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This looks problematic for Number 10 – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,162
edited July 2022 in General
This looks problematic for Number 10 – politicalbetting.com

EXPLOSIVE NEW DETAIL – The MoS has been told that in 2020, during a discussion about whether to appoint Mr Pincher to the post of Chief Whip, the Prime Minister told aides: ‘He’s handsy, that’s a problem. Pincher by name, pincher by nature’.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    On same MOA twitter stream:

    "When Mr Pincher quit as Deputy Chief Whip on Thursday after admitting groping two men in a private members’ club, a Number 10 spokesman told reporters that he was ‘not aware of the prime minister being aware [of the allegations] before any appointment’..."

    Note the VERY care wordsmithing.

    "No Aware of Being Aware" would make a great number for future boffo box-office Big Dog musical.

    Score by The Lord Lloyd-Webber (or is is The Lloyd Lord-Webber?) script by Dominic Cummings.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    You do have to wonder though about the wisdom of appointing him to the Whips office though. A role where he is supposed to provoke terror into potentially miscreant MPs - not have them turn round and say "Well fuck you, Uncle Monty...."

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    All sooo priced in

    He was living very dangerously, writing that rather good drink column at the same time as putting it away to the extent he allegedly did
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    edited July 2022
    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    I think the issue is not whether Mr Johnson was feeling Christian, but that he (or his rep for him) lied about knowing about the issue at the time of appointment AIUI, no?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    From a job, hopefully no. From THAT particular job, hell yes.

    At least the Tory whip who kicked the Belgian ambassador in the ass believed he was acting in the line of duty.

    AND he didn't go around doing it to parliamentary staff and Young Conservatives, just for jollies.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Well…yes, yes we are. And we always have done.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited July 2022
    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    We're there no non sex pests in the running. Is the talent pool for Tory appointments THAT shallow ?!
    Or are you more likely to get an appointment if some aspect of your life is a mess because it gives No 10 a decent power of blackmail/knows you'll be less of a threat to big Dog's job ?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Not about "a reputation" though, he plainly did this routinely at tory mp type social occasions, so must have been first hand knowledge.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Certainly having a Finance Minister who rather liked very young chaps in their sports kit didn't ultimately damage the SNP very much.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    IshmaelZ said:

    All sooo priced in

    He was living very dangerously, writing that rather good drink column at the same time as putting it away to the extent he allegedly did

    You think that Pincher's column for The Critic was good? Here is a sample from his (just posted) July 2022 contribution:

    "The first sniff finds fragrant roses and a gentle fruitiness. The first sip suggests plenty of spice (some say tar, but I suggest a more mellow liquorice or toffee) and an earthiness which belies the absence of opacity. But it slips over the tongue, warming its way to the throat with an easy astringency as the plum and black cherry flavours flower to full blossom.

    Further sips confirm the sensation making a Barolo an ideal accompaniment to manzo all’olio, pampanella or some other traditional and heavy meat dish served in the evening when work is done and pleasure crooks her forefinger."
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Not about "a reputation" though, he plainly did this routinely at tory mp type social occasions, so must have been first hand knowledge.
    Correction - "both hand knowledge"
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    I think the issue is not whether Mr Johnson was feeling Christian, but that he (or his rep for him) lied about knowing about the issue at the time of appointment AIUI, no?
    Ah, SS has pointed out the weasel wording. But the public impression is pretty much what I outline, no?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    DavidL said:

    It's been a much better afternoon than morning at the Test for England. Unfortunately play is about to resume.

    DavidL said:

    It's been a much better afternoon than morning at the Test for England. Unfortunately play is about to resume.

    This sort of broken play really does suit the bowling side
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    All sooo priced in

    He was living very dangerously, writing that rather good drink column at the same time as putting it away to the extent he allegedly did

    You think that Pincher's column for The Critic was good? Here is a sample from his (just posted) July 2022 contribution:

    "The first sniff finds fragrant roses and a gentle fruitiness. The first sip suggests plenty of spice (some say tar, but I suggest a more mellow liquorice or toffee) and an earthiness which belies the absence of opacity. But it slips over the tongue, warming its way to the throat with an easy astringency as the plum and black cherry flavours flower to full blossom.

    Further sips confirm the sensation making a Barolo an ideal accompaniment to manzo all’olio, pampanella or some other traditional and heavy meat dish served in the evening when work is done and pleasure crooks her forefinger."
    Yeah ok quite a lot of top spin on that one
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Tory sleaze is so back isn't it.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    27s
    One other thing. Boris knew the rumours about Pincher. He believed the rumours about Pincher. He spread the rumours about Pincher himself. But he was also aware of specific allegations relating to Pincher.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges?s=20&t=zFUDy03k5Y_j3chinBozZA
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,653
    Any advice for cheapish, decent food in Venice?

    Here for one night. Hot.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    It's been a much better afternoon than morning at the Test for England. Unfortunately play is about to resume.

    DavidL said:

    It's been a much better afternoon than morning at the Test for England. Unfortunately play is about to resume.

    This sort of broken play really does suit the bowling side
    I think broken play is pretty damn generous to either of our openers.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    What I cannot understand, is how - against a backdrop of allegations of "misconduct" ruining peoples careers and serious jail sentences for sexual assault - is how anyone could still possibly be going around groping people. Those who do, must be completely reckless and insane.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    edited July 2022
    It's difficult to remember back then, but the LSE Tory Club of Pincher's day was virulently homophobic. I mean properly, openly and proudly so.
    More than one were closeted.
    It can't have been easy for him.
    Although he's had 30+ years to deal with it.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Eabhal said:

    Any advice for cheapish, decent food in Venice?

    Here for one night. Hot.

    Take the train to Padua aka Padova.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    darkage said:


    What I cannot understand, is how - against a backdrop of allegations of "misconduct" ruining peoples careers and serious jail sentences for sexual assault - is how anyone could still possibly be going around groping people. Those who do, must be completely reckless and insane.

    "Further sips . . . in the evening when work is done and pleasure crooks her forefinger." - Chris Pincher
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    Tory sleaze is so back isn't it.

    The thing is you expect an experienced and sophisticated middle aged drunk to be able to accomodate any amount of Carlton Club house claret without losing control. you have to ask whether he mixes it with injudicious quantities of some stimulant like caffeine, to elevate himself into two-gropes-in-one-evening territory...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Eabhal said:

    Any advice for cheapish, decent food in Venice?

    Here for one night. Hot.

    Take the train to Padua aka Padova.
    Good advice. Check out the Giottos while you are there
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    darkage said:


    What I cannot understand, is how - against a backdrop of allegations of "misconduct" ruining peoples careers and serious jail sentences for sexual assault - is how anyone could still possibly be going around groping people. Those who do, must be completely reckless and insane.

    "Further sips . . . in the evening when work is done and pleasure crooks her forefinger." - Chris Pincher
    Oh no. Pleeease. Not after '... heavy meat dish ...'.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    darkage said:


    What I cannot understand, is how - against a backdrop of allegations of "misconduct" ruining peoples careers and serious jail sentences for sexual assault - is how anyone could still possibly be going around groping people. Those who do, must be completely reckless and insane.

    "Further sips . . . in the evening when work is done and pleasure crooks her forefinger." - Chris Pincher
    Oh no. Pleeease. Not after '... heavy meat dish ...'.
    He can braise my brisket any time...
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    darkage said:


    What I cannot understand, is how - against a backdrop of allegations of "misconduct" ruining peoples careers and serious jail sentences for sexual assault - is how anyone could still possibly be going around groping people. Those who do, must be completely reckless and insane.

    The victims were staff so maybe he thought he could get away with it. Or perhaps he was simply "very, very drunk".
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Tory sleaze is so back isn't it.

    The thing is you expect an experienced and sophisticated middle aged drunk to be able to accomodate any amount of Carlton Club house claret without losing control. you have to ask whether he mixes it with injudicious quantities of some stimulant like caffeine, to elevate himself into two-gropes-in-one-evening territory...
    Oh, so they have Buckfast Abbey premier cru on the wine list, then?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Tory sleaze is so back isn't it.

    The thing is you expect an experienced and sophisticated middle aged drunk to be able to accomodate any amount of Carlton Club house claret without losing control. you have to ask whether he mixes it with injudicious quantities of some stimulant like caffeine, to elevate himself into two-gropes-in-one-evening territory...
    Oh, so they have Buckfast Abbey premier cru on the wine list, then?
    Something like that
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    kinabalu said:

    Tory sleaze is so back isn't it.

    I had to check my hairline and my waistline to make sure it wasn't the nineties.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    IshmaelZ said:

    All sooo priced in

    He was living very dangerously, writing that rather good drink column at the same time as putting it away to the extent he allegedly did

    You think that Pincher's column for The Critic was good? Here is a sample from his (just posted) July 2022 contribution:

    "The first sniff finds fragrant roses and a gentle fruitiness. The first sip suggests plenty of spice (some say tar, but I suggest a more mellow liquorice or toffee) and an earthiness which belies the absence of opacity. But it slips over the tongue, warming its way to the throat with an easy astringency as the plum and black cherry flavours flower to full blossom.

    Further sips confirm the sensation making a Barolo an ideal accompaniment to manzo all’olio, pampanella or some other traditional and heavy meat dish served in the evening when work is done and pleasure crooks her forefinger."
    Hmmm,,,,, florid and vivid writer who likes a drink and has high praise for a Barolo. It'll come to me.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    kinabalu said:

    Tory sleaze is so back isn't it.

    I had to check my hairline and my waistline to make sure it wasn't the nineties.
    And that we aren't reading this on Ceefax or whatever PB used when Mr Major was PM.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Cricket back on for an hour in case anyone gave up on it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited July 2022
    Eabhal said:

    Any advice for cheapish, decent food in Venice?

    Here for one night. Hot.

    Get as far away from St Mark’s Square as you can, head over to the Arsenale, or beyond. Seek out one of the two remaining local places for local people. Eat cicchetti (Venetian tapas)


    https://theculturetrip.com/europe/italy/articles/how-to-eat-cicchetti-like-a-venetian/


    Alternatively, brace yourself, summon the 2nd mortgage and go into one of the 5 star hotels, like the Gritti or the St Regis. The food will be good (as it should be) but omg the price. So, not cheapish, sorry
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    dixiedean said:

    Cricket back on for an hour in case anyone gave up on it.

    Shame England’s top three are among that number…
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    FFS, Wales!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,653
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Any advice for cheapish, decent food in Venice?

    Here for one night. Hot.

    Get as far away from St Mark’s Square as you can, head over to the Arsenale, or beyond. Seek out one of the two remaining local places for local people. Eat cicchetti (Venetian tapas)


    https://theculturetrip.com/europe/italy/articles/how-to-eat-cicchetti-like-a-venetian/


    Alternatively, brace yourself, summon the 2nd mortgage and go into one of the 5 star hotels, like the Gritti or the St Regis. The food will be good (as it should be) but omg the price. So, not cheapish, sorry
    Cheers! Cicchetti sounds good.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Wales cruelly robbed - by their own idiocy
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Re: Venice, years ago my one & only visit was during Carnivale. So I decided to find lodging in Padua and was glad I did.

    Though I did manage to score a free meal in Venice itself. By simple expedient of leaving the center of the hubbub, and wandering in the outer neighborhoods. Where the locals were celebrating Carnivale in their own fashion. For example, a small street fair featuring kiddie rides with local kiddies dressed in Halloween costumes.

    AND another small gathering, where a bunch of gondolieri were cooking up a big pot of seafood stew. When I stood there enjoying the wonderful aroma, a guy handed me a bowl - it was great! Whole seen reminded me of Mardi Gras in New Orleans - NOT the mass crowd scenes at the big parades and fancy balls. Instead, the way they enjoy the festival out in the hoods & hinterlands.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited July 2022
    Yes, problems for the clot causing the Tory embolism. Just go, asshat.
    Twitter also awash with rumours Starmer has already been fined and they are busy clearing the decks of policy and setting up interim leadership prior to announcing. Much of it from randoms but not all of it. Interesting and fun but i wouldnt go betting on it!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited July 2022
    "Adam Kent had arrived at Heathrow Terminal 3 from Orlando, Florida, and said the sight "made a horrendous first impression of chaos" for international visitors.

    The 59-year-old said: "(There was) lost luggage everywhere, stacked between baggage belts everyone stepping over it and no one doing anything about it.

    "Being brutally honest, it looks like a serious health and safety issue. "No one visible on the ground to explain the carnage or sort out the mess, it seems like lots of luggage has not arrived with passengers and just been dumped.""

    https://news.sky.com/story/more-flight-cancellations-as-airlines-re-work-schedules-in-line-with-slot-amnesty-12644134
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    edited July 2022
    kinabalu said:

    Tory sleaze is so back isn't it.

    Good evening

    It seems so and with a vengeance

    Johnson has to be overthrown even to start draining the swamp

    I am utterly disgusted with Johnson and those keeping him in place

    Indeed I am so disenchanted I have not been contributing much, as there is just so much more in life to enjoy than constantly being angry
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited July 2022

    Yes, problems for the clot causing the Tory embolism. Just go, asshat.
    Twitter also awash with rumours Starmer has already been fined and they are busy clearing the decks of policy and setting up interim leadership prior to announcing. Much of it from randoms but not all of it. Interesting and fun but i wouldnt go betting on it!

    The Twitter rumours stem from a Skwarkbox piece where they said they’d texted him on his mobile and he’d failed to reply with a denial. Huge pinch of salt.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    DougSeal said:

    Yes, problems for the clot causing the Tory embolism. Just go, asshat.
    Twitter also awash with rumours Starmer has already been fined and they are busy clearing the decks of policy and setting up interim leadership prior to announcing. Much of it from randoms but not all of it. Interesting and fun but i wouldnt go betting on it!

    The Twitter rumours stem from a Skwarkbox piece where they said they’d texted him on his mobile and he’d failed to reply with a denial. Huge pinch of salt.
    Agreed and yep, i did see that. I have seen the rumours elsewhere and prior but not from anyone I could say is a known known. Mail running with 'witness prepared to testify if fines appealed' and retweeted by Dorries is pure machiavelli of course
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Any advice for cheapish, decent food in Venice?

    Here for one night. Hot.

    Get as far away from St Mark’s Square as you can, head over to the Arsenale, or beyond. Seek out one of the two remaining local places for local people. Eat cicchetti (Venetian tapas)


    https://theculturetrip.com/europe/italy/articles/how-to-eat-cicchetti-like-a-venetian/


    Alternatively, brace yourself, summon the 2nd mortgage and go into one of the 5 star hotels, like the Gritti or the St Regis. The food will be good (as it should be) but omg the price. So, not cheapish, sorry
    Is it worth going in January or February?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    This is some serious bowling from both ends. Looks genuiinely threatening.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Andy_JS said:

    "Adam Kent had arrived at Heathrow Terminal 3 from Orlando, Florida, and said the sight "made a horrendous first impression of chaos" for international visitors.

    The 59-year-old said: "(There was) lost luggage everywhere, stacked between baggage belts everyone stepping over it and no one doing anything about it.

    "Being brutally honest, it looks like a serious health and safety issue. "No one visible on the ground to explain the carnage or sort out the mess, it seems like lots of luggage has not arrived with passengers and just been dumped.""

    https://news.sky.com/story/more-flight-cancellations-as-airlines-re-work-schedules-in-line-with-slot-amnesty-12644134

    Doubt situation was much better at Orlando airport. MANY flight cancellations as Americans embark upon long 4th of July weekend. Exacerbating standard staff shortages: strike by Delta pilots

    Politico.com - Air travel is a hot mess. There’s not much the government can do about it.
    Prepare for another bruising holiday weekend at 30,000 feet — if you don't get delayed.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/01/air-travel-july-fourth-00043643

    Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg recently called airline CEOs to a meeting to talk about how to ease the waves of delays and cancellations that have stranded thousands of passengers this summer — during the Juneteenth-Father’s Day weekend, some 3,000 flights were canceled and tens of thousands more delayed. But so far, talking is all that’s happened.

    “Our preferred way to deal with these issues is partnership,” Buttigieg said at an industry lunch on Wednesday. He added that DOT will “use whatever authorities are available to us to ensure the customers have a good experience.”

    Aviation analysts and legal experts said even if Buttigieg wanted to crack down, there’s not much the government can do in the short term to help air travel run more smoothly.

    But so far the administration has been hesitant to flex its authorities to compel action, beyond expediting flight refunds and using its bully pulpit.

    “There’s really very little that the government can do because airlines are supposed to be a free-market business,” said airline and travel industry analyst Henry Harteveldt. “They are deregulated and they are supposed to be able to compete as they believe is necessary while not compromising safety.”

    SSI - In addition to more general impacts, will be interesting to see IF this negatively impacts Secretary Buttigieg's job performance ratings AND future POTUS prospects.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894

    Yes, problems for the clot causing the Tory embolism. Just go, asshat.
    Twitter also awash with rumours Starmer has already been fined and they are busy clearing the decks of policy and setting up interim leadership prior to announcing. Much of it from randoms but not all of it. Interesting and fun but i wouldnt go betting on it!

    It sounds unlikely that Durham police would be waiting while Starmer clears the decks of policy and lines up a successor. I'd not risk the rent money on it.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Any advice for cheapish, decent food in Venice?

    Here for one night. Hot.

    Get as far away from St Mark’s Square as you can, head over to the Arsenale, or beyond. Seek out one of the two remaining local places for local people. Eat cicchetti (Venetian tapas)


    https://theculturetrip.com/europe/italy/articles/how-to-eat-cicchetti-like-a-venetian/


    Alternatively, brace yourself, summon the 2nd mortgage and go into one of the 5 star hotels, like the Gritti or the St Regis. The food will be good (as it should be) but omg the price. So, not cheapish, sorry
    Is it worth going in January or February?
    I was in Italy one February and had a blast. In addition to visiting Venice during Carnivale, also went to Cinque Terra, and not another Ugly America did I see. Only Italian tourists, and NOT huge number of them.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Yes, problems for the clot causing the Tory embolism. Just go, asshat.
    Twitter also awash with rumours Starmer has already been fined and they are busy clearing the decks of policy and setting up interim leadership prior to announcing. Much of it from randoms but not all of it. Interesting and fun but i wouldnt go betting on it!

    It sounds unlikely that Durham police would be waiting while Starmer clears the decks of policy and lines up a successor. I'd not risk the rent money on it.
    No, i agree. Im just enjoying the twitter psychodrama. Labour having conniptions is an enjoyable change of pace whilst we await Dog Defenestration
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Certainly having a Finance Minister who rather liked very young chaps in their sports kit didn't ultimately damage the SNP very much.
    True - but a different context. This is all about Boris and is another nail in the coffin.

    For the older among us, this is all too reminiscent of poor ole "Back to Basics" John Major and the neverending series of sleaze stories that helped terminate his government.

    BJ will not be leading the Tories into the next GE. The hearts of the backbenchers are hardening.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    kinabalu said:

    Tory sleaze is so back isn't it.

    Good evening

    It seems so and with a vengeance

    Johnson has to be overthrown even to start draining the swamp

    I am utterly disgusted with Johnson and those keeping him in place

    Indeed I am so disenchanted I have not been contributing much, as there is just so much more in life to enjoy than constantly being angry
    Evening Big G

    I think every reasonable Tory wants Boris out. It is, as you say, so disenchanting (I'd have gone with demeaning) in the way the governemnt is acting.

    I'm baffled as to the astonishingly low bar that seems to have been set for Tory MPs. I applied once, and was rejected out of hand. I imagine they'd have my arm off now given the prevailing standards.

    In good times I once thought that the parlimentary party had many good people in their midst. I struggle now to think of anyone I'd trust. Such is the Boris legacy.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Are you deranged
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894

    Yes, problems for the clot causing the Tory embolism. Just go, asshat.
    Twitter also awash with rumours Starmer has already been fined and they are busy clearing the decks of policy and setting up interim leadership prior to announcing. Much of it from randoms but not all of it. Interesting and fun but i wouldnt go betting on it!

    It sounds unlikely that Durham police would be waiting while Starmer clears the decks of policy and lines up a successor. I'd not risk the rent money on it.
    No, i agree. Im just enjoying the twitter psychodrama. Labour having conniptions is an enjoyable change of pace whilst we await Dog Defenestration
    Is Labour having conniptions or are a few Tories trying to distract attention from, oh, I don't know, Boris and Chris Pincher?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    kinabalu said:

    Tory sleaze is so back isn't it.

    Good evening

    It seems so and with a vengeance

    Johnson has to be overthrown even to start draining the swamp

    I am utterly disgusted with Johnson and those keeping him in place

    Indeed I am so disenchanted I have not been contributing much, as there is just so much more in life to enjoy than constantly being angry
    I honestly think Boris's time is up. The resignation of Oliver Dowden is very significant. He won't just be twiddling his fingers. Stuff will be happening.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Certainly having a Finance Minister who rather liked very young chaps in their sports kit didn't ultimately damage the SNP very much.
    True - but a different context. This is all about Boris and is another nail in the coffin.

    For the older among us, this is all too reminiscent of poor ole "Back to Basics" John Major and the neverending series of sleaze stories that helped terminate his government.

    BJ will not be leading the Tories into the next GE. The hearts of the backbenchers are hardening.
    As standards dwindle even further under BoJo, still no sign as to how they’ll get rid of him

  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Are you deranged
    yes
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Are you deranged, so mental I had to post it twice
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Certainly having a Finance Minister who rather liked very young chaps in their sports kit didn't ultimately damage the SNP very much.
    True - but a different context. This is all about Boris and is another nail in the coffin.

    For the older among us, this is all too reminiscent of poor ole "Back to Basics" John Major and the neverending series of sleaze stories that helped terminate his government.

    BJ will not be leading the Tories into the next GE. The hearts of the backbenchers are hardening.
    I am not sure if backbenchers deserve compassion but you'd certainly hope so.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255
    OT hopefully more letter. The manoeuvres re the 1922 may be significant

    Have we mentioned https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2022/07/4991f2943f7b-russian-warships-pass-between-japans-westernmost-islands.html ? Seems a little bit.. interesting… to be trying for 2 fronts of confrontation. Or is Putin flexing his navy to seem like a serious power?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Are you deranged, so mental I had to post it twice
    You've done well as the angry toad. We all know you're an MI5 imposter.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Yes, problems for the clot causing the Tory embolism. Just go, asshat.
    Twitter also awash with rumours Starmer has already been fined and they are busy clearing the decks of policy and setting up interim leadership prior to announcing. Much of it from randoms but not all of it. Interesting and fun but i wouldnt go betting on it!

    It sounds unlikely that Durham police would be waiting while Starmer clears the decks of policy and lines up a successor. I'd not risk the rent money on it.
    No, i agree. Im just enjoying the twitter psychodrama. Labour having conniptions is an enjoyable change of pace whilst we await Dog Defenestration
    Is Labour having conniptions or are a few Tories trying to distract attention from, oh, I don't know, Boris and Chris Pincher?
    Both probably. Tories would obviously welcome the distraction but there are plenty labourites getting stuck in with their twopennoth on Starmer and whether he should go and what if he does. Given its likely to be any time in the next few days we find out there are bound to be rumours flying about
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    Re the recurrent discussion of Republican comprehension of reproductive physiology, this was quite a surprise: but then I am not a woman, so what do I know?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/02/women-accused-of-abortions-in-england-and-wales-after-miscarriages-and-stillbirths

    'Women in England and Wales who have suffered miscarriages or stillbirths are being investigated by police on suspicion of having illegal abortions, with some forced to hand over their phones and laptops for invasive “digital strip searches”.

    In one case in 2021, a 15-year-old girl who had an unexplained early stillbirth was subjected to a year-long criminal investigation that saw her text messages and search history examined. Police dropped the case after a coroner concluded the pregnancy ended because of natural causes.'
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Certainly having a Finance Minister who rather liked very young chaps in their sports kit didn't ultimately damage the SNP very much.
    True - but a different context. This is all about Boris and is another nail in the coffin.

    For the older among us, this is all too reminiscent of poor ole "Back to Basics" John Major and the neverending series of sleaze stories that helped terminate his government.

    BJ will not be leading the Tories into the next GE. The hearts of the backbenchers are hardening.
    As standards dwindle even further under BoJo, still no sign as to how they’ll get rid of him

    1922 committee.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/29/ruthlessly-organised-tory-rebels-plot-1922-takeover-to-oust-boris-johnson

    Looks ominous for BJ.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894

    OT hopefully more letter. The manoeuvres re the 1922 may be significant

    Have we mentioned https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2022/07/4991f2943f7b-russian-warships-pass-between-japans-westernmost-islands.html ? Seems a little bit.. interesting… to be trying for 2 fronts of confrontation. Or is Putin flexing his navy to seem like a serious power?

    The significant part might be China's warships, whether this means China and Russia are acting in unison or that Russia is really reminding China it is still a player.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    edited July 2022

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Certainly having a Finance Minister who rather liked very young chaps in their sports kit didn't ultimately damage the SNP very much.
    True - but a different context. This is all about Boris and is another nail in the coffin.

    For the older among us, this is all too reminiscent of poor ole "Back to Basics" John Major and the neverending series of sleaze stories that helped terminate his government.

    BJ will not be leading the Tories into the next GE. The hearts of the backbenchers are hardening.
    As standards dwindle even further under BoJo, still no sign as to how they’ll get rid of him

    1922 committee.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/29/ruthlessly-organised-tory-rebels-plot-1922-takeover-to-oust-boris-johnson

    Looks ominous for BJ.
    End days when a PB Tory uses the Graun as a source. But perhaps that is the point.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    New Zealand were short of bowling in the series. India certainly aren't
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Carnyx said:

    Re the recurrent discussion of Republican comprehension of reproductive physiology, this was quite a surprise: but then I am not a woman, so what do I know?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/02/women-accused-of-abortions-in-england-and-wales-after-miscarriages-and-stillbirths

    'Women in England and Wales who have suffered miscarriages or stillbirths are being investigated by police on suspicion of having illegal abortions, with some forced to hand over their phones and laptops for invasive “digital strip searches”.

    In one case in 2021, a 15-year-old girl who had an unexplained early stillbirth was subjected to a year-long criminal investigation that saw her text messages and search history examined. Police dropped the case after a coroner concluded the pregnancy ended because of natural causes.'

    Would the police not be better employed dealing with rape and assault cases?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    Carnyx said:

    Re the recurrent discussion of Republican comprehension of reproductive physiology, this was quite a surprise: but then I am not a woman, so what do I know?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/02/women-accused-of-abortions-in-england-and-wales-after-miscarriages-and-stillbirths

    'Women in England and Wales who have suffered miscarriages or stillbirths are being investigated by police on suspicion of having illegal abortions, with some forced to hand over their phones and laptops for invasive “digital strip searches”.

    In one case in 2021, a 15-year-old girl who had an unexplained early stillbirth was subjected to a year-long criminal investigation that saw her text messages and search history examined. Police dropped the case after a coroner concluded the pregnancy ended because of natural causes.'

    Would the police not be better employed dealing with rape and assault cases?
    Quite. The problem is in part that the old 1861 legislation against abortion was never repealed!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited July 2022
    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Joking about the issue suggests it less giving someone the benefit of the doubt than being rather cavalier about it.

    Obviously not all reputations will even be true, you have a point there, but the jest he made is on the premise the reputation is true, in which case it isn't charitable to appoint him anyway, it's stupid - being charitable doesn't require he be given authority in the party. And with concerns of this nature, you shouldn't take such a chance, when the risk is on others, some of whom might feel they cannot stop the man.

    If it was just the PM making a dark joke and he did not think the man was actually a problem I'm not inclined to condemn him for his sense of humour, but make a joke like that in politics and you have to accept what it will look like if it comes out.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    My all-time favorite James Thurber story

    https://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2011/01/thurber-tonight-my-life-and-hard-times_09.html

    My memories of what my family and I went through during the 1913 flood in Ohio I would gladly forget. And yet neither the hardships we endured nor the turmoil and confusion we experienced can alter my feeling toward my native state and city. I am having a fine time now and wish Columbus were here, but if anyone ever wished a city was in hell it was during that frightful and perilous afternoon in 1913 when the dam broke, or, to be more exact, when everybody in town thought that the dam broke.

    We were both ennobled and demoralized by the experience. Grandfather especially rose to magnificent heights which can never lose their splendor for me, even though his reactions to the flood were based upon a profound misconception; namely, that Nathan Bedford Forrest's cavalry was the menace we were called upon to face.

    The only possible means of escape for us was to flee the house, a step which grandfather sternly forbade, brandishing his old army sabre in his hand. "Let the sons -- ------- come!" he roared.

    Meanwhile hundreds of people were streaming by our house in wild panic, screaming "Go east! Go east!" We had to stun grandfather with the ironing board. Impeded as we were by the inert form of the old gentleman -- he was taller than six feet and weighed almost a hundred and seventy pounds -- we were passed, in the first half-mile, by practically everybody else in the city.

    Had grandfather not come to, at the corner of Parsons Avenue and Town Street, we would unquestionably have been overtaken and engulfed by the roaring waters -- that is, if there had been any roaring waters. . . .

    People ran out leaving fires burning and food cooking and doors wide open. I remember, however, that my mother turned out all the fires and that she took with her a dozen eggs and two loaves of bread. It was her plan to make Memorial Hall, just two blocks away, and take refuge somewhere in the top of it, in one of the dusty rooms where war veterans met and where old battle flags and stage scenery were stored. But the seething throngs, shouting "Go east!" drew her along and the rest of us with her.

    When grandfather regained full consciousness, at Parsons Avenue, he turned upon the retreating mob like a vengeful prophet and exhorted the men to form ranks and stand off the Rebel dogs, but at length he, too, got the idea that the dam had broken and, roaring "Go east!" in his powerful voice, he caught up in one arm a small child and in the other a slight clerkish man of perhaps forty-two and we slowly began to gain on those ahead of us. . . .

    SSI - Must say that I've always shared Thurber's admiration for his brave old grandfather. And always will.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,715
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Tory sleaze is so back isn't it.

    Good evening

    It seems so and with a vengeance

    Johnson has to be overthrown even to start draining the swamp

    I am utterly disgusted with Johnson and those keeping him in place

    Indeed I am so disenchanted I have not been contributing much, as there is just so much more in life to enjoy than constantly being angry
    Evening Big G

    I think every reasonable Tory wants Boris out. It is, as you say, so disenchanting (I'd have gone with demeaning) in the way the governemnt is acting.

    I'm baffled as to the astonishingly low bar that seems to have been set for Tory MPs. I applied once, and was rejected out of hand. I imagine they'd have my arm off now given the prevailing standards.

    In good times I once thought that the parlimentary party had many good people in their midst. I struggle now to think of anyone I'd trust. Such is the Boris legacy.
    Hasn't Pincher an MP since 2010?

    As was Tractor fan man.

  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Certainly having a Finance Minister who rather liked very young chaps in their sports kit didn't ultimately damage the SNP very much.
    True - but a different context. This is all about Boris and is another nail in the coffin.

    For the older among us, this is all too reminiscent of poor ole "Back to Basics" John Major and the neverending series of sleaze stories that helped terminate his government.

    BJ will not be leading the Tories into the next GE. The hearts of the backbenchers are hardening.
    As standards dwindle even further under BoJo, still no sign as to how they’ll get rid of him

    1922 committee.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/29/ruthlessly-organised-tory-rebels-plot-1922-takeover-to-oust-boris-johnson

    Looks ominous for BJ.
    Well, that has cheered me up
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Tory sleaze is so back isn't it.

    Good evening

    It seems so and with a vengeance

    Johnson has to be overthrown even to start draining the swamp

    I am utterly disgusted with Johnson and those keeping him in place

    Indeed I am so disenchanted I have not been contributing much, as there is just so much more in life to enjoy than constantly being angry
    Evening Big G

    I think every reasonable Tory wants Boris out. It is, as you say, so disenchanting (I'd have gone with demeaning) in the way the governemnt is acting.

    I'm baffled as to the astonishingly low bar that seems to have been set for Tory MPs. I applied once, and was rejected out of hand. I imagine they'd have my arm off now given the prevailing standards.

    In good times I once thought that the parlimentary party had many good people in their midst. I struggle now to think of anyone I'd trust. Such is the Boris legacy.
    Hasn't Pincher an MP since 2010?

    As was Tractor fan man.

    Pig head intake
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Tory sleaze is so back isn't it.

    Good evening

    It seems so and with a vengeance

    Johnson has to be overthrown even to start draining the swamp

    I am utterly disgusted with Johnson and those keeping him in place

    Indeed I am so disenchanted I have not been contributing much, as there is just so much more in life to enjoy than constantly being angry
    Evening Big G

    I think every reasonable Tory wants Boris out. It is, as you say, so disenchanting (I'd have gone with demeaning) in the way the governemnt is acting.

    I'm baffled as to the astonishingly low bar that seems to have been set for Tory MPs. I applied once, and was rejected out of hand. I imagine they'd have my arm off now given the prevailing standards.

    In good times I once thought that the parlimentary party had many good people in their midst. I struggle now to think of anyone I'd trust. Such is the Boris legacy.
    Hasn't Pincher an MP since 2010?

    As was Tractor fan man.

    Gunshots may be heard far and wide.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Tory sleaze is so back isn't it.

    Good evening

    It seems so and with a vengeance

    Johnson has to be overthrown even to start draining the swamp

    I am utterly disgusted with Johnson and those keeping him in place

    Indeed I am so disenchanted I have not been contributing much, as there is just so much more in life to enjoy than constantly being angry
    Evening Big G

    I think every reasonable Tory wants Boris out. It is, as you say, so disenchanting (I'd have gone with demeaning) in the way the governemnt is acting.

    I'm baffled as to the astonishingly low bar that seems to have been set for Tory MPs. I applied once, and was rejected out of hand. I imagine they'd have my arm off now given the prevailing standards.

    In good times I once thought that the parlimentary party had many good people in their midst. I struggle now to think of anyone I'd trust. Such is the Boris legacy.
    Hasn't Pincher an MP since 2010?

    As was Tractor fan man.

    Pig head intake
    A resounding success for the “A-List”, then.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,715
    Could Beergate end up in court?

    One of key witnesses has told Mail he is ready to testify under oath.

    Ex-head of DPP in court presumably defending himself?

    Popcorn time.

  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Not that I’d want to enrage HFUYD on here and summon the tanks..

    Poll in @SundayTimesScot: “On the question of whether or not they support independence, 48 per cent said they were in favour while 47 per cent were opposed. Five per cent said they did not know.”

    ..Nicola Sturgeon has tweeted her delight at the poll. But I can’t see how Scotland isn’t stuck in a cycle of despair if that continues. Even if a vote is held and won by yes, the division won’t end.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,627
    EXC: Durham Police have asked Beergate witnesses if they'd be prepared to testify in court

    At least one witness has told the police they agree to testify, if any fines are challenged

    The witness claims the Durham gathering was 'entirely social'


    https://twitter.com/avmikhailova/status/1543280745422241793
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited July 2022

    Could Beergate end up in court?

    One of key witnesses has told Mail he is ready to testify under oath.

    Ex-head of DPP in court presumably defending himself?

    Popcorn time.

    Starmer wont go to court. Junior people present might if they feel aggrieved.
    Starmer appealing it would be political suicide. Looks like he is just trying to keep his job and makes him indistinguishable party wise from Doggy McCakeBlowie
    Edit - and would make 'integrity' a bigger joke than it already is
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    edited July 2022
    Really not fancying England's chances of avoiding the follow on here if India want to enforce it. The Test looks gone. This bowling attack is genuinely special, a completely different level from NZ.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    edited July 2022
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Certainly having a Finance Minister who rather liked very young chaps in their sports kit didn't ultimately damage the SNP very much.
    True - but a different context. This is all about Boris and is another nail in the coffin.

    For the older among us, this is all too reminiscent of poor ole "Back to Basics" John Major and the neverending series of sleaze stories that helped terminate his government.

    BJ will not be leading the Tories into the next GE. The hearts of the backbenchers are hardening.
    As standards dwindle even further under BoJo, still no sign as to how they’ll get rid of him

    1922 committee.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/29/ruthlessly-organised-tory-rebels-plot-1922-takeover-to-oust-boris-johnson

    Looks ominous for BJ.
    End days when a PB Tory uses the Graun as a source. But perhaps that is the point.
    That route looks extremely circuitous and fraught with potential delay and derailment. I think it will come from within the Cabinet. A non-front runner who wants to be a front runner (the other front runners are not going to do it as they think they have too much to lose) could do it.

    Patel, Raab, or (snigger) Gove could wield the knive with a spectacular resignation, and therefore catapult themselves into consideration.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    Not that I’d want to enrage HFUYD on here and summon the tanks..

    Poll in @SundayTimesScot: “On the question of whether or not they support independence, 48 per cent said they were in favour while 47 per cent were opposed. Five per cent said they did not know.”

    ..Nicola Sturgeon has tweeted her delight at the poll. But I can’t see how Scotland isn’t stuck in a cycle of despair if that continues. Even if a vote is held and won by yes, the division won’t end.

    First Yes lead in quite a while - a mighty 1%. Surprised that she should "tweet her delight" at that TBH.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Certainly having a Finance Minister who rather liked very young chaps in their sports kit didn't ultimately damage the SNP very much.
    True - but a different context. This is all about Boris and is another nail in the coffin.

    For the older among us, this is all too reminiscent of poor ole "Back to Basics" John Major and the neverending series of sleaze stories that helped terminate his government.

    BJ will not be leading the Tories into the next GE. The hearts of the backbenchers are hardening.
    As standards dwindle even further under BoJo, still no sign as to how they’ll get rid of him

    1922 committee.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/29/ruthlessly-organised-tory-rebels-plot-1922-takeover-to-oust-boris-johnson

    Looks ominous for BJ.
    End days when a PB Tory uses the Graun as a source. But perhaps that is the point.
    Yep. BTW how many points do you think Boris is worth to the Yes numbers?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    Not that I’d want to enrage HFUYD on here and summon the tanks..

    Poll in @SundayTimesScot: “On the question of whether or not they support independence, 48 per cent said they were in favour while 47 per cent were opposed. Five per cent said they did not know.”

    ..Nicola Sturgeon has tweeted her delight at the poll. But I can’t see how Scotland isn’t stuck in a cycle of despair if that continues. Even if a vote is held and won by yes, the division won’t end.

    First Yes lead in quite a while - a mighty 1%. Surprised that she should "tweet her delight" at that TBH.
    Well, she’s taken a punt on it, so I’d imagine she wants to encourage the base as well

  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    Broad ought to be ashamed of that over - Utter rubbish
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,715

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Certainly having a Finance Minister who rather liked very young chaps in their sports kit didn't ultimately damage the SNP very much.
    True - but a different context. This is all about Boris and is another nail in the coffin.

    For the older among us, this is all too reminiscent of poor ole "Back to Basics" John Major and the neverending series of sleaze stories that helped terminate his government.

    BJ will not be leading the Tories into the next GE. The hearts of the backbenchers are hardening.
    As standards dwindle even further under BoJo, still no sign as to how they’ll get rid of him

    1922 committee.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/29/ruthlessly-organised-tory-rebels-plot-1922-takeover-to-oust-boris-johnson

    Looks ominous for BJ.
    End days when a PB Tory uses the Graun as a source. But perhaps that is the point.
    That route looks extremely circuitous and fraught with potential delay and derailment. I think it will come from within the Cabinet. A non-front runner who wants to be a front runner (the other front runners are not going to do it as they think they have too much to lose) could do it.

    Patel, Raab, or (snigger) Gove could wield the knive with a spectacular resignation, and therefore catapult themselves into consideration.
    Gove is the only one who I think might do it.

    He has form wrt Johnson of course.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    EXC: Durham Police have asked Beergate witnesses if they'd be prepared to testify in court

    At least one witness has told the police they agree to testify, if any fines are challenged

    The witness claims the Durham gathering was 'entirely social'


    https://twitter.com/avmikhailova/status/1543280745422241793

    Lolzapalooza.
    Keir's Curry night piss up with Mazza Foy and The Ginge. Legends.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,715

    EXC: Durham Police have asked Beergate witnesses if they'd be prepared to testify in court

    At least one witness has told the police they agree to testify, if any fines are challenged

    The witness claims the Durham gathering was 'entirely social'


    https://twitter.com/avmikhailova/status/1543280745422241793

    It "was entirely social" is of course an opinion.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Could Beergate end up in court?

    One of key witnesses has told Mail he is ready to testify under oath.

    Ex-head of DPP in court presumably defending himself?

    Popcorn time.

    Routine question. Is x the case? Yes. Are you prepared to say that in court? He's hardly going to say no is he? This is meaningless.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Many disastrous things are happening to the Tories. Not sure this is one

    So Boris knew this guy had a character flaw, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that the charitable, Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps Mr Pincher was given a warning before he took up the job? “No groping, please”. Which would be entirely fair

    Or are we going to ban anyone from having a job if they have “a reputation”?

    Certainly having a Finance Minister who rather liked very young chaps in their sports kit didn't ultimately damage the SNP very much.
    True - but a different context. This is all about Boris and is another nail in the coffin.

    For the older among us, this is all too reminiscent of poor ole "Back to Basics" John Major and the neverending series of sleaze stories that helped terminate his government.

    BJ will not be leading the Tories into the next GE. The hearts of the backbenchers are hardening.
    As standards dwindle even further under BoJo, still no sign as to how they’ll get rid of him

    1922 committee.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/29/ruthlessly-organised-tory-rebels-plot-1922-takeover-to-oust-boris-johnson

    Looks ominous for BJ.
    End days when a PB Tory uses the Graun as a source. But perhaps that is the point.
    That route looks extremely circuitous and fraught with potential delay and derailment. I think it will come from within the Cabinet. A non-front runner who wants to be a front runner (the other front runners are not going to do it as they think they have too much to lose) could do it.

    Patel, Raab, or (snigger) Gove could wield the knive with a spectacular resignation, and therefore catapult themselves into consideration.
    Gove is the only one who I think might do it.

    He has form wrt Johnson of course.

    I thought Raab might do it, though perhaps Gove is a likelier candidate.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    EXC: Durham Police have asked Beergate witnesses if they'd be prepared to testify in court

    At least one witness has told the police they agree to testify, if any fines are challenged

    The witness claims the Durham gathering was 'entirely social'


    https://twitter.com/avmikhailova/status/1543280745422241793

    Lolzapalooza.
    Keir's Curry night piss up with Mazza Foy and The Ginge. Legends.
    As I understand it it would be the Crown Court and a criminal conviction if guilty

    Starmer surely is better accepting a fine than that if it is true
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    EXC: Durham Police have asked Beergate witnesses if they'd be prepared to testify in court

    At least one witness has told the police they agree to testify, if any fines are challenged

    The witness claims the Durham gathering was 'entirely social'


    https://twitter.com/avmikhailova/status/1543280745422241793

    It "was entirely social" is of course an opinion.

    The witness has claimed it was entirely social all along as far as I am aware, so nothing new
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,715
    IshmaelZ said:

    Could Beergate end up in court?

    One of key witnesses has told Mail he is ready to testify under oath.

    Ex-head of DPP in court presumably defending himself?

    Popcorn time.

    Routine question. Is x the case? Yes. Are you prepared to say that in court? He's hardly going to say no is he? This is meaningless.
    Yep.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    EXC: Durham Police have asked Beergate witnesses if they'd be prepared to testify in court

    At least one witness has told the police they agree to testify, if any fines are challenged

    The witness claims the Durham gathering was 'entirely social'


    https://twitter.com/avmikhailova/status/1543280745422241793

    Lolzapalooza.
    Keir's Curry night piss up with Mazza Foy and The Ginge. Legends.
    As I understand it it would be the Crown Court and a criminal conviction if guilty

    Starmer surely is better accepting a fine than that if it is true
    Magistrates court but yes criminal conviction
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    EXC: Durham Police have asked Beergate witnesses if they'd be prepared to testify in court

    At least one witness has told the police they agree to testify, if any fines are challenged

    The witness claims the Durham gathering was 'entirely social'


    https://twitter.com/avmikhailova/status/1543280745422241793

    Lolzapalooza.
    Keir's Curry night piss up with Mazza Foy and The Ginge. Legends.
    As I understand it it would be the Crown Court and a criminal conviction if guilty

    Starmer surely is better accepting a fine than that if it is true
    Contesting it would be ridiculous but hes boxed himself in to resignation like a prize tool
This discussion has been closed.