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Wallace might top ConHome’s list but he’s still a relative unknown – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,740

    Yikes!!!


    Mark M Bathgate
    @m_bathgate
    ·
    5h
    This is the price of UK natural gas for this winter compared to the last 5 years - close to 900% higher now. This would take the average UK utility bill to around £4000. The energy crisis is getting worse fast and the UK government is completely asleep at the wheel. 😬

    https://twitter.com/m_bathgate/status/1543971202435276800

    I don't recognise those figures. According to the futures exchanges, it's "only" up ~4x.

    Oh, I see the graph actually shows 8x, but 4x in the last year (i.e. the main trading period). I actually don't know what proportion of the UK's domestic supply for December has already been bought.
    It will have interesting economic effects when the price drops, either through Russian defeat or alternative sources covering the gap. Sometime off methinks.
  • Options
    Guto Harri is destroying BoJo from the inside?
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176

    Guto Harri is destroying BoJo from the inside?

    He's a gut harrier?

  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,281
    geoffw said:

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Government minister openly attacking his own government’s policy 👇 https://twitter.com/greghands/status/1544032775191289856

    I doubt it will be long before some senior Labour remainer breaks with Starmer's fence-sitting, either.
    I think Starmer is outright lying on the EU

    He does not expect a majority (rightly); if he gains power it will be with the help of the Libs and maybe other minor parties. The smaller parties will demand a move to the SM and CU, in some form. Korma will sigh and reluctantly agree, for the good of the nation and to prevent a Tory govt

    Politically, highly astute. Morally, very questionable
    Can't see it. SM and CU membership aren't things you can just pick off the shelf - it will probably require years of negotiation. Sir Keir won't want to get bogged down by all that in a hung parliament with the Tories ready to play the 'Labour Cancelled Brexit' card at the next GE. Sir Keir will want to shelve the Brexit stuff and, ideally, leave it to a Tory successor of Boris to sort out.
    Fair, but I am trying to picture the pressures there will be, on Starmer, to move towards the EU

    Labour might be a one term govt. It could be their only chance to reverse a chunk of Brexit, and many on his side are DESPERATE to do that

    We shall see
    TELEGRAPH:
    Sir Keir Starmer is facing a Labour revolt over Brexit after he vowed not to take Britain back into the Single Market.

    In a keynote speech on Britain’s future outside the European Union, Sir Keir pledged to “make Brexit work” and said he would not seek to join the Single Market or a customs union.

    But before he had even delivered his remarks, the Labour leader faced a backlash from within his own ranks, with Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, openly contradicting him.


    A beautifully orchestrated artificial row, to highlight Starmer as being a commanding leader.
    Splitters splitting.

    Doesn't conference decide whether the policy will be rejoin SM or not?

    I guess he can square enough unions to try and get it passed but what about ordinary delegates?
  • Options

    geoffw said:

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Government minister openly attacking his own government’s policy 👇 https://twitter.com/greghands/status/1544032775191289856

    I doubt it will be long before some senior Labour remainer breaks with Starmer's fence-sitting, either.
    I think Starmer is outright lying on the EU

    He does not expect a majority (rightly); if he gains power it will be with the help of the Libs and maybe other minor parties. The smaller parties will demand a move to the SM and CU, in some form. Korma will sigh and reluctantly agree, for the good of the nation and to prevent a Tory govt

    Politically, highly astute. Morally, very questionable
    Can't see it. SM and CU membership aren't things you can just pick off the shelf - it will probably require years of negotiation. Sir Keir won't want to get bogged down by all that in a hung parliament with the Tories ready to play the 'Labour Cancelled Brexit' card at the next GE. Sir Keir will want to shelve the Brexit stuff and, ideally, leave it to a Tory successor of Boris to sort out.
    Fair, but I am trying to picture the pressures there will be, on Starmer, to move towards the EU

    Labour might be a one term govt. It could be their only chance to reverse a chunk of Brexit, and many on his side are DESPERATE to do that

    We shall see
    TELEGRAPH:
    Sir Keir Starmer is facing a Labour revolt over Brexit after he vowed not to take Britain back into the Single Market.

    In a keynote speech on Britain’s future outside the European Union, Sir Keir pledged to “make Brexit work” and said he would not seek to join the Single Market or a customs union.

    But before he had even delivered his remarks, the Labour leader faced a backlash from within his own ranks, with Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, openly contradicting him.


    A beautifully orchestrated artificial row, to highlight Starmer as being a commanding leader.
    Splitters splitting.

    Doesn't conference decide whether the policy will be rejoin SM or not?

    I guess he can square enough unions to try and get it passed but what about ordinary delegates?
    Conference means sod all
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,919
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Tuesday’s i - “Cabinet angry at defending Johnson again” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1544062191543918593/photo/1

    Well, do something about it, you spineless nonentities!!!

    I believe the approved Borisism would be 'Great supine protoplasmic invertebrate jellies'.
    No, no science education afaik. Scrub words 3 and 4, and insert some suitably classical allusion such as 'servile eunuchs'.
    I'd remembered him using it once, but turns out he's done it at least twice

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBwgCbRQqD8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMFPH6OCkQs
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,919

    geoffw said:

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Government minister openly attacking his own government’s policy 👇 https://twitter.com/greghands/status/1544032775191289856

    I doubt it will be long before some senior Labour remainer breaks with Starmer's fence-sitting, either.
    I think Starmer is outright lying on the EU

    He does not expect a majority (rightly); if he gains power it will be with the help of the Libs and maybe other minor parties. The smaller parties will demand a move to the SM and CU, in some form. Korma will sigh and reluctantly agree, for the good of the nation and to prevent a Tory govt

    Politically, highly astute. Morally, very questionable
    Can't see it. SM and CU membership aren't things you can just pick off the shelf - it will probably require years of negotiation. Sir Keir won't want to get bogged down by all that in a hung parliament with the Tories ready to play the 'Labour Cancelled Brexit' card at the next GE. Sir Keir will want to shelve the Brexit stuff and, ideally, leave it to a Tory successor of Boris to sort out.
    Fair, but I am trying to picture the pressures there will be, on Starmer, to move towards the EU

    Labour might be a one term govt. It could be their only chance to reverse a chunk of Brexit, and many on his side are DESPERATE to do that

    We shall see
    TELEGRAPH:
    Sir Keir Starmer is facing a Labour revolt over Brexit after he vowed not to take Britain back into the Single Market.

    In a keynote speech on Britain’s future outside the European Union, Sir Keir pledged to “make Brexit work” and said he would not seek to join the Single Market or a customs union.

    But before he had even delivered his remarks, the Labour leader faced a backlash from within his own ranks, with Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, openly contradicting him.


    A beautifully orchestrated artificial row, to highlight Starmer as being a commanding leader.
    Splitters splitting.

    Doesn't conference decide whether the policy will be rejoin SM or not?

    I guess he can square enough unions to try and get it passed but what about ordinary delegates?
    Conference means sod all
    Shh, politicians know that, but they're not supposed to say it out loud.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176

    geoffw said:

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Government minister openly attacking his own government’s policy 👇 https://twitter.com/greghands/status/1544032775191289856

    I doubt it will be long before some senior Labour remainer breaks with Starmer's fence-sitting, either.
    I think Starmer is outright lying on the EU

    He does not expect a majority (rightly); if he gains power it will be with the help of the Libs and maybe other minor parties. The smaller parties will demand a move to the SM and CU, in some form. Korma will sigh and reluctantly agree, for the good of the nation and to prevent a Tory govt

    Politically, highly astute. Morally, very questionable
    Can't see it. SM and CU membership aren't things you can just pick off the shelf - it will probably require years of negotiation. Sir Keir won't want to get bogged down by all that in a hung parliament with the Tories ready to play the 'Labour Cancelled Brexit' card at the next GE. Sir Keir will want to shelve the Brexit stuff and, ideally, leave it to a Tory successor of Boris to sort out.
    Fair, but I am trying to picture the pressures there will be, on Starmer, to move towards the EU

    Labour might be a one term govt. It could be their only chance to reverse a chunk of Brexit, and many on his side are DESPERATE to do that

    We shall see
    TELEGRAPH:
    Sir Keir Starmer is facing a Labour revolt over Brexit after he vowed not to take Britain back into the Single Market.

    In a keynote speech on Britain’s future outside the European Union, Sir Keir pledged to “make Brexit work” and said he would not seek to join the Single Market or a customs union.

    But before he had even delivered his remarks, the Labour leader faced a backlash from within his own ranks, with Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, openly contradicting him.


    A beautifully orchestrated artificial row, to highlight Starmer as being a commanding leader.
    Splitters splitting.

    Doesn't conference decide whether the policy will be rejoin SM or not?

    I guess he can square enough unions to try and get it passed but what about ordinary delegates?
    What about the workers?

  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,993
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Government minister openly attacking his own government’s policy 👇 https://twitter.com/greghands/status/1544032775191289856

    I doubt it will be long before some senior Labour remainer breaks with Starmer's fence-sitting, either.
    I think Starmer is outright lying on the EU

    He does not expect a majority (rightly); if he gains power it will be with the help of the Libs and maybe other minor parties. The smaller parties will demand a move to the SM and CU, in some form. Korma will sigh and reluctantly agree, for the good of the nation and to prevent a Tory govt

    Politically, highly astute. Morally, very questionable
    Can't see it. SM and CU membership aren't things you can just pick off the shelf - it will probably require years of negotiation. Sir Keir won't want to get bogged down by all that in a hung parliament with the Tories ready to play the 'Labour Cancelled Brexit' card at the next GE. Sir Keir will want to shelve the Brexit stuff and, ideally, leave it to a Tory successor of Boris to sort out.
    Fair, but I am trying to picture the pressures there will be, on Starmer, to move towards the EU

    Labour might be a one term govt. It could be their only chance to reverse a chunk of Brexit, and many on his side are DESPERATE to do that

    We shall see
    TELEGRAPH:
    Sir Keir Starmer is facing a Labour revolt over Brexit after he vowed not to take Britain back into the Single Market.

    In a keynote speech on Britain’s future outside the European Union, Sir Keir pledged to “make Brexit work” and said he would not seek to join the Single Market or a customs union.

    But before he had even delivered his remarks, the Labour leader faced a backlash from within his own ranks, with Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, openly contradicting him.


    A beautifully orchestrated artificial row, to highlight Starmer as being a commanding leader.
    Splitters splitting.

    Doesn't conference decide whether the policy will be rejoin SM or not?

    I guess he can square enough unions to try and get it passed but what about ordinary delegates?
    What about the workers?

    They want a pay rise.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176
    dixiedean said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Government minister openly attacking his own government’s policy 👇 https://twitter.com/greghands/status/1544032775191289856

    I doubt it will be long before some senior Labour remainer breaks with Starmer's fence-sitting, either.
    I think Starmer is outright lying on the EU

    He does not expect a majority (rightly); if he gains power it will be with the help of the Libs and maybe other minor parties. The smaller parties will demand a move to the SM and CU, in some form. Korma will sigh and reluctantly agree, for the good of the nation and to prevent a Tory govt

    Politically, highly astute. Morally, very questionable
    Can't see it. SM and CU membership aren't things you can just pick off the shelf - it will probably require years of negotiation. Sir Keir won't want to get bogged down by all that in a hung parliament with the Tories ready to play the 'Labour Cancelled Brexit' card at the next GE. Sir Keir will want to shelve the Brexit stuff and, ideally, leave it to a Tory successor of Boris to sort out.
    Fair, but I am trying to picture the pressures there will be, on Starmer, to move towards the EU

    Labour might be a one term govt. It could be their only chance to reverse a chunk of Brexit, and many on his side are DESPERATE to do that

    We shall see
    TELEGRAPH:
    Sir Keir Starmer is facing a Labour revolt over Brexit after he vowed not to take Britain back into the Single Market.

    In a keynote speech on Britain’s future outside the European Union, Sir Keir pledged to “make Brexit work” and said he would not seek to join the Single Market or a customs union.

    But before he had even delivered his remarks, the Labour leader faced a backlash from within his own ranks, with Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, openly contradicting him.


    A beautifully orchestrated artificial row, to highlight Starmer as being a commanding leader.
    Splitters splitting.

    Doesn't conference decide whether the policy will be rejoin SM or not?

    I guess he can square enough unions to try and get it passed but what about ordinary delegates?
    What about the workers?

    They want a pay rise.
    They're the backbone of the nation. And they should move to the front.

  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176
    Enuff repartee. It's past my bedtime.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,623

    Guto Harri is destroying BoJo from the inside?

    Remember years ago, listening to Guto Hari reporting from various flashpoints via BBC World Service.

    In those days, I heard his name (at first, through certain level of static and half awake) as "Guitar Harry".

    Which sounded pretty damn cool if a tad informal for a BBC journalist.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052
    edited July 2022
    So Starmer doesn't want to rejoin the SM and CU. Does he have a plan to diverge on anything? Come to think of it do the government?

    On the war in Ukraine, some of the commentary is getting a little hesitant with regards to the costs of support for Ukraine. For instance with a billion pounds you could build two hospitals. Well let me do a back of the fag packet calculation. The economic output of the Nato countries must be $40tn. So if each country was prepared to borrow an extra 0.5% of GDP for one year that would be $200bn dollars. National debt would for example be 75.5% rather than 75%. I'm not sure what exactly you would get for $200bn dollars but I imagine it would be quite a lot.

    Would that additional debt and interest payments not be a price worth paying for outright Russian defeat or at the very least security on Europe's eastern border?
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,668
    Nigelb said:

    Jesus H, the Republicans can’t even do basic maths now.

    https://twitter.com/santiagomayer_/status/1543983844059222017

    I wonder how many people reading it think it is ok? I wonder if anyone here does?
  • Options
    Since we're out of the EU, let's bring the railways back into public ownership and run them ourselves, massive subsidies to make them world class.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,070
    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Government minister openly attacking his own government’s policy 👇 https://twitter.com/greghands/status/1544032775191289856

    I doubt it will be long before some senior Labour remainer breaks with Starmer's fence-sitting, either.
    I think Starmer is outright lying on the EU

    He does not expect a majority (rightly); if he gains power it will be with the help of the Libs and maybe other minor parties. The smaller parties will demand a move to the SM and CU, in some form. Korma will sigh and reluctantly agree, for the good of the nation and to prevent a Tory govt

    Politically, highly astute. Morally, very questionable
    Can't see it. SM and CU membership aren't things you can just pick off the shelf - it will probably require years of negotiation. Sir Keir won't want to get bogged down by all that in a hung parliament with the Tories ready to play the 'Labour Cancelled Brexit' card at the next GE. Sir Keir will want to shelve the Brexit stuff and, ideally, leave it to a Tory successor of Boris to sort out.
    Fair, but I am trying to picture the pressures there will be, on Starmer, to move towards the EU

    Labour might be a one term govt. It could be their only chance to reverse a chunk of Brexit, and many on his side are DESPERATE to do that

    We shall see
    TELEGRAPH:
    Sir Keir Starmer is facing a Labour revolt over Brexit after he vowed not to take Britain back into the Single Market.

    In a keynote speech on Britain’s future outside the European Union, Sir Keir pledged to “make Brexit work” and said he would not seek to join the Single Market or a customs union.

    But before he had even delivered his remarks, the Labour leader faced a backlash from within his own ranks, with Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, openly contradicting him.





    A beautifully orchestrated artificial row, to highlight Starmer as being a commanding leader.
    Yes, and give ‘Remainers’ comfort that there is still europhile fire within the party.

    But, the policy is the right one. We have to move on from Brexit and accept it as a fact of life. The chances of returning to the SM in the foreseeable future are nil.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    So Starmer doesn't want to rejoin the SM and CU. Does he have a plan to diverge on anything? Come to think of it do the government?

    On the war in Ukraine, some of the commentary is getting a little hesitant with regards to the costs of support for Ukraine. For instance with a billion pounds you could build two hospitals. Well let me do a back of the fag packet calculation. The economic output of the Nato countries must be $40tn. So if each country was prepared to borrow an extra 0.5% of GDP for one year that would be $200bn dollars. National debt would for example be 75.5% rather than 75%. I'm not sure what exactly you would get for $200bn dollars but I imagine it would be quite a lot.

    Would that additional debt and interest payments not be a price worth paying for outright Russian defeat or at the very least security on Europe's eastern border?

    Whatever it costs will be a hell of a lot cheaper than a Russian victory.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,919
    edited July 2022
    Pincher was so bang to rights he resigned the day after the latest incident, which lends weight to any new allegations that emerge, and reports of old concerns that were ignored.

    Boris can and will be able to survive such allegations without firm corroboration.

    Though it is reminding me of jokes they used to do about Biden being creepily handsy, not that it harmed him.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,993

    Guto Harri is destroying BoJo from the inside?

    Remember years ago, listening to Guto Hari reporting from various flashpoints via BBC World Service.

    In those days, I heard his name (at first, through certain level of static and half awake) as "Guitar Harry".

    Which sounded pretty damn cool if a tad informal for a BBC journalist.
    Check out Guitar George he knows all the chords.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,317
    edited July 2022

    Since we're out of the EU, let's bring the railways back into public ownership and run them ourselves, massive subsidies to make them world class.

    I wonder if Brexit might actually be more beneficial to Labour in the long term. With stagflation looming they're well placed to exploit any disillusionment with capitalism that may ensue. And with FOM gone, they no longer have to tread that fine line between taking up the banner for the poor while eschewing the 'blame my plight on the immigrants' stuff. The Left might find Brexit surprisingly liberating.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325
    The anger visibly bubbling up in Tory ranks isn’t just because once again they’re mired in avoidable scandal, but because they’re increasingly disinclined to cover up for a man who makes them feel like collateral damage to his own ambitions.

    Boris Johnson’s modus operandi has always required an army of people clearing up behind him. He needs wives prepared to forgive his infidelities, deputies willing to do the work that bores him, spin doctors capable of reconciling sweeping public statements with known facts, and allies willing publicly to defend some exceedingly sticky wickets. When he was foreign secretary, diplomats nicknamed his junior minister Alan Duncan the “pooper scooper”, forever cleaning up his messes. Yet suddenly, some of Big Dog’s allies seem to be downing their scoops.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Government minister openly attacking his own government’s policy 👇 https://twitter.com/greghands/status/1544032775191289856

    I doubt it will be long before some senior Labour remainer breaks with Starmer's fence-sitting, either.
    I think Starmer is outright lying on the EU

    He does not expect a majority (rightly); if he gains power it will be with the help of the Libs and maybe other minor parties. The smaller parties will demand a move to the SM and CU, in some form. Korma will sigh and reluctantly agree, for the good of the nation and to prevent a Tory govt

    Politically, highly astute. Morally, very questionable
    Can't see it. SM and CU membership aren't things you can just pick off the shelf - it will probably require years of negotiation. Sir Keir won't want to get bogged down by all that in a hung parliament with the Tories ready to play the 'Labour Cancelled Brexit' card at the next GE. Sir Keir will want to shelve the Brexit stuff and, ideally, leave it to a Tory successor of Boris to sort out.
    Fair, but I am trying to picture the pressures there will be, on Starmer, to move towards the EU

    Labour might be a one term govt. It could be their only chance to reverse a chunk of Brexit, and many on his side are DESPERATE to do that

    We shall see
    TELEGRAPH:
    Sir Keir Starmer is facing a Labour revolt over Brexit after he vowed not to take Britain back into the Single Market.

    In a keynote speech on Britain’s future outside the European Union, Sir Keir pledged to “make Brexit work” and said he would not seek to join the Single Market or a customs union.

    But before he had even delivered his remarks, the Labour leader faced a backlash from within his own ranks, with Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, openly contradicting him.


    A beautifully orchestrated artificial row, to highlight Starmer as being a commanding leader.
    Couldn't he have chosen something slightly less crucial? It's taken roughly four years to establish beyond reasonable doubt that Brexit was a vanity project for the extreme right that has failed spectacularly causing a mayhem few believed they would ever see in their lifetimes?

    It seems almost unimaginably stupid for an opposition party leading in the polls to be jumping aboard the Johnson/Farage Red Brexit Bus at a time like this
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,740

    So Starmer doesn't want to rejoin the SM and CU. Does he have a plan to diverge on anything? Come to think of it do the government?

    On the war in Ukraine, some of the commentary is getting a little hesitant with regards to the costs of support for Ukraine. For instance with a billion pounds you could build two hospitals. Well let me do a back of the fag packet calculation. The economic output of the Nato countries must be $40tn. So if each country was prepared to borrow an extra 0.5% of GDP for one year that would be $200bn dollars. National debt would for example be 75.5% rather than 75%. I'm not sure what exactly you would get for $200bn dollars but I imagine it would be quite a lot.

    Would that additional debt and interest payments not be a price worth paying for outright Russian defeat or at the very least security on Europe's eastern border?

    The destruction of the reputation and offensive ability of the Russian army is money well spent. A bit tough on East Ukraine and its people, but by this time next year there will be no external threat to Europe, and a thoroughly declawed, rather mangy Russian bear.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,114
    glw said:

    I'm really struggling to understand the wisdom of Starmer's Brexit position. He has ruled out almost everything Remainers want as a sop, and left himself essentially arguing for a harder Brexit than many Brexiteers support. This has the feel of something that is going to end up biting Starmer on the arse, probably after he weakens his promises to appease Labour supporters, and ends up with the Tories saying "he's going to rejoin the EU". He could have said "we'll do better" without painting himself into a corner.

    Perhaps he's repeating what some see as Theresa May's mistake of trying to hard to make up for having been a Remainer.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,740
    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Government minister openly attacking his own government’s policy 👇 https://twitter.com/greghands/status/1544032775191289856

    I doubt it will be long before some senior Labour remainer breaks with Starmer's fence-sitting, either.
    I think Starmer is outright lying on the EU

    He does not expect a majority (rightly); if he gains power it will be with the help of the Libs and maybe other minor parties. The smaller parties will demand a move to the SM and CU, in some form. Korma will sigh and reluctantly agree, for the good of the nation and to prevent a Tory govt

    Politically, highly astute. Morally, very questionable
    Can't see it. SM and CU membership aren't things you can just pick off the shelf - it will probably require years of negotiation. Sir Keir won't want to get bogged down by all that in a hung parliament with the Tories ready to play the 'Labour Cancelled Brexit' card at the next GE. Sir Keir will want to shelve the Brexit stuff and, ideally, leave it to a Tory successor of Boris to sort out.
    Fair, but I am trying to picture the pressures there will be, on Starmer, to move towards the EU

    Labour might be a one term govt. It could be their only chance to reverse a chunk of Brexit, and many on his side are DESPERATE to do that

    We shall see
    TELEGRAPH:
    Sir Keir Starmer is facing a Labour revolt over Brexit after he vowed not to take Britain back into the Single Market.

    In a keynote speech on Britain’s future outside the European Union, Sir Keir pledged to “make Brexit work” and said he would not seek to join the Single Market or a customs union.

    But before he had even delivered his remarks, the Labour leader faced a backlash from within his own ranks, with Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, openly contradicting him.


    A beautifully orchestrated artificial row, to highlight Starmer as being a commanding leader.
    Couldn't he have chosen something slightly less crucial? It's taken roughly four years to establish beyond reasonable doubt that Brexit was a vanity project for the extreme right that has failed spectacularly causing a mayhem few believed they would ever see in their lifetimes?

    It seems almost unimaginably stupid for an opposition party leading in the polls to be jumping aboard the Johnson/Farage Red Brexit Bus at a time like this
    Oh, I agree. I think Starmer wants to wait for public opinion to catch up with him, but he could easily be overtaken by it, and be preaching Brexit to a crowd that has changed its mind by 2024.

  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,623
    Scott_xP said:
    Pincher does seem to have been very hands-on kind of guy. Usual admirable, but NOT always.

    At this rate, may be difficult finding Conservative MPs or staffers that he failed to, err, connect with.

    In my own humble experience, only one time I was touched with intent by a fellow male (re: females, no comment!)

    I say "touched" because groped would be me going too far. He was associated with local gay paper and I was working for state initiative to ban job & housing discrimination. At one point, he reached out and patted me on the upper arm, a couple times, in a friendly but meaningful way.

    This was mid-day and no drink involved, certainly none by me & zero signs on him. Pretty clear that I COULD have gone with the flow IF that's what I wanted. Since it wasn't, I didn't, and that was that.

    Creeped me out a bit, but no lasting harm inflicted. Didn't think it warranted any action by me, and thirty years later still don't.

    Circumstances as alleged and admitted in Pincher's case go way beyond. Personally think less worse of him, than I do of the people who were his enablers, as they'd have to be blind drunk themselves to NOT have noticed he's got a hell of a monkey on his back. Have sympathy for him for that. For the willfully bind who made use of talents - as a political fixer, wine critic & whatever else he's clearly a guy with a lot going for him - for their own profit and fun.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,993
    edited July 2022

    Scott_xP said:
    Pincher does seem to have been very hands-on kind of guy. Usual admirable, but NOT always.

    At this rate, may be difficult finding Conservative MPs or staffers that he failed to, err, connect with.

    In my own humble experience, only one time I was touched with intent by a fellow male (re: females, no comment!)

    I say "touched" because groped would be me going too far. He was associated with local gay paper and I was working for state initiative to ban job & housing discrimination. At one point, he reached out and patted me on the upper arm, a couple times, in a friendly but meaningful way.

    This was mid-day and no drink involved, certainly none by me & zero signs on him. Pretty clear that I COULD have gone with the flow IF that's what I wanted. Since it wasn't, I didn't, and that was that.

    Creeped me out a bit, but no lasting harm inflicted. Didn't think it warranted any action by me, and thirty years later still don't.

    Circumstances as alleged and admitted in Pincher's case go way beyond. Personally think less worse of him, than I do of the people who were his enablers, as they'd have to be blind drunk themselves to NOT have noticed he's got a hell of a monkey on his back. Have sympathy for him for that. For the willfully bind who made use of talents - as a political fixer, wine critic & whatever else he's clearly a guy with a lot going for him - for their own profit and fun.
    Bit annoyed Chris never groped me.
    Feeling unattractive. Bastard.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,919
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    The anger visibly bubbling up in Tory ranks isn’t just because once again they’re mired in avoidable scandal, but because they’re increasingly disinclined to cover up for a man who makes them feel like collateral damage to his own ambitions.

    Boris Johnson’s modus operandi has always required an army of people clearing up behind him. He needs wives prepared to forgive his infidelities, deputies willing to do the work that bores him, spin doctors capable of reconciling sweeping public statements with known facts, and allies willing publicly to defend some exceedingly sticky wickets. When he was foreign secretary, diplomats nicknamed his junior minister Alan Duncan the “pooper scooper”, forever cleaning up his messes. Yet suddenly, some of Big Dog’s allies seem to be downing their scoops.

    These regular briefings about how cross the Tories are with the guy they continue to enable and spin for are getting more than a bit pathetic.
    It was like that in later Corbyn period, but at least that was after they as MPs had sought to remove him. The Tory MPs chose this path.
  • Options
    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,714
    Foxy said:

    I agree, the timidity over Labour's policy direction, which rightly or wrongly is believed by few, is not the way to majority.

    Possibly though Starmer would prefer a minority government.

    Possibly. Maybe he's thinking he can do a 'Cameron'. Go into bed with the LDs, blame them for everything bad, take all the credit for the good and then win a slender majority after that.

    But I liked the quote in the TV movie "Coalition", where this was suggested by Osbourne to Cameron. Cameron initially shot it down that they'd (the Conservatives) take all the flak whilst the LD all the praise. Osbourne rightly pointed out that the Conservatives had the reputation as being nasty whilst the LD did not. Blame would therefore attach to the LDs rather than the Conservatives.

    The only problem with that approach is that Labour is not the Conservatives.
    A Lab-LD coalition would probably attract blame to both parties.


    On one final note, in order to achieve a majority Labour has to do something only Blair has managed (post war). And that's win approximately 120 seats from the last time.
    Clearly not impossible as its been done, but no one else has managed it. Even Cameron's 93 wouldn't net Labour a majority.
  • Options
    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,714

    Yikes!!!


    Mark M Bathgate
    @m_bathgate
    ·
    5h
    This is the price of UK natural gas for this winter compared to the last 5 years - close to 900% higher now. This would take the average UK utility bill to around £4000. The energy crisis is getting worse fast and the UK government is completely asleep at the wheel. 😬

    https://twitter.com/m_bathgate/status/1543971202435276800

    My apologies to Brenda, but the United Kingdom desperately needs a General Election. We can't wait till January 2025.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,623

    glw said:

    I'm really struggling to understand the wisdom of Starmer's Brexit position. He has ruled out almost everything Remainers want as a sop, and left himself essentially arguing for a harder Brexit than many Brexiteers support. This has the feel of something that is going to end up biting Starmer on the arse, probably after he weakens his promises to appease Labour supporters, and ends up with the Tories saying "he's going to rejoin the EU". He could have said "we'll do better" without painting himself into a corner.

    Perhaps he's repeating what some see as Theresa May's mistake of trying to hard to make up for having been a Remainer.
    Suspect the goal is to draw a line - as with the pledge to resign if sanctioned re: Durham. And that, however tempting, he is not attempting to go backwards.

    Don't know what the alternatives to Single Market are exactly - or generally for that matter - except to think, there must be some options between all or nothing at all?

    Plus suspect that internal polling may show that this is the way & position to draw the line, to achieve maximum gain for minimum loss and thus tip the balance in positive (for Labour & Starmer) direction.

    With equation being something like this:
    > ex old Labour red-wallers will be more pleased than
    > new Labour Remainers will be displeased esp. as many of them ain't hard-shell Remainiacs
    > blue-wall Tory waverers and other swing voters who want to move on will also be pleased.

    Just a theory.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,623
    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Pincher does seem to have been very hands-on kind of guy. Usual admirable, but NOT always.

    At this rate, may be difficult finding Conservative MPs or staffers that he failed to, err, connect with.

    In my own humble experience, only one time I was touched with intent by a fellow male (re: females, no comment!)

    I say "touched" because groped would be me going too far. He was associated with local gay paper and I was working for state initiative to ban job & housing discrimination. At one point, he reached out and patted me on the upper arm, a couple times, in a friendly but meaningful way.

    This was mid-day and no drink involved, certainly none by me & zero signs on him. Pretty clear that I COULD have gone with the flow IF that's what I wanted. Since it wasn't, I didn't, and that was that.

    Creeped me out a bit, but no lasting harm inflicted. Didn't think it warranted any action by me, and thirty years later still don't.

    Circumstances as alleged and admitted in Pincher's case go way beyond. Personally think less worse of him, than I do of the people who were his enablers, as they'd have to be blind drunk themselves to NOT have noticed he's got a hell of a monkey on his back. Have sympathy for him for that. For the willfully bind who made use of talents - as a political fixer, wine critic & whatever else he's clearly a guy with a lot going for him - for their own profit and fun.
    Bit annoyed Chris never groped me.
    Feeling unattractive. Bastard.
    Suspect many Tory males - of whatever personal orientation, pronoun, etc. - will be feeling unappreciated on same basis.

    Years ago knew a woman who was aide to former US Sen. Brock Adams (D-WA) who was forced out of office because he was alleged to have sexually harassed several female staff members. She told me he'd never made a pass at her, and was glad he hadn't, but couldn't help having same feeling.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,623
    kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jesus H, the Republicans can’t even do basic maths now.

    https://twitter.com/santiagomayer_/status/1543983844059222017

    I wonder how many people reading it think it is ok? I wonder if anyone here does?
    Somehow reckon that Gov. Amb. Haley will be LESS amused when she see's "her" tweet than I am.

    Because I think she's actually numerate enough to have spotted the ants in the picnic basket.
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    The anger visibly bubbling up in Tory ranks isn’t just because once again they’re mired in avoidable scandal, but because they’re increasingly disinclined to cover up for a man who makes them feel like collateral damage to his own ambitions.

    Boris Johnson’s modus operandi has always required an army of people clearing up behind him. He needs wives prepared to forgive his infidelities, deputies willing to do the work that bores him, spin doctors capable of reconciling sweeping public statements with known facts, and allies willing publicly to defend some exceedingly sticky wickets. When he was foreign secretary, diplomats nicknamed his junior minister Alan Duncan the “pooper scooper”, forever cleaning up his messes. Yet suddenly, some of Big Dog’s allies seem to be downing their scoops.

    These regular briefings about how cross the Tories are with the guy they continue to enable and spin for are getting more than a bit pathetic.
    Warren Zevon - Excitable Boy
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZokPAuhD6k

    Live performance
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDlpETyqweE
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,070

    glw said:

    I'm really struggling to understand the wisdom of Starmer's Brexit position. He has ruled out almost everything Remainers want as a sop, and left himself essentially arguing for a harder Brexit than many Brexiteers support. This has the feel of something that is going to end up biting Starmer on the arse, probably after he weakens his promises to appease Labour supporters, and ends up with the Tories saying "he's going to rejoin the EU". He could have said "we'll do better" without painting himself into a corner.

    Perhaps he's repeating what some see as Theresa May's mistake of trying to hard to make up for having been a Remainer.
    Suspect the goal is to draw a line - as with the pledge to resign if sanctioned re: Durham. And that, however tempting, he is not attempting to go backwards.

    Don't know what the alternatives to Single Market are exactly - or generally for that matter - except to think, there must be some options between all or nothing at all?

    Plus suspect that internal polling may show that this is the way & position to draw the line, to achieve maximum gain for minimum loss and thus tip the balance in positive (for Labour & Starmer) direction.

    With equation being something like this:
    > ex old Labour red-wallers will be more pleased than
    > new Labour Remainers will be displeased esp. as many of them ain't hard-shell Remainiacs
    > blue-wall Tory waverers and other swing voters who want to move on will also be pleased.




    Just a theory.
    Agree.

    Yes, lots of ripe middle ground to harvest: on labour, a more liberal visa system helps plug skills shortages and attract talented young people.

    On goods, more regulatory equivalence helps.

    Lots you can do.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,425
    Three strong gin and tonics in the chic outdoor bar of Cetinje’s best hotel, in the main square, cost me £9.80

    Yes

    Love this town
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,425
    In what parallel universe does a really good gin and tonic in the al fresco bar of a 5 star hotel in the centre of a pretty, historic capital city of a beautiful Mediterranean country cost…. £3.30?
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,623
    Leon said:

    In what parallel universe does a really good gin and tonic in the al fresco bar of a 5 star hotel in the centre of a pretty, historic capital city of a beautiful Mediterranean country cost…. £3.30?

    Be sure to check out the Relief Map of Montenegro while you're in town.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Government minister openly attacking his own government’s policy 👇 https://twitter.com/greghands/status/1544032775191289856

    I doubt it will be long before some senior Labour remainer breaks with Starmer's fence-sitting, either.
    I think Starmer is outright lying on the EU

    He does not expect a majority (rightly); if he gains power it will be with the help of the Libs and maybe other minor parties. The smaller parties will demand a move to the SM and CU, in some form. Korma will sigh and reluctantly agree, for the good of the nation and to prevent a Tory govt

    Politically, highly astute. Morally, very questionable
    Can't see it. SM and CU membership aren't things you can just pick off the shelf - it will probably require years of negotiation. Sir Keir won't want to get bogged down by all that in a hung parliament with the Tories ready to play the 'Labour Cancelled Brexit' card at the next GE. Sir Keir will want to shelve the Brexit stuff and, ideally, leave it to a Tory successor of Boris to sort out.
    Fair, but I am trying to picture the pressures there will be, on Starmer, to move towards the EU

    Labour might be a one term govt. It could be their only chance to reverse a chunk of Brexit, and many on his side are DESPERATE to do that

    We shall see
    TELEGRAPH:
    Sir Keir Starmer is facing a Labour revolt over Brexit after he vowed not to take Britain back into the Single Market.

    In a keynote speech on Britain’s future outside the European Union, Sir Keir pledged to “make Brexit work” and said he would not seek to join the Single Market or a customs union.

    But before he had even delivered his remarks, the Labour leader faced a backlash from within his own ranks, with Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, openly contradicting him.


    A beautifully orchestrated artificial row, to highlight Starmer as being a commanding leader.
    Couldn't he have chosen something slightly less crucial? It's taken roughly four years to establish beyond reasonable doubt that Brexit was a vanity project for the extreme right that has failed spectacularly causing a mayhem few believed they would ever see in their lifetimes?

    It seems almost unimaginably stupid for an opposition party leading in the polls to be jumping aboard the Johnson/Farage Red Brexit Bus at a time like this
    Oh, I agree. I think Starmer wants to wait for public opinion to catch up with him, but he could easily be overtaken by it, and be preaching Brexit to a crowd that has changed its mind by 2024.

    When Kirsty asks J R-M how changing the roadsigns on the Dartford tunnel is going to improve peoples lives Labour can surely see the opportunity for ridicule they're throwing away?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,425

    Leon said:

    In what parallel universe does a really good gin and tonic in the al fresco bar of a 5 star hotel in the centre of a pretty, historic capital city of a beautiful Mediterranean country cost…. £3.30?

    Be sure to check out the Relief Map of Montenegro while you're in town.
    So you’ve actually been here? Impressed! It’s a long way from Seattle
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,623
    edited July 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In what parallel universe does a really good gin and tonic in the al fresco bar of a 5 star hotel in the centre of a pretty, historic capital city of a beautiful Mediterranean country cost…. £3.30?

    Be sure to check out the Relief Map of Montenegro while you're in town.
    So you’ve actually been here? Impressed! It’s a long way from Seattle
    I just saw it on the Cetinje tourist map! Yours is my sole - and solely virtual - visit.

    Part of the world that's always sparked my interest. Ever since I ran into this:

    “Little Montenegro! He lifted up the words and nodded at them-with his smile. The smile comprehended Montenegro’s troubled history and sympathized with the brave struggles of the Montenegrin people. It appreciated fully the chain of national circumstances, which had elicited this tribute from Montenegro’s warm little heart.” ― F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby

    Addendum - referring to the medal awarded to Gatsby by King of Montenegro (soon to be ex-King) for G's WWI military service.

    AND definitely heard of the place long before I learned of existence of Rick Steves . . .
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,425

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In what parallel universe does a really good gin and tonic in the al fresco bar of a 5 star hotel in the centre of a pretty, historic capital city of a beautiful Mediterranean country cost…. £3.30?

    Be sure to check out the Relief Map of Montenegro while you're in town.
    So you’ve actually been here? Impressed! It’s a long way from Seattle
    I just saw it on the Cetinje tourist map! Yours is my sole - and solely virtual - visit.

    Part of the world that's always sparked my interest. Ever since I ran into this:

    “Little Montenegro! He lifted up the words and nodded at them-with his smile. The smile comprehended Montenegro’s troubled history and sympathized with the brave struggles of the Montenegrin people. It appreciated fully the chain of national circumstances, which had elicited this tribute from Montenegro’s warm little heart.” ― F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby

    Addendum - referring to the medal awarded to Gatsby by King of Montenegro (soon to be ex-King) for G's WWI military service.

    AND definitely heard of the place long before I learned of existence of Rick Steves . . .
    I’m lying here in bed listening to the 1am bell of Cetinje’s ancient monastery. It’s fab

    But I must sleep. Cricket tomorrow, and maybe lunch at the “National Restoran”
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,477
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Government minister openly attacking his own government’s policy 👇 https://twitter.com/greghands/status/1544032775191289856

    I doubt it will be long before some senior Labour remainer breaks with Starmer's fence-sitting, either.
    I think Starmer is outright lying on the EU

    He does not expect a majority (rightly); if he gains power it will be with the help of the Libs and maybe other minor parties. The smaller parties will demand a move to the SM and CU, in some form. Korma will sigh and reluctantly agree, for the good of the nation and to prevent a Tory govt

    Politically, highly astute. Morally, very questionable
    Ah yes, the David Cameron approach to Europe, rely on your coalition partner to force you to change your avowed policy... How did that one work out again?
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    edited July 2022
    Ukraine: I said it a couple of weeks ago, Russia is winning. Bear in mind they will not stop at the Donbas and the Ukrainian casualty rate in Luhansk is such that there is a very live danger of that defensive front cracking. The Ukrainian tactic of using recently donated long range systems to hit Russian logistics is now open to question given that threat. Given that the Russians have flattened much of the land in front of them, the Ukrainians may consider direct heavy fire on the front lines at Luhansk a more appropriate use to send the invaders backward.

    Parochially, I'd be disapponited to see Starmer go. May not be a Labour voter but I dont think he is a bad case or a nut case like his predecessor. He seems to get the need to get Labour towards the centre. He isnt going to win on sheer personality, so policy it is. Given the issues facing the country, thats not a bad approach and public are I am sure a bit tired of Boris, even after all his foibles are considered baked in to their mental calculus. Too much circus.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,803
    O/T

    Turned up at Wimbledon at 8:15pm while matches were still going on, with thousands of people already leaving and walking back to the train station. The stewards said it was too late to enter the grounds. Apparently there were empty seats in the stadiums at the time.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,114
    Yokes said:

    Ukraine: I said it a couple of weeks ago, Russia is winning. Bear in mind they will not stop at the Donbas and the Ukrainian casualty rate in Luhansk is such that there is a very live danger of that defensive front cracking. The Ukrainian tactic of using recently donated long range systems to hit Russian logistics is now open to question given that threat. Given that the Russians have flattened much of the land in front of them, the Ukrainians may consider direct heavy fire on the front lines at Luhansk a more appropriate use to send the invaders backward.

    Do you think they will try to besiege Kyiv again?
  • Options
    PensfoldPensfold Posts: 191
    It doesn't matter what the Conservative members think of Ben Wallace. If the Conservative MPs don't vote him in the top two then he won't go forward to the members vote.
  • Options
    PensfoldPensfold Posts: 191

    Yokes said:

    Ukraine: I said it a couple of weeks ago, Russia is winning. Bear in mind they will not stop at the Donbas and the Ukrainian casualty rate in Luhansk is such that there is a very live danger of that defensive front cracking. The Ukrainian tactic of using recently donated long range systems to hit Russian logistics is now open to question given that threat. Given that the Russians have flattened much of the land in front of them, the Ukrainians may consider direct heavy fire on the front lines at Luhansk a more appropriate use to send the invaders backward.

    Do you think they will try to besiege Kyiv again?
    Putin would like to have another go at Kiev if he can persuade his generals to do so.
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202

    Yokes said:

    Ukraine: I said it a couple of weeks ago, Russia is winning. Bear in mind they will not stop at the Donbas and the Ukrainian casualty rate in Luhansk is such that there is a very live danger of that defensive front cracking. The Ukrainian tactic of using recently donated long range systems to hit Russian logistics is now open to question given that threat. Given that the Russians have flattened much of the land in front of them, the Ukrainians may consider direct heavy fire on the front lines at Luhansk a more appropriate use to send the invaders backward.

    Do you think they will try to besiege Kyiv again?
    No, they will try to take it if they can. The question is can they get that far. The Russian aim is still as it was: Take control of Ukraine. Only what constitutes an acceptable win, and therefore an off ramp, has changed.
  • Options
    PensfoldPensfold Posts: 191

    Yikes!!!


    Mark M Bathgate
    @m_bathgate
    ·
    5h
    This is the price of UK natural gas for this winter compared to the last 5 years - close to 900% higher now. This would take the average UK utility bill to around £4000. The energy crisis is getting worse fast and the UK government is completely asleep at the wheel. 😬

    https://twitter.com/m_bathgate/status/1543971202435276800

    My apologies to Brenda, but the United Kingdom desperately needs a General Election. We can't wait till January 2025.
    What, another one.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,019
    Foxy said:

    So Starmer doesn't want to rejoin the SM and CU. Does he have a plan to diverge on anything? Come to think of it do the government?

    On the war in Ukraine, some of the commentary is getting a little hesitant with regards to the costs of support for Ukraine. For instance with a billion pounds you could build two hospitals. Well let me do a back of the fag packet calculation. The economic output of the Nato countries must be $40tn. So if each country was prepared to borrow an extra 0.5% of GDP for one year that would be $200bn dollars. National debt would for example be 75.5% rather than 75%. I'm not sure what exactly you would get for $200bn dollars but I imagine it would be quite a lot.

    Would that additional debt and interest payments not be a price worth paying for outright Russian defeat or at the very least security on Europe's eastern border?

    The destruction of the reputation and offensive ability of the Russian army is money well spent. A bit tough on East Ukraine and its people, but by this time next year there will be no external threat to Europe, and a thoroughly declawed, rather mangy Russian bear.
    The Russian defence industry is 8% of the economy and it's running flat out fueled by the massive $200bn+ budget surplus. Within the constraints of available human resources and Western electronics the mega factories like Uralvagonzavod are cranking the gear out.

    This time next year, the Russian armed forces will be be equipped with simpler and less variety of equipment with a lot of Chinese/Indian/Israeli electronics but there is no doubt there will be a lot of it.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,517
    Brock Adams was worse than a creep: "Kari Tupper, the daughter of a longtime friend, accused Adams of drugging and assaulting her in 1987.[7][8]

    In 1992 eight women made statements to The Seattle Times alleging that Adams had committed various acts of sexual misconduct, including sexual assault, molestation and rape.[9] Multiple women said they were drugged after being served suspicious drinks and either assaulted or raped.[10]"

    Though probably the worst of the bunch, he wasn't alone at the time: "In 2020, an extensive PBS exposé concerning the workplace for women in the 1990s in Washington, D.C., described the climate of "sexual harassment and sexual entitlement [that] existed in some offices in the Senate", driven by some male senators whose behavior was well known on Capitol Hill. There was a list of congressmen that young women were told to keep away from, which included Adams, Bob Packwood, John Conyers, Jr., Gus Savage, Mel Reynolds, Strom Thurmond and Ted Kennedy."
    (Two Republicans and five Democrats, for those keeping score.)
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brock_Adams
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,517
    Changing the subject to a more pleasant one: In my area, hats are worn in the winter -- and by East Asian women in the summer.

    Were I living in an area where there were many black churches I would often see women wearing beautiful hats, especially around Easter.

    (That's one of the amny details they get right in the American TV series, "In the Heat of the Night".)
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,803

    Changing the subject to a more pleasant one: In my area, hats are worn in the winter -- and by East Asian women in the summer.

    Were I living in an area where there were many black churches I would often see women wearing beautiful hats, especially around Easter.

    (That's one of the amny details they get right in the American TV series, "In the Heat of the Night".)

    Which area?
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,517
    Andy_JS - I live in a Seattle suburb near Microsoft's headquarters, and, more recently, within a few blocks of growiing Google set of office buildings.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,114
    Now a shooting in Philadelphia.

    @CBSPhilly
    BREAKING: Two police officers have been shot in the area of the Ben Franklin Parkway during Philadelphia's Fourth of July festivities.


    https://twitter.com/CBSPhilly/status/1544145134744473602
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,476
    Foxy said:

    Yikes!!!


    Mark M Bathgate
    @m_bathgate
    ·
    5h
    This is the price of UK natural gas for this winter compared to the last 5 years - close to 900% higher now. This would take the average UK utility bill to around £4000. The energy crisis is getting worse fast and the UK government is completely asleep at the wheel. 😬

    https://twitter.com/m_bathgate/status/1543971202435276800

    I don't recognise those figures. According to the futures exchanges, it's "only" up ~4x.

    Oh, I see the graph actually shows 8x, but 4x in the last year (i.e. the main trading period). I actually don't know what proportion of the UK's domestic supply for December has already been bought.
    It will have interesting economic effects when the price drops, either through Russian defeat or alternative sources covering the gap. Sometime off methinks.
    Political effects too, including outcries against the now more expensive tariffs the energy companies have moved people onto.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,476
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    Turned up at Wimbledon at 8:15pm while matches were still going on, with thousands of people already leaving and walking back to the train station. The stewards said it was too late to enter the grounds. Apparently there were empty seats in the stadiums at the time.

    Sorry to hear that. Wimbledon had blamed electronic ticketing for complicating resale to late entrants, though perhaps in this case they were worried about people trying to get in when play ends and thousands leave en masse.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,476
    kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jesus H, the Republicans can’t even do basic maths now.

    https://twitter.com/santiagomayer_/status/1543983844059222017

    I wonder how many people reading it think it is ok? I wonder if anyone here does?
    Perhaps it is deliberate shitposting in order to provoke debate and sharing by those who would ridicule the innumeracy, yet spreading the message of inflation under Biden.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,476
    ICYMI and @ydoethur

    Yesterday's adjournment debate on teaching medieval history in schools is in Hansard at
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-07-04/debates/DBA5772A-664F-4F24-A2D8-7F5F5FD4E4D8/MedievalHistoryInSchools
    and on parliamentary telly for your video-watching pleasure at
    https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/c4670598-8660-4748-acd9-b07436a809a1?in=21:41:01
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325
    NEW THREAD
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