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The fight for Nadine’s seat hots up even though there’s no vacancy – politicalbetting.com

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  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709
    Leon said:

    Notable how so many of the PBers critical of English attitudes to migrants actually live in empty, all white northern Scotland, or even emptier Sweden

    So many of our current problems come from the fact that England - southern England especially - has too many people and not enough infrastructure to support them. From housing to sewage, we are overcrowded

    And then there are the other problems brought by mass immigration, which are uncomfortable for middle class liberals to talk about, but nonetheless exist

    Enough. If the UKG doesn’t get a grip on this then the voters will seek a government that does. And it won’t be Labour

    In this light Brexit will be seen as merely the opening shot

    Spank us little shoes man. You know we like it when you work up a froth.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT - I think the deal is obvious.

    The UK needs to agree with France that boats can be intercepted by them in French waters, with their permission, and all aboard landed back in Calais. No-one gets into UK waters.

    The UK then agrees to accept a quota of vulnerable migrants directly from France once (and only once) these claims have been processed in country.

    Sweeten the deal with lots of cash. Royal Navy also helps out France in the Med in return.

    As the bulk of the people on the boats come from countries where there is no legal route for them to claim asylum, how about we offer one? Nobody would go on the boat if there was an alternative.
    If we did that, how many do you think would apply and qualify?

    It could go up one-hundred fold.

    This is no answer without an answer on numbers.
    You want to solve the boat crisis? Offer people legal routes to claim asylum. How many would apply? All the people on the boats plus probably double. How many would qualify? Doubtful would be a high percentage. We could have a slick well-resourced process to manage people who claim asylum. We don't.

    Your question on numbers pivots to the other problem.

    Problem 1: people coming in on little boats which are dangerous. We *could* do all kinds of things to stop the boats. Crack down on businesses using illegal labour. Off-shore processing of claims. Actual routes to make a claim. But we don't. Because the boats are a disguise for:
    Problem 2: too many English hate foreigners coming into their country taking over the schools and shops and simultaneously taking the jobs and benefits. There are no legal routes for Afghans to apply for asylum because England doesn't want the forrin.

    I'm happy to discuss a managed asylum policy with you. I live in a nation which openly wants migration. But as the Tory parts of England are awash with jingoism, we can't have that conversation. Because

    their proposed answer to your "how many" question is "zero".
    Gentle tip: I ignore any post from you with “forrin” in it.

    Gentle tip: I don't care one way or the other. If posters dislike the image being reflected in the mirror being held up, don't blame the mirror.
    The problem comes when the mirror is one of those distorted ones from the fairground.

    Look at how generous the UK has been to tens of thousands of Ukranians seeking shelter over the past six months, and tens of thousands more from Hong Kong.
    The UK hasn't been at all generous to Ukrainian refugees. It makes it fantastically difficult for them to get here and treats them like shit when they do.
    Speaking truth to power. Respect.

    They are way, way, way, way up their own arses.

    The Oaf and fucking sunflowers. Puhrleese.
    I’m sure that whatever gesture comes from Holyrood House, will however be just wonderful in your opinion.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,019
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Notable how so many of the PBers critical of English attitudes to migrants actually live in empty, all white northern Scotland, or even emptier Sweden

    So many of our current problems come from the fact that England - southern England especially - has too many people and not enough infrastructure to support them. From housing to sewage, we are overcrowded

    And then there are the other problems brought by mass immigration, which are uncomfortable for middle class liberals to talk about, but nonetheless exist

    Enough. If the UKG doesn’t get a grip on this then the voters will seek a government that does. And it won’t be Labour

    In this light Brexit will be seen as merely the opening shot

    That is your country boy incomer Cornish yokel self speaking.

    Londoners, with I'm sure the highest proportion of immigration in the country, are generally super welcoming to immigrants.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563

    Leon said:

    Notable how so many of the PBers critical of English attitudes to migrants actually live in empty, all white northern Scotland, or even emptier Sweden

    So many of our current problems come from the fact that England - southern England especially - has too many people and not enough infrastructure to support them. From housing to sewage, we are overcrowded

    And then there are the other problems brought by mass immigration, which are uncomfortable for middle class liberals to talk about, but nonetheless exist

    Enough. If the UKG doesn’t get a grip on this then the voters will seek a government that does. And it won’t be Labour

    In this light Brexit will be seen as merely the opening shot

    Spank us little shoes man. You know we like it when you work up a froth.

    To misquote the great Dave Allen, somebody's wearing the Bishop's shoes this morning.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT - I think the deal is obvious.

    The UK needs to agree with France that boats can be intercepted by them in French waters, with their permission, and all aboard landed back in Calais. No-one gets into UK waters.

    The UK then agrees to accept a quota of vulnerable migrants directly from France once (and only once) these claims have been processed in country.

    Sweeten the deal with lots of cash. Royal Navy also helps out France in the Med in return.

    As the bulk of the people on the boats come from countries where there is no legal route for them to claim asylum, how about we offer one? Nobody would go on the boat if there was an alternative.
    If we did that, how many do you think would apply and qualify?

    It could go up one-hundred fold.

    This is no answer without an answer on numbers.
    You want to solve the boat crisis? Offer people legal routes to claim asylum. How many would apply? All the people on the boats plus probably double. How many would qualify? Doubtful would be a high percentage. We could have a slick well-resourced process to manage people who claim asylum. We don't.

    Your question on numbers pivots to the other problem.

    Problem 1: people coming in on little boats which are dangerous. We *could* do all kinds of things to stop the boats. Crack down on businesses using illegal labour. Off-shore processing of claims. Actual routes to make a claim. But we don't. Because the boats are a disguise for:
    Problem 2: too many English hate foreigners coming into their country taking over the schools and shops and simultaneously taking the jobs and benefits. There are no legal routes for Afghans to apply for asylum because England doesn't want the forrin.

    I'm happy to discuss a managed asylum policy with you. I live in a nation which openly wants migration. But as the Tory parts of England are awash with jingoism, we can't have that conversation. Because

    their proposed answer to your "how many" question is "zero".
    Gentle tip: I ignore any post from you with “forrin” in it.

    Gentle tip: I don't care one way or the other. If posters dislike the image being reflected in the mirror being held up, don't blame the mirror.
    The problem comes when the mirror is one of those distorted ones from the fairground.

    Look at how generous the UK has been to tens of thousands of Ukranians seeking shelter over the past six months, and tens of thousands more from Hong Kong.
    The UK hasn't been at all generous to Ukrainian refugees. It makes it fantastically difficult for them to get here and treats them like shit when they do.
    Speaking truth to power. Respect.

    They are way, way, way, way up their own arses.

    The Oaf and fucking sunflowers. Puhrleese.
    I’m sure that whatever gesture comes from Holyrood House, will however be just wonderful in your opinion.
    From HMtQ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,019
    Meanwhile we are missing the big story of the day (according to The Times).

    @Dura_Ace wtf is going on with the Red Arrows?!?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    DavidL said:

    FPT - I think the deal is obvious.

    The UK needs to agree with France that boats can be intercepted by them in French waters, with their permission, and all aboard landed back in Calais. No-one gets into UK waters.

    The UK then agrees to accept a quota of vulnerable migrants directly from France once (and only once) these claims have been processed in country.

    Sweeten the deal with lots of cash. Royal Navy also helps out France in the Med in return.

    As the bulk of the people on the boats come from countries where there is no legal route for them to claim asylum, how about we offer one? Nobody would go on the boat if there was an alternative.
    If we did that, how many do you think would apply and qualify?

    It could go up one-hundred fold.

    This is no answer without an answer on numbers.
    The answer remains that the current asylum process is unsustainable and unfit for purpose. It cannot long survive into the century where climate and population growth in unstable countries is going to result in unsustainable flows of people to more temperate and prosperous climes. This is what the government is trying to wrestle with with its "hostile environment" and now the Rwanda nonsense, neither of which even begin to address the pressures in the system.

    It also leads to complete absurdities. I was speaking to a friend yesterday who is acting for someone who has overstayed his academic visa because he has now got his qualifications and is employed by a front rank Scottish University teaching computing science. We are trying to send him back to Nigeria. Its completely absurd. We absolutely need people like this.

    Once we accept that asylum is entirely at our discretion and that we choose who comes here and whom we want or need immigration will not stop but it will be directed at our needs rather than those who are less fortunate. Harsh, but inevitable in my view.
    Without Rwanda, how do you stop the boats?

    Unless you’re prepared to sink them/watch people drown, Rwanda is the only option

    All this guff about “processing centres” is so much bullshit. France won’t do a deal with us because they want as many of them as possible in the UK, rather than France

    Simple as

    And they will keep crossing the Channel, rather than taking legal routes. because they know once they are here sans papiers we will shrug and say Stay
  • TimS said:

    On English vs Scottish attitudes to immigration the data suggests:

    1. They are pretty similar
    2. Most people are reasonably positive about immigration

    This survey was done back in 2018:

    https://www.bl.uk/britishlibrary/~/media/bl/global/social-welfare/pdfs/non-secure/d/o/s/do-scotland-and-england-and-wales-have-different-views-about-immigration-18.pdf

    Immigration is well down the list of stated concerns in recent surveys. It temporarily jumped around 2015-2016 coinciding with blanket news coverage of the European migrant crisis and the aftermath of the Arab spring. It is back down again.

    There is simply not the evidence to suggest Britain (North or South of the border) is a seething mass of anti foreigner resentment. This is a meme indulged in as a joint venture between both right wing commentators and left wingers or separatists who view England/Britain as a uniquely racist country.

    As for Stuart’s Rangers fans response, was there were ever a more literal demonstration of the no true Scotsman fallacy?

    I fear this one is where the statisticians aren't sampling the right people. Its the same void the Vote Leave campaign brilliantly identified and exploited. Immigration is absolutely well down the list of concerns for most people. Even the people who still bang on about boats likely place that below their ability to pay bills I suspect.

    The problem is that it has become a wedge issue, even amongst people not directly affected by the issue. The migration itself may not be the crisis, but what it represents is - a loss of control. I deliberately use "forrin" as a spelling to satirise this - most of the people objecting to migrants are NOT racist. But they find themselves saying the same things as the smaller number of actual racists.

    Seeing an end to asylum seekers, or EU migrants living in their town isn't really driven by racism - their "race" of so many EU migrants is the same as our own. Which is why racism isn't the right term. They just want control over their lives because they can see things getting worse and their own inability to change that.

    Its asking the right question. But getting the wrong answer.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Six months today, since this damn war started.

    Today is Independence Day in Ukraine.
    Indeed, something that’s not a co-incidence.

    Ukraine, of course, will remind everyone today that this war actually started eight years ago.

    I just hope it passes in relative peace today. I can’t afford any more windows.
    I’ve heard it argued that the Third World War started eight years ago. And nobody noticed.

    Hope it’s not Hundred Years' War II.

    Incidentally, Scotland and England (with Ireland & Wales) were on opposing sides in Hundred Years' War I. The Scottish side won.
    Although it should be noted that almost every battle the Scots took part in ended badly for them - e.g. Neville's Cross. Even when they won, as at the otherwise fairly minor Battle of Baugé, they still managed to cock things up by letting the English survivors escape and rally elsewhere.
    Scots forces took part in nearly every French action, including of course the decisive Siege of Orléans.

    No Scots = no French victory = England retaining her continental possessions

    Scots caused English exceptionalism. Discuss.

    No. Doesn't even need a discussion. It's nonsense. Apart from anything else, Orleans was not 'decisive' except insofar as if the French hadn't won then France would have been completely subdued. I don't believe there were any Scots at all in the genuinely decisive battles of the 1440s and Formigny and Castillon later.
    Blah blah wank wank.

    You were correct: it didn’t even need a discussion.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799

    DavidL said:

    Nice touch by Boris at Number 10: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-62647630

    Did he do it himself?
    I am wondering where @Cyclefree has been overnight.
  • Leon said:

    Notable how so many of the PBers critical of English attitudes to migrants actually live in empty, all white northern Scotland, or even emptier Sweden

    So many of our current problems come from the fact that England - southern England especially - has too many people and not enough infrastructure to support them. From housing to sewage, we are overcrowded

    And then there are the other problems brought by mass immigration, which are uncomfortable for middle class liberals to talk about, but nonetheless exist

    Enough. If the UKG doesn’t get a grip on this then the voters will seek a government that does. And it won’t be Labour

    In this light Brexit will be seen as merely the opening shot

    There will undoubtedly be concerted attempts on the right to blame years of underinvestment in housing, infrastructure and public services on the few thousand people coming across the Channel currently on small boats. Whether voters will buy that as the cost of living soars and they have to make choices between heating their homes and feeding their families remains to be seen.

  • Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT - I think the deal is obvious.

    The UK needs to agree with France that boats can be intercepted by them in French waters, with their permission, and all aboard landed back in Calais. No-one gets into UK waters.

    The UK then agrees to accept a quota of vulnerable migrants directly from France once (and only once) these claims have been processed in country.

    Sweeten the deal with lots of cash. Royal Navy also helps out France in the Med in return.

    As the bulk of the people on the boats come from countries where there is no legal route for them to claim asylum, how about we offer one? Nobody would go on the boat if there was an alternative.
    If we did that, how many do you think would apply and qualify?

    It could go up one-hundred fold.

    This is no answer without an answer on numbers.
    The answer remains that the current asylum process is unsustainable and unfit for purpose. It cannot long survive into the century where climate and population growth in unstable countries is going to result in unsustainable flows of people to more temperate and prosperous climes. This is what the government is trying to wrestle with with its "hostile environment" and now the Rwanda nonsense, neither of which even begin to address the pressures in the system.

    It also leads to complete absurdities. I was speaking to a friend yesterday who is acting for someone who has overstayed his academic visa because he has now got his qualifications and is employed by a front rank Scottish University teaching computing science. We are trying to send him back to Nigeria. Its completely absurd. We absolutely need people like this.

    Once we accept that asylum is entirely at our discretion and that we choose who comes here and whom we want or need immigration will not stop but it will be directed at our needs rather than those who are less fortunate. Harsh, but inevitable in my view.
    Without Rwanda, how do you stop the boats?

    Unless you’re prepared to sink them/watch people drown, Rwanda is the only option

    All this guff about “processing centres” is so much bullshit. France won’t do a deal with us because they want as many of them as possible in the UK, rather than France

    Simple as

    And they will keep crossing the Channel, rather than taking legal routes. because they know once they are here sans papiers we will shrug and say Stay
    But Rwanda isn't an option. Rwanda cannot and will not accept any more migrants. And when they eventually do the numbers they have stated are a fraction of what our side have promised.

    So forget Rwanda. There is no Rwanda. You may as well threaten to send them to the moon. Which is why boat numbers flow as many as ever because everyone knows - you included surely - that nobody is going to Rwanda.

    So can we discuss actual viable real world solutions instead?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Six months today, since this damn war started.

    Today is Independence Day in Ukraine.
    Indeed, something that’s not a co-incidence.

    Ukraine, of course, will remind everyone today that this war actually started eight years ago.

    I just hope it passes in relative peace today. I can’t afford any more windows.
    I’ve heard it argued that the Third World War started eight years ago. And nobody noticed.

    Hope it’s not Hundred Years' War II.

    Incidentally, Scotland and England (with Ireland & Wales) were on opposing sides in Hundred Years' War I. The Scottish side won.
    Although it should be noted that almost every battle the Scots took part in ended badly for them - e.g. Neville's Cross. Even when they won, as at the otherwise fairly minor Battle of Baugé, they still managed to cock things up by letting the English survivors escape and rally elsewhere.
    Scots forces took part in nearly every French action, including of course the decisive Siege of Orléans.

    No Scots = no French victory = England retaining her continental possessions

    Scots caused English exceptionalism. Discuss.

    No. Doesn't even need a discussion. It's nonsense. Apart from anything else, Orleans was not 'decisive' except insofar as if the French hadn't won then France would have been completely subdued. I don't believe there were any Scots at all in the genuinely decisive battles of the 1440s and Formigny and Castillon later.
    Blah blah wank wank.

    You were correct: it didn’t even need a discussion.
    I'm glad you agree.

    And since you were unable to discuss it, I note you in fact really didn't agree with your own thesis.

    Which is impressive, in its own way.

    Do you like Dave Allen, by the way, or is satire not really your thing?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Notable how so many of the PBers critical of English attitudes to migrants actually live in empty, all white northern Scotland, or even emptier Sweden

    So many of our current problems come from the fact that England - southern England especially - has too many people and not enough infrastructure to support them. From housing to sewage, we are overcrowded

    And then there are the other problems brought by mass immigration, which are uncomfortable for middle class liberals to talk about, but nonetheless exist

    Enough. If the UKG doesn’t get a grip on this then the voters will seek a government that does. And it won’t be Labour

    In this light Brexit will be seen as merely the opening shot

    That is your country boy incomer Cornish yokel self speaking.

    Londoners, with I'm sure the highest proportion of immigration in the country, are generally super welcoming to immigrants.
    Such tedious liberal bilge. Complacent and dim

    If the dinghy people keep coming at the rate they are coming - 1300 on Monday - watch this issue surge to prominence again. Especially in a deep recession

    It’s human nature
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile we are missing the big story of the day (according to The Times).

    @Dura_Ace wtf is going on with the Red Arrows?!?

    Oh good, I thought ... MoD is facing facts and scrapping them because they tie up an increasing proportio of fast jet pilots and maintenance crew?

    *checks*

    No, not that ...

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/red-arrows-engulfed-by-bullying-and-assault-row-wldnbp6zx
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Nice touch by Boris at Number 10: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-62647630

    Did he do it himself?
    I am wondering where @Cyclefree has been overnight.
    Well I doubt it was Boris, after his hols he's been too busy scrapping wallpaper off the Number 10 walls.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,545

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Six months today, since this damn war started.

    Today is Independence Day in Ukraine.
    Indeed, something that’s not a co-incidence.

    Ukraine, of course, will remind everyone today that this war actually started eight years ago.

    I just hope it passes in relative peace today. I can’t afford any more windows.
    I’ve heard it argued that the Third World War started eight years ago. And nobody noticed.

    Hope it’s not Hundred Years' War II.

    Incidentally, Scotland and England (with Ireland & Wales) were on opposing sides in Hundred Years' War I. The Scottish side won.
    Although it should be noted that almost every battle the Scots took part in ended badly for them - e.g. Neville's Cross. Even when they won, as at the otherwise fairly minor Battle of Baugé, they still managed to cock things up by letting the English survivors escape and rally elsewhere.
    Scots forces took part in nearly every French action, including of course the decisive Siege of Orléans.

    No Scots = no French victory = England retaining her continental possessions

    Scots caused English exceptionalism. Discuss.

    No. Doesn't even need a discussion. It's nonsense. Apart from anything else, Orleans was not 'decisive' except insofar as if the French hadn't won then France would have been completely subdued. I don't believe there were any Scots at all in the genuinely decisive battles of the 1440s and Formigny and Castillon later.
    Blah blah wank wank.

    You were correct: it didn’t even need a discussion.
    Are you okay?



  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,764
    TimS said:



    We’re hosting a Ukrainian and I would say she’s been treated very well by most organisations she’s coming into contact with: the refugee council, the job centre, HMRC, even the home office have been OK, if a little bureaucratic.

    Good for her. Ours got fucked around for months but they were among the first arrivals.

    The eldest just passed her driving test which is a huge landmark. Equipment used: 2000 996 Targa in violettchromaflair (single year colour!) with the 5 speed Mercedes automatic transmission that everyone hates but makes it a doddle to drive.

    I just wanted to pay somebody to take it for her as many such and similar services are available on the Ukrainian diaspora Telegram channels but, not for the first time, the Mrs DA put her Louboutin down and exercised her spousal veto.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    Yesterday, @trussliz wrote an article for the @expressandstar in which she promised to “get the midlands engine firing on all cylinders.”

    Meanwhile, in the actual real world…

    It‘s all just utterly insane.
    https://twitter.com/RichardVaughan1/status/1562344291288158208
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    Schools across Scotland are due to close in a fortnight under planned strike action as the country’s summer of discontent spreads into classrooms https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-set-to-close-as-caterers-cleaners-and-assistants-walk-out-sb7rtxf8k?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1661322806
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,891
    @Sandpit as an insurance against more bombs, how about leaving the windows somewhat open? Wouldn't that mitigate blast damage?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709
    Primož Roglič. What a superstar.

    Slovenian independence turned out well.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Rats on the streets cannot be far behind and, for once, I don't mean the tourists.

    Rats have “taken over” and replaced mice as the main vermin in Edinburgh, a pest controller has said, as the strike by refuse workers dragged on into its sixth day https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rats-take-over-as-rubbish-piles-up-in-edinburgh-bin-strike-fc0gsvcz3?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1661276319
    The volume of rubbish created by the Festival (and I don't mean the street theatre) is immense. The problem is becoming genuinely acute.
    Do you think that the flyposting problem from the Fringe is under control? The council did try to clamp down some time back. Not that I like the temporary poster boards and hoardings, though - horribly untidy.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,306
    Scott_xP said:

    Yesterday, @trussliz wrote an article for the @expressandstar in which she promised to “get the midlands engine firing on all cylinders.”

    Meanwhile, in the actual real world…

    It‘s all just utterly insane.
    https://twitter.com/RichardVaughan1/status/1562344291288158208

    Do you and the journalist have such a compressed attention span that you can't interpret generic boosterism over the appropriate timeframe?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799
    Dura_Ace said:

    TimS said:



    We’re hosting a Ukrainian and I would say she’s been treated very well by most organisations she’s coming into contact with: the refugee council, the job centre, HMRC, even the home office have been OK, if a little bureaucratic.

    Good for her. Ours got fucked around for months but they were among the first arrivals.

    The eldest just passed her driving test which is a huge landmark. Equipment used: 2000 996 Targa in violettchromaflair (single year colour!) with the 5 speed Mercedes automatic transmission that everyone hates but makes it a doddle to drive.

    I just wanted to pay somebody to take it for her as many such and similar services are available on the Ukrainian diaspora Telegram channels but, not for the first time, the Mrs DA put her Louboutin down and exercised her spousal veto.
    Mrs DA must be a truly remarkable person.
  • Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Notable how so many of the PBers critical of English attitudes to migrants actually live in empty, all white northern Scotland, or even emptier Sweden

    So many of our current problems come from the fact that England - southern England especially - has too many people and not enough infrastructure to support them. From housing to sewage, we are overcrowded

    And then there are the other problems brought by mass immigration, which are uncomfortable for middle class liberals to talk about, but nonetheless exist

    Enough. If the UKG doesn’t get a grip on this then the voters will seek a government that does. And it won’t be Labour

    In this light Brexit will be seen as merely the opening shot

    That is your country boy incomer Cornish yokel self speaking.

    Londoners, with I'm sure the highest proportion of immigration in the country, are generally super welcoming to immigrants.
    Such tedious liberal bilge. Complacent and dim

    If the dinghy people keep coming at the rate they are coming - 1300 on Monday - watch this issue surge to prominence again. Especially in a deep recession

    It’s human nature
    But the small boats are relatively small beer. Most immigration outside the law is likely by cheating on tourist visas, or sneaking in with freight. After all, they are easier.

    Something gets people in a tizzy about the small boats out of proportion to their significance. Partly, we see it. Partly, the starkness of our coastline not being a barrier we can control. That messes with our collective minds.

    As with the Mexican Wall, it's in part about seeing to be doing something.
  • Icarus said:

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.08 Liz Truss 93%
    13 Rishi Sunak 8%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%

    Do the more successful punters on here expect the prices to narrow as the close of this contest approaches? It does sound as if Sunak has converted some at the hustings. It must be very difficult to be sure that surveys of the voters of such an odd electorate are representative. Presumably the on line votes will available at the press of a button but the paper ones will take a while to count though as poll closes at 5pm on Friday why is the result not announced until Monday? How many of each type are expected.? Will the Conservative party actually give the numbers or just the percentages?
    Absent new information, you would expect Liz Truss's price to shorten. There are 12 days to the announcement on 5th September and 12 days is a long time to tie money up at a short price. Hmm; the header says 11 days; counting days is tricky, as anyone who has tried it on a computer will know. Christmas Eve is one day before Christmas Day, but is that really true at, say, five minutes to midnight? Seem to have veered off-topic there.

    But as you imply, there could be new information, what with the polls closing a full weekend before the announcement. I don't suppose the old lady bets but if she tells someone, in complete confidence, who mentions it to his favoured lobby correspondent, who... well, you get the picture.

    Also, as you say, it is possible, though unlikely, that the opinion polls are wrong. Generally Rishi seems to go down better at debates and hustings but the polls show Liz Truss has a 2 to 1 (or more) lead amongst the members, and many will have voted without watching any hustings, let alone all of them (still three official hustings to go). But I'm not holding my breath for a Sunak revival and cashed out a couple of Rishi bets this week, but not all of them!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779

    Scott_xP said:

    Yesterday, @trussliz wrote an article for the @expressandstar in which she promised to “get the midlands engine firing on all cylinders.”

    Meanwhile, in the actual real world…

    It‘s all just utterly insane.
    https://twitter.com/RichardVaughan1/status/1562344291288158208

    Do you and the journalist have such a compressed attention span that you can't interpret generic boosterism over the appropriate timeframe?
    I think quite a few people have had enough of uncritical boosterism uncaring of what is actually happening.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT - I think the deal is obvious.

    The UK needs to agree with France that boats can be intercepted by them in French waters, with their permission, and all aboard landed back in Calais. No-one gets into UK waters.

    The UK then agrees to accept a quota of vulnerable migrants directly from France once (and only once) these claims have been processed in country.

    Sweeten the deal with lots of cash. Royal Navy also helps out France in the Med in return.

    As the bulk of the people on the boats come from countries where there is no legal route for them to claim asylum, how about we offer one? Nobody would go on the boat if there was an alternative.
    If we did that, how many do you think would apply and qualify?

    It could go up one-hundred fold.

    This is no answer without an answer on numbers.
    You want to solve the boat crisis? Offer people legal routes to claim asylum. How many would apply? All the people on the boats plus probably double. How many would qualify? Doubtful would be a high percentage. We could have a slick well-resourced process to manage people who claim asylum. We don't.

    Your question on numbers pivots to the other problem.

    Problem 1: people coming in on little boats which are dangerous. We *could* do all kinds of things to stop the boats. Crack down on businesses using illegal labour. Off-shore processing of claims. Actual routes to make a claim. But we don't. Because the boats are a disguise for:
    Problem 2: too many English hate foreigners coming into their country taking over the schools and shops and simultaneously taking the jobs and benefits. There are no legal routes for Afghans to apply for asylum because England doesn't want the forrin.

    I'm happy to discuss a managed asylum policy with you. I live in a nation which openly wants migration. But as the Tory parts of England are awash with jingoism, we can't have that conversation. Because

    their proposed answer to your "how many" question is "zero".
    Gentle tip: I ignore any post from you with “forrin” in it.

    Gentle tip: I don't care one way or the other. If posters dislike the image being reflected in the mirror being held up, don't blame the mirror.
    The problem comes when the mirror is one of those distorted ones from the fairground.

    Look at how generous the UK has been to tens of thousands of Ukranians seeking shelter over the past six months, and tens of thousands more from Hong Kong.
    The UK hasn't been at all generous to Ukrainian refugees. It makes it fantastically difficult for them to get here and treats them like shit when they do.
    Speaking truth to power. Respect.

    They are way, way, way, way up their own arses.

    The Oaf and fucking sunflowers. Puhrleese.
    I’m sure that whatever gesture comes from Holyrood House, will however be just wonderful in your opinion.
    Holyroodhouse = Her Maj Queen Elizabeth I

    I think you may mean Bute House. Ya twat.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,764
    edited August 2022
    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile we are missing the big story of the day (according to The Times).

    @Dura_Ace wtf is going on with the Red Arrows?!?

    On the piss in Greece resulting in a huge bust up with one quitting and one getting sacked. Hence six/seven ship displays this year.

    The rot goes back to 'Murphygate' when they put a female pilot in the team and Red One started fucking her. They both lied about it in the subsequent enquiry and got caught. They couldn't bin Red One because that's the whole season cancelled so they just sacked the female pilot. That's pretty much the culture of the organisation.

    The display at RIAT this year was, perhaps understandably, ragged and they got blown away by the Black Eagles of South Korea who were very tight.

    Time to get rid.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Rats on the streets cannot be far behind and, for once, I don't mean the tourists.

    Rats have “taken over” and replaced mice as the main vermin in Edinburgh, a pest controller has said, as the strike by refuse workers dragged on into its sixth day https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rats-take-over-as-rubbish-piles-up-in-edinburgh-bin-strike-fc0gsvcz3?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1661276319
    The volume of rubbish created by the Festival (and I don't mean the street theatre) is immense. The problem is becoming genuinely acute.
    Do you think that the flyposting problem from the Fringe is under control? The council did try to clamp down some time back. Not that I like the temporary poster boards and hoardings, though - horribly untidy.
    Of course not. But it is nearly over for another year. Soon it will be just us and the rats fighting for seats in the cafes and bars once again.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709
    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TimS said:



    We’re hosting a Ukrainian and I would say she’s been treated very well by most organisations she’s coming into contact with: the refugee council, the job centre, HMRC, even the home office have been OK, if a little bureaucratic.

    Good for her. Ours got fucked around for months but they were among the first arrivals.

    The eldest just passed her driving test which is a huge landmark. Equipment used: 2000 996 Targa in violettchromaflair (single year colour!) with the 5 speed Mercedes automatic transmission that everyone hates but makes it a doddle to drive.

    I just wanted to pay somebody to take it for her as many such and similar services are available on the Ukrainian diaspora Telegram channels but, not for the first time, the Mrs DA put her Louboutin down and exercised her spousal veto.
    Mrs DA must be a truly remarkable person.
    I’m sure Mrs DL is no slouch.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,019
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Notable how so many of the PBers critical of English attitudes to migrants actually live in empty, all white northern Scotland, or even emptier Sweden

    So many of our current problems come from the fact that England - southern England especially - has too many people and not enough infrastructure to support them. From housing to sewage, we are overcrowded

    And then there are the other problems brought by mass immigration, which are uncomfortable for middle class liberals to talk about, but nonetheless exist

    Enough. If the UKG doesn’t get a grip on this then the voters will seek a government that does. And it won’t be Labour

    In this light Brexit will be seen as merely the opening shot

    That is your country boy incomer Cornish yokel self speaking.

    Londoners, with I'm sure the highest proportion of immigration in the country, are generally super welcoming to immigrants.
    Such tedious liberal bilge. Complacent and dim

    If the dinghy people keep coming at the rate they are coming - 1300 on Monday - watch this issue surge to prominence again. Especially in a deep recession

    It’s human nature
    "A MAN who feels immigration is negatively affecting his life cannot give a single concrete example of how, he has revealed.

    Roy Hobbs, from Worcester, is vehemently opposed to immigration but can never explain how it has harmed him or anyone he knows.

    Hobbs said: “Immigration forces wages down. Not for middle-class people like me, obviously, but for simple working class folk. I can’t give you any examples, but a man on Question Time said it.

    “They’re damaging our culture. I’m not sure how someone talking Polish on the bus is harming British culture in the same way as, say, banning Shakespeare, but it probably is."


    https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/man-claims-hius-life-being-ruined-by-immigration-but-cant-explain-how-20170227122932
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    edited August 2022
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Rats on the streets cannot be far behind and, for once, I don't mean the tourists.

    Rats have “taken over” and replaced mice as the main vermin in Edinburgh, a pest controller has said, as the strike by refuse workers dragged on into its sixth day https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rats-take-over-as-rubbish-piles-up-in-edinburgh-bin-strike-fc0gsvcz3?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1661276319
    The volume of rubbish created by the Festival (and I don't mean the street theatre) is immense. The problem is becoming genuinely acute.
    Do you think that the flyposting problem from the Fringe is under control? The council did try to clamp down some time back. Not that I like the temporary poster boards and hoardings, though - horribly untidy.
    Of course not. But it is nearly over for another year. Soon it will be just us and the rats fighting for seats in the cafes and bars once again.
    Can't say I'm surprised - though I wonder why they bother spending money on posters, and the council on putting up hoardings to pander to them, when all the luvvies and their fans have mobeys anyway.

    When I worked in Edinburgh, the first week of September was such blessed relief - and not just because of the Indian summers. Now I just don't go in in August at all.

    PS I hope the prices in the cafes etc come down pronto from the regular Festival jack-up.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,376

    Cicero said:

    Stereodog said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Six months today, since this damn war started.

    Today is Independence Day in Ukraine.
    Indeed, something that’s not a co-incidence.

    Ukraine, of course, will remind everyone today that this war actually started eight years ago.

    I just hope it passes in relative peace today. I can’t afford any more windows.
    I’ve heard it argued that the Third World War started eight years ago. And nobody noticed.

    Hope it’s not Hundred Years' War II.

    Incidentally, Scotland and England (with Ireland & Wales) were on opposing sides in Hundred Years' War I. The Scottish side won.
    If this is WWIII I almost hope it is a hundred year war. It’ll be a 2 hour war that dooms humanity.
    If we did think that WW III started 8 years ago, then the attack begun this year is probably the Barbarossa of this war.
    Right now it looks like Russia is finished as a great power as it descends towards open fascism and an increasingly likely civil war or even civil wars.
    Putin unprovoked attack looks more and more like a catastrophic miscalculation.
    I hope you’re right. I love the Europe of 57 varieties (Estonia, Montenegro, Wallonia, Wales, Cyprus, Catalonia, Poland, England, Denmark etc etc etc). So much preferable to the monotony of bully boy unitary pseudo-empires.
    The republics of Donetsk and Lugansk will be heartened that you say so.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT - I think the deal is obvious.

    The UK needs to agree with France that boats can be intercepted by them in French waters, with their permission, and all aboard landed back in Calais. No-one gets into UK waters.

    The UK then agrees to accept a quota of vulnerable migrants directly from France once (and only once) these claims have been processed in country.

    Sweeten the deal with lots of cash. Royal Navy also helps out France in the Med in return.

    As the bulk of the people on the boats come from countries where there is no legal route for them to claim asylum, how about we offer one? Nobody would go on the boat if there was an alternative.
    If we did that, how many do you think would apply and qualify?

    It could go up one-hundred fold.

    This is no answer without an answer on numbers.
    The answer remains that the current asylum process is unsustainable and unfit for purpose. It cannot long survive into the century where climate and population growth in unstable countries is going to result in unsustainable flows of people to more temperate and prosperous climes. This is what the government is trying to wrestle with with its "hostile environment" and now the Rwanda nonsense, neither of which even begin to address the pressures in the system.

    It also leads to complete absurdities. I was speaking to a friend yesterday who is acting for someone who has overstayed his academic visa because he has now got his qualifications and is employed by a front rank Scottish University teaching computing science. We are trying to send him back to Nigeria. Its completely absurd. We absolutely need people like this.

    Once we accept that asylum is entirely at our discretion and that we choose who comes here and whom we want or need immigration will not stop but it will be directed at our needs rather than those who are less fortunate. Harsh, but inevitable in my view.
    Without Rwanda, how do you stop the boats?

    Unless you’re prepared to sink them/watch people drown, Rwanda is the only option

    All this guff about “processing centres” is so much bullshit. France won’t do a deal with us because they want as many of them as possible in the UK, rather than France

    Simple as

    And they will keep crossing the Channel, rather than taking legal routes. because they know once they are here sans papiers we will shrug and say Stay
    Rwanda is an expensive waste of time and will deter no one. It does generate a good headline mind. See the Israeli effort in Rwanda, the free to roam detainees all roamed back to where they intended to first go.

    Your option B might work if anyone is heartless enough to try and sink the boats.

    Maybe as Rochdale suggested earlier, if we made more of an effort to tackle the organised criminal gangs that are working the illegal entries and running the immigrants by providing illegal employment once they are here, that would be significantly more useful than the half-assed idea of sending a couple of plane loads of Afghans, Vietnamese and Kurds to Rwanda each year. If they got to the UK once they can do it again.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Rats on the streets cannot be far behind and, for once, I don't mean the tourists.

    Rats have “taken over” and replaced mice as the main vermin in Edinburgh, a pest controller has said, as the strike by refuse workers dragged on into its sixth day https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rats-take-over-as-rubbish-piles-up-in-edinburgh-bin-strike-fc0gsvcz3?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1661276319
    The volume of rubbish created by the Festival (and I don't mean the street theatre) is immense. The problem is becoming genuinely acute.
    Do you think that the flyposting problem from the Fringe is under control? The council did try to clamp down some time back. Not that I like the temporary poster boards and hoardings, though - horribly untidy.
    Of course not. But it is nearly over for another year. Soon it will be just us and the rats fighting for seats in the cafes and bars once again.
    I propose that we just shut down the Festival. The whole thing. International, Fringe, Comedy, Film, Book, Science, Politics, etc etc etc ad infinitum.

    The whole shebang. Bunch of twats from beginning to end.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147
    I have not seen any report anywhere of Rees Mogg being offered a peerage. Indeed he is likely to stay an MP and be offered a place in Truss' Cabinet
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT - I think the deal is obvious.

    The UK needs to agree with France that boats can be intercepted by them in French waters, with their permission, and all aboard landed back in Calais. No-one gets into UK waters.

    The UK then agrees to accept a quota of vulnerable migrants directly from France once (and only once) these claims have been processed in country.

    Sweeten the deal with lots of cash. Royal Navy also helps out France in the Med in return.

    As the bulk of the people on the boats come from countries where there is no legal route for them to claim asylum, how about we offer one? Nobody would go on the boat if there was an alternative.
    If we did that, how many do you think would apply and qualify?

    It could go up one-hundred fold.

    This is no answer without an answer on numbers.
    The answer remains that the current asylum process is unsustainable and unfit for purpose. It cannot long survive into the century where climate and population growth in unstable countries is going to result in unsustainable flows of people to more temperate and prosperous climes. This is what the government is trying to wrestle with with its "hostile environment" and now the Rwanda nonsense, neither of which even begin to address the pressures in the system.

    It also leads to complete absurdities. I was speaking to a friend yesterday who is acting for someone who has overstayed his academic visa because he has now got his qualifications and is employed by a front rank Scottish University teaching computing science. We are trying to send him back to Nigeria. Its completely absurd. We absolutely need people like this.

    Once we accept that asylum is entirely at our discretion and that we choose who comes here and whom we want or need immigration will not stop but it will be directed at our needs rather than those who are less fortunate. Harsh, but inevitable in my view.
    Without Rwanda, how do you stop the boats?

    Unless you’re prepared to sink them/watch people drown, Rwanda is the only option

    All this guff about “processing centres” is so much bullshit. France won’t do a deal with us because they want as many of them as possible in the UK, rather than France

    Simple as

    And they will keep crossing the Channel, rather than taking legal routes. because they know once they are here sans papiers we will shrug and say Stay
    You stop the boats by withdrawing from the UN convention on refugees and stating anyone who comes here illegally will be returned. Period. No rights of asylum. Ideally, the UK would do this in conjunction with most other western nations at the same time. We then choose who we want to fill our many vacancies, skill gaps and need for people willing to do deeply unpopular jobs well above those with a degree in business administration or dance.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175

    I propose that we just shut down the Festival. The whole thing. International, Fringe, Comedy, Film, Book, Science, Politics, etc etc etc ad infinitum.

    The whole shebang. Bunch of twats from beginning to end.

    But where would Nippy get her selfies?

    Sturgeon to miss launch of GERS report ahead of third Fringe show
    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20720377.nicola-sturgeon-miss-launch-gers-report-ahead-third-fringe-appearance/?ref=twtrec
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Rats on the streets cannot be far behind and, for once, I don't mean the tourists.

    Rats have “taken over” and replaced mice as the main vermin in Edinburgh, a pest controller has said, as the strike by refuse workers dragged on into its sixth day https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rats-take-over-as-rubbish-piles-up-in-edinburgh-bin-strike-fc0gsvcz3?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1661276319
    The volume of rubbish created by the Festival (and I don't mean the street theatre) is immense. The problem is becoming genuinely acute.
    Do you think that the flyposting problem from the Fringe is under control? The council did try to clamp down some time back. Not that I like the temporary poster boards and hoardings, though - horribly untidy.
    Of course not. But it is nearly over for another year. Soon it will be just us and the rats fighting for seats in the cafes and bars once again.
    I propose that we just shut down the Festival. The whole thing. International, Fringe, Comedy, Film, Book, Science, Politics, etc etc etc ad infinitum.

    The whole shebang. Bunch of twats from beginning to end.
    The Science and Book festivals are good, film too - all well under control (and spaced out by their nature). It's the arts festivals in August that are a monster, mainly because of the Fringe (the core/upmarket events are fine).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    Scott_xP said:

    I propose that we just shut down the Festival. The whole thing. International, Fringe, Comedy, Film, Book, Science, Politics, etc etc etc ad infinitum.

    The whole shebang. Bunch of twats from beginning to end.

    But where would Nippy get her selfies?

    Sturgeon to miss launch of GERS report ahead of third Fringe show
    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20720377.nicola-sturgeon-miss-launch-gers-report-ahead-third-fringe-appearance/?ref=twtrec
    Misogynistic some?
  • eekeek Posts: 22,056
    HYUFD said:

    I have not seen any report anywhere of Rees Mogg being offered a peerage. Indeed he is likely to stay an MP and be offered a place in Truss' Cabinet

    Which tells you everything you need to know about Truss's Cabinet.

    She has a very shallow base to pick from and is happy to work with complete non-entities who don't understand nor care how the modern world works...
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709

    Cicero said:

    Stereodog said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Six months today, since this damn war started.

    Today is Independence Day in Ukraine.
    Indeed, something that’s not a co-incidence.

    Ukraine, of course, will remind everyone today that this war actually started eight years ago.

    I just hope it passes in relative peace today. I can’t afford any more windows.
    I’ve heard it argued that the Third World War started eight years ago. And nobody noticed.

    Hope it’s not Hundred Years' War II.

    Incidentally, Scotland and England (with Ireland & Wales) were on opposing sides in Hundred Years' War I. The Scottish side won.
    If this is WWIII I almost hope it is a hundred year war. It’ll be a 2 hour war that dooms humanity.
    If we did think that WW III started 8 years ago, then the attack begun this year is probably the Barbarossa of this war.
    Right now it looks like Russia is finished as a great power as it descends towards open fascism and an increasingly likely civil war or even civil wars.
    Putin unprovoked attack looks more and more like a catastrophic miscalculation.
    I hope you’re right. I love the Europe of 57 varieties (Estonia, Montenegro, Wallonia, Wales, Cyprus, Catalonia, Poland, England, Denmark etc etc etc). So much preferable to the monotony of bully boy unitary pseudo-empires.
    The republics of Donetsk and Lugansk will be heartened that you say so.
    That was a party political broadcast from the monotony of bully boy unitary pseudo-empires.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Notable how so many of the PBers critical of English attitudes to migrants actually live in empty, all white northern Scotland, or even emptier Sweden

    So many of our current problems come from the fact that England - southern England especially - has too many people and not enough infrastructure to support them. From housing to sewage, we are overcrowded

    And then there are the other problems brought by mass immigration, which are uncomfortable for middle class liberals to talk about, but nonetheless exist

    Enough. If the UKG doesn’t get a grip on this then the voters will seek a government that does. And it won’t be Labour

    In this light Brexit will be seen as merely the opening shot

    Spank us little shoes man. You know we like it when you work up a froth.

    To misquote the great Dave Allen, somebody's wearing the Bishop's shoes this morning.
    Viz readers of the world unite.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    Carnyx said:

    The Science and Book festivals are good, film too - all well under control (and spaced out by their nature). It's the arts festivals in August that are a monster, mainly because of the Fringe (the core/upmarket events are fine).

    I got a text from the technical director of the Book Festival in Charlotte Square when we were testing the PA for the fireworks in Princes Street Gardens. "Sounds good!"
  • HYUFD said:

    I have not seen any report anywhere of Rees Mogg being offered a peerage. Indeed he is likely to stay an MP and be offered a place in Truss' Cabinet

    The number of jobs Liz Truss is reported to have offered, she'd probably be grateful for Boris ennobling as many as possible.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,376

    Icarus said:

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.08 Liz Truss 93%
    13 Rishi Sunak 8%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%

    Do the more successful punters on here expect the prices to narrow as the close of this contest approaches? It does sound as if Sunak has converted some at the hustings. It must be very difficult to be sure that surveys of the voters of such an odd electorate are representative. Presumably the on line votes will available at the press of a button but the paper ones will take a while to count though as poll closes at 5pm on Friday why is the result not announced until Monday? How many of each type are expected.? Will the Conservative party actually give the numbers or just the percentages?
    Absent new information, you would expect Liz Truss's price to shorten. There are 12 days to the announcement on 5th September and 12 days is a long time to tie money up at a short price. Hmm; the header says 11 days; counting days is tricky, as anyone who has tried it on a computer will know. Christmas Eve is one day before Christmas Day, but is that really true at, say, five minutes to midnight? Seem to have veered off-topic there.

    But as you imply, there could be new information, what with the polls closing a full weekend before the announcement. I don't suppose the old lady bets but if she tells someone, in complete confidence, who mentions it to his favoured lobby correspondent, who... well, you get the picture.

    Also, as you say, it is possible, though unlikely, that the opinion polls are wrong. Generally Rishi seems to go down better at debates and hustings but the polls show Liz Truss has a 2 to 1 (or more) lead amongst the members, and many will have voted without watching any hustings, let alone all of them (still three official hustings to go). But I'm not holding my breath for a Sunak revival and cashed out a couple of Rishi bets this week, but not all of them!
    Which debates and hustings have you been watching? He's been God-awful in the ones I've seen.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,752
    Dura_Ace said:

    TimS said:



    We’re hosting a Ukrainian and I would say she’s been treated very well by most organisations she’s coming into contact with: the refugee council, the job centre, HMRC, even the home office have been OK, if a little bureaucratic.

    Good for her. Ours got fucked around for months but they were among the first arrivals.

    The eldest just passed her driving test which is a huge landmark. Equipment used: 2000 996 Targa in violettchromaflair (single year colour!) with the 5 speed Mercedes automatic transmission that everyone hates but makes it a doddle to drive.

    I just wanted to pay somebody to take it for her as many such and similar services are available on the Ukrainian diaspora Telegram channels but, not for the first time, the Mrs DA put her Louboutin down and exercised her spousal veto.
    I don't know why, but I suspect Mrs DA's spousal veto is exercised on an hourly basis.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    Scott_xP said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Science and Book festivals are good, film too - all well under control (and spaced out by their nature). It's the arts festivals in August that are a monster, mainly because of the Fringe (the core/upmarket events are fine).

    I got a text from the technical director of the Book Festival in Charlotte Square when we were testing the PA for the fireworks in Princes Street Gardens. "Sounds good!"
    Quite. And the locals don't like being told at roadblocks by rent-a-bouncer that they can't go home.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709
    ydoethur said:

    Stereodog said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Six months today, since this damn war started.

    Today is Independence Day in Ukraine.
    Indeed, something that’s not a co-incidence.

    Ukraine, of course, will remind everyone today that this war actually started eight years ago.

    I just hope it passes in relative peace today. I can’t afford any more windows.
    I’ve heard it argued that the Third World War started eight years ago. And nobody noticed.

    Hope it’s not Hundred Years' War II.

    Incidentally, Scotland and England (with Ireland & Wales) were on opposing sides in Hundred Years' War I. The Scottish side won.
    If this is WWIII I almost hope it is a hundred year war. It’ll be a 2 hour war that dooms humanity.
    Indeed. But if it’s nuclear holocaust that worries you (and it should), I’d be more concerned by hillbillies voting for Gael-offspring Trump.
    Slightly eccentric jump from claiming the Scots won the Hundred Years War to claiming World War III will be started by a Scotsman.
    No eccentricity required.

    Scots won Hundred Years' War I. Slam dunk.

    Third World War (puhrleese no shite Yankee “WWIII” nonsense) started by a son of a Gael. Perfectly feasible. Unfortunately.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,523
    I was at a clients yesterday, a bio-tech company, and they were thinking if they needed to buy a generator over the winter to cover themselves.

    I though it was a very sensible idea.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 18,014
    HYUFD said:

    I have not seen any report anywhere of Rees Mogg being offered a peerage. Indeed he is likely to stay an MP and be offered a place in Truss' Cabinet

    If he is elevated and there is a by-election, I wonder if his sister will stand as the ReFuk candidate?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 20,039

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Notable how so many of the PBers critical of English attitudes to migrants actually live in empty, all white northern Scotland, or even emptier Sweden

    So many of our current problems come from the fact that England - southern England especially - has too many people and not enough infrastructure to support them. From housing to sewage, we are overcrowded

    And then there are the other problems brought by mass immigration, which are uncomfortable for middle class liberals to talk about, but nonetheless exist

    Enough. If the UKG doesn’t get a grip on this then the voters will seek a government that does. And it won’t be Labour

    In this light Brexit will be seen as merely the opening shot

    That is your country boy incomer Cornish yokel self speaking.

    Londoners, with I'm sure the highest proportion of immigration in the country, are generally super welcoming to immigrants.
    Such tedious liberal bilge. Complacent and dim

    If the dinghy people keep coming at the rate they are coming - 1300 on Monday - watch this issue surge to prominence again. Especially in a deep recession

    It’s human nature
    But the small boats are relatively small beer. Most immigration outside the law is likely by cheating on tourist visas, or sneaking in with freight. After all, they are easier.

    Something gets people in a tizzy about the small boats out of proportion to their significance. Partly, we see it. Partly, the starkness of our coastline not being a barrier we can control. That messes with our collective minds.

    As with the Mexican Wall, it's in part about seeing to be doing something.
    Yes, it's a good parallel to the Mexican wall. The flow of migration is even stronger on the Continent, and people grumble but largely put up with it. Say there's 100,000 in a year - that's 180 per constituency of 70-80,000 people. You might meet one now and then, shrug. 200,000?

    There are only two plausible strategies - open a legal route to try to minimise the illegal flows, or pretend to do something that doesn't work. Either way, migration is inevitable given the state of the world. Note too that the Red Wall poll shows a substantial lead for Labour as more likely to deal with it. I don't think that's based on any real expectation - rather, that the Tories said they would and obviously haven't. Rwanda is a side-issue regardless of the morality, since Ministers are talking of a couple of thousand, not 100,000.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709
    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile we are missing the big story of the day (according to The Times).

    @Dura_Ace wtf is going on with the Red Arrows?!?

    Overdose of British Nationalism.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709

    I was at a clients yesterday, a bio-tech company, and they were thinking if they needed to buy a generator over the winter to cover themselves.

    I though it was a very sensible idea.

    The Antarctic ice shelves are eternally grateful. As long as you biotech wankers don’t work up a mild sweat.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563

    ydoethur said:

    Stereodog said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Six months today, since this damn war started.

    Today is Independence Day in Ukraine.
    Indeed, something that’s not a co-incidence.

    Ukraine, of course, will remind everyone today that this war actually started eight years ago.

    I just hope it passes in relative peace today. I can’t afford any more windows.
    I’ve heard it argued that the Third World War started eight years ago. And nobody noticed.

    Hope it’s not Hundred Years' War II.

    Incidentally, Scotland and England (with Ireland & Wales) were on opposing sides in Hundred Years' War I. The Scottish side won.
    If this is WWIII I almost hope it is a hundred year war. It’ll be a 2 hour war that dooms humanity.
    Indeed. But if it’s nuclear holocaust that worries you (and it should), I’d be more concerned by hillbillies voting for Gael-offspring Trump.
    Slightly eccentric jump from claiming the Scots won the Hundred Years War to claiming World War III will be started by a Scotsman.
    No eccentricity required.

    Scots won Hundred Years' War I. Slam dunk.

    Third World War (puhrleese no shite Yankee “WWIII” nonsense) started by a son of a Gael. Perfectly feasible. Unfortunately.
    Fortunately, neither is accurate.

    You could of course make a reasonable case if Trump did start World War Three (which is actually French in origin, but never mind) that Germans began all of them, given his father was German born.

    Hope the Bishop's shoes stop pinching you quite so badly.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,589
    Airport anecdote.

    Arrived at security. Reasonably big queue but only 1.5 people dealing with it (half as someone was generally taking the priority queue - crews, transfers etc.). Took me 45 minutes to get through. By the time I did, the queue was at least 4 times bigger. God help the poor buggers at the back

    Oslo airport. Seems the UK isn't the only country with staffing problems!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    edited August 2022

    I was at a clients yesterday, a bio-tech company, and they were thinking if they needed to buy a generator over the winter to cover themselves.

    I though it was a very sensible idea.

    If they're looking to cover themselves, they'd probably find a blanket more comfortable.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147
    Chinese government finally acknowledges the aggression of the Americans towards us in the US War of Independence and the War of 1812

    https://twitter.com/CGMeifangZhang/status/1562061254780411904?s=20&t=ZWicWNKWLFVfBRMm_hFGHA
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,376
    edited August 2022

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT - I think the deal is obvious.

    The UK needs to agree with France that boats can be intercepted by them in French waters, with their permission, and all aboard landed back in Calais. No-one gets into UK waters.

    The UK then agrees to accept a quota of vulnerable migrants directly from France once (and only once) these claims have been processed in country.

    Sweeten the deal with lots of cash. Royal Navy also helps out France in the Med in return.

    As the bulk of the people on the boats come from countries where there is no legal route for them to claim asylum, how about we offer one? Nobody would go on the boat if there was an alternative.
    If we did that, how many do you think would apply and qualify?

    It could go up one-hundred fold.

    This is no answer without an answer on numbers.
    The answer remains that the current asylum process is unsustainable and unfit for purpose. It cannot long survive into the century where climate and population growth in unstable countries is going to result in unsustainable flows of people to more temperate and prosperous climes. This is what the government is trying to wrestle with with its "hostile environment" and now the Rwanda nonsense, neither of which even begin to address the pressures in the system.

    It also leads to complete absurdities. I was speaking to a friend yesterday who is acting for someone who has overstayed his academic visa because he has now got his qualifications and is employed by a front rank Scottish University teaching computing science. We are trying to send him back to Nigeria. Its completely absurd. We absolutely need people like this.

    Once we accept that asylum is entirely at our discretion and that we choose who comes here and whom we want or need immigration will not stop but it will be directed at our needs rather than those who are less fortunate. Harsh, but inevitable in my view.
    Without Rwanda, how do you stop the boats?

    Unless you’re prepared to sink them/watch people drown, Rwanda is the only option

    All this guff about “processing centres” is so much bullshit. France won’t do a deal with us because they want as many of them as possible in the UK, rather than France

    Simple as

    And they will keep crossing the Channel, rather than taking legal routes. because they know once they are here sans papiers we will shrug and say Stay
    Rwanda is an expensive waste of time and will deter no one. It does generate a good headline mind. See the Israeli effort in Rwanda, the free to roam detainees all roamed back to where they intended to first go.

    Your option B might work if anyone is heartless enough to try and sink the boats.

    Maybe as Rochdale suggested earlier, if we made more of an effort to tackle the organised criminal gangs that are working the illegal entries and running the immigrants by providing illegal employment once they are here, that would be significantly more useful than the half-assed idea of sending a couple of plane loads of Afghans, Vietnamese and Kurds to Rwanda each year. If they got to the UK once they can do it again.

    That wouldn't work. The demand is there, so someone will fill it. Eliminating a gang just makes life easier for another gang.

    Countries that are not wealthy will happily host UK processing centres. They will not become refugee camps, because claims would be vastly sped up - I see no reason for an assylum claim to take more than a week to be processed. If there are no assylum processing facilities in the UK, and no route to claiming assylum from the UK, non genuine claims will cease. Arrivals in the UK can be transported to a centre, have their claim processed in a week, genuine claimants come back to the UK and start their lives, and nothing is inhumane about it.

    Once this is clearly established, boat people will clearly have the intention of entering the UK illegally, with no plan to stay on a legal basis. They can be safely towed, with no idiots saying it's appalling treatment of refugees.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,764
    edited August 2022
    The other point about the Red Arrows that militates against their continued existence is that they are, by some margin, the most dangerous draft in the British armed forces. An RA pilot has about a 7% chance of being killed in their three year posting.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,280
    The Lib Dems would surely fancy NE Somerset in a by election but would Labour really give them a free go? Dorries's seat looks safer. Is this being co-ordinated to make life difficult for the new PM?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147
    edited August 2022

    ydoethur said:

    Stereodog said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Six months today, since this damn war started.

    Today is Independence Day in Ukraine.
    Indeed, something that’s not a co-incidence.

    Ukraine, of course, will remind everyone today that this war actually started eight years ago.

    I just hope it passes in relative peace today. I can’t afford any more windows.
    I’ve heard it argued that the Third World War started eight years ago. And nobody noticed.

    Hope it’s not Hundred Years' War II.

    Incidentally, Scotland and England (with Ireland & Wales) were on opposing sides in Hundred Years' War I. The Scottish side won.
    If this is WWIII I almost hope it is a hundred year war. It’ll be a 2 hour war that dooms humanity.
    Indeed. But if it’s nuclear holocaust that worries you (and it should), I’d be more concerned by hillbillies voting for Gael-offspring Trump.
    Slightly eccentric jump from claiming the Scots won the Hundred Years War to claiming World War III will be started by a Scotsman.
    No eccentricity required.

    Scots won Hundred Years' War I. Slam dunk.

    Third World War (puhrleese no shite Yankee “WWIII” nonsense) started by a son of a Gael. Perfectly feasible. Unfortunately.
    Before the Act of Union the Scots were often in league with the French against England, not just in the Hundred Years War but James IVths alliance with Louis XII leading to Flodden Field and then Mary
    Queen of Scots. Then of course the Jacobite Rebellions too with French backing
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,853
    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709
    HYUFD said:

    Chinese government finally acknowledges the aggression of the Americans towards us in the US War of Independence and the War of 1812

    https://twitter.com/CGMeifangZhang/status/1562061254780411904?s=20&t=ZWicWNKWLFVfBRMm_hFGHA

    “us”

    Hilarious on several levels.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,523
    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    So is mine, looks like lots of bots spamming various pages.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147
    Charlie Crist wins the Democrat primary to face DeSantis in November's Florida Governor election


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62655157
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,507
    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    Is it showing bathing beaches around the UK? :D
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,325
    edited August 2022

    The Lib Dems would surely fancy NE Somerset in a by election but would Labour really give them a free go? Dorries's seat looks safer. Is this being co-ordinated to make life difficult for the new PM?

    I think the LDs would go for both of them. A big slice of the Mid Beds seat is in the Bedford Borough where the LDs are in control and have won the elected mayoralty at four elections in succession
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,401
    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    Is it doing the thing where it forces you to watch random short videos aka "reels" from complete strangers?

    It's all part of Meta's drive to turn all their services into tiktok clones.

    They tried it with Instagram and people rightly told them to eff off.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jul/26/instagram-changes-user-backlash-trying-to-be-tiktok

    Social media these days seems all about pushing content on you from complete strangers, whereas I thought the point of it was to be able to connect with friends.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Notable how so many of the PBers critical of English attitudes to migrants actually live in empty, all white northern Scotland, or even emptier Sweden

    So many of our current problems come from the fact that England - southern England especially - has too many people and not enough infrastructure to support them. From housing to sewage, we are overcrowded

    And then there are the other problems brought by mass immigration, which are uncomfortable for middle class liberals to talk about, but nonetheless exist

    Enough. If the UKG doesn’t get a grip on this then the voters will seek a government that does. And it won’t be Labour

    In this light Brexit will be seen as merely the opening shot

    That is your country boy incomer Cornish yokel self speaking.

    Londoners, with I'm sure the highest proportion of immigration in the country, are generally super welcoming to immigrants.
    Such tedious liberal bilge. Complacent and dim

    If the dinghy people keep coming at the rate they are coming - 1300 on Monday - watch this issue surge to prominence again. Especially in a deep recession

    It’s human nature
    "A MAN who feels immigration is negatively affecting his life cannot give a single concrete example of how, he has revealed.

    Roy Hobbs, from Worcester, is vehemently opposed to immigration but can never explain how it has harmed him or anyone he knows.

    Hobbs said: “Immigration forces wages down. Not for middle-class people like me, obviously, but for simple working class folk. I can’t give you any examples, but a man on Question Time said it.

    “They’re damaging our culture. I’m not sure how someone talking Polish on the bus is harming British culture in the same way as, say, banning Shakespeare, but it probably is."


    https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/man-claims-hius-life-being-ruined-by-immigration-but-cant-explain-how-20170227122932
    Wow. Crushing. An unfunny 5 year old Daily Mash riff
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,041

    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    So is mine, looks like lots of bots spamming various pages.
    They've changed the default setting. The good news is there's now a "recent" option which shows just your friends and pages you follow, in chronological order.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Rats on the streets cannot be far behind and, for once, I don't mean the tourists.

    Rats have “taken over” and replaced mice as the main vermin in Edinburgh, a pest controller has said, as the strike by refuse workers dragged on into its sixth day https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rats-take-over-as-rubbish-piles-up-in-edinburgh-bin-strike-fc0gsvcz3?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1661276319
    The volume of rubbish created by the Festival (and I don't mean the street theatre) is immense. The problem is becoming genuinely acute.
    Do you think that the flyposting problem from the Fringe is under control? The council did try to clamp down some time back. Not that I like the temporary poster boards and hoardings, though - horribly untidy.
    Of course not. But it is nearly over for another year. Soon it will be just us and the rats fighting for seats in the cafes and bars once again.
    I propose that we just shut down the Festival. The whole thing. International, Fringe, Comedy, Film, Book, Science, Politics, etc etc etc ad infinitum.

    The whole shebang. Bunch of twats from beginning to end.
    Whilst I agree with your description the Festival in its various guises is an essential part of the Edinburgh economy so we just have to grin and bear it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TimS said:



    We’re hosting a Ukrainian and I would say she’s been treated very well by most organisations she’s coming into contact with: the refugee council, the job centre, HMRC, even the home office have been OK, if a little bureaucratic.

    Good for her. Ours got fucked around for months but they were among the first arrivals.

    The eldest just passed her driving test which is a huge landmark. Equipment used: 2000 996 Targa in violettchromaflair (single year colour!) with the 5 speed Mercedes automatic transmission that everyone hates but makes it a doddle to drive.

    I just wanted to pay somebody to take it for her as many such and similar services are available on the Ukrainian diaspora Telegram channels but, not for the first time, the Mrs DA put her Louboutin down and exercised her spousal veto.
    Mrs DA must be a truly remarkable person.
    I’m sure Mrs DL is no slouch.
    She is a walking, living, breathing saint with the patience to match. Thank goodness.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    Dura_Ace said:

    TimS said:



    We’re hosting a Ukrainian and I would say she’s been treated very well by most organisations she’s coming into contact with: the refugee council, the job centre, HMRC, even the home office have been OK, if a little bureaucratic.

    Good for her. Ours got fucked around for months but they were among the first arrivals.

    The eldest just passed her driving test which is a huge landmark. Equipment used: 2000 996 Targa in violettchromaflair (single year colour!) with the 5 speed Mercedes automatic transmission that everyone hates but makes it a doddle to drive.

    I just wanted to pay somebody to take it for her as many such and similar services are available on the Ukrainian diaspora Telegram channels but, not for the first time, the Mrs DA put her Louboutin down and exercised her spousal veto.
    That is a heartwarming story further enhanced by the brutality with which it was told.

    Did she really pass in a purple 996? I suspect it cheered the examiner after a life of beige Corsas.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,306
    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/far-right-italian-leader-blasted-posting-rape-video-2022-08-22/

    Far-right leader Giorgia Meloni, leading the race to become Italy's next prime minister, was accused on Monday of shameful electioneering by her rivals after posting a video of a Ukrainian woman being raped by a migrant in an Italian city.

    The 55-year-old woman was assaulted on a pavement in the city of Piacenza early Sunday by an asylum seeker from Guinea, local officials said. The incident was videoed by someone in a flat overlooking the street and the assailant was arrested.

    Meloni, whose Brothers of Italy party heads the polls ahead of a Sept. 25 national election, tweeted the video, which had been posted on a newspaper website with the image blurred but the woman's cries clearly audible.

    "One cannot remain silent in the face of this atrocious episode of sexual violence against a Ukrainian woman carried out in daytime in Piacenza by an asylum seeker," Meloni wrote.

    "A hug to this woman. I will do everything I can to restore security to our cities."
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    geoffw said:

    @Sandpit as an insurance against more bombs, how about leaving the windows somewhat open? Wouldn't that mitigate blast damage?

    Ah, an interesting suggestion thanks. The last one was a little too close to have made much difference though, a missile 100m away!

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,019
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Notable how so many of the PBers critical of English attitudes to migrants actually live in empty, all white northern Scotland, or even emptier Sweden

    So many of our current problems come from the fact that England - southern England especially - has too many people and not enough infrastructure to support them. From housing to sewage, we are overcrowded

    And then there are the other problems brought by mass immigration, which are uncomfortable for middle class liberals to talk about, but nonetheless exist

    Enough. If the UKG doesn’t get a grip on this then the voters will seek a government that does. And it won’t be Labour

    In this light Brexit will be seen as merely the opening shot

    That is your country boy incomer Cornish yokel self speaking.

    Londoners, with I'm sure the highest proportion of immigration in the country, are generally super welcoming to immigrants.
    Such tedious liberal bilge. Complacent and dim

    If the dinghy people keep coming at the rate they are coming - 1300 on Monday - watch this issue surge to prominence again. Especially in a deep recession

    It’s human nature
    "A MAN who feels immigration is negatively affecting his life cannot give a single concrete example of how, he has revealed.

    Roy Hobbs, from Worcester, is vehemently opposed to immigration but can never explain how it has harmed him or anyone he knows.

    Hobbs said: “Immigration forces wages down. Not for middle-class people like me, obviously, but for simple working class folk. I can’t give you any examples, but a man on Question Time said it.

    “They’re damaging our culture. I’m not sure how someone talking Polish on the bus is harming British culture in the same way as, say, banning Shakespeare, but it probably is."


    https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/man-claims-hius-life-being-ruined-by-immigration-but-cant-explain-how-20170227122932
    Wow. Crushing. An unfunny 5 year old Daily Mash riff
    As true now as it was then.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,376
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Rats on the streets cannot be far behind and, for once, I don't mean the tourists.

    Rats have “taken over” and replaced mice as the main vermin in Edinburgh, a pest controller has said, as the strike by refuse workers dragged on into its sixth day https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rats-take-over-as-rubbish-piles-up-in-edinburgh-bin-strike-fc0gsvcz3?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1661276319
    The volume of rubbish created by the Festival (and I don't mean the street theatre) is immense. The problem is becoming genuinely acute.
    Do you think that the flyposting problem from the Fringe is under control? The council did try to clamp down some time back. Not that I like the temporary poster boards and hoardings, though - horribly untidy.
    Of course not. But it is nearly over for another year. Soon it will be just us and the rats fighting for seats in the cafes and bars once again.
    I propose that we just shut down the Festival. The whole thing. International, Fringe, Comedy, Film, Book, Science, Politics, etc etc etc ad infinitum.

    The whole shebang. Bunch of twats from beginning to end.
    Whilst I agree with your description the Festival in its various guises is an essential part of the Edinburgh economy so we just have to grin and bear it.
    It makes September in Edinburgh especially lovely.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    The other point about the Red Arrows that militates against their continued existence is that they are, by some margin, the most dangerous draft in the British armed forces. An RA pilot has about a 7% chance of being killed in their three year posting.

    I saw the Red Arrows do their stuff last year at the Sidmouth air show. They were absolutely, awe-inspiringly, fantastic. They are back again this Friday. I am looking forward to seeing them again. I am not going to read anything negative about them. I don't want it spoiled.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    edited August 2022

    I was at a clients yesterday, a bio-tech company, and they were thinking if they needed to buy a generator over the winter to cover themselves.

    I though it was a very sensible idea.

    Yep, some of us have been mentioning generators for months. Expect one in every supermarket car park this winter, and buy shares in the companies making them and renting them out.

    Not only is a diesel genny likely to be cheaper than grid power for commercial users, it’s going to have better uptime.

    IIRC, in the seventies they were finding imaginative ways to plug diesel trains and ships into the Grid.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709

    Dura_Ace said:

    The other point about the Red Arrows that militates against their continued existence is that they are, by some margin, the most dangerous draft in the British armed forces. An RA pilot has about a 7% chance of being killed in their three year posting.

    I saw the Red Arrows do their stuff last year at the Sidmouth air show. They were absolutely, awe-inspiringly, fantastic. They are back again this Friday. I am looking forward to seeing them again. I am not going to read anything negative about them. I don't want it spoiled.

    Google is not your friend.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 768

    Icarus said:

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.08 Liz Truss 93%
    13 Rishi Sunak 8%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%

    Do the more successful punters on here expect the prices to narrow as the close of this contest approaches? It does sound as if Sunak has converted some at the hustings. It must be very difficult to be sure that surveys of the voters of such an odd electorate are representative. Presumably the on line votes will available at the press of a button but the paper ones will take a while to count though as poll closes at 5pm on Friday why is the result not announced until Monday? How many of each type are expected.? Will the Conservative party actually give the numbers or just the percentages?
    Absent new information, you would expect Liz Truss's price to shorten. There are 12 days to the announcement on 5th September and 12 days is a long time to tie money up at a short price. Hmm; the header says 11 days; counting days is tricky, as anyone who has tried it on a computer will know. Christmas Eve is one day before Christmas Day, but is that really true at, say, five minutes to midnight? Seem to have veered off-topic there.

    But as you imply, there could be new information, what with the polls closing a full weekend before the announcement. I don't suppose the old lady bets but if she tells someone, in complete confidence, who mentions it to his favoured lobby correspondent, who... well, you get the picture.

    Also, as you say, it is possible, though unlikely, that the opinion polls are wrong. Generally Rishi seems to go down better at debates and hustings but the polls show Liz Truss has a 2 to 1 (or more) lead amongst the members, and many will have voted without watching any hustings, let alone all of them (still three official hustings to go). But I'm not holding my breath for a Sunak revival and cashed out a couple of Rishi bets this week, but not all of them!
    Which debates and hustings have you been watching? He's been God-awful in the ones I've seen.
    It is all relative. There are only two to choose from and Truss surely has been worse!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,743

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Rats on the streets cannot be far behind and, for once, I don't mean the tourists.

    Rats have “taken over” and replaced mice as the main vermin in Edinburgh, a pest controller has said, as the strike by refuse workers dragged on into its sixth day https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rats-take-over-as-rubbish-piles-up-in-edinburgh-bin-strike-fc0gsvcz3?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1661276319
    The volume of rubbish created by the Festival (and I don't mean the street theatre) is immense. The problem is becoming genuinely acute.
    Do you think that the flyposting problem from the Fringe is under control? The council did try to clamp down some time back. Not that I like the temporary poster boards and hoardings, though - horribly untidy.
    Of course not. But it is nearly over for another year. Soon it will be just us and the rats fighting for seats in the cafes and bars once again.
    I propose that we just shut down the Festival. The whole thing. International, Fringe, Comedy, Film, Book, Science, Politics, etc etc etc ad infinitum.

    The whole shebang. Bunch of twats from beginning to end.
    Whilst I agree with your description the Festival in its various guises is an essential part of the Edinburgh economy so we just have to grin and bear it.
    It makes September in Edinburgh especially lovely.
    If the binmen fail to collect the unfunny jokes that the fringe keeps on leaving on pavements there will be a major public health crisis.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,764
    edited August 2022



    Did she really pass in a purple 996? I suspect it cheered the examiner after a life of beige Corsas.

    Yes, it is the only automatic I have. Cost £249/month to insure it for a learner driver...

    I am now fixing up a 2013 Mk.7 GTI with DSG for her. (ex-Copart 'bargain')
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,732
    Sandpit said:

    I was at a clients yesterday, a bio-tech company, and they were thinking if they needed to buy a generator over the winter to cover themselves.

    I though it was a very sensible idea.

    Yep, some of us have been mentioning generators for months. Expect one in every supermarket car park this winter, and buy shares in the companies making them and renting them out.

    Not only is a diesel genny likely to be cheaper than grid power for commercial users, it’s going to have better uptime.

    IIRC, in the seventies they were finding imaginative ways to plug diesel trains and ships into the Grid.
    All part of our slide into the third world.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,743
    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    So is mine, looks like lots of bots spamming various pages.
    They've changed the default setting. The good news is there's now a "recent" option which shows just your friends and pages you follow, in chronological order.
    It is possible to live a life without having any idea what Facebook is or how it works.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,709
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    I was at a clients yesterday, a bio-tech company, and they were thinking if they needed to buy a generator over the winter to cover themselves.

    I though it was a very sensible idea.

    Yep, some of us have been mentioning generators for months. Expect one in every supermarket car park this winter, and buy shares in the companies making them and renting them out.

    Not only is a diesel genny likely to be cheaper than grid power for commercial users, it’s going to have better uptime.

    IIRC, in the seventies they were finding imaginative ways to plug diesel trains and ships into the Grid.
    All part of our slide into the third world.
    Indeed.

    They’ll be sending Frau Sandpit and her pals down the waterhole with her plastic jugs. And calling the desert victory.

  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,041
    algarkirk said:

    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    So is mine, looks like lots of bots spamming various pages.
    They've changed the default setting. The good news is there's now a "recent" option which shows just your friends and pages you follow, in chronological order.
    It is possible to live a life without having any idea what Facebook is or how it works.

    It is possible to live a life without having any idea what PB is or how it works, but I wouldn't recommend that either.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,019
    Dura_Ace said:



    Did she really pass in a purple 996? I suspect it cheered the examiner after a life of beige Corsas.

    Yes, it is the only automatic I have. Cost £249/month to insure it for a learner driver...

    I am now fixing up a 2013 Mk.7 GTI with DSG for her. (ex-Copart 'bargain')
    I was once stepping out with a young American lady and she wanted to learn stick shift. The only available car then was my Chimaera (the 4L), which was enhanced, imo, by having learner plates on it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,019
    algarkirk said:

    Driver said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    So is mine, looks like lots of bots spamming various pages.
    They've changed the default setting. The good news is there's now a "recent" option which shows just your friends and pages you follow, in chronological order.
    It is possible to live a life without having any idea what Facebook is or how it works.

    Absolutely. About two years ago I was about to come off it for good (I only ever view peoples' breakfasts and see what wonderful lives everyone else is living). Almost that morning someone posted a photo of some 25 years ago of a group of friends that I hadn't seen since that time and we all got gabbing, etc; it was fantastic. So it does have its occasional uses.
  • Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT - I think the deal is obvious.

    The UK needs to agree with France that boats can be intercepted by them in French waters, with their permission, and all aboard landed back in Calais. No-one gets into UK waters.

    The UK then agrees to accept a quota of vulnerable migrants directly from France once (and only once) these claims have been processed in country.

    Sweeten the deal with lots of cash. Royal Navy also helps out France in the Med in return.

    As the bulk of the people on the boats come from countries where there is no legal route for them to claim asylum, how about we offer one? Nobody would go on the boat if there was an alternative.
    If we did that, how many do you think would apply and qualify?

    It could go up one-hundred fold.

    This is no answer without an answer on numbers.
    The answer remains that the current asylum process is unsustainable and unfit for purpose. It cannot long survive into the century where climate and population growth in unstable countries is going to result in unsustainable flows of people to more temperate and prosperous climes. This is what the government is trying to wrestle with with its "hostile environment" and now the Rwanda nonsense, neither of which even begin to address the pressures in the system.

    It also leads to complete absurdities. I was speaking to a friend yesterday who is acting for someone who has overstayed his academic visa because he has now got his qualifications and is employed by a front rank Scottish University teaching computing science. We are trying to send him back to Nigeria. Its completely absurd. We absolutely need people like this.

    Once we accept that asylum is entirely at our discretion and that we choose who comes here and whom we want or need immigration will not stop but it will be directed at our needs rather than those who are less fortunate. Harsh, but inevitable in my view.
    Without Rwanda, how do you stop the boats?

    Unless you’re prepared to sink them/watch people drown, Rwanda is the only option

    All this guff about “processing centres” is so much bullshit. France won’t do a deal with us because they want as many of them as possible in the UK, rather than France

    Simple as

    And they will keep crossing the Channel, rather than taking legal routes. because they know once they are here sans papiers we will shrug and say Stay
    Rwanda is an expensive waste of time and will deter no one. It does generate a good headline mind. See the Israeli effort in Rwanda, the free to roam detainees all roamed back to where they intended to first go.

    Your option B might work if anyone is heartless enough to try and sink the boats.

    Maybe as Rochdale suggested earlier, if we made more of an effort to tackle the organised criminal gangs that are working the illegal entries and running the immigrants by providing illegal employment once they are here, that would be significantly more useful than the half-assed idea of sending a couple of plane loads of Afghans, Vietnamese and Kurds to Rwanda each year. If they got to the UK once they can do it again.

    Rwanda will deter people if they know they'll actually be sent there.

    If they're not, then it won't.

    The Australian system worked by saying everyone, regardless of circumstances, would go.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,955

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT - I think the deal is obvious.

    The UK needs to agree with France that boats can be intercepted by them in French waters, with their permission, and all aboard landed back in Calais. No-one gets into UK waters.

    The UK then agrees to accept a quota of vulnerable migrants directly from France once (and only once) these claims have been processed in country.

    Sweeten the deal with lots of cash. Royal Navy also helps out France in the Med in return.

    As the bulk of the people on the boats come from countries where there is no legal route for them to claim asylum, how about we offer one? Nobody would go on the boat if there was an alternative.
    If we did that, how many do you think would apply and qualify?

    It could go up one-hundred fold.

    This is no answer without an answer on numbers.
    The answer remains that the current asylum process is unsustainable and unfit for purpose. It cannot long survive into the century where climate and population growth in unstable countries is going to result in unsustainable flows of people to more temperate and prosperous climes. This is what the government is trying to wrestle with with its "hostile environment" and now the Rwanda nonsense, neither of which even begin to address the pressures in the system.

    It also leads to complete absurdities. I was speaking to a friend yesterday who is acting for someone who has overstayed his academic visa because he has now got his qualifications and is employed by a front rank Scottish University teaching computing science. We are trying to send him back to Nigeria. Its completely absurd. We absolutely need people like this.

    Once we accept that asylum is entirely at our discretion and that we choose who comes here and whom we want or need immigration will not stop but it will be directed at our needs rather than those who are less fortunate. Harsh, but inevitable in my view.
    Without Rwanda, how do you stop the boats?

    Unless you’re prepared to sink them/watch people drown, Rwanda is the only option

    All this guff about “processing centres” is so much bullshit. France won’t do a deal with us because they want as many of them as possible in the UK, rather than France

    Simple as

    And they will keep crossing the Channel, rather than taking legal routes. because they know once they are here sans papiers we will shrug and say Stay
    Rwanda is an expensive waste of time and will deter no one. It does generate a good headline mind. See the Israeli effort in Rwanda, the free to roam detainees all roamed back to where they intended to first go.

    Your option B might work if anyone is heartless enough to try and sink the boats.

    Maybe as Rochdale suggested earlier, if we made more of an effort to tackle the organised criminal gangs that are working the illegal entries and running the immigrants by providing illegal employment once they are here, that would be significantly more useful than the half-assed idea of sending a couple of plane loads of Afghans, Vietnamese and Kurds to Rwanda each year. If they got to the UK once they can do it again.

    That wouldn't work. The demand is there, so someone will fill it. Eliminating a gang just makes life easier for another gang.

    Countries that are not wealthy will happily host UK processing centres. They will not become refugee camps, because claims would be vastly sped up - I see no reason for an assylum claim to take more than a week to be processed. If there are no assylum processing facilities in the UK, and no route to claiming assylum from the UK, non genuine claims will cease. Arrivals in the UK can be transported to a centre, have their claim processed in a week, genuine claimants come back to the UK and start their lives, and nothing is inhumane about it.

    Once this is clearly established, boat people will clearly have the intention of entering the UK illegally, with no plan to stay on a legal basis. They can be safely towed, with no idiots saying it's appalling treatment of refugees.
    The majority of those arriving in boats are deemed genuine refugees and allowed to stay. They mostly come from a handful of countries experiencing conflict or severe political repression. There should be legal routes for these people to come here. Currently only those from Ukraine, Syria and Afghanistan have any legal routes to come, and even these are extremely difficult to obtain.
    On a more positive note, we have successfully purchased a local flat to house an Afghan or Syrian refugee family, and our group expects them to arrive by the end of the year. We have been overwhelmed by the generosity of local people towards our group. While there is plenty of hostility towards refugees especially in the press, don't assume that it is universal. There are plenty of us who feel differently.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,914
    Dura_Ace said:



    Did she really pass in a purple 996? I suspect it cheered the examiner after a life of beige Corsas.

    Yes, it is the only automatic I have. Cost £249/month to insure it for a learner driver...

    I am now fixing up a 2013 Mk.7 GTI with DSG for her. (ex-Copart 'bargain')
    I've had auto since 1994 and I wouldn't want to change. You really get used to it. However I do still miss aspects of manual even after all these years - in particular toying with the 'biting point' and the gear change from 2nd to 3rd, bottom left to top right, done with a flourish and plenty of wrist action. I sometimes try to inject my auto change from 'N' to 'D' with some of this drama but it's not the same.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT - I think the deal is obvious.

    The UK needs to agree with France that boats can be intercepted by them in French waters, with their permission, and all aboard landed back in Calais. No-one gets into UK waters.

    The UK then agrees to accept a quota of vulnerable migrants directly from France once (and only once) these claims have been processed in country.

    Sweeten the deal with lots of cash. Royal Navy also helps out France in the Med in return.

    As the bulk of the people on the boats come from countries where there is no legal route for them to claim asylum, how about we offer one? Nobody would go on the boat if there was an alternative.
    If we did that, how many do you think would apply and qualify?

    It could go up one-hundred fold.

    This is no answer without an answer on numbers.
    The answer remains that the current asylum process is unsustainable and unfit for purpose. It cannot long survive into the century where climate and population growth in unstable countries is going to result in unsustainable flows of people to more temperate and prosperous climes. This is what the government is trying to wrestle with with its "hostile environment" and now the Rwanda nonsense, neither of which even begin to address the pressures in the system.

    It also leads to complete absurdities. I was speaking to a friend yesterday who is acting for someone who has overstayed his academic visa because he has now got his qualifications and is employed by a front rank Scottish University teaching computing science. We are trying to send him back to Nigeria. Its completely absurd. We absolutely need people like this.

    Once we accept that asylum is entirely at our discretion and that we choose who comes here and whom we want or need immigration will not stop but it will be directed at our needs rather than those who are less fortunate. Harsh, but inevitable in my view.
    Without Rwanda, how do you stop the boats?

    Unless you’re prepared to sink them/watch people drown, Rwanda is the only option

    All this guff about “processing centres” is so much bullshit. France won’t do a deal with us because they want as many of them as possible in the UK, rather than France

    Simple as

    And they will keep crossing the Channel, rather than taking legal routes. because they know once they are here sans papiers we will shrug and say Stay
    Rwanda is an expensive waste of time and will deter no one. It does generate a good headline mind. See the Israeli effort in Rwanda, the free to roam detainees all roamed back to where they intended to first go.

    Your option B might work if anyone is heartless enough to try and sink the boats.

    Maybe as Rochdale suggested earlier, if we made more of an effort to tackle the organised criminal gangs that are working the illegal entries and running the immigrants by providing illegal employment once they are here, that would be significantly more useful than the half-assed idea of sending a couple of plane loads of Afghans, Vietnamese and Kurds to Rwanda each year. If they got to the UK once they can do it again.

    That wouldn't work. The demand is there, so someone will fill it. Eliminating a gang just makes life easier for another gang.

    Countries that are not wealthy will happily host UK processing centres. They will not become refugee camps, because claims would be vastly sped up - I see no reason for an assylum claim to take more than a week to be processed. If there are no assylum processing facilities in the UK, and no route to claiming assylum from the UK, non genuine claims will cease. Arrivals in the UK can be transported to a centre, have their claim processed in a week, genuine claimants come back to the UK and start their lives, and nothing is inhumane about it.

    Once this is clearly established, boat people will clearly have the intention of entering the UK illegally, with no plan to stay on a legal basis. They can be safely towed, with no idiots saying it's appalling treatment of refugees.
    The majority of those arriving in boats are deemed genuine refugees and allowed to stay. They mostly come from a handful of countries experiencing conflict or severe political repression. There should be legal routes for these people to come here. Currently only those from Ukraine, Syria and Afghanistan have any legal routes to come, and even these are extremely difficult to obtain.
    On a more positive note, we have successfully purchased a local flat to house an Afghan or Syrian refugee family, and our group expects them to arrive by the end of the year. We have been overwhelmed by the generosity of local people towards our group. While there is plenty of hostility towards refugees especially in the press, don't assume that it is universal. There are plenty of us who feel differently.
    PB liberal nitwits:


    “The majority of those arriving in boats are deemed genuine refugees and allowed to stay. They mostly come from a handful of countries experiencing conflict or severe political repression”

    Reality:

    “Almost four in 10 Channel migrants are from Albania, where there has not been a conflict for a quarter of a century, a military intelligence report reveals.

    The document, marked “official sensitive”, shows that almost three times as many migrants arriving in the UK from France came from Albania than any other nation.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/06/four-10-channel-migrants-peaceful-albania/
  • Pulpstar said:

    My facebook feed is showing complete shit. The perturbing thing is it's different to the normal shit.

    I stopped using Facebook ages ago as the platform is utter shite now.

    Just went to check and I've got more things showing "suggested for you" from Pages I don't follow than posts from my actual Friends that I do. And that's not even including the ads. At many points scrolling down it shows "suggested message", ad, "suggested message".

    No thanks. If I was interested in those pages, I'd be following them, I'm not.
This discussion has been closed.