few days. Plus if we had set 450 in fewer overs they might as well have shaken hands tonight.
    Plus I put an excellent bet on a Pakistan win after the first day, so I’d be quits in.
    But I think on the whole I prefer this, to a tedious draw.
    It’s going to be entertaining, but I insist on maintaining my gloom over England’s prospects, despite the early wicket.
    It may sound wrong as an England supporter but winning this game almost comes second now to the fact they have performed so amazingly well and have had the balls to declare and try and get a win rather than go for the easy draw. It is really inspirational cricket.
    Really hard to argue with that. Almost any other team would have accepted the tame and boring draw this awful pitch deserves.
    It's all very late '90s. All we need is the "trusty sword of British justice" and Philip Johnson to follow Jonathan Aitken's model and to become a man of god.
    That's an interesting take on BazBall
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited December 2022
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    Just remove students from the numbers. They are mainly transient anyway.
    It's "international best practice". The ONS had a paper on it:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/articles/longterminternationalmigration/internationalstudentmigrationwhatdothestatisticstellus/internationalstudentmigrationtcm77431150.pdf
  • Discussing math with ChatGPT feels like a slow descent into insanity.

    https://twitter.com/tzumaoli/status/1599307041436098561
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    Andy_JS said:

    I am the only one who finds all this anti-pensioner sentiment to be in bad taste?

    I am waiting for the attacks on the EvilNeonNaziRacistXenophobeGammonTory…WorkshyBebefitCheats. Who instead of working for 1d for that nice Mr Scrooge have decided to lie at home in their mansions on their piles of money, stolen from Honest Working People.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    Easy, students. Let universities raise the fees on foreign students to make up for the difference.
    Might that not make UK Universities uncompetitive with Australia and other countries - such as Germany?

    https://monitor.icef.com/2022/10/germanys-foreign-enrolment-reaches-record-high-with-increase-of-8-in-2021-22/

    I think its daft including students in the immigration numbers in the first place - unless and until they switch to a work visa - which more of them are doing:

    https://thepienews.com/news/students-switch-skilled-worker-visa-arrival-uk/
    Universities are very much one of our export industries and need to be encouraged. People who graduate here and then work on have a very good prospect of being net contributors. Really don't have a problem with it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,900
    edited December 2022

    Discussing math with ChatGPT feels like a slow descent into insanity.

    https://twitter.com/tzumaoli/status/1599307041436098561

    The WAN show had a feature on Leon's new ai chatbot, including reading out the sponsor links it generated so you can see what it gets right and wrong. Leon might be right that some jobs will be at risk but otoh the demise of proof-readers had more to do with newspapers saving money than with the rise of Grammarly.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luz82RG5PqA

    ETA and some jobs will be made easier. Perhaps PB veteran @SeanT will return once he sees that ChatGPT can get him past his writer's block.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut. It also mentions polling with half wanting inheritance tax abolished and 2/3 no rise in it.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South.

    You're missing the point - I stressed Tory policy on inflating house prices in the SE. Ifd it weren't for that, your special pleading would be unnecessary.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Ridiculous having a drinks break when light is going to drive them off within half an hour.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    Easy, students. Let universities raise the fees on foreign students to make up for the difference.
    Might that not make UK Universities uncompetitive with Australia and other countries - such as Germany?

    https://monitor.icef.com/2022/10/germanys-foreign-enrolment-reaches-record-high-with-increase-of-8-in-2021-22/

    I think its daft including students in the immigration numbers in the first place - unless and until they switch to a work visa - which more of them are doing:

    https://thepienews.com/news/students-switch-skilled-worker-visa-arrival-uk/
    Not really, someone who wants to get an education at a UK university won't be looking at Germany anyway. If it means fewer spurious "IT masters" students/overstayers from India and Pakistan then so much the better.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I saw the testicle headed curiosity Zahawi on Sky News telling people not to try for pay rises that match inflation. That tory commitment to a high wage economy didn't last long.

    Unless it's dividends or bonuses it's inflationary and immoral.
    Or pensions.

    Thing is, the overall point is right; the events of the last few years have made the country significantly poorer.
    Quite a few someones are going to have to take the hit; the argument is more about who are the minority who might escape it.
    Liz Truss was right. We do need to focus on expanding the economy. We can't cut our way to growth.
    Which is why I’m more confident than ever in the tidy sum I’ve got on her for next PM.
    Truss left office with the Tories heading for wipeout after her economic policies crashed the markets, Opinium yesterday puts the Tories under Sunak back to 2005 levels
  • Discussing math with ChatGPT feels like a slow descent into insanity.

    https://twitter.com/tzumaoli/status/1599307041436098561

    It's like reading about grammar schools on here
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Just weird watching Jimmy bowl without a slip.
  • Discussing math with ChatGPT feels like a slow descent into insanity.

    https://twitter.com/tzumaoli/status/1599307041436098561

    The WAN show had a feature on Leon's new ai chatbot, including reading out the sponsor links it generated so you can see what it gets right and wrong. Leon might be right that some jobs will be at risk but otoh the demise of proof-readers had more to do with newspapers saving money than with the rise of Grammarly.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luz82RG5PqA

    ETA and some jobs will be made easier. Perhaps PB veteran @SeanT will return once he sees that ChatGPT can get him past his writer's block.
    I like the quirk that if you ask it particular types of questions, it starts asking you ones back e.g. people have asked it questions in the style of jeopardy & it starts to quiz them.

    Imagine deploying this as customer service rep & it gets stuck in the loop of replying by asking you about how to go about fixing a boiler in response to you asking about getting somebody to fix your washing machine...
  • Russians executed civilians in Luhansk region, Ukraine. Publicly and demonstratively, for the whole world to see.

    I don’t understand why Ukraine isn’t given new tanks and missiles to punish this absolute evil. Russian evil.

    PHOTOGRAPHS IN TWEET

    https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1599309556823097345
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    Easy, students. Let universities raise the fees on foreign students to make up for the difference.
    Every overseas student is £70,000 (over 3 years) or so to a Russell group uni. Removing them would remove £bns from the economy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Russians executed civilians in Luhansk region, Ukraine. Publicly and demonstratively, for the whole world to see.

    I don’t understand why Ukraine isn’t given new tanks and missiles to punish this absolute evil. Russian evil.

    PHOTOGRAPHS IN TWEET

    https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1599309556823097345

    Castrated two of them as well, or so it looks. My god
  • Some people seem to arguing there will be some swingback to the Tories before the (assumed) 2024 election, but I've yet to see a persuasive argument for what conditions (eg. economic) cause that swingback. Before 1997 there was an economic recovery. We've got at least a year of pain to come. The winter fuel bills have only started to land. Re-mortgaging and ending fixed rate energy deals is also a slow burn = more people will be feeling the pain each month as they deals end.

    On the Chester result and extrapolating what the swing to Labour means, comparing by-election swing in an opposition seat to a Government held one does seem like apples and pears. Worth noting that I recall in 1997 there was a smaller swing to Labour in Labour-held seats where the result was a foregone conclusion than in Tory defences. Suspect that was the dynamic in Chester.
  • DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    Easy, students. Let universities raise the fees on foreign students to make up for the difference.
    Might that not make UK Universities uncompetitive with Australia and other countries - such as Germany?

    https://monitor.icef.com/2022/10/germanys-foreign-enrolment-reaches-record-high-with-increase-of-8-in-2021-22/

    I think its daft including students in the immigration numbers in the first place - unless and until they switch to a work visa - which more of them are doing:

    https://thepienews.com/news/students-switch-skilled-worker-visa-arrival-uk/
    Universities are very much one of our export industries and need to be encouraged. People who graduate here and then work on have a very good prospect of being net contributors. Really don't have a problem with it.
    I agree - there has been a considerable crack down on the old "Language Schools" of old which flourished under Labour (that nasty Mrs May). I don't see the problem as "immigration" but "failure to keep infrastructure (housing etc) in step". You can hardly import 504,000 people (slightly less than the UK's 5th most populous city, Sheffield) and not build accommodation to match. Latest new builds total 204,000 still has a long way to go.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    Leon said:

    Russians executed civilians in Luhansk region, Ukraine. Publicly and demonstratively, for the whole world to see.

    I don’t understand why Ukraine isn’t given new tanks and missiles to punish this absolute evil. Russian evil.

    PHOTOGRAPHS IN TWEET

    https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1599309556823097345

    Castrated two of them as well, or so it looks. My god
    There’s a reason that the Ukrainians and those who’ve experienced the joy joys of the Russian occupation refer to the Russians as “orcs”.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited December 2022

    Russians executed civilians in Luhansk region, Ukraine. Publicly and demonstratively, for the whole world to see.

    I don’t understand why Ukraine isn’t given new tanks and missiles to punish this absolute evil. Russian evil.

    PHOTOGRAPHS IN TWEET

    https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1599309556823097345

    The translation of the signs in the comments is fucking way off.

    First one says, Traitor to the Lugansk People

    Second lot (including some dude who looks like he's had his cock cut off. LOL, I suppose and it explains Carlotta's interest), This Sends a Message to Traitors: Death.

    Though they use smersh rather than smert' for 'death' as a hat tip to the Red Army counter-intel unit of the GPW.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    edited December 2022

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    Easy, students. Let universities raise the fees on foreign students to make up for the difference.
    Might that not make UK Universities uncompetitive with Australia and other countries - such as Germany?

    https://monitor.icef.com/2022/10/germanys-foreign-enrolment-reaches-record-high-with-increase-of-8-in-2021-22/

    I think its daft including students in the immigration numbers in the first place - unless and until they switch to a work visa - which more of them are doing:

    https://thepienews.com/news/students-switch-skilled-worker-visa-arrival-uk/
    Universities are very much one of our export industries and need to be encouraged. People who graduate here and then work on have a very good prospect of being net contributors. Really don't have a problem with it.
    I agree - there has been a considerable crack down on the old "Language Schools" of old which flourished under Labour (that nasty Mrs May). I don't see the problem as "immigration" but "failure to keep infrastructure (housing etc) in step". You can hardly import 504,000 people (slightly less than the UK's 5th most populous city, Sheffield) and not build accommodation to match. Latest new builds total 204,000 still has a long way to go.
    Both Cambridge and Oxford were whining that some of their regular “language schools” have disappeared. It seems that organisations that spend actual money on tutors and equipment pay less for the venue than those that don’t.

    You’d have to have a heart of stone not to laugh.
  • "OK Boomer !"

    The generational antipathy is stark.

    Discrimination on the grounds of age, sex, race and sexuality is absolutely fine, as long as its the right kind of discrimination.

    That's why terms like Gammon, Karen, Boomer and Coconut are fine, but others are not.
  • Leon said:

    Russians executed civilians in Luhansk region, Ukraine. Publicly and demonstratively, for the whole world to see.

    I don’t understand why Ukraine isn’t given new tanks and missiles to punish this absolute evil. Russian evil.

    PHOTOGRAPHS IN TWEET

    https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1599309556823097345

    Castrated two of them as well, or so it looks. My god
    Lest we forget you want to appease these monsters.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Dura_Ace said:

    Russians executed civilians in Luhansk region, Ukraine. Publicly and demonstratively, for the whole world to see.

    I don’t understand why Ukraine isn’t given new tanks and missiles to punish this absolute evil. Russian evil.

    PHOTOGRAPHS IN TWEET

    https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1599309556823097345

    The translation of the signs in the comments is fucking way off.

    First one says, Traitor to the Lugansk People

    Second lot (including some dude who looks like he's had his cock cut off. LOL, I suppose and it explains Carlotta's interest), This Sends a Message to Traitors: Death.

    Though they use smersh rather than smert' for 'death' as a hat tip to the Red Army counter-intel unit of the GPW.
    You suppose wrong. This is not “LOL”
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Russians executed civilians in Luhansk region, Ukraine. Publicly and demonstratively, for the whole world to see.

    I don’t understand why Ukraine isn’t given new tanks and missiles to punish this absolute evil. Russian evil.

    PHOTOGRAPHS IN TWEET

    https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1599309556823097345

    The translation of the signs in the comments is fucking way off.

    First one says, Traitor to the Lugansk People

    Second lot (including some dude who looks like he's had his cock cut off. LOL, I suppose and it explains Carlotta's interest), This Sends a Message to Traitors: Death.

    Though they use smersh rather than smert' for 'death' as a hat tip to the Red Army counter-intel unit of the GPW.
    You suppose wrong. This is not “LOL”
    A Grammar Nazi complaining about the spelling and grammar on signs put up by people behaving like Nazis who claim to be running an De-Nazification Special Operation.

    Hmmmm.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    Easy, students. Let universities raise the fees on foreign students to make up for the difference.
    Every overseas student is £70,000 (over 3 years) or so to a Russell group uni. Removing them would remove £bns from the economy.
    That's not where the majority of students are going though, it's spurious "IT masters" 1 year courses which is a £12-15k 1 year visa and 2 years of overstaying until they get caught and deported.
  • Discussing math with ChatGPT feels like a slow descent into insanity.

    https://twitter.com/tzumaoli/status/1599307041436098561

    The WAN show had a feature on Leon's new ai chatbot, including reading out the sponsor links it generated so you can see what it gets right and wrong. Leon might be right that some jobs will be at risk but otoh the demise of proof-readers had more to do with newspapers saving money than with the rise of Grammarly.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luz82RG5PqA

    ETA and some jobs will be made easier. Perhaps PB veteran @SeanT will return once he sees that ChatGPT can get him past his writer's block.
    I like the quirk that if you ask it particular types of questions, it starts asking you ones back e.g. people have asked it questions in the style of jeopardy & it starts to quiz them.

    Imagine deploying this as customer service rep & it gets stuck in the loop of replying by asking you about how to go about fixing a boiler in response to you asking about getting somebody to fix your washing machine...
    There was a report somewhere that it had to be tweaked to stop it answering questions about bomb-making and other nefarious activities, much as the ai art packages are stopped from painting porn. It might reawaken philosophical debates about what it means to understand language and whether this or any AI does.
  • Yeah, maybe it’s only a 15 point lead, not 20….

    “I’d be very worried if I was Keir Starmer” says Conservative Chair Nadhim Zahawi, arguing that “his numbers are very soft” in the polling, despite Labour’s large lead. @RidgeOnSunday

    https://twitter.com/paulbranditv/status/1599324234374750208?
  • Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Great cartoon.

    Except for not being able to think of a synonym for ditto. Its repetition weakens the impact, as does the silence from the other boat.
    'Me too!' would have done, or is that now a reserved phrase?

    'Same here!'
    Moi aussi.

    Too French for a bunch of careerist British nati..er..patriots?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut. It also mentions polling with half wanting inheritance tax abolished and 2/3 no rise in it.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South.

    You're missing the point - I stressed Tory policy on inflating house prices in the SE. Ifd it weren't for that, your special pleading would be unnecessary.
    It is homeowners in the SE themselves who are resistant to building new homes on the greenbelt, see gains by the LDs in Chesham and Amersham and in local elections on a NIMBY agenda when local Tory councils have had plans to allow new developments in local plans
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    Dura_Ace said:

    Russians executed civilians in Luhansk region, Ukraine. Publicly and demonstratively, for the whole world to see.

    I don’t understand why Ukraine isn’t given new tanks and missiles to punish this absolute evil. Russian evil.

    PHOTOGRAPHS IN TWEET

    https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1599309556823097345

    The translation of the signs in the comments is fucking way off.

    First one says, Traitor to the Lugansk People

    Second lot (including some dude who looks like he's had his cock cut off. LOL, I suppose and it explains Carlotta's interest), This Sends a Message to Traitors: Death.

    Though they use smersh rather than smert' for 'death' as a hat tip to the Red Army counter-intel unit of the GPW.
    Your own translation of the second one is wrong. It says: "He gave information to the enemy".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    Students at some lesser universities, those with work permits if the jobs have not been offered to UK born workers and job seekers first.

    Asylum seekers too should be in genuine fear of persecution not just economic migrants
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    edited December 2022

    Discussing math with ChatGPT feels like a slow descent into insanity.

    https://twitter.com/tzumaoli/status/1599307041436098561

    The WAN show had a feature on Leon's new ai chatbot, including reading out the sponsor links it generated so you can see what it gets right and wrong. Leon might be right that some jobs will be at risk but otoh the demise of proof-readers had more to do with newspapers saving money than with the rise of Grammarly.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luz82RG5PqA

    ETA and some jobs will be made easier. Perhaps PB veteran @SeanT will return once he sees that ChatGPT can get him past his writer's block.
    I like the quirk that if you ask it particular types of questions, it starts asking you ones back e.g. people have asked it questions in the style of jeopardy & it starts to quiz them.

    Imagine deploying this as customer service rep & it gets stuck in the loop of replying by asking you about how to go about fixing a boiler in response to you asking about getting somebody to fix your washing machine...
    There was a report somewhere that it had to be tweaked to stop it answering questions about bomb-making and other nefarious activities, much as the ai art packages are stopped from painting porn. It might reawaken philosophical debates about what it means to understand language and whether this or any AI does.
    I’m thinking of writing a story when I retire from my flints

    ChatGPT is a really good brainstormer. Like a notably literate friend with infinite patience and zero personal ambition. It just sits there commenting on your ideas and nudging you with new ones. It doesn’t even require a cup of tea



  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Dura_Ace said:

    I saw the testicle headed curiosity Zahawi on Sky News telling people not to try for pay rises that match inflation. That tory commitment to a high wage economy didn't last long.

    I love his claim that "whether it's our military personnel that we've trained up, or a surge capacity - that we can actually make sure things like borders are safe and protected, and of course people's lives are not disrupted".

    As if they are actually going to be able to do anything other than waffling about buzz words to prevent disruption.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    Russians executed civilians in Luhansk region, Ukraine. Publicly and demonstratively, for the whole world to see.

    I don’t understand why Ukraine isn’t given new tanks and missiles to punish this absolute evil. Russian evil.

    PHOTOGRAPHS IN TWEET

    https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1599309556823097345

    The translation of the signs in the comments is fucking way off.

    First one says, Traitor to the Lugansk People

    Second lot (including some dude who looks like he's had his cock cut off. LOL, I suppose and it explains Carlotta's interest), This Sends a Message to Traitors: Death.

    Though they use smersh rather than smert' for 'death' as a hat tip to the Red Army counter-intel unit of the GPW.
    Your own translation of the second one is wrong. It says: "He gave information to the enemy".
    You're right. Combination of abysmal penmanship and wrong glasses.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406

    Yeah, maybe it’s only a 15 point lead, not 20….

    “I’d be very worried if I was Keir Starmer” says Conservative Chair Nadhim Zahawi, arguing that “his numbers are very soft” in the polling, despite Labour’s large lead. @RidgeOnSunday

    https://twitter.com/paulbranditv/status/1599324234374750208?

    World beating!
    For a charlatan talking utter bollocks across a range of topics, that is.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Leon said:

    Discussing math with ChatGPT feels like a slow descent into insanity.

    https://twitter.com/tzumaoli/status/1599307041436098561

    The WAN show had a feature on Leon's new ai chatbot, including reading out the sponsor links it generated so you can see what it gets right and wrong. Leon might be right that some jobs will be at risk but otoh the demise of proof-readers had more to do with newspapers saving money than with the rise of Grammarly.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luz82RG5PqA

    ETA and some jobs will be made easier. Perhaps PB veteran @SeanT will return once he sees that ChatGPT can get him past his writer's block.
    I like the quirk that if you ask it particular types of questions, it starts asking you ones back e.g. people have asked it questions in the style of jeopardy & it starts to quiz them.

    Imagine deploying this as customer service rep & it gets stuck in the loop of replying by asking you about how to go about fixing a boiler in response to you asking about getting somebody to fix your washing machine...
    There was a report somewhere that it had to be tweaked to stop it answering questions about bomb-making and other nefarious activities, much as the ai art packages are stopped from painting porn. It might reawaken philosophical debates about what it means to understand language and whether this or any AI does.
    I’m thinking of writing a story when I retire from my flints

    ChatGPT is a really good brainstormer. Like a notably literate friend with infinite patience and zero personal ambition. It just sits there commenting on your ideas and nudging you with new ones. It doesn’t even require a cup of tea



    The twist could be the 'AI' s a bunch of people in Chinese prison hospital filling their days while they wait for their organs to be sold on AliExpress.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I saw the testicle headed curiosity Zahawi on Sky News telling people not to try for pay rises that match inflation. That tory commitment to a high wage economy didn't last long.

    Unless it's dividends or bonuses it's inflationary and immoral.
    Or pensions.

    Thing is, the overall point is right; the events of the last few years have made the country significantly poorer.
    Quite a few someones are going to have to take the hit; the argument is more about who are the minority who might escape it.
    Liz Truss was right. We do need to focus on expanding the economy. We can't cut our way to growth.
    Which is why I’m more confident than ever in the tidy sum I’ve got on her for next PM.
    When she actually is, you’re going to be kicking yourself for treating her as a joke.
    I always bet heavily as an emotional hedge. If it happens I’m taking the holiday of a lifetime.
    In BFE she doesn't even make the field!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    edited December 2022
    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    I will be cooking the Christmas pud today (I know, I'm late). 8 hours on the hob. It is the first time I have ever considered how much that costs and it's not as if I can't afford it. Weird.

    Get yourself a pressure-cooker, 8 hours becomes 2.5 hours.
    When you buy one from the supermarket, and the packet says you can either steam it for a week on the hob or put it in the microwave for five minutes, it always seems like an easy choice to me.

    Anyhow, when the moment comes after a big Xmas dinner, no-one ever wants it anyway.
    Buy one? Where is your Christmas spirit? Has to be homemade. Next few weeks it will be mince pies and Stollens on the go.

    Know what you mean re after a big dinner though.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    IanB2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I saw the testicle headed curiosity Zahawi on Sky News telling people not to try for pay rises that match inflation. That tory commitment to a high wage economy didn't last long.

    Unless it's dividends or bonuses it's inflationary and immoral.
    Or pensions.

    Thing is, the overall point is right; the events of the last few years have made the country significantly poorer.
    Quite a few someones are going to have to take the hit; the argument is more about who are the minority who might escape it.
    Liz Truss was right. We do need to focus on expanding the economy. We can't cut our way to growth.
    Which is why I’m more confident than ever in the tidy sum I’ve got on her for next PM.
    When she actually is, you’re going to be kicking yourself for treating her as a joke.
    I always bet heavily as an emotional hedge. If it happens I’m taking the holiday of a lifetime.
    In BFE she doesn't even make the field!
    That's quite an indictment considering you can get odds on Ye being President.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    I will be cooking the Christmas pud today (I know, I'm late). 8 hours on the hob. It is the first time I have ever considered how much that costs and it's not as if I can't afford it. Weird.

    Get yourself a pressure-cooker, 8 hours becomes 2.5 hours.
    When you buy one from the supermarket, and the packet says you can either steam it for a week on the hob or put it in the microwave for five minutes, it always seems like an easy choice to me.

    Anyhow, when the moment comes after a big Xmas dinner, no-one ever wants it anyway.
    Buy one? Where is your Christmas spirit? Has to be homemade. Next few weeks it will be mince pies and Stollens on the go.

    Know what you mean re after a big dinner though.
    The great thing about leftover Christmas pudding is that you can slice it and have it fried for breakfast with fried potatoes (or leftover roasties, if such things exist) for the next few days.

    I buy a Christmas pudding, which I feel I can get away with after making the Christmas Cake.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited December 2022
    Leon said:

    Discussing math with ChatGPT feels like a slow descent into insanity.

    https://twitter.com/tzumaoli/status/1599307041436098561

    The WAN show had a feature on Leon's new ai chatbot, including reading out the sponsor links it generated so you can see what it gets right and wrong. Leon might be right that some jobs will be at risk but otoh the demise of proof-readers had more to do with newspapers saving money than with the rise of Grammarly.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luz82RG5PqA

    ETA and some jobs will be made easier. Perhaps PB veteran @SeanT will return once he sees that ChatGPT can get him past his writer's block.
    I like the quirk that if you ask it particular types of questions, it starts asking you ones back e.g. people have asked it questions in the style of jeopardy & it starts to quiz them.

    Imagine deploying this as customer service rep & it gets stuck in the loop of replying by asking you about how to go about fixing a boiler in response to you asking about getting somebody to fix your washing machine...
    There was a report somewhere that it had to be tweaked to stop it answering questions about bomb-making and other nefarious activities, much as the ai art packages are stopped from painting porn. It might reawaken philosophical debates about what it means to understand language and whether this or any AI does.
    I’m thinking of writing a story when I retire from my flints

    ChatGPT is a really good brainstormer. Like a notably literate friend with infinite patience and zero personal ambition. It just sits there commenting on your ideas and nudging you with new ones. It doesn’t even require a cup of tea



    The limitations of AI are shockingly apparent here. The way to make incest palatable to a mainstream audience is to make both of the participants really good looking. Brookside proved this beyond conjecture with the Nat and Georgia storyline.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/pensioners-will-better-workers-2024/

    And the Tories wonder why their poll ratings are in the toilet. They will get deservedly smashed to bits in 2024, I just hope Labour have the cojones to means test the state pension and close all defined benefit schemes across the public sector.

    That the Tories have boosted pensioners' incomes is hardly surprising, they are their core vote.

    However they have also increased the minimum wage too for the lowest earning workers. If average earners are not seeing much rise in wages that is more the fault of capitalism and big corporations than the Tories.

    It is capitalism which is concentrating a big rise in incomes and wages on a small elite ie in the City of London, Premiership footballers, chief executives and directors and tech entrepreneurs not the government. All the government can do is tax that elite more but that does not do much more for the average worker unless they work in the public sector and the government spends more on increasing their wages as their employer, as Labour would do in power
    I think you're wilfully ignoring the very large elephant in the room. Tory policies on house price inflation in the SE, and inheritance. That has a far greater and wider impact than a few top salaries.

    I recommended this piece a day or two back but it was at the end of a thread - it's worth reading, partly for the social observation. When something becomes as unspoken as defecatory habits, you know you have a problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/03/why-inheritance-is-the-dirty-secret-of-the-middle-classes-harder-to-talk-about-than-sex
    Without inheritance and parental assistance for deposits barely anyone in London and the South East would be able to buy a house on an average income. As that very article makes clear when May threatened to take that inheritance she lost the majority the Tories won in 2015 under Cameron and Osborne promising an inheritance tax cut.

    Failing to cut immigration and not building enough affordable houses is more the issue in terms of higher house prices in the South
    500,000 immigrants last year

    Yet farce focussed on the 20,000 or so crossing the channel - that’s the news story but it will do nothing for house prices which will continue to massively increase in price.
    I don't disagree, EU migration has fallen but non EU migration is at record levels and if the Tories do lose the next election failing to get that under control will be partly to blame, see also the rise in RefUK voteshare in recent polls
    Which migration would you reduce?

    Students?
    Ukrainian refugees?
    Hong Kong BNO Passport holders?
    Work permit holders?
    Students at some lesser universities, those with work permits if the jobs have not been offered to UK born workers and job seekers first.

    Asylum seekers too should be in genuine fear of persecution not just economic migrants
    A lot of student migration is even at non-university level, so that for sure should be stopped. Student dependents should also be curbed, unless the students themselves are at the very top end.

    Work migration should be limited to a number more like 35k than 26k. Family migration should have a higher earnings threshold. Asylum seekers should be limited to those from sexual, ethnic or religious minorities that will likely be unable to fit back into the dangerous country when the war is over. (E.g. like Jews in WW2).
  • dixiedean said:

    Yeah, maybe it’s only a 15 point lead, not 20….

    “I’d be very worried if I was Keir Starmer” says Conservative Chair Nadhim Zahawi, arguing that “his numbers are very soft” in the polling, despite Labour’s large lead. @RidgeOnSunday

    https://twitter.com/paulbranditv/status/1599324234374750208?

    World beating!
    For a charlatan talking utter bollocks across a range of topics, that is.
    Whilst that's true, Keir Starmer's support isn't built on very much.

    It's a big ask (particularly given the Conservatives will probably prefer to tear each other apart the moment they enter opposition) but, if they sort their shit out quickly, they could easily be outpolling Labour within 2 years of him taking office.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Discussing math with ChatGPT feels like a slow descent into insanity.

    https://twitter.com/tzumaoli/status/1599307041436098561

    The WAN show had a feature on Leon's new ai chatbot, including reading out the sponsor links it generated so you can see what it gets right and wrong. Leon might be right that some jobs will be at risk but otoh the demise of proof-readers had more to do with newspapers saving money than with the rise of Grammarly.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luz82RG5PqA

    ETA and some jobs will be made easier. Perhaps PB veteran @SeanT will return once he sees that ChatGPT can get him past his writer's block.
    I like the quirk that if you ask it particular types of questions, it starts asking you ones back e.g. people have asked it questions in the style of jeopardy & it starts to quiz them.

    Imagine deploying this as customer service rep & it gets stuck in the loop of replying by asking you about how to go about fixing a boiler in response to you asking about getting somebody to fix your washing machine...
    There was a report somewhere that it had to be tweaked to stop it answering questions about bomb-making and other nefarious activities, much as the ai art packages are stopped from painting porn. It might reawaken philosophical debates about what it means to understand language and whether this or any AI does.
    I’m thinking of writing a story when I retire from my flints

    ChatGPT is a really good brainstormer. Like a notably literate friend with infinite patience and zero personal ambition. It just sits there commenting on your ideas and nudging you with new ones. It doesn’t even require a cup of tea



    The limitations of AI are shockingly apparent here. The way to make incest palatable to a mainstream audience is to make both of the participants really good looking. Brookside proved this beyond conjecture with the Nat and Georgia storyline.
    Close My Eyes
  • OK, I posted my message at 17:53 Indian time, but when I look at the time it appears in PB, it says 17:23!
  • The age old ritual (120+ years and counting) of Labour making empty promises on Lords reform is made even more piquant by the fact that it's Labour peers gutting those promises faster than a turkey processing plant. Do your own jokes about turkeys not voting for Christmas.



    https://tinyurl.com/4uft5tuw



  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Imam definitely looks a bit like his uncle.

    Only... slimmer.
This discussion has been closed.