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Sunak appears to be abandoning the RedWall – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,891
    The extent of performative self-pity on the US MAGA right is quite extraordinary.

    https://twitter.com/LauraJedeed/status/1555557890806644738
    Hello I would like to share with you the most astonishing thing I have ever seen

    At this CPAC booth you receive a silent disco headset that plays harrowing testimony from people arrested for participating in J6

    Instead of dancing, you stand around and watch this guy cry...

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,876
    Why, apart from the obvious, this obsession with Kari Lake?
    She's trails in every poll. There must be other unlikely Governors of medium sized US States talk about.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    kinabalu said:

    Sense she's another narcissist on the make. And of course we now know such a person CAN be president outside of Ballard novels. So not a completely crazy suggestion.

    But my point - re this 'bitchslapping journos" ability that you're celebrating - is whether it's a quality or a vice depends on what she's reacting to.

    Eg in British terms:

    Labour politician being hassled with the tedious "What is a woman?" question by Kay Burley. They bitchslap her. GOOD.

    Labour politician being asked wtf does Starmer mean by "strong secure peaceful fair growth?" by - yes why not - Kay Burley. They bitchslap her. BAD.

    Bet Lake is all about the 2nd sort. Using a facility for sarcasm and putdown to avoid scrutiny.
    You are mentally incapable of examining an issue without your narrow moralising mindset intruding

    IF I said "Hitler made powerful speeches" you'd say, "Yes, but he killed 6m Jews so they were bad speeches"

    What's the point? Debating with you is like debating with a highly educated child

    I'm off to the gym. Later
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,891
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Grifter?!

    "a person who engages in petty or small-scale swindling."

    No. Not a grifter. Wrong usage. Bzzzt
    Not really.
    Petty swindling on a larger stage - that's Trump exactly.

    I don't have you down as a pedant.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    edited August 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Not really.
    Petty swindling on a larger stage - that's Trump exactly.
    No, you just didn't understand the term


    EDIT: I am wrong. I just checked. People have, recently, been using grifter to mean a politician who is in politics solely to make money

    https://politicaldictionary.com/words/grifter/

    I deplore this usage. The word grifter should be reserved for petty swindlers, because it captures them brilliantly. There are surely better words for greedy political charlatans. But I can't argue with the usage of the language
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,243
    Carnyx said:

    It must be admitted that the PCW started off by throwing together a design based on, IIRC, a job lot of non-standard three-inch (?) disc drives that had lost out to competition with the smaller PC format disc and were knocking around at minimal cost. I rather suspect everyone was very surprised when the PCW turned out to be so popular that they had to put the disc drives back into production! (Though I adapted mine with a PC 5.25" drive as well.) I don't suppose the little green screen was very high tech even then, either.

    It wasn't. Certainly the screens on the CPC (Amstrad's first computer range, before the PCW) were TV-grade displays, not monitor-grade displays. It was the CPC that started the 3-inch thing and for exactly the reason you say.

    But it was a well-designed piece of kit even so. I wrote a piece of software for the PCW which sold reasonably well in its latter days!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    Nigelb said:

    Not really.
    Petty swindling on a larger stage - that's Trump exactly.

    I don't have you down as a pedant.
    I was wrong. You were right. Grifting is indeed used the way you use it (see below)

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,401
    Leon said:

    I was wrong. You were right. Grifting is indeed used the way you use it (see below)

    Thought you'd gone to pump iron?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,034
    MrEd said:

    Gasoline prices have been coming down for 50 days+ in a row in the US. Even I am starting to think things are looking better for the Ds in November (however, I still think they will lose the House and the Senate is on a knife-edge).
    I think they will lose the House pretty badly. But I think selling the Republicans for Senate control is a great bet, especially given the wildcard of Utah.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,017
    Nigelb said:

    The extent of performative self-pity on the US MAGA right is quite extraordinary.

    https://twitter.com/LauraJedeed/status/1555557890806644738
    Hello I would like to share with you the most astonishing thing I have ever seen

    At this CPAC booth you receive a silent disco headset that plays harrowing testimony from people arrested for participating in J6

    Instead of dancing, you stand around and watch this guy cry...

    Presidential pardons on their way in 2025!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,034

    His "thing" was buying companies and slowly running them into the ground, going for the lowest possible quality.

    The reason that Lord Sugar didn't get anywhere in UK politics is that he wasn't up for the time and effort of becoming an MP.
    The original Amstrad - makers of CPC and PCW computers - was built from the ground up.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited August 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Why, apart from the obvious, this obsession with Kari Lake?
    She's trails in every poll. There must be other unlikely Governors of medium sized US States talk about.

    There havent been many. She led in one in February, Hobbs now has a 5 point lead. The trouble with the polling is its hypotheticals - almost 100% certain to be Hobbs defending but then against a maybe or maybe opponent which always skews things as Lake supporters wont say Robson and vice versa but may do now the race is settled. I anticipate the polling closing in to a dead heat now the head to head is clarified. The republicans had a record turnout for the primaries so unless Robson supporters switch i think Lake has a very good chance as does Masters against Kelly for Senate (same hypothetical polling issue there before now too)
  • Your rants about God are increasingly tedious.

    We all know that you are a militant atheist.

    Others are believers. How about you practice some of those libertarian ideals and let them do what the fuck they like without insulting them?
    Rants? It was a joke.

    Maybe you didn't find it a funny joke, but that's a different question. I don't care what religious people do in private but making a pun or joke related to what someone else just said is sometimes half of what we do here.

    If I wanted to be insulting, I could be much more insulting than that. But it was just a joke.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,017

    I think you just flip it around.

    * 10% of MP base required to be nominated as a candidate (so max 10 as each MP can only nominate 1)
    * All candidates (so max 10) go to the membership for a vote
    * Top 5 (I would suggest STV) selected by members for the final round
    * MPs then have 2 rounds of voting using FPTP: 5>3 and then 3>1

    Add the members vote to the MPs and in case of a tie give Shirley Ballas the casting vote.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    edited August 2022
    The response of the Chairman of the Tory Northern Research Group to Sunak's comments:

    "In public
    @RishiSunak
    claims he wants to level up the North, but here, he boasts about trying to funnel vital investment away from deprived areas?"

    https://twitter.com/JakeBerry/status/1555507873395970049?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1555507873395970049|twgr^45326261ee3397da17f81a6abec1753ac1c08c9f|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/aug/05/kwasi-kwarteng-boris-johnson-nadhim-zahawi-economy-recession-liz-truss-rishi-sunak-tory-leadership-uk-politics-live

    He's got one thing wrong though. Sunak didn't say he was trying to take investment away from deprived areas, he said that he'd been instrumental in Johnson's government actually doing that for the last three years.

    If any more Tory MPs from the Red Wall wish to defect to Labour, they've just been handed the perfect pretext for doing so.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,226
    The Gasbuddy blog posts look like an accurate picture of changing gas prices in the US.
    https://www.gasbuddy.com/go/blog

    They appear to be updated every Monday; Here's the latest:
    'For the seventh straight week, the nation’s average gas price has declined, falling 15.9 cents from a week ago to $4.17 per gallon today according to GasBuddy data compiled from more than 11 million individual price reports covering over 150,000 gas stations across the country. The national average is down 65.5 cents from a month ago and $1.02 per gallon higher than a year ago. The national average price of diesel has declined 14.8 cents in the last week and stands at $5.27 per gallon.

    “We continue to see average gas prices falling in every state, with the national average down for the seventh straight week. Even better, nearly 20 states have also seen their average decline to $3.99 or less, with over 70,000 stations now at that level or below,” said Patrick De Haan, head of petroleum analysis at GasBuddy. “The outlook is for a continued drop in most areas, however, some supply tightness in areas of the Northeastern U.S. could push prices up slightly until inventories rise, or imports do. For now, Americans are seeing prices nearly 90 cents lower than their mid-June peak and are spending close to $330 million less on gasoline every day as a result. As long as oil prices hold at these levels or lower, we’ll see another decline in most areas this week.”'

    (The main site allows people in the US to find the lowest gas rices in their area.)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,017
    HYUFD said:

    The 2 worst defeats the Tories suffered since universal suffrage were under Major in 1997 and Hague in 2001.

    Now Major was not too bad a PM and part of that was down to Blair having more appeal than any Labour leader before to Middle England but neither were exactly great leaders of the party
    The lesson that should be remembered from that period is that the Tories, who should be the natural party of government, became unpopular when they went down an ideological rabbit hole and got mired in a succession of silly scandals. Not how those leaders were elected.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,034
    On the subject of Arizona, I am a massive Doug Ducey fan. He has been an outstanding Governor, who has governed for all Arizonans, and ran a business friendly state, while also investing in improving public services.

    If he were running again, he would walk reelection.

    I am not enamored by Ms Lake. Or the Democrat. If I had to choose, I would choose the Dem, because they don't seem to live in crazy election denial world.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,034
    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of Arizona, I am a massive Doug Ducey fan. He has been an outstanding Governor, who has governed for all Arizonans, and ran a business friendly state, while also investing in improving public services.

    If he were running again, he would walk reelection.

    I am not enamored by Ms Lake. Or the Democrat. If I had to choose, I would choose the Dem, because they don't seem to live in crazy election denial world.

    Whoever wins, it will probably not be good for my business.
  • Entirely off-topic but entertaining (to me anyway). Bought a new phone. Was offered trade-in. On the list was "Moto G 2nd Gen 64GB". If you know your budget Moto phones from a decade ago you may remember the G2. I had one sat in the drawer, checked it powered on and wasn't damaged (miraculously after the life it has had...) and sent it in. As it was apparently worth £70!!!!!

    They have just responded back valuing it at £0 (which matches my own). What puzzles me is that they are disputing what I sent - UNKNOWN MODEL. Well yes, because the model you list does not exist. 64GB of memory wasn't a thing in budget handsets in 2014. So yes, it doesn't match the description because nothing does.

    Anyway, they are posting it back to me! Tracked 24 each way plus time checking the handset isn't cheap, so I assume they make £dollah from somewhere. Not remotely bothered that they aren't paying me £lots for a phone that was living a happy retirement in my drawer, but a little puzzled as to what they think they are asking for. Various dinosaurs also on the list which I assume are also not worth the values their website shows...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    There havent been many. She led in one in February, Hobbs now has a 5 point lead. The trouble with the polling is its hypotheticals - almost 100% certain to be Hobbs defending but then against a maybe or maybe opponent which always skews things as Lake supporters wont say Robson and vice versa but may do now the race is settled. I anticipate the polling closing in to a dead heat now the head to head is clarified. The republicans had a record turnout for the primaries so unless Robson supporters switch i think Lake has a very good chance as does Masters against Kelly for Senate (same hypothetical polling issue there before now too)
    Whoops, Hobbs is SoS not governor of course, but she was hot favourite to get the nod wheras the repub battke was always a bum pincher
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited August 2022

    It wasn't. Certainly the screens on the CPC (Amstrad's first computer range, before the PCW) were TV-grade displays, not monitor-grade displays. It was the CPC that started the 3-inch thing and for exactly the reason you say.

    But it was a well-designed piece of kit even so. I wrote a piece of software for the PCW which sold reasonably well in its latter days!
    Yes, of course you're right about the CPC pioneering the little discs - had forgotten about that. I used my external PC disc drive to read/write to PC disc so I could send in articles to magazines on their format, using the Royal Mail.

    The [edit] PCW printer wasn't great - a basic dot matrix with typewriter style ribbon. But running it as a dedicated addon from inside the computer saved a lot of gubbins in the printer, and therefore money. All in all just what people needed for a home office without too much tricky techy stuff. My elderly mum and her cousin both got one and it was a lead-in to a more conventional PC in later years for them and others.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,133
    edited August 2022
    FPT

    Message to OGH: Conservative voting letter arrived today.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,934
    Off Topic

    Gordon Bennett! The BBC are offloading top presenters left right and centre, and yet the utterly abject Paddy O'Connell in on EVERYTHING! He's on Radio 2 whenever Vine is away and he's on any old nonsense like Broadcasting House that Radio 4 can muster, but today this total halfwit is on R4 PM AND Any Questions? Why? He's dreadful.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Leon said:

    You are mentally incapable of examining an issue without your narrow moralising mindset intruding

    IF I said "Hitler made powerful speeches" you'd say, "Yes, but he killed 6m Jews so they were bad speeches"

    What's the point? Debating with you is like debating with a highly educated child

    I'm off to the gym. Later
    That's a genuinely dim and disappointing response. My point - that whether a facility for putting down questioners is a good or a bad thing depends on the reason it's being deployed - has nothing to do with moralizing and wasn't (imo) hard to grasp. But you seemed not to, so I illustrated it, went the extra mile.

    But ok, if all you want to do is pronounce droolingly that this new love object of yours - Kari Lake - is terrific at "bitchslapping journos", end of, rather than talk about it and explore it a little bit, that's fine by me. Great. Very interesting. Thanks for the linked clip. Give the man a biscuit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    dixiedean said:

    Why, apart from the obvious, this obsession with Kari Lake?
    She's trails in every poll. There must be other unlikely Governors of medium sized US States talk about.

    She has a much better chance than that. And part of the reason she has a decent chance is the same reason she is interesting: for a political novice she is extremely confident and assured, and quite compelling on TV. She knows how to use the medium. She’s an ex tv anchor

    If you had to construct the perfect Trumpite female prez candidate it would look something like Lake. Attractive, plausible, lucid, combative. White soccer mom with guns. She has a supportive husband and apparently nice kids. She’s a smarter, cannier Sarah Palin with less baggage

    So she is INTERESTING. We shouldn’t turn away from interesting if distantly placed candidates out of dislike

    If she wins in November she becomes a real player
  • Carnyx said:

    Yes, of course you're right about the CPC pioneering the little discs - had forgotten about that. I used my external PC disc drive to read/write to PC disc so I could send in articles to magazines on their format, using the Royal Mail.

    The [edit] PCW printer wasn't great - a basic dot matrix with typewriter style ribbon. But running it as a dedicated addon from inside the computer saved a lot of gubbins in the printer, and therefore money. All in all just what people needed for a home office without too much tricky techy stuff. My elderly mum and her cousin both got one and it was a lead-in to a more conventional PC in later years for them and others.
    I don't know why Amstrad / Sugar gets bad press. He built a stack of affordable hifi/TV gear which got technology into homes that probably wouldn't have been here had the big brands kept prices high. And his computers absolutely demolished a price floor that kept PCs out of normal people's reach. It was only the duff HDD saga (not their fault) that properly sunk them.

    Yes he is an arsehole. But what does that have to do with big business? They're almost ALL arseholes. That's how you get to run a big business...
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,729

    The lesson that should be remembered from that period is that the Tories, who should be the natural party of government, became unpopular when they went down an ideological rabbit hole and got mired in a succession of silly scandals. Not how those leaders were elected.
    Labour also appointed the most centrist leader in their postwar history.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,222
    edited August 2022
    kjh said:

    I think that is a bit tough on Major. You could have had Good as leader in 1997 and you weren't going to win.

    I think @MarqueeMark evidence speaks for itself.
    Having Good/God as leader against Blair would have been fun.

    "Yes, I know Tony Blair. I bloody created him. And take it from me, he's a wrong 'un..."

    "Well, I'm still going to vote for h - "

    BOOOOOOM

    "Erm, my Lord, I think there is a risk of a backlash if you smite everyone who isn't a possible...."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    I don't know why Amstrad / Sugar gets bad press. He built a stack of affordable hifi/TV gear which got technology into homes that probably wouldn't have been here had the big brands kept prices high. And his computers absolutely demolished a price floor that kept PCs out of normal people's reach. It was only the duff HDD saga (not their fault) that properly sunk them.

    Yes he is an arsehole. But what does that have to do with big business? They're almost ALL arseholes. That's how you get to run a big business...
    Quite - he has a small but real place in my family's collective heart for his PCWs. Plenty of good karma for that, whatever one might think of that apprentice TV series (have never seen it myself anyway).
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,667
    HYUFD said:

    The only areas where most voters would not only want to rejoin the EU but join the Euro too are in inner London and university cities elsewhere like Manchester, Liverpool and Edinburgh and Cambridge, Bristol and Oxford which had huge Remain majorities.

    The LDs main target seats however are mainly Tory home counties seats which only narrowly voted Remain in 2016 or narrowly voted Leave
    Also, it would reduce the chance of defeating the Conservatives - yes, I agree that's not the only point of politics, but after 12 years and counting it does deserve consideration. If the Tories can say "Labour in power would depend on the LibDems who are fanatically keen to rejoin", then Starmer will have to double down on "Labour will absolutely refuse to rejoin". Net effect: LDs piss off those Blue Wallers who aren't rejoiners, Labour pisses off the Rejoiners, and yes, Rejoiners feel happier casting the LD/Lab/Green votes they will probably do anyway. Since it won't actually happen in the next Parliament (so it'll go down as Another Broken Promise), all it would really do is make the Tories happy.

    I'm not sure if the Greens are unambiguously in favour, incidentally? They used to be positively pro-Brexit for Lexit reasons, but although they were Remainers at the election (mostly in reaction to the Tories, I think), are they Rejoiners now?

    The public consensus is IMO for reasonable cooperation with the EU to make things work better, including if necessary concessions about the ECHR role, common standards etc. but not embarking on rejoining for now. I'd vote to rejoin tomorrow, but you and I are not typical.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,082
    Leon said:

    She has a much better chance than that. And part of the reason she has a decent chance is the same reason she is interesting: for a political novice she is extremely confident and assured, and quite compelling on TV. She knows how to use the medium. She’s an ex tv anchor

    If you had to construct the perfect Trumpite female prez candidate it would look something like Lake. Attractive, plausible, lucid, combative. White soccer mom with guns. She has a supportive husband and apparently nice kids. She’s a smarter, cannier Sarah Palin with less baggage

    So she is INTERESTING. We shouldn’t turn away from interesting if distantly placed candidates out of dislike

    If she wins in November she becomes a real player
    Indeed. But, Lake, like a lot of these Trumpy candidates is a novice. At some point one of them will be exposed as a novice who has not been school in the art of politics by fecking up on something that a seasoned pro wouldn't. Trump got away with all his feck ups, but will these lesser characters?

  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    kinabalu said:

    That's a genuinely dim and disappointing response. My point - that whether a facility for putting down questioners is a good or a bad thing depends on the reason it's being deployed - has nothing to do with moralizing and wasn't (imo) hard to grasp. But you seemed not to, so I illustrated it, went the extra mile.

    But ok, if all you want to do is pronounce droolingly that this new love object of yours - Kari Lake - is terrific at "bitchslapping journos", end of, rather than talk about it and explore it a little bit, that's fine by me. Great. Very interesting. Thanks for the linked clip. Give the man a biscuit.
    No. ‘Depends on the reason being deployed’. Is your criterion. Right here. You went and wrote it down and everything

    That’s introducing morality - your opinion of the candidate’s political/moral worth. It is not relevant as to whether she is good at bitchslapping hacks. She is. One of the best I’ve seen
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,533

    The lesson that should be remembered from that period is that the Tories, who should be the natural party of government, became unpopular when they went down an ideological rabbit hole and got mired in a succession of silly scandals. Not how those leaders were elected.
    Major was less ideological than Thatcher and Hague was less ideological than Howard
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,082

    Presidential pardons on their way in 2025!
    America is so fucked up it is incredible.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,284
    edited August 2022
    Of course, it's so simple!

    Speaking in Dallas on Thursday, Mr Orban did not directly address that furore, but said: "A Christian politician cannot be racist."

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62431415

    On the other hand, you cannot accuse him of not being self aware of how he is regarded.

    "I can already see tomorrow's headlines," he said. "Far-right European racist and anti-Semite strongman, Trojan horse of Putin, holds speech at conservative conference".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,533

    Also, it would reduce the chance of defeating the Conservatives - yes, I agree that's not the only point of politics, but after 12 years and counting it does deserve consideration. If the Tories can say "Labour in power would depend on the LibDems who are fanatically keen to rejoin", then Starmer will have to double down on "Labour will absolutely refuse to rejoin". Net effect: LDs piss off those Blue Wallers who aren't rejoiners, Labour pisses off the Rejoiners, and yes, Rejoiners feel happier casting the LD/Lab/Green votes they will probably do anyway. Since it won't actually happen in the next Parliament (so it'll go down as Another Broken Promise), all it would really do is make the Tories happy.

    I'm not sure if the Greens are unambiguously in favour, incidentally? They used to be positively pro-Brexit for Lexit reasons, but although they were Remainers at the election (mostly in reaction to the Tories, I think), are they Rejoiners now?

    The public consensus is IMO for reasonable cooperation with the EU to make things work better, including if necessary concessions about the ECHR role, common standards etc. but not embarking on rejoining for now. I'd vote to rejoin tomorrow, but you and I are not typical.
    Exactly, the redwall Leave seats are vital for Labour to get into power, the bluewall narrow Remain/narrow Leave seats are the main LD target seats.

    The strongly pro Remain inner city seats are largely safe Labour anyway so irrelevant electorally. The Greens might try a rejoin the EU and join the Euro ticket to make inroads there but they would only dent the Labour majority at most.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294

    Indeed. But, Lake, like a lot of these Trumpy candidates is a novice. At some point one of them will be exposed as a novice who has not been school in the art of politics by fecking up on something that a seasoned pro wouldn't. Trump got away with all his feck ups, but will these lesser characters?

    That’s fair. She is absurdly inexperienced. She is surely betting on her ascent being so fast this is never exposed. You can see how. She wins in November. She’s an electrifying new voice. She becomes popular quick

    Trump chooses her as VP, for 2024 (or DeSantis does?). A woman would be perfect for either of them

    Then she is ideally placed for a run in 2028

    GO KARI

    Of course she has the problem that several of her opinions are completely bat-noodle Q’anon crazy. She has to tack subtly to the center
  • Has @kinabalu instructed us on Truss’s motives for her Savile tweet yet? Without our emperor of morals giving us the fateful thumb up or down, I can’t decide whether to support her..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,533
    Leon said:

    That’s fair. She is absurdly inexperienced. She is surely betting on her ascent being so fast this is never exposed. You can see how. She wins in November. She’s an electrifying new voice. She becomes popular quick

    Trump chooses her as VP, for 2024 (or DeSantis does?). A woman would be perfect for either of them

    Then she is ideally placed for a run in 2028

    GO KARI

    Of course she has the problem that several of her opinions are completely bat-noodle Q’anon crazy. She has to tack subtly to the center
    Leon said:

    That’s fair. She is absurdly inexperienced. She is surely betting on her ascent being so fast this is never exposed. You can see how. She wins in November. She’s an electrifying new voice. She becomes popular quick

    Trump chooses her as VP, for 2024 (or DeSantis does?). A woman would be perfect for either of them

    Then she is ideally placed for a run in 2028

    GO KARI

    Of course she has the problem that several of her opinions are completely bat-noodle Q’anon crazy. She has to tack subtly to the center
    On current polling Lake could lose the Arizona governorship and DeSantis lose the Florida governorship in November.

    In which case they would be irrelevant for 2024/28
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,081
    Leon said:

    You are mentally incapable of examining an issue without your narrow moralising mindset intruding

    IF I said "Hitler made powerful speeches" you'd say, "Yes, but he killed 6m Jews so they were bad speeches"

    What's the point? Debating with you is like debating with a highly educated child

    I'm off to the gym. Later
    Since quite a lot of the speeches were about the importance of killing Jews, Kinabalu would be right about that!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,270

    Off Topic

    Gordon Bennett! The BBC are offloading top presenters left right and centre, and yet the utterly abject Paddy O'Connell in on EVERYTHING! He's on Radio 2 whenever Vine is away and he's on any old nonsense like Broadcasting House that Radio 4 can muster, but today this total halfwit is on R4 PM AND Any Questions? Why? He's dreadful.

    The good ones go on holiday in August. That's why you get the 2nd team
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    ydoethur said:

    Since quite a lot of the speeches were about the importance of killing Jews, Kinabalu would be right about that!
    @kinabalu seems genuinely incapable of distinguishing between ‘this is a person doing a good job’ and ‘this is a good person doing a job’
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,135
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    That’s fair. She is absurdly inexperienced. She is surely betting on her ascent being so fast this is never exposed. You can see how. She wins in November. She’s an electrifying new voice. She becomes popular quick

    Trump chooses her as VP, for 2024 (or DeSantis does?). A woman would be perfect for either of them

    Then she is ideally placed for a run in 2028

    GO KARI

    Of course she has the problem that several of her opinions are completely bat-noodle Q’anon crazy. She has to tack subtly to the center
    Does she have to tack subtly to the centre? Did Trump?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,601
    Leon said:

    No, you just didn't understand the term


    EDIT: I am wrong. I just checked. People have, recently, been using grifter to mean a politician who is in politics solely to make money

    https://politicaldictionary.com/words/grifter/

    I deplore this usage. The word grifter should be reserved for petty swindlers, because it captures them brilliantly. There are surely better words for greedy political charlatans. But I can't argue with the usage of the language
    That’s a natural derivation - the argument is that politicians like that are selling something they don’t believe in order to make money. You’d never call a Saunders (belief) or McConnell (serious politician vs just about money) a grifter for example.

    Effectively they are swindling the voters
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,973
    Kari Lake sounds like a knock-off computer component.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    No. ‘Depends on the reason being deployed’. Is your criterion. Right here. You went and wrote it down and everything

    That’s introducing morality - your opinion of the candidate’s political/moral worth. It is not relevant as to whether she is good at bitchslapping hacks. She is. One of the best I’ve seen
    I just genuinely don't know what the problem is with this communication. YES, that message - that she's good at 'it' - is once again received loud and clear. And once again, thank you.

    I was seeking (although I'm not now, tbh, I've lost interest, don't want to work this hard, esp on a Friday) an evolution in the discourse. I was asking whether she, this ghastly Kari Lake person who has caught your attention, who you adore, when she goes about her "bitchslapping journos" business, is doing it to fend off crap or to dodge scrutiny?

    There is a difference there and it's an important one. But like I say, I don't want an answer now even if you're finally understanding the question.

    Goodbye.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    edited August 2022
    kinabalu said:

    I just genuinely don't know what the problem is with this communication. YES, that message - that she's good at 'it' - is once again received loud and clear. And once again, thank you.

    I was seeking (although I'm not now, tbh, I've lost interest) an evolution in the discourse. I was asking whether she, this ghastly Kari Lake person who has caught your attention, who you adore, when she goes about her "bitchslapping journos" business, is doing it to fend off crap or to dodge scrutiny?

    There is a difference there and it's an important one. But like I say, I don't want an answer now even if you're finally understanding the question.

    Goodbye.
    Deary me

    TBH I think the confusion here just comes from your poor use of English

    You should have simply said "Yeah OK she's skilled at putting down journalists, but she's a con artist, and doing it to avoid scrutiny, so I don't like her"

    That would have said all you wanted or needed to say. Trouble is it's a jejune and uninteresting point, so you tried to tart it up by getting all fancy with your prose. Didn't work. Stay in your lane, accountant
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,226
    Mike Smithson said: "I am coming to the conclusion that having party memberships elect the leader is not a good thing."

    I have had similar thoughts about leader selections here in the United States. I prefer open primaries to closed primaries to caucuses, in large part because activists have the most influence in the latter. (In open primaries, independents, as well as party members, can vote.)

    (And I will admit that, when the old machines chose candidates for competitive races, they often picked competent, moderate men, for example, Paul Douglas and Adlai Stevenson.)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,127

    Has @kinabalu instructed us on Truss’s motives for her Savile tweet yet? Without our emperor of morals giving us the fateful thumb up or down, I can’t decide whether to support her..

    He has pretty stiff competition from the various princelings of morality when it comes to the 'right' attitude to the war in Ukraine. They certainly help me to question my position on said war.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,113

    He has pretty stiff competition from the various princelings of morality when it comes to the 'right' attitude to the war in Ukraine. They certainly help me to question my position on said war.
    Really? Please explain.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Does she have to tack subtly to the centre? Did Trump?
    Karizona '22 is a lock. I'm calling it early like Fox in 2020 and unlike Fox in 2022
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,601

    Having Good/God as leader against Blair would have been fun.

    "Yes, I know Tony Blair. I bloody created him. And take it from me, he's a wrong 'un..."

    "Well, I'm still going to vote for h - "

    BOOOOOOM

    "Erm, my Lord, I think there is a risk of a backlash if you smite everyone who isn't a possible...."
    Would make life difficult for the foot soldiers getting an accurate canvas too 😂
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,081

    He has pretty stiff competition from the various princelings of morality when it comes to the 'right' attitude to the war in Ukraine. They certainly help me to question my position on said war.
    Funny, I never thought of you as an unabashed Salmond supporter.
  • He has pretty stiff competition from the various princelings of morality when it comes to the 'right' attitude to the war in Ukraine. They certainly help me to question my position on said war.
    Are you saying that people’s certainty that Putin is evil and Russia is acting grotesquely is making you warm to him?!

    You ought to retreat from so near lunacy
  • TresTres Posts: 2,782
    Leon said:

    Grifter?!

    "a person who engages in petty or small-scale swindling."

    No. Not a grifter. Wrong usage. Bzzzt
    Trump is the king grifter.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,081
    Tres said:

    Trump is the king grifter.
    Well, that's his goal. He's fallen a bit short of it so far. Just a one-term President, not a King.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,601
    kle4 said:

    Of course, it's so simple!

    Speaking in Dallas on Thursday, Mr Orban did not directly address that furore, but said: "A Christian politician cannot be racist."

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62431415

    On the other hand, you cannot accuse him of not being self aware of how he is regarded.

    "I can already see tomorrow's headlines," he said. "Far-right European racist and anti-Semite strongman, Trojan horse of Putin, holds speech at conservative conference".

    At face value that statement is true

    A Christian who lives by the golden rule “love thy neighbour as thyself” will treat people equally regardless of skin colour

    Someone who is racist does not do that

    Therefore someone who is racist cannot be a Christian who abides by the golden rule (or at least attempts to - we are all fallible) and, if you assume the golden rule is central to what it means to be Christian, a racist cannot be a Christian.

    Therefore a Christian politician cannot be a racist because if they are a racist then they are not a Christian politician

  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    Before PB-ers reach the entirely bogus assumption that my weird obsession with the remarkably attractive Ms Lake, with the excellent cheekbones, and really quite nice ankles for her age, and that petite swishy way she walks, and her smoky Arizona eyes, like blue desert twilights outside Sedona on a warm April eve, I'd just like to point out that my interest is entirely political, and also informed

    I follow quite a lot of Trumpites on Twitter. Just as I follow quite a lot of Corbynites. People like Jack Posobiec and D'Souza

    THEY are excited by Kari Lake. She has seized their imaginations. Which tells me something is up

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,081
    Leon said:

    Before PB-ers reach the entirely bogus assumption that my weird obsession with the remarkably attractive Ms Lake, with the excellent cheekbones, and really quite nice ankles for her age, and that petite swishy way she walks, and her smoky Arizona eyes, like blue desert twilights outside Sedona on a warm April eve, I'd just like to point out that my interest is entirely political, and also informed

    I follow quite a lot of Trumpites on Twitter. Just as I follow quite a lot of Corbynites. People like Jack Posobiec and D'Souza

    THEY are excited by Kari Lake. She has seized their imaginations. Which tells me something is up

    They're not the only ones. I do love your dry wit!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,601
    ydoethur said:

    Since quite a lot of the speeches were about the importance of killing Jews, Kinabalu would be right about that!
    Although does he mean “bad speeches” in the sense they were “poor” speeches technically or “speeches proposing a bad thing”?

    You can have a good speech from technical perspective that makes a horrible case. Many of Hitler’s ( as other demagogues) fall into that category. It’s why we have the word “demagogue”
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,876
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Before PB-ers reach the entirely bogus assumption that my weird obsession with the remarkably attractive Ms Lake, with the excellent cheekbones, and really quite nice ankles for her age, and that petite swishy way she walks, and her smoky Arizona eyes, like blue desert twilights outside Sedona on a warm April eve, I'd just like to point out that my interest is entirely political, and also informed

    I follow quite a lot of Trumpites on Twitter. Just as I follow quite a lot of Corbynites. People like Jack Posobiec and D'Souza

    THEY are excited by Kari Lake. She has seized their imaginations. Which tells me something is up

    Men of a certain age are firming up. That's for sure.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    This thread has conceded to Kari Lake before Maricopa even starts counting
  • rcs1000 said:

    The original Amstrad - makers of CPC and PCW computers - was built from the ground up.
    Yes, Lord Sugar (who reached government before Donald Trump, as a junior minister) had half a dozen or so brilliant ideas over his lifetime. The criticism would be that by not investing properly, each of his companies ran into a dead end instead of extending their technology to the next generation, whether it be hifi, PCs, satellite tv receivers, or email phones as the case may be; ok, maybe not the last one.

    For instance, Amstrad was the second largest computer manufacturer in Europe, after Olivetti. Where's Amstrad now? Otoh, where is Olivetti?
  • New thread.
This discussion has been closed.