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ConHome survey has Truss 32% ahead – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,297
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Shitty Britain.

    FFS - yesterday was as a result of the heavy storms causing overflows, as has happened for a very long time. It doesn't help make arguments to be so disingenuous.
    Why allow facts to get in the way of a good rant though?
    Not only heavy storms but heavy storms landing on bone dry and rock hard surfaces with very rapid run off as a result. Totally unsurprising and, as usual, Brexit is completely and utterly irrelevant to what happened.
    You don't understand.

    Brexit is to blame for current weather conditions, Covid, and the war in Ukraine.
    You don't understand.

    The EU was blamed for everything sub optimal and now the wheel has turned. It's your tiger, ride it.
    I was mildly harangued by a Remoaner friend over wine at the Edinburgh Castle in Camden yesterday. “Well, what about Brexit? It’s terrible isn’t it??”

    I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that...
    @TOPPING regularly contradicts you on that odd claim.
    "I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that..."

    is @Leon's safe space. I would hate to wrench him out of it.
    It’s an interesting conclusion for Leon because it’s an admission there is certainly no - and never was - any case on the grounds of economics, social services, geopolitics, or even - it now seems - on immigration.

    In my opinion, Brexit will succeed if it is understood as a project of democratic renewal. If not, it will come to be framed as a great betrayal.
    “ Thirdly, there will be blood. Brexit is going to be painful, like childbirth. It just is. The Leave quacks who promised a brisk and blissful delivery don’t have enough diamorphine to dull the nerves. We might need epidurals from the Treasury. We will swear a lot, and not care. It might be rather embarrassing but again, we probably won’t care, because we’ll be concentrating on the pain. Other countries will look at us and think 'I’m never going through that'. Immediately after Brexit, we will likely appear reduced, saggy, wrinkled.

    Then comes the depression. It’s unavoidable. Overnight, your horizons have shrunk to a nursery room, some cheap Lidl shiraz, and the sound of a fiendishly annoying plastic toy which sings 'Froggy goes a courting he did ride uh-huh' over and over again. The house is a mess, all the time, in every way. You haven’t slept properly for several economic quarters. And so, at one point you will stare at a bowl of mushed baby food, and then you’ll soulfully ask yourself: Why did I ever do this?

    But lastly, cheer up. In the end, no matter how bad the depressions, or how annoying the nappies, very few people regret becoming a parent. It will be the same for Brexit. In ten years’ time we’ll look through the kitchen window of renewed prosperity, watch the laughing Remainers playing football with our smiling Brexit child, and we’ll quietly sip tea from a Union Jack mug, and we’ll think: best thing I ever did.”


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby
    The analogy works perfectly as long as the mother in question is Mia Farrow in Rosemary's Baby.
    It's where the metaphor breaks down, very few parents regret their newborn like Brits regret Brexit.

    But it does reveal the mad intensity of the would-be grandparent, desperate for offspring because they won't be the ones changing the nappies.
    Lots of parents regret having a baby when, right from the beginning, the father never wanted it. That's just part of the genius that is @SeanT's analogy

    I hate praising him, because - apart from anything else - he was a smug git, but he genuinely nailed it there

    Read the piece. Marvel at the brilliance. The Remainers are a father who gave the Leavers a pity fuck - that's David Cameron granting a referendum - AKA a one night stand with the plebs. Then life goes back to normal, or so the suave Lothario assumed

    Instead, she got pregnant and said "I'm keeping it" and "you'll have to pay for it"

    Cue the incendiary outrage, and the angry questions to the Tory leadership - you said she was on The Pill! Then came the attempt to induce a dangerous late stage abortion by forcing gin on the expectant mother and pushing her downstairs - that's the attempted 2nd referendum

    Nonetheless, the baby was born. In the analogy it's now about 18 months old, squirting poo on @Scott_xP and @foxy, who have fervent daydreams about smothering it

    But the mother? After sleepless months of listening to the baby yowling and @foxy and @topping calling her a stupid slut, she's definitely had her doubts. But then she looks at the baby. And smiles
    Then there is the audience it was written for. There is no weak, grasping metaphor which suits their putrid world view, nor casual discriminatory slur that Spectator readers won't lap up.
    "Their putrid world view"

    You do know I love to provoke this kind of futile anger, don't you? It's caviar to the general
    I think you mean crack, to the particular.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Alistair said:

    I think it was a smart move by Biden to lower petrol prices a lot. But has he lowered them too far?

    https://twitter.com/conorsen/status/1560245698947387392

    I didn't realise US Petrol prices were Biden's to command.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,862
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Shitty Britain.

    FFS - yesterday was as a result of the heavy storms causing overflows, as has happened for a very long time. It doesn't help make arguments to be so disingenuous.
    Why allow facts to get in the way of a good rant though?
    Not only heavy storms but heavy storms landing on bone dry and rock hard surfaces with very rapid run off as a result. Totally unsurprising and, as usual, Brexit is completely and utterly irrelevant to what happened.
    You don't understand.

    Brexit is to blame for current weather conditions, Covid, and the war in Ukraine.
    You don't understand.

    The EU was blamed for everything sub optimal and now the wheel has turned. It's your tiger, ride it.
    I was mildly harangued by a Remoaner friend over wine at the Edinburgh Castle in Camden yesterday. “Well, what about Brexit? It’s terrible isn’t it??”

    I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that...
    @TOPPING regularly contradicts you on that odd claim.
    "I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that..."

    is @Leon's safe space. I would hate to wrench him out of it.
    It’s an interesting conclusion for Leon because it’s an admission there is certainly no - and never was - any case on the grounds of economics, social services, geopolitics, or even - it now seems - on immigration.

    In my opinion, Brexit will succeed if it is understood as a project of democratic renewal. If not, it will come to be framed as a great betrayal.
    “ Thirdly, there will be blood. Brexit is going to be painful, like childbirth. It just is. The Leave quacks who promised a brisk and blissful delivery don’t have enough diamorphine to dull the nerves. We might need epidurals from the Treasury. We will swear a lot, and not care. It might be rather embarrassing but again, we probably won’t care, because we’ll be concentrating on the pain. Other countries will look at us and think 'I’m never going through that'. Immediately after Brexit, we will likely appear reduced, saggy, wrinkled.

    Then comes the depression. It’s unavoidable. Overnight, your horizons have shrunk to a nursery room, some cheap Lidl shiraz, and the sound of a fiendishly annoying plastic toy which sings 'Froggy goes a courting he did ride uh-huh' over and over again. The house is a mess, all the time, in every way. You haven’t slept properly for several economic quarters. And so, at one point you will stare at a bowl of mushed baby food, and then you’ll soulfully ask yourself: Why did I ever do this?

    But lastly, cheer up. In the end, no matter how bad the depressions, or how annoying the nappies, very few people regret becoming a parent. It will be the same for Brexit. In ten years’ time we’ll look through the kitchen window of renewed prosperity, watch the laughing Remainers playing football with our smiling Brexit child, and we’ll quietly sip tea from a Union Jack mug, and we’ll think: best thing I ever did.”


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby
    The analogy works perfectly as long as the mother in question is Mia Farrow in Rosemary's Baby.
    It's where the metaphor breaks down, very few parents regret their newborn like Brits regret Brexit.

    But it does reveal the mad intensity of the would-be grandparent, desperate for offspring because they won't be the ones changing the nappies.
    Lots of parents regret having a baby when, right from the beginning, the father never wanted it. That's just part of the genius that is @SeanT's analogy

    I hate praising him, because - apart from anything else - he was a smug git, but he genuinely nailed it there

    Read the piece. Marvel at the brilliance. The Remainers are a father who gave the Leavers a pity fuck - that's David Cameron granting a referendum - AKA a one night stand with the plebs. Then life goes back to normal, or so the suave Lothario assumed

    Instead, she got pregnant and said "I'm keeping it" and "you'll have to pay for it"

    Cue the incendiary outrage, and the angry questions to the Tory leadership - you said she was on The Pill! Then came the attempt to induce a dangerous late stage abortion by forcing gin on the expectant mother and pushing her downstairs - that's the attempted 2nd referendum

    Nonetheless, the baby was born. In the analogy it's now about 18 months old, squirting poo on @Scott_xP and @foxy, who have fervent daydreams about smothering it

    But the mother? After sleepless months of listening to the baby yowling and @foxy and @topping calling her a stupid slut, she's definitely had her doubts. But then she looks at the baby. And smiles
    Then there is the audience it was written for. There is no weak, grasping metaphor which suits their putrid world view, nor casual discriminatory slur that Spectator readers won't lap up.
    "Their putrid world view"

    You do know I love to provoke this kind of futile anger, don't you? It's caviar to the general
    I think you mean crack, to the particular.
    When it comes to insults, be not too tame neither.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,757
    MISTY said:
    Hold on isn't Ohio supposed to be reasonably safe in the GOP column these days ?
    It was for Trump.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882
    In the interests of transparency, I have had several Brexit regret moments, those moments when, in the perfect and immortal words of @SeanT I have "stared at a bowl of mushed baby food, and soulfully asked myself: Why did I ever do this?"


    The first and biggest pang came with my first proper trip to the EU after Actual Brexit. Majorca, summer 2021

    I did go to Greece in 2020 but everything was so crazed by Covid nothing else mattered. But in 2021 the world was returning to normal, and normal suddenly meant Whoah Brexit

    When I got my passport stamped at Palma - after an irritating queue in the Rest of World line - I actually asked myself: Why did I ever vote for this? And I had a few days of that nagging feeling. I love Spain and the Spanish are very nice. Why did I get a divorce from them?

    By the next trip to the EU - Athens later that summer - I was used to the queues and the feeling was diminishing. Now I do not notice the queues at all. I travel a lot, it's basically all the same: EU/non EU. If anything the EU 90 day rule makes me more adventurous, and makes me look beyond the EU. A good thing

    And I have also had a couple of moments back home when the relentless Remoanery dirge from the Guardian and the BBC has worn me down and I've thought Fuck, was it all worth it?

    But that's the genius of the analogy. They have been passing moments of regret, as expressly predicted, and now they have gone. I haven't had one in a year or so?

    I am glad we Brexited because sovereignty and democracy. It was the right decision. I cannot see anything that will now make me change my mind




  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Pulpstar said:

    MISTY said:
    Hold on isn't Ohio supposed to be reasonably safe in the GOP column these days ?
    It was for Trump.
    It is in most places.

    On here, Ron DeSantis isn't safe.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644
    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's the point of paying for a thumb on the scales if you don't get a thumb on the scales?


    Well, some of us pointed out at the time that using estimated grades was a cheat's charter.

    But curious that sixth-form colleges tended to not fiddle. Perhaps the teachers at those don't have quite the same pressures on them, but not sure.

    Grammars being best of the rest is presumably because they tend to get a lot of As anyway, so less scope to cheat.
    If affluent middle class people can't get their children into top academic institutions they will create their own top academic institutions or send their kids to other countries' top academic institutions.

    They will also start to question paying their taxes into to a system that does not work for them, as many are starting to do with the NHS.

    Hint: 30% of the taxes come from the top 1%.
    Hint: People who suggest 30% of the taxes come from the top 1% are either economically illiterate or deliberately misleading (the combination is possible as well of course).
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/ for MISTY.
    OK I left out the word income. In that article it suggests that the top 10% per cent probably pay not far short of 30% of all the indirect taxes as well as the direct ones.

    But hey, nitpick. Its better than trying to counter my argument, right?
    Your argument appears to be we should bias educational achievement to the benefit of the rich in case they stop paying taxes here…? I don’t think that’s going to be an electorally popular position.

    The reason the top 10% pay that much of the total tax base is because of wealth inequality. If we had an economy that more fairly distributed wealth, this would be less of an issue. I support moves to decrease inequality.
    No my argument is that candidates should be selected for university places based merit and not discriminated against because they have wealthy parents. Almost everybody is on board with that, I would have thought.

    I get it that you don't like middle class people, but the fact is they pay the bills. They always have, they always will. So snort it up.
    Thank you for clarifying what your point was. It’s apparent that several of us misunderstood what you were saying.

    Candidates should be selected on merit. I think we should also recognise that A’levels are not a perfect measure of merit.

    I love middle class people. I couldn’t be more middle class myself. Your original point was about the top 1%. I don’t regard the top 1% as middle class. The clue is in the words “middle” and “top”.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,695
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Shitty Britain.

    FFS - yesterday was as a result of the heavy storms causing overflows, as has happened for a very long time. It doesn't help make arguments to be so disingenuous.
    Why allow facts to get in the way of a good rant though?
    Not only heavy storms but heavy storms landing on bone dry and rock hard surfaces with very rapid run off as a result. Totally unsurprising and, as usual, Brexit is completely and utterly irrelevant to what happened.
    You don't understand.

    Brexit is to blame for current weather conditions, Covid, and the war in Ukraine.
    You don't understand.

    The EU was blamed for everything sub optimal and now the wheel has turned. It's your tiger, ride it.
    I was mildly harangued by a Remoaner friend over wine at the Edinburgh Castle in Camden yesterday. “Well, what about Brexit? It’s terrible isn’t it??”

    I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that...
    @TOPPING regularly contradicts you on that odd claim.
    "I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that..."

    is @Leon's safe space. I would hate to wrench him out of it.
    It’s an interesting conclusion for Leon because it’s an admission there is certainly no - and never was - any case on the grounds of economics, social services, geopolitics, or even - it now seems - on immigration.

    In my opinion, Brexit will succeed if it is understood as a project of democratic renewal. If not, it will come to be framed as a great betrayal.
    “ Thirdly, there will be blood. Brexit is going to be painful, like childbirth. It just is. The Leave quacks who promised a brisk and blissful delivery don’t have enough diamorphine to dull the nerves. We might need epidurals from the Treasury. We will swear a lot, and not care. It might be rather embarrassing but again, we probably won’t care, because we’ll be concentrating on the pain. Other countries will look at us and think 'I’m never going through that'. Immediately after Brexit, we will likely appear reduced, saggy, wrinkled.

    Then comes the depression. It’s unavoidable. Overnight, your horizons have shrunk to a nursery room, some cheap Lidl shiraz, and the sound of a fiendishly annoying plastic toy which sings 'Froggy goes a courting he did ride uh-huh' over and over again. The house is a mess, all the time, in every way. You haven’t slept properly for several economic quarters. And so, at one point you will stare at a bowl of mushed baby food, and then you’ll soulfully ask yourself: Why did I ever do this?

    But lastly, cheer up. In the end, no matter how bad the depressions, or how annoying the nappies, very few people regret becoming a parent. It will be the same for Brexit. In ten years’ time we’ll look through the kitchen window of renewed prosperity, watch the laughing Remainers playing football with our smiling Brexit child, and we’ll quietly sip tea from a Union Jack mug, and we’ll think: best thing I ever did.”


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby
    The analogy works perfectly as long as the mother in question is Mia Farrow in Rosemary's Baby.
    It's where the metaphor breaks down, very few parents regret their newborn like Brits regret Brexit.

    But it does reveal the mad intensity of the would-be grandparent, desperate for offspring because they won't be the ones changing the nappies.
    Lots of parents regret having a baby when, right from the beginning, the father never wanted it. That's just part of the genius that is @SeanT's analogy

    I hate praising him, because - apart from anything else - he was a smug git, but he genuinely nailed it there

    Read the piece. Marvel at the brilliance. The Remainers are a father who gave the Leavers a pity fuck - that's David Cameron granting a referendum - AKA a one night stand with the plebs. Then life goes back to normal, or so the suave Lothario assumed

    Instead, she got pregnant and said "I'm keeping it" and "you'll have to pay for it"

    Cue the incendiary outrage, and the angry questions to the Tory leadership - you said she was on The Pill! Then came the attempt to induce a dangerous late stage abortion by forcing gin on the expectant mother and pushing her downstairs - that's the attempted 2nd referendum

    Nonetheless, the baby was born. In the analogy it's now about 18 months old, squirting poo on @Scott_xP and @foxy, who have fervent daydreams about smothering it

    But the mother? After sleepless months of listening to the baby yowling and @foxy and @topping calling her a stupid slut, she's definitely had her doubts. But then she looks at the baby. And smiles
    Then there is the audience it was written for. There is no weak, grasping metaphor which suits their putrid world view, nor casual discriminatory slur that Spectator readers won't lap up.
    "Their putrid world view"

    You do know I love to provoke this kind of futile anger, don't you? It's caviar to the general
    Oh no I just shoved it into the Sean Thomas Random Word I Have a Thousand of Them to Write Generator.

    And out it came.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,343
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Shitty Britain.

    FFS - yesterday was as a result of the heavy storms causing overflows, as has happened for a very long time. It doesn't help make arguments to be so disingenuous.
    Why allow facts to get in the way of a good rant though?
    Not only heavy storms but heavy storms landing on bone dry and rock hard surfaces with very rapid run off as a result. Totally unsurprising and, as usual, Brexit is completely and utterly irrelevant to what happened.
    You don't understand.

    Brexit is to blame for current weather conditions, Covid, and the war in Ukraine.
    You don't understand.

    The EU was blamed for everything sub optimal and now the wheel has turned. It's your tiger, ride it.
    I was mildly harangued by a Remoaner friend over wine at the Edinburgh Castle in Camden yesterday. “Well, what about Brexit? It’s terrible isn’t it??”

    I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that...
    @TOPPING regularly contradicts you on that odd claim.
    "I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that..."

    is @Leon's safe space. I would hate to wrench him out of it.
    It’s an interesting conclusion for Leon because it’s an admission there is certainly no - and never was - any case on the grounds of economics, social services, geopolitics, or even - it now seems - on immigration.

    In my opinion, Brexit will succeed if it is understood as a project of democratic renewal. If not, it will come to be framed as a great betrayal.
    And since 2016 do the British people feel more enfranchisement? I don't think so, just the same oligarchs fleecing us and featherbedding their cronies.
    And tax-dodging - don't forget that. The EU was/is on the point of stamping out all our beautiful tax-dodging schemes. That was the really important one.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,812
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Shitty Britain.

    FFS - yesterday was as a result of the heavy storms causing overflows, as has happened for a very long time. It doesn't help make arguments to be so disingenuous.
    Why allow facts to get in the way of a good rant though?
    Not only heavy storms but heavy storms landing on bone dry and rock hard surfaces with very rapid run off as a result. Totally unsurprising and, as usual, Brexit is completely and utterly irrelevant to what happened.
    You don't understand.

    Brexit is to blame for current weather conditions, Covid, and the war in Ukraine.
    You don't understand.

    The EU was blamed for everything sub optimal and now the wheel has turned. It's your tiger, ride it.
    I was mildly harangued by a Remoaner friend over wine at the Edinburgh Castle in Camden yesterday. “Well, what about Brexit? It’s terrible isn’t it??”

    I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that...
    @TOPPING regularly contradicts you on that odd claim.
    "I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that..."

    is @Leon's safe space. I would hate to wrench him out of it.
    It’s an interesting conclusion for Leon because it’s an admission there is certainly no - and never was - any case on the grounds of economics, social services, geopolitics, or even - it now seems - on immigration.

    In my opinion, Brexit will succeed if it is understood as a project of democratic renewal. If not, it will come to be framed as a great betrayal.
    “ Thirdly, there will be blood. Brexit is going to be painful, like childbirth. It just is. The Leave quacks who promised a brisk and blissful delivery don’t have enough diamorphine to dull the nerves. We might need epidurals from the Treasury. We will swear a lot, and not care. It might be rather embarrassing but again, we probably won’t care, because we’ll be concentrating on the pain. Other countries will look at us and think 'I’m never going through that'. Immediately after Brexit, we will likely appear reduced, saggy, wrinkled.

    Then comes the depression. It’s unavoidable. Overnight, your horizons have shrunk to a nursery room, some cheap Lidl shiraz, and the sound of a fiendishly annoying plastic toy which sings 'Froggy goes a courting he did ride uh-huh' over and over again. The house is a mess, all the time, in every way. You haven’t slept properly for several economic quarters. And so, at one point you will stare at a bowl of mushed baby food, and then you’ll soulfully ask yourself: Why did I ever do this?

    But lastly, cheer up. In the end, no matter how bad the depressions, or how annoying the nappies, very few people regret becoming a parent. It will be the same for Brexit. In ten years’ time we’ll look through the kitchen window of renewed prosperity, watch the laughing Remainers playing football with our smiling Brexit child, and we’ll quietly sip tea from a Union Jack mug, and we’ll think: best thing I ever did.”


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby
    The analogy works perfectly as long as the mother in question is Mia Farrow in Rosemary's Baby.
    It's where the metaphor breaks down, very few parents regret their newborn like Brits regret Brexit.

    But it does reveal the mad intensity of the would-be grandparent, desperate for offspring because they won't be the ones changing the nappies.
    Lots of parents regret having a baby when, right from the beginning, the father never wanted it. That's just part of the genius that is @SeanT's analogy

    I hate praising him, because - apart from anything else - he was a smug git, but he genuinely nailed it there

    Read the piece. Marvel at the brilliance. The Remainers are a father who gave the Leavers a pity fuck - that's David Cameron granting a referendum - AKA a one night stand with the plebs. Then life goes back to normal, or so the suave Lothario assumed

    Instead, she got pregnant and said "I'm keeping it" and "you'll have to pay for it"

    Cue the incendiary outrage, and the angry questions to the Tory leadership - you said she was on The Pill! Then came the attempt to induce a dangerous late stage abortion by forcing gin on the expectant mother and pushing her downstairs - that's the attempted 2nd referendum

    Nonetheless, the baby was born. In the analogy it's now about 18 months old, squirting poo on @Scott_xP and @foxy, who have fervent daydreams about smothering it

    But the mother? After sleepless months of listening to the baby yowling and @foxy and @topping calling her a stupid slut, she's definitely had her doubts. But then she looks at the baby. And smiles
    Then there is the audience it was written for. There is no weak, grasping metaphor which suits their putrid world view, nor casual discriminatory slur that Spectator readers won't lap up.
    "Their putrid world view"

    You do know I love to provoke this kind of futile anger, don't you? It's caviar to the general
    I sometimes wonder what the free-living younger Leon would have made of the bastard cross between Victor Meldrew and Hugh Heffner that his older self has turned into.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,604
    ClippP said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Shitty Britain.

    FFS - yesterday was as a result of the heavy storms causing overflows, as has happened for a very long time. It doesn't help make arguments to be so disingenuous.
    Why allow facts to get in the way of a good rant though?
    Not only heavy storms but heavy storms landing on bone dry and rock hard surfaces with very rapid run off as a result. Totally unsurprising and, as usual, Brexit is completely and utterly irrelevant to what happened.
    You don't understand.

    Brexit is to blame for current weather conditions, Covid, and the war in Ukraine.
    You don't understand.

    The EU was blamed for everything sub optimal and now the wheel has turned. It's your tiger, ride it.
    I was mildly harangued by a Remoaner friend over wine at the Edinburgh Castle in Camden yesterday. “Well, what about Brexit? It’s terrible isn’t it??”

    I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that...
    @TOPPING regularly contradicts you on that odd claim.
    "I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that..."

    is @Leon's safe space. I would hate to wrench him out of it.
    It’s an interesting conclusion for Leon because it’s an admission there is certainly no - and never was - any case on the grounds of economics, social services, geopolitics, or even - it now seems - on immigration.

    In my opinion, Brexit will succeed if it is understood as a project of democratic renewal. If not, it will come to be framed as a great betrayal.
    And since 2016 do the British people feel more enfranchisement? I don't think so, just the same oligarchs fleecing us and featherbedding their cronies.
    And tax-dodging - don't forget that. The EU was/is on the point of stamping out all our beautiful tax-dodging schemes. That was the really important one.
    Citation needed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Shitty Britain.

    FFS - yesterday was as a result of the heavy storms causing overflows, as has happened for a very long time. It doesn't help make arguments to be so disingenuous.
    Why allow facts to get in the way of a good rant though?
    Not only heavy storms but heavy storms landing on bone dry and rock hard surfaces with very rapid run off as a result. Totally unsurprising and, as usual, Brexit is completely and utterly irrelevant to what happened.
    You don't understand.

    Brexit is to blame for current weather conditions, Covid, and the war in Ukraine.
    You don't understand.

    The EU was blamed for everything sub optimal and now the wheel has turned. It's your tiger, ride it.
    I was mildly harangued by a Remoaner friend over wine at the Edinburgh Castle in Camden yesterday. “Well, what about Brexit? It’s terrible isn’t it??”

    I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that...
    @TOPPING regularly contradicts you on that odd claim.
    "I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that..."

    is @Leon's safe space. I would hate to wrench him out of it.
    It’s an interesting conclusion for Leon because it’s an admission there is certainly no - and never was - any case on the grounds of economics, social services, geopolitics, or even - it now seems - on immigration.

    In my opinion, Brexit will succeed if it is understood as a project of democratic renewal. If not, it will come to be framed as a great betrayal.
    “ Thirdly, there will be blood. Brexit is going to be painful, like childbirth. It just is. The Leave quacks who promised a brisk and blissful delivery don’t have enough diamorphine to dull the nerves. We might need epidurals from the Treasury. We will swear a lot, and not care. It might be rather embarrassing but again, we probably won’t care, because we’ll be concentrating on the pain. Other countries will look at us and think 'I’m never going through that'. Immediately after Brexit, we will likely appear reduced, saggy, wrinkled.

    Then comes the depression. It’s unavoidable. Overnight, your horizons have shrunk to a nursery room, some cheap Lidl shiraz, and the sound of a fiendishly annoying plastic toy which sings 'Froggy goes a courting he did ride uh-huh' over and over again. The house is a mess, all the time, in every way. You haven’t slept properly for several economic quarters. And so, at one point you will stare at a bowl of mushed baby food, and then you’ll soulfully ask yourself: Why did I ever do this?

    But lastly, cheer up. In the end, no matter how bad the depressions, or how annoying the nappies, very few people regret becoming a parent. It will be the same for Brexit. In ten years’ time we’ll look through the kitchen window of renewed prosperity, watch the laughing Remainers playing football with our smiling Brexit child, and we’ll quietly sip tea from a Union Jack mug, and we’ll think: best thing I ever did.”


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby
    The analogy works perfectly as long as the mother in question is Mia Farrow in Rosemary's Baby.
    It's where the metaphor breaks down, very few parents regret their newborn like Brits regret Brexit.

    But it does reveal the mad intensity of the would-be grandparent, desperate for offspring because they won't be the ones changing the nappies.
    Lots of parents regret having a baby when, right from the beginning, the father never wanted it. That's just part of the genius that is @SeanT's analogy

    I hate praising him, because - apart from anything else - he was a smug git, but he genuinely nailed it there

    Read the piece. Marvel at the brilliance. The Remainers are a father who gave the Leavers a pity fuck - that's David Cameron granting a referendum - AKA a one night stand with the plebs. Then life goes back to normal, or so the suave Lothario assumed

    Instead, she got pregnant and said "I'm keeping it" and "you'll have to pay for it"

    Cue the incendiary outrage, and the angry questions to the Tory leadership - you said she was on The Pill! Then came the attempt to induce a dangerous late stage abortion by forcing gin on the expectant mother and pushing her downstairs - that's the attempted 2nd referendum

    Nonetheless, the baby was born. In the analogy it's now about 18 months old, squirting poo on @Scott_xP and @foxy, who have fervent daydreams about smothering it

    But the mother? After sleepless months of listening to the baby yowling and @foxy and @topping calling her a stupid slut, she's definitely had her doubts. But then she looks at the baby. And smiles
    Then there is the audience it was written for. There is no weak, grasping metaphor which suits their putrid world view, nor casual discriminatory slur that Spectator readers won't lap up.
    "Their putrid world view"

    You do know I love to provoke this kind of futile anger, don't you? It's caviar to the general
    I sometimes wonder what the free-living younger Leon would have made of the bastard cross between Victor Meldrew and Hugh Heffner that his older self has turned into.
    The 33 year old Younger Leon, trying to shake off another heroin overdose in the estaminets of Bloomsbury, would look on with incredulity that the Older Leon is


    1. Still alive
    2. Notably affluent
    3. Actually quite successful
    4. Divorced? So I got married????

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,542
    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    London is predicted 24C with showers. By trad August Bank Holiday standards that's a heatwave. We have very quickly got used to Mediterranean weather
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,233
    Leon said:

    But the mother? After sleepless months of listening to the baby yowling and @foxy and @topping calling her a stupid slut, she's definitely had her doubts. But then she looks at the baby. And smiles

    In your analogy the mother is a 13 year old forced to give birth by Brexiteers after being raped, her entire life ruined
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,695
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Shitty Britain.

    FFS - yesterday was as a result of the heavy storms causing overflows, as has happened for a very long time. It doesn't help make arguments to be so disingenuous.
    Why allow facts to get in the way of a good rant though?
    Not only heavy storms but heavy storms landing on bone dry and rock hard surfaces with very rapid run off as a result. Totally unsurprising and, as usual, Brexit is completely and utterly irrelevant to what happened.
    You don't understand.

    Brexit is to blame for current weather conditions, Covid, and the war in Ukraine.
    You don't understand.

    The EU was blamed for everything sub optimal and now the wheel has turned. It's your tiger, ride it.
    I was mildly harangued by a Remoaner friend over wine at the Edinburgh Castle in Camden yesterday. “Well, what about Brexit? It’s terrible isn’t it??”

    I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that...
    @TOPPING regularly contradicts you on that odd claim.
    "I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that..."

    is @Leon's safe space. I would hate to wrench him out of it.
    It’s an interesting conclusion for Leon because it’s an admission there is certainly no - and never was - any case on the grounds of economics, social services, geopolitics, or even - it now seems - on immigration.

    In my opinion, Brexit will succeed if it is understood as a project of democratic renewal. If not, it will come to be framed as a great betrayal.
    “ Thirdly, there will be blood. Brexit is going to be painful, like childbirth. It just is. The Leave quacks who promised a brisk and blissful delivery don’t have enough diamorphine to dull the nerves. We might need epidurals from the Treasury. We will swear a lot, and not care. It might be rather embarrassing but again, we probably won’t care, because we’ll be concentrating on the pain. Other countries will look at us and think 'I’m never going through that'. Immediately after Brexit, we will likely appear reduced, saggy, wrinkled.

    Then comes the depression. It’s unavoidable. Overnight, your horizons have shrunk to a nursery room, some cheap Lidl shiraz, and the sound of a fiendishly annoying plastic toy which sings 'Froggy goes a courting he did ride uh-huh' over and over again. The house is a mess, all the time, in every way. You haven’t slept properly for several economic quarters. And so, at one point you will stare at a bowl of mushed baby food, and then you’ll soulfully ask yourself: Why did I ever do this?

    But lastly, cheer up. In the end, no matter how bad the depressions, or how annoying the nappies, very few people regret becoming a parent. It will be the same for Brexit. In ten years’ time we’ll look through the kitchen window of renewed prosperity, watch the laughing Remainers playing football with our smiling Brexit child, and we’ll quietly sip tea from a Union Jack mug, and we’ll think: best thing I ever did.”


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby
    The analogy works perfectly as long as the mother in question is Mia Farrow in Rosemary's Baby.
    It's where the metaphor breaks down, very few parents regret their newborn like Brits regret Brexit.

    But it does reveal the mad intensity of the would-be grandparent, desperate for offspring because they won't be the ones changing the nappies.
    Lots of parents regret having a baby when, right from the beginning, the father never wanted it. That's just part of the genius that is @SeanT's analogy

    I hate praising him, because - apart from anything else - he was a smug git, but he genuinely nailed it there

    Read the piece. Marvel at the brilliance. The Remainers are a father who gave the Leavers a pity fuck - that's David Cameron granting a referendum - AKA a one night stand with the plebs. Then life goes back to normal, or so the suave Lothario assumed

    Instead, she got pregnant and said "I'm keeping it" and "you'll have to pay for it"

    Cue the incendiary outrage, and the angry questions to the Tory leadership - you said she was on The Pill! Then came the attempt to induce a dangerous late stage abortion by forcing gin on the expectant mother and pushing her downstairs - that's the attempted 2nd referendum

    Nonetheless, the baby was born. In the analogy it's now about 18 months old, squirting poo on @Scott_xP and @foxy, who have fervent daydreams about smothering it

    But the mother? After sleepless months of listening to the baby yowling and @foxy and @topping calling her a stupid slut, she's definitely had her doubts. But then she looks at the baby. And smiles
    Then there is the audience it was written for. There is no weak, grasping metaphor which suits their putrid world view, nor casual discriminatory slur that Spectator readers won't lap up.
    "Their putrid world view"

    You do know I love to provoke this kind of futile anger, don't you? It's caviar to the general
    I sometimes wonder what the free-living younger Leon would have made of the bastard cross between Victor Meldrew and Hugh Heffner that his older self has turned into.
    The 33 year old Younger Leon, trying to shake off another heroin overdose in the estaminets of Bloomsbury, would look on with incredulity that the Older Leon is


    1. Still alive
    2. Notably affluent
    3. Actually quite successful
    4. Divorced? So I got married????

    5. Now living in the Smoke; not bad for a country boy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    But the mother? After sleepless months of listening to the baby yowling and @foxy and @topping calling her a stupid slut, she's definitely had her doubts. But then she looks at the baby. And smiles

    In your analogy the mother is a 13 year old forced to give birth by Brexiteers after being raped, her entire life ruined
    At last you accept the analogy. We can quibble about the details later
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,233
    Leon said:

    At last you accept the analogy. We can quibble about the details later

    And you accept it is a catastrophic event that will scar the 'mother' for ever.

    And still you cheer...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,240
    Leon said:

    In the interests of transparency, I have had several Brexit regret moments, those moments when, in the perfect and immortal words of @SeanT I have "stared at a bowl of mushed baby food, and soulfully asked myself: Why did I ever do this?"


    The first and biggest pang came with my first proper trip to the EU after Actual Brexit. Majorca, summer 2021

    I did go to Greece in 2020 but everything was so crazed by Covid nothing else mattered. But in 2021 the world was returning to normal, and normal suddenly meant Whoah Brexit

    When I got my passport stamped at Palma - after an irritating queue in the Rest of World line - I actually asked myself: Why did I ever vote for this? And I had a few days of that nagging feeling. I love Spain and the Spanish are very nice. Why did I get a divorce from them?

    By the next trip to the EU - Athens later that summer - I was used to the queues and the feeling was diminishing. Now I do not notice the queues at all. I travel a lot, it's basically all the same: EU/non EU. If anything the EU 90 day rule makes me more adventurous, and makes me look beyond the EU. A good thing

    And I have also had a couple of moments back home when the relentless Remoanery dirge from the Guardian and the BBC has worn me down and I've thought Fuck, was it all worth it?

    But that's the genius of the analogy. They have been passing moments of regret, as expressly predicted, and now they have gone. I haven't had one in a year or so?

    I am glad we Brexited because sovereignty and democracy. It was the right decision. I cannot see anything that will now make me change my mind

    Will we ever see an end to this softhead triperooni?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    At last you accept the analogy. We can quibble about the details later

    And you accept it is a catastrophic event that will scar the 'mother' for ever.

    And still you cheer...
    Mate, you have a beautiful bonny Brexit baby. Stop planning fiendish ways of hurling it in the Thames. Rejoice in your role as a parent. Lean in to the experience. It's not like you have much choice, now
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,542
    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    London is predicted 24C with showers. By trad August Bank Holiday standards that's a heatwave. We have very quickly got used to Mediterranean weather
    I'm looking at the cold Arctic air plunge, which I guess doesn't reach London in the forecast you're looking at.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's the point of paying for a thumb on the scales if you don't get a thumb on the scales?


    Well, some of us pointed out at the time that using estimated grades was a cheat's charter.

    But curious that sixth-form colleges tended to not fiddle. Perhaps the teachers at those don't have quite the same pressures on them, but not sure.

    Grammars being best of the rest is presumably because they tend to get a lot of As anyway, so less scope to cheat.
    If affluent middle class people can't get their children into top academic institutions they will create their own top academic institutions or send their kids to other countries' top academic institutions.

    They will also start to question paying their taxes into to a system that does not work for them, as many are starting to do with the NHS.

    Hint: 30% of the taxes come from the top 1%.
    Hint: People who suggest 30% of the taxes come from the top 1% are either economically illiterate or deliberately misleading (the combination is possible as well of course).
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/ for MISTY.
    OK I left out the word income. In that article it suggests that the top 10% per cent probably pay not far short of 30% of all the indirect taxes as well as the direct ones.

    But hey, nitpick. Its better than trying to counter my argument, right?
    Your argument appears to be we should bias educational achievement to the benefit of the rich in case they stop paying taxes here…? I don’t think that’s going to be an electorally popular position.

    The reason the top 10% pay that much of the total tax base is because of wealth inequality. If we had an economy that more fairly distributed wealth, this would be less of an issue. I support moves to decrease inequality.
    No my argument is that candidates should be selected for university places based merit and not discriminated against because they have wealthy parents. Almost everybody is on board with that, I would have thought.

    I get it that you don't like middle class people, but the fact is they pay the bills. They always have, they always will. So snort it up.
    Odd point to make in the context of a claim that their merit is being systematically misrepresented.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,757
    Lol just seen Usyk at the presser. Peak Хохол :D
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,326
    ClippP said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Shitty Britain.

    FFS - yesterday was as a result of the heavy storms causing overflows, as has happened for a very long time. It doesn't help make arguments to be so disingenuous.
    Why allow facts to get in the way of a good rant though?
    Not only heavy storms but heavy storms landing on bone dry and rock hard surfaces with very rapid run off as a result. Totally unsurprising and, as usual, Brexit is completely and utterly irrelevant to what happened.
    You don't understand.

    Brexit is to blame for current weather conditions, Covid, and the war in Ukraine.
    You don't understand.

    The EU was blamed for everything sub optimal and now the wheel has turned. It's your tiger, ride it.
    I was mildly harangued by a Remoaner friend over wine at the Edinburgh Castle in Camden yesterday. “Well, what about Brexit? It’s terrible isn’t it??”

    I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that...
    @TOPPING regularly contradicts you on that odd claim.
    "I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that..."

    is @Leon's safe space. I would hate to wrench him out of it.
    It’s an interesting conclusion for Leon because it’s an admission there is certainly no - and never was - any case on the grounds of economics, social services, geopolitics, or even - it now seems - on immigration.

    In my opinion, Brexit will succeed if it is understood as a project of democratic renewal. If not, it will come to be framed as a great betrayal.
    And since 2016 do the British people feel more enfranchisement? I don't think so, just the same oligarchs fleecing us and featherbedding their cronies.
    And tax-dodging - don't forget that. The EU was/is on the point of stamping out all our beautiful tax-dodging schemes. That was the really important one.
    That’s an FBPE fact, not a real one:

    https://fullfact.org/online/brexit-not-concealing-offshore-accounts/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    In fact, we are cued up for another notable period of good weather, at least in SE England. London is going to be 23C-27C for the next two weeks, with plenty of sunshine and very little rain - only those showers on Monday

    That is perfect English summer weather: not too hot but nice and warm, some cloud for variety

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Indeed the only fly in the ointment is the near total lack of rain. The drought continueth
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,368
    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    In fact, we are cued up for another notable period of good weather, at least in SE England. London is going to be 23C-27C for the next two weeks, with plenty of sunshine and very little rain - only those showers on Monday

    That is perfect English summer weather: not too hot but nice and warm, some cloud for variety

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Indeed the only fly in the ointment is the near total lack of rain. The drought continueth
    Unexpected heavy showers down here in East Kent today. Almost ruined lunch with my mother and niece.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,695
    Pulpstar said:

    Lol just seen Usyk at the presser. Peak Хохол :D

    Can't see him losing, that said.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    London is predicted 24C with showers. By trad August Bank Holiday standards that's a heatwave. We have very quickly got used to Mediterranean weather
    I'm looking at the cold Arctic air plunge, which I guess doesn't reach London in the forecast you're looking at.
    Yes, I am being London-centric. I just checked the Glasgow forecast

    Oh

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Two weeks of 17-19C, plenty of rain, almost no sun at all. Most days entirely overcast

    I genuinely do not understand how Scots endure it
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,368
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    At last you accept the analogy. We can quibble about the details later

    And you accept it is a catastrophic event that will scar the 'mother' for ever.

    And still you cheer...
    Mate, you have a beautiful bonny Brexit baby. Stop planning fiendish ways of hurling it in the Thames. Rejoice in your role as a parent. Lean in to the experience. It's not like you have much choice, now
    Reading you, though, the whole "project" is at risk from Remainers under the bed. Where exactly does this analogy run out of room?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,326
    The latest FBPE conspiracy is that freeports are the pre-cursor to Charter Cities. It’s so nutty that even FBPErs Byline Times are trying to shut it down because it makes the movement look bad:

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/08/15/beware-the-charter-cities-conspiracy-theory/

    It seems to have originated with this chap, who is nuts:

    https://bakerstreetherald.com/

    Unfortunately, he has taken his website and twitter down as of today. Maybe he got embarassed into it, or maybe it’s just part of the crazy.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,757
    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol just seen Usyk at the presser. Peak Хохол :D

    Can't see him losing, that said.
    Didn't realise it was on till I heard about it on the radio at the weekend, seems to have flown under the radar.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    In fact, we are cued up for another notable period of good weather, at least in SE England. London is going to be 23C-27C for the next two weeks, with plenty of sunshine and very little rain - only those showers on Monday

    That is perfect English summer weather: not too hot but nice and warm, some cloud for variety

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Indeed the only fly in the ointment is the near total lack of rain. The drought continueth
    Unexpected heavy showers down here in East Kent today. Almost ruined lunch with my mother and niece.
    Beautiful here on the Marches of Primrose Hill. 26C and partly cloudy. The really heavy heat has gone, and this is lush. I kinda wish I wasn't going abroad tomorrow...
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Top quality trolling by The Donald

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/17/trump-endorses-dan-goldman-and-carolyn-maloney/

    Unexpectedly, some top quality Democrat whining about how Trump is trying to influence the primaries.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,328
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    London is predicted 24C with showers. By trad August Bank Holiday standards that's a heatwave. We have very quickly got used to Mediterranean weather
    I'm looking at the cold Arctic air plunge, which I guess doesn't reach London in the forecast you're looking at.
    Yes, I am being London-centric. I just checked the Glasgow forecast

    Oh

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Two weeks of 17-19C, plenty of rain, almost no sun at all. Most days entirely overcast

    I genuinely do not understand how Scots endure it
    Surely the real problem is how do we get this down to Lords in time to save the Test Match?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,862
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    London is predicted 24C with showers. By trad August Bank Holiday standards that's a heatwave. We have very quickly got used to Mediterranean weather
    I'm looking at the cold Arctic air plunge, which I guess doesn't reach London in the forecast you're looking at.
    Yes, I am being London-centric. I just checked the Glasgow forecast

    Oh

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Two weeks of 17-19C, plenty of rain, almost no sun at all. Most days entirely overcast

    I genuinely do not understand how Scots endure it
    Surely the real problem is how do we get this down to Lords in time to save the Test Match?
    Even rain wouldn't save this match.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,542
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    London is predicted 24C with showers. By trad August Bank Holiday standards that's a heatwave. We have very quickly got used to Mediterranean weather
    I'm looking at the cold Arctic air plunge, which I guess doesn't reach London in the forecast you're looking at.
    Yes, I am being London-centric. I just checked the Glasgow forecast

    Oh

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Two weeks of 17-19C, plenty of rain, almost no sun at all. Most days entirely overcast

    I genuinely do not understand how Scots endure it
    Yes. The BBC forecasts are based on the GFS model and there's a very large difference between the GFS and ECMWF models by day 10 of the forecast.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    At last you accept the analogy. We can quibble about the details later

    And you accept it is a catastrophic event that will scar the 'mother' for ever.

    And still you cheer...
    Mate, you have a beautiful bonny Brexit baby. Stop planning fiendish ways of hurling it in the Thames. Rejoice in your role as a parent. Lean in to the experience. It's not like you have much choice, now
    Reading you, though, the whole "project" is at risk from Remainers under the bed. Where exactly does this analogy run out of room?
    I don't believe it is truly at risk at all. There is some chance we will move much nearer to the SM and CU under Labour, but they will find it tough to square the circle of Free Movement, so even that is a doubt. I believe there is near-zero chance we will ever Rejoin as full members, we will get used to governing ourselves, and no one sane will want the trauma of another referendum, as long as we remember the last one

    Indeed, you may or may not believe it, I'd be delighted if we stopped talking about Brexit. That would be a healthy sign. And I could stop linking to Spectator articles ad nauseam. However, people do still want to talk about it - paranoid Leavers, bitterly angry Remoaners, the pain is sill there, and so we talk about it.

    But less, I think. We talk about it less - as the months pass
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,861
    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    In fact, we are cued up for another notable period of good weather, at least in SE England. London is going to be 23C-27C for the next two weeks, with plenty of sunshine and very little rain - only those showers on Monday

    That is perfect English summer weather: not too hot but nice and warm, some cloud for variety

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Indeed the only fly in the ointment is the near total lack of rain. The drought continueth
    Oh, don't you start - those of us who don't want to live in a permanent heatwave already get trolled by weather forecasters, who routinely assume sun=joy and more sun=more joy. Roll on total WFH so I can move to Scotland. Temperaturism will be illegal under my New Woke Republic.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,757
    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    I think it was a smart move by Biden to lower petrol prices a lot. But has he lowered them too far?

    https://twitter.com/conorsen/status/1560245698947387392

    The decoupling of the direction of the US and European economies seems rather pronounced.

    Inadvertently or not, Biden seems to have played economic rope-a-dope with the Republican opposition. If US inflation has already peaked, and there's decent growth this quarter, November's elections could be very interesting.
    Tends to happen when there's war in europe !
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,099
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    London is predicted 24C with showers. By trad August Bank Holiday standards that's a heatwave. We have very quickly got used to Mediterranean weather
    I'm looking at the cold Arctic air plunge, which I guess doesn't reach London in the forecast you're looking at.
    Yes, I am being London-centric. I just checked the Glasgow forecast

    Oh

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Two weeks of 17-19C, plenty of rain, almost no sun at all. Most days entirely overcast

    I genuinely do not understand how Scots endure it
    Love it. No nasty sunburn, lots of water for the reservoirs and crops.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,542
    edited August 18

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    London is predicted 24C with showers. By trad August Bank Holiday standards that's a heatwave. We have very quickly got used to Mediterranean weather
    I'm looking at the cold Arctic air plunge, which I guess doesn't reach London in the forecast you're looking at.
    Yes, I am being London-centric. I just checked the Glasgow forecast

    Oh

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Two weeks of 17-19C, plenty of rain, almost no sun at all. Most days entirely overcast

    I genuinely do not understand how Scots endure it
    Yes. The BBC forecasts are based on the GFS model and there's a very large difference between the GFS and ECMWF models by day 10 of the forecast.
    The Met Office long-range forecast has this to say about the period.

    "A northwest/southeast temperature split may also develop, whereby cooler polar air will characterise the north, with the south experiencing warmer air from the continent."

    But, well, you have looked at the BBC site specific forecasts so I'm sure you are the expert.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Re @Leon, two things the younger L would be proud of the older one are

    1. Being both consistently the centre of attention and talked about and

    2. Being able to consistently and effectively wind up so many people for such a long time
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    In fact, we are cued up for another notable period of good weather, at least in SE England. London is going to be 23C-27C for the next two weeks, with plenty of sunshine and very little rain - only those showers on Monday

    That is perfect English summer weather: not too hot but nice and warm, some cloud for variety

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Indeed the only fly in the ointment is the near total lack of rain. The drought continueth
    Oh, don't you start - those of us who don't want to live in a permanent heatwave already get trolled by weather forecasters, who routinely assume sun=joy and more sun=more joy. Roll on total WFH so I can move to Scotland. Temperaturism will be illegal under my New Woke Republic.

    Surely everyone enjoys 24C and Partly Cloudy, compared to 18C and overcast with drizzle?

    That's a serious question. Does anyone really prefer the latter? Sunshine is good for the mood. The pineal gland is stimulated, You turn your face to the source of light and warmth

  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    London is predicted 24C with showers. By trad August Bank Holiday standards that's a heatwave. We have very quickly got used to Mediterranean weather
    I'm looking at the cold Arctic air plunge, which I guess doesn't reach London in the forecast you're looking at.
    Yes, I am being London-centric. I just checked the Glasgow forecast

    Oh

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Two weeks of 17-19C, plenty of rain, almost no sun at all. Most days entirely overcast

    I genuinely do not understand how Scots endure it
    Yes. The BBC forecasts are based on the GFS model and there's a very large difference between the GFS and ECMWF models by day 10 of the forecast.
    The Met Office long-range forecast has this to say about the period.

    "A northwest/southeast temperature split may also develop, whereby cooler polar air will characterise the north, with the south experiencing warmer air from the continent."

    But, well, you have looked at the BBC site specific forecasts so I'm sure you are the expert.
    Why are you @LostPassword being so snide about the weather insights of... < checks screen > @LostPassword?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    I think it was a smart move by Biden to lower petrol prices a lot. But has he lowered them too far?

    https://twitter.com/conorsen/status/1560245698947387392

    The decoupling of the direction of the US and European economies seems rather pronounced.

    Inadvertently or not, Biden seems to have played economic rope-a-dope with the Republican opposition. If US inflation has already peaked, and there's decent growth this quarter, November's elections could be very interesting.
    Tends to happen when there's war in europe !
    Though the direction of the US and European economies seem to have been decoupled ever since about 1993, not just in recent months.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,695
    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lol just seen Usyk at the presser. Peak Хохол :D

    Can't see him losing, that said.
    Didn't realise it was on till I heard about it on the radio at the weekend, seems to have flown under the radar.
    LOL

    Actually I'm looking forward to Shields-Marshall as much if not more.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,240
    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's the point of paying for a thumb on the scales if you don't get a thumb on the scales?


    Well, some of us pointed out at the time that using estimated grades was a cheat's charter.

    But curious that sixth-form colleges tended to not fiddle. Perhaps the teachers at those don't have quite the same pressures on them, but not sure.

    Grammars being best of the rest is presumably because they tend to get a lot of As anyway, so less scope to cheat.
    If affluent middle class people can't get their children into top academic institutions they will create their own top academic institutions or send their kids to other countries' top academic institutions.

    They will also start to question paying their taxes into to a system that does not work for them, as many are starting to do with the NHS.

    Hint: 30% of the taxes come from the top 1%.
    Hint: People who suggest 30% of the taxes come from the top 1% are either economically illiterate or deliberately misleading (the combination is possible as well of course).
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/ for MISTY.
    OK I left out the word income. In that article it suggests that the top 10% per cent probably pay not far short of 30% of all the indirect taxes as well as the direct ones.

    But hey, nitpick. Its better than trying to counter my argument, right?
    Your argument appears to be we should bias educational achievement to the benefit of the rich in case they stop paying taxes here…? I don’t think that’s going to be an electorally popular position.

    The reason the top 10% pay that much of the total tax base is because of wealth inequality. If we had an economy that more fairly distributed wealth, this would be less of an issue. I support moves to decrease inequality.
    No my argument is that candidates should be selected for university places based merit and not discriminated against because they have wealthy parents. Almost everybody is on board with that, I would have thought.

    I get it that you don't like middle class people, but the fact is they pay the bills. They always have, they always will. So snort it up.
    "merit" - lol.

    This exchange for me nails the essence of the populist right politics you support. The one and only time it sides with 'ordinary people' is when it panders to and seeks to infame and electorally benefit from the bigotry that some of them are sometimes prone to.

    It's poison. Sorry but it really is.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    MISTY said:

    Alistair said:

    I think it was a smart move by Biden to lower petrol prices a lot. But has he lowered them too far?

    https://twitter.com/conorsen/status/1560245698947387392

    I didn't realise US Petrol prices were Biden's to command.
    Blimey, I didn't know. You should send a DM to the Republicans who were blaming him for the price rise.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,240
    MrEd said:

    Re @Leon, two things the younger L would be proud of the older one are

    1. Being both consistently the centre of attention and talked about and

    2. Being able to consistently and effectively wind up so many people for such a long time

    The exact same reasons you admire Donald Trump! - talk about a "tell".
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Pulpstar said:

    MISTY said:
    Hold on isn't Ohio supposed to be reasonably safe in the GOP column these days ?
    It was for Trump.
    Vance is one of the tranche of uniquely bad candidates the GOP Primary voters/Peter Thiel have picked.

    There are so many of them that "uniquely" starts to get over used.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,241
    I’m currently in Porto Alegre in the South of Brazil. It’s 12 degrees and drizzling. Feels like I’m in Manchester.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,645
    MrEd said:

    Top quality trolling by The Donald

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/17/trump-endorses-dan-goldman-and-carolyn-maloney/

    Unexpectedly, some top quality Democrat whining about how Trump is trying to influence the primaries.

    Biden 81 million
    Trump 74 million

    :innocent:
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,542
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    London is predicted 24C with showers. By trad August Bank Holiday standards that's a heatwave. We have very quickly got used to Mediterranean weather
    I'm looking at the cold Arctic air plunge, which I guess doesn't reach London in the forecast you're looking at.
    Yes, I am being London-centric. I just checked the Glasgow forecast

    Oh

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Two weeks of 17-19C, plenty of rain, almost no sun at all. Most days entirely overcast

    I genuinely do not understand how Scots endure it
    Yes. The BBC forecasts are based on the GFS model and there's a very large difference between the GFS and ECMWF models by day 10 of the forecast.
    The Met Office long-range forecast has this to say about the period.

    "A northwest/southeast temperature split may also develop, whereby cooler polar air will characterise the north, with the south experiencing warmer air from the continent."

    But, well, you have looked at the BBC site specific forecasts so I'm sure you are the expert.
    Why are you @LostPassword being so snide about the weather insights of... < checks screen > @LostPassword?
    It's the curse of those of us capable of self-reflection that it so often strays into excessive self-criticism.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,240
    MrEd said:

    Top quality trolling by The Donald

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/17/trump-endorses-dan-goldman-and-carolyn-maloney/

    Unexpectedly, some top quality Democrat whining about how Trump is trying to influence the primaries.

    Is a talent for "trolling" right up there in what you look for in a political leader then, Ed?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    MISTY said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MISTY said:
    Hold on isn't Ohio supposed to be reasonably safe in the GOP column these days ?
    It was for Trump.
    It is in most places.

    On here, Ron DeSantis isn't safe.
    DeSantis won his last election by 0.4%. It's not exactly a mortal lock (Disclaimer: I would be betting on De Santis winning if I was betting)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,645
    edited August 18
    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    In fact, we are cued up for another notable period of good weather, at least in SE England. London is going to be 23C-27C for the next two weeks, with plenty of sunshine and very little rain - only those showers on Monday

    That is perfect English summer weather: not too hot but nice and warm, some cloud for variety

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Indeed the only fly in the ointment is the near total lack of rain. The drought continueth
    We had plenty of rain yesterday! Had to wade ankle-deep across my road to my front door when I came back from central London yesterday afternoon.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,371
    edited August 18

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    13.5 Rishi Sunak 7%

    A big move off this poll.

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.05 Liz Truss 95%
    19.5 Rishi Sunak 5%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.04 Liz Truss 96%
    20 Rishi Sunak 5%
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.04 Liz Truss 96%
    21 Rishi Sunak 5%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.05 Liz Truss 95%
    20 Rishi Sunak 5%
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,645
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    In fact, we are cued up for another notable period of good weather, at least in SE England. London is going to be 23C-27C for the next two weeks, with plenty of sunshine and very little rain - only those showers on Monday

    That is perfect English summer weather: not too hot but nice and warm, some cloud for variety

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Indeed the only fly in the ointment is the near total lack of rain. The drought continueth
    Unexpected heavy showers down here in East Kent today. Almost ruined lunch with my mother and niece.
    Unexpected? The Met Office had a Yellow Warning for Kent.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MISTY said:
    Hold on isn't Ohio supposed to be reasonably safe in the GOP column these days ?
    It was for Trump.
    Vance is one of the tranche of uniquely bad candidates the GOP Primary voters/Peter Thiel have picked.

    There are so many of them that "uniquely" starts to get over used.
    Vance is not "uniquely bad" candidate. He may well be POTUS one day. Cracking backstory growing up dirt poor, marines, law school, bestselling biography etc etc.

    It is extremely disappointing to see him debase himself before the Trump cult in order to win and one can only hope he doesn't really mean a word of it.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's the point of paying for a thumb on the scales if you don't get a thumb on the scales?


    Well, some of us pointed out at the time that using estimated grades was a cheat's charter.

    But curious that sixth-form colleges tended to not fiddle. Perhaps the teachers at those don't have quite the same pressures on them, but not sure.

    Grammars being best of the rest is presumably because they tend to get a lot of As anyway, so less scope to cheat.
    If affluent middle class people can't get their children into top academic institutions they will create their own top academic institutions or send their kids to other countries' top academic institutions.

    They will also start to question paying their taxes into to a system that does not work for them, as many are starting to do with the NHS.

    Hint: 30% of the taxes come from the top 1%.
    Hint: People who suggest 30% of the taxes come from the top 1% are either economically illiterate or deliberately misleading (the combination is possible as well of course).
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/ for MISTY.
    OK I left out the word income. In that article it suggests that the top 10% per cent probably pay not far short of 30% of all the indirect taxes as well as the direct ones.

    But hey, nitpick. Its better than trying to counter my argument, right?
    Your argument appears to be we should bias educational achievement to the benefit of the rich in case they stop paying taxes here…? I don’t think that’s going to be an electorally popular position.

    The reason the top 10% pay that much of the total tax base is because of wealth inequality. If we had an economy that more fairly distributed wealth, this would be less of an issue. I support moves to decrease inequality.
    No my argument is that candidates should be selected for university places based merit and not discriminated against because they have wealthy parents. Almost everybody is on board with that, I would have thought.

    I get it that you don't like middle class people, but the fact is they pay the bills. They always have, they always will. So snort it up.
    "merit" - lol.

    This exchange for me nails the essence of the populist right politics you support. The one and only time it sides with 'ordinary people' is when it panders to and seeks to infame and electorally benefit from the bigotry that some of them are sometimes prone to.

    It's poison. Sorry but it really is.

    I don't think that the slogan 'don't vote for populists who are exploiting your stupidity and racism!' is an election winner somehow.

    I could be wrong.

  • Betfair next prime minister
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    13.5 Rishi Sunak 7%

    A big move off this poll.

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.05 Liz Truss 95%
    19.5 Rishi Sunak 5%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.04 Liz Truss 96%
    20 Rishi Sunak 5%
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.04 Liz Truss 96%
    21 Rishi Sunak 5%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.05 Liz Truss 95%
    20 Rishi Sunak 5%
    20 in a two-horse race is remarkable.

    This is over.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,556
    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I guess one thing the Gov't could do is say raise the cap to 2500, pray that wholesale gas and leccy falls long term then just keep the cap there to pay back the operators long after we have the cheaper leccy ?
    Stabilisation mechanism

    Would need to be more than just a cap though. Otherwise you get new entrants without the accumulated debt entering, when wholesale prices fall, outcompeting the existing companies, who go bust.

    Hmm, not entirely unappealing :smile: But without a minimum price guarantee (price 'shoe'?) the banks that would keep the energy companies afloat with a £2.5k cap in the short term but a promise of bein able to efffectively overcharge later would surely not extend credit. And further bankruptcies among the actually more competent suppliers might cause more problems... Would need nationalisation.
    Priti?
    Just my roots, innit? You can take the boy out of Essex, but you can't take the Essex out of the boy.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,576

    algarkirk said:

    MISTY said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Shitty Britain.

    FFS - yesterday was as a result of the heavy storms causing overflows, as has happened for a very long time. It doesn't help make arguments to be so disingenuous.
    Why allow facts to get in the way of a good rant though?
    Not only heavy storms but heavy storms landing on bone dry and rock hard surfaces with very rapid run off as a result. Totally unsurprising and, as usual, Brexit is completely and utterly irrelevant to what happened.
    You don't understand.

    Brexit is to blame for current weather conditions, Covid, and the war in Ukraine.
    You don't understand.

    The EU was blamed for everything sub optimal and now the wheel has turned. It's your tiger, ride it.
    I was mildly harangued by a Remoaner friend over wine at the Edinburgh Castle in Camden yesterday. “Well, what about Brexit? It’s terrible isn’t it??”

    I told him I voted because sovereignty and democracy. And he sat there fuming because: there isn’t any comeback to that. If you voted for those reasons - which I did - then you’re happy with Brexit - which I am (and increasingly so)

    So it’s really not hard to defend, indeed I find it a pleasure to do this with Remainers. They simmer with frustrated anger. Twats

    I advise you to use this technique if Scotland ever goes Indy in your lifetime and you need to defend the horrendous economic damage
    The thing about Brexit is it means no hiding place.

    Our Parliament is sovereign and our politicians are accountable. IF we're bankrupt that's your fault. If the boats are still coming that's your fault. If there's a giant f8ck up....ditto. If crime soars.....you get the idea.

    You can see that this accountability is a massive shock to many MPs, whichever side of the divide you are on politically. Confronted with their own horrendous mistakes in interviews they are often reduced to gabbling, spluttering nonsense or silence. Whatever they came into politics for, it clearly wasn't this.

    Good.
    And yet, governments so far have sought to reduce accountability to Parliament.

    Boris didn’t see Brexit as a democratic project.

    Only parliament can reduce accountability to itself. Governments have no such power. Neither have the courts. Parliament is the supreme authority. How it uses it is for voters to judge. Perhaps both voters and parliament are sleeping giants, but giants they still are.

    This is the democratic equivalent of the idea that the free market works perfectly and is never out of equilibrium.
    No it isn't. I make no suggestion that it works perfectly.

  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Alistair said:

    MISTY said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MISTY said:
    Hold on isn't Ohio supposed to be reasonably safe in the GOP column these days ?
    It was for Trump.
    It is in most places.

    On here, Ron DeSantis isn't safe.
    DeSantis won his last election by 0.4%. It's not exactly a mortal lock (Disclaimer: I would be betting on De Santis winning if I was betting)
    Yes I realise that.

    Its just that a lot of people got very excited about Biden's chances in certain states in 2020 based on whacky summer polling and I just wanted to provide some context.

    Hardly a hanging offence.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MISTY said:
    Hold on isn't Ohio supposed to be reasonably safe in the GOP column these days ?
    It was for Trump.
    Vance is one of the tranche of uniquely bad candidates the GOP Primary voters/Peter Thiel have picked.

    There are so many of them that "uniquely" starts to get over used.
    Vance is not "uniquely bad" candidate. He may well be POTUS one day. Cracking backstory growing up dirt poor, marines, law school, bestselling biography etc etc.

    It is extremely disappointing to see him debase himself before the Trump cult in order to win and one can only hope he doesn't really mean a word of it.
    His book Hillbilly Elegy is thoughtful and wise. Not very Trumpian
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,576

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    13.5 Rishi Sunak 7%

    A big move off this poll.

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.05 Liz Truss 95%
    19.5 Rishi Sunak 5%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.04 Liz Truss 96%
    20 Rishi Sunak 5%
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.04 Liz Truss 96%
    21 Rishi Sunak 5%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.05 Liz Truss 95%
    20 Rishi Sunak 5%
    20 in a two-horse race is remarkable.

    This is over.
    IIRC Obama was at similar odds before his election. On that occasion I made a modest return by betting on a banker. I am not going to this time, even though it's a racing cert. Something in me has a scintilla of doubt.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,042
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Plus - is *that* really what the likes of @Leon have really been blathering on about as though the rumour and video was of BoJo snorting coke off the bare bottom of Vladimir Putin?

    JFC.

    No, this here vid is not THE FINLAND RUMOUR come to life. I can tell you that
    Finland rumour, Santa, aliens, god, the Tooth Fairy...it is all getting a bit much to believe tbh.

    UNLESS YOU TELL US WHAT YOU THINK THE FINLAND RUMOUR IS.

    That is.
    Ahahahaha


    You'll just have to suffer the eternal torment of knowing that I KNOW THE FINLAND RUMOUR and I'm not telling you

    Sorry

    BTW I probably would tell you THE FINLAND RUMOUR but the person who told me expressly instructed me to stay shtoom, and there it is. He was adamant. ADAMANT
    Adam Ant told you?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's the point of paying for a thumb on the scales if you don't get a thumb on the scales?


    Well, some of us pointed out at the time that using estimated grades was a cheat's charter.

    But curious that sixth-form colleges tended to not fiddle. Perhaps the teachers at those don't have quite the same pressures on them, but not sure.

    Grammars being best of the rest is presumably because they tend to get a lot of As anyway, so less scope to cheat.
    If affluent middle class people can't get their children into top academic institutions they will create their own top academic institutions or send their kids to other countries' top academic institutions.

    They will also start to question paying their taxes into to a system that does not work for them, as many are starting to do with the NHS.

    Hint: 30% of the taxes come from the top 1%.
    Hint: People who suggest 30% of the taxes come from the top 1% are either economically illiterate or deliberately misleading (the combination is possible as well of course).
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/ for MISTY.
    OK I left out the word income. In that article it suggests that the top 10% per cent probably pay not far short of 30% of all the indirect taxes as well as the direct ones.

    But hey, nitpick. Its better than trying to counter my argument, right?
    Your argument appears to be we should bias educational achievement to the benefit of the rich in case they stop paying taxes here…? I don’t think that’s going to be an electorally popular position.

    The reason the top 10% pay that much of the total tax base is because of wealth inequality. If we had an economy that more fairly distributed wealth, this would be less of an issue. I support moves to decrease inequality.
    No my argument is that candidates should be selected for university places based merit and not discriminated against because they have wealthy parents. Almost everybody is on board with that, I would have thought.

    I get it that you don't like middle class people, but the fact is they pay the bills. They always have, they always will. So snort it up.
    "merit" - lol.

    This exchange for me nails the essence of the populist right politics you support. The one and only time it sides with 'ordinary people' is when it panders to and seeks to infame and electorally benefit from the bigotry that some of them are sometimes prone to.

    It's poison. Sorry but it really is.

    I don't think that the slogan 'don't vote for populists who are exploiting your stupidity and racism!' is an election winner somehow.

    I could be wrong.

    No, but the fact that you say that it is not an election winner rather than it is not true, tells us something
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,556

    MrEd said:

    Top quality trolling by The Donald

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/17/trump-endorses-dan-goldman-and-carolyn-maloney/

    Unexpectedly, some top quality Democrat whining about how Trump is trying to influence the primaries.

    Biden 81 million
    Trump 74 million

    :innocent:
    Age in years?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,862
    Selebian said:

    MrEd said:

    Top quality trolling by The Donald

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/17/trump-endorses-dan-goldman-and-carolyn-maloney/

    Unexpectedly, some top quality Democrat whining about how Trump is trying to influence the primaries.

    Biden 81 million
    Trump 74 million

    :innocent:
    Age in years?
    And they don't look a day under 750 million.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,576

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    In fact, we are cued up for another notable period of good weather, at least in SE England. London is going to be 23C-27C for the next two weeks, with plenty of sunshine and very little rain - only those showers on Monday

    That is perfect English summer weather: not too hot but nice and warm, some cloud for variety

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Indeed the only fly in the ointment is the near total lack of rain. The drought continueth
    Oh, don't you start - those of us who don't want to live in a permanent heatwave already get trolled by weather forecasters, who routinely assume sun=joy and more sun=more joy. Roll on total WFH so I can move to Scotland. Temperaturism will be illegal under my New Woke Republic.

    Cumbria is also excellent for all these purposes; + winter only lasts 10 months instead of 11, there is a tiny bit more daylight in winter, and the chance of leaving the UK is approx zero. Grass is uniformly green and it is raining.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,645

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Plus - is *that* really what the likes of @Leon have really been blathering on about as though the rumour and video was of BoJo snorting coke off the bare bottom of Vladimir Putin?

    JFC.

    No, this here vid is not THE FINLAND RUMOUR come to life. I can tell you that
    Finland rumour, Santa, aliens, god, the Tooth Fairy...it is all getting a bit much to believe tbh.

    UNLESS YOU TELL US WHAT YOU THINK THE FINLAND RUMOUR IS.

    That is.
    Ahahahaha


    You'll just have to suffer the eternal torment of knowing that I KNOW THE FINLAND RUMOUR and I'm not telling you

    Sorry

    BTW I probably would tell you THE FINLAND RUMOUR but the person who told me expressly instructed me to stay shtoom, and there it is. He was adamant. ADAMANT
    Adam Ant told you?
    To the tune of "Prince Charming":

    Rishi Sunak
    Rishi Sunak
    Rishi Sunak
    Rishi, Rishi Sunak
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,645
    Selebian said:

    MrEd said:

    Top quality trolling by The Donald

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/17/trump-endorses-dan-goldman-and-carolyn-maloney/

    Unexpectedly, some top quality Democrat whining about how Trump is trying to influence the primaries.

    Biden 81 million
    Trump 74 million

    :innocent:
    Age in years?
    Votes, dear. 2020.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,862

    Selebian said:

    MrEd said:

    Top quality trolling by The Donald

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/17/trump-endorses-dan-goldman-and-carolyn-maloney/

    Unexpectedly, some top quality Democrat whining about how Trump is trying to influence the primaries.

    Biden 81 million
    Trump 74 million

    :innocent:
    Age in years?
    Votes, dear. 2020.
    So Donald Trump became the first man in recorded history to pretend to be 8 million votes older than he really was?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,240
    edited August 18
    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's the point of paying for a thumb on the scales if you don't get a thumb on the scales?


    Well, some of us pointed out at the time that using estimated grades was a cheat's charter.

    But curious that sixth-form colleges tended to not fiddle. Perhaps the teachers at those don't have quite the same pressures on them, but not sure.

    Grammars being best of the rest is presumably because they tend to get a lot of As anyway, so less scope to cheat.
    If affluent middle class people can't get their children into top academic institutions they will create their own top academic institutions or send their kids to other countries' top academic institutions.

    They will also start to question paying their taxes into to a system that does not work for them, as many are starting to do with the NHS.

    Hint: 30% of the taxes come from the top 1%.
    Hint: People who suggest 30% of the taxes come from the top 1% are either economically illiterate or deliberately misleading (the combination is possible as well of course).
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/ for MISTY.
    OK I left out the word income. In that article it suggests that the top 10% per cent probably pay not far short of 30% of all the indirect taxes as well as the direct ones.

    But hey, nitpick. Its better than trying to counter my argument, right?
    Your argument appears to be we should bias educational achievement to the benefit of the rich in case they stop paying taxes here…? I don’t think that’s going to be an electorally popular position.

    The reason the top 10% pay that much of the total tax base is because of wealth inequality. If we had an economy that more fairly distributed wealth, this would be less of an issue. I support moves to decrease inequality.
    No my argument is that candidates should be selected for university places based merit and not discriminated against because they have wealthy parents. Almost everybody is on board with that, I would have thought.

    I get it that you don't like middle class people, but the fact is they pay the bills. They always have, they always will. So snort it up.
    "merit" - lol.

    This exchange for me nails the essence of the populist right politics you support. The one and only time it sides with 'ordinary people' is when it panders to and seeks to infame and electorally benefit from the bigotry that some of them are sometimes prone to.

    It's poison. Sorry but it really is.
    I don't think that the slogan 'don't vote for populists who are exploiting your stupidity and racism!' is an election winner somehow.

    I could be wrong.
    Lack of disagreement on the substance duly noted.

    Question is, WHY do you like this type of politics? - this I am genuinely curious about.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MISTY said:
    Hold on isn't Ohio supposed to be reasonably safe in the GOP column these days ?
    It was for Trump.
    Vance is one of the tranche of uniquely bad candidates the GOP Primary voters/Peter Thiel have picked.

    There are so many of them that "uniquely" starts to get over used.
    Vance is not "uniquely bad" candidate. He may well be POTUS one day. Cracking backstory growing up dirt poor, marines, law school, bestselling biography etc etc.

    It is extremely disappointing to see him debase himself before the Trump cult in order to win and one can only hope he doesn't really mean a word of it.
    His book Hillbilly Elegy is thoughtful and wise. Not very Trumpian
    He called Trump "America's Hitler" at one point.

    Since then he has completely debased himself in front of Trump and Thiel in exchange for power.

    A level of moral flexibility that doesn't poll well with Independents.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,297

    MrEd said:

    Top quality trolling by The Donald

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/17/trump-endorses-dan-goldman-and-carolyn-maloney/

    Unexpectedly, some top quality Democrat whining about how Trump is trying to influence the primaries.

    Biden 81 million
    Trump 74 million

    :innocent:
    Top qual troll, Sunil. :smile:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,240

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    London is predicted 24C with showers. By trad August Bank Holiday standards that's a heatwave. We have very quickly got used to Mediterranean weather
    I'm looking at the cold Arctic air plunge, which I guess doesn't reach London in the forecast you're looking at.
    Yes, I am being London-centric. I just checked the Glasgow forecast

    Oh

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Two weeks of 17-19C, plenty of rain, almost no sun at all. Most days entirely overcast

    I genuinely do not understand how Scots endure it
    Yes. The BBC forecasts are based on the GFS model and there's a very large difference between the GFS and ECMWF models by day 10 of the forecast.
    The Met Office long-range forecast has this to say about the period.

    "A northwest/southeast temperature split may also develop, whereby cooler polar air will characterise the north, with the south experiencing warmer air from the continent."

    But, well, you have looked at the BBC site specific forecasts so I'm sure you are the expert.
    Why are you @LostPassword being so snide about the weather insights of... < checks screen > @LostPassword?
    It's the curse of those of us capable of self-reflection that it so often strays into excessive self-criticism.
    Yep, you need to watch that. Bloviators have enough of an advantage already in the arena of internet tumble.

    How's that lingering Covid now btw?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,371
    edited August 18

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    13.5 Rishi Sunak 7%

    A big move off this poll.

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.05 Liz Truss 95%
    19.5 Rishi Sunak 5%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.04 Liz Truss 96%
    20 Rishi Sunak 5%
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.04 Liz Truss 96%
    21 Rishi Sunak 5%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.05 Liz Truss 95%
    20 Rishi Sunak 5%
    20 in a two-horse race is remarkable.

    This is over.
    The market is telling us Liz Truss is home and hosed. She probably is. We have not seen a 20/1 upset in a political 2-horse race since last year's Chesham and Amersham by-election when a number of us followed OGH in on the LibDems.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,240
    So, should a hypothetical person with a Big Short on Trump (for both Nom and Prez) be wanting DeSantis to win or lose his governorship this Nov?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,753
    edited August 18

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    I think it was a smart move by Biden to lower petrol prices a lot. But has he lowered them too far?

    https://twitter.com/conorsen/status/1560245698947387392

    The decoupling of the direction of the US and European economies seems rather pronounced.

    Inadvertently or not, Biden seems to have played economic rope-a-dope with the Republican opposition. If US inflation has already peaked, and there's decent growth this quarter, November's elections could be very interesting.
    Tends to happen when there's war in europe !
    Though the direction of the US and European economies seem to have been decoupled ever since about 1993, not just in recent months.
    But only because of demographics.

    Per capita growth was remarkably similar between 1990 and 2010 (about 2% in the 1990s and less than 1% in the 2000s), and only fractionally faster in the US between 2010 and 2018 (1.3% vs 1.1%). It's the US workforce that has continued to grow.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MISTY said:
    Hold on isn't Ohio supposed to be reasonably safe in the GOP column these days ?
    It was for Trump.
    Vance is one of the tranche of uniquely bad candidates the GOP Primary voters/Peter Thiel have picked.

    There are so many of them that "uniquely" starts to get over used.
    Vance is not "uniquely bad" candidate. He may well be POTUS one day. Cracking backstory growing up dirt poor, marines, law school, bestselling biography etc etc.

    It is extremely disappointing to see him debase himself before the Trump cult in order to win and one can only hope he doesn't really mean a word of it.
    His book Hillbilly Elegy is thoughtful and wise. Not very Trumpian
    He called Trump "America's Hitler" at one point.

    Since then he has completely debased himself in front of Trump and Thiel in exchange for power.

    A level of moral flexibility that doesn't poll well with Independents.
    Sadly, he will turn out to be right about Trump should the americans be stupid enough to re-elect him in 2024.

    But I agree on the moral flexibility. Quite incredible really. It shows how far the Cult has poisoned GOP though.

    Trump winning sends shivers down my spine whenever I think about it.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    kinabalu said:

    So, should a hypothetical person with a Big Short on Trump (for both Nom and Prez) be wanting DeSantis to win or lose his governorship this Nov?

    Win. He needs the aura of a winner to take on the Loser Trump.

    If he loses the Gubanatorial election he is toast.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,297
    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MISTY said:
    Hold on isn't Ohio supposed to be reasonably safe in the GOP column these days ?
    It was for Trump.
    Vance is one of the tranche of uniquely bad candidates the GOP Primary voters/Peter Thiel have picked.

    There are so many of them that "uniquely" starts to get over used.
    Vance is not "uniquely bad" candidate. He may well be POTUS one day. Cracking backstory growing up dirt poor, marines, law school, bestselling biography etc etc.

    It is extremely disappointing to see him debase himself before the Trump cult in order to win and one can only hope he doesn't really mean a word of it.
    His book Hillbilly Elegy is thoughtful and wise. Not very Trumpian
    He appears to have disillusioned @rottenborough , the Atlantic and the Telegraph ...

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/moral-collapse-jd-vance/619428/

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/slippery-rise-jd-vance-hillbilly-couldnt-cancel/

    Just another politician.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,542
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    London is predicted 24C with showers. By trad August Bank Holiday standards that's a heatwave. We have very quickly got used to Mediterranean weather
    I'm looking at the cold Arctic air plunge, which I guess doesn't reach London in the forecast you're looking at.
    Yes, I am being London-centric. I just checked the Glasgow forecast

    Oh

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Two weeks of 17-19C, plenty of rain, almost no sun at all. Most days entirely overcast

    I genuinely do not understand how Scots endure it
    Yes. The BBC forecasts are based on the GFS model and there's a very large difference between the GFS and ECMWF models by day 10 of the forecast.
    The Met Office long-range forecast has this to say about the period.

    "A northwest/southeast temperature split may also develop, whereby cooler polar air will characterise the north, with the south experiencing warmer air from the continent."

    But, well, you have looked at the BBC site specific forecasts so I'm sure you are the expert.
    Why are you @LostPassword being so snide about the weather insights of... < checks screen > @LostPassword?
    It's the curse of those of us capable of self-reflection that it so often strays into excessive self-criticism.
    Yep, you need to watch that. Bloviators have enough of an advantage already in the arena of internet tumble.

    How's that lingering Covid now btw?
    Definite signs of improvement over last fortnight. Kitchen is clean at last. Started reading a book again. Frequency of dizzy spells much reduced.

    Still more fatigued than previously, but I'm less concerned now than I was because of the recent improvement.a
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,326
    French year-ahead electricity up to 700 EUR per MWh - 14 times the historical level.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's the point of paying for a thumb on the scales if you don't get a thumb on the scales?


    Well, some of us pointed out at the time that using estimated grades was a cheat's charter.

    But curious that sixth-form colleges tended to not fiddle. Perhaps the teachers at those don't have quite the same pressures on them, but not sure.

    Grammars being best of the rest is presumably because they tend to get a lot of As anyway, so less scope to cheat.
    If affluent middle class people can't get their children into top academic institutions they will create their own top academic institutions or send their kids to other countries' top academic institutions.

    They will also start to question paying their taxes into to a system that does not work for them, as many are starting to do with the NHS.

    Hint: 30% of the taxes come from the top 1%.
    Hint: People who suggest 30% of the taxes come from the top 1% are either economically illiterate or deliberately misleading (the combination is possible as well of course).
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/ for MISTY.
    OK I left out the word income. In that article it suggests that the top 10% per cent probably pay not far short of 30% of all the indirect taxes as well as the direct ones.

    But hey, nitpick. Its better than trying to counter my argument, right?
    Your argument appears to be we should bias educational achievement to the benefit of the rich in case they stop paying taxes here…? I don’t think that’s going to be an electorally popular position.

    The reason the top 10% pay that much of the total tax base is because of wealth inequality. If we had an economy that more fairly distributed wealth, this would be less of an issue. I support moves to decrease inequality.
    No my argument is that candidates should be selected for university places based merit and not discriminated against because they have wealthy parents. Almost everybody is on board with that, I would have thought.

    I get it that you don't like middle class people, but the fact is they pay the bills. They always have, they always will. So snort it up.
    "merit" - lol.

    This exchange for me nails the essence of the populist right politics you support. The one and only time it sides with 'ordinary people' is when it panders to and seeks to infame and electorally benefit from the bigotry that some of them are sometimes prone to.

    It's poison. Sorry but it really is.
    I don't think that the slogan 'don't vote for populists who are exploiting your stupidity and racism!' is an election winner somehow.

    I could be wrong.
    Lack of disagreement on the substance duly noted.

    Question is, WHY do you like this type of politics? - this I am genuinely curious about.
    Who was most against lockdown as it wore on? who was most against restrictions?

    'Populists' like JHB, Darren Grimes, Richard Tice, Laurence Fox, Claire Fox and Steve Baker. Talk Radio was a lone voice in the wilderness at least questioning what was going on, whereas the rest of media simply asked why restrictions weren't tougher.

    Who was most in favour of lockdown? Who thought that it should have gone on longer than it did, be more severe than it was, and that coming out of it was 'reckless'

    Sir Keir Starmer.

    Quite apart from the economic effects (which as we see are horrendous), evidence of the collateral damage of lockdown grows greater every day. Nobody with half a brain is ever contemplating it again.

    I hope that answers your question.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Bank Holiday Monday could be surprisingly cold.

    London is predicted 24C with showers. By trad August Bank Holiday standards that's a heatwave. We have very quickly got used to Mediterranean weather
    I'm looking at the cold Arctic air plunge, which I guess doesn't reach London in the forecast you're looking at.
    Yes, I am being London-centric. I just checked the Glasgow forecast

    Oh

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    Two weeks of 17-19C, plenty of rain, almost no sun at all. Most days entirely overcast

    I genuinely do not understand how Scots endure it
    Yes. The BBC forecasts are based on the GFS model and there's a very large difference between the GFS and ECMWF models by day 10 of the forecast.
    The Met Office long-range forecast has this to say about the period.

    "A northwest/southeast temperature split may also develop, whereby cooler polar air will characterise the north, with the south experiencing warmer air from the continent."

    But, well, you have looked at the BBC site specific forecasts so I'm sure you are the expert.
    Why are you @LostPassword being so snide about the weather insights of... < checks screen > @LostPassword?
    It's the curse of those of us capable of self-reflection that it so often strays into excessive self-criticism.
    Yep, you need to watch that. Bloviators have enough of an advantage already in the arena of internet tumble.

    How's that lingering Covid now btw?
    Definite signs of improvement over last fortnight. Kitchen is clean at last. Started reading a book again. Frequency of dizzy spells much reduced.

    Still more fatigued than previously, but I'm less concerned now than I was because of the recent improvement.a
    Didn't know you had the dreaded Long Lurgy

    Get better soon
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,542
    Uh-oh...

    Josh Lederman
    @JoshNBCNews
    NEWS: A Ukrainian military intelligence official tells
    @NBCNews
    that Russia has told its nuclear workers stationed at Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant NOT to go to work tomorrow


    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1560278407954321416
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,811

    Uh-oh...

    Josh Lederman
    @JoshNBCNews
    NEWS: A Ukrainian military intelligence official tells
    @NBCNews
    that Russia has told its nuclear workers stationed at Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant NOT to go to work tomorrow


    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1560278407954321416

    I hope HBO have bought the rights to the upcoming "Zaporizhzhia" Mini TV Series
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,240
    Alistair said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, should a hypothetical person with a Big Short on Trump (for both Nom and Prez) be wanting DeSantis to win or lose his governorship this Nov?

    Win. He needs the aura of a winner to take on the Loser Trump.

    If he loses the Gubanatorial election he is toast.
    Yep that's my immediate thought.

    But he is a Trump/maga operator, isn't he - so what I'm wondering is what if he loses and that's a sign that Trump/maga is waning?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882
    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's the point of paying for a thumb on the scales if you don't get a thumb on the scales?


    Well, some of us pointed out at the time that using estimated grades was a cheat's charter.

    But curious that sixth-form colleges tended to not fiddle. Perhaps the teachers at those don't have quite the same pressures on them, but not sure.

    Grammars being best of the rest is presumably because they tend to get a lot of As anyway, so less scope to cheat.
    If affluent middle class people can't get their children into top academic institutions they will create their own top academic institutions or send their kids to other countries' top academic institutions.

    They will also start to question paying their taxes into to a system that does not work for them, as many are starting to do with the NHS.

    Hint: 30% of the taxes come from the top 1%.
    Hint: People who suggest 30% of the taxes come from the top 1% are either economically illiterate or deliberately misleading (the combination is possible as well of course).
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/ for MISTY.
    OK I left out the word income. In that article it suggests that the top 10% per cent probably pay not far short of 30% of all the indirect taxes as well as the direct ones.

    But hey, nitpick. Its better than trying to counter my argument, right?
    Your argument appears to be we should bias educational achievement to the benefit of the rich in case they stop paying taxes here…? I don’t think that’s going to be an electorally popular position.

    The reason the top 10% pay that much of the total tax base is because of wealth inequality. If we had an economy that more fairly distributed wealth, this would be less of an issue. I support moves to decrease inequality.
    No my argument is that candidates should be selected for university places based merit and not discriminated against because they have wealthy parents. Almost everybody is on board with that, I would have thought.

    I get it that you don't like middle class people, but the fact is they pay the bills. They always have, they always will. So snort it up.
    "merit" - lol.

    This exchange for me nails the essence of the populist right politics you support. The one and only time it sides with 'ordinary people' is when it panders to and seeks to infame and electorally benefit from the bigotry that some of them are sometimes prone to.

    It's poison. Sorry but it really is.
    I don't think that the slogan 'don't vote for populists who are exploiting your stupidity and racism!' is an election winner somehow.

    I could be wrong.
    Lack of disagreement on the substance duly noted.

    Question is, WHY do you like this type of politics? - this I am genuinely curious about.
    Who was most against lockdown as it wore on? who was most against restrictions?

    'Populists' like JHB, Darren Grimes, Richard Tice, Laurence Fox, Claire Fox and Steve Baker. Talk Radio was a lone voice in the wilderness at least questioning what was going on, whereas the rest of media simply asked why restrictions weren't tougher.

    Who was most in favour of lockdown? Who thought that it should have gone on longer than it did, be more severe than it was, and that coming out of it was 'reckless'

    Sir Keir Starmer.

    Quite apart from the economic effects (which as we see are horrendous), evidence of the collateral damage of lockdown grows greater every day. Nobody with half a brain is ever contemplating it again.

    I hope that answers your question.
    You make very good points

    This is just one reason we need populist rightwingers. The lefty liberal consensus is not just deadening, it can be actually deadly
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882

    Uh-oh...

    Josh Lederman
    @JoshNBCNews
    NEWS: A Ukrainian military intelligence official tells
    @NBCNews
    that Russia has told its nuclear workers stationed at Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant NOT to go to work tomorrow


    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1560278407954321416

    On a scale of 1 to 10 of bad news, where 1 is good news, and 10 is bad news, that's about 17, isn't it?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,542
    Leon said:

    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's the point of paying for a thumb on the scales if you don't get a thumb on the scales?


    Well, some of us pointed out at the time that using estimated grades was a cheat's charter.

    But curious that sixth-form colleges tended to not fiddle. Perhaps the teachers at those don't have quite the same pressures on them, but not sure.

    Grammars being best of the rest is presumably because they tend to get a lot of As anyway, so less scope to cheat.
    If affluent middle class people can't get their children into top academic institutions they will create their own top academic institutions or send their kids to other countries' top academic institutions.

    They will also start to question paying their taxes into to a system that does not work for them, as many are starting to do with the NHS.

    Hint: 30% of the taxes come from the top 1%.
    Hint: People who suggest 30% of the taxes come from the top 1% are either economically illiterate or deliberately misleading (the combination is possible as well of course).
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/ for MISTY.
    OK I left out the word income. In that article it suggests that the top 10% per cent probably pay not far short of 30% of all the indirect taxes as well as the direct ones.

    But hey, nitpick. Its better than trying to counter my argument, right?
    Your argument appears to be we should bias educational achievement to the benefit of the rich in case they stop paying taxes here…? I don’t think that’s going to be an electorally popular position.

    The reason the top 10% pay that much of the total tax base is because of wealth inequality. If we had an economy that more fairly distributed wealth, this would be less of an issue. I support moves to decrease inequality.
    No my argument is that candidates should be selected for university places based merit and not discriminated against because they have wealthy parents. Almost everybody is on board with that, I would have thought.

    I get it that you don't like middle class people, but the fact is they pay the bills. They always have, they always will. So snort it up.
    "merit" - lol.

    This exchange for me nails the essence of the populist right politics you support. The one and only time it sides with 'ordinary people' is when it panders to and seeks to infame and electorally benefit from the bigotry that some of them are sometimes prone to.

    It's poison. Sorry but it really is.
    I don't think that the slogan 'don't vote for populists who are exploiting your stupidity and racism!' is an election winner somehow.

    I could be wrong.
    Lack of disagreement on the substance duly noted.

    Question is, WHY do you like this type of politics? - this I am genuinely curious about.
    Who was most against lockdown as it wore on? who was most against restrictions?

    'Populists' like JHB, Darren Grimes, Richard Tice, Laurence Fox, Claire Fox and Steve Baker. Talk Radio was a lone voice in the wilderness at least questioning what was going on, whereas the rest of media simply asked why restrictions weren't tougher.

    Who was most in favour of lockdown? Who thought that it should have gone on longer than it did, be more severe than it was, and that coming out of it was 'reckless'

    Sir Keir Starmer.

    Quite apart from the economic effects (which as we see are horrendous), evidence of the collateral damage of lockdown grows greater every day. Nobody with half a brain is ever contemplating it again.

    I hope that answers your question.
    You make very good points

    This is just one reason we need populist rightwingers. The lefty liberal consensus is not just deadening, it can be actually deadly
    I dunno, some principled left-wingers would be handy. I find it hard to imagine Tony Benn calling for a stricter lockdown.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,641
    edited August 18
    Leon said:

    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's the point of paying for a thumb on the scales if you don't get a thumb on the scales?


    Well, some of us pointed out at the time that using estimated grades was a cheat's charter.

    But curious that sixth-form colleges tended to not fiddle. Perhaps the teachers at those don't have quite the same pressures on them, but not sure.

    Grammars being best of the rest is presumably because they tend to get a lot of As anyway, so less scope to cheat.
    If affluent middle class people can't get their children into top academic institutions they will create their own top academic institutions or send their kids to other countries' top academic institutions.

    They will also start to question paying their taxes into to a system that does not work for them, as many are starting to do with the NHS.

    Hint: 30% of the taxes come from the top 1%.
    Hint: People who suggest 30% of the taxes come from the top 1% are either economically illiterate or deliberately misleading (the combination is possible as well of course).
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/ for MISTY.
    OK I left out the word income. In that article it suggests that the top 10% per cent probably pay not far short of 30% of all the indirect taxes as well as the direct ones.

    But hey, nitpick. Its better than trying to counter my argument, right?
    Your argument appears to be we should bias educational achievement to the benefit of the rich in case they stop paying taxes here…? I don’t think that’s going to be an electorally popular position.

    The reason the top 10% pay that much of the total tax base is because of wealth inequality. If we had an economy that more fairly distributed wealth, this would be less of an issue. I support moves to decrease inequality.
    No my argument is that candidates should be selected for university places based merit and not discriminated against because they have wealthy parents. Almost everybody is on board with that, I would have thought.

    I get it that you don't like middle class people, but the fact is they pay the bills. They always have, they always will. So snort it up.
    "merit" - lol.

    This exchange for me nails the essence of the populist right politics you support. The one and only time it sides with 'ordinary people' is when it panders to and seeks to infame and electorally benefit from the bigotry that some of them are sometimes prone to.

    It's poison. Sorry but it really is.
    I don't think that the slogan 'don't vote for populists who are exploiting your stupidity and racism!' is an election winner somehow.

    I could be wrong.
    Lack of disagreement on the substance duly noted.

    Question is, WHY do you like this type of politics? - this I am genuinely curious about.
    Who was most against lockdown as it wore on? who was most against restrictions?

    'Populists' like JHB, Darren Grimes, Richard Tice, Laurence Fox, Claire Fox and Steve Baker. Talk Radio was a lone voice in the wilderness at least questioning what was going on, whereas the rest of media simply asked why restrictions weren't tougher.

    Who was most in favour of lockdown? Who thought that it should have gone on longer than it did, be more severe than it was, and that coming out of it was 'reckless'

    Sir Keir Starmer.

    Quite apart from the economic effects (which as we see are horrendous), evidence of the collateral damage of lockdown grows greater every day. Nobody with half a brain is ever contemplating it again.

    I hope that answers your question.
    You make very good points

    This is just one reason we need populist rightwingers. The lefty liberal consensus is not just deadening, it can be actually deadly
    The problem is that Tice, Grimes, etc are so repellant as individuals that they actively push more people away than they might attract.

    The Lib Dems were also against unending lockdowns, it’s just that nobody noticed.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,240
    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's the point of paying for a thumb on the scales if you don't get a thumb on the scales?


    Well, some of us pointed out at the time that using estimated grades was a cheat's charter.

    But curious that sixth-form colleges tended to not fiddle. Perhaps the teachers at those don't have quite the same pressures on them, but not sure.

    Grammars being best of the rest is presumably because they tend to get a lot of As anyway, so less scope to cheat.
    If affluent middle class people can't get their children into top academic institutions they will create their own top academic institutions or send their kids to other countries' top academic institutions.

    They will also start to question paying their taxes into to a system that does not work for them, as many are starting to do with the NHS.

    Hint: 30% of the taxes come from the top 1%.
    Hint: People who suggest 30% of the taxes come from the top 1% are either economically illiterate or deliberately misleading (the combination is possible as well of course).
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/ for MISTY.
    OK I left out the word income. In that article it suggests that the top 10% per cent probably pay not far short of 30% of all the indirect taxes as well as the direct ones.

    But hey, nitpick. Its better than trying to counter my argument, right?
    Your argument appears to be we should bias educational achievement to the benefit of the rich in case they stop paying taxes here…? I don’t think that’s going to be an electorally popular position.

    The reason the top 10% pay that much of the total tax base is because of wealth inequality. If we had an economy that more fairly distributed wealth, this would be less of an issue. I support moves to decrease inequality.
    No my argument is that candidates should be selected for university places based merit and not discriminated against because they have wealthy parents. Almost everybody is on board with that, I would have thought.

    I get it that you don't like middle class people, but the fact is they pay the bills. They always have, they always will. So snort it up.
    "merit" - lol.

    This exchange for me nails the essence of the populist right politics you support. The one and only time it sides with 'ordinary people' is when it panders to and seeks to infame and electorally benefit from the bigotry that some of them are sometimes prone to.

    It's poison. Sorry but it really is.
    I don't think that the slogan 'don't vote for populists who are exploiting your stupidity and racism!' is an election winner somehow.

    I could be wrong.
    Lack of disagreement on the substance duly noted.

    Question is, WHY do you like this type of politics? - this I am genuinely curious about.
    Who was most against lockdown as it wore on? who was most against restrictions?

    'Populists' like JHB, Darren Grimes, Richard Tice, Laurence Fox, Claire Fox and Steve Baker. Talk Radio was a lone voice in the wilderness at least questioning what was going on, whereas the rest of media simply asked why restrictions weren't tougher.

    Who was most in favour of lockdown? Who thought that it should have gone on longer than it did, be more severe than it was, and that coming out of it was 'reckless'

    Sir Keir Starmer.

    Quite apart from the economic effects (which as we see are horrendous), evidence of the collateral damage of lockdown grows greater every day. Nobody with half a brain is ever contemplating it again.

    I hope that answers your question.
    But you were like this - into people like Trump and our Lozza - before the pandemic.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's the point of paying for a thumb on the scales if you don't get a thumb on the scales?


    Well, some of us pointed out at the time that using estimated grades was a cheat's charter.

    But curious that sixth-form colleges tended to not fiddle. Perhaps the teachers at those don't have quite the same pressures on them, but not sure.

    Grammars being best of the rest is presumably because they tend to get a lot of As anyway, so less scope to cheat.
    If affluent middle class people can't get their children into top academic institutions they will create their own top academic institutions or send their kids to other countries' top academic institutions.

    They will also start to question paying their taxes into to a system that does not work for them, as many are starting to do with the NHS.

    Hint: 30% of the taxes come from the top 1%.
    Hint: People who suggest 30% of the taxes come from the top 1% are either economically illiterate or deliberately misleading (the combination is possible as well of course).
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/ for MISTY.
    OK I left out the word income. In that article it suggests that the top 10% per cent probably pay not far short of 30% of all the indirect taxes as well as the direct ones.

    But hey, nitpick. Its better than trying to counter my argument, right?
    Your argument appears to be we should bias educational achievement to the benefit of the rich in case they stop paying taxes here…? I don’t think that’s going to be an electorally popular position.

    The reason the top 10% pay that much of the total tax base is because of wealth inequality. If we had an economy that more fairly distributed wealth, this would be less of an issue. I support moves to decrease inequality.
    No my argument is that candidates should be selected for university places based merit and not discriminated against because they have wealthy parents. Almost everybody is on board with that, I would have thought.

    I get it that you don't like middle class people, but the fact is they pay the bills. They always have, they always will. So snort it up.
    "merit" - lol.

    This exchange for me nails the essence of the populist right politics you support. The one and only time it sides with 'ordinary people' is when it panders to and seeks to infame and electorally benefit from the bigotry that some of them are sometimes prone to.

    It's poison. Sorry but it really is.
    I don't think that the slogan 'don't vote for populists who are exploiting your stupidity and racism!' is an election winner somehow.

    I could be wrong.
    Lack of disagreement on the substance duly noted.

    Question is, WHY do you like this type of politics? - this I am genuinely curious about.
    Who was most against lockdown as it wore on? who was most against restrictions?

    'Populists' like JHB, Darren Grimes, Richard Tice, Laurence Fox, Claire Fox and Steve Baker. Talk Radio was a lone voice in the wilderness at least questioning what was going on, whereas the rest of media simply asked why restrictions weren't tougher.

    Who was most in favour of lockdown? Who thought that it should have gone on longer than it did, be more severe than it was, and that coming out of it was 'reckless'

    Sir Keir Starmer.

    Quite apart from the economic effects (which as we see are horrendous), evidence of the collateral damage of lockdown grows greater every day. Nobody with half a brain is ever contemplating it again.

    I hope that answers your question.
    It doesn't actually, it's completely irrelevant. Not familiar with all those people but what they have in common seems to be professional contrarianism rather than populism (and you forget that the people who were more in favour of lockdown were the government and sks were the vast majority of the actual people.

    Politics is the art of the possible and there was never any way on God's green earth that a UK government was going to buck the international trend on dealing with covid. It would have held its nerve for a week and then caved.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    edited August 18
    Leon said:

    Uh-oh...

    Josh Lederman
    @JoshNBCNews
    NEWS: A Ukrainian military intelligence official tells
    @NBCNews
    that Russia has told its nuclear workers stationed at Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant NOT to go to work tomorrow


    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1560278407954321416

    On a scale of 1 to 10 of bad news, where 1 is good news, and 10 is bad news, that's about 17, isn't it?
    It is certainly sub optimal. Winds set to turn easterly tomorrow too i believe.........
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,882

    Leon said:

    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    tlg86 said:

    What's the point of paying for a thumb on the scales if you don't get a thumb on the scales?


    Well, some of us pointed out at the time that using estimated grades was a cheat's charter.

    But curious that sixth-form colleges tended to not fiddle. Perhaps the teachers at those don't have quite the same pressures on them, but not sure.

    Grammars being best of the rest is presumably because they tend to get a lot of As anyway, so less scope to cheat.
    If affluent middle class people can't get their children into top academic institutions they will create their own top academic institutions or send their kids to other countries' top academic institutions.

    They will also start to question paying their taxes into to a system that does not work for them, as many are starting to do with the NHS.

    Hint: 30% of the taxes come from the top 1%.
    Hint: People who suggest 30% of the taxes come from the top 1% are either economically illiterate or deliberately misleading (the combination is possible as well of course).
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/ for MISTY.
    OK I left out the word income. In that article it suggests that the top 10% per cent probably pay not far short of 30% of all the indirect taxes as well as the direct ones.

    But hey, nitpick. Its better than trying to counter my argument, right?
    Your argument appears to be we should bias educational achievement to the benefit of the rich in case they stop paying taxes here…? I don’t think that’s going to be an electorally popular position.

    The reason the top 10% pay that much of the total tax base is because of wealth inequality. If we had an economy that more fairly distributed wealth, this would be less of an issue. I support moves to decrease inequality.
    No my argument is that candidates should be selected for university places based merit and not discriminated against because they have wealthy parents. Almost everybody is on board with that, I would have thought.

    I get it that you don't like middle class people, but the fact is they pay the bills. They always have, they always will. So snort it up.
    "merit" - lol.

    This exchange for me nails the essence of the populist right politics you support. The one and only time it sides with 'ordinary people' is when it panders to and seeks to infame and electorally benefit from the bigotry that some of them are sometimes prone to.

    It's poison. Sorry but it really is.
    I don't think that the slogan 'don't vote for populists who are exploiting your stupidity and racism!' is an election winner somehow.

    I could be wrong.
    Lack of disagreement on the substance duly noted.

    Question is, WHY do you like this type of politics? - this I am genuinely curious about.
    Who was most against lockdown as it wore on? who was most against restrictions?

    'Populists' like JHB, Darren Grimes, Richard Tice, Laurence Fox, Claire Fox and Steve Baker. Talk Radio was a lone voice in the wilderness at least questioning what was going on, whereas the rest of media simply asked why restrictions weren't tougher.

    Who was most in favour of lockdown? Who thought that it should have gone on longer than it did, be more severe than it was, and that coming out of it was 'reckless'

    Sir Keir Starmer.

    Quite apart from the economic effects (which as we see are horrendous), evidence of the collateral damage of lockdown grows greater every day. Nobody with half a brain is ever contemplating it again.

    I hope that answers your question.
    You make very good points

    This is just one reason we need populist rightwingers. The lefty liberal consensus is not just deadening, it can be actually deadly
    The problem is that Tice, Grimes, etc are so repellant as individuals that they actively push more people away than they might attract.

    The Lib Dems were also against unending lockdowns, it’s just that nobody noticed.
    I don't find Grimes remotely repellent. The fact you do says so much. You hate the opinions so you hate the person

    This really is a big flaw in the modern left. They don't just disagree, they loathe and dismiss and try to silence anyone who differs. And the loathing allows them to emotionally justify the cancellations
This discussion has been closed.