After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
I think there is a big difference between their view of the English and the government of the UK. Perfidious Albion is back in the historical mind because successive governments have been shown to refuse to negotiate in good faith and keep their word on agreements made. I'm certain they have no issue with the people or, more importantly, the businesses based in the UK. It is the inability to trust the government: partly because of this Conservative party, but also partly because the constitutional demand our parliament has to rip up any agreement it makes at any time it wants without recourse.
But that is seen as an English trait, one shared by all of us. They hate us as a people, a concept.
Hmm, there was a rather obvious snag in SKS's speech:
Mr Blackford (quoted in Graun feed):
'The Labour Party are now indistinguishable from the Tories on Brexit. By running scared of the Tories and mutating into a pale imitation of Boris Johnson, Starmer is offering no real change at all.
With this hard Brexit U-turn Keir Starmer has perfectly encapsulated why Scotland needs to escape from Westminster control. Regaining Scotland’s place in Europe will be at the heart of the independence referendum.'
(and, of course, this recalls the broken promises of 2014, from *both* Unionist parties in chorus)
This is why Scotland would oppose England rejoining the EU. There would be an element of English control with MEPs and Commissioners - and English voters - having an (albeit diluted) say in Scots affairs. The Scots don’t want to leave one Union with England to join another. Then there would be the inability to stop the English flooding Scotland. That’s why there would be a veto. You can’t divorce the English and then move into a shared house with them. Blackford has said, basically, an Indie Scotland is would veto the application of the rUK.
I'm not sure I buy this argument. Union with England in the UK is an entirely different proposition to membership with England and 28 other countries in the EU
Hmm, there was a rather obvious snag in SKS's speech:
Mr Blackford (quoted in Graun feed):
'The Labour Party are now indistinguishable from the Tories on Brexit. By running scared of the Tories and mutating into a pale imitation of Boris Johnson, Starmer is offering no real change at all.
With this hard Brexit U-turn Keir Starmer has perfectly encapsulated why Scotland needs to escape from Westminster control. Regaining Scotland’s place in Europe will be at the heart of the independence referendum.'
(and, of course, this recalls the broken promises of 2014, from *both* Unionist parties in chorus)
This is why Scotland would oppose England rejoining the EU. There would be an element of English control with MEPs and Commissioners - and English voters - having an (albeit diluted) say in Scots affairs. The Scots don’t want to leave one Union with England to join another. Then there would be the inability to stop the English flooding Scotland. That’s why there would be a veto. You can’t divorce the English and then move into a shared house with them. Blackford has said, basically, an Indie Scotland is would veto the application of the rUK.
As opposed to Berlin and Brussels having a say over Scotland which would be inevitable if Scotland was allowed an official independence referendum and voted Yes and it rejoined the EU, especially with the Euro
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
Al Murray does a podcast series on WWII (“we have ways…”), but be prepared for him and his fellow presenter’s staggering level of WWII nerdery as to the minutiae of the various guns, trucks and tanks involved in each respective conflict…
Hmm, there was a rather obvious snag in SKS's speech:
Mr Blackford (quoted in Graun feed):
'The Labour Party are now indistinguishable from the Tories on Brexit. By running scared of the Tories and mutating into a pale imitation of Boris Johnson, Starmer is offering no real change at all.
With this hard Brexit U-turn Keir Starmer has perfectly encapsulated why Scotland needs to escape from Westminster control. Regaining Scotland’s place in Europe will be at the heart of the independence referendum.'
(and, of course, this recalls the broken promises of 2014, from *both* Unionist parties in chorus)
This is why Scotland would oppose England rejoining the EU. There would be an element of English control with MEPs and Commissioners - and English voters - having an (albeit diluted) say in Scots affairs. The Scots don’t want to leave one Union with England to join another. Then there would be the inability to stop the English flooding Scotland. That’s why there would be a veto. You can’t divorce the English and then move into a shared house with them. Blackford has said, basically, an Indie Scotland is would veto the application of the rUK.
I think you're missing the point of the EU and Scottish Independence. The Nats do not rankle at the English having any say in their affairs - they rankle at having English priorities overshadow their priorities in their own governance. If Scotland and England were both, separately, in the EU this wouldn't be an issue. Yes, England would have the power to veto Scottish wants, but the Scots would have a veto on English needs as well. It would be equalising between the countries, rather than the system we have now where a very English centric Westminster has a huge amount of power over Scotland.
Hmm, there was a rather obvious snag in SKS's speech:
Mr Blackford (quoted in Graun feed):
'The Labour Party are now indistinguishable from the Tories on Brexit. By running scared of the Tories and mutating into a pale imitation of Boris Johnson, Starmer is offering no real change at all.
With this hard Brexit U-turn Keir Starmer has perfectly encapsulated why Scotland needs to escape from Westminster control. Regaining Scotland’s place in Europe will be at the heart of the independence referendum.'
(and, of course, this recalls the broken promises of 2014, from *both* Unionist parties in chorus)
This is why Scotland would oppose England rejoining the EU. There would be an element of English control with MEPs and Commissioners - and English voters - having an (albeit diluted) say in Scots affairs. The Scots don’t want to leave one Union with England to join another. Then there would be the inability to stop the English flooding Scotland. That’s why there would be a veto. You can’t divorce the English and then move into a shared house with them. Blackford has said, basically, an Indie Scotland is would veto the application of the rUK.
Might as well start planning the star forts and unrolling the razor wire if you take that view.
Presumably Blackford will be taking this approach with all international bodies of which the UK is currently a member.
Hmm, there was a rather obvious snag in SKS's speech:
Mr Blackford (quoted in Graun feed):
'The Labour Party are now indistinguishable from the Tories on Brexit. By running scared of the Tories and mutating into a pale imitation of Boris Johnson, Starmer is offering no real change at all.
With this hard Brexit U-turn Keir Starmer has perfectly encapsulated why Scotland needs to escape from Westminster control. Regaining Scotland’s place in Europe will be at the heart of the independence referendum.'
(and, of course, this recalls the broken promises of 2014, from *both* Unionist parties in chorus)
This is why Scotland would oppose England rejoining the EU. There would be an element of English control with MEPs and Commissioners - and English voters - having an (albeit diluted) say in Scots affairs. The Scots don’t want to leave one Union with England to join another. Then there would be the inability to stop the English flooding Scotland. That’s why there would be a veto. You can’t divorce the English and then move into a shared house with them. Blackford has said, basically, an Indie Scotland is would veto the application of the rUK.
I really cannot imagine that - especially in the very heavily diluted form. It really does not follow at all. But I cannot argue with you if that is your personal perspective.
Most countries do not “hate” England or Britain. No more than “hate” the US, France, Germany, Russia, China, Japan, or other countries that have thrown their weight around in history.
Actually if you look at soft power measures by Pew etc, the UK does well.
What’s also true though is that the UK (and English) reputation in Brussels and other European capitals has been trashed by the Brexiters, chiefly Johnson.
Get rid of the Johnson and the problem starts to abate; look at Obama-era US for example compared with before and after.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
I think there is a big difference between their view of the English and the government of the UK. Perfidious Albion is back in the historical mind because successive governments have been shown to refuse to negotiate in good faith and keep their word on agreements made. I'm certain they have no issue with the people or, more importantly, the businesses based in the UK. It is the inability to trust the government: partly because of this Conservative party, but also partly because the constitutional demand our parliament has to rip up any agreement it makes at any time it wants without recourse.
But that is seen as an English trait, one shared by all of us. They hate us as a people, a concept.
I see no evidence of this. Again, a trait of our governance and, possibly, our ruling class? There has been much written about that. But a trait of all English people? Not that I've seen.
Hmm, there was a rather obvious snag in SKS's speech:
Mr Blackford (quoted in Graun feed):
'The Labour Party are now indistinguishable from the Tories on Brexit. By running scared of the Tories and mutating into a pale imitation of Boris Johnson, Starmer is offering no real change at all.
With this hard Brexit U-turn Keir Starmer has perfectly encapsulated why Scotland needs to escape from Westminster control. Regaining Scotland’s place in Europe will be at the heart of the independence referendum.'
(and, of course, this recalls the broken promises of 2014, from *both* Unionist parties in chorus)
This is why Scotland would oppose England rejoining the EU. There would be an element of English control with MEPs and Commissioners - and English voters - having an (albeit diluted) say in Scots affairs. The Scots don’t want to leave one Union with England to join another. Then there would be the inability to stop the English flooding Scotland. That’s why there would be a veto. You can’t divorce the English and then move into a shared house with them. Blackford has said, basically, an Indie Scotland is would veto the application of the rUK.
I think you're missing the point of the EU and Scottish Independence. The Nats do not rankle at the English having any say in their affairs - they rankle at having English priorities overshadow their priorities in their own governance. If Scotland and England were both, separately, in the EU this wouldn't be an issue. Yes, England would have the power to veto Scottish wants, but the Scots would have a veto on English needs as well. It would be equalising between the countries, rather than the system we have now where a very English centric Westminster has a huge amount of power over Scotland.
Hmm, there was a rather obvious snag in SKS's speech:
Mr Blackford (quoted in Graun feed):
'The Labour Party are now indistinguishable from the Tories on Brexit. By running scared of the Tories and mutating into a pale imitation of Boris Johnson, Starmer is offering no real change at all.
With this hard Brexit U-turn Keir Starmer has perfectly encapsulated why Scotland needs to escape from Westminster control. Regaining Scotland’s place in Europe will be at the heart of the independence referendum.'
(and, of course, this recalls the broken promises of 2014, from *both* Unionist parties in chorus)
This is why Scotland would oppose England rejoining the EU. There would be an element of English control with MEPs and Commissioners - and English voters - having an (albeit diluted) say in Scots affairs. The Scots don’t want to leave one Union with England to join another. Then there would be the inability to stop the English flooding Scotland. That’s why there would be a veto. You can’t divorce the English and then move into a shared house with them. Blackford has said, basically, an Indie Scotland is would veto the application of the rUK.
I'm not sure I buy this argument. Union with England in the UK is an entirely different proposition to membership with England and 28 other countries in the EU
It’s about identity. The Scots need and want space from their geopolitical and ancestral enemy. They would be forced to cooperate and be friendly with England and the English in the EU. Further there would be no opportunity to stop the English moving there.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
I agree we are never going back, but the EU would be insane if they didn't welcome us back into a friction free trading area that includes FOM. When the alternative is Johnsonian chaos, breaching international treaties and subduing our own and EU reciprocal trade I believe they would bite our hand off.
If this capitulation to RedWall morons is the best Labour can do we might as well continue voting Johnson just for the giggles.
Why? Why would they want us in the SM? There’s no benefit in having England in it. Better to get the Scots in and the Welsh and choke England economically and strategically until it’s an unviable entity. No more England, no more English = no more Johnson’s. Everyone’s happy.
Peace in Ireland and the words to the "Song Of Patriotic Prejudice" by Flanders and Swann.
As one minor concession to DougSeal I will say there is probably an ultra-federalist - chiefly French speaking - cadre inside Brussels that hate and fear the British.
I don’t think they were very influential though until Brexit.
Hmm, there was a rather obvious snag in SKS's speech:
Mr Blackford (quoted in Graun feed):
'The Labour Party are now indistinguishable from the Tories on Brexit. By running scared of the Tories and mutating into a pale imitation of Boris Johnson, Starmer is offering no real change at all.
With this hard Brexit U-turn Keir Starmer has perfectly encapsulated why Scotland needs to escape from Westminster control. Regaining Scotland’s place in Europe will be at the heart of the independence referendum.'
(and, of course, this recalls the broken promises of 2014, from *both* Unionist parties in chorus)
This is why Scotland would oppose England rejoining the EU. There would be an element of English control with MEPs and Commissioners - and English voters - having an (albeit diluted) say in Scots affairs. The Scots don’t want to leave one Union with England to join another. Then there would be the inability to stop the English flooding Scotland. That’s why there would be a veto. You can’t divorce the English and then move into a shared house with them. Blackford has said, basically, an Indie Scotland is would veto the application of the rUK.
I think you're missing the point of the EU and Scottish Independence. The Nats do not rankle at the English having any say in their affairs - they rankle at having English priorities overshadow their priorities in their own governance. If Scotland and England were both, separately, in the EU this wouldn't be an issue. Yes, England would have the power to veto Scottish wants, but the Scots would have a veto on English needs as well. It would be equalising between the countries, rather than the system we have now where a very English centric Westminster has a huge amount of power over Scotland.
In the EU and eurozone especially it would be of course Frankfurt and Berlin dictating economic policy to both, as Greece discovered
FINALLY people start to protest. I assume things will rumble along through the summer until the days start drawing in and the weather gets cooler.
Then the riots start.
Whilst I am always in favour of protest, especially disruptive ones, I am surprised about the method of protest here. Slowly driving around the motorway, unnecessarily using your petrol, to protest the cost of petrol seems a bit more of a hinderance to yourself than anyone else. If they blocked roads or refused to buy petrol that would make more sense, but they're literally paying for more petrol to protest the price of petrol. It's like those people who buy a product only to burn it - the company already has your money, so your protest is actively counter productive.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
I agree we are never going back, but the EU would be insane if they didn't welcome us back into a friction free trading area that includes FOM. When the alternative is Johnsonian chaos, breaching international treaties and subduing our own and EU reciprocal trade I believe they would bite our hand off.
If this capitulation to RedWall morons is the best Labour can do we might as well continue voting Johnson just for the giggles.
Why? Why would they want us in the SM? There’s no benefit in having England in it. Better to get the Scots in and the Welsh and choke England economically and strategically until it’s an unviable entity. No more England, no more English = no more Johnson’s. Everyone’s happy.
Do you genuinely think that the European Union wouldn't jump at the chance of having the world's fifth largest economy (and if the UK split, England would still be top 10 on its own) moving back into its orbit purely out of spite? You've parroted this line out all day but bureaucracy doesn't see emotion. Any member state that opposed for political point scoring would be bullied into line as well.
As it happens, I don't agree with us rejoining the SM or the CU. I think it would cement long term decline as we'd be signing up to follow rules we didn't have any real say in making, although I'd be open to concessions including FOM if it made things easier outside the SM or CU as I was never against things like FOM. The best deal we could have had with the EU was the one we had, but that ship has long sailed and if we can't have a say in the decisions that are made, we should keep the EU at arms length.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
I agree we are never going back, but the EU would be insane if they didn't welcome us back into a friction free trading area that includes FOM. When the alternative is Johnsonian chaos, breaching international treaties and subduing our own and EU reciprocal trade I believe they would bite our hand off.
If this capitulation to RedWall morons is the best Labour can do we might as well continue voting Johnson just for the giggles.
Why? Why would they want us in the SM? There’s no benefit in having England in it. Better to get the Scots in and the Welsh and choke England economically and strategically until it’s an unviable entity. No more England, no more English = no more Johnson’s. Everyone’s happy.
Wales voted for Brexit, just like England.
Most UK exports go outside the EU now and you don't need to be in the single market to have a trade deal with the EU either, as the current UK and EU trade deal proves
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
FINALLY people start to protest. I assume things will rumble along through the summer until the days start drawing in and the weather gets cooler.
Then the riots start.
Whilst I am always in favour of protest, especially disruptive ones, I am surprised about the method of protest here. Slowly driving around the motorway, unnecessarily using your petrol, to protest the cost of petrol seems a bit more of a hinderance to yourself than anyone else. If they blocked roads or refused to buy petrol that would make more sense, but they're literally paying for more petrol to protest the price of petrol. It's like those people who buy a product only to burn it - the company already has your money, so your protest is actively counter productive.
The point of the protest is to gain attention and therefore increase pressure on the government to do something. First part of that worked.
Hmm, there was a rather obvious snag in SKS's speech:
Mr Blackford (quoted in Graun feed):
'The Labour Party are now indistinguishable from the Tories on Brexit. By running scared of the Tories and mutating into a pale imitation of Boris Johnson, Starmer is offering no real change at all.
With this hard Brexit U-turn Keir Starmer has perfectly encapsulated why Scotland needs to escape from Westminster control. Regaining Scotland’s place in Europe will be at the heart of the independence referendum.'
(and, of course, this recalls the broken promises of 2014, from *both* Unionist parties in chorus)
This is why Scotland would oppose England rejoining the EU. There would be an element of English control with MEPs and Commissioners - and English voters - having an (albeit diluted) say in Scots affairs. The Scots don’t want to leave one Union with England to join another. Then there would be the inability to stop the English flooding Scotland. That’s why there would be a veto. You can’t divorce the English and then move into a shared house with them. Blackford has said, basically, an Indie Scotland is would veto the application of the rUK.
I think you're missing the point of the EU and Scottish Independence. The Nats do not rankle at the English having any say in their affairs - they rankle at having English priorities overshadow their priorities in their own governance. If Scotland and England were both, separately, in the EU this wouldn't be an issue. Yes, England would have the power to veto Scottish wants, but the Scots would have a veto on English needs as well. It would be equalising between the countries, rather than the system we have now where a very English centric Westminster has a huge amount of power over Scotland.
That's it - spot on.
The relationship between Scotland and rUK will be like Israel and Iran. Do you think that either would fail to veto an attempt by the other to join a putative Middle East Union? And then there’s the problem of cross border immigration - how do the Scots keep the English out with FOM? It would be impossible.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I’m not saying we don’t deserve to be hated. I’m just saying we are hated - as you appear to concede. Deservedly so perhaps. The Scots and Irish hate us the most of course.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I’m not saying we don’t deserve to be hated. I’m just saying we are hated - as you appear to concede. Deservedly so perhaps. The Scots and Irish hate us the most of course.
Are you not conflating sporting rivalry with international politics?
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
I agree we are never going back, but the EU would be insane if they didn't welcome us back into a friction free trading area that includes FOM. When the alternative is Johnsonian chaos, breaching international treaties and subduing our own and EU reciprocal trade I believe they would bite our hand off.
If this capitulation to RedWall morons is the best Labour can do we might as well continue voting Johnson just for the giggles.
Why? Why would they want us in the SM? There’s no benefit in having England in it. Better to get the Scots in and the Welsh and choke England economically and strategically until it’s an unviable entity. No more England, no more English = no more Johnson’s. Everyone’s happy.
Do you genuinely think that the European Union wouldn't jump at the chance of having the world's fifth largest economy (and if the UK split, England would still be top 10 on its own) moving back into its orbit purely out of spite? You've parroted this line out all day but bureaucracy doesn't see emotion. Any member state that opposed for political point scoring would be bullied into line as well.
As it happens, I don't agree with us rejoining the SM or the CU. I think it would cement long term decline as we'd be signing up to follow rules we didn't have any real say in making, although I'd be open to concessions including FOM if it made things easier outside the SM or CU as I was never against things like FOM. The best deal we could have had with the EU was the one we had, but that ship has long sailed and if we can't have a say in the decisions that are made, we should keep the EU at arms length.
Yes. I do. They’ve keep out Turkey for less justified reasons.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I’m not saying we don’t deserve to be hated. I’m just saying we are hated - as you appear to concede. Deservedly so perhaps. The Scots and Irish hate us the most of course.
Are you not conflating sporting rivalry with international politics?
It’s not even politics. It’s a personal, visceral, emotional thing.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I do think this is part of the English psyche - that accepting empire was bad for the countries invaded by the UK means that they must hate us. I don't think any of these places hate us, they just know the history of imperialism. The UK is has such a fantabulous and childish view of it's own role in world history that any level of acceptance of how bad the empire was by other countries is, in turn, internalised by us as hatred of us now. Similar to how many right wing Americans can't accept criticism of the US of the past without it hurting their feelings about the US of the present or their own individual identity.
Hmm, there was a rather obvious snag in SKS's speech:
Mr Blackford (quoted in Graun feed):
'The Labour Party are now indistinguishable from the Tories on Brexit. By running scared of the Tories and mutating into a pale imitation of Boris Johnson, Starmer is offering no real change at all.
With this hard Brexit U-turn Keir Starmer has perfectly encapsulated why Scotland needs to escape from Westminster control. Regaining Scotland’s place in Europe will be at the heart of the independence referendum.'
(and, of course, this recalls the broken promises of 2014, from *both* Unionist parties in chorus)
This is why Scotland would oppose England rejoining the EU. There would be an element of English control with MEPs and Commissioners - and English voters - having an (albeit diluted) say in Scots affairs. The Scots don’t want to leave one Union with England to join another. Then there would be the inability to stop the English flooding Scotland. That’s why there would be a veto. You can’t divorce the English and then move into a shared house with them. Blackford has said, basically, an Indie Scotland is would veto the application of the rUK.
Might as well start planning the star forts and unrolling the razor wire if you take that view.
Presumably Blackford will be taking this approach with all international bodies of which the UK is currently a member.
Probably. Border controls are clearly going to happen whatever. Some sort of fence will have to be installed.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
Not really, even in 2017 51% people in 18 nations surveyed viewed the UK favourably, with 48% viewing the EU favourably.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
Not really, even in 2017 51% people in 18 nations surveyed viewed the UK favourably, with 48% viewing the EU favourably.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
The only place I have encountered anti-English feeling IN PERSON AND AT ME - is Scotland. Ironically
But not often, and even then I might have been to blame for at least one - being a typical loud drunk arrogant Londoner.
Everywhere else I have encountered the normal kindness of human beings greeting a stranger, from Ireland to Italy, from Mexico to Madagascar
There are some places where they are deeply curious or notably positive about English people. In the USA they love the accent (a cliche but true). In remote spots they love the chance to talk English with an actual English person. Etc
However some CULTURES have a tinge of Anglophobia. Ireland definitely. India a bit. Australia also (tho there it is complexly mixed with a great amount of affection and familial loyalty as well)
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I do think this is part of the English psyche - that accepting empire was bad for the countries invaded by the UK means that they must hate us. I don't think any of these places hate us, they just know the history of imperialism. The UK is has such a fantabulous and childish view of it's own role in world history that any level of acceptance of how bad the empire was by other countries is, in turn, internalised by us as hatred of us now. Similar to how many right wing Americans can't accept criticism of the US of the past without it hurting their feelings about the US of the present or their own individual identity.
Difficult to have much sympathy with the first guy. Wants to live in Cornwall but work in London for a London wage. Don't we all? Presumably a property in each?
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
Not really, even in 2017 51% people in 18 nations surveyed viewed the UK favourably, with 48% viewing the EU favourably.
FINALLY people start to protest. I assume things will rumble along through the summer until the days start drawing in and the weather gets cooler.
Then the riots start.
Whilst I am always in favour of protest, especially disruptive ones, I am surprised about the method of protest here. Slowly driving around the motorway, unnecessarily using your petrol, to protest the cost of petrol seems a bit more of a hinderance to yourself than anyone else. If they blocked roads or refused to buy petrol that would make more sense, but they're literally paying for more petrol to protest the price of petrol. It's like those people who buy a product only to burn it - the company already has your money, so your protest is actively counter productive.
The point of the protest is to gain attention and therefore increase pressure on the government to do something. First part of that worked.
Possibly. But from a purely market point of view, they are rewarding the market for the high prices (if I understand correctly this is a rolling blockade of people driving in their cars, and therefore paying the price of the fuel they are protesting being too high). If they stole that fuel, then I am back saying it is probably an effective act of rebellion.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I do think this is part of the English psyche - that accepting empire was bad for the countries invaded by the UK means that they must hate us. I don't think any of these places hate us, they just know the history of imperialism. The UK is has such a fantabulous and childish view of it's own role in world history that any level of acceptance of how bad the empire was by other countries is, in turn, internalised by us as hatred of us now. Similar to how many right wing Americans can't accept criticism of the US of the past without it hurting their feelings about the US of the present or their own individual identity.
Nah. They hate us. As OLB pointed out, we’re the Millwall of Europe, the world even.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I’m not saying we don’t deserve to be hated. I’m just saying we are hated - as you appear to concede. Deservedly so perhaps. The Scots and Irish hate us the most of course.
No I am saying that historically the English have done some horrible stuff to other countries and so it is in fact surprising that you don't find much animosity. I think that countries who feel the English have stymied their rise to greatness tend to harbour stronger Anglophobe tendencies than countries that the English or British have actively colonised and exploited. Argentina for instance, or Russia, China or Iran. The Iranians and Chinese probably have the most justification.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
I agree we are never going back, but the EU would be insane if they didn't welcome us back into a friction free trading area that includes FOM. When the alternative is Johnsonian chaos, breaching international treaties and subduing our own and EU reciprocal trade I believe they would bite our hand off.
If this capitulation to RedWall morons is the best Labour can do we might as well continue voting Johnson just for the giggles.
Why? Why would they want us in the SM? There’s no benefit in having England in it. Better to get the Scots in and the Welsh and choke England economically and strategically until it’s an unviable entity. No more England, no more English = no more Johnson’s. Everyone’s happy.
Wales voted for Brexit, just like England.
Most UK exports go outside the EU now and you don't need to be in the single market to have a trade deal with the EU either, as the current UK and EU trade deal proves
Paragraph 1: Correct.
Paragraph 2: "...and you don't need to be in the single market to have a trade deal with the EU either, as the current UK and EU trade deal proves", leads us to "Most UK exports go outside the EU now".
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I do think this is part of the English psyche - that accepting empire was bad for the countries invaded by the UK means that they must hate us. I don't think any of these places hate us, they just know the history of imperialism. The UK is has such a fantabulous and childish view of it's own role in world history that any level of acceptance of how bad the empire was by other countries is, in turn, internalised by us as hatred of us now. Similar to how many right wing Americans can't accept criticism of the US of the past without it hurting their feelings about the US of the present or their own individual identity.
Brit fragility.
Quite. It goes hand in hand with the Churchill hero worship and such. Like, say what you want about Germany (for example), but they have made it a core part of their education to learn about the atrocities committed in their name and have instilled a desire not to repeat that. Whereas the UK education system is specifically and politically designed to prevent that, and so you have MPs saying we should threaten Ireland with famine over Brexit with 0 understanding how absolutely outrageous that is just in context of our history.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
Not really, even in 2017 51% people in 18 nations surveyed viewed the UK favourably, with 48% viewing the EU favourably.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I do think this is part of the English psyche - that accepting empire was bad for the countries invaded by the UK means that they must hate us. I don't think any of these places hate us, they just know the history of imperialism. The UK is has such a fantabulous and childish view of it's own role in world history that any level of acceptance of how bad the empire was by other countries is, in turn, internalised by us as hatred of us now. Similar to how many right wing Americans can't accept criticism of the US of the past without it hurting their feelings about the US of the present or their own individual identity.
Nah. They hate us. As OLB pointed out, we’re the Millwall of Europe, the world even.
I was only characterising your view, not endorsing it.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I do think this is part of the English psyche - that accepting empire was bad for the countries invaded by the UK means that they must hate us. I don't think any of these places hate us, they just know the history of imperialism. The UK is has such a fantabulous and childish view of it's own role in world history that any level of acceptance of how bad the empire was by other countries is, in turn, internalised by us as hatred of us now. Similar to how many right wing Americans can't accept criticism of the US of the past without it hurting their feelings about the US of the present or their own individual identity.
Nah. They hate us. As OLB pointed out, we’re the Millwall of Europe, the world even.
Do you have any evidence for this weird hill you're dying on?
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I do think this is part of the English psyche - that accepting empire was bad for the countries invaded by the UK means that they must hate us. I don't think any of these places hate us, they just know the history of imperialism. The UK is has such a fantabulous and childish view of it's own role in world history that any level of acceptance of how bad the empire was by other countries is, in turn, internalised by us as hatred of us now. Similar to how many right wing Americans can't accept criticism of the US of the past without it hurting their feelings about the US of the present or their own individual identity.
Nah. They hate us. As OLB pointed out, we’re the Millwall of Europe, the world even.
I was only characterising your view, not endorsing it.
You said that we are hated “less than” I think. So we are only arguing over degree.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I do think this is part of the English psyche - that accepting empire was bad for the countries invaded by the UK means that they must hate us. I don't think any of these places hate us, they just know the history of imperialism. The UK is has such a fantabulous and childish view of it's own role in world history that any level of acceptance of how bad the empire was by other countries is, in turn, internalised by us as hatred of us now. Similar to how many right wing Americans can't accept criticism of the US of the past without it hurting their feelings about the US of the present or their own individual identity.
Brit fragility.
Quite. It goes hand in hand with the Churchill hero worship and such. Like, say what you want about Germany (for example), but they have made it a core part of their education to learn about the atrocities committed in their name and have instilled a desire not to repeat that. Whereas the UK education system is specifically and politically designed to prevent that, and so you have MPs saying we should threaten Ireland with famine over Brexit with 0 understanding how absolutely outrageous that is just in context of our history.
Yes. That’s one of the reasons we are so despised worldwide, why other nations hate us so much.
Difficult to have much sympathy with the first guy. Wants to live in Cornwall but work in London for a London wage. Don't we all? Presumably a property in each?
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I do think this is part of the English psyche - that accepting empire was bad for the countries invaded by the UK means that they must hate us. I don't think any of these places hate us, they just know the history of imperialism. The UK is has such a fantabulous and childish view of it's own role in world history that any level of acceptance of how bad the empire was by other countries is, in turn, internalised by us as hatred of us now. Similar to how many right wing Americans can't accept criticism of the US of the past without it hurting their feelings about the US of the present or their own individual identity.
Nah. They hate us. As OLB pointed out, we’re the Millwall of Europe, the world even.
Do you have any evidence for this weird hill you're dying on?
Why is it weird? Read attitude surveys, read the Non-English posters on here, read Twitter if you want. The evidence is there.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I do think this is part of the English psyche - that accepting empire was bad for the countries invaded by the UK means that they must hate us. I don't think any of these places hate us, they just know the history of imperialism. The UK is has such a fantabulous and childish view of it's own role in world history that any level of acceptance of how bad the empire was by other countries is, in turn, internalised by us as hatred of us now. Similar to how many right wing Americans can't accept criticism of the US of the past without it hurting their feelings about the US of the present or their own individual identity.
Nah. They hate us. As OLB pointed out, we’re the Millwall of Europe, the world even.
Do you have any evidence for this weird hill you're dying on?
It is an English hill though. Maybe Glastonbury Tor?
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
Indian TV and film routinely depicts the English the way Anglophone media depicts WW2 Germans. Either bungling or irredeemably evil.
This has noticeably intensified with rise of Modi/BJP.
FINALLY people start to protest. I assume things will rumble along through the summer until the days start drawing in and the weather gets cooler.
Then the riots start.
Whilst I am always in favour of protest, especially disruptive ones, I am surprised about the method of protest here. Slowly driving around the motorway, unnecessarily using your petrol, to protest the cost of petrol seems a bit more of a hinderance to yourself than anyone else. If they blocked roads or refused to buy petrol that would make more sense, but they're literally paying for more petrol to protest the price of petrol. It's like those people who buy a product only to burn it - the company already has your money, so your protest is actively counter productive.
The point of the protest is to gain attention and therefore increase pressure on the government to do something. First part of that worked.
Possibly. But from a purely market point of view, they are rewarding the market for the high prices (if I understand correctly this is a rolling blockade of people driving in their cars, and therefore paying the price of the fuel they are protesting being too high). If they stole that fuel, then I am back saying it is probably an effective act of rebellion.
They can't take an effective action from a market point of view because there's only a small number of them willing to take action, so they wouldn't have any effect on the market level. If they had total support then they could organise something like a stay at home day and completely empty the motorways.
For a relatively small number of people a protest that is noticed is the only criterion of success.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I’m not saying we don’t deserve to be hated. I’m just saying we are hated - as you appear to concede. Deservedly so perhaps. The Scots and Irish hate us the most of course.
No I am saying that historically the English have done some horrible stuff to other countries and so it is in fact surprising that you don't find much animosity. I think that countries who feel the English have stymied their rise to greatness tend to harbour stronger Anglophobe tendencies than countries that the English or British have actively colonised and exploited. Argentina for instance, or Russia, China or Iran. The Iranians and Chinese probably have the most justification.
Have you travelled in these countries? I have (except Iran) and quite widely
Again I have never encountered a hint of anti-Englishness, not even in Argentina. In my experience the average Argentinian blames the horror of the Malvinas war on the junta. They want the Malvinas back - but it is not a personal thing against the English
In China you’ll be lucky if half the people you meet really know what England “is” or how it truly differs from, say, Germany or Italy. But on the whole they are really keen on western visitors. We represent freedom and modernity - and we are also a source of entertainment, simply by being different
I suspect your view of these countries and their attitudes is sourced from reading social media by Chinese people, Argentinians etc. As we know, the world is not Twitter, thank God
I also find it bizarre to hate someone because of things done by other people in the distant past.
Should I hate Normans because of the Harrying of the North? Or Italians because of what the Empire did to Boudicca?
It seems a very strange and unnecessarily grudge-filled way of viewing the world.
Re-read what I wrote - I was specifically talking about countries we didn't colonise. I am merely observing, not saying this is a sensible way to behave. Although actually I do hate the Normans.
In just 72 hours, Downing Street has gone from insisting that Boris Johnson was unaware of ‘any allegation’, to saying he was unaware of any ‘specific allegation’, to saying he was unaware of any ‘serious specific allegation’, to admitting that he ‘was aware of some allegations.’ https://twitter.com/NicholasPegg/status/1543931448838733825/photo/1
need to repost this...
Nick Pegg, a man whose main claim to fame is he operates a Dalek on Dr Who.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
Indian TV and film routinely depicts the English the way Anglophone media depicts WW2 Germans. Either bungling or irredeemably evil.
This has noticeably intensified with rise of Modi/BJP.
Perhaps they are simply taking their cue from Hollywood?
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
Indian TV and film routinely depicts the English the way Anglophone media depicts WW2 Germans. Either bungling or irredeemably evil.
This has noticeably intensified with rise of Modi/BJP.
Modern, or for that period? Because for the colonial period, the British occupation of the Indian sub continent is definitely comparable to the horrors of Nazi rule- in body count, political oppression, economic destruction etc. The UK only ignore it because we view ourselves as the good guys in WW2 and we killed people at a slower pace compared to the death camps. Inglorious Empire is a highly enlightening read to understand what the Empire did to the continent.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
Not really, even in 2017 51% people in 18 nations surveyed viewed the UK favourably, with 48% viewing the EU favourably.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I’m not saying we don’t deserve to be hated. I’m just saying we are hated - as you appear to concede. Deservedly so perhaps. The Scots and Irish hate us the most of course.
No I am saying that historically the English have done some horrible stuff to other countries and so it is in fact surprising that you don't find much animosity. I think that countries who feel the English have stymied their rise to greatness tend to harbour stronger Anglophobe tendencies than countries that the English or British have actively colonised and exploited. Argentina for instance, or Russia, China or Iran. The Iranians and Chinese probably have the most justification.
Have you travelled in these countries? I have (except Iran) and quite widely
Again I have never encountered a hint of anti-Englishness, not even in Argentina. In my experience the average Argentinian blames the horror of the Malvinas war on the junta. They want the Malvinas back - but it is not a personal thing against the English
In China you’ll be lucky if half the people you meet really know what England “is” or how it truly differs from, say, Germany or Italy. But on the whole they are really keen on western visitors. We represent freedom and modernity - and we are also a source of entertainment, simply by being different
I suspect your view of these countries and their attitudes is sourced from reading social media by Chinese people, Argentinians etc. As we know, the world is not Twitter, thank God
Yes these views are not based on widespread travel to these places and quite possibly are impressions gleaned more from official pronouncements which may be completely out of whack with popular opinion. In my experience people the world over tend to be welcoming and kind, especially if you treat their country with respect and spend money. I have never encountered any hostility anywhere.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I’m not saying we don’t deserve to be hated. I’m just saying we are hated - as you appear to concede. Deservedly so perhaps. The Scots and Irish hate us the most of course.
No I am saying that historically the English have done some horrible stuff to other countries and so it is in fact surprising that you don't find much animosity. I think that countries who feel the English have stymied their rise to greatness tend to harbour stronger Anglophobe tendencies than countries that the English or British have actively colonised and exploited. Argentina for instance, or Russia, China or Iran. The Iranians and Chinese probably have the most justification.
Have you travelled in these countries? I have (except Iran) and quite widely
Again I have never encountered a hint of anti-Englishness, not even in Argentina. In my experience the average Argentinian blames the horror of the Malvinas war on the junta. They want the Malvinas back - but it is not a personal thing against the English
In China you’ll be lucky if half the people you meet really know what England “is” or how it truly differs from, say, Germany or Italy. But on the whole they are really keen on western visitors. We represent freedom and modernity - and we are also a source of entertainment, simply by being different
I suspect your view of these countries and their attitudes is sourced from reading social media by Chinese people, Argentinians etc. As we know, the world is not Twitter, thank God
I was in Argentina just after we knocked them out of the World Cup. I don't think there was any much bitterness about the Malvinas. But they were sure as shit pissed about the football.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
Indian TV and film routinely depicts the English the way Anglophone media depicts WW2 Germans. Either bungling or irredeemably evil.
This has noticeably intensified with rise of Modi/BJP.
Modern, or for that period? Because for the colonial period, the British occupation of the Indian sub continent is definitely comparable to the horrors of Nazi rule- in body count, political oppression, economic destruction etc. The UK only ignore it because we view ourselves as the good guys in WW2 and we killed people at a slower pace compared to the death camps. Inglorious Empire is a highly enlightening read to understand what the Empire did to the continent.
Not that Modi has any moral high ground.
What a load of rubbish. British rule in India was not perfect but in no way whatsoever was it comparable to the Nazis and Holocaust.
There was no mass genocide of Indians, no extermination camps for Hindus
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
Indian TV and film routinely depicts the English the way Anglophone media depicts WW2 Germans. Either bungling or irredeemably evil.
This has noticeably intensified with rise of Modi/BJP.
On the media it tends to be Congress figures who trash British rule in India more than the BJP do
I also find it bizarre to hate someone because of things done by other people in the distant past.
Should I hate Normans because of the Harrying of the North? Or Italians because of what the Empire did to Boudicca?
It seems a very strange and unnecessarily grudge-filled way of viewing the world.
Re-read what I wrote - I was specifically talking about countries we didn't colonise. I am merely observing, not saying this is a sensible way to behave. Although actually I do hate the Normans.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I’m not saying we don’t deserve to be hated. I’m just saying we are hated - as you appear to concede. Deservedly so perhaps. The Scots and Irish hate us the most of course.
No I am saying that historically the English have done some horrible stuff to other countries and so it is in fact surprising that you don't find much animosity. I think that countries who feel the English have stymied their rise to greatness tend to harbour stronger Anglophobe tendencies than countries that the English or British have actively colonised and exploited. Argentina for instance, or Russia, China or Iran. The Iranians and Chinese probably have the most justification.
Have you travelled in these countries? I have (except Iran) and quite widely
Again I have never encountered a hint of anti-Englishness, not even in Argentina. In my experience the average Argentinian blames the horror of the Malvinas war on the junta. They want the Malvinas back - but it is not a personal thing against the English
In China you’ll be lucky if half the people you meet really know what England “is” or how it truly differs from, say, Germany or Italy. But on the whole they are really keen on western visitors. We represent freedom and modernity - and we are also a source of entertainment, simply by being different
I suspect your view of these countries and
their attitudes is sourced from reading social media by Chinese people, Argentinians etc. As we know, the world is not Twitter, thank God
Yes these views are not based on widespread travel to these places and quite possibly are impressions gleaned more from official pronouncements which may be completely out of whack with popular opinion. In my experience people the world over tend to be welcoming and kind, especially if you treat their country with respect and spend money. I have never encountered any hostility anywhere.
You Scots tend to be more welcome than us benighted and despised English. That’s the point. They all hate us.
Sir Keir is doing all the necessary barnacle scraping.
No to SNP No to returning to the EU (or even the SM).
I think he’s pretty much sorted the trans issue too.
Rachael Reeves has even made noises about tax cuts.
Not sure there’s much left.
If they win it’s going to be like Blair’s first term all over again.
What, Labour getting a million from Bernie "I'd take a bullet for Putin" Ecclestone?
Yeah, but they gave it back. After giving Bernie what he wanted. It must have been like Christmas for him.
Apparently he was really pi**ed off about it; felt like his name had been dragged through the mud over a simple business transaction by the Conservatives. The odd thing was that he was a Conservative supporter before this, and he said he would never support them again.
“It’s costing me £300 a week before I even get to work and earn anything,” “We had to leave those jobs because it was costing us £380 a week just to get to and from work.
How far are these people living from their place of work ? What on earth are they driving ?
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I do think this is part of the English psyche - that accepting empire was bad for the countries invaded by the UK means that they must hate us. I don't think any of these places hate us, they just know the history of imperialism. The UK is has such a fantabulous and childish view of it's own role in world history that any level of acceptance of how bad the empire was by other countries is, in turn, internalised by us as hatred of us now. Similar to how many right wing Americans can't accept criticism of the US of the past without it hurting their feelings about the US of the present or their own individual identity.
Brit fragility.
Quite. It goes hand in hand with the Churchill hero worship and such. Like, say what you want about Germany (for example), but they have made it a core part of their education to learn about the atrocities committed in their name and have instilled a desire not to repeat that. Whereas the UK education system is specifically and politically designed to prevent that, and so you have MPs saying we should threaten Ireland with famine over Brexit with 0 understanding how absolutely outrageous that is just in context of our history.
I’m in the odd position, perhaps, of being a liberal who thinks that Churchill was great, the Empire an often glorious enterprise, and I much happier that the British helped create the modern age than competing traditions.
But there is still, to me, a pompous little England-ism that seems to think the UK is uniquely virtuous, that there’s nothing to learn from foreigners, and that they can’t be trusted besides. You see it on here most days, expressed as bizarre, ignorant, and often paranoiac tripe about the EU, Germany, France, the US, etc, etc.
I’d say the cure is travel, but actually the British are pretty well-travelled. Perhaps compulsory learning of a foreign language from infancy is required.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
Indian TV and film routinely depicts the English the way Anglophone media depicts WW2 Germans. Either bungling or irredeemably evil.
This has noticeably intensified with rise of Modi/BJP.
Modern, or for that period? Because for the colonial period, the British occupation of the Indian sub continent is definitely comparable to the horrors of Nazi rule- in body count, political oppression, economic destruction etc. The UK only ignore it because we view ourselves as the good guys in WW2 and we killed people at a slower pace compared to the death camps. Inglorious Empire is a highly enlightening read to understand what the Empire did to the continent.
Not that Modi has any moral high ground.
What a load of rubbish. British rule in India was not perfect but in no way whatsoever was it comparable to the Nazis and Holocaust.
There was no mass genocide of Indians, no extermination camps for Hindus
There were no specific death camps, but there were continued administrative decision to allow millions of Indians to die of starvation rather than feed them with food grown in their own country, something that was a repetition from the Great Hunger of Ireland. The Bengal Famine under Churchill alone led to 3 million dead, and there was available food for Indians grown on Indian soil, it was just held in reserve for soldiers.
Kelloggs has lost its court case over banned sugary cereal offers in supermarkets. Its defence was that if you took milk into account, there was less sugar per rod, pole or perch. Kelloggs lost because:-
Judge Mr Justice Linden said Kellogg's cereals "do not come with instructions for preparation which say that they should be consumed with milk". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62034220
Cue Kelloggs adding a helpful panel on the back of each packet of cereal.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I’m not saying we don’t deserve to be hated. I’m just saying we are hated - as you appear to concede. Deservedly so perhaps. The Scots and Irish hate us the most of course.
No I am saying that historically the English have done some horrible stuff to other countries and so it is in fact surprising that you don't find much animosity. I think that countries who feel the English have stymied their rise to greatness tend to harbour stronger Anglophobe tendencies than countries that the English or British have actively colonised and exploited. Argentina for instance, or Russia, China or Iran. The Iranians and Chinese probably have the most justification.
Have you travelled in these countries? I have (except Iran) and quite widely
Again I have never encountered a hint of anti-Englishness, not even in Argentina. In my experience the average Argentinian blames the horror of the Malvinas war on the junta. They want the Malvinas back - but it is not a personal thing against the English
In China you’ll be lucky if half the people you meet really know what England “is” or how it truly differs from, say, Germany or Italy. But on the whole they are really keen on western visitors. We represent freedom and modernity - and we are also a source of entertainment, simply by being different
I suspect your view of these countries and
their attitudes is sourced from reading social media by Chinese people, Argentinians etc. As we know, the world is not Twitter, thank God
Yes these views are not based on widespread travel to these places and quite possibly are impressions gleaned more from official pronouncements which may be completely out of whack with popular opinion. In my experience people the world over tend to be welcoming and kind, especially if you treat their country with respect and spend money. I have never encountered any hostility anywhere.
You Scots tend to be more welcome than us benighted and despised English. That’s the point. They all hate us.
I left Scotland at 18 and spent part of my childhood in the NE of England, and have English parents. My Scottish accent has gone AWOL and most people meeting me would assume I am English and I don't usually correct them. My wife and kids sound unambiguously English. I have never encountered this hostility that you apparently find in every corner of the globe. I don't want to victim blame, but if everyone you meet hates you I do wonder...
Sir Keir is doing all the necessary barnacle scraping.
No to SNP No to returning to the EU (or even the SM).
I think he’s pretty much sorted the trans issue too.
Rachael Reeves has even made noises about tax cuts.
Not sure there’s much left.
I think this is pretty clever politics form Starmer. I suspect the hand of Mandelson in here. Neutralise the negatives and remove all ammo that the Tories have. Accept that first term will be largely not massively different for the Tories while allowing Tories to tear themselves apart. then second term becomes more radical.
Not what I want, but it is sensible politics. How long before a campaign to make his boring reputation a positive?
I've long thought if Starmer (in the debates) said something like, "Yes, I'm boring and dull but after ten years of Brexit, Covid, more Brexit, never ending sleeze and economic incompetent, don't you think the country would like 5 years of nice quiet dullness?"
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I do think this is part of the English psyche - that accepting empire was bad for the countries invaded by the UK means that they must hate us. I don't think any of these places hate us, they just know the history of imperialism. The UK is has such a fantabulous and childish view of it's own role in world history that any level of acceptance of how bad the empire was by other countries is, in turn, internalised by us as hatred of us now. Similar to how many right wing Americans can't accept criticism of the US of the past without it hurting their feelings about the US of the present or their own individual identity.
Brit fragility.
Quite. It goes hand in hand with the Churchill hero worship and such. Like, say what you want about Germany (for example), but they have made it a core part of their education to learn about the atrocities committed in their name and have instilled a desire not to repeat that. Whereas the UK education system is specifically and politically designed to prevent that, and so you have MPs saying we should threaten Ireland with famine over Brexit with 0 understanding how absolutely outrageous that is just in context of our history.
I’m in the odd position, perhaps, of being a liberal who thinks that Churchill was great, the Empire an often glorious enterprise, and I much happier that the British helped create the modern age than competing traditions.
But there is still, to me, a pompous little England-ism that seems to think the UK is uniquely virtuous, that there’s nothing to learn from foreigners, and that they can’t be trusted besides. You see it on here most days, expressed as bizarre, ignorant, and often paranoiac tripe about the EU, Germany, France, the US, etc, etc.
I’d say the cure is travel, but actually the British are pretty well-travelled. Perhaps compulsory learning of a foreign language from infancy is required.
I’m sure the hate is justified for the reasons you point out but that doesn’t detract from the fact we are the Millwall of the world and, in the EU’s case, glad we were kicked out of the league. I’m sure the long term aim is for England to go the way of Prussia.
I can't wait until I hear a blackmailer use that defence: No, your honour, I was not extorting him. I was acting in a pastoral role.
The whips don't want you to stop having embarrassing secrets. They want to use your embarrassing secrets to ensure loyalty.
Jamie Wallis MP on 30 March:
I’ve had a lot of support from the Whips since I was elected. Not for the reasons you might think, but there’s a lot that goes on in MPs lives and the Whips play an important wellbeing role – as far as I’ve seen they try their best to support and help MPs who are having a tough time. Well they’ve certainly earned their keep with me.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
Indian TV and film routinely depicts the English the way Anglophone media depicts WW2 Germans. Either bungling or irredeemably evil.
This has noticeably intensified with rise of Modi/BJP.
Modern, or for that period? Because for the colonial period, the British occupation of the Indian sub continent is definitely comparable to the horrors of Nazi rule- in body count, political oppression, economic destruction etc. The UK only ignore it because we view ourselves as the good guys in WW2 and we killed people at a slower pace compared to the death camps. Inglorious Empire is a highly enlightening read to understand what the Empire did to the continent.
Not that Modi has any moral high ground.
What a load of rubbish. British rule in India was not perfect but in no way whatsoever was it comparable to the Nazis and Holocaust.
There was no mass genocide of Indians, no extermination camps for Hindus
Quite
The slur on Our Empire suggesting that it treated Indians as if they were a lot of Africans is intolerable
Kelloggs has lost its court case over banned sugary cereal offers in supermarkets. Its defence was that if you took milk into account, there was less sugar per rod, pole or perch. Kelloggs lost because:-
Judge Mr Justice Linden said Kellogg's cereals "do not come with instructions for preparation which say that they should be consumed with milk". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62034220
Cue Kelloggs adding a helpful panel on the back of each packet of cereal.
.. they don't?
Don't eat cereal these days but I do remember my Special K saying something like "nutritional information for 30g with 125 ml semi-skimmed milk" or somesuch.
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I’m not saying we don’t deserve to be hated. I’m just saying we are hated - as you appear to concede. Deservedly so perhaps. The Scots and Irish hate us the most of course.
No I am saying that historically the English have done some horrible stuff to other countries and so it is in fact surprising that you don't find much animosity. I think that countries who feel the English have stymied their rise to greatness tend to harbour stronger Anglophobe tendencies than countries that the English or British have actively colonised and exploited. Argentina for instance, or Russia, China or Iran. The Iranians and Chinese probably have the most justification.
Have you travelled in these countries? I have (except Iran) and quite widely
Again I have never encountered a hint of anti-Englishness, not even in Argentina. In my experience the average Argentinian blames the horror of the Malvinas war on the junta. They want the Malvinas back - but it is not a personal thing against the English
In China you’ll be lucky if half the people you meet really know what England “is” or how it truly differs from, say, Germany or Italy. But on the whole they are really keen on western visitors. We represent freedom and modernity - and we are also a source of entertainment, simply by being different
I suspect your view of these countries and
their attitudes is sourced from reading social media by Chinese people, Argentinians etc. As we know, the world is not Twitter, thank God
Yes these views are not based on widespread travel to these places and quite possibly are impressions gleaned more from official pronouncements which may be completely out of whack with popular opinion. In my experience people the world over tend to be welcoming and kind, especially if you treat their country with respect and spend money. I have never encountered any hostility anywhere.
You Scots tend to be more welcome than us benighted and despised English. That’s the point. They all hate us.
I left Scotland at 18 and spent part of my childhood in the NE of England, and have English parents. My Scottish accent has gone AWOL and most people meeting me would assume I am English and I don't usually correct them. My wife and kids sound unambiguously English. I have never encountered this hostility that you apparently find in every corner of the globe. I don't want to victim blame, but if everyone you meet hates you I do wonder...
I haven’t travelled for years to avoid these attitudes. I used to go to the States to visit the wife’s family regularly but then Covid.
I left Scotland at 18 and spent part of my childhood in the NE of England, and have English parents. My Scottish accent has gone AWOL and most people meeting me would assume I am English and I don't usually correct them. My wife and kids sound unambiguously English. I have never encountered this hostility that you apparently find in every corner of the globe. I don't want to victim blame, but if everyone you meet hates you I do wonder...
I have a relative.... she's on her fourth job in ten years. Every job she leaves, citing they're all arseholes!
I've said to my wife, quietly..... "If everyone is the arsehole, it's not them.... it's you."
After Labour's capitulation on Brexit NOT having Boris Johnson is Labour's only remaining USP.
It’s not a capitulation, Roger, it’s reality. The EU are not letting us back. Labour can only repair relations. Johnson reinforced the pre-existing Anglophobia in the EU and turned it into a loathing that can never heal. It’s over. We can’t go back after pissing on the doormat on the way out. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
FOM and a single market on the other should be an imperative.
Labour are all over the place. Useless!
FOM would be a hostage to fortune - the squeeze on low end employee availability will eventually ease, as business adapt. If that coincides with an FOM deal, then the two will be linked inextricably.
The removal of FOM is why we have no HGV drivers, not enough educated blue collar workers, and shortages in care and health services, let alone the fact that we can't up-sticks and live unfettered in Spain or the South of France like we could before we lost that right.
I am not demanding re-join, but this policy is absurd. It is pandering to the terminally stupid.
It takes two to tango. Why do you think an SM option is open to us? We are not rejoining the SM - we can’t. We are too hated, too despised elsewhere in Europe. We are not trusted is an understatement. It’s over. I’m sad about it but we’re not going to be allowed back.
The EU don't trust Johnson, with good reason, but I think would be much more open to negotiating a closer relationship with a different PM who approached the negotiations in a cooperative and honest spirit. I think they would be overjoyed if we rejoined , what better way to demonstrate the attractiveness of EU membership than to welcome us back into the fold, but they would want to see a stable pro-EU majority in place first as there is no appetite to go through this time-wasting shitshow again.
He’s made it worse deeper than Johnson. It’s a dislike and distrust of the English nation. They hate us with a passion. That’s why they’re so keen on getting the Scots in. Always have to an extent but Johnson’s given them the opportunity to express it openly.
What is your evidence for this assertion? I interact fairly regularly with current and former EU officials and most are Anglophiles, whose overwhelming emotional response to Brexit has been sadness, coupled with irritation that the UK government is trying to renegotiate its own deal and is once again using up bandwidth when there are more serious things to focus on. They do have a genuine loathing for Johnson for being so dishonest, but then that has also become the settled view on this side of the channel too.
Interaction with current and former EU officials, current politicians and EU citizens. There is a visceral shiver when an English person enters the room. Largely due to Johnson bringing it to the fore
Is there anyone in your view who doesn't harbour a visceral hatred of the English? Or have you become the Millwall of Europe?
Most countries hate us. Al Murray did a series on it.
In my experience most countries hate the English a lot less than you might think they would have reason to. I would put Ireland, India and the countries of the Anglophone Caribbean at the top of this list of cutting the English a lot more slack than they probably deserve.
I do think this is part of the English psyche - that accepting empire was bad for the countries invaded by the UK means that they must hate us. I don't think any of these places hate us, they just know the history of imperialism. The UK is has such a fantabulous and childish view of it's own role in world history that any level of acceptance of how bad the empire was by other countries is, in turn, internalised by us as hatred of us now. Similar to how many right wing Americans can't accept criticism of the US of the past without it hurting their feelings about the US of the present or their own individual identity.
Brit fragility.
Quite. It goes hand in hand with the Churchill hero worship and such. Like, say what you want about Germany (for example), but they have made it a core part of their education to learn about the atrocities committed in their name and have instilled a desire not to repeat that. Whereas the UK education system is specifically and politically designed to prevent that, and so you have MPs saying we should threaten Ireland with famine over Brexit with 0 understanding how absolutely outrageous that is just in context of our history.
I’m in the odd position, perhaps, of being a liberal who thinks that Churchill was great, the Empire an often glorious enterprise, and I much happier that the British helped create the modern age than competing traditions.
But there is still, to me, a pompous little England-ism that seems to think the UK is uniquely virtuous, that there’s nothing to learn from foreigners, and that they can’t be trusted besides. You see it on here most days, expressed as bizarre, ignorant, and often paranoiac tripe about the EU, Germany, France, the US, etc, etc.
I’d say the cure is travel, but actually the British are pretty well-travelled. Perhaps compulsory learning of a foreign language from infancy is required.
I think you're correct that the British Empire helped create the modern age, but that's no good thing in my mind. The asset stripping of other countries, the playing locals against each others and engineering of internal conflict, the mass death and destruction of communities and environments left in the wake. Would any other great powers' Empire have been better; of course not - the French Empire have their crimes, Belgium and the Congo, Japanese imperialism etc. But we have a responsibility to understand and come to terms with our history, not others; that's their responsibility.
Comments
Presumably Blackford will be taking this approach with all international bodies of which the UK is currently a member.
Actually if you look at soft power measures by Pew etc, the UK does well.
What’s also true though is that the UK (and English) reputation in Brussels and other European capitals has been trashed by the Brexiters, chiefly Johnson.
Get rid of the Johnson and the problem starts to abate; look at Obama-era US for example compared with before and after.
I don’t think they were very influential though until Brexit.
He's now been top 2 at 6/10 races (with two DNFs). That's a 75% rate of races he finishes.
That's two more than Leclerc or Sainz and tied with Verstappen.
As it happens, I don't agree with us rejoining the SM or the CU. I think it would cement long term decline as we'd be signing up to follow rules we didn't have any real say in making, although I'd be open to concessions including FOM if it made things easier outside the SM or CU as I was never against things like FOM. The best deal we could have had with the EU was the one we had, but that ship has long sailed and if we can't have a say in the decisions that are made, we should keep the EU at arms length.
Most UK exports go outside the EU now and you don't need to be in the single market to have a trade deal with the EU either, as the current UK and EU trade deal proves
He has no authority to demote or move anyone.
Canada was top and Iran bottom
https://globescan.com/2017/07/04/sharp-drop-in-world-views-of-us-uk-global-poll/
They could end him, instantly.
That they are cabinet members only because there are servile nonentities means they are happy to keep debasing themselves for the Liar King.
The psychology is fascinating
But not often, and even then I might have been to blame for at least one - being a typical loud drunk arrogant Londoner.
Everywhere else I have encountered the normal kindness of human beings greeting a stranger, from Ireland to Italy, from Mexico to Madagascar
There are some places where they are deeply curious or notably positive about English people. In the USA they love the accent (a cliche but true). In remote spots they love the chance to talk English with an actual English person. Etc
However some CULTURES have a tinge of Anglophobia. Ireland definitely. India a bit. Australia also (tho there it is complexly mixed with a great amount of affection and familial loyalty as well)
Difficult to have much sympathy with the first guy. Wants to live in Cornwall but work in London for a London wage. Don't we all?
Presumably a property in each?
Paragraph 2: "...and you don't need to be in the single market to have a trade deal with the EU either, as the current UK and EU trade deal proves", leads us to "Most UK exports go outside the EU now".
I also find it bizarre to hate someone because of things done by other people in the distant past.
Should I hate Normans because of the Harrying of the North? Or Italians because of what the Empire did to Boudicca?
It seems a very strange and unnecessarily grudge-filled way of viewing the world.
This has noticeably intensified with rise of Modi/BJP.
For a relatively small number of people a protest that is noticed is the only criterion of success.
Again I have never encountered a hint of anti-Englishness, not even in Argentina. In my experience the average Argentinian blames the horror of the Malvinas war on the junta. They want the Malvinas back - but it is not a personal thing against the English
In China you’ll be lucky if half the people you meet really know what England “is” or how it truly differs from, say, Germany or Italy. But on the whole they are really keen on western visitors. We represent freedom and modernity - and we are also a source of entertainment, simply by being different
I suspect your view of these countries and their attitudes is sourced from reading social media by Chinese people, Argentinians etc. As we know, the world is not Twitter, thank God
I am merely observing, not saying this is a sensible way to behave. Although actually I do hate the Normans.
Cetinje Montenegro, one of their TWO capitals (this is the cultural and royal capital)
It’s like a small English market town in the Jura mountains
Not that Modi has any moral high ground.
Edit to add: No
https://jamesbond.fandom.com/wiki/Casino_Royale_(location)#:~:text=Although the casino part of,serving as "Hotel Splendide".
Nadhim Zahawi: 39 per cent
Penny Mordaunt: 40 per cent.
Don’t know: 21 per cent.
(776 votes cast)
–
Nadhim Zahawi: 39 per cent
Liz Truss: 41 per cent
Don’t know: 20 per cent.
(773 votes cast)
–
Nadhim Zahawi: 28 per cent.
Ben Wallace: 52 per cent.
Don’t know: 20 per cent.
(773 votes cast)
https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/04/next-tory-leader-play-offs-fourth-nadhim-zahawi/
I can't wait until I hear a blackmailer use that defence: No, your honour, I was not extorting him. I was acting in a pastoral role.
The whips don't want you to stop having embarrassing secrets. They want to use your embarrassing secrets to ensure loyalty.
There was no mass genocide of Indians, no extermination camps for Hindus
Possibly it’s most famous building is called the “Biljarda” because it boasts the first billiards table in Montenegro. No joke
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g304076-d4283197-Reviews-Njegos_Museum_Biljarda-Cetinje.html
I like it. Fantastically sleepy
So I wonder why he was giving money to Labour?
“It’s costing me £300 a week before I even get to work and earn anything,”
“We had to leave those jobs because it was costing us £380 a week just to get to and from work.
How far are these people living from their place of work ?
What on earth are they driving ?
But there is still, to me, a pompous little England-ism that seems to think the UK is uniquely virtuous, that there’s nothing to learn from foreigners, and that they can’t be trusted besides. You see it on here most days, expressed as bizarre, ignorant, and often paranoiac tripe about the EU, Germany, France, the US, etc, etc.
I’d say the cure is travel, but actually the British are pretty well-travelled. Perhaps compulsory learning of a foreign language from infancy is required.
Win in a landslide......
I’ve had a lot of support from the Whips since I was elected. Not for the reasons you might think, but there’s a lot that goes on in MPs lives and the Whips play an important wellbeing role – as far as I’ve seen they try their best to support and help MPs who are having a tough time. Well they’ve certainly earned their keep with me.
https://www.jamiewallisbridgend.com/news/statement-from-jamie-wallis-mp-30th-march-2022
The slur on Our Empire suggesting that it treated Indians as if they were a lot of Africans is intolerable
Don't eat cereal these days but I do remember my Special K saying something like "nutritional information for 30g with 125 ml semi-skimmed milk" or somesuch.
Every job she leaves, citing they're all arseholes!
I've said to my wife, quietly..... "If everyone is the arsehole, it's not them.... it's you."