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The betting on next PM since BoJo bowed out – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,163
edited July 2022 in General
imageThe betting on next PM since BoJo bowed out – politicalbetting.com

Today is a big day in the contest to choose the next CON leader and of course next prime minister. The 1922 committee of Conservative backbench MPs will be meeting later to decide and then announce the various rules of the contest.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    Well you were complaining last thread about none of them being serious or attempting to balance the books.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    I don't think we've ever seen a Government intentional destroy it's ability to deliver anything before.

    I almost want him to win so I can watch the disaster from a distance - however, I do intend to live in the UK so can I point out how stupid this idea is...

    It's also worth saying that the Government is going to see 5-10% cuts this year anyway because unless wages increase competent workers are going to be seeking better paid work elsewhere.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    Well you were complaining last thread about none of them being serious or attempting to balance the books.
    The tweet is:-
    Nadh Zahawi tells Sky News he plans to impose 20% cuts on every government department in order to pay for his planned tax cuts.

    And that 20 per cent figure tells us that this is either not serious or is damn stupid. It is plucked out of thin air, it is too large for simple efficiency savings (which, by the way, everyone has tried) but there is no accompanying policy that would naturally slice a fifth off anyone's spending; it is to be uniform across Whitehall, again with no regard to policy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    (FPT) Why do so many of Badenoch's endorsers call her 'brave' or courageous' ?
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/full-list-tory-endorsements-for-next-leader
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    A splendid start to the day - Wordle in 2 for only the third time.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT...

    Fishing said:

    bondegezou said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Gezou, the Romans and Greeks had slaves. As did the Norse and Anglo-Saxons, the Arabs and the Chinese. Barbary pirates seized whites and sold them as slaves to the Ottomans.

    The major difference is that only the trans-Atlantic trade is on BLM's radar because it's the only one that comes close to fitting their nonsense, and that's disregarding the slaves were sold by black traders in Africa, and the trade was ended by the British Empire (which does not wipe out what went before but is worthy of acknowledgement).

    As for racism in America, that's certainly, sadly, still in existence. Fighting it with BLM and related nonsense is as foolish as trying to fight inequality with Communism.

    Slavery in North America lasted from 1526 to 1865, so 339 years. The transatlantic slave trade as a whole shipped over 12 million Africans to the Americas. To call that a “small slice” seems odd. It is, for obvious reasons, of rather more import to the modern US than the practices of slavery in ancient Athens or among the Anglo-Saxons. The last US slave died in my lifetime: it’s a lot more recent than slavery among the Norse.

    I’m glad you acknowledge that racism is alive and well in the US. How do you think it should be fought? What is problematic about highlighting the high rate of police killings of Black people in the US?

    (“bondegezou” is all one word, and it’s Dr or Prof not Mr.)
    Blacks are killed by the police greater than their share of the population, but at about their share of convicted violent criminals, so it is far from certain that the high rate is unjustified overall, whatever may be the case in individual shootings.

    Unarmed blacks are rather more likely than whites to be shot, but Asians and Pacific Islanders significantly less so. Does that mean that the police are discriminating in favour of those minorities?

    Men are killed by the police about 25x more often than women, but as far as I know we've never had a Male Lives Matter movement. As they are much more likely than women to be violent criminals, people accept that disparity.

    Another strange fact is that blacks are more likely to be killed in urban areas, while whites are in rural areas.

    When I first started looking at the statistics, I was prepared to find horrible evidence of discrimination overall, but somewhat to my surprise the picture is as murky and ambigious as these matters often are. Most of the problem is a hugely over-armed police force and population, rather than racism, which no doubt exists.
    Like most things, it's complex.

    If you live in - say - a nice part of Los Angeles, you will find that the police force is a largely multi-ethnic force, of whites, hispanics and African Americans, who treat pretty much everyone pretty well.

    Sure, there are petty grumbles. But I - and none of my friends - have any cause to be upset with our local police force.

    What is true of West Los Angeles is not true of everywhere.

    There are cities in the US where African Americans make up four in ten of the population, but less than one in ten of the police. With high segregated geography, and no African Americans that have ever progressed beyond the rank of patrolman... well, when the cop car cruises by, it looks awfully like an occupying army.

    From where I sit, I don't see much in the way of discrimination. In nice middle class areas, where jobs are plenty, schools are well funded and the offence most likely to get you in a courthouse is speeding... well, life is pretty good.

    But I'd sure as shit not like to grow up as a poor black man in Alabama or Mississippi.
    I am blown away by what you are replying to which seems to say that black vs white predisposition to violent crime is biologically determined as much as male vs female is. Wow.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    I don't think we've ever seen a Government intentional destroy it's ability to deliver anything before.

    I almost want him to win so I can watch the disaster from a distance - however, I do intend to live in the UK so can I point out how stupid this idea is...

    It's also worth saying that the Government is going to see 5-10% cuts this year anyway because unless wages increase competent workers are going to be seeking better paid work elsewhere.
    Good!

    So what you're saying is that competent workers will be going to productive parts of the economy, where they will be generating taxes, and the cuts will feasibly happen anyway.

    Brilliant way to balance the books. Go for it. 👍
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,525
    FPT The Valiant

    1. The Conservative and Unionist Party DO put up candidates in Northern Ireland. https://www.niconservatives.com/
    2. Neither Labour nor the LD do, I'm not sure why. I have some suspicion that Labour have said they never would. Having said that the SDLP take the Labour whip in Parliament. The Alliance I'm less sure about but I'm told their MP sits with the LDs.
    3. UKIP HAVE run candidates in Northern Ireland, and I suspect the Greens have a local party too.
    ----------
    Re 2: Labour has reliable allies in the SDLP and members tends to be equivocal on the division of Ireland, so why get involved and split the vote? The LDs have reliable allies in the Allliance, so again, why split the vote? It just feels like a lot of effort and expense with an actually negative outcome. Why the Tories bother is a mystery to me.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    Well not if they want to win the election after the Leadership!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    I don't think we've ever seen a Government intentional destroy it's ability to deliver anything before.

    I almost want him to win so I can watch the disaster from a distance - however, I do intend to live in the UK so can I point out how stupid this idea is...

    It's also worth saying that the Government is going to see 5-10% cuts this year anyway because unless wages increase competent workers are going to be seeking better paid work elsewhere.
    Good!

    So what you're saying is that competent workers will be going to productive parts of the economy, where they will be generating taxes, and the cuts will feasibly happen anyway.

    Brilliant way to balance the books. Go for it. 👍
    You do realise that teachers and doctors have to pay tax?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    I don't think we've ever seen a Government intentional destroy it's ability to deliver anything before.

    I almost want him to win so I can watch the disaster from a distance - however, I do intend to live in the UK so can I point out how stupid this idea is...

    It's also worth saying that the Government is going to see 5-10% cuts this year anyway because unless wages increase competent workers are going to be seeking better paid work elsewhere.
    Good!

    So what you're saying is that competent workers will be going to productive parts of the economy, where they will be generating taxes, and the cuts will feasibly happen anyway.

    Brilliant way to balance the books. Go for it. 👍
    You do realise that teachers and doctors have to pay tax?
    And that people can't work if they are ill or their children are sent home because the schools are short of staff?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    I don't think we've ever seen a Government intentional destroy it's ability to deliver anything before.

    I almost want him to win so I can watch the disaster from a distance - however, I do intend to live in the UK so can I point out how stupid this idea is...

    It's also worth saying that the Government is going to see 5-10% cuts this year anyway because unless wages increase competent workers are going to be seeking better paid work elsewhere.
    Indeed, and as most delivery requires a team, losing critical members of that team can really throw a spanner in the works.

    If we lose our reception staff to the tills in Sainsbury then I become a very expensive booking clerk. Add in losing our best Specialist Trainees to Australia, and old timers like me to early retirement and agency locums then the whole system grinds to a halt very quickly.

    No doubt other public services just the same.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    It is honest
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    As you wake this morning, UN resolution 2585 has officially expired. Russia vetoed an extension.

    That means UN aid convoys have lost their permission to take 1000 trucks a month of food, shelters and medicine from Turkey into NW #Syria.

    More than 3m people in #Idlib rely on it.
    https://twitter.com/annaefoster/status/1546387533029949441
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Mrs Thatcher would have kicked his arse if she wasn’t too busy spinning in her grave.

    Truss-backing Kwasi Kwarteng tells @kateferguson4 in The Sun: “We can’t simply be accountants trying to balance the books the whole time.”

    Agree or not, that’s quite a thing for a CONSERVATIVE cabinet minister to say.

    Imagine if a Labour frontbencher said that

    https://twitter.com/mattchorley/status/1546387725250699264?s=21&t=3SlSzbtD0n-Z_C0wHvRxiQ
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    It is honest
    It is not honest, just the opposite, because there is no way Zahawi could deliver (or impose) 20 per cent cuts across every department, and he knows it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Aside from a weird flash crash bounce in March 2020, sterling at it's weakest level against the dollar since *checks notes* early 1985.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    Elizabeth Truss - sizeable thrust and haziest bluster
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    Well you were complaining last thread about none of them being serious or attempting to balance the books.
    The tweet is:-
    Nadh Zahawi tells Sky News he plans to impose 20% cuts on every government department in order to pay for his planned tax cuts.

    And that 20 per cent figure tells us that this is either not serious or is damn stupid. It is plucked out of thin air, it is too large for simple efficiency savings (which, by the way, everyone has tried) but there is no accompanying policy that would naturally slice a fifth off anyone's spending; it is to be uniform across Whitehall, again with no regard to policy.
    Very well said. The dead wood has already been cut away. Arbitrarily cutting away x% is not going to be achieved or work.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    It is honest
    It is not honest, just the opposite, because there is no way Zahawi could deliver (or impose) 20 per cent cuts across every department, and he knows it.
    It does at least acknowledge the need to do something if he cuts taxes. So its something even though it's not a serious plan.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Mrs Thatcher would have kicked his arse if she wasn’t too busy spinning in her grave.

    Truss-backing Kwasi Kwarteng tells @kateferguson4 in The Sun: “We can’t simply be accountants trying to balance the books the whole time.”

    Agree or not, that’s quite a thing for a CONSERVATIVE cabinet minister to say.

    Imagine if a Labour frontbencher said that

    https://twitter.com/mattchorley/status/1546387725250699264?s=21&t=3SlSzbtD0n-Z_C0wHvRxiQ

    We cant be just trying to balance the books all the time. So let's throw away the books altogether!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited July 2022
    kle4 said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    Well you were complaining last thread about none of them being serious or attempting to balance the books.
    The tweet is:-
    Nadh Zahawi tells Sky News he plans to impose 20% cuts on every government department in order to pay for his planned tax cuts.

    And that 20 per cent figure tells us that this is either not serious or is damn stupid. It is plucked out of thin air, it is too large for simple efficiency savings (which, by the way, everyone has tried) but there is no accompanying policy that would naturally slice a fifth off anyone's spending; it is to be uniform across Whitehall, again with no regard to policy.
    Very well said. The dead wood has already been cut away. Arbitrarily cutting away x% is not going to be achieved or work.
    What do you mean it’s not going to work?

    These people literally don’t give a fuck.

    Tax cuts. Burn the state.

    Fucking crazy if you ask me, but from their perspective, it’ll be working fine. For them.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited July 2022
    kle4 said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    It is honest
    It is not honest, just the opposite, because there is no way Zahawi could deliver (or impose) 20 per cent cuts across every department, and he knows it.
    It does at least acknowledge the need to do something if he cuts taxes. So its something even though it's not a serious plan.
    Which would be fine were he a random voter.
    It is utterly pathetic, or possibly delusional from the Chancellor.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield
    ·
    22m
    Kwasi Kwarteng - who is backing Liz Truss to be PM - agrees that public spending cuts will also be needed, (although won't say where) in order to bring down taxes.

    The Conservatives are writing Labour's next election campaign for them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    rottenborough said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Mrs Thatcher would have kicked his arse if she wasn’t too busy spinning in her grave.

    Truss-backing Kwasi Kwarteng tells @kateferguson4 in The Sun: “We can’t simply be accountants trying to balance the books the whole time.”

    Agree or not, that’s quite a thing for a CONSERVATIVE cabinet minister to say.

    Imagine if a Labour frontbencher said that

    https://twitter.com/mattchorley/status/1546387725250699264?s=21&t=3SlSzbtD0n-Z_C0wHvRxiQ

    They all claim they worship the Blessed Margaret and yet none of them seem to have a clue what she believed in.

    Priests have always been adept at interpreting the word of God flexibly to justify anything. The priests of thatcherism are no different.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,059
    From previous thread, if it's not too gauche to carry forward a discussion...
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Dr. Bondegezou, this is the first time you've decided to mention the specific instance of the shooting.

    I did not mention Norse slavery in response to the shooting. I mentioned it in response to the trans-Atlantic slave trade to put it into some historical context.

    If and when the police screw up they should be held to account. It's no more complicated than that. Raising one part of historic slavery and then complaining when others refer to that and put it in some context is unreasonable.

    I'm more than happy to concede that the US police are too trigger happy and seem to want to dominate a situation rather than, if possible, defuse it.

    You mentioned Black Lives Matter. BLM was a specific response to shootings of Black people by the US police. I am confused how we can discuss BLM without discussing police shootings. I presumed we were always discussing police shootings.

    When seeking to understand police shootings of Black people in the US, what historical events should we turn to? Does an understanding of Norse slavery tell us much about why it's happening? Does an analysis of the Barbary pirates abducting people into slavery shed much light? No, it's the transatlantic slave trade and slavery in the US, and then the Jim Crow period after slavery was abolished but segregation continued, that is clearly of relevance.

    Yes, there has been other slavery in world history. But the reason why the BLM movement focuses on the enslavement of Black people in North America is obvious, because it's relevant to US police shootings, via a long history of the police being the enforcers of white supremacy, particularly in former slave states.

    Responding to the BLM movement by saying that the transatlantic slave trade is a "small slice" of world history is odd, both because clearly the transatlantic slave trade is clearly a large slice of the history of slavery globally and because it ignores the direct relevance of the transatlantic slave trade to the specific issues BLM seeks to address.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    All medical interventions for over 75s would be fair and rational.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT...

    Fishing said:

    bondegezou said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Gezou, the Romans and Greeks had slaves. As did the Norse and Anglo-Saxons, the Arabs and the Chinese. Barbary pirates seized whites and sold them as slaves to the Ottomans.

    The major difference is that only the trans-Atlantic trade is on BLM's radar because it's the only one that comes close to fitting their nonsense, and that's disregarding the slaves were sold by black traders in Africa, and the trade was ended by the British Empire (which does not wipe out what went before but is worthy of acknowledgement).

    As for racism in America, that's certainly, sadly, still in existence. Fighting it with BLM and related nonsense is as foolish as trying to fight inequality with Communism.

    Slavery in North America lasted from 1526 to 1865, so 339 years. The transatlantic slave trade as a whole shipped over 12 million Africans to the Americas. To call that a “small slice” seems odd. It is, for obvious reasons, of rather more import to the modern US than the practices of slavery in ancient Athens or among the Anglo-Saxons. The last US slave died in my lifetime: it’s a lot more recent than slavery among the Norse.

    I’m glad you acknowledge that racism is alive and well in the US. How do you think it should be fought? What is problematic about highlighting the high rate of police killings of Black people in the US?

    (“bondegezou” is all one word, and it’s Dr or Prof not Mr.)
    Blacks are killed by the police greater than their share of the population, but at about their share of convicted violent criminals, so it is far from certain that the high rate is unjustified overall, whatever may be the case in individual shootings.

    Unarmed blacks are rather more likely than whites to be shot, but Asians and Pacific Islanders significantly less so. Does that mean that the police are discriminating in favour of those minorities?

    Men are killed by the police about 25x more often than women, but as far as I know we've never had a Male Lives Matter movement. As they are much more likely than women to be violent criminals, people accept that disparity.

    Another strange fact is that blacks are more likely to be killed in urban areas, while whites are in rural areas.

    When I first started looking at the statistics, I was prepared to find horrible evidence of discrimination overall, but somewhat to my surprise the picture is as murky and ambigious as these matters often are. Most of the problem is a hugely over-armed police force and population, rather than racism, which no doubt exists.
    Like most things, it's complex.

    If you live in - say - a nice part of Los Angeles, you will find that the police force is a largely multi-ethnic force, of whites, hispanics and African Americans, who treat pretty much everyone pretty well.

    Sure, there are petty grumbles. But I - and none of my friends - have any cause to be upset with our local police force.

    What is true of West Los Angeles is not true of everywhere.

    There are cities in the US where African Americans make up four in ten of the population, but less than one in ten of the police. With high segregated geography, and no African Americans that have ever progressed beyond the rank of patrolman... well, when the cop car cruises by, it looks awfully like an occupying army.

    From where I sit, I don't see much in the way of discrimination. In nice middle class areas, where jobs are plenty, schools are well funded and the offence most likely to get you in a courthouse is speeding... well, life is pretty good.

    But I'd sure as shit not like to grow up as a poor black man in Alabama or Mississippi.
    Even worse ... fancy growing up in parts of Bedford where weird, follicularly challenged, betting maestros plot the yellow peril revolution and chant "winning here" wearing orange robes and sandals ?!?! .... life can be rough on some kids
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    So, looking at the field then, only Sunak seems to be the one vaguely honest about the pain ahead / levels of funding required?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    It needs a total efficiency overhaul, but the problem is it has become a religion that must not be criticised

    I have no idea when it will happen but ultimately a new funding model will become unavoidable
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Ditto schools ?

    And remove the state pension from every fifth pensioner.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Following the GBR scheme we could do it by public vote - the hospital / surgery with least votes is eliminated. After all this is a "democracy"
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    I don't think we've ever seen a Government intentional destroy it's ability to deliver anything before.

    I almost want him to win so I can watch the disaster from a distance - however, I do intend to live in the UK so can I point out how stupid this idea is...

    It's also worth saying that the Government is going to see 5-10% cuts this year anyway because unless wages increase competent workers are going to be seeking better paid work elsewhere.
    Good!

    So what you're saying is that competent workers will be going to productive parts of the economy, where they will be generating taxes, and the cuts will feasibly happen anyway.

    Brilliant way to balance the books. Go for it. 👍
    You do realise that teachers and doctors have to pay tax?
    Not net to the Treasury, no they don't.

    The Treasury pays them the money it then recycles a fraction back to itself in tax. Its like saying the EU was paying for roads etc in this country when it was a fraction of our own money handed back to us.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    edited July 2022
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Mrs Thatcher would have kicked his arse if she wasn’t too busy spinning in her grave.

    Truss-backing Kwasi Kwarteng tells @kateferguson4 in The Sun: “We can’t simply be accountants trying to balance the books the whole time.”

    Agree or not, that’s quite a thing for a CONSERVATIVE cabinet minister to say.

    Imagine if a Labour frontbencher said that

    https://twitter.com/mattchorley/status/1546387725250699264?s=21&t=3SlSzbtD0n-Z_C0wHvRxiQ

    Well, there is an argument for countercyclical spending, what with the imminent recession and all. It will be very difficult to balance the books in the short term. In the longer term they need to balance and it is possible to have a road map to that.

    Mrs Thatcher had 3 major pots of money to fund her tax cuts: North Sea oil, privatisations and deregulation of financial services in the big bang.

    The next PM won't.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    IshmaelZ said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    All medical interventions for over 75s would be fair and rational.
    That would be another way of cutting pension costs...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    IshmaelZ said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    All medical interventions for over 75s would be fair and rational.
    There are medical interventions that cease including bowel cancer screening
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    I have a clear vision for our country and economy - and the experience and resolve to deliver it.

    https://lizforleader.co.uk
    #lizforleader https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1546399020754550784/video/1
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Ditto schools ?

    And remove the state pension from every fifth pensioner.
    Yes, it is simple really. Like the decimation of a Roman Legion, repeated to get a double effect.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Scott_xP said:

    I have a clear vision for our country and economy - and the experience and resolve to deliver it.

    https://lizforleader.co.uk
    #lizforleader https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1546399020754550784/video/1

    Ugh
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    Razedabode said:

    So, looking at the field then, only Sunak seems to be the one vaguely honest about the pain ahead / levels of funding required?

    There is no doubt that Sunak is acting responsibly when some are taking leave of their senses on tax cuts and ironically are not where the public are
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    It needs a total efficiency overhaul, but the problem is it has become a religion that must not be criticised

    I have no idea when it will happen but ultimately a new funding model will become unavoidable
    Ah yes, the “efficiency” unicorn
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    It needs a total efficiency overhaul, but the problem is it has become a religion that must not be criticised

    I have no idea when it will happen but ultimately a new funding model will become unavoidable
    Ah but will this hypothetical new funding model actually be cheaper or more efficient than the current one, whereby we pay less than comparable nations?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    FPT:
    Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the MP threshold might be heightened for leadership candidates:
    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1546231925827846144

    If I were Sunak and had support to spare, I'd be tempted to try and get someone helpful through the first stage.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Gallowgate said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    It needs a total efficiency overhaul, but the problem is it has become a religion that must not be criticised

    I have no idea when it will happen but ultimately a new funding model will become unavoidable
    Ah yes, the “efficiency” unicorn
    Front line angels and heroes vs footling, pen pushing administrators.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    All medical interventions for over 75s would be fair and rational.
    That would be another way of cutting pension costs...
    Have any of the Tory PM candidates recommended merging NI and income tax? (even if this means jettisoning the old 'entitlement to state OAP is paid for by NI'). I missed it if any did.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Following the GBR scheme we could do it by public vote - the hospital / surgery with least votes is eliminated. After all this is a "democracy"
    Or The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence could cut the QALY utility score from £20/30k to £2/3k.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    @turbotubbs fpt:

    Hi Turbo, re your reply to me on the last thread. To be honest I don't actually disagree with your post at all. You are correct, but I quite enjoyed my analogy so posted it and obviously others did by the likes it got, so I couldn't resist.

    In terms of the substance of the post. Yes we have Brexited. I agree we have and we have to make the best of it.

    However some on here refer to it having been done. There is a big difference between technically leaving (which any idiot could achieve) and leaving well (which could be in many forms). Many seem to believe (or argue anyway) it is done and dusted. It isn't.

    Hence the plane crash analogy. Nobody would say a plane crashing is landing, but it is certainly on the ground. That is analogous to Brexit. We haven't landed it, we have crashed it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Ditto schools ?

    And remove the state pension from every fifth pensioner.
    Yes, it is simple really. Like the decimation of a Roman Legion, repeated to get a double effect.
    On a point of PB pedantry, repeated decimation would only get you down to 81% ...
    If you were selective about it, you could reduce costs rather more than that.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    All medical interventions for over 75s would be fair and rational.
    There are medical interventions that cease including bowel cancer screening
    That seems to be on rather persuasive medical grounds not as a form of rationing

    I was illustrating the absurdity of rationing rules rather than making a serious suggestion btw.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Mrs Thatcher would have kicked his arse if she wasn’t too busy spinning in her grave.

    Truss-backing Kwasi Kwarteng tells @kateferguson4 in The Sun: “We can’t simply be accountants trying to balance the books the whole time.”

    Agree or not, that’s quite a thing for a CONSERVATIVE cabinet minister to say.

    Imagine if a Labour frontbencher said that

    https://twitter.com/mattchorley/status/1546387725250699264?s=21&t=3SlSzbtD0n-Z_C0wHvRxiQ

    Well, there is an argument for countercyclical spending, what with the imminent recession and all. It will be very difficult to balance the books in the short term. In the longer term they need to balance and it is possible to have a road map to that.

    Mrs Thatcher had 3 major pots of money to fund her tax cuts: North Sea oil, privatisations and deregulation of financial services in the big bang.

    The next PM won't.
    The next couple of years are going to be horrible economically, no matter who’s elected. The whole of the Western world has the same problem.

    There needs to be a concerted international effort to put Putin back in his box, and to get global manufacturing and logistics back up and running. In the medium term, make a start on making high-end manufacturing less reliant on supply chains from unreliable autocracies such as China.
    An interesting article from yesterday:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/10/why-be-a-poor-version-of-germany-instead-of-doing-what-we-do-best

    It makes the valid point that as an advanced service economy, investment needs to go into the infrastructure for these, which sounds a lot like the Universities, not just into industrial plant.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    The Daily Maily Lurpak Spreadable Obsession continues.

    https://tinyurl.com/4decxxpd
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    It needs a total efficiency overhaul, but the problem is it has become a religion that must not be criticised

    I have no idea when it will happen but ultimately a new funding model will become unavoidable
    Ah but will this hypothetical new funding model actually be cheaper or more efficient than the current one, whereby we pay less than comparable nations?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita
    Reorganisations tend to cost money in the near term anyway.
    If your going to pursue them, you have to be pretty certain they are going to work.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Ditto schools ?

    And remove the state pension from every fifth pensioner.
    Yes, it is simple really. Like the decimation of a Roman Legion, repeated to get a double effect.
    On a point of PB pedantry, repeated decimation would only get you down to 81% ...
    If you were selective about it, you could reduce costs rather more than that.
    By targeting the officers a double decimation should balance the legions budget nicely.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,662
    Appropriate to store beer in work fridge ready for evening drinks in the park?

    Not explicitly ruled out anywhere...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    kjh said:

    @turbotubbs fpt:

    Hi Turbo, re your reply to me on the last thread. To be honest I don't actually disagree with your post at all. You are correct, but I quite enjoyed my analogy so posted it and obviously others did by the likes it got, so I couldn't resist.

    In terms of the substance of the post. Yes we have Brexited. I agree we have and we have to make the best of it.

    However some on here refer to it having been done. There is a big difference between technically leaving (which any idiot could achieve) and leaving well (which could be in many forms). Many seem to believe (or argue anyway) it is done and dusted. It isn't.

    Hence the plane crash analogy. Nobody would say a plane crashing is landing, but it is certainly on the ground. That is analogous to Brexit. We haven't landed it, we have crashed it.

    Fair enough. I think if you ask the man or woman in the street if Brexit is done, they will say yes. I completely understand the argument about us now paying attention to things we didn't before, but to me this is a post Brexit issue, not an ongoing Brexit issue.

    Still, fun analogy! It does all feel a bit plane-crashy at times.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    At the moment in terms of MP endorsements it looks like Sunak and Mordaunt as the final 2 sent to the membership unless things change dramatically in the next few days.

    Though Tugendhat and Truss are not far behind in joint 3rd
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Ditto schools ?

    And remove the state pension from every fifth pensioner.
    Yes, it is simple really. Like the decimation of a Roman Legion, repeated to get a double effect.
    On a point of PB pedantry, repeated decimation would only get you down to 81% ...
    If you were selective about it, you could reduce costs rather more than that.
    Just thinking that making people cabinet ministers for 2 months or 2 days isn't helping with public spending, given the payoffs they get, is it?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    YBarddCwsc said:

    The Daily Maily Lurpak Spreadable Obsession continues.

    https://tinyurl.com/4decxxpd

    What? I bought butter yesterday for £1.60. Lurpak at £10?????
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Mrs Thatcher would have kicked his arse if she wasn’t too busy spinning in her grave.

    Truss-backing Kwasi Kwarteng tells @kateferguson4 in The Sun: “We can’t simply be accountants trying to balance the books the whole time.”

    Agree or not, that’s quite a thing for a CONSERVATIVE cabinet minister to say.

    Imagine if a Labour frontbencher said that

    https://twitter.com/mattchorley/status/1546387725250699264?s=21&t=3SlSzbtD0n-Z_C0wHvRxiQ

    Well, there is an argument for countercyclical spending, what with the imminent recession and all. It will be very difficult to balance the books in the short term. In the longer term they need to balance and it is possible to have a road map to that.

    Mrs Thatcher had 3 major pots of money to fund her tax cuts: North Sea oil, privatisations and deregulation of financial services in the big bang.

    The next PM won't.
    The next couple of years are going to be horrible economically, no matter who’s elected. The whole of the Western world has the same problem.

    There needs to be a concerted international effort to put Putin back in his box, and to get global manufacturing and logistics back up and running. In the medium term, make a start on making high-end manufacturing less reliant on supply chains from unreliable autocracies such as China.
    The coming pain is pretty obvious, but I very much doubt will be discussed in any practical manner during the leadership election.

    Zahawi's 'cut 20% of everything' is just the reductio ad absurdam of the message of the majority of the candidates.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Would anyone notice if the GPs disappeared ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Beibheirli_C said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    The Daily Maily Lurpak Spreadable Obsession continues.

    https://tinyurl.com/4decxxpd

    What? I bought butter yesterday for £1.60. Lurpak at £10?????
    Supply and demand?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    Latest figures on race

    161 mps voted

    Top 4

    Sunak - 37
    Mordaunt - 24
    Tugenhat - 18
    Truss - 18
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    At the moment in terms of MP endorsements it looks like Sunak and Mordaunt as the final 2 sent to the membership unless things change dramatically in the next few days.

    Though Tugendhat and Truss are not far behind in joint 3rd

    Things will change dramatically as the supporters of the 4 immediately below them redistribute themselves in light of heightened minimum support requirements
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Ditto schools ?

    And remove the state pension from every fifth pensioner.
    Yes, it is simple really. Like the decimation of a Roman Legion, repeated to get a double effect.
    On a point of PB pedantry, repeated decimation would only get you down to 81% ...
    If you were selective about it, you could reduce costs rather more than that.
    By targeting the officers a double decimation should balance the legions budget nicely.
    Except a Roman legion had a muich higher proportion of experienced centurions promoted from the ranks than the British army did for most of its life. Definitely not the ones you wanted to lose ... now, the legates and tribunes were a different matter ...
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Mrs Thatcher would have kicked his arse if she wasn’t too busy spinning in her grave.

    Truss-backing Kwasi Kwarteng tells @kateferguson4 in The Sun: “We can’t simply be accountants trying to balance the books the whole time.”

    Agree or not, that’s quite a thing for a CONSERVATIVE cabinet minister to say.

    Imagine if a Labour frontbencher said that

    https://twitter.com/mattchorley/status/1546387725250699264?s=21&t=3SlSzbtD0n-Z_C0wHvRxiQ

    Well, there is an argument for countercyclical spending, what with the imminent recession and all. It will be very difficult to balance the books in the short term. In the longer term they need to balance and it is possible to have a road map to that.

    Mrs Thatcher had 3 major pots of money to fund her tax cuts: North Sea oil, privatisations and deregulation of financial services in the big bang.

    The next PM won't.
    The next couple of years are going to be horrible economically, no matter who’s elected. The whole of the Western world has the same problem.

    There needs to be a concerted international effort to put Putin back in his box, and to get global manufacturing and logistics back up and running. In the medium term, make a start on making high-end manufacturing less reliant on supply chains from unreliable autocracies such as China.
    An interesting article from yesterday:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/10/why-be-a-poor-version-of-germany-instead-of-doing-what-we-do-best

    It makes the valid point that as an advanced service economy, investment needs to go into the infrastructure for these, which sounds a lot like the Universities, not just into industrial plant.
    Is not the author of the article the creator of the famous Ed-stone? Which kinda shreds his credibility, no?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    HYUFD said:

    At the moment in terms of MP endorsements it looks like Sunak and Mordaunt as the final 2 sent to the membership unless things change dramatically in the next few days.

    Though Tugendhat and Truss are not far behind in joint 3rd

    Half the MPs have declared a choice yet surely?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Beibheirli_C said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    The Daily Maily Lurpak Spreadable Obsession continues.

    https://tinyurl.com/4decxxpd

    What? I bought butter yesterday for £1.60. Lurpak at £10?????
    And it's not like spreadability is an issue in this weather, just leave it out of the fridge
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Beibheirli_C said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    The Daily Maily Lurpak Spreadable Obsession continues.

    https://tinyurl.com/4decxxpd

    What? I bought butter yesterday for £1.60. Lurpak at £10?????
    The price of Lurpak Spreadable has displaced Meghan as the new Daily Mail obsession.

    There is normally an article every day on it the moment.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    rottenborough said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    The Daily Maily Lurpak Spreadable Obsession continues.

    https://tinyurl.com/4decxxpd

    What? I bought butter yesterday for £1.60. Lurpak at £10?????
    Supply and demand?
    Depends on weight

    Asda prices today for Lurpak

    250g £2.75
    500g £5.00
    750g £5.25
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    #British Foreign Secretary Liz Truss nominated for Prime Minister. She is a worthy candidate. She supports #Ukraine and takes an anti-putin stance. In particular, she supports the idea of a tribunal against putin. Good luck, @trussliz! https://twitter.com/kiraincongress/status/1546405179616100353/photo/1
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Ditto schools ?

    And remove the state pension from every fifth pensioner.
    Yes, it is simple really. Like the decimation of a Roman Legion, repeated to get a double effect.
    On a point of PB pedantry, repeated decimation would only get you down to 81% ...
    If you were selective about it, you could reduce costs rather more than that.
    Just thinking that making people cabinet ministers for 2 months or 2 days isn't helping with public spending, given the payoffs they get, is it?
    I note Bone has yet to pledge his Boris bung to charity, as did the Education Minister for a day (whose name I've already forgotten).
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,525
    HYUFD said:

    At the moment in terms of MP endorsements it looks like Sunak and Mordaunt as the final 2 sent to the membership unless things change dramatically in the next few days.

    Though Tugendhat and Truss are not far behind in joint 3rd

    We will get a clearer picture after the Truss and (probably) Patel launches today. Can't help feeling it will end up as Sunak vs Truss as seemed likely all along. Some of the others are probably just bidding for Cabinet slots.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Following the GBR scheme we could do it by public vote - the hospital / surgery with least votes is eliminated. After all this is a "democracy"
    Or The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence could cut the QALY utility score from £20/30k to £2/3k.
    We know what will happen.

    The tax-slashing winner will get in - do one of the tax cuts probably income tax by adding to the debt pile and then bluster about the others until everyone has forgotten.

    Truss's idea about turning covid debt into some kind of extremely long war bond might be worth looking into, but it is a very different world to the 1940s.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Would anyone notice if the GPs disappeared ?
    Considering that they deliver 90% of healthcare consultations in primary care, I suspect so.

    I suppose we could deregulate all medicines, let people use Google for self diagnosis and have a free market in healthcare. It would save on pharmacies too.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Eabhal said:

    Appropriate to store beer in work fridge ready for evening drinks in the park?

    Not explicitly ruled out anywhere...

    By the laws of nature, everything which is not forbidden is compulsory

    - Someone
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    HYUFD said:

    At the moment in terms of MP endorsements it looks like Sunak and Mordaunt as the final 2 sent to the membership unless things change dramatically in the next few days.

    Though Tugendhat and Truss are not far behind in joint 3rd

    Though there's a lot of consolidation still to happen on the right, isn't there? It's not one-shot FPTP.

    Whilst a Sunak-Mordaunt runoff would leave me cautiously hopeful, I suspect it would leave a lot of Conservative supporters seriously dischuffed.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    YBarddCwsc said:

    The Daily Maily Lurpak Spreadable Obsession continues.

    https://tinyurl.com/4decxxpd

    A story which illustrates so many lies and misunderstandings about what is happening out there:
    1kg of butter? Who in their right mind buys that for domestic use? So the basic proposition is silly. Whats more, other brands are available who do basically the same product for less cost per kilo.

    But - and its a big but - read and understand the comments and analysis about the dairy industry. There have been some *whopping* price rises. So the industry can afford to pay people more. And yet cannot find staff. Because quite simply British workers do not want to work in agriculture / food. At any price. We continue to have a staff shortage. And the "point-based migration" system fails to do its job and bring people in.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    🔴NEW: Jeremy Hunt says he wants to cut 'all taxes' if he replaces Boris Johnson

    Follow the latest update here ⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/11/boris-johnson-liz-truss-next-prime-minister-leadership-priti/ https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1546405691849596928/photo/1
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "Tory Chancellor threatens £30bn less for the NHS and £9bn less for Defence" - is this remotely serious? https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546376012572811264

    I don't think we've ever seen a Government intentional destroy it's ability to deliver anything before.

    I almost want him to win so I can watch the disaster from a distance - however, I do intend to live in the UK so can I point out how stupid this idea is...

    It's also worth saying that the Government is going to see 5-10% cuts this year anyway because unless wages increase competent workers are going to be seeking better paid work elsewhere.
    Good!

    So what you're saying is that competent workers will be going to productive parts of the economy, where they will be generating taxes, and the cuts will feasibly happen anyway.

    Brilliant way to balance the books. Go for it. 👍
    You do realise that teachers and doctors have to pay tax?
    Not net to the Treasury, no they don't.

    The Treasury pays them the money it then recycles a fraction back to itself in tax. Its like saying the EU was paying for roads etc in this country when it was a fraction of our own money handed back to us.
    On the other hand, nearly all of the public money paid to fund education and the NHS stays in, and circulates around, the UK economy. Whereas tax cuts that help people accumulate wealth often often go offshore or are lost in inflating the property market.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited July 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Ditto schools ?

    And remove the state pension from every fifth pensioner.
    Yes, it is simple really. Like the decimation of a Roman Legion, repeated to get a double effect.
    On a point of PB pedantry, repeated decimation would only get you down to 81% ...
    If you were selective about it, you could reduce costs rather more than that.
    Just thinking that making people cabinet ministers for 2 months or 2 days isn't helping with public spending, given the payoffs they get, is it?
    I note Bone has yet to pledge his Boris bung to charity, as did the Education Minister for a day (whose name I've already forgotten).
    What the hell are they doing spending the money even for that?! If they don't think it legitimate to claim then they shouldn't bloody claim it. Doesn't matter if they spend it on the dogs at Wallyford or send it to Oxfam. It's still spending it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Liz Truss campaign launch video


    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1546399020754550784?s=20&t=VJPzY7sUkZyZ9BTin7SLYg
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Would anyone notice if the GPs disappeared ?
    Considering that they deliver 90% of healthcare consultations in primary care, I suspect so.

    I suppose we could deregulate all medicines, let people use Google for self diagnosis and have a free market in healthcare. It would save on pharmacies too.
    GPs are already disappearing and boy have people noticed!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    rottenborough said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment in terms of MP endorsements it looks like Sunak and Mordaunt as the final 2 sent to the membership unless things change dramatically in the next few days.

    Though Tugendhat and Truss are not far behind in joint 3rd

    Half the MPs have declared a choice yet surely?
    161
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Winning the day so far: Tom Tugendhat, whose team have cleverly bought the banner ads on ConservativeHome to project a message of unity amid the mud throwing https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1546404059300728832/photo/1
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited July 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Winning the day so far: Tom Tugendhat, whose team have cleverly bought the banner ads on ConservativeHome to project a message of unity amid the mud throwing https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1546404059300728832/photo/1

    HYFUD assured me the other day that ConHome is full of wannabes and hangers-on, very few Conservative Members. It seems silly to waste that advertising money on non-members :D:D
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Scott_xP said:

    🔴NEW: Jeremy Hunt says he wants to cut 'all taxes' if he replaces Boris Johnson

    Follow the latest update here ⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/11/boris-johnson-liz-truss-next-prime-minister-leadership-priti/ https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1546405691849596928/photo/1

    What happened? Just a few weeks ago he was a sane pair of hands?

    Desperation to be thought a contender, I suppose.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    rottenborough said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Following the GBR scheme we could do it by public vote - the hospital / surgery with least votes is eliminated. After all this is a "democracy"
    Or The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence could cut the QALY utility score from £20/30k to £2/3k.
    We know what will happen.

    The tax-slashing winner will get in - do one of the tax cuts probably income tax by adding to the debt pile and then bluster about the others until everyone has forgotten.

    Truss's idea about turning covid debt into some kind of extremely long war bond might be worth looking into, but it is a very different world to the 1940s.
    It was something worth doing in 2020 or even early 2021. The cost of doing it now is way, way more than it was then.

    In 2020 / 2021 inflation was a pipe dream - now it's reality and there is no way my pension fund is going to accept a 3-5% return when inflation is 10%...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss campaign launch video


    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1546399020754550784?s=20&t=VJPzY7sUkZyZ9BTin7SLYg

    Another one - she has been releasing them for the last year at least
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Paul Bristow's wife had the right response when he said he was considering standing for the leadership
    https://twitter.com/paulbristow79/status/1546385449815609344?s=20&t=VJPzY7sUkZyZ9BTin7SLYg
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    YBarddCwsc said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Mrs Thatcher would have kicked his arse if she wasn’t too busy spinning in her grave.

    Truss-backing Kwasi Kwarteng tells @kateferguson4 in The Sun: “We can’t simply be accountants trying to balance the books the whole time.”

    Agree or not, that’s quite a thing for a CONSERVATIVE cabinet minister to say.

    Imagine if a Labour frontbencher said that

    https://twitter.com/mattchorley/status/1546387725250699264?s=21&t=3SlSzbtD0n-Z_C0wHvRxiQ

    Well, there is an argument for countercyclical spending, what with the imminent recession and all. It will be very difficult to balance the books in the short term. In the longer term they need to balance and it is possible to have a road map to that.

    Mrs Thatcher had 3 major pots of money to fund her tax cuts: North Sea oil, privatisations and deregulation of financial services in the big bang.

    The next PM won't.
    The next couple of years are going to be horrible economically, no matter who’s elected. The whole of the Western world has the same problem.

    There needs to be a concerted international effort to put Putin back in his box, and to get global manufacturing and logistics back up and running. In the medium term, make a start on making high-end manufacturing less reliant on supply chains from unreliable autocracies such as China.
    An interesting article from yesterday:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/10/why-be-a-poor-version-of-germany-instead-of-doing-what-we-do-best

    It makes the valid point that as an advanced service economy, investment needs to go into the infrastructure for these, which sounds a lot like the Universities, not just into industrial plant.
    Is not the author of the article the creator of the famous Ed-stone? Which kinda shreds his credibility, no?
    The Ed-Stone was a marvellous conception, and occasioned perhaps the greatest political quote of all time.
    "I don't think anyone is suggesting that the fact that he's carved them in stone means he's absolutely not going to break them or anything like that".
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    HYUFD said:

    Paul Bristow's wife had the right response when he said he was considering standing for the leadership
    https://twitter.com/paulbristow79/status/1546385449815609344?s=20&t=VJPzY7sUkZyZ9BTin7SLYg

    Pity other partners hadn't done the same
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Gallowgate said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales what NHS services would you cut?

    The simplest way would be to close every fifth hospital and GP surgery, and not replace them.
    Ditto schools ?

    And remove the state pension from every fifth pensioner.
    Yes, it is simple really. Like the decimation of a Roman Legion, repeated to get a double effect.
    On a point of PB pedantry, repeated decimation would only get you down to 81% ...
    If you were selective about it, you could reduce costs rather more than that.
    By targeting the officers a double decimation should balance the legions budget nicely.
    Or replace the QALY with the QADY ?
    (Quality adjusted death year)
This discussion has been closed.