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Rishi Sunak’s impotence – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    EPG said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    Go to PB comments.
    That's a given.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Leon said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    Take an iPad and don’t give a fuck. I’ve done it so often now I don’t care whatsoever and I positively enjoy dining alone. I don’t have to make small talk and I can chat on here or Twitter or wherever

    It’s rather restful

    Of course I really enjoy dining with others as well. They are two very different experiences
    The first time you do it it's really difficult for some reason.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    edited October 2022
    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    I would usually rather eat alone than with other people. I mean, other people are fine and all, but I'd usually rather read a book than chat to someone.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Jonathan said:

    Fascinating PB thread on Truss’ first PMQs.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/10804/starmer-v-truss-the-first-pmqs-politicalbetting-com/p2

    It’s another world. Such gems as how difficult Labour will find it in 2024 to go up against substantially lower taxes. Lots of praise for her from the usual suspects for her low key approach. In the middle of the discussion someone mentioned that the pound was falling.

    Did we ever get to the bottom of why Leon has a photo of Hitler as his screensaver/wallpaper?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Dura_Ace said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    Pick fights with complete strangers and get into brawls until pain is mother's milk to you. Eventually you'll have zero locus of external identity and won't give a fuck what people think.
    Did you follow this advice yourself?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    boulay said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    A book. Gives you something to focus on and you look vaguely interesting even if the book is the profanosaurus with an intellectual bigger book cover around the outside.

    And where you can, smoking, as “you are never alone with a Strand” whilst an advertising failure if you are sitting outside alone with a smoke and a drink etc it seems more acceptable. And then you die earlier thus reducing the amount of times you have to dine alone.
    I was reading a biography of the Duke of Wellington earlier for a bit in Winchester.

    Thought I looked a bit odd but I'm sure most people don't care.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Fascinating PB thread on Truss’ first PMQs.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/10804/starmer-v-truss-the-first-pmqs-politicalbetting-com/p2

    It’s another world. Such gems as how difficult Labour will find it in 2024 to go up against substantially lower taxes. Lots of praise for her from the usual suspects for her low key approach. In the middle of the discussion someone mentioned that the pound was falling.

    Did we ever get to the bottom of why Leon has a photo of Hitler as his screensaver/wallpaper?
    Catfishing PB.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    Sitting alone in a restaurant never bothers me, nor does being alone in a pub. My "secret" is that I like people watching and I do not care what people think of me. I will probably never see the other patrons again so their opinions are irrelevant for me.

    I have never gone to a cinema on my own, but cinema is not really my thing.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Andy_JS said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    At restaurants sit at the bar if there is one.
    The unwritten rule there is, though, that you're game for a chat - and should try and chat.

    I'm a bit shy, most of the time.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    I would usually rather eat alone than with other people. I mean, other people are fine and all, but I'd usually rather read a book than chat to someone.
    Since I mostly dine alone when I'm on a long-distance walk (sadly infrequently atm), people probably don't talk to me for reasons of fragrance. At least that's what I tell myself. ;)

    Having said that, I did meet a very pleasant Canadian lass in the Pizza Hut in Cockburn Street, Edinburgh many moons ago. I was eating alone, and she asked if she could join me.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited October 2022
    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    9am fry up and a couple of pints in the Whiffler 'Spoons on Norwich ring road. Gritty.
    They open at 8 but who's getting out of bed for 8?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    I would usually rather eat alone than with other people. I mean, other people are fine and all, but I'd usually rather read a book than chat to someone.
    Since I mostly dine alone when I'm on a long-distance walk (sadly infrequently atm), people probably don't talk to me for reasons of fragrance. At least that's what I tell myself. ;)

    Having said that, I did meet a very pleasant Canadian lass in the Pizza Hut in Cockburn Street, Edinburgh many moons ago. I was eating alone, and she asked if she could join me.
    ...and?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Carnyx said:

    mwadams said:

    Eabhal said:

    I'm interested on how PB's finest would tackle the boats across the channel issue. I think a deal with the French is needed along lines of processing applications for asylum jointly in France and we take a certain percentage or number and French agree that intercepted boats can be turned back. Anybody think that Rwanda might "work" if implemented fully?

    Easy.

    Permanent landlord ban on anyone housing undocumented migrants

    Permanent director ban for any company employing them

    Permanent driving ban for anyone moving them about

    Etc etc
    And residency rights for any illegal immigrant who whistleblows on the above.
    But think about the companies. How are they to know, in the absence of a UK ID card?

    They'd need to ask everyone to show a passport. How do they know they are real? And what about the many, many UK subjects who don't have a passport? Are they to become unemployable?
    For every job I've had, I've been asked for evidence of my identity. Not just for right to work, but for risk reduction.

    A relative who runs a building company finds no difficulty in getting his people to prove who they are.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    I have grudging respect for those blokes that can watch porn in 4k on their laptops on public transport. That's grandmaster level of not giving a fuck.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia has just claimed that Ukraine plan to shoot down a rocket filled with radioactive material over the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

    So, going by Russian logic, that is exactly what Russia will now do. Then they can say Told you so, while scaring the shit out of everyone
    Given the U?S at least and probably others have intel into the heart of the Kremlin (eg detailed advance knowledge of the Ukraine invasion) how do you think Russia will get away with this? Sure, there will be a gazillion Twitter twats who will go "Ooh, look, Ukrainian bastards!" but the higher levels of diplomacy will know exactly what gas gone on.

    And Ukraine would lose its military and financial support overnight if they actually did it themselves. So it is beyond any credulity for it to work as the Russians suggest "it was Ukraine wot did it...."
    Russia doesn't care about the truth, here, it cares about perceptions

    If they set off a small dirty bomb and manage to at least temporarily blur the truth of who did it, then that is job done. Everyone will know it was probably Russia - probably - but won't be entirely sure. And everyone will be scared shitless and probably pushing Ukraine to back down

    See the Kerch bombing, the Nordstream bombing, and the Dugin bombing. Each has been successfully blamed on various actors, even though we have a good idea in all cases who did it (Ukraine, USA, Ukraine)
    You think US did nordstream? Interesting. I imagine any nuclear incident would lead to enormous pressure on China and India not to buy Russian oil. China is already alleged to be pretty furious with Putin and their economy is in trouble.
    I am fairly confident the USA did Nordstream, tho they might have used a proxy to get it done yet avoid the blame (Ukraine itself, or maybe the Poles or Finns)

    The strategic prize of keeping Germany on the western side, reliant on America, and also of cutting off Putin's options - one day selling more gas to Europe - was irresistible for Washington. And recall we have several vids of Biden and aides months ago saying the USA would do exactly this: cut Nordsream (one way or another)

    But we cannot be sure. The fog of war obscures the truth. And that fog is what Putin might rely on, if he "does something radioactive"
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I agree that the US is the most likely culprit for the Nordstream sabotage, on the "cui bono" principle. I don't understand what Russia got out of the sabotage, other than saying "look at what we did here, we can do it to something that matters, e.g. the north sea pipeline or a transatlantic communications cable.

    America however benefits enormously from ensuring that Russian gas is cut off and stays cut off. Prevents waverers in Europe if there is a very cold winter. Add to that the fact that Biden literally said the US would "put an end" to Nordstream 2 if Russia attacked Ukraine, back in January.
    1) The Russians send exactly the message you say.

    2) Europe has learnt the hard way the problems with relying on Russia for energy. There was virtually no chance of (say) Germany going back to using it - which is why they've refused once Russia offered a week or so ago.

    3) The implications if the Americans get caught doing it are massive, and not good for them.

    4) For Russia, it adds to the 'Russia stronk!' pathetic meme they like to sell to their population and silly people outside Russia.

    5) The spate of recent cable breaks are *not* to the US's advantage. They are to Russia's.
    It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?

    My view is that by blowing up Nordstream, the US (assuming they are the culprits) ensure that there can be no normalisation of relations in the event of a complete Russian collapse and regime change - thus protecting their long term strategic interests. Put simply, they have the most to benefit from doing it. Especially if they believe a regime change is possible or even near (which they might). If I were America and expected Russia to lose this war quickly, but wanted to prevent a normalisation of relations and a resumption of gas supplies once the new regime was in place, this is *exactly* what I would do. This is simply realpolitik, and every nation state engages in it.

    I don't get what the Russians get out of blowing up Nordstream that they can't get out of snipping a few phone lines in Shetland. The former effs up their income stream from gas for decades, the latter inconveniences a few shepherds while sending a message.

    I really don't understand how America could get "caught" here. Even if there were photos of a grinning Joe Biden planting plastic explosives, while wearing an old-timey diving suit, and giving the thumbs up, the Americans would deny all knowledge, as they always do, and we would still be in "conspiracy theory" territory.
    "It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?"

    To send the message that all out underwater infrastructure is vulnerable. If it was just gas pipelines we *might* be able to protect them; having to protect the vast network of cables as well is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the numbers involved. See https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    And attacking underwater cables might be much more immediately disruptive than even the gas pipelines. One of the most important acts we did in WW1 was cutting the German international cables - and we did that in the first few weeks.

    How could Americans get caught? People talking. Other countries (perhaps those who might want to use pipelines) detecting submarines or ships that did it. Other intelligence means.
    Exactly my point.

    So the Russians are most likely to blame for Shetland - it sends a powerful message, at little cost to them. Whereas blowing up a gas pipeline sends a message "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" at an extraordinary cost to them. Which would be a message the Americans would dearly like to send, especially if they think Putin is about to lose, and they want to set the geopolitical agenda for another 30 years or more.

    So on the cui bono principle, the Russians are obviously responsible for Shetland, but they'd have to be barking mad, and cutting off their own noses to spite their face, to blow up Nordstream.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    edited October 2022

    TimS said:

    It’s over 20C here in the Maconnais at 8.30 and I’m out on the terrace in the dark in short sleeves listening to crickets chirping. It’s nearly November. 25C forecast tomorrow.

    #climatechange.

    Incidentally I worked out the nearest nukeable location is St Yan air force base, 43km to our SW. reckon it would be a smallish warhead for that one rather than a megaton city-destroyer. Lyon 100km to the Soith gets one of them. Possibly Le Creusot or Montceau les Mines 50km to the NW get a small one. Dijon? Far enough away not to worry.

    So I’d see the flash, possibly get a bit of fallout on a Westerly but not too much. Would be like the scene in Empire of the Sun when the boy sees the Nagasaki bomb and thinks it’s his mother going up to heaven.

    Climate change plus a long fetch southerly.
    Yes, and high pressure here. A long fetch Southerly across very warm subtropical Atlantic SSTs and a soup like Med.



    Remarkable pattern really. Warm water anomalies everywhere except a very marked and deep La Niña in the pacific.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    Dry martini after dinner?

    Fuck me.
    Not sure Bond was ever that direct in the Fleming novels.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593
    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    Taking the time to chat to the FoH staff is also well worthwhile - especially in a City you don't know.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    edited October 2022

    Interesting take from former central banker Narayana Kocherlakota.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-10-26/liz-truss-s-ouster-wasn-t-the-markets-doing

    image

    The BOE is becoming a definite problem. Since being granted its independence it seems to have done a sort of reverse takeover of the Treasury, which now seems to need to be granted independence from the Bank.
    I'm no global economics expert, but borrowing billions to give tax cuts to rich people in an unfunded budget doesn't sound like a good idea.
    But now I'm told it was the Bank of England's fault. Really?
    Not sure if you've read the article, but the author blames the budget largely (I think) for the smaller movements in the pound and the FTSE, but the Bank largely for the ongoing issues with gilts and the knock on effect on pensions. I think that's broadly correct.

    If I were Truss and Kwarteng I'd have gone in two footed on the bank, and tested their determination to continue their bond sell off in the court of public opinion. They didn't, probably for good reason. And yes, the budget was poor, and poorly conceived, organised and presented.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Dura_Ace said:

    I have grudging respect for those blokes that can watch porn in 4k on their laptops on public transport. That's grandmaster level of not giving a fuck.

    Without headphones for the win.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Dura_Ace said:

    I have grudging respect for those blokes that can watch porn in 4k on their laptops on public transport. That's grandmaster level of not giving a fuck.

    This came up over the tractor porn episode under Johnson (remember that?) Was presented as a method of sexual aggression against women in the vicinity. Not giving a fuck seems more probable.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Carnyx said:

    I'm interested on how PB's finest would tackle the boats across the channel issue. I think a deal with the French is needed along lines of processing applications for asylum jointly in France and we take a certain percentage or number and French agree that intercepted boats can be turned back. Anybody think that Rwanda might "work" if implemented fully?

    Good God! Strike a deal with the French? You absolute traitor, sir, how dare you!
    More importantly, the French will never stop the boats.

    They will make agreements, but the locals hate the migrants with a considerable heat.

    No French politician is going to upset so many French people to accommodate foreigners. Especially the British.
    The only way to stop the boats is to eliminate the pull factor. It must be clearly understood that there is no direct route to staying in the country for boat arrivals. No ifs or buts.
    Not logical. Why treat them differently from other illegals?
    We shouldn't. Anyone here illegally should, by definition, be deported.
    Where to?
    Their choice, and if they don't have one, dealer's choice.
    Because soooo many countries have border policies such that you can turn up with a ship or plane full of a few hundred passportless undesirables and offload them and fuck off home to get the next lot.

    But just give us an example.
    The only wY risk this given modern ability to travel is to have fe the rules so you can send back down the chain (ie France can return to Italy, Italy to Libya, etc). Return to point of origin dies t wirk as people destroy their id
  • The Elections Act 2022 comes into force today, replacing the Supplementary Vote system used in Mayoral and PCC Elections with First Past the Post.

    Personally, I think the Tories may soon regret setting a precedent for changing the voting system without a referendum...


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1585346703175344128
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    boulay said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    A book. Gives you something to focus on and you look vaguely interesting even if the book is the profanosaurus with an intellectual bigger book cover around the outside.

    And where you can, smoking, as “you are never alone with a Strand” whilst an advertising failure if you are sitting outside alone with a smoke and a drink etc it seems more acceptable. And then you die earlier thus reducing the amount of times you have to dine alone.
    I was reading a biography of the Duke of Wellington earlier for a bit in Winchester.

    Thought I looked a bit odd but I'm sure most
    people don't care.
    That’s how Rishi got his big idea! CRIPM coming up in a few years.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    9am fry up and a couple of pints in the Whiffler 'Spoons on Norwich ring road. Gritty.
    They open at 8 but who's getting out of bed for 8?
    That's a stag do without the stag?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    Years ago I was having a lunchtime drink and meal in a pub during a walk. A much older man entered the pub, stood at the bar, and then came over and asked me if I was (insert my name).

    It turned out he recognised me from me website. It was his local pub, and he was a keen walker. It's the only time that's ever happened, and it felt weird.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia has just claimed that Ukraine plan to shoot down a rocket filled with radioactive material over the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

    So, going by Russian logic, that is exactly what Russia will now do. Then they can say Told you so, while scaring the shit out of everyone
    Given the U?S at least and probably others have intel into the heart of the Kremlin (eg detailed advance knowledge of the Ukraine invasion) how do you think Russia will get away with this? Sure, there will be a gazillion Twitter twats who will go "Ooh, look, Ukrainian bastards!" but the higher levels of diplomacy will know exactly what gas gone on.

    And Ukraine would lose its military and financial support overnight if they actually did it themselves. So it is beyond any credulity for it to work as the Russians suggest "it was Ukraine wot did it...."
    Russia doesn't care about the truth, here, it cares about perceptions

    If they set off a small dirty bomb and manage to at least temporarily blur the truth of who did it, then that is job done. Everyone will know it was probably Russia - probably - but won't be entirely sure. And everyone will be scared shitless and probably pushing Ukraine to back down

    See the Kerch bombing, the Nordstream bombing, and the Dugin bombing. Each has been successfully blamed on various actors, even though we have a good idea in all cases who did it (Ukraine, USA, Ukraine)
    You think US did nordstream? Interesting. I imagine any nuclear incident would lead to enormous pressure on China and India not to buy Russian oil. China is already alleged to be pretty furious with Putin and their economy is in trouble.
    I am fairly confident the USA did Nordstream, tho they might have used a proxy to get it done yet avoid the blame (Ukraine itself, or maybe the Poles or Finns)

    The strategic prize of keeping Germany on the western side, reliant on America, and also of cutting off Putin's options - one day selling more gas to Europe - was irresistible for Washington. And recall we have several vids of Biden and aides months ago saying the USA would do exactly this: cut Nordsream (one way or another)

    But we cannot be sure. The fog of war obscures the truth. And that fog is what Putin might rely on, if he "does something radioactive"
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I agree that the US is the most likely culprit for the Nordstream sabotage, on the "cui bono" principle. I don't understand what Russia got out of the sabotage, other than saying "look at what we did here, we can do it to something that matters, e.g. the north sea pipeline or a transatlantic communications cable.

    America however benefits enormously from ensuring that Russian gas is cut off and stays cut off. Prevents waverers in Europe if there is a very cold winter. Add to that the fact that Biden literally said the US would "put an end" to Nordstream 2 if Russia attacked Ukraine, back in January.
    1) The Russians send exactly the message you say.

    2) Europe has learnt the hard way the problems with relying on Russia for energy. There was virtually no chance of (say) Germany going back to using it - which is why they've refused once Russia offered a week or so ago.

    3) The implications if the Americans get caught doing it are massive, and not good for them.

    4) For Russia, it adds to the 'Russia stronk!' pathetic meme they like to sell to their population and silly people outside Russia.

    5) The spate of recent cable breaks are *not* to the US's advantage. They are to Russia's.
    It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?

    My view is that by blowing up Nordstream, the US (assuming they are the culprits) ensure that there can be no normalisation of relations in the event of a complete Russian collapse and regime change - thus protecting their long term strategic interests. Put simply, they have the most to benefit from doing it. Especially if they believe a regime change is possible or even near (which they might). If I were America and expected Russia to lose this war quickly, but wanted to prevent a normalisation of relations and a resumption of gas supplies once the new regime was in place, this is *exactly* what I would do. This is simply realpolitik, and every nation state engages in it.

    I don't get what the Russians get out of blowing up Nordstream that they can't get out of snipping a few phone lines in Shetland. The former effs up their income stream from gas for decades, the latter inconveniences a few shepherds while sending a message.

    I really don't understand how America could get "caught" here. Even if there were photos of a grinning Joe Biden planting plastic explosives, while wearing an old-timey diving suit, and giving the thumbs up, the Americans would deny all knowledge, as they always do, and we would still be in "conspiracy theory" territory.
    "It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?"

    To send the message that all out underwater infrastructure is vulnerable. If it was just gas pipelines we *might* be able to protect them; having to protect the vast network of cables as well is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the numbers involved. See https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    And attacking underwater cables might be much more immediately disruptive than even the gas pipelines. One of the most important acts we did in WW1 was cutting the German international cables - and we did that in the first few weeks.

    How could Americans get caught? People talking. Other countries (perhaps those who might want to use pipelines) detecting submarines or ships that did it. Other intelligence means.
    Exactly my point.

    So the Russians are most likely to blame for Shetland - it sends a powerful message, at little cost to them. Whereas blowing up a gas pipeline sends a message "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" at an extraordinary cost to them. Which would be a message the Americans would dearly like to send, especially if they think Putin is about to lose, and they want to set the geopolitical agenda for another 30 years or more.

    So on the cui bono principle, the Russians are obviously responsible for Shetland, but they'd have to be barking mad, and cutting off their own noses to spite their face, to blow up Nordstream.
    Some little time later, the Russians offered to sell gas to Germany via Nordstream 2, if it was activated.

    Which might suggest a motive for damaging the original Nordstream.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    I would usually rather eat alone than with other people. I mean, other people are fine and all, but I'd usually rather read a book than chat to someone.
    Since I mostly dine alone when I'm on a long-distance walk (sadly infrequently atm), people probably don't talk to me for reasons of fragrance. At least that's what I tell myself. ;)

    Having said that, I did meet a very pleasant Canadian lass in the Pizza Hut in Cockburn Street, Edinburgh many moons ago. I was eating alone, and she asked if she could join me.
    ...and?
    Cockburn by name, cockburn by nature.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    mwadams said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    I think it's good to practice not caring too much about what you think other people might be thinking about you.

    If you can do that, there is a lot of pleasure to be had from the peace of your own company.
    Yes indeed, in fact it's a general rule of life. In general, almost nobody is very interested in anything we do unless it's ridiculous or outrageous. If we see someone else sitting on their own, do we speculate about their situation? Nah.
    Men don't. Women do.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995

    The Elections Act 2022 comes into force today, replacing the Supplementary Vote system used in Mayoral and PCC Elections with First Past the Post.

    Personally, I think the Tories may soon regret setting a precedent for changing the voting system without a referendum...


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1585346703175344128

    I suppose it depends how badly they do at the next election. On last week’s polls (which will doubtless soon be a thing of the past) they’d be begging for PR.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    mwadams said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    I think it's good to practice not caring too much about what you think other people might be thinking about you.

    If you can do that, there is a lot of pleasure to be had from the peace of your own company.
    Yes indeed, in fact it's a general rule of life. In general, almost nobody is very interested in anything we do unless it's ridiculous or outrageous. If we see someone else sitting on their own, do we speculate about their situation? Nah.
    I sort of do, actually.

    It's the people watching thing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Carnyx said:

    I'm interested on how PB's finest would tackle the boats across the channel issue. I think a deal with the French is needed along lines of processing applications for asylum jointly in France and we take a certain percentage or number and French agree that intercepted boats can be turned back. Anybody think that Rwanda might "work" if implemented fully?

    Good God! Strike a deal with the French? You absolute traitor, sir, how dare you!
    More importantly, the French will never stop the boats.

    They will make agreements, but the locals hate the migrants with a considerable heat.

    No French politician is going to upset so many French people to accommodate foreigners. Especially the British.
    The only way to stop the boats is to eliminate the pull factor. It must be clearly understood that there is no direct route to staying in the country for boat arrivals. No ifs or buts.
    Not logical. Why treat them differently from other illegals?
    We shouldn't. Anyone here illegally should, by definition, be deported.
    Where to?
    Their choice, and if they don't have one, dealer's choice.
    Because soooo many countries have border policies such that you can turn up with a ship or plane full of a few hundred passportless undesirables and offload them and fuck off home to get the next lot.

    But just give us an example.
    The only wY risk this given modern ability to travel is to have fe the rules so you can send back down the chain (ie France can return to Italy, Italy to Libya, etc). Return to point of origin dies t wirk as people destroy their id
    Take a leaf out the EU solution book - Get the Libyan Coast Guard to patrol the Channel, kidnapping any refugees they find.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,157
    edited October 2022
    I've always thought some cultures are more tolerant of the lone diner than others. The Italians tend to take a bit more convincing, unless you're stylishly dressed. Germans and other Northern Europeans tend to keep their thoughts about you to themselves, and the Greeks will be confident and happy about it simply if you look confident and blase yourself.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803

    mwadams said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    I think it's good to practice not caring too much about what you think other people might be thinking about you.

    If you can do that, there is a lot of pleasure to be had from the peace of your own company.
    Yes indeed, in fact it's a general rule of life. In general, almost nobody is very interested in anything we do unless it's ridiculous or outrageous. If we see someone else sitting on their own, do we speculate about their situation? Nah.
    I sort of do, actually.

    It's the people watching thing.
    Having a phone to browse, or, in previous years, a book to read takes away any self consciousness in this respect.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia has just claimed that Ukraine plan to shoot down a rocket filled with radioactive material over the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

    So, going by Russian logic, that is exactly what Russia will now do. Then they can say Told you so, while scaring the shit out of everyone
    Given the U?S at least and probably others have intel into the heart of the Kremlin (eg detailed advance knowledge of the Ukraine invasion) how do you think Russia will get away with this? Sure, there will be a gazillion Twitter twats who will go "Ooh, look, Ukrainian bastards!" but the higher levels of diplomacy will know exactly what gas gone on.

    And Ukraine would lose its military and financial support overnight if they actually did it themselves. So it is beyond any credulity for it to work as the Russians suggest "it was Ukraine wot did it...."
    Russia doesn't care about the truth, here, it cares about perceptions

    If they set off a small dirty bomb and manage to at least temporarily blur the truth of who did it, then that is job done. Everyone will know it was probably Russia - probably - but won't be entirely sure. And everyone will be scared shitless and probably pushing Ukraine to back down

    See the Kerch bombing, the Nordstream bombing, and the Dugin bombing. Each has been successfully blamed on various actors, even though we have a good idea in all cases who did it (Ukraine, USA, Ukraine)
    You think US did nordstream? Interesting. I imagine any nuclear incident would lead to enormous pressure on China and India not to buy Russian oil. China is already alleged to be pretty furious with Putin and their economy is in trouble.
    I am fairly confident the USA did Nordstream, tho they might have used a proxy to get it done yet avoid the blame (Ukraine itself, or maybe the Poles or Finns)

    The strategic prize of keeping Germany on the western side, reliant on America, and also of cutting off Putin's options - one day selling more gas to Europe - was irresistible for Washington. And recall we have several vids of Biden and aides months ago saying the USA would do exactly this: cut Nordsream (one way or another)

    But we cannot be sure. The fog of war obscures the truth. And that fog is what Putin might rely on, if he "does something radioactive"
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I agree that the US is the most likely culprit for the Nordstream sabotage, on the "cui bono" principle. I don't understand what Russia got out of the sabotage, other than saying "look at what we did here, we can do it to something that matters, e.g. the north sea pipeline or a transatlantic communications cable.

    America however benefits enormously from ensuring that Russian gas is cut off and stays cut off. Prevents waverers in Europe if there is a very cold winter. Add to that the fact that Biden literally said the US would "put an end" to Nordstream 2 if Russia attacked Ukraine, back in January.
    1) The Russians send exactly the message you say.

    2) Europe has learnt the hard way the problems with relying on Russia for energy. There was virtually no chance of (say) Germany going back to using it - which is why they've refused once Russia offered a week or so ago.

    3) The implications if the Americans get caught doing it are massive, and not good for them.

    4) For Russia, it adds to the 'Russia stronk!' pathetic meme they like to sell to their population and silly people outside Russia.

    5) The spate of recent cable breaks are *not* to the US's advantage. They are to Russia's.
    It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?

    My view is that by blowing up Nordstream, the US (assuming they are the culprits) ensure that there can be no normalisation of relations in the event of a complete Russian collapse and regime change - thus protecting their long term strategic interests. Put simply, they have the most to benefit from doing it. Especially if they believe a regime change is possible or even near (which they might). If I were America and expected Russia to lose this war quickly, but wanted to prevent a normalisation of relations and a resumption of gas supplies once the new regime was in place, this is *exactly* what I would do. This is simply realpolitik, and every nation state engages in it.

    I don't get what the Russians get out of blowing up Nordstream that they can't get out of snipping a few phone lines in Shetland. The former effs up their income stream from gas for decades, the latter inconveniences a few shepherds while sending a message.

    I really don't understand how America could get "caught" here. Even if there were photos of a grinning Joe Biden planting plastic explosives, while wearing an old-timey diving suit, and giving the thumbs up, the Americans would deny all knowledge, as they always do, and we would still be in "conspiracy theory" territory.
    "It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?"

    To send the message that all out underwater infrastructure is vulnerable. If it was just gas pipelines we *might* be able to protect them; having to protect the vast network of cables as well is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the numbers involved. See https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    And attacking underwater cables might be much more immediately disruptive than even the gas pipelines. One of the most important acts we did in WW1 was cutting the German international cables - and we did that in the first few weeks.

    How could Americans get caught? People talking. Other countries (perhaps those who might want to use pipelines) detecting submarines or ships that did it. Other intelligence means.
    Exactly my point.

    So the Russians are most likely to blame for Shetland - it sends a powerful message, at little cost to them. Whereas blowing up a gas pipeline sends a message "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" at an extraordinary cost to them. Which would be a message the Americans would dearly like to send, especially if they think Putin is about to lose, and they want to set the geopolitical agenda for another 30 years or more.

    So on the cui bono principle, the Russians are obviously responsible for Shetland, but they'd have to be barking mad, and cutting off their own noses to spite their face, to blow up Nordstream.
    Some little time later, the Russians offered to sell gas to Germany via Nordstream 2, if it was activated.

    Which might suggest a motive for damaging the original Nordstream.
    Only one country is desperate and ready to escalate beyond common sense, and only one has anything meaningful to gain from scaring the Europeans about gas supplies. The Americans didn’t even want to to export LNG until a couple of years ago, for national security reasons. Cheap American gas is more important than exports.

    Only one country has been persistently hovering around both gas pipelines and telecoms cables for years, acting menacing.

    It was a warning to Europe, with the added benefit of hoping to bring NS2 back on the table. A warning that didn’t work.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    Taking the time to chat to the FoH staff is also well worthwhile - especially in a City you don't know.
    I find that works best with the pre-dinner cocktail.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia has just claimed that Ukraine plan to shoot down a rocket filled with radioactive material over the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

    So, going by Russian logic, that is exactly what Russia will now do. Then they can say Told you so, while scaring the shit out of everyone
    Given the U?S at least and probably others have intel into the heart of the Kremlin (eg detailed advance knowledge of the Ukraine invasion) how do you think Russia will get away with this? Sure, there will be a gazillion Twitter twats who will go "Ooh, look, Ukrainian bastards!" but the higher levels of diplomacy will know exactly what gas gone on.

    And Ukraine would lose its military and financial support overnight if they actually did it themselves. So it is beyond any credulity for it to work as the Russians suggest "it was Ukraine wot did it...."
    Russia doesn't care about the truth, here, it cares about perceptions

    If they set off a small dirty bomb and manage to at least temporarily blur the truth of who did it, then that is job done. Everyone will know it was probably Russia - probably - but won't be entirely sure. And everyone will be scared shitless and probably pushing Ukraine to back down

    See the Kerch bombing, the Nordstream bombing, and the Dugin bombing. Each has been successfully blamed on various actors, even though we have a good idea in all cases who did it (Ukraine, USA, Ukraine)
    You think US did nordstream? Interesting. I imagine any nuclear incident would lead to enormous pressure on China and India not to buy Russian oil. China is already alleged to be pretty furious with Putin and their economy is in trouble.
    I am fairly confident the USA did Nordstream, tho they might have used a proxy to get it done yet avoid the blame (Ukraine itself, or maybe the Poles or Finns)

    The strategic prize of keeping Germany on the western side, reliant on America, and also of cutting off Putin's options - one day selling more gas to Europe - was irresistible for Washington. And recall we have several vids of Biden and aides months ago saying the USA would do exactly this: cut Nordsream (one way or another)

    But we cannot be sure. The fog of war obscures the truth. And that fog is what Putin might rely on, if he "does something radioactive"
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I agree that the US is the most likely culprit for the Nordstream sabotage, on the "cui bono" principle. I don't understand what Russia got out of the sabotage, other than saying "look at what we did here, we can do it to something that matters, e.g. the north sea pipeline or a transatlantic communications cable.

    America however benefits enormously from ensuring that Russian gas is cut off and stays cut off. Prevents waverers in Europe if there is a very cold winter. Add to that the fact that Biden literally said the US would "put an end" to Nordstream 2 if Russia attacked Ukraine, back in January.
    1) The Russians send exactly the message you say.

    2) Europe has learnt the hard way the problems with relying on Russia for energy. There was virtually no chance of (say) Germany going back to using it - which is why they've refused once Russia offered a week or so ago.

    3) The implications if the Americans get caught doing it are massive, and not good for them.

    4) For Russia, it adds to the 'Russia stronk!' pathetic meme they like to sell to their population and silly people outside Russia.

    5) The spate of recent cable breaks are *not* to the US's advantage. They are to Russia's.
    It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?

    My view is that by blowing up Nordstream, the US (assuming they are the culprits) ensure that there can be no normalisation of relations in the event of a complete Russian collapse and regime change - thus protecting their long term strategic interests. Put simply, they have the most to benefit from doing it. Especially if they believe a regime change is possible or even near (which they might). If I were America and expected Russia to lose this war quickly, but wanted to prevent a normalisation of relations and a resumption of gas supplies once the new regime was in place, this is *exactly* what I would do. This is simply realpolitik, and every nation state engages in it.

    I don't get what the Russians get out of blowing up Nordstream that they can't get out of snipping a few phone lines in Shetland. The former effs up their income stream from gas for decades, the latter inconveniences a few shepherds while sending a message.

    I really don't understand how America could get "caught" here. Even if there were photos of a grinning Joe Biden planting plastic explosives, while wearing an old-timey diving suit, and giving the thumbs up, the Americans would deny all knowledge, as they always do, and we would still be in "conspiracy theory" territory.
    "It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?"

    To send the message that all out underwater infrastructure is vulnerable. If it was just gas pipelines we *might* be able to protect them; having to protect the vast network of cables as well is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the numbers involved. See https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    And attacking underwater cables might be much more immediately disruptive than even the gas pipelines. One of the most important acts we did in WW1 was cutting the German international cables - and we did that in the first few weeks.

    How could Americans get caught? People talking. Other countries (perhaps those who might want to use pipelines) detecting submarines or ships that did it. Other intelligence means.
    Exactly my point.

    So the Russians are most likely to blame for Shetland - it sends a powerful message, at little cost to them. Whereas blowing up a gas pipeline sends a message "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" at an extraordinary cost to them. Which would be a message the Americans would dearly like to send, especially if they think Putin is about to lose, and they want to set the geopolitical agenda for another 30 years or more.

    So on the cui bono principle, the Russians are obviously responsible for Shetland, but they'd have to be barking mad, and cutting off their own noses to spite their face, to blow up Nordstream.
    Some little time later, the Russians offered to sell gas to Germany via Nordstream 2, if it was activated.

    Which might suggest a motive for damaging the original Nordstream.
    Fair. You're looking at possible motives.

    My point would be, if Nordstream 1 blew up, why would you want to take delivery via Nordstream 2?

    It's like Babylon 4 disappearing then immediately booking a room on Babylon 5.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia has just claimed that Ukraine plan to shoot down a rocket filled with radioactive material over the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

    So, going by Russian logic, that is exactly what Russia will now do. Then they can say Told you so, while scaring the shit out of everyone
    Given the U?S at least and probably others have intel into the heart of the Kremlin (eg detailed advance knowledge of the Ukraine invasion) how do you think Russia will get away with this? Sure, there will be a gazillion Twitter twats who will go "Ooh, look, Ukrainian bastards!" but the higher levels of diplomacy will know exactly what gas gone on.

    And Ukraine would lose its military and financial support overnight if they actually did it themselves. So it is beyond any credulity for it to work as the Russians suggest "it was Ukraine wot did it...."
    Russia doesn't care about the truth, here, it cares about perceptions

    If they set off a small dirty bomb and manage to at least temporarily blur the truth of who did it, then that is job done. Everyone will know it was probably Russia - probably - but won't be entirely sure. And everyone will be scared shitless and probably pushing Ukraine to back down

    See the Kerch bombing, the Nordstream bombing, and the Dugin bombing. Each has been successfully blamed on various actors, even though we have a good idea in all cases who did it (Ukraine, USA, Ukraine)
    You think US did nordstream? Interesting. I imagine any nuclear incident would lead to enormous pressure on China and India not to buy Russian oil. China is already alleged to be pretty furious with Putin and their economy is in trouble.
    I am fairly confident the USA did Nordstream, tho they might have used a proxy to get it done yet avoid the blame (Ukraine itself, or maybe the Poles or Finns)

    The strategic prize of keeping Germany on the western side, reliant on America, and also of cutting off Putin's options - one day selling more gas to Europe - was irresistible for Washington. And recall we have several vids of Biden and aides months ago saying the USA would do exactly this: cut Nordsream (one way or another)

    But we cannot be sure. The fog of war obscures the truth. And that fog is what Putin might rely on, if he "does something radioactive"
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I agree that the US is the most likely culprit for the Nordstream sabotage, on the "cui bono" principle. I don't understand what Russia got out of the sabotage, other than saying "look at what we did here, we can do it to something that matters, e.g. the north sea pipeline or a transatlantic communications cable.

    America however benefits enormously from ensuring that Russian gas is cut off and stays cut off. Prevents waverers in Europe if there is a very cold winter. Add to that the fact that Biden literally said the US would "put an end" to Nordstream 2 if Russia attacked Ukraine, back in January.
    1) The Russians send exactly the message you say.

    2) Europe has learnt the hard way the problems with relying on Russia for energy. There was virtually no chance of (say) Germany going back to using it - which is why they've refused once Russia offered a week or so ago.

    3) The implications if the Americans get caught doing it are massive, and not good for them.

    4) For Russia, it adds to the 'Russia stronk!' pathetic meme they like to sell to their population and silly people outside Russia.

    5) The spate of recent cable breaks are *not* to the US's advantage. They are to Russia's.
    It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?

    My view is that by blowing up Nordstream, the US (assuming they are the culprits) ensure that there can be no normalisation of relations in the event of a complete Russian collapse and regime change - thus protecting their long term strategic interests. Put simply, they have the most to benefit from doing it. Especially if they believe a regime change is possible or even near (which they might). If I were America and expected Russia to lose this war quickly, but wanted to prevent a normalisation of relations and a resumption of gas supplies once the new regime was in place, this is *exactly* what I would do. This is simply realpolitik, and every nation state engages in it.

    I don't get what the Russians get out of blowing up Nordstream that they can't get out of snipping a few phone lines in Shetland. The former effs up their income stream from gas for decades, the latter inconveniences a few shepherds while sending a message.

    I really don't understand how America could get "caught" here. Even if there were photos of a grinning Joe Biden planting plastic explosives, while wearing an old-timey diving suit, and giving the thumbs up, the Americans would deny all knowledge, as they always do, and we would still be in "conspiracy theory" territory.
    "It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?"

    To send the message that all out underwater infrastructure is vulnerable. If it was just gas pipelines we *might* be able to protect them; having to protect the vast network of cables as well is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the numbers involved. See https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    And attacking underwater cables might be much more immediately disruptive than even the gas pipelines. One of the most important acts we did in WW1 was cutting the German international cables - and we did that in the first few weeks.

    How could Americans get caught? People talking. Other countries (perhaps those who might want to use pipelines) detecting submarines or ships that did it. Other intelligence means.
    Exactly my point.

    So the Russians are most likely to blame for Shetland - it sends a powerful message, at little cost to them. Whereas blowing up a gas pipeline sends a message "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" at an extraordinary cost to them. Which would be a message the Americans would dearly like to send, especially if they think Putin is about to lose, and they want to set the geopolitical agenda for another 30 years or more.

    So on the cui bono principle, the Russians are obviously responsible for Shetland, but they'd have to be barking mad, and cutting off their own noses to spite their face, to blow up Nordstream.
    Blowing up NordStream is at zero cost to them because no one is going to use it, as was shown when they offered to sell gas via NS the other week and were rebuffed.

    https://www.cnbctv18.com/energy/russia-putin-gas-supply-europe-nord-stream-2-pipeline-germany-reject-14935701.htm

    Also, the people sending the strongest message of "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" is Russia themselves. They were the ones massively restricting gas supplies earlier in the year on rather spurious grounds; they were the ones insisting on being paid in roubles.

    Also, this does rather rely on assuming the Russians are acting in their own best interests. This entire war - and certainly the parts after the withdrawal from the gates of Kyiv - shows that is a big assumption.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,338
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    Dry martini after dinner?

    Fuck me.
    Don’t be daft!
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    The last (and only) time I went to a three-star restaurant in france for dinner, the next table over was taken by a young smartly-dressed Japanese man whose company was a pot of green tea, a glass of water and the 7 course tasting menu. I rather envied him.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    Cui Bono? Well, among many others, the Dutch, who are doing a booming business in LNG.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383

    mwadams said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    I think it's good to practice not caring too much about what you think other people might be thinking about you.

    If you can do that, there is a lot of pleasure to be had from the peace of your own company.
    Yes indeed, in fact it's a general rule of life. In general, almost nobody is very interested in anything we do unless it's ridiculous or outrageous. If we see someone else sitting on their own, do we speculate about their situation? Nah.
    I sort of do, actually.

    It's the people watching thing.
    I recommend cryptic crosswords when dining or drinking alone. You don't need to concentrate like when you read a book. Think about the clues while you people-watch and eavesdrop, and then if you get noticed quickly look down at the crossword, pen poised. Worked for me for many years.

    As it's you, I recommend The Guardian crossword.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    TimS said:

    It’s over 20C here in the Maconnais at 8.30 and I’m out on the terrace in the dark in short sleeves listening to crickets chirping. It’s nearly November. 25C forecast tomorrow.

    #climatechange.

    Incidentally I worked out the nearest nukeable location is St Yan air force base, 43km to our SW. reckon it would be a smallish warhead for that one rather than a megaton city-destroyer. Lyon 100km to the Soith gets one of them. Possibly Le Creusot or Montceau les Mines 50km to the NW get a small one. Dijon? Far enough away not to worry.

    So I’d see the flash, possibly get a bit of fallout on a Westerly but not too much. Would be like the scene in Empire of the Sun when the boy sees the Nagasaki bomb and thinks it’s his mother going up to heaven.

    Russia doesnt have enough 'megaton' nukes to nuke Lyon with one. They may have a handful of Avangard with a yiekd of 2 to 5mt, but no more than a dozen or so. The Satan 2 Sarmats are not yet operational and the alleged 100mt nuclear torpedo is complete fantasy horseshit. No such weapon exists, they might have a 2mt torpedo but that won't be anywhere near enough to create a tidal wave.
    Most if its arsenal is aging Sarmats with multiple 400 or 800 kt warheads that may or may not work, a few hundred sub launched that may or may not work or be in dock and a hundred air dropped on heavy long range bombers plus their battlefield collection.
    This ain't '62 but any exchange would be pretty grotesque even with all their dusty old crap. Some of it would get through
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803

    mwadams said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    I think it's good to practice not caring too much about what you think other people might be thinking about you.

    If you can do that, there is a lot of pleasure to be had from the peace of your own company.
    Yes indeed, in fact it's a general rule of life. In general, almost nobody is very interested in anything we do unless it's ridiculous or outrageous. If we see someone else sitting on their own, do we speculate about their situation? Nah.
    I sort of do, actually.

    It's the people watching thing.
    I very rarely get a chance to eat or drink alone. But when I do, I almost always get into interesting conversations. Having no companions removes barriers you didn't know were there.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    mwadams said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    I think it's good to practice not caring too much about what you think other people might be thinking about you.

    If you can do that, there is a lot of pleasure to be had from the peace of your own company.
    Yes indeed, in fact it's a general rule of life. In general, almost nobody is very interested in anything we do unless it's ridiculous or outrageous. If we see someone else sitting on their own, do we speculate about their situation? Nah.
    I sort of do, actually.

    It's the people watching thing.
    I recommend cryptic crosswords when dining or drinking alone. You don't need to concentrate like when you read a book. Think about the clues while you people-watch and eavesdrop, and then if you get noticed quickly look down at the crossword, pen poised. Worked for me for many years.

    As it's you, I recommend The Guardian crossword.
    Online diplomacy is good for that sort of thing? If your game has got to an interesting point, you can spend a whole meal analysing next move and not have to keep fiddling with the phone.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Nearly crossover:

    NOM 2.36
    Lab Maj 2.36
    Con Maj 5.9
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Leon said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    Dry martini after dinner?

    Fuck me.
    Don’t be daft!
    Clear spirits followed by wine followed by dark spirits. Sorry, but rules are rules.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749

    Interesting take from former central banker Narayana Kocherlakota.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-10-26/liz-truss-s-ouster-wasn-t-the-markets-doing

    image

    The BOE is becoming a definite problem. Since being granted its independence it seems to have done a sort of reverse takeover of the Treasury, which now seems to need to be granted independence from the Bank.
    I'm no global economics expert, but borrowing billions to give tax cuts to rich people in an unfunded budget doesn't sound like a good idea.
    But now I'm told it was the Bank of England's fault. Really?
    Not sure if you've read the article, but the author blames the budget largely (I think) for the smaller movements in the pound and the FTSE, but the Bank largely for the ongoing issues with gilts and the knock on effect on pensions. I think that's broadly correct.

    If I were Truss and Kwarteng I'd have gone in two footed on the bank, and tested their determination to continue their bond sell off in the court of public opinion. They didn't, probably for good reason. And yes, the budget was poor, and poorly conceived, organised and presented.
    Just as well you aren't Truss and Kwarteng. Only goes to show that however clueless people are, there's always someone worse.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    I would usually rather eat alone than with other people. I mean, other people are fine and all, but I'd usually rather read a book than chat to someone.
    Since I mostly dine alone when I'm on a long-distance walk (sadly infrequently atm), people probably don't talk to me for reasons of fragrance. At least that's what I tell myself. ;)

    Having said that, I did meet a very pleasant Canadian lass in the Pizza Hut in Cockburn Street, Edinburgh many moons ago. I was eating alone, and she asked if she could join me.
    ...and?
    And via a long story, later on the same trip I ended up meeting a lovely Australian lass, who I lived with for four years. ;)

    I love Edinburgh...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    BLIMEY.

    Even nuns watch porn, says Pope

    However, the supreme pontiff warned his ‘brothers’ and ‘sisters’ to ‘be careful’ as ‘the devil enters from there’


    Even nuns and priests watch online pornography, Pope Francis has admitted, in an unusual admonishment of Catholic clergy.

    Indulging in porn is a danger to the soul and a way of succumbing to the malign influence of “the devil”, the Pope warned an assembly of priests and seminarians in Rome.

    “It’s a vice that many people have – many lay people but also priests and nuns. The devil enters from there,” he told the gathering at the Vatican earlier this week.

    “And I’m not just talking about criminal pornography, involving the abuse of children, where you see live cases of abuse. That is already degenerate. I’m talking about ‘normal’ pornography. My dear brothers and sisters, be careful.”

    A person with “a pure heart” should not be looking at porn, the head of the Roman Catholic Church said.

    “If you can cancel it from your phone, then cancel it, then you won’t have temptation in your hand,” he continued.

    “I’m sorry if I lower myself to such details about pornography, but it is reality. A reality that involves priests, seminarians, nuns, all consecrated souls. Have you understood? Good.”

    It is not the first time the Argentinian pontiff has referenced pornography. In June he denounced porn as a threat to public health and the family.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/10/26/even-nuns-watch-porn-says-pope/

    Did he say which websites they use?
    Nope, just know the Pope has just engaged in some bishop bashing.

    Oh my days, if. the Pope mentioned Pornhub.
    It wouldn't be a stepmom though, would it? It would have to be a housekeeper...
    Mrs Doyle?
    "Go on, go on, go on!"
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia has just claimed that Ukraine plan to shoot down a rocket filled with radioactive material over the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

    So, going by Russian logic, that is exactly what Russia will now do. Then they can say Told you so, while scaring the shit out of everyone
    Given the U?S at least and probably others have intel into the heart of the Kremlin (eg detailed advance knowledge of the Ukraine invasion) how do you think Russia will get away with this? Sure, there will be a gazillion Twitter twats who will go "Ooh, look, Ukrainian bastards!" but the higher levels of diplomacy will know exactly what gas gone on.

    And Ukraine would lose its military and financial support overnight if they actually did it themselves. So it is beyond any credulity for it to work as the Russians suggest "it was Ukraine wot did it...."
    Russia doesn't care about the truth, here, it cares about perceptions

    If they set off a small dirty bomb and manage to at least temporarily blur the truth of who did it, then that is job done. Everyone will know it was probably Russia - probably - but won't be entirely sure. And everyone will be scared shitless and probably pushing Ukraine to back down

    See the Kerch bombing, the Nordstream bombing, and the Dugin bombing. Each has been successfully blamed on various actors, even though we have a good idea in all cases who did it (Ukraine, USA, Ukraine)
    You think US did nordstream? Interesting. I imagine any nuclear incident would lead to enormous pressure on China and India not to buy Russian oil. China is already alleged to be pretty furious with Putin and their economy is in trouble.
    I am fairly confident the USA did Nordstream, tho they might have used a proxy to get it done yet avoid the blame (Ukraine itself, or maybe the Poles or Finns)

    The strategic prize of keeping Germany on the western side, reliant on America, and also of cutting off Putin's options - one day selling more gas to Europe - was irresistible for Washington. And recall we have several vids of Biden and aides months ago saying the USA would do exactly this: cut Nordsream (one way or another)

    But we cannot be sure. The fog of war obscures the truth. And that fog is what Putin might rely on, if he "does something radioactive"
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I agree that the US is the most likely culprit for the Nordstream sabotage, on the "cui bono" principle. I don't understand what Russia got out of the sabotage, other than saying "look at what we did here, we can do it to something that matters, e.g. the north sea pipeline or a transatlantic communications cable.

    America however benefits enormously from ensuring that Russian gas is cut off and stays cut off. Prevents waverers in Europe if there is a very cold winter. Add to that the fact that Biden literally said the US would "put an end" to Nordstream 2 if Russia attacked Ukraine, back in January.
    1) The Russians send exactly the message you say.

    2) Europe has learnt the hard way the problems with relying on Russia for energy. There was virtually no chance of (say) Germany going back to using it - which is why they've refused once Russia offered a week or so ago.

    3) The implications if the Americans get caught doing it are massive, and not good for them.

    4) For Russia, it adds to the 'Russia stronk!' pathetic meme they like to sell to their population and silly people outside Russia.

    5) The spate of recent cable breaks are *not* to the US's advantage. They are to Russia's.
    It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?

    My view is that by blowing up Nordstream, the US (assuming they are the culprits) ensure that there can be no normalisation of relations in the event of a complete Russian collapse and regime change - thus protecting their long term strategic interests. Put simply, they have the most to benefit from doing it. Especially if they believe a regime change is possible or even near (which they might). If I were America and expected Russia to lose this war quickly, but wanted to prevent a normalisation of relations and a resumption of gas supplies once the new regime was in place, this is *exactly* what I would do. This is simply realpolitik, and every nation state engages in it.

    I don't get what the Russians get out of blowing up Nordstream that they can't get out of snipping a few phone lines in Shetland. The former effs up their income stream from gas for decades, the latter inconveniences a few shepherds while sending a message.

    I really don't understand how America could get "caught" here. Even if there were photos of a grinning Joe Biden planting plastic explosives, while wearing an old-timey diving suit, and giving the thumbs up, the Americans would deny all knowledge, as they always do, and we would still be in "conspiracy theory" territory.
    "It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?"

    To send the message that all out underwater infrastructure is vulnerable. If it was just gas pipelines we *might* be able to protect them; having to protect the vast network of cables as well is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the numbers involved. See https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    And attacking underwater cables might be much more immediately disruptive than even the gas pipelines. One of the most important acts we did in WW1 was cutting the German international cables - and we did that in the first few weeks.

    How could Americans get caught? People talking. Other countries (perhaps those who might want to use pipelines) detecting submarines or ships that did it. Other intelligence means.
    Exactly my point.

    So the Russians are most likely to blame for Shetland - it sends a powerful message, at little cost to them. Whereas blowing up a gas pipeline sends a message "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" at an extraordinary cost to them. Which would be a message the Americans would dearly like to send, especially if they think Putin is about to lose, and they want to set the geopolitical agenda for another 30 years or more.

    So on the cui bono principle, the Russians are obviously responsible for Shetland, but they'd have to be barking mad, and cutting off their own noses to spite their face, to blow up Nordstream.
    Blowing up NordStream is at zero cost to them because no one is going to use it, as was shown when they offered to sell gas via NS the other week and were rebuffed.

    https://www.cnbctv18.com/energy/russia-putin-gas-supply-europe-nord-stream-2-pipeline-germany-reject-14935701.htm

    Also, the people sending the strongest message of "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" is Russia themselves. They were the ones massively restricting gas supplies earlier in the year on rather spurious grounds; they were the ones insisting on being paid in roubles.

    Also, this does rather rely on assuming the Russians are acting in their own best interests. This entire war - and certainly the parts after the withdrawal from the gates of Kyiv - shows that is a big assumption.
    As with Malmesbury, I think that's a fair point. Russia has proven itself to be an untrustworthy actor and I think you'd have to be mad to deal with them. You can argue the US doesn't need to blow up a pipeline to prove that.

    On the other hand, if there's an exceptionally cold winter and the US sees the possibility of Germany, for example, wavering on Ukraine, in the face of people freezing or rioting because of freezing, there's still a reason to act.

    There are a great number of possible motivations and potential beneficiaries. My view - and I'm far from a Putin stooge - is that the US stands to benefit the most, over the longer term, by preventing a normalisation in trade relations if Putin is overthrown. IMO Putin is clearly losing, and the US wants to prevent a return to "business as usual" in the event of regime change. However, there are plenty of other good, rational motivations for other actors, which is why we'll probably never know for sure.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792

    Years ago I was having a lunchtime drink and meal in a pub during a walk. A much older man entered the pub, stood at the bar, and then came over and asked me if I was (insert my name).

    It turned out he recognised me from me website. It was his local pub, and he was a keen walker. It's the only time that's ever happened, and it felt weird.

    Many years ago I worked for a computer magazine that insisted on having my photo next to the byline. I'll never forget my horror while sat on a train and a guy (obv.) reading a copy of the magazine kept trying to casually peer over the top of it to look at me. My first taste of 'fame' - and I realised I really didn't like it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
    kyf_100 said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    Being a business traveller.

    Meals out for one most nights when I'm travelling, and I rarely eat in the hotel bar (my former employer had a habit of sticking me in shitty hotels I wouldn't eat in, but had no problem with me expensing a damn fine dinner for one).

    If you feel self conscious, just add "and make sure I get a copy of the receipt" to your order, which pretty much says "I'm in some weird part of the world, travelling on company expenses".
    Absolutely. Being a business traveller. Three quarters of my business travel was solo and I never really wanted to dine with the people I was visiting. I wouldn’t spend my non working time with them in the normal course of events so I wouldn’t do it then.

    Also if you are in a pub or restaurant on your own why give a toss what anyone else there thinks. You’re unlikely to see them again.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    Chris said:

    Interesting take from former central banker Narayana Kocherlakota.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-10-26/liz-truss-s-ouster-wasn-t-the-markets-doing

    image

    The BOE is becoming a definite problem. Since being granted its independence it seems to have done a sort of reverse takeover of the Treasury, which now seems to need to be granted independence from the Bank.
    I'm no global economics expert, but borrowing billions to give tax cuts to rich people in an unfunded budget doesn't sound like a good idea.
    But now I'm told it was the Bank of England's fault. Really?
    Not sure if you've read the article, but the author blames the budget largely (I think) for the smaller movements in the pound and the FTSE, but the Bank largely for the ongoing issues with gilts and the knock on effect on pensions. I think that's broadly correct.

    If I were Truss and Kwarteng I'd have gone in two footed on the bank, and tested their determination to continue their bond sell off in the court of public opinion. They didn't, probably for good reason. And yes, the budget was poor, and poorly conceived, organised and presented.
    Just as well you aren't Truss and Kwarteng. Only goes to show that however clueless people are, there's always someone worse.
    That was their best option from where they were after the mini budget. I of course, would not have put together a mini-budget of that nature, nor would i have failed to coordinate it with the Bank in the first place.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Cookie said:

    mwadams said:

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    I think it's good to practice not caring too much about what you think other people might be thinking about you.

    If you can do that, there is a lot of pleasure to be had from the peace of your own company.
    Yes indeed, in fact it's a general rule of life. In general, almost nobody is very interested in anything we do unless it's ridiculous or outrageous. If we see someone else sitting on their own, do we speculate about their situation? Nah.
    I sort of do, actually.

    It's the people watching thing.
    I very rarely get a chance to eat or drink alone. But when I do, I almost always get into interesting conversations. Having no companions removes barriers you didn't know were there.
    Yes, I can agree with that.

    It also makes women more comfortable flirting with you, in a way they are not if you are with another women or a male friend.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,338
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Leon said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Leon said:

    It’s a massive breakthrough when you realise you’ve reached the stage when you actually enjoy dining alone


    Not least, because that means you can travel the world alone and still enjoy really good food at night. And travelling alone is the best for accruing experiences, as we have discussed

    There’s also an interesting gradient of discomfort to be overcome. Breakfast alone is fine for everyone. We all do it. Lunch alone can make you a little more self conscious

    But you’ve only beaten the silly awkwardness when you can waltz into a restaurant and dine alone. Do it with flair and a smile. Dinner for one!

    Then a dry martini. Mmmmm

    Dry martini after dinner?

    Fuck me.
    Don’t be daft!
    Clear spirits followed by wine followed by dark spirits. Sorry, but rules are rules.

    I was AGREEING. A dry Martini after dinner would make me puke. Literally

    Like a cup of warm vodka with Stilton
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    So I am doing my Leonesque "table for one".

    Interesting mix. A couple of tables of 30-something women (yes, yes no; yes, yes, yes, can't see, can't see), the group in earshot talking a lot about nothing. A bunch of male besuited City of London types, some with medals round their necks, two with poppies. And one other bloke on his own.

    Thanks for reading.

    The clientele at TGI Fridays in Dallas/Fort Worth is less rarefied

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    I see the French are no less stroppy on the other side of the pond:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63393955
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,338
    PB at its finest

    1 Are we going to die in a nuclear war in the next week?

    2 Mental strategies for agreeable dining when alone

    3 hahahahah you were SO wrong about Liz Truss
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia has just claimed that Ukraine plan to shoot down a rocket filled with radioactive material over the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

    So, going by Russian logic, that is exactly what Russia will now do. Then they can say Told you so, while scaring the shit out of everyone
    Given the U?S at least and probably others have intel into the heart of the Kremlin (eg detailed advance knowledge of the Ukraine invasion) how do you think Russia will get away with this? Sure, there will be a gazillion Twitter twats who will go "Ooh, look, Ukrainian bastards!" but the higher levels of diplomacy will know exactly what gas gone on.

    And Ukraine would lose its military and financial support overnight if they actually did it themselves. So it is beyond any credulity for it to work as the Russians suggest "it was Ukraine wot did it...."
    Russia doesn't care about the truth, here, it cares about perceptions

    If they set off a small dirty bomb and manage to at least temporarily blur the truth of who did it, then that is job done. Everyone will know it was probably Russia - probably - but won't be entirely sure. And everyone will be scared shitless and probably pushing Ukraine to back down

    See the Kerch bombing, the Nordstream bombing, and the Dugin bombing. Each has been successfully blamed on various actors, even though we have a good idea in all cases who did it (Ukraine, USA, Ukraine)
    You think US did nordstream? Interesting. I imagine any nuclear incident would lead to enormous pressure on China and India not to buy Russian oil. China is already alleged to be pretty furious with Putin and their economy is in trouble.
    I am fairly confident the USA did Nordstream, tho they might have used a proxy to get it done yet avoid the blame (Ukraine itself, or maybe the Poles or Finns)

    The strategic prize of keeping Germany on the western side, reliant on America, and also of cutting off Putin's options - one day selling more gas to Europe - was irresistible for Washington. And recall we have several vids of Biden and aides months ago saying the USA would do exactly this: cut Nordsream (one way or another)

    But we cannot be sure. The fog of war obscures the truth. And that fog is what Putin might rely on, if he "does something radioactive"
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I agree that the US is the most likely culprit for the Nordstream sabotage, on the "cui bono" principle. I don't understand what Russia got out of the sabotage, other than saying "look at what we did here, we can do it to something that matters, e.g. the north sea pipeline or a transatlantic communications cable.

    America however benefits enormously from ensuring that Russian gas is cut off and stays cut off. Prevents waverers in Europe if there is a very cold winter. Add to that the fact that Biden literally said the US would "put an end" to Nordstream 2 if Russia attacked Ukraine, back in January.
    1) The Russians send exactly the message you say.

    2) Europe has learnt the hard way the problems with relying on Russia for energy. There was virtually no chance of (say) Germany going back to using it - which is why they've refused once Russia offered a week or so ago.

    3) The implications if the Americans get caught doing it are massive, and not good for them.

    4) For Russia, it adds to the 'Russia stronk!' pathetic meme they like to sell to their population and silly people outside Russia.

    5) The spate of recent cable breaks are *not* to the US's advantage. They are to Russia's.
    It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?

    My view is that by blowing up Nordstream, the US (assuming they are the culprits) ensure that there can be no normalisation of relations in the event of a complete Russian collapse and regime change - thus protecting their long term strategic interests. Put simply, they have the most to benefit from doing it. Especially if they believe a regime change is possible or even near (which they might). If I were America and expected Russia to lose this war quickly, but wanted to prevent a normalisation of relations and a resumption of gas supplies once the new regime was in place, this is *exactly* what I would do. This is simply realpolitik, and every nation state engages in it.

    I don't get what the Russians get out of blowing up Nordstream that they can't get out of snipping a few phone lines in Shetland. The former effs up their income stream from gas for decades, the latter inconveniences a few shepherds while sending a message.

    I really don't understand how America could get "caught" here. Even if there were photos of a grinning Joe Biden planting plastic explosives, while wearing an old-timey diving suit, and giving the thumbs up, the Americans would deny all knowledge, as they always do, and we would still be in "conspiracy theory" territory.
    "It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?"

    To send the message that all out underwater infrastructure is vulnerable. If it was just gas pipelines we *might* be able to protect them; having to protect the vast network of cables as well is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the numbers involved. See https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    And attacking underwater cables might be much more immediately disruptive than even the gas pipelines. One of the most important acts we did in WW1 was cutting the German international cables - and we did that in the first few weeks.

    How could Americans get caught? People talking. Other countries (perhaps those who might want to use pipelines) detecting submarines or ships that did it. Other intelligence means.
    Exactly my point.

    So the Russians are most likely to blame for Shetland - it sends a powerful message, at little cost to them. Whereas blowing up a gas pipeline sends a message "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" at an extraordinary cost to them. Which would be a message the Americans would dearly like to send, especially if they think Putin is about to lose, and they want to set the geopolitical agenda for another 30 years or more.

    So on the cui bono principle, the Russians are obviously responsible for Shetland, but they'd have to be barking mad, and cutting off their own noses to spite their face, to blow up Nordstream.
    Blowing up NordStream is at zero cost to them because no one is going to use it, as was shown when they offered to sell gas via NS the other week and were rebuffed.

    https://www.cnbctv18.com/energy/russia-putin-gas-supply-europe-nord-stream-2-pipeline-germany-reject-14935701.htm

    Also, the people sending the strongest message of "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" is Russia themselves. They were the ones massively restricting gas supplies earlier in the year on rather spurious grounds; they were the ones insisting on being paid in roubles.

    Also, this does rather rely on assuming the Russians are acting in their own best interests. This entire war - and certainly the parts after the withdrawal from the gates of Kyiv - shows that is a big assumption.
    As with Malmesbury, I think that's a fair point. Russia has proven itself to be an untrustworthy actor and I think you'd have to be mad to deal with them. You can argue the US doesn't need to blow up a pipeline to prove that.

    On the other hand, if there's an exceptionally cold winter and the US sees the possibility of Germany, for example, wavering on Ukraine, in the face of people freezing or rioting because of freezing, there's still a reason to act.

    There are a great number of possible motivations and potential beneficiaries. My view - and I'm far from a Putin stooge - is that the US stands to benefit the most, over the longer term, by preventing a normalisation in trade relations if Putin is overthrown. IMO Putin is clearly losing, and the US wants to prevent a return to "business as usual" in the event of regime change. However, there are plenty of other good, rational motivations for other actors, which is why we'll probably never know for sure.
    But they're all non-immediate factors for the Yanks. *If* they were to do that, then wait for the cold winter. Wait for the normalisation in trade. Doing it now exposes them to risks for rewards that may not happen. Worse, it risks exposing American capabilities (we've suspected Russia has these capabilities for years.)

    Yet for Russia, the potential rewards and messages are very immediate.

    Also, America could achieve similar 'rewards' by other diplomatic means, if they wanted.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,338
    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Fascinating PB thread on Truss’ first PMQs.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/10804/starmer-v-truss-the-first-pmqs-politicalbetting-com/p2

    It’s another world. Such gems as how difficult Labour will find it in 2024 to go up against substantially lower taxes. Lots of praise for her from the usual suspects for her low key approach. In the middle of the discussion someone mentioned that the pound was falling.

    Did we ever get to the bottom of why Leon has a photo of Hitler as his screensaver/wallpaper?
    Yes. It was one of my finest ever wind-ups

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Fascinating PB thread on Truss’ first PMQs.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/10804/starmer-v-truss-the-first-pmqs-politicalbetting-com/p2

    It’s another world. Such gems as how difficult Labour will find it in 2024 to go up against substantially lower taxes. Lots of praise for her from the usual suspects for her low key approach. In the middle of the discussion someone mentioned that the pound was falling.

    Did we ever get to the bottom of why Leon has a photo of Hitler as his screensaver/wallpaper?
    Yes. It was one of my finest ever wind-ups

    Most interesting for me that I never realised the photo itself is probably fake. I’d seen it many times and just accepted it.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia has just claimed that Ukraine plan to shoot down a rocket filled with radioactive material over the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

    So, going by Russian logic, that is exactly what Russia will now do. Then they can say Told you so, while scaring the shit out of everyone
    Given the U?S at least and probably others have intel into the heart of the Kremlin (eg detailed advance knowledge of the Ukraine invasion) how do you think Russia will get away with this? Sure, there will be a gazillion Twitter twats who will go "Ooh, look, Ukrainian bastards!" but the higher levels of diplomacy will know exactly what gas gone on.

    And Ukraine would lose its military and financial support overnight if they actually did it themselves. So it is beyond any credulity for it to work as the Russians suggest "it was Ukraine wot did it...."
    Russia doesn't care about the truth, here, it cares about perceptions

    If they set off a small dirty bomb and manage to at least temporarily blur the truth of who did it, then that is job done. Everyone will know it was probably Russia - probably - but won't be entirely sure. And everyone will be scared shitless and probably pushing Ukraine to back down

    See the Kerch bombing, the Nordstream bombing, and the Dugin bombing. Each has been successfully blamed on various actors, even though we have a good idea in all cases who did it (Ukraine, USA, Ukraine)
    You think US did nordstream? Interesting. I imagine any nuclear incident would lead to enormous pressure on China and India not to buy Russian oil. China is already alleged to be pretty furious with Putin and their economy is in trouble.
    I am fairly confident the USA did Nordstream, tho they might have used a proxy to get it done yet avoid the blame (Ukraine itself, or maybe the Poles or Finns)

    The strategic prize of keeping Germany on the western side, reliant on America, and also of cutting off Putin's options - one day selling more gas to Europe - was irresistible for Washington. And recall we have several vids of Biden and aides months ago saying the USA would do exactly this: cut Nordsream (one way or another)

    But we cannot be sure. The fog of war obscures the truth. And that fog is what Putin might rely on, if he "does something radioactive"
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I agree that the US is the most likely culprit for the Nordstream sabotage, on the "cui bono" principle. I don't understand what Russia got out of the sabotage, other than saying "look at what we did here, we can do it to something that matters, e.g. the north sea pipeline or a transatlantic communications cable.

    America however benefits enormously from ensuring that Russian gas is cut off and stays cut off. Prevents waverers in Europe if there is a very cold winter. Add to that the fact that Biden literally said the US would "put an end" to Nordstream 2 if Russia attacked Ukraine, back in January.
    1) The Russians send exactly the message you say.

    2) Europe has learnt the hard way the problems with relying on Russia for energy. There was virtually no chance of (say) Germany going back to using it - which is why they've refused once Russia offered a week or so ago.

    3) The implications if the Americans get caught doing it are massive, and not good for them.

    4) For Russia, it adds to the 'Russia stronk!' pathetic meme they like to sell to their population and silly people outside Russia.

    5) The spate of recent cable breaks are *not* to the US's advantage. They are to Russia's.
    It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?

    My view is that by blowing up Nordstream, the US (assuming they are the culprits) ensure that there can be no normalisation of relations in the event of a complete Russian collapse and regime change - thus protecting their long term strategic interests. Put simply, they have the most to benefit from doing it. Especially if they believe a regime change is possible or even near (which they might). If I were America and expected Russia to lose this war quickly, but wanted to prevent a normalisation of relations and a resumption of gas supplies once the new regime was in place, this is *exactly* what I would do. This is simply realpolitik, and every nation state engages in it.

    I don't get what the Russians get out of blowing up Nordstream that they can't get out of snipping a few phone lines in Shetland. The former effs up their income stream from gas for decades, the latter inconveniences a few shepherds while sending a message.

    I really don't understand how America could get "caught" here. Even if there were photos of a grinning Joe Biden planting plastic explosives, while wearing an old-timey diving suit, and giving the thumbs up, the Americans would deny all knowledge, as they always do, and we would still be in "conspiracy theory" territory.
    "It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?"

    To send the message that all out underwater infrastructure is vulnerable. If it was just gas pipelines we *might* be able to protect them; having to protect the vast network of cables as well is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the numbers involved. See https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    And attacking underwater cables might be much more immediately disruptive than even the gas pipelines. One of the most important acts we did in WW1 was cutting the German international cables - and we did that in the first few weeks.

    How could Americans get caught? People talking. Other countries (perhaps those who might want to use pipelines) detecting submarines or ships that did it. Other intelligence means.
    Exactly my point.

    So the Russians are most likely to blame for Shetland - it sends a powerful message, at little cost to them. Whereas blowing up a gas pipeline sends a message "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" at an extraordinary cost to them. Which would be a message the Americans would dearly like to send, especially if they think Putin is about to lose, and they want to set the geopolitical agenda for another 30 years or more.

    So on the cui bono principle, the Russians are obviously responsible for Shetland, but they'd have to be barking mad, and cutting off their own noses to spite their face, to blow up Nordstream.
    Blowing up NordStream is at zero cost to them because no one is going to use it, as was shown when they offered to sell gas via NS the other week and were rebuffed.

    https://www.cnbctv18.com/energy/russia-putin-gas-supply-europe-nord-stream-2-pipeline-germany-reject-14935701.htm

    Also, the people sending the strongest message of "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" is Russia themselves. They were the ones massively restricting gas supplies earlier in the year on rather spurious grounds; they were the ones insisting on being paid in roubles.

    Also, this does rather rely on assuming the Russians are acting in their own best interests. This entire war - and certainly the parts after the withdrawal from the gates of Kyiv - shows that is a big assumption.
    As with Malmesbury, I think that's a fair point. Russia has proven itself to be an untrustworthy actor and I think you'd have to be mad to deal with them. You can argue the US doesn't need to blow up a pipeline to prove that.

    On the other hand, if there's an exceptionally cold winter and the US sees the possibility of Germany, for example, wavering on Ukraine, in the face of people freezing or rioting because of freezing, there's still a reason to act.

    There are a great number of possible motivations and potential beneficiaries. My view - and I'm far from a Putin stooge - is that the US stands to benefit the most, over the longer term, by preventing a normalisation in trade relations if Putin is overthrown. IMO Putin is clearly losing, and the US wants to prevent a return to "business as usual" in the event of regime change. However, there are plenty of other good, rational motivations for other actors, which is why we'll probably never know for sure.
    But they're all non-immediate factors for the Yanks. *If* they were to do that, then wait for the cold winter. Wait for the normalisation in trade. Doing it now exposes them to risks for rewards that may not happen. Worse, it risks exposing American capabilities (we've suspected Russia has these capabilities for years.)

    Yet for Russia, the potential rewards and messages are very immediate.

    Also, America could achieve similar 'rewards' by other diplomatic means, if they wanted.
    I think that's a very valid argument.

    My view is that the US has a very clear understanding of its long term goals and doesn't want the situation to be normalised in the event of Putin being thrown out of a window next week. But your narrative is absolutely equally as valid.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    Not giving a shit what strangers think about you

  • I see the French are no less stroppy on the other side of the pond:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63393955

    They just want to take back control from their unelected rulers.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Ishmael_Z said:

    So I am doing my Leonesque "table for one".

    Interesting mix. A couple of tables of 30-something women (yes, yes no; yes, yes, yes, can't see, can't see), the group in earshot talking a lot about nothing. A bunch of male besuited City of London types, some with medals round their necks, two with poppies. And one other bloke on his own.

    Thanks for reading.

    I'd forgotten Poppymas was almost upon us. I wonder if lamenting her late maj will in some way be brought into the narrative this year.

    The medals thing is a bit weird.
    Sounds like they could have been Parish Clerks or something wearing their seals on a ribbon
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    .
    Leon said:

    PB at its finest

    1 Are we going to die in a nuclear war in the next week?

    2 Mental strategies for agreeable dining when alone

    3 hahahahah you were SO wrong about Liz Truss

    Not quite. We need an awesome pun somewhere, as we are after all pundits.

    We also need a discussion of the appropriate response to somebody who orders a pizza with pineapple on it.

    While Radiohead is playing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    Cookie said:


    Anyway. A magical evening this evening. The Enchanted Forest on Pitlochry. I had never heard of it until.it was recommended a couple of months backby one of our friendly Scottish contingent - but it appears to be a big deal in these parts. "Oh, you're going to the enchanted forest" they'll say, with a smile, as if you've just discovered a big and wonderful secret. "You'll have a great time." And we did. The family - the wife especially - are connosseurs of a light show, but this was something else. Ethereal, trippy, mystical, spectacular. We walked round with big happy, soppy smiles on our faces.
    As a happy postscript, heading back down the A9 to Dunkeld the sky suddenly cleared. There was a "wow" from the daughter on the right as she saw the dazzling array of stars - and then when we got back to our accommodation the same noise from everyone as we piled out of the car. Utterly astonishing. The girls had never seen anything like it. You could see the Milky Way. You could see shooting stars. Even for adults who had seen one or two starry skies in the past it was astonishing.

    I'm delighted that you enjoyed it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,338
    TimS said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia has just claimed that Ukraine plan to shoot down a rocket filled with radioactive material over the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

    So, going by Russian logic, that is exactly what Russia will now do. Then they can say Told you so, while scaring the shit out of everyone
    Given the U?S at least and probably others have intel into the heart of the Kremlin (eg detailed advance knowledge of the Ukraine invasion) how do you think Russia will get away with this? Sure, there will be a gazillion Twitter twats who will go "Ooh, look, Ukrainian bastards!" but the higher levels of diplomacy will know exactly what gas gone on.

    And Ukraine would lose its military and financial support overnight if they actually did it themselves. So it is beyond any credulity for it to work as the Russians suggest "it was Ukraine wot did it...."
    Russia doesn't care about the truth, here, it cares about perceptions

    If they set off a small dirty bomb and manage to at least temporarily blur the truth of who did it, then that is job done. Everyone will know it was probably Russia - probably - but won't be entirely sure. And everyone will be scared shitless and probably pushing Ukraine to back down

    See the Kerch bombing, the Nordstream bombing, and the Dugin bombing. Each has been successfully blamed on various actors, even though we have a good idea in all cases who did it (Ukraine, USA, Ukraine)
    You think US did nordstream? Interesting. I imagine any nuclear incident would lead to enormous pressure on China and India not to buy Russian oil. China is already alleged to be pretty furious with Putin and their economy is in trouble.
    I am fairly confident the USA did Nordstream, tho they might have used a proxy to get it done yet avoid the blame (Ukraine itself, or maybe the Poles or Finns)

    The strategic prize of keeping Germany on the western side, reliant on America, and also of cutting off Putin's options - one day selling more gas to Europe - was irresistible for Washington. And recall we have several vids of Biden and aides months ago saying the USA would do exactly this: cut Nordsream (one way or another)

    But we cannot be sure. The fog of war obscures the truth. And that fog is what Putin might rely on, if he "does something radioactive"
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I agree that the US is the most likely culprit for the Nordstream sabotage, on the "cui bono" principle. I don't understand what Russia got out of the sabotage, other than saying "look at what we did here, we can do it to something that matters, e.g. the north sea pipeline or a transatlantic communications cable.

    America however benefits enormously from ensuring that Russian gas is cut off and stays cut off. Prevents waverers in Europe if there is a very cold winter. Add to that the fact that Biden literally said the US would "put an end" to Nordstream 2 if Russia attacked Ukraine, back in January.
    1) The Russians send exactly the message you say.

    2) Europe has learnt the hard way the problems with relying on Russia for energy. There was virtually no chance of (say) Germany going back to using it - which is why they've refused once Russia offered a week or so ago.

    3) The implications if the Americans get caught doing it are massive, and not good for them.

    4) For Russia, it adds to the 'Russia stronk!' pathetic meme they like to sell to their population and silly people outside Russia.

    5) The spate of recent cable breaks are *not* to the US's advantage. They are to Russia's.
    It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?

    My view is that by blowing up Nordstream, the US (assuming they are the culprits) ensure that there can be no normalisation of relations in the event of a complete Russian collapse and regime change - thus protecting their long term strategic interests. Put simply, they have the most to benefit from doing it. Especially if they believe a regime change is possible or even near (which they might). If I were America and expected Russia to lose this war quickly, but wanted to prevent a normalisation of relations and a resumption of gas supplies once the new regime was in place, this is *exactly* what I would do. This is simply realpolitik, and every nation state engages in it.

    I don't get what the Russians get out of blowing up Nordstream that they can't get out of snipping a few phone lines in Shetland. The former effs up their income stream from gas for decades, the latter inconveniences a few shepherds while sending a message.

    I really don't understand how America could get "caught" here. Even if there were photos of a grinning Joe Biden planting plastic explosives, while wearing an old-timey diving suit, and giving the thumbs up, the Americans would deny all knowledge, as they always do, and we would still be in "conspiracy theory" territory.
    "It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?"

    To send the message that all out underwater infrastructure is vulnerable. If it was just gas pipelines we *might* be able to protect them; having to protect the vast network of cables as well is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the numbers involved. See https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    And attacking underwater cables might be much more immediately disruptive than even the gas pipelines. One of the most important acts we did in WW1 was cutting the German international cables - and we did that in the first few weeks.

    How could Americans get caught? People talking. Other countries (perhaps those who might want to use pipelines) detecting submarines or ships that did it. Other intelligence means.
    Exactly my point.

    So the Russians are most likely to blame for Shetland - it sends a powerful message, at little cost to them. Whereas blowing up a gas pipeline sends a message "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" at an extraordinary cost to them. Which would be a message the Americans would dearly like to send, especially if they think Putin is about to lose, and they want to set the geopolitical agenda for another 30 years or more.

    So on the cui bono principle, the Russians are obviously responsible for Shetland, but they'd have to be barking mad, and cutting off their own noses to spite their face, to blow up Nordstream.
    Some little time later, the Russians offered to sell gas to Germany via Nordstream 2, if it was activated.

    Which might suggest a motive for damaging the original Nordstream.
    Only one country is desperate and ready to escalate beyond common sense, and only one has anything meaningful to gain from scaring the Europeans about gas supplies. The Americans didn’t even want to to export LNG until a couple of years ago, for national security reasons. Cheap American gas is more important than exports.

    Only one country has been persistently hovering around both gas pipelines and telecoms cables for years, acting menacing.

    It was a warning to Europe, with the added benefit of hoping to bring NS2 back on the table. A warning that didn’t work.
    Aww. Bless. You really believe that


    “US Secretary of State #Blinken on the destruction of #NordStream2 in the text:

    "This presents a tremendous strategic opportunity for years to come. It is a tremendous opportunity to end dependence on Russian energy once and for all."

    "tremendous" for whom?”

    https://twitter.com/descolonizadora/status/1583934266517250049?s=46&t=EQOdPn76BnAzNBEguy889g
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    I see the French are no less stroppy on the other side of the pond:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63393955

    They just want to take back control from their unelected rulers.
    So you're allying yourself with the French?

    We need to put you in the Tower.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Cookie said:


    Anyway. A magical evening this evening. The Enchanted Forest on Pitlochry. I had never heard of it until.it was recommended a couple of months backby one of our friendly Scottish contingent - but it appears to be a big deal in these parts. "Oh, you're going to the enchanted forest" they'll say, with a smile, as if you've just discovered a big and wonderful secret. "You'll have a great time." And we did. The family - the wife especially - are connosseurs of a light show, but this was something else. Ethereal, trippy, mystical, spectacular. We walked round with big happy, soppy smiles on our faces.
    As a happy postscript, heading back down the A9 to Dunkeld the sky suddenly cleared. There was a "wow" from the daughter on the right as she saw the dazzling array of stars - and then when we got back to our accommodation the same noise from everyone as we piled out of the car. Utterly astonishing. The girls had never seen anything like it. You could see the Milky Way. You could see shooting stars. Even for adults who had seen one or two starry skies in the past it was astonishing.

    That does look rather stunning.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    I’m not one for primary research, but…

    3 out of the 6 flights I have done with American so far this week have had maintenance issues with their planes

    That’s a pretty high percentage
  • I see the French are no less stroppy on the other side of the pond:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63393955

    They just want to take back control from their unelected rulers.
    So you're allying yourself with the French?

    We need to put you in the Tower.
    Yesterday you wanted to do a deal with the French rather than invade them.

    That's Tower worthy behaviour
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    It’s completely not acceptable in any culture but I’m enjoying a late evening pastis, as I always do when in the French residence and never at other times.

    I’m not even in the Midi, but the chirping crickets and long-fetch globally warmed Southerly demand it.

    But I just heard my wife opening some Corsican red which I annoyingly can’t now drink, not after a pastis. And it seems she’s declared its time for scrabble which she always wins.

    The other true (northern) French oddity I do love a bit of is Picon bière. Bought a bottle of
    Picon yesterday which should last years and is probably nuclear Armageddon-proof.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited October 2022

    Interesting take from former central banker Narayana Kocherlakota.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-10-26/liz-truss-s-ouster-wasn-t-the-markets-doing

    image

    The BOE is becoming a definite problem. Since being granted its independence it seems to have done a sort of reverse takeover of the Treasury, which now seems to need to be granted independence from the Bank.
    I agree with you to a surprising extent. The Bank of England pursues a monetary policy, which is political, without reference to the policy of the elected government. There can be a big tension. Truss and Kwarteng's mistake was going all-in on a fiscal policy incompatible with the Bank's monetary policy. They should have managed that tension, but the Bank has responsibility too. It needs to work with the government to get to a viable compromise.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia has just claimed that Ukraine plan to shoot down a rocket filled with radioactive material over the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

    So, going by Russian logic, that is exactly what Russia will now do. Then they can say Told you so, while scaring the shit out of everyone
    Given the U?S at least and probably others have intel into the heart of the Kremlin (eg detailed advance knowledge of the Ukraine invasion) how do you think Russia will get away with this? Sure, there will be a gazillion Twitter twats who will go "Ooh, look, Ukrainian bastards!" but the higher levels of diplomacy will know exactly what gas gone on.

    And Ukraine would lose its military and financial support overnight if they actually did it themselves. So it is beyond any credulity for it to work as the Russians suggest "it was Ukraine wot did it...."
    Russia doesn't care about the truth, here, it cares about perceptions

    If they set off a small dirty bomb and manage to at least temporarily blur the truth of who did it, then that is job done. Everyone will know it was probably Russia - probably - but won't be entirely sure. And everyone will be scared shitless and probably pushing Ukraine to back down

    See the Kerch bombing, the Nordstream bombing, and the Dugin bombing. Each has been successfully blamed on various actors, even though we have a good idea in all cases who did it (Ukraine, USA, Ukraine)
    You think US did nordstream? Interesting. I imagine any nuclear incident would lead to enormous pressure on China and India not to buy Russian oil. China is already alleged to be pretty furious with Putin and their economy is in trouble.
    I am fairly confident the USA did Nordstream, tho they might have used a proxy to get it done yet avoid the blame (Ukraine itself, or maybe the Poles or Finns)

    The strategic prize of keeping Germany on the western side, reliant on America, and also of cutting off Putin's options - one day selling more gas to Europe - was irresistible for Washington. And recall we have several vids of Biden and aides months ago saying the USA would do exactly this: cut Nordsream (one way or another)

    But we cannot be sure. The fog of war obscures the truth. And that fog is what Putin might rely on, if he "does something radioactive"
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I agree that the US is the most likely culprit for the Nordstream sabotage, on the "cui bono" principle. I don't understand what Russia got out of the sabotage, other than saying "look at what we did here, we can do it to something that matters, e.g. the north sea pipeline or a transatlantic communications cable.

    America however benefits enormously from ensuring that Russian gas is cut off and stays cut off. Prevents waverers in Europe if there is a very cold winter. Add to that the fact that Biden literally said the US would "put an end" to Nordstream 2 if Russia attacked Ukraine, back in January.
    1) The Russians send exactly the message you say.

    2) Europe has learnt the hard way the problems with relying on Russia for energy. There was virtually no chance of (say) Germany going back to using it - which is why they've refused once Russia offered a week or so ago.

    3) The implications if the Americans get caught doing it are massive, and not good for them.

    4) For Russia, it adds to the 'Russia stronk!' pathetic meme they like to sell to their population and silly people outside Russia.

    5) The spate of recent cable breaks are *not* to the US's advantage. They are to Russia's.
    It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?

    My view is that by blowing up Nordstream, the US (assuming they are the culprits) ensure that there can be no normalisation of relations in the event of a complete Russian collapse and regime change - thus protecting their long term strategic interests. Put simply, they have the most to benefit from doing it. Especially if they believe a regime change is possible or even near (which they might). If I were America and expected Russia to lose this war quickly, but wanted to prevent a normalisation of relations and a resumption of gas supplies once the new regime was in place, this is *exactly* what I would do. This is simply realpolitik, and every nation state engages in it.

    I don't get what the Russians get out of blowing up Nordstream that they can't get out of snipping a few phone lines in Shetland. The former effs up their income stream from gas for decades, the latter inconveniences a few shepherds while sending a message.

    I really don't understand how America could get "caught" here. Even if there were photos of a grinning Joe Biden planting plastic explosives, while wearing an old-timey diving suit, and giving the thumbs up, the Americans would deny all knowledge, as they always do, and we would still be in "conspiracy theory" territory.
    "It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?"

    To send the message that all out underwater infrastructure is vulnerable. If it was just gas pipelines we *might* be able to protect them; having to protect the vast network of cables as well is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the numbers involved. See https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    And attacking underwater cables might be much more immediately disruptive than even the gas pipelines. One of the most important acts we did in WW1 was cutting the German international cables - and we did that in the first few weeks.

    How could Americans get caught? People talking. Other countries (perhaps those who might want to use pipelines) detecting submarines or ships that did it. Other intelligence means.
    Exactly my point.

    So the Russians are most likely to blame for Shetland - it sends a powerful message, at little cost to them. Whereas blowing up a gas pipeline sends a message "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" at an extraordinary cost to them. Which would be a message the Americans would dearly like to send, especially if they think Putin is about to lose, and they want to set the geopolitical agenda for another 30 years or more.

    So on the cui bono principle, the Russians are obviously responsible for Shetland, but they'd have to be barking mad, and cutting off their own noses to spite their face, to blow up Nordstream.
    Some little time later, the Russians offered to sell gas to Germany via Nordstream 2, if it was activated.

    Which might suggest a motive for damaging the original Nordstream.
    Fair. You're looking at possible motives.

    My point would be, if Nordstream 1 blew up, why would you want to take delivery via Nordstream 2?

    It's like Babylon 4 disappearing then immediately booking a room on Babylon 5.
    Babylon 5 didn’t have an occupancy problem…

    I think Putin may have been trying for “I have altered the deal. Pray that I don’t alter it further.”

    Forcing the Germans to fire up Nordstream 2 would be a victory for him.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876
    Obviously, I don't go to the "right" places.

    In the Barking Road, it's perfectly possible to have a table to yourself yet still engage in animated conversation with the three tables near you so you get the benefits of solo dining along with convivial (to a point) conversation.

    Back to politics - after three months of getting worked over more frequently than a (fill in the analogy) at a (fill in the rest of the analogy) the Conservatives have found the unity of desperation and have recognised the old maxim if they don't hang together they'll hang separately.

    It'll be interesting to see how long this new unity holds but the baying and shouting at PMQs all sounded a bit forced, a bit desperate. Starmer and Labour still have a way to go to No.10 but they're much further down the road than seemed likely 12 months ago and even 6 months ago.

    The best you can say is the Conservatives have probably stopped being mistakes - Braverman apart - and so Starmer will have to start earning his corn again by attacking the policies and the record and of course starting to give us a clue as to what a mid-2020s Labour Government might do and look like.

    It may even be the coming winter isn't the dystopia some have predicted though it will be difficult for many and the margin for error is non existent. The delay of the financial statement suggests to this observer some very hard conversations within Government and the Sunak-Hunt relationship will be critical. It will be fascinating to see if what is produced in the middle of next month is Hunt's work or whether it has Sunak's fingerprints all over it.

    Tax rises and spending cuts are rarely popular and the scope for the latter now isn't what it was in 2010 for example. The demands on public sector spending are and remain considerable and unrelenting. Knowing Sunak, he will seek all manner of clever ways to raise funds without it impacting too directly on people though business and some other sectors may not agree.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    I’m not one for primary research, but…

    3 out of the 6 flights I have done with American so far this week have had maintenance issues with their planes

    That’s a pretty high percentage

    Not one for primary research?!?

    My entire life has been primary research. Hard to conceive of the alternative. Sad face.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia has just claimed that Ukraine plan to shoot down a rocket filled with radioactive material over the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

    So, going by Russian logic, that is exactly what Russia will now do. Then they can say Told you so, while scaring the shit out of everyone
    Given the U?S at least and probably others have intel into the heart of the Kremlin (eg detailed advance knowledge of the Ukraine invasion) how do you think Russia will get away with this? Sure, there will be a gazillion Twitter twats who will go "Ooh, look, Ukrainian bastards!" but the higher levels of diplomacy will know exactly what gas gone on.

    And Ukraine would lose its military and financial support overnight if they actually did it themselves. So it is beyond any credulity for it to work as the Russians suggest "it was Ukraine wot did it...."
    Russia doesn't care about the truth, here, it cares about perceptions

    If they set off a small dirty bomb and manage to at least temporarily blur the truth of who did it, then that is job done. Everyone will know it was probably Russia - probably - but won't be entirely sure. And everyone will be scared shitless and probably pushing Ukraine to back down

    See the Kerch bombing, the Nordstream bombing, and the Dugin bombing. Each has been successfully blamed on various actors, even though we have a good idea in all cases who did it (Ukraine, USA, Ukraine)
    You think US did nordstream? Interesting. I imagine any nuclear incident would lead to enormous pressure on China and India not to buy Russian oil. China is already alleged to be pretty furious with Putin and their economy is in trouble.
    I am fairly confident the USA did Nordstream, tho they might have used a proxy to get it done yet avoid the blame (Ukraine itself, or maybe the Poles or Finns)

    The strategic prize of keeping Germany on the western side, reliant on America, and also of cutting off Putin's options - one day selling more gas to Europe - was irresistible for Washington. And recall we have several vids of Biden and aides months ago saying the USA would do exactly this: cut Nordsream (one way or another)

    But we cannot be sure. The fog of war obscures the truth. And that fog is what Putin might rely on, if he "does something radioactive"
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I agree that the US is the most likely culprit for the Nordstream sabotage, on the "cui bono" principle. I don't understand what Russia got out of the sabotage, other than saying "look at what we did here, we can do it to something that matters, e.g. the north sea pipeline or a transatlantic communications cable.

    America however benefits enormously from ensuring that Russian gas is cut off and stays cut off. Prevents waverers in Europe if there is a very cold winter. Add to that the fact that Biden literally said the US would "put an end" to Nordstream 2 if Russia attacked Ukraine, back in January.
    1) The Russians send exactly the message you say.

    2) Europe has learnt the hard way the problems with relying on Russia for energy. There was virtually no chance of (say) Germany going back to using it - which is why they've refused once Russia offered a week or so ago.

    3) The implications if the Americans get caught doing it are massive, and not good for them.

    4) For Russia, it adds to the 'Russia stronk!' pathetic meme they like to sell to their population and silly people outside Russia.

    5) The spate of recent cable breaks are *not* to the US's advantage. They are to Russia's.
    It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?

    My view is that by blowing up Nordstream, the US (assuming they are the culprits) ensure that there can be no normalisation of relations in the event of a complete Russian collapse and regime change - thus protecting their long term strategic interests. Put simply, they have the most to benefit from doing it. Especially if they believe a regime change is possible or even near (which they might). If I were America and expected Russia to lose this war quickly, but wanted to prevent a normalisation of relations and a resumption of gas supplies once the new regime was in place, this is *exactly* what I would do. This is simply realpolitik, and every nation state engages in it.

    I don't get what the Russians get out of blowing up Nordstream that they can't get out of snipping a few phone lines in Shetland. The former effs up their income stream from gas for decades, the latter inconveniences a few shepherds while sending a message.

    I really don't understand how America could get "caught" here. Even if there were photos of a grinning Joe Biden planting plastic explosives, while wearing an old-timey diving suit, and giving the thumbs up, the Americans would deny all knowledge, as they always do, and we would still be in "conspiracy theory" territory.
    "It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?"

    To send the message that all out underwater infrastructure is vulnerable. If it was just gas pipelines we *might* be able to protect them; having to protect the vast network of cables as well is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the numbers involved. See https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    And attacking underwater cables might be much more immediately disruptive than even the gas pipelines. One of the most important acts we did in WW1 was cutting the German international cables - and we did that in the first few weeks.

    How could Americans get caught? People talking. Other countries (perhaps those who might want to use pipelines) detecting submarines or ships that did it. Other intelligence means.
    Exactly my point.

    So the Russians are most likely to blame for Shetland - it sends a powerful message, at little cost to them. Whereas blowing up a gas pipeline sends a message "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" at an extraordinary cost to them. Which would be a message the Americans would dearly like to send, especially if they think Putin is about to lose, and they want to set the geopolitical agenda for another 30 years or more.

    So on the cui bono principle, the Russians are obviously responsible for Shetland, but they'd have to be barking mad, and cutting off their own noses to spite their face, to blow up Nordstream.
    Some little time later, the Russians offered to sell gas to Germany via Nordstream 2, if it was activated.

    Which might suggest a motive for damaging the original Nordstream.
    Only one country is desperate and ready to escalate beyond common sense, and only one has anything meaningful to gain from scaring the Europeans about gas supplies. The Americans didn’t even want to to export LNG until a couple of years ago, for national security reasons. Cheap American gas is more important than exports.

    Only one country has been persistently hovering around both gas pipelines and telecoms cables for years, acting menacing.

    It was a warning to Europe, with the added benefit of hoping to bring NS2 back on the table. A warning that didn’t work.
    Aww. Bless. You really believe that


    “US Secretary of State #Blinken on the destruction of #NordStream2 in the text:

    "This presents a tremendous strategic opportunity for years to come. It is a tremendous opportunity to end dependence on Russian energy once and for all."

    "tremendous" for whom?”

    https://twitter.com/descolonizadora/status/1583934266517250049?s=46&t=EQOdPn76BnAzNBEguy889g
    Yes I believe that. I see decidedly marginal gains and major potential losses to any American administration attempting something like this.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    I see the French are no less stroppy on the other side of the pond:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63393955

    They just want to take back control from their unelected rulers.
    So you're allying yourself with the French?

    We need to put you in the Tower.
    Yesterday you wanted to do a deal with the French rather than invade them.

    That's Tower worthy behaviour
    I'm playing a long game.

    I want to secretly slip a clause into the deal compelling them to honour the Treaty of Troyes.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:


    Anyway. A magical evening this evening. The Enchanted Forest on Pitlochry. I had never heard of it until.it was recommended a couple of months backby one of our friendly Scottish contingent - but it appears to be a big deal in these parts. "Oh, you're going to the enchanted forest" they'll say, with a smile, as if you've just discovered a big and wonderful secret. "You'll have a great time." And we did. The family - the wife especially - are connosseurs of a light show, but this was something else. Ethereal, trippy, mystical, spectacular. We walked round with big happy, soppy smiles on our faces.
    As a happy postscript, heading back down the A9 to Dunkeld the sky suddenly cleared. There was a "wow" from the daughter on the right as she saw the dazzling array of stars - and then when we got back to our accommodation the same noise from everyone as we piled out of the car. Utterly astonishing. The girls had never seen anything like it. You could see the Milky Way. You could see shooting stars. Even for adults who had seen one or two starry skies in the past it was astonishing.

    That does look rather stunning.
    It was. And inasmuch as it had a theme, which was not very much, the theme was 'together' - which sounds a lot sappier than it was in practice. It does mean, though, that I still have burned into my retinas images of the silhouettes of my daughters before the neon slogans "tied with invisible strings" and "we journey together". You can see why I'd be feeling a little emotional.
    Though look over now and my youngest is plugged into a screen. Time to get the bedtime stories out...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    TimS said:

    It’s over 20C here in the Maconnais at 8.30 and I’m out on the terrace in the dark in short sleeves listening to crickets chirping. It’s nearly November. 25C forecast tomorrow.

    #climatechange.

    Incidentally I worked out the nearest nukeable location is St Yan air force base, 43km to our SW. reckon it would be a smallish warhead for that one rather than a megaton city-destroyer. Lyon 100km to the Soith gets one of them. Possibly Le Creusot or Montceau les Mines 50km to the NW get a small one. Dijon? Far enough away not to worry.

    So I’d see the flash, possibly get a bit of fallout on a Westerly but not too much. Would be like the scene in Empire of the Sun when the boy sees the Nagasaki bomb and thinks it’s his mother going up to heaven.

    Russia doesnt have enough 'megaton' nukes to nuke Lyon with one. They may have a handful of Avangard with a yiekd of 2 to 5mt, but no more than a dozen or so. The Satan 2 Sarmats are not yet operational and the alleged 100mt nuclear torpedo is complete fantasy horseshit. No such weapon exists, they might have a 2mt torpedo but that won't be anywhere near enough to create a tidal wave.
    Most if its arsenal is aging Sarmats with multiple 400 or 800 kt warheads that may or may not work, a few hundred sub launched that may or may not work or be in dock and a hundred air dropped on heavy long range bombers plus their battlefield collection.
    This ain't '62 but any exchange would be pretty grotesque even with all their dusty old crap. Some of it would get through
    The fun bit about the 100 megaton torpedo is that it was a fantasy from the 1960s - previously proposed and developed in secret without the cooperation of the Soviet Navy. Who binned the project the moment they found out, on the grounds that it was a useless waste of time.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    Thanks to the insights of my fellow PBers I am now comfortable in the knowledge that as soon as I left the restaurant yes, yes, no at the next table started to discuss how much they wanted to shag the loner in the cardigan.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:


    Anyway. A magical evening this evening. The Enchanted Forest on Pitlochry. I had never heard of it until.it was recommended a couple of months backby one of our friendly Scottish contingent - but it appears to be a big deal in these parts. "Oh, you're going to the enchanted forest" they'll say, with a smile, as if you've just discovered a big and wonderful secret. "You'll have a great time." And we did. The family - the wife especially - are connosseurs of a light show, but this was something else. Ethereal, trippy, mystical, spectacular. We walked round with big happy, soppy smiles on our faces.
    As a happy postscript, heading back down the A9 to Dunkeld the sky suddenly cleared. There was a "wow" from the daughter on the right as she saw the dazzling array of stars - and then when we got back to our accommodation the same noise from everyone as we piled out of the car. Utterly astonishing. The girls had never seen anything like it. You could see the Milky Way. You could see shooting stars. Even for adults who had seen one or two starry skies in the past it was astonishing.

    That does look rather stunning.
    Some years ago a couple of friends came to stay at our Wiltshire home. We are on the very edge of the town, and by the side of the house there is no light at all to get in the way. Friends were astonished to see the Milky Way, as both had never seen it before, being city dwellers.
    Modern life is great with heat and light and all, but there is something primal about seeing the night sky without any human made light intruding.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    I see the French are no less stroppy on the other side of the pond:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63393955

    They just want to take back control from their unelected rulers.
    So you're allying yourself with the French?

    We need to put you in the Tower.
    Yesterday you wanted to do a deal with the French rather than invade them.

    That's Tower worthy behaviour
    Invade them first. Then do a deal.

    That’s the process. Treaty of Troyes etc.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia has just claimed that Ukraine plan to shoot down a rocket filled with radioactive material over the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

    So, going by Russian logic, that is exactly what Russia will now do. Then they can say Told you so, while scaring the shit out of everyone
    Given the U?S at least and probably others have intel into the heart of the Kremlin (eg detailed advance knowledge of the Ukraine invasion) how do you think Russia will get away with this? Sure, there will be a gazillion Twitter twats who will go "Ooh, look, Ukrainian bastards!" but the higher levels of diplomacy will know exactly what gas gone on.

    And Ukraine would lose its military and financial support overnight if they actually did it themselves. So it is beyond any credulity for it to work as the Russians suggest "it was Ukraine wot did it...."
    Russia doesn't care about the truth, here, it cares about perceptions

    If they set off a small dirty bomb and manage to at least temporarily blur the truth of who did it, then that is job done. Everyone will know it was probably Russia - probably - but won't be entirely sure. And everyone will be scared shitless and probably pushing Ukraine to back down

    See the Kerch bombing, the Nordstream bombing, and the Dugin bombing. Each has been successfully blamed on various actors, even though we have a good idea in all cases who did it (Ukraine, USA, Ukraine)
    You think US did nordstream? Interesting. I imagine any nuclear incident would lead to enormous pressure on China and India not to buy Russian oil. China is already alleged to be pretty furious with Putin and their economy is in trouble.
    I am fairly confident the USA did Nordstream, tho they might have used a proxy to get it done yet avoid the blame (Ukraine itself, or maybe the Poles or Finns)

    The strategic prize of keeping Germany on the western side, reliant on America, and also of cutting off Putin's options - one day selling more gas to Europe - was irresistible for Washington. And recall we have several vids of Biden and aides months ago saying the USA would do exactly this: cut Nordsream (one way or another)

    But we cannot be sure. The fog of war obscures the truth. And that fog is what Putin might rely on, if he "does something radioactive"
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I agree that the US is the most likely culprit for the Nordstream sabotage, on the "cui bono" principle. I don't understand what Russia got out of the sabotage, other than saying "look at what we did here, we can do it to something that matters, e.g. the north sea pipeline or a transatlantic communications cable.

    America however benefits enormously from ensuring that Russian gas is cut off and stays cut off. Prevents waverers in Europe if there is a very cold winter. Add to that the fact that Biden literally said the US would "put an end" to Nordstream 2 if Russia attacked Ukraine, back in January.
    1) The Russians send exactly the message you say.

    2) Europe has learnt the hard way the problems with relying on Russia for energy. There was virtually no chance of (say) Germany going back to using it - which is why they've refused once Russia offered a week or so ago.

    3) The implications if the Americans get caught doing it are massive, and not good for them.

    4) For Russia, it adds to the 'Russia stronk!' pathetic meme they like to sell to their population and silly people outside Russia.

    5) The spate of recent cable breaks are *not* to the US's advantage. They are to Russia's.
    It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?

    My view is that by blowing up Nordstream, the US (assuming they are the culprits) ensure that there can be no normalisation of relations in the event of a complete Russian collapse and regime change - thus protecting their long term strategic interests. Put simply, they have the most to benefit from doing it. Especially if they believe a regime change is possible or even near (which they might). If I were America and expected Russia to lose this war quickly, but wanted to prevent a normalisation of relations and a resumption of gas supplies once the new regime was in place, this is *exactly* what I would do. This is simply realpolitik, and every nation state engages in it.

    I don't get what the Russians get out of blowing up Nordstream that they can't get out of snipping a few phone lines in Shetland. The former effs up their income stream from gas for decades, the latter inconveniences a few shepherds while sending a message.

    I really don't understand how America could get "caught" here. Even if there were photos of a grinning Joe Biden planting plastic explosives, while wearing an old-timey diving suit, and giving the thumbs up, the Americans would deny all knowledge, as they always do, and we would still be in "conspiracy theory" territory.
    "It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?"

    To send the message that all out underwater infrastructure is vulnerable. If it was just gas pipelines we *might* be able to protect them; having to protect the vast network of cables as well is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the numbers involved. See https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    And attacking underwater cables might be much more immediately disruptive than even the gas pipelines. One of the most important acts we did in WW1 was cutting the German international cables - and we did that in the first few weeks.

    How could Americans get caught? People talking. Other countries (perhaps those who might want to use pipelines) detecting submarines or ships that did it. Other intelligence means.
    Exactly my point.

    So the Russians are most likely to blame for Shetland - it sends a powerful message, at little cost to them. Whereas blowing up a gas pipeline sends a message "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" at an extraordinary cost to them. Which would be a message the Americans would dearly like to send, especially if they think Putin is about to lose, and they want to set the geopolitical agenda for another 30 years or more.

    So on the cui bono principle, the Russians are obviously responsible for Shetland, but they'd have to be barking mad, and cutting off their own noses to spite their face, to blow up Nordstream.
    Some little time later, the Russians offered to sell gas to Germany via Nordstream 2, if it was activated.

    Which might suggest a motive for damaging the original Nordstream.
    Only one country is desperate and ready to escalate beyond common sense, and only one has anything meaningful to gain from scaring the Europeans about gas supplies. The Americans didn’t even want to to export LNG until a couple of years ago, for national security reasons. Cheap American gas is more important than exports.

    Only one country has been persistently hovering around both gas pipelines and telecoms cables for years, acting menacing.

    It was a warning to Europe, with the added benefit of hoping to bring NS2 back on the table. A warning that didn’t work.
    Aww. Bless. You really believe that


    “US Secretary of State #Blinken on the destruction of #NordStream2 in the text:

    "This presents a tremendous strategic opportunity for years to come. It is a tremendous opportunity to end dependence on Russian energy once and for all."

    "tremendous" for whom?”

    https://twitter.com/descolonizadora/status/1583934266517250049?s=46&t=EQOdPn76BnAzNBEguy889g
    Yes I believe that. I see decidedly marginal gains and major potential losses to any American administration attempting something like this.
    There aren't players in Europe who would take unilateral action of this type - no EU/NATO countries would act out of step with the US. That leaves Russia, for what still seem to me to be extremely obscure reasons, or America/someone acting on their behalf.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,338
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia has just claimed that Ukraine plan to shoot down a rocket filled with radioactive material over the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

    So, going by Russian logic, that is exactly what Russia will now do. Then they can say Told you so, while scaring the shit out of everyone
    Given the U?S at least and probably others have intel into the heart of the Kremlin (eg detailed advance knowledge of the Ukraine invasion) how do you think Russia will get away with this? Sure, there will be a gazillion Twitter twats who will go "Ooh, look, Ukrainian bastards!" but the higher levels of diplomacy will know exactly what gas gone on.

    And Ukraine would lose its military and financial support overnight if they actually did it themselves. So it is beyond any credulity for it to work as the Russians suggest "it was Ukraine wot did it...."
    Russia doesn't care about the truth, here, it cares about perceptions

    If they set off a small dirty bomb and manage to at least temporarily blur the truth of who did it, then that is job done. Everyone will know it was probably Russia - probably - but won't be entirely sure. And everyone will be scared shitless and probably pushing Ukraine to back down

    See the Kerch bombing, the Nordstream bombing, and the Dugin bombing. Each has been successfully blamed on various actors, even though we have a good idea in all cases who did it (Ukraine, USA, Ukraine)
    You think US did nordstream? Interesting. I imagine any nuclear incident would lead to enormous pressure on China and India not to buy Russian oil. China is already alleged to be pretty furious with Putin and their economy is in trouble.
    I am fairly confident the USA did Nordstream, tho they might have used a proxy to get it done yet avoid the blame (Ukraine itself, or maybe the Poles or Finns)

    The strategic prize of keeping Germany on the western side, reliant on America, and also of cutting off Putin's options - one day selling more gas to Europe - was irresistible for Washington. And recall we have several vids of Biden and aides months ago saying the USA would do exactly this: cut Nordsream (one way or another)

    But we cannot be sure. The fog of war obscures the truth. And that fog is what Putin might rely on, if he "does something radioactive"
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I agree that the US is the most likely culprit for the Nordstream sabotage, on the "cui bono" principle. I don't understand what Russia got out of the sabotage, other than saying "look at what we did here, we can do it to something that matters, e.g. the north sea pipeline or a transatlantic communications cable.

    America however benefits enormously from ensuring that Russian gas is cut off and stays cut off. Prevents waverers in Europe if there is a very cold winter. Add to that the fact that Biden literally said the US would "put an end" to Nordstream 2 if Russia attacked Ukraine, back in January.
    1) The Russians send exactly the message you say.

    2) Europe has learnt the hard way the problems with relying on Russia for energy. There was virtually no chance of (say) Germany going back to using it - which is why they've refused once Russia offered a week or so ago.

    3) The implications if the Americans get caught doing it are massive, and not good for them.

    4) For Russia, it adds to the 'Russia stronk!' pathetic meme they like to sell to their population and silly people outside Russia.

    5) The spate of recent cable breaks are *not* to the US's advantage. They are to Russia's.
    It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?

    My view is that by blowing up Nordstream, the US (assuming they are the culprits) ensure that there can be no normalisation of relations in the event of a complete Russian collapse and regime change - thus protecting their long term strategic interests. Put simply, they have the most to benefit from doing it. Especially if they believe a regime change is possible or even near (which they might). If I were America and expected Russia to lose this war quickly, but wanted to prevent a normalisation of relations and a resumption of gas supplies once the new regime was in place, this is *exactly* what I would do. This is simply realpolitik, and every nation state engages in it.

    I don't get what the Russians get out of blowing up Nordstream that they can't get out of snipping a few phone lines in Shetland. The former effs up their income stream from gas for decades, the latter inconveniences a few shepherds while sending a message.

    I really don't understand how America could get "caught" here. Even if there were photos of a grinning Joe Biden planting plastic explosives, while wearing an old-timey diving suit, and giving the thumbs up, the Americans would deny all knowledge, as they always do, and we would still be in "conspiracy theory" territory.
    "It makes far more sense to blame the Russians for the Shetland cable sabotage. Why would they start with something huge (Nordstream) then follow it up with something small like telephones in Shetland?"

    To send the message that all out underwater infrastructure is vulnerable. If it was just gas pipelines we *might* be able to protect them; having to protect the vast network of cables as well is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the numbers involved. See https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    And attacking underwater cables might be much more immediately disruptive than even the gas pipelines. One of the most important acts we did in WW1 was cutting the German international cables - and we did that in the first few weeks.

    How could Americans get caught? People talking. Other countries (perhaps those who might want to use pipelines) detecting submarines or ships that did it. Other intelligence means.
    Exactly my point.

    So the Russians are most likely to blame for Shetland - it sends a powerful message, at little cost to them. Whereas blowing up a gas pipeline sends a message "you can't rely on Russia for your gas" at an extraordinary cost to them. Which would be a message the Americans would dearly like to send, especially if they think Putin is about to lose, and they want to set the geopolitical agenda for another 30 years or more.

    So on the cui bono principle, the Russians are obviously responsible for Shetland, but they'd have to be barking mad, and cutting off their own noses to spite their face, to blow up Nordstream.
    Some little time later, the Russians offered to sell gas to Germany via Nordstream 2, if it was activated.

    Which might suggest a motive for damaging the original Nordstream.
    Only one country is desperate and ready to escalate beyond common sense, and only one has anything meaningful to gain from scaring the Europeans about gas supplies. The Americans didn’t even want to to export LNG until a couple of years ago, for national security reasons. Cheap American gas is more important than exports.

    Only one country has been persistently hovering around both gas pipelines and telecoms cables for years, acting menacing.

    It was a warning to Europe, with the added benefit of hoping to bring NS2 back on the table. A warning that didn’t work.
    Aww. Bless. You really believe that


    “US Secretary of State #Blinken on the destruction of #NordStream2 in the text:

    "This presents a tremendous strategic opportunity for years to come. It is a tremendous opportunity to end dependence on Russian energy once and for all."

    "tremendous" for whom?”

    https://twitter.com/descolonizadora/status/1583934266517250049?s=46&t=EQOdPn76BnAzNBEguy889g
    Yes I believe that. I see decidedly marginal gains and major potential losses to any American administration attempting something like this.
    So you’re confronted with a “criminal” who says “I’m going to do this thing” and then *this thing* happens and the criminal is one of the few who could have done this thing, and the criminal also has the most to gain from this thing happening… and then the criminal actually says “it’s brilliant that this thing happened”… and you blame the guy seven doors down
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    Thanks to the insights of my fellow PBers I am now comfortable in the knowledge that as soon as I left the restaurant yes, yes, no at the next table started to discuss how much they wanted to shag the loner in the cardigan.

    You're not George from Drop the Dead Donkey, are you?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    I don't know how people do the "for one" thing.

    I always feel extremely self-conscious, and a bit of a loser, if I'm on my own in a restaurant, pub or cinema and have to make jokes about the wife or kids before awkwardly going back to my newspaper, book or browsing my phone.

    What's the secret to being comfortable with this?

    Don't worry about it, I think. If you are in the cinema alone because you really want to see the film, that's why you are there; and if you are not bothered you do something else. Same with the pub and restaurant - do something you are comfortable with. If it's getting a takeaway meal and eating it in your room - do that instead.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    TimS said:

    It’s over 20C here in the Maconnais at 8.30 and I’m out on the terrace in the dark in short sleeves listening to crickets chirping. It’s nearly November. 25C forecast tomorrow.

    #climatechange.

    Incidentally I worked out the nearest nukeable location is St Yan air force base, 43km to our SW. reckon it would be a smallish warhead for that one rather than a megaton city-destroyer. Lyon 100km to the Soith gets one of them. Possibly Le Creusot or Montceau les Mines 50km to the NW get a small one. Dijon? Far enough away not to worry.

    So I’d see the flash, possibly get a bit of fallout on a Westerly but not too much. Would be like the scene in Empire of the Sun when the boy sees the Nagasaki bomb and thinks it’s his mother going up to heaven.

    Russia doesnt have enough 'megaton' nukes to nuke Lyon with one. They may have a handful of Avangard with a yiekd of 2 to 5mt, but no more than a dozen or so. The Satan 2 Sarmats are not yet operational and the alleged 100mt nuclear torpedo is complete fantasy horseshit. No such weapon exists, they might have a 2mt torpedo but that won't be anywhere near enough to create a tidal wave.
    Most if its arsenal is aging Sarmats with multiple 400 or 800 kt warheads that may or may not work, a few hundred sub launched that may or may not work or be in dock and a hundred air dropped on heavy long range bombers plus their battlefield collection.
    This ain't '62 but any exchange would be pretty grotesque even with all their dusty old crap. Some of it would get through
    The fun bit about the 100 megaton torpedo is that it was a fantasy from the 1960s - previously proposed and developed in secret without the cooperation of the Soviet Navy. Who binned the project the moment they found out, on the grounds that it was a useless waste of time.
    Cracking bedtime horror story for the incontinent though
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    I see the French are no less stroppy on the other side of the pond:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63393955

    They just want to take back control from their unelected rulers.
    So you're allying yourself with the French?

    We need to put you in the Tower.
    Yesterday you wanted to do a deal with the French rather than invade them.

    That's Tower worthy behaviour
    Invade them first. Then do a deal.

    That’s the process. Treaty of Troyes etc.

    Why do you think I'm so keen for Rishi to stick to the commitment to get defence spending back up to 3% of GDP?
  • NEW THREAD.

    ON AV AND ELECTORAL REFORM

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015

    Thanks to the insights of my fellow PBers I am now comfortable in the knowledge that as soon as I left the restaurant yes, yes, no at the next table started to discuss how much they wanted to shag the loner in the cardigan.

    You're not George from Drop the Dead Donkey, are you?
    I aspire to be him.

    I once had a boss who we nicknamed Gus after his resemblance to Gus Hedges, and a woman in IT we called Joy as she was just as cheerful as the character of that name.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited October 2022

    NEW THREAD.

    ON AV AND ELECTORAL REFORM

    Be still my beating heart.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593

    NEW THREAD.

    ON AV AND ELECTORAL REFORM

    Oh. If we say we are really sorry...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    MaxPB said:

    This was the cost of getting rid of Boris once and for all. I think we all need to recognise that Suella Braverman was the kingmaker in this race and was able to name her price, Rishi did the right thing by getting her on side.

    Once again, I'd like for anyone to name a better alternative, as I see it we would have had Boris as PM on Monday and Braverman as HS on Tuesday has Rishi declined her offer.

    Rishi, IMO, did what grown up politicians do and compromised to get over the line. Purity is invariably for losers and anyone who's saying that he should have rejected her is kidding themselves about the road not taken.

    You’re assuming the necessity of the deal with Braverman is a proven fact. It isn’t.

    Whereas the utter unsuitability of Braverman for reappointment is not a matter of dispute.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803

    Cookie said:


    Anyway. A magical evening this evening. The Enchanted Forest on Pitlochry. I had never heard of it until.it was recommended a couple of months backby one of our friendly Scottish contingent - but it appears to be a big deal in these parts. "Oh, you're going to the enchanted forest" they'll say, with a smile, as if you've just discovered a big and wonderful secret. "You'll have a great time." And we did. The family - the wife especially - are connosseurs of a light show, but this was something else. Ethereal, trippy, mystical, spectacular. We walked round with big happy, soppy smiles on our faces.
    As a happy postscript, heading back down the A9 to Dunkeld the sky suddenly cleared. There was a "wow" from the daughter on the right as she saw the dazzling array of stars - and then when we got back to our accommodation the same noise from everyone as we piled out of the car. Utterly astonishing. The girls had never seen anything like it. You could see the Milky Way. You could see shooting stars. Even for adults who had seen one or two starry skies in the past it was astonishing.

    I'm delighted that you enjoyed it.
    Was it you who recommended it to me? Thanks if it was!
This discussion has been closed.