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Starmer moves to a 30% approval lead over Johnson – politicalbetting.com

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  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Andy_JS said:

    Chris said:

    In every culture in decline the watchful ones among the slaves know all that is genuine will be scorned and conned and cast away.

    Which culture is in decline? Russian is the obvious one.
    Clue in the previous words

    Land of snap decisions
    Land of short attention spans
    Nothing is savored
    Long enough to really understand
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,899
    edited July 2022
    Scott_xP said:
    On Betfair, Boris out in 2022 has come in from 11/8 to 11/10 in the last half hour or so.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited July 2022
    Deckchair on the titanic poll
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 41% (-)
    CON: 32% (-2)
    LDEM: 11% (+1)
    GRN: 3% (-2)

    via @SavantaComRes, 01 - 03 Jul
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jun
    https://t.co/5ksWvd9Km0

    LabLDGr down to 55 however
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Debating whether to attend local festival this year. Headliners Kula Shaker which is not great.

    Fun fact, radiohead had a debate about what to label the tapes for their 7th album which would make it least likely that anyone would play them if they were lost/stolen and decided on "Kula Shaker demo."

    That is slim pickings. I saw the Stones on Sunday and I suspect subsequent concerts and festivals may struggle to match it.
    They were way past it when I saw them in 1990
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    dixiedean said:

    Is this the one? Finally?

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    24m
    Just to repeat. We’ve been told Pincher was vetted at the time of his appointment. That vetting will have uncovered the 2019 incident, which was officially recorded. And that will then have been reported back to the Prime Minister. There is no way round this for Boris or No.10.

    Probably not.
    True.

    But I think this morning'e events have absolutely guaranteed Johnson will not be leader for next GE.

    I hope to God that you are right.
    Tory MPs knew all the flaws in his character when they chose him. To dump him now shreds their credibility & judgment, even as it's the only way to maintain any integrity.

    An exquisite dilemma they're in, though few seem to realise it let alone appear capable of resolving it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    dixiedean said:

    MattW said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Incidentally - in the vain hope that anyone other than myself is interested in gardening - the Hampton Court Show was ok but a bit underpowered by comparison to previous years. The same for Chelsea. I think such events have not recovered to their pre-Covid oomph yet. Or maybe exhibitors and others don't think they are value for money.

    Some of the gardens - even by well-known designers - were really poor, frankly.

    I am seeing an awful lot of adverts for the Royal Horticultural Society "we speak plant" which is possibly a result of your (and others') gardening posts on pb.
    Hmm.

    I'm getting some Black Butte blackberries this year from my new plant bought last year, and a small but fair crop of bluberries at last.

    Need to buy some industrial size containers - likely 18" deep x 18" diameter for transplanting.
    (Interesting - plant pots are imperial.)

    But tomatoes seem all over the place. My trailing tomatoes have gone beserk, but apparently down in Kent it is disastrous.

    More tomato plants than anyone knows what to do with up here.
    Friend has resorted to giving them away free.
    If you have some trailing tomatoes I will take them off your hands. Seriously.

  • Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is this the one? Finally?

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    24m
    Just to repeat. We’ve been told Pincher was vetted at the time of his appointment. That vetting will have uncovered the 2019 incident, which was officially recorded. And that will then have been reported back to the Prime Minister. There is no way round this for Boris or No.10.

    Probably not.
    True.

    But I think this morning'e events have absolutely guaranteed Johnson will not be leader for next GE.

    I hope to God that you are right.
    Tory MPs knew all the flaws in his character when they chose him. To dump him now shreds their credibility & judgment, even as it's the only way to maintain any integrity.

    An exquisite dilemma they're in, though few seem to realise it let alone appear capable of resolving it.
    When in a hole, stop digging.

    To dump him now would be sound judgement. He was the right man for the job three years ago, but that job is done and he isn't right anymore. He absolutely needs to go.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Report in the Guardian just now:
    "Michael Ellis, the Cabinet Office minister, replies (to Angela Rayner). He says the UK is fortunate to have mechanisms in place for upholding standards in public life."

    You couldn't, could you, make it up!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Nigelb said:

    The US version of the Finnish heat storage system.https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/nrel-options-a-modular-cost-effective-build-anywhere-particle-thermal-energy-storage-technology.html

    This is genuinely interesting - particularly for a country like Scotland (or its Scandinavian neighbours), which has the potential for a large year round surplus of renewable energy generation, and a big demand for heating in the winter months, most of which is currently provided by burning gas.

    The Finnish system seems to work much better for hot water than for converting back to electricity, which makes me wonder, would it be theoretically possible to design a modular system that could be small enough and efficient enough to replace boilers - instead of heat pumps?

    Or would it always need to be big enough that it could only work for eg industry or large scale distribution?
    I suspect there is a major benefit in increasing volume to reduce the surrounding (and so cooling) surface area...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    MattW said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Incidentally - in the vain hope that anyone other than myself is interested in gardening - the Hampton Court Show was ok but a bit underpowered by comparison to previous years. The same for Chelsea. I think such events have not recovered to their pre-Covid oomph yet. Or maybe exhibitors and others don't think they are value for money.

    Some of the gardens - even by well-known designers - were really poor, frankly.

    I am seeing an awful lot of adverts for the Royal Horticultural Society "we speak plant" which is possibly a result of your (and others') gardening posts on pb.
    Hmm.

    I'm getting some Black Butte blackberries this year from my new plant bought last year, and a small but fair crop of bluberries at last.

    Need to buy some industrial size containers - likely 18" deep x 18" diameter for transplanting.
    (Interesting - plant pots are imperial.)

    But tomatoes seem all over the place. My trailing tomatoes have gone beserk, but apparently down in Kent it is disastrous.

    More tomato plants than anyone knows what to do with up here.
    Friend has resorted to giving them away free.
    If you have some trailing tomatoes I will take them off your hands. Seriously.

    They aren't mine. Was merely talking with someone I know the other day about this.
    Sadly. I don't think I have his contact details to hand.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Debating whether to attend local festival this year. Headliners Kula Shaker which is not great.

    Fun fact, radiohead had a debate about what to label the tapes for their 7th album which would make it least likely that anyone would play them if they were lost/stolen and decided on "Kula Shaker demo."

    That is slim pickings. I saw the Stones on Sunday and I suspect subsequent concerts and festivals may struggle to match it.
    They were way past it when I saw them in 1990
    That kind of thinking is why I hadn't seen them before. I passed up the opportunity to see them in 1991 and many times since, despite being a Stones super fan, because I felt like if I hadn't seen them at the Marquee Club or the Altamont Speedway then there was no point.
    But you know what, they were absolutely brilliant. No doubt assisted by stellar musicians alongside them and very strong production values, plus a near perfect set list. But a genuinely brilliant performance. I am so glad I went.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is this the one? Finally?

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    24m
    Just to repeat. We’ve been told Pincher was vetted at the time of his appointment. That vetting will have uncovered the 2019 incident, which was officially recorded. And that will then have been reported back to the Prime Minister. There is no way round this for Boris or No.10.

    Probably not.
    True.

    But I think this morning'e events have absolutely guaranteed Johnson will not be leader for next GE.

    I hope to God that you are right.
    Tory MPs knew all the flaws in his character when they chose him. To dump him now shreds their credibility & judgment, even as it's the only way to maintain any integrity.

    An exquisite dilemma they're in, though few seem to realise it let alone appear capable of resolving it.
    When in a hole, stop digging.

    To dump him now would be sound judgement. He was the right man for the job three years ago, but that job is done and he isn't right anymore. He absolutely needs to go.
    I'm not sure BJ got any job done (apart from winning the GE 2019) there is nothing he can claim policy-wise to have really completed.... The NI Protocol is an absolute running sore
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    Report in the Guardian just now:
    "Michael Ellis, the Cabinet Office minister, replies (to Angela Rayner). He says the UK is fortunate to have mechanisms in place for upholding standards in public life."

    You couldn't, could you, make it up!

    He was doing a decent job blocking in the face of open laughter tbf.
    Unfortunately. 5 Live has gone to Wimbledon now.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Debating whether to attend local festival this year. Headliners Kula Shaker which is not great.

    Fun fact, radiohead had a debate about what to label the tapes for their 7th album which would make it least likely that anyone would play them if they were lost/stolen and decided on "Kula Shaker demo."

    That is slim pickings. I saw the Stones on Sunday and I suspect subsequent concerts and festivals may struggle to match it.
    They were way past it when I saw them in 1990
    That kind of thinking is why I hadn't seen them before. I passed up the opportunity to see them in 1991 and many times since, despite being a Stones super fan, because I felt like if I hadn't seen them at the Marquee Club or the Altamont Speedway then there was no point.
    But you know what, they were absolutely brilliant. No doubt assisted by stellar musicians alongside them and very strong production values, plus a near perfect set list. But a genuinely brilliant performance. I am so glad I went.
    Altamont was one to avoid.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    The PM "forgot" about the allegations apparently.
  • Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is this the one? Finally?

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    24m
    Just to repeat. We’ve been told Pincher was vetted at the time of his appointment. That vetting will have uncovered the 2019 incident, which was officially recorded. And that will then have been reported back to the Prime Minister. There is no way round this for Boris or No.10.

    Probably not.
    True.

    But I think this morning'e events have absolutely guaranteed Johnson will not be leader for next GE.

    I hope to God that you are right.
    Tory MPs knew all the flaws in his character when they chose him. To dump him now shreds their credibility & judgment, even as it's the only way to maintain any integrity.

    An exquisite dilemma they're in, though few seem to realise it let alone appear capable of resolving it.
    When in a hole, stop digging.

    To dump him now would be sound judgement. He was the right man for the job three years ago, but that job is done and he isn't right anymore. He absolutely needs to go.
    I'm not sure BJ got any job done (apart from winning the GE 2019) there is nothing he can claim policy-wise to have really completed.... The NI Protocol is an absolute running sore
    Brexit is done, we are out of the EU and out of the Article 50 quagmire. We aren't having to extend Article 50 every three months anymore. NI may be a sore to deal with post-Brexit, but Brexit itself is done and we are out of Article 50.

    The covid vaccine rollout was also done, and so was a lot of support for Ukraine even pre-war which allowed them to survive the initial onslaught as well as the subsequent support now.

    That's three very big ticks in his column, but its not about balancing pros and cons, if you commit gross misconduct you need to go, no ifs or buts.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    Roger said:

    So what is it's function other than to service those like myself who use and produce images? It's clearly not 'art' any more than Pink Floys liquid light shows were. That you can sit by a machine and instruct it yourself without the guidance of an operator could be labour saving but so what? Everything gets faster and more sophisticated all the time but the goal is still to produce a usable image that serves your purpose and that's not changed

    I suppose it could be useful for home made film makers but it's not exactly answering a need. Over the last thirty years techniques in image making have become much simpler and faster. Starting with simple morphing to complex CGI work. The biggest demand from the designer/director is not being overwhelmed with choice. It's having the vision to know what they want

    Art is a very narrow view of the application of such transformers, even though that's the one people are focusing on at the moment. Building transformers that can map between domains effectively has a lot of applications. It can potentially eliminate a lot of human effort where an expert, or someone with some training, interprets what information in one domain means and then records that meaning in another domain, and in particular when they synthesize/create something in a different domain.

    So whilst Art is an example, it's really only a starting point. You can have transformers that translate languages, transformers that describe the content of video, transformers that interpret medical information, or financial information. So taking the deluge of information in different forms in a multitude of domains and automagically converting them into information in a new domain, without any human in the loop thinking "what does this mean?"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    Guess Hari and team are spending a long time concocting another contorted pack of bollocks before briefing the press.

    Surely Coffey has the guts and integrity to walk at least. She seems a decent enough person and sensible minister - likely to be retained in a new Cabinet.

    Despite all of the other false dawns, I have to question if this is *it*. We have had so many lies spread by cabinet ministers, and yet this one is spectacular.

    As others have pointed out, this is the Perfect Storm. BloJo directly appoints someone he *knows* to be a menace. "Pincher by Nature" etc. Then we have got the PM himself directly lying to ministers as senior as the DPM, sending them off to tell lies as the official government position.

    This isn't something that can be obfuscated by smoke or claims of bias. How does the No10 Press Office possibly function now? With direct proof that they are knowing lying to their own ministers?
    Also someone leaked that Carrie herself had queried this bloke some time ago.

    If Carrie's allies are leaking - what else is to come?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    Jonny Bairstow's last five innings: 136 (92), 162 (157), 71* (44), 106 (140), 114* (145)

    589 runs from 578 balls at an average of 196

    https://twitter.com/willis_macp/status/1544277649383628800?t=2c4Io3ZXO_EvhBL3tEh9gw&s=19

    Jeez. Didn't realise his 4 in 5 innings was besmirched by a mere 71 not out.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    30s
    What does Michael Ellis think he’s doing. Keeps talking about due process. Due process was followed in 2019. Pincher was found guilty of the accusations. And Boris was told. He appointed him anyway. These facts aren’t in dispute.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "Voters deserve better than Chris Pincher
    He is merely a symptom of our failing system
    BY MICHAEL CRICK"

    https://unherd.com/2022/07/why-our-politicians-are-so-rotten/
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Debating whether to attend local festival this year. Headliners Kula Shaker which is not great.

    Fun fact, radiohead had a debate about what to label the tapes for their 7th album which would make it least likely that anyone would play them if they were lost/stolen and decided on "Kula Shaker demo."

    That is slim pickings. I saw the Stones on Sunday and I suspect subsequent concerts and festivals may struggle to match it.
    They were way past it when I saw them in 1990
    That kind of thinking is why I hadn't seen them before. I passed up the opportunity to see them in 1991 and many times since, despite being a Stones super fan, because I felt like if I hadn't seen them at the Marquee Club or the Altamont Speedway then there was no point.
    But you know what, they were absolutely brilliant. No doubt assisted by stellar musicians alongside them and very strong production values, plus a near perfect set list. But a genuinely brilliant performance. I am so glad I went.
    Altamont was one to avoid.
    Well statistically your chance of getting stabbed by a Hells Angel was quite small. And you could tell your kids and grandkids that you were there the day the sixties died.
    My aunt was at the free concert in Hyde Park in 69.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    dixiedean said:

    Jonny Bairstow's last five innings: 136 (92), 162 (157), 71* (44), 106 (140), 114* (145)

    589 runs from 578 balls at an average of 196

    https://twitter.com/willis_macp/status/1544277649383628800?t=2c4Io3ZXO_EvhBL3tEh9gw&s=19

    Jeez. Didn't realise his 4 in 5 innings was besmirched by a mere 71 not out.
    71* from 44 balls. Waster.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    How much more could they have chased? 400+ seems plausible. Its reframing the targets that can be set. The old equation of 300 in a day is out of date.

    The world record is 418. This side looks like they fancy breaking that record - if any team is good enough to set them a target that high.

    Has any team won four matches in a row batting last before? Seems unlikely.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited July 2022

    Nigelb said:

    The US version of the Finnish heat storage system.https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/nrel-options-a-modular-cost-effective-build-anywhere-particle-thermal-energy-storage-technology.html

    This is genuinely interesting - particularly for a country like Scotland (or its Scandinavian neighbours), which has the potential for a large year round surplus of renewable energy generation, and a big demand for heating in the winter months, most of which is currently provided by burning gas.

    The Finnish system seems to work much better for hot water than for converting back to electricity, which makes me wonder, would it be theoretically possible to design a modular system that could be small enough and efficient enough to replace boilers - instead of heat pumps?

    Or would it always need to be big enough that it could only work for eg industry or large scale distribution?
    That applies to both, I think.
    It ought to be scalable both ways, but I seriously doubt at the individual house level. Large apartment buildings, possibly.

    And you'd need a dedicated renewable supply at good marginal per kWh rate to make it economical, which again means a commercial rather than domestic supply contract.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Bone says voters don't care because Brexit got done.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Debating whether to attend local festival this year. Headliners Kula Shaker which is not great.

    Fun fact, radiohead had a debate about what to label the tapes for their 7th album which would make it least likely that anyone would play them if they were lost/stolen and decided on "Kula Shaker demo."

    That is slim pickings. I saw the Stones on Sunday and I suspect subsequent concerts and festivals may struggle to match it.
    They were way past it when I saw them in 1990
    That kind of thinking is why I hadn't seen them before. I passed up the opportunity to see them in 1991 and many times since, despite being a Stones super fan, because I felt like if I hadn't seen them at the Marquee Club or the Altamont Speedway then there was no point.
    But you know what, they were absolutely brilliant. No doubt assisted by stellar musicians alongside them and very strong production values, plus a near perfect set list. But a genuinely brilliant performance. I am so glad I went.
    Altamont was one to avoid.
    Well statistically your chance of getting stabbed by a Hells Angel was quite small. And you could tell your kids and grandkids that you were there the day the sixties died.
    My aunt was at the free concert in Hyde Park in 69.
    My chance was nil, for a depressing reason.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    Mr. Borough, for some voters, that's true.

    But not nearly enough.

    Having fanatically pro- or anti-EU voters locked in is insignificant compared to those between those two extremes.
  • Simon_PeachSimon_Peach Posts: 424
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Debating whether to attend local festival this year. Headliners Kula Shaker which is not great.

    Fun fact, radiohead had a debate about what to label the tapes for their 7th album which would make it least likely that anyone would play them if they were lost/stolen and decided on "Kula Shaker demo."

    That is slim pickings. I saw the Stones on Sunday and I suspect subsequent concerts and festivals may struggle to match it.
    They were way past it when I saw them in 1990
    They were tottering when I saw them at Knebworth in 1976… though they had the disadvantage of coming on after Lynyrd Skynyrd had flattened most of Hertfordshire…
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Guess Hari and team are spending a long time concocting another contorted pack of bollocks before briefing the press.

    Surely Coffey has the guts and integrity to walk at least. She seems a decent enough person and sensible minister - likely to be retained in a new Cabinet.

    Despite all of the other false dawns, I have to question if this is *it*. We have had so many lies spread by cabinet ministers, and yet this one is spectacular.

    As others have pointed out, this is the Perfect Storm. BloJo directly appoints someone he *knows* to be a menace. "Pincher by Nature" etc. Then we have got the PM himself directly lying to ministers as senior as the DPM, sending them off to tell lies as the official government position.

    This isn't something that can be obfuscated by smoke or claims of bias. How does the No10 Press Office possibly function now? With direct proof that they are knowing lying to their own ministers?
    Also someone leaked that Carrie herself had queried this bloke some time ago.

    If Carrie's allies are leaking - what else is to come?
    That there are “Carrie’s allies” in the first place, is a massive part of the problem.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Hari's bollocks excuse turns out to be (after two hours of press conf delay) - that Johnson "forgot"

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    ·
    2m
    BREAKING: Downing Street suggests that Boris Johnson *forgot* on Friday that he’d been told about FCO sex pest complaint about Chris Pincher.

    PM’s official spokesman defends No 10 changing story saying that “some of the facts around this have taken some time to establish”.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    The idiot Bone remains loyal to the liar.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    That's quite the excuse.

    Not so much thin as contemptible both in the offering and the insult to anyone with a brain that hears it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,045

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is this the one? Finally?

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    24m
    Just to repeat. We’ve been told Pincher was vetted at the time of his appointment. That vetting will have uncovered the 2019 incident, which was officially recorded. And that will then have been reported back to the Prime Minister. There is no way round this for Boris or No.10.

    Probably not.
    True.

    But I think this morning'e events have absolutely guaranteed Johnson will not be leader for next GE.

    I hope to God that you are right.
    Tory MPs knew all the flaws in his character when they chose him. To dump him now shreds their credibility & judgment, even as it's the only way to maintain any integrity.

    An exquisite dilemma they're in, though few seem to realise it let alone appear capable of resolving it.
    When in a hole, stop digging.

    To dump him now would be sound judgement. He was the right man for the job three years ago, but that job is done and he isn't right anymore. He absolutely needs to go.
    My plea is just make it go away and kick Johnson out

    This is demeaning, shameful and difficult to witness

    Those cabinet ministers excusing this should be ashamed and time for the decent ones to resign
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    Mr. Borough, for some voters, that's true.

    But not nearly enough.

    Having fanatically pro- or anti-EU voters locked in is insignificant compared to those between those two extremes.

    Bone and his fellow tories cannot seem to grasp that it wasn't Johnson that got brexit done, it was the voters.


  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    If hes not removed by PMQs then nobody in the cabinet can take over without taint
    Its Baker, Tugonmyhat, Mordaunt or Hunt
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited July 2022

    How much more could they have chased? 400+ seems plausible. Its reframing the targets that can be set. The old equation of 300 in a day is out of date.

    The world record is 418. This side looks like they fancy breaking that record - if any team is good enough to set them a target that high.

    Has any team won four matches in a row batting last before? Seems unlikely.
    Four in a row including chasing small numbers quite probably.

    This team have chased four in a row over 250. That is unprecedented I believe? In fact I think they said that three in a row chasing that was unprecedented, let alone four and the fourth with an even bigger target.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Isn't the election for posts in the new '22 this week?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    MISTY said:

    Isn't the election for posts in the new '22 this week?

    Tomorrow week, I believe.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    Mr. Dyed, it can't be Baker. I haven't backed him.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,267
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    The US version of the Finnish heat storage system.https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/nrel-options-a-modular-cost-effective-build-anywhere-particle-thermal-energy-storage-technology.html

    This is genuinely interesting - particularly for a country like Scotland (or its Scandinavian neighbours), which has the potential for a large year round surplus of renewable energy generation, and a big demand for heating in the winter months, most of which is currently provided by burning gas.

    The Finnish system seems to work much better for hot water than for converting back to electricity, which makes me wonder, would it be theoretically possible to design a modular system that could be small enough and efficient enough to replace boilers - instead of heat pumps?

    Or would it always need to be big enough that it could only work for eg industry or large scale distribution?
    I suspect there is a major benefit in increasing volume to reduce the surrounding (and so cooling) surface area...
    My other thought is the about the sand. Red hot sand would be fun to move through machinery. Or are they talking about just dropping it into water to generate steam? - but still need a recovery process....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Guess Hari and team are spending a long time concocting another contorted pack of bollocks before briefing the press.

    Surely Coffey has the guts and integrity to walk at least. She seems a decent enough person and sensible minister - likely to be retained in a new Cabinet.

    Despite all of the other false dawns, I have to question if this is *it*. We have had so many lies spread by cabinet ministers, and yet this one is spectacular.

    As others have pointed out, this is the Perfect Storm. BloJo directly appoints someone he *knows* to be a menace. "Pincher by Nature" etc. Then we have got the PM himself directly lying to ministers as senior as the DPM, sending them off to tell lies as the official government position.

    This isn't something that can be obfuscated by smoke or claims of bias. How does the No10 Press Office possibly function now? With direct proof that they are knowing lying to their own ministers?
    Technically, it's not a lie if he really did forget. Mens rea and all that. Though not *checking* on such a critical matter is also culpable. Which is more likely, i wonder?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    If hes not removed by PMQs then nobody in the cabinet can take over without taint
    Its Baker, Tugonmyhat, Mordaunt or Hunt

    I love the sound of the name Tugendhat, sounds very EU council of ministery...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Apparantly letters flying in despite it being at this stage pointless. Could mean a rule change precipitates an immediate vote however
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited July 2022
    MISTY said:

    Mr. Borough, for some voters, that's true.

    But not nearly enough.

    Having fanatically pro- or anti-EU voters locked in is insignificant compared to those between those two extremes.

    Bone and his fellow tories cannot seem to grasp that it wasn't Johnson that got brexit done, it was the voters.


    After massive fibs by Johnson et aliis. Who's to blame, a philosopher with some hours to spare might ask?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,045
    If Michael Ellis has any integrity he will resign saying he has had enough trying to defend the indefensible
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Carnyx said:

    MISTY said:

    Mr. Borough, for some voters, that's true.

    But not nearly enough.

    Having fanatically pro- or anti-EU voters locked in is insignificant compared to those between those two extremes.

    Bone and his fellow tories cannot seem to grasp that it wasn't Johnson that got brexit done, it was the voters.


    After massive fibs by Johnson et aliis. Who's to blame, a philosopher with some hours to spare might ask?
    As the euro plunges towards parity with the US dollar?

    Search me.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Mr. Dyed, it can't be Baker. I haven't backed him.

    Morris it can't be Baker. I have backed him.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,526

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Debating whether to attend local festival this year. Headliners Kula Shaker which is not great.

    Fun fact, radiohead had a debate about what to label the tapes for their 7th album which would make it least likely that anyone would play them if they were lost/stolen and decided on "Kula Shaker demo."

    That is slim pickings. I saw the Stones on Sunday and I suspect subsequent concerts and festivals may struggle to match it.
    They were way past it when I saw them in 1990
    They were tottering when I saw them at Knebworth in 1976… though they had the disadvantage of coming on after Lynyrd Skynyrd had flattened most of Hertfordshire…
    That Knebworth concert is achieving that legendary status whereby far more people claim to have been there than were actually present.

    Not directing that at you, it is just that you are about the fourth person in the last month or so to mention to me that they saw Skynyrd at Knebworth in 76.

    I am extremely jealous. :)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    The US version of the Finnish heat storage system.https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/nrel-options-a-modular-cost-effective-build-anywhere-particle-thermal-energy-storage-technology.html

    This is genuinely interesting - particularly for a country like Scotland (or its Scandinavian neighbours), which has the potential for a large year round surplus of renewable energy generation, and a big demand for heating in the winter months, most of which is currently provided by burning gas.

    The Finnish system seems to work much better for hot water than for converting back to electricity, which makes me wonder, would it be theoretically possible to design a modular system that could be small enough and efficient enough to replace boilers - instead of heat pumps?

    Or would it always need to be big enough that it could only work for eg industry or large scale distribution?
    I suspect there is a major benefit in increasing volume to reduce the surrounding (and so cooling) surface area...
    I still think they’d be better sitting in a horseshoe…
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    THIS feels like the end for BoJo, doesn’t it?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    If Michael Ellis has any integrity he will resign saying he has had enough trying to defend the indefensible

    Mr G, he would have gone before he actually had any integrity! Surely!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Mr. Dyed, it can't be Baker. I haven't backed him.

    Baker saves you dough. He is clearly the CoL answer!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    dixiedean said:

    The PM "forgot" about the allegations apparently.

    Which he would have got away with, had it been a first offence…
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    THIS feels like the end for BoJo, doesn’t it?

    If it isnt its the end of the Tories
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Debating whether to attend local festival this year. Headliners Kula Shaker which is not great.

    Fun fact, radiohead had a debate about what to label the tapes for their 7th album which would make it least likely that anyone would play them if they were lost/stolen and decided on "Kula Shaker demo."

    That is slim pickings. I saw the Stones on Sunday and I suspect subsequent concerts and festivals may struggle to match it.
    They were way past it when I saw them in 1990
    They were tottering when I saw them at Knebworth in 1976… though they had the disadvantage of coming on after Lynyrd Skynyrd had flattened most of Hertfordshire…
    That Knebworth concert is achieving that legendary status whereby far more people claim to have been there than were actually present.

    Not directing that at you, it is just that you are about the fourth person in the last month or so to mention to me that they saw Skynyrd at Knebworth in 76.

    I am extremely jealous. :)
    Skynyrd are the poor man's Allman Brothers Band.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,045

    If Michael Ellis has any integrity he will resign saying he has had enough trying to defend the indefensible

    Mr G, he would have gone before he actually had any integrity! Surely!
    Maybe the time at the dispatch box this lunchtime will help to realise he was aiding and abetting a PM who is unfit for office
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Remain-inclined politicians should make the most of the next few weeks by talking about Boris Brexit, Brexit Boris, Borish Johnson's disastrous Brexit etc as often and repeatedly as possible. Aim to cause some collateral damage.

    It worked - very well, in both directions - with "Blair's illegal invasion of Iraq" or "Clegg's AV referendum", in both cases associating an unpopular politician with a cause.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,045
    TimS said:

    Remain-inclined politicians should make the most of the next few weeks by talking about Boris Brexit, Brexit Boris, Borish Johnson's disastrous Brexit etc as often and repeatedly as possible. Aim to cause some collateral damage.

    It worked - very well, in both directions - with "Blair's illegal invasion of Iraq" or "Clegg's AV referendum", in both cases associating an unpopular politician with a cause.

    It cannot be labour ones as they are on the same page
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    That's quite the excuse.

    Not so much thin as contemptible both in the offering and the insult to anyone with a brain that hears it.

    He's reserving his top three excuses ("It was like that when I got here," "You don't know them, they go to a different school," and "A big boy did it and he ran away") for even more challenging situations.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    THIS feels like the end for BoJo, doesn’t it?

    If it isnt its the end of the Tories
    Yes, I think so. Michael Ellis performance now in parliament is shambolic
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,267

    That's quite the excuse.

    Not so much thin as contemptible both in the offering and the insult to anyone with a brain that hears it.

    He's reserving his top three excuses ("It was like that when I got here," "You don't know them, they go to a different school," and "A big boy did it and he ran away") for even more challenging situations.
    What about "The dog ate my homework/intelligence report/etc"?
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904


    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    ·
    2m
    BREAKING: Downing Street suggests that Boris Johnson *forgot* on Friday that he’d been told about FCO sex pest complaint about Chris Pincher.

    PM’s official spokesman defends No 10 changing story saying that “some of the facts around this have taken some time to establish”.

    I mean.... just fuck off, Boris.
    This is all very confusing. We have cabinet ministers speaking on behalf of the government (prop. B. Johnson). We have No. 10. - a building - making statements. Here we have the PM's official spokesman. And we have Mr Johnson himself, though he may or may not remember the details of what he is saying.

    The Conservative Party is a complete and utter shower. They ought to get rid of the whole miserable junta and find themselves a decent and responsible Conservative government - not necessarily one I would agree with, but at least one that I could respect.
  • Simon_PeachSimon_Peach Posts: 424

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Debating whether to attend local festival this year. Headliners Kula Shaker which is not great.

    Fun fact, radiohead had a debate about what to label the tapes for their 7th album which would make it least likely that anyone would play them if they were lost/stolen and decided on "Kula Shaker demo."

    That is slim pickings. I saw the Stones on Sunday and I suspect subsequent concerts and festivals may struggle to match it.
    They were way past it when I saw them in 1990
    They were tottering when I saw them at Knebworth in 1976… though they had the disadvantage of coming on after Lynyrd Skynyrd had flattened most of Hertfordshire…
    That Knebworth concert is achieving that legendary status whereby far more people claim to have been there than were actually present.

    Not directing that at you, it is just that you are about the fourth person in the last month or so to mention to me that they saw Skynyrd at Knebworth in 76.

    I am extremely jealous. :)
    Ha, sadly I have no picture evidence but written affidavits from slightly less stoned than me colleagues are available. We travelled down by coach from Hull on the Friday, slept in the open air (76 drought had a week to run); the Stones came on very late and Keith had a huge Elastoplast on one finger; explained a lot. Fortunately, our coach driver waited for us and we drove back overnight.

    Also saw Skynyrd at Leeds University, must have been 76 or 77, even better in a relatively small concert hall. Most memorable concerts I’ve been to. As a footnote, saw the Eagles at Bingley Hall, Stafford about the same time so find it amusing that they are now back in the U.K. a mere 46 years later.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,526
    dixiedean said:

    The PM "forgot" about the allegations apparently.

    Just like he forgot about the parties.

    And that he begged donors for money to fix his flat at Number 10.

    And apparently on several occasions in the past he has 'forgotten' that he was married.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Chris Mason about whom I am lukewarm - not great not awful - is politicising his reporting of the matter on WatO.

    Of course Boris is a lying scumbag but that is not for the BBC to imply.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    TimS said:

    Remain-inclined politicians should make the most of the next few weeks by talking about Boris Brexit, Brexit Boris, Borish Johnson's disastrous Brexit etc as often and repeatedly as possible. Aim to cause some collateral damage.

    It worked - very well, in both directions - with "Blair's illegal invasion of Iraq" or "Clegg's AV referendum", in both cases associating an unpopular politician with a cause.

    It will also distract from the mounting crisis in the eurozone economy....
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    That's quite the excuse.

    Not so much thin as contemptible both in the offering and the insult to anyone with a brain that hears it.

    He's reserving his top three excuses ("It was like that when I got here," "You don't know them, they go to a different school," and "A big boy did it and he ran away") for even more challenging situations.
    What about "The dog ate my homework/intelligence report/etc"?
    He doesn't want attention falling on Dilyn after the earlier reports of the poor dog getting kicked.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    BoZo spoke to Zelensky this morning...
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo spoke to Zelensky this morning...

    “Please help me”
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Chi Onwurah (Lab) says, rather than investigate when Boris Johnson has lied, whether it might save time to hold an inquiry into whether he has ever told the truth.

    Fair point.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,526

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Debating whether to attend local festival this year. Headliners Kula Shaker which is not great.

    Fun fact, radiohead had a debate about what to label the tapes for their 7th album which would make it least likely that anyone would play them if they were lost/stolen and decided on "Kula Shaker demo."

    That is slim pickings. I saw the Stones on Sunday and I suspect subsequent concerts and festivals may struggle to match it.
    They were way past it when I saw them in 1990
    They were tottering when I saw them at Knebworth in 1976… though they had the disadvantage of coming on after Lynyrd Skynyrd had flattened most of Hertfordshire…
    That Knebworth concert is achieving that legendary status whereby far more people claim to have been there than were actually present.

    Not directing that at you, it is just that you are about the fourth person in the last month or so to mention to me that they saw Skynyrd at Knebworth in 76.

    I am extremely jealous. :)
    Skynyrd are the poor man's Allman Brothers Band.
    Nah. I mean the Allman's were great but Skynyrd were better.

    So far for the rest of this year I have George Thorogood in a couple of weeks, Roxy Music in October and Tedeschi Trucks band in November. Also waiting for the announcement of tour dates for Springsteen next year.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Fair to say that all of this is going down absolutely appallingly among Tory MPs.

    A Government source says: "Backbenchers who went back to constituency surgeries at the weekend were being asked by voters how many boys they had touched up this week. The mood is not great."

    https://twitter.com/Tony_Diver/status/1544289293404971008
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Ellis saying matter is sub-judice as it being investigated by the Commons.
    But the procedure is supposed to be confidential, isn't it?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Carnyx said:

    Guess Hari and team are spending a long time concocting another contorted pack of bollocks before briefing the press.

    Surely Coffey has the guts and integrity to walk at least. She seems a decent enough person and sensible minister - likely to be retained in a new Cabinet.

    Despite all of the other false dawns, I have to question if this is *it*. We have had so many lies spread by cabinet ministers, and yet this one is spectacular.

    As others have pointed out, this is the Perfect Storm. BloJo directly appoints someone he *knows* to be a menace. "Pincher by Nature" etc. Then we have got the PM himself directly lying to ministers as senior as the DPM, sending them off to tell lies as the official government position.

    This isn't something that can be obfuscated by smoke or claims of bias. How does the No10 Press Office possibly function now? With direct proof that they are knowing lying to their own ministers?
    Technically, it's not a lie if he really did forget. Mens rea and all that. Though not *checking* on such a critical matter is also culpable. Which is more likely, i wonder?
    Its a lie. They said he was not aware. He was aware. "I forgot [that I was aware]" does not change the established fact that he was aware.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,526
    This thread has Gone to the Great Gig in the Sky
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Bone suggests Labour call a VoNC. Be careful what you wish for...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited July 2022

    Carnyx said:

    Guess Hari and team are spending a long time concocting another contorted pack of bollocks before briefing the press.

    Surely Coffey has the guts and integrity to walk at least. She seems a decent enough person and sensible minister - likely to be retained in a new Cabinet.

    Despite all of the other false dawns, I have to question if this is *it*. We have had so many lies spread by cabinet ministers, and yet this one is spectacular.

    As others have pointed out, this is the Perfect Storm. BloJo directly appoints someone he *knows* to be a menace. "Pincher by Nature" etc. Then we have got the PM himself directly lying to ministers as senior as the DPM, sending them off to tell lies as the official government position.

    This isn't something that can be obfuscated by smoke or claims of bias. How does the No10 Press Office possibly function now? With direct proof that they are knowing lying to their own ministers?
    Technically, it's not a lie if he really did forget. Mens rea and all that. Though not *checking* on such a critical matter is also culpable. Which is more likely, i wonder?
    Its a lie. They said he was not aware. He was aware. "I forgot [that I was aware]" does not change the established fact that he was aware.
    We're back to the discussion about sentient consciousness again, aren't we?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    TOPPING said:

    Chris Mason about whom I am lukewarm - not great not awful - is politicising his reporting of the matter on WatO.

    Of course Boris is a lying scumbag but that is not for the BBC to imply.

    I’m not watching, but objectively Boris is a lying scumbag and what we see is that conventions of various kinds melt under the heat of his squalid corruption.

    He was never a fit person for PM, and astonishingly his senior colleague Michael Gove told us that publicly all the way back in 2016.

    Bone’s suggestion that no-one cares because Brexit is practically asking for civil disobedience in my opinion.

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    TOPPING said:

    Chris Mason about whom I am lukewarm - not great not awful - is politicising his reporting of the matter on WatO.

    Of course Boris is a lying scumbag but that is not for the BBC to imply.

    It is not implied. It is a fact. Their job is to report the facts. Impartially. Not reporting the fact that the lying scumbag is PM would be partisan.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,924

    If hes not removed by PMQs then nobody in the cabinet can take over without taint
    Its Baker, Tugonmyhat, Mordaunt or Hunt

    No it is not.

    Tory Party members and Tory Party members alone will get the final say on who the next Tory leader and PM is if Boris goes.

    According to yesterday's ConHome survey the Defence Secretary Ben Wallace comfortably beats Mordaunt and Baker and trounces Hunt and Tugendhat

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/04/next-tory-leader-play-offs-ninth-jeremy-hunt/

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/04/next-tory-leader-play-offs-eighth-tom-tugendhat/

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/04/next-tory-leader-play-offs-seventh-steve-baker/

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/04/next-tory-leader-play-offs-first-ben-wallace-second-penny-mordaunt/
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,297

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Explosive call now on @mrjamesob a serving senior civil servant rings in to say our democracy is in danger due to lies coming from No.10 Press operation. Says he was felt a duty to ring in after watching Dominic Raab call into question Simon McDonald’s account in his letter

    “Stewart” went on to say: Do not underestimate how dangerous this is. Our democracy is under threat. Calls on Simon Case to resign. Says to have the most senior spokesperson to continually lie on behalf of the PM is the sign of a “failed and corrupt state”

    He also called on all the civil servants sitting in the Number 10 press office to get up and leave their desks in protest. “I should be at work serving the country!”

    @mrjamesob “You are”


    https://twitter.com/hattmarris84/status/1544260557297127427

    Call me an ole cynic, but you didn't see civil servants so passionate about 'lies coming from Number 10' until they were threatened with a reduction in their numbers.
    David Cameron actually cut the civil service rather than just talking about it like Boris.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is this the one? Finally?

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    24m
    Just to repeat. We’ve been told Pincher was vetted at the time of his appointment. That vetting will have uncovered the 2019 incident, which was officially recorded. And that will then have been reported back to the Prime Minister. There is no way round this for Boris or No.10.

    Probably not.
    True.

    But I think this morning'e events have absolutely guaranteed Johnson will not be leader for next GE.

    I hope to God that you are right.
    Tory MPs knew all the flaws in his character when they chose him. To dump him now shreds their credibility & judgment, even as it's the only way to maintain any integrity.

    An exquisite dilemma they're in, though few seem to realise it let alone appear capable of resolving it.
    When in a hole, stop digging.

    To dump him now would be sound judgement. He was the right man for the job three years ago, but that job is done and he isn't right anymore. He absolutely needs to go.
    I'm not sure BJ got any job done (apart from winning the GE 2019) there is nothing he can claim policy-wise to have really completed.... The NI Protocol is an absolute running sore
    Brexit is done, we are out of the EU and out of the Article 50 quagmire. We aren't having to extend Article 50 every three months anymore. NI may be a sore to deal with post-Brexit, but Brexit itself is done and we are out of Article 50.

    The covid vaccine rollout was also done, and so was a lot of support for Ukraine even pre-war which allowed them to survive the initial onslaught as well as the subsequent support now.

    That's three very big ticks in his column, but its not about balancing pros and cons, if you commit gross misconduct you need to go, no ifs or buts.
    Would you accept that Johnson lied about what his oven-ready Brexit deal delivered?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited July 2022
    After several mentions, I’ve just put the first Kula Shaker album on Spotify.

    It hasn’t aged very well, and it sounds tinny (could be the Spotify compression), but it’s not complete shit.

    Reminds me, whatever happened to Ocean Colour Scene?
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    TOPPING said:

    Chris Mason about whom I am lukewarm - not great not awful - is politicising his reporting of the matter on WatO.

    Of course Boris is a lying scumbag but that is not for the BBC to imply.

    Indeed not. They shouldn't imply this.

    They should just say it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,434
    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris said:

    In every culture in decline the watchful ones among the slaves know all that is genuine will be scorned and conned and cast away.

    Which culture is in decline? Russian is the obvious one.
    Clue in the previous words

    Land of snap decisions
    Land of short attention spans
    Nothing is savored
    Long enough to really understand
    Savoured.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,899
    New thread.
This discussion has been closed.