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How’s Truss going to do against Starmer and vice versa? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,163
edited August 2022 in General
imageHow’s Truss going to do against Starmer and vice versa? – politicalbetting.com

The most interesting aspect of UK politics over the next few months will be seeing how the new Tory leader and Prime Minister, Liz Truss, does against Keir Starmer and vice versa. Their first PMQs is going to be a must watch.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    He's a gammon. End of.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    I think debating with Sunak has definitely toughened Truss up and made her faster on her feet. Whether that is enough given the choices she has to make and the inheritence that she is receiving remains to be seen.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    Course it could be that Brentford are very very good. They got a point at Leicester last weekend after all.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    In many ways this second half from United is even worse.
    Brentford just sitting back. And still nowt created whatsoever.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Truss is underrated and Starmer is overrated.

    However, the scale of the mountain of excrement about to hit the fan makes the personal qualities of the combatants nearly irrelevant.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    Starmer should be more like 66% imo to be PM after the GE. But anyway, smug city because I have £100 on at 3/1.

    Also anxious city because the bet is with 'long time no see unless he's back with a new name' Isam. Which I don't think he is.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    kinabalu said:

    Starmer should be more like 66% imo to be PM after the GE. But anyway, smug city because I have £100 on at 3/1.

    Also anxious city because the bet is with 'long time no see unless he's back with a new name' Isam. Which I don't think he is.

    “Returnees” are super-easy to spot (cf Sean version 27). I haven’t seen Sam I’m afraid.
  • Mike

    Add me to the list of people who think Starmer underrated.

    By the time of the next election voters may be crying out for a bit of boring competence and even his critics accept that's the minimum he offers.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Mike

    Add me to the list of people who think Starmer underrated.

    By the time of the next election voters may be crying out for a bit of boring competence and even his critics accept that's the minimum he offers.

    Lab Maj drifting as we speak, now out to 4.6

    Still appalling value.

    If voters are “crying out” for the dud, their voices are gey muffled.
  • Stuart.

    'By the time of the next election.'

    Got it?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,635
    Whatever your view of his overall thesis, I really recommend reading Oliver Eagleton's superb account (p74-127) of how Labour moved from its pledge to respect Leave in its 2017 manifesto to the car crash 2nd referendum policy in 2019. Starmer behaved, in my view, disgracefully.

    https://twitter.com/richardmarcj/status/1558507707916849153
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Whatever your view of his overall thesis, I really recommend reading Oliver Eagleton's superb account (p74-127) of how Labour moved from its pledge to respect Leave in its 2017 manifesto to the car crash 2nd referendum policy in 2019. Starmer behaved, in my view, disgracefully.

    https://twitter.com/richardmarcj/status/1558507707916849153

    If, as per the title of the book, The Starmer Project is a journey to the right, presumably that would still take the, much closer to the political centre.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    dixiedean said:

    In many ways this second half from United is even worse.
    Brentford just sitting back. And still nowt created whatsoever.

    It's all the running along the edge of the box, "beating" players but never getting a shot away or any threat followed by the inevitable pass back that is genuinely making me miserable.
  • ping said:
    Yes. They make up the numbers. Quite literally.

    Let’s get back to good old honest raw numbers. We asked 2,000 people and x said this, y said this and z said this. No fucking bollocks.
    "100% of people believe answering opinion polls is a good use of their time, researchers find".
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    There are some very bad taste Man Utd jokes currently working their way around the internet.

    Let’s hope the Glazers know about the football pyramid, and don’t think they bought a “Premier League franchise”.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Stuart.

    'By the time of the next election.'

    Got it?

    Yes, I appreciated your qualification. I do actually read PBers posts.

    Let me respond this way: the Year of next UK GE market presents an outstanding opportunity.

    Truss has one chance, and one chance only. She needs to go hard and go early. A whirlwind. Con Maj 1 would be an astonishing success. I think she can do it.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    ping said:
    Yes. They make up the numbers. Quite literally.

    Let’s get back to good old honest raw numbers. We asked 2,000 people and x said this, y said this and z said this. No fucking bollocks.
    "100% of people believe answering opinion polls is a good use of their time, researchers find".
    In that case, 100% of people are idiots.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Man Utd bottom of the table. Just rejoice at that news
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,286

    Stuart.

    'By the time of the next election.'

    Got it?

    Yes, I appreciated your qualification. I do actually read PBers posts.

    Let me respond this way: the Year of next UK GE market presents an outstanding opportunity.

    Truss has one chance, and one chance only. She needs to go hard and go early. A whirlwind. Con Maj 1 would be an astonishing success. I think she can do it.
    Thing is going from a majority of 80 to a majority of 1 in an election two years early would be a seen as a disaster for Truss and Con.

    So she'll do what Brown, Major and Callaghan did and wait until the last possible moment in the hope something turns up.

    I expect a January 2025 election and a small Labour majority government to be the result.
  • DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Look, last time Manchester United lost the first two matches of the season was 1992/93 and that season didn't turn out too badly for the United?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Look, last time Manchester United lost the first two matches of the season was 1992/93 and that season didn't turn out too badly for the United?
    They've got the prems other joke team next week.
  • What is Erik Ten Hag most famous for?

    Being more Spursy against Spurs in a Champions League final.

    That's not what Manchester United need.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Yes.
    Most streets don't have a number 4. Apartment buildings seldom have a fourth floor.
    A hugely important part of Taiwanese elections is the random draw of each candidate's number, which appears on all adverts and ballot paper.
    Number 4 is considered extremely inauspicious.
    However. You should be worried about the number 20.
    That's your position.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    edited August 2022
    Sandpit said:

    There are some very bad taste Man Utd jokes currently working their way around the internet.

    Let’s hope the Glazers know about the football pyramid, and don’t think they bought a “Premier League franchise”.

    Man U supporters have every reason to be aware that other leagues and divisions are available, having had a look at one as recently as 1975. Arsenal supporters however are only dimly aware, from myth and legend told by great great grandparents, that such things exist.

    I still, 103 years later, start every season with the first aim that they are not relegated. It has worked every time so far.

    Arsenal, Everton and the queen: three in the top flight all my life.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Man U need to consider Big Sam, hes got one last relegation struggle in him
    Cristiano knew, just like Fergie knew, he wanted out badly
  • Man Utd bottom of the table. Just rejoice at that news

    Exactly where they deserve to be
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    Sandpit said:

    There are some very bad taste Man Utd jokes currently working their way around the internet.

    Let’s hope the Glazers know about the football pyramid, and don’t think they bought a “Premier League franchise”.

    There'll be tears right across China tonight.
  • Party insiders say two-thirds of Tory members have voted, with turnout only expected to be about 75 per cent in total. Internal estimates put Truss ahead with 66 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/aboard-his-ghost-ship-government-johnson-is-bored-and-the-ministers-are-mutinous-pbhrb5rmz
  • ping said:
    Yes. They make up the numbers. Quite literally.

    Let’s get back to good old honest raw numbers. We asked 2,000 people and x said this, y said this and z said this. No fucking bollocks.
    "100% of people believe answering opinion polls is a good use of their time, researchers find".
    In that case, 100% of people are idiots.
    Or 1% of people are, and the 99% of people who think answering polls is a waste of time didn't answer the poll. But hey, raw numbers!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2022
    I think Starmer will secretly be pleased he will have to face Liz Truss, who is just as dull as him, rather than the more charismatic Boris or Rishi. 9 times out of ten the more charismatic party leader wins UK general elections

    Not only that, Truss is indeed running on the most hardline rightwing platform of any Tory leader since IDS, despite her liberal past and previous support for Remain. However both Truss and Starmer are serious and hardworking so we will see what happens.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    GIN1138 said:

    Stuart.

    'By the time of the next election.'

    Got it?

    Yes, I appreciated your qualification. I do actually read PBers posts.

    Let me respond this way: the Year of next UK GE market presents an outstanding opportunity.

    Truss has one chance, and one chance only. She needs to go hard and go early. A whirlwind. Con Maj 1 would be an astonishing success. I think she can do it.
    Thing is going from a majority of 80 to a majority of 1 in an election two years early would be a seen as a disaster for Truss and Con.

    So she'll do what Brown, Major and Callaghan did and wait until the last possible moment in the hope something turns up.

    I expect a January 2025 election and a small Labour majority government to be the result.
    Lab Maj? You’re a brave man. What’s your stake?

    Assuming SLab MPs = max 5 (copyright CHB), and Welsh Labour sweeping the board, how the hell is Starmer going to get to Maj?? Have you perused the list of English seats he’d need to gain? It is gargantuan.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    Sandpit said:

    There are some very bad taste Man Utd jokes currently working their way around the internet.

    Let’s hope the Glazers know about the football pyramid, and don’t think they bought a “Premier League franchise”.

    What's the difference between a triangle and Man Utd?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Man Utd bottom of the table. Just rejoice at that news

    Exactly where they deserve to be
    They are lower than the foulest belly crawlers. Maguire must be the worst footballer in the prem by a distance
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Manchester United Football Club

    There's a trades description offence right there.
    Well, the Hundred is called 'cricket.'
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    I think Starmer will secretly be pleased he will have to face Liz Truss, who is just as dull as him, rather than the more charismatic Boris or Rishi. 9 times out of ten the more charismatic party leader wins UK general elections

    Not only that, Truss is indeed running on the most hardline rightwing platform of any Tory leader since IDS, despite her liberal past and previous support for Remain. However both Truss and Starmer are serious and hardworking so we will see what happens.

    Truss = dull

    Ho ho.

    If there’s anything English politics is going to be, it’s not “dull”.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD said:

    I think Starmer will secretly be pleased he will have to face Liz Truss, who is just as dull as him, rather than the more charismatic Boris or Rishi. 9 times out of ten the more charismatic party leader wins UK general elections

    Not only that, Truss is indeed running on the most hardline rightwing platform of any Tory leader since IDS, despite her liberal past and previous support for Remain. However both Truss and Starmer are serious and hardworking so we will see what happens.

    Truss = dull

    Ho ho.

    If there’s anything English politics is going to be, it’s not “dull”.
    Rishi charismatic. Wow.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited August 2022
    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    The height of absurdity. The director is tangling himself in impossibly illogical knots. You can’t be both pro-free speech and then engage in cancel culture.

    He should have said “free speech has limits” or been brutally honest and said “I don’t agree with this, but we’re scared of the thugs” or even more honest, “this is a commercial decision”
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    edited August 2022
    GIN1138 said:

    Stuart.

    'By the time of the next election.'

    Got it?

    Yes, I appreciated your qualification. I do actually read PBers posts.

    Let me respond this way: the Year of next UK GE market presents an outstanding opportunity.

    Truss has one chance, and one chance only. She needs to go hard and go early. A whirlwind. Con Maj 1 would be an astonishing success. I think she can do it.
    Thing is going from a majority of 80 to a majority of 1 in an election two years early would be a seen as a disaster for Truss and Con.

    So she'll do what Brown, Major and Callaghan did and wait until the last possible moment in the hope something turns up.

    I expect a January 2025 election and a small Labour majority government to be the result.
    Maybe. I still think that Labour gaining 123 seats to get to 325 is a long shot. 5% chance? The current odds are rubbish.

    The alchemy of UK politics will with luck give us a Lab minority government, relying on LD support or coalition.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited August 2022

    GIN1138 said:

    Stuart.

    'By the time of the next election.'

    Got it?

    Yes, I appreciated your qualification. I do actually read PBers posts.

    Let me respond this way: the Year of next UK GE market presents an outstanding opportunity.

    Truss has one chance, and one chance only. She needs to go hard and go early. A whirlwind. Con Maj 1 would be an astonishing success. I think she can do it.
    Thing is going from a majority of 80 to a majority of 1 in an election two years early would be a seen as a disaster for Truss and Con.

    So she'll do what Brown, Major and Callaghan did and wait until the last possible moment in the hope something turns up.

    I expect a January 2025 election and a small Labour majority government to be the result.
    Lab Maj? You’re a brave man. What’s your stake?

    Assuming SLab MPs = max 5 (copyright CHB), and Welsh Labour sweeping the board, how the hell is Starmer going to get to Maj?? Have you perused the list of English seats he’d need to gain? It is gargantuan.
    And Wales loses 8 seats, 4 of which are Labour, so that nullifies any Scottish gains if limited to 5 seats
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    edited August 2022
    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    Did they say that with a straight face? And without realising the irony of what they said?

    Fair enough to say they wouldn't book him because they don't approve of his act, but they can't then say they don't censor material. The two are mutually exclusive.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Manchester United Football Club

    There's a trades description offence right there.
    Well, the Hundred is called 'cricket.'
    I'm actually warming to the hundred. There is so much skill on show and there are one or two good points beside the nonsense. The requirement to have an extra fielder in the ring if you don't bowl your balls before the cut off time will surely be copied.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited August 2022
    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    “We believe in freedom of speech, but we didn’t like what he said”

    Can’t imagine comedians queuing up to book that venue next year.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    With devomax, quite probably
  • Betfair next prime minister
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    9.8 Rishi Sunak 10%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    9.6 Rishi Sunak 10%
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    ydoethur said:

    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    Did they say that with a straight face? And without realising the irony of what they said?

    Fair enough to say they wouldn't book him because they don't approve of his act, but they can't then say they don't censor material. The two are mutually exclusive.
    This is Scotland @ydoethur . Saying that sort of thing with a straight face is the easy stuff.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Manchester United Football Club

    There's a trades description offence right there.
    Well, the Hundred is called 'cricket.'
    I'm actually warming to the hundred. There is so much skill on show and there are one or two good points beside the nonsense. The requirement to have an extra fielder in the ring if you don't bowl your balls before the cut off time will surely be copied.
    It was in the T20 at the commonwealth
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    DavidL said:

    I think debating with Sunak has definitely toughened Truss up and made her faster on her feet. Whether that is enough given the choices she has to make and the inheritence that she is receiving remains to be seen.

    No she hasn't debated with Sunak. He has told it like it is while she has talked fantasy bollocks.

    Maybe it'll work at the GE too.
  • Effing LOL, always love a dig at the Welsh.

    On Friday night, Sir Robert Buckland, the Welsh secretary who was Raab’s predecessor as justice secretary, switched sides from Sunak to Truss, in the apparent hope that he can return to the Ministry of Justice.....

    ....MPs who saw Buckland’s defection more cynically were yesterday sharing a quote from A Man For All Seasons, the play and film about another former lord chancellor, Sir Thomas More: “It profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?”
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    With devomax, quite probably
    As @Eabhal asked on the previous thread:

    - “What is devomax? What currently reserved powers would be devolved?”

    Your lack of answer did not go unnoticed.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    Pretty good odds since the Union of the Crowns went past 400 years nearly 20 years ago.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    Effing LOL, always love a dig at the Welsh.

    On Friday night, Sir Robert Buckland, the Welsh secretary who was Raab’s predecessor as justice secretary, switched sides from Sunak to Truss, in the apparent hope that he can return to the Ministry of Justice.....

    ....MPs who saw Buckland’s defection more cynically were yesterday sharing a quote from A Man For All Seasons, the play and film about another former lord chancellor, Sir Thomas More: “It profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?”

    Somebody was bound to loose a Bolt at him.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Starmer is sidelining Reeves to present the super exciting fully costed macguffin on Monday.
    I hope its better than Thursdays 'compensate the energy companies' bollox
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,037
    edited August 2022

    Whatever your view of his overall thesis, I really recommend reading Oliver Eagleton's superb account (p74-127) of how Labour moved from its pledge to respect Leave in its 2017 manifesto to the car crash 2nd referendum policy in 2019. Starmer behaved, in my view, disgracefully.

    https://twitter.com/richardmarcj/status/1558507707916849153

    He has done exactly the same thing in completely ditching the manifesto on which he was elected as Labour leader. And yet he presented himself as the honest alternative to Johnson, who, NI rise aside, has actually done most of what he said he would do in 2019.

    He is a serial fraud and liar almost on the Blair scale though fortunately without fraction of his charisma
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Manchester United Football Club

    There's a trades description offence right there.
    Well, the Hundred is called 'cricket.'
    I'm actually warming to the hundred. There is so much skill on show and there are one or two good points beside the nonsense. The requirement to have an extra fielder in the ring if you don't bowl your balls before the cut off time will surely be copied.
    You need to be careful. You'll be taking your pizza with pineapple next.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    The height of absurdity. The director is tangling himself in impossibly illogical knots. You can’t be both pro-free speech and then engage in cancel culture.

    He should have said “free speech has limits” or been brutally honest and said “I don’t agree with this, but we’re scared of the thugs” or even more honest, “this is a commercial decision”

    No idea what this is about, but belief in freedom of speech does not mean that the free speaker has an untrammelled right to utilise the editorial pages of the Times, the Albert Hall, Penguin Books or my kitchen to express them. Venues in general are like publishers. They can be editors if they want to be.

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385

    Effing LOL, always love a dig at the Welsh.

    On Friday night, Sir Robert Buckland, the Welsh secretary who was Raab’s predecessor as justice secretary, switched sides from Sunak to Truss, in the apparent hope that he can return to the Ministry of Justice.....

    ....MPs who saw Buckland’s defection more cynically were yesterday sharing a quote from A Man For All Seasons, the play and film about another former lord chancellor, Sir Thomas More: “It profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?”

    Rushing to the aid of the Victor, as John Rentoul called it the other week when quoting someone.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    Fishing said:

    Whatever your view of his overall thesis, I really recommend reading Oliver Eagleton's superb account (p74-127) of how Labour moved from its pledge to respect Leave in its 2017 manifesto to the car crash 2nd referendum policy in 2019. Starmer behaved, in my view, disgracefully.

    https://twitter.com/richardmarcj/status/1558507707916849153

    He has done exactly the same thing in completely ditching the manifesto on which he was elected as Labour leader. And yet he presented himself as the honest alternative to Johnson, who, NI rise aside, has actually done most of what he said he would do in 2019.

    He is a serial fraud and liar.
    I never knew BJO was so good at hacking accounts.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    Pretty good odds since the Union of the Crowns went past 400 years nearly 20 years ago.
    A misnomer. The crowns were not united. It was a personal union, with the monarchs ruling three kingdoms: England, Ireland and Scotland (and other bits n bobs). The legislatures and privy councils (governments) remained separate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    With devomax, quite probably
    As @Eabhal asked on the previous thread:

    - “What is devomax? What currently reserved powers would be devolved?”

    Your lack of answer did not go unnoticed.
    It is not for me to answer, it is a PM Starmer and Gordon Brown who would implement it
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    Pretty good odds since the Union of the Crowns went past 400 years nearly 20 years ago.
    A misnomer. The crowns were not united. It was a personal union, with the monarchs ruling three kingdoms: England, Ireland and Scotland (and other bits n bobs). The legislatures and privy councils (governments) remained separate.
    Although James VI and I insisted on being called 'King of Great Britain.'

    (Well, to be strictly accurate, 'King of Great Britain, Ireland and France.')
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    With devomax, quite probably
    As @Eabhal asked on the previous thread:

    - “What is devomax? What currently reserved powers would be devolved?”

    Your lack of answer did not go unnoticed.
    It is not for me to answer, it is a PM Starmer and Gordon Brown who would implement it
    Gordon Brown?!? When did he become leader of the Labour Party again?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    ydoethur said:

    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    Did they say that with a straight face? And without realising the irony of what they said?

    Fair enough to say they wouldn't book him because they don't approve of his act, but they can't then say they don't censor material. The two are mutually exclusive.
    I don't know, their unintentional comedic point is pretty funny, so I think it is entirely sincere that they cannot see it.

    I think people are very good at holding irreconcilable opinions at the same time. I imagine they get around this one by insisting they don't censor acts that take place, they just don't host acts they don't like the content of, obviating the need to censor in the first place - the material exists uncensored, but unseen.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    Did they say that with a straight face? And without realising the irony of what they said?

    Fair enough to say they wouldn't book him because they don't approve of his act, but they can't then say they don't censor material. The two are mutually exclusive.
    I don't know, their unintentional comedic point is pretty funny, so I think it is entirely sincere that they cannot see it.

    I think people are very good at holding irreconcilable opinions at the same time. I imagine they get around this one by insisting they don't censor acts that take place, they just don't host acts they don't like the content of, obviating the need to censor in the first place - the material exists uncensored, but unseen.
    They are artists.

    'An artist is someone who can hold two opposing viewpoints and still remain fully functional.' Scott Fitzgerald.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    Pretty good odds since the Union of the Crowns went past 400 years nearly 20 years ago.
    A misnomer. The crowns were not united. It was a personal union, with the monarchs ruling three kingdoms: England, Ireland and Scotland (and other bits n bobs). The legislatures and privy councils (governments) remained separate.
    Although James VI and I insisted on being called 'King of Great Britain.'

    (Well, to be strictly accurate, 'King of Great Britain, Ireland and France.')
    Monarchs down the ages have talked a lot of shite.

    Eg the Nordic warlord Æthelstan minted coins saying ‘Rex totius Britanniae’.
    Nice try, but no coconuts.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    With devomax, quite probably
    As @Eabhal asked on the previous thread:

    - “What is devomax? What currently reserved powers would be devolved?”

    Your lack of answer did not go unnoticed.
    It is not for me to answer, it is a PM Starmer and Gordon Brown who would implement it
    Gordon Brown?!? When did he become leader of the Labour Party again?
    Starmer has made clear as PM he would put Gordon Brown in charge of a programme of further devolution
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Sandpit said:

    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    “We believe in freedom of speech, but we didn’t like what he said”

    Can’t imagine comedians queuing up to book that venue next year.
    There are a lot more aspiring comedians than there are shows and venues to host them all, I doubt they will have trouble finding people, some of whom may even still be good. That's why venues can be discerning I suppose - the claim of not censoring whilst judging his content is just rubbing salt into the wound to him.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    Pretty good odds since the Union of the Crowns went past 400 years nearly 20 years ago.
    A misnomer. The crowns were not united. It was a personal union, with the monarchs ruling three kingdoms: England, Ireland and Scotland (and other bits n bobs). The legislatures and privy councils (governments) remained separate.
    Although James VI and I insisted on being called 'King of Great Britain.'

    (Well, to be strictly accurate, 'King of Great Britain, Ireland and France.')
    Monarchs down the ages have talked a lot of shite.

    Eg the Nordic warlord Æthelstan minted coins saying ‘Rex totius Britanniae’.
    Nice try, but no coconuts.
    Is that like, 'King of the World'?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    Pretty good odds since the Union of the Crowns went past 400 years nearly 20 years ago.
    If Scotland wanted to go its own way it missed the big chance to de-Union the crowns in 1688 and thereafter. Just as it missed the big chance of the modern equivalent in 2014.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    edited August 2022
    Fishing said:

    Whatever your view of his overall thesis, I really recommend reading Oliver Eagleton's superb account (p74-127) of how Labour moved from its pledge to respect Leave in its 2017 manifesto to the car crash 2nd referendum policy in 2019. Starmer behaved, in my view, disgracefully.

    https://twitter.com/richardmarcj/status/1558507707916849153

    He has done exactly the same thing in completely ditching the manifesto on which he was elected as Labour leader. And yet he presented himself as the honest alternative to Johnson, who, NI rise aside, has actually done most of what he said he would do in 2019.

    He is a serial fraud and liar almost on the Blair scale though fortunately without fraction of his charisma
    Your anger on behalf of the Left at those ditched socialist promises is palpable and SO appreciated.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663
    edited August 2022
    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    The height of absurdity. The director is tangling himself in impossibly illogical knots. You can’t be both pro-free speech and then engage in cancel culture.

    He should have said “free speech has limits” or been brutally honest and said “I don’t agree with this, but we’re scared of the thugs” or even more honest, “this is a commercial decision”

    No idea what this is about, but belief in freedom of speech does not mean that the free speaker has an untrammelled right to utilise the editorial pages of the Times, the Albert Hall, Penguin Books or my kitchen to express them. Venues in general are like publishers. They can be editors if they want to be.

    Well of course. The point is the guy is talking in circles - have some honesty and don't claim you don't censor. Indeed, targeted censorship is fine as long as it isn't the government doing it - PB as a forum wouldn't survive without it.

    A different point - this is the fringe. The idea is that stuff the Edinburgh establishment doesn't like is still put on. You should see the kind of stuff that goes on in some of the the late night shows...

    The obvious reaction, if acts can't find any support, is an alternative. The side-parting? The bangs? I heard a rumour that he is going do the show stood on a box in the Meadows.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited August 2022
    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    The height of absurdity. The director is tangling himself in impossibly illogical knots. You can’t be both pro-free speech and then engage in cancel culture.

    He should have said “free speech has limits” or been brutally honest and said “I don’t agree with this, but we’re scared of the thugs” or even more honest, “this is a commercial decision”

    No idea what this is about, but belief in freedom of speech does not mean that the free speaker has an untrammelled right to utilise the editorial pages of the Times, the Albert Hall, Penguin Books or my kitchen to express them. Venues in general are like publishers. They can be editors if they want to be.

    I used to think that. But the reality is the thugs now go from venue to venue, private and public, online and IRL, hounding out people with comedy/views they’re offended by. “No platforming” is now far more total than it ever was in the past.

    The best bit of my post was actually very subtle. It was the fact that the BBC journo/editor murdered the guy with his own words. They could have (and indeed, in the past, would have) helpfully edited out the glaring contradiction in his quote.

    They didn’t. I recon it’s deliberate. The BBC, or at least some within the BBC, have had it with cancel culture.

    Hum it quietly; oh the times, they are a’changing.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    Pretty good odds since the Union of the Crowns went past 400 years nearly 20 years ago.
    A misnomer. The crowns were not united. It was a personal union, with the monarchs ruling three kingdoms: England, Ireland and Scotland (and other bits n bobs). The legislatures and privy councils (governments) remained separate.
    LOL. The controlling power of all 3 countries was vested in the same individual. As they have been for the last 420 years. Given the power of the Monarch was so much greater then (pre Civil war) and Parliament so much weaker (especially in Scotland) I would call that a Union.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    Pretty good odds since the Union of the Crowns went past 400 years nearly 20 years ago.
    A misnomer. The crowns were not united. It was a personal union, with the monarchs ruling three kingdoms: England, Ireland and Scotland (and other bits n bobs). The legislatures and privy councils (governments) remained separate.
    Legislatures were separate, but Legislatures are not "Crowns".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited August 2022
    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    The height of absurdity. The director is tangling himself in impossibly illogical knots. You can’t be both pro-free speech and then engage in cancel culture.

    He should have said “free speech has limits” or been brutally honest and said “I don’t agree with this, but we’re scared of the thugs” or even more honest, “this is a commercial decision”

    No idea what this is about, but belief in freedom of speech does not mean that the free speaker has an untrammelled right to utilise the editorial pages of the Times, the Albert Hall, Penguin Books or my kitchen to express them. Venues in general are like publishers. They can be editors if they want to be.

    Certainly they can, but it is pretty weird to emphasise your free speech credentials at the same time as deciding you don't wish to host that particular bit of speech. If they want to lean more on the 'must align with our values' side of things that is fine, but it comes across as schizophrenic (or as Eabhal notes, dishonest) to highlight the 'we do not censor' whilst making an editorial call.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    With devomax, quite probably
    As @Eabhal asked on the previous thread:

    - “What is devomax? What currently reserved powers would be devolved?”

    Your lack of answer did not go unnoticed.
    It is not for me to answer, it is a PM Starmer and Gordon Brown who would implement it
    Gordon Brown?!? When did he become leader of the Labour Party again?
    Starmer has made clear as PM he would put Gordon Brown in charge of a programme of further devolution
    One for the PB Tories and Stuart.

    " Dumb and Dumber"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Opinium new Conservative members poll

    Truss 61%
    Sunak 39%

    Closer than Johnson v Hunt or
    Cameron v Davis but still about the same margin IDS beat Clarke in 2001

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1558528835976663041?s=20&t=45CVDfYNISmriOGAjG6bVg
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    Pretty good odds since the Union of the Crowns went past 400 years nearly 20 years ago.
    A misnomer. The crowns were not united. It was a personal union, with the monarchs ruling three kingdoms: England, Ireland and Scotland (and other bits n bobs). The legislatures and privy councils (governments) remained separate.
    LOL. The controlling power of all 3 countries was vested in the same individual. As they have been for the last 420 years. Given the power of the Monarch was so much greater then (pre Civil war) and Parliament so much weaker (especially in Scotland) I would call that a Union.
    It clearly was. I don't dispute the initial premise of counting from the fuller Union, but the offering of odds should simply have been more specific on PedantBetting.com.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    Did they say that with a straight face? And without realising the irony of what they said?

    Fair enough to say they wouldn't book him because they don't approve of his act, but they can't then say they don't censor material. The two are mutually exclusive.
    I don't know, their unintentional comedic point is pretty funny, so I think it is entirely sincere that they cannot see it.

    I think people are very good at holding irreconcilable opinions at the same time. I imagine they get around this one by insisting they don't censor acts that take place, they just don't host acts they don't like the content of, obviating the need to censor in the first place - the material exists uncensored, but unseen.
    They are artists.

    'An artist is someone who can hold two opposing viewpoints and still remain fully functional.' Scott Fitzgerald.
    So what happened to @Leon ? Did he go for 3?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    GB News giving time to Trump Cultists this evening:


    GB News
    @GBNEWS
    ·
    41m
    'This is another example of the apparatus of the state being used to punish or criminalise a political opponent.'

    Republicans Overseas UK Chairman Greg Swenson reacts to Trump's home being raided by the FBI.

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1558519317754413056
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    HYUFD said:

    Opinium new Conservative members poll

    Truss 61%
    Sunak 39%

    Closer than Johnson v Hunt or
    Cameron v Davis but still about the same margin IDS beat Clarke in 2001

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1558528835976663041?s=20&t=45CVDfYNISmriOGAjG6bVg

    Truss leads by 40% amongst Tory members over 65. Sunak leads by 8% amongst Tory members under 50

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1558530443288498177?s=20&t=1ljWFy1avDbRjIU1cPqKzQ
  • HYUFD said:

    Opinium new Conservative members poll

    Truss 61%
    Sunak 39%

    Closer than Johnson v Hunt or
    Cameron v Davis but still about the same margin IDS beat Clarke in 2001

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1558528835976663041?s=20&t=45CVDfYNISmriOGAjG6bVg

    If it's anything like accurate, and the number who have already voted is accurate, this is over. Sunak should bow out to get Johnson gone ASAP and stop the blue on blue warfare. Sunak lay at 9.8 on Smarkets is tremendous value unless Truss walks out in front of a bus.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    Pretty good odds since the Union of the Crowns went past 400 years nearly 20 years ago.
    A misnomer. The crowns were not united. It was a personal union, with the monarchs ruling three kingdoms: England, Ireland and Scotland (and other bits n bobs). The legislatures and privy councils (governments) remained separate.
    Although James VI and I insisted on being called 'King of Great Britain.'

    (Well, to be strictly accurate, 'King of Great Britain, Ireland and France.')
    Monarchs down the ages have talked a lot of shite.

    Eg the Nordic warlord Æthelstan minted coins saying ‘Rex totius Britanniae’.
    Nice try, but no coconuts.
    1) Aethelstan was Saxon not Nordic
    2) As he defeated the Scottish and Danish army at Brunanburh and forced them to acknowledge him as overlord, having already received the homage of the leading Welsh princes five years earlier, it seems a fair enough title.

    His death two years later saw his hegemony disintegrate, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist.
    Yes, grandiose in its claim no doubt, but if formal homage is received by the rulers of the day its not exactly on the level of claiming the crown of France centuries after it was even close to being a realistic pretension.

    I mean, what did it really mean other than claiming he was the biggest deal in the islands? And that seems true.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    ydoethur said:

    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    Did they say that with a straight face? And without realising the irony of what they said?

    Fair enough to say they wouldn't book him because they don't approve of his act, but they can't then say they don't censor material. The two are mutually exclusive.
    I believe in free speech but I'd kick someone out of my house if they pissed me off by being a total dick. Fact I've done that. Felt terrible the next day though. You only have one dad.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    I must be getting used to the heat. 27degC in our living room feels positively cool!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    GB News giving time to Trump Cultists this evening:


    GB News
    @GBNEWS
    ·
    41m
    'This is another example of the apparatus of the state being used to punish or criminalise a political opponent.'

    Republicans Overseas UK Chairman Greg Swenson reacts to Trump's home being raided by the FBI.

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1558519317754413056

    How can that be?

    When I last watched Dan Wooton the tagline was "no spin, no bias".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    HYUFD said:

    Opinium new Conservative members poll

    Truss 61%
    Sunak 39%

    Closer than Johnson v Hunt or
    Cameron v Davis but still about the same margin IDS beat Clarke in 2001

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1558528835976663041?s=20&t=45CVDfYNISmriOGAjG6bVg

    If it's anything like accurate, and the number who have already voted is accurate, this is over. Sunak should bow out to get Johnson gone ASAP and stop the blue on blue warfare. Sunak lay at 9.8 on Smarkets is tremendous value unless Truss walks out in front of a bus.
    No Tory members vote has been close. We're only 3 weeks from the scheduled end, it's too late to pull out.

    He doesn't seem the type to accept a lesser post after holding a Great Office, so he's probably resigned to not being in the Truss Cabinet anyway, so no harm in pushing her all the way.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Opinium new Conservative members poll

    Truss 61%
    Sunak 39%

    Closer than Johnson v Hunt or
    Cameron v Davis but still about the same margin IDS beat Clarke in 2001

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1558528835976663041?s=20&t=45CVDfYNISmriOGAjG6bVg

    If it's anything like accurate, and the number who have already voted is accurate, this is over. Sunak should bow out to get Johnson gone ASAP and stop the blue on blue warfare. Sunak lay at 9.8 on Smarkets is tremendous value unless Truss walks out in front of a bus.
    It looks over. Though 68% of Tory members would still prefer Johnson to be PM than Sunak and 63% would still prefer Johnson to be PM than Truss


    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1558530954033086464?s=20&t=F4bdca9q3ABXDGw68dPsRw
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    With devomax, quite probably
    As @Eabhal asked on the previous thread:

    - “What is devomax? What currently reserved powers would be devolved?”

    Your lack of answer did not go unnoticed.
    It is not for me to answer, it is a PM Starmer and Gordon Brown who would implement it
    Gordon Brown?!? When did he become leader of the Labour Party again?
    Starmer has made clear as PM he would put Gordon Brown in charge of a programme of further devolution
    One for the PB Tories and Stuart.

    " Dumb and Dumber"
    Just going through the list of stuff that could get devolved while retaining a sensible Union (aka devomax), I reckon:

    Universal Credit (etc)
    Illegal drugs
    Betting (eeek)
    Experimenting on animals
    Possibly some more energy stuff? tricky
    Equalities
    Post
    All income taxes (though income tax is largely devolved now)

    That's it really. Anything further would be unworkable, imo.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I was being told at our celebratory lunch today by my son's chinese girlfriend that in Mandarin 4 is a very unlucky number because it sounds like the word for death. Maybe they have a point.

    Chances of the Union reaching 4 centuries?

    Yes 8/1
    No 1/9
    Pretty good odds since the Union of the Crowns went past 400 years nearly 20 years ago.
    A misnomer. The crowns were not united. It was a personal union, with the monarchs ruling three kingdoms: England, Ireland and Scotland (and other bits n bobs). The legislatures and privy councils (governments) remained separate.
    Although James VI and I insisted on being called 'King of Great Britain.'

    (Well, to be strictly accurate, 'King of Great Britain, Ireland and France.')
    Monarchs down the ages have talked a lot of shite.

    Eg the Nordic warlord Æthelstan minted coins saying ‘Rex totius Britanniae’.
    Nice try, but no coconuts.
    Some unusual interpretations going on kn that second sentence.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Interesting that punters make it a 49.5% chance that the Tories will win an overall majority.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    There are some very bad taste Man Utd jokes currently working their way around the internet.

    Let’s hope the Glazers know about the football pyramid, and don’t think they bought a “Premier League franchise”.

    What's the difference between a triangle and Man Utd?
    I wouldn't overeact. Man U had 15 shots and De Gea gifted the 1st 2 goals. And it's VERY early days in the season.

    I might have a nibble for Top 4 if the price has gone stupid.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,267
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    Did they say that with a straight face? And without realising the irony of what they said?

    Fair enough to say they wouldn't book him because they don't approve of his act, but they can't then say they don't censor material. The two are mutually exclusive.
    I don't know, their unintentional comedic point is pretty funny, so I think it is entirely sincere that they cannot see it.

    I think people are very good at holding irreconcilable opinions at the same time. I imagine they get around this one by insisting they don't censor acts that take place, they just don't host acts they don't like the content of, obviating the need to censor in the first place - the material exists uncensored, but unseen.
    When I was at university, a friend was mucking around with neural nets - this was the 90s and the GPU stuff for that came much later.

    His chosen thing was processing ancient texts - they have been copied and modified many times. Everything we have from the ancient Greeks, for example, has been copied many times and often hacked and modified. Often we don't know who the author or authors were. We have a number of different versions, often, as well.

    What his software was doing was learning to identify style patterns by authors. Many texts were actually written by multiple authors. He trained it on known examples and then set it loose on various other texts.

    The university authorities woke up (ha) and pulled him in for an interview without coffee - nearly an interview without chair. They told him that if he ran his software against several quite old texts - one in particular got some emphasis, he would be thrown off his PhD and if he even tried to complain they would tar his name in public.

    The funny bit was that they dressed this up with a big speech about freedom of expression, compassion, understanding and being a Good Egg in general.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Opinium new Conservative members poll

    Truss 61%
    Sunak 39%

    Closer than Johnson v Hunt or
    Cameron v Davis but still about the same margin IDS beat Clarke in 2001

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1558528835976663041?s=20&t=45CVDfYNISmriOGAjG6bVg

    Truss leads by 40% amongst Tory members over 65. Sunak leads by 8% amongst Tory members under 50

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1558530443288498177?s=20&t=1ljWFy1avDbRjIU1cPqKzQ
    I'm reminded of a line used by William Hague in 1977,

    "Half of you may not be here in 30 or 40 years' time, but I will be and I want to be free..."

    Replace "free" by "electable".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ping said:

    “Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62533592

    “The Pleasance declined to give detail about what aspects of Sadowitz's material led to the cancellation.

    Its director, Anthony Alderson, added: "The Pleasance is a venue that champions freedom of speech and we do not censor comedians' material.

    "While we acknowledge that Jerry Sadowitz has often been controversial, the material presented at his first show is not acceptable and does not align with our values.

    "This type of material has no place on the festival and the Pleasance will not be presenting his second and final show"

    Did they say that with a straight face? And without realising the irony of what they said?

    Fair enough to say they wouldn't book him because they don't approve of his act, but they can't then say they don't censor material. The two are mutually exclusive.
    I don't know, their unintentional comedic point is pretty funny, so I think it is entirely sincere that they cannot see it.

    I think people are very good at holding irreconcilable opinions at the same time. I imagine they get around this one by insisting they don't censor acts that take place, they just don't host acts they don't like the content of, obviating the need to censor in the first place - the material exists uncensored, but unseen.
    When I was at university, a friend was mucking around with neural nets - this was the 90s and the GPU stuff for that came much later.

    His chosen thing was processing ancient texts - they have been copied and modified many times. Everything we have from the ancient Greeks, for example, has been copied many times and often hacked and modified. Often we don't know who the author or authors were. We have a number of different versions, often, as well.

    What his software was doing was learning to identify style patterns by authors. Many texts were actually written by multiple authors. He trained it on known examples and then set it loose on various other texts.

    The university authorities woke up (ha) and pulled him in for an interview without coffee - nearly an interview without chair. They told him that if he ran his software against several quite old texts - one in particular got some emphasis, he would be thrown off his PhD and if he even tried to complain they would tar his name in public.

    The funny bit was that they dressed this up with a big speech about freedom of expression, compassion, understanding and being a Good Egg in general.
    Blimey, what were they so concerned about? Questionable authorship seems to be generally accepted of a lot of things.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Opinium new Conservative members poll

    Truss 61%
    Sunak 39%

    Closer than Johnson v Hunt or
    Cameron v Davis but still about the same margin IDS beat Clarke in 2001

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1558528835976663041?s=20&t=45CVDfYNISmriOGAjG6bVg

    If it's anything like accurate, and the number who have already voted is accurate, this is over. Sunak should bow out to get Johnson gone ASAP and stop the blue on blue warfare. Sunak lay at 9.8 on Smarkets is tremendous value unless Truss walks out in front of a bus.
    No Tory members vote has been close. We're only 3 weeks from the scheduled end, it's too late to pull out.

    He doesn't seem the type to accept a lesser post after holding a Great Office, so he's probably resigned to not being in the Truss Cabinet anyway, so no harm in pushing her all the way.
    I recall that in his resignation letter to Bozo, Sunak said that being Chancellor was likely to have been his last job in government.
This discussion has been closed.