Mr. Eagles, if Sunak has the chance to determine his opponent (far from certain, I know) and can pick between Mordaunt and Badenoch, who would he go for?
Mr. Eagles, if Sunak has the chance to determine his opponent (far from certain, I know) and can pick between Mordaunt and Badenoch, who would he go for?
He'll go for Badenoch, which tells how useless she is.
I reckon Braverman's vote transfers over to Badenoch and ahead of Truss.
Interesting next round. If they break mostly for Truss then she'll be looking good. Could get a reasonable chunk of Badenoch's support in due course too.
But, if they break for Badenoch, then it's potentially a toss-up which of Truss and Badenoch make the final three.
TT's votes will presumably got to mostly to Sunak and Mordaunt in some combo, either after the next round or in the next round if he drops out.
Edit: Also, the direction of TT's vote could well determine whether Sunak makes it or not. Big transfer and he's home and dry. But if many go to Mordaunt then he could, potentially, be squeezed.
Final two looking like Sunak and the one whose sense of humour is just like mine.
I don't think so. I think Penny misses out.
I think Truss or Badenoch makes it. Assume Penny gets ALL TT's votes (in reality some will go Sunak): that's 115. The right-wing candidates are on 140.
Yes, Kemi takes the majority of Braverman's votes, knocks out Truss and absorbs Truss's votes to scrape into the final two.
Smashes Rishi to bits and becomes PM.
Implausible.
Braverman only has 27 votes and Truss is 15 in the lead and should probably get some of Braverman's votes. Even if Kemi takes the majority of them, she still likely wouldn't get ahead of Truss.
More plausible is Braverman and Badenoch can get Truss ahead of Mordaunt, but even that will still be a challenge.
That is to assume that any candidate has in their gift the votes of their supporters so far. Pretty odd assumption that they control even a majority of those votes.
Now Suella Braverman is out of the leadership contest, does she revert to supporting the repeatedly-affirmed policy of the government of which she is a member - to remain in the ECHR? Or does she resign? https://twitter.com/suellabraverman/status/1547516107518509057
I reckon Sunak and Truss/Badenoch gang up to block Mordaunt.
I doubt it. Truss and Badenoch are not friends right now. I think they’ll fail. Tug will drop out and endorse Mordaunt, and his supporters will go to her and Rishy.
Incidentally I remember where I heard “Mordaunt” before. There was a 48 gun Ship-of-The-Line in the 17th century called HMS Mordaunt. Which means I think we might have a final two of Risky and The Fourth Rate.
I would suggest the conservative mps may well be aware that if Penny does not get through the membership, who overwhelming seem to want her to win, will be very annoyed and upset
Yes, Kemi takes the majority of Braverman's votes, knocks out Truss and absorbs Truss's votes to scrape into the final two.
Smashes Rishi to bits and becomes PM.
Implausible.
Braverman only has 27 votes and Truss is 15 in the lead and should probably get some of Braverman's votes. Even if Kemi takes the majority of them, she still likely wouldn't get ahead of Truss.
More plausible is Braverman and Badenoch can get Truss ahead of Mordaunt, but even that will still be a challenge.
I think Kemi now has credibility to draw votes away from Liz as well. If she had not gained any in the previous round then it would be curtains, but for now I think she's got a route to the final two.
Final two looking like Sunak and the one whose sense of humour is just like mine.
I don't think so. I think Penny misses out.
I think Truss or Badenoch makes it. Assume Penny gets ALL TT's votes (in reality some will go Sunak): that's 115. The right-wing candidates are on 140.
The other point is that if the right-wing vote holds at 140, the split between Sunak and Mordaunt of the other 216 is tricky, and Truss could actually come first.
Michael Gove (Kemi's team) and Gavin Williamson (Rishi's team) look well placed to shape who makes the final two on Tuesday night when Kemi Badenoch's votes are up for grabs. My guess: Sunak's team will try to engineer Truss, not Mordaunt, into the final two. #ToryLeadershipRace
Truss plus 8 with Zahawis votes to cannibilise on her launch day is poor. And whilst i can see Braverman to Badenoch i dont think Kemis support goes in bulk to Truss if Kemi drops before Liz. Its Sunak or Kemi vs Mordaunt i think
I reckon Braverman's vote transfers over to Badenoch and ahead of Truss.
Interesting next round. If they break mostly for Truss then she'll be looking good. Could get a reasonable chunk of Badenoch's support in due course too.
But, if they break for Badenoch, then it's potentially a toss-up which of Truss and Badenoch make the final three.
TT's votes will presumably got to mostly to Sunak and Mordaunt in some combo, either after the next round or in the next round if he drops out.
Edit: Also, the direction of TT's vote could well determine whether Sunak makes it or not. Big transfer and he's home and dry. But if many go to Mordaunt then he could, potentially, be squeezed.
Conversely, how many of Sunak's votes might go to Mordaunt, if it were to appear there was a danger of her getting knocked ?
If it's clear to the more centrist MPs that (eg) Truss would almost certainly beat Sunak in a vote of the membership, dare they risk that ?
I don't think you can assume that anyone's existing votes are 100% solid going into the next round.
They can't give Kemi away in the betting for the final two. She's longer there than for next PM:- 1.74 Penny Mordaunt 57% 4.5 Rishi Sunak 22% 6.2 Liz Truss 16% 28 Kemi Badenoch 300 Tom Tugendhat
Yes, Kemi takes the majority of Braverman's votes, knocks out Truss and absorbs Truss's votes to scrape into the final two.
Smashes Rishi to bits and becomes PM.
Implausible.
Braverman only has 27 votes and Truss is 15 in the lead and should probably get some of Braverman's votes. Even if Kemi takes the majority of them, she still likely wouldn't get ahead of Truss.
More plausible is Braverman and Badenoch can get Truss ahead of Mordaunt, but even that will still be a challenge.
I think Kemi now has credibility to draw votes away from Liz as well. If she had not gained any in the previous round then it would be curtains, but for now I think she's got a route to the final two.
Its a possible route, but not a plausible one, and its less plausible today than it was yesterday. She fell further behind Liz today, had she caught up a bit then overtaking would be more plausible, but instead Braverman's backers are going to have to think whether they want Mordaunt v Sunak in the run-off, or go for Truss?
I reckon Sunak and Truss/Badenoch gang up to block Mordaunt.
I doubt it. Truss and Badenoch are not friends right now. I think they’ll fail. Tug will drop out and endorse Mordaunt, and his supporters will go to her and Rishy.
Incidentally I remember where I heard “Mordaunt” before. There was a 48 gun Ship-of-The-Line in the 17th century called HMS Mordaunt. Which means I think we might have a final two of Risky and The Fourth Rate.
Sorry, to be clear, I mean the final round when it is:
Sunak Mordaunt Truss or Badenoch
Then Mordaunt needs to be able to clear 119 herself. If she doesn't, I think the other two make sure she goes out because of the YouGov poll.
TT can more or less get Mordaunt over the line and into the final two by endorsing her. Add on say 27 of his 32 votes and that leaves her only 10 short. One assumes she’d get that from other transfers.
Conversely if he endorses Sunak, then I think we’re looking at PM Truss.
Mr. Eagles, if Sunak has the chance to determine his opponent (far from certain, I know) and can pick between Mordaunt and Badenoch, who would he go for?
He'll go for Badenoch, which tells how useless she is.
Yeah, if I had to choose to face one or the other I'd face the emptier (than him) vessel rather than the one who actually has ideas and a vision. Penny feels like a house of cards to me, her support is wide but probably very shallow and brittle and in a campaign to win actual votes I think she'd get found out.
I reckon Sunak and Truss/Badenoch gang up to block Mordaunt.
I doubt it. Truss and Badenoch are not friends right now. I think they’ll fail. Tug will drop out and endorse Mordaunt, and his supporters will go to her and Rishy.
Incidentally I remember where I heard “Mordaunt” before. There was a 48 gun Ship-of-The-Line in the 17th century called HMS Mordaunt. Which means I think we might have a final two of Risky and The Fourth Rate.
Sorry, to be clear, I mean the final round when it is:
Sunak Mordaunt Truss or Badenoch
Then Mordaunt needs to be able to clear 119 herself. If she doesn't, I think the other two make sure she goes out because of the YouGov poll.
Although focus groups are most certainly on Penny's side
She is articulating it looks like Sunak (she calls sun knack) plus 1 of Truss or Penny.
We could have told her that much last Sunday! 🤭
But the bit the TV commentators are not telling us is the BIG BIG change. Last Sunday it looked like Truss into last 2 possibly Penny, now it’s Penny in last 2 possibly Truss. The week has gone differently than expected. There is no appetite on the right for Truss - and not enough fear on right of Penny or Sunak. 🥳
Truss plus 8 with Zahawis votes to cannibilise on her launch day is poor. And whilst i can see Braverman to Badenoch i dont think Kemis support goes in bulk to Truss if Kemi drops before Liz. Its Sunak or Kemi vs Mordaunt i think
1.77 for Penny looks too short, and 6 for Truss and 27 for Badenoch too long. That said, I think Truss may be better-placed thank Badenoch to beat Sunak.
Tugendhat staying in the race. Yawn. Just quit man.
That's interesting because it means there'll be another round of voting where votes can shuffle around between the genuine contenders without any risk.
Now Suella Braverman is out of the leadership contest, does she revert to supporting the repeatedly-affirmed policy of the government of which she is a member - to remain in the ECHR? Or does she resign? https://twitter.com/suellabraverman/status/1547516107518509057
What a ridiculous take. Is every leadership contender supposed to treat every aspect of their manifesto as a resigning issue? Or do you imagine that all the other candidates agree on everything?
He’s one of those old school posh military Tories that thinks *just because*
At least Ben Wallace has self awareness
Enough. The Tories REALLY need to steer away from posh white men this time it they are to have any chance of winning rhe GE. And TiT won’t admit defeat.
The other point is that if the right-wing vote holds at 140, the split between Sunak and Mordaunt of the other 216 is tricky, and Truss could actually come first.
This seems to make the most sense.
Mordaunt is still 36 votes short. Given that Rishi still needs 18, then between them they need to be taking a lot of votes from the candidates well to their right.
Rishi/Truss seems the most likely - although more complex Tory politics might say differently.
The only vote pool to be redistributed now is Braverman which could go by a clear majority to her . This would then allow her to say there’s new momentum and she would be very close to Mordaunt .
I really think TT needs to withdraw . I’d expect quite a few of his votes to go to Mordaunt.
She is articulating it looks like Sunak (she calls sun knack) plus 1 of Truss our Penny.
We could have told her that much last Sunday! 🤭
But the bit the TV commentators are not telling us is the BIG BIG change. Last Sunday it looked like Truss into last 2 possibly Penny, now it’s Penny in last 2 possibly Truss. The week has gone differently than expected. There is no appetite on the right for Truss - and not enough fear on right of Penny or Sunak. 🥳
To be fair they spent all day yesterday talking about Penny though.
Today I feel was a bad result for Penny after the success she had yesterday, plus who was eliminated yesterday. With Hunt and Zahawi eliminated and Penny supposedly having "the big mo" I'd have expected Penny to have increased her lead over Truss, but it didn't increase.
Penny might get some from Tugendhat. Truss will get more from Badenoch and Braverman I expect.
Yes, Kemi takes the majority of Braverman's votes, knocks out Truss and absorbs Truss's votes to scrape into the final two.
Smashes Rishi to bits and becomes PM.
Implausible.
Braverman only has 27 votes and Truss is 15 in the lead and should probably get some of Braverman's votes. Even if Kemi takes the majority of them, she still likely wouldn't get ahead of Truss.
More plausible is Braverman and Badenoch can get Truss ahead of Mordaunt, but even that will still be a challenge.
Badenoch would likely have to win the support of the some of the MPs who voted Truss in this round to overhaul her, as she won't take more than three-quarters of the Braverman transfers.
There's a whole weekend. I guess it's possible. I'm interested in whether Mordaunt can overhaul Sunak. I think he might get squeezed out.
I would suggest the conservative mps may well be aware that if Penny does not get through the membership, who overwhelming seem to want her to win, will be very annoyed and upset
Yes indeed. MPs ruling out their strong favourite would not play well.
Michael Gove (Kemi's team) and Gavin Williamson (Rishi's team) look well placed to shape who makes the final two on Tuesday night when Kemi Badenoch's votes are up for grabs. My guess: Sunak's team will try to engineer Truss, not Mordaunt, into the final two. #ToryLeadershipRace
If Penny is on anything more than about 115 by Tuesday then there is no chance of them risking a stitch up, you risk your own guy falling. The other factor is whether the ERG are prepared to back Truss. No sign they are remotely keen on her thus far.
TT can more or less get Mordaunt over the line and into the final two by endorsing her. Add on say 27 of his 32 votes and that leaves her only 10 short. One assumes she’d get that from other transfers.
Conversely if he endorses Sunak, then I think we’re looking at PM Truss.
An interesting point. He has a double incentive to consider that. First, Ukraine; second, the likelihood of a senior cabinet post.
Mr. Eagles, if Sunak has the chance to determine his opponent (far from certain, I know) and can pick between Mordaunt and Badenoch, who would he go for?
He'll go for Badenoch, which tells how useless she is.
Yeah, if I had to choose to face one or the other I'd face the emptier (than him) vessel rather than the one who actually has ideas and a vision. Penny feels like a house of cards to me, her support is wide but probably very shallow and brittle and in a campaign to win actual votes I think she'd get found out.
Penny has the wit and humour to destroy Sunak in the hustings and final two debates, Badenoch doesn't have that skillset.
Go on YouTube you can find a plethora of great speeches/off the cuff remarks from Mordaunt, you cannot find that for Badenoch.
Kemi needs Tommy not to drop out - if he does, she could finish last tomorrow and be eliminated. Him staying in today means she has the weekend to keep up the momentum, which she needs to overtake Truss.
Let's hope its Mordaunt on the final ballot paper v Riki and I hope she doesn't offer him a job or if she does...r perhaps N Ireland. Private Eye has interesting info on Riki
I would suggest the conservative mps may well be aware that if Penny does not get through the membership, who overwhelming seem to want her to win, will be very annoyed and upset
Conservative members are Eeyores though. They like being annoyed and upset.
Mordaunt should be busy offering TT a cabinet or senior ministerial post that interests him and Kemi HS and some fancy 'transforming Britain' or similar and she will walk it
Let's hope its Mordaunt on the final ballot paper v Riki and I hope she doesn't offer him a job or if she does...r perhaps N Ireland. Private Eye has interesting info on Riki
Actually I think Rishi might do quite well as NI Secretary.
Shame on TT if he’s staying in the race. He’ll only lose more votes in the next round and weakening a claim for a senior Ministerial role. He could well (indirectly) help Truss to become one of the two going to the members: that would be catastrophic. This is serious stuff and his self-indulgence is unforgivable.
Kemi needs Tommy not to drop out - if he does, she could finish last tomorrow and be eliminated. Him staying in today means she has the weekend to keep up the momentum, which she needs to overtake Truss.
Yes, Kemi takes the majority of Braverman's votes, knocks out Truss and absorbs Truss's votes to scrape into the final two.
Smashes Rishi to bits and becomes PM.
Implausible.
Braverman only has 27 votes and Truss is 15 in the lead and should probably get some of Braverman's votes. Even if Kemi takes the majority of them, she still likely wouldn't get ahead of Truss.
More plausible is Braverman and Badenoch can get Truss ahead of Mordaunt, but even that will still be a challenge.
I think Kemi now has credibility to draw votes away from Liz as well. If she had not gained any in the previous round then it would be curtains, but for now I think she's got a route to the final two.
Its a possible route, but not a plausible one, and its less plausible today than it was yesterday. She fell further behind Liz today, had she caught up a bit then overtaking would be more plausible, but instead Braverman's backers are going to have to think whether they want Mordaunt v Sunak in the run-off, or go for Truss?
I think that is a fair point re Badenoch and I say that as a backer. However, it is pretty clear to anyone that Truss is going to struggle in any sort of campaigning. So, the Right of the party is going to have to make a choice pretty soon as to essentially say 'lose in third' or let's throw caution to the winds.
One influential Tory MP tells me: “Deals need to be done over the weekend. Braverman & Badenoch can be the Queen maker for Truss or Mordaunt. It would require Truss or Mordaunt to toughen their stance on getting out of the ECHR, which would go down very well with the membership.”
Shame on TT if he’s staying in the race. He’ll only lose more votes in the next round and weakening a claim for a senior Ministerial role. He could well (indirectly) help Truss to become one of the two going to the members: that would be catastrophic. This is serious stuff and his self-indulgence is unforgivable.
Agreed, he should be dropping out and backing Mordaunt.
What a dull contest a Sunak/Truss would be. Neither is up to beating Starmer and Labour in a GE.
Shame on TT if he’s staying in the race. He’ll only lose more votes in the next round and weakening a claim for a senior Ministerial role. He could well (indirectly) help Truss to become one of the two going to the members: that would be catastrophic. This is serious stuff and his self-indulgence is unforgivable.
Well said Lord JohnO! TiT is being a tit really...
Comments
Badenoch +6
Mordaunt +4
Sunak +2
Braverman -3
Tugendhat -13
Tugendhat has to jump on that. Decent for Truss, but Mordaunt still heading for No 10 I think.
I reckon Braverman's vote transfers over to Badenoch and ahead of Truss.
Members of the 1922 committee have decided to have three ballots on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday next week after #PMQs. #ToryLeadershipRace
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1547576982988156933
If Truss can get more transfers from Braverman and Badenoch than Mordaunt can, then she might not make the final 3.
There is no path to victory for TT. Carrying on just becomes more humiliating.
1.78 Penny Mordaunt 56%
4.2 Rishi Sunak 24%
6 Liz Truss 17%
23 Kemi Badenoch 4%
140 Tom Tugendhat
250 Dominic Raab
Smashes Rishi to bits and becomes PM.
But, if they break for Badenoch, then it's potentially a toss-up which of Truss and Badenoch make the final three.
TT's votes will presumably got to mostly to Sunak and Mordaunt in some combo, either after the next round or in the next round if he drops out.
Edit: Also, the direction of TT's vote could well determine whether Sunak makes it or not. Big transfer and he's home and dry. But if many go to Mordaunt then he could, potentially, be squeezed.
They are not the changes from Round 1.
I don't think Badenoch gets sufficient transfer to overtake Truss.
Braverman only has 27 votes and Truss is 15 in the lead and should probably get some of Braverman's votes. Even if Kemi takes the majority of them, she still likely wouldn't get ahead of Truss.
More plausible is Braverman and Badenoch can get Truss ahead of Mordaunt, but even that will still be a challenge.
Truss +14
Sunak +13
Badenoch +9
Tugendhat -5
Braverman -5
Sunak probably should pick up enough transfers to make the final two, but he's not going to be way out in front.
Badenoch would have to win over some supporters from the front three with a good performance in the debate to stay in the contest.
I wonder who Tissue Price and Tugendhat will support when they withdraw?
Fuck off tom tugwank
3 Profit.
Nice day
1.77 Penny Mordaunt 56%
4.5 Rishi Sunak 22%
6 Liz Truss 17%
27 Kemi Badenoch
110 Tom Tugendhat
240 Dominic Raab
Incidentally I remember where I heard “Mordaunt” before. There was a 48 gun Ship-of-The-Line in the 17th century called HMS Mordaunt. Which means I think we might have a final two of Risky and The Fourth Rate.
It doesn't work like that.
She is going to have to get some Sunak supporters to switch.
Sunak supporters need to wake up and realise that Truss will be a disaster and they have to get Penny into the Final.
I’m very unconvinced.
It’s Mordaunt vs AN other right now. I’m still not convinced Rishi will make it.
Interviewer: Is there any issue other than cost of living?
Michael Gove (Kemi's team) and Gavin Williamson (Rishi's team) look well placed to shape who makes the final two on Tuesday night when Kemi Badenoch's votes are up for grabs. My guess: Sunak's team will try to engineer Truss, not Mordaunt, into the final two. #ToryLeadershipRace
Its Sunak or Kemi vs Mordaunt i think
If it's clear to the more centrist MPs that (eg) Truss would almost certainly beat Sunak in a vote of the membership, dare they risk that ?
I don't think you can assume that anyone's existing votes are 100% solid going into the next round.
1.74 Penny Mordaunt 57%
4.5 Rishi Sunak 22%
6.2 Liz Truss 16%
28 Kemi Badenoch
300 Tom Tugendhat
Sunak
Mordaunt
Truss or Badenoch
Then Mordaunt needs to be able to clear 119 herself. If she doesn't, I think the other two make sure she goes out because of the YouGov poll.
Conversely if he endorses Sunak, then I think we’re looking at PM Truss.
We could have told her that much last Sunday! 🤭
But the bit the TV commentators are not telling us is the BIG BIG change. Last Sunday it looked like Truss into last 2 possibly Penny, now it’s Penny in last 2 possibly Truss. The week has gone differently than expected. There is no appetite on the right for Truss - and not enough fear on right of Penny or Sunak. 🥳
I don't understand why they kept it at 30.
At least Ben Wallace has self awareness
Enough. The Tories REALLY need to steer away from posh white men this time it they are to have any chance of winning rhe GE. And TiT won’t admit defeat.
Mordaunt is still 36 votes short. Given that Rishi still needs 18, then between them they need to be taking a lot of votes from the candidates well to their right.
Rishi/Truss seems the most likely - although more complex Tory politics might say differently.
The only vote pool to be redistributed now is Braverman which could go by a clear majority to her . This would then allow her to say there’s new momentum and she would be very close to Mordaunt .
I really think TT needs to withdraw . I’d expect quite a few of his votes to go to Mordaunt.
Today I feel was a bad result for Penny after the success she had yesterday, plus who was eliminated yesterday. With Hunt and Zahawi eliminated and Penny supposedly having "the big mo" I'd have expected Penny to have increased her lead over Truss, but it didn't increase.
Penny might get some from Tugendhat. Truss will get more from Badenoch and Braverman I expect.
Very plausible that Penny will come third.
There's a whole weekend. I guess it's possible. I'm interested in whether Mordaunt can overhaul Sunak. I think he might get squeezed out.
The other factor is whether the ERG are prepared to back Truss. No sign they are remotely keen on her thus far.
He has a double incentive to consider that. First, Ukraine; second, the likelihood of a senior cabinet post.
Go on YouTube you can find a plethora of great speeches/off the cuff remarks from Mordaunt, you cannot find that for Badenoch.
Private Eye has interesting info on Riki
Do not assume that every Braverman/Badenoch/Truss vote is a hive mind that will consolidate into the last one standing.
Implying Penny can get votes from Badenoch.
https://twitter.com/joncraig/status/1547589116451205121
Jesus Christ, no.
What a dull contest a Sunak/Truss would be. Neither is up to beating Starmer and Labour in a GE.