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The fight for Nadine’s seat hots up even though there’s no vacancy – politicalbetting.com

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  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,993
    Pulpstar said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Great



    “A drought in China is threatening food production, prompting the government to order local authorities to take all available measures to ensure crops survive the hottest summer on record.

    On Tuesday, four government departments issued an urgent joint emergency notice, warning that the autumn harvest was under “severe threat”. It urged local authorities to ensure “every unit of water … be used carefully”, and called for methods included staggered irrigation, the diversion of new water sources, and cloud seeding.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/24/china-issues-alert-drought-heatwave-put-crops-at-risk

    This is a big problem and not just for food. The Yangtze is a key industrial highway for raw materials and finished goods, and has hydropower stations with a total of 190Gb of nameplate capacity. That’s without the housing crash and economically destructive zero covid policies of Xi. It’s stagflation write large - simultaneously a massive drag on global growth with supply induced inflation.

    190 GW of nameplate. Christ. Being hydro the
    uptime % will be high too...
    I used to travel all over China to the bits that no tourist would ever want to visit. I’d stare out the window of whatever moving vehicle I was in and wonder how long you could debase the natural environment in the way they were without consequence. It does rather feel like we’ve reached the tipping point. Not that we are blameless. We in the West have been all too keen to export dangerous and dirty industries East.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799
    Pulpstar said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Great



    “A drought in China is threatening food production, prompting the government to order local authorities to take all available measures to ensure crops survive the hottest summer on record.

    On Tuesday, four government departments issued an urgent joint emergency notice, warning that the autumn harvest was under “severe threat”. It urged local authorities to ensure “every unit of water … be used carefully”, and called for methods included staggered irrigation, the diversion of new water sources, and cloud seeding.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/24/china-issues-alert-drought-heatwave-put-crops-at-risk

    This is a big problem and not just for food. The Yangtze is a key industrial highway for raw materials and finished goods, and has hydropower stations with a total of 190Gb of nameplate capacity. That’s without the housing crash and economically destructive zero covid policies of Xi. It’s stagflation write large - simultaneously a massive drag on global growth with supply induced inflation.

    190 GW of nameplate. Christ. Being hydro the uptime % will be high too...
    That is nearly 6x the national grid consumption of the UK.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,853
    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    - @SuellaBraverman: tipped for Home Sec
    - @theresecoffey: senior cabinet role, fixer or chief whip

    Liz Truss is a moron

    What could Suella Braverman do right that Priti Patel has done wrong?
    I do not say it is right. I do not think it is.

    But I suspect she will try to leave the ECHR. She's talked about it often enough during her campaign to be leader.
    I fear you may be right! If ever it could be said that the Conservative party had departed from Churchill's legacy it would be that.
    It would be a day of shame for Britain to do that.
    But party party day for all those lefty legal aid lawyers who would get to argue all the same points again in respect of whatever replaced it. It is so blindingly obvious that this would be the consequence that even Braverman can surely see it. Maybe if her officials used smaller words....
    Our own court system would have let the flight go ahead outwith the last minute intervention by the ECHR. There's enough legal layers (3 (High, Appeal, Supreme)) without needing a 4th (ECHR). Our own courts only changed their mind when the ECHR basically told them to.
    It's an unnecessary layer imo, and since we're outside the EU, and therefore outside of protocol 14 of the Lisbon treaty it's something we ought to ditch.
    Personally I'd vote to head back into the EU and accept we'd need to be under it's remit (Thems the breaks) - but if we're out the EU I don't see the point.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    Cyclefree said:

    Omnium said:

    This seems like another cabinet of lightweights.

    Not sure that turning to someone who is thought of as a heavyweight would be beneficial (say Gove). Firstly there's the liklihood that these rather static years will have become an ingrained theme, and secondly if the Tories are going to turn matters around in the next two years they need quite a lot of fresh air. So personally I think the likes of Tugendhat and Badenoch should be more prominent than suggested, and I'd not give Braverman a spot.

    Chancellor is the key role. Kwarteng seems a reasonable choice, but whoever it is is going to have to be quite bold.
    If I were ambitious like Badenoch and Tugendhat I'd be inclined to sit this government out rather than be associated with what will likely be a shitshow followed by defeat. I'd spend time really thinking through what I'd want to do analysing the issues the country faces and coming up with a version of Conservatism which is attractive and relevant to today rather than a pale copy of a government in power before most voters were born. It's not as if Labour is brimming over with good ideas. If Labour is in power after the election, it could quickly find itself in trouble and vulnerable to an invigorated opposition under a genuinely fresh face.
    Before Labour fails in Government it has the small matter of being the largest party in the next Parliament, I am not entirely convinced that this hurdle can be overcome.

    As for your "a genuinely fresh face", good luck with that. The fresh faces in the leadership election, with perhaps the exception of the really quite politically scary Badenoch, comprehensively disappointed. Maybe Wallace is your man, although he certainly fails @isam 's charisma test.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,341
    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    - @SuellaBraverman: tipped for Home Sec
    - @theresecoffey: senior cabinet role, fixer or chief whip

    Liz Truss is a moron

    What could Suella Braverman do right that Priti Patel has done wrong?
    I do not say it is right. I do not think it is.

    But I suspect she will try to leave the ECHR. She's talked about it often enough during her campaign to be leader.
    I fear you may be right! If ever it could be said that the Conservative party had departed from Churchill's legacy it would be that.
    It would be a day of shame for Britain to do that.
    But party party day for all those lefty legal aid lawyers who would get to argue all the same points again in respect of whatever replaced it. It is so blindingly obvious that this would be the consequence that even Braverman can surely see it. Maybe if her officials used smaller words....
    What makes you think there'd be a replacement?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,782
    GERS figures are out.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,853
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Great



    “A drought in China is threatening food production, prompting the government to order local authorities to take all available measures to ensure crops survive the hottest summer on record.

    On Tuesday, four government departments issued an urgent joint emergency notice, warning that the autumn harvest was under “severe threat”. It urged local authorities to ensure “every unit of water … be used carefully”, and called for methods included staggered irrigation, the diversion of new water sources, and cloud seeding.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/24/china-issues-alert-drought-heatwave-put-crops-at-risk

    This is a big problem and not just for food. The Yangtze is a key industrial highway for raw materials and finished goods, and has hydropower stations with a total of 190Gb of nameplate capacity. That’s without the housing crash and economically destructive zero covid policies of Xi. It’s stagflation write large - simultaneously a massive drag on global growth with supply induced inflation.

    190 GW of nameplate. Christ. Being hydro the uptime % will be high too...
    That is nearly 6x the national grid consumption of the UK.
    It's a bit annoying that our own rivers don't really have the capacity for any sort of substantial hydro. 450 MW from Nessy is nice around the edges but we don't have a Yangtze or a Glomma to offer several gigawatts of nameplate.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    Scott_xP said:

    How the Truss cabinet is shaping up - still lots of moving parts:

    - @KwasiKwarteng: nailed on for chancellor
    - @JamesCleverly: frontrunner for Foreign Sec
    - @SuellaBraverman: tipped for Home Sec
    - @theresecoffey: senior cabinet role, fixer or chief whip

    https://www.ft.com/content/4761449a-6353-4bf2-aa45-dfeefbbed519

    Who else will be in Truss' government:

    - @Jacob_Rees_Mogg will have a senior role but *not* levelling up minister
    - @KemiBadenoch will make the cabinet
    - @TomTugendhat will be handed a senior minister role
    - @MPIainDS tipped for a return to govt

    https://www.ft.com/content/4761449a-6353-4bf2-aa45-dfeefbbed519

    A Brains Trust the envy of the World.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,341

    Cyclefree said:

    Omnium said:

    This seems like another cabinet of lightweights.

    Not sure that turning to someone who is thought of as a heavyweight would be beneficial (say Gove). Firstly there's the liklihood that these rather static years will have become an ingrained theme, and secondly if the Tories are going to turn matters around in the next two years they need quite a lot of fresh air. So personally I think the likes of Tugendhat and Badenoch should be more prominent than suggested, and I'd not give Braverman a spot.

    Chancellor is the key role. Kwarteng seems a reasonable choice, but whoever it is is going to have to be quite bold.
    If I were ambitious like Badenoch and Tugendhat I'd be inclined to sit this government out rather than be associated with what will likely be a shitshow followed by defeat. I'd spend time really thinking through what I'd want to do analysing the issues the country faces and coming up with a version of Conservatism which is attractive and relevant to today rather than a pale copy of a government in power before most voters were born. It's not as if Labour is brimming over with good ideas. If Labour is in power after the election, it could quickly find itself in trouble and vulnerable to an invigorated opposition under a genuinely fresh face.
    Before Labour fails in Government it has the small matter of being the largest party in the next Parliament, I am not entirely convinced that this hurdle can be overcome.

    As for your "a genuinely fresh face", good luck with that. The fresh faces in the leadership election, with perhaps the exception of the really quite politically scary Badenoch, comprehensively disappointed. Maybe Wallace is your man, although he certainly fails @isam 's charisma test.
    I don't really care about saving the Tory party. It seems to have pretty much discarded all that was best about it or, even if one didn't agree, worth respecting as a genuine attempt to do right by the country. But now it's a self-serving, unethical and incompetent rabble. All I'm saying is if I were an ambitious Tory thinking for the long-term I'd not be rushing to associate myself with this government too closely.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,743
    Cyclefree said:

    Energy prices will do for the hospitality sector in a way that Covid didn't.

    A well known and very good pub in Kendal has just had its energy bill go up from £44,000 to £124,000 a year. One of our local pubs has received a 250% increase in their energy bill. It's not just them that suffer if they close but the whole ecosystem of other businesses that depend in part on their trade: the butchers, the wholesale suppliers, the brewers and wine merchants, the cleaning firms, pest control etc etc. All these ripple effects - the loss of business, jobs, rent, licensing fees, rates, tax etc - will be a big problem, one the Tory leadership contenders seem utterly oblivious to.

    All true of course. And people are beginning to notice that the energy crisis has massive knock on effects also for the third sector, which is both large and well known charities but also small local initiatives thousands of which do tiny bits of local good. No-one pays their bills for them.

    As for Cyclefree's point about Tory leadership, such is the nature of party membership on all sides that the candidates have no choice but to put reality on one side in order to be elected, and the one who tickles populist unreality best will probably win.

    Whoever that is (Truss I suppose) will eventually and quite soon face various actualities about which they have no choice at all about having to make hard choices.

    I will be extremely surprised if Truss doesn't in fact go down the path of least resistance - let the great-grandchildren foot the bill and keep a show of sorts on the road.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,914
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    Is it doing the thing where it forces you to watch random short videos aka "reels" from complete strangers?

    It's all part of Meta's drive to turn all their services into tiktok clones.

    They tried it with Instagram and people rightly told them to eff off.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jul/26/instagram-changes-user-backlash-trying-to-be-tiktok

    Social media these days seems all about pushing content on you from complete strangers, whereas I thought the point of it was to be able to connect with friends.
    Facebook is doomed. It has no USP and it has been largely abandoned by people under 40. People under 25 laugh when you ask them if they use it. They regard it as cringe and embarrassing

    It will fall off a cliff very shortly
    Mmmm ..... So, lemme see, Facebook's decline set in shortly after the appointment of (Sir) Nicholas William Peter Clegg.

    The LibDems can tell Facebook what happens next. Cringe and embarrassment is followed by dire catastrophe.
    The problem with the Facebook properties is there's absolutely no innovation. They just look at what's popular at the moment (e.g. tiktok) and copy its exact features.

    The trouble is, the people who want to be on tiktok are already on tiktok. So when they try to turn instagram or facebook into tiktok, they alienate their already dwindling customer base.

    Long term, Facebook have bet the farm on us all existing in the "metaverse" within the next decade, a nebulous term that most people understand as a sort of "wear a VR headset all day, visit branded websites in a virtual corporate dystopia" - so you can see why most people are sceptical.

    As I said downthread, I liked social media when it was about bringing me closer to friends and family (especially ones who live far away). Not influencers, not corporations, not endless memes, videos and ads.

    I don't think there's any social media platform really offering genuine and meaningful connections these days.

    I get more out of posting here, or on a few niche subreddits, and a couple of other forums related to my interests. The thing that unites all the places I hang out online is they all feel like they have a distinct community.

    PB is very much like a comfy pub full of regulars (some of whom start drinking very early...)
    We have a family WhatsApp which works quite well. Eg it was my birthday recently and once I'd received all my cards - some were late but no problem, I don't lose my shit about things like that - I took a photo of them all in a row on the shelf and posted it to the group with a smiley face and a couple of kisses. Nice for me to be able to do this, nice for everybody else to receive such a message because - (a) it confirmed I'd actually got the cards they'd sent and (b) it showed I was appreciative and they should therefore carry on doing it.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,743
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Omnium said:

    This seems like another cabinet of lightweights.

    Not sure that turning to someone who is thought of as a heavyweight would be beneficial (say Gove). Firstly there's the liklihood that these rather static years will have become an ingrained theme, and secondly if the Tories are going to turn matters around in the next two years they need quite a lot of fresh air. So personally I think the likes of Tugendhat and Badenoch should be more prominent than suggested, and I'd not give Braverman a spot.

    Chancellor is the key role. Kwarteng seems a reasonable choice, but whoever it is is going to have to be quite bold.
    If I were ambitious like Badenoch and Tugendhat I'd be inclined to sit this government out rather than be associated with what will likely be a shitshow followed by defeat. I'd spend time really thinking through what I'd want to do analysing the issues the country faces and coming up with a version of Conservatism which is attractive and relevant to today rather than a pale copy of a government in power before most voters were born. It's not as if Labour is brimming over with good ideas. If Labour is in power after the election, it could quickly find itself in trouble and vulnerable to an invigorated opposition under a genuinely fresh face.
    Before Labour fails in Government it has the small matter of being the largest party in the next Parliament, I am not entirely convinced that this hurdle can be overcome.

    As for your "a genuinely fresh face", good luck with that. The fresh faces in the leadership election, with perhaps the exception of the really quite politically scary Badenoch, comprehensively disappointed. Maybe Wallace is your man, although he certainly fails @isam 's charisma test.
    I don't really care about saving the Tory party. It seems to have pretty much discarded all that was best about it or, even if one didn't agree, worth respecting as a genuine attempt to do right by the country. But now it's a self-serving, unethical and incompetent rabble. All I'm saying is if I were an ambitious Tory thinking for the long-term I'd not be rushing to associate myself with this government too closely.
    Good point, but, despite all normal morality the two people who actually survived the whittling down process, one of whom will be PM, were the two most deeply associated with the corruptions of this government. Its sober and moderate critics coming nowhere.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pulpstar said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Great



    “A drought in China is threatening food production, prompting the government to order local authorities to take all available measures to ensure crops survive the hottest summer on record.

    On Tuesday, four government departments issued an urgent joint emergency notice, warning that the autumn harvest was under “severe threat”. It urged local authorities to ensure “every unit of water … be used carefully”, and called for methods included staggered irrigation, the diversion of new water sources, and cloud seeding.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/24/china-issues-alert-drought-heatwave-put-crops-at-risk

    This is a big problem and not just for food. The Yangtze is a key industrial highway for raw materials and finished goods, and has hydropower stations with a total of 190Gb of nameplate capacity. That’s without the housing crash and economically destructive zero covid policies of Xi. It’s stagflation write large - simultaneously a massive drag on global growth with supply induced inflation.

    190 GW of nameplate. Christ. Being hydro the uptime % will be high too...
    One in the eye for Barts theory that the wily Chinaman only burns coal for energy, just to troll the rest of us.
  • Dynamo said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Great



    “A drought in China is threatening food production, prompting the government to order local authorities to take all available measures to ensure crops survive the hottest summer on record.

    On Tuesday, four government departments issued an urgent joint emergency notice, warning that the autumn harvest was under “severe threat”. It urged local authorities to ensure “every unit of water … be used carefully”, and called for methods included staggered irrigation, the diversion of new water sources, and cloud seeding.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/24/china-issues-alert-drought-heatwave-put-crops-at-risk

    This is a big problem and not just for food. The Yangtze is a key industrial highway for raw materials and finished goods, and has hydropower stations with a total of 190Gb of nameplate capacity. That’s without the housing crash and economically destructive zero covid policies of Xi. It’s stagflation write large - simultaneously a massive drag on global growth with supply induced inflation.

    What's so good about global growth?
    Makes people less poor.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,230
    edited August 2022
    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Energy prices will do for the hospitality sector in a way that Covid didn't.

    A well known and very good pub in Kendal has just had its energy bill go up from £44,000 to £124,000 a year. One of our local pubs has received a 250% increase in their energy bill. It's not just them that suffer if they close but the whole ecosystem of other businesses that depend in part on their trade: the butchers, the wholesale suppliers, the brewers and wine merchants, the cleaning firms, pest control etc etc. All these ripple effects - the loss of business, jobs, rent, licensing fees, rates, tax etc - will be a big problem, one the Tory leadership contenders seem utterly oblivious to.

    All true of course. And people are beginning to notice that the energy crisis has massive knock on effects also for the third sector, which is both large and well known charities but also small local initiatives thousands of which do tiny bits of local good. No-one pays their bills for them.

    As for Cyclefree's point about Tory leadership, such is the nature of party membership on all sides that the candidates have no choice but to put reality on one side in order to be elected, and the one who tickles populist unreality best will probably win.

    Whoever that is (Truss I suppose) will eventually and quite soon face various actualities about which they have no choice at all about having to make hard choices.

    I will be extremely surprised if Truss doesn't in fact go down the path of least resistance - let the great-grandchildren foot the bill and keep a show of sorts on the road.

    Care homes. Childcare providers. Hospices.
    The list is lengthy of those who will struggle to keep going. Schools haven't been addressed at all AFAICS.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Omnium said:

    This seems like another cabinet of lightweights.

    Not sure that turning to someone who is thought of as a heavyweight would be beneficial (say Gove). Firstly there's the liklihood that these rather static years will have become an ingrained theme, and secondly if the Tories are going to turn matters around in the next two years they need quite a lot of fresh air. So personally I think the likes of Tugendhat and Badenoch should be more prominent than suggested, and I'd not give Braverman a spot.

    Chancellor is the key role. Kwarteng seems a reasonable choice, but whoever it is is going to have to be quite bold.
    If I were ambitious like Badenoch and Tugendhat I'd be inclined to sit this government out rather than be associated with what will likely be a shitshow followed by defeat. I'd spend time really thinking through what I'd want to do analysing the issues the country faces and coming up with a version of Conservatism which is attractive and relevant to today rather than a pale copy of a government in power before most voters were born. It's not as if Labour is brimming over with good ideas. If Labour is in power after the election, it could quickly find itself in trouble and vulnerable to an invigorated opposition under a genuinely fresh face.
    Before Labour fails in Government it has the small matter of being the largest party in the next Parliament, I am not entirely convinced that this hurdle can be overcome.

    As for your "a genuinely fresh face", good luck with that. The fresh faces in the leadership election, with perhaps the exception of the really quite politically scary Badenoch, comprehensively disappointed. Maybe Wallace is your man, although he certainly fails @isam 's charisma test.
    I don't really care about saving the Tory party. It seems to have pretty much discarded all that was best about it or, even if one didn't agree, worth respecting as a genuine attempt to do right by the country. But now it's a self-serving, unethical and incompetent rabble. All I'm saying is if I were an ambitious Tory thinking for the long-term I'd not be rushing to associate myself with this government too closely.
    You'll have to change the leadership selection rules before you get anyone who doesn't claim to be a rabid right-winger.

    I am not sure letting the grass grow works. For "normal" people to reclaim the Conservative Party they need to follow Starmer's leadership campaign playbook. Maybe that is Truss's wizard wheeze, who knows? The newly minted Lords (and Ladies) Grieve, Gaulke, Allen and Soubry are given the highest offices of state. Wouldn't that be a turn up?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,901

    Dynamo - what is your solution to the war then?

    This is the problem with so many of the 'doves'. They aren't spelling out what they think a deal would look like.

    The war will end as almost all other wars do -- in a negotiated settlement in which both sides have to make concessions.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Energy prices will do for the hospitality sector in a way that Covid didn't.

    A well known and very good pub in Kendal has just had its energy bill go up from £44,000 to £124,000 a year. One of our local pubs has received a 250% increase in their energy bill. It's not just them that suffer if they close but the whole ecosystem of other businesses that depend in part on their trade: the butchers, the wholesale suppliers, the brewers and wine merchants, the cleaning firms, pest control etc etc. All these ripple effects - the loss of business, jobs, rent, licensing fees, rates, tax etc - will be a big problem, one the Tory leadership contenders seem utterly oblivious to.

    All true of course. And people are beginning to notice that the energy crisis has massive knock on effects also for the third sector, which is both large and well known charities but also small local initiatives thousands of which do tiny bits of local good. No-one pays their bills for them.

    As for Cyclefree's point about Tory leadership, such is the nature of party membership on all sides that the candidates have no choice but to put reality on one side in order to be elected, and the one who tickles populist unreality best will probably win.

    Whoever that is (Truss I suppose) will eventually and quite soon face various actualities about which they have no choice at all about having to make hard choices.

    I will be extremely surprised if Truss doesn't in fact go down the path of least resistance - let the great-grandchildren foot the bill and keep a show of sorts on the road.

    Care homes. Childcare providers. Hospices.
    The list is lengthy of those who will struggle to keep going. Schools haven't been addressed at all AFAICS.
    The Guardian was talking about these issues a few days back - a feature/analysis piece interviewing several people, including a care home manager and a school headmaster.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433

    Dynamo - what is your solution to the war then?

    This is the problem with so many of the 'doves'. They aren't spelling out what they think a deal would look like.

    The war will end as almost all other wars do -- in a negotiated settlement in which both sides have to make concessions.
    Russia can send their troops back to Russia, and Ukraine will agree to stop killing them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    moonshine said:

    Pulpstar said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Great



    “A drought in China is threatening food production, prompting the government to order local authorities to take all available measures to ensure crops survive the hottest summer on record.

    On Tuesday, four government departments issued an urgent joint emergency notice, warning that the autumn harvest was under “severe threat”. It urged local authorities to ensure “every unit of water … be used carefully”, and called for methods included staggered irrigation, the diversion of new water sources, and cloud seeding.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/24/china-issues-alert-drought-heatwave-put-crops-at-risk

    This is a big problem and not just for food. The Yangtze is a key industrial highway for raw materials and finished goods, and has hydropower stations with a total of 190Gb of nameplate capacity. That’s without the housing crash and economically destructive zero covid policies of Xi. It’s stagflation write large - simultaneously a massive drag on global growth with supply induced inflation.

    190 GW of nameplate. Christ. Being hydro the
    uptime % will be high too...
    I used to travel all over China to the bits that no tourist would ever want to visit. I’d stare out the window of whatever moving vehicle I was in and wonder how long you could debase the natural environment in the way they were without consequence. It does rather feel like we’ve reached the tipping point. Not that we are blameless. We in the West have been all too keen to export dangerous and dirty industries East.

    I’ve had exactly the same eco-epiphany when travelling in Asia

    I recall flying into industrial north India a few years ago and looking down from the plane I saw nothing but chimneys and foundries belching smoke. Like a scene from early Victorian Cornwall or the Potteries

    And I thought: the world will not easily survive this

    My anxieties have only grown

    As you say it is hypocritical to complain. We are already wealthy. We have already industrialised. Who are we to tell Asians or Africans they can’t have aircon or cars?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,822
    DavidL said:

    BBC
    "Top UK politician in Kyiv for Independence Day celebrations
    The chair of the UK parliament's foreign affairs committee and former Conservative leadership candidate Tom Tugendhat has travelled to Kyiv for Ukraine's Independence Day celebrations."

    This reminds me of the standing joke in Parliament House that the only way we ever get to be called a "top" lawyer is to really screw something up or get caught misbehaving. By what definition, other than a piece of journalese, is Tugendhat a "top" politician?

    Well there was quite a bit of plaintive fanboi-Ing at the start of his leadership bid. Sorry, his ‘leadership bid’.

    His enthusiastic endorsement of Truss sorted that out.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1562188238558617600?t=zXbk2tIdM98gnQvcCIvnig&s=19
    Siri, take a photo of me so my top half looks like a cardboard cut out of Miles Jupp
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Dynamo said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Great



    “A drought in China is threatening food production, prompting the government to order local authorities to take all available measures to ensure crops survive the hottest summer on record.

    On Tuesday, four government departments issued an urgent joint emergency notice, warning that the autumn harvest was under “severe threat”. It urged local authorities to ensure “every unit of water … be used carefully”, and called for methods included staggered irrigation, the diversion of new water sources, and cloud seeding.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/24/china-issues-alert-drought-heatwave-put-crops-at-risk

    This is a big problem and not just for food. The Yangtze is a key industrial highway for raw materials and finished goods, and has hydropower stations with a total of 190Gb of nameplate capacity. That’s without the housing crash and economically destructive zero covid policies of Xi. It’s stagflation write large - simultaneously a massive drag on global growth with supply induced inflation.

    What's so good about global growth?
    Makes people less poor.
    exponentially increases the absolute number of poor people
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,901
    Sandpit said:

    Dynamo - what is your solution to the war then?

    This is the problem with so many of the 'doves'. They aren't spelling out what they think a deal would look like.

    The war will end as almost all other wars do -- in a negotiated settlement in which both sides have to make concessions.
    Russia can send their troops back to Russia, and Ukraine will agree to stop killing them.
    Yes, Russian troops are dying ... and Ukrainians are dying as well.

    And eventually enough will have been killed that the war will come to a stop.

    And that is where the de facto boundary of Russia & Ukraine will be.

    You may not like it, I may not like it. But that is how wars end.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,822
    edited August 2022

    Dynamo - what is your solution to the war then?

    This is the problem with so many of the 'doves'. They aren't spelling out what they think a deal would look like.

    The war will end as almost all other wars do -- in a negotiated settlement in which both sides have to make concessions.
    Yep, either with Ukraine or Russia negotiating from positions of strength, or much more likely both sides exhausted by attrition, and suffering from the weariness of allies for Ukraine and the general population for Russia. Of course to even suggest this puts you on some people’s watch lists.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,306
    Russian Defense Minister #Shoigu: "The slowdown of the offensive in #Ukraine is a conscious decision due to the desire to minimize civilian casualties, the special operation is going according to plan".

    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1562342986188455937
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,306
    Scott_xP said:
    “In the emerging orthodoxy, the Prime Minister cannot be dislodged between elections…”

    What? This is completely divorced from reality.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,523

    Russian Defense Minister #Shoigu: "The slowdown of the offensive in #Ukraine is a conscious decision due to the desire to minimize civilian casualties, the special operation is going according to plan".

    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1562342986188455937

    sure.... sure.....
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,993

    Dynamo - what is your solution to the war then?

    This is the problem with so many of the 'doves'. They aren't spelling out what they think a deal would look like.

    The war will end as almost all other wars do -- in a negotiated settlement in which both sides have to make concessions.
    Yep, either with Ukraine or Russia negotiating from positions of strength, or much more likely both sides exhausted by attrition, and suffering from the weariness of allies for Ukraine and the general population for Russia. Of course to even suggest this puts you on some people’s watch lists.
    You too easily discount what I now see as the base case. The near collapse of the Russian military machine and borders returning more or less to pre-2014.

    The difference with this war and most is there is no appetite from Ukraine to launch a counter invasion, especially not one with the same goals its invader had (i.e. somewhere between regime change and full territorial annexation).

    The compromise from Ukraine will be non interference in Russia’s internal affairs and no demands for reparations.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175

    “In the emerging orthodoxy, the Prime Minister cannot be dislodged between elections…”

    What? This is completely divorced from reality.

    Yes, and it is being espoused by the current Tory party
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    edited August 2022

    Russian Defense Minister #Shoigu: "The slowdown of the offensive in #Ukraine is a conscious decision due to the desire to minimize civilian casualties, the special operation is going according to plan".

    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1562342986188455937

    Deaths in this conflict so far.

    Ukranian civilians: c. 5,000
    Ukranian military: c. 9,000
    Russian civilians: a handful
    Russian military: c. 45,000

    Who do we think he’s actually trying to avoid killing?

    The one thing the special operation war is definitely not doing, is going according to plan.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 8,308
    Scott_xP said:
    Wow. That quote below by Spock seems to be saying that Liz will now be the sole moral arbiter of all that happens in government.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,822

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1562188238558617600?t=zXbk2tIdM98gnQvcCIvnig&s=19
    Siri, take a photo of me so my top half looks like a cardboard cut out of Miles Jupp

    Jeezo, I went quite far down the replies and still couldn’t find one that wasn’t taking the piss.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992

    Scott_xP said:
    “In the emerging orthodoxy, the Prime Minister cannot be dislodged between elections…”

    What? This is completely divorced from reality.
    Meeks quite clearly states this commentary was "noted a while back". Were it not for the excellent work of Chris Pincher, Meek's assertion was, and might have continued to hold true. Thanks to Mr Pincher, Meek's conclusion has been disproved, for now at least.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175

    Wow. That quote below by Spock seems to be saying that Liz will now be the sole moral arbiter of all that happens in government.

    Yes.

    The "infallible" Supreme Commander.

    If the PM says it, it must by definition be true, and legal, and ethical.

    Not Trumpian, at all...

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,306
    Scott_xP said:

    “In the emerging orthodoxy, the Prime Minister cannot be dislodged between elections…”

    What? This is completely divorced from reality.

    Yes, and it is being espoused by the current Tory party
    You’re living in a parallel universe.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,041
    Scott_xP said:

    “In the emerging orthodoxy, the Prime Minister cannot be dislodged between elections…”

    What? This is completely divorced from reality.

    Yes, and it is being espoused by the current Tory party
    The same "current Tory party" that just, erm, dislodged a PM between elections?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175

    Were it not for the excellent work of Chris Pincher, Meek's assertion was, and might have continued to hold true. Thanks to Mr Pincher, Meek's conclusion has been disproved, for now at least.

    But there are a large number of Tory members who are trying to overturn (sic) that

    They want BoZo to unresign
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    edited August 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Wow. That quote below by Spock seems to be saying that Liz will now be the sole moral arbiter of all that happens in government.

    Yes.

    The "infallible" Supreme Commander.

    If the PM says it, it must by definition be true, and legal, and ethical.

    Not Trumpian, at all...

    As the economy heads on its Zimbabwean trajectory, why not go full-on Mugabe?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175

    You’re living in a parallel universe.

    Lord Cruddas urges Boris Johnson to WITHDRAW resignation as a poll reveals the majority of Tory members are unhappy at the way he was removed from office.  https://www.politicalite.com/boris/exclusive-lord-cruddas-urges-boris-johnson-to-withdraw-resignation/ #BackBoris
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,306
    edited August 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    You’re living in a parallel universe.

    Lord Cruddas urges Boris Johnson to WITHDRAW resignation as a poll reveals the majority of Tory members are unhappy at the way he was removed from office.  https://www.politicalite.com/boris/exclusive-lord-cruddas-urges-boris-johnson-to-withdraw-resignation/ #BackBoris
    BREAKING: Man has opinion.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,401
    kinabalu said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    Is it doing the thing where it forces you to watch random short videos aka "reels" from complete strangers?

    It's all part of Meta's drive to turn all their services into tiktok clones.

    They tried it with Instagram and people rightly told them to eff off.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jul/26/instagram-changes-user-backlash-trying-to-be-tiktok

    Social media these days seems all about pushing content on you from complete strangers, whereas I thought the point of it was to be able to connect with friends.
    Facebook is doomed. It has no USP and it has been largely abandoned by people under 40. People under 25 laugh when you ask them if they use it. They regard it as cringe and embarrassing

    It will fall off a cliff very shortly
    Mmmm ..... So, lemme see, Facebook's decline set in shortly after the appointment of (Sir) Nicholas William Peter Clegg.

    The LibDems can tell Facebook what happens next. Cringe and embarrassment is followed by dire catastrophe.
    The problem with the Facebook properties is there's absolutely no innovation. They just look at what's popular at the moment (e.g. tiktok) and copy its exact features.

    The trouble is, the people who want to be on tiktok are already on tiktok. So when they try to turn instagram or facebook into tiktok, they alienate their already dwindling customer base.

    Long term, Facebook have bet the farm on us all existing in the "metaverse" within the next decade, a nebulous term that most people understand as a sort of "wear a VR headset all day, visit branded websites in a virtual corporate dystopia" - so you can see why most people are sceptical.

    As I said downthread, I liked social media when it was about bringing me closer to friends and family (especially ones who live far away). Not influencers, not corporations, not endless memes, videos and ads.

    I don't think there's any social media platform really offering genuine and meaningful connections these days.

    I get more out of posting here, or on a few niche subreddits, and a couple of other forums related to my interests. The thing that unites all the places I hang out online is they all feel like they have a distinct community.

    PB is very much like a comfy pub full of regulars (some of whom start drinking very early...)
    We have a family WhatsApp which works quite well. Eg it was my birthday recently and once I'd received all my cards - some were late but no problem, I don't lose my shit about things like that - I took a photo of them all in a row on the shelf and posted it to the group with a smiley face and a couple of kisses. Nice for me to be able to do this, nice for everybody else to receive such a message because - (a) it confirmed I'd actually got the cards they'd sent and (b) it showed I was appreciative and they should therefore carry on doing it.
    Yup.

    It feels strange now to think there was a time, maybe less than a decade ago, where many of us (though few would admit it now) would have posted a photo like that to a completely public site, shared with anyone and everyone. And much more personal stuff besides.

    Part of me thinks the social media pivot towards influencer crap, americas-funniest-home-videos style content and endless memeposting is simply because all the people posting the stuff you want to see (friends and family) went private to groups like this. Leaving only the dross behind on social media.

    The other thing I think that turned people off was around the time it all got political, circa 2016. It was pretty much impossible to avoid someone posting their political views (and unlike here, there wasn't much informed debate). That's certainly around the time I shut off.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,041
    Scott_xP said:

    Were it not for the excellent work of Chris Pincher, Meek's assertion was, and might have continued to hold true. Thanks to Mr Pincher, Meek's conclusion has been disproved, for now at least.

    But there are a large number of Tory members who are trying to overturn (sic) that

    They want [Boris] to unresign
    Which isn't going to happen.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,822
    moonshine said:

    Dynamo - what is your solution to the war then?

    This is the problem with so many of the 'doves'. They aren't spelling out what they think a deal would look like.

    The war will end as almost all other wars do -- in a negotiated settlement in which both sides have to make concessions.
    Yep, either with Ukraine or Russia negotiating from positions of strength, or much more likely both sides exhausted by attrition, and suffering from the weariness of allies for Ukraine and the general population for Russia. Of course to even suggest this puts you on some people’s watch lists.
    You too easily discount what I now see as the base case. The near collapse of the Russian military machine and borders returning more or less to pre-2014.

    The difference with this war and most is there is no appetite from Ukraine to launch a counter invasion, especially not one with the same goals its invader had (i.e. somewhere between regime change and full territorial annexation).

    The compromise from Ukraine will be non interference in Russia’s internal affairs and no demands for reparations.
    It would be tasteless to frame a bet on this but I would need quite high odds against to back your scenario over mine. The imminent collapse of the Russian military has been a weekly feature of the armchair general staff from week 1, almost on a par with Putin about to cark it, though the ongoing presence of the horrible little goblin on this mortal coil has pretty much silenced the latter forlorn hope.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference

    The reality is there are lots of Tory members who want to keep BoZo.

    That you are denying reality is not my problem
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,306
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference

    The reality is there are lots of Tory members who want to keep BoZo.

    That you are denying reality is not my problem
    Even in his resignation BoJo is turning his opponents’ brains into blancmange.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,914
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT - I think the deal is obvious.

    The UK needs to agree with France that boats can be intercepted by them in French waters, with their permission, and all aboard landed back in Calais. No-one gets into UK waters.

    The UK then agrees to accept a quota of vulnerable migrants directly from France once (and only once) these claims have been processed in country.

    Sweeten the deal with lots of cash. Royal Navy also helps out France in the Med in return.

    As the bulk of the people on the boats come from countries where there is no legal route for them to claim asylum, how about we offer one? Nobody would go on the boat if there was an alternative.
    If we did that, how many do you think would apply and qualify?

    It could go up one-hundred fold.

    This is no answer without an answer on numbers.
    The answer remains that the current asylum process is unsustainable and unfit for purpose. It cannot long survive into the century where climate and population growth in unstable countries is going to result in unsustainable flows of people to more temperate and prosperous climes. This is what the government is trying to wrestle with with its "hostile environment" and now the Rwanda nonsense, neither of which even begin to address the pressures in the system.

    It also leads to complete absurdities. I was speaking to a friend yesterday who is acting for someone who has overstayed his academic visa because he has now got his qualifications and is employed by a front rank Scottish University teaching computing science. We are trying to send him back to Nigeria. Its completely absurd. We absolutely need people like this.

    Once we accept that asylum is entirely at our discretion and that we choose who comes here and whom we want or need immigration will not stop but it will be directed at our needs rather than those who are less fortunate. Harsh, but inevitable in my view.
    Without Rwanda, how do you stop the boats?

    Unless you’re prepared to sink them/watch people drown, Rwanda is the only option

    All this guff about “processing centres” is so much bullshit. France won’t do a deal with us because they want as many of them as possible in the UK, rather than France

    Simple as

    And they will keep crossing the Channel, rather than taking legal routes. because they know once they are here sans papiers we will shrug and say Stay
    Rwanda is an expensive waste of time and will deter no one. It does generate a good headline mind. See the Israeli effort in Rwanda, the free to roam detainees all roamed back to where they intended to first go.

    Your option B might work if anyone is heartless enough to try and sink the boats.

    Maybe as Rochdale suggested earlier, if we made more of an effort to tackle the organised criminal gangs that are working the illegal entries and running the immigrants by providing illegal employment once they are here, that would be significantly more useful than the half-assed idea of sending a couple of plane loads of Afghans, Vietnamese and Kurds to Rwanda each year. If they got to the UK once they can do it again.

    Rwanda will deter people if they know they'll actually be sent there.

    If they're not, then it won't.

    The Australian system worked by saying everyone, regardless of circumstances, would go.
    And that's the point.

    If the Home Office really wanted a scheme like Rwanda to work, it would need to have capacity for up to a thousand people a day for as long as it takes. That period of time might not be long, but that's the initial capacity needed.

    What the UK bought was a lowish number of hundreds of places a year, becuase that's what Rwanda can absorb.

    Judging the scheme on its own terms, it has to be Go Big or Go Home, becuause otherwise people won't Stay Home. That's true whatever you think of the ethics, legality or democratic mandate for the scheme.

    Since it that isn't happening, it's a plan that can't work. The kindest explanation is that the Home Office are too dim to se it can't work. But we can't exclude the possibility that it's a gimmick (look we're doin' somethin') or a wedge (we wanted to do somethin', but the liberal judges banned it). And if that's what's happenin', it's a cruel trick.
    I agree with this

    I was fully supportive of Rwanda as a concept but from the start I was highly skeptical that the government had the will, spine or energy to make it
    work: which means flying EVERYONE to Rwanda for weeks or even months

    And so it is. If, as you say, they knew this all along then it is indeed cruel as well as lame

    Nonetheless we will have to address this dilemma at some point. The migrants will not stop, they will grow in number. Either we say “if you can make it here you stay” - which will mean millions, transforming the UK in a way we cannot imagine - or we will have to get tough

    And so it will come back to the same brutal choice. Physically push the boats back and risk drowning people - or something like Rwanda

    There are no other alternatives. All this stuff about legal routes and “processing centres” is so much piffle for people who can’t or won’t address reality
    It's right that drastic problems encourage drastic responses but I don't see why they should necessarily be of the inhumane National Populist kind. Perhaps at some point soon the need for a new international convention/infrastructure for refugees - objective being an equitable sharing of numbers across nations - will become obvious and the graft and political skill to make it happen will come forth. Not saying it definitely will but what I am saying is the choice between the extremes of "open borders, let's all have a singsong" and "bastards can't come here, let em drown!" is a false binary, which half the time gets framed by people who, I sense, rather fancy that latter approach.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Brian Whitmore
    @PowerVertical
    ·
    Aug 23
    A Ukrainian victory against Russia will be a paradigm-shifting event for European security - similar to what occurred in 1989. In fact, it could be something of a 1989 redux. 1/6

    Brian Whitmore
    @PowerVertical
    ·
    Aug 23
    Ukrainians are fighting not just for their own sovereignty and independence, but also for the second liberation of Eastern Europe, finishing the process that began in 1989. 5/6

    https://twitter.com/PowerVertical/status/1561909180239433728
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799
    IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Great



    “A drought in China is threatening food production, prompting the government to order local authorities to take all available measures to ensure crops survive the hottest summer on record.

    On Tuesday, four government departments issued an urgent joint emergency notice, warning that the autumn harvest was under “severe threat”. It urged local authorities to ensure “every unit of water … be used carefully”, and called for methods included staggered irrigation, the diversion of new water sources, and cloud seeding.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/24/china-issues-alert-drought-heatwave-put-crops-at-risk

    This is a big problem and not just for food. The Yangtze is a key industrial highway for raw materials and finished goods, and has hydropower stations with a total of 190Gb of nameplate capacity. That’s without the housing crash and economically destructive zero covid policies of Xi. It’s stagflation write large - simultaneously a massive drag on global growth with supply induced inflation.

    190 GW of nameplate. Christ. Being hydro the uptime % will be high too...
    One in the eye for Barts theory that the wily Chinaman only burns coal for energy, just to troll the rest of us.
    Unfortunately the drought, and the collapse of hydro power, means that they will be burning millions of tonnes more coal for the next year or more. It makes our efforts almost pointless and instead indicates that mitigation of the consequences might be a more realistic way to go.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,041
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference
    Which, erm, isn't until after Boris will have been replaced.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,822

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference

    The reality is there are lots of Tory members who want to keep BoZo.

    That you are denying reality is not my problem
    Even in his resignation BoJo is turning his opponents’ brains into blancmange.
    A development welcomed by his supporters for providing a level playing field presumably.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    Scott_xP said:

    Were it not for the excellent work of Chris Pincher, Meek's assertion was, and might have continued to hold true. Thanks to Mr Pincher, Meek's conclusion has been disproved, for now at least.

    But there are a large number of Tory members who are trying to overturn (sic) that

    They want BoZo to unresign
    Which, were that to occur makes Meek's conclusion all the more pertinent.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799

    Scott_xP said:

    You’re living in a parallel universe.

    Lord Cruddas urges Boris Johnson to WITHDRAW resignation as a poll reveals the majority of Tory members are unhappy at the way he was removed from office.  https://www.politicalite.com/boris/exclusive-lord-cruddas-urges-boris-johnson-to-withdraw-resignation/ #BackBoris
    BREAKING: Man has opinion.
    It's ok though, he isn't actually a government minister so he is allowed to have one.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,942
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference

    The reality is there are lots of Tory members who want to keep BoZo.

    That you are denying reality is not my problem
    So the only way to have a flexible representative political system is for everyone to march in perfect lock step. And not express options contrary to the Party Line?

    It is a good thing that BJ resigned, however in a democracy the Right to be Wrong is valuable.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference

    The reality is there are lots of Tory members who want to keep BoZo.

    That you are denying reality is not my problem
    Even in his resignation BoJo is turning his opponents’ brains into blancmange.
    Cruddas is on Team Johnson. He is no opponent, although yes he has blancmange for brains.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,568
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference

    The reality is there are lots of Tory members who want to keep BoZo.

    That you are denying reality is not my problem
    If Johnson chose to stay who would serve under him ?

    All of the so called big names wouldn't.

    It would be an impossible situation.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799

    DavidL said:

    BBC
    "Top UK politician in Kyiv for Independence Day celebrations
    The chair of the UK parliament's foreign affairs committee and former Conservative leadership candidate Tom Tugendhat has travelled to Kyiv for Ukraine's Independence Day celebrations."

    This reminds me of the standing joke in Parliament House that the only way we ever get to be called a "top" lawyer is to really screw something up or get caught misbehaving. By what definition, other than a piece of journalese, is Tugendhat a "top" politician?

    Well there was quite a bit of plaintive fanboi-Ing at the start of his leadership bid. Sorry, his ‘leadership bid’.

    His enthusiastic endorsement of Truss sorted that out.
    It was the slightly weird fact that he spoke in complete sentences that attracted some attention initially, at least amongst political obsessives such as contributors to this board. But it was quickly ascertained the actual content was banal to boring.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 20,039
    DougSeal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    I stopped using Facebook ages ago as the platform is utter shite now.

    Just went to check and I've got more things showing "suggested for you" from Pages I don't follow than posts from my actual Friends that I do. And that's not even including the ads. At many points scrolling down it shows "suggested message", ad, "suggested message".

    No thanks. If I was interested in those pages, I'd be following them, I'm not.
    I might reactivate my FB account just to see what today’s fuss is about. Deactivation is about the only decent feature they have - you can switch it back on when needed but the rest of the time safely leave it dormant and ignored.

    I'm only an intermittent user (a couple of times a week, mostly for local political controversies) but checked this out - I see a few sponsored posts (=adverts) in my feed but no "suggestions". It doesn't feel very disturbing. If you don't use FB much, I suppose the feed is bound to be mostly ads, because real people will have learned to contact you in other ways?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference

    The reality is there are lots of Tory members who want to keep BoZo.

    That you are denying reality is not my problem
    How soon can Team Johnson launch a no confidence vote on La Truss?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Driver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference
    Which, erm, isn't until after Boris will have been replaced.
    I'm proposing a motion that MacMillan is alive, still PM and that legally and officially nobody has ever had it so good. If it passes, all laws since 1963 are invalid
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,993
    edited August 2022
    .
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    BBC
    "Top UK politician in Kyiv for Independence Day celebrations
    The chair of the UK parliament's foreign affairs committee and former Conservative leadership candidate Tom Tugendhat has travelled to Kyiv for Ukraine's Independence Day celebrations."

    This reminds me of the standing joke in Parliament House that the only way we ever get to be called a "top" lawyer is to really screw something up or get caught misbehaving. By what definition, other than a piece of journalese, is Tugendhat a "top" politician?

    Well there was quite a bit of plaintive fanboi-Ing at the start of his leadership bid. Sorry, his ‘leadership bid’.

    His enthusiastic endorsement of Truss sorted that out.
    It was the slightly weird fact that he spoke in complete sentences that attracted some attention initially, at least amongst political obsessives such as contributors to this board. But it was quickly ascertained the actual content was banal to boring.
    Tugendhat has been standing alone for years in recognising that we are engaged in an economic war with Chinese autocracy. And that one of the prudent measures we should take is to ensure national strategic resiliency. The banality is what we’ve had the last decade or two, with consecutive executives treating the governance of the nation as a little more than a game of balancing ledgers and increasing the tax take.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Outstanding thread:

    Ruth Deyermond
    @ruth_deyermond
    Tomorrow marks six months since Russia launched its unprovoked attack on Ukraine, so this seems like a good moment to take a look at how things have turned out for Russia so far. Apologies, even more than usual, for the length of this thread.

    https://twitter.com/ruth_deyermond/status/1562114194639671298
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    Taz said:

    If Johnson chose to stay who would serve under him ?

    All of the so called big names wouldn't.

    It would be an impossible situation.

    I think we would be unpleasantly surprised how many people would return to the trough.

    Like Zahawi, who said BoZo must quit but accepted the job of chancellor.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,230

    Driver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference
    Which, erm, isn't until after Boris will have been replaced.
    I'm proposing a motion that MacMillan is alive, still PM and that legally and officially nobody has ever had it so good. If it passes, all laws since 1963 are invalid
    Folk won't like the back taxes due.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649

    DougSeal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    I stopped using Facebook ages ago as the platform is utter shite now.

    Just went to check and I've got more things showing "suggested for you" from Pages I don't follow than posts from my actual Friends that I do. And that's not even including the ads. At many points scrolling down it shows "suggested message", ad, "suggested message".

    No thanks. If I was interested in those pages, I'd be following them, I'm not.
    I might reactivate my FB account just to see what today’s fuss is about. Deactivation is about the only decent feature they have - you can switch it back on when needed but the rest of the time safely leave it dormant and ignored.

    I'm only an intermittent user (a couple of times a week, mostly for local political controversies) but checked this out - I see a few sponsored posts (=adverts) in my feed but no "suggestions". It doesn't feel very disturbing. If you don't use FB much, I suppose the feed is bound to be mostly ads, because real people will have learned to contact you in other ways?
    There are a few groups im a member of. Dedicated to memories/photos of where i grew up, some other interests etc. But its very noticable that my friends lives are increasingly not expressed via that medium.
    Instagram i barely look at any more, snapchat went many years ago, but ive not yet started grinding for dollars on tik tok
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,853
    edited August 2022
    If anyone wants some free cash by November you can lay a Republican House on Betfair at 1.29/1.3, and back at Smarkets for 1.33/1.35.

    Not worth it for me as I'm on PC at BF - but it just about keeps up with inflation if you're not...

    The true price according to 538 is 1.27, but last night's special elections push that up a touch imo - so a lay on the BF side might be the value.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference

    The reality is there are lots of Tory members who want to keep BoZo.

    That you are denying reality is not my problem
    Even in his resignation BoJo is turning his opponents’ brains into blancmange.
    A development welcomed by his supporters for providing a level playing field presumably.
    For blancmange-wrestling? The mind boggles.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,568
    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    If Johnson chose to stay who would serve under him ?

    All of the so called big names wouldn't.

    It would be an impossible situation.

    I think we would be unpleasantly surprised how many people would return to the trough.

    Like Zahawi, who said BoZo must quit but accepted the job of chancellor.
    Nothing would surprise me with the political classes.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    dixiedean said:

    Driver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference
    Which, erm, isn't until after Boris will have been replaced.
    I'm proposing a motion that MacMillan is alive, still PM and that legally and officially nobody has ever had it so good. If it passes, all laws since 1963 are invalid
    Folk won't like the back taxes due.
    Gay men will also be somewhat non plussed and a several tens of millions not thrilled to be back under Empire.
    I didnt say it was a good plan
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,942
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT - I think the deal is obvious.

    The UK needs to agree with France that boats can be intercepted by them in French waters, with their permission, and all aboard landed back in Calais. No-one gets into UK waters.

    The UK then agrees to accept a quota of vulnerable migrants directly from France once (and only once) these claims have been processed in country.

    Sweeten the deal with lots of cash. Royal Navy also helps out France in the Med in return.

    As the bulk of the people on the boats come from countries where there is no legal route for them to claim asylum, how about we offer one? Nobody would go on the boat if there was an alternative.
    If we did that, how many do you think would apply and qualify?

    It could go up one-hundred fold.

    This is no answer without an answer on numbers.
    The answer remains that the current asylum process is unsustainable and unfit for purpose. It cannot long survive into the century where climate and population growth in unstable countries is going to result in unsustainable flows of people to more temperate and prosperous climes. This is what the government is trying to wrestle with with its "hostile environment" and now the Rwanda nonsense, neither of which even begin to address the pressures in the system.

    It also leads to complete absurdities. I was speaking to a friend yesterday who is acting for someone who has overstayed his academic visa because he has now got his qualifications and is employed by a front rank Scottish University teaching computing science. We are trying to send him back to Nigeria. Its completely absurd. We absolutely need people like this.

    Once we accept that asylum is entirely at our discretion and that we choose who comes here and whom we want or need immigration will not stop but it will be directed at our needs rather than those who are less fortunate. Harsh, but inevitable in my view.
    Without Rwanda, how do you stop the boats?

    Unless you’re prepared to sink them/watch people drown, Rwanda is the only option

    All this guff about “processing centres” is so much bullshit. France won’t do a deal with us because they want as many of them as possible in the UK, rather than France

    Simple as

    And they will keep crossing the Channel, rather than taking legal routes. because they know once they are here sans papiers we will shrug and say Stay
    Rwanda is an expensive waste of time and will deter no one. It does generate a good headline mind. See the Israeli effort in Rwanda, the free to roam detainees all roamed back to where they intended to first go.

    Your option B might work if anyone is heartless enough to try and sink the boats.

    Maybe as Rochdale suggested earlier, if we made more of an effort to tackle the organised criminal gangs that are working the illegal entries and running the immigrants by providing illegal employment once they are here, that would be significantly more useful than the half-assed idea of sending a couple of plane loads of Afghans, Vietnamese and Kurds to Rwanda each year. If they got to the UK once they can do it again.

    Rwanda will deter people if they know they'll actually be sent there.

    If they're not, then it won't.

    The Australian system worked by saying everyone, regardless of circumstances, would go.
    And that's the point.

    If the Home Office really wanted a scheme like Rwanda to work, it would need to have capacity for up to a thousand people a day for as long as it takes. That period of time might not be long, but that's the initial capacity needed.

    What the UK bought was a lowish number of hundreds of places a year, becuase that's what Rwanda can absorb.

    Judging the scheme on its own terms, it has to be Go Big or Go Home, becuause otherwise people won't Stay Home. That's true whatever you think of the ethics, legality or democratic mandate for the scheme.

    Since it that isn't happening, it's a plan that can't work. The kindest explanation is that the Home Office are too dim to se it can't work. But we can't exclude the possibility that it's a gimmick (look we're doin' somethin') or a wedge (we wanted to do somethin', but the liberal judges banned it). And if that's what's happenin', it's a cruel trick.
    I agree with this

    I was fully supportive of Rwanda as a concept but from the start I was highly skeptical that the government had the will, spine or energy to make it
    work: which means flying EVERYONE to Rwanda for weeks or even months

    And so it is. If, as you say, they knew this all along then it is indeed cruel as well as lame

    Nonetheless we will have to address this dilemma at some point. The migrants will not stop, they will grow in number. Either we say “if you can make it here you stay” - which will mean millions, transforming the UK in a way we cannot imagine - or we will have to get tough

    And so it will come back to the same brutal choice. Physically push the boats back and risk drowning people - or something like Rwanda

    There are no other alternatives. All this stuff about legal routes and “processing centres” is so much piffle for people who can’t or won’t address reality
    It's right that drastic problems encourage drastic responses but I don't see why they should necessarily be of the inhumane National Populist kind. Perhaps at some point soon the need for a new international convention/infrastructure for refugees - objective being an equitable sharing of numbers across nations - will become obvious and the graft and political skill to make it happen will come forth. Not saying it definitely will but what I am saying is the choice between the extremes of "open borders, let's all have a singsong" and "bastards can't come here, let em drown!" is a false binary, which half the time gets framed by people who, I sense, rather fancy that latter approach.
    I like the reaction that the idea of massive penalties* for employers of non eligible workers gets from some people.

    *my extra wrinkle is that the employee gets a massive reward for shopping the employer. And an indefinite leave to remain visa. All on successful conviction.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 9,061
    Baroness Dorries of Boris has a nice ring to it.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,401

    DougSeal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    I stopped using Facebook ages ago as the platform is utter shite now.

    Just went to check and I've got more things showing "suggested for you" from Pages I don't follow than posts from my actual Friends that I do. And that's not even including the ads. At many points scrolling down it shows "suggested message", ad, "suggested message".

    No thanks. If I was interested in those pages, I'd be following them, I'm not.
    I might reactivate my FB account just to see what today’s fuss is about. Deactivation is about the only decent feature they have - you can switch it back on when needed but the rest of the time safely leave it dormant and ignored.

    I'm only an intermittent user (a couple of times a week, mostly for local political controversies) but checked this out - I see a few sponsored posts (=adverts) in my feed but no "suggestions". It doesn't feel very disturbing. If you don't use FB much, I suppose the feed is bound to be mostly ads, because real people will have learned to contact you in other ways?
    In terms of keeping in touch with people (rather than sharing with everyone) one of the biggest problems I now have is working out who prefers which method of contact.

    To contact various people of my acquaintance, I now have the following options

    Phone call, text message, email, whatsapp, facebook messenger, signal, telegram, instagram dm, linkedin dm, twitter dm, microsoft teams, zoom call, google meet.

    And that's just the ones I remember off the top of my head.

    Generally whatsapp/phone number works best, but sometimes (e.g. a friend you only talk to once a year) the number changes or you don't have it or whatever.

    The number of times I've sent people a message on the platform I think they use most only to receive a reply back "sorry, don't use this any more, message me on xxxxxx platform instead next time..."
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,507
    Scott_xP said:

    Were it not for the excellent work of Chris Pincher, Meek's assertion was, and might have continued to hold true. Thanks to Mr Pincher, Meek's conclusion has been disproved, for now at least.

    But there are a large number of Tory members who are trying to overturn (sic) that

    They want BoZo to unresign
    No they are not trying to overturn it, they can't. Opinion polls of them might suggest they prefer Johnson, but that is not the same as 'trying to overturn' it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,942

    dixiedean said:

    Driver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference
    Which, erm, isn't until after Boris will have been replaced.
    I'm proposing a motion that MacMillan is alive, still PM and that legally and officially nobody has ever had it so good. If it passes, all laws since 1963 are invalid
    Folk won't like the back taxes due.
    Gay men will also be somewhat non plussed and a several tens of millions not thrilled to be back under Empire.
    I didnt say it was a good plan
    {gathers spanners, Imperial sizes}

    Skybolt on Vulcans you say…

    {scratches head}

    Orrrrar… it’ll cost you a bit….

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    ...

    dixiedean said:

    Driver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference
    Which, erm, isn't until after Boris will have been replaced.
    I'm proposing a motion that MacMillan is alive, still PM and that legally and officially nobody has ever had it so good. If it passes, all laws since 1963 are invalid
    Folk won't like the back taxes due.
    Gay men will also be somewhat non plussed and a several tens of millions not thrilled to be back under Empire.
    I didnt say it was a good plan
    We do get capital punishment which should cheer many die-hard (no pun) Conservatives. A bit late for National Service which will disappoint.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    kyf_100 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    I stopped using Facebook ages ago as the platform is utter shite now.

    Just went to check and I've got more things showing "suggested for you" from Pages I don't follow than posts from my actual Friends that I do. And that's not even including the ads. At many points scrolling down it shows "suggested message", ad, "suggested message".

    No thanks. If I was interested in those pages, I'd be following them, I'm not.
    I might reactivate my FB account just to see what today’s fuss is about. Deactivation is about the only decent feature they have - you can switch it back on when needed but the rest of the time safely leave it dormant and ignored.

    I'm only an intermittent user (a couple of times a week, mostly for local political controversies) but checked this out - I see a few sponsored posts (=adverts) in my feed but no "suggestions". It doesn't feel very disturbing. If you don't use FB much, I suppose the feed is bound to be mostly ads, because real people will have learned to contact you in other ways?
    In terms of keeping in touch with people (rather than sharing with everyone) one of the biggest problems I now have is working out who prefers which method of contact.

    To contact various people of my acquaintance, I now have the following options

    Phone call, text message, email, whatsapp, facebook messenger, signal, telegram, instagram dm, linkedin dm, twitter dm, microsoft teams, zoom call, google meet.

    And that's just the ones I remember off the top of my head.

    Generally whatsapp/phone number works best, but sometimes (e.g. a friend you only talk to once a year) the number changes or you don't have it or whatever.

    The number of times I've sent people a message on the platform I think they use most only to receive a reply back "sorry, don't use this any more, message me on xxxxxx platform instead next time..."
    Interesting that a letter or a postcard don't appear on your mental radar.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175

    No they are not trying to overturn it

    They really are.

    Cruddas wants BoZo to unresign.

    They want a vote at conference to make/keep BoZo leader.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779

    ...

    dixiedean said:

    Driver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference
    Which, erm, isn't until after Boris will have been replaced.
    I'm proposing a motion that MacMillan is alive, still PM and that legally and officially nobody has ever had it so good. If it passes, all laws since 1963 are invalid
    Folk won't like the back taxes due.
    Gay men will also be somewhat non plussed and a several tens of millions not thrilled to be back under Empire.
    I didnt say it was a good plan
    We do get capital punishment which should cheer many die-hard (no pun) Conservatives. A bit late for National Service which will disappoint.
    National Servicemen were still serving in 1963.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,306
    edited August 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    No they are not trying to overturn it

    They really are.

    Cruddas wants BoZo to unresign.

    They want a vote at conference to make/keep BoZo leader.
    So what? There were lots of people who wanted Blair to stay too. Thatcher was famously asked to "cancel the resignation".

    You have lost the plot because BoJo triggers some completely irrational part of your brain.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799
    dixiedean said:

    Driver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference
    Which, erm, isn't until after Boris will have been replaced.
    I'm proposing a motion that MacMillan is alive, still PM and that legally and officially nobody has ever had it so good. If it passes, all laws since 1963 are invalid
    Folk won't like the back taxes due.
    Nah, that will be fine. They won't amount to much more than £25, 3shillings and 6d.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649

    ...

    dixiedean said:

    Driver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference
    Which, erm, isn't until after Boris will have been replaced.
    I'm proposing a motion that MacMillan is alive, still PM and that legally and officially nobody has ever had it so good. If it passes, all laws since 1963 are invalid
    Folk won't like the back taxes due.
    Gay men will also be somewhat non plussed and a several tens of millions not thrilled to be back under Empire.
    I didnt say it was a good plan
    We do get capital punishment which should cheer many die-hard (no pun) Conservatives. A bit late for National Service which will disappoint.
    And obviously proper currency. And we havent got involved with the Benelux, France, Italy and Germany experimental european market yet. They had awful problems with their common agricultural policy last year
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,942

    Scott_xP said:

    No they are not trying to overturn it

    They really are.

    Cruddas wants BoZo to unresign.

    They want a vote at conference to make/keep BoZo leader.
    So what? There were lots of people who wanted Blair to stay too. Thatcher was famously asked to "cancel the resignation".

    You have lost the plot because BoJo triggers some completely irrational part of your brain.
    There are quite a few people in the Labour Party who want Corbyn back…
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,568
    The resolve of the West in supporting Ukraine will be sorely tested in the coming years. No doubt there is some expectation management here but all the same it is grim. Meanwhile cranks blockade services on the M25 demanding no new oil or gas. idiots doing the Russians bidding.

    "National Grid warns of three-year energy crisis as emergency effort launched to cut factory power use"

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/national-grid-warns-of-three-year-energy-crisis-as-emergency-effort-launched-to-cut-factory-power-use/ar-AA10ZKcj?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=98c5b8f7d27a40beb502a8f982a969d6
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Carnyx said:

    ...

    dixiedean said:

    Driver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference
    Which, erm, isn't until after Boris will have been replaced.
    I'm proposing a motion that MacMillan is alive, still PM and that legally and officially nobody has ever had it so good. If it passes, all laws since 1963 are invalid
    Folk won't like the back taxes due.
    Gay men will also be somewhat non plussed and a several tens of millions not thrilled to be back under Empire.
    I didnt say it was a good plan
    We do get capital punishment which should cheer many die-hard (no pun) Conservatives. A bit late for National Service which will disappoint.
    National Servicemen were still serving in 1963.
    No new ones though, last discharges of national servicemen was in 1963
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    Carnyx said:

    ...

    dixiedean said:

    Driver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference
    Which, erm, isn't until after Boris will have been replaced.
    I'm proposing a motion that MacMillan is alive, still PM and that legally and officially nobody has ever had it so good. If it passes, all laws since 1963 are invalid
    Folk won't like the back taxes due.
    Gay men will also be somewhat non plussed and a several tens of millions not thrilled to be back under Empire.
    I didnt say it was a good plan
    We do get capital punishment which should cheer many die-hard (no pun) Conservatives. A bit late for National Service which will disappoint.
    National Servicemen were still serving in 1963.
    But they were the tail enders of the '61 intake. Wasn't it stopped circa 1960?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649

    Carnyx said:

    ...

    dixiedean said:

    Driver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference
    Which, erm, isn't until after Boris will have been replaced.
    I'm proposing a motion that MacMillan is alive, still PM and that legally and officially nobody has ever had it so good. If it passes, all laws since 1963 are invalid
    Folk won't like the back taxes due.
    Gay men will also be somewhat non plussed and a several tens of millions not thrilled to be back under Empire.
    I didnt say it was a good plan
    We do get capital punishment which should cheer many die-hard (no pun) Conservatives. A bit late for National Service which will disappoint.
    National Servicemen were still serving in 1963.
    But they were the tail enders of the '61 intake. Wasn't it stopped circa 1960?
    Yeah 1960, my Dad missed out by a month. Then there were a few deferees that trickled through to end in 63
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/aug/24/jackie-weaver-channel-4-make-me-prime-minister

    Not at all tactful of C4 to have an alternative PM selection procedure (and a decidedly more efficient one by the sound of it).
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,401
    Carnyx said:

    kyf_100 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    I stopped using Facebook ages ago as the platform is utter shite now.

    Just went to check and I've got more things showing "suggested for you" from Pages I don't follow than posts from my actual Friends that I do. And that's not even including the ads. At many points scrolling down it shows "suggested message", ad, "suggested message".

    No thanks. If I was interested in those pages, I'd be following them, I'm not.
    I might reactivate my FB account just to see what today’s fuss is about. Deactivation is about the only decent feature they have - you can switch it back on when needed but the rest of the time safely leave it dormant and ignored.

    I'm only an intermittent user (a couple of times a week, mostly for local political controversies) but checked this out - I see a few sponsored posts (=adverts) in my feed but no "suggestions". It doesn't feel very disturbing. If you don't use FB much, I suppose the feed is bound to be mostly ads, because real people will have learned to contact you in other ways?
    In terms of keeping in touch with people (rather than sharing with everyone) one of the biggest problems I now have is working out who prefers which method of contact.

    To contact various people of my acquaintance, I now have the following options

    Phone call, text message, email, whatsapp, facebook messenger, signal, telegram, instagram dm, linkedin dm, twitter dm, microsoft teams, zoom call, google meet.

    And that's just the ones I remember off the top of my head.

    Generally whatsapp/phone number works best, but sometimes (e.g. a friend you only talk to once a year) the number changes or you don't have it or whatever.

    The number of times I've sent people a message on the platform I think they use most only to receive a reply back "sorry, don't use this any more, message me on xxxxxx platform instead next time..."
    Interesting that a letter or a postcard don't appear on your mental radar.
    The last person to send me a personal, handwritten letter was an old girlfriend, and that was over ten years ago.

    I've changed postal addresses three times since then, but my email address and phone number are still exactly what they were in 2012 (actually, they've been the same since 2007 - and I've changed addresses over half a dozen times since then!).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/aug/24/jackie-weaver-channel-4-make-me-prime-minister

    Not at all tactful of C4 to have an alternative PM selection procedure (and a decidedly more efficient one by the sound of it).

    "You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver"
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028
    “Rishi Sunak refuses to commit to voting for Truss’s emergency budget if she wins Tory leadership”

    That’s a bit crazy threat in the middle of a campaign isn’t it? How does he and his supporters now rally round once the party has chosen the leader and direction to follow?

    What Rishi also said today, very much part of this, all the “freeze” proposals - the one from Labour, the one from Energy companies, require too much borrowing and he wouldn’t touch them.

    Correct me where wrong, There is a clear difference in financial direction between these two rival camps, High Tax borrow hating Sunak, High Borrow tax hating Truss - there doesn’t seem the be any compromise or middle ground longer it’s gone in does there, each camp thinks the others plan unsupportable in cabinet and perhaps commons?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,853
    edited August 2022
    Taz said:

    The resolve of the West in supporting Ukraine will be sorely tested in the coming years. No doubt there is some expectation management here but all the same it is grim. Meanwhile cranks blockade services on the M25 demanding no new oil or gas. idiots doing the Russians bidding.

    "National Grid warns of three-year energy crisis as emergency effort launched to cut factory power use"

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/national-grid-warns-of-three-year-energy-crisis-as-emergency-effort-launched-to-cut-factory-power-use/ar-AA10ZKcj?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=98c5b8f7d27a40beb502a8f982a969d6

    All applications for resource extraction & power generation need to be straight stamped "Yes" and fasttracked. Sod the NIMBYs and swampies. The Just Stop Oil lot and Mrs Moggins who doesn't want her view spoilt by a solar farm 3 miles from her house are two sides of the same coin.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Man has opinion.

    Trying to organise a vote at conference

    The reality is there are lots of Tory members who want to keep BoZo.

    That you are denying reality is not my problem
    Even in his resignation BoJo is turning his opponents’ brains into blancmange.
    And the idea that he might be succeeded by a libertarian, rather than a centrist WEF plant, is scaring them even more. They thought that Johnson’s ideals would die with Johnson.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    edited August 2022

    “Rishi Sunak refuses to commit to voting for Truss’s emergency budget if she wins Tory leadership”

    That’s a bit crazy threat in the middle of a campaign isn’t it? How does he and his supporters now rally round once the party has chosen the leader and direction to follow?

    What Rishi also said today, very much part of this, all the “freeze” proposals - the one from Labour, the one from Energy companies, require too much borrowing and he wouldn’t touch them.

    Correct me where wrong, There is a clear difference in financial direction between these two rival camps, High Tax borrow hating Sunak, High Borrow tax hating Truss - there doesn’t seem the be any compromise or middle ground longer it’s gone in does there, each camp thinks the others plan unsupportable in cabinet and perhaps commons?

    Except Sunak isn't borrow hating.

    This month's budget figures showed his high taxes bringing in much less than he and his mates at the treasury thought, even before those taxes send Britain into recession.

    Or Liz having the last LAFF(er), as its otherwise known.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649

    “Rishi Sunak refuses to commit to voting for Truss’s emergency budget if she wins Tory leadership”

    That’s a bit crazy threat in the middle of a campaign isn’t it? How does he and his supporters now rally round once the party has chosen the leader and direction to follow?

    What Rishi also said today, very much part of this, all the “freeze” proposals - the one from Labour, the one from Energy companies, require too much borrowing and he wouldn’t touch them.

    Correct me where wrong, There is a clear difference in financial direction between these two rival camps, High Tax borrow hating Sunak, High Borrow tax hating Truss - there doesn’t seem the be any compromise or middle ground longer it’s gone in does there, each camp thinks the others plan unsupportable in cabinet and perhaps commons?

    Anyone who doesnt will no longer be a Tory MP. So its bluffsville, or Rishi and a couple of his closer comrades do a pointless Change UK. Once he has lost he will find he has far fewer eager beavers behind him.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547
    The Ethics Advisor was a recommendation from 2004 by the Committee on Standards in Public Life, itself set up by Major in 1994.

    Blair appointed the first Advisor in 2006 in the wake of revelations about Tessa Jewell’s husband’s work with Berlusconi.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,853
    Jeesh Sanna Marin seemingly having to apologise for having fun.
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