The MidTerms: The staggering amounts of money being spent – politicalbetting.com

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The MidTerms: The staggering amounts of money being spent – politicalbetting.com

I was very struck by the above table showing how much money has been spent on some of the Senate campaigns where voting takes place today.

Read the full story here

Omnium

1st

FrancisUrquhart

The secret of how Donald Trump plans to win in 2024

The answer is already becoming clear. He plans to be less belligerent, more forward-looking, with an increased focus on policy rather than rhetoric. It will be a more restrained Mr Trump in 2024.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/08/secret-how-donald-trump-plans-win-2024/

I just spat out of my coffee.....The Telegraph really is a joke of a newspaper these days. He literally repeated the same approach to Ron Desantis as he did with all the other candidates last time only last night.

Selebian

FPT

TOPPING said:

Pulpstar said:

Well contrary to the run of most opinions here I quite like Labour's ID idea tbh. Unless the Tories have the boats and hotels sorted (They probably won't) it's another tick for Starmer for me.

So it's present your papers before you check in to the Premier Inn?

Not sure that thrills me tbh.

Better than the present, where a lack of papers means you end up in a Britannia Hotel

Omnium

Is the hugely funded marginal battle worth it?

Selebian

FrancisUrquhart said:

The secret of how Donald Trump plans to win in 2024

The answer is already becoming clear. He plans to be less belligerent, more forward-looking, with an increased focus on policy rather than rhetoric. It will be a more restrained Mr Trump in 2024.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/08/secret-how-donald-trump-plans-win-2024/

I just spat out of my coffee.....The Telegraph really is a joke of a newspaper these days.

And Johnson is going to return as PM by applying himself more and no longer telling porkies!

Selebian

On topic: That starts to look like real money. No wonder the US has such a thriving creative industry if much of that goes on TV adverts. Given the quality of the TV ads I've seen, I guess the agencies pocket the money and use it to do more interesting things.

Alistair

It's a good job the Citizens United did not unleash a tidal wave of money.

FrancisUrquhart

Selebian said:

On topic: That starts to look like real money. No wonder the US has such a thriving creative industry if much of that goes on TV adverts. Given the quality of the TV ads I've seen, I guess the agencies pocket the money and use it to do more interesting things.

Tv Ads are pretty piss poor these days full stop e.g In US, the ads during the Super Bowl used to be hotly anticipated, past few years, complaints about how bland and uninteresting there were.

Have It.....

paulyork64

Omnium said:

Is the hugely funded marginal battle worth it?

Only if you win.

Pulpstar

FrancisUrquhart said:

The secret of how Donald Trump plans to win in 2024

The answer is already becoming clear. He plans to be less belligerent, more forward-looking, with an increased focus on policy rather than rhetoric. It will be a more restrained Mr Trump in 2024.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/08/secret-how-donald-trump-plans-win-2024/

I just spat out of my coffee.....The Telegraph really is a joke of a newspaper these days. He literally repeated the same approach to Ron Desantis as he did with all the other candidates last time only last night.

Well he's not wrong about Ron Desanctamonious

bondegezou

Selebian said:

On topic: That starts to look like real money. No wonder the US has such a thriving creative industry if much of that goes on TV adverts. Given the quality of the TV ads I've seen, I guess the agencies pocket the money and use it to do more interesting things.

This is what I always wonder. Where is that money going? Making the ads won't be the main costs. That will be buying advertising slots. So, ultimately, much of this bonanza goes to TV stations. So does that increase the quality of US TV shows?

BartholomewRoberts

TOPPING said:

MarqueeMark said:

Cookie said:

TOPPING said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

Driver said:

bondegezou said:

Driver said:

bondegezou said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

Many adverts do include improbably (according to the stats I have no doubt) diverse family groupings.

However, as with many things it may be that we are seeing an overshoot. From decades of few, or no, or comic non-white faces (I also understand that the non-white population was smaller) to plenty.

It is normalising by exposure a diverse population. So that if you live for example in an all-white village in Wiltshire you are not going to have a heart attack if you come up on a day trip to London and see non-white faces, many of them, on the tube.

One day, I hope not too far but I suspect very far into the future we will all be colour blind and the characters in adverts will be wholly random. But we are not there yet so I see no harm and a great deal of benefit in this activity.

You can normalise by exposure without such an egregious "overshoot".

Are you in favour of government regulation of who appears in adverts?

Why would you think I might be?

You’re complaining about the matter as if it’s something that should be controlled.

No, not at all. I dont think the government can do everything - nor do I think it should do everything that it can do.

I mean do you watch all TV adverts with such a keen critical eye. Where do you stand on the 8 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas issue?

I don't think it should be used to divert the conversation.

The serious point being why mixed race couples? Why not improbably white sheets, or the reality of vehicle leasing schemes, or the misrepresentation of just about any foodstuff compared with what you end up with if you buy it yourself.

If you are going to watch ads with your critical analyst hat on this is but one of many elements of the genre that you should be wondering about.

It's not just mixed race couples - I barely noticed it myself but when someone pointed it out it became obvious.

The problem (I've already said this) is that it gives a false picture of what the country is. It's not a significant problem in its own right, but if people have a false picture of what the country is, how can they ever understand its problems and potential solutions?

I think it is more normalising a view of what society could look like in the future. You are saying if it says we already are a melting pot why worry about race equality; I am saying it shows an end state which is normal and which we are on a non-threatening road to.

You are in fact counselling more and more active work to stamp out racially-motivated bias. Which I applaud. But I'm not thinking of those who are worried that we aren't doing enough about this, I am thinking of those for whom a role model of a mixed race family might alter or assuage their thinking.

I think the point with adverts and panel shows is that they clearly are discriminating - they are starting from a position of 'we need a black actor for this' or 'we need an ethnic minority in this line up'.
Now you might be able to justify that on artistic merits, and under some circumstances I'd agree. If the advert called, for example, for someone playing Nelson Mandela - then yes, you'd want a black actor, just as you'd want a white actor for someone playing, say, Nelson. But the number of times when artistic circumstances call for someone of a specific ethnicity seem to fall far short of the number of times where we can infer that ethnicity has been the key factor in casting. We can't know which those occasions are, of course, but we know that it must happen a lot.

Watched "See How They Run", loosely based around The Mousetrap. Set in the 50's, there were more ethnic minority actors appearing than would have been in the population back then, but hey, no biggy.

However, when Agatha Christie's husband, Sir Max Edgar Lucien Mallowan CBE, a man as white as the driven snow, is portrayed by an actor whose parents were both Tanzanian, you do kinda ask "Why would you take liberties with the ethnicity of an actual person?" We all accept that blacking up isn't acceptable today. We can all agree that casting David Jason as Nelson Mandela would a line that would never be crossed. So why doesn't that respect go both ways?

Yes it was dreadful that Jamie Foxx played Ray Charles despite not being blind.

Its fun to know that sometimes that happens the other way around, what about when a blind actor plays a non-blind character?

Stephanie Beatriz who plays Rosa Diaz in Brooklyn 99 does her acting without either glasses or contacts but is legally blind without them.

SandyRentool

On topic:

What a waste of money. They could have given it to sick kiddies.

Or better still, to environmental charities.

bondegezou

BartholomewRoberts said:

TOPPING said:

MarqueeMark said:

Cookie said:

TOPPING said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

Driver said:

bondegezou said:

Driver said:

bondegezou said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

Many adverts do include improbably (according to the stats I have no doubt) diverse family groupings.

However, as with many things it may be that we are seeing an overshoot. From decades of few, or no, or comic non-white faces (I also understand that the non-white population was smaller) to plenty.

It is normalising by exposure a diverse population. So that if you live for example in an all-white village in Wiltshire you are not going to have a heart attack if you come up on a day trip to London and see non-white faces, many of them, on the tube.

One day, I hope not too far but I suspect very far into the future we will all be colour blind and the characters in adverts will be wholly random. But we are not there yet so I see no harm and a great deal of benefit in this activity.

You can normalise by exposure without such an egregious "overshoot".

Are you in favour of government regulation of who appears in adverts?

Why would you think I might be?

You’re complaining about the matter as if it’s something that should be controlled.

No, not at all. I dont think the government can do everything - nor do I think it should do everything that it can do.

I mean do you watch all TV adverts with such a keen critical eye. Where do you stand on the 8 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas issue?

I don't think it should be used to divert the conversation.

The serious point being why mixed race couples? Why not improbably white sheets, or the reality of vehicle leasing schemes, or the misrepresentation of just about any foodstuff compared with what you end up with if you buy it yourself.

If you are going to watch ads with your critical analyst hat on this is but one of many elements of the genre that you should be wondering about.

It's not just mixed race couples - I barely noticed it myself but when someone pointed it out it became obvious.

The problem (I've already said this) is that it gives a false picture of what the country is. It's not a significant problem in its own right, but if people have a false picture of what the country is, how can they ever understand its problems and potential solutions?

I think it is more normalising a view of what society could look like in the future. You are saying if it says we already are a melting pot why worry about race equality; I am saying it shows an end state which is normal and which we are on a non-threatening road to.

You are in fact counselling more and more active work to stamp out racially-motivated bias. Which I applaud. But I'm not thinking of those who are worried that we aren't doing enough about this, I am thinking of those for whom a role model of a mixed race family might alter or assuage their thinking.

I think the point with adverts and panel shows is that they clearly are discriminating - they are starting from a position of 'we need a black actor for this' or 'we need an ethnic minority in this line up'.
Now you might be able to justify that on artistic merits, and under some circumstances I'd agree. If the advert called, for example, for someone playing Nelson Mandela - then yes, you'd want a black actor, just as you'd want a white actor for someone playing, say, Nelson. But the number of times when artistic circumstances call for someone of a specific ethnicity seem to fall far short of the number of times where we can infer that ethnicity has been the key factor in casting. We can't know which those occasions are, of course, but we know that it must happen a lot.

Watched "See How They Run", loosely based around The Mousetrap. Set in the 50's, there were more ethnic minority actors appearing than would have been in the population back then, but hey, no biggy.

However, when Agatha Christie's husband, Sir Max Edgar Lucien Mallowan CBE, a man as white as the driven snow, is portrayed by an actor whose parents were both Tanzanian, you do kinda ask "Why would you take liberties with the ethnicity of an actual person?" We all accept that blacking up isn't acceptable today. We can all agree that casting David Jason as Nelson Mandela would a line that would never be crossed. So why doesn't that respect go both ways?

Yes it was dreadful that Jamie Foxx played Ray Charles despite not being blind.

Its fun to know that sometimes that happens the other way around, what about when a blind actor plays a non-blind character?

Stephanie Beatriz who plays Rosa Diaz in Brooklyn 99 does her acting without either glasses or contacts but is legally blind without them.

Similar to Katy Manning in Dr Who.

Alistair

Thousands of invalodd mail ballots in Philly https://vote.phila.gov/news/2022/11/05/ballots-administratively-determined-to-have-no-secrecy-envelope-or-no-signature-no-date-or-a-potentially-incorrect-date-on-return-envelope/

This will be repeated across the state.

Driver

Alistair said:

It's a good job the Citizens United did not unleash a tidal wave of money.

Another nonsensical SCOTUS decision.

Alistair

Commiserations to any crypto degenerates on here holding FTT.

Down a mere 33% today.

Anabobazina

Driver said:

Anabobazina said:

I feel as a lib-lab-lib-lib I should necessarily be against ID cards, but I struggle to see the philosophical difference between them and driving licences / passports – which are de facto ID cards absent, er, ID cards.

A driving licence is a licence to drive.

An ID card is - or can be - a licence to exist.

A passport-driving-licence-bill-from-the-gas-board is effectively a licence to exist nowadays

(not that I'm pro ID cards, partic, just can't really see much difference)

DecrepiterJohnL

Alistair said:

Thousands of invalodd mail ballots in Philly https://vote.phila.gov/news/2022/11/05/ballots-administratively-determined-to-have-no-secrecy-envelope-or-no-signature-no-date-or-a-potentially-incorrect-date-on-return-envelope/

This will be repeated across the state.

Aiui the idea is the named voters (no harvesting, please) can have another try.

DecrepiterJohnL

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

FrancisUrquhart

Alistair said:

Commiserations to any crypto degenerates on here holding FTT.

Down a mere 33% today.

I presume there will be crypto bros shouting "buy the dip"....

Anabobazina

Er, what? 0.3 billion spent on the Pennsylvanian senate race? Assume there is an order of magnitude error there or I am reading it wrong??

Anabobazina

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

PCs really are shit

Sandpit

Alistair said:

It's a good job the Citizens United did not unleash a tidal wave of money.

Yes, that was a silly Supreme Court decision. Very difficult to reverse now though, there’s serious amounts of money and lots of people benefitting from it, starting with the media companies who inflate ad rates around elections.

glw

Selebian said:

And Johnson is going to return as PM by applying himself more and no longer telling porkies!

The idiots insisting that "Boris has changed" when he was having a holiday whilst Parliament was sitting was fun.

MarqueeMark

SandyRentool said:

On topic:

What a waste of money. They could have given it to sick kiddies.

Or better still, to environmental charities.

Or just $10 to each voter....

Anabobazina

Selebian said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

The secret of how Donald Trump plans to win in 2024

The answer is already becoming clear. He plans to be less belligerent, more forward-looking, with an increased focus on policy rather than rhetoric. It will be a more restrained Mr Trump in 2024.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/08/secret-how-donald-trump-plans-win-2024/

I just spat out of my coffee.....The Telegraph really is a joke of a newspaper these days.

And Johnson is going to return as PM by applying himself more and no longer telling porkies!

Sir Gavvo Williamson is gonna be polite and competent

DecrepiterJohnL

All the US midterm-related lies to expect when you're electing
Don't like the results? The election must have been rigged
https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/07/us_midterms_misinformation/

Summary: misinformation about unreliable voting machines is spread on social media; comes mainly from American right-wingers, then from Russia; intensity should be reduced because Trump is not standing.

Sandpit

Anabobazina said:

Er, what? 0.3 billion spent on the Pennsylvanian senate race? Assume there is an order of magnitude error there or I am reading it wrong??

Yep. $0.3 BILLION.

That’s John Fetterman and Mehmut Oz, possibly the two most unsuitable candidates up for election today, and all the polls have nothing between them.

Scott_xP

Not getting sacked today then...

Gavin Williamson's responsibilities finally appear on the Cabinet Office website. https://twitter.com/JackElsom/status/1590004133620482048/photo/1

DecrepiterJohnL

glw said:

Selebian said:

And Johnson is going to return as PM by applying himself more and no longer telling porkies!

The idiots insisting that "Boris has changed" when he was having a holiday whilst Parliament was sitting was fun.

Boris's third holiday in as many months, which is surely the most industrious he's been.

Anabobazina

Alistair said:

Thousands of invalodd mail ballots in Philly https://vote.phila.gov/news/2022/11/05/ballots-administratively-determined-to-have-no-secrecy-envelope-or-no-signature-no-date-or-a-potentially-incorrect-date-on-return-envelope/

This will be repeated across the state.

Why do I get the feeling that we are are going to be seeing lots of footage of virgins with assault rifles later this week?

Sandpit

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

I’ve had a few upgrading themselves to W11 over the past few weeks. It’s possible to put them back to W10 again within 10 days, but takes hours to do it.

Taz

FrancisUrquhart said:

Alistair said:

Commiserations to any crypto degenerates on here holding FTT.

Down a mere 33% today.

I presume there will be crypto bros shouting "buy the dip"....

The HODL brigade out in full force

Alistair

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Alistair said:

Thousands of invalodd mail ballots in Philly https://vote.phila.gov/news/2022/11/05/ballots-administratively-determined-to-have-no-secrecy-envelope-or-no-signature-no-date-or-a-potentially-incorrect-date-on-return-envelope/

This will be repeated across the state.

Aiui the idea is the named voters (no harvesting, please) can have another try.

Indeed, what percentage do you think will?

MarqueeMark

bondegezou said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

TOPPING said:

MarqueeMark said:

Cookie said:

TOPPING said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

Driver said:

bondegezou said:

Driver said:

bondegezou said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

Many adverts do include improbably (according to the stats I have no doubt) diverse family groupings.

However, as with many things it may be that we are seeing an overshoot. From decades of few, or no, or comic non-white faces (I also understand that the non-white population was smaller) to plenty.

It is normalising by exposure a diverse population. So that if you live for example in an all-white village in Wiltshire you are not going to have a heart attack if you come up on a day trip to London and see non-white faces, many of them, on the tube.

One day, I hope not too far but I suspect very far into the future we will all be colour blind and the characters in adverts will be wholly random. But we are not there yet so I see no harm and a great deal of benefit in this activity.

You can normalise by exposure without such an egregious "overshoot".

Are you in favour of government regulation of who appears in adverts?

Why would you think I might be?

You’re complaining about the matter as if it’s something that should be controlled.

No, not at all. I dont think the government can do everything - nor do I think it should do everything that it can do.

I mean do you watch all TV adverts with such a keen critical eye. Where do you stand on the 8 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas issue?

I don't think it should be used to divert the conversation.

The serious point being why mixed race couples? Why not improbably white sheets, or the reality of vehicle leasing schemes, or the misrepresentation of just about any foodstuff compared with what you end up with if you buy it yourself.

If you are going to watch ads with your critical analyst hat on this is but one of many elements of the genre that you should be wondering about.

It's not just mixed race couples - I barely noticed it myself but when someone pointed it out it became obvious.

The problem (I've already said this) is that it gives a false picture of what the country is. It's not a significant problem in its own right, but if people have a false picture of what the country is, how can they ever understand its problems and potential solutions?

I think it is more normalising a view of what society could look like in the future. You are saying if it says we already are a melting pot why worry about race equality; I am saying it shows an end state which is normal and which we are on a non-threatening road to.

You are in fact counselling more and more active work to stamp out racially-motivated bias. Which I applaud. But I'm not thinking of those who are worried that we aren't doing enough about this, I am thinking of those for whom a role model of a mixed race family might alter or assuage their thinking.

I think the point with adverts and panel shows is that they clearly are discriminating - they are starting from a position of 'we need a black actor for this' or 'we need an ethnic minority in this line up'.
Now you might be able to justify that on artistic merits, and under some circumstances I'd agree. If the advert called, for example, for someone playing Nelson Mandela - then yes, you'd want a black actor, just as you'd want a white actor for someone playing, say, Nelson. But the number of times when artistic circumstances call for someone of a specific ethnicity seem to fall far short of the number of times where we can infer that ethnicity has been the key factor in casting. We can't know which those occasions are, of course, but we know that it must happen a lot.

Watched "See How They Run", loosely based around The Mousetrap. Set in the 50's, there were more ethnic minority actors appearing than would have been in the population back then, but hey, no biggy.

However, when Agatha Christie's husband, Sir Max Edgar Lucien Mallowan CBE, a man as white as the driven snow, is portrayed by an actor whose parents were both Tanzanian, you do kinda ask "Why would you take liberties with the ethnicity of an actual person?" We all accept that blacking up isn't acceptable today. We can all agree that casting David Jason as Nelson Mandela would a line that would never be crossed. So why doesn't that respect go both ways?

Yes it was dreadful that Jamie Foxx played Ray Charles despite not being blind.

Its fun to know that sometimes that happens the other way around, what about when a blind actor plays a non-blind character?

Stephanie Beatriz who plays Rosa Diaz in Brooklyn 99 does her acting without either glasses or contacts but is legally blind without them.

Similar to Katy Manning in Dr Who.

Once ran into a tree whilst filming Dr Who and knocked herself unconscious.

"Once I tried to take the wrong children home from school!"

Stuartinromford

Sandpit said:

Anabobazina said:

Er, what? 0.3 billion spent on the Pennsylvanian senate race? Assume there is an order of magnitude error there or I am reading it wrong??

Yep. $0.3 BILLION.

That’s John Fetterman and Mehmut Oz, possibly the two most unsuitable candidates up for election today, and all the polls have nothing between them.

And then the poor sods spend most of their time in office on phone banks to bring in the money to remain in office.

There has to be a better way.

Northern_Al

Scott_xP said:

Not getting sacked today then...

Gavin Williamson's responsibilities finally appear on the Cabinet Office website. https://twitter.com/JackElsom/status/1590004133620482048/photo/1

Just had a look. That's a completely made-up job of trivia, isn't it? None of it will need replacing when he's gone.

DecrepiterJohnL

Sandpit said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

I’ve had a few upgrading themselves to W11 over the past few weeks. It’s possible to put them back to W10 again within 10 days, but takes hours to do it.

The upgrade to 11 will have happened to a lot of users already without their noticing anything apart from some icons moving from bottom-left to bottom-middle.

Anabobazina

Sandpit said:

Anabobazina said:

Er, what? 0.3 billion spent on the Pennsylvanian senate race? Assume there is an order of magnitude error there or I am reading it wrong??

Yep. $0.3 BILLION.

That’s John Fetterman and Mehmut Oz, possibly the two most unsuitable candidates up for election today, and all the polls have nothing between them.

Jesus wept

Big_G_NorthWales

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

Taz

bondegezou said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

TOPPING said:

MarqueeMark said:

Cookie said:

TOPPING said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

Driver said:

bondegezou said:

Driver said:

bondegezou said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

Many adverts do include improbably (according to the stats I have no doubt) diverse family groupings.

However, as with many things it may be that we are seeing an overshoot. From decades of few, or no, or comic non-white faces (I also understand that the non-white population was smaller) to plenty.

It is normalising by exposure a diverse population. So that if you live for example in an all-white village in Wiltshire you are not going to have a heart attack if you come up on a day trip to London and see non-white faces, many of them, on the tube.

One day, I hope not too far but I suspect very far into the future we will all be colour blind and the characters in adverts will be wholly random. But we are not there yet so I see no harm and a great deal of benefit in this activity.

You can normalise by exposure without such an egregious "overshoot".

Are you in favour of government regulation of who appears in adverts?

Why would you think I might be?

You’re complaining about the matter as if it’s something that should be controlled.

No, not at all. I dont think the government can do everything - nor do I think it should do everything that it can do.

I mean do you watch all TV adverts with such a keen critical eye. Where do you stand on the 8 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas issue?

I don't think it should be used to divert the conversation.

The serious point being why mixed race couples? Why not improbably white sheets, or the reality of vehicle leasing schemes, or the misrepresentation of just about any foodstuff compared with what you end up with if you buy it yourself.

If you are going to watch ads with your critical analyst hat on this is but one of many elements of the genre that you should be wondering about.

It's not just mixed race couples - I barely noticed it myself but when someone pointed it out it became obvious.

The problem (I've already said this) is that it gives a false picture of what the country is. It's not a significant problem in its own right, but if people have a false picture of what the country is, how can they ever understand its problems and potential solutions?

I think it is more normalising a view of what society could look like in the future. You are saying if it says we already are a melting pot why worry about race equality; I am saying it shows an end state which is normal and which we are on a non-threatening road to.

You are in fact counselling more and more active work to stamp out racially-motivated bias. Which I applaud. But I'm not thinking of those who are worried that we aren't doing enough about this, I am thinking of those for whom a role model of a mixed race family might alter or assuage their thinking.

I think the point with adverts and panel shows is that they clearly are discriminating - they are starting from a position of 'we need a black actor for this' or 'we need an ethnic minority in this line up'.
Now you might be able to justify that on artistic merits, and under some circumstances I'd agree. If the advert called, for example, for someone playing Nelson Mandela - then yes, you'd want a black actor, just as you'd want a white actor for someone playing, say, Nelson. But the number of times when artistic circumstances call for someone of a specific ethnicity seem to fall far short of the number of times where we can infer that ethnicity has been the key factor in casting. We can't know which those occasions are, of course, but we know that it must happen a lot.

Watched "See How They Run", loosely based around The Mousetrap. Set in the 50's, there were more ethnic minority actors appearing than would have been in the population back then, but hey, no biggy.

However, when Agatha Christie's husband, Sir Max Edgar Lucien Mallowan CBE, a man as white as the driven snow, is portrayed by an actor whose parents were both Tanzanian, you do kinda ask "Why would you take liberties with the ethnicity of an actual person?" We all accept that blacking up isn't acceptable today. We can all agree that casting David Jason as Nelson Mandela would a line that would never be crossed. So why doesn't that respect go both ways?

Yes it was dreadful that Jamie Foxx played Ray Charles despite not being blind.

Its fun to know that sometimes that happens the other way around, what about when a blind actor plays a non-blind character?

Stephanie Beatriz who plays Rosa Diaz in Brooklyn 99 does her acting without either glasses or contacts but is legally blind without them.

Similar to Katy Manning in Dr Who.

Acting in inverted commas for her early stories.

DecrepiterJohnL

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

It will be interesting to see if Suella Braverman was instrumental in any Anglo-French boats deal, as a Sorbonne-educated lawyer.

DecrepiterJohnL

Northern_Al said:

Scott_xP said:

Not getting sacked today then...

Gavin Williamson's responsibilities finally appear on the Cabinet Office website. https://twitter.com/JackElsom/status/1590004133620482048/photo/1

Just had a look. That's a completely made-up job of trivia, isn't it? None of it will need replacing when he's gone.

It is hard to see any duties there that make it necessary for Williamson to attend Cabinet.
https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers/minister-of-state-minister-without-portfolio--2

TheValiant

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

I don't mind the latter too much, but why can't that be EFTA+ or EEA?
Isn't that what these sort of are anyway?

In fact, is ANY country in just 'EFTA' without also being in the EEA or having an additional agreement with the EU anyway (There's only four, three are in EEA, and the Swiss have additional treaties with the EU).

IanB2

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

Hopefully, on both counts.

Despite my concerns at Sunak’s ideology, it is of considerable relief that we do at last seem to have a grown up in charge. Truss and Johnson clearly weren’t, and May should have been, but wasn’t, because she was held hostage by the nutters.

Scott_xP

IanB2 said:

Despite my concerns at Sunak’s ideology, it is of considerable relief that we do at last seem to have a grown up in charge. Truss and Johnson clearly weren’t, and May should have been, but wasn’t, because she was held hostage by the nutters.

Rishi appointed the nutters to cabinet

Scott_xP

NEW: The UK and EU are close to a major breakthrough in their talks over the Northern Ireland Protocol, with the EU beginning tests on the UK's live trade database which tracks goods moving from mainland Britain to N.Ireland 1/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-08/uk-and-eu-are-close-to-breakthrough-in-long-running-brexit-spat

Sandpit

Scott_xP said:

NEW: The UK and EU are close to a major breakthrough in their talks over the Northern Ireland Protocol, with the EU beginning tests on the UK's live trade database which tracks goods moving from mainland Britain to N.Ireland 1/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-08/uk-and-eu-are-close-to-breakthrough-in-long-running-brexit-spat

Finally an outbreak of common sense?

StillWaters

Anabobazina said:

Driver said:

Anabobazina said:

I feel as a lib-lab-lib-lib I should necessarily be against ID cards, but I struggle to see the philosophical difference between them and driving licences / passports – which are de facto ID cards absent, er, ID cards.

A driving licence is a licence to drive.

An ID card is - or can be - a licence to exist.

A passport-driving-licence-bill-from-the-gas-board is effectively a licence to exist nowadays

(not that I'm pro ID cards, partic, just can't really see much difference)

The issue isn’t a dumb ID card.

It was the government using it as a Trojan horse to link all our data and give everyone and her grandmother access to it

Big_G_NorthWales

Scott_xP said:

NEW: The UK and EU are close to a major breakthrough in their talks over the Northern Ireland Protocol, with the EU beginning tests on the UK's live trade database which tracks goods moving from mainland Britain to N.Ireland 1/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-08/uk-and-eu-are-close-to-breakthrough-in-long-running-brexit-spat

Got there before you, (3.41 pm) and this will been an important moment and hopefully herald closer relationships with the EU in the future

Big_G_NorthWales

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

It will be interesting to see if Suella Braverman was instrumental in any Anglo-French boats deal, as a Sorbonne-educated lawyer.

She is fluent in French and the flow of migrants has greatly reduced to the weather and sea conditions

Mind you, she is still a very poor HS

Anabobazina

....

logical_song

Sandpit said:

Anabobazina said:

Er, what? 0.3 billion spent on the Pennsylvanian senate race? Assume there is an order of magnitude error there or I am reading it wrong??

Yep. $0.3 BILLION.

That’s John Fetterman and Mehmut Oz, possibly the two most unsuitable candidates up for election today, and all the polls have nothing between them.

Hershell Walker must be more unsuitable than either.

Pulpstar

Lol the steal narrative is back on like Donkey Kong in Maricopa.

JosiasJessop

Anabobazina said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

PCs really are shit

I love this sort of comment, as it shows people who are utterly clueless about computers.

BartholomewRoberts

JosiasJessop said:

Anabobazina said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

PCs really are shit

I love this sort of comment, as it shows people who are utterly clueless about computers.

Or someone really invested in @Cyclefree 's thoughts on the Metropolitan Police.

Big_G_NorthWales

TheValiant said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

I don't mind the latter too much, but why can't that be EFTA+ or EEA?
Isn't that what these sort of are anyway?

In fact, is ANY country in just 'EFTA' without also being in the EEA or having an additional agreement with the EU anyway (There's only four, three are in EEA, and the Swiss have additional treaties with the EU).

I am not an expert on this but Truss did attend Macron's inaugural meeting with 44 nations include EU ones, with the outer nations including not only ourselves, but Norway, Turkey , Ukraine and others

The next meeting is arranged to take place in London

MattW

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

When do we get the result of the investigation into the alleged bullying by Williamson? Won't due process take a number of months?

If I have understood this correctly, I'm still slightly bemused by a Chief Whip complaining about bullying. Isn't that what they exist to do themselves?

And if the report I have seen in the Guardian documents the whole thing, such an allegation now looks to me at least in part like revenge taken cold - which dissension is perhaps more worrying for the Tories than the thing itself.

"Vile" and "threatening" seems a little overegged - he just seems pissed off, and I can't see anything that can be called "misogynistic". Unless there is a claim that a theoretical man in the same position would not have had the same reaction.

I've not commented on other party's reactions, since they would say what they are saying regardless of what actually happened.

I'm going off these reports:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/08/gavin-williamson-under-growing-pressure-over-bullying-accusations
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/05/gavin-williamson-faces-inquiry-over-abusive-messages-to-wendy-morton
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/04/rishi-sunak-under-pressure-over-gavin-williamson-vile-messages-to-wendy-morton

Driver

JosiasJessop said:

Anabobazina said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

PCs really are shit

I love this sort of comment, as it shows people who are utterly clueless about computers.

PEBKAC...

Andy_JS

538 now giving the GOP a 59% chance of winning control of the Senate.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-election-forecast/senate/

JosiasJessop

Tp be clear: Windows is amazing. Getting a system that runs on such a massive variety of hardware, including legacy stuff, with so few problems is a miracle. And to make it fairly user-friendly as well. This matters, as without such capabilities we would have a number of closed, walled gardens that are much more expensive.

Apple has it easy; by controlling the hardware, you fantastically reduce the number of combinations you need to support.

Without Windows, the world would be much poorer.

kinabalu

BartholomewRoberts said:

JosiasJessop said:

Anabobazina said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

PCs really are shit

I love this sort of comment, as it shows people who are utterly clueless about computers.

Or someone really invested in @Cyclefree 's thoughts on the Metropolitan Police.

She has new wheels now.

MattW

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

It will be interesting to see if Suella Braverman was instrumental in any Anglo-French boats deal, as a Sorbonne-educated lawyer.

She is fluent in French and the flow of migrants has greatly reduced to the weather and sea conditions

Mind you, she is still a very poor HS

I still don't understand why the Albania migration should be such a mess. It was summer 2021 when Priti Patel was playing a Voluntary trumpeting her new bilateral agreements that would fix it and how wonderful they were.

Are we back to the basically broken system unable to function, and lawyers who exist to gum it all up using the process as a weapon? In which case the fix is a reformed system, rather than borderline racist ranting about a different question - 'Albanian Criminals' as a diversionary tactic from a useless HS.

(I have not been following this very closely.)

Ishmael_Z

JosiasJessop said:

Anabobazina said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

PCs really are shit

I love this sort of comment, as it shows people who are utterly clueless about computers.

Why? Is there something good about computers inconveniently rebooting?

You are harking back to the glory days of 30 years ago when people like you knew about computers and no one else did. Those days are gone.

Big_G_NorthWales

MattW said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

When do we get the result of the investigation into the alleged bullying by Williamson?

If I have understood this correctly, I'm still slightly bemused by a Chief Whip complaining about bullying. Isn't that what they exist to do themselves?

And if the report I have seen in the Guardian documents the whole thing, such an allegation now looks to me at least in part like revenge taken cold - which dissension is perhaps more worrying for the Tories than the thing itself.

"Vile" and "threatening" seems a little overegged - he just seems pissed off, and I can't see anything that can be called "misogynistic". Unless there is a claim that a theoretical man in the same position would not have had the same reaction.

I've not commented on other party's reactions, since they would say what they are saying regardless of what actually happened.

I'm going off these reports:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/08/gavin-williamson-under-growing-pressure-over-bullying-accusations
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/05/gavin-williamson-faces-inquiry-over-abusive-messages-to-wendy-morton
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/04/rishi-sunak-under-pressure-over-gavin-williamson-vile-messages-to-wendy-morton

I cannot see any mitigation for Williamson but everyone, even him, are permitted due process

There is an irony in that is reported that in 2006 Wendy Morton and 5 other conservative councillors were found guilty of bullying themselves apparently

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1078280.councillors-resign-following-row-swearing-chamber/

DJ41

FrancisUrquhart said:

The secret of how Donald Trump plans to win in 2024

The answer is already becoming clear. He plans to be less belligerent, more forward-looking, with an increased focus on policy rather than rhetoric. It will be a more restrained Mr Trump in 2024.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/08/secret-how-donald-trump-plans-win-2024/

I just spat out of my coffee.....The Telegraph really is a joke of a newspaper these days. He literally repeated the same approach to Ron Desantis as he did with all the other candidates last time only last night.

Nick Allen bases it all on what Kellyanne Conway says.

This bit was unusual for any mainstream newspaper:

"The former president then went on to tell a story in which he himself had come off second best. 'That's self-deprecating, I hate to admit it...' he smiled. In previous elections Mr Trump tended not to tell self-deprecating stories."

So what actually was the supposedly self-deprecating story, then? Why doesn't Allen say?

When I started reading your post, @FrancisUrquhart, I thought it was what you were saying, not the Torygraph, and I thought "Hmm, well if FU is right then Trump's opponents should logically adopt a strategy of baiting the hell out of him". But, as you say, it's obviously bullsh*t.

It's probably no more than a hook for Kellyanne's book.

Is Kellyanne still shacked up with George Conway? George made a good effort in 2020. The Lincoln Project's videos were superb.

The Conways' daughter Claudia made a good contribution during the election campaign too. (Note: I think she is cool but absolutely NOT in the sense that Leon might.) That said, I dug Kellyanne telling her in a fury "You're lucky your mother's pro-life!"

BartholomewRoberts

Ishmael_Z said:

JosiasJessop said:

Anabobazina said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

PCs really are shit

I love this sort of comment, as it shows people who are utterly clueless about computers.

Why? Is there something good about computers inconveniently rebooting?

You are harking back to the glory days of 30 years ago when people like you knew about computers and no one else did. Those days are gone.

Inconvenient, unscheduled rebooting seems to be a thing dating back about 25 years ago. Hasn't really been an issue with Windows, unless you have a hardware failure, since XP.

JosiasJessop

Ishmael_Z said:

JosiasJessop said:

Anabobazina said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

PCs really are shit

I love this sort of comment, as it shows people who are utterly clueless about computers.

Why? Is there something good about computers inconveniently rebooting?

You are harking back to the glory days of 30 years ago when people like you knew about computers and no one else did. Those days are gone.

Computers often need to reboot if they get updated. Yes, even Apple devices.

Driver

.

Ishmael_Z said:

JosiasJessop said:

Anabobazina said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

PCs really are shit

I love this sort of comment, as it shows people who are utterly clueless about computers.

Why? Is there something good about computers inconveniently rebooting?

You are harking back to the glory days of 30 years ago when people like you knew about computers and no one else did. Those days are gone.

I've never had Windows Update inconveniently reboot. It asks me when it should reboot...

TimS

An interesting take on the US political situation and the issue of disinformation and misinformation:

https://wisdomofcrowds.live/lies-damned-lies-and-disinformation/

TLDR: people in democracies have always used spin and rhetoric, the focus on misinformation, foul play and the validity of elections is stopping parties from going through the necessary reflection and course correction after each defeat.

rcs1000

bondegezou said:

Selebian said:

On topic: That starts to look like real money. No wonder the US has such a thriving creative industry if much of that goes on TV adverts. Given the quality of the TV ads I've seen, I guess the agencies pocket the money and use it to do more interesting things.

This is what I always wonder. Where is that money going? Making the ads won't be the main costs. That will be buying advertising slots. So, ultimately, much of this bonanza goes to TV stations. So does that increase the quality of US TV shows?

I was in Iowa three years ago, as the Democratic Primary was just heating up.

Watching TV in the bar, literally every single advert was for a candidate.

It was insane.

My business is in Arizona. During the 2020 election, the price of YouTube advertising in the final weeks was about 10x higher than normal levels. We had to pull back to zero.

StuartDickson

Staff 'moved after serious radiation breach' at Trident nuclear base

https://twitter.com/scottishsun/status/1589898505564426240?s=46&t=42yyP7SrdXrd6oh9uqQchw

williamglenn

JosiasJessop said:

Ishmael_Z said:

JosiasJessop said:

Anabobazina said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

PCs really are shit

I love this sort of comment, as it shows people who are utterly clueless about computers.

Why? Is there something good about computers inconveniently rebooting?

You are harking back to the glory days of 30 years ago when people like you knew about computers and no one else did. Those days are gone.

Computers often need to reboot if they get updated. Yes, even Apple devices.

Apple devices also conveniently degrade the battery after an update, to remind you that it's time to buy new hardware.

kinabalu

logical_song said:

Sandpit said:

Anabobazina said:

Er, what? 0.3 billion spent on the Pennsylvanian senate race? Assume there is an order of magnitude error there or I am reading it wrong??

Yep. $0.3 BILLION.

That’s John Fetterman and Mehmut Oz, possibly the two most unsuitable candidates up for election today, and all the polls have nothing between them.

Hershell Walker must be more unsuitable than either.

Denying the last election renders you unfit to stand so there are an awful lot of unsuitable candidates.

MattW

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MattW said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

When do we get the result of the investigation into the alleged bullying by Williamson?

If I have understood this correctly, I'm still slightly bemused by a Chief Whip complaining about bullying. Isn't that what they exist to do themselves?

And if the report I have seen in the Guardian documents the whole thing, such an allegation now looks to me at least in part like revenge taken cold - which dissension is perhaps more worrying for the Tories than the thing itself.

"Vile" and "threatening" seems a little overegged - he just seems pissed off, and I can't see anything that can be called "misogynistic". Unless there is a claim that a theoretical man in the same position would not have had the same reaction.

I've not commented on other party's reactions, since they would say what they are saying regardless of what actually happened.

I'm going off these reports:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/08/gavin-williamson-under-growing-pressure-over-bullying-accusations
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/05/gavin-williamson-faces-inquiry-over-abusive-messages-to-wendy-morton
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/04/rishi-sunak-under-pressure-over-gavin-williamson-vile-messages-to-wendy-morton

I cannot see any mitigation for Williamson but everyone, even him, are permitted due process

There is an irony in that is reported that in 2006 Wendy Morton and 5 other conservative councillors were found guilty of bullying themselves apparently

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1078280.councillors-resign-following-row-swearing-chamber/

As yet I can't see anything he is alleged to have said that meets the claims for what he is alleged to have done. And I don't see that a backbench MP is really in any position to bully a Chief Whip. *

* If I understand the timing correctly. Given the recent games of Happy Families, Blind Man's Buff, Pass the Parcel and Musical Chairs at the top of the Tory Party, I may have got some of the three dimensional chess positions wrong.

Ishmael_Z

JosiasJessop said:

Ishmael_Z said:

JosiasJessop said:

Anabobazina said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

PCs really are shit

I love this sort of comment, as it shows people who are utterly clueless about computers.

Why? Is there something good about computers inconveniently rebooting?

You are harking back to the glory days of 30 years ago when people like you knew about computers and no one else did. Those days are gone.

Computers often need to reboot if they get updated. Yes, even Apple devices.

The last apple device I owned ran Mac OS 8.

Nigelb

JosiasJessop said:

Tp be clear: Windows is amazing. Getting a system that runs on such a massive variety of hardware, including legacy stuff, with so few problems is a miracle. And to make it fairly user-friendly as well. This matters, as without such capabilities we would have a number of closed, walled gardens that are much more expensive.

Apple has it easy; by controlling the hardware, you fantastically reduce the number of combinations you need to support.

Without Windows, the world would be much poorer.

That is true - but equally true is that some of us are much better off without Windows.

Selebian

BartholomewRoberts said:

JosiasJessop said:

Anabobazina said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

PCs really are shit

I love this sort of comment, as it shows people who are utterly clueless about computers.

Or someone really invested in @Cyclefree 's thoughts on the Metropolitan Police.

Or, indeed, the state of public conveniences in this country

Ishmael_Z

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MattW said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

When do we get the result of the investigation into the alleged bullying by Williamson?

If I have understood this correctly, I'm still slightly bemused by a Chief Whip complaining about bullying. Isn't that what they exist to do themselves?

And if the report I have seen in the Guardian documents the whole thing, such an allegation now looks to me at least in part like revenge taken cold - which dissension is perhaps more worrying for the Tories than the thing itself.

"Vile" and "threatening" seems a little overegged - he just seems pissed off, and I can't see anything that can be called "misogynistic". Unless there is a claim that a theoretical man in the same position would not have had the same reaction.

I've not commented on other party's reactions, since they would say what they are saying regardless of what actually happened.

I'm going off these reports:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/08/gavin-williamson-under-growing-pressure-over-bullying-accusations
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/05/gavin-williamson-faces-inquiry-over-abusive-messages-to-wendy-morton
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/04/rishi-sunak-under-pressure-over-gavin-williamson-vile-messages-to-wendy-morton

I cannot see any mitigation for Williamson but everyone, even him, are permitted due process

There is an irony in that is reported that in 2006 Wendy Morton and 5 other conservative councillors were found guilty of bullying themselves apparently

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1078280.councillors-resign-following-row-swearing-chamber/

No they aren't. In a normal job, you tell a colleague to fuck off in writing, you get fired. Just like that. None of this We must wait for Sue Wossname to report in 6 months time, and not prejudge her findings.

williamglenn

Nigelb said:

JosiasJessop said:

Tp be clear: Windows is amazing. Getting a system that runs on such a massive variety of hardware, including legacy stuff, with so few problems is a miracle. And to make it fairly user-friendly as well. This matters, as without such capabilities we would have a number of closed, walled gardens that are much more expensive.

Apple has it easy; by controlling the hardware, you fantastically reduce the number of combinations you need to support.

Without Windows, the world would be much poorer.

That is true - but equally true is that some of us are much better off without Windows.

Russian oligarchs, for example.

Nigelb

just had a guy speed walk into the polling place yelling “leave me alone I don’t care about any of these candidates I’m just here to vote for recreational weed”
https://mobile.twitter.com/_valgraham/status/1589968558217662464

Selebian

Nigelb said:

JosiasJessop said:

Tp be clear: Windows is amazing. Getting a system that runs on such a massive variety of hardware, including legacy stuff, with so few problems is a miracle. And to make it fairly user-friendly as well. This matters, as without such capabilities we would have a number of closed, walled gardens that are much more expensive.

Apple has it easy; by controlling the hardware, you fantastically reduce the number of combinations you need to support.

Without Windows, the world would be much poorer.

That is true - but equally true is that some of us are much better off without Windows.

Are you a fellow freetard, Nigel?

Selebian

williamglenn said:

Nigelb said:

JosiasJessop said:

Tp be clear: Windows is amazing. Getting a system that runs on such a massive variety of hardware, including legacy stuff, with so few problems is a miracle. And to make it fairly user-friendly as well. This matters, as without such capabilities we would have a number of closed, walled gardens that are much more expensive.

Apple has it easy; by controlling the hardware, you fantastically reduce the number of combinations you need to support.

Without Windows, the world would be much poorer.

That is true - but equally true is that some of us are much better off without Windows.

Russian oligarchs, for example.

Although technically, they were fine within windows. It was being suddenly without windows that led, directly, to their downfall

DJ41

MattW said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MattW said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

When do we get the result of the investigation into the alleged bullying by Williamson?

If I have understood this correctly, I'm still slightly bemused by a Chief Whip complaining about bullying. Isn't that what they exist to do themselves?

And if the report I have seen in the Guardian documents the whole thing, such an allegation now looks to me at least in part like revenge taken cold - which dissension is perhaps more worrying for the Tories than the thing itself.

"Vile" and "threatening" seems a little overegged - he just seems pissed off, and I can't see anything that can be called "misogynistic". Unless there is a claim that a theoretical man in the same position would not have had the same reaction.

I've not commented on other party's reactions, since they would say what they are saying regardless of what actually happened.

I'm going off these reports:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/08/gavin-williamson-under-growing-pressure-over-bullying-accusations
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/05/gavin-williamson-faces-inquiry-over-abusive-messages-to-wendy-morton
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/04/rishi-sunak-under-pressure-over-gavin-williamson-vile-messages-to-wendy-morton

I cannot see any mitigation for Williamson but everyone, even him, are permitted due process

There is an irony in that is reported that in 2006 Wendy Morton and 5 other conservative councillors were found guilty of bullying themselves apparently

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1078280.councillors-resign-following-row-swearing-chamber/

As yet I can't see anything he is alleged to have said that meets the claims for what he is alleged to have done. And I don't see that a backbench MP is really in any position to bully a Chief Whip. *

* If I understand the timing correctly. Given the recent games of Happy Families, Blind Man's Buff, Pass the Parcel and Musical Chairs at the top of the Tory Party, I may have got some of the three dimensional chess positions wrong.

Gavin's portfolio, even if he's said not to have one:

* Conflict Stability and Security Fund (CSSF) ("[The CSSF] enables 14 government departments and agencies to address security priorities in a collaborative way. The CSSF operates in over 80 countries and territories".
* GREAT campaign ("We are a nation of creative thinkers, daring dreamers and curious scientists. A place where fresh ideas and unique perspectives are welcomed, and where exploration and curiosity pave the way for progress." )
* Supporting the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster on driving the delivery of Government’s priorities
* Geospatial Commission
* Office of Government Property
* Government Property Agency
* Places for Growth
* Government Communications Service

Nigelb

Remarkable that the open opposition still continues.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ksadjadpour/status/1589952530016243714
In the last 8 weeks Iran’s regime has killed over 300 protestors, imprisoned nearly 15,000, and threatened to execute hundreds more, yet Iran’s women persist. Today female university students removed their forced hejab and chant, “I am a free woman.”

Big_G_NorthWales

Ishmael_Z said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MattW said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

When do we get the result of the investigation into the alleged bullying by Williamson?

If I have understood this correctly, I'm still slightly bemused by a Chief Whip complaining about bullying. Isn't that what they exist to do themselves?

And if the report I have seen in the Guardian documents the whole thing, such an allegation now looks to me at least in part like revenge taken cold - which dissension is perhaps more worrying for the Tories than the thing itself.

"Vile" and "threatening" seems a little overegged - he just seems pissed off, and I can't see anything that can be called "misogynistic". Unless there is a claim that a theoretical man in the same position would not have had the same reaction.

I've not commented on other party's reactions, since they would say what they are saying regardless of what actually happened.

I'm going off these reports:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/08/gavin-williamson-under-growing-pressure-over-bullying-accusations
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/05/gavin-williamson-faces-inquiry-over-abusive-messages-to-wendy-morton
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/04/rishi-sunak-under-pressure-over-gavin-williamson-vile-messages-to-wendy-morton

I cannot see any mitigation for Williamson but everyone, even him, are permitted due process

There is an irony in that is reported that in 2006 Wendy Morton and 5 other conservative councillors were found guilty of bullying themselves apparently

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1078280.councillors-resign-following-row-swearing-chamber/

No they aren't. In a normal job, you tell a colleague to fuck off in writing, you get fired. Just like that. None of this We must wait for Sue Wossname to report in 6 months time, and not prejudge her findings.

I am not excusing Williamson who should lose his cabinet position and I expect he will

Chelyabinsk

Ishmael_Z said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MattW said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

When do we get the result of the investigation into the alleged bullying by Williamson?

If I have understood this correctly, I'm still slightly bemused by a Chief Whip complaining about bullying. Isn't that what they exist to do themselves?

And if the report I have seen in the Guardian documents the whole thing, such an allegation now looks to me at least in part like revenge taken cold - which dissension is perhaps more worrying for the Tories than the thing itself.

"Vile" and "threatening" seems a little overegged - he just seems pissed off, and I can't see anything that can be called "misogynistic". Unless there is a claim that a theoretical man in the same position would not have had the same reaction.

I've not commented on other party's reactions, since they would say what they are saying regardless of what actually happened.

I'm going off these reports:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/08/gavin-williamson-under-growing-pressure-over-bullying-accusations
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/05/gavin-williamson-faces-inquiry-over-abusive-messages-to-wendy-morton
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/04/rishi-sunak-under-pressure-over-gavin-williamson-vile-messages-to-wendy-morton

I cannot see any mitigation for Williamson but everyone, even him, are permitted due process

There is an irony in that is reported that in 2006 Wendy Morton and 5 other conservative councillors were found guilty of bullying themselves apparently

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1078280.councillors-resign-following-row-swearing-chamber/

No they aren't. In a normal job, you tell a colleague to fuck off in writing, you get fired. Just like that. None of this We must wait for Sue Wossname to report in 6 months time, and not prejudge her findings.

No you don't.

When there is a possible workplace disciplinary or grievance issue, the employer should find out all they reasonably can about the issue. This is known as an 'investigation'.

An investigation is to:

- see if there is a case to answer
- make sure everyone is treated fairly
- gather evidence from all sides
- help the employer to see what should happen next...

To protect everyone involved in a disciplinary or grievance case, the employer must make sure they follow a fair procedure. The investigation is an important part of this.

If the employer does not carry out a reasonable investigation, any decisions they make in the disciplinary or grievance case are likely to be unfair. This could risk legal action.

Jim_Miller

The US 1st Amendment explains why the amounts of money spent on campaigns are so large in the US. Limits on spending are seen by most courts as limits on speech, and have gradually been disappearing. For example, one of the key court cases was Citizens United: "Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, 558 U.S. 310 (2010), was a landmark decision of the Supreme Court of the United States regarding campaign finance laws and free speech under the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. It was argued in 2009 and decided in 2010. The court held 5-4 that the free speech clause of the First Amendment prohibits the government from restricting independent expenditures for political campaigns by corporations, including nonprofit corporations, labor unions, and other associations.

The case began after Citizens United, a conservative non-profit organization, sought to air and advertise a film critical of then Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton shortly before the 2008 Democratic primary elections. Broadcasting the film would have been a violation of the 2002 Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, which prohibited any corporation, non-profit organization or labor union from making an "electioneering communication" within 30 days of a primary or 60 days of an election, or making any expenditure advocating the election or defeat of a candidate at any time. Citizens United challenged the constitutionality of this law, and its case reached the Supreme Court."
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC

These decisions have weakened the political influence of newspapers and our TV networks. Opinions differ on whether that is a good thing.

(One thing to remember is that US congressional districts have much larger populations than your constituencies; there are 435 House seats for a population of about 332 million, and many of the districts are quite large geographically, making door-to-door campaigning impractical.

Moreover, much TV advertising is wasted, since TV markets rarely match single-district boundaries. So, for example, most of the TV spending on House seats here in the Seattle area is wasted.)

Driver

Jim_Miller said:

The US 1st Amendment explains why the amounts of money spent on campaigns are so large in the US. Limits on spending are seen by most courts as limits on speech, and have gradually been disappearing. For example, one of the key court cases was Citizens United: "Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, 558 U.S. 310 (2010), was a landmark decision of the Supreme Court of the United States regarding campaign finance laws and free speech under the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. It was argued in 2009 and decided in 2010. The court held 5-4 that the free speech clause of the First Amendment prohibits the government from restricting independent expenditures for political campaigns by corporations, including nonprofit corporations, labor unions, and other associations.

The case began after Citizens United, a conservative non-profit organization, sought to air and advertise a film critical of then Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton shortly before the 2008 Democratic primary elections. Broadcasting the film would have been a violation of the 2002 Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, which prohibited any corporation, non-profit organization or labor union from making an "electioneering communication" within 30 days of a primary or 60 days of an election, or making any expenditure advocating the election or defeat of a candidate at any time. Citizens United challenged the constitutionality of this law, and its case reached the Supreme Court."
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC

These decisions have weakened the political influence of newspapers and our TV networks. Opinions differ on whether that is a good thing.

(One thing to remember is that US congressional districts have much larger populations than your constituencies; there are 435 House seats for a population of about 332 million, and many of the districts are quite large geographically, making door-to-door campaigning impractical.

Moreover, much TV advertising is wasted, since TV markets rarely match single-district boundaries. So, for example, most of the TV spending on House seats here in the Seattle area is wasted.)

Extending the provisions of the First Amendment from citizens to corporations always felt like a bit of a stretch to me.

Scott_xP

The butthurt is strong with this one...

NEW

Axing Britannia 2.0 is another blow for Brexit Britain

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/08/axing-britannia-20-another-blow-brexit-britain/

malcolmg

StuartDickson said:

Staff 'moved after serious radiation breach' at Trident nuclear base

https://twitter.com/scottishsun/status/1589898505564426240?s=46&t=42yyP7SrdXrd6oh9uqQchw

Ben Wallace said we should be grateful they put all their radiation in Scotland, a Union benefit seemingly.

DJ41

MattW said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

When do we get the result of the investigation into the alleged bullying by Williamson?

If I have understood this correctly, I'm still slightly bemused by a Chief Whip complaining about bullying. Isn't that what they exist to do themselves?

And if the report I have seen in the Guardian documents the whole thing, such an allegation now looks to me at least in part like revenge taken cold - which dissension is perhaps more worrying for the Tories than the thing itself.

"Vile" and "threatening" seems a little overegged - he just seems pissed off, and I can't see anything that can be called "misogynistic". Unless there is a claim that a theoretical man in the same position would not have had the same reaction.

That would be sexism and would not in itself come anywhere near the bar for misogyny.

He was threatening, though. "There is a price for everything" was a threat.

Nigelb

Selebian said:

Nigelb said:

JosiasJessop said:

Tp be clear: Windows is amazing. Getting a system that runs on such a massive variety of hardware, including legacy stuff, with so few problems is a miracle. And to make it fairly user-friendly as well. This matters, as without such capabilities we would have a number of closed, walled gardens that are much more expensive.

Apple has it easy; by controlling the hardware, you fantastically reduce the number of combinations you need to support.

Without Windows, the world would be much poorer.

That is true - but equally true is that some of us are much better off without Windows.

Are you a fellow freetard, Nigel?

No.
I am a sad slave to Apple.

Carnyx

Selebian said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

JosiasJessop said:

Anabobazina said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT today is Patch Tuesday and potentially a big one with the 22H2 updates, so beware of PCs and laptops rebooting inconveniently over the next day or two, especially if staying up late for the US mid-terms. (tbf it should be small if you are up to date anyway on Windows 10).

PCs really are shit

I love this sort of comment, as it shows people who are utterly clueless about computers.

Or someone really invested in @Cyclefree 's thoughts on the Metropolitan Police.

Or, indeed, the state of public conveniences in this country

Believe me, as you get older the latter becomes much more salient. Including also the kind of person whom one discovers has been made a Privy Councillor.

Nigelb

DJ41 said:

MattW said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MattW said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good afternoon

I expect Williamson's tenure to be coming to an end following due process, and certainly it is a distraction that is not needed by Rishi

However, Bloomberg is reporting that the UK and EU are close to a break through on Northern Ireland and they attribute today's strengthining pound to this

I have sensed for some time Rishi is far more pragmatic on controversial issues , and I expect his meeting with Macron will see the channel crossings problem addressed to our mutual benefit, as I expect Macron's outer EU nation proposals to be seriously discussed and considered

When do we get the result of the investigation into the alleged bullying by Williamson?

If I have understood this correctly, I'm still slightly bemused by a Chief Whip complaining about bullying. Isn't that what they exist to do themselves?

And if the report I have seen in the Guardian documents the whole thing, such an allegation now looks to me at least in part like revenge taken cold - which dissension is perhaps more worrying for the Tories than the thing itself.

"Vile" and "threatening" seems a little overegged - he just seems pissed off, and I can't see anything that can be called "misogynistic". Unless there is a claim that a theoretical man in the same position would not have had the same reaction.

I've not commented on other party's reactions, since they would say what they are saying regardless of what actually happened.

I'm going off these reports:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/08/gavin-williamson-under-growing-pressure-over-bullying-accusations
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/05/gavin-williamson-faces-inquiry-over-abusive-messages-to-wendy-morton
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/04/rishi-sunak-under-pressure-over-gavin-williamson-vile-messages-to-wendy-morton

I cannot see any mitigation for Williamson but everyone, even him, are permitted due process

There is an irony in that is reported that in 2006 Wendy Morton and 5 other conservative councillors were found guilty of bullying themselves apparently

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1078280.councillors-resign-following-row-swearing-chamber/

As yet I can't see anything he is alleged to have said that meets the claims for what he is alleged to have done. And I don't see that a backbench MP is really in any position to bully a Chief Whip. *

* If I understand the timing correctly. Given the recent games of Happy Families, Blind Man's Buff, Pass the Parcel and Musical Chairs at the top of the Tory Party, I may have got some of the three dimensional chess positions wrong.

Gavin's portfolio, even if he's said not to have one:

* Conflict Stability and Security Fund (CSSF) ("[The CSSF] enables 14 government departments and agencies to address security priorities in a collaborative way. The CSSF operates in over 80 countries and territories".
* GREAT campaign ("We are a nation of creative thinkers, daring dreamers and curious scientists. A place where fresh ideas and unique perspectives are welcomed, and where exploration and curiosity pave the way for progress." )
* Supporting the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster on driving the delivery of Government’s priorities
* Geospatial Commission
* Office of Government Property
* Government Property Agency
* Places for Growth
* Government Communications Service

A poltroon's portmanteau.

Ishmael_Z

JosiasJessop said:

Tp be clear: Windows is amazing. Getting a system that runs on such a massive variety of hardware, including legacy stuff, with so few problems is a miracle. And to make it fairly user-friendly as well. This matters, as without such capabilities we would have a number of closed, walled gardens that are much more expensive.

Apple has it easy; by controlling the hardware, you fantastically reduce the number of combinations you need to support.

Without Windows, the world would be much poorer.

Which is great for people who don't know much about computers.

SeaShantyIrish2

2022 US Midterms - Poll Closing Times

6pm EST (11pm UK) = most of IN and KY

7pm EST (12mid UK) = most of FL, Georgia, New Hampshire, SC, VT, VA

7.30pm EST (12.30am UK) = NC, Ohio, WVa

8pm EST (1am UK) = Pennsylvania plus gaggle of other states from Maine to (most of) Texas

9pm EST = 8pm CDT = 7pm MDT (2am UK) = New York also Wisconsin also Arizona, Colorado & New Mexico

8pm MST (3am UK) = Nevada & Utah

8pm PST (4am UK) = California, Oregon, Washington

8pm Alaska Standard Time = 7pm Hawaii Standard Time (5am UK) = Alaska & Hawaii

Scott_xP

No 10 says Sunak could take action on Williamson without waiting for all inquiries into him to conclude -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/nov/08/gavin-williamson-rishi-sunak-uk-politics-latest-live-news

Carnyx

Scott_xP said:

The butthurt is strong with this one...

NEW

Axing Britannia 2.0 is another blow for Brexit Britain

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/08/axing-britannia-20-another-blow-brexit-britain/

Yes, his newspaper has been complaining about MoD budget overruns and public spending for decades and now they want to spend something like 1bn on another Gmt shagmobile which will take a non-trivial percentaghe of the frigate fleet out of action (when one considers time out on refits etc)?