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Johnson’s government ending with just 13% saying it’s competent – politicalbetting.com

13

Comments

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I had a dbs back in days last summer. A few anecdotes do not data make.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,699
    Nigelb said:
    How do you know I'm not board of punning?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    The scale of it will overwhelm them all. Whatever 'solution' is applied i suspect its a finger in the dyke
    Everything is creaking
    A true sense of a state falling apart and failing to provide the basics. And yet some people still say "what is Starmer's solution" whilst indicating they will still vote Conservative.
    To win, Starmer needs to set out his stall and have some convincing policies as well as appealing sales patter. It is not enough to be solid, competent and honest though each of those is a step up from flaky, incompetent and mendacious.

    The state is indeed falling apart across the board, schools, universities, courts, social care, NHS, immigration and asylum, now with the added handicaps of Brexit and energy prices to business. Yet what is proposed is to sack 20% of the Civil Servants needed to get back on track.

    It is like the dying days of the Major regime, only with a much worse economy and debt situation.

    I hope that Starmer can follow his centre-ground leanings and propose "what works" solutions. Ideology is what got us into this mess, it won't get us out.

    But the Mansfield Syndrome still bites hard amongst some voters. It doesn't matter that they can see the basics falling apart around them as you describe. They were persuaded that it was all someone else's fault and only the Tories & Brexit could fix things. Despite things getting clearly worse not better, its a persuasive mental delusion that "it will be better tomorrow".

    That ToryTV focus group in Bury North was interesting. 9 Tory 2019 voters and 7 already likely to vote Labour. Of the two holdouts, the bloke my age displayed all signs of Mansfield Syndrome. So the challenge for Labour is to offer something at which at least explains why things are this bad and the first practical steps on the journey to fix them, and they could walk it.

    And in the upside down, the LibDems need to do the same to southern Tories who seem to be increasingly disillusioned with Leonite Tory rhetoric and increasingly stupid policies. A LibDem platform of similar policies to Labour but less threatening can do the Tories serious damage. And as Labour keep stealing LD policies that feels doable.
    One catch, maybe a Catch-22.

    On one hand it is really obvious what practical step would do most to put a bit more sparkle in the economy and give the government bandwidth to begin to manage all the other problems.

    On the other hand, mentioning that step is still guaranteed to drive Mansfield Man back into the arms of Momma Liz.
    How would that achieve this miraculous effect? The problems right now are energy (not due to Brexit) and recovering from Covid (not due to Brexit). We are able to offer visas to people who fit the bill and want to work here.

    What would reversing Brexit achieve? And how would it be achieved? Why would they have us back?
    Brexit but not being a dick about it all the time.

    There's an awful lot of friction that could be removed from the relationship by acknowledging that there's little harm and a lot of good in shadowing EU standards for things like food and chemicals. And that friction is costing a chunk of GDP that we could never really afford to toss away, and certainly can't now.

    But for some voters and politicians, that would be to betray Brexit, which is why it can't be done.
    I agree with you about standards - @RochdalePioneers (who voted for Brexit, I didn’t) has made a convincing case for alignment. We do need adults in the room, but I also don’t think either side helps.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,699
    Carnyx said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I'm just thinking back to when Rangers went bust thanks to HMRC, an executive agency of UKG, requiring that taxes be paid. I seem to recall that quite a few fans blamed the SNP (albeit amongst other things).
    Not really a plausible story. As if HMRC actually got somebody to pay tax.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    Is UK energy just irretrievably fucked ?

    Energy production in Scotland seems pretty good..

    Have had interesting conversations with my Spanish FIL these last few weeks out here. Spain isn't on the hook to Russia for energy - their gas comes from north Africa apparently. Spain supposedly told the EU where to stick its energy reduction targets and is unhappy with paying Ukraine-affected market prices for gas when its gas isn't affected.

    That feels very similar to energy generation in Scotland. TNUoS - Transmission Network Use of System charges from the National Grid make it 20% more expensive to generate renewable power in Scotland (where it is plentiful) vs England. Why? Because the PLC wants to recoup £dollah for use of its wires, and the power needs to be sent such a long way to reach that London.

    This is insane. We need more renewable energy, not less. Yet the privatised "let the market decide" industry is using 30 years out of date models to penalise the power generation we have.
    There is a solution. If England doesn't want clean Scottish energy, lets stop transmitting it. Then the distance sent is much less, the cost falls, and life gets cheaper in Scotland. See, I have just written my first practical reason why Scotland should become independent.

    Stockholm Syndrome: feelings of trust and affection towards your kidnapper
    Mansfield Syndrome: feelings of trust and affection towards the party who made your shitty town more shitty
    Buchan Syndrome: realising that however bonkers Sindy appears on the surface, there are genuine practical issues behind it that unionists have no answers to
    Post of the week, so far.

    The more you delve into the topic, the more practical issues you will find. Self-government is simply common sense, and independence is normal.
    Personally I would be happy for Scots and Scotland if they vote for independence and make a success of it. It will lance the boil. But do you never have pause to think of how Brexit has gone so far? Why will Scotland breaking up from rUK be better?
    Well Boris Johnson, Dave Davis, JRM, Frosty, IDS etc likely won’t be involved, so that’s a head start.
    Currency, national debt, pensions, army, to name just four.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,216
    Mr Dickson,

    I've always womdered why Scotland was keen on the the EU. I could understand why it would be if the EU was an economic group with no pretensions for becoming a pan-national grouping, but it makes clear it wants be a large political unit. A single country.

    This means you'd be on the hook for the gas policy of Frau Merkel. Close the nuclear power stations and rely on the largesse of Papa Putin. Not sure I'd classify that as independence.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,947
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I'm just thinking back to when Rangers went bust thanks to HMRC, an executive agency of UKG, requiring that taxes be paid. I seem to recall that quite a few fans blamed the SNP (albeit amongst other things).
    Not really a plausible story. As if HMRC actually got somebody to pay tax.
    Oh, it's true. The irony of what at least one ScoTory keeps calling Her Majesty's Eleven not paying their due to HMtQ was much remarked on at the time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,699

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    Is UK energy just irretrievably fucked ?

    Energy production in Scotland seems pretty good..

    Have had interesting conversations with my Spanish FIL these last few weeks out here. Spain isn't on the hook to Russia for energy - their gas comes from north Africa apparently. Spain supposedly told the EU where to stick its energy reduction targets and is unhappy with paying Ukraine-affected market prices for gas when its gas isn't affected.

    That feels very similar to energy generation in Scotland. TNUoS - Transmission Network Use of System charges from the National Grid make it 20% more expensive to generate renewable power in Scotland (where it is plentiful) vs England. Why? Because the PLC wants to recoup £dollah for use of its wires, and the power needs to be sent such a long way to reach that London.

    This is insane. We need more renewable energy, not less. Yet the privatised "let the market decide" industry is using 30 years out of date models to penalise the power generation we have.
    There is a solution. If England doesn't want clean Scottish energy, lets stop transmitting it. Then the distance sent is much less, the cost falls, and life gets cheaper in Scotland. See, I have just written my first practical reason why Scotland should become independent.

    Stockholm Syndrome: feelings of trust and affection towards your kidnapper
    Mansfield Syndrome: feelings of trust and affection towards the party who made your shitty town more shitty
    Buchan Syndrome: realising that however bonkers Sindy appears on the surface, there are genuine practical issues behind it that unionists have no answers to
    Post of the week, so far.

    The more you delve into the topic, the more practical issues you will find. Self-government is simply common sense, and independence is normal.
    Personally I would be happy for Scots and Scotland if they vote for independence and make a success of it. It will lance the boil. But do you never have pause to think of how Brexit has gone so far? Why will Scotland breaking up from rUK be better?
    Well Boris Johnson, Dave Davis, JRM, Frosty, IDS etc likely won’t be involved, so that’s a head start.
    Currency, national debt, pensions, army, to name just four.
    They don't need an army. Five minutes talking to Ian Blackford and any invader will turn and flee.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,699
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I'm just thinking back to when Rangers went bust thanks to HMRC, an executive agency of UKG, requiring that taxes be paid. I seem to recall that quite a few fans blamed the SNP (albeit amongst other things).
    Not really a plausible story. As if HMRC actually got somebody to pay tax.
    Oh, it's true. The irony of what at least one ScoTory keeps calling Her Majesty's Eleven not paying their due to HMtQ was much remarked on at the time.
    It was a gently sarcastic comment on the gross incompetence of HMRC.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,822

    For all the flaws of the current government, it's worth noting the biggest problems faced (excepting energy for which all governing parties are culpable) are external. COVID-19, the lockdown cost, the rampant inflation caused by the Ukraine-Russia war, all of it had external causes.

    I do think inflation/energy should be more directly linked by politicians to the war in Ukraine.

    Er. You don't feel that Brexit is the fault of the current Government, or you still think it's a good thing?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,293

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    Basically down to Scotland being an uninhabited wilderness.
    Or something.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,493

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    The scale of it will overwhelm them all. Whatever 'solution' is applied i suspect its a finger in the dyke
    Everything is creaking
    A true sense of a state falling apart and failing to provide the basics. And yet some people still say "what is Starmer's solution" whilst indicating they will still vote Conservative.
    To win, Starmer needs to set out his stall and have some convincing policies as well as appealing sales patter. It is not enough to be solid, competent and honest though each of those is a step up from flaky, incompetent and mendacious.

    The state is indeed falling apart across the board, schools, universities, courts, social care, NHS, immigration and asylum, now with the added handicaps of Brexit and energy prices to business. Yet what is proposed is to sack 20% of the Civil Servants needed to get back on track.

    It is like the dying days of the Major regime, only with a much worse economy and debt situation.

    I hope that Starmer can follow his centre-ground leanings and propose "what works" solutions. Ideology is what got us into this mess, it won't get us out.

    But the Mansfield Syndrome still bites hard amongst some voters. It doesn't matter that they can see the basics falling apart around them as you describe. They were persuaded that it was all someone else's fault and only the Tories & Brexit could fix things. Despite things getting clearly worse not better, its a persuasive mental delusion that "it will be better tomorrow".

    That ToryTV focus group in Bury North was interesting. 9 Tory 2019 voters and 7 already likely to vote Labour. Of the two holdouts, the bloke my age displayed all signs of Mansfield Syndrome. So the challenge for Labour is to offer something at which at least explains why things are this bad and the first practical steps on the journey to fix them, and they could walk it.

    And in the upside down, the LibDems need to do the same to southern Tories who seem to be increasingly disillusioned with Leonite Tory rhetoric and increasingly stupid policies. A LibDem platform of similar policies to Labour but less threatening can do the Tories serious damage. And as Labour keep stealing LD policies that feels doable.
    One catch, maybe a Catch-22.

    On one hand it is really obvious what practical step would do most to put a bit more sparkle in the economy and give the government bandwidth to begin to manage all the other problems.

    On the other hand, mentioning that step is still guaranteed to drive Mansfield Man back into the arms of Momma Liz.
    I'm less convinced by that now. The political maneuver has been clear for a while
    1) "We need to make Brexit work. X, Y and Z have happened which you tell us are shit"
    2) "The Boris Brexit deal has failed. We need to fix it to remove the Brussels red tape"
    3) "We have negotiated a deal to remove the red tape and stop them penalising our trade with them"

    Meanwhile, join a customs union with The Customs Union. Create a single market access protocol where we will enforce the existing "a job in 90 days or you get deported" rule which means we need to document everyone coming in from Europe. A renewed partnership with France to reduce the flow of small boats by rejoiningthe Dublin accords.

    Done.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697
    Carnyx said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I'm just thinking back to when Rangers went bust thanks to HMRC, an executive agency of UKG, requiring that taxes be paid. I seem to recall that quite a few fans blamed the SNP (albeit amongst other things).
    But it was Scotland's own Crown Office who really messed up.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,406
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    I have magic beans and bridges to sell that 13%.

    Meanwhile, the next PM is being comprehensively outplayed by Keir Starmer!! Not sure that bodes well.

    He was uncharacteristically relaxed and impressive yesterday. Maybe all he needed was a holiday. We've got every reason to be optimistic. With all the baggage she's carrying we can expect him to give Ms Truss a pretty torrid time. It'll be interesting to see who she appoints as Home secretary. Patel again would be a gift
    Braverman most likely
    That would be even better. The thought is so preposterous I didn't consider it but I'd momentarily forgotten how far the Tory Party had sunk.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,493

    Rishi Sunak has committed to cutting Civil Service jobs as part of a “shake up” of the “bloated post-Covid state” that would also require senior civil servants to spend a year working outside of Whitehall if they want promotion.

    The Sunak campaign said the plans include cutting the “back office” headcount, changing pay rewards from being based on longevity to performance, bringing back a version of the suspended fast-stream graduate recruitment programme, and championing the use of apprenticeships.

    The Tory leadership hopeful and former chancellor said the “bloated post-Covid state is in need of a shake-up” and committed to reforms to create a “leaner” and “truly Rolls Royce service”.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/rishi-sunak-civil-service-job-cuts-b1018754.html

    Pretty desperate stuff from Rishi who seems to be flailing around in search of headlines, even if you might agree with him on certain points.

    It works in big business though. Blue Chips do this on a regular cycle. Cut a % of jobs, make the survivors feel like they are lucky to still have a job where they get to do 120% of their previous job for a 1.071% pay rise.
    In what sense does it work? My experience of the private sector is that it encourages a high turnover of staff - the best staff will tend not to stay anywhere for too long because they can find a better job elsewhere. This means that the institution has a big problem holding onto institutional knowledge - the number of meetings that become a question of, "who is left who still knows what x is?"

    This also means there's a constant struggle to recruit people with the necessary skills, little incentive to train anyone (because they'll leave and the training expense will be wasted), which creates a large overhead, and then you have to deal with a proportion of absolute duffers who get brought in because there's no-one else available.

    I'm not saying the staffing approach in the public sector is without its problems, but I'd be hard-pressed to say it was better in the private sector (though I've done very well out of it salary-wise).
    In the sense that they all do it. New CEO is appointed. New management team. Need to make cuts. Fire a load of people. Get efficiency savings for the board. Do it again. Take a huuuuge bonus. Then notice that some departments are inefficient. Restructure. Hire "new" staff who then drive better performance. Take another huuuuge bonus. Leave.

    Rinse. Repeat.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,661
    Mr. Palmer, leaving the EU was down to the electorate and two utterly useless referendum campaigns.

    I don't think it is remotely as significant for the current state of affairs as the Chinese plague, or the Russian-caused economic problems. Energy policy here has been something I and others have criticised and this current government is culpable, as are predecessors all the way back to Blair. Ed Miliband, as Energy Secretary, was always shit hot at closing coal-powered stations but rather less good at getting more nuclear up and running. May's foolish nuclear deal for an unproven and costly design with Chinese involvement epitomised the multi-party incompetence in this area over the last quarter of a century.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525
    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,493
    Eabhal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Is UK energy just irretrievably fucked ?

    Energy production in Scotland seems pretty good..

    Have had interesting conversations with my Spanish FIL these last few weeks out here. Spain isn't on the hook to Russia for energy - their gas comes from north Africa apparently. Spain supposedly told the EU where to stick its energy reduction targets and is unhappy with paying Ukraine-affected market prices for gas when its gas isn't affected.

    That feels very similar to energy generation in Scotland. TNUoS - Transmission Network Use of System charges from the National Grid make it 20% more expensive to generate renewable power in Scotland (where it is plentiful) vs England. Why? Because the PLC wants to recoup £dollah for use of its wires, and the power needs to be sent such a long way to reach that London.

    This is insane. We need more renewable energy, not less. Yet the privatised "let the market decide" industry is using 30 years out of date models to penalise the power generation we have.
    The “National Grid” is robbing Scots blind. No normal country would put up with it.
    Yes, and independence will fix that. The Tories, in their benevolence, will remove those charges and flood Scotland with English money, inducing a massive world leading renewables industry north of the border.

    They will complete ignore places like Teesside, and cancel all the massive English offshore wind turbine projects in order to funnel cash into hands of the newly independent Scots.
    I think the argument is that Scotland would own its part of the grid. Most European markets are directly interconnected for energy. So the Eng <> Sco interconectors can now function with correct market prices where Scotland doesn't pa a huge premium for cheap local clean power, and sells the surplus to England for profit like Norway.

    As for wind turbines etc, once you remove the rigged market these become seriously profitable. I'm a long-standing advocate for the UK actually designing and manufacturing the things it needs. So instead of the Moray East windfarm using imported turbines, manufacture them, install them, export others, and make a profit.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,177
    Good morning everyone; heatwave has definitely gone away here.

    Had an interesting email yesterday from a distant family member in the US Midwest, to the effect that they planning a trip eastwards, and are concerned about Covid, "as the situation is very bad" where they are going!

  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 196

    Pulpstar said:

    Balrog said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fpt

    pm215 said:

    Can anyone who is more in the know about energy tell me - how do we calculate the payment for second hand energy? If a windmill or a solar panel generates excess power, and that power is stored by battery, or used to pump water up a hill to be converted back into energy when needed, who gets the payment? Does the wind farm or solar farm get the payment because they generated the energy initially? If so, who pays the battery/water pump people?

    I don't think it's possible to track electrons like that. If you're running a wind farm or a solar farm, you generate electricity and sell it into the grid at whatever the going rate is (or whatever you managed to negotiate as a rate). Then you're done, and out of the picture: you got paid. If you're a storage system like a battery, you both buy electricity from the grid to store, and later sell electricity to the grid, again at the going or negotiated rate. You don't care whether the electricity you're storing was generated by wind farm, nuclear or gas -- you're just going to aim to buy low and sell high.

    Thanks to you (and Sandy). That seems rather unsatisfactory. Perhaps that's why so many water pumping schemes are stalled without the investment they need. There is virtually no margin.
    Except electricity prices fluctuate through the day due to the changes in generation and demand.

    Battery owners can buy it cheap in the small hours, or on sunny/windy days and sell it back to the grid at a profit on cold, dark, still nights.

    That's the theory anyway.
    I understand the theory, but it seems strange to me that the generators of useless excess power should be entitled to feed the grid at full whack, and the companies that enable that power to be there when people actually need it have to scrape a profit here and there in the way you describe. It could explain the lack of storage in our system - what's the point?
    I don't think there's ever been a time when combined solar plus wind has ever been 100% of UK electricity usage.

    When Hinckley Point C comes on board then - given that also has guaranteed purchase price agreements - that may change.

    Varying price of electricity != useless excess power.
    Do commercial solar and wind farms have guaranteed prices for all they generate?

    I guess we could export any excess.
    Some do, some don't.

    New commercial solar installations do not. Historic ones do.
    Makes sense.

    @Luckyguy1983 Isn't the problem with pumped water storage that it's very expensive to build?
    I understood problem with pumped storage in the UK is geography - not enough suitable hills where you want them. One experimental approach being explored was pumped storage with liquid many times denser than water. Works well with smaller hills so more opportunities in UK.
    Rivers of Mercury xD
    And lifting/lowering heavy weights up and down old mine shafts.
    I don't think there's an issue with lack of hills for pumped storage schemes. The BBC article I posted upthread suggests that there are a whole load of schemes that have been greenlit but are stalled due to lack of funding.

    If the Government is paying wind farms and solar farms for every bit of power they produce, and even paying them to switch off when the grid is full, that's a costly situation (though obviously not at the moment) that will need to be addressed as wind power continues to expand. These pumped storage schemes need to be built fast. That or something similar, though personally I'd rather be pushing water around than putting massive batteries everywhere (though it might be clean, I don't know anything about it).
    Another promising option is compressing/liquifiying air. Good round trip efficiency, scalable, using established technology. There are a few pilot plants around. And possible option for separating out the CO2.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,254

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I had a dbs back in days last summer. A few anecdotes do not data make.
    Angus Council recently took more than 5 months to renew my MiL's Blue badge. It was applied for in good time and not particularly complicated, Strangely enough the age related disabilities that shhe had 3 years ago have not gotten better in the meantime. It took weeks to confirm that Angus at least would not give a ticket to someone with an out of date badge but Dundee never replied to numerous inquiries as to what they would do with an out of date, out of area badge.

    The backlog for registration of title deeds in Scotland is also at record levels and seriously impeding onward transactions.

    Both of these seem to arise from working from home in jobs that require you to look at physical things not readily available online. When you have the stories about DVLA or Passports this seems to be an endemic public sector problem from which Scotland is not immune.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,493

    Pulpstar said:

    Is UK energy just irretrievably fucked ?

    Energy production in Scotland seems pretty good..

    Have had interesting conversations with my Spanish FIL these last few weeks out here. Spain isn't on the hook to Russia for energy - their gas comes from north Africa apparently. Spain supposedly told the EU where to stick its energy reduction targets and is unhappy with paying Ukraine-affected market prices for gas when its gas isn't affected.

    That feels very similar to energy generation in Scotland. TNUoS - Transmission Network Use of System charges from the National Grid make it 20% more expensive to generate renewable power in Scotland (where it is plentiful) vs England. Why? Because the PLC wants to recoup £dollah for use of its wires, and the power needs to be sent such a long way to reach that London.

    This is insane. We need more renewable energy, not less. Yet the privatised "let the market decide" industry is using 30 years out of date models to penalise the power generation we have.
    There is a solution. If England doesn't want clean Scottish energy, lets stop transmitting it. Then the distance sent is much less, the cost falls, and life gets cheaper in Scotland. See, I have just written my first practical reason why Scotland should become independent.

    Stockholm Syndrome: feelings of trust and affection towards your kidnapper
    Mansfield Syndrome: feelings of trust and affection towards the party who made your shitty town more shitty
    Buchan Syndrome: realising that however bonkers Sindy appears on the surface, there are genuine practical issues behind it that unionists have no answers to
    Post of the week, so far.

    The more you delve into the topic, the more practical issues you will find. Self-government is simply common sense, and independence is normal.
    Personally I would be happy for Scots and Scotland if they vote for independence and make a success of it. It will lance the boil. But do you never have pause to think of how Brexit has gone so far? Why will Scotland breaking up from rUK be better?
    And that is the great unknown the Yes campaigners will need to get past. Yes the list of grievances is lengthy. But unless the proposed alternatives are clearly better, it remains a leap in the dark.

    Remember the practical realities of suffers of Mansfield Syndrome is that having recognised their town was shit and identified The Other who is to blame, they have ended up covered in more shit, not less. The same could happen to iScotland very easily...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,802

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    The scale of it will overwhelm them all. Whatever 'solution' is applied i suspect its a finger in the dyke
    Everything is creaking
    A true sense of a state falling apart and failing to provide the basics. And yet some people still say "what is Starmer's solution" whilst indicating they will still vote Conservative.
    To win, Starmer needs to set out his stall and have some convincing policies as well as appealing sales patter. It is not enough to be solid, competent and honest though each of those is a step up from flaky, incompetent and mendacious.

    The state is indeed falling apart across the board, schools, universities, courts, social care, NHS, immigration and asylum, now with the added handicaps of Brexit and energy prices to business. Yet what is proposed is to sack 20% of the Civil Servants needed to get back on track.

    It is like the dying days of the Major regime, only with a much worse economy and debt situation.

    I hope that Starmer can follow his centre-ground leanings and propose "what works" solutions. Ideology is what got us into this mess, it won't get us out.

    But the Mansfield Syndrome still bites hard amongst some voters. It doesn't matter that they can see the basics falling apart around them as you describe. They were persuaded that it was all someone else's fault and only the Tories & Brexit could fix things. Despite things getting clearly worse not better, its a persuasive mental delusion that "it will be better tomorrow".

    That ToryTV focus group in Bury North was interesting. 9 Tory 2019 voters and 7 already likely to vote Labour. Of the two holdouts, the bloke my age displayed all signs of Mansfield Syndrome. So the challenge for Labour is to offer something at which at least explains why things are this bad and the first practical steps on the journey to fix them, and they could walk it.

    And in the upside down, the LibDems need to do the same to southern Tories who seem to be increasingly disillusioned with Leonite Tory rhetoric and increasingly stupid policies. A LibDem platform of similar policies to Labour but less threatening can do the Tories serious damage. And as Labour keep stealing LD policies that feels doable.
    One catch, maybe a Catch-22.

    On one hand it is really obvious what practical step would do most to put a bit more sparkle in the economy and give the government bandwidth to begin to manage all the other problems.

    On the other hand, mentioning that step is still guaranteed to drive Mansfield Man back into the arms of Momma Liz.
    I'm less convinced by that now. The political maneuver has been clear for a while
    1) "We need to make Brexit work. X, Y and Z have happened which you tell us are shit"
    2) "The Boris Brexit deal has failed. We need to fix it to remove the Brussels red tape"
    3) "We have negotiated a deal to remove the red tape and stop them penalising our trade with them"

    Meanwhile, join a customs union with The Customs Union. Create a single market access protocol where we will enforce the existing "a job in 90 days or you get deported" rule which means we need to document everyone coming in from Europe. A renewed partnership with France to reduce the flow of small boats by rejoiningthe Dublin accords.

    Done.
    Agree that's roughly the pathway. Each step is a something-for-something, which is important for deals. Each step makes life a bit better for UK people and businesses. And if my theory of a Brexit Bulge generation is right, it allows a gradual realignment as the mood of the UK changes by demographics. And a first step doesn't have to go any further.

    But it must not be spoken of, because it triggers a certain sort of snowflake who fears a slippery slope.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,919

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Lovely bit of victim blaming!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,243
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I'm just thinking back to when Rangers went bust thanks to HMRC, an executive agency of UKG, requiring that taxes be paid. I seem to recall that quite a few fans blamed the SNP (albeit amongst other things).
    Not really a plausible story. As if HMRC actually got somebody to pay tax.
    HMRC won the court case (after many years), but they didn’t get a penny, because Rangers no longer legally exists.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-40501361
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,699

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I'm just thinking back to when Rangers went bust thanks to HMRC, an executive agency of UKG, requiring that taxes be paid. I seem to recall that quite a few fans blamed the SNP (albeit amongst other things).
    Not really a plausible story. As if HMRC actually got somebody to pay tax.
    HMRC won the court case (after many years), but they didn’t get a penny, because Rangers no longer legally exists.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-40501361
    Sounds like HMRC.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,216
    Mr Tubbs,

    "he has also FAILED TO STOP."

    A very good point. It seems he was taking the piss, he's above the law now - you can't touch me.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,699
    CD13 said:

    Mr Tubbs,

    "he has also FAILED TO STOP."

    A very good point. It seems he was taking the piss, he's above the law now - you can't touch me.

    Missed his career. Just think what a wonderful senior police officer he would have made.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525
    DavidL said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I had a dbs back in days last summer. A few anecdotes do not data make.
    Angus Council recently took more than 5 months to renew my MiL's Blue badge. It was applied for in good time and not particularly complicated, Strangely enough the age related disabilities that shhe had 3 years ago have not gotten better in the meantime. It took weeks to confirm that Angus at least would not give a ticket to someone with an out of date badge but Dundee never replied to numerous inquiries as to what they would do with an out of date, out of area badge.

    The backlog for registration of title deeds in Scotland is also at record levels and seriously impeding onward transactions.

    Both of these seem to arise from working from home in jobs that require you to look at physical things not readily available online. When you have the stories about DVLA or Passports this seems to be an endemic public sector problem from which Scotland is not immune.
    My Dad (83) is currently still without his driving licence after a poorly time eye test in December (between two sets of cataract surgery). He should have been fine to drive for the last 7 months. Recently retested and all good, but still no licence.

    Stories from the DVLA from covid are atrocious. They need a rocket up there arses. There is no competition - you can't go to another provider, so its a captive market. So for all the talk of privatisation (you know who you are) beware that state run entities are not always better.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,293
    That ignoring thing going pretty well.


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,038
    edited August 16

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    An unconditional apology was given some time back.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,947
    edited August 16
    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I'm just thinking back to when Rangers went bust thanks to HMRC, an executive agency of UKG, requiring that taxes be paid. I seem to recall that quite a few fans blamed the SNP (albeit amongst other things).
    But it was Scotland's own Crown Office who really messed up.
    On a follow-up matter re the alleged conduct of the liquidators? Yes, I gather so.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Lovely bit of victim blaming!
    He did not stop for the police. I'd expect to have to account for that if I did the same.

    I have some sympathy for him - he is clearly getting picked on as a young black guy driving very late at night in flash cars. But he didn't stop for the police - an offence in itself.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,880

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    I used to work in hospitality jobs a couple of decades back, and would get stopped every few weeks driving around at 4am, often smelling of beer - from working with it, rather than consuming it.

    The police were doing their job, and I was doing mine, no problem. But you always stop when flashed.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,919
    Nigelb said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    And unconditional apology was given some time back.
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.

    There are tens of thousands of drivers on their phones every day in London and very few armed police. Why does the met stop a car of someone who was not on their phone with seven armed police? Because he embarrassed them and they wanted to intimidate him or worse.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,035
    Good morning

    Johnson decamping to Chequers and seemingly on permanent holiday, the two leadership candidates tearing chunks out of each other, the cost of living crisis uppermost in everyone's minds, labour telling everyone they will not pay anymore for energy from October to next Spring but no idea what happens next, tedious brexit arguments, and Europe facing dreadful problems is it no wonder that I like to just sit in the garden, or look after our grandchildren, rather than argue tribally on politics when all we do know is it will be a conservative government for the next two years no matter how much largesse labour, lib dems and the SNP offer the public
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,947

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I'm just thinking back to when Rangers went bust thanks to HMRC, an executive agency of UKG, requiring that taxes be paid. I seem to recall that quite a few fans blamed the SNP (albeit amongst other things).
    Not really a plausible story. As if HMRC actually got somebody to pay tax.
    HMRC won the court case (after many years), but they didn’t get a penny, because Rangers no longer legally exists.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-40501361
    Lots of other people went partly or wholly unpaid, from the local face-painting business onwards, IIRC.

    OTOH HMRC did what it intended to do. It scared the shite out of all the other footie (and sports) clubs, and presumably stopped that not so little tax dodge across the industry. So very much quids in, overall.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,038
    Balrog said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Balrog said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fpt

    pm215 said:

    Can anyone who is more in the know about energy tell me - how do we calculate the payment for second hand energy? If a windmill or a solar panel generates excess power, and that power is stored by battery, or used to pump water up a hill to be converted back into energy when needed, who gets the payment? Does the wind farm or solar farm get the payment because they generated the energy initially? If so, who pays the battery/water pump people?

    I don't think it's possible to track electrons like that. If you're running a wind farm or a solar farm, you generate electricity and sell it into the grid at whatever the going rate is (or whatever you managed to negotiate as a rate). Then you're done, and out of the picture: you got paid. If you're a storage system like a battery, you both buy electricity from the grid to store, and later sell electricity to the grid, again at the going or negotiated rate. You don't care whether the electricity you're storing was generated by wind farm, nuclear or gas -- you're just going to aim to buy low and sell high.

    Thanks to you (and Sandy). That seems rather unsatisfactory. Perhaps that's why so many water pumping schemes are stalled without the investment they need. There is virtually no margin.
    Except electricity prices fluctuate through the day due to the changes in generation and demand.

    Battery owners can buy it cheap in the small hours, or on sunny/windy days and sell it back to the grid at a profit on cold, dark, still nights.

    That's the theory anyway.
    I understand the theory, but it seems strange to me that the generators of useless excess power should be entitled to feed the grid at full whack, and the companies that enable that power to be there when people actually need it have to scrape a profit here and there in the way you describe. It could explain the lack of storage in our system - what's the point?
    I don't think there's ever been a time when combined solar plus wind has ever been 100% of UK electricity usage.

    When Hinckley Point C comes on board then - given that also has guaranteed purchase price agreements - that may change.

    Varying price of electricity != useless excess power.
    Do commercial solar and wind farms have guaranteed prices for all they generate?

    I guess we could export any excess.
    Some do, some don't.

    New commercial solar installations do not. Historic ones do.
    Makes sense.

    @Luckyguy1983 Isn't the problem with pumped water storage that it's very expensive to build?
    I understood problem with pumped storage in the UK is geography - not enough suitable hills where you want them. One experimental approach being explored was pumped storage with liquid many times denser than water. Works well with smaller hills so more opportunities in UK.
    Rivers of Mercury xD
    And lifting/lowering heavy weights up and down old mine shafts.
    I don't think there's an issue with lack of hills for pumped storage schemes. The BBC article I posted upthread suggests that there are a whole load of schemes that have been greenlit but are stalled due to lack of funding.

    If the Government is paying wind farms and solar farms for every bit of power they produce, and even paying them to switch off when the grid is full, that's a costly situation (though obviously not at the moment) that will need to be addressed as wind power continues to expand. These pumped storage schemes need to be built fast. That or something similar, though personally I'd rather be pushing water around than putting massive batteries everywhere (though it might be clean, I don't know anything about it).
    Another promising option is compressing/liquifiying air. Good round trip efficiency, scalable, using established technology. There are a few pilot plants around. And possible option for separating out the CO2.
    Highview Power.

    What needs to be appreciated is that there is a lot of headroom in terms of wind power capacity before long term storage starts to look economically attractive.

    The current approach of funding pilot schemes is probably the right one.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,775
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    I have magic beans and bridges to sell that 13%.

    Meanwhile, the next PM is being comprehensively outplayed by Keir Starmer!! Not sure that bodes well.

    He was uncharacteristically relaxed and impressive yesterday. Maybe all he needed was a holiday. We've got every reason to be optimistic. With all the baggage she's carrying we can expect him to give Ms Truss a pretty torrid time. It'll be interesting to see who she appoints as Home secretary. Patel again would be a gift
    Braverman most likely
    That would be even better. The thought is so preposterous I didn't consider it but I'd momentarily forgotten how far the Tory Party had sunk.
    Bravo Roger! Keep 'em coming.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525

    Nigelb said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    And unconditional apology was given some time back.
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.

    There are tens of thousands of drivers on their phones every day in London and very few armed police. Why does the met stop a car of someone who was not on their phone with seven armed police? Because he embarrassed them and they wanted to intimidate him or worse.
    Are there tens of thousands on their phones at 4 am in a flash car and sadly matching the racial profile of drug dealers?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,243
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I'm just thinking back to when Rangers went bust thanks to HMRC, an executive agency of UKG, requiring that taxes be paid. I seem to recall that quite a few fans blamed the SNP (albeit amongst other things).
    Not really a plausible story. As if HMRC actually got somebody to pay tax.
    HMRC won the court case (after many years), but they didn’t get a penny, because Rangers no longer legally exists.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-40501361
    Sounds like HMRC.
    It is reminiscent of the Covid loans fraud scandal: a lot of the companies were subsequently simply wrapped up. A lot of people who should be behind bars are instead laughing all the way to the bank.

    The cheek is that “Rangers” still claim all their pre-2012 achievements. Funny that. They don’t exist for tax purposes, but they do for sporting purposes.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,136
    late to this but it’s remarkable how public opinion has shifted:

    was Britain right or wrong to leave the EU?
    - right: 36%
    - wrong: 52%
    - don’t know: 12%
    https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/ https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/1559445217950015493/photo/1
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,880

    DavidL said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I had a dbs back in days last summer. A few anecdotes do not data make.
    Angus Council recently took more than 5 months to renew my MiL's Blue badge. It was applied for in good time and not particularly complicated, Strangely enough the age related disabilities that shhe had 3 years ago have not gotten better in the meantime. It took weeks to confirm that Angus at least would not give a ticket to someone with an out of date badge but Dundee never replied to numerous inquiries as to what they would do with an out of date, out of area badge.

    The backlog for registration of title deeds in Scotland is also at record levels and seriously impeding onward transactions.

    Both of these seem to arise from working from home in jobs that require you to look at physical things not readily available online. When you have the stories about DVLA or Passports this seems to be an endemic public sector problem from which Scotland is not immune.
    My Dad (83) is currently still without his driving licence after a poorly time eye test in December (between two sets of cataract surgery). He should have been fine to drive for the last 7 months. Recently retested and all good, but still no licence.

    Stories from the DVLA from covid are atrocious. They need a rocket up there arses. There is no competition - you can't go to another provider, so its a captive market. So for all the talk of privatisation (you know who you are) beware that state run entities are not always better.
    One of the best ideas to have come out of the Tory leadship race, was Kemi Badenoch’s suggestion that the six-figure heads of arms-length agencies such as the DVLA, need to be held accountable for such failures to perform their basic functions. This has gone on for two years now, yet no-one has been fired for the shambles. If DVLA were a private sector company, the shareholders would have fired the CEO a long time ago.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,651

    Good morning everyone; heatwave has definitely gone away here.

    Had an interesting email yesterday from a distant family member in the US Midwest, to the effect that they planning a trip eastwards, and are concerned about Covid, "as the situation is very bad" where they are going!

    The lady who owns the cottage next to us, but actually lives in Houston, came over for a month in July, first visit since before Covid. Prior to coming, she grilled me via email about how dire was the situation in the UK, how certain was it that she'd catch Covid? She seemed to think we were still in April 2020 here.
  • Labour’s announcement seems to have been one of the best they’ve done since Starmer took over. Feels like the Tories have been caught on the back foot which just shows how crap they’re doing
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,094

    Good morning

    Johnson decamping to Chequers and seemingly on permanent holiday, the two leadership candidates tearing chunks out of each other, the cost of living crisis uppermost in everyone's minds, labour telling everyone they will not pay anymore for energy from October to next Spring but no idea what happens next, tedious brexit arguments, and Europe facing dreadful problems is it no wonder that I like to just sit in the garden, or look after our grandchildren, rather than argue tribally on politics when all we do know is it will be a conservative government for the next two years no matter how much largesse labour, lib dems and the SNP offer the public

    How long did the Johnsons actual enjoy their expensive wallpaper? It's only been fitted a few months iirc. That's probably the thing that hurts the most.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,947

    Good morning

    Johnson decamping to Chequers and seemingly on permanent holiday, the two leadership candidates tearing chunks out of each other, the cost of living crisis uppermost in everyone's minds, labour telling everyone they will not pay anymore for energy from October to next Spring but no idea what happens next, tedious brexit arguments, and Europe facing dreadful problems is it no wonder that I like to just sit in the garden, or look after our grandchildren, rather than argue tribally on politics when all we do know is it will be a conservative government for the next two years no matter how much largesse labour, lib dems and the SNP offer the public

    How long did the Johnsons actual enjoy their expensive wallpaper? It's only been fitted a few months iirc. That's probably the thing that hurts the most.
    Will it get stripped out a few weeks before they return to No. 10, I wonder?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,243

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    Basically down to Scotland being an uninhabited wilderness.
    Or something.
    It is no use trying to escape their arrogance by submission or good behaviour. They have pillaged the world: when the land has nothing left for men who ravage everything, they scour the sea. If an enemy is rich, they are greedy, if he is poor, they crave glory. Neither East nor West can sate their appetite. They are the only people on earth to covet wealth and poverty with equal craving. They plunder, they butcher, they ravish, and call it by the lying name of ‘empire’. They make a desert and call it ‘peace’.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644

    Nigelb said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    And unconditional apology was given some time back.
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.

    There are tens of thousands of drivers on their phones every day in London and very few armed police. Why does the met stop a car of someone who was not on their phone with seven armed police? Because he embarrassed them and they wanted to intimidate him or worse.
    Are there tens of thousands on their phones at 4 am in a flash car and sadly matching the racial profile of drug dealers?
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,802

    Good morning

    Johnson decamping to Chequers and seemingly on permanent holiday, the two leadership candidates tearing chunks out of each other, the cost of living crisis uppermost in everyone's minds, labour telling everyone they will not pay anymore for energy from October to next Spring but no idea what happens next, tedious brexit arguments, and Europe facing dreadful problems is it no wonder that I like to just sit in the garden, or look after our grandchildren, rather than argue tribally on politics when all we do know is it will be a conservative government for the next two years no matter how much largesse labour, lib dems and the SNP offer the public

    How long did the Johnsons actual enjoy their expensive wallpaper? It's only been fitted a few months iirc. That's probably the thing that hurts the most.
    Didn't he end up paying for it himself?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,919

    Nigelb said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    And unconditional apology was given some time back.
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.

    There are tens of thousands of drivers on their phones every day in London and very few armed police. Why does the met stop a car of someone who was not on their phone with seven armed police? Because he embarrassed them and they wanted to intimidate him or worse.
    Are there tens of thousands on their phones at 4 am in a flash car and sadly matching the racial profile of drug dealers?
    What does the time matter? If they want to stop people driving on their phones they can do so at 4pm as well you know? But they don't bother with it.

    If he had stopped where they wanted and had not had cameras fitted to his car I would not be at all surprised if the police "found" some drugs in the car that they could not find with the cameras on. He was very sensible to drive on to a well lit and more public space.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,136

    Didn't he end up paying for it himself?

    Aye, right...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,819

    Nigelb said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    And unconditional apology was given some time back.
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.

    There are tens of thousands of drivers on their phones every day in London and very few armed police. Why does the met stop a car of someone who was not on their phone with seven armed police? Because he embarrassed them and they wanted to
    intimidate him or worse.
    The armed police thing is frantic sounding but a very large proportion of patrols now are armed - especially in cities and especially at night.

    I watched some trash doc series called Police Interceptors about the patrol police and I think they were all routinely armed.

    I don’t think in this case a Bobby on a bike called in a SWAT team.

  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 2,982

    Rishi Sunak has committed to cutting Civil Service jobs as part of a “shake up” of the “bloated post-Covid state” that would also require senior civil servants to spend a year working outside of Whitehall if they want promotion.

    The Sunak campaign said the plans include cutting the “back office” headcount, changing pay rewards from being based on longevity to performance, bringing back a version of the suspended fast-stream graduate recruitment programme, and championing the use of apprenticeships.

    The Tory leadership hopeful and former chancellor said the “bloated post-Covid state is in need of a shake-up” and committed to reforms to create a “leaner” and “truly Rolls Royce service”.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/rishi-sunak-civil-service-job-cuts-b1018754.html

    Pretty desperate stuff from Rishi who seems to be flailing around in search of headlines, even if you might agree with him on certain points.

    Pay rewards based on longevity went out long ago in the civil service, certainly in my branch.
    The Police and the NHS still have them.
    It would be "courageous" of him to try and take those on.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,938

    Prediction: The energy and CoL crisis will totally wipe away all the 'get brexit done', 'let's make brexit work', 'don't let them ruin brexit' crap.

    No one other than Mogg and Hannan will give a flying f*ck about brexit after the next two winters.

    I would not disagree. There are bigger fish to fry.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,880
    Sean_F said:

    Prediction: The energy and CoL crisis will totally wipe away all the 'get brexit done', 'let's make brexit work', 'don't let them ruin brexit' crap.

    No one other than Mogg and Hannan will give a flying f*ck about brexit after the next two winters.

    I would not disagree. There are bigger fish to fry.
    Which means that EU relations will take a back seat in the government’s priorities. It doesn’t mean the UK will be eagerly signing up to dynamic regulatory alignment, as some people wish.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,802

    Good morning

    Johnson decamping to Chequers and seemingly on permanent holiday, the two leadership candidates tearing chunks out of each other, the cost of living crisis uppermost in everyone's minds, labour telling everyone they will not pay anymore for energy from October to next Spring but no idea what happens next, tedious brexit arguments, and Europe facing dreadful problems is it no wonder that I like to just sit in the garden, or look after our grandchildren, rather than argue tribally on politics when all we do know is it will be a conservative government for the next two years no matter how much largesse labour, lib dems and the SNP offer the public

    A lot depends on the intonation the new PM puts on that.

    Is it said with hope- that the Conservatives have two years to repair their reputation with the public?

    Is it said with the steely determination of a dying man who will use their mortality as a superpower? That they're going to lose next time, so spend two years doing unpopular but necessary things?

    Is it said with a sneer? For the next two years, we can do whatever we damn well please and there's nothing you plebs can do about it?

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525

    Good morning everyone; heatwave has definitely gone away here.

    Had an interesting email yesterday from a distant family member in the US Midwest, to the effect that they planning a trip eastwards, and are concerned about Covid, "as the situation is very bad" where they are going!

    The lady who owns the cottage next to us, but actually lives in Houston, came over for a month in July, first visit since before Covid. Prior to coming, she grilled me via email about how dire was the situation in the UK, how certain was it that she'd catch Covid? She seemed to think we were still in April 2020 here.
    Presume thats the NY Times reporting angle then. Basically bodies in the street...
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,035

    Nigelb said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    And unconditional apology was given some time back.
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.

    There are tens of thousands of drivers on their phones every day in London and very few armed police. Why does the met stop a car of someone who was not on their phone with seven armed police? Because he embarrassed them and they wanted to intimidate him or worse.
    Are there tens of thousands on their phones at 4 am in a flash car and sadly matching the racial profile of drug dealers?
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.
    It is literally saying that black people should be policed harder on sight. I remember pb getting in a tizzy about police asking for data on people who ride trains for no apparent reason except the journey. To be fair, I'm sure almost everyone would take the same position about driving at 4am.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,699

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I'm just thinking back to when Rangers went bust thanks to HMRC, an executive agency of UKG, requiring that taxes be paid. I seem to recall that quite a few fans blamed the SNP (albeit amongst other things).
    Not really a plausible story. As if HMRC actually got somebody to pay tax.
    HMRC won the court case (after many years), but they didn’t get a penny, because Rangers no longer legally exists.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-40501361
    Sounds like HMRC.
    It is reminiscent of the Covid loans fraud scandal: a lot of the companies were subsequently simply wrapped up. A lot of people who should be behind bars are instead laughing all the way to the bank.

    The cheek is that “Rangers” still claim all their pre-2012 achievements. Funny that. They don’t exist for tax purposes, but they do for sporting purposes.
    They've achieved their goals.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,243
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I'm just thinking back to when Rangers went bust thanks to HMRC, an executive agency of UKG, requiring that taxes be paid. I seem to recall that quite a few fans blamed the SNP (albeit amongst other things).
    Not really a plausible story. As if HMRC actually got somebody to pay tax.
    HMRC won the court case (after many years), but they didn’t get a penny, because Rangers no longer legally exists.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-40501361
    Lots of other people went partly or wholly unpaid, from the local face-painting business onwards, IIRC.

    OTOH HMRC did what it intended to do. It scared the shite out of all the other footie (and sports) clubs, and presumably stopped that not so little tax dodge across the industry. So very much quids in, overall.
    Still seems odd, after all these years, that HMRC picked on Her Majesty’s Eleven to make their point. The UK Government literally destroyed one of the few genuinely popular bastions of Unionism north of the border.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,204

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    His claim was he stopped when he felt it safe to do so.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,938

    Pulpstar said:

    Is UK energy just irretrievably fucked ?

    Energy production in Scotland seems pretty good..

    Have had interesting conversations with my Spanish FIL these last few weeks out here. Spain isn't on the hook to Russia for energy - their gas comes from north Africa apparently. Spain supposedly told the EU where to stick its energy reduction targets and is unhappy with paying Ukraine-affected market prices for gas when its gas isn't affected.

    That feels very similar to energy generation in Scotland. TNUoS - Transmission Network Use of System charges from the National Grid make it 20% more expensive to generate renewable power in Scotland (where it is plentiful) vs England. Why? Because the PLC wants to recoup £dollah for use of its wires, and the power needs to be sent such a long way to reach that London.

    This is insane. We need more renewable energy, not less. Yet the privatised "let the market decide" industry is using 30 years out of date models to penalise the power generation we have.
    There is a solution. If England doesn't want clean Scottish energy, lets stop transmitting it. Then the distance sent is much less, the cost falls, and life gets cheaper in Scotland. See, I have just written my first practical reason why Scotland should become independent.

    Stockholm Syndrome: feelings of trust and affection towards your kidnapper
    Mansfield Syndrome: feelings of trust and affection towards the party who made your shitty town more shitty
    Buchan Syndrome: realising that however bonkers Sindy appears on the surface, there are genuine practical issues behind it that unionists have no answers to
    There's an alternative. People who vote Conservative do so, because life is pretty good for them.

    The Red Wall is not shitsville. It's largely made up of places where people can afford to live in good houses.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,919
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I had a dbs back in days last summer. A few anecdotes do not data make.
    Angus Council recently took more than 5 months to renew my MiL's Blue badge. It was applied for in good time and not particularly complicated, Strangely enough the age related disabilities that shhe had 3 years ago have not gotten better in the meantime. It took weeks to confirm that Angus at least would not give a ticket to someone with an out of date badge but Dundee never replied to numerous inquiries as to what they would do with an out of date, out of area badge.

    The backlog for registration of title deeds in Scotland is also at record levels and seriously impeding onward transactions.

    Both of these seem to arise from working from home in jobs that require you to look at physical things not readily available online. When you have the stories about DVLA or Passports this seems to be an endemic public sector problem from which Scotland is not immune.
    My Dad (83) is currently still without his driving licence after a poorly time eye test in December (between two sets of cataract surgery). He should have been fine to drive for the last 7 months. Recently retested and all good, but still no licence.

    Stories from the DVLA from covid are atrocious. They need a rocket up there arses. There is no competition - you can't go to another provider, so its a captive market. So for all the talk of privatisation (you know who you are) beware that state run entities are not always better.
    One of the best ideas to have come out of the Tory leadship race, was Kemi Badenoch’s suggestion that the six-figure heads of arms-length agencies such as the DVLA, need to be held accountable for such failures to perform their basic functions. This has gone on for two years now, yet no-one has been fired for the shambles. If DVLA were a private sector company, the shareholders would have fired the CEO a long time ago.
    What if the CEO says in order to succeed they need either more money from govt or fewer things to do? It is the government ministers who should be responsible, they are in charge.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 19,562
    On Topic

    13% of voters are HYUFD
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525

    Nigelb said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    And unconditional apology was given some time back.
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.

    There are tens of thousands of drivers on their phones every day in London and very few armed police. Why does the met stop a car of someone who was not on their phone with seven armed police? Because he embarrassed them and they wanted to intimidate him or worse.
    Are there tens of thousands on their phones at 4 am in a flash car and sadly matching the racial profile of drug dealers?
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.
    I'm not denying it exists (if you are implying that?). I've also been stopped by the police, but just three times in my life. Once speeding - ticket (I stopped as soon as I was pulled). Second time I missed an exit on a roundabout and (safely) went round again - police thought I was taking the piss - no action and they were nice about it and thirdly an umarked police car was tailgating me on a dual carriageway (outside lane, I was behind a slow car needlessly in the outside lane and didn't want to undertake. I dabbed the brakes, he pulled me over to tell me off, but not ticket, as I think he knew he was at fault too).

    I'm sure if I was black and driving in London at 4 am I would get pulled more often. But he should still have stopped. How is not stopping going to make it better?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,651

    Good morning everyone; heatwave has definitely gone away here.

    Had an interesting email yesterday from a distant family member in the US Midwest, to the effect that they planning a trip eastwards, and are concerned about Covid, "as the situation is very bad" where they are going!

    The lady who owns the cottage next to us, but actually lives in Houston, came over for a month in July, first visit since before Covid. Prior to coming, she grilled me via email about how dire was the situation in the UK, how certain was it that she'd catch Covid? She seemed to think we were still in April 2020 here.
    Presume thats the NY Times reporting angle then. Basically bodies in the street...
    I expect so, They are Democrats and thus probably NYT readers.

    Incidentally, it's been a while since @Leaon was extolling the virtues of the NYT as the greatest online newspaper in the world. I wonder if their anti-UK stance has made him rethink?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,938

    Pulpstar said:

    Is UK energy just irretrievably fucked ?

    Energy production in Scotland seems pretty good..

    Have had interesting conversations with my Spanish FIL these last few weeks out here. Spain isn't on the hook to Russia for energy - their gas comes from north Africa apparently. Spain supposedly told the EU where to stick its energy reduction targets and is unhappy with paying Ukraine-affected market prices for gas when its gas isn't affected.

    That feels very similar to energy generation in Scotland. TNUoS - Transmission Network Use of System charges from the National Grid make it 20% more expensive to generate renewable power in Scotland (where it is plentiful) vs England. Why? Because the PLC wants to recoup £dollah for use of its wires, and the power needs to be sent such a long way to reach that London.

    This is insane. We need more renewable energy, not less. Yet the privatised "let the market decide" industry is using 30 years out of date models to penalise the power generation we have.
    There is a solution. If England doesn't want clean Scottish energy, lets stop transmitting it. Then the distance sent is much less, the cost falls, and life gets cheaper in Scotland. See, I have just written my first practical reason why Scotland should become independent.

    Stockholm Syndrome: feelings of trust and affection towards your kidnapper
    Mansfield Syndrome: feelings of trust and affection towards the party who made your shitty town more shitty
    Buchan Syndrome: realising that however bonkers Sindy appears on the surface, there are genuine practical issues behind it that unionists have no answers to
    Post of the week, so far.

    The more you delve into the topic, the more practical issues you will find. Self-government is simply common sense, and independence is normal.
    Yes, but we've spent 300 years persecuting the Scots for the sheer pleasure of it. What makes you think we're going to stop now?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,216
    One or two are defending the black lad who did a runner when stopped by the police.

    In 1968, when I were a lad - as they say. I went to the Grosvenor Square demo in London. A youmg demonstator was being carted away by the police, but they were heading for a quiet alley, not the police van. They obviously had their kicking boots on.

    I'd seen the lad earlier rolling ball bearings towards the police horses. A middle class posho, and I felt little sympathy for him. As you reap ... oh what a brute I am.

    I still remember that. I've never wanted the police to be social workers. They're not very good at it. We have people trained to be them. Uphold the law. As long as you do it fairly, If you don't, then expect a problem. But it's not up to anyone to decide when to obey a law.

    He might be trying to make a point, just like the Met were 54 years ago. No one is the winner.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,919
    EPG said:

    Nigelb said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    And unconditional apology was given some time back.
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.

    There are tens of thousands of drivers on their phones every day in London and very few armed police. Why does the met stop a car of someone who was not on their phone with seven armed police? Because he embarrassed them and they wanted to intimidate him or worse.
    Are there tens of thousands on their phones at 4 am in a flash car and sadly matching the racial profile of drug dealers?
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.
    It is literally saying that black people should be policed harder on sight. I remember pb getting in a tizzy about police asking for data on people who ride trains for no apparent reason except the journey. To be fair, I'm sure almost everyone would take the same position about driving at 4am.
    In theory yes, but in practice too many will go along with the police's entirely spurious reasons. The guy has been stopped for driving on the wrong side of the street (his side had parked cars) and using his phone when he wasn't. The police are lying in both cases. What should be challenged is why we allow junior police to lie and don't hold them accountable for it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525

    Nigelb said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    And unconditional apology was given some time back.
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.

    There are tens of thousands of drivers on their phones every day in London and very few armed police. Why does the met stop a car of someone who was not on their phone with seven armed police? Because he embarrassed them and they wanted to intimidate him or worse.
    Are there tens of thousands on their phones at 4 am in a flash car and sadly matching the racial profile of drug dealers?
    What does the time matter? If they want to stop people driving on their phones they can do so at 4pm as well you know? But they don't bother with it.

    If he had stopped where they wanted and had not had cameras fitted to his car I would not be at all surprised if the police "found" some drugs in the car that they could not find with the cameras on. He was very sensible to drive on to a well lit and more public space.

    Have you watched the video? It was all well lit. He had the protection of his cameras. Just fucking stop - deal with it. I also suspect he is lying about the phone "I was resting my hand on my face"/
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 23,247

    ydoethur said:

    Rudy Giuliani is now a target, not a witness, in the grand jury investigation in Georgia.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62557849

    That's significant because 'target' means there is both sufficient evidence and an intention to prosecute.

    There's a certain delicious irony that a man who made loads of stupid allegations about vote rigging is about to be walloped for, er, vote rigging.

    Only a madman would agree to being Trump's "personal lawyer".

    Given his age and performance Giuliani might well be suffering from a loss of his abilities.

    But US politics is full of people well into their declining years and I suppose they think it normal to employ or work for people with similar issues.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,243

    Good morning

    Johnson decamping to Chequers and seemingly on permanent holiday, the two leadership candidates tearing chunks out of each other, the cost of living crisis uppermost in everyone's minds, labour telling everyone they will not pay anymore for energy from October to next Spring but no idea what happens next, tedious brexit arguments, and Europe facing dreadful problems is it no wonder that I like to just sit in the garden, or look after our grandchildren, rather than argue tribally on politics when all we do know is it will be a conservative government for the next two years no matter how much largesse labour, lib dems and the SNP offer the public

    A lot depends on the intonation the new PM puts on that.

    Is it said with hope- that the Conservatives have two years to repair their reputation with the public?

    Is it said with the steely determination of a dying man who will use their mortality as a superpower? That they're going to lose next time, so spend two years doing unpopular but necessary things?

    Is it said with a sneer? For the next two years, we can do whatever we damn well please and there's nothing you plebs can do about it?

    It is said with a sneer. For the next two years, the Tories can do whatever they damn well please and there's nothing you plebs can do about it.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,035
    CD13 said:

    One or two are defending the black lad who did a runner when stopped by the police.

    In 1968, when I were a lad - as they say. I went to the Grosvenor Square demo in London. A youmg demonstator was being carted away by the police, but they were heading for a quiet alley, not the police van. They obviously had their kicking boots on.

    I'd seen the lad earlier rolling ball bearings towards the police horses. A middle class posho, and I felt little sympathy for him. As you reap ... oh what a brute I am.

    I still remember that. I've never wanted the police to be social workers. They're not very good at it. We have people trained to be them. Uphold the law. As long as you do it fairly, If you don't, then expect a problem. But it's not up to anyone to decide when to obey a law.

    He might be trying to make a point, just like the Met were 54 years ago. No one is the winner.

    Right. Never gone above the speed limit?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,938

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    Basically down to Scotland being an uninhabited wilderness.
    Or something.
    It is no use trying to escape their arrogance by submission or good behaviour. They have pillaged the world: when the land has nothing left for men who ravage everything, they scour the sea. If an enemy is rich, they are greedy, if he is poor, they crave glory. Neither East nor West can sate their appetite. They are the only people on earth to covet wealth and poverty with equal craving. They plunder, they butcher, they ravish, and call it by the lying name of ‘empire’. They make a desert and call it ‘peace’.
    You just have to accept, resistance is futile.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Lovely bit of victim blaming!
    He did not stop for the police. I'd expect to have to account for that if I did the same.

    I have some sympathy for him - he is clearly getting picked on as a young black guy driving very late at night in flash cars. But he didn't stop for the police - an offence in itself.
    After Sarah Everard I think the police should expect everyone to try and reach somewhere safe before pulling over.
    It was safe. There is also a big difference between a small young woman and a professional athlete. To be vaguely humourous if he ran, they weren't gonna catch him...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,880

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I had a dbs back in days last summer. A few anecdotes do not data make.
    Angus Council recently took more than 5 months to renew my MiL's Blue badge. It was applied for in good time and not particularly complicated, Strangely enough the age related disabilities that shhe had 3 years ago have not gotten better in the meantime. It took weeks to confirm that Angus at least would not give a ticket to someone with an out of date badge but Dundee never replied to numerous inquiries as to what they would do with an out of date, out of area badge.

    The backlog for registration of title deeds in Scotland is also at record levels and seriously impeding onward transactions.

    Both of these seem to arise from working from home in jobs that require you to look at physical things not readily available online. When you have the stories about DVLA or Passports this seems to be an endemic public sector problem from which Scotland is not immune.
    My Dad (83) is currently still without his driving licence after a poorly time eye test in December (between two sets of cataract surgery). He should have been fine to drive for the last 7 months. Recently retested and all good, but still no licence.

    Stories from the DVLA from covid are atrocious. They need a rocket up there arses. There is no competition - you can't go to another provider, so its a captive market. So for all the talk of privatisation (you know who you are) beware that state run entities are not always better.
    One of the best ideas to have come out of the Tory leadship race, was Kemi Badenoch’s suggestion that the six-figure heads of arms-length agencies such as the DVLA, need to be held accountable for such failures to perform their basic functions. This has gone on for two years now, yet no-one has been fired for the shambles. If DVLA were a private sector company, the shareholders would have fired the CEO a long time ago.
    What if the CEO says in order to succeed they need either more money from govt or fewer things to do? It is the government ministers who should be responsible, they are in charge.
    They make their income from the fees they charge for their services - and from selling your data to parking cowboys, in fact maybe that’s why they’re short of resources after the pandemic.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525
    Taz said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    His claim was he stopped when he felt it safe to do so.
    Didn't look unsafe where the first contact occurred.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,699

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Lovely bit of victim blaming!
    He did not stop for the police. I'd expect to have to account for that if I did the same.

    I have some sympathy for him - he is clearly getting picked on as a young black guy driving very late at night in flash cars. But he didn't stop for the police - an offence in itself.
    After Sarah Everard I think the police should expect everyone to try and reach somewhere safe before pulling over.
    It was safe. There is also a big difference between a small young woman and a professional athlete. To be vaguely humourous if he ran, they weren't gonna catch him...
    They were armed. He could outrun them, could he outrun a bullet?

    Also, I understand this was the second time they had stopped him.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 8,843

    Good morning

    Johnson decamping to Chequers and seemingly on permanent holiday, the two leadership candidates tearing chunks out of each other, the cost of living crisis uppermost in everyone's minds, labour telling everyone they will not pay anymore for energy from October to next Spring but no idea what happens next, tedious brexit arguments, and Europe facing dreadful problems is it no wonder that I like to just sit in the garden, or look after our grandchildren, rather than argue tribally on politics when all we do know is it will be a conservative government for the next two years no matter how much largesse labour, lib dems and the SNP offer the public

    How long did the Johnsons actual enjoy their expensive wallpaper? It's only been fitted a few months iirc. That's probably the thing that hurts the most.
    Didn't he end up paying for it himself?
    He's probably scraping it off the walls right now.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525

    EPG said:

    Nigelb said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    And unconditional apology was given some time back.
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.

    There are tens of thousands of drivers on their phones every day in London and very few armed police. Why does the met stop a car of someone who was not on their phone with seven armed police? Because he embarrassed them and they wanted to intimidate him or worse.
    Are there tens of thousands on their phones at 4 am in a flash car and sadly matching the racial profile of drug dealers?
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.
    It is literally saying that black people should be policed harder on sight. I remember pb getting in a tizzy about police asking for data on people who ride trains for no apparent reason except the journey. To be fair, I'm sure almost everyone would take the same position about driving at 4am.
    In theory yes, but in practice too many will go along with the police's entirely spurious reasons. The guy has been stopped for driving on the wrong side of the street (his side had parked cars) and using his phone when he wasn't. The police are lying in both cases. What should be challenged is why we allow junior police to lie and don't hold them accountable for it.
    Are they lying about the phone? He says, they say.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,699

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    Basically down to Scotland being an uninhabited wilderness.
    Or something.
    It is no use trying to escape their arrogance by submission or good behaviour. They have pillaged the world: when the land has nothing left for men who ravage everything, they scour the sea. If an enemy is rich, they are greedy, if he is poor, they crave glory. Neither East nor West can sate their appetite. They are the only people on earth to covet wealth and poverty with equal craving. They plunder, they butcher, they ravish, and call it by the lying name of ‘empire’. They make a desert and call it ‘peace’.
    Are you Grauping for a good line?

    If so, you failed, it was more of a mons-ter.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,204

    Taz said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    His claim was he stopped when he felt it safe to do so.
    Didn't look unsafe where the first contact occurred.
    But that’s his judgement as the driver at the time being aware of his surroundings.

    He did stop.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,699
    Chris said:

    Good morning

    Johnson decamping to Chequers and seemingly on permanent holiday, the two leadership candidates tearing chunks out of each other, the cost of living crisis uppermost in everyone's minds, labour telling everyone they will not pay anymore for energy from October to next Spring but no idea what happens next, tedious brexit arguments, and Europe facing dreadful problems is it no wonder that I like to just sit in the garden, or look after our grandchildren, rather than argue tribally on politics when all we do know is it will be a conservative government for the next two years no matter how much largesse labour, lib dems and the SNP offer the public

    How long did the Johnsons actual enjoy their expensive wallpaper? It's only been fitted a few months iirc. That's probably the thing that hurts the most.
    Didn't he end up paying for it himself?
    He's probably scraping it off the walls right now.
    Possibly, but what's he going to do with the wallpaper?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,919
    edited August 16

    EPG said:

    Nigelb said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    And unconditional apology was given some time back.
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.

    There are tens of thousands of drivers on their phones every day in London and very few armed police. Why does the met stop a car of someone who was not on their phone with seven armed police? Because he embarrassed them and they wanted to intimidate him or worse.
    Are there tens of thousands on their phones at 4 am in a flash car and sadly matching the racial profile of drug dealers?
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.
    It is literally saying that black people should be policed harder on sight. I remember pb getting in a tizzy about police asking for data on people who ride trains for no apparent reason except the journey. To be fair, I'm sure almost everyone would take the same position about driving at 4am.
    In theory yes, but in practice too many will go along with the police's entirely spurious reasons. The guy has been stopped for driving on the wrong side of the street (his side had parked cars) and using his phone when he wasn't. The police are lying in both cases. What should be challenged is why we allow junior police to lie and don't hold them accountable for it.
    Are they lying about the phone? He says, they say.
    Yes they are. His phone is evidence. If he had been guilty they would have fined him, it is not a he said they said situation at all.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,243
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Is UK energy just irretrievably fucked ?

    Energy production in Scotland seems pretty good..

    Have had interesting conversations with my Spanish FIL these last few weeks out here. Spain isn't on the hook to Russia for energy - their gas comes from north Africa apparently. Spain supposedly told the EU where to stick its energy reduction targets and is unhappy with paying Ukraine-affected market prices for gas when its gas isn't affected.

    That feels very similar to energy generation in Scotland. TNUoS - Transmission Network Use of System charges from the National Grid make it 20% more expensive to generate renewable power in Scotland (where it is plentiful) vs England. Why? Because the PLC wants to recoup £dollah for use of its wires, and the power needs to be sent such a long way to reach that London.

    This is insane. We need more renewable energy, not less. Yet the privatised "let the market decide" industry is using 30 years out of date models to penalise the power generation we have.
    There is a solution. If England doesn't want clean Scottish energy, lets stop transmitting it. Then the distance sent is much less, the cost falls, and life gets cheaper in Scotland. See, I have just written my first practical reason why Scotland should become independent.

    Stockholm Syndrome: feelings of trust and affection towards your kidnapper
    Mansfield Syndrome: feelings of trust and affection towards the party who made your shitty town more shitty
    Buchan Syndrome: realising that however bonkers Sindy appears on the surface, there are genuine practical issues behind it that unionists have no answers to
    Post of the week, so far.

    The more you delve into the topic, the more practical issues you will find. Self-government is simply common sense, and independence is normal.
    Yes, but we've spent 300 years persecuting the Scots for the sheer pleasure of it. What makes you think we're going to stop now?
    300?

    I make it approx 1,100 years. At the very least.

    It must be one of the oldest still-extant rivalries on the planet.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,293
    edited August 16
    Sean_F said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    Basically down to Scotland being an uninhabited wilderness.
    Or something.
    It is no use trying to escape their arrogance by submission or good behaviour. They have pillaged the world: when the land has nothing left for men who ravage everything, they scour the sea. If an enemy is rich, they are greedy, if he is poor, they crave glory. Neither East nor West can sate their appetite. They are the only people on earth to covet wealth and poverty with equal craving. They plunder, they butcher, they ravish, and call it by the lying name of ‘empire’. They make a desert and call it ‘peace’.
    You just have to accept, resistance is futile.
    That's what we keep telling Tories in Scotland, but here they are, the puir souls still banging their empty wee heads against the wall of voter indifference after 60+ years.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,802

    Good morning

    Johnson decamping to Chequers and seemingly on permanent holiday, the two leadership candidates tearing chunks out of each other, the cost of living crisis uppermost in everyone's minds, labour telling everyone they will not pay anymore for energy from October to next Spring but no idea what happens next, tedious brexit arguments, and Europe facing dreadful problems is it no wonder that I like to just sit in the garden, or look after our grandchildren, rather than argue tribally on politics when all we do know is it will be a conservative government for the next two years no matter how much largesse labour, lib dems and the SNP offer the public

    A lot depends on the intonation the new PM puts on that.

    Is it said with hope- that the Conservatives have two years to repair their reputation with the public?

    Is it said with the steely determination of a dying man who will use their mortality as a superpower? That they're going to lose next time, so spend two years doing unpopular but necessary things?

    Is it said with a sneer? For the next two years, we can do whatever we damn well please and there's nothing you plebs can do about it?

    It is said with a sneer. For the next two years, the Tories can do whatever they damn well please and there's nothing you plebs can do about it.
    That's what bothers me. It's not particularly how I remember the dying days of Brown or Major, and Callaghan and Home were before my time. But "if you don't like it, you can vote for (titters) Corbyn/Starmer in (chortles) 2024" has been the attitude of Johnson and co since 2019. And I don't get the sense that Truss wants to break with that.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,243
    Sean_F said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    Basically down to Scotland being an uninhabited wilderness.
    Or something.
    It is no use trying to escape their arrogance by submission or good behaviour. They have pillaged the world: when the land has nothing left for men who ravage everything, they scour the sea. If an enemy is rich, they are greedy, if he is poor, they crave glory. Neither East nor West can sate their appetite. They are the only people on earth to covet wealth and poverty with equal craving. They plunder, they butcher, they ravish, and call it by the lying name of ‘empire’. They make a desert and call it ‘peace’.
    You just have to accept, resistance is futile.
    Err… no.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom
  • @rcs1000 I don't know if it's an issue at all, but the Vanilla Recent Discussions page is showing this thread as having only 1 View, and the last thread only has 1.6k views (should be over 6k), so looks like it stopped counting thread views about a quarter of the way through
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,525

    EPG said:

    Nigelb said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    And unconditional apology was given some time back.
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.

    There are tens of thousands of drivers on their phones every day in London and very few armed police. Why does the met stop a car of someone who was not on their phone with seven armed police? Because he embarrassed them and they wanted to intimidate him or worse.
    Are there tens of thousands on their phones at 4 am in a flash car and sadly matching the racial profile of drug dealers?
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.
    It is literally saying that black people should be policed harder on sight. I remember pb getting in a tizzy about police asking for data on people who ride trains for no apparent reason except the journey. To be fair, I'm sure almost everyone would take the same position about driving at 4am.
    In theory yes, but in practice too many will go along with the police's entirely spurious reasons. The guy has been stopped for driving on the wrong side of the street (his side had parked cars) and using his phone when he wasn't. The police are lying in both cases. What should be challenged is why we allow junior police to lie and don't hold them accountable for it.
    Are they lying about the phone? He says, they say.
    Yes they are. His phone is evidence. If he had been guilty they would have fined him, it is not a he said they said situation at all.
    They suspected he was using it, he wasn't, no case to answer. Fine. Stop when instructed.

    I feel like he is trying to make a point about this. Sometimes you own actions put you into situations where stuff happens. I have sympathy for him as he clearly does get racially profiled - a young black guy driving a flash car at 4 am. Sadly that also fits another section of people that the police will be interested in. The 'phone' is the excuse to stop, followed by the 'I can smell weed' or whatever. Not every stop will come up trumps.
    It reminds me of the special drink drive campaigns at Christmas. There was never a need for special legislation for the stop - all the police has to do was 'suspect' that the driver may have been drinking.

    What is the flip side of this? Should police not stop anyone that they have suspicions about?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,293
    Rishi & Liz both heirs to the FLSOJ, marvellous!


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,699
    edited August 16

    EPG said:

    Nigelb said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Given the way he and his wife and infant child were treated the last time, it's hardly surprising.

    Two years later the police involved are still awaiting their hearing for gross misconduct.
    And unconditional apology was given some time back.
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.

    There are tens of thousands of drivers on their phones every day in London and very few armed police. Why does the met stop a car of someone who was not on their phone with seven armed police? Because he embarrassed them and they wanted to intimidate him or worse.
    Are there tens of thousands on their phones at 4 am in a flash car and sadly matching the racial profile of drug dealers?
    When people deny that white privilege exists this type of response shows it clearly does.
    It is literally saying that black people should be policed harder on sight. I remember pb getting in a tizzy about police asking for data on people who ride trains for no apparent reason except the journey. To be fair, I'm sure almost everyone would take the same position about driving at 4am.
    In theory yes, but in practice too many will go along with the police's entirely spurious reasons. The guy has been stopped for driving on the wrong side of the street (his side had parked cars) and using his phone when he wasn't. The police are lying in both cases. What should be challenged is why we allow junior police to lie and don't hold them accountable for it.
    Are they lying about the phone? He says, they say.
    Yes they are. His phone is evidence. If he had been guilty they would have fined him, it is not a he said they said situation at all.
    They suspected he was using it, he wasn't, no case to answer. Fine. Stop when instructed.

    I feel like he is trying to make a point about this. Sometimes you own actions put you into situations where stuff happens. I have sympathy for him as he clearly does get racially profiled - a young black guy driving a flash car at 4 am. Sadly that also fits another section of people that the police will be interested in. The 'phone' is the excuse to stop, followed by the 'I can smell weed' or whatever. Not every stop will come up trumps.
    It reminds me of the special drink drive campaigns at Christmas. There was never a need for special legislation for the stop - all the police has to do was 'suspect' that the driver may have been drinking.

    What is the flip side of this? Should police not stop anyone that they have suspicions about?
    Not quite true. They have to have 'reasonable grounds' to suspect somebody has been drinking.

    This got two rather stupid special constables and their sergeant into trouble when they decided to stop every motorist in Dursley to breathalyse them, and with them having refused to show somebody (no names!) ID he called 999 and had them arrested for unlawful obstruction of a public highway and impersonating a police officer. The Chief Constable was not impressed.

    HOWEVER, they can breathalyse anyone they stop, without giving a reason, once they have legitimately stopped them for something else.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,448
    New thread
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,919
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Balrog said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    The crisis in schools is another thing not yet visible in the urgent in tray.
    I have remarked on PB before that I've been thinking about going back into teaching for September.
    We are now six weeks since my application for a DBS (I've had one before, and have moved once since, in the same Police authority).
    Still nowt. Target is 14 days.
    Thinking of giving up and doing summat else. Have had positive responses for potential employment from several schools, but they can't just wait for my DBS to come, with no position filled. Or not come.
    Another shambles.

    Surely DBS should be instant in today's digital age ?
    We recruited someone from London recently, and the Met took 6 months to do the DBS.
    I've applied for a job in school (non teaching), since retirement, to help with new energy bills. Been waiting for a Dbs for a month now. I don’t think it will be resolved for September. Both me and the school are now stuck.
    Have you tried Disclosure Scotland. They provide same criminal records check service as DBS for anyone in the UK but historically are much faster. They used to take a week, I don't know how it takes now. They look at the same national systems as DBS so just as valid.
    Shhhh!

    SNPbad!

    Never deviate from PB’s favourite memes.
    How is that an SNP story? You’ll be saying Rangers and Celtic being shit at football are due to the SNP next.
    Disclosure Scotland is an executive agency of the Scottish Government. It works well. The English agency doesn’t.

    https://www.mygov.scot/organisations/disclosure-scotland

    Shall we judge the performance of the English government by Manchester United results?
    I had a dbs back in days last summer. A few anecdotes do not data make.
    Angus Council recently took more than 5 months to renew my MiL's Blue badge. It was applied for in good time and not particularly complicated, Strangely enough the age related disabilities that shhe had 3 years ago have not gotten better in the meantime. It took weeks to confirm that Angus at least would not give a ticket to someone with an out of date badge but Dundee never replied to numerous inquiries as to what they would do with an out of date, out of area badge.

    The backlog for registration of title deeds in Scotland is also at record levels and seriously impeding onward transactions.

    Both of these seem to arise from working from home in jobs that require you to look at physical things not readily available online. When you have the stories about DVLA or Passports this seems to be an endemic public sector problem from which Scotland is not immune.
    My Dad (83) is currently still without his driving licence after a poorly time eye test in December (between two sets of cataract surgery). He should have been fine to drive for the last 7 months. Recently retested and all good, but still no licence.

    Stories from the DVLA from covid are atrocious. They need a rocket up there arses. There is no competition - you can't go to another provider, so its a captive market. So for all the talk of privatisation (you know who you are) beware that state run entities are not always better.
    One of the best ideas to have come out of the Tory leadship race, was Kemi Badenoch’s suggestion that the six-figure heads of arms-length agencies such as the DVLA, need to be held accountable for such failures to perform their basic functions. This has gone on for two years now, yet no-one has been fired for the shambles. If DVLA were a private sector company, the shareholders would have fired the CEO a long time ago.
    What if the CEO says in order to succeed they need either more money from govt or fewer things to do? It is the government ministers who should be responsible, they are in charge.
    They make their income from the fees they charge for their services - and from selling your data to parking cowboys, in fact maybe that’s why they’re short of resources after the pandemic.
    So DVLA net gives money to the treasury for performing a core govt responsibility but can't find the staff who are happy to do the job without striking? In which case I would expect the govt minister to say keep a bit more of the cash, give the staff a pay rise before inflation gets even worse, and improve the service.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,216
    edited August 16
    Mr EPG,

    Have I ever gone above the speed limit? Of course. Have I ever been fined for it?. Yes. I've been breathalysed and failed it. Back to the station with no argument, and I squeezed under the limit at the intoximeter there. They gave my car keys back and I was free. That was in 1984, and I learned my lesson. Never again.

    I've no illusions about the police. I played rugby for a while and I've always said that you can tell how rough a game it's going to be by counting how many players are Welsh and how many are coppers.

    Sections of the middle-class seem to look down on the police, regarding them as intellectually inferior. I know nothing about this athlete but he's acting like he fancies himself as being beyond the law now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,038
    edited August 16
    ydoethur said:

    On this athlete chap who didn’t stop for the police at 4am when requested. I have little sympathy. Why was he driving at 4 am? (Lots of valid reasons). Why didn’t he stop? (Didn’t want to into the back of the police car, he says. Utter bollocks.
    Sadly he has almost certainly be racially profiled, but he has also FAILED TO STOP. That’s his mistake right there.

    Lovely bit of victim blaming!
    He did not stop for the police. I'd expect to have to account for that if I did the same.

    I have some sympathy for him - he is clearly getting picked on as a young black guy driving very late at night in flash cars. But he didn't stop for the police - an offence in itself.
    After Sarah Everard I think the police should expect everyone to try and reach somewhere safe before pulling over.
    It was safe. There is also a big difference between a small young woman and a professional athlete. To be vaguely humourous if he ran, they weren't gonna catch him...
    They were armed. He could outrun them, could he outrun a bullet?

    Also, I understand this was the second time they had stopped him.
    Third, apparently.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62546231
    ...In July 2020, footage of Ms Williams and Mr Dos Santos being searched and handcuffed was widely shared on social media, with Ms Williams later accusing the police of racially profiling them.
    After the search, details of the couple's three-month-old baby were also stored on a police database called Merlin, used to record information on children who become known to the authorities.
    In April, the IOPC said an acting police sergeant and four police constables will all face a gross misconduct disciplinary hearing over the incident...

This discussion has been closed.