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Truss manages to infuriate Nadine – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited October 9 in General
Truss manages to infuriate Nadine – politicalbetting.com

I remember @NadineDorries and @Jacob_Rees_Mogg coming out into Downing Street after a cabinet meeting to publicly back Truss. Dorries was a loyalist and key backer. Now suggesting that Truss diverting from the Johnson administration to extent that she should call a GE https://t.co/NpCtLbEpdW

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • First
  • 2nd, like the rate of Dorries’ brain
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,204
    edited October 3
    Cummings looks like he was right, Truss is absolutely hopeless. Bad communicator, useless manager, not a team player, and an ideologue as well. The question that troubles me though, is how she could have a decade or so in government and not see what the job really entails. How did she keep getting promotions and top jobs and then be such an abysmal failure as PM?
  • eekeek Posts: 21,819
    Pulpstar said:

    This might be a controversial view but I don't think it should be down to the government to keep people "safe" online. Adults are free to make their own choices and parents have parental responsibility.

    I don't have quite the same view - mine is more the pragmatic one of it won't work so don't bother....
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    edited October 3
    FPT, re nukes and self inflicted fallout. If Putin dropped 100kt warhead on Kyiv, nowhere near lethal doses of radiation would get out of Ukraine.
    Edit and thats with a dirty ground burst
  • PaulSimonPaulSimon Posts: 34
    edited October 3
    The media (especially Sky News) are already gearing up to use the death of Molly Russell to force another u-turn and get Nadine's ridiculous Online Safety Bill through unamended (or, even worse, "strengthened").
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148
    edited October 3
    Nadine only backed Truss to stop Sunak. She would swap Truss for Boris again tomorrow
  • eekeek Posts: 21,819
    Yesterday HS2 was being killed with NPR equally dead.

    Today NPR is back on the agenda https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2022-10-03/pm-liz-truss-vows-to-include-bradford-in-northern-powerhouse-rail-plans

    What gives...
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,204
    PaulSimon said:

    The media (especially Sky News) are already gearing up to use the death of Molly Russell to force another u-turn and get Nadine's ridiculous Online Safety Bill through unamended (or, even worse, "strengthened").

    Truss can't win on this. Whatever she does she will annoy one lot of MPs. It probably won't pass.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    Lisa O'Carroll
    @lisaocarroll
    Esther McVey calls on Liz Truss to increase and not cut benefits.
    “What we have to do is bring people back to work and that will not be done by slashing the benefits budget”

    https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1576893431150153728
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,918
    edited October 3
    Can I just say that I thought that was a cracking debate on universal income on the last thread.

    Thanks everyone.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808
    edited October 3
    Tenth rate, like Loopy Liz
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808
    Notice that Dorries isn’t complaining about the bad things Liz is doing, but about the bad things she isn’t doing,
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,527
    This is quite an amusing rant from one of the Russian chat shows.

    Tonight on Russian state TV: the mood is grim, look at their faces. Dmitry Sablin, Deputy Chairman of the Defense Committee, admits that Russia desperately needs "to stop and regroup" and is experiencing all sorts of shortages, compared to Ukraine that has it all —and then some.
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1576796427409559558

    TL;DR
    - restructure industry (how?!)
    - restructure journalism (i.e. censorship if it wasn't already)
    - Ukrainians are losing 7 to 10x the number of troops Russia is
    - Overwhelming majority of Ukrainians are for Russia (how did that work out at the start of the war?)
    - Russia is freeing Ukrainians of constant fear and stress
    - At the end an argument as to whether Belarus is part of Russia or an independent state
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808
    HYUFD said:

    Nadine only backed Truss to stop Sunak. She would swap Truss for Boris again tomorrow

    And in other news, the pope shits in the woods….
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,918
    HYUFD said:

    Nadine only backed Truss to stop Sunak. She would swap Truss for Boris again tomorrow

    She would and that makes two of you. Not sure how many others would though.

    I know you can show me polls (probably all of them actually) that show Boris doing better than Truss and I agree he would, but that doesn't mean those people who prefer Boris to Truss wouldn't prefer someone else to Boris.

    And the key thing of course is Boris is not fit to be PM anyway even if he was as popular as sliced bread.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    So, is the choice for Putin essentially this: lose or go nuclear?

    Yes
    Not really - the choice is to lose or to lose.

    If he goes nuclear - the only difference will be he delays things a few days / weeks and still loses.....

    No, Nuclear is by definition imponderable. Never been done. Probably means catastrophe for the world, certainly means intense chaos and pain, which is why it might appeal to a dictator facing the end

    I’ve been thinking about Putin’s nuclear option this weekend. My reckoning is the Russian military would likely revolt if Putin ordered a nuclear strike. So it wouldn’t happen. I just wish I could be certain
    David Petraeus has been interesting on this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/02/us-russia-putin-ukraine-war-david-petraeus
    If the US sunk Putin's fleet and destroyed Russian ground forces Putin could treat that as a declaration of war by NATO and send nukes against them too.

    In which case NATO would also respond with nukes. By that stage you should have bought a one way ticket to Switzerland, South America or South Africa as NATO states and Russia and NATO allies like Ireland, Australia and Japan and Putin allies like Belarus and North Korea would likely be obliterated
    You might be right, but clearly the Americans have game theoried this already and this is the proposed response. They'd have to do something

    The other thing to bear in mind is we will probably get lots of notice? Surely tricky to get a battlefield nuke ready to go without US intelligence clocking it.
    They should tighten sanctions and just blockade and isolate Putin. Going to war with Russia risks going nuclear and involving us in nuclear war too. That should only be done if a NATO nation is attacked, Ukraine is not in NATO
    If Ukraine is attacked with nuclear weapons then that's an attack on NATO since the radiation would hit NATO nations. So Russia needs to be absolutely clear a nuclear attack on Ukraine is an attack on NATO and would get the full force of response that any other attack on NATO would get.
    Then that likely leads us to nuclear war despite no direct attack on a NATO state.

    In which case as I said book a one way ticket to Switzerland or South America or Africa or say your prayers
    Only if Russia chooses to attack NATO by using nuclear weapons, and if they have then that's their choice.

    Russia using nukes and sending a mushroom cloud of radiation into Poland is an attack on NATO, they need to be in no doubt about that, and if they attack NATO then they own the consequences.

    The alternative, is they choose not to attack NATO, not that NATO lets even attacks on NATO slide by.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808
    darkage said:

    Cummings looks like he was right, Truss is absolutely hopeless. Bad communicator, useless manager, not a team player, and an ideologue as well. The question that troubles me though, is how she could have a decade or so in government and not see what the job really entails. How did she keep getting promotions and top jobs and then be such an abysmal failure as PM?

    You could say the same about the clown - Mrs May gave him the FS job so that he could be shown wanting in high office…he was shown wanting in high office…so he then got to have a got at the highest office, and again was shown wanting.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808
    edited October 3
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nadine only backed Truss to stop Sunak. She would swap Truss for Boris again tomorrow

    She would and that makes two of you. Not sure how many others would though.

    I know you can show me polls (probably all of them actually) that show Boris doing better than Truss and I agree he would, but that doesn't mean those people who prefer Boris to Truss wouldn't prefer someone else to Boris.

    And the key thing of course is Boris is not fit to be PM anyway even if he was as popular as sliced bread.
    If the Tories put him back, then they’d have shown to be mad three times over. He’d get the briefest of honeymoon and then at the first hint of a new scandal or gaffe, we’d be back precisely where we are now.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245
    edited October 3
    The Lib Dems have a truly atrocious retention rate. Only 35% (!) of 2019 Lib Dem voters are intending on sticking with the party next time round. Surely this is terrific news for Lab Maj buyers?

    2019 Labour voters’ VI:

    Lab 85%
    Grn 8%
    LD 4%
    SNP 1%
    Con 1%

    2019 Conservative voters’ VI:

    Con 57%
    Lab 27%
    Ref 8%
    Grn 2%
    LD 2%
    oth 3%

    2019 Liberal Democrat voters’ VI:

    Lab 57%
    LD 35%
    Grn 5%
    SNP 2%
    Con 1%
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,042
    darkage said:

    Cummings looks like he was right, Truss is absolutely hopeless. Bad communicator, useless manager, not a team player, and an ideologue as well. The question that troubles me though, is how she could have a decade or so in government and not see what the job really entails. How did she keep getting promotions and top jobs and then be such an abysmal failure as PM?

    How could she have had a decade in Government and MPs still vote for her is what troubles me more!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,226
    JRM calls Gove “the Tory Peter Mandelson”
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,576
    Heart of stone not to laugh etc. If you want a friend in politics get a dog.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808
    The Sunday Rawnsley (on a Monday):

    One veteran Tory MP reports that a younger colleague “rang me and said: ‘What should we do?’ I replied: ‘Prepare for opposition.’’ The financial earthquakes triggered by the Truss regime have been accompanied by what feels like a major shift in the tectonic plates of politics.

    This reversal in fortunes is explained by a reversal of roles. When they were last asked to choose a government, most voters regarded Labour as a crazy party that they simply could not trust with office. They recoiled from what they saw as an alarming outfit run by ideological fanatics and consigned Labour to a defeat so bad that its parliamentary representation was crushed to its lowest level since 1935.

    I can’t see Truss recovering from this and Kwarteng has blown his credibility,” says one former Tory cabinet minister. “Credibility is like virginity. Once you’ve lost it, you can’t get it back.” Many Tory MPs think their reputation as the party of economic competence, never truly deserved in the first place, has been fatally trashed. But as zealots are wont to do, Ms Truss and her chancellor blame everyone but themselves. And as zealots are also wont to do, they are refusing to compromise with reality.

    “We’re going to go down in flames,” says one of the many Tories in whom anger rubs shoulders with despair. The more certain it seems that the Tories will be shown the door, the more desperate, divided and deranged they will become. Some of them have already concluded that it would be better for both their party and the country if they were removed from power. Britain is getting moving. Running for its life from the Conservatives.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245
    Douglas Ross making a tit of himself.
    Must be Monday.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,918
    Scott_xP said:
    I can't recall ever agreeing with Esther McVey but I believe she is right. As I have mentioned before those of us better off can afford a link to say earnings (as @hyufd would prefer) but for those on benefits a rise below the cost of inflation could be catastrophic.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,245
    edited October 3
    algarkirk said:

    Heart of stone not to laugh etc. If you want a friend in politics get a dog.

    Cats have the right idea.

    https://twitter.com/queerlyautistic/status/1576280262199369728?s=46&t=g1OgyLX7Rm8sHMXVDVtm8w
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,918
    Scott_xP said:

    JRM calls Gove “the Tory Peter Mandelson”

    I don't know whether that is an insult or a compliment.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 27,620
    Scott_xP said:

    JRM calls Gove “the Tory Peter Mandelson”

    Is that a compliment or an insult?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    So, is the choice for Putin essentially this: lose or go nuclear?

    Yes
    Not really - the choice is to lose or to lose.

    If he goes nuclear - the only difference will be he delays things a few days / weeks and still loses.....

    No, Nuclear is by definition imponderable. Never been done. Probably means catastrophe for the world, certainly means intense chaos and pain, which is why it might appeal to a dictator facing the end

    I’ve been thinking about Putin’s nuclear option this weekend. My reckoning is the Russian military would likely revolt if Putin ordered a nuclear strike. So it wouldn’t happen. I just wish I could be certain
    David Petraeus has been interesting on this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/02/us-russia-putin-ukraine-war-david-petraeus
    If the US sunk Putin's fleet and destroyed Russian ground forces Putin could treat that as a declaration of war by NATO and send nukes against them too.

    In which case NATO would also respond with nukes. By that stage you should have bought a one way ticket to Switzerland, South America or South Africa as NATO states and Russia and NATO allies like Ireland, Australia and Japan and Putin allies like Belarus and North Korea would likely be obliterated
    You might be right, but clearly the Americans have game theoried this already and this is the proposed response. They'd have to do something

    The other thing to bear in mind is we will probably get lots of notice? Surely tricky to get a battlefield nuke ready to go without US intelligence clocking it.
    They should tighten sanctions and just blockade and isolate Putin. Going to war with Russia risks going nuclear and involving us in nuclear war too. That should only be done if a NATO nation is attacked, Ukraine is not in NATO
    If Ukraine is attacked with nuclear weapons then that's an attack on NATO since the radiation would hit NATO nations. So Russia needs to be absolutely clear a nuclear attack on Ukraine is an attack on NATO and would get the full force of response that any other attack on NATO would get.
    Then that likely leads us to nuclear war despite no direct attack on a NATO state.

    In which case as I said book a one way ticket to Switzerland or South America or Africa or say your prayers
    Only if Russia chooses to attack NATO by using nuclear weapons, and if they have then that's their choice.

    Russia using nukes and sending a mushroom cloud of radiation into Poland is an attack on NATO, they need to be in no doubt about that, and if they attack NATO then they own the consequences.

    The alternative, is they choose not to attack NATO, not that NATO lets even attacks on NATO slide by.
    If Putin has launched a tactical nuclear weapon against Ukraine then he is quite capable of launching nuclear weapons on NATO too if it sinks his fleet.

    A cloud over Poland is not a direct attack on NATO enough to likely lead NATO to war, likely nuclear war with Russia, only invasion or a direct attack on a NATO state is. Ukraine is not in NATO.

    If it gets to that point as I said get a one way ticket to Switzerland, South America or Africa

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 27,620
    kjh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    JRM calls Gove “the Tory Peter Mandelson”

    I don't know whether that is an insult or a compliment.
    Snap!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,864
    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,233
    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    It’s the beginning of the end.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,918

    The Lib Dems have a truly atrocious retention rate. Only 35% (!) of 2019 Lib Dem voters are intending on sticking with the party next time round. Surely this is terrific news for Lab Maj buyers?

    2019 Labour voters’ VI:

    Lab 85%
    Grn 8%
    LD 4%
    SNP 1%
    Con 1%

    2019 Conservative voters’ VI:

    Con 57%
    Lab 27%
    Ref 8%
    Grn 2%
    LD 2%
    oth 3%

    2019 Liberal Democrat voters’ VI:

    Lab 57%
    LD 35%
    Grn 5%
    SNP 2%
    Con 1%

    In raw numbers (which is what counts) presumably you have to multiply the Tory switchers to LD by approx 4 and the Lab switches by approx 3 to get a comparison as the LD raw numbers are approx a 1/4 and 1/3 of the others.

    However the result is still rubbish for the LDs. I assume (hope) that will improve with tactical voting. It was noticeable that during the Labour conference there was a huge swing away from Con all the way to Lab. If anything the LDs went slightly backwards rather than benefiting from the Tory troubles.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Fortubately they wont be ready for deployment in the current crisis.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,527
    edited October 3
    Russians now inventing forests.

    Russian sources on the situation in the settlements west of Svatove near the Oskil river
    "Our troops are withdrawing without a fight, which is caused by the impossibility of successfully defending this vast wooded area"

    https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1576896784344809474

    This is the area discussed. See the forest spreads in every direction!


  • novanova Posts: 468

    The Lib Dems have a truly atrocious retention rate. Only 35% (!) of 2019 Lib Dem voters are intending on sticking with the party next time round. Surely this is terrific news for Lab Maj buyers?

    2019 Labour voters’ VI:

    Lab 85%
    Grn 8%
    LD 4%
    SNP 1%
    Con 1%

    2019 Conservative voters’ VI:

    Con 57%
    Lab 27%
    Ref 8%
    Grn 2%
    LD 2%
    oth 3%

    2019 Liberal Democrat voters’ VI:

    Lab 57%
    LD 35%
    Grn 5%
    SNP 2%
    Con 1%

    Not sure how much sense those figures make without the Don't Knows. From recent polls, I'd guess Tory Don't Knows in those figures would be well above the Labour figure, bringing their retention figures down to near those Lib Dem figures.

    As for the Lib Dems, I guess it's less to do with them, and more to do with the stark difference between Corbyn and Starmer if you're a Lib Dem. There's also the significant factor that even with Corbyn, lots of Lib Dem "voters" will have been tactical, and that many of the LD>Labour in the figures above will be LD when it comes to a Tory/LD ballot.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Dura_Ace said:

    Alistair said:

    While Ukraine is generally doing well they got absolutely mauled recently on the way to Davydov Brod.

    https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1576662322428485633

    Careful now. You'll get put on a charge for posting stuff like that.
    Pffft, I'm half a step away from unironically posting #NAFO Shiba memes.

    It's interesting filtering through Twitter to get a feel for what is going on. Back in summer when Ukraine was throwing away it's best troops getting mashed in Severodonetsk and Lyschansk there was incredible levels of wish fulfilment posted by pro-Ukraine sources (echoed here) about how this was all brilliant strategy to lure Russia into a trap.

    Over the last month that style of posting has now infected pro-Russian sources tenfold where every Ukrainian success is actually all part of the Putin master plan and the secret wonder strategy is about to be revealed which will take Odessa in days. This convoy being blatted is the high point of Russian twitter after a barren 2 months and they will feast on it for a week.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,204
    kjh said:

    The Lib Dems have a truly atrocious retention rate. Only 35% (!) of 2019 Lib Dem voters are intending on sticking with the party next time round. Surely this is terrific news for Lab Maj buyers?

    2019 Labour voters’ VI:

    Lab 85%
    Grn 8%
    LD 4%
    SNP 1%
    Con 1%

    2019 Conservative voters’ VI:

    Con 57%
    Lab 27%
    Ref 8%
    Grn 2%
    LD 2%
    oth 3%

    2019 Liberal Democrat voters’ VI:

    Lab 57%
    LD 35%
    Grn 5%
    SNP 2%
    Con 1%

    In raw numbers (which is what counts) presumably you have to multiply the Tory switchers to LD by approx 4 and the Lab switches by approx 3 to get a comparison as the LD raw numbers are approx a 1/4 and 1/3 of the others.

    However the result is still rubbish for the LDs. I assume (hope) that will improve with tactical voting. It was noticeable that during the Labour conference there was a huge swing away from Con all the way to Lab. If anything the LDs went slightly backwards rather than benefiting from the Tory troubles.
    It's the effect TSE was talking about, Tory voters, such as myself, TSE and CasinoRoyale are inclined to give Labour a clear run rather than have to get into bed with some other party that they can blame for not being able to fix anything or have to waste time placating with referenda.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,977
    edited October 3
    Truss's ineptitude just highlights what a mistake the Tories made by not putting Kemi Badenoch into the run off. She wouldn't have made this budget mistake, and the risks she would have taken would have gone much more with the grain of public opinion.

    Where Truss is a Thatcher wannabe, Badenoch is much more the genuine article but in a new context.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,363
    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Having spent the best part of two years listening to you trawling Twitter for any form of bad news relating to Covid-19 (aka "the Satan Bug" as you put it), and having been brought until the age of 10 within 10 miles of Greenham Common airbase, crapping myself every night that the planes going overhead into LHR might be cruise missiles, I'll pass on your latest efforts at making us shit ourselves thanks. You're either the boy who cried wolf or this is the end I've been terrified about since I was a child anyway.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,847
    Infuriate Nadine... well she's done something right.....
  • PhilPhil Posts: 1,132
    C4 sale, online safety, BBC licence feee review - all signed off by cabinet all ready to go
    All of these were either terrible ideas to start with, or workable ideas that were terribly implemented (no surprise there, given Dorries’ history) so I find my self entirely unmoved by Nadine’s distress.

    C4 sale was pointless, online safety was implemented in a way that would throttle any UK local internet company in the crib, further entrenching the internet giants at the expense of any possible future competitors. Meanwhile the BBC is going to have to be reformed somehow in the light of streaming / internet revolution, but there was no sign that the government was willing to actually engage with reality here either.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,204

    Truss's ineptitude just highlights what a mistake the Tories made by not putting Kemi Badenoch into the run off. She wouldn't have made this budget mistake, and the risks she would have taken would have gone much more with the grain of public opinion.

    Where Truss is a Thatcher wannabe, Badenoch is much more the genuine article but in a new context.

    Yes, Kemi was the right choice at maybe the wrong time. Opposition leader in the run up to a landslide victory is what she needs.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808

    The Lib Dems have a truly atrocious retention rate. Only 35% (!) of 2019 Lib Dem voters are intending on sticking with the party next time round. Surely this is terrific news for Lab Maj buyers?

    2019 Labour voters’ VI:

    Lab 85%
    Grn 8%
    LD 4%
    SNP 1%
    Con 1%

    2019 Conservative voters’ VI:

    Con 57%
    Lab 27%
    Ref 8%
    Grn 2%
    LD 2%
    oth 3%

    2019 Liberal Democrat voters’ VI:

    Lab 57%
    LD 35%
    Grn 5%
    SNP 2%
    Con 1%

    That’s pretty normal, and the compensation for the party (aside from the fact that a fair few will return when the election comes, if they live in hard fought seats) is that it has a larger slice of the population willing to consider supporting it than does Tory or Labour.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,048
    For those that say Putin must be given an off-ramp:
    https://twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1576685592859271168
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,203

    Scott_xP said:

    JRM calls Gove “the Tory Peter Mandelson”

    Is that a compliment or an insult?
    Why not both?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,757
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Having spent the best part of two years listening to you trawling Twitter for any form of bad news relating to Covid-19 (aka "the Satan Bug" as you put it), and having been brought until the age of 10 within 10 miles of Greenham Common airbase, crapping myself every night that the planes going overhead into LHR might be cruise missiles, I'll pass on your latest efforts at making us shit ourselves thanks. You're either the boy who cried wolf or this is the end I've been terrified about since I was a child anyway.
    Could be good news for the seals though -

    From 2011:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nuclear-war-global-warming_n_828496
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,864
    Excellent article on potential nuclear war from June

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/06/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapon-us-response/661315/

    It has this paragraph, which now feels unnervingly prescient

    “ Sagan concedes that if Russia were to lose major battles in the Donbas, or if a Ukrainian counteroffensive seemed on the verge of a great victory, Putin might well order the use of a nuclear weapon to obtain a surrender or a cease-fire.”
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,695
    It's not just Nad who wants Boris back. Remember that a large part of the membership was spitting feathers at the booting out of Boris and they only backed Truss because she was the anti-anti-Boris candidate.

    There is no great love for her "out there" in Cons membership land.

    This means she is more vulnerable especially because if Boris were still leader and had introduced precisely the same mini-budget then the Cons would be 10pts ahead in the polls.

    Or at least I think that's how the Boris fanclub sees things.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,048
    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Putin's at the Wunderwaffe stage. You may not have noticed, but the vast majority of Russia's stronkiest of stronk weapons - the T14 Armata, the Sukhoi Su-57 etc - have not been seen in Ukraine, despite them being Russia's wonder weapons.

    You may ask yourself why, and the answers are obvious despite their having been around for a fair few years:

    They don't work very well.

    Russia's test of a nuclear-powered missile a few years back did not go swimmingly:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa_radiation_accident

    Is the Manhattan Project the only time a 'wonder weapon' has actually unequivocally ended a war?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,321

    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Putin's at the Wunderwaffe stage. You may not have noticed, but the vast majority of Russia's stronkiest of stronk weapons - the T14 Armata, the Sukhoi Su-57 etc - have not been seen in Ukraine, despite them being Russia's wonder weapons.

    You may ask yourself why, and the answers are obvious despite their having been around for a fair few years:

    They don't work very well.

    Russia's test of a nuclear-powered missile a few years back did not go swimmingly:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa_radiation_accident

    Is the Manhattan Project the only time a 'wonder weapon' has actually unequivocally ended a war?
    If this war is evidence that Russia cannot co-ordinate a large scale conventional means assault on NATO, then surely it cannot also risk being shown to be unable to conduct a sustained nuclear assault either. Makes you think...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,584
    She's not only infuriated Nadine Dorries, Liz Truss has also infuriated me as well with this attack on hard working people like me.

    I have already spent those income tax cuts.

    One of the things that have made me confident that Truss won't last a year is that she only has 50 MPs who backed her in the first round, the overwhelming majority of Tory MPs do not rate her.

    I expect backbench rebellions on the spending cuts and not uprating benefits in line with inflation.

    So, Truss is in office but not in power.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,203

    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Putin's at the Wunderwaffe stage. You may not have noticed, but the vast majority of Russia's stronkiest of stronk weapons - the T14 Armata, the Sukhoi Su-57 etc - have not been seen in Ukraine, despite them being Russia's wonder weapons.

    You may ask yourself why, and the answers are obvious despite their having been around for a fair few years:

    They don't work very well.

    Russia's test of a nuclear-powered missile a few years back did not go swimmingly:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa_radiation_accident

    Is the Manhattan Project the only time a 'wonder weapon' has actually unequivocally ended a war?
    Probably.

    Russia has had a long history of announcing all kinds of commando comics war winning weapons and technologies and then not actually building them. Or turning out to be a lot less than claimed. All the way back to the USSR.

    A favourite was the sub launched SAM - which would destroy all NATO ASW aircraft.

    Which turned out to be a shoulder launched SAM which could be fired by a man on the sail, when running on the surface….
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,864
    Cicero said:

    FWIW the feeling in the Baltic is that Russia is not yet ready to go nuclear. In any event there is no intelligence that a nuclear launch is being prepared. The hardliners who are shouting about a nuclear strike are those who previously demanded the disastrous mobilization and have therefore been rather discredited. There is no equipment or even food for the recruits, and many are simply being left in the open air in cities across Russia, with no logistics to get them anywhere near the front. As noted over the weekend, at least three hundred thousand young men have left the country and that number could be higher. In as far as anyone can tell, support for the regime is evaporating, but the quiescent Russians still seem a long way from an Iranian style rebellion. On the other hand, the situation in Belarus is getting more and more tense, and if Lukashenka complies with Putin´s "request" to join the war, he may face the collapse of his government.

    It is clear that Russia no longer has anything like the number of warheads that the were thought to possess, and while NATO will clearly not want to take a nuclear risk, there is a possibility that Russia would not want to take the risk either since it would probably involve the complete destruction of the Russian armed forces by NATO and quite likely sufficient counter strikes to eliminate the Russian nuclear forces too.

    Meanwhile the defeat at Lyman is now looking like a turning point. Russian casualties were extremely high, to the point that there are no reserves to plug the holes in the Russian lines, and a disorderly retreat is now becoming a rout. After Savatove and Kreminna, we could be looking at the collapse of the whole North Luhansk front. Meanwhile Russian sources have confirmed a major Ukrainian breakthrough close to Kherson, where about 25,000 Russian troops are trapped. If Kherson falls, there is basically nothing between the Ukrainians and Crimea.

    So from the Russian point of view, there is no good news. The army is in an increasingly bad way, and there is no game changer in sight. Few governments survive such a self-inflicted disaster and the regime is now under increasingly severe strain. There is an Indian summer in Ukraine at the moment, but when the cold finally comes, the view here is that the ill equipped Russian forces will face a logistics collapse that will seal their fate.


    “FWIW the feeling in the Baltic is that Russia is not yet ready to go nuclear”

    A brilliant contender for

    LEAST REASSURING OPENING LINE TO A PB COMMENT EVER WRITTEN
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,048

    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Putin's at the Wunderwaffe stage. You may not have noticed, but the vast majority of Russia's stronkiest of stronk weapons - the T14 Armata, the Sukhoi Su-57 etc - have not been seen in Ukraine, despite them being Russia's wonder weapons.

    You may ask yourself why, and the answers are obvious despite their having been around for a fair few years:

    They don't work very well.

    Russia's test of a nuclear-powered missile a few years back did not go swimmingly:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa_radiation_accident

    Is the Manhattan Project the only time a 'wonder weapon' has actually unequivocally ended a war?
    If this war is evidence that Russia cannot co-ordinate a large scale conventional means assault on NATO, then surely it cannot also risk being shown to be unable to conduct a sustained nuclear assault either. Makes you think...
    If things continue the way they are, then the nuclear threat might be the only 'weapon' stopping China from covetously eyeing up resource-rich territory in eastern Russia. Using nukes, and it not stopping the war (or worse, the nukes not even working) would leave Russia naked.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,757
    Deutsche liabilities 1.2T, Credit Suisse 0.6T.
    Currency ?
    Any of euro, dollar, sterling or Swiss franc since they're all close to the same nominal value these days
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,673
    Is it just me, or does the actual u turn on 45p seem to be making the whole thing worse?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    FWIW the feeling in the Baltic is that Russia is not yet ready to go nuclear. In any event there is no intelligence that a nuclear launch is being prepared. The hardliners who are shouting about a nuclear strike are those who previously demanded the disastrous mobilization and have therefore been rather discredited. There is no equipment or even food for the recruits, and many are simply being left in the open air in cities across Russia, with no logistics to get them anywhere near the front. As noted over the weekend, at least three hundred thousand young men have left the country and that number could be higher. In as far as anyone can tell, support for the regime is evaporating, but the quiescent Russians still seem a long way from an Iranian style rebellion. On the other hand, the situation in Belarus is getting more and more tense, and if Lukashenka complies with Putin´s "request" to join the war, he may face the collapse of his government.

    It is clear that Russia no longer has anything like the number of warheads that the were thought to possess, and while NATO will clearly not want to take a nuclear risk, there is a possibility that Russia would not want to take the risk either since it would probably involve the complete destruction of the Russian armed forces by NATO and quite likely sufficient counter strikes to eliminate the Russian nuclear forces too.

    Meanwhile the defeat at Lyman is now looking like a turning point. Russian casualties were extremely high, to the point that there are no reserves to plug the holes in the Russian lines, and a disorderly retreat is now becoming a rout. After Savatove and Kreminna, we could be looking at the collapse of the whole North Luhansk front. Meanwhile Russian sources have confirmed a major Ukrainian breakthrough close to Kherson, where about 25,000 Russian troops are trapped. If Kherson falls, there is basically nothing between the Ukrainians and Crimea.

    So from the Russian point of view, there is no good news. The army is in an increasingly bad way, and there is no game changer in sight. Few governments survive such a self-inflicted disaster and the regime is now under increasingly severe strain. There is an Indian summer in Ukraine at the moment, but when the cold finally comes, the view here is that the ill equipped Russian forces will face a logistics collapse that will seal their fate.


    “FWIW the feeling in the Baltic is that Russia is not yet ready to go nuclear”

    A brilliant contender for

    LEAST REASSURING OPENING LINE TO A PB COMMENT EVER WRITTEN
    Be fair, you’ve already won the contest for most reassuring… since every PB’er knows that any disaster you warn about will never happen.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,571

    She's not only infuriated Nadine Dorries, Liz Truss has also infuriated me as well with this attack on hard working people like me.

    I have already spent those income tax cuts.

    One of the things that have made me confident that Truss won't last a year is that she only has 50 MPs who backed her in the first round, the overwhelming majority of Tory MPs do not rate her.

    I expect backbench rebellions on the spending cuts and not uprating benefits in line with inflation.

    So, Truss is in office but not in power.

    1 of those 50 MPs would be Nads. 🤭

    Truss is never at her best when she lightens her hair colour. If she darkens the hair a notch or two it’s game on again. She is so much more fluent and persuasive when her hair is not so light.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,620

    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Putin's at the Wunderwaffe stage. You may not have noticed, but the vast majority of Russia's stronkiest of stronk weapons - the T14 Armata, the Sukhoi Su-57 etc - have not been seen in Ukraine, despite them being Russia's wonder weapons.

    You may ask yourself why, and the answers are obvious despite their having been around for a fair few years:

    They don't work very well.

    Russia's test of a nuclear-powered missile a few years back did not go swimmingly:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa_radiation_accident

    Is the Manhattan Project the only time a 'wonder weapon' has actually unequivocally ended a war?
    When you look at the fire raids on Tokyo in March 1945 which devastated more city and killed as many people as the 2 atom bombs it isn't clear that the Manhattan project "unequivocally ended a war". The Soviet invasion of Manchuria and American bombardment alongside the submarine war meant that Japan was conventionally defeated first. Maybe another couple of months longer, but done.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,363

    Is it just me, or does the actual u turn on 45p seem to be making the whole thing worse?

    It's certainly not made anything better.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,584

    Is it just me, or does the actual u turn on 45p seem to be making the whole thing worse?

    Not just you.

    Political authority is a lot like virginity one prick and it is gone once it is gone, it is very hard to get back.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,203

    Is it just me, or does the actual u turn on 45p seem to be making the whole thing worse?

    No, it isn’t just you. Probably most of the electorate.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,864
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    FWIW the feeling in the Baltic is that Russia is not yet ready to go nuclear. In any event there is no intelligence that a nuclear launch is being prepared. The hardliners who are shouting about a nuclear strike are those who previously demanded the disastrous mobilization and have therefore been rather discredited. There is no equipment or even food for the recruits, and many are simply being left in the open air in cities across Russia, with no logistics to get them anywhere near the front. As noted over the weekend, at least three hundred thousand young men have left the country and that number could be higher. In as far as anyone can tell, support for the regime is evaporating, but the quiescent Russians still seem a long way from an Iranian style rebellion. On the other hand, the situation in Belarus is getting more and more tense, and if Lukashenka complies with Putin´s "request" to join the war, he may face the collapse of his government.

    It is clear that Russia no longer has anything like the number of warheads that the were thought to possess, and while NATO will clearly not want to take a nuclear risk, there is a possibility that Russia would not want to take the risk either since it would probably involve the complete destruction of the Russian armed forces by NATO and quite likely sufficient counter strikes to eliminate the Russian nuclear forces too.

    Meanwhile the defeat at Lyman is now looking like a turning point. Russian casualties were extremely high, to the point that there are no reserves to plug the holes in the Russian lines, and a disorderly retreat is now becoming a rout. After Savatove and Kreminna, we could be looking at the collapse of the whole North Luhansk front. Meanwhile Russian sources have confirmed a major Ukrainian breakthrough close to Kherson, where about 25,000 Russian troops are trapped. If Kherson falls, there is basically nothing between the Ukrainians and Crimea.

    So from the Russian point of view, there is no good news. The army is in an increasingly bad way, and there is no game changer in sight. Few governments survive such a self-inflicted disaster and the regime is now under increasingly severe strain. There is an Indian summer in Ukraine at the moment, but when the cold finally comes, the view here is that the ill equipped Russian forces will face a logistics collapse that will seal their fate.


    “FWIW the feeling in the Baltic is that Russia is not yet ready to go nuclear”

    A brilliant contender for

    LEAST REASSURING OPENING LINE TO A PB COMMENT EVER WRITTEN
    Be fair, you’ve already won the contest for most reassuring… since every PB’er knows that any disaster you warn about will never happen.
    Except I spotted the Liz Truss necklace after 2 minutes, and 3 months before everyone else, when the rest of you dweebs were still droning on about “policies”
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,977

    She's not only infuriated Nadine Dorries, Liz Truss has also infuriated me as well with this attack on hard working people like me.

    I have already spent those income tax cuts.

    One of the things that have made me confident that Truss won't last a year is that she only has 50 MPs who backed her in the first round, the overwhelming majority of Tory MPs do not rate her.

    I expect backbench rebellions on the spending cuts and not uprating benefits in line with inflation.

    So, Truss is in office but not in power.

    1 of those 50 MPs would be Nads. 🤭

    Truss is never at her best when she lightens her hair colour. If she darkens the hair a notch or two it’s game on again. She is so much more fluent and persuasive when her hair is not so light.
    Perhaps she should have a perm to show that she intends to stay?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,363
    Pulpstar said:

    Deutsche liabilities 1.2T, Credit Suisse 0.6T.
    Currency ?
    Any of euro, dollar, sterling or Swiss franc since they're all close to the same nominal value these days

    I was reminiscing the other day with an old friend about a school trip to Austria in 1990 when the teachers were tickled pink and kept going on about the fact there were 20 Schillings to the Pound. None of us kids had a clue what they were on about, but anyway.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Pulpstar said:

    Deutsche liabilities 1.2T

    Wow, that loan to Trump was larger than I thought.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,864
    In retrospect THE NECKLACE was a massive tell. Someone who is prepared to display their BDSM status to the world, even as Prime Minister of the UK, is someone of extraordinary recklessness, who will do mad things, for good or ill

    Voila
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,620

    Is it just me, or does the actual u turn on 45p seem to be making the whole thing worse?

    Not just you.

    Political authority is a lot like virginity one prick and it is gone once it is gone, it is very hard to get back.
    I knew a girl who claimed virginity grew back after six months. Seemed reasonable to me!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,757
    edited October 3

    Is it just me, or does the actual u turn on 45p seem to be making the whole thing worse?

    No, it isn’t just you. Probably most of the electorate.
    It's like driving the car home after being out on the lash and pranging it isn't it ? The car's back in the original position at your drive at home but your front end is still wrecked.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,363
    MoonRabbit's hair commentary is always the most knowledgeable and persuasive on any thread
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 2,771
    Foxy said:

    Is it just me, or does the actual u turn on 45p seem to be making the whole thing worse?

    Not just you.

    Political authority is a lot like virginity one prick and it is gone once it is gone, it is very hard to get back.
    I knew a girl who claimed virginity grew back after six months. Seemed reasonable to me!
    Would have saved King Charles a lot of problems.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,203
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Deutsche liabilities 1.2T

    Wow, that loan to Trump was larger than I thought.
    There was a city joke that Trump was the high quality end of the DB investment portfolio….
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,048
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Putin's at the Wunderwaffe stage. You may not have noticed, but the vast majority of Russia's stronkiest of stronk weapons - the T14 Armata, the Sukhoi Su-57 etc - have not been seen in Ukraine, despite them being Russia's wonder weapons.

    You may ask yourself why, and the answers are obvious despite their having been around for a fair few years:

    They don't work very well.

    Russia's test of a nuclear-powered missile a few years back did not go swimmingly:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa_radiation_accident

    Is the Manhattan Project the only time a 'wonder weapon' has actually unequivocally ended a war?
    When you look at the fire raids on Tokyo in March 1945 which devastated more city and killed as many people as the 2 atom bombs it isn't clear that the Manhattan project "unequivocally ended a war". The Soviet invasion of Manchuria and American bombardment alongside the submarine war meant that Japan was conventionally defeated first. Maybe another couple of months longer, but done.
    I am far from convinced that was the case. Many in Japan's leadership thought they could fight on - which is why they did not admit defeat even after one nuclear blast. They were also keeping a large amount of material over for the invasion of the home islands. And what in the previous ten years of war (including China), gives you the impression that the Japanese were going to surrender?

    A sad little factoid:
    "During World War II, 1,506,000 Purple Heart medals were manufactured, many in anticipation of the estimated casualties resulting from the planned Allied invasion of Japan. By the end of the war, even accounting for medals lost, stolen, or wasted, nearly 500,000 remained. To the present date, the total combined American military casualties of the seventy years following the end of World War II—including the Korean and Vietnam Wars—have not exceeded that number. In 2000, there remained 120,000 Purple Heart medals in stock. The existing surplus allowed combat units in Iraq and Afghanistan to keep Purple Hearts on hand for immediate award to soldiers wounded in the field."

    *That* was the extent of casualties the US was expecting - more casualties than have occurred in all their wars since.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,864
    The Ukrainian boffins have debunked the Ukrainian boffins - on UFOs

    https://twitter.com/mickwest/status/1576925108165218304?s=46&t=-o1LlzAPODZdbIpCh9U1Lg

    Still some debate on Twitter tho
  • pingping Posts: 3,201
    edited October 3
    Pulpstar said:

    This might be a controversial view but I don't think it should be down to the government to keep people "safe" online. Adults are free to make their own choices and parents have parental responsibility.

    Sorry, Pulp, I disagree. How exactly are parents supposed to keep their kids safe online?

    The answer is, they can’t.

    The world has now got to the point where the online/offline distinction has become irrelevant. I think todays youngsters understand this. Adults over ~30ish, still don’t get it. They think of the internet as a “thing” that can be turned off. It can’t.

    The laws need to be recalibrated for this new hybrid world, but I think it’s absolutely the case that government should keep us safe.

    The internet is the real world. It needs to be policed.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,922
    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nadine only backed Truss to stop Sunak. She would swap Truss for Boris again tomorrow

    She would and that makes two of you. Not sure how many others would though.

    I know you can show me polls (probably all of them actually) that show Boris doing better than Truss and I agree he would, but that doesn't mean those people who prefer Boris to Truss wouldn't prefer someone else to Boris.

    And the key thing of course is Boris is not fit to be PM anyway even if he was as popular as sliced bread.
    If the Tories put him back, then they’d have shown to be mad three times over. He’d get the briefest of honeymoon and then at the first hint of a new scandal or gaffe, we’d be back precisely where we are now.
    Where we were in the spring surely?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,226
    ...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,767
    ping said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This might be a controversial view but I don't think it should be down to the government to keep people "safe" online. Adults are free to make their own choices and parents have parental responsibility.

    Sorry, Pulp, I disagree. How exactly are parents supposed to keep their kids safe online?

    The answer is, they can’t.

    I think the world has now got to the point where the online/offline distinction has become irrelevant. I think todays youngsters understand this. Adults over ~30ish, still don’t get it.

    The laws need to be recalibrated for this new hybrid world, but I think it’s absolutely the case that government should keep us safe.

    The internet is the real world. It needs to be policed.
    And who is going to pay for that?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,757
    Getting Boris back in isn't going to put the Emperor's new Clothes back on wrt Britain's fiscal credibility. That's a hare that's well and truly off.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,226
    The headbangers are still going for it. This thread is amazing

    At 'The Freedom Zone' outside Tory conference where Conservative MPs are discussing "Getting Brexit Done" and "Restoring conservatism in the Conservative Party." CPC22 https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1576905450443853825/photo/1
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,354
    Nadine v Liz = a Gremlin given a weak spritzer after midnight v the runt of the Predator litter.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,631
    ping said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This might be a controversial view but I don't think it should be down to the government to keep people "safe" online. Adults are free to make their own choices and parents have parental responsibility.

    Sorry, Pulp, I disagree. How exactly are parents supposed to keep their kids safe online?

    The answer is, they can’t.

    The world has now got to the point where the online/offline distinction has become irrelevant. I think todays youngsters understand this. Adults over ~30ish, still don’t get it. They think of the internet as a “thing” that can be turned off. It can’t.

    The laws need to be recalibrated for this new hybrid world, but I think it’s absolutely the case that government should keep us safe.

    The internet is the real world. It needs to be policed.
    To some degree it does need to be policed but it is not the government's job to keep us safe.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,695
    Just backed Rishi for next PM and next Cons leader.

    Have heard rumblings that Liz is not long for this world of PMness.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,912

    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Putin's at the Wunderwaffe stage. You may not have noticed, but the vast majority of Russia's stronkiest of stronk weapons - the T14 Armata, the Sukhoi Su-57 etc - have not been seen in Ukraine, despite them being Russia's wonder weapons.

    You may ask yourself why, and the answers are obvious despite their having been around for a fair few years:

    They don't work very well.

    Russia's test of a nuclear-powered missile a few years back did not go swimmingly:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa_radiation_accident

    Is the Manhattan Project the only time a 'wonder weapon' has actually unequivocally ended a war?
    Probably.

    Russia has had a long history of announcing all kinds of commando comics war winning weapons and technologies and then not actually building them. Or turning out to be a lot less than claimed. All the way back to the USSR.

    A favourite was the sub launched SAM - which would destroy all NATO ASW aircraft.

    Which turned out to be a shoulder launched SAM which could be fired by a man on the sail, when running on the surface….
    There’s also a lot of weapons announced more recently, that only appear to exist as Moscow parade-ground mockups or prototypes. Including tanks, large weapons systems, and fighter aircraft.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,876

    Is it just me, or does the actual u turn on 45p seem to be making the whole thing worse?

    What were the problems with the 45p thing?

    First, it showed the new top team as uncaring of anyone who wasn't a highly -paid banker. No improvement there, since they have been forced into a U Turn by lack of votes.

    Second, it showed they were careless with public finances. But they are only 2/45 less careless now, so that doesn't help.

    Finally, they've been seen to handled this incompetently, even if we can't express exactly why.

    Surely there will be a bit of bounce back from the 30 point deficits, surely? But Truss and Kwateng are as doomed as characters in World War Two movies who say that tonight is their last mission before they can leave to marry their childhood sweetheart.
  • Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Putin's at the Wunderwaffe stage. You may not have noticed, but the vast majority of Russia's stronkiest of stronk weapons - the T14 Armata, the Sukhoi Su-57 etc - have not been seen in Ukraine, despite them being Russia's wonder weapons.

    You may ask yourself why, and the answers are obvious despite their having been around for a fair few years:

    They don't work very well.

    Russia's test of a nuclear-powered missile a few years back did not go swimmingly:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa_radiation_accident

    Is the Manhattan Project the only time a 'wonder weapon' has actually unequivocally ended a war?
    If this war is evidence that Russia cannot co-ordinate a large scale conventional means assault on NATO, then surely it cannot also risk being shown to be unable to conduct a sustained nuclear assault either. Makes you think...
    If things continue the way they are, then the nuclear threat might be the only 'weapon' stopping China from covetously eyeing up resource-rich territory in eastern Russia. Using nukes, and it not stopping the war (or worse, the nukes not even working) would leave Russia naked.
    Precisely, this is why Leon should calm down (which is in itself an evergreen comment).

    Nukes presently mean Russia can withdraw back to its borders and that will be it. Use them, and its over, total war that will see the aftermath genuinely be how do we define the NATO/China border.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,048
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Putin's at the Wunderwaffe stage. You may not have noticed, but the vast majority of Russia's stronkiest of stronk weapons - the T14 Armata, the Sukhoi Su-57 etc - have not been seen in Ukraine, despite them being Russia's wonder weapons.

    You may ask yourself why, and the answers are obvious despite their having been around for a fair few years:

    They don't work very well.

    Russia's test of a nuclear-powered missile a few years back did not go swimmingly:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa_radiation_accident

    Is the Manhattan Project the only time a 'wonder weapon' has actually unequivocally ended a war?
    Probably.

    Russia has had a long history of announcing all kinds of commando comics war winning weapons and technologies and then not actually building them. Or turning out to be a lot less than claimed. All the way back to the USSR.

    A favourite was the sub launched SAM - which would destroy all NATO ASW aircraft.

    Which turned out to be a shoulder launched SAM which could be fired by a man on the sail, when running on the surface….
    There’s also a lot of weapons announced more recently, that only appear to exist as Moscow parade-ground mockups or prototypes. Including tanks, large weapons systems, and fighter aircraft.
    I believe they've been known to tout new weapons systems to export customers, and then say: "Pay us and we'll build it."

    I.e. there is not even a viable prototype yet.
  • pingping Posts: 3,201
    Stocky said:

    ping said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This might be a controversial view but I don't think it should be down to the government to keep people "safe" online. Adults are free to make their own choices and parents have parental responsibility.

    Sorry, Pulp, I disagree. How exactly are parents supposed to keep their kids safe online?

    The answer is, they can’t.

    The world has now got to the point where the online/offline distinction has become irrelevant. I think todays youngsters understand this. Adults over ~30ish, still don’t get it. They think of the internet as a “thing” that can be turned off. It can’t.

    The laws need to be recalibrated for this new hybrid world, but I think it’s absolutely the case that government should keep us safe.

    The internet is the real world. It needs to be policed.
    To some degree it does need to be policed but it is not the government's job to keep us safe.
    That’s an extreme libertarian position.

    Try polling that. I’d guess 90% would disagree!
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,552
    Scott_xP said:

    The headbangers are still going for it. This thread is amazing

    At 'The Freedom Zone' outside Tory conference where Conservative MPs are discussing "Getting Brexit Done" and "Restoring conservatism in the Conservative Party." CPC22 https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1576905450443853825/photo/1

    The freedom zone sounds like something you’d see at a GOP meeting .
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,354
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Putin's at the Wunderwaffe stage. You may not have noticed, but the vast majority of Russia's stronkiest of stronk weapons - the T14 Armata, the Sukhoi Su-57 etc - have not been seen in Ukraine, despite them being Russia's wonder weapons.

    You may ask yourself why, and the answers are obvious despite their having been around for a fair few years:

    They don't work very well.

    Russia's test of a nuclear-powered missile a few years back did not go swimmingly:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa_radiation_accident

    Is the Manhattan Project the only time a 'wonder weapon' has actually unequivocally ended a war?
    When you look at the fire raids on Tokyo in March 1945 which devastated more city and killed as many people as the 2 atom bombs it isn't clear that the Manhattan project "unequivocally ended a war". The Soviet invasion of Manchuria and American bombardment alongside the submarine war meant that Japan was conventionally defeated first. Maybe another couple of months longer, but done.
    As you say by mid 1945 Japan was a defeated country walking, the near destruction of its merchant capability arguably the most devastating blow. Ironically the 2 A bombs may have given the Japanese government & Hirohito an off ramp. Their devastating effects were something that couldn't be resisted by sending in kids with sharpened sticks & grannies with dynamite belts which would have been part of the response to an Allied invasion.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,203

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Ay oop


    “NATO intelligence warned about a possible test of a nuclear supertorpedo by Russia - media eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/10/3…

    https://twitter.com/europeanpravda/status/1576861325921488896?s=46&t=2ZXxxv0h6dvCJ23RQMDBsw

    Putin's at the Wunderwaffe stage. You may not have noticed, but the vast majority of Russia's stronkiest of stronk weapons - the T14 Armata, the Sukhoi Su-57 etc - have not been seen in Ukraine, despite them being Russia's wonder weapons.

    You may ask yourself why, and the answers are obvious despite their having been around for a fair few years:

    They don't work very well.

    Russia's test of a nuclear-powered missile a few years back did not go swimmingly:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa_radiation_accident

    Is the Manhattan Project the only time a 'wonder weapon' has actually unequivocally ended a war?
    When you look at the fire raids on Tokyo in March 1945 which devastated more city and killed as many people as the 2 atom bombs it isn't clear that the Manhattan project "unequivocally ended a war". The Soviet invasion of Manchuria and American bombardment alongside the submarine war meant that Japan was conventionally defeated first. Maybe another couple of months longer, but done.
    I am far from convinced that was the case. Many in Japan's leadership thought they could fight on - which is why they did not admit defeat even after one nuclear blast. They were also keeping a large amount of material over for the invasion of the home islands. And what in the previous ten years of war (including China), gives you the impression that the Japanese were going to surrender?

    A sad little factoid:
    "During World War II, 1,506,000 Purple Heart medals were manufactured, many in anticipation of the estimated casualties resulting from the planned Allied invasion of Japan. By the end of the war, even accounting for medals lost, stolen, or wasted, nearly 500,000 remained. To the present date, the total combined American military casualties of the seventy years following the end of World War II—including the Korean and Vietnam Wars—have not exceeded that number. In 2000, there remained 120,000 Purple Heart medals in stock. The existing surplus allowed combat units in Iraq and Afghanistan to keep Purple Hearts on hand for immediate award to soldiers wounded in the field."

    *That* was the extent of casualties the US was expecting - more casualties than have occurred in all their wars since.
    There was an excellent book written by a historian in collaboration with one of the B29s that did the last conventional raid on Japan. Must dig it out…

    Essentially, after the second bomb, the war cabinet met. After everything - fire raids, atom bombs, Russians invading Manchuria, the war cabinet was split 3-3

    Hirohito then intervened, citing the bomb. In particular the fact that the Americans had atomic bombs in production - rather just being able to make one every couple of years as some Japanese scientist had thought.

    This intervention kicked off a coup attempt which foundered when the last conventional B29!raid was spotted. In the Tokyo blackout (because it was thought to be another atomic bomb raid heading for Tokyo this time) the rebels couldn’t find and destroy the recording of surrender announcement.

    The Japanese peace terms that some were proposing were… interesting. One they proposed to the Soviets that they surrender, keep much of their conquests and join with the Soviets in another war with America, later. This was being read by the American cryptologists…..

  • eekeek Posts: 21,819
    TOPPING said:

    Just backed Rishi for next PM and next Cons leader.

    Have heard rumblings that Liz is not long for this world of PMness.

    I note that on Wikipedia the only 2 people with shorter reigns as PM are listed as disputed* on the basis that they probably never were PM

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_length_of_tenure

    I suspect she is likely to last less time than George Canning (she has to manage another 3 months to get to that date),
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,864
    Seems I’m not the only one who is “uncalm”


This discussion has been closed.