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Can Liz Truss turn this round? – politicalbetting.com

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  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,643
    edited September 2022
    Also, the SE isn’t unique.

    I just did the maths.
    The Greater New York “MSA”, which I think is a decent proxy for England’s South East is more densely populated.

    That’s true of both the City bit (five boroughs) AND the non-City bit.

    Yet you can pick up large, attractive, family homes in Montclair, New Jersey - about an hour’s commute - for less than $1m.

    Homes that would cost about £1.5m in an English equivalent.

    I an certainly not arguing that New York has it all solved, but something is deeply, deeply fucked in the UK housing market.
  • kinabalu said:

    Not sure that headline comes across quite the way the Express intended. Great that Unionist cowards & hypocrites (which is not all Unionists I hasten to add, but over represented here) have a policy to make their hearts beat faster tho'.

    I haven't actually done the sums - and I might be being misled by the prolificity of one particular construct - but my sense is that the Unionists on PB who are most opposed to a SindyRef2 are of a Leaver persuasion. Which if true is quite interesting.
    Well yes, they certainly put the h into cowards and hypocrites.
  • MattW said:

    My family home in London is a mid-Victorian three story semi in Hackney. It is not listed, although it is in a conservation area.

    According to Google Maps’ ruler function it is only a mile from the City of London, probably the densest pool of jobs in Europe.

    Yet to densify - even in a style respectful of the Victorian vernacular - would be near impossible, I reckon.

    Serious question - how many similar places in the road have been converted to flats?

    Three storey could usually be 3 x 1/2 bed flats or 1 flat plus a duplex flat over. Which is two or three couples/young or older families. Or a mansard storey.

    One other issue is that we have a *lot* of under-occupation of large houses. I was looking up the numbers earlier for elsewhere, and in England there are 9 million households with 2 or more spare bedrooms - a crude stat but it suggests an increased emphasis on rent-a-room and encouraging eg older singles to share houses.

    Or one could follow the model of much of postwar London, and rebuild the area from scratch. The Borough of Camden formed in 1965, for example, did a lot of very innovative public housing on large sites.
    Of course most of them are flats.
    That enables new households, of course, but doesn’t provide them more “space”.

    People suggest a new town is in order.

    I agree, but it should be in London, which is not actually very dense.

    My house is in Hackney, allegedly the second densest borough in Britain. Full of two storey houses from the Victorian era onwards, and generously endowed with back gardens and parkland.
    Population of Hackney borough:

    1981 179k
    1991 187k
    2001 202k
    2011 246k
    2019 281k

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Hackney#Demography

    A new town's worth of people has already been added to Hackney alone and similarly with many other London boroughs.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,230
    edited September 2022
    Can anyone give me a quick catch-up on the GP? I’m finding the BBC blog hard to parse.

    EDIT: Morris beat me to it!
  • Also, the SE isn’t unique.

    I just did the maths.
    The Greater New York “MSA”, which I think is a decent proxy for England’s South East is more densely populated.

    That’s true of both the City bit (five boroughs) AND the non-City bit.

    Yet you can pick up large, attractive, family homes in Montclair, New Jersey - about an hour’s commute - for less than $1m.

    Homes that would cost about £1.5m in an English equivalent.

    I an certainly not arguing that New York has it all solved, but something is deeply, deeply fucked in the UK housing market.

    Phew, at least you didn't do the math. Stay strong!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 11,241
    edited September 2022
    I was behind someone at a self-checkout earlier this afternoon who walked off with their shopping without paying the requested £99.19 for it. Was a bit weird, they put their card in to the machine a couple of times, but then seemed to give up and just left.

    Was expecting sirens to sound, automatic shutters to come down, etc, but the staff weren't particularly fazed.

    I wonder if his cards were declined? One factor in food price inflation is likely to be an increase in this type of loss to the supermarkets.
  • Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Other than the colour red I'm failing to see the connection. But isn't red the colour of communism anyway? So perhaps it is a massive error after all because it makes Biden look like a commie bastard.
  • A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?
  • Also, the SE isn’t unique.

    I just did the maths.
    The Greater New York “MSA”, which I think is a decent proxy for England’s South East is more densely populated.

    That’s true of both the City bit (five boroughs) AND the non-City bit.

    Yet you can pick up large, attractive, family homes in Montclair, New Jersey - about an hour’s commute - for less than $1m.

    Homes that would cost about £1.5m in an English equivalent.

    I an certainly not arguing that New York has it all solved, but something is deeply, deeply fucked in the UK housing market.

    Having seen these case studyettes;

    https://www.centreforcities.org/story/mapping-the-30-minute-city/

    Can't escape the feeling that the UK is doing something unusual and not to its overall advantage. But heaven only knows how you fix it.
  • Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    Increasingly common here too. PB regularly sends up the number of "flegs" behind Starmer in particular but they are all at it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Other than the colour red I'm failing to see the connection. But isn't red the colour of communism anyway? So perhaps it is a massive error after all because it makes Biden look like a commie bastard.
    Look at the Geldof photo. That’s the movie director going for a fascist “feel”. Deep dark red, heavy flags, bombastic Roman architecture, military men standing erect


    These are fascist motifs without a doubt, which is why artists employ them when they want to go for a fascist aesthetic
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,949
    edited September 2022

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    Council tax is often less than the US equivalent aiui (another fop to the rich?).

    ETA London suburbs around £2 million for 3,000+ square feet?
  • I was behind someone at a self-checkout earlier this afternoon who walked off with their shopping without paying the requested £99.19 for it. Was a bit weird, they put their card in to the machine a couple of times, but then seemed to give up and just left.

    Was expecting sirens to sound, automatic shutters to come down, etc, but the staff weren't particularly fazed.

    I wonder if his cards were declined? One factor in food price inflation is likely to be an increase in this type of loss to the supermarkets.

    I noticed after one weekend in July my local tesco had installed rather sturdy turnstiles at the checkouts and entrance. I suspect they were anticipating possible issues this autumn with shoppers.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,230

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    I know that 600k will just about get you an unmodernised 2 bed semi in Epping Forest.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836

    Also, the SE isn’t unique.

    I just did the maths.
    The Greater New York “MSA”, which I think is a decent proxy for England’s South East is more densely populated.

    That’s true of both the City bit (five boroughs) AND the non-City bit.

    Yet you can pick up large, attractive, family homes in Montclair, New Jersey - about an hour’s commute - for less than $1m.

    Homes that would cost about £1.5m in an English equivalent.

    I an certainly not arguing that New York has it all solved, but something is deeply, deeply fucked in the UK housing market.

    Having seen these case studyettes;

    https://www.centreforcities.org/story/mapping-the-30-minute-city/

    Can't escape the feeling that the UK is doing something unusual and not to its overall advantage. But heaven only knows how you fix it.
    They do make recommendations -

    "To improve public transport in our cities and help them compete with their European counterparts the Government should:

    Continue to invest in new transport infrastructure in city regions where it is needed.

    Give all combined authorities powers over local bus franchises to set and control bus fares, frequencies and timetables, and specify bus networks. Much like in London and, more recently, Greater Manchester.

    Reform the planning system to make it easier to build midrise new neighbourhoods in well-connected suburbs.

    Encourage councils to release small areas of greenbelt land around stations for development and implement Local Development Orders – a little used tool to get more homes built."
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,230

    I was behind someone at a self-checkout earlier this afternoon who walked off with their shopping without paying the requested £99.19 for it. Was a bit weird, they put their card in to the machine a couple of times, but then seemed to give up and just left.

    Was expecting sirens to sound, automatic shutters to come down, etc, but the staff weren't particularly fazed.

    I wonder if his cards were declined? One factor in food price inflation is likely to be an increase in this type of loss to the supermarkets.

    I noticed after one weekend in July my local tesco had installed rather sturdy turnstiles at the checkouts and entrance. I suspect they were anticipating possible issues this autumn with shoppers.
    I imagine the staff are feeling the same sting and probably don’t give a shit. Plus, generally, staff are told NOT to confront shoplifters. We were explicitly told to hit the alert button on the cash register and await security.
  • FF43 said:

    FF43 said:



    All armchair and no general, but let me wade in with my random thoughts.

    1. Ukraine has a good chance, I suspect, of pushing the Russians off the right bank of the Dnipro. Pushing them out of southern Ukraine with or without Crimea would be hard; pushing them out of Donbas very hard.
    2. Ukraine probably won't win with sheer force of arms. They could on the other hand make the cost of Russia's occupation too high for them to be willing to pay. Unfortunately this could take years with immense damage to Ukraine (also to Russia but we don't care about them).
    3. Given Ukraine's objectives are to get the Russians out of their country, leave them alone and never come back, Ukraine has little incentive to stop fighting short of outright defeat.
    4. NATO countries will probably continue to support Ukraine. They prefer Ukraine to fight Russia, instead of themselves.
    5. The apparent outline of a deal is Russia keeps Crimea but exits from elsewhere in southern Ukraine. Donbas is up for negotiations: (a) pre-2014 borders; (b) pre-2022 borders; (c) 2022 borders plus token extra, say Mariupol; (d) all of currently occupied East Ukraine.
    6. In the case of a deal, neither side will probably directly agree to the other's asks, but will allow a process take over that implies that outcome
    7. My guess is that the current news blackout in Kherson is because Ukraine is taking considerable casualties, but not necessarily failing in its objectives. Pure guess however.
    Russia keeping Crimea is problematic for several reasons.

    *) It is a very strategic location, and highly valuable militarily.
    *) It is acknowledged Ukrainian territory gained by Russia via force of arms in 2014.
    *) Russia used this territory to invade Ukraine. Their keeping the territory opens a large second front Ukraine will have to defend. But the same is not true in reverse; without the Kerch bridge, it is harder to 'invade' Russia from Crimea.
    *) Crimea is marginal land; dependent on water from Ukraine. AS was shown post-2014, this is a major source of conflict between a Russian-occupied Crimea and Ukraine, and an obvious cause of future flare-ups.
    *) Morally, why the f*** should they keep their spoils?

    Basically: if Russia keeps Crimea in any 'peace' deal, they will try for Ukraine again within a decade.
    Maybe. Some counter-arguments are
    1. Russia is highly unlikely to agree a deal that doesn't include Crimea, which means the war drags on to the huge detriment of Ukraine. The key is to get Russia to concede everything else to keep Crimea.
    2. Crimea was one of the few places in the pre-2014 Ukraine that supported Russia outright. The referendum may have been bogus but it probably reflected most people's views. They probably don't want to be part of Ukraine.
    3. Russian occupation of Crimea [edit] gives Ukraine leverage due to the difficulty of supply. If Ukraine occupies it, Russia gets that leverage.
    Russia does not get that leverage, because Crimea has a land border with Ukraine, and only a water border with Russia (without the Kerch Bridge). The leverage is plain and simply over water.

    The Donbass is going to be a sh*tshow for decades. The 'separatists' have run a sickening regime (cheered on by lovely people like Dempsey from the RMT's leadership), and is going to need massive investment. I'd argue it the other way: let Russia keep the Donbass to the 2021 borders, and Ukraine gets Crimea. ;)

    Most of all: I don't want to see Russia being able to claim a victory over this: andkeeping Crimea would be spun as a 'victory' (albeit a pyrrhic one). Losing Crimea would be a massive warning to other states that territorial land grabs might not be worth the effort...
    Don’t forget the offshore gas fields to the west of Crimea - that was the reason for the original invasion (Russia didn’t want Europe to have a significant source of gas that it didn’t control)
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,604
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Other than the colour red I'm failing to see the connection. But isn't red the colour of communism anyway? So perhaps it is a massive error after all because it makes Biden look like a commie bastard.
    Look at the Geldof photo. That’s the movie director going for a fascist “feel”. Deep dark red, heavy flags, bombastic Roman architecture, military men standing erect


    These are fascist motifs without a doubt, which is why artists employ them when they want to go for a fascist aesthetic
    Fasces (from where the word derives) feature prominently on the seal of the US Senate and either side of the Speaker’s rostrum in the House of Representatives. Much of Leni Riefenstahl‘s work, from whence we get much of our idea of the Nazi aesthetic, was ultimately influenced by Classical Hollywood.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,604
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Other than the colour red I'm failing to see the connection. But isn't red the colour of communism anyway? So perhaps it is a massive error after all because it makes Biden look like a commie bastard.
    Look at the Geldof photo. That’s the movie director going for a fascist “feel”. Deep dark red, heavy flags, bombastic Roman architecture, military men standing erect


    These are fascist motifs without a doubt, which is why artists employ them when they want to go for a fascist aesthetic
    Fasces (from where the word derives) feature prominently on the seal of the US Senate and either side of the Speaker’s rostrum in the House of Representatives. Much of Leni Riefenstahl‘s work, from whence we get much of our idea of the Nazi aesthetic, was ultimately influenced by Classical Hollywood.

    Indeed Leni Riefenstahl influenced the final scene of the first Star Wars movie so things do come full circle

  • carnforth said:

    Off Topic

    I notice that there were 6 hour queues at Calais yesterday. Those annoying French Border agents again....oops sorry, British.

    Nice of your side to finally admit it is due to a lack of border agents on duty.
    It was obviously a lack of border agents on duty last time because they were stuck in the tunnel on a train.

    Perhaps the British ones were as well.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Other than the colour red I'm failing to see the connection. But isn't red the colour of communism anyway? So perhaps it is a massive error after all because it makes Biden look like a commie bastard.
    Look at the Geldof photo. That’s the movie director going for a fascist “feel”. Deep dark red, heavy flags, bombastic Roman architecture, military men standing erect


    These are fascist motifs without a doubt, which is why artists employ them when they want to go for a fascist aesthetic
    Fasces (from where the word derives) feature prominently on the seal of the US Senate and either side of the Speaker’s rostrum in the House of Representatives. Much of Leni Riefenstahl‘s work, from whence we get much of our idea of the Nazi aesthetic, was ultimately influenced by Classical Hollywood.

    The fasces, of course, being carried by the attendants of the magistrates of the Roman Republic (including Vestal Virgins). And look where the US Senate gets its name from. The US Republic wasn't designed as a fascist dictatorship.
  • mhartmhart Posts: 15
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Other than the colour red I'm failing to see the connection. But isn't red the colour of communism anyway? So perhaps it is a massive error after all because it makes Biden look like a commie bastard.
    Look at the Geldof photo. That’s the movie director going for a fascist “feel”. Deep dark red, heavy flags, bombastic Roman architecture, military men standing erect


    These are fascist motifs without a doubt, which is why artists employ them when they want to go for a fascist aesthetic
    Well it was a divisive speech anyway...sadly so. It will only inflame the maga crowd
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 14,025

    Wow.

    Paul Brand
    @PaulBrandITV
    ·
    12m
    Liz Truss says “it is fair” that her national insurance cut will benefit the richest to the tune of about £2k and do relatively little for the lowest paid. She argues there has been too much focus on the distribution of income in the past twenty years.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1566339080312406017

    This bugging me. The UK has one of the most unequal societies in Europe. Surely there hasn't been nearly enough focus on the distribution of income?

    Absolute nonsense from Truss.
  • mhartmhart Posts: 15

    I was behind someone at a self-checkout earlier this afternoon who walked off with their shopping without paying the requested £99.19 for it. Was a bit weird, they put their card in to the machine a couple of times, but then seemed to give up and just left.

    Was expecting sirens to sound, automatic shutters to come down, etc, but the staff weren't particularly fazed.

    I wonder if his cards were declined? One factor in food price inflation is likely to be an increase in this type of loss to the supermarkets.

    Also think a lot of those plastic bags are likely been stolen now
  • OnboardG1 said:

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    I know that 600k will just about get you an unmodernised 2 bed semi in Epping Forest.
    I'm from New Jersey. You also have to look at this in the context that property taxes there (the equivalent of council tax) are incredibly high.

    The interent says the average property tax in Montclair is around twenty grand a year. That sounds very plausible.
  • mhartmhart Posts: 15

    Also, the SE isn’t unique.

    I just did the maths.
    The Greater New York “MSA”, which I think is a decent proxy for England’s South East is more densely populated.

    That’s true of both the City bit (five boroughs) AND the non-City bit.

    Yet you can pick up large, attractive, family homes in Montclair, New Jersey - about an hour’s commute - for less than $1m.

    Homes that would cost about £1.5m in an English equivalent.

    I an certainly not arguing that New York has it all solved, but something is deeply, deeply fucked in the UK housing market.

    Having seen these case studyettes;

    https://www.centreforcities.org/story/mapping-the-30-minute-city/

    Can't escape the feeling that the UK is doing something unusual and not to its overall advantage. But heaven only knows how you fix it.
    To be fair us home prices were allowed to crash in 2008...the uks werent
  • A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    Council tax is often less than the US equivalent aiui (another fop to the rich?).

    ETA London suburbs around £2 million for 3,000+ square feet?
    I think it's quite complicated in the US. They have 3 levels of tax normally, federal, state and county/City. It depends who's providing the services.
  • New Jersey is not as expensive as

    OnboardG1 said:

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    I know that 600k will just about get you an unmodernised 2 bed semi in Epping Forest.
    I'm from New Jersey. You also have to look at this in the context that property taxes there (the equivalent of council tax) are incredibly high.

    The interent says the average property tax in Montclair is around twenty grand a year. That sounds very plausible.
    That’s not *that* much more than council tax.
    What’s the top rate in Tandridge District, Kent?
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    Russia has called a meeting of the members of the Biological Weapons Convention, where it will accuse the US and Ukraine of violating the treaty. They have also said that the US plan to increase its number of biological stations in Europe is a threat to Russian military security.

    In other news, China has locked down more than 20 million people in Chengdu.

    One can understand people flocking to Luton airport to go on foreign holidays now while they've still got the chance...adding to their debt maybe but what the hell.
  • New Jersey is not as expensive as

    OnboardG1 said:

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    I know that 600k will just about get you an unmodernised 2 bed semi in Epping Forest.
    I'm from New Jersey. You also have to look at this in the context that property taxes there (the equivalent of council tax) are incredibly high.

    The interent says the average property tax in Montclair is around twenty grand a year. That sounds very plausible.
    That’s not *that* much more than council tax.
    What’s the top rate in Tandridge District, Kent?
    About £4500. But energy is cheaper and income taxes lower.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,666

    OnboardG1 said:

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    I know that 600k will just about get you an unmodernised 2 bed semi in Epping Forest.
    I'm from New Jersey. You also have to look at this in the context that property taxes there (the equivalent of council tax) are incredibly high.

    The interent says the average property tax in Montclair is around twenty grand a year. That sounds very plausible.
    Exactly.

    If you decide that taxing primary residences cannot be done... then don't be surprised when people invest more and more into buying a house! If you then offer subsidies and help to people buying houses, prices will go even higher.

    Switching to US-style property taxes or a land value tax would help significantly with the housing crisis by encouraging better use of land, more density of housing, people to downsize earlier.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Other than the colour red I'm failing to see the connection. But isn't red the colour of communism anyway? So perhaps it is a massive error after all because it makes Biden look like a commie bastard.
    Look at the Geldof photo. That’s the movie director going for a fascist “feel”. Deep dark red, heavy flags, bombastic Roman architecture, military men standing erect


    These are fascist motifs without a doubt, which is why artists employ them when they want to go for a fascist aesthetic
    Fasces (from where the word derives) feature prominently on the seal of the US Senate and either side of the Speaker’s rostrum in the House of Representatives. Much of Leni Riefenstahl‘s work, from whence we get much of our idea of the Nazi aesthetic, was ultimately influenced by Classical Hollywood.

    image

    ^ This is just natural order though.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/04/it-was-a-brexit-export-champion-now-kent-brewery-has-one-eu-customer-left

    'A Kent brewery chosen to help champion export opportunities for the government after Brexit has revealed that burdensome customs checks and paperwork have left it with just one remaining customer in the EU.

    The Old Dairy Brewery in Kent – a Department for International Trade export champion for the south-east – appeared in a government video last year promoting the potential to boost Brexit export sales.

    However its exports of bottled and keg Kent ale to countries including Italy, Germany and Sweden have slumped since the UK left the EU because of the onerous paperwork.'
  • Pompous types losing their shit over Joe Lycett not taking the new Kuenssberg vehicle seriously is very funny. Apparently after years of Farage, the FLSOJ, Nads, JRM etc being platformed and promoted by these self same types, we should not be taking the piss out of politics.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 8,345
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    You will be comparing the Last Night of the Proms to the Nuremberg Rally next
  • mhartmhart Posts: 15
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    You will be comparing the Last Night of the Proms to the Nuremberg Rally next
    You are right Leon but people don't want to see
  • mhartmhart Posts: 15
    Dynamo said:

    Russia has called a meeting of the members of the Biological Weapons Convention, where it will accuse the US and Ukraine of violating the treaty. They have also said that the US plan to increase its number of biological stations in Europe is a threat to Russian military security.

    In other news, China has locked down more than 20 million people in Chengdu.

    One can understand people flocking to Luton airport to go on foreign holidays now while they've still got the chance...adding to their debt maybe but what the hell.

    Yes must admit I've partied and holidayed a lot this summer...but thats over now....serious times coming
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Pompous types losing their shit over Joe Lycett not taking the new Kuenssberg vehicle seriously is very funny. Apparently after years of Farage, the FLSOJ, Nads, JRM etc being platformed and promoted by these self same types, we should not be taking the piss out of politics.

    Is that post meta enough, though? Who the fuck is Joe lycett anyway?
  • Don't think this has been posted so far : https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62788447

    "Germany announces €65bn package to curb soaring energy costs

    ... Mr Scholz told journalists Germany would get through the winter, adding that Russia was "no longer a reliable energy partner".

    He said the government would make one-off payments to pensioners, people on benefits and students. There would also be caps on energy bills.

    Some 9,000 energy-intensive businesses would receive tax breaks to the tune of €1.7bn.

    A windfall tax on energy company profits would also be used to mitigate bills, Mr Scholz said."
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,576
    mhart said:

    Dynamo said:

    Russia has called a meeting of the members of the Biological Weapons Convention, where it will accuse the US and Ukraine of violating the treaty. They have also said that the US plan to increase its number of biological stations in Europe is a threat to Russian military security.

    In other news, China has locked down more than 20 million people in Chengdu.

    One can understand people flocking to Luton airport to go on foreign holidays now while they've still got the chance...adding to their debt maybe but what the hell.

    Yes must admit I've partied and holidayed a lot this summer...but thats over now....serious times coming
    Surely not a new ID coming? No full stops, a dead giveaway
  • mhartmhart Posts: 15
    rkrkrk said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    I know that 600k will just about get you an unmodernised 2 bed semi in Epping Forest.
    I'm from New Jersey. You also have to look at this in the context that property taxes there (the equivalent of council tax) are incredibly high.

    The interent says the average property tax in Montclair is around twenty grand a year. That sounds very plausible.
    Exactly.

    If you decide that taxing primary residences cannot be done... then don't be surprised when people invest more and more into buying a house! If you then offer subsidies and help to people buying houses, prices will go even higher.

    Switching to US-style property taxes or a land value tax would help significantly with the housing crisis by encouraging better use of land, more density of housing, people to downsize earlier.
    If interest rates rocket higher causing house prices to crash the housing crisis is sorted...pain for those with a mortgage but probably the only way this is sorted out
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,154

    MattW said:

    BigRich said:

    BigRich said:

    The problem isn’t that income taxes are too high, although they are, in relation to wealth taxes at least.

    The problem is housing.

    Even stratospheric incomes don’t get you very far in London, and therefore middle class ambition is vanishingly hard to achieve unless you were lucky enough to inherit.

    If you are over 50, you are probably oblivious to this problem, too.

    it should be much easer and quick to get planning permeation to build or convert, leading to a big increase in supply of housing which would solve the problem. for a pletera of political reasons that's unlikely to happen.
    One interesting bit I came across recently - I was talking to some planning people on a forum, and they decried the idea of building a few houses here and there as "inefficient".

    It seems to me that this missies the point of what is politically possible. If you are going to get monumental opposition to build an estate, adding a street to a village (say) is probably far more achievable.

    Simply demanding that politicians green light the building of whole towns is not going to work.
    The 'right' answer is to give people the autonomy to do what they wish with the property i.e. land and let anybody build, the developers will only build where people what to by at a prices above what it costs to build, so not every inch of land will be built on.

    However, I fully take your point that, this level of freedom is inconceivable in modern Brittan, so any thing that gets some homes built is a small step in the right direction, a house here, a street there, a dinly estate where we can....

    One of the sad parts of this approach though, is it means that scraps of land that might otherwise have made a small park, get used. where as just building a new big estate on a farm would often be cheaper per-house, and would incentivise builders to leave parks, playgrounds and other amenities, that will increase the atractiness and therefore value of all the houses in the estate they have just built.
    Part of the planning religion is density. Hence, in Marden in Kent, they built a bunch of houses where the gardens are so small that fence fires from BBQs are common. Think London style patio gardens - not even a square....

    Strangely, the locals hate them.
    Do the people who buy them hate them? They would seem to be the key group here. It's usually for the Council to tell them what the density and mix, and aiui a general requirement that 10% of the area on a decent sized estate be devoted to open space. Or something similar be provided.

    There are plenty of people who only want a patio or courtyard garden.

    For an example, myself and another family member have just sold a smallish bungalow (~700 sqft) converted from my dad's architectural office a decade ago on a very small site to a man with a disability, who just wants somewhere which is easy to live in and easy to look after.
    The people who live in them have started a bitter campaign to stop any more being built. On the grounds they are ugly and shit.
    Do you have a link to the protest story?
  • Money starting to come for Truss, into 1.03 in one market.

    Reminder: at some point, inside information about the count may be leaked.

    Rishi is not very liquid; the price on Liz Truss is a more reliable signal.

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.04 Liz Truss 96%
    23 Rishi Sunak 4%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.03 Liz Truss 97%
    25 Rishi Sunak 4%

    1.04 gone.

    Reminder: at some point, inside information about the count may be leaked.

    Rishi is not very liquid; the price on Liz Truss is a more reliable signal.

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.03 Liz Truss 97%
    26 Rishi Sunak

    Next Conservative leader
    1.03 Liz Truss 97%
    28 Rishi Sunak
    1.02 for leader or 1.03 for PM in case Boris slings her out of the plane somewhere over the Pennines?

    Reminder: at some point, inside information about the count may be leaked.

    Rishi is not very liquid; the price on Liz Truss is a more reliable signal.

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.03 Liz Truss 97%
    30 Rishi Sunak

    Next Conservative leader
    1.02 Liz Truss 98%
    38 Rishi Sunak
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    You will be comparing the Last Night of the Proms to the Nuremberg Rally next
    Ridiculous. The Nuremberg Rallies were far more tuneful.
  • @visegrad24
    Another scandalous statement on Ukraine by Macron.

    He basically calls Central Eastern European nations such as Czechia, the Baltic states and Poland the “most war-mongering countries that risk of extending the conflict.”

    He says Brussels can’t let them set EU policies on Russia


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1566456544455262210
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    Wait.

    An American President giving a speech with a flag behind him...

    What?

    I'm really struggling to see the story here.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,510
    I initially thought Russell had screwed Hamilton, but after watching it play out, he made exactly the right call. With the tyre offset, the race was unwinnable from Hamilton's position with his tyres.

    Unless we insist that the rear-gunner option would have held Verstappen up by over 13 seconds, that is. Which it wouldn't. Why would we think Verstappen would have taken longer to get past Russell on cold mediums at the restart than it actually took him to get past Hamilton on cold mediums at the restart? Russell's good, but he's not leagues better than Hamilton, which he'd need to be in order to get a different outcome.

    So - turn one after the restart, rear-gunner dispatched, Verstappen hard on Hamilton's heels. Would Verstappen have taken longer, on his fresh softs, to hunt down and pass Hamilton than Russell did on his fresh softs? I'm not seeing it. Verstappen leading after two laps of the restart if they'd gone that route.

    Meanwhile, given that Leclerc hunted Hamilton down and passed him as well, he'd have got past both Mercedes if they'd have been on cold mediums.

    Going the rear-gunner route ends up with Mercedes 3-4 versus their actual 2-4.
    On the flip side, if they'd rolled the dice like Red Bull did earlier, and both gone in for softs, they'd have come out 2-3. Maybe an outside chance for Hamilton to get the tow down the straight on the restart like Verstappen did the way it unfolded. And if he'd got ahead there, with the same tyres, he'd have had a chance of holding it. Chance of 1-3, with a 2-3 in the bag.

    Nope. Russell was right. Verstappen on fresh softs was easily over a second a lap faster than the Mercedes on cold used mediums, and you wouldn't have needed a rear-gunner to hold him off, you'd have needed HIMARS.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 3,664
    ohnotnow said:

    Don't think this has been posted so far : https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62788447

    "Germany announces €65bn package to curb soaring energy costs

    ... Mr Scholz told journalists Germany would get through the winter, adding that Russia was "no longer a reliable energy partner".

    He said the government would make one-off payments to pensioners, people on benefits and students. There would also be caps on energy bills.

    Some 9,000 energy-intensive businesses would receive tax breaks to the tune of €1.7bn.

    A windfall tax on energy company profits would also be used to mitigate bills, Mr Scholz said."

    We can learn a lot about how to deal with this energy crisis by studying other countries and having a flux capacitor.

    Britain should follow the French approach: build a huge fleet of nuclear power stations a few decades ago.

    Likewise Germany should follow the UK approach to gas supply and not embed Russian gas into its industrial strategy a couple of decades ago.

    Russia could relieve its current sanctions burden effectively by not having invaded Ukraine in 2014 and this February.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,155
    mhart said:

    rkrkrk said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    I know that 600k will just about get you an unmodernised 2 bed semi in Epping Forest.
    I'm from New Jersey. You also have to look at this in the context that property taxes there (the equivalent of council tax) are incredibly high.

    The interent says the average property tax in Montclair is around twenty grand a year. That sounds very plausible.
    Exactly.

    If you decide that taxing primary residences cannot be done... then don't be surprised when people invest more and more into buying a house! If you then offer subsidies and help to people buying houses, prices will go even higher.

    Switching to US-style property taxes or a land value tax would help significantly with the housing crisis by encouraging better use of land, more density of housing, people to downsize earlier.
    If interest rates rocket higher causing house prices to crash the housing crisis is sorted...pain for those with a mortgage but probably the only way this is sorted out
    The US property taxes have an effect - but not the direct one you are thinking of.

    Local government is funded, very largely, by them. Which means the locally administration is in favour of more properties, in most places. People who sit of school boards etc.

    This means in much of America, building more homes is welcomed by a large chunk of the community.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    mhart said:

    rkrkrk said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    I know that 600k will just about get you an unmodernised 2 bed semi in Epping Forest.
    I'm from New Jersey. You also have to look at this in the context that property taxes there (the equivalent of council tax) are incredibly high.

    The interent says the average property tax in Montclair is around twenty grand a year. That sounds very plausible.
    Exactly.

    If you decide that taxing primary residences cannot be done... then don't be surprised when people invest more and more into buying a house! If you then offer subsidies and help to people buying houses, prices will go even higher.

    Switching to US-style property taxes or a land value tax would help significantly with the housing crisis by encouraging better use of land, more density of housing, people to downsize earlier.
    If interest rates rocket higher causing house prices to crash the housing crisis is sorted...pain for those with a mortgage but probably the only way this is sorted out
    No it is not. If you don't have enough actual housing you don't, irrespective of what it costs
  • mhartmhart Posts: 15

    @visegrad24
    Another scandalous statement on Ukraine by Macron.

    He basically calls Central Eastern European nations such as Czechia, the Baltic states and Poland the “most war-mongering countries that risk of extending the conflict.”

    He says Brussels can’t let them set EU policies on Russia


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1566456544455262210

    Seems much of the eu potentially going soft on Russia now. From telegraph

    End the energy sanctions against Russia because we are on our knees,’ says Matteo Salvini

    The far-Right Italian election hopeful said the situation was making Moscow richer as anti-EU protests took place in the Czech Republic

    ByJames Kilner and agencies4 September 2022 • 3:53pm

    Matteo Salvini, the leader of Italy’s far-Right League party, on Sunday called for an end to sanctions on Russia that are leaving citizens “on their knees” because of higher energy bills.

  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    He's just trying to project the authority of his office - this is what it looks like. I used to live in America and was constantly grossed out by the ludicrous flag shagging nonsense that went on. This is a totally par for the course. It looks fascistic to you because of the shared aesthetic but you are not the intended audience.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,643
    edited September 2022
    Let’s imagine two families.

    Family 1 (the Albions) lives in Oxted, Surrey.
    Father has a project management job in the City and Mother is a teacher. Two kids. Total household income £160k.

    Family 2 (the Yankovics) lives in Montclair, New Jersey. Same jobs, but total household income is $260k.

    Family 1 net is £104k after taxes.
    Family 2 net is $190k.

    Family 1 pays £4k council tax
    Family 2 pays $20k property tax

    So now Family 1 has £100k and Family 2 has $170k.

    Cost of living is difficult to compare.
    Food is cheaper in Oxted, but commuting and energy bills are probably cheaper in Montclair.
    For the sake of argument let’s assume it’s a wash.

    Family 1 has to settle for a semi-detached 1960s house of 1700sqft.

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/126437891#/?channel=RES_BUY

    So Family 2 in Montclair has something like 1/3 more discretionary spending AND they get more than double the space.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-NJ-07042/38680798_zpid/

  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    Wait.

    An American President giving a speech with a flag behind him...

    What?

    I'm really struggling to see the story here.
    So is Leon, hence the backtracking.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the US November elections, there is some very interesting polling coming out from Trafalgar (hear me out) in some of the states. For the NY Governorship, Trafalgar has it 48 v 43 for the Ds

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2022/governor/ny/new_york_governor_zeldin_vs_hochul-7749.html

    Meanwhile, in the Washington Senate race, the Democrats have only a +3 lead

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2022/senate/wa/washington_senate_smiley_vs_murray-7400.html

    The obvious reaction will be "It's Trafalgar". However, (1) these polls are not just 3 or 5 points difference from others, they are something like 15-20 points difference and (2) there have been a few other Trafalgar polls in other races (GA Senate / Governorship; PA Governorship / Senate) where the Trafalgar findings have been replicated in later polls.

    Any insights into what is going on? Even if you think Trafalgar is sh1t, that magnitude of discrepancy is massive.

    I don't believe Trafalgar conducts polls. There is no corporate entity. They don't have clients.

    I think they are entirely made up.
    Ok, let's run with that.

    538 rates them at A-. Doesn't mean they are right, 538 could be completely wrong. However, they include Trafalgar in their polls so they clearly don't believe they are fake.

    Let's take another example, the GA Senate race. The polls for July / August had Warnock between +3 to +10. Trafalgar then comes up with Walker +1. One or two days later, Emerson comes up with a +2 Walker lead. So is Trafalgar getting lucky with their guesses? Tapping into other polling companies' data?

    As I said. scepticism is natural but claiming they falsify their data is something else.



    Well, having interviewed the founder, i think he's a sharp cookie, who likes the attention.

    But, let's turn this around.

    Telephone polling is not inexpensive. Trafalgar has no office. It's not a corporation. It doesn't conduct polls for newspapers or for organizations.

    Who pays for the polls? Who conducts them?

    Any of us* on here could invent some polling easily, and do a reasonable job of getting pretty close to the result, especially in the context of races where there are lots of existing pollsters.

    * Well, most of us
  • One would thing it would be fascinating to watch one of this site’s biggest luminaries circle the alt-right conspiracist plug-hole, but it’s actually deeply boring.

    I now routinely skip his posts, which I never used to do.

    Like any other performance that depends on shocking the bourgeoisie by saying the unsayable, you have to keep upping the stakes. Then you end up saying things that are genuinely repulsive. See late night Channel 4.

    There's a chunk of thinking in Conservative education circles- Katherine Birbalsingh, Fr Calvin Robinson- who are circling the same plughole. It's a shame, because they used to be interesting.
    I didn’t know that about Birbalsingh.
    That’s very sad.

    There is clearly an attention-economy, unleashed by social media, that drives extremism and polarity in political discourse.

    I strongly believe in freedom of speech, but it is also clear that social media has created real harms.
    I’ve not seen it myself.

    Perhaps some evidence?

  • mhartmhart Posts: 15
    IshmaelZ said:

    mhart said:

    rkrkrk said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    I know that 600k will just about get you an unmodernised 2 bed semi in Epping Forest.
    I'm from New Jersey. You also have to look at this in the context that property taxes there (the equivalent of council tax) are incredibly high.

    The interent says the average property tax in Montclair is around twenty grand a year. That sounds very plausible.
    Exactly.

    If you decide that taxing primary residences cannot be done... then don't be surprised when people invest more and more into buying a house! If you then offer subsidies and help to people buying houses, prices will go even higher.

    Switching to US-style property taxes or a land value tax would help significantly with the housing crisis by encouraging better use of land, more density of housing, people to downsize earlier.
    If interest rates rocket higher causing house prices to crash the housing crisis is sorted...pain for those with a mortgage but probably the only way this is sorted out
    No it is not. If you don't have enough actual housing you don't, irrespective of what it costs
    Yes but with higher interest rates fewer people can afford the homes at current prices so prices fall.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002
    mhart said:

    @visegrad24
    Another scandalous statement on Ukraine by Macron.

    He basically calls Central Eastern European nations such as Czechia, the Baltic states and Poland the “most war-mongering countries that risk of extending the conflict.”

    He says Brussels can’t let them set EU policies on Russia


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1566456544455262210

    Seems much of the eu potentially going soft on Russia now. From telegraph

    End the energy sanctions against Russia because we are on our knees,’ says Matteo Salvini

    The far-Right Italian election hopeful said the situation was making Moscow richer as anti-EU protests took place in the Czech Republic

    ByJames Kilner and agencies4 September 2022 • 3:53pm

    Matteo Salvini, the leader of Italy’s far-Right League party, on Sunday called for an end to sanctions on Russia that are leaving citizens “on their knees” because of higher energy bills.

    Salvini cosying up to Putin is not exactly new news.

    More interesting is the fragmentation you are seeing on Europe's right: Salvini, Orban and Duda used to all be very close, and (rightly) sceptical of Brussels. And then there were two.
  • Mr. Cooke, Hamilton came very close to defending, though. It's not a question of 13s, it's a question of getting the tyres up to temperature.

    I suspect you're right that double softs would been the way to go, but Hamilton got his race ruined by leaving him where he was.

    Less than thrilled for my bet too. Had the AlphaTauri stupid Tsunoda decision and Bottas' car failure not occurred, it would've been a splendid 8.5 winner. But there we are.
  • Penddu2 said:

    Russia-Ukraine Red Lines:

    Russia will eventually have to abandon Kerson (west of Dnieper) and that is when a peace deal could be negotiated.

    Russia will want to hold everything it still holds at that point (but will drop its stupider requests such as receiving payment from Ukraine for Russia's war losses).

    Ukraine will want Russia to return to its pre-2014 borders.

    Compromise could be in Russia holding Crimea and its current land in Donbass - but returning other lands in Southern Ukraine and around Kharkiv. Crimea to be demilitarised (except for Sevastopol port) - With UN/Turkish peace-keeping troops brought in to police the border. Ukraine would need to guarantee water & electricity supply - and also demilitarise say 10km from Zaporizia nuclear plant - again use UN/Turkish troops to police.

    Russian sanctions to be dropped in return for reparation payments to Ukraine - say at a 10% levy on gas exports for 10 years



    You can’t reward Russia for invading Ukraine. That just incentivises the next time. They need to be stopped and pushed back.

    There comes a time when you say “Enough! No More!”. That time is now.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    mhart said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Other than the colour red I'm failing to see the connection. But isn't red the colour of communism anyway? So perhaps it is a massive error after all because it makes Biden look like a commie bastard.
    Look at the Geldof photo. That’s the movie director going for a fascist “feel”. Deep dark red, heavy flags, bombastic Roman architecture, military men standing erect


    These are fascist motifs without a doubt, which is why artists employ them when they want to go for a fascist aesthetic
    Well it was a divisive speech anyway...sadly so. It will only inflame the maga crowd
    They're inflamed regardless - the election was stolen and all that cobbler.

    To blame disproportionate reaction (emotional or otherwise) on whatever provoked it is irrational.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    edited September 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    Wait.

    An American President giving a speech with a flag behind him...

    What?

    I'm really struggling to see the story here.
    Leon is bored and wants to play Cassandra.

    I prefer AI.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,268
    The ingenuity of the Ukrainians is matched only by the base stupidity of the Russian troops.... Weaponising the beauty of Ukrainian women:

    The Russians "leaked the co-ordinates of their base to hackers because they thought they were talking to beautiful women...."

    And that base then got taken out.

    https://twitter.com/789Bigsky/status/1566460385649106948
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,155

    Penddu2 said:

    Russia-Ukraine Red Lines:

    Russia will eventually have to abandon Kerson (west of Dnieper) and that is when a peace deal could be negotiated.

    Russia will want to hold everything it still holds at that point (but will drop its stupider requests such as receiving payment from Ukraine for Russia's war losses).

    Ukraine will want Russia to return to its pre-2014 borders.

    Compromise could be in Russia holding Crimea and its current land in Donbass - but returning other lands in Southern Ukraine and around Kharkiv. Crimea to be demilitarised (except for Sevastopol port) - With UN/Turkish peace-keeping troops brought in to police the border. Ukraine would need to guarantee water & electricity supply - and also demilitarise say 10km from Zaporizia nuclear plant - again use UN/Turkish troops to police.

    Russian sanctions to be dropped in return for reparation payments to Ukraine - say at a 10% levy on gas exports for 10 years



    You can’t reward Russia for invading Ukraine. That just incentivises the next time. They need to be stopped and pushed back.

    There comes a time when you say “Enough! No More!”. That time is now.

    Why not reward Russia?

    Give them Corsica, Sardinia and Wales? Land for peace etc….
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    Wait.

    An American President giving a speech with a flag behind him...

    What?

    I'm really struggling to see the story here.
    :-)
    From the Troll FAQ (advice to trollers) from 1996:

    " 'Even if this is true......' That represents the perfect response to any troll. Award yourself a Troll Gold Star every time you get one!"
  • mhartmhart Posts: 15
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    Wait.

    An American President giving a speech with a flag behind him...

    What?

    I'm really struggling to see the story here.
    Leon is bored and wants to play Cassandra.

    I prefer AI.
    To be fair the symbolism has been mentioned a lot on social media....its not just Leon's imagination
  • rcs1000 said:

    mhart said:

    @visegrad24
    Another scandalous statement on Ukraine by Macron.

    He basically calls Central Eastern European nations such as Czechia, the Baltic states and Poland the “most war-mongering countries that risk of extending the conflict.”

    He says Brussels can’t let them set EU policies on Russia


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1566456544455262210

    Seems much of the eu potentially going soft on Russia now. From telegraph

    End the energy sanctions against Russia because we are on our knees,’ says Matteo Salvini

    The far-Right Italian election hopeful said the situation was making Moscow richer as anti-EU protests took place in the Czech Republic

    ByJames Kilner and agencies4 September 2022 • 3:53pm

    Matteo Salvini, the leader of Italy’s far-Right League party, on Sunday called for an end to sanctions on Russia that are leaving citizens “on their knees” because of higher energy bills.

    Salvini cosying up to Putin is not exactly new news.

    More interesting is the fragmentation you are seeing on Europe's right: Salvini, Orban and Duda used to all be very close, and (rightly) sceptical of Brussels. And then there were two.
    Polish politics is very interesting because of the way German and Russian relations intersect. Being ‘sound’ on Russia doesn’t mean being naive about Brussels.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567

    @visegrad24
    Another scandalous statement on Ukraine by Macron.

    He basically calls Central Eastern European nations such as Czechia, the Baltic states and Poland the “most war-mongering countries that risk of extending the conflict.”

    He says Brussels can’t let them set EU policies on Russia


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1566456544455262210

    Surely the EU should set policy together? It's not the Franco-German show, right?

    Extending the conflict is hardly the worst option available Macron, mate.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,994

    Penddu2 said:

    Russia-Ukraine Red Lines:

    Russia will eventually have to abandon Kerson (west of Dnieper) and that is when a peace deal could be negotiated.

    Russia will want to hold everything it still holds at that point (but will drop its stupider requests such as receiving payment from Ukraine for Russia's war losses).

    Ukraine will want Russia to return to its pre-2014 borders.

    Compromise could be in Russia holding Crimea and its current land in Donbass - but returning other lands in Southern Ukraine and around Kharkiv. Crimea to be demilitarised (except for Sevastopol port) - With UN/Turkish peace-keeping troops brought in to police the border. Ukraine would need to guarantee water & electricity supply - and also demilitarise say 10km from Zaporizia nuclear plant - again use UN/Turkish troops to police.

    Russian sanctions to be dropped in return for reparation payments to Ukraine - say at a 10% levy on gas exports for 10 years



    You can’t reward Russia for invading Ukraine. That just incentivises the next time. They need to be stopped and pushed back.

    There comes a time when you say “Enough! No More!”. That time is now.

    Yes ridiculous Penddu’s comments are ridiculous. Almost no compromise whatsoever for an invading force that has killed potentially more than 100k in war crimes. And one that will lose the war harder the longer it goes on!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567

    Penddu2 said:

    Russia-Ukraine Red Lines:

    Russia will eventually have to abandon Kerson (west of Dnieper) and that is when a peace deal could be negotiated.

    Russia will want to hold everything it still holds at that point (but will drop its stupider requests such as receiving payment from Ukraine for Russia's war losses).

    Ukraine will want Russia to return to its pre-2014 borders.

    Compromise could be in Russia holding Crimea and its current land in Donbass - but returning other lands in Southern Ukraine and around Kharkiv. Crimea to be demilitarised (except for Sevastopol port) - With UN/Turkish peace-keeping troops brought in to police the border. Ukraine would need to guarantee water & electricity supply - and also demilitarise say 10km from Zaporizia nuclear plant - again use UN/Turkish troops to police.

    Russian sanctions to be dropped in return for reparation payments to Ukraine - say at a 10% levy on gas exports for 10 years



    You can’t reward Russia for invading Ukraine. That just incentivises the next time. They need to be stopped and pushed back.

    There comes a time when you say “Enough! No More!”. That time is now.

    Should be so, but the 'solution' is plausible as one which might fracture western unity or if Ukraine stalls. Hopefully it won't happen
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,510

    Mr. Cooke, Hamilton came very close to defending, though. It's not a question of 13s, it's a question of getting the tyres up to temperature.

    I suspect you're right that double softs would been the way to go, but Hamilton got his race ruined by leaving him where he was.

    Less than thrilled for my bet too. Had the AlphaTauri stupid Tsunoda decision and Bottas' car failure not occurred, it would've been a splendid 8.5 winner. But there we are.

    I don't think he did. I was watching and Verstappen got past Hamilton within seconds of the restart. The Safety Car went back in, Hamilton accelerated to go flat out - and Verstappen was alongside and then ahead whilst still on the straight. Hamilton didn't even defend for one corner.

    Russell would have been overtaken just as quickly. He'd have bought Hamilton one straight and one turn - that's not enough to get the tyres up to temperature. And Hamilton couldn't hold off his teammate two laps later with that tyre differential.

    Overtake one: our reality - Verstappen on Hamilton by turn one. Equivalent overtake in alternate timeline with the rear gunner option - Verstappen on Russell by turn one.

    Overtake two: our reality - Russell on Hamilton a lap or two later. Equavalent overtake in alternate timeline with the rear gunner option - Verstappen on Hamilton and quite probably sooner, seeing as Verstappen was 0.4s per lap faster than Russell.

    Nope. The rear gunner option had no chance of working. Verstappen would have led in under two laps at most. And Leclerc would have picked off both Mercedes for second place for himself.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    Dynamo said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    Wait.

    An American President giving a speech with a flag behind him...

    What?

    I'm really struggling to see the story here.
    :-)
    From the Troll FAQ (advice to trollers) from 1996:

    " 'Even if this is true......' That represents the perfect response to any troll. Award yourself a Troll Gold Star every time you get one!"
    You read the advice given to trolls? Why would you do that? 🤔
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002
    Dynamo said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    Wait.

    An American President giving a speech with a flag behind him...

    What?

    I'm really struggling to see the story here.
    :-)
    From the Troll FAQ (advice to trollers) from 1996:

    " 'Even if this is true......' That represents the perfect response to any troll. Award yourself a Troll Gold Star every time you get one!"
    Even if what is true?

    It's a picture of Biden at a podium, with a flag in the background.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    He's just trying to project the authority of his office - this is what it looks like. I used to live in America and was constantly grossed out by the ludicrous flag shagging nonsense that went on. This is a totally par for the course. It looks fascistic to you because of the shared aesthetic but you are not the intended audience.
    It's confusing Leon's wee napper though, the perceived fascistic aesthetic makes him feel horny but it being associated with an ageing libtard prez makes him feel eugh.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    mhart said:

    rkrkrk said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    I know that 600k will just about get you an unmodernised 2 bed semi in Epping Forest.
    I'm from New Jersey. You also have to look at this in the context that property taxes there (the equivalent of council tax) are incredibly high.

    The interent says the average property tax in Montclair is around twenty grand a year. That sounds very plausible.
    Exactly.

    If you decide that taxing primary residences cannot be done... then don't be surprised when people invest more and more into buying a house! If you then offer subsidies and help to people buying houses, prices will go even higher.

    Switching to US-style property taxes or a land value tax would help significantly with the housing crisis by encouraging better use of land, more density of housing, people to downsize earlier.
    If interest rates rocket higher causing house prices to crash the housing crisis is sorted...pain for those with a mortgage but probably the only way this is sorted out
    What happens to the mortgage debt in your scenario, currently at more than £1trn? How much of it do the banks write off, and what happens then?

    The only reason house prices are so high (except for properties in Eaton Square etc.) is because the banks have been allowed by the government to lend so much, and they have influenced minds so that many idiots think it's sensible to borrow as much as the banks will lend them. That is not so in many other countries. For example in Sweden, I can't remember the exact figure but I was told that a typical family who could get a loan for SEK x to buy a house would only take a out a loan for about 50% of SEK x.

    Compare with Ireland. I don't think you can just apply a fixed multiplier to everything and say a housing market crash in Britain would have all the same features as in Ireland but everything would be multiplied by y. Retail banking would probably collapse all in one week, and it wouldn't just be those with mortgage-backed debt who would be hit.

    We are close to a definition of parasitism here.
  • mhartmhart Posts: 15
    Dynamo said:

    mhart said:

    rkrkrk said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    I know that 600k will just about get you an unmodernised 2 bed semi in Epping Forest.
    I'm from New Jersey. You also have to look at this in the context that property taxes there (the equivalent of council tax) are incredibly high.

    The interent says the average property tax in Montclair is around twenty grand a year. That sounds very plausible.
    Exactly.

    If you decide that taxing primary residences cannot be done... then don't be surprised when people invest more and more into buying a house! If you then offer subsidies and help to people buying houses, prices will go even higher.

    Switching to US-style property taxes or a land value tax would help significantly with the housing crisis by encouraging better use of land, more density of housing, people to downsize earlier.
    If interest rates rocket higher causing house prices to crash the housing crisis is sorted...pain for those with a mortgage but probably the only way this is sorted out
    What happens to the mortgage debt in your scenario, currently at more than £1trn? How much of it do the banks write off, and what happens then?

    The only reason house prices are so high (except for properties in Eaton Square etc.) is because the banks have been allowed by the government to lend so much, and they have influenced minds so that many idiots think it's sensible to borrow as much as the banks will lend them. That is not so in many other countries. For example in Sweden, I can't remember the exact figure but I was told that a typical family who could get a loan for SEK x to buy a house would only take a out a loan for about 50% of SEK x.

    Compare with Ireland. I don't think you can just apply a fixed multiplier to everything and say a housing market crash in Britain would have all the same features as in Ireland but everything would be multiplied by y. Retail banking would probably collapse all in one week, and it wouldn't just be those with mortgage-backed debt who would be hit.

    We are close to a definition of parasitism here.
    Well the govt would intervene of course...all roads currently sadly lead to inflation
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,155
    mhart said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    Wait.

    An American President giving a speech with a flag behind him...

    What?

    I'm really struggling to see the story here.
    Leon is bored and wants to play Cassandra.

    I prefer AI.
    To be fair the symbolism has been mentioned a lot on social media....its not just Leon's imagination
    The Fascists (and Nazis) simply used the existing iconography - bags of non Fascist architecture from around that time with pseudo Greek/Roman motifes. The literal "Fasces" etc. They just did it on a ridiculous scale.

    To claim that this is Fascism would be like claiming that hi-speed express trains running on time is Fascism.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,477

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    Did you scroll past the first two photoshop pictures to see its current state? Needs another $1m of work. It may also have tens or hundreds of thousands of back-taxes due.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316

    Mr. Cooke, Hamilton came very close to defending, though. It's not a question of 13s, it's a question of getting the tyres up to temperature.

    I suspect you're right that double softs would been the way to go, but Hamilton got his race ruined by leaving him where he was.

    Less than thrilled for my bet too. Had the AlphaTauri stupid Tsunoda decision and Bottas' car failure not occurred, it would've been a splendid 8.5 winner. But there we are.

    I think the point is that everything would have to have gone perfectly for Mercedes to win.
    The Red Bill is so quick (unless Perez is driving) that it has multiple ways it can do so.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,230
    Let me know when Leon and his brigade of sock-puppets have buggered off.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,979

    mhart said:

    Dynamo said:

    Russia has called a meeting of the members of the Biological Weapons Convention, where it will accuse the US and Ukraine of violating the treaty. They have also said that the US plan to increase its number of biological stations in Europe is a threat to Russian military security.

    In other news, China has locked down more than 20 million people in Chengdu.

    One can understand people flocking to Luton airport to go on foreign holidays now while they've still got the chance...adding to their debt maybe but what the hell.

    Yes must admit I've partied and holidayed a lot this summer...but thats over now....serious times coming
    Surely not a new ID coming? No full stops, a dead giveaway
    Noticed something truly eerie yesterday, something with implications I'm trying to shy away from but can't quite ... BigG doesn't use full stops.

    ???
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,155
    sylv said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dynamo said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    Wait.

    An American President giving a speech with a flag behind him...

    What?

    I'm really struggling to see the story here.
    :-)
    From the Troll FAQ (advice to trollers) from 1996:

    " 'Even if this is true......' That represents the perfect response to any troll. Award yourself a Troll Gold Star every time you get one!"
    Even if what is true?

    It's a picture of Biden at a podium, with a flag in the background.
    Seeing as @leon is unable to comment I will make his point for him

    When the writers of the daily beast wanted to colorise an actual American Nazi rally they did this




    When the makers of The Wall wanted to make Bob Geldof look like a classic fascist they did this



    And when the makers of a tv series about Hitler wanted to capture his fascist aesthetic they went for this





    And when Joe Biden decided to make a provocative speech about fascism he went for this





    People making speeches in front of flags isn't Fascism. Fascism is, potentially, in the content of the speeches and the actions of the speaker.

    Things like storming parliament buildings to try and overturn elections.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    The Clinton obsession is beginning to look beyond odd.

    So that we’re clear, they’re chanting “lock her up” for mishandling classified documents. At a Trump rally. In front of Donald Trump.
    https://twitter.com/briantylercohen/status/1566215514648506370
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,979

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    Wait.

    An American President giving a speech with a flag behind him...

    What?

    I'm really struggling to see the story here.
    So is Leon, hence the backtracking.
    We're getting the benefit of some puerile talking point from Truth Social ... joy abounds.
  • Leon said:

    Thought experiment. I suggest the best possible outcome for America now is an obviously valid Trump win in 2024. A win that he doesn’t have to enforce with violence

    Would that be deserved? No. Of course not. He’s a maniac and a brute

    However it would mollify the right in the USA. At a crucial moment. Pulling them back from civil war

    And trump is not obviously a bad politician. He has good instincts - like lab leak. The big issue would be US withdrawal from NATO and isolationism - clearly bad for the UK, tho justifiable from a US perspective

    The likely alternative - a win by an aged Biden and a worsening of Wokeness leads, I think, to civil strife of some kind

    Trump has good instincts. His vision (America turning its back on the world, but being so well-armed that nobody can touch them) is really the only way that the long term future looks OK for the USA. If this does not happen, and the US continues on its present course, very big chickens will come home to roost, culpability for Covid amongst them.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    OnboardG1 said:

    Let me know when Leon and his brigade of sock-puppets have buggered off.

    Intelligent post in any number of ways.
  • A sobering three tweets. Sobering also that it looks like a guy not too distant from my age who should be doing banal, late middle aged things rather than dying in battle. Needs must, I hope I would be up to it if in a similar position.



    https://twitter.com/brokenpixelua/status/1566398081163223041?s=20&t=F21VHPROGTfoSk2kvHif3g




  • OnboardG1 said:

    Let me know when Leon and his brigade of sock-puppets have buggered off.

    "Wake me up when September ends"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,979

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    Wait.

    An American President giving a speech with a flag behind him...

    What?

    I'm really struggling to see the story here.
    I think it's because only Republicans are allowed to compare their opponents to fascists. Or Marxists, communists, or paedophiles, for that matter. If Democrats respond in similar language, no matter how long it eventually takes, they're "divisive."
    Yep - the Right are very very touchy.
  • An adulterer complains about a lack of loyalty from his family. Pass the sick bag.

    Charles finds Harry and Meghan's jibes at the royal family 'painful' and is 'bewildered' by their behaviour

    https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1566465225682976770
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316

    @visegrad24
    Another scandalous statement on Ukraine by Macron.

    He basically calls Central Eastern European nations such as Czechia, the Baltic states and Poland the “most war-mongering countries that risk of extending the conflict.”

    He says Brussels can’t let them set EU policies on Russia


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1566456544455262210

    Isn’t the most war-mongering country the one that actually started the war ?
    By, you know, invading its neighbour.

  • mhartmhart Posts: 15
    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    Wait.

    An American President giving a speech with a flag behind him...

    What?

    I'm really struggling to see the story here.
    So is Leon, hence the backtracking.
    We're getting the benefit of some puerile talking point from Truth Social ... joy abounds.
    Not just truth social. This is Peter Mcgahan on twitter

    https://twitter.com/peter_mcgahan/status/1565739598579384320?s=20&t=bCcuRjL4ed4936uk_cwwfg
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,154
    edited September 2022
    mhart said:

    Dynamo said:

    mhart said:

    rkrkrk said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    A six bedroom, 3650sqft house in Montclair, New Jersey. Built 1927.

    Less than $1m.

    About 14 miles from Wall Street.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/155-Highland-Ave-Montclair-Twp.-NJ-07042-1913/38680798_zpid/

    What does £850k buy you in Epping, Brentwood, Oxted or Epsom?

    I know that 600k will just about get you an unmodernised 2 bed semi in Epping Forest.
    I'm from New Jersey. You also have to look at this in the context that property taxes there (the equivalent of council tax) are incredibly high.

    The interent says the average property tax in Montclair is around twenty grand a year. That sounds very plausible.
    Exactly.

    If you decide that taxing primary residences cannot be done... then don't be surprised when people invest more and more into buying a house! If you then offer subsidies and help to people buying houses, prices will go even higher.

    Switching to US-style property taxes or a land value tax would help significantly with the housing crisis by encouraging better use of land, more density of housing, people to downsize earlier.
    If interest rates rocket higher causing house prices to crash the housing crisis is sorted...pain for those with a mortgage but probably the only way this is sorted out
    What happens to the mortgage debt in your scenario, currently at more than £1trn? How much of it do the banks write off, and what happens then?

    The only reason house prices are so high (except for properties in Eaton Square etc.) is because the banks have been allowed by the government to lend so much, and they have influenced minds so that many idiots think it's sensible to borrow as much as the banks will lend them. That is not so in many other countries. For example in Sweden, I can't remember the exact figure but I was told that a typical family who could get a loan for SEK x to buy a house would only take a out a loan for about 50% of SEK x.

    Compare with Ireland. I don't think you can just apply a fixed multiplier to everything and say a housing market crash in Britain would have all the same features as in Ireland but everything would be multiplied by y. Retail banking would probably collapse all in one week, and it wouldn't just be those with mortgage-backed debt who would be hit.

    We are close to a definition of parasitism here.
    Well the govt would intervene of course...all roads currently sadly lead to inflation
    The mortgage debt thing is a bit of a red herring imo.

    UK house prices are up 20-25% in 2 years, so there is a good deal of headroom for prices to fall without much negative equity. That then depends on your definition of "crash".

    The house price 'collapse' in the GFC was around 20% on average.

    In the main the only people potentially seriously impacted wrt to mortgages are ultra-high LTVs from the last year or so, and since we move house rarely at present on average, that is a tiny % of the population plus very recent FTBs.

    On mortgage payments, something north of 90% have been fixed rate recently, so that will work its way out as fixed payment contracts come to and end.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 20,052
    Leon said:

    Biden’s team have absolutely used Fascist tropes in the staging of that speech. Which, given that it was a speech denouncing fascist republicans - and using the F word - is mind boggling and deeply strange

    The 21st century doesn’t get any more normal

    I'm not into flag-shagging, but if fascists had never done anything but that, we'd be quite tolerant of fascism. Biden's speech does not criticise Trump for excessive use of flags, after all. You mistake the decor (which as OLB notes is not unusual in the US) for the cohtent.
  • mhart said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Is this deliberate? Some kind of bizarre, trolling joke? If so that is criminally irresponsible when America is so volatile. Or is Biden trying to say “I’m the real fascist”. But why would he do that?

    I suspect it is just an enormous error




    Anyone depicting Biden as a fascist is totally bonkers. No fuhrer sits in a rocking chair distributing Werthers Originals.
    Have I said Biden is a fascist?

    No, because he obviously isn’t

    What I am saying is that his team used quite blatant fascist imagery in the staging of that speech about “fascism” which is either some truly bizarre, misguided meta trolling, or a colossal error
    Fascist styling is the norm in US politics. Giant flags everywhere, grandiose classical architecture as backdrop, military might on display. It's disconcerting to European audiences but quite typical over there. Check out the Lincoln Memorial - honest Abe's hands are literally resting on fasces.
    So we’ve gone from “leon is drunk” to “there’s nothing to see” to “ok leon is right it looks quite fascist but it’s normal” - in about 5 minutes. That’s a record even for the slow learners of PB

    And indeed I’m not the first to notice



    However I submit that this Biden imagery outdoes them all. And they do this for a speech when he is denouncing “actual fascism”

    I don’t spy conspiracy. I spy a monumental and really unfortunate cock-up. It probably looked fine in their heads


    Wait.

    An American President giving a speech with a flag behind him...

    What?

    I'm really struggling to see the story here.
    So is Leon, hence the backtracking.
    We're getting the benefit of some puerile talking point from Truth Social ... joy abounds.
    Not just truth social. This is Peter Mcgahan on twitter

    https://twitter.com/peter_mcgahan/status/1565739598579384320?s=20&t=bCcuRjL4ed4936uk_cwwfg
    Who the fuck is Peter McGahan?
This discussion has been closed.