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Sleepless Knights of the Shires – politicalbetting.com

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  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,243
    Leon said:

    Talking of exciting new politics, here’s a BBC report on the unrest in Leicester

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-62943952

    It’s impressive journalism because it manages to go the whole length of the article without mentioning that it’s Hindi v Muslim rioting. It does mention the
    “India V Pakistan” cricket match, so the casual reader might think people are unhappy about the LBW rule

    Presumably this is deliberate so as to “not inflame tensions” but it looks ridiculous and devious

    That would be too blunt for the BBC.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916
    Has my amazing AI cartoon of Putin been removed? It was hardly offensive. Oh well

    I was just proving that computers can now do much better illustrations than professional illustrators, and that they can do it on demand, for free, in seconds

    Ominous
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,399
    kle4 said:

    I have a suspicion, though, that the real purpose of the name, if it is as they report, is that Rees-Mogg prefers to head a Ministry rather than a Department.

    Ironically the only growth it is likely to oversee is in departments...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,399
    Leon said:

    Has my amazing AI cartoon of Putin been removed? It was hardly offensive. Oh well

    I was just proving that computers can now do much better illustrations than professional illustrators, and that they can do it on demand, for free, in seconds

    Ominous

    So don't go and visit the Queen, and get an AI to write the story for you.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Has my amazing AI cartoon of Putin been removed? It was hardly offensive. Oh well

    I was just proving that computers can now do much better illustrations than professional illustrators, and that they can do it on demand, for free, in seconds

    Ominous

    So don't go and visit the Queen, and get an AI to write the story for you.
    I am pretty sure AI could auto-generate much of the royal media coverage of the last ten days. Probably do it better
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,399
    Leon said:

    I am pretty sure AI could auto-generate much of the royal media coverage of the last ten days. Probably do it better

    It couldn't come up with Schofield
  • ChrisChris Posts: 10,931
    Scott_xP said:

    The Sunday Times reports that the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy may get yet another change of name - to Ministry of Growth, after Rees-Mogg perhaps. What a stupid waste of money departmental name changes are.
    https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1571458617492262912

    That's almost Orwellian. MiniGro for short?
  • I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I am pretty sure AI could auto-generate much of the royal media coverage of the last ten days. Probably do it better

    It couldn't come up with Schofield
    Oh I’m sure it could. You’d prompt it for narrative

    “Suggest slightly annoying development involving people skipping the queue”

    It would give you 200 answers and one of them would be “irritating celeb Philip Schofield is seen skipping queue using VIP media pass”

    You’d then ask it to generate fake images of Schofield, in the VIP box in Westminster Hall. It could do that too

    Humans won’t need to do anything nor even particularly exist. AI will generate stories that are entirely convincing and pleasingly annoying and they will be pumped into our inert brains which will be kept in glass buckets
  • Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Sunday Times reports that the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy may get yet another change of name - to Ministry of Growth, after Rees-Mogg perhaps. What a stupid waste of money departmental name changes are.
    https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1571458617492262912

    That's almost Orwellian. MiniGro for short?
    Why not call it Ministry of Plenty and be done with it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    edited September 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of exciting new politics, here’s a BBC report on the unrest in Leicester

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-62943952

    It’s impressive journalism because it manages to go the whole length of the article without mentioning that it’s Hindi v Muslim rioting. It does mention the
    “India V Pakistan” cricket match, so the casual reader might think people are unhappy about the LBW rule

    Presumably this is deliberate so as to “not inflame tensions” but it looks ridiculous and devious

    That would be too blunt for the BBC.
    In terms of sectarian hatred, these guys are amateurs. The real experts are north of the border.

    Poor old St. Mirren decided to have a minute's clapping for HMQ, presumably to drown out the chants of the Celtic supporters. Not to be outdone Celtic's contingent had a massive banner at their end with 'if you hate the Royal Family clap your hands' on it. They had a drum to co-ordinate the chants and everything.

    Finely distilled hatred, honed down the decades.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,509

    My sample is only three, but none my kids have given even the slightest indication they have any active interest in scrapping the monarchy. What I don't know is how bothered they would be if it was scrapped. I am pretty sure they are less attached to it than older generations, but they would need a lot of persuading that it would be helpful to get rid of it.

    Tell them about the prospect of President Boris Johnson. That should help them decide.
  • Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I am pretty sure AI could auto-generate much of the royal media coverage of the last ten days. Probably do it better

    It couldn't come up with Schofield
    Oh I’m sure it could. You’d prompt it for narrative

    “Suggest slightly annoying development involving people skipping the queue”

    It would give you 200 answers and one of them would be “irritating celeb Philip Schofield is seen skipping queue using VIP media pass”

    You’d then ask it to generate fake images of Schofield, in the VIP box in Westminster Hall. It could do that too

    Humans won’t need to do anything nor even particularly exist. AI will generate stories that are entirely convincing and pleasingly annoying and they will be pumped into our inert brains which will be kept in glass buckets
    That could work.

    Media loves to create hate figures. It does something good for our emotions. What's shitty is when the hate is directed at real people (The Schof, Megan Sussex, reality bimbos etc).

    So. Create AI fakebots who the press can hate on. All of the emotional satisfaction, none of the real hurt. It could work.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I am pretty sure AI could auto-generate much of the royal media coverage of the last ten days. Probably do it better

    It couldn't come up with Schofield
    Oh I’m sure it could. You’d prompt it for narrative

    “Suggest slightly annoying development involving people skipping the queue”

    It would give you 200 answers and one of them would be “irritating celeb Philip Schofield is seen skipping queue using VIP media pass”

    You’d then ask it to generate fake images of Schofield, in the VIP box in Westminster Hall. It could do that too

    Humans won’t need to do anything nor even particularly exist. AI will generate stories that are entirely convincing and pleasingly annoying and they will be pumped into our inert brains which will be kept in glass buckets
    That could work.

    Media loves to create hate figures. It does something good for our emotions. What's shitty is when the hate is directed at real people (The Schof, Megan Sussex, reality bimbos etc).

    So. Create AI fakebots who the press can hate on. All of the emotional satisfaction, none of the real hurt. It could work.
    It WILL work. Unless we destroy ourselves with war and climate change, something like this is the future
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,471
    edited September 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Lindsay Hoyle says "we should not allow anything to overshadow the most important event the world will ever see, and that's the funeral of her Majesty". 👀 #bbclaurak

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1571419837364326401

    I support the queue and will probably be turning out in Hammersmith tomorrow to watch the cortege, but that really is ludicrous.
  • MISTY said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of exciting new politics, here’s a BBC report on the unrest in Leicester

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-62943952

    It’s impressive journalism because it manages to go the whole length of the article without mentioning that it’s Hindi v Muslim rioting. It does mention the
    “India V Pakistan” cricket match, so the casual reader might think people are unhappy about the LBW rule

    Presumably this is deliberate so as to “not inflame tensions” but it looks ridiculous and devious

    That would be too blunt for the BBC.
    In terms of sectarian hatred, these guys are amateurs. The real experts are north of the border.

    Poor old St. Mirren decided to have a minute's clapping for HMQ, presumably to drown out the chants of the Celtic supporters. Not to be outdone Celtic's contingent had a massive banner at their end with 'if you hate the Royal Family clap your hands' on it. They had a drum to co-ordinate the chants and everything.

    Finely distilled hatred, honed down the decades.
    To which sect do St Mirren supporters belong?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 42,833
    pm215 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    People are allowed to be angry about things.

    Yes, but they should also expect that depending on how they express that anger they may be viewed by other people as threatening. That's part of what anger is.
    The exaggeration of the sense of fear is interesting.

    I rather got the impression, from the university friends who were participating in the counter demo, that the real problem was that they believed “the streets are ours”. And that day, they weren’t.

    One described a member of the CA demo looking at them “confidently, with a smile, almost amused” - which was to him (the hunt sab) the “wrong” state of things.

    It amused me, because as someone working in the City, demos threatening violence, actual threats being made, burning effigies, nooses etc are the street theatre of many a demo.

    Perhaps I should panic and go all Gen. Dwyer on Black Bloc just in case of Maoist insurrection? Or should I just wear jeans to work - as I have for a decade and more
  • Leon said:

    Has my amazing AI cartoon of Putin been removed? It was hardly offensive. Oh well

    I was just proving that computers can now do much better illustrations than professional illustrators, and that they can do it on demand, for free, in seconds

    Ominous

    Ann Wossname's was better. The Z made it topical. Your AI picture, even if you feel it better captured his likeness and gave him a strained look, might have been Putin feeling down about anything at all really.

    But maybe that is where the future lies. Human creativity for the idea, allied to the craft, the work, being done by AI.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 42,833

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lindsay Hoyle says "we should not allow anything to overshadow the most important event the world will ever see, and that's the funeral of her Majesty". 👀 #bbclaurak

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1571419837364326401

    The evidence of his twatishness grows apace.
    There is a strong completion between the loony republicans and the loony royalists who can say the silliest things.

    I think it is neck and neck as they enter the final straight….

    Perhaps @MoonRabbit can call the winner?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243
    Scott_xP said:

    The Sunday Times reports that the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy may get yet another change of name - to Ministry of Growth, after Rees-Mogg perhaps. What a stupid waste of money departmental name changes are.
    https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1571458617492262912

    Should go back to the brief 2007 name - Productivity, Energy and Industry.

    Especially given it’s now led by a massive cock.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916

    Leon said:

    Has my amazing AI cartoon of Putin been removed? It was hardly offensive. Oh well

    I was just proving that computers can now do much better illustrations than professional illustrators, and that they can do it on demand, for free, in seconds

    Ominous

    Ann Wossname's was better. The Z made it topical. Your AI picture, even if you feel it better captured his likeness and gave him a strained look, might have been Putin feeling down about anything at all really.

    But maybe that is where the future lies. Human creativity for the idea, allied to the craft, the work, being done by AI.
    No it wasn’t better, the human illustration was poor. Her likeness of Putin was lamentably bad. It was a barely recognisable representation of him, over which she’d scrawled a “Z”

    I could do that with 1 minute editing of my image. Scrawl a Z over the AI’s vastly better version of Putin

    Indeed I just have. But I can’t show you

  • Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    I have learnt a new word today.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    MISTY said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of exciting new politics, here’s a BBC report on the unrest in Leicester

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-62943952

    It’s impressive journalism because it manages to go the whole length of the article without mentioning that it’s Hindi v Muslim rioting. It does mention the
    “India V Pakistan” cricket match, so the casual reader might think people are unhappy about the LBW rule

    Presumably this is deliberate so as to “not inflame tensions” but it looks ridiculous and devious

    That would be too blunt for the BBC.
    In terms of sectarian hatred, these guys are amateurs. The real experts are north of the border.

    Poor old St. Mirren decided to have a minute's clapping for HMQ, presumably to drown out the chants of the Celtic supporters. Not to be outdone Celtic's contingent had a massive banner at their end with 'if you hate the Royal Family clap your hands' on it. They had a drum to co-ordinate the chants and everything.

    Finely distilled hatred, honed down the decades.
    To which sect do St Mirren supporters belong?
    The 'caught in the crossfire' sect....??
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916

    Leon said:

    Has my amazing AI cartoon of Putin been removed? It was hardly offensive. Oh well

    I was just proving that computers can now do much better illustrations than professional illustrators, and that they can do it on demand, for free, in seconds

    Ominous

    Ann Wossname's was better. The Z made it topical. Your AI picture, even if you feel it better captured his likeness and gave him a strained look, might have been Putin feeling down about anything at all really.

    But maybe that is where the future lies. Human creativity for the idea, allied to the craft, the work, being done by AI.
    I’d like to show you what I just did with that Putin AI cartoon in 1 minute. But I don’t want to get banned
  • MattWMattW Posts: 17,732
    edited September 2022
    LOL.

    The Graun has already reverse-ferreted on today's idiot baiting misleading headline. Unusually quick for them.

    It took far longer on the 'Charles has made 100 staff redundant' headline a day or two ago.




    My question is why can't these numpties write a decent headline in the first place? It's not difficult.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Has my amazing AI cartoon of Putin been removed? It was hardly offensive. Oh well

    I was just proving that computers can now do much better illustrations than professional illustrators, and that they can do it on demand, for free, in seconds

    Ominous

    Ann Wossname's was better. The Z made it topical. Your AI picture, even if you feel it better captured his likeness and gave him a strained look, might have been Putin feeling down about anything at all really.

    But maybe that is where the future lies. Human creativity for the idea, allied to the craft, the work, being done by AI.
    No it wasn’t better, the human illustration was poor. Her likeness of Putin was lamentably bad. It was a barely recognisable representation of him, over which she’d scrawled a “Z”

    I could do that with 1 minute editing of my image. Scrawl a Z over the AI’s vastly better version of Putin

    Indeed I just have. But I can’t show you

    That is my point. It is the Z that gave the cartoon its power, that related it to the Ukraine SMO. And it is the Z that required human creativity. And maybe that is the future: the human has the idea and the AI draws it.

    Everyone here raves about Matt's cartoons in the Telegraph but no-one claims Matt is a great artist, or would buy his crude drawings sans punchlines. Matt thinks up the jokes. The human element matters, at least for now.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,069

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lindsay Hoyle says "we should not allow anything to overshadow the most important event the world will ever see, and that's the funeral of her Majesty". 👀 #bbclaurak

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1571419837364326401

    The evidence of his twatishness grows apace.
    There is a strong completion between the loony republicans and the loony royalists who can say the silliest things.

    I think it is neck and neck as they enter the final straight….

    Perhaps @MoonRabbit can call the winner?
    Monarchists win this, obviously 😁
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,069
    edited September 2022

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lindsay Hoyle says "we should not allow anything to overshadow the most important event the world will ever see, and that's the funeral of her Majesty". 👀 #bbclaurak

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1571419837364326401

    The evidence of his twatishness grows apace.
    There is a strong completion between the loony republicans and the loony royalists who can say the silliest things.

    I think it is neck and neck as they enter the final straight….

    Perhaps @MoonRabbit can call the winner?
    Monarchists win this, obviously 😁
    No wait. It’s “whose the biggest twit in the black” competition?

    Republicans win, not even close.

    Clive Lewis wins my man of the mourn award, for grandstanding rather just politely shutting up for a few days.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lindsay Hoyle says "we should not allow anything to overshadow the most important event the world will ever see, and that's the funeral of her Majesty". 👀 #bbclaurak

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1571419837364326401

    I support the queue and will probably be turning out in Hammersmith tomorrow to watch the cortege, but that really is ludicrous.
    Ludicrous? For "one of the greatest leaders the world has ever known", as Liz Truss called her?
    Leon said:

    I will always be the PB-er who SKIPPED THE QUEUE

    Gulp

    The queue is there to be skipped.

    What is monarchy but the apotheosis of the principle of jumping the queue, pushing in in front of people and grabbing stuff, and "Don't you know who I am?"

    Similarly poverty in Seville provides such a delicious "counterpoint" to luxury consumption by the rich in that city...

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 42,833

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lindsay Hoyle says "we should not allow anything to overshadow the most important event the world will ever see, and that's the funeral of her Majesty". 👀 #bbclaurak

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1571419837364326401

    The evidence of his twatishness grows apace.
    There is a strong completion between the loony republicans and the loony royalists who can say the silliest things.

    I think it is neck and neck as they enter the final straight….

    Perhaps @MoonRabbit can call the winner?
    Monarchists win this, obviously 😁
    No wait. It’s “whose the biggest twit in the black” competition?
    I think calling it this early is foolish. We haven’t heard from Piers Corbyn yet, for example.

    There are massive tools on both sides still in their.. boxes?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,695
    I've been pleasantly surprised by the tolerance of opposing views from ordinary folk of my acquaintance tbh.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,351
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Sunday Times reports that the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy may get yet another change of name - to Ministry of Growth, after Rees-Mogg perhaps. What a stupid waste of money departmental name changes are.
    https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1571458617492262912

    Should go back to the brief 2007 name - Productivity, Energy and Industry.

    Especially given it’s now led by a massive cock.
    Well you know my view of BEIS. Only matched by your view of DfE.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lindsay Hoyle says "we should not allow anything to overshadow the most important event the world will ever see, and that's the funeral of her Majesty". 👀 #bbclaurak

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1571419837364326401

    The evidence of his twatishness grows apace.
    There is a strong completion between the loony republicans and the loony royalists who can say the silliest things.

    I think it is neck and neck as they enter the final straight….

    Perhaps @MoonRabbit can call the winner?
    Monarchists win this, obviously 😁
    Clive Lewis wins my man of the mourn award, for grandstanding rather just politely shutting up for a few days.
    I'm less keen as clearly Norwich South is Woolie country not Lewis' cornball amateur republican ne'er do well country
    I might have to unseat him next time out
  • Have been playing with my new Tesla. Honest think the Light Show is the daftest thing I have ever seen on a car. Wonderful, but daft...
  • #strong 💪
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 42,833
    dixiedean said:

    I've been pleasantly surprised by the tolerance of opposing views from ordinary folk of my acquaintance tbh.

    That’s normal people in real life vs people on the Interwebs.

    I think an undervalued part of British culture is the idea that getting too worked up about things is a bit weird. With a few obvious exceptions, such as football.

    The glass is not half full. The glass is not half empty. The important question is - whose round is it?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,069

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lindsay Hoyle says "we should not allow anything to overshadow the most important event the world will ever see, and that's the funeral of her Majesty". 👀 #bbclaurak

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1571419837364326401

    The evidence of his twatishness grows apace.
    There is a strong completion between the loony republicans and the loony royalists who can say the silliest things.

    I think it is neck and neck as they enter the final straight….

    Perhaps @MoonRabbit can call the winner?
    Monarchists win this, obviously 😁
    Clive Lewis wins my man of the mourn award, for grandstanding rather just politely shutting up for a few days.
    I'm less keen as clearly Norwich South is Woolie country not Lewis' cornball amateur republican ne'er do well country
    I might have to unseat him next time out
    Yes. Do that 👍🏻
  • Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    That GrieveWatch Twitter account is fucking mint.


    M6 Stafford Services

    Poignant


    This is the national hysteria I refer to. Tributes to the Queen in the window of Poundland - did she work shifts there? Enforced closure of bike parking racks and of condom vending machines. For the Queen. What the fuck is wrong with people?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,479
    CD13 said:

    Interesting perspectives on the mass graves. Ukraine invites in the world's press, the Russians would never do that. They can't allow them to form their own opinions. But the Russians have form. The Katyn Forest one of many.

    Where's Mr Dynamo?

    More to the point, they have called UN human rights investigators too, since the Kyiv attack was rebuffed.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited September 2022
    Someone posted here saying he would pay his respects to the train carriage containing the coffin - this was when it was planned to bring it to London by rail - by standing to attention on a hill lying a fair distance away from where he imagined a crowd of plebs would be standing at the trackside, in all their disgusting plebbishness.

    For some reason I can't get the image out of my head of him having a dog with him and making sure that the dog's tail rests perfectly flat and still on the ground, perpendicular to the plane tangential to the rail line, out of deep respect for the late monarch.

  • Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
  • This is a really interesting thread header, thanks James for writing it. I wonder what differentiates the rural wards that the Tories held from the ones they lost?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    That GrieveWatch Twitter account is fucking mint.


    M6 Stafford Services

    Poignant


    This is the national hysteria I refer to. Tributes to the Queen in the window of Poundland - did she work shifts there? Enforced closure of bike parking racks and of condom vending machines. For the Queen. What the fuck is wrong with people?
    There are elements of madness. It is the religious impulse in Britons which is normally deeply buried. We saw it with Diana as well

    Be calm. It will all be over in 24 hours

  • MattWMattW Posts: 17,732
    edited September 2022

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    That GrieveWatch Twitter account is fucking mint.


    M6 Stafford Services

    Poignant


    This is the national hysteria I refer to. Tributes to the Queen in the window of Poundland - did she work shifts there? Enforced closure of bike parking racks and of condom vending machines. For the Queen. What the fuck is wrong with people?
    I just don't get that.

    What's the problem with a modest acknowledgement of the death of our 70 year Head of State?

    The bike racks in Norwich were closed because that is where floral tributes and the queue to sign the book of condolence are going. Some elements of the bicyclist lobby went off at the deep end as usual, opting for viral outrage on twitter without checking their facts first.

    The funny thing is the chap took a photo on his phone, when he could just have used the phone to phone up Norwich Council to ask what was happening.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Dynamo said:

    Someone posted here saying he would pay his respects to the train carriage containing the coffin - this was when it was planned to bring it to London by rail - by standing to attention on a hill lying a fair distance away from where he imagined a crowd of plebs would be standing at the trackside, in all their disgusting plebbishness.

    For some reason I can't get the image out of my head of him having a dog with him and making sure that the dog's tail rests perfectly flat and still on the ground, perpendicular to the plane tangential to the rail line, out of deep respect for the late monarch.

    To be fair the proles are unremittingly dreadful and we should all be unceasingly grateful for the buffer of inherited wealth, family and public school connections which separates us from them.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 42,833
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    That GrieveWatch Twitter account is fucking mint.


    M6 Stafford Services

    Poignant


    This is the national hysteria I refer to. Tributes to the Queen in the window of Poundland - did she work shifts there? Enforced closure of bike parking racks and of condom vending machines. For the Queen. What the fuck is wrong with people?
    I just don't get that.

    What's the problem with a modest acknowledgement of the death of our 70 year Head of State?

    The bike racks in Norwich were closed because that is where floral tributes and the queue to sign the book of condolence are going. Some elements of the bicyclist lobby went off at the deep end as usual, opting for viral outrage on twitter without checking their facts first.

    The funny thing is the chap took a photo on his phone, when he could just have used the phone to phone up Norwich Council to ask what was happening.
    But that would, as CNN journalists used to say, “fucked his story with too much research”.
  • As an aside, Mrs J (not a royalist) made a comment about how ridiculous the queuing to see the queen is.

    So I pointed out that people in Turkey still go and see Ataturk's body in its memorial tomb. "Yes," she replied, "but we don't queue for it!"

    To which I replied: "I bet they did immediately after he died!"

    And a quick Google shows that I was correct:
    https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/in-pictures-how-turkey-mourned-the-loss-of-its-founding-father-ataturk-51523
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk

    I bet there's loads of other examples as well. I see Nasser's funeral procession was attended by five million Egyptians! Perhaps there's something innate in Human nature to mourn the passing of great and positive (to us!) figures we never met?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,479
    .

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    I have learnt a new word today.
    Polite ?
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    You work for the press?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,479
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    The man who professes his desire to fight and die for the monarchy is jumping the queue ? :smile:
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    Lol
  • Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    Part of me wanted to go and join the queen queue, but my life needed to go on: I couldn't drop everything and get down to London for what would probably have been at least 24 hours (including travel). So I did an 11-mile run this morning, and got some spiritual uplift from that. I didn't get laid during the run though... ;)

    I'm actually finding the TV coverage surprisingly moving. The little 'un's got a friend coming around for a playdate during the funeral tomorrow, so I might hide myself in the study to watch it.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,471
    edited September 2022
    I do find that service station hand sanitiser royal tribute funny, and the poundland ones. It's partly just the impossibility of dignity in these situations, but not only. I was genuinely disappointed to hear that all the Little Chefs have closed recently, so there won't be able to be that dignified tribute we were expecting across on their car parks and forecourts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,479
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    Entirely understandable.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 17,732
    edited September 2022

    As an aside, Mrs J (not a royalist) made a comment about how ridiculous the queuing to see the queen is.

    So I pointed out that people in Turkey still go and see Ataturk's body in its memorial tomb. "Yes," she replied, "but we don't queue for it!"

    To which I replied: "I bet they did immediately after he died!"

    And a quick Google shows that I was correct:
    https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/in-pictures-how-turkey-mourned-the-loss-of-its-founding-father-ataturk-51523
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk

    I bet there's loads of other examples as well. I see Nasser's funeral procession was attended by five million Egyptians! Perhaps there's something innate in Human nature to mourn the passing of great and positive (to us!) figures we never met?

    Try the Ayatollah Khomeini. A new experience of "open casket".

    The crowd, much of it made up of Revolutionary Guards detailed to maintain order, pulled the coffin from the helicopter and began parading it around the makeshift compound surrounding the gravesite. As the excitement grew, the body of the Ayatollah, wrapped in a white burial shroud, fell out of the flimsy wooden coffin, and in a mad scene people in the crowd reached to touch the shroud. The soldiers pushed and wrestled, finally firing warning shots, to get the body back. Ayatollah Khomeini's son, Ahmad, was knocked from his feet. But even as the soldiers pushed the body back into the helicopter, the crowd swarmed over the craft, dragging it back down as it tried to take off. Others jumped into the hole dug for the Ayatollah's body. The troops drove the crowd back, finally clearing the compound enough to allow the helicopter to take off, its rotors scattering more mourners.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Ruhollah_Khomeini
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    You work for the press?
    I work mainly in the field of knapping artisanal lithic sex toys, as any fule know.

    I have a 2nd job as a roving reporter for the Knapper’s Gazette, where I go to foreign parts and discuss the stimulant potential of their basalt, and so forth

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    The man who professes his desire to fight and die for the monarchy is jumping the queue ? :smile:
    TBF, his turning up might well make the press queue as long as the pleb one, given LadyG, Byronic, Eadric, Fitz and the others stalk him so closely…
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 42,833

    As an aside, Mrs J (not a royalist) made a comment about how ridiculous the queuing to see the queen is.

    So I pointed out that people in Turkey still go and see Ataturk's body in its memorial tomb. "Yes," she replied, "but we don't queue for it!"

    To which I replied: "I bet they did immediately after he died!"

    And a quick Google shows that I was correct:
    https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/in-pictures-how-turkey-mourned-the-loss-of-its-founding-father-ataturk-51523
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk

    I bet there's loads of other examples as well. I see Nasser's funeral procession was attended by five million Egyptians! Perhaps there's something innate in Human nature to mourn the passing of great and positive (to us!) figures we never met?

    History is full of vast crowds attending funerals of great leaders and notable individuals. In fact, the absence of such crowds at such an event is comment worthy.
  • MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    That GrieveWatch Twitter account is fucking mint.


    M6 Stafford Services

    Poignant


    This is the national hysteria I refer to. Tributes to the Queen in the window of Poundland - did she work shifts there? Enforced closure of bike parking racks and of condom vending machines. For the Queen. What the fuck is wrong with people?
    I just don't get that.

    What's the problem with a modest acknowledgement of the death of our 70 year Head of State?

    The bike racks in Norwich were closed because that is where floral tributes and the queue to sign the book of condolence are going. Some elements of the bicyclist lobby went off at the deep end as usual, opting for viral outrage on twitter without checking their facts first.

    The funny thing is the chap took a photo on his phone, when he could just have used the phone to phone up Norwich Council to ask what was happening.
    The key word is "modest". If there were modest tributes then ok. Nothing about the hysteria has been modest. Tomorrow ITV are showing the funeral on all channels and platforms.

    Now I'm not an ITV3 viewer, but I don't see why they can't watch Homes Under The Hammer or whatever. Because sticking the wailing on every single channel will simply have all the people who don't want to watch it go to streaming services.

    It is 2022. The crown can no longer impose blanket fealty on the population. And in gormlessly trying to do so its making the arguments against it a little stronger. Do I think King Charles has demanded that ITV suspend all programming on all channels and platforms? No - but they have done it anyway. Because they likely expect the hard right screaming press would have them otherwise.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,310
    MattW said:

    As an aside, Mrs J (not a royalist) made a comment about how ridiculous the queuing to see the queen is.

    So I pointed out that people in Turkey still go and see Ataturk's body in its memorial tomb. "Yes," she replied, "but we don't queue for it!"

    To which I replied: "I bet they did immediately after he died!"

    And a quick Google shows that I was correct:
    https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/in-pictures-how-turkey-mourned-the-loss-of-its-founding-father-ataturk-51523
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk

    I bet there's loads of other examples as well. I see Nasser's funeral procession was attended by five million Egyptians! Perhaps there's something innate in Human nature to mourn the passing of great and positive (to us!) figures we never met?

    Try the Ayatollah Khomeini. A new experience of "open casket".

    The crowd, much of it made up of Revolutionary Guards detailed to maintain order, pulled the coffin from the helicopter and began parading it around the makeshift compound surrounding the gravesite. As the excitement grew, the body of the Ayatollah, wrapped in a white burial shroud, fell out of the flimsy wooden coffin, and in a mad scene people in the crowd reached to touch the shroud. The soldiers pushed and wrestled, finally firing warning shots, to get the body back. Ayatollah Khomeini's son, Ahmad, was knocked from his feet. But even as the soldiers pushed the body back into the helicopter, the crowd swarmed over the craft, dragging it back down as it tried to take off. Others jumped into the hole dug for the Ayatollah's body. The troops drove the crowd back, finally clearing the compound enough to allow the helicopter to take off, its rotors scattering more mourners.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Ruhollah_Khomeini
    Virtually all US Presidents lie in State on the Rotunda of the US Capitol.

    Most French Presidents too, thousands went to see Chirac lying in state in 2019 for instance

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0D5Ga5k0kac
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    You work for the press?
    Like I said, right-wing luvvie.

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    Part of me wanted to go and join the queen queue, but my life needed to go on: I couldn't drop everything and get down to London for what would probably have been at least 24 hours (including travel). So I did an 11-mile run this morning, and got some spiritual uplift from that. I didn't get laid during the run though... ;)

    I'm actually finding the TV coverage surprisingly moving. The little 'un's got a friend coming around for a playdate during the funeral tomorrow, so I might hide myself in the study to watch it.
    That's fine mate. I just expect a bit more from the likes of @Leon who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk and, secondly, we'll all now have to endure years of him recanting his regret about not joining The Queue because he couldn't be bothered.

    He hasn't worked out that the best rewards in life don't come from the self-indulgence seeking of pleasure for oneself but through serving others in a greater cause and, uniquely for HMQ given her sense of duty, you have to show yours too through the tenacity of The Queue to really understand and connect with her.

    I'm hard on him because I expect better of him and I'm trying to chip him in the right direction. For his own sake.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    To skip the queue is to skip the story. It's about the journey not the arrival. There's still time to get tanked up on ibogaine and do a Fear And Loathing In The Queue.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,310
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    And David Beckham
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    You work for the press?
    Like I said, right-wing luvvie.

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    Part of me wanted to go and join the queen queue, but my life needed to go on: I couldn't drop everything and get down to London for what would probably have been at least 24 hours (including travel). So I did an 11-mile run this morning, and got some spiritual uplift from that. I didn't get laid during the run though... ;)

    I'm actually finding the TV coverage surprisingly moving. The little 'un's got a friend coming around for a playdate during the funeral tomorrow, so I might hide myself in the study to watch it.
    That's fine mate. I just expect a bit more from the likes of @Leon who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk and, secondly, we'll all now have to endure years of him recanting his regret about not joining The Queue because he couldn't be bothered.

    He hasn't worked out that the best rewards in life don't come from the self-indulgence seeking of pleasure for oneself but through serving others in a greater cause and, uniquely for HMQ given her sense of duty, you have to show yours too through the tenacity of The Queue to really understand and connect with her.

    I'm hard on him because I expect better of him and I'm trying to chip him in the right direction. For his own sake.
    You’re actually turning me into a republican
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    You work for the press?
    Like I said, right-wing luvvie.

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    Part of me wanted to go and join the queen queue, but my life needed to go on: I couldn't drop everything and get down to London for what would probably have been at least 24 hours (including travel). So I did an 11-mile run this morning, and got some spiritual uplift from that. I didn't get laid during the run though... ;)

    I'm actually finding the TV coverage surprisingly moving. The little 'un's got a friend coming around for a playdate during the funeral tomorrow, so I might hide myself in the study to watch it.
    That's fine mate. I just expect a bit more from the likes of @Leon who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk and, secondly, we'll all now have to endure years of him recanting his regret about not joining The Queue because he couldn't be bothered.

    He hasn't worked out that the best rewards in life don't come from the self-indulgence seeking of pleasure for oneself but through serving others in a greater cause and, uniquely for HMQ given her sense of duty, you have to show yours too through the tenacity of The Queue to really understand and connect with her.

    I'm hard on him because I expect better of him and I'm trying to chip him in the right direction. For his own sake.
    You’re actually turning me into a republican
    Bollocks.
  • As an aside, Mrs J (not a royalist) made a comment about how ridiculous the queuing to see the queen is.

    So I pointed out that people in Turkey still go and see Ataturk's body in its memorial tomb. "Yes," she replied, "but we don't queue for it!"

    To which I replied: "I bet they did immediately after he died!"

    And a quick Google shows that I was correct:
    https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/in-pictures-how-turkey-mourned-the-loss-of-its-founding-father-ataturk-51523
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk

    I bet there's loads of other examples as well. I see Nasser's funeral procession was attended by five million Egyptians! Perhaps there's something innate in Human nature to mourn the passing of great and positive (to us!) figures we never met?

    History is full of vast crowds attending funerals of great leaders and notable individuals. In fact, the absence of such crowds at such an event is comment worthy.
    It’s the coronation that’s going to be interesting - particularly if we have an economically painful winter.

    Many of the people who have shown respect for the Queen and her service may feel very differently watching a hugely expensive pantomime if they and their families have experienced hardship between now and then.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    That GrieveWatch Twitter account is fucking mint.


    M6 Stafford Services

    Poignant


    This is the national hysteria I refer to. Tributes to the Queen in the window of Poundland - did she work shifts there? Enforced closure of bike parking racks and of condom vending machines. For the Queen. What the fuck is wrong with people?
    I just don't get that.

    What's the problem with a modest acknowledgement of the death of our 70 year Head of State?

    The bike racks in Norwich were closed because that is where floral tributes and the queue to sign the book of condolence are going. Some elements of the bicyclist lobby went off at the deep end as usual, opting for viral outrage on twitter without checking their facts first.

    The funny thing is the chap took a photo on his phone, when he could just have used the phone to phone up Norwich Council to ask what was happening.
    The key word is "modest". If there were modest tributes then ok. Nothing about the hysteria has been modest. Tomorrow ITV are showing the funeral on all channels and platforms.

    Now I'm not an ITV3 viewer, but I don't see why they can't watch Homes Under The Hammer or whatever. Because sticking the wailing on every single channel will simply have all the people who don't want to watch it go to streaming services.

    It is 2022. The crown can no longer impose blanket fealty on the population. And in gormlessly trying to do so its making the arguments against it a little stronger. Do I think King Charles has demanded that ITV suspend all programming on all channels and platforms? No - but they have done it anyway. Because they likely expect the hard right screaming press would have them otherwise.
    You seem to be contradicting yourself. Is it the Crown or the right wing press? Or does the one control the other?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 17,732
    edited September 2022
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    As an aside, Mrs J (not a royalist) made a comment about how ridiculous the queuing to see the queen is.

    So I pointed out that people in Turkey still go and see Ataturk's body in its memorial tomb. "Yes," she replied, "but we don't queue for it!"

    To which I replied: "I bet they did immediately after he died!"

    And a quick Google shows that I was correct:
    https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/in-pictures-how-turkey-mourned-the-loss-of-its-founding-father-ataturk-51523
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk

    I bet there's loads of other examples as well. I see Nasser's funeral procession was attended by five million Egyptians! Perhaps there's something innate in Human nature to mourn the passing of great and positive (to us!) figures we never met?

    Try the Ayatollah Khomeini. A new experience of "open casket".

    The crowd, much of it made up of Revolutionary Guards detailed to maintain order, pulled the coffin from the helicopter and began parading it around the makeshift compound surrounding the gravesite. As the excitement grew, the body of the Ayatollah, wrapped in a white burial shroud, fell out of the flimsy wooden coffin, and in a mad scene people in the crowd reached to touch the shroud. The soldiers pushed and wrestled, finally firing warning shots, to get the body back. Ayatollah Khomeini's son, Ahmad, was knocked from his feet. But even as the soldiers pushed the body back into the helicopter, the crowd swarmed over the craft, dragging it back down as it tried to take off. Others jumped into the hole dug for the Ayatollah's body. The troops drove the crowd back, finally clearing the compound enough to allow the helicopter to take off, its rotors scattering more mourners.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Ruhollah_Khomeini
    Virtually all US Presidents lie in State on the Rotunda of the US Capitol.

    Most French Presidents too, thousands went to see Chirac lying in state in 2019 for instance

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0D5Ga5k0kac
    Interesting given that Chirac was a) very unpopular and b) a corrupt politician who had been sentenced to 2 years in prison.

    Either respecting the office or making sure he was dead :wink: .

    I was interested that de Gaulle tried to insist on a modest funeral.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916
    Let’s face it, who here would actually DO THE SMELLY QUEUE with all the weird royalist proles, and sad lonely Remoaners, if you could just nip down to Westminster, say, “Ooh look at that long queue”, then flash your press card at the back, nip in to see her Maj, then rock down the Groucho Club for Sunday lunch with your photographer friend who is also covering the funeral for Stern magazine?

    Who amongst us would actually prefer THE QUEUE?
  • Leon said:

    Let’s face it, who here would actually DO THE SMELLY QUEUE with all the weird royalist proles, and sad lonely Remoaners, if you could just nip down to Westminster, say, “Ooh look at that long queue”, then flash your press card at the back, nip in to see her Maj, then rock down the Groucho Club for Sunday lunch with your photographer friend who is also covering the funeral for Stern magazine?

    Who amongst us would actually prefer THE QUEUE?

    Me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,004

    This is a really interesting thread header, thanks James for writing it. I wonder what differentiates the rural wards that the Tories held from the ones they lost?

    Even with locals providing opportunity for personal effort to make a difference it can go weird. I've seen rural areas switch where the person worked hard, and ones where they don't be retained.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 43,514
    edited September 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of exciting new politics, here’s a BBC report on the unrest in Leicester

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-62943952

    It’s impressive journalism because it manages to go the whole length of the article without mentioning that it’s Hindi v Muslim rioting. It does mention the
    “India V Pakistan” cricket match, so the casual reader might think people are unhappy about the LBW rule

    Presumably this is deliberate so as to “not inflame tensions” but it looks ridiculous and devious

    That would be too blunt for the BBC.
    This is what seems to have set it off yesterday, after a week of calm and multiple arrests of people identified at the previous post cricket events.

    https://twitter.com/JanKhan20104863/status/1571312691897307136?t=UNiZh9OAK_RX1bjsvVqO0A&s=19

    The Hindu nationalists marched through Green Lane (a mixed mainly Muslim/Hindu/Sikh shopping street) chanting "Jai Srirama" (victory to Lord Rama) amongst other slogans. This was clearly organised as there was it seems a coach up from London, though caught the Police by surprise.

    In response to untrue Social Media rumours of an attack on the nearby Masjid, Muslims rallied to oppose the Hindus, and there was a further confrontation on the mainly Hindu Belgrave/Melton rd area, including removing a flag from a temple.

    https://twitter.com/kevlondon4/status/1571288100424372224?t=KplTpqIVtSHFfq-BYyWzug&s=19

    Police were caught unawares, but do seem to have kept it under control by and large, and I expect further arrests will follow.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,479
    I don’t approve of all this Leon shaming.
    Even if I might find it faintly ridiculous, there is also something undeniably moving about Casino’s heartfelt commitment to the experience.

    But there’s something very slightly ugly about trying to impose one’s own choices on others.

    By all means have a laugh at him; he is after all PB’s semi-licensed jester. But allow him his own choices.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    You work for the press?
    Like I said, right-wing luvvie.

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    Part of me wanted to go and join the queen queue, but my life needed to go on: I couldn't drop everything and get down to London for what would probably have been at least 24 hours (including travel). So I did an 11-mile run this morning, and got some spiritual uplift from that. I didn't get laid during the run though... ;)

    I'm actually finding the TV coverage surprisingly moving. The little 'un's got a friend coming around for a playdate during the funeral tomorrow, so I might hide myself in the study to watch it.
    That's fine mate. I just expect a bit more from the likes of @Leon who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk and, secondly, we'll all now have to endure years of him recanting his regret about not joining The Queue because he couldn't be bothered.

    He hasn't worked out that the best rewards in life don't come from the self-indulgence seeking of pleasure for oneself but through serving others in a greater cause and, uniquely for HMQ given her sense of duty, you have to show yours too through the tenacity of The Queue to really understand and connect with her.

    I'm hard on him because I expect better of him and I'm trying to chip him in the right direction. For his own sake.
    Yeah, I agree wrt Leon. The way I see it about my own situation: the Queen was all about duty. And my duty at the moment is looking after an 8-year old boy. I think she'd understand.

    And no, I wouldn't want to take him. He's sad by her passing, but would hate queuing for many hours, and showed zero interest in it.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650

    As an aside, Mrs J (not a royalist) made a comment about how ridiculous the queuing to see the queen is.

    So I pointed out that people in Turkey still go and see Ataturk's body in its memorial tomb. "Yes," she replied, "but we don't queue for it!"

    To which I replied: "I bet they did immediately after he died!"

    And a quick Google shows that I was correct:
    https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/in-pictures-how-turkey-mourned-the-loss-of-its-founding-father-ataturk-51523
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk

    I bet there's loads of other examples as well. I see Nasser's funeral procession was attended by five million Egyptians! Perhaps there's something innate in Human nature to mourn the passing of great and positive (to us!) figures we never met?

    History is full of vast crowds attending funerals of great leaders and notable individuals. In fact, the absence of such crowds at such an event is comment worthy.
    It’s the coronation that’s going to be interesting - particularly if we have an economically painful winter.

    Many of the people who have shown respect for the Queen and her service may feel very differently watching a hugely expensive pantomime if they and their families have experienced hardship between now and then.
    It will require a sell. Some sort of unifying national moment 'after the storm', sell the hope and majesty, downplay the cost.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,471
    edited September 2022

    As an aside, Mrs J (not a royalist) made a comment about how ridiculous the queuing to see the queen is.

    So I pointed out that people in Turkey still go and see Ataturk's body in its memorial tomb. "Yes," she replied, "but we don't queue for it!"

    To which I replied: "I bet they did immediately after he died!"

    And a quick Google shows that I was correct:
    https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/in-pictures-how-turkey-mourned-the-loss-of-its-founding-father-ataturk-51523
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk

    I bet there's loads of other examples as well. I see Nasser's funeral procession was attended by five million Egyptians! Perhaps there's something innate in Human nature to mourn the passing of great and positive (to us!) figures we never met?

    History is full of vast crowds attending funerals of great leaders and notable individuals. In fact, the absence of such crowds at such an event is comment worthy.
    It’s the coronation that’s going to be interesting - particularly if we have an economically painful winter.

    Many of the people who have shown respect for the Queen and her service may feel very differently watching a hugely expensive pantomime if they and their families have experienced hardship between now and then.
    Apparently King Chazbo is planning a very scaled-down coronation, or at least compared to the last one, and which I agree with him on.

    A lot of the very summit of the pageantry will still be there, but the numbers of bit layers, and indistinct masses swaying in colourful ermine in the background,, will be scaled back. From Cecil B. Demille and a cast of thousands to Yiorgos Lanthimos and The Favourite.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    You work for the press?
    Like I said, right-wing luvvie.

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    Part of me wanted to go and join the queen queue, but my life needed to go on: I couldn't drop everything and get down to London for what would probably have been at least 24 hours (including travel). So I did an 11-mile run this morning, and got some spiritual uplift from that. I didn't get laid during the run though... ;)

    I'm actually finding the TV coverage surprisingly moving. The little 'un's got a friend coming around for a playdate during the funeral tomorrow, so I might hide myself in the study to watch it.
    That's fine mate. I just expect a bit more from the likes of @Leon who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk and, secondly, we'll all now have to endure years of him recanting his regret about not joining The Queue because he couldn't be bothered.

    He hasn't worked out that the best rewards in life don't come from the self-indulgence seeking of pleasure for oneself but through serving others in a greater cause and, uniquely for HMQ given her sense of duty, you have to show yours too through the tenacity of The Queue to really understand and connect with her.

    I'm hard on him because I expect better of him and I'm trying to chip him in the right direction. For his own sake.
    Why do you care so much about a person who is playing a made-up persona that doesn't reflect anything resembling reality?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,479
    Meanwhile, on the other side of the pond…
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1571308887248179200

    Anyone else getting low-energy Nuremberg vibes from this ?
  • Nigelb said:

    I don’t approve of all this Leon shaming.
    Even if I might find it faintly ridiculous, there is also something undeniably moving about Casino’s heartfelt commitment to the experience.

    But there’s something very slightly ugly about trying to impose one’s own choices on others.

    By all means have a laugh at him; he is after all PB’s semi-licensed jester. But allow him his own choices.

    Oh, he can do what he likes- don't get me wrong.

    It's the hypocrisy I can't stand. Just calling him out on his bullshit.

    Also, and I mean this sincerely, I have a small soft spot for him. I have known him for yonks on here and know him well enough to know he'll regret it.

    Which is why I've been dropping hints and trying to get him to commit for the last 48 hours.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,004

    As an aside, Mrs J (not a royalist) made a comment about how ridiculous the queuing to see the queen is.

    So I pointed out that people in Turkey still go and see Ataturk's body in its memorial tomb. "Yes," she replied, "but we don't queue for it!"

    To which I replied: "I bet they did immediately after he died!"

    And a quick Google shows that I was correct:
    https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/in-pictures-how-turkey-mourned-the-loss-of-its-founding-father-ataturk-51523
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk

    I bet there's loads of other examples as well. I see Nasser's funeral procession was attended by five million Egyptians! Perhaps there's something innate in Human nature to mourn the passing of great and positive (to us!) figures we never met?

    Overused as the word often is, I think it is probably a bit of exceptionalism. People assume that anything we are doing now must be unique in some way, unusal even..

    I recall a novel once set from Wellington's perspective, reflecting on the public reaction to Nelson dying. Now that was in the middle of an heroic victory, but people still mourne figures they've never met. It brings people together.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,310

    As an aside, Mrs J (not a royalist) made a comment about how ridiculous the queuing to see the queen is.

    So I pointed out that people in Turkey still go and see Ataturk's body in its memorial tomb. "Yes," she replied, "but we don't queue for it!"

    To which I replied: "I bet they did immediately after he died!"

    And a quick Google shows that I was correct:
    https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/in-pictures-how-turkey-mourned-the-loss-of-its-founding-father-ataturk-51523
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk

    I bet there's loads of other examples as well. I see Nasser's funeral procession was attended by five million Egyptians! Perhaps there's something innate in Human nature to mourn the passing of great and positive (to us!) figures we never met?

    History is full of vast crowds attending funerals of great leaders and notable individuals. In fact, the absence of such crowds at such an event is comment worthy.
    It’s the coronation that’s going to be interesting - particularly if we have an economically painful winter.

    Many of the people who have shown respect for the Queen and her service may feel very differently watching a hugely expensive pantomime if they and their families have experienced hardship between now and then.
    Oh for goodness sake what whinging bores. Nobody under 75 in the UK will have been alive at or have any memory of a coronation.

    It will be a magnificent occasion and spectacle even if not quite as grand as 1952 and a great way to cheer us up and welcome Spring after a likely miserable winter. I will certainly be going up to cheer King Charles and the Queen Consort!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,310

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    You work for the press?
    Like I said, right-wing luvvie.

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    Part of me wanted to go and join the queen queue, but my life needed to go on: I couldn't drop everything and get down to London for what would probably have been at least 24 hours (including travel). So I did an 11-mile run this morning, and got some spiritual uplift from that. I didn't get laid during the run though... ;)

    I'm actually finding the TV coverage surprisingly moving. The little 'un's got a friend coming around for a playdate during the funeral tomorrow, so I might hide myself in the study to watch it.
    That's fine mate. I just expect a bit more from the likes of @Leon who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk and, secondly, we'll all now have to endure years of him recanting his regret about not joining The Queue because he couldn't be bothered.

    He hasn't worked out that the best rewards in life don't come from the self-indulgence seeking of pleasure for oneself but through serving others in a greater cause and, uniquely for HMQ given her sense of duty, you have to show yours too through the tenacity of The Queue to really understand and connect with her.

    I'm hard on him because I expect better of him and I'm trying to chip him in the right direction. For his own sake.
    Yeah, I agree wrt Leon. The way I see it about my own situation: the Queen was all about duty. And my duty at the moment is looking after an 8-year old boy. I think she'd understand.

    And no, I wouldn't want to take him. He's sad by her passing, but would hate queuing for many hours, and showed zero interest in it.
    Though there were plenty of kids with parents in the queue last night
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916

    Leon said:

    Let’s face it, who here would actually DO THE SMELLY QUEUE with all the weird royalist proles, and sad lonely Remoaners, if you could just nip down to Westminster, say, “Ooh look at that long queue”, then flash your press card at the back, nip in to see her Maj, then rock down the Groucho Club for Sunday lunch with your photographer friend who is also covering the funeral for Stern magazine?

    Who amongst us would actually prefer THE QUEUE?

    Me.
    Great. You queued for 12 hours and it was a spiritual experience. And you wrote about it touchingly. Good for you

    I can’t be arsed to do all that - I get my spiritual experiences from ayahuasca these days - so I’m gonna queue for about 3 minutes at the VIP door. As I am legally entitled to do because i am more important than you. More like royalty, say

    But I will still get to see Her Maj AND have time for lunch

    So we’re all happy. The social hierarchy is preserved. What’s the problem?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243

    As an aside, Mrs J (not a royalist) made a comment about how ridiculous the queuing to see the queen is.

    So I pointed out that people in Turkey still go and see Ataturk's body in its memorial tomb. "Yes," she replied, "but we don't queue for it!"

    To which I replied: "I bet they did immediately after he died!"

    And a quick Google shows that I was correct:
    https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/in-pictures-how-turkey-mourned-the-loss-of-its-founding-father-ataturk-51523
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk

    I bet there's loads of other examples as well. I see Nasser's funeral procession was attended by five million Egyptians! Perhaps there's something innate in Human nature to mourn the passing of great and positive (to us!) figures we never met?

    History is full of vast crowds attending funerals of great leaders and notable individuals. In fact, the absence of such crowds at such an event is comment worthy.
    It’s the coronation that’s going to be interesting - particularly if we have an economically painful winter.

    Many of the people who have shown respect for the Queen and her service may feel very differently watching a hugely expensive pantomime if they and their families have experienced hardship between now and then.
    Apparently King Chazbo is planning a very scaled-down coronation, or at least compared to the last one, and which I agree with him on.

    A lot of the very summit of the pageantry will still be there, but the numbers of bit players, and casts of extra thousands, will be scaled back. From Cecil B. Demille and a cast of millions, to Yiorgos Lanthimos and The Favourite.
    If oaths of allegiance were restricted to the Prince of Wales on behalf of the Royals, the Earl Marshall on behalf of Parliament and the ABC on behalf of the Church that would also solve the Andrew problem…
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 43,514

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    You work for the press?
    Like I said, right-wing luvvie.

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    Part of me wanted to go and join the queen queue, but my life needed to go on: I couldn't drop everything and get down to London for what would probably have been at least 24 hours (including travel). So I did an 11-mile run this morning, and got some spiritual uplift from that. I didn't get laid during the run though... ;)

    I'm actually finding the TV coverage surprisingly moving. The little 'un's got a friend coming around for a playdate during the funeral tomorrow, so I might hide myself in the study to watch it.
    (SNIP)

    He hasn't worked out that the best rewards in life don't come from the self-indulgence seeking of pleasure for oneself but through serving others in a greater cause and, uniquely for HMQ given her sense of duty, you have to show yours too through the tenacity of The Queue to really understand and connect with her.

    I agree, true satisfaction in life comes from service to others, and treating them with respect.

    Indeed I may have some further thoughts on this later.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,004
    Leon said:

    Let’s face it, who here would actually DO THE SMELLY QUEUE with all the weird royalist proles, and sad lonely Remoaners, if you could just nip down to Westminster, say, “Ooh look at that long queue”, then flash your press card at the back, nip in to see her Maj, then rock down the Groucho Club for Sunday lunch with your photographer friend who is also covering the funeral for Stern magazine?

    Who amongst us would actually prefer THE QUEUE?

    VIPs is a thing. Use it if you got it I say.

    I see the BBC spoke to a crowd science expert who helped plan the queue, and I enjoyed the point about the VIP lanes. For reasons of perceived fairness you need them to be separate.

    Perceived fairness is also important, with VIP lanes visually separate so it does not appear someone has just turned up and walked straight through.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62930775
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,310
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    As an aside, Mrs J (not a royalist) made a comment about how ridiculous the queuing to see the queen is.

    So I pointed out that people in Turkey still go and see Ataturk's body in its memorial tomb. "Yes," she replied, "but we don't queue for it!"

    To which I replied: "I bet they did immediately after he died!"

    And a quick Google shows that I was correct:
    https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/in-pictures-how-turkey-mourned-the-loss-of-its-founding-father-ataturk-51523
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk

    I bet there's loads of other examples as well. I see Nasser's funeral procession was attended by five million Egyptians! Perhaps there's something innate in Human nature to mourn the passing of great and positive (to us!) figures we never met?

    Try the Ayatollah Khomeini. A new experience of "open casket".

    The crowd, much of it made up of Revolutionary Guards detailed to maintain order, pulled the coffin from the helicopter and began parading it around the makeshift compound surrounding the gravesite. As the excitement grew, the body of the Ayatollah, wrapped in a white burial shroud, fell out of the flimsy wooden coffin, and in a mad scene people in the crowd reached to touch the shroud. The soldiers pushed and wrestled, finally firing warning shots, to get the body back. Ayatollah Khomeini's son, Ahmad, was knocked from his feet. But even as the soldiers pushed the body back into the helicopter, the crowd swarmed over the craft, dragging it back down as it tried to take off. Others jumped into the hole dug for the Ayatollah's body. The troops drove the crowd back, finally clearing the compound enough to allow the helicopter to take off, its rotors scattering more mourners.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Ruhollah_Khomeini
    Virtually all US Presidents lie in State on the Rotunda of the US Capitol.

    Most French Presidents too, thousands went to see Chirac lying in state in 2019 for instance

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0D5Ga5k0kac
    Interesting given that Chirac was a) very unpopular and b) a corrupt politician who had been sentenced to 2 years in prison.

    Either respecting the office or making sure he was dead :wink: .

    I was interested that de Gaulle tried to insist on a modest funeral.
    Chirac was quite popular for keeping France out of the Iraq war and was very charismatic.

    The French tend to expect their Presidents will be corrupt adulterers anyway, the Queen wasn't hence her queue was rather bigger than his was
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650
    Leon said:

    Let’s face it, who here would actually DO THE SMELLY QUEUE with all the weird royalist proles, and sad lonely Remoaners, if you could just nip down to Westminster, say, “Ooh look at that long queue”, then flash your press card at the back, nip in to see her Maj, then rock down the Groucho Club for Sunday lunch with your photographer friend who is also covering the funeral for Stern magazine?

    Who amongst us would actually prefer THE QUEUE?

    The shame Leon, the shame. It will come unannounced and overwhelm you. Penitent and sobbing but smaller, bereft, a man lacking. The echo of your strangled, haunted cries never enough to fill the hollow. Not quite too late....... run Leon! Be the fag end of the queue and embrace your ordinariness.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,004
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    You work for the press?
    Like I said, right-wing luvvie.

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    Part of me wanted to go and join the queen queue, but my life needed to go on: I couldn't drop everything and get down to London for what would probably have been at least 24 hours (including travel). So I did an 11-mile run this morning, and got some spiritual uplift from that. I didn't get laid during the run though... ;)

    I'm actually finding the TV coverage surprisingly moving. The little 'un's got a friend coming around for a playdate during the funeral tomorrow, so I might hide myself in the study to watch it.
    (SNIP)

    He hasn't worked out that the best rewards in life don't come from the self-indulgence seeking of pleasure for oneself but through serving others in a greater cause and, uniquely for HMQ given her sense of duty, you have to show yours too through the tenacity of The Queue to really understand and connect with her.

    I agree, true satisfaction in life comes from service to others, and treating them with respect.

    Indeed I may have some further thoughts on this later.
    Whilst I would in general agree, people can find satisfaction in different ways. Who is to say someone finding theirs in a different way is not finding 'true' satisfaction?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,351
    edited September 2022
    Leon said:

    Let’s face it, who here would actually DO THE SMELLY QUEUE with all the weird royalist proles, and sad lonely Remoaners, if you could just nip down to Westminster, say, “Ooh look at that long queue”, then flash your press card at the back, nip in to see her Maj, then rock down the Groucho Club for Sunday lunch with your photographer friend who is also covering the funeral for Stern magazine?

    Who amongst us would actually prefer THE QUEUE?

    It's not for me, but I can understand the pleasure and satisfaction you get out of queueing for the experience. If it is easy you don't get the same satisfaction. The pleasure will be looking back at the time in the queue and then finally experiencing the final event.

    It is not the same, but for me doing scary stuf is the same. When I skied the Tortin the greatest pleasure was looking back at what I had done. Doing it was scary and hard work, but I can now look back at a memorable event. Similarly pitchpoling a catamaran while on a trapeze.

    The more you put into it the more you get out of it.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,768
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of exciting new politics, here’s a BBC report on the unrest in Leicester

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-62943952

    It’s impressive journalism because it manages to go the whole length of the article without mentioning that it’s Hindi v Muslim rioting. It does mention the
    “India V Pakistan” cricket match, so the casual reader might think people are unhappy about the LBW rule

    Presumably this is deliberate so as to “not inflame tensions” but it looks ridiculous and devious

    That would be too blunt for the BBC.
    This is what seems to have set it off yesterday, after a week of calm and multiple arrests of people identified at the previous post cricket events.

    https://twitter.com/JanKhan20104863/status/1571312691897307136?t=UNiZh9OAK_RX1bjsvVqO0A&s=19

    The Hindu nationalists marched through Green Lane (a mixed mainly Muslim/Hindu/Sikh shopping street) chanting "Jai Srirama" (victory to Lord Rama) amongst other slogans. This was clearly organised as there was it seems a coach up from London, though caught the Police by surprise.

    In response to untrue Social Media rumours of an attack on the nearby Masjid, Muslims rallied to oppose the Hindus, and there was a further confrontation on the mainly Hindu Belgrave/Melton rd area, including removing a flag from a temple.

    https://twitter.com/kevlondon4/status/1571288100424372224?t=KplTpqIVtSHFfq-BYyWzug&s=19

    Police were caught unawares, but do seem to have kept it under control by and large, and I expect further arrests will follow.
    Poignant tribute to the queen in the form of post-colonial divide and conquer. It's what she would have wanted.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,695
    Meanwhile Super Typhoon has made landfall in Japan.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/18/japan-typhoon-landfall-special-warning

    They are scary things to live through indeed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,916
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    You work for the press?
    Like I said, right-wing luvvie.

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    Part of me wanted to go and join the queen queue, but my life needed to go on: I couldn't drop everything and get down to London for what would probably have been at least 24 hours (including travel). So I did an 11-mile run this morning, and got some spiritual uplift from that. I didn't get laid during the run though... ;)

    I'm actually finding the TV coverage surprisingly moving. The little 'un's got a friend coming around for a playdate during the funeral tomorrow, so I might hide myself in the study to watch it.
    (SNIP)

    He hasn't worked out that the best rewards in life don't come from the self-indulgence seeking of pleasure for oneself but through serving others in a greater cause and, uniquely for HMQ given her sense of duty, you have to show yours too through the tenacity of The Queue to really understand and connect with her.

    I agree, true satisfaction in life comes from service to others, and treating them with respect.

    Indeed I may have some further thoughts on this later.
    I, for one, cannot wait to hear the thoughts of a semi retired suburban doctor near Leicester

    Indeed, as the most important person on this site, THE MIGHTY LEON, I demand special early VIP access to your essay, so I can get my scornful laughter in before supper
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm a bit lost @Leon. Have you avoided the Queue by getting some kind of VIP pass or have you just decided against joining the queue?

    I am drawing a polite veil so @Casino_Royale doesn’t have conniptions
    You might have met someone and got laid if you'd joined The Queue. You could also have had a deep, profound and levelling experience with a small random handful your fellow subjects that would have lasted a lifetime. It would have been deeply moving.

    And yet, now, you'll be tapping into your laptop at home, alone, and doing nothing more than arguing with @Mexicanpete with an expensive wine. But you didn't because you're all fart and no follow-through, and simply couldn't be arsed.

    Shame.
    You don’t know what I’m doing, eejit

    Then tell us
    I will probably skip the queue with my press card. Because the queue is for plebs
    You work for the press?
    I work mainly in the field of knapping artisanal lithic sex toys, as any fule know.

    I have a 2nd job as a roving reporter for the Knapper’s Gazette, where I go to foreign parts and discuss the stimulant potential of their basalt, and so forth

    I do wonder if any of Dr Foxy's surgical colleagues have ever had to extract one of your products from where the sun don't shine.
  • This is a really interesting thread header, thanks James for writing it. I wonder what differentiates the rural wards that the Tories held from the ones they lost?

    Thanks, and I wish I knew the answer to your question! I do think people not directly involved in local politics underestimate the effect of having one or two effective, energetic people turn up - my old rule of thumb was that three active people could win a ward from nothing in an cycle.
    There may be an element in demographics too - if I had the time I might think about digging into that. I'll hopefully get TSE to post an update to this in late Dec or early Jan, and if the pattern continues, I might be persuaded to work on the demographics.
    Of course, there may be local issues too - a planned housing development, problems at the council offices, etc..
This discussion has been closed.