Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

How’s Truss going to do against Starmer and vice versa? – politicalbetting.com

135

Comments

  • .

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    Well not NI from pensioners.
    Still comes out of taxes
    Which your generation do not pay.
    Of course my I pay tax but my wife's sole income from her pension is just £4,850 pa and would not pay NI anyway if it was levied

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    .

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    Well not NI from pensioners.
    Still comes out of taxes
    Which your generation do not pay.
    IN other words, mostly Tory voters, members, and people who are ex-members but desperate to rejoin.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited August 2022
    kle4 said:

    Everyone who uses water must rethink and make sure they use it wisely, the chairman of the body that has declared droughts around England says.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62532620

    'Everyone who uses water'...as in every human being?

    He's such a wet blanket he doesn't need to.

    Of course, he could start by ordering the water companies to, y'know, fix their fecking pipes.

    Edit - great minds, etc @Beibheirli_C
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,305
    Russian state TV boasting about the natural resources they hope to annex from Ukraine:

    https://twitter.com/juliadavisnews/status/1558544508404617222
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    edited August 2022
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-lib-dem-supply-confidence-b2125698.html

    I missed this in July. Starmer rules out any arrangement with anyone. Be a short stint as minority PM then
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited August 2022

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    But what there are are disproportionate multiplier effects, in particular areas of the economy and society. If the government doesn't foot the bill in the shorter-term, thousands of businesses will be gone, never to return, and milllions will be left destitute.
    Many businesses are affected twice;

    Firstly, by consumers fiscal tightening as a consequence of high domestic energy bills. Labours plan will definitely help in this regard.

    Secondly, business energy costs. I don’t think anyone is talking about capping/subsidising business energy supplies. A lot of businesses are sunk with the current wholesale price as it is.

    May be an idea to be short the UK economy until this blows over. I’m reconsidering my ftse 100 tracker, even though it’s nowhere near as domestic-facing as the 250.

    I was looking at buying a uk residential REIT. There are one or two with very well insulated modern housing units that will surely be able to milk the rents as energy prices go nuts.

    Hmm
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    No, they were intended to provide profit for shareholders. All built by private commercial firms, so far as I understand it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Pulpstar said:

    Having a second vote on brexit before ghe first had been implemented would have been an abomination.
    But we could have one now, as we have left. There's no problem with that and I'd vote to rejoin.
    On the energy I think keeping the price cap to the old level would make sense but with a kicker of much higher unit charges once someone gets past 3000 kwh of leccy or 12000 kwh of gas. Adjust the leccy up for someone on leccy only supply

    Too late. I wouldn't vote to rejoin now. The damage is done, and we would rejoin on vastly inferior terms, if the EU even allowed us back.

    Still it was all worth it we got a Boris Johnson premiership.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Whatever your view of his overall thesis, I really recommend reading Oliver Eagleton's superb account (p74-127) of how Labour moved from its pledge to respect Leave in its 2017 manifesto to the car crash 2nd referendum policy in 2019. Starmer behaved, in my view, disgracefully.

    https://twitter.com/richardmarcj/status/1558507707916849153

    ANYONE who advocated for a 2nd referendum, without enacting the first, is no better than a Trumpite marching on the Capitol to overturn the election

    They should all be hurled out of politics, and never allowed to speak again. Including Starmer

    Besides the immorality of their position, what they espoused was criminally dangerous and stupid. It would have collapsed British democracy overnight. Whyever vote for anything ever again?
    Why do Conservative Governments chase a new mandate every two or three years even when on the one occasion they had a decent little majority?
    Jesus fucking Christ. How hard is this. Seriously

    We had the biggest, probably most important referendum in British history. 36 MILLION people voted, I believe that is the most ever for anything in the UK - and that on an extremely respectable 72% turnout. Almost three quarters of every eligible adult in the entire country. Massive. 17.4 MILLION people voted Leave - the most ever votes cast for any cause or party in the history of the United Kingdom. And they voted because the government, prime minster and civil service of the UK told them: this is it. One vote. Leave or Remain. You choose. We will respect your choice

    Just imagine the chaos, anger and blood-letting that would have resulted, if that vote had been overturned, without honouring it, and we were asked to vote again, to provide the answer our betters wanted. Advocating for a 2nd vote was utter criminal madness. It was a kind of constitutional nihilism

    Anyone that seriously did it should slink away in shame
    It's somewhat ironic that you claim a second vote was an act of "constitutional nihilism" because that's what the unwinding of Brexit (post Brexit) looks like to me.

    As is par for the course you are talking utter bollocks. If the majority voted to remain after a second vote that is democracy in action, and a new mandate has been issued by the voters. Now whether that would have been wise or not is another debate entirely.

    It looks like you are building up a head of steam to a crescendo of unpleasant right wing bigotry later this evening. Best I do slink away in that case.
    The thing is that, if unwinding Brexit ever becomes popular enough, it will become the right thing to do, whenever that happens. We're not at that position right now, it's possible that we never will.

    Had the British public responded to the June 2016 result the way a cat responds to a water pistol, it would have been right and proper to reverse Brexit before enacting it. Let's say that the polling through autumn 2016 to say 2018 had been consistently 70 Remain: 30 Leave. That didn't happpen, but it wasn't totally crazy as a possibility once blank slate Brexit was replaced by a concrete reality.

    And it wouldn't have been a democratic problem, provided a vast majority of the electorate backed that. And whilst that would have annoyed some people a lot, the rest of the country would have been numerous enough to shrug and point to the numbers.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,891
    STORY

    Boris Johnson and his allies are plotting a return to Number 10 before the next election if Liz Truss “implodes” as Prime Minister

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-allies-plotting-return-27733394
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    kle4 said:

    Everyone who uses water must rethink and make sure they use it wisely, the chairman of the body that has declared droughts around England says.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62532620

    'Everyone who uses water'...as in every human being?

    No, everyone. Every bush, tree, blade of grass, rabbit, etc.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    ping said:

    An actual, real policy from Starmer;

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/13/keir-starmer-demands-ban-on-raising-energy-prices

    “The Labour leader, Keir Starmer, is to call for a ban on crippling energy price rises this autumn in a move that would save the average household more than £2,000 a year on gas and electricity bills, the Observer can reveal.

    The demand to freeze the energy price cap at the current £1,971 level – blocking the regulator Ofgem from allowing a huge anticipated rise to around £3,600 in October – will place intense pressure on the Tory leadership candidates Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak to follow suit when one becomes prime minister.”

    He took his time…

    30 million or so households, times £2000 pa. £60 billion takes some finding. It would take a 10p rise in IT to cover it.
  • Carnyx said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    Well not NI from pensioners.
    Still comes out of taxes
    Which your generation do not pay.
    IN other words, mostly Tory voters, members, and people who are ex-members but desperate to rejoin.
    It is upto the political parties to levy NI on pensioners though I have not heard it proposed by any party

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    Yes there is - you get a pension every week.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Pulpstar said:

    Having a second vote on brexit before ghe first had been implemented would have been an abomination.
    But we could have one now, as we have left. There's no problem with that and I'd vote to rejoin.
    On the energy I think keeping the price cap to the old level would make sense but with a kicker of much higher unit charges once someone gets past 3000 kwh of leccy or 12000 kwh of gas. Adjust the leccy up for someone on leccy only supply

    Too late. I wouldn't vote to rejoin now. The damage is done, and we would rejoin on vastly inferior terms, if the EU even allowed us back.

    Still it was all worth it we got a Boris Johnson premiership.
    Historians of the future will wonder at how we were so brutally and repeatedly fucked by A Johnson.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Carnyx said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    Well not NI from pensioners.
    Still comes out of taxes
    Which your generation do not pay.
    IN other words, mostly Tory voters, members, and people who are ex-members but desperate to rejoin.
    It is upto the political parties to levy NI on pensioners though I have not heard it proposed by any party

    How can they levy it on pensioners? It is a job-related tax and pensioners do not work.
  • DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    Yes there is - you get a pension every week.
    I have paid a lifetime of contributions into the pension as has every other pensioner
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Theyve been working this up with economists and everything. And then they just nick Daveys policy that they said was shit a week ago
    Sounds like another Ed Miliband special to me.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Scott_xP said:

    STORY

    Boris Johnson and his allies are plotting a return to Number 10 before the next election if Liz Truss “implodes” as Prime Minister

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-allies-plotting-return-27733394

    Non-story. It was reported weeks ago
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
  • Carnyx said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    Well not NI from pensioners.
    Still comes out of taxes
    Which your generation do not pay.
    IN other words, mostly Tory voters, members, and people who are ex-members but desperate to rejoin.
    It is upto the political parties to levy NI on pensioners though I have not heard it proposed by any party

    How can they levy it on pensioners? It is a job-related tax and pensioners do not work.
    Some pensioners do work and I believe they should pay NI
  • Scott_xP said:

    STORY

    Boris Johnson and his allies are plotting a return to Number 10 before the next election if Liz Truss “implodes” as Prime Minister

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-allies-plotting-return-27733394

    Non-story. It was reported weeks ago
    JRM said today there will be no Johnson comeback
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825
    edited August 2022

    Carnyx said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    Well not NI from pensioners.
    Still comes out of taxes
    Which your generation do not pay.
    IN other words, mostly Tory voters, members, and people who are ex-members but desperate to rejoin.
    It is upto the political parties to levy NI on pensioners though I have not heard it proposed by any party

    Even if they could do such a thing why would they politically when the grey vote is so powerful?

    Party leaders know what they need to do to win elections, even Corbyn made a play for that vote.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Scott_xP said:

    STORY

    Boris Johnson and his allies are plotting a return to Number 10 before the next election if Liz Truss “implodes” as Prime Minister

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-allies-plotting-return-27733394

    Non-story. It was reported weeks ago
    JRM said today there will be no Johnson comeback
    I would not trust JRM to know what day of the week it is. Johnson will do what Johnson wants.
  • DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    Yes there is - you get a pension every week.
    I have paid a lifetime of contributions into the pension as has every other pensioner
    Matthew Parris highlighted the flaw with that argument in his Times piece this morning;

    Ever since I started dealing with the leader of the opposition’s postbag in 1976, I’ve been familiar with the cry, “I haven’t worked and paid taxes all my life, only to have [insert chosen desideratum] taken away.” I longed to reply, “You may well have paid taxes all your life, but not enough, as it now turns out.”
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Carnyx said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    Well not NI from pensioners.
    Still comes out of taxes
    Which your generation do not pay.
    IN other words, mostly Tory voters, members, and people who are ex-members but desperate to rejoin.
    It is upto the political parties to levy NI on pensioners though I have not heard it proposed by any party

    How can they levy it on pensioners? It is a job-related tax and pensioners do not work.
    Some pensioners do work and I believe they should pay NI
    And most do not work.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    Yes there is - you get a pension every week.
    I have paid a lifetime of contributions into the pension as has every other pensioner
    Matthew Parris highlighted the flaw with that argument in his Times piece this morning;

    Ever since I started dealing with the leader of the opposition’s postbag in 1976, I’ve been familiar with the cry, “I haven’t worked and paid taxes all my life, only to have [insert chosen desideratum] taken away.” I longed to reply, “You may well have paid taxes all your life, but not enough, as it now turns out.”
    Yep. Also, it becomes suddenly unfair, nay, unconscionable, to seek to impose new ones or extend the pension age or whatever, but it is never wrong to impose it on others.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,891

    I would not trust JRM to know what day of the week it is. Johnson will do what Johnson wants.

    As in the quote from a former editor, I wouldn't trust BoZo to tell me if it was Monday or Tuesday...
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-lib-dem-supply-confidence-b2125698.html

    I missed this in July. Starmer rules out any arrangement with anyone. Be a short stint as minority PM then

    It's very simple - a lot will depend on the numbers of course. Labour will put forward legislation and presumably the other parties will consider each piece on its merits and vote accordingly. The numbers will dictate how viable this is and how soon we will b facing another election.
  • I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Truss said she would invest in tidal at the last hustings
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    Yes there is - you get a pension every week.
    I have paid a lifetime of contributions into the pension as has every other pensioner
    Today's NI payments are in next week's pension payouts. It is a pipeline, not a saving scheme - at least for state pensions
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Theyve been working this up with economists and everything. And then they just nick Daveys policy that they said was shit a week ago
    Sounds like another Ed Miliband special to me.
    Theyll all be tweeting 'fully costed' on Monday.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,853
    edited August 2022

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I think a wind, solar and battery solution could work for us but....

    Was it Swansea or Cardiff where tidal got blocked by the treasury bean counters ?

    No vision, even old Uncle Joe has more ffsake
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited August 2022

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Truss said she would invest in tidal at the last hustings
    She was also claiming to be relying on certain nuclear reactors that are (a) not approved yet for design purposes; not prorotyped to see if they work; (c) not in series production; (d) do not have sites approved yet.

    Tidal power would be am improvement; just such a shame the governments in which she took such a prominent and carefully photographed part did so little.
  • Scott_xP said:

    I would not trust JRM to know what day of the week it is. Johnson will do what Johnson wants.

    As in the quote from a former editor, I wouldn't trust BoZo to tell me if it was Monday or Tuesday...
    Erm... it's Saturday, @Scott_xP
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Theyve been working this up with economists and everything. And then they just nick Daveys policy that they said was shit a week ago
    Sounds like another Ed Miliband special to me.
    Theyll all be tweeting 'fully costed' on Monday.
    Why wait? If they close all the schools and get rid of all our armed forces it is covered.
  • DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Gravity is not banned in France, but curiously the energy price rises will be held at 4% this year. C'est interesting, n'est-ce-pas ?
    EDF is demanding between 8 and upto 15 billion euros from Macron for the freeze
    Which will be much better for the French economy than small businesses and pensioners paying it.
    Err it comes from the taxes of businesses and pensioners

    There is no free money
    Yes there is - you get a pension every week.
    I have paid a lifetime of contributions into the pension as has every other pensioner
    Today's NI payments are in next week's pension payouts. It is a pipeline, not a saving scheme - at least for state pensions
    I am aware of that but that is the system and I paid all the NI demanded of me through my 47 years in work
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    No, they were intended to provide profit for shareholders. All built by private commercial firms, so far as I understand it.
    The UK's function in modern times seems to be to pipeline as much money and savings as possible to foreign owners and govts.

    We are little better than serfs. Everything we earn goes aboard.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,891
    It's pretty clear from the polling that the main reason Sunak is doing so badly in this race is because he resigned from Johnson's cabinet. https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1558529955977461760
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    stodge said:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-lib-dem-supply-confidence-b2125698.html

    I missed this in July. Starmer rules out any arrangement with anyone. Be a short stint as minority PM then

    It's very simple - a lot will depend on the numbers of course. Labour will put forward legislation and presumably the other parties will consider each piece on its merits and vote accordingly. The numbers will dictate how viable this is and how soon we will b facing another election.
    It also means an election can be forced by Tories plus (say) LDs once it looks seat gain-ish for the LDs to vote no confidence. In the absence of any formal arrangement hes at the mercy of a polling collapse leading to the opposition cashing in en masse. But of course it will depend on how far labour sit in isolation from 322 seats (assuming SF get 7)
  • Pulpstar said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I think a wind, solar and battery solution could work for us but....

    Was it Swansea or Cardiff where tidal got blocked by the treasury bean counters ?

    No vision, even old Uncle Joe has more ffsake
    It was the South Wales scheme but there is also one planned for North Wales and it is time to give them the green light
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Truss said she would invest in tidal at the last hustings
    Truss says a lot of things, mostly for people like you... :wink:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825
    edited August 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    STORY

    Boris Johnson and his allies are plotting a return to Number 10 before the next election if Liz Truss “implodes” as Prime Minister

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-allies-plotting-return-27733394

    Non-story. It was reported weeks ago
    JRM said today there will be no Johnson comeback
    I would not trust JRM to know what day of the week it is.
    He'll have a man to tell him that.

    One of my favourite bits of JRM posturing was upon getting his barely scraping into the Cabinet position and spending his time leaving notes on others' desks, he had a shot of himself at his desk promoted which was enthusiastically talked up by his mates as what an office should look like, lacking a computer at his desk for example.

    Meaning he thinks it is more efficient, and is proud, that he is creating more work for someone else to print things out for him and bring it to his desk rather than just have someone send it to him. That his petty whims are more important.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Its bizarre how underutilised it has been. More Home grown power we could be leveraging to protect against world price surges.
    Prorectionism. Its suddenly sexy again.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,387
    Scott_xP said:

    It's pretty clear from the polling that the main reason Sunak is doing so badly in this race is because he resigned from Johnson's cabinet. https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1558529955977461760

    So the membership are basically voting to continue Johnson and as he is not available the next 'best' thing.

    God it is the GOP all over again.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    No, they were intended to provide profit for shareholders. All built by private commercial firms, so far as I understand it.
    The UK's function in modern times seems to be to pipeline as much money and savings as possible to foreign owners and govts.

    We are little better than serfs. Everything we earn goes aboard.
    This is the price we pay for running a trade deficit for nearly 30 years now. Brown said it didn't matter but he was, of course, completely wrong. We have become a rentier economy with the majority of our assets and wealth creation in foreign hands. Excess consumption has put us in a truly perilous position so of course our politicians are having an auction about who can subsidise the cost of imported fuel the most. It would honestly make you weep.
    It does make me weep.

    Goodnight!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    No, they were intended to provide profit for shareholders. All built by private commercial firms, so far as I understand it.
    With Feed In Tariffs giving them a guaranteed income, as long as their wind speed models are correct.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800

    stodge said:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-lib-dem-supply-confidence-b2125698.html

    I missed this in July. Starmer rules out any arrangement with anyone. Be a short stint as minority PM then

    It's very simple - a lot will depend on the numbers of course. Labour will put forward legislation and presumably the other parties will consider each piece on its merits and vote accordingly. The numbers will dictate how viable this is and how soon we will b facing another election.
    It also means an election can be forced by Tories plus (say) LDs once it looks seat gain-ish for the LDs to vote no confidence. In the absence of any formal arrangement hes at the mercy of a polling collapse leading to the opposition cashing in en masse. But of course it will depend on how far labour sit in isolation from 322 seats (assuming SF get 7)
    I'm less convinced - I don't think there'll be much sentiment for having the Tories back after so long in power. I suspect Starmer can and will rely on the greater antipathy of the minor parties toward the Conservatives so that even if the Conservatives try to take advantage of poor Labour polling they may find their way blocked by other parties.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825
    edited August 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    It's pretty clear from the polling that the main reason Sunak is doing so badly in this race is because he resigned from Johnson's cabinet. https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1558529955977461760

    Wouldn't have been a race without it, but it scuppered him. Predictable, but unfortunate for him. Even many of those who wanted Boris gone probably don't trust a quitter.

    It was ok when Boris quit and constantly undermined his PM though.
  • I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Truss said she would invest in tidal at the last hustings
    Truss says a lot of things, mostly for people like you... :wink:
    Truss is the first politician to publicly support tidal no matter how cynical you want to be
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Its bizarre how underutilised it has been. More Home grown power we could be leveraging to protect against world price surges.
    Prorectionism. Its suddenly sexy again.
    Same with food. Though I fear it is too late in view of the latest news. Periodically, and only months ago, on here, I was being relentlessly lectured how silly I was for being worried about UK food security, when it was much better and much more consonant with free market liberalism to import all our food from Australia etc and fuck the farmers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,473
    edited August 2022
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    There are some very bad taste Man Utd jokes currently working their way around the internet.

    Let’s hope the Glazers know about the football pyramid, and don’t think they bought a “Premier League franchise”.

    What's the difference between a triangle and Man Utd?
    I wouldn't overeact. Man U had 15 shots and De Gea gifted the 1st 2 goals. And it's VERY early days in the season.

    I might have a nibble for Top 4 if the price has gone stupid.
    So you think Man U might finish above one of last years top 5? Which one? Because I can’t see it.
    I think ManU has major dressing room and back room problems as a series of managers have failed, and often ones with good track records elsewhere. SAF is always the spectre in the background.

    Other managers have started badly before their system worked. Arteta is a good example.

    I reckon ManU will make the top 7, though possibly with another manager at the helm.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,387
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Theyve been working this up with economists and everything. And then they just nick Daveys policy that they said was shit a week ago
    Sounds like another Ed Miliband special to me.
    Theyll all be tweeting 'fully costed' on Monday.
    Why wait? If they close all the schools and get rid of all our armed forces it is covered.
    Paying the suppliers not to raise prices is far better than just nationalising them as the problem remains exactly as it was but the state is in charge if you just natioanlise.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Truss said she would invest in tidal at the last hustings
    Truss says a lot of things, mostly for people like you... :wink:
    Truss is the first politician to publicly support tidal no matter how cynical you want to be
    Not true. SNP have been keen on it for ages and others have been in Wales and rUK.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Pulpstar said:

    Having a second vote on brexit before ghe first had been implemented would have been an abomination.
    But we could have one now, as we have left. There's no problem with that and I'd vote to rejoin.
    On the energy I think keeping the price cap to the old level would make sense but with a kicker of much higher unit charges once someone gets past 3000 kwh of leccy or 12000 kwh of gas. Adjust the leccy up for someone on leccy only supply

    Too late. I wouldn't vote to rejoin now. The damage is done, and we would rejoin on vastly inferior terms, if the EU even allowed us back.

    Still it was all worth it we got a Boris Johnson premiership.
    Schengen and the Single Currency aren't inferior terms - they're the best things about the EU!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Scott_xP said:

    STORY

    Boris Johnson and his allies are plotting a return to Number 10 before the next election if Liz Truss “implodes” as Prime Minister

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-allies-plotting-return-27733394

    Non-story. It was reported weeks ago
    JRM said today there will be no Johnson comeback
    That is only 1 datum point. There is still a huge weight of evidence that it is vanishingly unlikely.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,891

    So the membership are basically voting to continue Johnson and as he is not available the next 'best' thing.

    God it is the GOP all over again.

    Which is why he thinks he will come back when she crashes and burns
  • Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Truss said she would invest in tidal at the last hustings
    Truss says a lot of things, mostly for people like you... :wink:
    Truss is the first politician to publicly support tidal no matter how cynical you want to be
    Not true. SNP have been keen on it for ages and others have been in Wales and rUK.
    Have the SNP endorsed tidal and if so I stand corrected
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Theyve been working this up with economists and everything. And then they just nick Daveys policy that they said was shit a week ago
    Sounds like another Ed Miliband special to me.
    Theyll all be tweeting 'fully costed' on Monday.
    Why wait? If they close all the schools and get rid of all our armed forces it is covered.
    Maybe a bold 'the policy is self funding' gambit
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Forgive my ignorance, but….

    What’s the profile of tidal power generation over, say, 24hrs? Would it not need to be paired with batteries (pumped hydro?) to provide effective baseload?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Truss said she would invest in tidal at the last hustings
    Truss says a lot of things, mostly for people like you... :wink:
    Truss is the first politician to publicly support tidal no matter how cynical you want to be
    Not true. SNP have been keen on it for ages and others have been in Wales and rUK.
    Have the SNP endorsed tidal and if so I stand corrected
    HMG too have provided grants in support. Not sure about Mr Drakeford in Wales (not up to date).
  • Scott_xP said:

    It's pretty clear from the polling that the main reason Sunak is doing so badly in this race is because he resigned from Johnson's cabinet. https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1558529955977461760

    So the membership are basically voting to continue Johnson and as he is not available the next 'best' thing.

    God it is the GOP all over again.
    Or Labour in 2016. Though at least they didn't go for Long-Bailey in 2020.

    Following on from that,

    1. Will Truss dare to kick Boris out in the snow to die this autumn?

    2. Will the general public give Truss much of a new leader bounce if she comes to be seen as Boris in a frock? (As opposed to actual Boris, who likes getting his hands and other organs inside other people's frocks.)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,423
    a
    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    With devomax, quite probably
    As @Eabhal asked on the previous thread:

    - “What is devomax? What currently reserved powers would be devolved?”

    Your lack of answer did not go unnoticed.
    It is not for me to answer, it is a PM Starmer and Gordon Brown who would implement it
    Gordon Brown?!? When did he become leader of the Labour Party again?
    Starmer has made clear as PM he would put Gordon Brown in charge of a programme of further devolution
    One for the PB Tories and Stuart.

    " Dumb and Dumber"
    Just going through the list of stuff that could get devolved while retaining a sensible Union (aka devomax), I reckon:

    Universal Credit (etc)
    Illegal drugs
    Betting (eeek)
    Experimenting on animals
    Possibly some more energy stuff? tricky
    Equalities
    Post
    All income taxes (though income tax is largely devolved now)

    That's it really. Anything further would be unworkable, imo.
    I assume if income tax is devolved and they keep all they raise then there will be no capital transfer from the rest of the country and they will be getting a bill for their share of defence and debt servicing etc
    You're forgetting NI, VAT, road tax, petrol tax ...
    Indeed - that's why I specified income taxes (I include NI in that, given there is no actual link to the state pension). I think opening it up to other taxes would be unworkable.

    @Pagan2, I won't bore you with the complex interactions of income tax revenue in Scotland and the block grant from the UK Gov, but that's basically what happens already. Though, of course, Scotland enjoys higher spend per capita compared with elsewhere.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Theyve been working this up with economists and everything. And then they just nick Daveys policy that they said was shit a week ago
    Sounds like another Ed Miliband special to me.
    Theyll all be tweeting 'fully costed' on Monday.
    Why wait? If they close all the schools and get rid of all our armed forces it is covered.
    Paying the suppliers not to raise prices is far better than just nationalising them as the problem remains exactly as it was but the state is in charge if you just natioanlise.
    We need to adapt to a world where energy is much more expensive. The sooner we start doing this the better. If it reduces demand for all the crap we import and improves our carbon neutrality so much the better.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    Interesting piece of research on a mechanism of cognitive exhaustion.

    https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(22)01111-3.pdf
    Behavioral activities that require control over automatic routines typically feel effortful and result in cogni- tive fatigue. Beyond subjective report, cognitive fatigue has been conceived as an inflated cost of cogni- tive control, objectified by more impulsive decisions. However, the origins of such control cost inflation with cognitive work are heavily debated. Here, we suggest a neuro-metabolic account: the cost would relate to the necessity of recycling potentially toxic substances accumulated during cognitive control exertion. We validated this account using magnetic resonance spectroscopy (MRS) to monitor brain me- tabolites throughout an approximate workday, during which two groups of participants performed either high-demand or low-demand cognitive control tasks, interleaved with economic decisions. Choice- related fatigue markers were only present in the high-demand group, with a reduction of pupil dilation during decision-making and a preference shift toward short-delay and little-effort options (a low-cost bias captured using computational modeling). At the end of the day, high-demand cognitive work re- sulted in higher glutamate concentration and glutamate/glutamine diffusion in a cognitive control brain region (lateral prefrontal cortex [lPFC]), relative to low-demand cognitive work and to a reference brain region (primary visual cortex [V1]). Taken together with previous fMRI data, these results support a neuro-metabolic model in which glutamate accumulation triggers a regulation mechanism that makes lPFC activation more costly, explaining why cognitive control is harder to mobilize after a strenuous workday…
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited August 2022
    ping said:

    Forgive my ignorance, but….

    What’s the profile of tidal power generation over, say, 24hrs? Would it not need to be paired with batteries (pumped hydro?) to provide effective baseload?

    The tidal stream goes around the coasts of the UK such that high and low water, so to speak, move around the coast. Ergo they happen at different times in different places. You just build several installations in different places.

    Also - some tidal systems let the water in when the tide is flowing, then impound it and use the power when it is ebbing. Vide the mediaeval/early modern watermill at Freshwater on the Isle of Wight.

    Edit: here's an example.

    https://montymariner.co.uk/tide-stream-charts/
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Theyve been working this up with economists and everything. And then they just nick Daveys policy that they said was shit a week ago
    Sounds like another Ed Miliband special to me.
    Theyll all be tweeting 'fully costed' on Monday.
    Why wait? If they close all the schools and get rid of all our armed forces it is covered.
    Paying the suppliers not to raise prices is far better than just nationalising them as the problem remains exactly as it was but the state is in charge if you just natioanlise.
    We need to adapt to a world where energy is much more expensive. The sooner we start doing this the better. If it reduces demand for all the crap we import and improves our carbon neutrality so much the better.
    So you’re saying Ed Miliband was right, with his “insulate the crap out of everything” policy?

  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Its bizarre how underutilised it has been. More Home grown power we could be leveraging to protect against world price surges.
    Prorectionism. Its suddenly sexy again.
    Same with food. Though I fear it is too late in view of the latest news. Periodically, and only months ago, on here, I was being relentlessly lectured how silly I was for being worried about UK food security, when it was much better and much more consonant with free market liberalism to import all our food from Australia etc and fuck the farmers.
    Surely you should be worried about "Scottish food security". Cut off from rUK you will be eating oats, tatties, soil, thistles and "neeps and pebbles", a warming and traditional dish that has filled the stomach of weirdly stunted Unst kids for centuries
  • Carnyx said:

    ping said:

    Forgive my ignorance, but….

    What’s the profile of tidal power generation over, say, 24hrs? Would it not need to be paired with batteries (pumped hydro?) to provide effective baseload?

    The tidal stream goes around the coasts of the UK such that high and low water, so to speak, move around the coast. Ergo they happen at different times in different places. You just build several installations in different places.

    Also - some tidal systems let the water in when the tide is flowing, then impound it and use the power when it is ebbing. Vide the mediaeval/early modern watermill at Freshwater on the Isle of Wight.
    The Pentland Firth would be a fantastic site for tidal if the technology was available
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,473
    Pulpstar said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I think a wind, solar and battery solution could work for us but....

    Was it Swansea or Cardiff where tidal got blocked by the treasury bean counters ?

    No vision, even old Uncle Joe has more ffsake
    Those treasury bean counters when the Swansea bay scheme got cancelled in 2018 included the Chief Secretary of the Treasury, a certain Liz Truss. Whatever happened to her?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    ping said:

    Forgive my ignorance, but….

    What’s the profile of tidal power generation over, say, 24hrs? Would it not need to be paired with batteries (pumped hydro?) to provide effective baseload?

    Tide varies around the U.K. Plus you can use barrages to then outflow later than the high tide. It’s very doable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825

    Scott_xP said:

    It's pretty clear from the polling that the main reason Sunak is doing so badly in this race is because he resigned from Johnson's cabinet. https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1558529955977461760

    So the membership are basically voting to continue Johnson and as he is not available the next 'best' thing.

    God it is the GOP all over again.
    Or Labour in 2016. Though at least they didn't go for Long-Bailey in 2020.

    Following on from that,

    1. Will Truss dare to kick Boris out in the snow to die this autumn?

    2. Will the general public give Truss much of a new leader bounce if she comes to be seen as Boris in a frock? (As opposed to actual Boris, who likes getting his hands and other organs inside other people's frocks.)
    Truss has been clear, I believe, that Boris going is an error (and implicitly that her own solutions to problems different from his are not as good as his solutions) - she has certainly described it as a mistake to reject him in the way that led to his losing the leadership.

    That assessment included encompassing the 'mistakes' that he himself made (saying they were not sufficient to reject him). Accordingly, if there are committee findings against him expect her to call it a witchhunt, moan about the process, about how we should move on as he is not PM anymore, or just outright seek to ignore it.
  • Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I think a wind, solar and battery solution could work for us but....

    Was it Swansea or Cardiff where tidal got blocked by the treasury bean counters ?

    No vision, even old Uncle Joe has more ffsake
    Those treasury bean counters when the Swansea bay scheme got cancelled in 2018 included the Chief Secretary of the Treasury, a certain Liz Truss. Whatever happened to her?
    The energy situation has changed dramatically since 2018
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Its bizarre how underutilised it has been. More Home grown power we could be leveraging to protect against world price surges.
    Prorectionism. Its suddenly sexy again.
    Same with food. Though I fear it is too late in view of the latest news. Periodically, and only months ago, on here, I was being relentlessly lectured how silly I was for being worried about UK food security, when it was much better and much more consonant with free market liberalism to import all our food from Australia etc and fuck the farmers.
    Surely you should be worried about "Scottish food security". Cut off from rUK you will be eating oats, tatties, soil, thistles and "neeps and pebbles", a warming and traditional dish that has filled the stomach of weirdly stunted Unst kids for centuries
    There's not a lot wrong with a diet based on porridge, potatoes, swedes, herring and mutton, bread, and garden vegetables.

    The point does need t be made that Scotland is overall selfsufficient in food, unlike rUK.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Sweden votes in four weeks and it seems Sifo will be polling regularly for Svenska Dagbladet.

    The latest numbers (changes from 2018):

    Social Democrats: 31.3% (+2.8)
    Moderates: 19.2% (-0.6)
    Sweden Democrats: 17.3% (-0.2)
    Left: 8.0% (nc)
    Christian Democrats: 6.7% (+0.4)
    Liberals: 5.6% (+0.1)
    Centre: 5.3% (-3.3)
    Greens: 4.5% (+0.1)

    We have our two blocs (as we always do) - the centre-left consisting of Social Democrats, Left, Green and Centre are on 49.1% (-0.2) and the centre-right bloc of Moderates, Sweden Democrats, Christian Democrats and Liberals are on 48.8% (-0.5) so a dead heat to all intents and purposes.

    Th 2018 result split the 349 seat Riksdag 175-174 in favour of the centre-left bloc so this is going to be very close again. Perhaps the centre-left might extend their lead by a couple of seats on these numbers but there's a long way to go.

    So does Italy and there Brothers of Italy still leads most of the latest polls

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2022_Italian_general_election
    The "Brothers of Italy" - the heart doesn't leap at the sound of that.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,891
    Carnyx said:

    There's not a lot wrong with a diet based on porridge, potatoes, swedes, herring and mutton, bread, and garden vegetables.

    The point does need t be made that Scotland is overall selfsufficient in food, unlike rUK.

    Farmers may have to stop growing potatoes because of rising temperatures in Scotland, projections suggest.

    The James Hutton Institute, the respected scientific research centre in Dundee, has calculated that extreme weather will impose radical changes to farming


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/climate-change-threatens-potatoes-in-scotland-n3pc3kcbp
  • Eabhal said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    With devomax, quite probably
    As @Eabhal asked on the previous thread:

    - “What is devomax? What currently reserved powers would be devolved?”

    Your lack of answer did not go unnoticed.
    It is not for me to answer, it is a PM Starmer and Gordon Brown who would implement it
    Gordon Brown?!? When did he become leader of the Labour Party again?
    Starmer has made clear as PM he would put Gordon Brown in charge of a programme of further devolution
    One for the PB Tories and Stuart.

    " Dumb and Dumber"
    Just going through the list of stuff that could get devolved while retaining a sensible Union (aka devomax), I reckon:

    Universal Credit (etc)
    Illegal drugs
    Betting (eeek)
    Experimenting on animals
    Possibly some more energy stuff? tricky
    Equalities
    Post
    All income taxes (though income tax is largely devolved now)

    That's it really. Anything further would be unworkable, imo.
    I assume if income tax is devolved and they keep all they raise then there will be no capital transfer from the rest of the country and they will be getting a bill for their share of defence and debt servicing etc
    You're forgetting NI, VAT, road tax, petrol tax ...
    Indeed - that's why I specified income taxes (I include NI in that, given there is no actual link to the state pension). I think opening it up to other taxes would be unworkable.

    @Pagan2, I won't bore you with the complex interactions of income tax revenue in Scotland and the block grant from the UK Gov, but that's basically what happens already. Though, of course, Scotland enjoys higher spend per capita compared with elsewhere.
    But there is a link between NI and pensions, in that you need to pay NI to qualify for the state pension.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    edited August 2022
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-lib-dem-supply-confidence-b2125698.html

    I missed this in July. Starmer rules out any arrangement with anyone. Be a short stint as minority PM then

    It's very simple - a lot will depend on the numbers of course. Labour will put forward legislation and presumably the other parties will consider each piece on its merits and vote accordingly. The numbers will dictate how viable this is and how soon we will b facing another election.
    It also means an election can be forced by Tories plus (say) LDs once it looks seat gain-ish for the LDs to vote no confidence. In the absence of any formal arrangement hes at the mercy of a polling collapse leading to the opposition cashing in en masse. But of course it will depend on how far labour sit in isolation from 322 seats (assuming SF get 7)
    I'm less convinced - I don't think there'll be much sentiment for having the Tories back after so long in power. I suspect Starmer can and will rely on the greater antipathy of the minor parties toward the Conservatives so that even if the Conservatives try to take advantage of poor Labour polling they may find their way blocked by other parties.
    Yeah i see that logic, but lets say Starmer is PM of a minoroty government with 280 seats, the SNP have 45, Tories 270 Lib Dems 25 with NI, Greens, a couple of indies and Plaid scarfing the rest.
    Things are pretty bleak economically 18 months in and con lead but not on a high score Lab are tanking with LDs polling 20 plus again. SNP abstain on a Vonc, surely the LDs are going to cash in and try for a big seat boost?
  • i think I am right in saying that the predicted energy bills are based on historical consumption multiplied by predicted £ per kWh for electricity and gas. The result being that predicted energy bills that will be so high that people will have to choose between "heat or eat", i.e your only option will be to starve or to freeze to death.
    However, before the general introduction of 21 deg C central heating no one froze to death because during what were much colder winters they did not heat the whole house and they wore vests and jumpers and thicker clothing. Perhaps if we did that again we might find that our energy bills were much reduced and we could afford to eat!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Its bizarre how underutilised it has been. More Home grown power we could be leveraging to protect against world price surges.
    Prorectionism. Its suddenly sexy again.
    Same with food. Though I fear it is too late in view of the latest news. Periodically, and only months ago, on here, I was being relentlessly lectured how silly I was for being worried about UK food security, when it was much better and much more consonant with free market liberalism to import all our food from Australia etc and fuck the farmers.
    Surely you should be worried about "Scottish food security". Cut off from rUK you will be eating oats, tatties, soil, thistles and "neeps and pebbles", a warming and traditional dish that has filled the stomach of weirdly stunted Unst kids for centuries
    There's not a lot wrong with a diet based on porridge, potatoes, swedes, herring and mutton, bread, and garden vegetables.

    The point does need t be made that Scotland is overall selfsufficient in food, unlike rUK.
    No avocados? The horror!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Scott_xP said:

    Carnyx said:

    There's not a lot wrong with a diet based on porridge, potatoes, swedes, herring and mutton, bread, and garden vegetables.

    The point does need t be made that Scotland is overall selfsufficient in food, unlike rUK.

    Farmers may have to stop growing potatoes because of rising temperatures in Scotland, projections suggest.

    The James Hutton Institute, the respected scientific research centre in Dundee, has calculated that extreme weather will impose radical changes to farming


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/climate-change-threatens-potatoes-in-scotland-n3pc3kcbp
    In 60 years. And where will rUK be by then?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,473
    edited August 2022

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I think a wind, solar and battery solution could work for us but....

    Was it Swansea or Cardiff where tidal got blocked by the treasury bean counters ?

    No vision, even old Uncle Joe has more ffsake
    Those treasury bean counters when the Swansea bay scheme got cancelled in 2018 included the Chief Secretary of the Treasury, a certain Liz Truss. Whatever happened to her?
    The energy situation has changed dramatically since 2018
    Not that much, at least in terms of energy resilience, carbon neutrality and autonomy.

    It certainly was the sort of short termist saving that lacks strategic vision that we have so gotten used to in this country.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    ping said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ping said:
    That will help the owner of a 6 bedroom mansion a lot more than the owner of a 1 bedroom flat. Is that what he wants?

    I assume the plan also includes nationalising all the providers and rationing supply.
    Presumably his next policy will be to decree that gravity in the UK will be reduced to 8.8m/s2 so that those who are overweight feel better about themselves?
    Theyve been working this up with economists and everything. And then they just nick Daveys policy that they said was shit a week ago
    Sounds like another Ed Miliband special to me.
    Theyll all be tweeting 'fully costed' on Monday.
    Why wait? If they close all the schools and get rid of all our armed forces it is covered.
    Paying the suppliers not to raise prices is far better than just nationalising them as the problem remains exactly as it was but the state is in charge if you just natioanlise.
    We need to adapt to a world where energy is much more expensive. The sooner we start doing this the better. If it reduces demand for all the crap we import and improves our carbon neutrality so much the better.
    So you’re saying Ed Miliband was right, with his “insulate the crap out of everything” policy?

    Yes, he is right about that. Stopped clocks etc but he is right.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    ...

    Pulpstar said:

    Having a second vote on brexit before ghe first had been implemented would have been an abomination.
    But we could have one now, as we have left. There's no problem with that and I'd vote to rejoin.
    On the energy I think keeping the price cap to the old level would make sense but with a kicker of much higher unit charges once someone gets past 3000 kwh of leccy or 12000 kwh of gas. Adjust the leccy up for someone on leccy only supply

    Too late. I wouldn't vote to rejoin now. The damage is done, and we would rejoin on vastly inferior terms, if the EU even allowed us back.

    Still it was all worth it we got a Boris Johnson premiership.
    Schengen and the Single Currency aren't inferior terms - they're the best things about the EU!
    We can negotiate FOM and SM without rejoining. Whether in twenty or thirty years the UK decides it would like to take closer ties any further that is not something that will concern me.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,423

    Eabhal said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    With devomax, quite probably
    As @Eabhal asked on the previous thread:

    - “What is devomax? What currently reserved powers would be devolved?”

    Your lack of answer did not go unnoticed.
    It is not for me to answer, it is a PM Starmer and Gordon Brown who would implement it
    Gordon Brown?!? When did he become leader of the Labour Party again?
    Starmer has made clear as PM he would put Gordon Brown in charge of a programme of further devolution
    One for the PB Tories and Stuart.

    " Dumb and Dumber"
    Just going through the list of stuff that could get devolved while retaining a sensible Union (aka devomax), I reckon:

    Universal Credit (etc)
    Illegal drugs
    Betting (eeek)
    Experimenting on animals
    Possibly some more energy stuff? tricky
    Equalities
    Post
    All income taxes (though income tax is largely devolved now)

    That's it really. Anything further would be unworkable, imo.
    I assume if income tax is devolved and they keep all they raise then there will be no capital transfer from the rest of the country and they will be getting a bill for their share of defence and debt servicing etc
    You're forgetting NI, VAT, road tax, petrol tax ...
    Indeed - that's why I specified income taxes (I include NI in that, given there is no actual link to the state pension). I think opening it up to other taxes would be unworkable.

    @Pagan2, I won't bore you with the complex interactions of income tax revenue in Scotland and the block grant from the UK Gov, but that's basically what happens already. Though, of course, Scotland enjoys higher spend per capita compared with elsewhere.
    But there is a link between NI and pensions, in that you need to pay NI to qualify for the state pension.
    Sure, but there is no "pot". That can be swept aside by some legislation.

    (Ducks for cover from irate pensioners and Nats...)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,473

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Its bizarre how underutilised it has been. More Home grown power we could be leveraging to protect against world price surges.
    Prorectionism. Its suddenly sexy again.
    Same with food. Though I fear it is too late in view of the latest news. Periodically, and only months ago, on here, I was being relentlessly lectured how silly I was for being worried about UK food security, when it was much better and much more consonant with free market liberalism to import all our food from Australia etc and fuck the farmers.
    Surely you should be worried about "Scottish food security". Cut off from rUK you will be eating oats, tatties, soil, thistles and "neeps and pebbles", a warming and traditional dish that has filled the stomach of weirdly stunted Unst kids for centuries
    There's not a lot wrong with a diet based on porridge, potatoes, swedes, herring and mutton, bread, and garden vegetables.

    The point does need t be made that Scotland is overall selfsufficient in food, unlike rUK.
    No avocados? The horror!
    Give global warming a bit of time...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Its bizarre how underutilised it has been. More Home grown power we could be leveraging to protect against world price surges.
    Prorectionism. Its suddenly sexy again.
    Same with food. Though I fear it is too late in view of the latest news. Periodically, and only months ago, on here, I was being relentlessly lectured how silly I was for being worried about UK food security, when it was much better and much more consonant with free market liberalism to import all our food from Australia etc and fuck the farmers.
    I agree. I'm genuinely surprised the benefits of brexit brigade havent jumped all over protectionism
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-lib-dem-supply-confidence-b2125698.html

    I missed this in July. Starmer rules out any arrangement with anyone. Be a short stint as minority PM then

    It's very simple - a lot will depend on the numbers of course. Labour will put forward legislation and presumably the other parties will consider each piece on its merits and vote accordingly. The numbers will dictate how viable this is and how soon we will b facing another election.
    It also means an election can be forced by Tories plus (say) LDs once it looks seat gain-ish for the LDs to vote no confidence. In the absence of any formal arrangement hes at the mercy of a polling collapse leading to the opposition cashing in en masse. But of course it will depend on how far labour sit in isolation from 322 seats (assuming SF get 7)
    I'm less convinced - I don't think there'll be much sentiment for having the Tories back after so long in power. I suspect Starmer can and will rely on the greater antipathy of the minor parties toward the Conservatives so that even if the Conservatives try to take advantage of poor Labour polling they may find their way blocked by other parties.
    Yeah i see that logic, but lets say Starmer is PM of a minoroty government with 280 seats, the SNP have 45, Tories 270 Lib Dems 25 with NI, Greens, a couple of indies and Plaid scarfing the rest.
    Things are pretty bleak economically 18 months in and con lead but not on a high score Lab are tanking with LDs polling 20 plus again. SNP abstain on a Vonc, surely the LDs are going to cash in and try for a big seat boost?
    The LDs would then have more seats but zero influence with a Tory majority government. Better for them to keep getting concessions from Labour so that some of their ideas make it into legislation.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,423
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Its bizarre how underutilised it has been. More Home grown power we could be leveraging to protect against world price surges.
    Prorectionism. Its suddenly sexy again.
    Same with food. Though I fear it is too late in view of the latest news. Periodically, and only months ago, on here, I was being relentlessly lectured how silly I was for being worried about UK food security, when it was much better and much more consonant with free market liberalism to import all our food from Australia etc and fuck the farmers.
    Surely you should be worried about "Scottish food security". Cut off from rUK you will be eating oats, tatties, soil, thistles and "neeps and pebbles", a warming and traditional dish that has filled the stomach of weirdly stunted Unst kids for centuries
    There's not a lot wrong with a diet based on porridge, potatoes, swedes, herring and mutton, bread, and garden vegetables.

    The point does need t be made that Scotland is overall selfsufficient in food, unlike rUK.
    Huh, is that true? I would have thought our lack of arable land would make it a struggle. Though I suppose a small population + massive land and coastline = excess calories, even if it's hard work to produce them.

    (Goes on a wikipedia deep dive)
  • Truss to look at cancelling the £400 energy discount to the wealthy and provide more help for those needing it
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    Scott_xP said:

    Carnyx said:

    There's not a lot wrong with a diet based on porridge, potatoes, swedes, herring and mutton, bread, and garden vegetables.

    The point does need t be made that Scotland is overall selfsufficient in food, unlike rUK.

    Farmers may have to stop growing potatoes because of rising temperatures in Scotland, projections suggest.

    The James Hutton Institute, the respected scientific research centre in Dundee, has calculated that extreme weather will impose radical changes to farming


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/climate-change-threatens-potatoes-in-scotland-n3pc3kcbp
    How does that work then? They grow in the Channel Islands now, hence Jersey Royals. Pretty sure that’s warmer than Scotland on average. I call bullshit.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    edited August 2022

    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-lib-dem-supply-confidence-b2125698.html

    I missed this in July. Starmer rules out any arrangement with anyone. Be a short stint as minority PM then

    It's very simple - a lot will depend on the numbers of course. Labour will put forward legislation and presumably the other parties will consider each piece on its merits and vote accordingly. The numbers will dictate how viable this is and how soon we will b facing another election.
    It also means an election can be forced by Tories plus (say) LDs once it looks seat gain-ish for the LDs to vote no confidence. In the absence of any formal arrangement hes at the mercy of a polling collapse leading to the opposition cashing in en masse. But of course it will depend on how far labour sit in isolation from 322 seats (assuming SF get 7)
    I'm less convinced - I don't think there'll be much sentiment for having the Tories back after so long in power. I suspect Starmer can and will rely on the greater antipathy of the minor parties toward the Conservatives so that even if the Conservatives try to take advantage of poor Labour polling they may find their way blocked by other parties.
    Yeah i see that logic, but lets say Starmer is PM of a minoroty government with 280 seats, the SNP have 45, Tories 270 Lib Dems 25 with NI, Greens, a couple of indies and Plaid scarfing the rest.
    Things are pretty bleak economically 18 months in and con lead but not on a high score Lab are tanking with LDs polling 20 plus again. SNP abstain on a Vonc, surely the LDs are going to cash in and try for a big seat boost?
    The LDs would then have more seats but zero influence with a Tory majority government. Better for them to keep getting concessions from Labour so that some of their ideas make it into legislation.
    But would be much better placed for the sort of breakthrough that brief I agree with Nick moment teased
    Theyd need to consider what they might 'get' in the 2 to 3 years left of the parliament versus possibly losing the poll surge they were enjoying.
    25 seats and a few concessions, maybe, versus perhaps 65 seats and a Tory majority....
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
     

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Its bizarre how underutilised it has been. More Home grown power we could be leveraging to protect against world price surges.
    Prorectionism. Its suddenly sexy again.
    Same with food. Though I fear it is too late in view of the latest news. Periodically, and only months ago, on here, I was being relentlessly lectured how silly I was for being worried about UK food security, when it was much better and much more consonant with free market liberalism to import all our food from Australia etc and fuck the farmers.
    Surely you should be worried about "Scottish food security". Cut off from rUK you will be eating oats, tatties, soil, thistles and "neeps and pebbles", a warming and traditional dish that has filled the stomach of weirdly stunted Unst kids for centuries
    There's not a lot wrong with a diet based on porridge, potatoes, swedes, herring and mutton, bread, and garden vegetables.

    The point does need t be made that Scotland is overall selfsufficient in food, unlike rUK.
    No avocados? The horror!
    Not heard of the Scottish avocado? There's at least one on this site.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    Pulpstar said:

    Having a second vote on brexit before ghe first had been implemented would have been an abomination.
    But we could have one now, as we have left. There's no problem with that and I'd vote to rejoin.
    On the energy I think keeping the price cap to the old level would make sense but with a kicker of much higher unit charges once someone gets past 3000 kwh of leccy or 12000 kwh of gas. Adjust the leccy up for someone on leccy only supply

    Too late. I wouldn't vote to rejoin now. The damage is done, and we would rejoin on vastly inferior terms, if the EU even allowed us back.

    Still it was all worth it we got a Boris Johnson premiership.
    No, I wouldn't. We'd look such utter plonkers. A National Humiliation that I'm just enough of a Patriot to recoil from. Need to ease back over many years to close pragmatic alignment and cooperation. Then who knows. It's an uncertain world.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Its bizarre how underutilised it has been. More Home grown power we could be leveraging to protect against world price surges.
    Prorectionism. Its suddenly sexy again.
    Same with food. Though I fear it is too late in view of the latest news. Periodically, and only months ago, on here, I was being relentlessly lectured how silly I was for being worried about UK food security, when it was much better and much more consonant with free market liberalism to import all our food from Australia etc and fuck the farmers.
    Surely you should be worried about "Scottish food security". Cut off from rUK you will be eating oats, tatties, soil, thistles and "neeps and pebbles", a warming and traditional dish that has filled the stomach of weirdly stunted Unst kids for centuries
    There's not a lot wrong with a diet based on porridge, potatoes, swedes, herring and mutton, bread, and garden vegetables.

    The point does need t be made that Scotland is overall selfsufficient in food, unlike rUK.
    No avocados? The horror!
    I am sure that Edinburgh would starve without quinoa.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    With devomax, quite probably
    As @Eabhal asked on the previous thread:

    - “What is devomax? What currently reserved powers would be devolved?”

    Your lack of answer did not go unnoticed.
    It is not for me to answer, it is a PM Starmer and Gordon Brown who would implement it
    Gordon Brown?!? When did he become leader of the Labour Party again?
    Starmer has made clear as PM he would put Gordon Brown in charge of a programme of further devolution
    One for the PB Tories and Stuart.

    " Dumb and Dumber"
    Just going through the list of stuff that could get devolved while retaining a sensible Union (aka devomax), I reckon:

    Universal Credit (etc)
    Illegal drugs
    Betting (eeek)
    Experimenting on animals
    Possibly some more energy stuff? tricky
    Equalities
    Post
    All income taxes (though income tax is largely devolved now)

    That's it really. Anything further would be unworkable, imo.
    I assume if income tax is devolved and they keep all they raise then there will be no capital transfer from the rest of the country and they will be getting a bill for their share of defence and debt servicing etc
    You're forgetting NI, VAT, road tax, petrol tax ...
    Indeed - that's why I specified income taxes (I include NI in that, given there is no actual link to the state pension). I think opening it up to other taxes would be unworkable.

    @Pagan2, I won't bore you with the complex interactions of income tax revenue in Scotland and the block grant from the UK Gov, but that's basically what happens already. Though, of course, Scotland enjoys higher spend per capita compared with elsewhere.
    But there is a link between NI and pensions, in that you need to pay NI to qualify for the state pension.
    Sure, but there is no "pot". That can be swept aside by some legislation.

    (Ducks for cover from irate pensioners and Nats...)
    Quite right. Interestingly, it's pretty much the Tory Party voters who would be most outraged at that change to the certainties of a lifetime.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    edited August 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    I thought all those windmills that litter the UK's coast were supposed to provide cheaper energy? It does not seem to be working out that way.

    Tidal. We are an island. Tidal ffs, invest to the max in tidal power
    I completely agree with you, but for some reason no govt will touch tidal.
    Its bizarre how underutilised it has been. More Home grown power we could be leveraging to protect against world price surges.
    Prorectionism. Its suddenly sexy again.
    Same with food. Though I fear it is too late in view of the latest news. Periodically, and only months ago, on here, I was being relentlessly lectured how silly I was for being worried about UK food security, when it was much better and much more consonant with free market liberalism to import all our food from Australia etc and fuck the farmers.
    Surely you should be worried about "Scottish food security". Cut off from rUK you will be eating oats, tatties, soil, thistles and "neeps and pebbles", a warming and traditional dish that has filled the stomach of weirdly stunted Unst kids for centuries
    There's not a lot wrong with a diet based on porridge, potatoes, swedes, herring and mutton, bread, and garden vegetables.

    The point does need t be made that Scotland is overall selfsufficient in food, unlike rUK.
    But that's only because no one wants to live in the turgid, sordid, midgey toilet that is Scotland (especially under the Nats). It's like saying "Greenland is self sufficient in food", Well, er, yeah, because you have 2 million tons of salmon but you have a population of 7,000 and they are all drunk because of the ghastly climate and permanent, suicidal gloom. And the shit football

    It's like saying "in Saudi Arabia petrol is 20p a gallon"! Come and live here! Driving is cheap! We cut off hands!

This discussion has been closed.