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Truss manages to infuriate Nadine – politicalbetting.com

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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Young Tory chair Daniel Grainger has quit his role temporarily after calling Birmingham 'a dump'

    I'm told he's stepped down pending an investigation..

    @Young_Tories have distanced themselves from his remarks

    https://twitter.com/alethaadu/status/1576937343348793344

    This is why I never went into politics, you get into trouble for speaking the truth.
    I suspect he's in trouble mainly because he suggested Birmingham's "dumpness" could be attributed to it having one of the highest Muslim population's in Britain, if you follow the thread.
    Ouch. Well someone ought to tell the racist silly twat that Birmingham was even more of a dump before any Muslims settled there.
    That is also true.

    In fact, Birmingham is ugly as any city in the world and it's as badly planned as a Special Military Operation, but it does have it's good points as well. Some decent civic centres, great shops, and a bustle and energy that's quite uplifting in its own way. It feels very much better now than even thirty years ago.
    The post war planners looked at Birmingham and thought how can we resolve to remove buildings of intrinsic historic architechtural beauty and replace them with, for decades a makeshift car park, before building something ugly, dreary and modern? Look no further than Snow Hill Station.
    Birmingham has an excellent cricket ground at Edgebasten, where England usually win, and excellent curry shops in Broad street. Do English cities really need anything else?
    Curry 'shops' in Broad Street?
    Restaurants then. But Birmingham never struck me as posh.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    A sincerely meant well done to the government on its 45p u turn.

    The whole affair may have been handled as elegantly as an arthritic elephant on rollerskates hitting a patch of tar and ball bearings, but I genuinely appreciate they didnt drag that one out and pretend all through conference.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Hey Brexit fuckers.

    You have so cocked things up. Queues for non-Business class Eurostar stretching for literally hundreds of yards at St. Pancras and having to buy a "data passport" to use my mobile data allowance in France.

    Utter, utter fuckers.

    Tut tut, using 'yards' - you'll have your remoaner passport taken away, let alone your data passport.
    Yes good point. Prior to our exit from the EU I was disallowed from using "yards". Now that we are free I can use yards, pints, furlongs and all the rest.

    Phewee.
    There you go look, the data passport even allows overblown sarcasm.
    It was worth every penny of the £5.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Hey Brexit fuckers.

    You have so cocked things up. Queues for non-Business class Eurostar stretching for literally hundreds of yards at St. Pancras and having to buy a "data passport" to use my mobile data allowance in France.

    Utter, utter fuckers.

    Tut tut, using 'yards' - you'll have your remoaner passport taken away, let alone your data passport.
    Yes good point. Prior to our exit from the EU I was disallowed from using "yards". Now that we are free I can use yards, pints, furlongs and all the rest.

    Phewee.
    Don't forget those all important poles and chains. The benefits of Brexit: The right to use irrational imperial measures, even though you could anyway.
  • Central Birmingham is getting a lot better now the 60s and 70s architectural abortions are being cleared, and the nicer old buildings are being cleaned up and rehabilitated.

    Outer Birmingham (Selly Oak, Alum Rock, Erdington) is sadly still filthy and dreadful.

    It's a real shame because Birmingham pre 1960s was brimming with civic pride, but it's been thoroughly stamped out through half a century of mismanagement.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    What a rubbish speech
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,329
    We are going to find out quite soon: if Putin is prepared to go nuclear
  • Kwarteng making a big thing about the energy package handouts.

    Basically what cost Sunak, who was in favour of the handouts, the election vs Truss who was against them.

    They are a very weird party.

    I think the assumption was definitely that Truss would cap energy in some way, though she refused to be drawn on how.

    https://www.ft.com/content/0d4e8e8c-a9f5-409b-86b8-884304ce0568

    “Of course I will look at what more can be done,” she said. “But the way I would do things is in a Conservative way of lowering the tax burden, not giving out handouts.”

    Then £200bn handouts and she wants credit for it.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    This speech felt like a tooth extraction for Kwarteng . He wanted it over as quickly as possible .
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Hey Brexit fuckers.

    You have so cocked things up. Queues for non-Business class Eurostar stretching for literally hundreds of yards at St. Pancras and having to buy a "data passport" to use my mobile data allowance in France.

    Utter, utter fuckers.

    Tut tut, using 'yards' - you'll have your remoaner passport taken away, let alone your data passport.
    Yes good point. Prior to our exit from the EU I was disallowed from using "yards". Now that we are free I can use yards, pints, furlongs and all the rest.

    Phewee.
    It's absolutely blinking great. Pounds, ounces, yards and inches ... and lashings of ginger beer.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    a little turbulance reminds me of the green shoots of recovery - Callaghan never actually said 'crisis what crisis'

    First rule of political quotations is, nobody actually said what people say they said. Bus after 30 not Thatcher, unacceptable facet not face, etc etc
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Birmingham City Centre




    Honestly, the best thing they could do is level the entire thing and start again. And get King Charles to pick the architects

    This may be one upside of the impending nuclear war. Radical improvements to British urbanism

    I don't have a problem with anything in that picture other than the Selfridges carbunkle. Most German Cities successfully mix the old with the post war austere.
    It does look like a bombed German toilet. Like Düsseldorf or Cologne (minus the cathedral)

    The modern towers are so pathetically STUMPY

    At least crap American and Asian cities have properly tall skyscrapers. British towers are so apologetic and weedy. Outside London
    We were very proud of the Rotunda in the 1970s, but that Selfridges building looks like someone has dropped a massive moist silver coloured t*** from an aircraft and it landed in Moor Street, and that is where it has remained, untouched, ever since.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Scott_xP said:

    In just a few minutes, a man is going to stride out in front of these three massive screens that say ‘Getting Britain Moving’ and explain why he was absolutely right to have made it impossible to move house. It feels unbelievable. But that really is going to happen. https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1576946485580922881/photo/1

    Why do you always simply post the opinion of others? (I do think your editorship is pretty good)
    I worry that he just sits on twitter all day, waiting for tweets to post on pb. What a waste of a life. He should be just reading pb. A far better waste of time. :D
    I'm sure he can answer for himself.
    He rarely does though. He posts and runs. I think he posts some interesting stuff up here, but I'd love to engage more about them too. Its all a bit relentless.
    I'm not on twitter so find Scott's post useful, I hope he keeps it up. His posts are certainly more illuminating than reading Barty Thompsons 200 posts a day all saying pretty much the same thing.

    He's perfectly entitled to post tweets he find interesting and I can't see how he is under any obligation to enter into discussions about them - if others want to do that they are free to do so.

    I suspect your real gripe is that you don't like the things he brings to our attention
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Deutsche liabilities 1.2T

    Wow, that loan to Trump was larger than I thought.
    A loan to Trump is (technically) an asset, not a liability.

    Banks' liabilities are the money they owe their depositors.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Young Tory chair Daniel Grainger has quit his role temporarily after calling Birmingham 'a dump'

    I'm told he's stepped down pending an investigation..

    @Young_Tories have distanced themselves from his remarks

    https://twitter.com/alethaadu/status/1576937343348793344

    This is why I never went into politics, you get into trouble for speaking the truth.
    I suspect he's in trouble mainly because he suggested Birmingham's "dumpness" could be attributed to it having one of the highest Muslim population's in Britain, if you follow the thread.
    Ouch. Well someone ought to tell the racist silly twat that Birmingham was even more of a dump before any Muslims settled there.
    That is also true.

    In fact, Birmingham is ugly as any city in the world and it's as badly planned as a Special Military Operation, but it does have it's good points as well. Some decent civic centres, great shops, and a bustle and energy that's quite uplifting in its own way. It feels very much better now than even thirty years ago.
    The post war planners looked at Birmingham and thought how can we resolve to remove buildings of intrinsic historic architechtural beauty and replace them with, for decades a makeshift car park, before building something ugly, dreary and modern? Look no further than Snow Hill Station.
    Birmingham has an excellent cricket ground at Edgebasten, where England usually win, and excellent curry shops in Broad street. Do English cities really need anything else?
    Curry 'shops' in Broad Street?
    Restaurants then. But Birmingham never struck me as posh.
    Broad Street isn't where you go for curry restaurants, posh or otherwise
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Remember the huge efforts Russia went through to win Lysychansk and Severodonetsk?

    BREAKING:

    After taking Borova, the Ukrainian Army is now heading full-speed head for Svatove.

    Looks like Lysychansk and Severodonetsk will get outflanked from the north.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1576951372657750017
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    Kwarteng making a big thing about the energy package handouts.

    Basically what cost Sunak, who was in favour of the handouts, the election vs Truss who was against them.

    They are a very weird party.

    I think the assumption was definitely that Truss would cap energy in some way, though she refused to be drawn on how.
    And then she went for something far more extravagent and unaffordable than Sunak was proposing. But the utter incoherence of signing what amounts to a blank cheque (since we have no real idea what the energy policy is going to cost since we don't know what the market price will be) and combining that with a range of tax cuts is so economically illiterate that all credibility has gone. The fact that he sought to blame the turmoil in the markets that inevitably ensued on a strong dollar and a weak BoE is merely the icing on the cake.

    For a really clever guy he can be incredibly stupid.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Well that was a f**king bad speech
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    Birmingham City Centre




    Honestly, the best thing they could do is level the entire thing and start again. And get King Charles to pick the architects

    This may be one upside of the impending nuclear war. Radical improvements to British urbanism

    I don't have a problem with anything in that picture other than the Selfridges carbunkle. Most German Cities successfully mix the old with the post war austere.
    What's the gray plasticine thing?
  • nico679 said:

    Delusional from Kwarteng . Does he really think this reversal of the corporation tax increase will see the alleged 19 billion pounds plowed back into the economy . It will just go to bigger shareholder dividends.

    Now he has the cheek to slag off Labour on economic competence after the last weeks drama caused by his own government !

    I am not one for defending Kami-Kwasi but lower rates of Corp tax generally create better inward investment. You are right in the sense that those already here might do as you say, but it might also keep some of those that are thinking of relocating HQs to Eurozone and it might encourage some more inward investment. Lots of "mights"
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    a little turbulance reminds me of the green shoots of recovery - Callaghan never actually said 'crisis what crisis'

    I used to carshare with a prof at the Uni who was convinced he had seen Callaghan get of the plane and say 'Crisis? What crisis?' to the waiting media. Total false memory syndrome.

    The damage was done of course.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Leon said:

    We are going to find out quite soon: if Putin is prepared to go nuclear

    He will be dead soon
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Birmingham City Centre




    Honestly, the best thing they could do is level the entire thing and start again. And get King Charles to pick the architects

    This may be one upside of the impending nuclear war. Radical improvements to British urbanism

    I don't have a problem with anything in that picture other than the Selfridges carbunkle. Most German Cities successfully mix the old with the post war austere.
    What's the gray plasticine thing?
    That's what it is. It's the Bullring shopping centre. I think it's OK personally, though I am in a minority of one.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    Leon said:

    “Major advances happening simultaneously for Ukraine on two fronts 100s of kms apart. Russian military Telegram channels are increasingly in total panic. Starting to feel like the wheels are coming off for the Russian military.”

    “Others have noted this, but it bears repeating: these offensives don't enjoy the surprise that the Kharkiv one last month did. Here, the Russians know what is coming, and the Ukrainian army is solidly defeating them day after day. Hard to see how the bleeding stops.”

    https://twitter.com/neilphauer/status/1576946172609953794?s=46&t=1pS0_ubk1S__VRnngjQo6A

    "Hard to see how the bleeding stops.”

    Ukrainian exhaustion. They'll run out of energy from all the laughing and meme creation chasing and fighting.

    I don't think the Ukrainian internal supply lines are too stretched atm: they control too much of the surrounding area, and seem to have civilian goodwill in the area. Russia's supply lines are. But people and machines cannot fight forever, and there will come a time when the pushes need to pause for a while. I expect the 'plan' is to capture a large area - hopefully including Kherson or Severodonetsk/Lysychansk, then have an operational pause to rest, replenish and see where the Russians are weakest next.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Young Tory chair Daniel Grainger has quit his role temporarily after calling Birmingham 'a dump'

    I'm told he's stepped down pending an investigation..

    @Young_Tories have distanced themselves from his remarks

    https://twitter.com/alethaadu/status/1576937343348793344

    This is why I never went into politics, you get into trouble for speaking the truth.
    I suspect he's in trouble mainly because he suggested Birmingham's "dumpness" could be attributed to it having one of the highest Muslim population's in Britain, if you follow the thread.
    Ouch. Well someone ought to tell the racist silly twat that Birmingham was even more of a dump before any Muslims settled there.
    That is also true.

    In fact, Birmingham is ugly as any city in the world and it's as badly planned as a Special Military Operation, but it does have it's good points as well. Some decent civic centres, great shops, and a bustle and energy that's quite uplifting in its own way. It feels very much better now than even thirty years ago.
    The post war planners looked at Birmingham and thought how can we resolve to remove buildings of intrinsic historic architechtural beauty and replace them with, for decades a makeshift car park, before building something ugly, dreary and modern? Look no further than Snow Hill Station.
    Birmingham has an excellent cricket ground at Edgebasten, where England usually win, and excellent curry shops in Broad street. Do English cities really need anything else?
    Curry 'shops' in Broad Street?
    Restaurants then. But Birmingham never struck me as posh.
    Broad Street isn't where you go for curry restaurants, posh or otherwise
    Well its where I went when I was there for a test match and very good it was too. If there are even better restaurants somewhere else I would be delighted to learn of it.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    nico679 said:

    This speech felt like a tooth extraction for Kwarteng . He wanted it over as quickly as possible .

    I'd that why it didn't have much filling?
  • AlistairM said:

    Remember the huge efforts Russia went through to win Lysychansk and Severodonetsk?

    BREAKING:

    After taking Borova, the Ukrainian Army is now heading full-speed head for Svatove.

    Looks like Lysychansk and Severodonetsk will get outflanked from the north.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1576951372657750017

    Neither of which are yet liberated.
  • .

    Kwarteng making a big thing about the energy package handouts.

    Basically what cost Sunak, who was in favour of the handouts, the election vs Truss who was against them.

    They are a very weird party.

    Truss said all along she'd offer support for energy, but it would "just" be handouts.

    What cost Sunak was putting up National Insurance.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    AlistairM said:

    Remember the huge efforts Russia went through to win Lysychansk and Severodonetsk?

    BREAKING:

    After taking Borova, the Ukrainian Army is now heading full-speed head for Svatove.

    Looks like Lysychansk and Severodonetsk will get outflanked from the north.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1576951372657750017

    That's one thing to note: many (not all) of the gains the Ukrainians are making is over territory they have lost just three months ago or less. They still have a long way to go.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    DavidL said:

    Kwarteng making a big thing about the energy package handouts.

    Basically what cost Sunak, who was in favour of the handouts, the election vs Truss who was against them.

    They are a very weird party.

    I think the assumption was definitely that Truss would cap energy in some way, though she refused to be drawn on how.
    And then she went for something far more extravagent and unaffordable than Sunak was proposing. But the utter incoherence of signing what amounts to a blank cheque (since we have no real idea what the energy policy is going to cost since we don't know what the market price will be) and combining that with a range of tax cuts is so economically illiterate that all credibility has gone. The fact that he sought to blame the turmoil in the markets that inevitably ensued on a strong dollar and a weak BoE is merely the icing on the cake.

    For a really clever guy he can be incredibly stupid.
    The price of energy is a constant. If Sunak's proposal was cheaper for the taxpayer, it would have been more expensive for the consumer, and vice versa. Truss and her team have been clear that recession is more dangerous than inflation, and they have acted accordingly.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Leon said:

    Birmingham City Centre




    Honestly, the best thing they could do is level the entire thing and start again. And get King Charles to pick the architects

    This may be one upside of the impending nuclear war. Radical improvements to British urbanism

    I know I am not really giving Brum a chance, but I hate that city, usually because I stared at it for hours twice a week for 8 years whilst crawling through doing a Manchester - London - Manchester drive. Every time I detoured off the M6, M5 or M40, it was like driving into utter grimness, like Manchester in the mid 80s so it was better to stay on the motorway.

    They improved Manchester a lot since the 80s. If the Brum I saw was the improved version then it must have been really bleak! :open_mouth:
  • nico679 said:

    This speech felt like a tooth extraction for Kwarteng . He wanted it over as quickly as possible .

    I'd that why it didn't have much filling?
    It appears not, particularly if you drill down into it
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PeterM said:

    Leon said:

    Is Birmingham really as ugly as “any city in the world”?

    Brum is a shocker (like too many British cities) but I suggest there are worse in the ex-USSR, China, Korea, sub Saharan Africa

    eg Almost any town in Armenia is uglier than Birmingham

    That could be Birmingham’s new motto. “Better than many places in Armenia”

    strange place Birmingham. Supposed to be our 2nd city yet i always find the vibe in Manchester much better and to me Manchester always feels like our 2nd city.
    Manchester has a vibe like it thinks it is actually number one which often grates. Some parts of Brum are interesting/pleasant. Near the exhibition centre canal area and near the University are two that spring to mind. I prefer Liverpool, Glasgow and particularly Edinburgh to Manchester.
    All the best cities think they are actually number one. Without that self confidence you are nowhere.
    Many cities think they are rather more brilliant than might objectively be the case. I'd cite Newcastle and Nottingham in this respect. Manchester's certainty of its own brilliance is something else again though. (I say this as a suburban Mancunian with a great deal of affection for the place. But modest we are not in Manchester.)
    Manchester is cosmopolitan, energetic and packed full of culture but god does it know it.

    Newcastle is a great and friendly little place (again, not backwards about letting you know this) but for better or for worse it does retain a small town vibe to it.

    Birmingham I’ve always just found - fine. Not great, not terrible, just - there.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,329
    https://twitter.com/biz_ukraine_mag/status/1576866894560169985?s=46&t=UlTUln3tzz-beZDOObKhVw


    “Unedited footage from Putin’s recent war rally in Moscow appears to show complete indifference among the captive crowd of bussed-in state workers. It seems propagandists added cheers and chants in the editing room. Is anything in Russia not faked?”
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    nico679 said:

    We’re onto the de-regulation part of this and Kwarteng gets a big cheer when saying he’ll remove those horrible EU rules !

    I’m sure workers will be overjoyed when holiday entitlement , and the working time directive etc are gone .

    Surely the HASAWA (1974), EPA (1990) and the Road Traffic Act (1988) are the key incumberences to unfettered growth?

    Qatar wouldn't have the World Cup ready to go in just over a month if it had to worry about the Health and Safety at Work Act.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    .

    Kwarteng making a big thing about the energy package handouts.

    Basically what cost Sunak, who was in favour of the handouts, the election vs Truss who was against them.

    They are a very weird party.

    Truss said all along she'd offer support for energy, but it would "just" be handouts.

    What cost Sunak was putting up National Insurance.
    Yep - what cost Sunak was tax increases while Truss promised tax cuts paid for via borrowing.

    Now she is reduced to finding spending cuts to fund her Corporation Tax giveaway...

    While hoping that after 12 years of trying, a 13th year of low Corporation tax rates will finally result in Companies actually investing in productivity improvements... - Hint it ain't going to happen the money will just go to shareholders...
  • AlistairM said:

    Remember the huge efforts Russia went through to win Lysychansk and Severodonetsk?

    BREAKING:

    After taking Borova, the Ukrainian Army is now heading full-speed head for Svatove.

    Looks like Lysychansk and Severodonetsk will get outflanked from the north.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1576951372657750017

    That's one thing to note: many (not all) of the gains the Ukrainians are making is over territory they have lost just three months ago or less. They still have a long way to go.
    I don't think that's true, in the main.

    Borova was captured in March, for example.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    AlistairM said:

    Remember the huge efforts Russia went through to win Lysychansk and Severodonetsk?

    BREAKING:

    After taking Borova, the Ukrainian Army is now heading full-speed head for Svatove.

    Looks like Lysychansk and Severodonetsk will get outflanked from the north.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1576951372657750017

    That's one thing to note: many (not all) of the gains the Ukrainians are making is over territory they have lost just three months ago or less. They still have a long way to go.
    Sure, but the difference is that when Ukraine were driven back in these places they did so in an orderly fashion inflicting a very heavy price. The Russians, in contrast, are constantly being out manouvred and out flanked resulting in chaotic retreats and the loss of lots of equipment and personnel as well as territory. The Russian forces are not being driven back, they are being dismantled.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    edited October 2022
    OllyT said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Scott_xP said:

    In just a few minutes, a man is going to stride out in front of these three massive screens that say ‘Getting Britain Moving’ and explain why he was absolutely right to have made it impossible to move house. It feels unbelievable. But that really is going to happen. https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1576946485580922881/photo/1

    Why do you always simply post the opinion of others? (I do think your editorship is pretty good)
    I worry that he just sits on twitter all day, waiting for tweets to post on pb. What a waste of a life. He should be just reading pb. A far better waste of time. :D
    I'm sure he can answer for himself.
    He rarely does though. He posts and runs. I think he posts some interesting stuff up here, but I'd love to engage more about them too. Its all a bit relentless.
    I'm not on twitter so find Scott's post useful, I hope he keeps it up. His posts are certainly more illuminating than reading Barty Thompsons 200 posts a day all saying pretty much the same thing.

    He's perfectly entitled to post tweets he find interesting and I can't see how he is under any obligation to enter into discussions about them - if others want to do that they are free to do so.

    I suspect your real gripe is that you don't like the things he brings to our attention
    Who's "Barty Thompson"? Do you mean Bartholomew Roberts? He engages in discussions, as we saw just this morning, to give one example.

    Scotty, on the other hand, spews spam all over the comments as an attempt to detract from the discussion and always in an anti-partisan manner - he's driven by what he hates, not by anything that he actually believes in. Does he have the right to do it? Yes. Do others have the right to dislike him for it, and see him as a net negative? Also yes.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    You can’t shout “growth growth growth” when people look around their high streets, and households, and after 12 years of conservatives and conclude nothing has been done.

    They have a narrow 2 year window to
    somehow get monumental growth and for people to feel that on the ground. Instead they’ve tarnished their perception for economic competence and have nothing left
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,329
    “If France wants to lead Europe to a new era of military self-reliance, how come its contribution to the war effort in Ukraine is so small?

    “That is the awkward question being posed by some of the country's top strategic thinkers, who are pushing President Emmanuel Macron to make an urgent decision on more arms to Kyiv.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63090644

    Eastern Europeans will always rely on NATO, the USA, the UK

    Autonomous EU Defence is another victim of this wretched war
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    "Markets did not crash. There was no collapse in the pound" - @EdConwaySky redefines success for the chancellor's speech
    https://twitter.com/Rob_Merrick/status/1576961307831672837
  • Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PeterM said:

    Leon said:

    Is Birmingham really as ugly as “any city in the world”?

    Brum is a shocker (like too many British cities) but I suggest there are worse in the ex-USSR, China, Korea, sub Saharan Africa

    eg Almost any town in Armenia is uglier than Birmingham

    That could be Birmingham’s new motto. “Better than many places in Armenia”

    strange place Birmingham. Supposed to be our 2nd city yet i always find the vibe in Manchester much better and to me Manchester always feels like our 2nd city.
    Manchester has a vibe like it thinks it is actually number one which often grates. Some parts of Brum are interesting/pleasant. Near the exhibition centre canal area and near the University are two that spring to mind. I prefer Liverpool, Glasgow and particularly Edinburgh to Manchester.
    All the best cities think they are actually number one. Without that self confidence you are nowhere.
    Many cities think they are rather more brilliant than might objectively be the case. I'd cite Newcastle and Nottingham in this respect. Manchester's certainty of its own brilliance is something else again though. (I say this as a suburban Mancunian with a great deal of affection for the place. But modest we are not in Manchester.)
    Manchester is cosmopolitan, energetic and packed full of culture but god does it know it.

    Newcastle is a great and friendly little place (again, not backwards about letting you know this) but for better or for worse it does retain a small town vibe to it.

    Birmingham I’ve always just found - fine. Not great, not terrible, just - there.
    Another one to add to the shortlist for Birmingham's slogans.
    I always liked Viz's slogan for Skegness:


    Skegness. It's fucking shit
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    DavidL said:

    Kwarteng making a big thing about the energy package handouts.

    Basically what cost Sunak, who was in favour of the handouts, the election vs Truss who was against them.

    They are a very weird party.

    I think the assumption was definitely that Truss would cap energy in some way, though she refused to be drawn on how.
    And then she went for something far more extravagent and unaffordable than Sunak was proposing. But the utter incoherence of signing what amounts to a blank cheque (since we have no real idea what the energy policy is going to cost since we don't know what the market price will be) and combining that with a range of tax cuts is so economically illiterate that all credibility has gone. The fact that he sought to blame the turmoil in the markets that inevitably ensued on a strong dollar and a weak BoE is merely the icing on the cake.

    For a really clever guy he can be incredibly stupid.
    The price of energy is a constant. If Sunak's proposal was cheaper for the taxpayer, it would have been more expensive for the consumer, and vice versa. Truss and her team have been clear that recession is more dangerous than inflation, and they have acted accordingly.
    Not sure that that is absolutely true, the subsidy of gas will probably mean that we will consume more of it than we would otherwise have done.

    But the idea that rapid increases in interest rates (because of the increased borrowing) is compatible with more rapid economic growth is just a fantasy. The direct consequence of our increased borrowing is more likely to be an interest rate induced recession.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈25pt LABOUR LEAD

    🌹Lab 50 (+7)
    🌳Con 25 (-4)
    🔶LD 11 (-1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (-2)
    🌍Gre 3 (-1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (=)

    2,113 UK adults, 30 Sept - 2 Oct

    (chg from 23-25 Sept) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1576962260773539841/photo/1


    EDIT: You wanted some commentary. Truss is fucked

    The fightback begins!
  • Leon said:

    “Major advances happening simultaneously for Ukraine on two fronts 100s of kms apart. Russian military Telegram channels are increasingly in total panic. Starting to feel like the wheels are coming off for the Russian military.”

    “Others have noted this, but it bears repeating: these offensives don't enjoy the surprise that the Kharkiv one last month did. Here, the Russians know what is coming, and the Ukrainian army is solidly defeating them day after day. Hard to see how the bleeding stops.”

    https://twitter.com/neilphauer/status/1576946172609953794?s=46&t=1pS0_ubk1S__VRnngjQo6A

    "Hard to see how the bleeding stops.”

    Ukrainian exhaustion. They'll run out of energy from all the laughing and meme creation chasing and fighting.

    I don't think the Ukrainian internal supply lines are too stretched atm: they control too much of the surrounding area, and seem to have civilian goodwill in the area. Russia's supply lines are. But people and machines cannot fight forever, and there will come a time when the pushes need to pause for a while. I expect the 'plan' is to capture a large area - hopefully including Kherson or Severodonetsk/Lysychansk, then have an operational pause to rest, replenish and see where the Russians are weakest next.
    I suspect also the aim is to make these quick gains and then consolidate when the bad weather arrives and a Russian counter offensive becomes far more difficult. It is always as well not to underestimate an enemy and keeping them off balance until bad weather prevents, or at least limits, a response seems a sound strategy.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈25pt LABOUR LEAD

    🌹Lab 50 (+7)
    🌳Con 25 (-4)
    🔶LD 11 (-1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (-2)
    🌍Gre 3 (-1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (=)

    2,113 UK adults, 30 Sept - 2 Oct

    (chg from 23-25 Sept) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1576962260773539841/photo/1


    EDIT: You wanted some commentary. Truss is fucked

    Worth highlighting 2 things here

    1 - this isn't from the Mini Budget on the 23rd - its from this weekend and after Mortgages went sky high and pensions nearly blow up.

    It's also interesting to see what has happened to the SNP as that may make the Labour Majority even bigger with some Scottish seats returning to Labour...
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PeterM said:

    Leon said:

    Is Birmingham really as ugly as “any city in the world”?

    Brum is a shocker (like too many British cities) but I suggest there are worse in the ex-USSR, China, Korea, sub Saharan Africa

    eg Almost any town in Armenia is uglier than Birmingham

    That could be Birmingham’s new motto. “Better than many places in Armenia”

    strange place Birmingham. Supposed to be our 2nd city yet i always find the vibe in Manchester much better and to me Manchester always feels like our 2nd city.
    Manchester has a vibe like it thinks it is actually number one which often grates. Some parts of Brum are interesting/pleasant. Near the exhibition centre canal area and near the University are two that spring to mind. I prefer Liverpool, Glasgow and particularly Edinburgh to Manchester.
    All the best cities think they are actually number one. Without that self confidence you are nowhere.
    Many cities think they are rather more brilliant than might objectively be the case. I'd cite Newcastle and Nottingham in this respect. Manchester's certainty of its own brilliance is something else again though. (I say this as a suburban Mancunian with a great deal of affection for the place. But modest we are not in Manchester.)
    Manchester is cosmopolitan, energetic and packed full of culture but god does it know it.

    Newcastle is a great and friendly little place (again, not backwards about letting you know this) but for better or for worse it does retain a small town vibe to it.

    Birmingham I’ve always just found - fine. Not great, not terrible, just - there.
    Another one to add to the shortlist for Birmingham's slogans.
    I always liked Viz's slogan for Skegness:


    Skegness. It's fucking shit
    Gibraltar Point is well worth a visit.
  • You can’t shout “growth growth growth” when people look around their high streets, and households, and after 12 years of conservatives and conclude nothing has been done.

    They have a narrow 2 year window to
    somehow get monumental growth and for people to feel that on the ground. Instead they’ve tarnished their perception for economic competence and have nothing left

    That was the thinking behind putting everything on the number 13. Unfortunately, it was a big gamble at poorish odds.

    And it didn't work.

    Even if they do kindle some growth, it will be like "Britain is Booming" in 1997- they won't get the credit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    ydoethur said:

    PeterM said:

    Leon said:

    Is Birmingham really as ugly as “any city in the world”?

    Brum is a shocker (like too many British cities) but I suggest there are worse in the ex-USSR, China, Korea, sub Saharan Africa

    eg Almost any town in Armenia is uglier than Birmingham

    That could be Birmingham’s new motto. “Better than many places in Armenia”

    strange place Birmingham. Supposed to be our 2nd city yet i always find the vibe in manchester much better and to me Manchester always feels like our 2nd city.
    Problem is that Manchester is full of Mancs. Whereas Birmingham is full of the friendliest and funniest people in the world.
    Really? What are the Welsh doing there, pushing the Brummies out? :wink:
    They want their water back.
    Are you suggesting they're taking the piss?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Birmingham City Centre




    Honestly, the best thing they could do is level the entire thing and start again. And get King Charles to pick the architects

    This may be one upside of the impending nuclear war. Radical improvements to British urbanism

    I don't have a problem with anything in that picture other than the Selfridges carbunkle. Most German Cities successfully mix the old with the post war austere.
    What's the gray plasticine thing?
    The Selfridges Building, and those are not gray plasticine, they are shiny silver discs!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,329

    Leon said:

    “Major advances happening simultaneously for Ukraine on two fronts 100s of kms apart. Russian military Telegram channels are increasingly in total panic. Starting to feel like the wheels are coming off for the Russian military.”

    “Others have noted this, but it bears repeating: these offensives don't enjoy the surprise that the Kharkiv one last month did. Here, the Russians know what is coming, and the Ukrainian army is solidly defeating them day after day. Hard to see how the bleeding stops.”

    https://twitter.com/neilphauer/status/1576946172609953794?s=46&t=1pS0_ubk1S__VRnngjQo6A

    "Hard to see how the bleeding stops.”

    Ukrainian exhaustion. They'll run out of energy from all the laughing and meme creation chasing and fighting.

    I don't think the Ukrainian internal supply lines are too stretched atm: they control too much of the surrounding area, and seem to have civilian goodwill in the area. Russia's supply lines are. But people and machines cannot fight forever, and there will come a time when the pushes need to pause for a while. I expect the 'plan' is to capture a large area - hopefully including Kherson or Severodonetsk/Lysychansk, then have an operational pause to rest, replenish and see where the Russians are weakest next.
    I suspect also the aim is to make these quick gains and then consolidate when the bad weather arrives and a Russian counter offensive becomes far more difficult. It is always as well not to underestimate an enemy and keeping them off balance until bad weather prevents, or at least limits, a response seems a sound strategy.
    And look at the shite condition of Russian logistics. Conscripts sleeping rough in freezing fields


    https://twitter.com/mrkovalenko/status/1576748568404074498?s=46&t=UlTUln3tzz-beZDOObKhVw

  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    edited October 2022

    You can’t shout “growth growth growth” when people look around their high streets, and households, and after 12 years of conservatives and conclude nothing has been done.

    They have a narrow 2 year window to
    somehow get monumental growth and for people to feel that on the ground. Instead they’ve tarnished their perception for economic competence and have nothing left

    There is a reason why Sunak was proposing an income tax cut in April 2024 it ensured people would feel better off as the election came round.

    Liz and Co by bringing that base rate income tax cut to 19% forward to 6/4/2023 ensures that any feel good factor will be lost well before a late 2024 election is called....

    the more you look at the mini budget - the harder it is to see any political thought having been brought into it...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659

    Central Birmingham is getting a lot better now the 60s and 70s architectural abortions are being cleared, and the nicer old buildings are being cleaned up and rehabilitated.

    Outer Birmingham (Selly Oak, Alum Rock, Erdington) is sadly still filthy and dreadful.

    It's a real shame because Birmingham pre 1960s was brimming with civic pride, but it's been thoroughly stamped out through half a century of mismanagement.

    I think the key thing in most cities has been civic pride. My birthplace of Wigan is not a great place, but does have some rather lovely Victorian gothic civic buildings, as did many northern towns.

    One problem of our over centralised system is the degrading of that civic pride and autonomy. The replacement of city fathers rooted locally, by citizens of nowhere, whether civil servants, transient capitalists or national politicians has not been a good thing.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    eek said:

    You can’t shout “growth growth growth” when people look around their high streets, and households, and after 12 years of conservatives and conclude nothing has been done.

    They have a narrow 2 year window to
    somehow get monumental growth and for people to feel that on the ground. Instead they’ve tarnished their perception for economic competence and have nothing left

    There is a reason why Sunak was proposing an income tax cut in April 2024 it ensured people would feel better off as the election came round.

    Liz and Co by bringing that base rate income tax cut to 19% forward to 6/4/2023 ensures that any feel good factor will be lost well before a late 2024 election is called....
    What feel good factor? That 1% will be erased many times over by the cumulative effects of high inflation and crap wage settlements alone, never mind the utter ruination soon to be visited upon many households by unmanageable increases in mortgage repayments.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Westminster Voting Intention (2 Oct):

    Labour 52% (+6)
    Conservative 24% (-5)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-3)
    Green 5% (+1)
    SNP 5% (+2)
    Reform UK 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 28-29 Sept

    redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voti…

    Whoops
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    Leon said:

    Bristol is underrated

    A strange and fascinating city, with tons of history, and a genuine world class burb in Clifton

    Underrated by who?

    Everybody knows Bristol is an attractive, fascinating and prosperous city, with an excellent university attached.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Bristol is underrated

    A strange and fascinating city, with tons of history, and a genuine world class burb in Clifton

    Underrated by who?

    Everybody knows Bristol is an attractive, fascinating and prosperous city, with an excellent university attached.
    All the best people go to Bristol *cough*
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592

    AlistairM said:

    Remember the huge efforts Russia went through to win Lysychansk and Severodonetsk?

    BREAKING:

    After taking Borova, the Ukrainian Army is now heading full-speed head for Svatove.

    Looks like Lysychansk and Severodonetsk will get outflanked from the north.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1576951372657750017

    That's one thing to note: many (not all) of the gains the Ukrainians are making is over territory they have lost just three months ago or less. They still have a long way to go.
    I don't think that's true, in the main.

    c was captured in March, for example.
    Lysychansk and Severodonetsk in late June.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    a little turbulance reminds me of the green shoots of recovery - Callaghan never actually said 'crisis what crisis'

    I used to carshare with a prof at the Uni who was convinced he had seen Callaghan get of the plane and say 'Crisis? What crisis?' to the waiting media. Total false memory syndrome.

    The damage was done of course.
    Not total, it was a pretty fair headline length summary of

    Callaghan was then asked (by a reporter from the Evening Standard) "What is your general approach, in view of the mounting chaos in the country at the moment?" and replied:

    Well, that's a judgment that you are making. I promise you that if you look at it from outside, and perhaps you're taking rather a parochial view at the moment, I don't think that other people in the world would share the view that there is mounting chaos.

  • AlistairM said:

    Remember the huge efforts Russia went through to win Lysychansk and Severodonetsk?

    BREAKING:

    After taking Borova, the Ukrainian Army is now heading full-speed head for Svatove.

    Looks like Lysychansk and Severodonetsk will get outflanked from the north.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1576951372657750017

    That's one thing to note: many (not all) of the gains the Ukrainians are making is over territory they have lost just three months ago or less. They still have a long way to go.
    I don't think that's true, in the main.

    c was captured in March, for example.
    Lysychansk and Severodonetsk in late June.
    I understand your point, I'm just not sure that "many" of the gains are like that. I guess Lysychansk and Severodonetsk are more important though.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Labour TWENTY EIGHT points ahead with @RedfieldWilton

    🌹LAB: 52%
    🌳CON: 24%
    🔶LDM: 10% https://twitter.com/willgeorgelloyd/status/1576965643995271168/photo/1
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PeterM said:

    Leon said:

    Is Birmingham really as ugly as “any city in the world”?

    Brum is a shocker (like too many British cities) but I suggest there are worse in the ex-USSR, China, Korea, sub Saharan Africa

    eg Almost any town in Armenia is uglier than Birmingham

    That could be Birmingham’s new motto. “Better than many places in Armenia”

    strange place Birmingham. Supposed to be our 2nd city yet i always find the vibe in Manchester much better and to me Manchester always feels like our 2nd city.
    Manchester has a vibe like it thinks it is actually number one which often grates. Some parts of Brum are interesting/pleasant. Near the exhibition centre canal area and near the University are two that spring to mind. I prefer Liverpool, Glasgow and particularly Edinburgh to Manchester.
    All the best cities think they are actually number one. Without that self confidence you are nowhere.
    Many cities think they are rather more brilliant than might objectively be the case. I'd cite Newcastle and Nottingham in this respect. Manchester's certainty of its own brilliance is something else again though. (I say this as a suburban Mancunian with a great deal of affection for the place. But modest we are not in Manchester.)
    Manchester is cosmopolitan, energetic and packed full of culture but god does it know it.

    Newcastle is a great and friendly little place (again, not backwards about letting you know this) but for better or for worse it does retain a small town vibe to it.

    Birmingham I’ve always just found - fine. Not great, not terrible, just - there.
    Another one to add to the shortlist for Birmingham's slogans.
    I always liked Viz's slogan for Skegness:


    Skegness. It's fucking shit
    On the subject of half-hearted municipal slogans, this is perhaps the least ambitious I have come across:


  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Kwarteng making a big thing about the energy package handouts.

    Basically what cost Sunak, who was in favour of the handouts, the election vs Truss who was against them.

    They are a very weird party.

    I think the assumption was definitely that Truss would cap energy in some way, though she refused to be drawn on how.
    And then she went for something far more extravagent and unaffordable than Sunak was proposing. But the utter incoherence of signing what amounts to a blank cheque (since we have no real idea what the energy policy is going to cost since we don't know what the market price will be) and combining that with a range of tax cuts is so economically illiterate that all credibility has gone. The fact that he sought to blame the turmoil in the markets that inevitably ensued on a strong dollar and a weak BoE is merely the icing on the cake.

    For a really clever guy he can be incredibly stupid.
    The price of energy is a constant. If Sunak's proposal was cheaper for the taxpayer, it would have been more expensive for the consumer, and vice versa. Truss and her team have been clear that recession is more dangerous than inflation, and they have acted accordingly.
    Not sure that that is absolutely true, the subsidy of gas will probably mean that we will consume more of it than we would otherwise have done.

    But the idea that rapid increases in interest rates (because of the increased borrowing) is compatible with more rapid economic growth is just a fantasy. The direct consequence of our increased borrowing is more likely to be an interest rate induced recession.
    I doubt that. The BOE are forecasting 2% inflation next year; I don't really think that calls for radical interest rate hikes.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    eek said:

    You can’t shout “growth growth growth” when people look around their high streets, and households, and after 12 years of conservatives and conclude nothing has been done.

    They have a narrow 2 year window to
    somehow get monumental growth and for people to feel that on the ground. Instead they’ve tarnished their perception for economic competence and have nothing left

    There is a reason why Sunak was proposing an income tax cut in April 2024 it ensured people would feel better off as the election came round.

    Liz and Co by bringing that base rate income tax cut to 19% forward to 6/4/2023 ensures that any feel good factor will be lost well before a late 2024 election is called....

    the more you look at the mini budget - the harder it is to see any political thought having been brought into it...
    I was watching the announcement of the 45p cut again - Truss was so chuffed with it. That tells you everything
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Bristol is underrated

    A strange and fascinating city, with tons of history, and a genuine world class burb in Clifton

    Underrated by who?

    Everybody knows Bristol is an attractive, fascinating and prosperous city, with an excellent university attached.
    It is, yes. A truly world beating uni.

    And it's got a second university as well, right in the centre by the Cathedral.
  • My prediction is that Truss goes after disastrous locals next May.

    I’m curious about predictions that she would go sooner, though, especially if emanating from inside the Tory Party.

    One assumes that any plotters are smart enough to know that they need to get through Boris’s suspension by the Privileges Committee.

    Having said that, following the logic above, Truss - who previously might have (tacitly) supported Boris’s suspension - might now be against it.

    Then again, any influence she might have had over the Committee could now have been destroyed, too.

    If the anti-LizT plotters want to calm the markets, they'll send for Rishi, not Boris.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Starmer leads 43 29 best PM with Redield and Truss is minus 33 approval, lower than basement Bozo
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈25pt LABOUR LEAD

    🌹Lab 50 (+7)
    🌳Con 25 (-4)
    🔶LD 11 (-1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (-2)
    🌍Gre 3 (-1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (=)

    2,113 UK adults, 30 Sept - 2 Oct

    (chg from 23-25 Sept) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1576962260773539841/photo/1


    EDIT: You wanted some commentary. Truss is fucked

    Insert smutty joke from @TSE about self employed port area service workers here….
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Kwarteng making a big thing about the energy package handouts.

    Basically what cost Sunak, who was in favour of the handouts, the election vs Truss who was against them.

    They are a very weird party.

    I think the assumption was definitely that Truss would cap energy in some way, though she refused to be drawn on how.
    And then she went for something far more extravagent and unaffordable than Sunak was proposing. But the utter incoherence of signing what amounts to a blank cheque (since we have no real idea what the energy policy is going to cost since we don't know what the market price will be) and combining that with a range of tax cuts is so economically illiterate that all credibility has gone. The fact that he sought to blame the turmoil in the markets that inevitably ensued on a strong dollar and a weak BoE is merely the icing on the cake.

    For a really clever guy he can be incredibly stupid.
    The price of energy is a constant. If Sunak's proposal was cheaper for the taxpayer, it would have been more expensive for the consumer, and vice versa. Truss and her team have been clear that recession is more dangerous than inflation, and they have acted accordingly.
    Not sure that that is absolutely true, the subsidy of gas will probably mean that we will consume more of it than we would otherwise have done.

    But the idea that rapid increases in interest rates (because of the increased borrowing) is compatible with more rapid economic growth is just a fantasy. The direct consequence of our increased borrowing is more likely to be an interest rate induced recession.
    I doubt that. The BOE are forecasting 2% inflation next year; I don't really think that calls for radical interest rate hikes.
    No they aren't. Not that their recent inflation forecasts have been notable for their accuracy in any case.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    The Chancellor said, inter alia, "too many rules for small business owners looking to take on apprentices,"
    What does he mean? Does he mean the lads and lasses must be sent on courses?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    IshmaelZ said:

    a little turbulance reminds me of the green shoots of recovery - Callaghan never actually said 'crisis what crisis'

    I used to carshare with a prof at the Uni who was convinced he had seen Callaghan get of the plane and say 'Crisis? What crisis?' to the waiting media. Total false memory syndrome.

    The damage was done of course.
    Not total, it was a pretty fair headline length summary of

    Callaghan was then asked (by a reporter from the Evening Standard) "What is your general approach, in view of the mounting chaos in the country at the moment?" and replied:

    Well, that's a judgment that you are making. I promise you that if you look at it from outside, and perhaps you're taking rather a parochial view at the moment, I don't think that other people in the world would share the view that there is mounting chaos.

    My point was he remembered him saying 'crisis? What crisis?', which he didn't do. Not the interview as he came off the plane.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PeterM said:

    Leon said:

    Is Birmingham really as ugly as “any city in the world”?

    Brum is a shocker (like too many British cities) but I suggest there are worse in the ex-USSR, China, Korea, sub Saharan Africa

    eg Almost any town in Armenia is uglier than Birmingham

    That could be Birmingham’s new motto. “Better than many places in Armenia”

    strange place Birmingham. Supposed to be our 2nd city yet i always find the vibe in Manchester much better and to me Manchester always feels like our 2nd city.
    Manchester has a vibe like it thinks it is actually number one which often grates. Some parts of Brum are interesting/pleasant. Near the exhibition centre canal area and near the University are two that spring to mind. I prefer Liverpool, Glasgow and particularly Edinburgh to Manchester.
    All the best cities think they are actually number one. Without that self confidence you are nowhere.
    Many cities think they are rather more brilliant than might objectively be the case. I'd cite Newcastle and Nottingham in this respect. Manchester's certainty of its own brilliance is something else again though. (I say this as a suburban Mancunian with a great deal of affection for the place. But modest we are not in Manchester.)
    England's best major cities in order:

    London
    Manchester
    Liverpool
    Newcastle
    Bristol
    Nottingham
    Sheffield
    Leeds
    Birmingham


    That is not to say Brum is a bad city – it is far better than the rogue's gallery you posted earlier (Leics, Walsall etc).



  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486


    Westminster Voting Intention (2 Oct):

    Labour 52% (+6)
    Conservative 24% (-5)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-3)
    Green 5% (+1)
    SNP 5% (+2)
    Reform UK 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 28-29 Sept

    redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voti…

    Whoops

    Lead below 30 points.

    Conference bounce for Truss? :)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Bristol is underrated

    A strange and fascinating city, with tons of history, and a genuine world class burb in Clifton

    Underrated by who?

    Everybody knows Bristol is an attractive, fascinating and prosperous city, with an excellent university attached.
    It is, yes. A truly world beating uni.

    And it's got a second university as well, right in the centre by the Cathedral.
    I know Bath is close to Bristol, but we aren't really attached... Oh you meant Bristol Uni, the suicide capital of the west country?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PeterM said:

    Leon said:

    Is Birmingham really as ugly as “any city in the world”?

    Brum is a shocker (like too many British cities) but I suggest there are worse in the ex-USSR, China, Korea, sub Saharan Africa

    eg Almost any town in Armenia is uglier than Birmingham

    That could be Birmingham’s new motto. “Better than many places in Armenia”

    strange place Birmingham. Supposed to be our 2nd city yet i always find the vibe in Manchester much better and to me Manchester always feels like our 2nd city.
    Manchester has a vibe like it thinks it is actually number one which often grates. Some parts of Brum are interesting/pleasant. Near the exhibition centre canal area and near the University are two that spring to mind. I prefer Liverpool, Glasgow and particularly Edinburgh to Manchester.
    All the best cities think they are actually number one. Without that self confidence you are nowhere.
    Many cities think they are rather more brilliant than might objectively be the case. I'd cite Newcastle and Nottingham in this respect. Manchester's certainty of its own brilliance is something else again though. (I say this as a suburban Mancunian with a great deal of affection for the place. But modest we are not in Manchester.)
    England's best major cities in order:

    London
    Manchester
    Liverpool
    Newcastle
    Bristol
    Nottingham
    Sheffield
    Leeds
    Birmingham


    That is not to say Brum is a bad city – it is far better than the rogue's gallery you posted earlier (Leics, Walsall etc).



    Probably not a bad order - would place Leeds above Sheffield and probably even Bristol but a lot of this list will depend on when you last visited those cities....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,329
    An articulate and different position

    https://jacobin.com/2022/10/ukraine-russia-us-nuclear-war-putin/

    TLDR: “if Ukraine takes Crimea = nuclear war

    We need a ceasefire soon”
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour TWENTY EIGHT points ahead with @RedfieldWilton

    🌹LAB: 52%
    🌳CON: 24%
    🔶LDM: 10% https://twitter.com/willgeorgelloyd/status/1576965643995271168/photo/1

    This isn’t really recoverable under Truss, is it? She can’t come out and do a barnstorming speech like Cameron or Johnson, because she’s useless at it
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    The Chancellor said, inter alia, "too many rules for small business owners looking to take on apprentices,"
    What does he mean? Does he mean the lads and lasses must be sent on courses?

    Ideally you will be an apprentice and on apprenticeship wages (so below minimum wage) until the day you retire...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PeterM said:

    Leon said:

    Is Birmingham really as ugly as “any city in the world”?

    Brum is a shocker (like too many British cities) but I suggest there are worse in the ex-USSR, China, Korea, sub Saharan Africa

    eg Almost any town in Armenia is uglier than Birmingham

    That could be Birmingham’s new motto. “Better than many places in Armenia”

    strange place Birmingham. Supposed to be our 2nd city yet i always find the vibe in Manchester much better and to me Manchester always feels like our 2nd city.
    Manchester has a vibe like it thinks it is actually number one which often grates. Some parts of Brum are interesting/pleasant. Near the exhibition centre canal area and near the University are two that spring to mind. I prefer Liverpool, Glasgow and particularly Edinburgh to Manchester.
    All the best cities think they are actually number one. Without that self confidence you are nowhere.
    Many cities think they are rather more brilliant than might objectively be the case. I'd cite Newcastle and Nottingham in this respect. Manchester's certainty of its own brilliance is something else again though. (I say this as a suburban Mancunian with a great deal of affection for the place. But modest we are not in Manchester.)
    Manchester is cosmopolitan, energetic and packed full of culture but god does it know it.

    Newcastle is a great and friendly little place (again, not backwards about letting you know this) but for better or for worse it does retain a small town vibe to it.

    Birmingham I’ve always just found - fine. Not great, not terrible, just - there.
    Another one to add to the shortlist for Birmingham's slogans.
    I always liked Viz's slogan for Skegness:


    Skegness. It's fucking shit
    On the subject of half-hearted municipal slogans, this is perhaps the least ambitious I have come across:


    I liked a joke example of such a slogan being 'A capital city', being the adjective, and not, in any way, a Capital city.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PeterM said:

    Leon said:

    Is Birmingham really as ugly as “any city in the world”?

    Brum is a shocker (like too many British cities) but I suggest there are worse in the ex-USSR, China, Korea, sub Saharan Africa

    eg Almost any town in Armenia is uglier than Birmingham

    That could be Birmingham’s new motto. “Better than many places in Armenia”

    strange place Birmingham. Supposed to be our 2nd city yet i always find the vibe in Manchester much better and to me Manchester always feels like our 2nd city.
    Manchester has a vibe like it thinks it is actually number one which often grates. Some parts of Brum are interesting/pleasant. Near the exhibition centre canal area and near the University are two that spring to mind. I prefer Liverpool, Glasgow and particularly Edinburgh to Manchester.
    All the best cities think they are actually number one. Without that self confidence you are nowhere.
    Many cities think they are rather more brilliant than might objectively be the case. I'd cite Newcastle and Nottingham in this respect. Manchester's certainty of its own brilliance is something else again though. (I say this as a suburban Mancunian with a great deal of affection for the place. But modest we are not in Manchester.)
    Manchester is cosmopolitan, energetic and packed full of culture but god does it know it.

    Newcastle is a great and friendly little place (again, not backwards about letting you know this) but for better or for worse it does retain a small town vibe to it.

    Birmingham I’ve always just found - fine. Not great, not terrible, just - there.
    Another one to add to the shortlist for Birmingham's slogans.
    I always liked Viz's slogan for Skegness:


    Skegness. It's fucking shit
    On the subject of half-hearted municipal slogans, this is perhaps the least ambitious I have come across:


    Norwich is famously a 'fine' city. Which is what I got when my Dutch friend didn't get that car park tickets tended to need displaying rather getting carried around in your pocket...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Kwarteng making a big thing about the energy package handouts.

    Basically what cost Sunak, who was in favour of the handouts, the election vs Truss who was against them.

    They are a very weird party.

    I think the assumption was definitely that Truss would cap energy in some way, though she refused to be drawn on how.
    And then she went for something far more extravagent and unaffordable than Sunak was proposing. But the utter incoherence of signing what amounts to a blank cheque (since we have no real idea what the energy policy is going to cost since we don't know what the market price will be) and combining that with a range of tax cuts is so economically illiterate that all credibility has gone. The fact that he sought to blame the turmoil in the markets that inevitably ensued on a strong dollar and a weak BoE is merely the icing on the cake.

    For a really clever guy he can be incredibly stupid.
    The price of energy is a constant. If Sunak's proposal was cheaper for the taxpayer, it would have been more expensive for the consumer, and vice versa. Truss and her team have been clear that recession is more dangerous than inflation, and they have acted accordingly.
    Not sure that that is absolutely true, the subsidy of gas will probably mean that we will consume more of it than we would otherwise have done.

    But the idea that rapid increases in interest rates (because of the increased borrowing) is compatible with more rapid economic growth is just a fantasy. The direct consequence of our increased borrowing is more likely to be an interest rate induced recession.
    I doubt that. The BOE are forecasting 2% inflation next year; I don't really think that calls for radical interest rate hikes.
    Prices have risen by 9.9% compared to a year ago. That is well above our 2% target. We expect the rate of inflation to peak at 11% in October and then remain above 10% for a few months before starting to come down. 

    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/will-inflation-in-the-uk-keep-rising#:~:text=We expect inflation to start,target in around two years

    23 September

    You may be confusing target 2% meaning what we intend to achieve vs target meaning what we expect.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Leon said:

    An articulate and different position

    https://jacobin.com/2022/10/ukraine-russia-us-nuclear-war-putin/

    TLDR: “if Ukraine takes Crimea = nuclear war

    We need a ceasefire soon”

    I think if Ukraine could regain everything but Crimea, and avoid nuclear war in the bargain, they'd probably take it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PeterM said:

    Leon said:

    Is Birmingham really as ugly as “any city in the world”?

    Brum is a shocker (like too many British cities) but I suggest there are worse in the ex-USSR, China, Korea, sub Saharan Africa

    eg Almost any town in Armenia is uglier than Birmingham

    That could be Birmingham’s new motto. “Better than many places in Armenia”

    strange place Birmingham. Supposed to be our 2nd city yet i always find the vibe in Manchester much better and to me Manchester always feels like our 2nd city.
    Manchester has a vibe like it thinks it is actually number one which often grates. Some parts of Brum are interesting/pleasant. Near the exhibition centre canal area and near the University are two that spring to mind. I prefer Liverpool, Glasgow and particularly Edinburgh to Manchester.
    All the best cities think they are actually number one. Without that self confidence you are nowhere.
    Many cities think they are rather more brilliant than might objectively be the case. I'd cite Newcastle and Nottingham in this respect. Manchester's certainty of its own brilliance is something else again though. (I say this as a suburban Mancunian with a great deal of affection for the place. But modest we are not in Manchester.)
    Manchester is cosmopolitan, energetic and packed full of culture but god does it know it.

    Newcastle is a great and friendly little place (again, not backwards about letting you know this) but for better or for worse it does retain a small town vibe to it.

    Birmingham I’ve always just found - fine. Not great, not terrible, just - there.
    Another one to add to the shortlist for Birmingham's slogans.
    I always liked Viz's slogan for Skegness:


    Skegness. It's fucking shit
    Gibraltar Point is well worth a visit.
    It is lovely, like the North Norfok coast across the Wash. The town is pretty bracing though, even when the wind doesn't blow.
  • Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PeterM said:

    Leon said:

    Is Birmingham really as ugly as “any city in the world”?

    Brum is a shocker (like too many British cities) but I suggest there are worse in the ex-USSR, China, Korea, sub Saharan Africa

    eg Almost any town in Armenia is uglier than Birmingham

    That could be Birmingham’s new motto. “Better than many places in Armenia”

    strange place Birmingham. Supposed to be our 2nd city yet i always find the vibe in Manchester much better and to me Manchester always feels like our 2nd city.
    Manchester has a vibe like it thinks it is actually number one which often grates. Some parts of Brum are interesting/pleasant. Near the exhibition centre canal area and near the University are two that spring to mind. I prefer Liverpool, Glasgow and particularly Edinburgh to Manchester.
    All the best cities think they are actually number one. Without that self confidence you are nowhere.
    Many cities think they are rather more brilliant than might objectively be the case. I'd cite Newcastle and Nottingham in this respect. Manchester's certainty of its own brilliance is something else again though. (I say this as a suburban Mancunian with a great deal of affection for the place. But modest we are not in Manchester.)
    Manchester is cosmopolitan, energetic and packed full of culture but god does it know it.

    Newcastle is a great and friendly little place (again, not backwards about letting you know this) but for better or for worse it does retain a small town vibe to it.

    Birmingham I’ve always just found - fine. Not great, not terrible, just - there.
    Another one to add to the shortlist for Birmingham's slogans.
    I always liked Viz's slogan for Skegness:


    Skegness. It's fucking shit
    On the subject of half-hearted municipal slogans, this is perhaps the least ambitious I have come across:


    "Blackburn, Lancashire - Home of Four Thousand Holes (Made Famous by The Beatles)"
  • NEW THREAD
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    The Chancellor said, inter alia, "too many rules for small business owners looking to take on apprentices,"
    What does he mean? Does he mean the lads and lasses must be sent on courses?

    Go oldschool, you have to live with your master for years, with the wife/husband looking after the young apprentice and keeping them on the straight and narrow.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Government economic policy over the last 48 hours (I think the timescale is right, I'm finding it hard to keep up):

    1. We want to lower taxes for really wealthy people. This is a great thing because it will more than pay for itself through economic growth.
    2. We want to lower taxes for really wealthy people. This is a great thing because it will generate economic growth. However, it won't pay for itself so we shall be asking the rest of you proles to pay for it through cuts to social security and public services.
    3. We no longer want to lower taxes for really wealthy people. At least not for another few weeks. It was a terrible idea for which we apologise wholeheartedly, honest. But we shall still be asking the rest of you proles to put up with cuts to social security and public services, so that we can afford lower taxes for really wealthy people next year. Or something.

    Am I on the right page, or have they already moved on to stage 4?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Leon said:

    Birmingham City Centre




    Honestly, the best thing they could do is level the entire thing and start again. And get King Charles to pick the architects

    This may be one upside of the impending nuclear war. Radical improvements to British urbanism

    I know I am not really giving Brum a chance, but I hate that city, usually because I stared at it for hours twice a week for 8 years whilst crawling through doing a Manchester - London - Manchester drive. Every time I detoured off the M6, M5 or M40, it was like driving into utter grimness, like Manchester in the mid 80s so it was better to stay on the motorway.

    They improved Manchester a lot since the 80s. If the Brum I saw was the improved version then it must have been really bleak! :open_mouth:
    The best thing about Birmingham now, is the M6 Toll. ;)
  • PeterMPeterM Posts: 302
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PeterM said:

    Leon said:

    Is Birmingham really as ugly as “any city in the world”?

    Brum is a shocker (like too many British cities) but I suggest there are worse in the ex-USSR, China, Korea, sub Saharan Africa

    eg Almost any town in Armenia is uglier than Birmingham

    That could be Birmingham’s new motto. “Better than many places in Armenia”

    strange place Birmingham. Supposed to be our 2nd city yet i always find the vibe in Manchester much better and to me Manchester always feels like our 2nd city.
    Manchester has a vibe like it thinks it is actually number one which often grates. Some parts of Brum are interesting/pleasant. Near the exhibition centre canal area and near the University are two that spring to mind. I prefer Liverpool, Glasgow and particularly Edinburgh to Manchester.
    All the best cities think they are actually number one. Without that self confidence you are nowhere.
    Many cities think they are rather more brilliant than might objectively be the case. I'd cite Newcastle and Nottingham in this respect. Manchester's certainty of its own brilliance is something else again though. (I say this as a suburban Mancunian with a great deal of affection for the place. But modest we are not in Manchester.)
    England's best major cities in order:

    London
    Manchester
    Liverpool
    Newcastle
    Bristol
    Nottingham
    Sheffield
    Leeds
    Birmingham


    That is not to say Brum is a bad city – it is far better than the rogue's gallery you posted earlier (Leics, Walsall etc).



    Probably not a bad order - would place Leeds above Sheffield and probably even Bristol but a lot of this list will depend on when you last visited those cities....
    would put newcastle over liverpool and leeds over nottingham and sheffield...sheffield better than leeds....come on...
  • Leon said:

    An articulate and different position

    https://jacobin.com/2022/10/ukraine-russia-us-nuclear-war-putin/

    TLDR: “if Ukraine takes Crimea = nuclear war

    We need a ceasefire soon”

    No.

    Crimea is Ukraine. We can get a ceasefire when Russia is out of Ukraine.
  • PeterMPeterM Posts: 302
    Leon said:

    An articulate and different position

    https://jacobin.com/2022/10/ukraine-russia-us-nuclear-war-putin/

    TLDR: “if Ukraine takes Crimea = nuclear war

    We need a ceasefire soon”

    not only that but a ceasefire would save many ukrainian lives too

  • Westminster Voting Intention (2 Oct):

    Labour 52% (+6)
    Conservative 24% (-5)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-3)
    Green 5% (+1)
    SNP 5% (+2)
    Reform UK 3% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 28-29 Sept

    redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voti…

    Whoops

    Just saw in my FB feed:

    image
  • PeterMPeterM Posts: 302
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Bristol is underrated

    A strange and fascinating city, with tons of history, and a genuine world class burb in Clifton

    Underrated by who?

    Everybody knows Bristol is an attractive, fascinating and prosperous city, with an excellent university attached.
    to be fair much of east bristol can be pretty grim
  • This thread has been encircled.

  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PeterM said:

    Leon said:

    Is Birmingham really as ugly as “any city in the world”?

    Brum is a shocker (like too many British cities) but I suggest there are worse in the ex-USSR, China, Korea, sub Saharan Africa

    eg Almost any town in Armenia is uglier than Birmingham

    That could be Birmingham’s new motto. “Better than many places in Armenia”

    strange place Birmingham. Supposed to be our 2nd city yet i always find the vibe in Manchester much better and to me Manchester always feels like our 2nd city.
    Manchester has a vibe like it thinks it is actually number one which often grates. Some parts of Brum are interesting/pleasant. Near the exhibition centre canal area and near the University are two that spring to mind. I prefer Liverpool, Glasgow and particularly Edinburgh to Manchester.
    All the best cities think they are actually number one. Without that self confidence you are nowhere.
    Many cities think they are rather more brilliant than might objectively be the case. I'd cite Newcastle and Nottingham in this respect. Manchester's certainty of its own brilliance is something else again though. (I say this as a suburban Mancunian with a great deal of affection for the place. But modest we are not in Manchester.)
    Manchester is cosmopolitan, energetic and packed full of culture but god does it know it.

    Newcastle is a great and friendly little place (again, not backwards about letting you know this) but for better or for worse it does retain a small town vibe to it.

    Birmingham I’ve always just found - fine. Not great, not terrible, just - there.
    Another one to add to the shortlist for Birmingham's slogans.
    I always liked Viz's slogan for Skegness:


    Skegness. It's fucking shit
    Gibraltar Point is well worth a visit.
    It is lovely, like the North Norfok coast across the Wash. The town is pretty bracing though, even when the wind doesn't blow.
    The town was extremely busy last time I passed through, so at least some people like it. I can't say I do, but I don't like writing places off.

    A lot of places that people see as 'holes' have redeeming features. I mean, even London has some parks...
  • nico679 said:

    Delusional from Kwarteng . Does he really think this reversal of the corporation tax increase will see the alleged 19 billion pounds plowed back into the economy . It will just go to bigger shareholder dividends.

    Now he has the cheek to slag off Labour on economic competence after the last weeks drama caused by his own government !

    I am not one for defending Kami-Kwasi but lower rates of Corp tax generally create better inward investment. You are right in the sense that those already here might do as you say, but it might also keep some of those that are thinking of relocating HQs to Eurozone and it might encourage some more inward investment. Lots of "mights"
    We've had a decade of lower corporation tax rates without the anticipated investment. Rishi's brainwave was to jack up rates slightly and then give allowances to incentivise investment and research.
This discussion has been closed.