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West Lancs looks like a LAB hold on small turnout – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    HYUFD said:

    Justin Trudeau was aggressively heckled by an anti lockdown protestor while leaving his London hotel after the funeral

    https://twitter.com/TrueNorthCentre/status/1572217218934644737?s=20&t=J4fgK4Tn5r7tL_tEFVx4jw

    Good to see that freedom of speech is still alive and well!

    As opposed to the Free Speech Union, who have just had their payment service cancelled with no warning by PayPal.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    DeSantis slams Martha's Vineyard migrant lawsuit as 'political theater'
    https://mobile.twitter.com/freedlander/status/1572404827254292483

    So... what's the term for illegally spending $10,000 a head flying asylum seekers from Texas to Florida to Massachusetts ?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Have we reached the point where Putin can no longer impose his will? I find it remarkable how little attention our MSM are giving to this. It looks very like Putin wanted a general mobilisation and the others in the leadership said no.
  • coming back to the topic, looking at the West Lancs numbers, a serious collapse in Tory vote will cause a lot of unease among the `Red Wall' Tory MPs.... I suspect Labour will push for an early vote and highlight the tax cuts for higher earners which I suspect will resonate... LDs will be happy to keep their deposit and grab some of the blue vote.
  • Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Zara Sultana MP

    My train to Leeds for tonight's Enough is Enough rally has been stopped just outside London for the last 3 hours. I'm sorry not to be there, Leeds! 😭

    Just another reminder that we need to bring rail into public ownership and make it fit for the future! 🚄

    LNER
    Replying to @zarahsultana and @eiecampaign
    I am sorry for the delay, Zarah. This was due to damage to the overhead electric wires meaning services could not move around Stevenage, but services are now on the move. On your other point, LNER is owned by the DfT after the franchise was handed back in 2018. ^Cameron



    https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1572313997931585538

    Personally, I salute Labour for not discriminating on the basis of race, sex, or intelligence.
    I wouldn't put money on Labour holding Coventry South at the next election.
    I have banged on and on about thick as mince Corbynites such as Sultana. "why are you singling out this woman of colour" sometimes is the attack on Twitter.

    It's not because she's a woman.
    Its not because she is British Asian.
    Its because she is a fucking moron. An ideologue zealot one at that.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Indefensible.

    "Truss admits her tax cuts will disproportionately benefit the rich"

    https://news.sky.com/story/liz-truss-prepared-to-be-unpopular-with-tax-policy-to-boost-economic-growth-12702039

    Tax cuts disproportionately benefit tax payers. What a shock.

    Why not just increase taxes to 100% if that's your point of view, as anything less than that "disproportionately benefits" the rich.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,965
    edited September 2022
    .
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Justin Trudeau was aggressively heckled by an anti lockdown protestor while leaving his London hotel after the funeral

    https://twitter.com/TrueNorthCentre/status/1572217218934644737?s=20&t=J4fgK4Tn5r7tL_tEFVx4jw

    Good to see that freedom of speech is still alive and well!

    As opposed to the Free Speech Union, who have just had their payment service cancelled with no warning by PayPal.
    Bleeding’ businesses making business decisions. Should be a law against it.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,748
    Everyone assumes the speech was delayed because of domestic reasons.

    But excluding Russia, every world leader or proxy thereof was in London this weekend. It’s likely that time was found to discuss what to do about Putin. I do wonder if such a plan was presented to him last night by Manny Macron, which has delayed whatever it was Putin was going to announce.
  • It seems the Russian military collapse is not slowing down. Reports this morning of Russia abandoning Lyman.

    Russia keep losing in hours territory it took them weeks to grind out via artillery shelling.

    This war is going just one direction now and the "de-escalation" or don't antagonise Putin apologists across the West can't do anything to stop that now.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 993
    edited September 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    THE TIMES: ⁦@trussliz⁩ to cut stamp duty in push for prosperity #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1572337547870900227/photo/1

    Good! Get rid of the bloody thing.
    America led the way on THAT front!
    Ha! -Truss really is a Liberal Democrat sleeper - she is going to introduce Site Value Taxation! Tony Greaves is vindicated!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Zara Sultana MP

    My train to Leeds for tonight's Enough is Enough rally has been stopped just outside London for the last 3 hours. I'm sorry not to be there, Leeds! 😭

    Just another reminder that we need to bring rail into public ownership and make it fit for the future! 🚄

    LNER
    Replying to @zarahsultana and @eiecampaign
    I am sorry for the delay, Zarah. This was due to damage to the overhead electric wires meaning services could not move around Stevenage, but services are now on the move. On your other point, LNER is owned by the DfT after the franchise was handed back in 2018. ^Cameron



    https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1572313997931585538

    Personally, I salute Labour for not discriminating on the basis of race, sex, or intelligence.
    I wouldn't put money on Labour holding Coventry South at the next election.
    I have banged on and on about thick as mince Corbynites such as Sultana. "why are you singling out this woman of colour" sometimes is the attack on Twitter.

    It's not because she's a woman.
    Its not because she is British Asian.
    Its because she is a fucking moron. An ideologue zealot one at that.
    Sounds like Mrs Sussex.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    It seems the Russian military collapse is not slowing down. Reports this morning of Russia abandoning Lyman.

    Russia keep losing in hours territory it took them weeks to grind out via artillery shelling.

    This war is going just one direction now and the "de-escalation" or don't antagonise Putin apologists across the West can't do anything to stop that now.

    Lyman was being surrounded. The only question was whether they left it in an organised manner, or left all their kit again and ran.

    Significant strategic loss for them. Another defensive line has failed.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    It seems the Russian military collapse is not slowing down. Reports this morning of Russia abandoning Lyman.

    Russia keep losing in hours territory it took them weeks to grind out via artillery shelling.

    This war is going just one direction now and the "de-escalation" or don't antagonise Putin apologists across the West can't do anything to stop that now.

    Top trolling, again:
  • It seems the Russian military collapse is not slowing down. Reports this morning of Russia abandoning Lyman.

    Russia keep losing in hours territory it took them weeks to grind out via artillery shelling.

    This war is going just one direction now and the "de-escalation" or don't antagonise Putin apologists across the West can't do anything to stop that now.

    Lyman was being surrounded. The only question was whether they left it in an organised manner, or left all their kit again and ran.

    Significant strategic loss for them. Another defensive line has failed.
    The sheer amount of military hardware that Russia is supplying to Ukraine as they retreat is utterly astounding.

    It's remarkable that no Russian generals had the strategic nous or ability to destroy the hardware and artillery shells etc as they were abandoning them instead of just leaving them uncontrolled for Ukraine to collect.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    stjohn said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Surely this can be resolved very simply: did they film a report there? If so, they were there as journalists. All fine. If not, they can't claim to be there as journalists and may have some explaining to do. Should be simple enough to resolve.

    Except other journalists were allowed into the press gallery, not the queue (as reported)
    Who cares? Presumably it was a piece to camera about the queue (which, scarcely believably, was headline news for six days running). I don’t know the details and care less but why should she lose her job over this? It seems completely mad

    Under no rational response should a job be under threat over this.
    Queue jumping is a terrible crime.
    Queue jumpers should face the most terrible of punishments - dirty looks from those in the queue and muttered asides. That is punishment enough.

    Public disapproval is the problem she faces

    Well she had press accreditation, how on Earth are they supposed to report it if they they have to queue for 12 hours? What a nonsense. If the public really are fuming about this (which I very much doubt) the country has gone stark raving crackers
    I agree it seems nonsense. But the public may well be fuming. Because we have a press that feeds the public's propensity to find and blame a scapegoat. A nation in grief is ripe for venting its anger. The "popular" press do the pointing.
    HW's problem, besides the scapegoat fact, is fact that most of the public likely do NOT consider her a member of the press, that is a journalist, but instead an entertainer and celebrity.

    A "Queue" jumping entertainer and celebrity.
    HW's problem is that the press don't consider her a member of the press.

  • It seems the Russian military collapse is not slowing down. Reports this morning of Russia abandoning Lyman.

    Russia keep losing in hours territory it took them weeks to grind out via artillery shelling.

    This war is going just one direction now and the "de-escalation" or don't antagonise Putin apologists across the West can't do anything to stop that now.

    Owen Jones' videos on this are hilarious, especially with the 'expert' guest he occasionally has on (apparently a professor of 'peace studies'). On one video, neither he nor the guest noticed the video they showed of Ukrainian territorial gains was (ahem) the wrong place, and showing events that has not yet occurred (the Ukrainian relief of Kherson).

    (One minute in at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjuh1KYXnmk )

    I wouldn't quite say he wants Russia to win; but it is funny seeing how desperately he seems to want to fit the current narrative into his world view. Most of all, it's sad that he never seems to mention the human rights he is so keen on us having, but apparently the Ukrainians cannot.
  • It seems the Russian military collapse is not slowing down. Reports this morning of Russia abandoning Lyman.

    Russia keep losing in hours territory it took them weeks to grind out via artillery shelling.

    This war is going just one direction now and the "de-escalation" or don't antagonise Putin apologists across the West can't do anything to stop that now.

    Lyman was being surrounded. The only question was whether they left it in an organised manner, or left all their kit again and ran.

    Significant strategic loss for them. Another defensive line has failed.
    The sheer amount of military hardware that Russia is supplying to Ukraine as they retreat is utterly astounding.

    It's remarkable that no Russian generals had the strategic nous or ability to destroy the hardware and artillery shells etc as they were abandoning them instead of just leaving them uncontrolled for Ukraine to collect.
    One of our ex-military bods could tell us, but wouldn't it be taught to booby-trap any expensive equipment you had to leave, but could not otherwise destroy? Those ammo dumps might make take a lot of the liberators out. But it doesn't appear to be being reported, and the few booby traps we see seem to be more anti-personnel ones.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Zara Sultana MP

    My train to Leeds for tonight's Enough is Enough rally has been stopped just outside London for the last 3 hours. I'm sorry not to be there, Leeds! 😭

    Just another reminder that we need to bring rail into public ownership and make it fit for the future! 🚄

    LNER
    Replying to @zarahsultana and @eiecampaign
    I am sorry for the delay, Zarah. This was due to damage to the overhead electric wires meaning services could not move around Stevenage, but services are now on the move. On your other point, LNER is owned by the DfT after the franchise was handed back in 2018. ^Cameron



    https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1572313997931585538

    Personally, I salute Labour for not discriminating on the basis of race, sex, or intelligence.
    I wouldn't put money on Labour holding Coventry South at the next election.
    I have banged on and on about thick as mince Corbynites such as Sultana. "why are you singling out this woman of colour" sometimes is the attack on Twitter.

    It's not because she's a woman.
    Its not because she is British Asian.
    Its because she is a fucking moron. An ideologue zealot one at that.
    Sounds like Mrs Sussex.
    An idle thought... When did the phrase "Silly Sussex" come into being, and why?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    It seems the Russian military collapse is not slowing down. Reports this morning of Russia abandoning Lyman.

    Russia keep losing in hours territory it took them weeks to grind out via artillery shelling.

    This war is going just one direction now and the "de-escalation" or don't antagonise Putin apologists across the West can't do anything to stop that now.

    Lyman was being surrounded. The only question was whether they left it in an organised manner, or left all their kit again and ran.

    Significant strategic loss for them. Another defensive line has failed.
    The sheer amount of military hardware that Russia is supplying to Ukraine as they retreat is utterly astounding.

    It's remarkable that no Russian generals had the strategic nous or ability to destroy the hardware and artillery shells etc as they were abandoning them instead of just leaving them uncontrolled for Ukraine to collect.
    One of our ex-military bods could tell us, but wouldn't it be taught to booby-trap any expensive equipment you had to leave, but could not otherwise destroy? Those ammo dumps might make take a lot of the liberators out. But it doesn't appear to be being reported, and the few booby traps we see seem to be more anti-personnel ones.
    Oryx figures, which are likely to be low and someway behind the situation on the ground, reckon that a third of the Russian tanks lost in the war have been captured by the Ukranians. Extrapolating that figure to the higher Ukranian number for Russian tank losses, suggests that the Russians have given the Ukranians around 700 tanks, most of which will be serviceable or close to serviceable. Thanks for the tanks, Russia!
  • Good morning, everyone.

    F1: ridiculous 24 race calendar with three races in the US announced: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.f1-announces-24-race-calendar-for-2023.7oNRaq4kZ2bwTAmL7r6dqg.html
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    It seems the Russian military collapse is not slowing down. Reports this morning of Russia abandoning Lyman.

    Russia keep losing in hours territory it took them weeks to grind out via artillery shelling.

    This war is going just one direction now and the "de-escalation" or don't antagonise Putin apologists across the West can't do anything to stop that now.

    Lyman was being surrounded. The only question was whether they left it in an organised manner, or left all their kit again and ran.

    Significant strategic loss for them. Another defensive line has failed.
    The sheer amount of military hardware that Russia is supplying to Ukraine as they retreat is utterly astounding.

    It's remarkable that no Russian generals had the strategic nous or ability to destroy the hardware and artillery shells etc as they were abandoning them instead of just leaving them uncontrolled for Ukraine to collect.
    The Hundred Days, the Ukrainian remix.

    For those who don’t know - after the German Michael offensive failed in 1918, the Allies pushed forward, the German lines collapsed, and they began to push forward at increasing speed.

    Only the end of the war prevented them from entering Germany.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Zara Sultana MP

    My train to Leeds for tonight's Enough is Enough rally has been stopped just outside London for the last 3 hours. I'm sorry not to be there, Leeds! 😭

    Just another reminder that we need to bring rail into public ownership and make it fit for the future! 🚄

    LNER
    Replying to @zarahsultana and @eiecampaign
    I am sorry for the delay, Zarah. This was due to damage to the overhead electric wires meaning services could not move around Stevenage, but services are now on the move. On your other point, LNER is owned by the DfT after the franchise was handed back in 2018. ^Cameron



    https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1572313997931585538

    Personally, I salute Labour for not discriminating on the basis of race, sex, or intelligence.
    I wouldn't put money on Labour holding Coventry South at the next election.
    I have banged on and on about thick as mince Corbynites such as Sultana. "why are you singling out this woman of colour" sometimes is the attack on Twitter.

    It's not because she's a woman.
    Its not because she is British Asian.
    Its because she is a fucking moron. An ideologue zealot one at that.
    Sounds like Mrs Sussex.
    Really? Haven't seen any evidence of her moronity. They don't like her because she is a black American woman with opinions and a mouth. British princesses are supposed to come straight out of Harry Enfield's WOMEN KNOW YOUR LIMITS sketch, and she doesn't.
    As with Ms Sultana:

    Nothing to do with race
    Nothing to do with gender
    Nothing to do with nationality

    Everything to do with the big mouth.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Sandpit said:

    It seems the Russian military collapse is not slowing down. Reports this morning of Russia abandoning Lyman.

    Russia keep losing in hours territory it took them weeks to grind out via artillery shelling.

    This war is going just one direction now and the "de-escalation" or don't antagonise Putin apologists across the West can't do anything to stop that now.

    Lyman was being surrounded. The only question was whether they left it in an organised manner, or left all their kit again and ran.

    Significant strategic loss for them. Another defensive line has failed.
    The sheer amount of military hardware that Russia is supplying to Ukraine as they retreat is utterly astounding.

    It's remarkable that no Russian generals had the strategic nous or ability to destroy the hardware and artillery shells etc as they were abandoning them instead of just leaving them uncontrolled for Ukraine to collect.
    One of our ex-military bods could tell us, but wouldn't it be taught to booby-trap any expensive equipment you had to leave, but could not otherwise destroy? Those ammo dumps might make take a lot of the liberators out. But it doesn't appear to be being reported, and the few booby traps we see seem to be more anti-personnel ones.
    Oryx figures, which are likely to be low and someway behind the situation on the ground, reckon that a third of the Russian tanks lost in the war have been captured by the Ukranians. Extrapolating that figure to the higher Ukranian number for Russian tank losses, suggests that the Russians have given the Ukranians around 700 tanks, most of which will be serviceable or close to serviceable. Thanks for the tanks, Russia!
    https://tanks-alot.co.uk/ Russia!

    And he’s probably in the market for some low mileage examples.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited September 2022

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Zara Sultana MP

    My train to Leeds for tonight's Enough is Enough rally has been stopped just outside London for the last 3 hours. I'm sorry not to be there, Leeds! 😭

    Just another reminder that we need to bring rail into public ownership and make it fit for the future! 🚄

    LNER
    Replying to @zarahsultana and @eiecampaign
    I am sorry for the delay, Zarah. This was due to damage to the overhead electric wires meaning services could not move around Stevenage, but services are now on the move. On your other point, LNER is owned by the DfT after the franchise was handed back in 2018. ^Cameron



    https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1572313997931585538

    Personally, I salute Labour for not discriminating on the basis of race, sex, or intelligence.
    I wouldn't put money on Labour holding Coventry South at the next election.
    I have banged on and on about thick as mince Corbynites such as Sultana. "why are you singling out this woman of colour" sometimes is the attack on Twitter.

    It's not because she's a woman.
    Its not because she is British Asian.
    Its because she is a fucking moron. An ideologue zealot one at that.
    Sounds like Mrs Sussex.
    Really? Haven't seen any evidence of her moronity. They don't like her because she is a black American woman with opinions and a mouth. British princesses are supposed to come straight out of Harry Enfield's WOMEN KNOW YOUR LIMITS sketch, and she doesn't.
    She and Harry are going the wrong way to achieve whatever their aims are. Slagging off the family to make money is an own goal of epic proportions. Its not about colour it's about behaviour and both of them have behaved disgracefully. No wonder she is not liked by so many people.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Putin's set speeches have never played well in the West. The pre-invasion one put the wind up the West sufficiently to cause Sweden and Finland to join NATO, not the effect Vlad wanted. OK, they may be aimed at the domestic market, but perhaps they have an eye on world opinion too, despite Labrov's denial.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    CD13 said:

    Putin's set speeches have never played well in the West. The pre-invasion one put the wind up the West sufficiently to cause Sweden and Finland to join NATO, not the effect Vlad wanted. OK, they may be aimed at the domestic market, but perhaps they have an eye on world opinion too, despite Labrov's denial.

    The Moscow Stock Exchange fell 9% yesterday in anticipation of a speech aimed at the domestic market.....

    Add that loss to the cost of the war.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Partial mobilisation.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Putin on his feet now. Looks like just the reservists being called up at this stage.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    One of our ex-military bods could tell us, but wouldn't it be taught to booby-trap any expensive equipment you had to leave, but could not otherwise destroy? Those ammo dumps might make take a lot of the liberators out. But it doesn't appear to be being reported, and the few booby traps we see seem to be more anti-personnel ones.

    Really expensive or sensitive stuff, yes. In 42 Commando we got trained in how to disable our helicopters by damaging the rotor head with a small amount of explosives. (Can't fit a new one without the OEM's jig.). The alternative method for damaging a rotor head was just to let me repeatedly over-torque it in hot conditions. We were also supposed to remove some of the comms gear and take it with us.

    MBTs, AFVs, etc. - I doubt they bother. They are probably expecting to get them back at some point. Apparently there a BTR-4 which has changed hands back and forth three times now.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Harry's not come well out of this. The polite term is the American one, pussy-whipped. The less polite one is old English which I won't mention,

    Embracing a California life-style hadn't helped. Yes, Royalty has a gilded life-style but it's laid-out for them. It's not all gain.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    It seems the Russian military collapse is not slowing down. Reports this morning of Russia abandoning Lyman.

    Russia keep losing in hours territory it took them weeks to grind out via artillery shelling.

    This war is going just one direction now and the "de-escalation" or don't antagonise Putin apologists across the West can't do anything to stop that now.

    Lyman was being surrounded. The only question was whether they left it in an organised manner, or left all their kit again and ran.

    Significant strategic loss for them. Another defensive line has failed.
    The sheer amount of military hardware that Russia is supplying to Ukraine as they retreat is utterly astounding.

    It's remarkable that no Russian generals had the strategic nous or ability to destroy the hardware and artillery shells etc as they were abandoning them instead of just leaving them uncontrolled for Ukraine to collect.
    One of the great mysteries. Not just tanks and APCs and artillery either. State of the art command centres and jamming kit - stuff that no doubt will be on a railway to Poland then on to the US for examination.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    "Putin also said that people living in areas of Ukraine under Russian control do not want to be "under the yoke of neo-Nazis", Reuters reports."

    Sending mixed messages, surely.
  • Oh dear, it seems some people are in need of the Meghan Markle helpline this morning:

    https://twitter.com/Minhinnick_A/status/1570027429652996098
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Sandpit said:

    Putin on his feet now. Looks like just the reservists being called up at this stage.

    How big is the reserve - does it include those who have done national service?
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Sandpit said:

    Putin on his feet now. Looks like just the reservists being called up at this stage.

    How big is the reserve - does it include those who have done national service?
    What military hardware is the reserve going to be supplied with and how are the logistics going to be handled?

    Throwing more bodies into the meat grinder won't change the course of the war.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Do we think this speech by Putin was really the one taped yesterday?

    He doesn't look like a man overjoyed at announcing a "partial mobilisation".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Chris said:

    Putin speaks.

    "Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise...."

    They can’t make a decent chair…..
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    You’ve got to feel sorry for those reservists. Absolute cannon fodder. If the professionals couldn’t manage it and morale is already at an all time low, a bunch of reservists isn’t going to improve things.

    He’s really stuck now. Failed on all fronts. Russia looks weak as a result and those countries previously in the soviet orbit know this. How does he avoid looking weak? Hope that most Russians don’t pick up on what’s going on?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Chris said:

    "Putin also said that people living in areas of Ukraine under Russian control do not want to be "under the yoke of neo-Nazis", Reuters reports."

    Sending mixed messages, surely.

    "Vote to join Russia. And drop the neo bit...."
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Pro_Rata said:

    Sandpit said:

    Putin on his feet now. Looks like just the reservists being called up at this stage.

    How big is the reserve - does it include those who have done national service?
    What military hardware is the reserve going to be supplied with and how are the logistics going to be handled?

    Throwing more bodies into the meat grinder won't change the course of the war.
    Well, that's the question.

    Wikipedia states 2 million reserves btw.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited September 2022
    Pro_Rata said:

    Sandpit said:

    Putin on his feet now. Looks like just the reservists being called up at this stage.

    How big is the reserve - does it include those who have done national service?
    They have roughly a million armed forces, and 2m reserves. For reference, Ukraine has somewhere around 8-10m men aged 18-50.

    Yes, the reserves are largely ex-conscripts, who will have had basic training and can probably handle an AK-47 without pointing it at the man behind. Just as well they can use a gun, because that’s going to be pretty much all they have to defend themselves - the stock of heavy weapons is severely depleted. Presumably they’ll now start commandeering factories, but they’ll be producing only what they can build with little in the way of electronics.

    The West needs to also now step up, and start producing everything we can to send to the Ukranians over the winter.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Pro_Rata said:

    Sandpit said:

    Putin on his feet now. Looks like just the reservists being called up at this stage.

    How big is the reserve - does it include those who have done national service?
    In theory, all the 18+ males in Russia. Not sure what they would be armed with.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Dura_Ace said:



    One of our ex-military bods could tell us, but wouldn't it be taught to booby-trap any expensive equipment you had to leave, but could not otherwise destroy? Those ammo dumps might make take a lot of the liberators out. But it doesn't appear to be being reported, and the few booby traps we see seem to be more anti-personnel ones.

    Really expensive or sensitive stuff, yes. In 42 Commando we got trained in how to disable our helicopters by damaging the rotor head with a small amount of explosives. (Can't fit a new one without the OEM's jig.). The alternative method for damaging a rotor head was just to let me repeatedly over-torque it in hot conditions. We were also supposed to remove some of the comms gear and take it with us.

    MBTs, AFVs, etc. - I doubt they bother. They are probably expecting to get them back at some point. Apparently there a BTR-4 which has changed hands back and forth three times now.
    So giving your enemy enough tanks to start a fair sized army is fine? Even though they know the enemy is using the tanks they capture?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090

    Andy_JS said:

    Indefensible.

    "Truss admits her tax cuts will disproportionately benefit the rich"

    https://news.sky.com/story/liz-truss-prepared-to-be-unpopular-with-tax-policy-to-boost-economic-growth-12702039

    Tax cuts disproportionately benefit tax payers. What a shock.

    Why not just increase taxes to 100% if that's your point of view, as anything less than that "disproportionately benefits" the rich.
    Trickle down economics doesn’t work. Tax cuts for the rich aren’t going to massively increase growth, so they will increase the deficit, which will weaken the pound and lead to further inflation, making everyone poorer. Unless, of course, you slash public services. You think it takes a long time to get a GP appointment now? Wait until we’re further into Truss’s premiership.

    Counter-cyclical taxation policies work if you invest in the country. The Government isn’t doing anything to improve productivity. It’s just inflating house prices with a stamp duty cut and encouraging unsafe financial systems through deregulation.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    edited September 2022
    Putin also accused the West of "nuclear blackmail" against Russia + threatened a nuclear response if Ukraine continues to try to reclaim territories that are set to hold "referenda" and which he considers historically Russia. "It's not a bluff."
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1572472312615825408

    Make of that nonsense what you will.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Zara Sultana MP

    My train to Leeds for tonight's Enough is Enough rally has been stopped just outside London for the last 3 hours. I'm sorry not to be there, Leeds! 😭

    Just another reminder that we need to bring rail into public ownership and make it fit for the future! 🚄

    LNER
    Replying to @zarahsultana and @eiecampaign
    I am sorry for the delay, Zarah. This was due to damage to the overhead electric wires meaning services could not move around Stevenage, but services are now on the move. On your other point, LNER is owned by the DfT after the franchise was handed back in 2018. ^Cameron



    https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1572313997931585538

    Personally, I salute Labour for not discriminating on the basis of race, sex, or intelligence.
    I wouldn't put money on Labour holding Coventry South at the next election.
    I have banged on and on about thick as mince Corbynites such as Sultana. "why are you singling out this woman of colour" sometimes is the attack on Twitter.

    It's not because she's a woman.
    Its not because she is British Asian.
    Its because she is a fucking moron. An ideologue zealot one at that.
    See also Diane ‘Maths Genius’ Abbot.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    Pro_Rata said:

    Sandpit said:

    Putin on his feet now. Looks like just the reservists being called up at this stage.

    How big is the reserve - does it include those who have done national service?
    In theory, all the 18+ males in Russia. Not sure what they would be armed with.
    As in WW2, you pick up the rifle of the guy shot in front of you....
  • Andy_JS said:

    Indefensible.

    "Truss admits her tax cuts will disproportionately benefit the rich"

    https://news.sky.com/story/liz-truss-prepared-to-be-unpopular-with-tax-policy-to-boost-economic-growth-12702039

    Tax cuts disproportionately benefit tax payers. What a shock.

    Why not just increase taxes to 100% if that's your point of view, as anything less than that "disproportionately benefits" the rich.
    Trickle down economics doesn’t work. Tax cuts for the rich aren’t going to massively increase growth, so they will increase the deficit, which will weaken the pound and lead to further inflation, making everyone poorer. Unless, of course, you slash public services. You think it takes a long time to get a GP appointment now? Wait until we’re further into Truss’s premiership.

    Counter-cyclical taxation policies work if you invest in the country. The Government isn’t doing anything to improve productivity. It’s just inflating house prices with a stamp duty cut and encouraging unsafe financial systems through deregulation.

    Truss isn't doing "tax cuts for the rich" or "trickle down economics" though, she's doing tax cuts for tax payers. Trickle down is when you only cut the rates of tax for the highest tax payers, rather than cutting everybody's tax which is what reversing the NI hike does.

    Cutting everyone's tax does work, tax rises don't work, they strangle the economy and don't raise the revenues expected.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Scholz
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Bundeskanzler/status/1572436238971305984
    If we want Putin‘s war to end, then we cannot be indifferent to how it ends.
    This is why we will not accept a peace dictated by Russia – and we will not accept any sham referendums either.
    This is why #Ukraine must be able to defend itself against Russia’s invasion.
  • Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Zara Sultana MP

    My train to Leeds for tonight's Enough is Enough rally has been stopped just outside London for the last 3 hours. I'm sorry not to be there, Leeds! 😭

    Just another reminder that we need to bring rail into public ownership and make it fit for the future! 🚄

    LNER
    Replying to @zarahsultana and @eiecampaign
    I am sorry for the delay, Zarah. This was due to damage to the overhead electric wires meaning services could not move around Stevenage, but services are now on the move. On your other point, LNER is owned by the DfT after the franchise was handed back in 2018. ^Cameron



    https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1572313997931585538

    Personally, I salute Labour for not discriminating on the basis of race, sex, or intelligence.
    I wouldn't put money on Labour holding Coventry South at the next election.
    I have banged on and on about thick as mince Corbynites such as Sultana. "why are you singling out this woman of colour" sometimes is the attack on Twitter.

    It's not because she's a woman.
    Its not because she is British Asian.
    Its because she is a fucking moron. An ideologue zealot one at that.
    See also Diane ‘Maths Genius’ Abbot.
    Dey is ignorant people!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    Pro_Rata said:

    Sandpit said:

    Putin on his feet now. Looks like just the reservists being called up at this stage.

    How big is the reserve - does it include those who have done national service?
    What military hardware is the reserve going to be supplied with and how are the logistics going to be handled?

    Throwing more bodies into the meat grinder won't change the course of the war.
    It might change the course of the subsequent peace though.

    Not necessarily to Russia's advantage.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    Nigelb said:

    Putin also accused the West of "nuclear blackmail" against Russia + threatened a nuclear response if Ukraine continues to try to reclaim territories that are set to hold "referenda" and which he considers historically Russia. "It's not a bluff."
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1572472312615825408

    Make if that nonsense what you will.

    Professionally speaking when somebody tells me that X isn't a bluff then it usually is a bluff.
    Really ? 😊
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    It seems the Russian military collapse is not slowing down. Reports this morning of Russia abandoning Lyman.

    Russia keep losing in hours territory it took them weeks to grind out via artillery shelling.

    This war is going just one direction now and the "de-escalation" or don't antagonise Putin apologists across the West can't do anything to stop that now.

    Lyman was being surrounded. The only question was whether they left it in an organised manner, or left all their kit again and ran.

    Significant strategic loss for them. Another defensive line has failed.
    The sheer amount of military hardware that Russia is supplying to Ukraine as they retreat is utterly astounding.

    It's remarkable that no Russian generals had the strategic nous or ability to destroy the hardware and artillery shells etc as they were abandoning them instead of just leaving them uncontrolled for Ukraine to collect.
    The Hundred Days, the Ukrainian remix.

    For those who don’t know - after the German Michael offensive failed in 1918, the Allies pushed forward, the German lines collapsed, and they began to push forward at increasing speed.

    Only the end of the war prevented them from entering Germany.
    Indeed. The battle of Amiens should be up there with Crecy, Agincourt, Waterloo etc as great British victories. The black day of the German army.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Nigelb said:

    Scholz
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Bundeskanzler/status/1572436238971305984
    If we want Putin‘s war to end, then we cannot be indifferent to how it ends.
    This is why we will not accept a peace dictated by Russia – and we will not accept any sham referendums either.
    This is why #Ukraine must be able to defend itself against Russia’s invasion.

    "Just, er, not using our tanks...."
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Nigelb said:

    Scholz
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Bundeskanzler/status/1572436238971305984
    If we want Putin‘s war to end, then we cannot be indifferent to how it ends.
    This is why we will not accept a peace dictated by Russia – and we will not accept any sham referendums either.
    This is why #Ukraine must be able to defend itself against Russia’s invasion.

    So presumably, Herr Sholz will now be handing over all the weapons he’s blocked from going to Ukraine over the past eight months?
  • Nigelb said:

    Scholz
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Bundeskanzler/status/1572436238971305984
    If we want Putin‘s war to end, then we cannot be indifferent to how it ends.
    This is why we will not accept a peace dictated by Russia – and we will not accept any sham referendums either.
    This is why #Ukraine must be able to defend itself against Russia’s invasion.

    Even Russian apologists are starting to see the writing on the wall now.
  • Nigelb said:

    Putin also accused the West of "nuclear blackmail" against Russia + threatened a nuclear response if Ukraine continues to try to reclaim territories that are set to hold "referenda" and which he considers historically Russia. "It's not a bluff."
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1572472312615825408

    Make if that nonsense what you will.

    Professionally speaking when somebody tells me that X isn't a bluff then it usually is a bluff.
    iirc Russian military doctrine is that tactical nukes can be used to defend sovereign territory of Russia. So if Vlad "makes" Donbas sovereign territory then in theory at least he might not be bluffing.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    Dura_Ace said:



    One of our ex-military bods could tell us, but wouldn't it be taught to booby-trap any expensive equipment you had to leave, but could not otherwise destroy? Those ammo dumps might make take a lot of the liberators out. But it doesn't appear to be being reported, and the few booby traps we see seem to be more anti-personnel ones.

    Really expensive or sensitive stuff, yes. In 42 Commando we got trained in how to disable our helicopters by damaging the rotor head with a small amount of explosives. (Can't fit a new one without the OEM's jig.). The alternative method for damaging a rotor head was just to let me repeatedly over-torque it in hot conditions. We were also supposed to remove some of the comms gear and take it with us.

    MBTs, AFVs, etc. - I doubt they bother. They are probably expecting to get them back at some point. Apparently there a BTR-4 which has changed hands back and forth three times now.
    So giving your enemy enough tanks to start a fair sized army is fine? Even though they know the enemy is using the tanks they capture?
    Of course, those tanks wouldn't be much use without a mass of artillery sh.... Oh, look what else they left us....

    These are the professional fuckwits. Before they call up the reservist fuckwits.
  • Had a nice time in Buxton yesterday, weather was OK, and Northern actually provided 4 carriages each way on the train from Piccadilly. Will check out the Etihad and Old Trafford today, amongst others.
  • MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Slightly odd, but interesting story.

    US blocks Israeli air defense system sale to Germany
    https://thecradle.co/Article/News/15813?s=08

    It's very high level defense against weapons including ballistic missiles.

    I was wondering if they were going to do that, having seen a couple of oblique hints in stories, and I can't understand why - unless a) they that in the future they have concerns that it will be used against them (unlikely?), or b) perhaps they want the business entirely for a US supplier.

    The USA provided most of the funding (billions) over more than a decade for this to be developed in Israel - was that smuggling more military aid in via a JV to avoid politics?

    Alternatively Germany were aiming for an integrated European network, so perhaps the US are chary of other European countries getting to see the tech.

    But what may happen is that Europe will roll it's own solution, sans the Americans.

    IIRC similar happened before with us when the US blocked an order to the Middle East of a Brit system incorporating US tech under their ITAR regulations, then sold a system themselves.

    So now some of our systems have a foundational contract term with the supplier to exclude ITAR-subject components that would give the US that right.

    It will certainly help Europe develop independent capabilities, which is what everyone says they want :smile: .


    The us doesn’t trust the close ties that some members of the German military have with other nations that are less well disposed to us interests
  • It seems the Russian military collapse is not slowing down. Reports this morning of Russia abandoning Lyman.

    Russia keep losing in hours territory it took them weeks to grind out via artillery shelling.

    This war is going just one direction now and the "de-escalation" or don't antagonise Putin apologists across the West can't do anything to stop that now.

    Lyman was being surrounded. The only question was whether they left it in an organised manner, or left all their kit again and ran.

    Significant strategic loss for them. Another defensive line has failed.
    The sheer amount of military hardware that Russia is supplying to Ukraine as they retreat is utterly astounding.

    It's remarkable that no Russian generals had the strategic nous or ability to destroy the hardware and artillery shells etc as they were abandoning them instead of just leaving them uncontrolled for Ukraine to collect.
    The Hundred Days, the Ukrainian remix.

    For those who don’t know - after the German Michael offensive failed in 1918, the Allies pushed forward, the German lines collapsed, and they began to push forward at increasing speed.

    Only the end of the war prevented them from entering Germany.
    Indeed. The battle of Amiens should be up there with Crecy, Agincourt, Waterloo etc as great British victories. The black day of the German army.
    British?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Dura_Ace said:



    One of our ex-military bods could tell us, but wouldn't it be taught to booby-trap any expensive equipment you had to leave, but could not otherwise destroy? Those ammo dumps might make take a lot of the liberators out. But it doesn't appear to be being reported, and the few booby traps we see seem to be more anti-personnel ones.

    Really expensive or sensitive stuff, yes. In 42 Commando we got trained in how to disable our helicopters by damaging the rotor head with a small amount of explosives. (Can't fit a new one without the OEM's jig.). The alternative method for damaging a rotor head was just to let me repeatedly over-torque it in hot conditions. We were also supposed to remove some of the comms gear and take it with us.

    MBTs, AFVs, etc. - I doubt they bother. They are probably expecting to get them back at some point. Apparently there a BTR-4 which has changed hands back and forth three times now.
    So giving your enemy enough tanks to start a fair sized army is fine? Even though they know the enemy is using the tanks they capture?
    Of course, those tanks wouldn't be much use without a mass of artillery sh.... Oh, look what else they left us....

    These are the professional fuckwits. Before they call up the reservist fuckwits.
    Given that they’re hitting up Kim Jong-Un for artillery shells, one might reasonably conclude that the enemy is not exactly flush with them right now.

    Big moment for Xi and Modi though, who made their thoughts clear to Putin at the weekend, and seem to be staying very much out of it. If they stay out, Russia will lose, if they join in, we have WWIII.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Nigelb said:

    Putin also accused the West of "nuclear blackmail" against Russia + threatened a nuclear response if Ukraine continues to try to reclaim territories that are set to hold "referenda" and which he considers historically Russia. "It's not a bluff."
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1572472312615825408

    Make if that nonsense what you will.

    Professionally speaking when somebody tells me that X isn't a bluff then it usually is a bluff.
    Parentally speaking, when I tell my children I'm not bluffing I always make sure I carry out the threat if they test me.

    Mind you, I've never threatened to nuke them...
  • MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    THE TIMES: ⁦@trussliz⁩ to cut stamp duty in push for prosperity #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1572337547870900227/photo/1

    Receipts from SDLT.

    Stamp duty was fine when it was a flat low rate. The problem was pushing it up to 12% at the top end was a Brown led grab that reduced labour mobility and resulted in people extending properties rather than moving.

    Fundamentally income tax should be the tool for progressive taxation / wealth redistribution and most other taxes should be flat and simple to minimise any knock on effects. Trying to make an individual tax do too many things always screws things up
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Interesting interview from earlier this year (in French, but translation available) with a Ukrainian refugee who is a Russian speaker from the Donbas.

    https://www.contreligne.eu/2022/09/effacer-la-russie-entretien-avec-volodymyr-rafeyenko/
    ...At the beginning of this century, I positioned myself as a Ukrainian writer, but who, of course, also works in the Russian cultural and linguistic field. It never came to my mind to write in Ukrainian. After 2014, I learned Ukrainian and wrote a novel in Ukrainian to show Russians and everyone that for a Ukrainian, even Russian-speaking, there was no problem learning Ukrainian, speaking it and even writing fiction in Ukrainian. And I said several times in my interviews that I will now write my books in two languages - a novel in Russian and a novel in Ukrainian. I wanted to make it clear to everyone: it has never been necessary to protect the Russian-speaking population, this problem never existed and does not exist in Ukraine. ...

    I simply won't be able to write in Russian anymore. The very idea that someone might consider me a Russian writer because I write in Russian is unbearable to me....

  • Andy_JS said:

    Indefensible.

    "Truss admits her tax cuts will disproportionately benefit the rich"

    https://news.sky.com/story/liz-truss-prepared-to-be-unpopular-with-tax-policy-to-boost-economic-growth-12702039

    Don’t forget the tax increases she is unwinding disproportionately impacted the rich too.

    Time for someone to post that old saw about the 10 friends going drinking
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Putin also accused the West of "nuclear blackmail" against Russia + threatened a nuclear response if Ukraine continues to try to reclaim territories that are set to hold "referenda" and which he considers historically Russia. "It's not a bluff."
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1572472312615825408

    Make if that nonsense what you will.

    Professionally speaking when somebody tells me that X isn't a bluff then it usually is a bluff.
    Parentally speaking, when I tell my children I'm not bluffing I always make sure I carry out the threat if they test me.

    Mind you, I've never threatened to nuke them...
    Keeping that in reserve ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Russian maths.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1572476671277826051
    Shoigu claims just 5,900+ Russian troops killed. Real number of KIA is certainly much, much higher. Meanwhile he claims 100,000 Ukrainian casualties, including 60,000 KIA — “half the Ukrainian army.”

    It does make it hard to take their threats seriously when every word they say is an obvious lie.
  • Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Putin also accused the West of "nuclear blackmail" against Russia + threatened a nuclear response if Ukraine continues to try to reclaim territories that are set to hold "referenda" and which he considers historically Russia. "It's not a bluff."
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1572472312615825408

    Make if that nonsense what you will.

    Professionally speaking when somebody tells me that X isn't a bluff then it usually is a bluff.
    Parentally speaking, when I tell my children I'm not bluffing I always make sure I carry out the threat if they test me.

    Mind you, I've never threatened to nuke them...
    Its cliché but calmly and firmly counting to three always works.
  • Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Justin Trudeau was aggressively heckled by an anti lockdown protestor while leaving his London hotel after the funeral

    https://twitter.com/TrueNorthCentre/status/1572217218934644737?s=20&t=J4fgK4Tn5r7tL_tEFVx4jw

    Good to see that freedom of speech is still alive and well!

    As opposed to the Free Speech Union, who have just had their payment service cancelled with no warning by PayPal.
    Did they give a reason?

    We will hear the usual chuntering from the likes of @Foxy and @SouthamObserver about how there is no obligation for a private company to provide services… I think there should be a universal service obligation on payment services (not borrowing)… financial services are and should be a utility

  • Nigelb said:

    DeSantis slams Martha's Vineyard migrant lawsuit as 'political theater'
    https://mobile.twitter.com/freedlander/status/1572404827254292483

    So... what's the term for illegally spending $10,000 a head flying asylum seekers from Texas to Florida to Massachusetts ?

    Profligate?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Hmmmm.

    So - you call up 300,000 men to an operation you claimed was going well but hasn’t finished after eight months, and at a time when people are unhappy with you.

    You have a severely weakened officer corps due to the high attrition rate.

    You give these people weapons, if you have them.

    And tell them to point their weapons at the Ukrainians.

    It’s an old strategy. It worked really well for, say, Nicholas II.

    Ah.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Trussonomics in a single tweet

    Pound slumps to fresh 37-year low as cost of servicing government debt hits August record
    http://news.sky.com/story/pound-slumps-to-fresh-37-year-low-as-cost-of-servicing-government-debt-hits-august-record-12702313
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting interview from earlier this year (in French, but translation available) with a Ukrainian refugee who is a Russian speaker from the Donbas.

    https://www.contreligne.eu/2022/09/effacer-la-russie-entretien-avec-volodymyr-rafeyenko/
    ...At the beginning of this century, I positioned myself as a Ukrainian writer, but who, of course, also works in the Russian cultural and linguistic field. It never came to my mind to write in Ukrainian. After 2014, I learned Ukrainian and wrote a novel in Ukrainian to show Russians and everyone that for a Ukrainian, even Russian-speaking, there was no problem learning Ukrainian, speaking it and even writing fiction in Ukrainian. And I said several times in my interviews that I will now write my books in two languages - a novel in Russian and a novel in Ukrainian. I wanted to make it clear to everyone: it has never been necessary to protect the Russian-speaking population, this problem never existed and does not exist in Ukraine. ...

    I simply won't be able to write in Russian anymore. The very idea that someone might consider me a Russian writer because I write in Russian is unbearable to me....

    On Monday I met a Ukrainian lady who is being hosted with some friends of ours. She is a Russian speaker from near Kharkiv. She has been forced out of her life and home. Her family is spread all over Europe. A Russian speaker but one who now detests the Russians.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Incidentally, the irony of saying that people in Ukraine do not wish to live under Neo-Nazis and he would support them in their wish was just extraordinary.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Kwasi Kwarteng for me is an uncomfortable reminder that you can win University Challenge and still be wrong about everything
    https://twitter.com/hannahrosewoods/status/1572348303781818368
  • Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Zara Sultana MP

    My train to Leeds for tonight's Enough is Enough rally has been stopped just outside London for the last 3 hours. I'm sorry not to be there, Leeds! 😭

    Just another reminder that we need to bring rail into public ownership and make it fit for the future! 🚄

    LNER
    Replying to @zarahsultana and @eiecampaign
    I am sorry for the delay, Zarah. This was due to damage to the overhead electric wires meaning services could not move around Stevenage, but services are now on the move. On your other point, LNER is owned by the DfT after the franchise was handed back in 2018. ^Cameron



    https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1572313997931585538

    Personally, I salute Labour for not discriminating on the basis of race, sex, or intelligence.
    I wouldn't put money on Labour holding Coventry South at the next election.
    I have banged on and on about thick as mince Corbynites such as Sultana. "why are you singling out this woman of colour" sometimes is the attack on Twitter.

    It's not because she's a woman.
    Its not because she is British Asian.
    Its because she is a fucking moron. An ideologue zealot one at that.
    Sounds like Mrs Sussex.
    Really? Haven't seen any evidence of her moronity. They don't like her because she is a black American woman with opinions and a mouth. British princesses are supposed to come straight out of Harry Enfield's WOMEN KNOW YOUR LIMITS sketch, and she doesn't.
    Actually it’s because she is a lying manipulative narcissist who’s just out for what she can take
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Zara Sultana MP

    My train to Leeds for tonight's Enough is Enough rally has been stopped just outside London for the last 3 hours. I'm sorry not to be there, Leeds! 😭

    Just another reminder that we need to bring rail into public ownership and make it fit for the future! 🚄

    LNER
    Replying to @zarahsultana and @eiecampaign
    I am sorry for the delay, Zarah. This was due to damage to the overhead electric wires meaning services could not move around Stevenage, but services are now on the move. On your other point, LNER is owned by the DfT after the franchise was handed back in 2018. ^Cameron



    https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1572313997931585538

    Personally, I salute Labour for not discriminating on the basis of race, sex, or intelligence.
    I wouldn't put money on Labour holding Coventry South at the next election.
    I have banged on and on about thick as mince Corbynites such as Sultana. "why are you singling out this woman of colour" sometimes is the attack on Twitter.

    It's not because she's a woman.
    Its not because she is British Asian.
    Its because she is a fucking moron. An ideologue zealot one at that.
    Sounds like Mrs Sussex.
    Really? Haven't seen any evidence of her moronity. They don't like her because she is a black American woman with opinions and a mouth. British princesses are supposed to come straight out of Harry Enfield's WOMEN KNOW YOUR LIMITS sketch, and she doesn't.
    Actually it’s because she is a lying manipulative narcissist who’s just out for what she can take
    I think this one’s ‘undecided.’
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Putin also accused the West of "nuclear blackmail" against Russia + threatened a nuclear response if Ukraine continues to try to reclaim territories that are set to hold "referenda" and which he considers historically Russia. "It's not a bluff."
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1572472312615825408

    Make if that nonsense what you will.

    Professionally speaking when somebody tells me that X isn't a bluff then it usually is a bluff.
    Parentally speaking, when I tell my children I'm not bluffing I always make sure I carry out the threat if they test me.

    Mind you, I've never threatened to nuke them...
    Although, my children frequently bluff against me. And maybe Russia is playing the part of the child rather than the parent here
  • Shock as an economically illiterate government tries to solve a supply issue by incentivising demand

    I am literally begging, just build more fucking houses
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    Andy_JS said:

    Indefensible.

    "Truss admits her tax cuts will disproportionately benefit the rich"

    https://news.sky.com/story/liz-truss-prepared-to-be-unpopular-with-tax-policy-to-boost-economic-growth-12702039

    Don’t forget the tax increases she is unwinding disproportionately impacted the rich too.

    Time for someone to post that old saw about the 10 friends going drinking
    I hope somebody does as I don't think I've heard it and am intrigued now.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090

    Andy_JS said:

    Indefensible.

    "Truss admits her tax cuts will disproportionately benefit the rich"

    https://news.sky.com/story/liz-truss-prepared-to-be-unpopular-with-tax-policy-to-boost-economic-growth-12702039

    Tax cuts disproportionately benefit tax payers. What a shock.

    Why not just increase taxes to 100% if that's your point of view, as anything less than that "disproportionately benefits" the rich.
    Trickle down economics doesn’t work. Tax cuts for the rich aren’t going to massively increase growth, so they will increase the deficit, which will weaken the pound and lead to further inflation, making everyone poorer. Unless, of course, you slash public services. You think it takes a long time to get a GP appointment now? Wait until we’re further into Truss’s premiership.

    Counter-cyclical taxation policies work if you invest in the country. The Government isn’t doing anything to improve productivity. It’s just inflating house prices with a stamp duty cut and encouraging unsafe financial systems through deregulation.

    Truss isn't doing "tax cuts for the rich" or "trickle down economics" though, she's doing tax cuts for tax payers. Trickle down is when you only cut the rates of tax for the highest tax payers, rather than cutting everybody's tax which is what reversing the NI hike does.

    Cutting everyone's tax does work, tax rises don't work, they strangle the economy and don't raise the revenues expected.
    One can, of course, cut or raise taxes in a broad variety of ways. There are taxes that nearly everybody pays, like VAT, and there are taxes that are paid by a smaller proportion of the population, like inheritance tax or tobacco duty. Is there a particular group that benefit the most from Truss’s plans? Yes. Those on the highest incomes.

    What of her other plans? How is a stamp duty cut benefitting everybody, when so many can’t even get on the property ladder? How is increasing bankers’ bonuses benefitting everybody?

    Some will get the benefits, but we all pay the price of a massively increased deficit.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Zara Sultana MP

    My train to Leeds for tonight's Enough is Enough rally has been stopped just outside London for the last 3 hours. I'm sorry not to be there, Leeds! 😭

    Just another reminder that we need to bring rail into public ownership and make it fit for the future! 🚄

    LNER
    Replying to @zarahsultana and @eiecampaign
    I am sorry for the delay, Zarah. This was due to damage to the overhead electric wires meaning services could not move around Stevenage, but services are now on the move. On your other point, LNER is owned by the DfT after the franchise was handed back in 2018. ^Cameron



    https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1572313997931585538

    Personally, I salute Labour for not discriminating on the basis of race, sex, or intelligence.
    I wouldn't put money on Labour holding Coventry South at the next election.
    I have banged on and on about thick as mince Corbynites such as Sultana. "why are you singling out this woman of colour" sometimes is the attack on Twitter.

    It's not because she's a woman.
    Its not because she is British Asian.
    Its because she is a fucking moron. An ideologue zealot one at that.
    Sounds like Mrs Sussex.
    Really? Haven't seen any evidence of her moronity. They don't like her because she is a black American woman with opinions and a mouth. British princesses are supposed to come straight out of Harry Enfield's WOMEN KNOW YOUR LIMITS sketch, and she doesn't.
    Actually it’s because she is a lying manipulative narcissist who’s just out for what she can take
    Thankyou Piers!
  • Andy_JS said:

    Indefensible.

    "Truss admits her tax cuts will disproportionately benefit the rich"

    https://news.sky.com/story/liz-truss-prepared-to-be-unpopular-with-tax-policy-to-boost-economic-growth-12702039

    Tax cuts disproportionately benefit tax payers. What a shock.

    Why not just increase taxes to 100% if that's your point of view, as anything less than that "disproportionately benefits" the rich.
    Trickle down economics doesn’t work. Tax cuts for the rich aren’t going to massively increase growth, so they will increase the deficit, which will weaken the pound and lead to further inflation, making everyone poorer. Unless, of course, you slash public services. You think it takes a long time to get a GP appointment now? Wait until we’re further into Truss’s premiership.

    Counter-cyclical taxation policies work if you invest in the country. The Government isn’t doing anything to improve productivity. It’s just inflating house prices with a stamp duty cut and encouraging unsafe financial systems through deregulation.

    Truss isn't doing "tax cuts for the rich" or "trickle down economics" though, she's doing tax cuts for tax payers. Trickle down is when you only cut the rates of tax for the highest tax payers, rather than cutting everybody's tax which is what reversing the NI hike does.

    Cutting everyone's tax does work, tax rises don't work, they strangle the economy and don't raise the revenues expected.
    One can, of course, cut or raise taxes in a broad variety of ways. There are taxes that nearly everybody pays, like VAT, and there are taxes that are paid by a smaller proportion of the population, like inheritance tax or tobacco duty. Is there a particular group that benefit the most from Truss’s plans? Yes. Those on the highest incomes.

    What of her other plans? How is a stamp duty cut benefitting everybody, when so many can’t even get on the property ladder? How is increasing bankers’ bonuses benefitting everybody?

    Some will get the benefits, but we all pay the price of a massively increased deficit.
    *elderly homeowners get the benefits, but young renters pay the price of a massively increased deficit
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    In a different fiscal situation, I don't mind the choice of Truss' tax cuts:

    - NI is a tax on jobs and should never have been increased. Income tax was the way to do that if it needed to be done.
    - Stamp duty is a tax on mobility and is at a level that definitely impacts behaviour negatively. Replacing with property taxes that are more incremental would be better.
    - I have less sympathy with cancelling the corporation tax rise, as evidence has shown tax deductions for investments made is a better incentive than cutting the headline rate.

    The trouble is we have a huge deficit, a massive rise in spending, increasing cost of debt and a plummeting pound.

    This is fantasy economics that is going to end in disaster.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    OK, who had "Sterling crisis in their first week" on their Bingo card?


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,661
    ydoethur said:

    Hmmmm.

    So - you call up 300,000 men to an operation you claimed was going well but hasn’t finished after eight months, and at a time when people are unhappy with you.

    You have a severely weakened officer corps due to the high attrition rate.

    You give these people weapons, if you have them.

    And tell them to point their weapons at the Ukrainians.

    It’s an old strategy. It worked really well for, say, Nicholas II.

    Ah.

    And call them up to the capital city military depots...

  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited September 2022

    Shock as an economically illiterate government tries to solve a supply issue by incentivising demand

    I am literally begging, just build more fucking houses

    You need to tell the labour party to roll out my recommended strategy of choosing about 10 safe conservative seats on the periphery of London, areas with lots of undeveloped land and of limited landscape value, and pledge to pass an Act of Parliament in the first 100 days of being elected that grants outline planning permission for 2 million new houses in these areas.

    No one on PB has ever been able to identify a downside to this when I suggest it. It should be labour party policy.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078

    It seems the Russian military collapse is not slowing down. Reports this morning of Russia abandoning Lyman.

    Russia keep losing in hours territory it took them weeks to grind out via artillery shelling.

    This war is going just one direction now and the "de-escalation" or don't antagonise Putin apologists across the West can't do anything to stop that now.

    Lyman was being surrounded. The only question was whether they left it in an organised manner, or left all their kit again and ran.

    Significant strategic loss for them. Another defensive line has failed.
    The sheer amount of military hardware that Russia is supplying to Ukraine as they retreat is utterly astounding.

    It's remarkable that no Russian generals had the strategic nous or ability to destroy the hardware and artillery shells etc as they were abandoning them instead of just leaving them uncontrolled for Ukraine to collect.
    The Hundred Days, the Ukrainian remix.

    For those who don’t know - after the German Michael offensive failed in 1918, the Allies pushed forward, the German lines collapsed, and they began to push forward at increasing speed.

    Only the end of the war prevented them from entering Germany.
    Indeed. The battle of Amiens should be up there with Crecy, Agincourt, Waterloo etc as great British victories. The black day of the German army.
    British?
    Well Waterloo was very much an allied army:
    UK/Hanover: 31,000 (25,000 British and 6,000 King's German Legion)
    Hanover: 11,000
    Netherlands: 17,000
    Brunswick: 6,000
    Nassau: 3,000[5]
    Plus Blücher's army of 50,000 Prussians

    Let us hope that Putin faces his own Waterloo pretty soon.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090
    Ratters said:

    In a different fiscal situation, I don't mind the choice of Truss' tax cuts:

    - NI is a tax on jobs and should never have been increased. Income tax was the way to do that if it needed to be done.
    - Stamp duty is a tax on mobility and is at a level that definitely impacts behaviour negatively. Replacing with property taxes that are more incremental would be better.
    - I have less sympathy with cancelling the corporation tax rise, as evidence has shown tax deductions for investments made is a better incentive than cutting the headline rate.

    The trouble is we have a huge deficit, a massive rise in spending, increasing cost of debt and a plummeting pound.

    This is fantasy economics that is going to end in disaster.

    Fair enough.

    I can see the sense in replacing stamp duty with property taxes… but of course Truss isn’t proposing replacing her stamp duty cut with anything other than borrowing.

  • Andy_JS said:

    Indefensible.

    "Truss admits her tax cuts will disproportionately benefit the rich"

    https://news.sky.com/story/liz-truss-prepared-to-be-unpopular-with-tax-policy-to-boost-economic-growth-12702039

    Tax cuts disproportionately benefit tax payers. What a shock.

    Why not just increase taxes to 100% if that's your point of view, as anything less than that "disproportionately benefits" the rich.
    Trickle down economics doesn’t work. Tax cuts for the rich aren’t going to massively increase growth, so they will increase the deficit, which will weaken the pound and lead to further inflation, making everyone poorer. Unless, of course, you slash public services. You think it takes a long time to get a GP appointment now? Wait until we’re further into Truss’s premiership.

    Counter-cyclical taxation policies work if you invest in the country. The Government isn’t doing anything to improve productivity. It’s just inflating house prices with a stamp duty cut and encouraging unsafe financial systems through deregulation.

    Truss isn't doing "tax cuts for the rich" or "trickle down economics" though, she's doing tax cuts for tax payers. Trickle down is when you only cut the rates of tax for the highest tax payers, rather than cutting everybody's tax which is what reversing the NI hike does.

    Cutting everyone's tax does work, tax rises don't work, they strangle the economy and don't raise the revenues expected.
    One can, of course, cut or raise taxes in a broad variety of ways. There are taxes that nearly everybody pays, like VAT, and there are taxes that are paid by a smaller proportion of the population, like inheritance tax or tobacco duty. Is there a particular group that benefit the most from Truss’s plans? Yes. Those on the highest incomes.

    What of her other plans? How is a stamp duty cut benefitting everybody, when so many can’t even get on the property ladder? How is increasing bankers’ bonuses benefitting everybody?

    Some will get the benefits, but we all pay the price of a massively increased deficit.
    There are taxes that are paid by those who work for a living, like National Insurance.

    There are taxes that are paid by those who are trying to get on the housing ladder, or engaged in labour mobility, like SDLT.

    If you want to tax wealth, then taxing those who are working for a living is the worst place to start. Wealthy people who make their money from unearned incomes are not the ones benefiting from these tax changes.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,661

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Zara Sultana MP

    My train to Leeds for tonight's Enough is Enough rally has been stopped just outside London for the last 3 hours. I'm sorry not to be there, Leeds! 😭

    Just another reminder that we need to bring rail into public ownership and make it fit for the future! 🚄

    LNER
    Replying to @zarahsultana and @eiecampaign
    I am sorry for the delay, Zarah. This was due to damage to the overhead electric wires meaning services could not move around Stevenage, but services are now on the move. On your other point, LNER is owned by the DfT after the franchise was handed back in 2018. ^Cameron



    https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1572313997931585538

    Personally, I salute Labour for not discriminating on the basis of race, sex, or intelligence.
    I wouldn't put money on Labour holding Coventry South at the next election.
    I have banged on and on about thick as mince Corbynites such as Sultana. "why are you singling out this woman of colour" sometimes is the attack on Twitter.

    It's not because she's a woman.
    Its not because she is British Asian.
    Its because she is a fucking moron. An ideologue zealot one at that.
    Sounds like Mrs Sussex.
    Really? Haven't seen any evidence of her moronity. They don't like her because she is a black American woman with opinions and a mouth. British princesses are supposed to come straight out of Harry Enfield's WOMEN KNOW YOUR LIMITS sketch, and she doesn't.
    Actually it’s because she is a lying manipulative narcissist who’s just out for what she can take
    I see we are at the anger phase of the grief response.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    .
    darkage said:

    Shock as an economically illiterate government tries to solve a supply issue by incentivising demand

    I am literally begging, just build more fucking houses

    You need to tell the labour party to roll out my recommended strategy of choosing about 10 safe conservative seats on the periphery of London, areas with lots of undeveloped land and of limited landscape value, and pledge to pass an Act of Parliament in the first 100 days of being elected that grants outline planning permission for 2 million new houses in these areas.

    No one on PB has ever been able to identify a downside to this when I suggest it. It should be labour party policy.
    Milton Keynes?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,671

    Shock as an economically illiterate government tries to solve a supply issue by incentivising demand

    I am literally begging, just build more fucking houses

    *I don't agree with the below*

    A Tory response could be to try and reduce demand on housing. It's not just population growth that has led to increased prices (Scotland, for example).

    One reason is younger people spend more time living alone before pairing up. Another is the number of divorces, each of which doubles the number of homes needed.

    So, some traditional Tory incentives for living as a couple might be a better response.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hmmmm.

    So - you call up 300,000 men to an operation you claimed was going well but hasn’t finished after eight months, and at a time when people are unhappy with you.

    You have a severely weakened officer corps due to the high attrition rate.

    You give these people weapons, if you have them.

    And tell them to point their weapons at the Ukrainians.

    It’s an old strategy. It worked really well for, say, Nicholas II.

    Ah.

    And call them up to the capital city military depots...

    From Pskoff to piss off?
  • Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Zara Sultana MP

    My train to Leeds for tonight's Enough is Enough rally has been stopped just outside London for the last 3 hours. I'm sorry not to be there, Leeds! 😭

    Just another reminder that we need to bring rail into public ownership and make it fit for the future! 🚄

    LNER
    Replying to @zarahsultana and @eiecampaign
    I am sorry for the delay, Zarah. This was due to damage to the overhead electric wires meaning services could not move around Stevenage, but services are now on the move. On your other point, LNER is owned by the DfT after the franchise was handed back in 2018. ^Cameron



    https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1572313997931585538

    Personally, I salute Labour for not discriminating on the basis of race, sex, or intelligence.
    I wouldn't put money on Labour holding Coventry South at the next election.
    I have banged on and on about thick as mince Corbynites such as Sultana. "why are you singling out this woman of colour" sometimes is the attack on Twitter.

    It's not because she's a woman.
    Its not because she is British Asian.
    Its because she is a fucking moron. An ideologue zealot one at that.
    Sounds like Mrs Sussex.
    Really? Haven't seen any evidence of her moronity. They don't like her because she is a black American woman with opinions and a mouth. British princesses are supposed to come straight out of Harry Enfield's WOMEN KNOW YOUR LIMITS sketch, and she doesn't.
    Actually it’s because she is a lying manipulative narcissist who’s just out for what she can take
    I see we are at the anger phase of the grief response.

    A cocktail of geo-strategising and whining about Meghan is pretty much the essence of PB nowadays. Just needs an incarnation of PB’s walking, talking multiple personality disorder prolapsing over nuclear armageddon to turn up to add the maraschino cherry to the mix.
This discussion has been closed.