Big unfunded tax cuts, except Sunak, who prefers unfunded benefits; performatively anti-youth culture politics, except Thingyhat and bizarrely Shapps; and every single one wants a to fight the EU to impose a locally unpopular policy on a province they don't care about.
God. This Tory Party race is depressing. It's unfunded tax cuts to pay for themselves as foretold. And continuity Boris policies. Will it win them another five years, as they once again run against the previous regime, blaming it for all travails? Probably. And that's the most depressing of all.
What do you mean by timid? Saying it was a terrible mistake? Wanting to rejoin the single market and customs union? I understand the frustration but what do people actually want Starmer to do?
Jesus Christ, more mythical tax cuts. WHERE IS THE MONEY COMING FROM
The under 40s of course. More debt for them to clear.
You need to understand how important it is to shovel more money into the banks and houses belong to the 70+ year olds that comprise the Tory core vote.
Jesus Christ, Gove’s getting some good shit. He’s off his tits.
I know Badenoch is unlikely to get through to the membership, but I’m worried she will by some fluke, and if she does the batshit crazy membership might just give it to her.
On a positive note, it would be great to see a black woman as PM.
That’s the only positive I can see. Well, maybe the other one would be to make the Tories unelectable. Nothing to do with her gender, or colour. Entirely to do with the fact that she’s absolutely fucking mental.
She’s the Tory id personified, right there before our eyes. Reduce the state to its bare essentials? I wonder what she sees as essential and what can be happily sacrificed as non-essential. You can guess, can’t you?
Johnson’s done his job for the Tories. The conventional wisdom is that he has used the party simply to achieve power. Perhaps with time we’ll come to think that it was the party that has used Johnson. An unconventional politician who appealed to Leavers across the traditional spectrum and got us out of the EU. Jettisoned when his magic started to fade along, perhaps, with any pretence of levelling up; the party can bin all the Brexit ‘benefits’ the Red Wall seem to think is their due, that Johnson is the hapless face of, and shamelessly return to cutting and slashing and reducing the services that mean so much to the Red Wallers.
Tragic, really, and completely amoral. But, hey, Tories gonna Tory.
Why should Keir Starmer change his current stance on Brexit, when that stance is heavily backed by supporters of all the main parties?
i.e. Opinium VI poll 6th July 2022
Question: Regarding Brexit, earlier this week Keir Starmer said that Labour’s policy would be to “sort out the poor deal Boris Johnson signed” but he said that a Labour government would NOT take Britain back into the EU’s single market or customs union or return to “free movement” of people between the UK and the EU. Do you think he was right or wrong to say this?
Results: Right/Wrong to say this by current VI
All 51% right, 23% wrong Con 63% right, 18% wrong Lab 56% right, 25% wrong LD 45% right, 30% wrong
Professor John Curtice says Scottish independence won't be hurt by resignation of Boris Johnson
THE resignation of Boris Johnson will not impact on support for independence as his Brexit legacy will not disappear with him, Scotland’s leading pollster has said.
As the Prime Minister who was dubbed the “best recruiting sergeant” for independence, questions have been raised over whether Johnson’s departure will make a difference to the campaign to leave the UK.
(The National; €)
It won't affect the UK government's refusal of an official indyref2 either!!
You’d still be saying that if support for Scottish independence was 60%+, which seems to be the objective of current Conservative policy.
Don't be ridiculous, Stuart. Surely even you don't think there's an objective to current Conservative policy?
Why should Keir Starmer change his current stance on Brexit, when that stance is heavily backed by supporters of all the main parties?
i.e. Opinium VI poll 6th July 2022
Question: Regarding Brexit, earlier this week Keir Starmer said that Labour’s policy would be to “sort out the poor deal Boris Johnson signed” but he said that a Labour government would NOT take Britain back into the EU’s single market or customs union or return to “free movement” of people between the UK and the EU. Do you think he was right or wrong to say this?
Results: Right/Wrong to say this by current VI
All 51% right, 23% wrong Con 63% right, 18% wrong Lab 56% right, 25% wrong LD 45% right, 30% wrong
No Starmer can't afford to be less timid on Brexit. He has a net +8% rating in redwall seats in a Sunday Times poll today, higher than all the Tory leadership contenders precisely as he has ruled out rejoining the EU and single market and free movement.
Without winning back those redwall seats from the Tories Labour has zero chance of depriving the Tories of their majority and Starmer has zero chance of becoming PM.
Why should Keir Starmer change his current stance on Brexit, when that stance is heavily backed by supporters of all the main parties?
i.e. Opinium VI poll 6th July 2022
Question: Regarding Brexit, earlier this week Keir Starmer said that Labour’s policy would be to “sort out the poor deal Boris Johnson signed” but he said that a Labour government would NOT take Britain back into the EU’s single market or customs union or return to “free movement” of people between the UK and the EU. Do you think he was right or wrong to say this?
Results: Right/Wrong to say this by current VI
All 51% right, 23% wrong Con 63% right, 18% wrong Lab 56% right, 25% wrong LD 45% right, 30% wrong
Yes. That's where I am. Was Brexit right or wrong? Wrong. I voted Remain, and haven't seen any reason why I ought to regret that. Do I want to waste another 5 years obsessing about it? No bloody way.
and every single one wants a to fight the EU to impose a locally unpopular policy on a province they don't care about.
That's the real mystery. I wonder if they think their grassroots will deem it a surrender to the EU? Are Tory members interested in Ulster?
Wings over Scotland commissioned some polling years back which IIRC showed that Tories (I think voters) would rather have Brexit than NI. Which is some way to being fulfilled, given that NI is still in the EU and distinctly semi-detached ...
Is Penny ‘Morduant’ some insider joke for the cool kids that I’ve missed? It’s getting as fckn hilarious as Sir Kier.
She would be Britain's first Catholic PM although I don't think she's particularly religious.
Eh? That can't be right, whether Anglican Catholic or Roman Catholic. Mr Johnson waves a hand re his marriage in a RC church, and his signing up to that kirk.
If Starmer starts to undo Brexit then I may vote Labour. If he maintains his current stance then he (and Labour) can go to hell along with the Tories
Which is a particularly interesting point from a Scottish point of view. Not to mention NI.
NI is disenfranchised anyway. No one living there can vote for a GB party. All they have to choose from is ex-terrorists and religious nutters who can never form a government in their own right.
Why should Keir Starmer change his current stance on Brexit, when that stance is heavily backed by supporters of all the main parties?
i.e. Opinium VI poll 6th July 2022
Question: Regarding Brexit, earlier this week Keir Starmer said that Labour’s policy would be to “sort out the poor deal Boris Johnson signed” but he said that a Labour government would NOT take Britain back into the EU’s single market or customs union or return to “free movement” of people between the UK and the EU. Do you think he was right or wrong to say this?
Results: Right/Wrong to say this by current VI
All 51% right, 23% wrong Con 63% right, 18% wrong Lab 56% right, 25% wrong LD 45% right, 30% wrong
Yes. That's where I am. Was Brexit right or wrong? Wrong. I voted Remain, and haven't seen any reason why I ought to regret that. Do I want to waste another 5 years obsessing about it? No bloody way.
That puts Labour and Conservatives on the same page with the LibDems , SNP and Plaid the only pro EU parties
Jesus Christ, Gove’s getting some good shit. He’s off his tits.
I know Badenoch is unlikely to get through to the membership, but I’m worried she will by some fluke, and if she does the batshit crazy membership might just give it to her.
On a positive note, it would be great to see a black woman as PM.
That’s the only positive I can see. Well, maybe the other one would be to make the Tories unelectable. Nothing to do with her gender, or colour. Entirely to do with the fact that she’s absolutely fucking mental.
She’s the Tory id personified, right there before our eyes. Reduce the state to its bare essentials? I wonder what she sees as essential and what can be happily sacrificed as non-essential. You can guess, can’t you?
Johnson’s done his job for the Tories. The conventional wisdom is that he has used the party simply to achieve power. Perhaps with time we’ll come to think that it was the party that has used Johnson. An unconventional politician who appealed to Leavers across the traditional spectrum and got us out of the EU. Jettisoned when his magic started to fade along, perhaps, with any pretence of levelling up; the party can bin all the Brexit ‘benefits’ the Red Wall seem to think is their due, that Johnson is the hapless face of, and shamelessly return to cutting and slashing and reducing the services that mean so much to the Red Wallers.
Tragic, really, and completely amoral. But, hey, Tories gonna Tory.
Yip.
The naïveté of Aaron Bell - and the other red wall tories who turned on Johnson is incredible. He was the best they were gonna get, policy-wise. They should have kept their head down, played the game and begged for pork. It was deeply undignified, but that was the game that had to be played.
I’ve never been a Johnson supporter, but called them out at the time - to universal derision on PB.
They’ve fked their constituents. And probably lost their seats.
Big unfunded tax cuts, except Sunak, who prefers unfunded benefits; performatively anti-youth culture politics, except Thingyhat and bizarrely Shapps; and every single one wants a to fight the EU to impose a locally unpopular policy on a province they don't care about.
You'd have thought Priti Patel would have decided by now whether or not to stand.
She's crafty. I think she's manoeuvering to stay in post. I always get the impression she's actually self-aware. She knows she can't win. But she can strongly influence others with her words. Look at the bounce Gove's just given.
Why should Keir Starmer change his current stance on Brexit, when that stance is heavily backed by supporters of all the main parties?
i.e. Opinium VI poll 6th July 2022
Question: Regarding Brexit, earlier this week Keir Starmer said that Labour’s policy would be to “sort out the poor deal Boris Johnson signed” but he said that a Labour government would NOT take Britain back into the EU’s single market or customs union or return to “free movement” of people between the UK and the EU. Do you think he was right or wrong to say this?
Results: Right/Wrong to say this by current VI
All 51% right, 23% wrong Con 63% right, 18% wrong Lab 56% right, 25% wrong LD 45% right, 30% wrong
Yes. That's where I am. Was Brexit right or wrong? Wrong. I voted Remain, and haven't seen any reason why I ought to regret that. Do I want to waste another 5 years obsessing about it? No bloody way.
That puts Labour and Conservatives on the same page with the LibDems , SNP and Plaid the only pro EU parties
Is Penny ‘Morduant’ some insider joke for the cool kids that I’ve missed? It’s getting as fckn hilarious as Sir Kier.
She would be Britain's first Catholic PM although I don't think she's particularly religious.
Eh? That can't be right, whether Anglican Catholic or Roman Catholic. Mr Johnson waves a hand re his marriage in a RC church, and his signing up to that kirk.
Yes Johnson has already been our first Roman Catholic PM in office (Blair converted to Rome having left office). Tugendhat would be our second Roman Catholic PM in office, he is also part Jewish.
Sunak would be our first Hindu PM too, Braverman the first Buddhist PM. Zahawi our first Muslim PM
If Starmer starts to undo Brexit then I may vote Labour. If he maintains his current stance then he (and Labour) can go to hell along with the Tories
Which is a particularly interesting point from a Scottish point of view. Not to mention NI.
NI is disenfranchised anyway. No one living there can vote for a GB party. All they have to choose from is ex-terrorists and religious nutters who can never form a government in their own right.
Yes, but they can channel huge donations to GB parties and campaigns without having to let on at all who they are (side effect of legislation intended for NI alone). Caused some grief during the Scottish independence referendum.
Big unfunded tax cuts, except Sunak, who prefers unfunded benefits; performatively anti-youth culture politics, except Thingyhat and bizarrely Shapps; and every single one wants a to fight the EU to impose a locally unpopular policy on a province they don't care about.
Anyone against Rwanda yet?
That would require a conscience. This is the Tories we are talking about.
Why should Keir Starmer change his current stance on Brexit, when that stance is heavily backed by supporters of all the main parties?
i.e. Opinium VI poll 6th July 2022
Question: Regarding Brexit, earlier this week Keir Starmer said that Labour’s policy would be to “sort out the poor deal Boris Johnson signed” but he said that a Labour government would NOT take Britain back into the EU’s single market or customs union or return to “free movement” of people between the UK and the EU. Do you think he was right or wrong to say this?
Results: Right/Wrong to say this by current VI
All 51% right, 23% wrong Con 63% right, 18% wrong Lab 56% right, 25% wrong LD 45% right, 30% wrong
Yes. That's where I am. Was Brexit right or wrong? Wrong. I voted Remain, and haven't seen any reason why I ought to regret that. Do I want to waste another 5 years obsessing about it? No bloody way.
I think Starmer was right to rule it out for the next Parliament, along with the SM, but to rule it out forever is just daft.
Not that he is going to last well in power, even if he scrapes in.
Jesus Christ, Gove’s getting some good shit. He’s off his tits.
I know Badenoch is unlikely to get through to the membership, but I’m worried she will by some fluke, and if she does the batshit crazy membership might just give it to her.
On a positive note, it would be great to see a black woman as PM.
That’s the only positive I can see. Well, maybe the other one would be to make the Tories unelectable. Nothing to do with her gender, or colour. Entirely to do with the fact that she’s absolutely fucking mental.
She’s the Tory id personified, right there before our eyes. Reduce the state to its bare essentials? I wonder what she sees as essential and what can be happily sacrificed as non-essential. You can guess, can’t you?
Johnson’s done his job for the Tories. The conventional wisdom is that he has used the party simply to achieve power. Perhaps with time we’ll come to think that it was the party that has used Johnson. An unconventional politician who appealed to Leavers across the traditional spectrum and got us out of the EU. Jettisoned when his magic started to fade along, perhaps, with any pretence of levelling up; the party can bin all the Brexit ‘benefits’ the Red Wall seem to think is their due, that Johnson is the hapless face of, and shamelessly return to cutting and slashing and reducing the services that mean so much to the Red Wallers.
Tragic, really, and completely amoral. But, hey, Tories gonna Tory.
As far as I can see, the problem with Kemi Badenoch is that her Ministerial experience is very limited; it largely relates to culture war type issues. I think she has made a good effort on this front, and I am personally supportive of her stance; but it hasn't made that much of an impact, the culture war for the tories is far from won; in fact they seem to be losing it despite being in government. It has actually got to the point where tory MP's put up posts on facebook asking constituents to write to them about it, because it just isn't that salient. People don't care. They should care, but they don't care.
I think Starmer's line is practical rather than anything else.
A formal readmission to SM either which would either be via EFTA or reaccession or, perhaps, Swiss trilateralism will take time.
Confirming closer SM alignment for goods that was never in reality torn down and getting easing of customs and equivalence requirements can start generating wins in the first few months, and does no harm to the possibilty of larger scale reversal further down the line.
Jesus Christ, Gove’s getting some good shit. He’s off his tits.
I know Badenoch is unlikely to get through to the membership, but I’m worried she will by some fluke, and if she does the batshit crazy membership might just give it to her.
On a positive note, it would be great to see a black woman as PM.
That’s the only positive I can see. Well, maybe the other one would be to make the Tories unelectable. Nothing to do with her gender, or colour. Entirely to do with the fact that she’s absolutely fucking mental.
She’s the Tory id personified, right there before our eyes. Reduce the state to its bare essentials? I wonder what she sees as essential and what can be happily sacrificed as non-essential. You can guess, can’t you?
Johnson’s done his job for the Tories. The conventional wisdom is that he has used the party simply to achieve power. Perhaps with time we’ll come to think that it was the party that has used Johnson. An unconventional politician who appealed to Leavers across the traditional spectrum and got us out of the EU. Jettisoned when his magic started to fade along, perhaps, with any pretence of levelling up; the party can bin all the Brexit ‘benefits’ the Red Wall seem to think is their due, that Johnson is the hapless face of, and shamelessly return to cutting and slashing and reducing the services that mean so much to the Red Wallers.
Tragic, really, and completely amoral. But, hey, Tories gonna Tory.
Yip.
The naïveté of Aaron Bell - and the other red wall tories who turned on Johnson is incredible. He was the best they were gonna get, policy-wise. They should have kept their head down, played the game and begged for pork. It was deeply unpleasant, but that was the game that had to be played.
I’ve never been a Johnson supporter, but called them out at the time - to universal derision on PB.
They’ve fked their constituents. And probably lost their seats.
Our Aaron turned on Johnson over the lying about parties in lockdown. iirc he had personal experience of missing a funeral or some such whilst Johnson was on the lash.
If the sample is from a population of GE2019 Labour voters, I do not find the 88% thinking Brexit was wrong in hindsight unsurprising. I can imagine that over 75% of GE2019 Labour voters voted remain in the first place. Many Labour-Leavers voted for BJ in order to "get brexit done".
If Starmer starts to undo Brexit then I may vote Labour. If he maintains his current stance then he (and Labour) can go to hell along with the Tories
Which is a particularly interesting point from a Scottish point of view. Not to mention NI.
NI is disenfranchised anyway. No one living there can vote for a GB party. All they have to choose from is ex-terrorists and religious nutters who can never form a government in their own right.
Is Penny ‘Morduant’ some insider joke for the cool kids that I’ve missed? It’s getting as fckn hilarious as Sir Kier.
She would be Britain's first Catholic PM although I don't think she's particularly religious.
Eh? That can't be right, whether Anglican Catholic or Roman Catholic. Mr Johnson waves a hand re his marriage in a RC church, and his signing up to that kirk.
Johnson and Blair are both still officially Anglicans I think, despite being married to Catholics.
If Starmer starts to undo Brexit then I may vote Labour. If he maintains his current stance then he (and Labour) can go to hell along with the Tories
Which is a particularly interesting point from a Scottish point of view. Not to mention NI.
NI is disenfranchised anyway. No one living there can vote for a GB party. All they have to choose from is ex-terrorists and religious nutters who can never form a government in their own right.
Hamish Badenoch (Mr Kemi) stood for the NI Conservatives in Foyle at the 2015 GE
Jesus Christ, Gove’s getting some good shit. He’s off his tits.
I know Badenoch is unlikely to get through to the membership, but I’m worried she will by some fluke, and if she does the batshit crazy membership might just give it to her.
On a positive note, it would be great to see a black woman as PM.
That’s the only positive I can see. Well, maybe the other one would be to make the Tories unelectable. Nothing to do with her gender, or colour. Entirely to do with the fact that she’s absolutely fucking mental.
She’s the Tory id personified, right there before our eyes. Reduce the state to its bare essentials? I wonder what she sees as essential and what can be happily sacrificed as non-essential. You can guess, can’t you?
Johnson’s done his job for the Tories. The conventional wisdom is that he has used the party simply to achieve power. Perhaps with time we’ll come to think that it was the party that has used Johnson. An unconventional politician who appealed to Leavers across the traditional spectrum and got us out of the EU. Jettisoned when his magic started to fade along, perhaps, with any pretence of levelling up; the party can bin all the Brexit ‘benefits’ the Red Wall seem to think is their due, that Johnson is the hapless face of, and shamelessly return to cutting and slashing and reducing the services that mean so much to the Red Wallers.
Tragic, really, and completely amoral. But, hey, Tories gonna Tory.
Yip.
The naïveté of Aaron Bell - and the other red wall tories who turned on Johnson is incredible. He was the best they were gonna get, policy-wise. They should have kept their head down, played the game and begged for pork. It was deeply unpleasant, but that was the game that had to be played.
I’ve never been a Johnson supporter, but called them out at the time - to universal derision on PB.
They’ve fked their constituents.
What a difference a year makes. Back then we laughed at you. Now the tables are turned and we are virtually defiling ourselves with derision. You think AB was ever going to be the difference between phatboi surviving and not? Seriously? Really Seriously? LOL, it was only ever about where AB was going to end up after the always inevitable debacle.
Your pork themed comments say a LOT about your morals and your intellect.
Is Penny ‘Morduant’ some insider joke for the cool kids that I’ve missed? It’s getting as fckn hilarious as Sir Kier.
She would be Britain's first Catholic PM although I don't think she's particularly religious.
Eh? That can't be right, whether Anglican Catholic or Roman Catholic. Mr Johnson waves a hand re his marriage in a RC church, and his signing up to that kirk.
Yes Johnson has already been our first Roman Catholic PM in office (Blair converted to Rome having left office). Tugendhat would be our second Roman Catholic PM in office, he is also part Jewish.
Saw a quote from the IFS saying these stupid tax cuts would require civil service pay cuts. If they do that, I’m off to the private sector again regardless of how good the working environment and job satisfaction is. I can afford a crappy, below inflation pay rise. I can’t afford stagnation or cuts, I have a mortgage to pay. And good luck finding a good design engineer to maintain that critical infrastructure.
Is Penny ‘Morduant’ some insider joke for the cool kids that I’ve missed? It’s getting as fckn hilarious as Sir Kier.
She would be Britain's first Catholic PM although I don't think she's particularly religious.
Eh? That can't be right, whether Anglican Catholic or Roman Catholic. Mr Johnson waves a hand re his marriage in a RC church, and his signing up to that kirk.
Yes Johnson has already been our first Roman Catholic PM in office (Blair converted to Rome having left office). Tugendhat would be our second Roman Catholic PM in office, he is also part Jewish.
Sunak would be our first Hindu PM too, Braverman the first Buddhist PM. Zahawi our first Muslim PM
Braverman would be the first Buddhist PM. Grant Shapps is Jewish.
If Starmer starts to undo Brexit then I may vote Labour. If he maintains his current stance then he (and Labour) can go to hell along with the Tories
Which is a particularly interesting point from a Scottish point of view. Not to mention NI.
NI is disenfranchised anyway. No one living there can vote for a GB party. All they have to choose from is ex-terrorists and religious nutters who can never form a government in their own right.
The SDLP, APNI and UUP are OK.
SDLP has 2 MPs, Alliance has 1 MP and UUP have none. They are not exactly in a position to form a majority at Westminster. All of them need another few hundred MPs
Is Penny ‘Morduant’ some insider joke for the cool kids that I’ve missed? It’s getting as fckn hilarious as Sir Kier.
She would be Britain's first Catholic PM although I don't think she's particularly religious.
Eh? That can't be right, whether Anglican Catholic or Roman Catholic. Mr Johnson waves a hand re his marriage in a RC church, and his signing up to that kirk.
Johnson and Blair are both still officially Anglicans I think, despite being married to Catholics.
Why do you think that? Mr J had to sign on the dotted line - IIRC also denying that he had been validly married before, if only by implication. Or am I missing something?
Which candidate will be the first to say the following, and how long before they all follow suit?
"I would cut taxes massively, increase spending massively, and improve every government service (with half the staff) before the next election, and take no nonsense from any court (foreign or domestic).
Why should Keir Starmer change his current stance on Brexit, when that stance is heavily backed by supporters of all the main parties?
i.e. Opinium VI poll 6th July 2022
Question: Regarding Brexit, earlier this week Keir Starmer said that Labour’s policy would be to “sort out the poor deal Boris Johnson signed” but he said that a Labour government would NOT take Britain back into the EU’s single market or customs union or return to “free movement” of people between the UK and the EU. Do you think he was right or wrong to say this?
Results: Right/Wrong to say this by current VI
All 51% right, 23% wrong Con 63% right, 18% wrong Lab 56% right, 25% wrong LD 45% right, 30% wrong
Yes. That's where I am. Was Brexit right or wrong? Wrong. I voted Remain, and haven't seen any reason why I ought to regret that. Do I want to waste another 5 years obsessing about it? No bloody way.
That puts Labour and Conservatives on the same page with the LibDems , SNP and Plaid the only pro EU parties
… and that suits us just fine! 😄
Intriguing to analyse the difference between how a group of voters who (narrowly) voted for an issue with a crap outcome feel about it versus a group of voters who voted against it and had it imposed on them anyway. If only there were examples to consider.
I think Starmer's line is practical rather than anything else.
A formal readmission to SM either which would either be via EFTA or reaccession or, perhaps, Swiss trilateralism will take time.
Confirming closer SM alignment for goods that was never in reality torn down and getting easing of customs and equivalence requirements can start generating wins in the first few months, and does no harm to the possibilty of larger scale reversal further down the line.
Jesus Christ, Gove’s getting some good shit. He’s off his tits.
I know Badenoch is unlikely to get through to the membership, but I’m worried she will by some fluke, and if she does the batshit crazy membership might just give it to her.
On a positive note, it would be great to see a black woman as PM.
That’s the only positive I can see. Well, maybe the other one would be to make the Tories unelectable. Nothing to do with her gender, or colour. Entirely to do with the fact that she’s absolutely fucking mental.
She’s the Tory id personified, right there before our eyes. Reduce the state to its bare essentials? I wonder what she sees as essential and what can be happily sacrificed as non-essential. You can guess, can’t you?
Johnson’s done his job for the Tories. The conventional wisdom is that he has used the party simply to achieve power. Perhaps with time we’ll come to think that it was the party that has used Johnson. An unconventional politician who appealed to Leavers across the traditional spectrum and got us out of the EU. Jettisoned when his magic started to fade along, perhaps, with any pretence of levelling up; the party can bin all the Brexit ‘benefits’ the Red Wall seem to think is their due, that Johnson is the hapless face of, and shamelessly return to cutting and slashing and reducing the services that mean so much to the Red Wallers.
Tragic, really, and completely amoral. But, hey, Tories gonna Tory.
As far as I can see, the problem with Kemi Badenoch is that her Ministerial experience is very limited; it largely relates to culture war type issues. I think she has made a good effort on this front, and I am personally supportive of her stance; but it hasn't made that much of an impact, the culture war for the tories is far from won; in fact they seem to be losing it despite being in government. It has actually got to the point where tory MP's put up posts on facebook asking constituents to write to them about it, because it just isn't that salient. People don't care. They should care, but they don't care.
Yes. Badenoch would be an outrageous gamble. Almost a Hail Mary. She's utterly unknown and completely untested.
Is Penny ‘Morduant’ some insider joke for the cool kids that I’ve missed? It’s getting as fckn hilarious as Sir Kier.
She would be Britain's first Catholic PM although I don't think she's particularly religious.
Eh? That can't be right, whether Anglican Catholic or Roman Catholic. Mr Johnson waves a hand re his marriage in a RC church, and his signing up to that kirk.
Johnson and Blair are both still officially Anglicans I think, despite being married to Catholics.
Jesus Christ, Gove’s getting some good shit. He’s off his tits.
I know Badenoch is unlikely to get through to the membership, but I’m worried she will by some fluke, and if she does the batshit crazy membership might just give it to her.
On a positive note, it would be great to see a black woman as PM.
That’s the only positive I can see. Well, maybe the other one would be to make the Tories unelectable. Nothing to do with her gender, or colour. Entirely to do with the fact that she’s absolutely fucking mental.
She’s the Tory id personified, right there before our eyes. Reduce the state to its bare essentials? I wonder what she sees as essential and what can be happily sacrificed as non-essential. You can guess, can’t you?
Johnson’s done his job for the Tories. The conventional wisdom is that he has used the party simply to achieve power. Perhaps with time we’ll come to think that it was the party that has used Johnson. An unconventional politician who appealed to Leavers across the traditional spectrum and got us out of the EU. Jettisoned when his magic started to fade along, perhaps, with any pretence of levelling up; the party can bin all the Brexit ‘benefits’ the Red Wall seem to think is their due, that Johnson is the hapless face of, and shamelessly return to cutting and slashing and reducing the services that mean so much to the Red Wallers.
Tragic, really, and completely amoral. But, hey, Tories gonna Tory.
As far as I can see, the problem with Kemi Badenoch is that her Ministerial experience is very limited; it largely relates to culture war type issues. I think she has made a good effort on this front, and I am personally supportive of her stance; but it hasn't made that much of an impact, the culture war for the tories is far from won; in fact they seem to be losing it despite being in government. It has actually got to the point where tory MP's put up posts on facebook asking constituents to write to them about it, because it just isn't that salient. People don't care. They should care, but they don't care.
Yes. Badenoch would be an outrageous gamble. Almost a Hail Mary. She's utterly unknown and completely untested.
Penny Mordaunt is favourite for the Scottish Tory vote
Another Scottish Tory source said this regime had been “very divisive” and that Mordaunt would be a “unifying candidate”.
An influential figure among grassroots Scottish Tories said they believed Mordaunt, who was the first female defence secretary, would be “very sellable in Scotland”.
It is understood that Douglas Ross, the Scottish Conservative leader, is waiting to see the contenders before backing a candidate.
Yesterday he predicted that the contest would provide a “very strong positive debate” about the future of the party and suggested there should be an overhaul of the UK government to remove Johnson loyalists.
… Liz Truss, the foreign secretary… was met with scorn from several Conservative MSPs, who believe she would be “disastrous” for the Scottish party in a similar vein to Johnson, whose approval ratings dropped to a record low of -71 in Scotland last month.
Is Penny ‘Morduant’ some insider joke for the cool kids that I’ve missed? It’s getting as fckn hilarious as Sir Kier.
She would be Britain's first Catholic PM although I don't think she's particularly religious.
Eh? That can't be right, whether Anglican Catholic or Roman Catholic. Mr Johnson waves a hand re his marriage in a RC church, and his signing up to that kirk.
Yes Johnson has already been our first Roman Catholic PM in office (Blair converted to Rome having left office). Tugendhat would be our second Roman Catholic PM in office, he is also part Jewish.
Sunak would be our first Hindu PM too, Braverman the first Buddhist PM. Zahawi our first Muslim PM
Braverman would be the first Buddhist PM. Grant Shapps is Jewish.
Disraeli was our first Jewish heritage PM of course
Penny Mordaunt is favourite for the Scottish Tory vote
Another Scottish Tory source said this regime had been “very divisive” and that Mordaunt would be a “unifying candidate”.
An influential figure among grassroots Scottish Tories said they believed Mordaunt, who was the first female defence secretary, would be “very sellable in Scotland”.
It is understood that Douglas Ross, the Scottish Conservative leader, is waiting to see the contenders before backing a candidate.
Yesterday he predicted that the contest would provide a “very strong positive debate” about the future of the party and suggested there should be an overhaul of the UK government to remove Johnson loyalists.
… Liz Truss, the foreign secretary… was met with scorn from several Conservative MSPs, who believe she would be “disastrous” for the Scottish party in a similar vein to Johnson, whose approval ratings dropped to a record low of -71 in Scotland last month.
(The Times; €)
Just pick any chimp at Edinburgh Zoo: there are 15 to choose from. Any would be more popular in Scotland than Mr J.
I think Starmer's line is practical rather than anything else.
A formal readmission to SM either which would either be via EFTA or reaccession or, perhaps, Swiss trilateralism will take time.
Confirming closer SM alignment for goods that was never in reality torn down and getting easing of customs and equivalence requirements can start generating wins in the first few months, and does no harm to the possibilty of larger scale reversal further down the line.
You don't envisage any divergence then?
We dare not diverge our standards from EU ones. We are in enough trouble as it is...
Jesus Christ, Gove’s getting some good shit. He’s off his tits.
I know Badenoch is unlikely to get through to the membership, but I’m worried she will by some fluke, and if she does the batshit crazy membership might just give it to her.
On a positive note, it would be great to see a black woman as PM.
That’s the only positive I can see. Well, maybe the other one would be to make the Tories unelectable. Nothing to do with her gender, or colour. Entirely to do with the fact that she’s absolutely fucking mental.
She’s the Tory id personified, right there before our eyes. Reduce the state to its bare essentials? I wonder what she sees as essential and what can be happily sacrificed as non-essential. You can guess, can’t you?
Johnson’s done his job for the Tories. The conventional wisdom is that he has used the party simply to achieve power. Perhaps with time we’ll come to think that it was the party that has used Johnson. An unconventional politician who appealed to Leavers across the traditional spectrum and got us out of the EU. Jettisoned when his magic started to fade along, perhaps, with any pretence of levelling up; the party can bin all the Brexit ‘benefits’ the Red Wall seem to think is their due, that Johnson is the hapless face of, and shamelessly return to cutting and slashing and reducing the services that mean so much to the Red Wallers.
Tragic, really, and completely amoral. But, hey, Tories gonna Tory.
As far as I can see, the problem with Kemi Badenoch is that her Ministerial experience is very limited; it largely relates to culture war type issues. I think she has made a good effort on this front, and I am personally supportive of her stance; but it hasn't made that much of an impact, the culture war for the tories is far from won; in fact they seem to be losing it despite being in government. It has actually got to the point where tory MP's put up posts on facebook asking constituents to write to them about it, because it just isn't that salient. People don't care. They should care, but they don't care.
Yes. Badenoch would be an outrageous gamble. Almost a Hail Mary. She's utterly unknown and completely untested.
In April 2018, The Mail on Sunday obtained a video of an interview that Badenoch did with Core Politics, where she confessed to hacking into the website of a Labour MP in 2008.[31][32] The MP in question was Harriet Harman, who was then Deputy Leader of the Labour Party. Harman accepted Badenoch's apology, but the matter was reported to Action Fraud, the UK's cyber crime reporting centre.[33][34]
and every single one wants a to fight the EU to impose a locally unpopular policy on a province they don't care about.
That's the real mystery. I wonder if they think their grassroots will deem it a surrender to the EU? Are Tory members interested in Ulster?
Wings over Scotland commissioned some polling years back which IIRC showed that Tories (I think voters) would rather have Brexit than NI. Which is some way to being fulfilled, given that NI is still in the EU and distinctly semi-detached ...
Aside from HYUFD, I don't think Tory voters (or anyone in England) cares strongly either way whether NI is in the UK. It is a foreign land of which we know little. Losing it isn't going to change the map of the country in any way we might notice. It costs us money and gives us no great advantage that we can see. And even the ones there who nominally want to remain attached seem constantly furious with us. We'll have them, while a majority want to stay with us, but I don't think there is any great emotional connection. Of course there is a greater commitment to Brexit than to NI. I suspect there is a greater commitment to a lot of issues than there is to NI. To pick an example out of thin air, I suspect if you told English people they would have to change the colour of their postboxes for the sake of the union with NI a solid majority would happily wave it goodbye. Scotland is different. For the English, we've mostly been to Scotland. There's an emotional connection even when there isn't a rational connection.
Is Penny ‘Morduant’ some insider joke for the cool kids that I’ve missed? It’s getting as fckn hilarious as Sir Kier.
She would be Britain's first Catholic PM although I don't think she's particularly religious.
Eh? That can't be right, whether Anglican Catholic or Roman Catholic. Mr Johnson waves a hand re his marriage in a RC church, and his signing up to that kirk.
Johnson and Blair are both still officially Anglicans I think, despite being married to Catholics.
They are cool with that. As long as the kids are brought up Catholic. I'm one. Boris has certainly spread the influence of the one true Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Penny Mordaunt is favourite for the Scottish Tory vote
Another Scottish Tory source said this regime had been “very divisive” and that Mordaunt would be a “unifying candidate”.
An influential figure among grassroots Scottish Tories said they believed Mordaunt, who was the first female defence secretary, would be “very sellable in Scotland”.
It is understood that Douglas Ross, the Scottish Conservative leader, is waiting to see the contenders before backing a candidate.
Yesterday he predicted that the contest would provide a “very strong positive debate” about the future of the party and suggested there should be an overhaul of the UK government to remove Johnson loyalists.
… Liz Truss, the foreign secretary… was met with scorn from several Conservative MSPs, who believe she would be “disastrous” for the Scottish party in a similar vein to Johnson, whose approval ratings dropped to a record low of -71 in Scotland last month.
(The Times; €)
Just pick any chimp at Edinburgh Zoo: there are 15 to choose from. Any would be more popular in Scotland than Mr J.
Even the filthy bastard who poos in his own palm and then eats it?
Jesus Christ, Gove’s getting some good shit. He’s off his tits.
I know Badenoch is unlikely to get through to the membership, but I’m worried she will by some fluke, and if she does the batshit crazy membership might just give it to her.
On a positive note, it would be great to see a black woman as PM.
That’s the only positive I can see. Well, maybe the other one would be to make the Tories unelectable. Nothing to do with her gender, or colour. Entirely to do with the fact that she’s absolutely fucking mental.
She’s the Tory id personified, right there before our eyes. Reduce the state to its bare essentials? I wonder what she sees as essential and what can be happily sacrificed as non-essential. You can guess, can’t you?
Johnson’s done his job for the Tories. The conventional wisdom is that he has used the party simply to achieve power. Perhaps with time we’ll come to think that it was the party that has used Johnson. An unconventional politician who appealed to Leavers across the traditional spectrum and got us out of the EU. Jettisoned when his magic started to fade along, perhaps, with any pretence of levelling up; the party can bin all the Brexit ‘benefits’ the Red Wall seem to think is their due, that Johnson is the hapless face of, and shamelessly return to cutting and slashing and reducing the services that mean so much to the Red Wallers.
Tragic, really, and completely amoral. But, hey, Tories gonna Tory.
As far as I can see, the problem with Kemi Badenoch is that her Ministerial experience is very limited; it largely relates to culture war type issues. I think she has made a good effort on this front, and I am personally supportive of her stance; but it hasn't made that much of an impact, the culture war for the tories is far from won; in fact they seem to be losing it despite being in government. It has actually got to the point where tory MP's put up posts on facebook asking constituents to write to them about it, because it just isn't that salient. People don't care. They should care, but they don't care.
Yes. Badenoch would be an outrageous gamble. Almost a Hail Mary. She's utterly unknown and completely untested.
In April 2018, The Mail on Sunday obtained a video of an interview that Badenoch did with Core Politics, where she confessed to hacking into the website of a Labour MP in 2008.[31][32] The MP in question was Harriet Harman, who was then Deputy Leader of the Labour Party. Harman accepted Badenoch's apology, but the matter was reported to Action Fraud, the UK's cyber crime reporting centre.[33][34]
Penny Mordaunt is favourite for the Scottish Tory vote
Another Scottish Tory source said this regime had been “very divisive” and that Mordaunt would be a “unifying candidate”.
An influential figure among grassroots Scottish Tories said they believed Mordaunt, who was the first female defence secretary, would be “very sellable in Scotland”.
It is understood that Douglas Ross, the Scottish Conservative leader, is waiting to see the contenders before backing a candidate.
Yesterday he predicted that the contest would provide a “very strong positive debate” about the future of the party and suggested there should be an overhaul of the UK government to remove Johnson loyalists.
… Liz Truss, the foreign secretary… was met with scorn from several Conservative MSPs, who believe she would be “disastrous” for the Scottish party in a similar vein to Johnson, whose approval ratings dropped to a record low of -71 in Scotland last month.
(The Times; €)
Just pick any chimp at Edinburgh Zoo: there are 15 to choose from. Any would be more popular in Scotland than Mr J.
Even the filthy bastard who poos in his own palm and then eats it?
If Starmer starts to undo Brexit then I may vote Labour. If he maintains his current stance then he (and Labour) can go to hell along with the Tories
Which is a particularly interesting point from a Scottish point of view. Not to mention NI.
NI is disenfranchised anyway. No one living there can vote for a GB party. All they have to choose from is ex-terrorists and religious nutters who can never form a government in their own right.
The SDLP, APNI and UUP are OK.
SDLP has 2 MPs, Alliance has 1 MP and UUP have none. They are not exactly in a position to form a majority at Westminster. All of them need another few hundred MPs
The people of NI have deliberately picked the extremists. Because the U.K. government and the Dublin government listened to the extremists concerns, and gave them concessions. The UUP and SDLP were told to sit at the back of the room and not make too much noise. Alliance was ignored completely.
I’m standing to be the next leader of the Conservative Party and your Prime Minister. For me it’s about aspirational conservatism, fresh ideas, fresh team for a fresh start taking our great country forward. (Full video on my Facebook page)."
and every single one wants a to fight the EU to impose a locally unpopular policy on a province they don't care about.
That's the real mystery. I wonder if they think their grassroots will deem it a surrender to the EU? Are Tory members interested in Ulster?
Wings over Scotland commissioned some polling years back which IIRC showed that Tories (I think voters) would rather have Brexit than NI. Which is some way to being fulfilled, given that NI is still in the EU and distinctly semi-detached ...
Aside from HYUFD, I don't think Tory voters (or anyone in England) cares strongly either way whether NI is in the UK. It is a foreign land of which we know little. Losing it isn't going to change the map of the country in any way we might notice. It costs us money and gives us no great advantage that we can see. And even the ones there who nominally want to remain attached seem constantly furious with us. We'll have them, while a majority want to stay with us, but I don't think there is any great emotional connection. Of course there is a greater commitment to Brexit than to NI. I suspect there is a greater commitment to a lot of issues than there is to NI. To pick an example out of thin air, I suspect if you told English people they would have to change the colour of their postboxes for the sake of the union with NI a solid majority would happily wave it goodbye. Scotland is different. For the English, we've mostly been to Scotland. There's an emotional connection even when there isn't a rational connection.
That is not true, 49% of Tory voters would be upset if NI left the UK just 8% pleased.
If Starmer starts to undo Brexit then I may vote Labour. If he maintains his current stance then he (and Labour) can go to hell along with the Tories
Which is a particularly interesting point from a Scottish point of view. Not to mention NI.
NI is disenfranchised anyway. No one living there can vote for a GB party. All they have to choose from is ex-terrorists and religious nutters who can never form a government in their own right.
The SDLP, APNI and UUP are OK.
SDLP has 2 MPs, Alliance has 1 MP and UUP have none. They are not exactly in a position to form a majority at Westminster. All of them need another few hundred MPs
I was just pointing out they are NOT lapsed terrorists or religious nutters.
Comments
Unlike honesty in the Tory party which appears to come last these days if mentioned at all
In Liz we Truss!
It's unfunded tax cuts to pay for themselves as foretold. And continuity Boris policies.
Will it win them another five years, as they once again run against the previous regime, blaming it for all travails?
Probably.
And that's the most depressing of all.
Short hand for unicorns on stilts.
You need to understand how important it is to shovel more money into the banks and houses belong to the 70+ year olds that comprise the Tory core vote.
I know Badenoch is unlikely to get through to the membership, but I’m worried she will by some fluke, and if she does the batshit crazy membership might just give it to her.
On a positive note, it would be great to see a black woman as PM.
That’s the only positive I can see. Well, maybe the other one would be to make the Tories unelectable. Nothing to do with her gender, or colour. Entirely to do with the fact that she’s absolutely fucking mental.
She’s the Tory id personified, right there before our eyes. Reduce the state to its bare essentials? I wonder what she sees as essential and what can be happily sacrificed as non-essential. You can guess, can’t you?
Johnson’s done his job for the Tories. The conventional wisdom is that he has used the party simply to achieve power. Perhaps with time we’ll come to think that it was the party that has used Johnson. An unconventional politician who appealed to Leavers across the traditional spectrum and got us out of the EU. Jettisoned when his magic started to fade along,
perhaps, with any pretence of levelling up; the party can bin all the Brexit ‘benefits’ the Red Wall seem to think is their due, that Johnson is the hapless face of, and shamelessly return to cutting and slashing and reducing the services that mean so much to the Red Wallers.
Tragic, really, and completely amoral. But, hey, Tories gonna Tory.
i.e. Opinium VI poll 6th July 2022
Question: Regarding Brexit, earlier this week Keir Starmer said that Labour’s policy would be to “sort out the poor deal Boris Johnson signed” but he said that a Labour government would NOT take Britain back into the EU’s single market or customs union or return to “free movement” of people between the UK and the EU. Do you think he was right or wrong to say this?
Results: Right/Wrong to say this by current VI
All 51% right, 23% wrong
Con 63% right, 18% wrong
Lab 56% right, 25% wrong
LD 45% right, 30% wrong
https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/08/30/towards-a-rational-immigration-policy/
It only raises £200billion - we can save that by sacking civil servants and introducing departmental cost cutting efficiencies.
Without winning back those redwall seats from the Tories Labour has zero chance of depriving the Tories of their majority and Starmer has zero chance of becoming PM.
https://twitter.com/thom_brooks/status/1546148929229692930?s=20&t=6s-mAMl327v6ChyfYsFZWA
Plus as Redfield showed earlier this month, 47% still want to stay out of the EU not rejoin
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1543321577181380609?s=20&t=zLWAsBhWuG8ZGqspbblFRg
Was Brexit right or wrong? Wrong. I voted Remain, and haven't seen any reason why I ought to regret that.
Do I want to waste another 5 years obsessing about it?
No bloody way.
And what about De Pfeffel?
The naïveté of Aaron Bell - and the other red wall tories who turned on Johnson is incredible. He was the best they were gonna get, policy-wise. They should have kept their head down, played the game and begged for pork. It was deeply undignified, but that was the game that had to be played.
I’ve never been a Johnson supporter, but called them out at the time - to universal derision on PB.
They’ve fked their constituents. And probably lost their seats.
I think she's manoeuvering to stay in post.
I always get the impression she's actually self-aware. She knows she can't win.
But she can strongly influence others with her words. Look at the bounce Gove's just given.
Sunak would be our first Hindu PM too, Braverman the first Buddhist PM. Zahawi our first Muslim PM
An Uber Loyalist with no one to be slavishly loyal to anymore.
Be interested to hear him.
Edit: tbf there are Alliance and the Greens.
Not that he is going to last well in power, even if he scrapes in.
https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1546140955681558529
A formal readmission to SM either which would either be via EFTA or reaccession or, perhaps, Swiss trilateralism will take time.
Confirming closer SM alignment for goods that was never in reality torn down and getting easing of customs and equivalence requirements can start generating wins in the first few months, and does no harm to the possibilty of larger scale reversal further down the line.
Some things are are above the pork barrel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foyle_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2010s
ETA 132 votes, 0.4%
Your pork themed comments say a LOT about your morals and your intellect.
Why were constitutional experts and senior Tories worried about Boris trashing the constitution (as reported today) if there wasn't any issue.
"I would cut taxes massively, increase spending massively, and improve every government service (with half the staff) before the next election, and take no nonsense from any court (foreign or domestic).
Almost a Hail Mary.
She's utterly unknown and completely untested.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/dec/22/labour.uk
Johnson was baptised Roman Catholic and rejoined the Catholic Church to be married at Westminster Cathedral.
Of the main Tory leadership candidates only Jeremy Hunt is Church of England, Badenoch is Christian but undefined denomination, likely Pentecostal
Do you live in the top 150 Labour target seats needed for a Labour majority? If not again Starmer is not really interested in your views
Another Scottish Tory source said this regime had been “very divisive” and that Mordaunt would be a “unifying candidate”.
An influential figure among grassroots Scottish Tories said they believed Mordaunt, who was the first female defence secretary, would be “very sellable in Scotland”.
It is understood that Douglas Ross, the Scottish Conservative leader, is waiting to see the contenders before backing a candidate.
Yesterday he predicted that the contest would provide a “very strong positive debate” about the future of the party and suggested there should be an overhaul of the UK government to remove Johnson loyalists.
… Liz Truss, the foreign secretary… was met with scorn from several Conservative MSPs, who believe she would be “disastrous” for the Scottish party in a similar vein to Johnson, whose approval ratings dropped to a record low of -71 in Scotland last month.
(The Times; €)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemi_Badenoch
Scotland is different. For the English, we've mostly been to Scotland. There's an emotional connection even when there isn't a rational connection.
I'm one.
Boris has certainly spread the influence of the one true Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
irrelevant to Starmer
This has now overtaken Tory 2019 campaign as the most candidates ever for a UK major party leadership election.
@Rehman_Chishti
I’m standing to be the next leader of the Conservative Party and your Prime Minister. For me it’s about aspirational conservatism, fresh ideas, fresh team for a fresh start taking our great country forward. (Full video on my Facebook page)."
https://twitter.com/Rehman_Chishti/status/1546240922043695107
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/09/07/how-do-english-and-welsh-people-feel-about-scotlan
Brexit has already been delivered