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Truss now favourite to be PM after next election – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,008
    edited August 10
    Unpopular said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I'm trying to think if there's any subject on the planet he wouldn't lose his shit about.

    Surprised he isn't in on this...

    Why should hard-working taxpayers in my constituency have to pay for an academic to write about his experiences masturbating to Japanese porn?

    The non-STEM side of higher education is just much too big, producing too much that is not socially useful.


    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/14687941221096600 https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1557236449786957824/photo/1
    Someone I know in academia has reported that academic to police for child abuse on the basis of what they wrote in the journal article.
    I'm generally a live and let live type, or so I like to think, and thought that why not, surely there is something to be gleaned from engaging in the pornography of another culture from an ethnographic point of view. I often dislike how some on the right dismiss knowledge because they find it's subject matter trivial or laughable.

    Then I read the abstract. With no desire to read the rest of the journal article, I'm not surprised they have been reported to the police.
    MP rather overegging things by complaining about academics being paid on public money when it is in fact by a student. And no financial body is credited in the acks [edit] which can be called up without reading the actual paper, so presumably not on a UK research council grant.

    That said, however ...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,162

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    On other happier news I got asked permission today to consent to my daughter getting married.

    Sadly he wasn't interested in a 3 for 1 deal on the others.

    That is nice news, congratulations! Keep us updated on wedding prep. But I think I would probably mark down a future son or daughter in law who asked my permission to marry any of my kids - it's not mine to give!
    Agreed (that it is not mine to give) but he has been really good for her and I am delighted.
    So you didn’t prank him with an 800 page contract?
    At £100 a page; poor lad had to cough up £8k just for the privilege.
    Plus VAT. Plus fees. Plus {something in Law French}….

    At a 100 a page, 800 pages would be 80K…
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,295

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Do I rig some solar thingummyjiggy to the roof of my garage? Or invest in a generator? Neighbours may not be happy with the noise, plus petrol costs etc.

    Petrol generators are not necessarily noisy. We had a Honda unit for running PA systems outdoors and it was really pretty quiet.

    Will be expensive to run, and you need to decide how to get the power into your house. Changeover switch, or separate circuits?
    Separate circuits. If the power goes out, it's no biggie to go to the garage, pull out the generator and switch it on.

    Ultimately, I'm paid by the day, and if having no power means I have to run a generator for the day (cost £20 in petrol) it's worth it when my day rate is £500.

    If it was just me, I'd sit in the dark with a candle and whistle. But being without power for 24 hours or more would significantly impact my consultancy business.

    Of course as LostPassword points out, it's not much use if I can't upload the work due to 4g being out (though I'm fairly sure the mast nearest to me has a diesel backup, on account of it being housed atop a large supermarket, which would have a backup generator).
    What do you do
    Management consultancy... boring as hell but the main problem is clients are very geographically distributed at the moment. Being unable to say, dial in to a teams call for the company in the US that has been paying my wages the last couple of months because of a 48 hour blackout would potentially ruin the relationship and destroy a long term revenue stream.

    As I will be working from home all winter, it's pretty important to me to be able to keep the lights on, the internet going, and at least one room in the house warm enough to work.

    I realise it's probably not the most critical job in the world but it's my livelihood.
    I interviewed for Deloitte but it just seemed so dull.

    Bet you can guess what I do!
    Aren't you a dev? Or did I imagine that?

    The work I'm doing at the minute is boring and probably underpaid (compared to how much deloitte would be charging!) but I'm a lot happier since quitting my job at [insert name of large corporation] and working for myself.

    But it just occurred to me today that hey, no power over winter = no work, and existing work promised not delivered.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,008

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    On other happier news I got asked permission today to consent to my daughter getting married.

    Sadly he wasn't interested in a 3 for 1 deal on the others.

    That is nice news, congratulations! Keep us updated on wedding prep. But I think I would probably mark down a future son or daughter in law who asked my permission to marry any of my kids - it's not mine to give!
    Agreed (that it is not mine to give) but he has been really good for her and I am delighted.
    So you didn’t prank him with an 800 page contract?
    At £100 a page; poor lad had to cough up £8k just for the privilege.
    Plus VAT. Plus fees. Plus {something in Law French}….

    At a 100 a page, 800 pages would be 80K…
    Plus time spent talking to the lad. Don't forget.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786
    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,340
    edited August 10
    kyf_100 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Do I rig some solar thingummyjiggy to the roof of my garage? Or invest in a generator? Neighbours may not be happy with the noise, plus petrol costs etc.

    Petrol generators are not necessarily noisy. We had a Honda unit for running PA systems outdoors and it was really pretty quiet.

    Will be expensive to run, and you need to decide how to get the power into your house. Changeover switch, or separate circuits?
    Separate circuits. If the power goes out, it's no biggie to go to the garage, pull out the generator and switch it on.

    Ultimately, I'm paid by the day, and if having no power means I have to run a generator for the day (cost £20 in petrol) it's worth it when my day rate is £500.

    If it was just me, I'd sit in the dark with a candle and whistle. But being without power for 24 hours or more would significantly impact my consultancy business.

    Of course as LostPassword points out, it's not much use if I can't upload the work due to 4g being out (though I'm fairly sure the mast nearest to me has a diesel backup, on account of it being housed atop a large supermarket, which would have a backup generator).
    How long do you expect blackouts to last? I'd prepare for hours rather than days, so room temperature should not drop much. Keep your phone and laptop powered up while the juice is still on. Prepare a thermos flask (or two) of coffee or tea. If the worst comes to the worst, which it won't, book a hotel room in the next town.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,438
    edited August 10
    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Do I rig some solar thingummyjiggy to the roof of my garage? Or invest in a generator? Neighbours may not be happy with the noise, plus petrol costs etc.

    Petrol generators are not necessarily noisy. We had a Honda unit for running PA systems outdoors and it was really pretty quiet.

    Will be expensive to run, and you need to decide how to get the power into your house. Changeover switch, or separate circuits?
    Separate circuits. If the power goes out, it's no biggie to go to the garage, pull out the generator and switch it on.

    Ultimately, I'm paid by the day, and if having no power means I have to run a generator for the day (cost £20 in petrol) it's worth it when my day rate is £500.

    If it was just me, I'd sit in the dark with a candle and whistle. But being without power for 24 hours or more would significantly impact my consultancy business.

    Of course as LostPassword points out, it's not much use if I can't upload the work due to 4g being out (though I'm fairly sure the mast nearest to me has a diesel backup, on account of it being housed atop a large supermarket, which would have a backup generator).
    Looking on Amazon UK, petrol generators are already mostly showing up as out of stock. 2kW petrol genny coming in at £1,700. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gmjay-Frequency-Generator-Household-Emergency/dp/B09CM4M679/ Remember to keep a couple of Jerry cans of petrol handy, and a load of extension reels.

    For just keeping your laptop and broadband router online in a real emergency, you can get a car-powered mains inverter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/LVYUAN-Inverter-Converter-Sockets-Adapter/dp/B07ZT9ML61/
    That’s much cheaper to buy, but more expensive to run as you’ll need the car engine on.

    If you need internet no matter what, then look to something like Starlink that can route around a local power cut.

    Otherwise, plan a place to go in the event of a power cut, maybe an hotel or a relative’s house.
    That's because you've looked up petrol generator rather than diesel generator.

    There are plenty in stock and they only cost a few hundred quid.

    Edit to add:
    Scratch that. The generators I looked at were petrol ones. But there's plenty of stock in Amazon UK for delivery this week. Look up Böhmer
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,295
    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Do I rig some solar thingummyjiggy to the roof of my garage? Or invest in a generator? Neighbours may not be happy with the noise, plus petrol costs etc.

    Petrol generators are not necessarily noisy. We had a Honda unit for running PA systems outdoors and it was really pretty quiet.

    Will be expensive to run, and you need to decide how to get the power into your house. Changeover switch, or separate circuits?
    Separate circuits. If the power goes out, it's no biggie to go to the garage, pull out the generator and switch it on.

    Ultimately, I'm paid by the day, and if having no power means I have to run a generator for the day (cost £20 in petrol) it's worth it when my day rate is £500.

    If it was just me, I'd sit in the dark with a candle and whistle. But being without power for 24 hours or more would significantly impact my consultancy business.

    Of course as LostPassword points out, it's not much use if I can't upload the work due to 4g being out (though I'm fairly sure the mast nearest to me has a diesel backup, on account of it being housed atop a large supermarket, which would have a backup generator).
    Looking on Amazon UK, petrol generators are already mostly showing up as out of stock. 2kW petrol genny coming in at £1,700. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gmjay-Frequency-Generator-Household-Emergency/dp/B09CM4M679/ Remember to keep a couple of Jerry cans of petrol handy, and a load of extension reels.

    For just keeping your laptop and broadband router online in a real emergency, you can get a car-powered mains inverter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/LVYUAN-Inverter-Converter-Sockets-Adapter/dp/B07ZT9ML61/
    That’s much cheaper to buy, but more expensive to run as you’ll need the car engine on.

    If you need internet no matter what, then look to something like Starlink that can route around a local power cut.

    Otherwise, plan a place to go in the event of a power cut, maybe an hotel or a relative’s house.
    The car power mains inverter is an interesting one to use "at a pinch" did not know that tech existed.

    Don't know much about generators, but currently looking at this, available for pickup in my neck of the woods next day.

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/impax-im1800ifg-1800w-inverter-frame-generator-240v/843HP
  • kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Do I rig some solar thingummyjiggy to the roof of my garage? Or invest in a generator? Neighbours may not be happy with the noise, plus petrol costs etc.

    Petrol generators are not necessarily noisy. We had a Honda unit for running PA systems outdoors and it was really pretty quiet.

    Will be expensive to run, and you need to decide how to get the power into your house. Changeover switch, or separate circuits?
    Separate circuits. If the power goes out, it's no biggie to go to the garage, pull out the generator and switch it on.

    Ultimately, I'm paid by the day, and if having no power means I have to run a generator for the day (cost £20 in petrol) it's worth it when my day rate is £500.

    If it was just me, I'd sit in the dark with a candle and whistle. But being without power for 24 hours or more would significantly impact my consultancy business.

    Of course as LostPassword points out, it's not much use if I can't upload the work due to 4g being out (though I'm fairly sure the mast nearest to me has a diesel backup, on account of it being housed atop a large supermarket, which would have a backup generator).
    What do you do
    Management consultancy... boring as hell but the main problem is clients are very geographically distributed at the moment. Being unable to say, dial in to a teams call for the company in the US that has been paying my wages the last couple of months because of a 48 hour blackout would potentially ruin the relationship and destroy a long term revenue stream.

    As I will be working from home all winter, it's pretty important to me to be able to keep the lights on, the internet going, and at least one room in the house warm enough to work.

    I realise it's probably not the most critical job in the world but it's my livelihood.
    I interviewed for Deloitte but it just seemed so dull.

    Bet you can guess what I do!
    Aren't you a dev? Or did I imagine that?

    The work I'm doing at the minute is boring and probably underpaid (compared to how much deloitte would be charging!) but I'm a lot happier since quitting my job at [insert name of large corporation] and working for myself.

    But it just occurred to me today that hey, no power over winter = no work, and existing work promised not delivered.
    I call myself a Software Engineer but yes
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,192
    So... laying the groundwork for a future "no handouts!" U-turn without actually admitting to U-turning, with an extra helping of snark? https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/1557372635150958592
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,192
    Rishi Sunak has told the BBC he'd rather lose the Tory leadership race than "win on a false promise". Interview goes out at 7pm, early take on their website. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62496858
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,665
    The conservatives are buggered from September. Two sides of the party that seem to genuinely hate each other. No clear idea about what to do.

    Shame Labour seems equally as vacuous but still.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,438
    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,192
    edited August 10
    kyf_100 said:

    The car power mains inverter is an interesting one to use "at a pinch" did not know that tech existed.

    On the brand new Defender you can get a 13A socket in the back AFAIK


    EDIT: If you want to convert oil into electricity, I suspect a generator will be much more efficient than car engine, alternator, charge battery, inverter...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,438
    Scott_xP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The car power mains inverter is an interesting one to use "at a pinch" did not know that tech existed.

    On the brand new Defender you can get a 13A socket in the back AFAIK
    That's a lot more expensive than spending £250 on a diesel generator.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,856
    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak has told the BBC he'd rather lose the Tory leadership race than "win on a false promise". Interview goes out at 7pm, early take on their website. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62496858

    "The BBC has also invited Liz Truss to a one-on-one interview with Nick Robinson and says it has been discussing timings with her team."

    I bet they have.

    So will it be June 50th, today at 2:65, or Marchvember Oneteenth?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHtrnuTuSkk
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,391
    Getting your official spokesperson to describe Rishi Sunak as a socialist does nothing except demonstrate that you are unhinged.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,886
    edited August 10
    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Do I rig some solar thingummyjiggy to the roof of my garage? Or invest in a generator? Neighbours may not be happy with the noise, plus petrol costs etc.

    Petrol generators are not necessarily noisy. We had a Honda unit for running PA systems outdoors and it was really pretty quiet.

    Will be expensive to run, and you need to decide how to get the power into your house. Changeover switch, or separate circuits?
    Separate circuits. If the power goes out, it's no biggie to go to the garage, pull out the generator and switch it on.

    Ultimately, I'm paid by the day, and if having no power means I have to run a generator for the day (cost £20 in petrol) it's worth it when my day rate is £500.

    If it was just me, I'd sit in the dark with a candle and whistle. But being without power for 24 hours or more would significantly impact my consultancy business.

    Of course as LostPassword points out, it's not much use if I can't upload the work due to 4g being out (though I'm fairly sure the mast nearest to me has a diesel backup, on account of it being housed atop a large supermarket, which would have a backup generator).
    Looking on Amazon UK, petrol generators are already mostly showing up as out of stock. 2kW petrol genny coming in at £1,700. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gmjay-Frequency-Generator-Household-Emergency/dp/B09CM4M679/ Remember to keep a couple of Jerry cans of petrol handy, and a load of extension reels.

    For just keeping your laptop and broadband router online in a real emergency, you can get a car-powered mains inverter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/LVYUAN-Inverter-Converter-Sockets-Adapter/dp/B07ZT9ML61/
    That’s much cheaper to buy, but more expensive to run as you’ll need the car engine on.

    If you need internet no matter what, then look to something like Starlink that can route around a local power cut.

    Otherwise, plan a place to go in the event of a power cut, maybe an hotel or a relative’s house.
    The car power mains inverter is an interesting one to use "at a pinch" did not know that tech existed.

    Don't know much about generators, but currently looking at this, available for pickup in my neck of the woods next day.

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/impax-im1800ifg-1800w-inverter-frame-generator-240v/843HP
    That’s a lot cheaper genny!

    I used to use an inverter when away camping for a week, to charge laptops etc. You just have to make sure you always run the car engine, otherwise the thing will kill your battery in minutes! If you’re working on the basis of power cuts lasting a few hours, rather than a few days, the cost of petrol in the car is nothing compared to the cost of buying a separate genny.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
  • Getting your official spokesperson to describe Rishi Sunak as a socialist does nothing except demonstrate that you are unhinged.

    Another gaffe
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,920

    Getting your official spokesperson to describe Rishi Sunak as a socialist does nothing except demonstrate that you are unhinged.

    So Sunak is a remainer socialist...... Guessing we are not getting truth back post Boris then!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,886
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
  • eekeek Posts: 21,808
    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak has told the BBC he'd rather lose the Tory leadership race than "win on a false promise". Interview goes out at 7pm, early take on their website. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62496858

    1 sentence covers

    I'm going to lose
    Liz is going to be a disaster
    Told you so....
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,856

    Getting your official spokesperson to describe Rishi Sunak as a socialist does nothing except demonstrate that you are unhinged.

    So Sunak is a remainer socialist...... Guessing we are not getting truth back post Boris then!
    All revolutions devour their own children. The bizarre thing is the way that Truss has pushed so hard to get to the front of the queue, pop herself under the cloche and cover herself with barbecue sauce.

    After all, the alternative is to admit that, maybe, the whole revolution thing was a bit of a mistake, and that's not going to happen.
  • LDLFLDLF Posts: 105

    LDLF said:

    I now think there is all to play for in the next election. Both Truss and Starmer are, I think, slightly more profound people than they are generally given credit for, but whether they will have the opportunity to play to their strengths is not going to be up to them - this is politics, and it depends on the events that fall into their laps.

    Truss's big flaw seems to be impulsiveness, though she at least has the sense to backtrack and abandon her more batty ideas rather than stick with them. She has been in government long enough either to understand the problem, or to be a part of it - the jury is still out on which. If she does indeed think outside the box, this would be very welcome, but she has up until this campaign always supported whichever government she was a member of in public (Orange Book Coalition, Merkelite Cameroons, May's Joe Chamberlain tribute act and Boris Johnson on iPod shuffle settings) that I do not think that we are seeing the real Liz Truss in this campaign - perhaps we never will, it probably is not suitable for a family audience. Still, she has at least shown herself to be a more fleet-of-foot campaigner than Sunak, which suprises me.

    Starmer has taken his party in the right direction but has boxed himself in by framing every debate around his own personal moral character and integrity, and the idea that he takes responsibility for everything (the second of these assertions has already been somewhat tested). The result is that even the most harmless little undeclared sale of 7 acres of Surrey comes back to bite him. How would he manage heading the government, which, even when fuctioning well, has to cope with at least one big scandal, and several tiny ones, every year?

    One thing that seems clear, whoever wins the next election: both Truss and Starmer have demonstrated a remarkable and shameless capability to change their minds. Very quickly.

    You misdiagnose Starmer.

    He is obviously an effective bureaucrat, and the proof is to be seen in his career before politics; and in his subsequent clean up of the Labour Party.

    One gets the sense too that he has been effective in part by eschewing strong political positions and not seeming to rock the boat.

    But these bureaucratic strengths are likely weaknesses in retail politics.
    He doesn’t do bold.
    He doesn’t do passion.
    He doesn’t even respond to attacks head on.
    He’s not sure how growth happens, and he’s not terribly clear what his vision is, or why we should be optimistic about it.
    Starmer has indicated at least some semblance of political instincts.

    He first appealed to the Labour membership on a platform of 'Corbynism without the racist bits'. He has quickly shifted from that to attempt to appeal to the electorate as a whole; likely to be the strategy of Truss if she wants to succeed.

    He doesn't need any retail offers until the election - any before then that are any good will be pinched by the government anyway. We have yet to see his skills here in earnest, if he has them.

    But I agree that he doesn't seem to understand how economic growth works That's hardly unique in politics at the moment though. Truss seems at least curious to find out, which at the moment is the best we may hope for - I would have hoped someone might have figured it out by now, but the world is playing by new rules as far as demographics are concerned.

    He could yet end up in government by default.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,886
    edited August 10
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,886
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak has told the BBC he'd rather lose the Tory leadership race than "win on a false promise". Interview goes out at 7pm, early take on their website. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62496858

    1 sentence covers

    I'm going to lose
    Liz is going to be a disaster
    Told you so....
    I’m starting to get genuinely worried, that this blue-on-blue from the Sunak mob isn’t going to stop on 5th September.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Then you were tragically stupid, sorry
  • eekeek Posts: 21,808
    I note that the Rhine is so dry at the moment parts of it will not be navigable by this weekend

    https://twitter.com/TelegraphWorld/status/1557381033863122944
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,142
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    460k of turnover, 16 million costs in 2020

    In 2017 91k turnover, 3 million costs.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,886
    edited August 10
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Then you were tragically stupid, sorry
    LOL.

    Better to have tried and failed, than have failed to try.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,391

    Getting your official spokesperson to describe Rishi Sunak as a socialist does nothing except demonstrate that you are unhinged.

    So Sunak is a remainer socialist...... Guessing we are not getting truth back post Boris then!

    Truss is going to try to be like Johnson but can't be because only he can do it. What comes naturally to him will just seem demented coming from her. He didn't care if no-one believed him. She will. When she seeks to explain her inevitable energy payments u-turn by saying she didn't u-turn it is going to be almost unbearable to watch.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,920
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak has told the BBC he'd rather lose the Tory leadership race than "win on a false promise". Interview goes out at 7pm, early take on their website. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62496858

    1 sentence covers

    I'm going to lose
    Liz is going to be a disaster
    Told you so....
    I’m starting to get genuinely worried, that this blue-on-blue from the Sunak mob isn’t going to stop on 5th September.
    What is Sunak meant to do? Say yes he is a remainer socialist and repent to the only true Brexiteer Truss, and he fully supports her policy which she is already signalling she is going to u-turn from?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Uber has just made its FIRST tiny profit after a decade of controversial business. It is nonetheless valued at $17B

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/uber-posts-first-small-adjusted-profit-ridership-rises-delivery-gets-more-2021-11-04/

    If @MaxPB is right and their IP cannot be challenged nor easily copied, W3W could be worth enormous sums quite soon
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,407
    edited August 10
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak has told the BBC he'd rather lose the Tory leadership race than "win on a false promise". Interview goes out at 7pm, early take on their website. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62496858

    1 sentence covers

    I'm going to lose
    Liz is going to be a disaster
    Told you so....
    He hasn't lost his knack of being an effective communicator then. A very efficient summation of his position, and shows he is at the very least 1/3 correct, and at most entirely correct.

    It is fun that he is now so far behind that he will face criticism for suggesting his opponent does not have the right ideas or policies, which is the whole point of a contest.

    Also funny is the continued pearl clutching about blue-on-blue attacks. Sure, there are lines to cross, and what happens when Truss (inevitably) wins, but I really get the impression that the party wants to have genuine ideological contests between solid candidates, but also doesn't want them to openly disagree with one another because that gives material to Labour.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,886

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Yes, they’ll be hoping that Google and Apple get in a bidding war to make their open system proprietary.

    Sadly, that point may have passed, at least for the next year or two. The only tech M&A activity happing now is distress sales, as the VC investors can’t bear to see writedowns on their valuations.
  • lintolinto Posts: 8
    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Do I rig some solar thingummyjiggy to the roof of my garage? Or invest in a generator? Neighbours may not be happy with the noise, plus petrol costs etc.

    Petrol generators are not necessarily noisy. We had a Honda unit for running PA systems outdoors and it was really pretty quiet.

    Will be expensive to run, and you need to decide how to get the power into your house. Changeover switch, or separate circuits?
    Separate circuits. If the power goes out, it's no biggie to go to the garage, pull out the generator and switch it on.

    Ultimately, I'm paid by the day, and if having no power means I have to run a generator for the day (cost £20 in petrol) it's worth it when my day rate is £500.

    If it was just me, I'd sit in the dark with a candle and whistle. But being without power for 24 hours or more would significantly impact my consultancy business.

    Of course as LostPassword points out, it's not much use if I can't upload the work due to 4g being out (though I'm fairly sure the mast nearest to me has a diesel backup, on account of it being housed atop a large supermarket, which would have a backup generator).
    Looking on Amazon UK, petrol generators are already mostly showing up as out of stock. 2kW petrol genny coming in at £1,700. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gmjay-Frequency-Generator-Household-Emergency/dp/B09CM4M679/ Remember to keep a couple of Jerry cans of petrol handy, and a load of extension reels.

    For just keeping your laptop and broadband router online in a real emergency, you can get a car-powered mains inverter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/LVYUAN-Inverter-Converter-Sockets-Adapter/dp/B07ZT9ML61/
    That’s much cheaper to buy, but more expensive to run as you’ll need the car engine on.

    If you need internet no matter what, then look to something like Starlink that can route around a local power cut.

    Otherwise, plan a place to go in the event of a power cut, maybe an hotel or a relative’s house.
    The car power mains inverter is an interesting one to use "at a pinch" did not know that tech existed.

    Don't know much about generators, but currently looking at this, available for pickup in my neck of the woods next day.

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/impax-im1800ifg-1800w-inverter-frame-generator-240v/843HP
    That’s a lot cheaper genny!

    I used to use an inverter when away camping for a week, to charge laptops etc. You just have to make sure you always run the car engine, otherwise the thing will kill your battery in minutes! If you’re working on the basis of power cuts lasting a few hours, rather than a few days, the cost of petrol in the car is nothing compared to the cost of buying a separate genny.
    If you're using 4g as a back up make sure you pick the right network. EE are probably best as they are also slated to run the emergency services 4g network so have been massively improving coverage and making the whole network more resilient, all of their masts have power if I remember correctly.
    If you're on broadband as long as it runs off the copper network, and your router has power the internet will work as will the land line phone as the copper network is powered from the exchange.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,142
    Scott_xP said:

    There's something compellingly brutal about just how much the @trussliz + @RishiSunak campaigns hate each other.

    These are quotes not from 'sources' but from their *official* campaign spokespeople, issued via press release.

    ❤️‍🔥 https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1557397763113029633/photo/1

    I think it is a battle between the grown up wing of the party and the Boris/juvenile wing. Sadly the grownups are going to lose again. The kids enjoy running the sweetshop and they ain't giving it up until the school governors (the electorate) come along and kick them out. The sweetshop will be out of bounds for a very long time.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,985
    Late afternoon all :)

    Perhaps one of the most prescient pieces I've read for some time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62471260

    I've worked solidly for nearly 40 years since leaving University with a couple of spells of unemployment. I have contemporaries who I see enjoying their life having retired - they go to places, visit friends and do things while I have to continue earning a crust.

    Where's MY incentive to go on working? I can afford to retire so will probably do so in 12-18 months. There's no point Liz Truss or one of her acolytes whingeing on about the joys of work - apart from the pay, for many people, there aren't any. Life is too short - as a wise man once told me, we work to live, not live to work.

    I can't be tempted "back" into work - I've considered part-time with my current employer and I know some over-60s who do that but for me it will be a clean break.

    We need some proper thinking about the post-work world and what kind of society we'll have if we reach a point where half are paying tax and the other half aren't. We'll get none of that from the useless Liz Truss who would struggle to be two-dimensional but perhaps Labour are considering it.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Uber has just made its FIRST tiny profit after a decade of controversial business. It is nonetheless valued at $17B

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/uber-posts-first-small-adjusted-profit-ridership-rises-delivery-gets-more-2021-11-04/

    If @MaxPB is right and their IP cannot be challenged nor easily copied, W3W could be worth enormous sums quite soon
    Uber ahas only made a "profit" by using non standard accounting techniques. The principal driver of their profit in the last quarter has been selling off unprofitable business units in all stock deals and valuing illiquid stock as cash equivalent income.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,391
    Alistair said:

    460k of turnover, 16 million costs in 2020

    In 2017 91k turnover, 3 million costs.

    That isn't very good.

    I don't know what round of financing they are in, but the EBITDA is the key number if they are after a serious valuation - and I don't see how you get one of those on that revenue after five years.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,407

    Scott_xP said:

    There's something compellingly brutal about just how much the @trussliz + @RishiSunak campaigns hate each other.

    These are quotes not from 'sources' but from their *official* campaign spokespeople, issued via press release.

    ❤️‍🔥 https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1557397763113029633/photo/1

    I think it is a battle between the grown up wing of the party and the Boris/juvenile wing. Sadly the grownups are going to lose again. The kids enjoy running the sweetshop and they ain't giving it up until the school governors (the electorate) come along and kick them out. The sweetshop will be out of bounds for a very long time.
    Whether that is right or not I find it odd how low key the Sunak campaign was from the start. He had the most MPs backing him, but with the various leadership contenders weighing in behind Truss, as well as Wallace, the overwhelming impression is as if everyone - MPs as well as Members - wants Truss.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,391
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Yes, they’ll be hoping that Google and Apple get in a bidding war to make their open system proprietary.

    Sadly, that point may have passed, at least for the next year or two. The only tech M&A activity happing now is distress sales, as the VC investors can’t bear to see writedowns on their valuations.

    How would you make an open system proprietary, though? There is no patent protection you can get and there are no trade secrets you can rely on.

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,142
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Then you were tragically stupid, sorry
    If you have a 100% reliable crystal ball for tech investments please let me know, I'll make use of it myself and licence it out to my VC friends
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,407
    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Uber has just made its FIRST tiny profit after a decade of controversial business. It is nonetheless valued at $17B

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/uber-posts-first-small-adjusted-profit-ridership-rises-delivery-gets-more-2021-11-04/

    If @MaxPB is right and their IP cannot be challenged nor easily copied, W3W could be worth enormous sums quite soon
    Uber ahas only made a "profit" by using non standard accounting techniques. The principal driver of their profit in the last quarter has been selling off unprofitable business units in all stock deals and valuing illiquid stock as cash equivalent income.

    'Non-standard accounting techniques' sounds like a really obvious euphemism for something dodgy. See also 'tax avoidance scheme'.
  • LDLF said:

    LDLF said:

    I now think there is all to play for in the next election. Both Truss and Starmer are, I think, slightly more profound people than they are generally given credit for, but whether they will have the opportunity to play to their strengths is not going to be up to them - this is politics, and it depends on the events that fall into their laps.

    Truss's big flaw seems to be impulsiveness, though she at least has the sense to backtrack and abandon her more batty ideas rather than stick with them. She has been in government long enough either to understand the problem, or to be a part of it - the jury is still out on which. If she does indeed think outside the box, this would be very welcome, but she has up until this campaign always supported whichever government she was a member of in public (Orange Book Coalition, Merkelite Cameroons, May's Joe Chamberlain tribute act and Boris Johnson on iPod shuffle settings) that I do not think that we are seeing the real Liz Truss in this campaign - perhaps we never will, it probably is not suitable for a family audience. Still, she has at least shown herself to be a more fleet-of-foot campaigner than Sunak, which suprises me.

    Starmer has taken his party in the right direction but has boxed himself in by framing every debate around his own personal moral character and integrity, and the idea that he takes responsibility for everything (the second of these assertions has already been somewhat tested). The result is that even the most harmless little undeclared sale of 7 acres of Surrey comes back to bite him. How would he manage heading the government, which, even when fuctioning well, has to cope with at least one big scandal, and several tiny ones, every year?

    One thing that seems clear, whoever wins the next election: both Truss and Starmer have demonstrated a remarkable and shameless capability to change their minds. Very quickly.

    You misdiagnose Starmer.

    He is obviously an effective bureaucrat, and the proof is to be seen in his career before politics; and in his subsequent clean up of the Labour Party.

    One gets the sense too that he has been effective in part by eschewing strong political positions and not seeming to rock the boat.

    But these bureaucratic strengths are likely weaknesses in retail politics.
    He doesn’t do bold.
    He doesn’t do passion.
    He doesn’t even respond to attacks head on.
    He’s not sure how growth happens, and he’s not terribly clear what his vision is, or why we should be optimistic about it.
    Starmer has indicated at least some semblance of political instincts.

    He first appealed to the Labour membership on a platform of 'Corbynism without the racist bits'. He has quickly shifted from that to attempt to appeal to the electorate as a whole; likely to be the strategy of Truss if she wants to succeed.

    He doesn't need any retail offers until the election - any before then that are any good will be pinched by the government anyway. We have yet to see his skills here in earnest, if he has them.

    But I agree that he doesn't seem to understand how economic growth works That's hardly unique in politics at the moment though. Truss seems at least curious to find out, which at the moment is the best we may hope for - I would have hoped someone might have figured it out by now, but the world is playing by new rules as far as demographics are concerned.

    He could yet end up in government by default.
    A difference between Starmer and Truss was that Starmer was able to successfully remove the Corbyn left from the levers of power in the labour party, thus enabling him to determine his only policy (that assumes he has any? - ed.)

    Truss would appear to be beholden to her right wing supporters. Will she able able to slip free from those restraints and become the mistress of all she surveys?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786
    edited August 10
    Alistair said:

    460k of turnover, 16 million costs in 2020

    In 2017 91k turnover, 3 million costs.


    W3W downloads, in millions:

    2018 1.4
    2019 4.8
    2020 11.8
    2021 30.2


    You have now bitterly criticised What 3 Words for multiple entirely different rationales, 1. that it is only doing something Google Maps already does., or 2. because it is rubbish and no better than a folding map, compass and protactor and pencil, and monocle, or 3. That it is a brutally litigious company and evil, or 4. That they stole the original idea ANYWAY, and now we have 5. That it is tiny and failing and makes no profit so nurr


    This is not a logical response, some of these are contradictory. This is pure emotion

    I can only conclude you are a Jealous Tech Bro, consumed with envy that you didn't think of this, and lashing out thereby
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,886
    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak has told the BBC he'd rather lose the Tory leadership race than "win on a false promise". Interview goes out at 7pm, early take on their website. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62496858

    1 sentence covers

    I'm going to lose
    Liz is going to be a disaster
    Told you so....
    He hasn't lost his knack of being an effective communicator then. A very efficient summation of his position, and shows he is at the very least 1/3 correct, and at most entirely correct.

    It is fun that he is now so far behind that he will face criticism for suggesting his opponent does not have the right ideas or policies, which is the whole point of a contest.

    Also funny is the continued pearl clutching about blue-on-blue attacks. Sure, there are lines to cross, and what happens when Truss (inevitably) wins, but I really get the impression that the party wants to have genuine ideological contests between solid candidates, but also doesn't want them to openly disagree with one another because that gives material to Labour.
    Debate between the candidates is important in a contest like this, but the nature of the debate is the problem. The hyperbolic language and the Twitter pile-ons simply don’t belong in an internal party discussion.

    Maybe I am just a naive expatriate, hoping that the debate would be robust but inclusive, and would bring the party together at it’s conclusion…
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,162
    xyzxyzxyz said:

    Leon said:

    I’m using W3W right this very minute. To tell one of my kids where exactly I’m parked so we can go to the vet

    ///fucking.genius.idea

    It is amazing that Google didn’t do this first, or make Google maps much easier to use in this way

    Some of the programming for what3words was done by an employee of www.betdata.io . This site uses betdata graphs and they even had an article published here once. An american logistics company invested in w3w at the time I was renting a desk from them in Bond Street.
    Plugh
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,391
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Uber has just made its FIRST tiny profit after a decade of controversial business. It is nonetheless valued at $17B

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/uber-posts-first-small-adjusted-profit-ridership-rises-delivery-gets-more-2021-11-04/

    If @MaxPB is right and their IP cannot be challenged nor easily copied, W3W could be worth enormous sums quite soon

    Profit is far less interesting than revenue. That's surely what has been driving Uber's valuation.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,856

    Scott_xP said:

    There's something compellingly brutal about just how much the @trussliz + @RishiSunak campaigns hate each other.

    These are quotes not from 'sources' but from their *official* campaign spokespeople, issued via press release.

    ❤️‍🔥 https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1557397763113029633/photo/1

    I think it is a battle between the grown up wing of the party and the Boris/juvenile wing. Sadly the grownups are going to lose again. The kids enjoy running the sweetshop and they ain't giving it up until the school governors (the electorate) come along and kick them out. The sweetshop will be out of bounds for a very long time.
    Unfortunately, for the last few years the governors have been a bit too keen on pupil voice (if you don't know, you'll be happier if it stays that way). After all if the children are happy, that's the main thing, isn't it?

    Let's just hope that the event that makes people act is only moderately bad- Year 10 caught robbing the local Post Office, say, rather than the entire science block exploding.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,216
    Scott_xP said:

    So... laying the groundwork for a future "no handouts!" U-turn without actually admitting to U-turning, with an extra helping of snark? https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/1557372635150958592

    Probably another ‘misunderstanding’
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,407
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak has told the BBC he'd rather lose the Tory leadership race than "win on a false promise". Interview goes out at 7pm, early take on their website. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62496858

    1 sentence covers

    I'm going to lose
    Liz is going to be a disaster
    Told you so....
    He hasn't lost his knack of being an effective communicator then. A very efficient summation of his position, and shows he is at the very least 1/3 correct, and at most entirely correct.

    It is fun that he is now so far behind that he will face criticism for suggesting his opponent does not have the right ideas or policies, which is the whole point of a contest.

    Also funny is the continued pearl clutching about blue-on-blue attacks. Sure, there are lines to cross, and what happens when Truss (inevitably) wins, but I really get the impression that the party wants to have genuine ideological contests between solid candidates, but also doesn't want them to openly disagree with one another because that gives material to Labour.
    Debate between the candidates is important in a contest like this, but the nature of the debate is the problem. The hyperbolic language and the Twitter pile-ons simply don’t belong in an internal party discussion.

    Maybe I am just a naive expatriate, hoping that the debate would be robust but inclusive, and would bring the party together at it’s conclusion…
    Oh I'm sure there are boundaries of civil debate being crossed in this case, but it is pretty apparent, such as from the fake excuse Sunak and Truss used about the earlier debate cancellation, that party figures openly at least are worried about even mild examples of criticism.

    It's the presence of blue on blue attacks that seems to be the greatest concern, more than their specific nature, even if the nature faces some criticism too.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,482

    Getting your official spokesperson to describe Rishi Sunak as a socialist does nothing except demonstrate that you are unhinged.

    So Sunak is a remainer socialist...... Guessing we are not getting truth back post Boris then!

    Truss is going to try to be like Johnson but can't be because only he can do it. What comes naturally to him will just seem demented coming from her. He didn't care if no-one believed him. She will. When she seeks to explain her inevitable energy payments u-turn by saying she didn't u-turn it is going to be almost unbearable to watch.

    I suspect I will quite enjoy her squirming discomfort.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,142

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Uber has just made its FIRST tiny profit after a decade of controversial business. It is nonetheless valued at $17B

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/uber-posts-first-small-adjusted-profit-ridership-rises-delivery-gets-more-2021-11-04/

    If @MaxPB is right and their IP cannot be challenged nor easily copied, W3W could be worth enormous sums quite soon

    Profit is far less interesting than revenue. That's surely what has been driving Uber's valuation.

    To some extent yes, but it is more about future value and how much investors believe this will be the market dominant force in another 10 years time. Everyone hopes too back another Facebook or Google.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697
    A
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    You've been fighting ghosts for about 6 hours now.

    I think it's great, especially for meeting up with a date in a crowd (it's like that train station clock in London everyone meets at). And, if I'd been smart,100% would've invested in it.

    But the company is a bit shit cos they advertise it as a mountain rescue tool. And the selfless, handsome, fit bastards who risk their lives to rescue people like me (but more likely, you) from hills have made it crystal clear they want a grid reference. #trusttheexperts

    Otoh, I just use WhatsApped shared location function. Which has the benefit of being spatial, follows you moving around, and can have multiple people on it. Did earlier finding gf at the fringe

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,886

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Yes, they’ll be hoping that Google and Apple get in a bidding war to make their open system proprietary.

    Sadly, that point may have passed, at least for the next year or two. The only tech M&A activity happing now is distress sales, as the VC investors can’t bear to see writedowns on their valuations.

    How would you make an open system proprietary, though? There is no patent protection you can get and there are no trade secrets you can rely on.

    At the moment, they’re making no revenue but getting their idea out there, with lots of marketing. What they’re hoping for, is that one of the big mapping tech companies wants to buy them up, to integrate into their own product and deny it to the other.

    As you say, the barriers to entry are lower than the next supermarket delivery app. The only thing in their favour, is the network effect of people using the service.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Yes, they’ll be hoping that Google and Apple get in a bidding war to make their open system proprietary.

    Sadly, that point may have passed, at least for the next year or two. The only tech M&A activity happing now is distress sales, as the VC investors can’t bear to see writedowns on their valuations.

    How would you make an open system proprietary, though? There is no patent protection you can get and there are no trade secrets you can rely on.

    Uber cannot patent its genius idea - ridesharing with GPS on smartphones (as we can see from competitors like Bolt, Lyft and so on)

    Yet Uber is worth $17B

    There is value in simply being first with a great idea, even if people then copy it

    W3W will be hoping this applies to them. If they continue with rapid growth then they will soon become the default global model for this (2-3 years?) and it will be very difficult to challenge (indeed harder than challenging Uber, maybe)

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,407

    Getting your official spokesperson to describe Rishi Sunak as a socialist does nothing except demonstrate that you are unhinged.

    So Sunak is a remainer socialist...... Guessing we are not getting truth back post Boris then!

    Truss is going to try to be like Johnson but can't be because only he can do it. What comes naturally to him will just seem demented coming from her. He didn't care if no-one believed him. She will. When she seeks to explain her inevitable energy payments u-turn by saying she didn't u-turn it is going to be almost unbearable to watch.

    An underrated but very useful talent for leaders is to u-turn and bend in the wind whilst presenting as being strong and unyielding. The lady that is not for turning probably turned quite a bit.

    Truss may naturally find that harder to manage with her personal style, but also faces the problem of making really extravagant promises in a period which will make delivering very difficult, and u-turning very obvious.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,162

    kyf_100 said:

    Alright, PB brains trust. If we can tear ourselves away from what.three.words.

    I'm freelancing/working from home at the minute so no power = no work = no get paid.

    Increasingly of the opinion that there will be blackouts this winter and looking for a cheap solution to enable me to carry on working.

    I already have a backup battery thingy that will give me a couple of charges or so on my laptop, but that is not much good if I am so cold I can't work.

    So what is the cheapest way to blackout-proof myself for the coming winter? At a bare minimum, I would need to be able to run a 500w heater, a 60w laptop charger, a light and 4g router (unless I tether off my phone, which would then also need a charger).

    Do I rig some solar thingummyjiggy to the roof of my garage? Or invest in a generator? Neighbours may not be happy with the noise, plus petrol costs etc.

    You can get some pretty good silent running genies. I would go look at MOD surplus sales as they regularly have them on there.

    One question for the tech bods out there. How robust are the UK broadband and cellphone networks as far as powercuts are concerned. Assuming you have the backup power in your own house to keep your kit going, will broadband and cellphone networks still be operational without power?
    Well you're fecked if you're on VOIP but your BB will not work without a power supply.

    As for the mobile networks, it depends if your local masts have a backup generator.
    I chap I used to work with had a shed full of batteries, solar panels and had a generator that could run on fuel oil. Apparently the neighbours joked about him.

    Until a big storm killed the power in the area for days. And the neighbours discovered that they needed leccy to run the pump for the oil. And for the igniter for their boilers…

    He was laughing…
  • FffsFffs Posts: 4

    xyzxyzxyz said:

    Leon said:

    I’m using W3W right this very minute. To tell one of my kids where exactly I’m parked so we can go to the vet

    ///fucking.genius.idea

    It is amazing that Google didn’t do this first, or make Google maps much easier to use in this way

    Some of the programming for what3words was done by an employee of www.betdata.io . This site uses betdata graphs and they even had an article published here once. An american logistics company invested in w3w at the time I was renting a desk from them in Bond Street.
    Plugh
    I believe you may be thinking of "xyzzy"
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,391
    edited August 10

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Uber has just made its FIRST tiny profit after a decade of controversial business. It is nonetheless valued at $17B

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/uber-posts-first-small-adjusted-profit-ridership-rises-delivery-gets-more-2021-11-04/

    If @MaxPB is right and their IP cannot be challenged nor easily copied, W3W could be worth enormous sums quite soon

    Profit is far less interesting than revenue. That's surely what has been driving Uber's valuation.

    To some extent yes, but it is more about future value and how much investors believe this will be the market dominant force in another 10 years time. Everyone hopes too back another Facebook or Google.

    My - admittedly limited - experience of PE is they are obsessed by future value, as you say, and that they measure that by looking at past growth. EBITDA is the one they look at most of all. they like numbers and spreadsheets, they do not invest on a whim or a gut feeling - not if they are managing other people's money.

    On the revenues that W3W are generating after five years I just don't see how you start to tell that story. If they were getting those 30 million downloads in Year One or Two, on the back of a spend of a few million quid, then maybe income would be less of an issue - but after five years?

    Maybe it is different sector by sector, but if you are a serious investor why would you bother if there are so many other less risky opportunities elsewhere?

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 27,608
    Leon said:

    Looks like @Leon's got bored of DALL.E 2 :lol:

    I'm trying to think if there's any subject on the planet he wouldn't lose his shit about.
    He reminds me of an incel virgin who sees his first pair of boobs.
    Yes.
    You can all bang on all you like about "oh I was into What 3 Words in 2014", or "a big foldy map of Yorkshire is much easier to use", but the fact is you are all spectrumy dullards who failed to notice 1. its conceptual potential and 2, how explosive this could be, and thus, how sensible it would be to invest in W3W right this moment

    That's why you need a hysteric like me on here. To "lose my shit" over and over again, and bang on about things for days on end, so you actually wake up to what is in front of you. eg If only we'd had a dude regularly losing his shit about this new virus in China in say, February 2020, we'd have been better warned
    Though to be fair a good number of us didn't bother losing our shit over it. We just got on and used it.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,142

    Scott_xP said:

    There's something compellingly brutal about just how much the @trussliz + @RishiSunak campaigns hate each other.

    These are quotes not from 'sources' but from their *official* campaign spokespeople, issued via press release.

    ❤️‍🔥 https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1557397763113029633/photo/1

    I think it is a battle between the grown up wing of the party and the Boris/juvenile wing. Sadly the grownups are going to lose again. The kids enjoy running the sweetshop and they ain't giving it up until the school governors (the electorate) come along and kick them out. The sweetshop will be out of bounds for a very long time.
    Unfortunately, for the last few years the governors have been a bit too keen on pupil voice (if you don't know, you'll be happier if it stays that way). After all if the children are happy, that's the main thing, isn't it?

    Let's just hope that the event that makes people act is only moderately bad- Year 10 caught robbing the local Post Office, say, rather than the entire science block exploding.
    It is possibly quite likely that the governors decide the sweetshop can be run by a consortium between some grownups from a number of other schools backed up by mixture of children that hopefully don't manage to rest control for at least a couple of years.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,886
    Uber has burned through a quite astonishing $26bn of cash in the past few years.
    https://moneytransfers.com/news/content/ubers-cumulative-losses-since-2014-are-approaching-26b

    That’s the best-case scenario, using all the accounting tricks in the book.

    The only people buying and selling are the retail investors (you and I), the institutional investors and VCs can’t bear to have to crystallise their losses.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,402
    Liz looks favourably on Lexit. Leigh leaving Wigan that is.
    Cost of Living.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,142
    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    You've been fighting ghosts for about 6 hours now.

    I think it's great, especially for meeting up with a date in a crowd (it's like that train station clock in London everyone meets at). And, if I'd been smart,100% would've invested in it.

    But the company is a bit shit cos they advertise it as a mountain rescue tool. And the selfless, handsome, fit bastards who risk their lives to rescue people like me (but more likely, you) from hills have made it crystal clear they want a grid reference. #trusttheexperts

    Otoh, I just use WhatsApped shared location function. Which has the benefit of being spatial, follows you moving around, and can have multiple people on it. Did earlier finding gf at the fringe

    Is "girlfriend at the fringe" a euphemism?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,340

    LDLF said:

    LDLF said:

    I now think there is all to play for in the next election. Both Truss and Starmer are, I think, slightly more profound people than they are generally given credit for, but whether they will have the opportunity to play to their strengths is not going to be up to them - this is politics, and it depends on the events that fall into their laps.

    Truss's big flaw seems to be impulsiveness, though she at least has the sense to backtrack and abandon her more batty ideas rather than stick with them. She has been in government long enough either to understand the problem, or to be a part of it - the jury is still out on which. If she does indeed think outside the box, this would be very welcome, but she has up until this campaign always supported whichever government she was a member of in public (Orange Book Coalition, Merkelite Cameroons, May's Joe Chamberlain tribute act and Boris Johnson on iPod shuffle settings) that I do not think that we are seeing the real Liz Truss in this campaign - perhaps we never will, it probably is not suitable for a family audience. Still, she has at least shown herself to be a more fleet-of-foot campaigner than Sunak, which suprises me.

    Starmer has taken his party in the right direction but has boxed himself in by framing every debate around his own personal moral character and integrity, and the idea that he takes responsibility for everything (the second of these assertions has already been somewhat tested). The result is that even the most harmless little undeclared sale of 7 acres of Surrey comes back to bite him. How would he manage heading the government, which, even when fuctioning well, has to cope with at least one big scandal, and several tiny ones, every year?

    One thing that seems clear, whoever wins the next election: both Truss and Starmer have demonstrated a remarkable and shameless capability to change their minds. Very quickly.

    You misdiagnose Starmer.

    He is obviously an effective bureaucrat, and the proof is to be seen in his career before politics; and in his subsequent clean up of the Labour Party.

    One gets the sense too that he has been effective in part by eschewing strong political positions and not seeming to rock the boat.

    But these bureaucratic strengths are likely weaknesses in retail politics.
    He doesn’t do bold.
    He doesn’t do passion.
    He doesn’t even respond to attacks head on.
    He’s not sure how growth happens, and he’s not terribly clear what his vision is, or why we should be optimistic about it.
    Starmer has indicated at least some semblance of political instincts.

    He first appealed to the Labour membership on a platform of 'Corbynism without the racist bits'. He has quickly shifted from that to attempt to appeal to the electorate as a whole; likely to be the strategy of Truss if she wants to succeed.

    He doesn't need any retail offers until the election - any before then that are any good will be pinched by the government anyway. We have yet to see his skills here in earnest, if he has them.

    But I agree that he doesn't seem to understand how economic growth works That's hardly unique in politics at the moment though. Truss seems at least curious to find out, which at the moment is the best we may hope for - I would have hoped someone might have figured it out by now, but the world is playing by new rules as far as demographics are concerned.

    He could yet end up in government by default.
    A difference between Starmer and Truss was that Starmer was able to successfully remove the Corbyn left from the levers of power in the labour party, thus enabling him to determine his only policy (that assumes he has any? - ed.)

    Truss would appear to be beholden to her right wing supporters. Will she able able to slip free from those restraints and become the mistress of all she surveys?
    Truss seems to be dependent on her right wing supporters for ideas rather than beholden to them, since she is quick to reverse ferret once she has had to concede they are rubbish.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786
    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    You've been fighting ghosts for about 6 hours now.

    I think it's great, especially for meeting up with a date in a crowd (it's like that train station clock in London everyone meets at). And, if I'd been smart,100% would've invested in it.

    But the company is a bit shit cos they advertise it as a mountain rescue tool. And the selfless, handsome, fit bastards who risk their lives to rescue people like me (but more likely, you) from hills have made it crystal clear they want a grid reference. #trusttheexperts

    Otoh, I just use WhatsApped shared location function. Which has the benefit of being spatial, follows you moving around, and can have multiple people on it. Did earlier finding gf at the fringe

    They're really not marketing it as a rescue tool - at least not now, AFAICS. This is sensible, as multiple news stories are doing all the marketing they need in that area

    "UK emergency services encourage public to download life-saving app What3Words"

    https://www.grampianonline.co.uk/news/app-helps-you-knowexactlywhere-283367/


    https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/lifeboat-saves-bacton-paddleboarder-mile-off-shore-9191448


    https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/20592922.essex-fire-service-advise-public-download-what3words-app/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/what3words-app-paramedic-rescue-scotland-b2131176.html

    They are mainly marketing it to car companies for on-board navigation, and also courier and delivery companies

    And yes, when I next - fool that I am - get lost in the Cairngorms I will be sure to have an Ordnance Survey map to hand, and a magnifying glass, so I can give the rescue services a proper grid reference with 38 digits, not some silly three word thingy that I can easily remember which gives them my location to the nearest tree
  • Leon said:

    Looks like @Leon's got bored of DALL.E 2 :lol:

    I'm trying to think if there's any subject on the planet he wouldn't lose his shit about.
    He reminds me of an incel virgin who sees his first pair of boobs.
    Yes.
    You can all bang on all you like about "oh I was into What 3 Words in 2014", or "a big foldy map of Yorkshire is much easier to use", but the fact is you are all spectrumy dullards who failed to notice 1. its conceptual potential and 2, how explosive this could be, and thus, how sensible it would be to invest in W3W right this moment

    That's why you need a hysteric like me on here. To "lose my shit" over and over again, and bang on about things for days on end, so you actually wake up to what is in front of you. eg If only we'd had a dude regularly losing his shit about this new virus in China in say, February 2020, we'd have been better warned
    Though to be fair a good number of us didn't bother losing our shit over it. We just got on and used it.
    Yes, I used it as one of the clues for a techie Easter egg hunt a couple of years ago. The kids were mildly amused.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,482
    Two takeaways from the first three minutes of the R4 6 o' clock news.

    a) Zahawi has an "oven ready" programme for the CoL crisis. "Oven ready", what could possibly go wrong?

    b) Truss "I didn't say that!" With reference to "no hand outs". Didn't she?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,856

    Scott_xP said:

    There's something compellingly brutal about just how much the @trussliz + @RishiSunak campaigns hate each other.

    These are quotes not from 'sources' but from their *official* campaign spokespeople, issued via press release.

    ❤️‍🔥 https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1557397763113029633/photo/1

    I think it is a battle between the grown up wing of the party and the Boris/juvenile wing. Sadly the grownups are going to lose again. The kids enjoy running the sweetshop and they ain't giving it up until the school governors (the electorate) come along and kick them out. The sweetshop will be out of bounds for a very long time.
    Unfortunately, for the last few years the governors have been a bit too keen on pupil voice (if you don't know, you'll be happier if it stays that way). After all if the children are happy, that's the main thing, isn't it?

    Let's just hope that the event that makes people act is only moderately bad- Year 10 caught robbing the local Post Office, say, rather than the entire science block exploding.
    It is possibly quite likely that the governors decide the sweetshop can be run by a consortium between some grownups from a number of other schools backed up by mixture of children that hopefully don't manage to rest control for at least a couple of years.
    They tried that a few years back, didn't they? It seemed to work reasonably well, but I think people found it all a bit dull.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,391
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Yes, they’ll be hoping that Google and Apple get in a bidding war to make their open system proprietary.

    Sadly, that point may have passed, at least for the next year or two. The only tech M&A activity happing now is distress sales, as the VC investors can’t bear to see writedowns on their valuations.

    How would you make an open system proprietary, though? There is no patent protection you can get and there are no trade secrets you can rely on.

    Uber cannot patent its genius idea - ridesharing with GPS on smartphones (as we can see from competitors like Bolt, Lyft and so on)

    Yet Uber is worth $17B

    There is value in simply being first with a great idea, even if people then copy it

    W3W will be hoping this applies to them. If they continue with rapid growth then they will soon become the default global model for this (2-3 years?) and it will be very difficult to challenge (indeed harder than challenging Uber, maybe)

    Yep, I guess that makes sense. But they need to keep finding the cash to burn.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,142
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    You've been fighting ghosts for about 6 hours now.

    I think it's great, especially for meeting up with a date in a crowd (it's like that train station clock in London everyone meets at). And, if I'd been smart,100% would've invested in it.

    But the company is a bit shit cos they advertise it as a mountain rescue tool. And the selfless, handsome, fit bastards who risk their lives to rescue people like me (but more likely, you) from hills have made it crystal clear they want a grid reference. #trusttheexperts

    Otoh, I just use WhatsApped shared location function. Which has the benefit of being spatial, follows you moving around, and can have multiple people on it. Did earlier finding gf at the fringe

    They're really not marketing it as a rescue tool - at least not now, AFAICS. This is sensible, as multiple news stories are doing all the marketing they need in that area

    "UK emergency services encourage public to download life-saving app What3Words"

    https://www.grampianonline.co.uk/news/app-helps-you-knowexactlywhere-283367/


    https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/lifeboat-saves-bacton-paddleboarder-mile-off-shore-9191448


    https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/20592922.essex-fire-service-advise-public-download-what3words-app/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/what3words-app-paramedic-rescue-scotland-b2131176.html

    They are mainly marketing it to car companies for on-board navigation, and also courier and delivery companies

    And yes, when I next - fool that I am - get lost in the Cairngorms I will be sure to have an Ordnance Survey map to hand, and a magnifying glass, so I can give the rescue services a proper grid reference with 38 digits, not some silly three word thingy that I can easily remember which gives them my location to the nearest tree
    Are you sure you haven't got shares in it, or are you just thinking of working it into the plot of a new novel?
  • LDLFLDLF Posts: 105

    LDLF said:

    LDLF said:

    I now think there is all to play for in the next election. Both Truss and Starmer are, I think, slightly more profound people than they are generally given credit for, but whether they will have the opportunity to play to their strengths is not going to be up to them - this is politics, and it depends on the events that fall into their laps.

    Truss's big flaw seems to be impulsiveness, though she at least has the sense to backtrack and abandon her more batty ideas rather than stick with them. She has been in government long enough either to understand the problem, or to be a part of it - the jury is still out on which. If she does indeed think outside the box, this would be very welcome, but she has up until this campaign always supported whichever government she was a member of in public (Orange Book Coalition, Merkelite Cameroons, May's Joe Chamberlain tribute act and Boris Johnson on iPod shuffle settings) that I do not think that we are seeing the real Liz Truss in this campaign - perhaps we never will, it probably is not suitable for a family audience. Still, she has at least shown herself to be a more fleet-of-foot campaigner than Sunak, which suprises me.

    Starmer has taken his party in the right direction but has boxed himself in by framing every debate around his own personal moral character and integrity, and the idea that he takes responsibility for everything (the second of these assertions has already been somewhat tested). The result is that even the most harmless little undeclared sale of 7 acres of Surrey comes back to bite him. How would he manage heading the government, which, even when fuctioning well, has to cope with at least one big scandal, and several tiny ones, every year?

    One thing that seems clear, whoever wins the next election: both Truss and Starmer have demonstrated a remarkable and shameless capability to change their minds. Very quickly.

    You misdiagnose Starmer.

    He is obviously an effective bureaucrat, and the proof is to be seen in his career before politics; and in his subsequent clean up of the Labour Party.

    One gets the sense too that he has been effective in part by eschewing strong political positions and not seeming to rock the boat.

    But these bureaucratic strengths are likely weaknesses in retail politics.
    He doesn’t do bold.
    He doesn’t do passion.
    He doesn’t even respond to attacks head on.
    He’s not sure how growth happens, and he’s not terribly clear what his vision is, or why we should be optimistic about it.
    Starmer has indicated at least some semblance of political instincts.

    He first appealed to the Labour membership on a platform of 'Corbynism without the racist bits'. He has quickly shifted from that to attempt to appeal to the electorate as a whole; likely to be the strategy of Truss if she wants to succeed.

    He doesn't need any retail offers until the election - any before then that are any good will be pinched by the government anyway. We have yet to see his skills here in earnest, if he has them.

    But I agree that he doesn't seem to understand how economic growth works That's hardly unique in politics at the moment though. Truss seems at least curious to find out, which at the moment is the best we may hope for - I would have hoped someone might have figured it out by now, but the world is playing by new rules as far as demographics are concerned.

    He could yet end up in government by default.
    A difference between Starmer and Truss was that Starmer was able to successfully remove the Corbyn left from the levers of power in the labour party, thus enabling him to determine his only policy (that assumes he has any? - ed.)

    Truss would appear to be beholden to her right wing supporters. Will she able able to slip free from those restraints and become the mistress of all she surveys?
    Well, as I say, Starmer got the leadership in the first place by appealing to the Corbynites. It is only later that he had the opportunity to shaft them.

    Truss may ultimately do the same - it might even be easier for her, because Johnson doesn't really have that many active policies to ditch either and was ditched primarily due to scandals rather than policies.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    460k of turnover, 16 million costs in 2020

    In 2017 91k turnover, 3 million costs.


    W3W downloads, in millions:

    2018 1.4
    2019 4.8
    2020 11.8
    2021 30.2


    You have now bitterly criticised What 3 Words for multiple entirely different rationales, 1. that it is only doing something Google Maps already does., or 2. because it is rubbish and no better than a folding map, compass and protactor and pencil, and monocle, or 3. That it is a brutally litigious company and evil, or 4. That they stole the original idea ANYWAY, and now we have 5. That it is tiny and failing and makes no profit so nurr


    This is not a logical response, some of these are contradictory. This is pure emotion

    I can only conclude you are a Jealous Tech Bro, consumed with envy that you didn't think of this, and lashing out thereby
    Ignoring fact I never mentioned anything about physical maps let me make it clear what my objections are:
    It is a bad implementation of an OK idea.
    Their PR is dangerously deceptive and to compensate for their bombastic PR and poor implementation they use their VC money to squash dissent via lawyer threats.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,008
    edited August 10
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    You've been fighting ghosts for about 6 hours now.

    I think it's great, especially for meeting up with a date in a crowd (it's like that train station clock in London everyone meets at). And, if I'd been smart,100% would've invested in it.

    But the company is a bit shit cos they advertise it as a mountain rescue tool. And the selfless, handsome, fit bastards who risk their lives to rescue people like me (but more likely, you) from hills have made it crystal clear they want a grid reference. #trusttheexperts

    Otoh, I just use WhatsApped shared location function. Which has the benefit of being spatial, follows you moving around, and can have multiple people on it. Did earlier finding gf at the fringe

    They're really not marketing it as a rescue tool - at least not now, AFAICS. This is sensible, as multiple news stories are doing all the marketing they need in that area

    "UK emergency services encourage public to download life-saving app What3Words"

    https://www.grampianonline.co.uk/news/app-helps-you-knowexactlywhere-283367/


    https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/lifeboat-saves-bacton-paddleboarder-mile-off-shore-9191448


    https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/20592922.essex-fire-service-advise-public-download-what3words-app/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/what3words-app-paramedic-rescue-scotland-b2131176.html

    They are mainly marketing it to car companies for on-board navigation, and also courier and delivery companies

    And yes, when I next - fool that I am - get lost in the Cairngorms I will be sure to have an Ordnance Survey map to hand, and a magnifying glass, so I can give the rescue services a proper grid reference with 38 digits, not some silly three word thingy that I can easily remember which gives them my location to the nearest tree
    It's actually two letters and six digits ... and I learned how to read a NGR off a map when I was about 11.

    This three word thingy, does it really work in the far glens of Scotland? And to what accuracy?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Yes, they’ll be hoping that Google and Apple get in a bidding war to make their open system proprietary.

    Sadly, that point may have passed, at least for the next year or two. The only tech M&A activity happing now is distress sales, as the VC investors can’t bear to see writedowns on their valuations.

    How would you make an open system proprietary, though? There is no patent protection you can get and there are no trade secrets you can rely on.

    Uber cannot patent its genius idea - ridesharing with GPS on smartphones (as we can see from competitors like Bolt, Lyft and so on)

    Yet Uber is worth $17B

    There is value in simply being first with a great idea, even if people then copy it

    W3W will be hoping this applies to them. If they continue with rapid growth then they will soon become the default global model for this (2-3 years?) and it will be very difficult to challenge (indeed harder than challenging Uber, maybe)

    Yep, I guess that makes sense. But they need to keep finding the cash to burn.
    They recently did a crowdfund asking for £1m. They got £4m after 24 hours and now have £8m. You cannot invest any more, it is oversubscribed. They are drowning in money
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,340
    Sandpit said:

    Uber has burned through a quite astonishing $26bn of cash in the past few years.
    https://moneytransfers.com/news/content/ubers-cumulative-losses-since-2014-are-approaching-26b

    That’s the best-case scenario, using all the accounting tricks in the book.

    The only people buying and selling are the retail investors (you and I), the institutional investors and VCs can’t bear to have to crystallise their losses.

    How on earth has Uber spent $26 billion? It's an app that runs a minicab office, scaled up a bit.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 675
    Liz Truss gosh not a patch on Judith Durham. Is anyone else saddened by her passing on Saturday, what a voice, I used to be in raptures and hearing tracks over the past few days brings back poignant and wonderful memories of their concerts and everything else. See she is having a State funeral, have to keep awake to watch it. "There will never be another you"
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,543

    kyf_100 said:

    Alright, PB brains trust. If we can tear ourselves away from what.three.words.

    I'm freelancing/working from home at the minute so no power = no work = no get paid.

    Increasingly of the opinion that there will be blackouts this winter and looking for a cheap solution to enable me to carry on working.

    I already have a backup battery thingy that will give me a couple of charges or so on my laptop, but that is not much good if I am so cold I can't work.

    So what is the cheapest way to blackout-proof myself for the coming winter? At a bare minimum, I would need to be able to run a 500w heater, a 60w laptop charger, a light and 4g router (unless I tether off my phone, which would then also need a charger).

    Do I rig some solar thingummyjiggy to the roof of my garage? Or invest in a generator? Neighbours may not be happy with the noise, plus petrol costs etc.

    You can get some pretty good silent running genies. I would go look at MOD surplus sales as they regularly have them on there.

    One question for the tech bods out there. How robust are the UK broadband and cellphone networks as far as powercuts are concerned. Assuming you have the backup power in your own house to keep your kit going, will broadband and cellphone networks still be operational without power?
    Well you're fecked if you're on VOIP but your BB will not work without a power supply.

    As for the mobile networks, it depends if your local masts have a backup generator.
    I chap I used to work with had a shed full of batteries, solar panels and had a generator that could run on fuel oil. Apparently the neighbours joked about him.

    Until a big storm killed the power in the area for days. And the neighbours discovered that they needed leccy to run the pump for the oil. And for the igniter for their boilers…

    He was laughing…
    I used to take the piss out of my father for hoarding like a doomsday prepper.

    Then the pandemic struck....
  • eekeek Posts: 21,808

    Two takeaways from the first three minutes of the R4 6 o' clock news.

    a) Zahawi has an "oven ready" programme for the CoL crisis. "Oven ready", what could possibly go wrong?

    b) Truss "I didn't say that!" With reference to "no hand outs". Didn't she?

    Is the oven, electric, gas or oil fired?

    has enough fuel been purchased for it to be switched on in September or will we have run out before then?
  • Sorry to bore on about music (though not sorry enough to have any plan to stop soon!)

    But..

    I want to know if anyone knows some better soul music than this from the last, say, forty years

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptpcNHC40o8

    This is Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings in the studio doing the final take of a song called Answer Me (awesome ringtone BTW!), mostly featuring Sharon and bassist/head of the label Gabe Roth

    They made an old Brooklyn townhouse into an amazing analogue recording studio

    They call it "The House Of Soul", and there's a few youtube videos about it. I like this one
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK81HgOpbuM
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,043
    LDLF said:

    LDLF said:

    LDLF said:

    I now think there is all to play for in the next election. Both Truss and Starmer are, I think, slightly more profound people than they are generally given credit for, but whether they will have the opportunity to play to their strengths is not going to be up to them - this is politics, and it depends on the events that fall into their laps.

    Truss's big flaw seems to be impulsiveness, though she at least has the sense to backtrack and abandon her more batty ideas rather than stick with them. She has been in government long enough either to understand the problem, or to be a part of it - the jury is still out on which. If she does indeed think outside the box, this would be very welcome, but she has up until this campaign always supported whichever government she was a member of in public (Orange Book Coalition, Merkelite Cameroons, May's Joe Chamberlain tribute act and Boris Johnson on iPod shuffle settings) that I do not think that we are seeing the real Liz Truss in this campaign - perhaps we never will, it probably is not suitable for a family audience. Still, she has at least shown herself to be a more fleet-of-foot campaigner than Sunak, which suprises me.

    Starmer has taken his party in the right direction but has boxed himself in by framing every debate around his own personal moral character and integrity, and the idea that he takes responsibility for everything (the second of these assertions has already been somewhat tested). The result is that even the most harmless little undeclared sale of 7 acres of Surrey comes back to bite him. How would he manage heading the government, which, even when fuctioning well, has to cope with at least one big scandal, and several tiny ones, every year?

    One thing that seems clear, whoever wins the next election: both Truss and Starmer have demonstrated a remarkable and shameless capability to change their minds. Very quickly.

    You misdiagnose Starmer.

    He is obviously an effective bureaucrat, and the proof is to be seen in his career before politics; and in his subsequent clean up of the Labour Party.

    One gets the sense too that he has been effective in part by eschewing strong political positions and not seeming to rock the boat.

    But these bureaucratic strengths are likely weaknesses in retail politics.
    He doesn’t do bold.
    He doesn’t do passion.
    He doesn’t even respond to attacks head on.
    He’s not sure how growth happens, and he’s not terribly clear what his vision is, or why we should be optimistic about it.
    Starmer has indicated at least some semblance of political instincts.

    He first appealed to the Labour membership on a platform of 'Corbynism without the racist bits'. He has quickly shifted from that to attempt to appeal to the electorate as a whole; likely to be the strategy of Truss if she wants to succeed.

    He doesn't need any retail offers until the election - any before then that are any good will be pinched by the government anyway. We have yet to see his skills here in earnest, if he has them.

    But I agree that he doesn't seem to understand how economic growth works That's hardly unique in politics at the moment though. Truss seems at least curious to find out, which at the moment is the best we may hope for - I would have hoped someone might have figured it out by now, but the world is playing by new rules as far as demographics are concerned.

    He could yet end up in government by default.
    A difference between Starmer and Truss was that Starmer was able to successfully remove the Corbyn left from the levers of power in the labour party, thus enabling him to determine his only policy (that assumes he has any? - ed.)

    Truss would appear to be beholden to her right wing supporters. Will she able able to slip free from those restraints and become the mistress of all she surveys?
    Well, as I say, Starmer got the leadership in the first place by appealing to the Corbynites. It is only later that he had the opportunity to shaft them.

    Truss may ultimately do the same - it might even be easier for her, because Johnson doesn't really have that many active policies to ditch either and was ditched primarily due to scandals rather than policies.
    He didn't really, Long Bailey was his main opponent and the Corbynite candidate. Truss however is the ERG candidate
  • eekeek Posts: 21,808

    Sandpit said:

    Uber has burned through a quite astonishing $26bn of cash in the past few years.
    https://moneytransfers.com/news/content/ubers-cumulative-losses-since-2014-are-approaching-26b

    That’s the best-case scenario, using all the accounting tricks in the book.

    The only people buying and selling are the retail investors (you and I), the institutional investors and VCs can’t bear to have to crystallise their losses.

    How on earth has Uber spent $26 billion? It's an app that runs a minicab office, scaled up a bit.
    That's easy

    1) Subsidising every journey as they enter an area to drive the other firms out of business either by offering low prices or bonus payments to drivers or both.

    2) Ignoring legal issues until they are 2 late - at some point Uber is got a £2bn VAT bill to pay in the UK

    3) political lobbying doesn't come cheap

    4) attacking reporters to ensure problems aren't reported also doesn't come cheap.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Uber has just made its FIRST tiny profit after a decade of controversial business. It is nonetheless valued at $17B

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/uber-posts-first-small-adjusted-profit-ridership-rises-delivery-gets-more-2021-11-04/

    If @MaxPB is right and their IP cannot be challenged nor easily copied, W3W could be worth enormous sums quite soon

    Profit is far less interesting than revenue. That's surely what has been driving Uber's valuation.

    To some extent yes, but it is more about future value and how much investors believe this will be the market dominant force in another 10 years time. Everyone hopes too back another Facebook or Google.

    My - admittedly limited - experience of PE is they are obsessed by future value, as you say, and that they measure that by looking at past growth. EBITDA is the one they look at most of all. they like numbers and spreadsheets, they do not invest on a whim or a gut feeling - not if they are managing other people's money.

    On the revenues that W3W are generating after five years I just don't see how you start to tell that story. If they were getting those 30 million downloads in Year One or Two, on the back of a spend of a few million quid, then maybe income would be less of an issue - but after five years?

    Maybe it is different sector by sector, but if you are a serious investor why would you bother if there are so many other less risky opportunities elsewhere?

    How often do you get a genuinely revolutionary app which appeals to every human on earth (who likes being lost? Who likes it when deliveries go wrong? Who likes losing their girlfriend/car/tent/child/parent in crowds?)

    The potential is fucking enormous. If this works as it could, if it becomes ubiquitous, it will be one of the most successful apps in history. It could change the way we all think about location and place. Three simple memorable words = where you are, exactly

    That's what you are punting on, if you are an optimist. And even if it doesn't do that, it is likely to be bought by Google or Apple for a tidy profit. That's why you invest
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,391
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Yes, they’ll be hoping that Google and Apple get in a bidding war to make their open system proprietary.

    Sadly, that point may have passed, at least for the next year or two. The only tech M&A activity happing now is distress sales, as the VC investors can’t bear to see writedowns on their valuations.

    How would you make an open system proprietary, though? There is no patent protection you can get and there are no trade secrets you can rely on.

    Uber cannot patent its genius idea - ridesharing with GPS on smartphones (as we can see from competitors like Bolt, Lyft and so on)

    Yet Uber is worth $17B

    There is value in simply being first with a great idea, even if people then copy it

    W3W will be hoping this applies to them. If they continue with rapid growth then they will soon become the default global model for this (2-3 years?) and it will be very difficult to challenge (indeed harder than challenging Uber, maybe)

    Yep, I guess that makes sense. But they need to keep finding the cash to burn.
    They recently did a crowdfund asking for £1m. They got £4m after 24 hours and now have £8m. You cannot invest any more, it is oversubscribed. They are drowning in money

    Right, that makes sense. What were they offering in return for the cash?

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,142
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Yes, they’ll be hoping that Google and Apple get in a bidding war to make their open system proprietary.

    Sadly, that point may have passed, at least for the next year or two. The only tech M&A activity happing now is distress sales, as the VC investors can’t bear to see writedowns on their valuations.

    How would you make an open system proprietary, though? There is no patent protection you can get and there are no trade secrets you can rely on.

    Uber cannot patent its genius idea - ridesharing with GPS on smartphones (as we can see from competitors like Bolt, Lyft and so on)

    Yet Uber is worth $17B

    There is value in simply being first with a great idea, even if people then copy it

    W3W will be hoping this applies to them. If they continue with rapid growth then they will soon become the default global model for this (2-3 years?) and it will be very difficult to challenge (indeed harder than challenging Uber, maybe)

    Yep, I guess that makes sense. But they need to keep finding the cash to burn.
    They recently did a crowdfund asking for £1m. They got £4m after 24 hours and now have £8m. You cannot invest any more, it is oversubscribed. They are drowning in money
    If you want to pay for their report you might find the next W3W:

    https://www.fool.com/investing/stock-market/market-sectors/information-technology/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,886
    edited August 10

    Sandpit said:

    Uber has burned through a quite astonishing $26bn of cash in the past few years.
    https://moneytransfers.com/news/content/ubers-cumulative-losses-since-2014-are-approaching-26b

    That’s the best-case scenario, using all the accounting tricks in the book.

    The only people buying and selling are the retail investors (you and I), the institutional investors and VCs can’t bear to have to crystallise their losses.

    How on earth has Uber spent $26 billion? It's an app that runs a minicab office, scaled up a bit.
    Super Bowl adverts, millions of promotional fares, a few billion in self-driving cars that went nowhere except killing people, a few billion more in lawyers and lobbyists, a few billion more when the lawsuits and lobbyists failed, big salaries for executives, dozens of acquisitions of anything that looked like competition…
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786
    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    460k of turnover, 16 million costs in 2020

    In 2017 91k turnover, 3 million costs.


    W3W downloads, in millions:

    2018 1.4
    2019 4.8
    2020 11.8
    2021 30.2


    You have now bitterly criticised What 3 Words for multiple entirely different rationales, 1. that it is only doing something Google Maps already does., or 2. because it is rubbish and no better than a folding map, compass and protactor and pencil, and monocle, or 3. That it is a brutally litigious company and evil, or 4. That they stole the original idea ANYWAY, and now we have 5. That it is tiny and failing and makes no profit so nurr


    This is not a logical response, some of these are contradictory. This is pure emotion

    I can only conclude you are a Jealous Tech Bro, consumed with envy that you didn't think of this, and lashing out thereby
    Ignoring fact I never mentioned anything about physical maps let me make it clear what my objections are:
    It is a bad implementation of an OK idea.
    Their PR is dangerously deceptive and to compensate for their bombastic PR and poor implementation they use their VC money to squash dissent via lawyer threats.
    "OK idea"


    lol
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 2,010
    theakes said:

    Liz Truss gosh not a patch on Judith Durham. Is anyone else saddened by her passing on Saturday, what a voice, I used to be in raptures and hearing tracks over the past few days brings back poignant and wonderful memories of their concerts and everything else. See she is having a State funeral, have to keep awake to watch it. "There will never be another you"

    I don't really do 60s music but 'The Carnival Is Over' = top track.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,391
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Uber has just made its FIRST tiny profit after a decade of controversial business. It is nonetheless valued at $17B

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/uber-posts-first-small-adjusted-profit-ridership-rises-delivery-gets-more-2021-11-04/

    If @MaxPB is right and their IP cannot be challenged nor easily copied, W3W could be worth enormous sums quite soon

    Profit is far less interesting than revenue. That's surely what has been driving Uber's valuation.

    To some extent yes, but it is more about future value and how much investors believe this will be the market dominant force in another 10 years time. Everyone hopes too back another Facebook or Google.

    My - admittedly limited - experience of PE is they are obsessed by future value, as you say, and that they measure that by looking at past growth. EBITDA is the one they look at most of all. they like numbers and spreadsheets, they do not invest on a whim or a gut feeling - not if they are managing other people's money.

    On the revenues that W3W are generating after five years I just don't see how you start to tell that story. If they were getting those 30 million downloads in Year One or Two, on the back of a spend of a few million quid, then maybe income would be less of an issue - but after five years?

    Maybe it is different sector by sector, but if you are a serious investor why would you bother if there are so many other less risky opportunities elsewhere?

    How often do you get a genuinely revolutionary app which appeals to every human on earth (who likes being lost? Who likes it when deliveries go wrong? Who likes losing their girlfriend/car/tent/child/parent in crowds?)

    The potential is fucking enormous. If this works as it could, if it becomes ubiquitous, it will be one of the most successful apps in history. It could change the way we all think about location and place. Three simple memorable words = where you are, exactly

    That's what you are punting on, if you are an optimist. And even if it doesn't do that, it is likely to be bought by Google or Apple for a tidy profit. That's why you invest

    Yep, I get all that. It's potentially a great idea. In my experience, though, serious investors do not invest on that basis. They need more. The crowdfunding makes sense, but if they are giving away equity or promising some other kind of return to those who are providing cash that dilutes their ownership and so makes them less interesting to the serious investors. None of that means it will not explode into the big-time, of course - it just makes it a whole lot harder.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Yes, they’ll be hoping that Google and Apple get in a bidding war to make their open system proprietary.

    Sadly, that point may have passed, at least for the next year or two. The only tech M&A activity happing now is distress sales, as the VC investors can’t bear to see writedowns on their valuations.

    How would you make an open system proprietary, though? There is no patent protection you can get and there are no trade secrets you can rely on.

    Uber cannot patent its genius idea - ridesharing with GPS on smartphones (as we can see from competitors like Bolt, Lyft and so on)

    Yet Uber is worth $17B

    There is value in simply being first with a great idea, even if people then copy it

    W3W will be hoping this applies to them. If they continue with rapid growth then they will soon become the default global model for this (2-3 years?) and it will be very difficult to challenge (indeed harder than challenging Uber, maybe)

    Yep, I guess that makes sense. But they need to keep finding the cash to burn.
    They recently did a crowdfund asking for £1m. They got £4m after 24 hours and now have £8m. You cannot invest any more, it is oversubscribed. They are drowning in money
    They have a year and a half of cash in hand at current burn rate at the latest accounts
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    You've been fighting ghosts for about 6 hours now.

    I think it's great, especially for meeting up with a date in a crowd (it's like that train station clock in London everyone meets at). And, if I'd been smart,100% would've invested in it.

    But the company is a bit shit cos they advertise it as a mountain rescue tool. And the selfless, handsome, fit bastards who risk their lives to rescue people like me (but more likely, you) from hills have made it crystal clear they want a grid reference. #trusttheexperts

    Otoh, I just use WhatsApped shared location function. Which has the benefit of being spatial, follows you moving around, and can have multiple people on it. Did earlier finding gf at the fringe

    They're really not marketing it as a rescue tool - at least not now, AFAICS. This is sensible, as multiple news stories are doing all the marketing they need in that area

    "UK emergency services encourage public to download life-saving app What3Words"

    https://www.grampianonline.co.uk/news/app-helps-you-knowexactlywhere-283367/


    https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/lifeboat-saves-bacton-paddleboarder-mile-off-shore-9191448


    https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/20592922.essex-fire-service-advise-public-download-what3words-app/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/what3words-app-paramedic-rescue-scotland-b2131176.html

    They are mainly marketing it to car companies for on-board navigation, and also courier and delivery companies

    And yes, when I next - fool that I am - get lost in the Cairngorms I will be sure to have an Ordnance Survey map to hand, and a magnifying glass, so I can give the rescue services a proper grid reference with 38 digits, not some silly three word thingy that I can easily remember which gives them my location to the nearest tree
    It's actually two letters and six digits ... and I learned how to read a NGR off a map when I was about 11.

    This three word thingy, does it really work in the far glens of Scotland? And to what accuracy?
    Yes, it really works

    "Here is a precise what3words address, made of 3 random words. Every 3 metre square in the world has its own unique what3words address.

    ///bland.cowering.spots
    https://w3w.co/bland.cowering.spots "


    ///bland.cowering.spots is inside the public bar of Eilean Iarmain, by the slot machine: that's a brilliant pub in Isle Ornsay on the Sleat peninsula in Skye, which looks out to Knoydart

    Note the specificity. It isn't a bit of road, or a section of village, or a house number, it is a 3sq m space inside that bar, by the crisps
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,391
    theakes said:

    Liz Truss gosh not a patch on Judith Durham. Is anyone else saddened by her passing on Saturday, what a voice, I used to be in raptures and hearing tracks over the past few days brings back poignant and wonderful memories of their concerts and everything else. See she is having a State funeral, have to keep awake to watch it. "There will never be another you"

    Stunning voice. The Seekers were the Sixties that most people lived through.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786
    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Yes, they’ll be hoping that Google and Apple get in a bidding war to make their open system proprietary.

    Sadly, that point may have passed, at least for the next year or two. The only tech M&A activity happing now is distress sales, as the VC investors can’t bear to see writedowns on their valuations.

    How would you make an open system proprietary, though? There is no patent protection you can get and there are no trade secrets you can rely on.

    Uber cannot patent its genius idea - ridesharing with GPS on smartphones (as we can see from competitors like Bolt, Lyft and so on)

    Yet Uber is worth $17B

    There is value in simply being first with a great idea, even if people then copy it

    W3W will be hoping this applies to them. If they continue with rapid growth then they will soon become the default global model for this (2-3 years?) and it will be very difficult to challenge (indeed harder than challenging Uber, maybe)

    Yep, I guess that makes sense. But they need to keep finding the cash to burn.
    They recently did a crowdfund asking for £1m. They got £4m after 24 hours and now have £8m. You cannot invest any more, it is oversubscribed. They are drowning in money
    They have a year and a half of cash in hand at current burn rate at the latest accounts
    You have some personal, bitter hatred for them. I suggest we desist as it's not good for your blood pressure
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Yes, they’ll be hoping that Google and Apple get in a bidding war to make their open system proprietary.

    Sadly, that point may have passed, at least for the next year or two. The only tech M&A activity happing now is distress sales, as the VC investors can’t bear to see writedowns on their valuations.

    How would you make an open system proprietary, though? There is no patent protection you can get and there are no trade secrets you can rely on.

    Uber cannot patent its genius idea - ridesharing with GPS on smartphones (as we can see from competitors like Bolt, Lyft and so on)

    Yet Uber is worth $17B

    There is value in simply being first with a great idea, even if people then copy it

    W3W will be hoping this applies to them. If they continue with rapid growth then they will soon become the default global model for this (2-3 years?) and it will be very difficult to challenge (indeed harder than challenging Uber, maybe)

    Yep, I guess that makes sense. But they need to keep finding the cash to burn.
    They recently did a crowdfund asking for £1m. They got £4m after 24 hours and now have £8m. You cannot invest any more, it is oversubscribed. They are drowning in money
    They have a year and a half of cash in hand at current burn rate at the latest accounts
    You have some personal, bitter hatred for them. I suggest we desist as it's not good for your blood pressure
    I'm sorry factual statements about their financials hurt you so much.
  • eekeek Posts: 21,808
    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    As for how W3W makes money, that's an interesting question

    But one obvious way is advertising on the app. If everyone in the world downloads the app then that's 8bn pairs of eyes on one app, and tiny fleeting ads will still make huge money

    And of course you could tailor the ads to where people are going

    Are you looking for ///octupus.scarlet.bra ? You know there's a lovely restaurant 3 yards from here that just got a rave review? Here's a new cheaper supermarket. This bar next door has a happy hour

    You could even direct info to people inside buildings

    "Yes, it's nice in that corner of the bar (///fake.dildo.knapper) but we also have a beer garden, which is empty right now"

    I remember when I first saw Vivino I thought "wow, this is so clever, but how on earth do they make cash?" - of course a couple of years later they started selling their own recommended wines. Easy, really

    The W3W business model is to license the tech to everyone for very low rates, and to get everyone hooked on it. Later, when it is ubiquitous, they raise the cost per lookup from 0.1c to 3c (or whatever).

    I don't foresee any likelihood they will be able to dethrone Google Maps, nor would they want to try. That's absurdly expensive, people will only use one mapping app, and traffic info is more useful than the three word thing.
    They expressly say they are trying to complement Google Maps, not compete with it

    Another part of its genius (I'll stop in a minute) is the way it sells itself. There are endless news stories like this (from Canada, four days ago):


    "A woman was belaying with a group of climbers at the base of a 70-foot cliff near the Buffalo Crag Lookout when a falling rock struck her. Early reports indicate the rock caused an injury to her arm, ribs and head.



    "The area is in a remote section of the park, along a dirt trail more than one kilometre away from the nearest road and the resulting rescue took an estimated two hours. Police, firefighters and EMS all responded, and were able to locate the injured woman using the newly rolled out what3words app."

    https://www.thestar.com/local-milton/news/2022/08/05/milton-rock-climbing-incident-leaves-woman-with-serious-injuries.html

    Everyone will want this app. Literally, everyone. Just in case. It *could* become as ubiquitous as Uber, or even bigger (if Google doesn't try to crush them)
    You do know know that this has been around for years, even though you’ve just discovered it today?

    You’re like the 13-year-old boy who just found out there’s porn on the internet.
    I presume you invested heavily back in 2017, then, and you are now sitting on a profit of several million quid?
    Nope, becuase:

    1. In 2017, I didn’t have two beans to rub together, trying to get my own business off the ground.

    2. Like so many of the last decade’s VC-funded tech startups, it’s difficult to see how they ever plan to turn a profit, nor what is their business model, beyond hoping the next sucker buys in at a higher price and the wages keep getting paid.
    Their VC investors will be hoping they are bought by Google or other tech giant. That will almost certainly happen, hence the crazy valuation sans profits, unless there is some kind of technical or intellectual property problem between now and then.
    Yes, they’ll be hoping that Google and Apple get in a bidding war to make their open system proprietary.

    Sadly, that point may have passed, at least for the next year or two. The only tech M&A activity happing now is distress sales, as the VC investors can’t bear to see writedowns on their valuations.

    How would you make an open system proprietary, though? There is no patent protection you can get and there are no trade secrets you can rely on.

    Uber cannot patent its genius idea - ridesharing with GPS on smartphones (as we can see from competitors like Bolt, Lyft and so on)

    Yet Uber is worth $17B

    There is value in simply being first with a great idea, even if people then copy it

    W3W will be hoping this applies to them. If they continue with rapid growth then they will soon become the default global model for this (2-3 years?) and it will be very difficult to challenge (indeed harder than challenging Uber, maybe)

    Yep, I guess that makes sense. But they need to keep finding the cash to burn.
    They recently did a crowdfund asking for £1m. They got £4m after 24 hours and now have £8m. You cannot invest any more, it is oversubscribed. They are drowning in money
    They have a year and a half of cash in hand at current burn rate at the latest accounts
    You have some personal, bitter hatred for them. I suggest we desist as it's not good for your blood pressure
    No we just have a better understanding of how these sort of companies work....
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