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Public support for the rail strike is increasing – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,914
    Had to deal with an extremely aggressive driver outside Holyrood palace today, blasting horn and close passed both me and GF (cycling).

    This was a bit foolish - there are about 100 bored police officers wandering round Holyrood at the mo (Queen is here),and a couple of them pulled the driver over in the park. 6 points apparently. Did not appreciate my smug grin.

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,534
    edited June 2022

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    No government spokesperson has yet articulated to my satisfaction how they reconcile their desired "high wage, high productivity" economy with their refusal to countenance demands for higher wages.
    Indeed, if I wanted to be cruel I could repost some of the comments from mid 2021 from some PBers lauding the huge wage increases.
    Please do. The guilty suspects are still among us, although they have largely moved onto some new bollocks.

    I'll try and dig them out, I found a 2021 thread by accident the other day and well it was funny as hell in hindsight.

    Give me a couple of days.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,865
    Fishing said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brussels is ready to rip up a series of lucrative mini-deals with Britain if Boris Johnson presses ahead with a bonfire of EU red tape, the bloc’s chief Brexit negotiator has said https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/29/rip-red-tape-cancel-deals-uk-eus-brexit-chief-warns/?utm_content=politics&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1656535216-2

    The poor man sounds quite desperate.

    What *exactly* is Sefcovic whinging about now? And why does he think he has a remit over UK internal rules? Or is this just bog-standard Brussels performative sabre-rattling?

    What the UK does in the UK is little to do with him, and we know that exporters to the EU need to comply with EU rules.
    Of course this kind of bullying is one of the main reasons we left in the first place.

    But it is Brussels's default mode, as I know, having dealt with it for years in a previous job.
    Why is Britain’s intention to break a deal signed with the EU ok, but the EU’s (predictable) response, “bullying”?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,654
    edited June 2022
    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    The State Pension is either £141 or £185 per week.

    The median rail industry worker involved in the strike earns around £38k per year, or £730 per week.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

    Increasing State Pensions faster than inflation is fully justified, even though it has not been done here.
    Why?
    Because it is reasonable for a state pension and benefits to provide a reasonable possibility of a non-deprived life.

    I don't think this is very difficult. We are just way behind where we should be. From the Commons Library.



    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00290/SN00290.pdf
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    You do realise that you will someday pick up your state pension and you will find you are mighty glad it has held its own against inflation?
    I've known from the day my state pension wouldn't be worth a bucket of piss when I retire, which is why I loaded up my private pensions.
    Which with inflation at 10%+also be worth little more than a bucket of piss.
    If things turn out ok I could retire in six years when I hit 50.
    Six years of Boris. Good luck. Have you seen Threads?
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,865

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    No government spokesperson has yet articulated to my satisfaction how they reconcile their desired "high wage, high productivity" economy with their refusal to countenance demands for higher wages.
    Indeed, if I wanted to be cruel I could repost some of the comments from mid 2021 from some PBers lauding the huge wage increases.
    Please do. The guilty suspects are still among us, although they have largely moved onto some new bollocks.

    I'll try and dig them out, I found a 2021 thread by accident the other day and well it was funny as hell in hindsight.

    Give me a couple of days.
    Worth a thread header, frankly.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,992
    I suspect I may have COVID again. How do I obtain a test, without going to the pharmacy and buying one?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,534
    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    The State Pension is either £141 or £185 per week.

    The median rail industry worker involved in the strike earns around £38k per year, or £730 per week.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

    Increasing State Pensions faster than inflation is fully justified, even though it has not been done here.
    Why?
    Because it is reasonable for a state pension and benefits to provide a reasonable possibility of a non-deprived life.

    I don't think this is very difficult. We are just way behind where we should be.
    Fine but make pensioners who have other income streams pay NI on their income to help their fellow struggling pensioners.

    This is the generation that got cheap housing and free uni fees, it is time they gave something back instead of pulling the ladder from youngsters today.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,362
    carnforth said:



    For context, 40% of people don’t use trains at all. And only 30% took more than about 5 trains all year.

    Edit: the overground caveat may be inportant: are they striking?

    Excluding Underground/Overground?

    Blasphemy!
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,410
    Paris “Bataclan” bomber gets whole-life sentence

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/29/paris-attacker-salah-abdeslam-found-guilty-of-and-terrorism?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Should be guillotined. I see no moral benefit from extending his life
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    The State Pension is either £141 or £185 per week.

    The median rail industry worker involved in the strike earns around £38k per year, or £730 per week.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

    Increasing State Pensions faster than inflation is fully justified, even though it has not been done here.
    Why?
    Because it is reasonable for a state pension and benefits to provide a reasonable possibility of a non-deprived life.

    I don't think this is very difficult. We are just way behind where we should be. From the Commons Library.



    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00290/SN00290.pdf
    That graph doesn’t say anything about deprivation. Just that we have a mixed pension system.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,654
    edited June 2022
    dixiedean said:

    I suspect I may have COVID again. How do I obtain a test, without going to the pharmacy and buying one?

    TBH I think you need to be in one of the vulnerable groups to get one, or have one that you saved (expiry date is about a year iirc, though as an indicative they are probably longer-lasting - 1 year tends to be the default).

    I get free ones, but I would happily trade it for nor having the type 1 diabetes or the Hairy Cell Leukemia diagnosis (now in remission) :smile: .
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,865
    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    The State Pension is either £141 or £185 per week.

    The median rail industry worker involved in the strike earns around £38k per year, or £730 per week.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

    Increasing State Pensions faster than inflation is fully justified, even though it has not been done here.
    Why?
    Because it is reasonable for a state pension and benefits to provide a reasonable possibility of a non-deprived life.

    I don't think this is very difficult. We are just way behind where we should be. From the Commons Library.



    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00290/SN00290.pdf
    That graph doesn’t say anything about deprivation. Just that we have a mixed pension system.
    Nor is it controlled for demography.
    Maybe we have a lot more pensioners than some of those at the top.

    No, it’s time wealthy pensioners coughed up, either that or let public services collapse and watch people literally die of starvation.

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,737
    edited June 2022
    dixiedean said:

    I suspect I may have COVID again. How do I obtain a test, without going to the pharmacy and buying one?

    We bought a box of 10 LFTs online from Lloyds Pharmacy - worked out at about£1.70 per test. They have a two year shelf life.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,992
    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    I suspect I may have COVID again. How do I obtain a test, without going to the pharmacy and buying one?

    TBH I think you need to be in one of the vulnerable groups to get one, or have one that you saved (expiry date is about a year iirc, though as an indicative they are probably longer-lasting - 1 year tends to be the default).

    I get free ones, but I would happily trade it for nor having the type 1 diabetes or the Hairy Cell Leukemia diagnosis (now in remission) :smile: .
    Was just wondering if there's any way I could order one Online to arrive immediately? Don't mind paying.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    MISTY said:

    Sandpit said:

    MISTY said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This Supreme Court is running wild. This outcome is a kick in the face to peoples whose land we already took and whose sovereignty we have already disregarded- to the point of genocide.

    It’s wrong, and I fear there is more to come from these ignorant, cruel clowns.
    https://twitter.com/maggieblackhawk/status/1542147095750213633

    Another determination that could be left to individual states is, apparently, same sex marriage.

    The way this is going, the way some states seem to be a million miles away from others in social outlook, you have to wonder whether in the end some sort of fracturing/secession might actually occur.

    Leaving same sex marriage to individual states is much more complex, because say you a gay Connecticut couple (as apparently most of them are), and you move to Utah, where gay marriage is illegal, then is your marriage recognized?

    What about your gay marriage as regards federal treatment of benefits to spouses?
    As I said earlier this week why on earth would a gay couple move to Utah or say the deep South, which is where the states most likely to have majorities against gay marriage will be?
    Because they should be able to live wherever they fucking like without some God bothering fanatics declaring them second class citizens.
    If a majority of people in Utah or the deep South oppose gay marriage they will elect governors and legislators who also oppose gay marriage, that is inevitable and democracy. Given this states rights SC that is where we are heading.

    However most other states in the US will still back gay marriage so it is not exactly as if they have nowhere to go.

    How many homosexuals move to the third of countries in the world where homosexuality is still illegal?
    Gay people should have the same rights as everyone else. Many of these same states used to outlaw interracial marriage, also on a pretext taken from scripture. Laws made by democratically elected officials. Was that okay too? And if they go back to that - would you support that as their right? What if they started burning witches? Also fine as long as it is backed by a majority?
    The US is a federal country but it is still a single country where certain rights of equal treatment should be guaranteed everywhere. It is also a democracy but also a liberal Republic where individual rights are meant to be protected.
    One thing is clear: the Scotus abortion ruling has opened the way to a concerted attack on the rights of those who don't match up to the fundamentalist Christian ideal.
    Most people in the Deep South and border states of the US, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana, West Virginia, Mississipi, Arkansas, Missouri, South Carolina etc are fundamentalist Christians. They are a million miles from the coastal liberal states in social values and indeed closer to much of Eastern Europe than the rest of the West.

    You may not like that but unfortunately democracy does not always lead to liberalism winning and the USA is the United States of America not just United America
    But it does lead to two countries from one perhaps.

    Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and (maybe) Arkansas are Deep South states.

    Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee and West Virginia are NOT. They are part
    (historically, culturally, economically, politically) of the Upper South.

    Conflating one with other is NOT a confidence builder re: conclusions drawn from such "analysis"
    And that, my friend, is why your cross-pond presence here is very welcome to me that my assumptions about a foreign country are wild generalisations rather than having to actually read anything else and learn for myself!

    The Illinois Republican governor race really is worth reading about. The Democrat incumbent actually helped the Trumpist beat the moderate with attack ads and money of their own. The democrats helped select a candidate they believe is far too right wing ever to beat their man.

    Good tactics I guess, but a faint whiff of hubris
    That has the potential to backfire spectacularly in November.
    Yes I guess but it is Illinois.

    The thing about the republicans is the leadership (McConnell and McCarthy) probably dislike the Trumpists almost as much as the dems do. Maybe more.

    With Trumpists endorsed candidates overcoming moderates in the primaries in many states, what do the leadership really want in November? a massive win? or just enough to take back, say, the House?

    The SC verdict may well get them neither, Trump's SC nominations have been great for the US pro life movement and ensure the SC will rule unconstitutional any nationwide abortion right law but may well put the GOP out of power in both the White House and Congress for a decade.

    Pro choice swing states like Florida and Michigan for example will now lean Democrat.
    It depends how big of an issue pro choice really is in America, given that many states will always be pro-choice.

    The New York Times is bemoaning how Dobbs was expected to boost turnout in Tuesday's primaries, especially democrat.

    It really didn't.

    Bit early too tell re: turnout for 2022. Note that NY State NOT a good test, as yesterday's primary was just for Gov & Lt Gov, which incumbents both won by landslides despite fact that each has only been in current office a bit more than 15 minutes.

    Also plenty of voters NEVER vote in primaries in first place, because they are waiting for the "real' election even when, as practical matter, primary proves decisive to final outcome.

    There were some polls showing big swings to dems after the verdict too, to be fair, but could be kneejerk I guess.
    One thing for sure, repeal of Roe v Wade is kind of "event" capable of making a week a long time politically-speaking. Let alone four and a half months.
    30% of the US is hardcore anti-abortion. About 30% is hardcore pro-choice.

    The rest - mostly - think it's a debate about exactly when the line should be drawn, and what exemptions there should in the event of threat to the mothers' life, rape, etc.

    Some people in the 40% will think 10 weeks. Others 20. Most aren't particularly keen on abortion, but think blanket bans are a bad idea.

    Between now and the end of the year will be some pretty horrendous stories. There will be women who will commit suicide because they are unable to get an abortion. Stories will come out about teenagers raped by their uncle or teacher and forced to carry a baby to term. And there will be well publicized medical emergencies where both baby and mother die, because of the inability to secure an abortion under any circumstances in certain states.

    At the same time, the loonies will start pushing "fetal personhood laws". And anyone who has had a miscarriage (which will be most women) will start feeling the beginnings of discomfort. As will pretty much every Obsgyn and Primary Care Provider.

    All these stories will weigh on the 40%. And that's the real danger for the Republicans. If they're pushing for fetal personhood, while the Dems are focusing on the raped teenager who committed suicide... Then I think the transwars will be forgotten (for the moment).

    The Dems have caught a massive break. Whether it's enough to save them in November is another story altogether.
    What exactly is ‘hardcore pro choice’ ?
    I can imagine a few answers to that, but none which would approach 30% of the population.
    It’s pretty grim. It is abortion on demand, for any reason, right up to the 40th week. That is: to birth

    There are definitely elements in America that take this perverse and disturbing position. They have tried to get laws passed to this effect. I don’t believe it is anything like 30% of the USA tho
    Per rcs graph that's 19%. 1 in 5. Which I'm skeptical of. I reckon most of those people haven't thought about it properly. They've just looked at the question and gone, "right I'm on the prog side here, I'm opposite to those loony tunes pro-lifers, so I answer THAT, abortion legal, end of".
    Ah, OK. So you, @kinabalu have decided that what they say they think isn’t what they think, and you have instead worked out what they REALLY think, because they are too dumb to express it. I’m sure 19% of America will be grateful
    Well progressives can sometimes fail to think straight too. It does happen.

    But it's just my stab at explaining what looks to me like a suspect conclusion - that 1 in 5 Americans think an abortion done 10 mins before the baby's due should be legal.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,654
    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    The State Pension is either £141 or £185 per week.

    The median rail industry worker involved in the strike earns around £38k per year, or £730 per week.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

    Increasing State Pensions faster than inflation is fully justified, even though it has not been done here.
    Why?
    Because it is reasonable for a state pension and benefits to provide a reasonable possibility of a non-deprived life.

    I don't think this is very difficult. We are just way behind where we should be. From the Commons Library.



    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00290/SN00290.pdf
    That graph doesn’t say anything about deprivation. Just that we have a mixed pension system.
    It says that our state pensions are relatively lower than other comparable countries.

    Which they are.

    Which means that people without private pensions are relatively more deprived here than elsewhere.

    Which is not really acceptable.

    Fundamentally it's an inequality issue.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,362

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 41% (-1)
    CON: 34% (+3)
    LDM: 10% (=)
    SNP: 5% (+1)
    GRN: 5% (=)

    Via @SavantaComRes, 24-26 Jun.
    Changes w/ 17-19 Jun.

    ComRes back in the herd

    SIX months and 23 days since the last Tory poll lead...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,097
    edited June 2022

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    MISTY said:

    Sandpit said:

    MISTY said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This Supreme Court is running wild. This outcome is a kick in the face to peoples whose land we already took and whose sovereignty we have already disregarded- to the point of genocide.

    It’s wrong, and I fear there is more to come from these ignorant, cruel clowns.
    https://twitter.com/maggieblackhawk/status/1542147095750213633

    Another determination that could be left to individual states is, apparently, same sex marriage.

    The way this is going, the way some states seem to be a million miles away from others in social outlook, you have to wonder whether in the end some sort of fracturing/secession might actually occur.

    Leaving same sex marriage to individual states is much more complex, because say you a gay Connecticut couple (as apparently most of them are), and you move to Utah, where gay marriage is illegal, then is your marriage recognized?

    What about your gay marriage as regards federal treatment of benefits to spouses?
    As I said earlier this week why on earth would a gay couple move to Utah or say the deep South, which is where the states most likely to have majorities against gay marriage will be?
    Because they should be able to live wherever they fucking like without some God bothering fanatics declaring them second class citizens.
    If a majority of people in Utah or the deep South oppose gay marriage they will elect governors and legislators who also oppose gay marriage, that is inevitable and democracy. Given this states rights SC that is where we are heading.

    However most other states in the US will still back gay marriage so it is not exactly as if they have nowhere to go.

    How many homosexuals move to the third of countries in the world where homosexuality is still illegal?
    Gay people should have the same rights as everyone else. Many of these same states used to outlaw interracial marriage, also on a pretext taken from scripture. Laws made by democratically elected officials. Was that okay too? And if they go back to that - would you support that as their right? What if they started burning witches? Also fine as long as it is backed by a majority?
    The US is a federal country but it is still a single country where certain rights of equal treatment should be guaranteed everywhere. It is also a democracy but also a liberal Republic where individual rights are meant to be protected.
    One thing is clear: the Scotus abortion ruling has opened the way to a concerted attack on the rights of those who don't match up to the fundamentalist Christian ideal.
    Most people in the Deep South and border states of the US, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana, West Virginia, Mississipi, Arkansas, Missouri, South Carolina etc are fundamentalist Christians. They are a million miles from the coastal liberal states in social values and indeed closer to much of Eastern Europe than the rest of the West.

    You may not like that but unfortunately democracy does not always lead to liberalism winning and the USA is the United States of America not just United America
    But it does lead to two countries from one perhaps.

    Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and (maybe) Arkansas are Deep South states.

    Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee and West Virginia are NOT. They are part
    (historically, culturally, economically, politically) of the Upper South.

    Conflating one with other is NOT a confidence builder re: conclusions drawn from such "analysis"
    And that, my friend, is why your cross-pond presence here is very welcome to me that my assumptions about a foreign country are wild generalisations rather than having to actually read anything else and learn for myself!

    The Illinois Republican governor race really is worth reading about. The Democrat incumbent actually helped the Trumpist beat the moderate with attack ads and money of their own. The democrats helped select a candidate they believe is far too right wing ever to beat their man.

    Good tactics I guess, but a faint whiff of hubris
    That has the potential to backfire spectacularly in November.
    Yes I guess but it is Illinois.

    The thing about the republicans is the leadership (McConnell and McCarthy) probably dislike the Trumpists almost as much as the dems do. Maybe more.

    With Trumpists endorsed candidates overcoming moderates in the primaries in many states, what do the leadership really want in November? a massive win? or just enough to take back, say, the House?

    The SC verdict may well get them neither, Trump's SC nominations have been great for the US pro life movement and ensure the SC will rule unconstitutional any nationwide abortion right law but may well put the GOP out of power in both the White House and Congress for a decade.

    Pro choice swing states like Florida and Michigan for example will now lean Democrat.
    It depends how big of an issue pro choice really is in America, given that many states will always be pro-choice.

    The New York Times is bemoaning how Dobbs was expected to boost turnout in Tuesday's primaries, especially democrat.

    It really didn't.

    Bit early too tell re: turnout for 2022. Note that NY State NOT a good test, as yesterday's primary was just for Gov & Lt Gov, which incumbents both won by landslides despite fact that each has only been in current office a bit more than 15 minutes.

    Also plenty of voters NEVER vote in primaries in first place, because they are waiting for the "real' election even when, as practical matter, primary proves decisive to final outcome.

    There were some polls showing big swings to dems after the verdict too, to be fair, but could be kneejerk I guess.
    One thing for sure, repeal of Roe v Wade is kind of "event" capable of making a week a long time politically-speaking. Let alone four and a half months.
    30% of the US is hardcore anti-abortion. About 30% is hardcore pro-choice.

    The rest - mostly - think it's a debate about exactly when the line should be drawn, and what exemptions there should in the event of threat to the mothers' life, rape, etc.

    Some people in the 40% will think 10 weeks. Others 20. Most aren't particularly keen on abortion, but think blanket bans are a bad idea.

    Between now and the end of the year will be some pretty horrendous stories. There will be women who will commit suicide because they are unable to get an abortion. Stories will come out about teenagers raped by their uncle or teacher and forced to carry a baby to term. And there will be well publicized medical emergencies where both baby and mother die, because of the inability to secure an abortion under any circumstances in certain states.

    At the same time, the loonies will start pushing "fetal personhood laws". And anyone who has had a miscarriage (which will be most women) will start feeling the beginnings of discomfort. As will pretty much every Obsgyn and Primary Care Provider.

    All these stories will weigh on the 40%. And that's the real danger for the Republicans. If they're pushing for fetal personhood, while the Dems are focusing on the raped teenager who committed suicide... Then I think the transwars will be forgotten (for the moment).

    The Dems have caught a massive break. Whether it's enough to save them in November is another story altogether.
    What exactly is ‘hardcore pro choice’ ?
    I can imagine a few answers to that, but none which would approach 30% of the population.
    Here you go. The numbers are a little different to mine, but not much:


    37% for making abortion mostly illegal is about the same percentage as voted for Goldwater in 1964 or Bush Snr in 1992 ie the conservative core vote in the US
    Goldwater was rather strongly pro-choice. His wife was active in Planned Parenthood and it later transpired he'd arranged an abortion (illegally at the time) on behalf of his daughter, who became pregnant at an early age.

    He was a strong conservative, but the issue of abortion was neither defining for him nor, at that time, conservatives.
    The 1992 GOP platform however included a constitutional ban on abortion and Bush snr only backed abortion in the case of rape, incest or life of the mother to which Goldwater objected.
    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-08-07-mn-4874-story.html

    Earlier though Goldwater was much more pro life, even signing a statement in support of a human life constitutional amendment and he regularly voted against abortion in the Senate in the 1970s in the aftermath of Roe v Wade

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1893&dat=19980608&id=Bv8wAAAAIBAJ&sjid=VN0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=2688,6267306
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,230

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    The State Pension is either £141 or £185 per week.

    The median rail industry worker involved in the strike earns around £38k per year, or £730 per week.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

    Increasing State Pensions faster than inflation is fully justified, even though it has not been done here.
    Why?
    Because it is reasonable for a state pension and benefits to provide a reasonable possibility of a non-deprived life.

    I don't think this is very difficult. We are just way behind where we should be. From the Commons Library.



    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00290/SN00290.pdf
    That graph doesn’t say anything about deprivation. Just that we have a mixed pension system.
    Nor is it controlled for demography.
    Maybe we have a lot more pensioners than some of those at the top.

    No, it’s time wealthy pensioners coughed up, either that or let public services collapse and watch people literally die of starvation.

    In some countries occupational pensions (for public sector occupations) replace rather than augment state pensions, so this graph can be difficult to draw much inference from.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    edited June 2022

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,383
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    MISTY said:

    Sandpit said:

    MISTY said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This Supreme Court is running wild. This outcome is a kick in the face to peoples whose land we already took and whose sovereignty we have already disregarded- to the point of genocide.

    It’s wrong, and I fear there is more to come from these ignorant, cruel clowns.
    https://twitter.com/maggieblackhawk/status/1542147095750213633

    Another determination that could be left to individual states is, apparently, same sex marriage.

    The way this is going, the way some states seem to be a million miles away from others in social outlook, you have to wonder whether in the end some sort of fracturing/secession might actually occur.

    Leaving same sex marriage to individual states is much more complex, because say you a gay Connecticut couple (as apparently most of them are), and you move to Utah, where gay marriage is illegal, then is your marriage recognized?

    What about your gay marriage as regards federal treatment of benefits to spouses?
    As I said earlier this week why on earth would a gay couple move to Utah or say the deep South, which is where the states most likely to have majorities against gay marriage will be?
    Because they should be able to live wherever they fucking like without some God bothering fanatics declaring them second class citizens.
    If a majority of people in Utah or the deep South oppose gay marriage they will elect governors and legislators who also oppose gay marriage, that is inevitable and democracy. Given this states rights SC that is where we are heading.

    However most other states in the US will still back gay marriage so it is not exactly as if they have nowhere to go.

    How many homosexuals move to the third of countries in the world where homosexuality is still illegal?
    Gay people should have the same rights as everyone else. Many of these same states used to outlaw interracial marriage, also on a pretext taken from scripture. Laws made by democratically elected officials. Was that okay too? And if they go back to that - would you support that as their right? What if they started burning witches? Also fine as long as it is backed by a majority?
    The US is a federal country but it is still a single country where certain rights of equal treatment should be guaranteed everywhere. It is also a democracy but also a liberal Republic where individual rights are meant to be protected.
    One thing is clear: the Scotus abortion ruling has opened the way to a concerted attack on the rights of those who don't match up to the fundamentalist Christian ideal.
    Most people in the Deep South and border states of the US, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana, West Virginia, Mississipi, Arkansas, Missouri, South Carolina etc are fundamentalist Christians. They are a million miles from the coastal liberal states in social values and indeed closer to much of Eastern Europe than the rest of the West.

    You may not like that but unfortunately democracy does not always lead to liberalism winning and the USA is the United States of America not just United America
    But it does lead to two countries from one perhaps.

    Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and (maybe) Arkansas are Deep South states.

    Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee and West Virginia are NOT. They are part
    (historically, culturally, economically, politically) of the Upper South.

    Conflating one with other is NOT a confidence builder re: conclusions drawn from such "analysis"
    And that, my friend, is why your cross-pond presence here is very welcome to me that my assumptions about a foreign country are wild generalisations rather than having to actually read anything else and learn for myself!

    The Illinois Republican governor race really is worth reading about. The Democrat incumbent actually helped the Trumpist beat the moderate with attack ads and money of their own. The democrats helped select a candidate they believe is far too right wing ever to beat their man.

    Good tactics I guess, but a faint whiff of hubris
    That has the potential to backfire spectacularly in November.
    Yes I guess but it is Illinois.

    The thing about the republicans is the leadership (McConnell and McCarthy) probably dislike the Trumpists almost as much as the dems do. Maybe more.

    With Trumpists endorsed candidates overcoming moderates in the primaries in many states, what do the leadership really want in November? a massive win? or just enough to take back, say, the House?

    The SC verdict may well get them neither, Trump's SC nominations have been great for the US pro life movement and ensure the SC will rule unconstitutional any nationwide abortion right law but may well put the GOP out of power in both the White House and Congress for a decade.

    Pro choice swing states like Florida and Michigan for example will now lean Democrat.
    It depends how big of an issue pro choice really is in America, given that many states will always be pro-choice.

    The New York Times is bemoaning how Dobbs was expected to boost turnout in Tuesday's primaries, especially democrat.

    It really didn't.

    Bit early too tell re: turnout for 2022. Note that NY State NOT a good test, as yesterday's primary was just for Gov & Lt Gov, which incumbents both won by landslides despite fact that each has only been in current office a bit more than 15 minutes.

    Also plenty of voters NEVER vote in primaries in first place, because they are waiting for the "real' election even when, as practical matter, primary proves decisive to final outcome.

    There were some polls showing big swings to dems after the verdict too, to be fair, but could be kneejerk I guess.
    One thing for sure, repeal of Roe v Wade is kind of "event" capable of making a week a long time politically-speaking. Let alone four and a half months.
    30% of the US is hardcore anti-abortion. About 30% is hardcore pro-choice.

    The rest - mostly - think it's a debate about exactly when the line should be drawn, and what exemptions there should in the event of threat to the mothers' life, rape, etc.

    Some people in the 40% will think 10 weeks. Others 20. Most aren't particularly keen on abortion, but think blanket bans are a bad idea.

    Between now and the end of the year will be some pretty horrendous stories. There will be women who will commit suicide because they are unable to get an abortion. Stories will come out about teenagers raped by their uncle or teacher and forced to carry a baby to term. And there will be well publicized medical emergencies where both baby and mother die, because of the inability to secure an abortion under any circumstances in certain states.

    At the same time, the loonies will start pushing "fetal personhood laws". And anyone who has had a miscarriage (which will be most women) will start feeling the beginnings of discomfort. As will pretty much every Obsgyn and Primary Care Provider.

    All these stories will weigh on the 40%. And that's the real danger for the Republicans. If they're pushing for fetal personhood, while the Dems are focusing on the raped teenager who committed suicide... Then I think the transwars will be forgotten (for the moment).

    The Dems have caught a massive break. Whether it's enough to save them in November is another story altogether.
    What exactly is ‘hardcore pro choice’ ?
    I can imagine a few answers to that, but none which would approach 30% of the population.
    Here you go. The numbers are a little different to mine, but not much:


    19% say abortion should be “legal in all cases” - ie on demand up to birth. No questions

    I find that as disturbing as the other extreme, who want abortion made illegal even with rape and incest

    Hideous polarisation
    That's my view. I take it as read that the mother, who will be making the decision about their body and their baby, will be asking all the questions necessary. It's not necessary for me to make that situation any more difficult for them by creating extra hoops for them to jump through.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278
    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    The State Pension is either £141 or £185 per week.

    The median rail industry worker involved in the strike earns around £38k per year, or £730 per week.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

    Increasing State Pensions faster than inflation is fully justified, even though it has not been done here.
    Why?
    Because it is reasonable for a state pension and benefits to provide a reasonable possibility of a non-deprived life.

    I don't think this is very difficult. We are just way behind where we should be. From the Commons Library.



    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00290/SN00290.pdf
    That graph doesn’t say anything about deprivation. Just that we have a mixed pension system.
    It says that our state pensions are relatively lower than other comparable countries.

    Which they are.

    Which means that people without private pensions are relatively more deprived here than elsewhere.

    Which is not really acceptable.

    Fundamentally it's an inequality issue.
    It doesn’t say that.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,081
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    MISTY said:

    Sandpit said:

    MISTY said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This Supreme Court is running wild. This outcome is a kick in the face to peoples whose land we already took and whose sovereignty we have already disregarded- to the point of genocide.

    It’s wrong, and I fear there is more to come from these ignorant, cruel clowns.
    https://twitter.com/maggieblackhawk/status/1542147095750213633

    Another determination that could be left to individual states is, apparently, same sex marriage.

    The way this is going, the way some states seem to be a million miles away from others in social outlook, you have to wonder whether in the end some sort of fracturing/secession might actually occur.

    Leaving same sex marriage to individual states is much more complex, because say you a gay Connecticut couple (as apparently most of them are), and you move to Utah, where gay marriage is illegal, then is your marriage recognized?

    What about your gay marriage as regards federal treatment of benefits to spouses?
    As I said earlier this week why on earth would a gay couple move to Utah or say the deep South, which is where the states most likely to have majorities against gay marriage will be?
    Because they should be able to live wherever they fucking like without some God bothering fanatics declaring them second class citizens.
    If a majority of people in Utah or the deep South oppose gay marriage they will elect governors and legislators who also oppose gay marriage, that is inevitable and democracy. Given this states rights SC that is where we are heading.

    However most other states in the US will still back gay marriage so it is not exactly as if they have nowhere to go.

    How many homosexuals move to the third of countries in the world where homosexuality is still illegal?
    Gay people should have the same rights as everyone else. Many of these same states used to outlaw interracial marriage, also on a pretext taken from scripture. Laws made by democratically elected officials. Was that okay too? And if they go back to that - would you support that as their right? What if they started burning witches? Also fine as long as it is backed by a majority?
    The US is a federal country but it is still a single country where certain rights of equal treatment should be guaranteed everywhere. It is also a democracy but also a liberal Republic where individual rights are meant to be protected.
    One thing is clear: the Scotus abortion ruling has opened the way to a concerted attack on the rights of those who don't match up to the fundamentalist Christian ideal.
    Most people in the Deep South and border states of the US, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana, West Virginia, Mississipi, Arkansas, Missouri, South Carolina etc are fundamentalist Christians. They are a million miles from the coastal liberal states in social values and indeed closer to much of Eastern Europe than the rest of the West.

    You may not like that but unfortunately democracy does not always lead to liberalism winning and the USA is the United States of America not just United America
    But it does lead to two countries from one perhaps.

    Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and (maybe) Arkansas are Deep South states.

    Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee and West Virginia are NOT. They are part
    (historically, culturally, economically, politically) of the Upper South.

    Conflating one with other is NOT a confidence builder re: conclusions drawn from such "analysis"
    And that, my friend, is why your cross-pond presence here is very welcome to me that my assumptions about a foreign country are wild generalisations rather than having to actually read anything else and learn for myself!

    The Illinois Republican governor race really is worth reading about. The Democrat incumbent actually helped the Trumpist beat the moderate with attack ads and money of their own. The democrats helped select a candidate they believe is far too right wing ever to beat their man.

    Good tactics I guess, but a faint whiff of hubris
    That has the potential to backfire spectacularly in November.
    Yes I guess but it is Illinois.

    The thing about the republicans is the leadership (McConnell and McCarthy) probably dislike the Trumpists almost as much as the dems do. Maybe more.

    With Trumpists endorsed candidates overcoming moderates in the primaries in many states, what do the leadership really want in November? a massive win? or just enough to take back, say, the House?

    The SC verdict may well get them neither, Trump's SC nominations have been great for the US pro life movement and ensure the SC will rule unconstitutional any nationwide abortion right law but may well put the GOP out of power in both the White House and Congress for a decade.

    Pro choice swing states like Florida and Michigan for example will now lean Democrat.
    It depends how big of an issue pro choice really is in America, given that many states will always be pro-choice.

    The New York Times is bemoaning how Dobbs was expected to boost turnout in Tuesday's primaries, especially democrat.

    It really didn't.

    Bit early too tell re: turnout for 2022. Note that NY State NOT a good test, as yesterday's primary was just for Gov & Lt Gov, which incumbents both won by landslides despite fact that each has only been in current office a bit more than 15 minutes.

    Also plenty of voters NEVER vote in primaries in first place, because they are waiting for the "real' election even when, as practical matter, primary proves decisive to final outcome.

    There were some polls showing big swings to dems after the verdict too, to be fair, but could be kneejerk I guess.
    One thing for sure, repeal of Roe v Wade is kind of "event" capable of making a week a long time politically-speaking. Let alone four and a half months.
    30% of the US is hardcore anti-abortion. About 30% is hardcore pro-choice.

    The rest - mostly - think it's a debate about exactly when the line should be drawn, and what exemptions there should in the event of threat to the mothers' life, rape, etc.

    Some people in the 40% will think 10 weeks. Others 20. Most aren't particularly keen on abortion, but think blanket bans are a bad idea.

    Between now and the end of the year will be some pretty horrendous stories. There will be women who will commit suicide because they are unable to get an abortion. Stories will come out about teenagers raped by their uncle or teacher and forced to carry a baby to term. And there will be well publicized medical emergencies where both baby and mother die, because of the inability to secure an abortion under any circumstances in certain states.

    At the same time, the loonies will start pushing "fetal personhood laws". And anyone who has had a miscarriage (which will be most women) will start feeling the beginnings of discomfort. As will pretty much every Obsgyn and Primary Care Provider.

    All these stories will weigh on the 40%. And that's the real danger for the Republicans. If they're pushing for fetal personhood, while the Dems are focusing on the raped teenager who committed suicide... Then I think the transwars will be forgotten (for the moment).

    The Dems have caught a massive break. Whether it's enough to save them in November is another story altogether.
    Murders too. It is the leading cause of death for pregnant women in the USA.

    Enshrined in any pro-life law should be compulsory maternity and child support paid by the father to the mother in order that the consequences to fathers exist, not just to mothers.
    Surely if their is compulsory financial support then fathers should be able to insist on an abortion (I know you said attached to pro life bill). Otherwise you are creating an option for the mothers without corresponding rights for the fathers. These things should be reciprocal.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,737

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWTAIN
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,081
    dixiedean said:

    On topic, I suspect it's a proxy for someone giving the Government (and everyone believes it really is the Government, not Network Rail) a fight over the cost of living crisis - everyone is worried about their own wages not keeping up with inflation.

    Sympathies may change downstream if people feel the consequences of an inflationary spiral caused by rampant strike action all over the shop but we're not there yet.

    As I have said before. 5% across the public sector could be agreed tomorrow. With some moaning of course.
    It wouldn't be inflationary, as it is below inflation.
    If it were then used as a benchmark for the private sector, and for director's pay and dividends, and pensions and benefits uprating, and bonuses in the financial sector, it would be a tool for screwing down a potential wage/price spiral.
    Shame those who breach it. Or fail to meet it.
    It would have the benefit of at least being a policy. And could be seen as consistent, fair and equitably shared.
    I don't see why I should do the government's thinking job for them, but
    there we are.
    And how would you pay for it?

  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,622
    Another example (beyond abortion and Brexit) of issue polarization in electoral arena, was slavery in US in 1850s.

    Leading to watershed Election of 1860 when voters in presidential race were split four ways:

    > Abraham Lincoln & still-young Republican Party, for limiting, indeed rolling back expansion of slavery into territories, at bare minimum . . .
    > John Bell & ad hoc mostly-Whig Constitutional Union Party, for bare status quo, recognizing "no political principle other than the Constitution of the country, the Union of the states, and the Enforcement of the Laws"
    > Stephen Douglas & (mostly) Northern Democrats, for giving maximum theoretical concessions to Southern slaveocracy, tempered by the numerical superiority of Northerners in general and esp. in disputed turf such as Kansas
    > John Breckinridge and Southern Democrats, for maximum Southern demands . . . or else . . .

    Not all that surprising, that first & last options were each preferred by more voters than either of the middle ground choices. With Douglas coming in last, because Lincoln swept the North. And with Bell's support strongest in Upper South where willingness to go whole hog in defense of slavery AND opposition to the North was significantly less than in the Deep South.

  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,474
    dixiedean said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    I suspect I may have COVID again. How do I obtain a test, without going to the pharmacy and buying one?

    TBH I think you need to be in one of the vulnerable groups to get one, or have one that you saved (expiry date is about a year iirc, though as an indicative they are probably longer-lasting - 1 year tends to be the default).

    I get free ones, but I would happily trade it for nor having the type 1 diabetes or the Hairy Cell Leukemia diagnosis (now in remission) :smile: .
    Was just wondering if there's any way I could order one Online to arrive immediately? Don't mind paying.
    Pharmacists and most supermarkets sell Covid tests, so you could order online for delivery or possibly even use Deliveroo or one of the others to get them within half an hour or so (which will add to the cost, I suppose). I bought a box of five from Sainsbury's this week.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,992

    dixiedean said:

    I suspect I may have COVID again. How do I obtain a test, without going to the pharmacy and buying one?

    We bought a box of 10 LFTs online from Lloyds Pharmacy - worked out at about£1.70 per test. They have a two year shelf life.
    Thanks.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    MISTY said:

    Sandpit said:

    MISTY said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This Supreme Court is running wild. This outcome is a kick in the face to peoples whose land we already took and whose sovereignty we have already disregarded- to the point of genocide.

    It’s wrong, and I fear there is more to come from these ignorant, cruel clowns.
    https://twitter.com/maggieblackhawk/status/1542147095750213633

    Another determination that could be left to individual states is, apparently, same sex marriage.

    The way this is going, the way some states seem to be a million miles away from others in social outlook, you have to wonder whether in the end some sort of fracturing/secession might actually occur.

    Leaving same sex marriage to individual states is much more complex, because say you a gay Connecticut couple (as apparently most of them are), and you move to Utah, where gay marriage is illegal, then is your marriage recognized?

    What about your gay marriage as regards federal treatment of benefits to spouses?
    As I said earlier this week why on earth would a gay couple move to Utah or say the deep South, which is where the states most likely to have majorities against gay marriage will be?
    Because they should be able to live wherever they fucking like without some God bothering fanatics declaring them second class citizens.
    If a majority of people in Utah or the deep South oppose gay marriage they will elect governors and legislators who also oppose gay marriage, that is inevitable and democracy. Given this states rights SC that is where we are heading.

    However most other states in the US will still back gay marriage so it is not exactly as if they have nowhere to go.

    How many homosexuals move to the third of countries in the world where homosexuality is still illegal?
    Gay people should have the same rights as everyone else. Many of these same states used to outlaw interracial marriage, also on a pretext taken from scripture. Laws made by democratically elected officials. Was that okay too? And if they go back to that - would you support that as their right? What if they started burning witches? Also fine as long as it is backed by a majority?
    The US is a federal country but it is still a single country where certain rights of equal treatment should be guaranteed everywhere. It is also a democracy but also a liberal Republic where individual rights are meant to be protected.
    One thing is clear: the Scotus abortion ruling has opened the way to a concerted attack on the rights of those who don't match up to the fundamentalist Christian ideal.
    Most people in the Deep South and border states of the US, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana, West Virginia, Mississipi, Arkansas, Missouri, South Carolina etc are fundamentalist Christians. They are a million miles from the coastal liberal states in social values and indeed closer to much of Eastern Europe than the rest of the West.

    You may not like that but unfortunately democracy does not always lead to liberalism winning and the USA is the United States of America not just United America
    But it does lead to two countries from one perhaps.

    Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and (maybe) Arkansas are Deep South states.

    Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee and West Virginia are NOT. They are part
    (historically, culturally, economically, politically) of the Upper South.

    Conflating one with other is NOT a confidence builder re: conclusions drawn from such "analysis"
    And that, my friend, is why your cross-pond presence here is very welcome to me that my assumptions about a foreign country are wild generalisations rather than having to actually read anything else and learn for myself!

    The Illinois Republican governor race really is worth reading about. The Democrat incumbent actually helped the Trumpist beat the moderate with attack ads and money of their own. The democrats helped select a candidate they believe is far too right wing ever to beat their man.

    Good tactics I guess, but a faint whiff of hubris
    That has the potential to backfire spectacularly in November.
    Yes I guess but it is Illinois.

    The thing about the republicans is the leadership (McConnell and McCarthy) probably dislike the Trumpists almost as much as the dems do. Maybe more.

    With Trumpists endorsed candidates overcoming moderates in the primaries in many states, what do the leadership really want in November? a massive win? or just enough to take back, say, the House?

    The SC verdict may well get them neither, Trump's SC nominations have been great for the US pro life movement and ensure the SC will rule unconstitutional any nationwide abortion right law but may well put the GOP out of power in both the White House and Congress for a decade.

    Pro choice swing states like Florida and Michigan for example will now lean Democrat.
    It depends how big of an issue pro choice really is in America, given that many states will always be pro-choice.

    The New York Times is bemoaning how Dobbs was expected to boost turnout in Tuesday's primaries, especially democrat.

    It really didn't.

    Bit early too tell re: turnout for 2022. Note that NY State NOT a good test, as yesterday's primary was just for Gov & Lt Gov, which incumbents both won by landslides despite fact that each has only been in current office a bit more than 15 minutes.

    Also plenty of voters NEVER vote in primaries in first place, because they are waiting for the "real' election even when, as practical matter, primary proves decisive to final outcome.

    There were some polls showing big swings to dems after the verdict too, to be fair, but could be kneejerk I guess.
    One thing for sure, repeal of Roe v Wade is kind of "event" capable of making a week a long time politically-speaking. Let alone four and a half months.
    30% of the US is hardcore anti-abortion. About 30% is hardcore pro-choice.

    The rest - mostly - think it's a debate about exactly when the line should be drawn, and what exemptions there should in the event of threat to the mothers' life, rape, etc.

    Some people in the 40% will think 10 weeks. Others 20. Most aren't particularly keen on abortion, but think blanket bans are a bad idea.

    Between now and the end of the year will be some pretty horrendous stories. There will be women who will commit suicide because they are unable to get an abortion. Stories will come out about teenagers raped by their uncle or teacher and forced to carry a baby to term. And there will be well publicized medical emergencies where both baby and mother die, because of the inability to secure an abortion under any circumstances in certain states.

    At the same time, the loonies will start pushing "fetal personhood laws". And anyone who has had a miscarriage (which will be most women) will start feeling the beginnings of discomfort. As will pretty much every Obsgyn and Primary Care Provider.

    All these stories will weigh on the 40%. And that's the real danger for the Republicans. If they're pushing for fetal personhood, while the Dems are focusing on the raped teenager who committed suicide... Then I think the transwars will be forgotten (for the moment).

    The Dems have caught a massive break. Whether it's enough to save them in November is another story altogether.
    I'm not sure what you mean by 'hardcore pro choice" here.

    Hardcore pro life means believing all abortion is murder and must be illegal so the opposite of this - hardcore pro choice - would be a belief that all abortion is fine, ie there should be no controls or prohibitions whatsoever even in very late pregnancy.

    That isn't a 30% belief surely.
    Would interpret Roberts use of "hardcore" differently. Not in ideological but rather electoral terms.

    > Hardcore pro-choicers might well have caveats, questions, even objections pertaining to abortion conditions & limits, but would still VOTE in a solidly pro-choice way for reasonably pro-choice candidates.

    > Hardcore anti-abortionists would take the opposite tack, perhaps having specific issues & objections, but subsuming them in their VOTING behavior.
    Perhaps a close proxy for the general split - 30% each for GOP and Dem, vote in the bag, with 40% in play to varying extents.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,081
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    No government spokesperson has yet articulated to my satisfaction how they reconcile their desired "high wage, high productivity" economy with their refusal to countenance demands for higher wages.
    Your own sentence explains it

    A high wage, high productivity economy means higher wages WHEN JUSTiFIED by higher productivity

  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,622
    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Don't have numbers but same basic thing in USA. Likely inevitable consequence of return to quasi-normalcy.

    For example, Glastonbury in wherever Glastonbury is. And Greenwood Auto Show in Seattle. Large crowd (relative to locale) of scale not seen for some time.

    Plus (or is it minus?) fewer of those pesky masks indoors or esp. out.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732

    dixiedean said:

    On topic, I suspect it's a proxy for someone giving the Government (and everyone believes it really is the Government, not Network Rail) a fight over the cost of living crisis - everyone is worried about their own wages not keeping up with inflation.

    Sympathies may change downstream if people feel the consequences of an inflationary spiral caused by rampant strike action all over the shop but we're not there yet.

    As I have said before. 5% across the public sector could be agreed tomorrow. With some moaning of course.
    It wouldn't be inflationary, as it is below inflation.
    If it were then used as a benchmark for the private sector, and for director's pay and dividends, and pensions and benefits uprating, and bonuses in the financial sector, it would be a tool for screwing down a potential wage/price spiral.
    Shame those who breach it. Or fail to meet it.
    It would have the benefit of at least being a policy. And could be seen as consistent, fair and equitably shared.
    I don't see why I should do the government's thinking job for them, but
    there we are.
    And how would you pay for it?

    By raising pay, the tax take increases particularly as fiscal drag takes effect.

    We all know that either the government relaxes its hard line or there will be a summer of discontent stretching into the winter. As we see in the header, that doesn't always shift people behind the government.

    I see PWC staff got 9% this week:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61941595
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    MISTY said:

    Sandpit said:

    MISTY said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This Supreme Court is running wild. This outcome is a kick in the face to peoples whose land we already took and whose sovereignty we have already disregarded- to the point of genocide.

    It’s wrong, and I fear there is more to come from these ignorant, cruel clowns.
    https://twitter.com/maggieblackhawk/status/1542147095750213633

    Another determination that could be left to individual states is, apparently, same sex marriage.

    The way this is going, the way some states seem to be a million miles away from others in social outlook, you have to wonder whether in the end some sort of fracturing/secession might actually occur.

    Leaving same sex marriage to individual states is much more complex, because say you a gay Connecticut couple (as apparently most of them are), and you move to Utah, where gay marriage is illegal, then is your marriage recognized?

    What about your gay marriage as regards federal treatment of benefits to spouses?
    As I said earlier this week why on earth would a gay couple move to Utah or say the deep South, which is where the states most likely to have majorities against gay marriage will be?
    Because they should be able to live wherever they fucking like without some God bothering fanatics declaring them second class citizens.
    If a majority of people in Utah or the deep South oppose gay marriage they will elect governors and legislators who also oppose gay marriage, that is inevitable and democracy. Given this states rights SC that is where we are heading.

    However most other states in the US will still back gay marriage so it is not exactly as if they have nowhere to go.

    How many homosexuals move to the third of countries in the world where homosexuality is still illegal?
    Gay people should have the same rights as everyone else. Many of these same states used to outlaw interracial marriage, also on a pretext taken from scripture. Laws made by democratically elected officials. Was that okay too? And if they go back to that - would you support that as their right? What if they started burning witches? Also fine as long as it is backed by a majority?
    The US is a federal country but it is still a single country where certain rights of equal treatment should be guaranteed everywhere. It is also a democracy but also a liberal Republic where individual rights are meant to be protected.
    One thing is clear: the Scotus abortion ruling has opened the way to a concerted attack on the rights of those who don't match up to the fundamentalist Christian ideal.
    Most people in the Deep South and border states of the US, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana, West Virginia, Mississipi, Arkansas, Missouri, South Carolina etc are fundamentalist Christians. They are a million miles from the coastal liberal states in social values and indeed closer to much of Eastern Europe than the rest of the West.

    You may not like that but unfortunately democracy does not always lead to liberalism winning and the USA is the United States of America not just United America
    But it does lead to two countries from one perhaps.

    Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and (maybe) Arkansas are Deep South states.

    Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee and West Virginia are NOT. They are part
    (historically, culturally, economically, politically) of the Upper South.

    Conflating one with other is NOT a confidence builder re: conclusions drawn from such "analysis"
    And that, my friend, is why your cross-pond presence here is very welcome to me that my assumptions about a foreign country are wild generalisations rather than having to actually read anything else and learn for myself!

    The Illinois Republican governor race really is worth reading about. The Democrat incumbent actually helped the Trumpist beat the moderate with attack ads and money of their own. The democrats helped select a candidate they believe is far too right wing ever to beat their man.

    Good tactics I guess, but a faint whiff of hubris
    That has the potential to backfire spectacularly in November.
    Yes I guess but it is Illinois.

    The thing about the republicans is the leadership (McConnell and McCarthy) probably dislike the Trumpists almost as much as the dems do. Maybe more.

    With Trumpists endorsed candidates overcoming moderates in the primaries in many states, what do the leadership really want in November? a massive win? or just enough to take back, say, the House?

    The SC verdict may well get them neither, Trump's SC nominations have been great for the US pro life movement and ensure the SC will rule unconstitutional any nationwide abortion right law but may well put the GOP out of power in both the White House and Congress for a decade.

    Pro choice swing states like Florida and Michigan for example will now lean Democrat.
    It depends how big of an issue pro choice really is in America, given that many states will always be pro-choice.

    The New York Times is bemoaning how Dobbs was expected to boost turnout in Tuesday's primaries, especially democrat.

    It really didn't.

    Bit early too tell re: turnout for 2022. Note that NY State NOT a good test, as yesterday's primary was just for Gov & Lt Gov, which incumbents both won by landslides despite fact that each has only been in current office a bit more than 15 minutes.

    Also plenty of voters NEVER vote in primaries in first place, because they are waiting for the "real' election even when, as practical matter, primary proves decisive to final outcome.

    There were some polls showing big swings to dems after the verdict too, to be fair, but could be kneejerk I guess.
    One thing for sure, repeal of Roe v Wade is kind of "event" capable of making a week a long time politically-speaking. Let alone four and a half months.
    30% of the US is hardcore anti-abortion. About 30% is hardcore pro-choice.

    The rest - mostly - think it's a debate about exactly when the line should be drawn, and what exemptions there should in the event of threat to the mothers' life, rape, etc.

    Some people in the 40% will think 10 weeks. Others 20. Most aren't particularly keen on abortion, but think blanket bans are a bad idea.

    Between now and the end of the year will be some pretty horrendous stories. There will be women who will commit suicide because they are unable to get an abortion. Stories will come out about teenagers raped by their uncle or teacher and forced to carry a baby to term. And there will be well publicized medical emergencies where both baby and mother die, because of the inability to secure an abortion under any circumstances in certain states.

    At the same time, the loonies will start pushing "fetal personhood laws". And anyone who has had a miscarriage (which will be most women) will start feeling the beginnings of discomfort. As will pretty much every Obsgyn and Primary Care Provider.

    All these stories will weigh on the 40%. And that's the real danger for the Republicans. If they're pushing for fetal personhood, while the Dems are focusing on the raped teenager who committed suicide... Then I think the transwars will be forgotten (for the moment).

    The Dems have caught a massive break. Whether it's enough to save them in November is another story altogether.
    What exactly is ‘hardcore pro choice’ ?
    I can imagine a few answers to that, but none which would approach 30% of the population.
    Here you go. The numbers are a little different to mine, but not much:


    19% say abortion should be “legal in all cases” - ie on demand up to birth. No questions

    I find that as disturbing as the other extreme, who want abortion made illegal even with rape and incest

    Hideous polarisation

    I'd assume it was the equivalent of people suggesting covid restrictions should never be relaxed ever, in that people were selecting the most extreme option to indicate how serious they are. Of course I cannot be certain of that, but it seems rather high otherwise.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898
    edited June 2022

    Jonathan said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    You do realise that you will someday pick up your state pension and you will find you are mighty glad it has held its own against inflation?
    I've known from the day my state pension wouldn't be worth a bucket of piss when I retire, which is why I loaded up my private pensions.
    Which with inflation at 10%+also be worth little more than a bucket of piss.
    If things turn out ok I could retire in six years when I hit 50.
    A career in frontline politics beckons?
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,914
    I don't really get the big push to get new abortion legislation through in the UK following the SCOTUS decision. We are miles apart from the US on guns, abortion, NHS - we're on 12 years of Tory governments and all these principles haven't changed.

    We should only change it if we think there is something wrong with it from a UK perspective, not react to events elsewhere.

    A friend also noted that we're lucky that Brexit wasn't a "wedge" issue like so many are in the US. It actually disrupted our two party system, rather than cementing it in place.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    MISTY said:

    Sandpit said:

    MISTY said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This Supreme Court is running wild. This outcome is a kick in the face to peoples whose land we already took and whose sovereignty we have already disregarded- to the point of genocide.

    It’s wrong, and I fear there is more to come from these ignorant, cruel clowns.
    https://twitter.com/maggieblackhawk/status/1542147095750213633

    Another determination that could be left to individual states is, apparently, same sex marriage.

    The way this is going, the way some states seem to be a million miles away from others in social outlook, you have to wonder whether in the end some sort of fracturing/secession might actually occur.

    Leaving same sex marriage to individual states is much more complex, because say you a gay Connecticut couple (as apparently most of them are), and you move to Utah, where gay marriage is illegal, then is your marriage recognized?

    What about your gay marriage as regards federal treatment of benefits to spouses?
    As I said earlier this week why on earth would a gay couple move to Utah or say the deep South, which is where the states most likely to have majorities against gay marriage will be?
    Because they should be able to live wherever they fucking like without some God bothering fanatics declaring them second class citizens.
    If a majority of people in Utah or the deep South oppose gay marriage they will elect governors and legislators who also oppose gay marriage, that is inevitable and democracy. Given this states rights SC that is where we are heading.

    However most other states in the US will still back gay marriage so it is not exactly as if they have nowhere to go.

    How many homosexuals move to the third of countries in the world where homosexuality is still illegal?
    Gay people should have the same rights as everyone else. Many of these same states used to outlaw interracial marriage, also on a pretext taken from scripture. Laws made by democratically elected officials. Was that okay too? And if they go back to that - would you support that as their right? What if they started burning witches? Also fine as long as it is backed by a majority?
    The US is a federal country but it is still a single country where certain rights of equal treatment should be guaranteed everywhere. It is also a democracy but also a liberal Republic where individual rights are meant to be protected.
    One thing is clear: the Scotus abortion ruling has opened the way to a concerted attack on the rights of those who don't match up to the fundamentalist Christian ideal.
    Most people in the Deep South and border states of the US, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana, West Virginia, Mississipi, Arkansas, Missouri, South Carolina etc are fundamentalist Christians. They are a million miles from the coastal liberal states in social values and indeed closer to much of Eastern Europe than the rest of the West.

    You may not like that but unfortunately democracy does not always lead to liberalism winning and the USA is the United States of America not just United America
    But it does lead to two countries from one perhaps.

    Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and (maybe) Arkansas are Deep South states.

    Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee and West Virginia are NOT. They are part
    (historically, culturally, economically, politically) of the Upper South.

    Conflating one with other is NOT a confidence builder re: conclusions drawn from such "analysis"
    And that, my friend, is why your cross-pond presence here is very welcome to me that my assumptions about a foreign country are wild generalisations rather than having to actually read anything else and learn for myself!

    The Illinois Republican governor race really is worth reading about. The Democrat incumbent actually helped the Trumpist beat the moderate with attack ads and money of their own. The democrats helped select a candidate they believe is far too right wing ever to beat their man.

    Good tactics I guess, but a faint whiff of hubris
    That has the potential to backfire spectacularly in November.
    Yes I guess but it is Illinois.

    The thing about the republicans is the leadership (McConnell and McCarthy) probably dislike the Trumpists almost as much as the dems do. Maybe more.

    With Trumpists endorsed candidates overcoming moderates in the primaries in many states, what do the leadership really want in November? a massive win? or just enough to take back, say, the House?

    The SC verdict may well get them neither, Trump's SC nominations have been great for the US pro life movement and ensure the SC will rule unconstitutional any nationwide abortion right law but may well put the GOP out of power in both the White House and Congress for a decade.

    Pro choice swing states like Florida and Michigan for example will now lean Democrat.
    It depends how big of an issue pro choice really is in America, given that many states will always be pro-choice.

    The New York Times is bemoaning how Dobbs was expected to boost turnout in Tuesday's primaries, especially democrat.

    It really didn't.

    Bit early too tell re: turnout for 2022. Note that NY State NOT a good test, as yesterday's primary was just for Gov & Lt Gov, which incumbents both won by landslides despite fact that each has only been in current office a bit more than 15 minutes.

    Also plenty of voters NEVER vote in primaries in first place, because they are waiting for the "real' election even when, as practical matter, primary proves decisive to final outcome.

    There were some polls showing big swings to dems after the verdict too, to be fair, but could be kneejerk I guess.
    One thing for sure, repeal of Roe v Wade is kind of "event" capable of making a week a long time politically-speaking. Let alone four and a half months.
    30% of the US is hardcore anti-abortion. About 30% is hardcore pro-choice.

    The rest - mostly - think it's a debate about exactly when the line should be drawn, and what exemptions there should in the event of threat to the mothers' life, rape, etc.

    Some people in the 40% will think 10 weeks. Others 20. Most aren't particularly keen on abortion, but think blanket bans are a bad idea.

    Between now and the end of the year will be some pretty horrendous stories. There will be women who will commit suicide because they are unable to get an abortion. Stories will come out about teenagers raped by their uncle or teacher and forced to carry a baby to term. And there will be well publicized medical emergencies where both baby and mother die, because of the inability to secure an abortion under any circumstances in certain states.

    At the same time, the loonies will start pushing "fetal personhood laws". And anyone who has had a miscarriage (which will be most women) will start feeling the beginnings of discomfort. As will pretty much every Obsgyn and Primary Care Provider.

    All these stories will weigh on the 40%. And that's the real danger for the Republicans. If they're pushing for fetal personhood, while the Dems are focusing on the raped teenager who committed suicide... Then I think the transwars will be forgotten (for the moment).

    The Dems have caught a massive break. Whether it's enough to save them in November is another story altogether.
    What exactly is ‘hardcore pro choice’ ?
    I can imagine a few answers to that, but none which would approach 30% of the population.
    Here you go. The numbers are a little different to mine, but not much:


    19% say abortion should be “legal in all cases” - ie on demand up to birth. No questions

    I find that as disturbing as the other extreme, who want abortion made illegal even with rape and incest

    Hideous polarisation
    That's my view. I take it as read that the mother, who will be making the decision about their body and their baby, will be asking all the questions necessary. It's not necessary for me to make that situation any more difficult for them by creating extra hoops for them to jump through.
    It's not quite my view but I'd choose that massively over outright ban.
  • Options
    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,689

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    You do realise that you will someday pick up your state pension and you will find you are mighty glad it has held its own against inflation?
    I've known from the day my state pension wouldn't be worth a bucket of warm piss when I retire, which is why I loaded up my private pensions.
    Would it not be worth the same as everybody else's?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    edited June 2022
    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    The State Pension is either £141 or £185 per week.

    The median rail industry worker involved in the strike earns around £38k per year, or £730 per week.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

    Increasing State Pensions faster than inflation is fully justified, even though it has not been done here.
    Why?
    Because it is reasonable for a state pension and benefits to provide a reasonable possibility of a non-deprived life.

    I don't think this is very difficult. We are just way behind where we should be. From the Commons Library.



    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00290/SN00290.pdf
    Wait: we should be unhappy that people have been incentivized to save and are less reliant on the State?
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,081
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    On topic, I suspect it's a proxy for someone giving the Government (and everyone believes it really is the Government, not Network Rail) a fight over the cost of living crisis - everyone is worried about their own wages not keeping up with inflation.

    Sympathies may change downstream if people feel the consequences of an inflationary spiral caused by rampant strike action all over the shop but we're not there yet.

    As I have said before. 5% across the public sector could be agreed tomorrow. With some moaning of course.
    It wouldn't be inflationary, as it is below inflation.
    If it were then used as a benchmark for the private sector, and for director's pay and dividends, and pensions and benefits uprating, and bonuses in the financial sector, it would be a tool for screwing down a potential wage/price spiral.
    Shame those who breach it. Or fail to meet it.
    It would have the benefit of at least being a policy. And could be seen as consistent, fair and equitably shared.
    I don't see why I should do the government's thinking job for them, but
    there we are.
    And how would you pay for it?

    By raising pay, the tax take increases particularly as fiscal drag takes effect.

    We all know that either the government relaxes its hard line or there will be a summer of discontent stretching into the winter. As we see in the header, that doesn't always shift people behind the government.

    I see PWC staff got 9% this week


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61941595
    A 10% increase in state pay is only going to result in a much lower increase in income tax and then something of a multiplier.

    And PwC partners can pay their employees whatever they want
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,534
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    You do realise that you will someday pick up your state pension and you will find you are mighty glad it has held its own against inflation?
    I've known from the day my state pension wouldn't be worth a bucket of piss when I retire, which is why I loaded up my private pensions.
    Which with inflation at 10%+also be worth little more than a bucket of piss.
    If things turn out ok I could retire in six years when I hit 50.
    A career in frontline politics beckons?
    My career in frontline politics would last all of five minutes.

    My sense of humour would get me into a lot of trouble.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031

    carnforth said:



    For context, 40% of people don’t use trains at all. And only 30% took more than about 5 trains all year.

    Edit: the overground caveat may be inportant: are they striking?

    Excluding Underground/Overground?

    Blasphemy!
    If you exclude Ford, Vauxhall and Nissan owners, barely anyone drives!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031

    dixiedean said:

    I suspect I may have COVID again. How do I obtain a test, without going to the pharmacy and buying one?

    We bought a box of 10 LFTs online from Lloyds Pharmacy - worked out at about£1.70 per test. They have a two year shelf life.
    We hired a small Nepalese boy who, when asked, clasps our hands, looks into our eyes and intones his diagnosis.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898
    edited June 2022

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    You do realise that you will someday pick up your state pension and you will find you are mighty glad it has held its own against inflation?
    I've known from the day my state pension wouldn't be worth a bucket of piss when I retire, which is why I loaded up my private pensions.
    Which with inflation at 10%+also be worth little more than a bucket of piss.
    If things turn out ok I could retire in six years when I hit 50.
    A career in frontline politics beckons?
    My career in frontline politics would last all of five minutes.

    My sense of humour would get me into a lot of trouble.
    But what a five minutes it would be, eh? Worth it.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,097
    edited June 2022
    Eabhal said:

    I don't really get the big push to get new abortion legislation through in the UK following the SCOTUS decision. We are miles apart from the US on guns, abortion, NHS - we're on 12 years of Tory governments and all these principles haven't changed.

    We should only change it if we think there is something wrong with it from a UK perspective, not react to events elsewhere.

    A friend also noted that we're lucky that Brexit wasn't a "wedge" issue like so many are in the US. It actually disrupted our two party system, rather than cementing it in place.

    Not sure about that, 58% of Leavers still back the Conservatives and just 19% back Labour and 53% of Remainers now back Labour and just 16% back the Conservatives

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/06/28/voting-intention-con-34-lab-39-22-23-june
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,865
    That Raab wink is actually nauseating.

    One day historians will have a field day once the super injunctions are unlocked.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    The State Pension is either £141 or £185 per week.

    The median rail industry worker involved in the strike earns around £38k per year, or £730 per week.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

    Increasing State Pensions faster than inflation is fully justified, even though it has not been done here.
    Why?
    Because it is reasonable for a state pension and benefits to provide a reasonable possibility of a non-deprived life.

    I don't think this is very difficult. We are just way behind where we should be. From the Commons Library.



    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00290/SN00290.pdf
    That graph doesn’t say anything about deprivation. Just that we have a mixed pension system.
    It says that our state pensions are relatively lower than other comparable countries.

    Which they are.

    Which means that people without private pensions are relatively more deprived here than elsewhere.

    Which is not really acceptable.

    Fundamentally it's an inequality issue.
    WHOOOOAHHHHHHH

    You chart does not say that.

    You are a smart cookie (normally). Without knowing how much the pensioner recieves, that chart is meaningless.

    Would you rather have:

    - $0 average private pension per month, $100 from the government
    or
    - $100 average private pension per month, $200 from the government

    ?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    dixiedean said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    I suspect I may have COVID again. How do I obtain a test, without going to the pharmacy and buying one?

    TBH I think you need to be in one of the vulnerable groups to get one, or have one that you saved (expiry date is about a year iirc, though as an indicative they are probably longer-lasting - 1 year tends to be the default).

    I get free ones, but I would happily trade it for nor having the type 1 diabetes or the Hairy Cell Leukemia diagnosis (now in remission) :smile: .
    Was just wondering if there's any way I could order one Online to arrive immediately? Don't mind paying.
    Immediately?

    No,

    Sadly physics makes that impossible.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    The State Pension is either £141 or £185 per week.

    The median rail industry worker involved in the strike earns around £38k per year, or £730 per week.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

    Increasing State Pensions faster than inflation is fully justified, even though it has not been done here.
    Why?
    Because it is reasonable for a state pension and benefits to provide a reasonable possibility of a non-deprived life.

    I don't think this is very difficult. We are just way behind where we should be. From the Commons Library.



    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00290/SN00290.pdf
    That graph doesn’t say anything about deprivation. Just that we have a mixed pension system.
    It says that our state pensions are relatively lower than other comparable countries.

    Which they are.

    Which means that people without private pensions are relatively more deprived here than elsewhere.

    Which is not really acceptable.

    Fundamentally it's an inequality issue.
    It does not say that at all.

    And I'm genuinely shocked you think it does.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,362
    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    I don't really get the big push to get new abortion legislation through in the UK following the SCOTUS decision. We are miles apart from the US on guns, abortion, NHS - we're on 12 years of Tory governments and all these principles haven't changed.

    We should only change it if we think there is something wrong with it from a UK perspective, not react to events elsewhere.

    A friend also noted that we're lucky that Brexit wasn't a "wedge" issue like so many are in the US. It actually disrupted our two party system, rather than cementing it in place.

    Not sure about that, 58% of Leavers still back the Conservatives and just 19% back Labour and 53% of Remainers now back Labour and just 16% back the Conservatives

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/06/28/voting-intention-con-34-lab-39-22-23-june
    You voted Remain.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,108
    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    I suspect I may have COVID again. How do I obtain a test, without going to the pharmacy and buying one?

    TBH I think you need to be in one of the vulnerable groups to get one, or have one that you saved (expiry date is about a year iirc, though as an indicative they are probably longer-lasting - 1 year tends to be the default).

    I get free ones, but I would happily trade it for nor having the type 1 diabetes or the Hairy Cell Leukemia diagnosis (now in remission) :smile: .
    Was just wondering if there's any way I could order one Online to arrive immediately? Don't mind paying.
    Immediately?

    No,

    Sadly physics makes that impossible.
    With my patented home minibar fulfilment model, the impossible could become a reality. AI will predict what you want before you know you want it, and it will be delivered to a secure locker in your home in anticipation of your purchase.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,097

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    I don't really get the big push to get new abortion legislation through in the UK following the SCOTUS decision. We are miles apart from the US on guns, abortion, NHS - we're on 12 years of Tory governments and all these principles haven't changed.

    We should only change it if we think there is something wrong with it from a UK perspective, not react to events elsewhere.

    A friend also noted that we're lucky that Brexit wasn't a "wedge" issue like so many are in the US. It actually disrupted our two party system, rather than cementing it in place.

    Not sure about that, 58% of Leavers still back the Conservatives and just 19% back Labour and 53% of Remainers now back Labour and just 16% back the Conservatives

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/06/28/voting-intention-con-34-lab-39-22-23-june
    You voted Remain.
    Yes, I am one of the 16% but we are a minority
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,066
    dixiedean said:

    I suspect I may have COVID again. How do I obtain a test, without going to the pharmacy and buying one?

    I don’t grasp why you need one. If you are poorly then stay at home and rest until you are better.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,066

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    No. Why would anyone think it will end? It’s long been less dangerous than influenza, but it’s not going to disappear. Just as flu has been with us for a long, long time, so too will covid.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,516
    In the 1860 US presidential election, northern Democrat Stephen Douglas came in second in the popular vote, though fourth in the electoral college.

    And the man who got to announce Lincoln's victory? His southern Democratic opponent, John C. Breckenridge, who was then vice president.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,230
    Wordle 376 3/6

    ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
    🟨⬜⬜🟨⬜
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,622

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    I suspect I may have COVID again. How do I obtain a test, without going to the pharmacy and buying one?

    TBH I think you need to be in one of the vulnerable groups to get one, or have one that you saved (expiry date is about a year iirc, though as an indicative they are probably longer-lasting - 1 year tends to be the default).

    I get free ones, but I would happily trade it for nor having the type 1 diabetes or the Hairy Cell Leukemia diagnosis (now in remission) :smile: .
    Was just wondering if there's any way I could order one Online to arrive immediately? Don't mind paying.
    Immediately?

    No,

    Sadly physics makes that impossible.
    With my patented home minibar fulfilment model, the impossible could become a reality. AI will predict what you want before you know you want it, and it will be delivered to a secure locker in your home in anticipation of your purchase.
    Will your AI also predict that I will inevitably forget the password for the secure locker?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,232
    An earthquake!





  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,410

    An earthquake!





    There is a serious danger here for the indy cause

    1. There is literally no movement on YES/NO either way (to be kind to YES)

    So no moral pressure = no referendum before the next GE

    2. If anti SNP sentiment settles behind the Labour Party as the Unionist anti-indy party, that means the SNP will lose a fair number of seats in GE24, which means Sturgeon’s Plan B - GE as proxy referendum! - is also scuttled. This, I believe, is what will now happen

    Next Sindyref: sometime in the 2030s
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,410
    TV drama note

    The latest series of THE LAST KINGDOM is excellent

    Dramatic, funny, winning, gory, with great plotting and some superb acting. And high production values. It’s gone from an obscure Dark Age series to something quite special, and has got better over time

    9/10. Bravo

    ALL IS DESTINY!
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    London dubbed England’s ‘second home capital’

    Secondary property purchases accounted for 29 per cent of all property sales in London last year compared to 23 per cent in the rest of England, an analysis has found.

    The most active additional home market in London was Kensington and Chelsea where 1,200 additional home purchases equated to 52 per cent of all market activity in the borough.

    In Westminster, additional homes accounted for 48 per cent of all transactions, followed by Camden, 38 per cent, Harrow, 38 per cent and Brent at 37 per cent.

    The boroughs with the lowest percentage of additional homes are Waltham Forest, Lewisham, and Bexley, in all of which they account for 21 per cent of market activity.

    https://www.mortgagesolutions.co.uk/news/2022/06/29/london-dubbed-englands-second-home-capital/

  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,232
    Leon said:

    An earthquake!





    There is a serious danger here for the indy cause

    1. There is literally no movement on YES/NO either way (to be kind to YES)

    So no moral pressure = no referendum before the next GE

    2. If anti SNP sentiment settles behind the Labour Party as the Unionist anti-indy party, that means the SNP will lose a fair number of seats in GE24, which means Sturgeon’s Plan B - GE as proxy referendum! - is also scuttled. This, I believe, is what will now happen

    Next Sindyref: sometime in the 2030s
    'There is a serious danger here for the indy cause'

    Essentially all your posts on the subject under various names for the last 10 years.

    Not entirely confident in Election Maps UK's Scotch methodology, but pretty sure it beats your's.


  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,410

    Leon said:

    An earthquake!





    There is a serious danger here for the indy cause

    1. There is literally no movement on YES/NO either way (to be kind to YES)

    So no moral pressure = no referendum before the next GE

    2. If anti SNP sentiment settles behind the Labour Party as the Unionist anti-indy party, that means the SNP will lose a fair number of seats in GE24, which means Sturgeon’s Plan B - GE as proxy referendum! - is also scuttled. This, I believe, is what will now happen

    Next Sindyref: sometime in the 2030s
    'There is a serious danger here for the indy cause'

    Essentially all your posts on the subject under various names for the last 10 years.

    Not entirely confident in Election Maps UK's Scotch methodology, but pretty sure it beats your's.


    And yet, I am right, and you know it. And it galls you. No Sindyref til the 2030s. Soz boz
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,232
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    An earthquake!




    I know you'r equivering evry time

    There is a serious danger here for the indy cause

    1. There is literally no movement on YES/NO either way (to be kind to YES)

    So no moral pressure = no referendum before the next GE

    2. If anti SNP sentiment settles behind the Labour Party as the Unionist anti-indy party, that means the SNP will lose a fair number of seats in GE24, which means Sturgeon’s Plan B - GE as proxy referendum! - is also scuttled. This, I believe, is what will now happen

    Next Sindyref: sometime in the 2030s
    'There is a serious danger here for the indy cause'

    Essentially all your posts on the subject under various names for the last 10 years.

    Not entirely confident in Election Maps UK's Scotch methodology, but pretty sure it beats your's.


    And yet, I am right, and you know it. And it galls you. No Sindyref til the 2030s. Soz boz
    Low information prediction fathered by a deep yearning for it to be true.

    Polling projection immediately contradicts low information prediction.

    'And yet, I am right'

    Rinse, repeat.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    Norrie into the 3rd round

    Norrie Knoll this year then

    Was looking dicey earlier. I feel a bit for Norris. The hype has been all Murray, yet Norris is ranked in the top 10, and seeded 9 here. BBC particularly bad on this score.
    They always have been it seems to me. They are utterly obsessed with "celebrities" in a way that would make Heat magazine blush, every other show ends up as "Celebrity XYZ" it seems, and their sport reporting is no different.

    When Murray himself was doing well early in his career, the BBC were always still going on about Henman, despite by then Murray clearly being the better player. If Knoll becomes a great player in a decades time no doubt they'll still be talking about him when he's past his time rather than whichever good new player has come on the stage.
    I just find it astonishing that we have a top 10 player that most have barely heard about, at least if they listen/watch tennis via the BBC. Defund them.
    Murray has a story which people are interested in. Ex Wimbledon champ who was at Dunblane, laid low by surgery won't give up now at Wimbledon again.

    I find watching tennis pretty boring (unless John McEnroe is commentating) and I'm interested in Murray's fate.

    Norrie? Who TF cares.
    You are just affirming what I said. That is the Heat magazine school of "journalism" - here is a celebrity you might be interested in, now listen to this gossip.

    If the BBC actually stood by it's supposed principles of "inform, educate, entertain" then their tennis coverage should be informing and educating people about the performances of Norrie etc and not just piggybacking on whatever celebrities people are already interested in.

    The BBC stopped bothering to be a genuine public service broadcaster many years ago. Too hard it seems. Far easier to rely upon "the talent" of celebrities to coast upon to "entertain" than actually doing the research and work required to inform or educate.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,410

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    An earthquake!




    I know you'r equivering evry time

    There is a serious danger here for the indy cause

    1. There is literally no movement on YES/NO either way (to be kind to YES)

    So no moral pressure = no referendum before the next GE

    2. If anti SNP sentiment settles behind the Labour Party as the Unionist anti-indy party, that means the SNP will lose a fair number of seats in GE24, which means Sturgeon’s Plan B - GE as proxy referendum! - is also scuttled. This, I believe, is what will now happen

    Next Sindyref: sometime in the 2030s
    'There is a serious danger here for the indy cause'

    Essentially all your posts on the subject under various names for the last 10 years.

    Not entirely confident in Election Maps UK's Scotch methodology, but pretty sure it beats your's.


    And yet, I am right, and you know it. And it galls you. No Sindyref til the 2030s. Soz boz
    Low information prediction fathered by a deep yearning for it to be true.

    Polling projection immediately contradicts low information prediction.

    'And yet, I am right'

    Rinse, repeat.
    Strangely, you missed this bit


    POLL: Should a referendum on Scottish independence be held in October 2023 (The Scottish Government's proposed timetable):

    Should: 40%
    Should Not: 53%

    Via @SavantaComRes, On 23-28 June.
  • Options
    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    The State Pension is either £141 or £185 per week.

    The median rail industry worker involved in the strike earns around £38k per year, or £730 per week.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

    Increasing State Pensions faster than inflation is fully justified, even though it has not been done here.
    Why?
    Because it is reasonable for a state pension and benefits to provide a reasonable possibility of a non-deprived life.

    I don't think this is very difficult. We are just way behind where we should be. From the Commons Library.



    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00290/SN00290.pdf
    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Leon said:

    An earthquake!





    There is a serious danger here for the indy cause

    1. There is literally no movement on YES/NO either way (to be kind to YES)

    So no moral pressure = no referendum before the next GE

    2. If anti SNP sentiment settles behind the Labour Party as the Unionist anti-indy party, that means the SNP will lose a fair number of seats in GE24, which means Sturgeon’s Plan B - GE as proxy referendum! - is also scuttled. This, I believe, is what will now happen

    Next Sindyref: sometime in the 2030s
    'There is a serious danger here for the indy cause'

    Essentially all your posts on the subject under various names for the last 10 years.

    Not entirely confident in Election Maps UK's Scotch methodology, but pretty sure it beats your's.


    The fact they are using the defunct boundaries does not inspire confidence.

  • Options

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,622
    from Njegos by Djilas -

    If that plaster of Paris cast of Mahmud Pasha that they show in the museum in Cetinje is authentic, no one would discern in those spare, intelligent, rather ironic features that terrible foe of Montenegro and Bishop Petar [Njegos's uncle & predecessor], the Vizir of Scutari as he really was. . . .

    The Vizir's first campaign [against Montenegro] took place in June, 1785.

    Bishop Petar was away on an ill-timed trip to Russia, during which the Vizir bribed many tribal chieftains and set the already feuding tribes at odds with each other even more than they had been. He then struck at the rebellious part of Montenegro, including the tribes of Katuni, burning everything, down to the hitching posts. He got to Cetinje without too much trouble and burned down what there was of the monastery, which had been rebuilt after two earlier demolitions. Unable to maintain himself for long in the wastes of Katuni - Cetinje had but one well - the headstrong Vizir turned back by the shortest route, paying no attention to the Venetian border, and leaving in his wake smoldering ruins and corpses as he proceeded through the lands of the Pastrovici.

    Devastated, Montenegro remained what it had been - a land of free and lose tribes.

    This had been the third Turkish attack on Cetinje since the end of the seventeenth century, when it had become the hearth of Montenegrin freedom. For Mahmud Pasha it was his first visit. The second time only his head was to come.


  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,622

    London dubbed England’s ‘second home capital’

    Secondary property purchases accounted for 29 per cent of all property sales in London last year compared to 23 per cent in the rest of England, an analysis has found.

    The most active additional home market in London was Kensington and Chelsea where 1,200 additional home purchases equated to 52 per cent of all market activity in the borough.

    In Westminster, additional homes accounted for 48 per cent of all transactions, followed by Camden, 38 per cent, Harrow, 38 per cent and Brent at 37 per cent.

    The boroughs with the lowest percentage of additional homes are Waltham Forest, Lewisham, and Bexley, in all of which they account for 21 per cent of market activity.

    https://www.mortgagesolutions.co.uk/news/2022/06/29/london-dubbed-englands-second-home-capital/

    Goes toward confirming your surmise re: K&C and Westminster.

    Even lowest percents are pretty high. Do people purchasing property for rentals make up part of picture there & elsewhere?
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435

    London dubbed England’s ‘second home capital’

    Secondary property purchases accounted for 29 per cent of all property sales in London last year compared to 23 per cent in the rest of England, an analysis has found.

    The most active additional home market in London was Kensington and Chelsea where 1,200 additional home purchases equated to 52 per cent of all market activity in the borough.

    In Westminster, additional homes accounted for 48 per cent of all transactions, followed by Camden, 38 per cent, Harrow, 38 per cent and Brent at 37 per cent.

    The boroughs with the lowest percentage of additional homes are Waltham Forest, Lewisham, and Bexley, in all of which they account for 21 per cent of market activity.

    https://www.mortgagesolutions.co.uk/news/2022/06/29/london-dubbed-englands-second-home-capital/

    Goes toward confirming your surmise re: K&C and Westminster.

    Even lowest percents are pretty high. Do people purchasing property for rentals make up part of picture there & elsewhere?
    The whole system of property taxation is outdated and needs gripping, however like many issues facing the UK (caring for aged, the House of Lords) it will just get kicked down the road......
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,474
    Bad news on the medical front:-

    NHS privatisation drive linked to rise in avoidable deaths, study suggests
    Outsourcing accelerated by Lansley’s shakeup in 2012 linked to drop in care quality in landmark review

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/29/nhs-privatisation-drive-linked-to-rise-in-avoidable-deaths-study-suggests
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,474
    More bad news on the medical front:-

    The shortage of GPs in England is set to become worse, with more than one in four posts predicted to be vacant within a decade, an analysis suggests.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61986441
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,791

    More bad news on the medical front:-

    The shortage of GPs in England is set to become worse, with more than one in four posts predicted to be vacant within a decade, an analysis suggests.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61986441

    Why is it so difficult to get a place at medical school? If there's a shortage, there should be more places available.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,474
    edited June 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    More bad news on the medical front:-

    The shortage of GPs in England is set to become worse, with more than one in four posts predicted to be vacant within a decade, an analysis suggests.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61986441

    Why is it so difficult to get a place at medical school? If there's a shortage, there should be more places available.
    To be fair, there have recently been opened five more medical schools, but it is still too little.

    ETA the new medical schools are:-
    Anglia Ruskin University
    Kent & Medway Medical School
    Edge Hill University
    University of Lincoln
    University of Sunderland
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    So, they think they are ill, they take a test with a very low FPR so there is a 99% chance they were right, but in Bartworld they are hypochondriacs?
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Ruthlessly organised blah blah blah... but I am seriously excited to see Aaron Bell's name mentioned as a potential leader. I've got bets on him at about 800/1.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/29/ruthlessly-organised-tory-rebels-plot-1922-takeover-to-oust-boris-johnson
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Jonathan said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is more people (who are likely working from home as a result if not in any case) being in favour of strikes the same as those, especially those on PB, who live in charming houses with large gardens and perhaps an apple orchard to wander around being in favour of lockdowns?

    Nah, I'm normally anti strikes and would like to see most unions proscribed, however I flipped to pro strike when the government confirmed pensioners would get their 10%+ triple lock increase.

    So the workers who pay for the pensioners have to earn less and pay more task for the Tory client vote.

    They can get fucked.
    The State Pension is either £141 or £185 per week.

    The median rail industry worker involved in the strike earns around £38k per year, or £730 per week.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

    Increasing State Pensions faster than inflation is fully justified, even though it has not been done here.
    Why?
    Because it is reasonable for a state pension and benefits to provide a reasonable possibility of a non-deprived life.

    I don't think this is very difficult. We are just way behind where we should be. From the Commons Library.



    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00290/SN00290.pdf
    Wait: we should be unhappy that people have been incentivized to save and are less reliant on the State?
    A decent basic state pension is a very good idea because not everyone can afford to save heaps of money for their retirement. And the problem will continue to get worse over time, firstly because cost of living (and especially cost of housing, leading to there being more people still paying rents or long-term mortgages into old age,) and secondly because nearly all occupational pensions are now money purchase schemes that require a lot of investment to obtain a decent return, and even then rely significantly on luck with respect to investment performance.

    That said, the post to which you replied only tells us so much in any event. Yes, we can see that nearly all pensioner income in Slovakia is kindly provided by the Government - but that doesn't mean that what's provided is any bloody good. You'd need an entirely different chart comparing pensioner and working age incomes to do that, and we know that median pensioner incomes - once accounting for housing costs, given that most of the retired are outright owner-occupiers - have been higher than median working age incomes in the UK for some years. So, unsurprisingly, it's rather more complicated than one bar chart would make it seem.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,960

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    I'm not for any legal restrictions, but wanting medical staff who knowingly have covid to head into hospitals is just daft. Would you want them in with the flu ?
    +ve test = wfh in our office, and we're all back in.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,758
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    Andy_JS said:

    More bad news on the medical front:-

    The shortage of GPs in England is set to become worse, with more than one in four posts predicted to be vacant within a decade, an analysis suggests.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61986441

    Why is it so difficult to get a place at medical school? If there's a shortage, there should be more places available.
    It isn't particularly hard to get a place at Medical School, 75% that apply get in, albeit some at the second attempt.

    There is a question over whether those with lower marks would do OK, but we will find out that with the new intake, as clearly their marks are inflated over earlier cohorts.

    Expanding training capacity would require a lot of investment though probably worth it. Might be a good idea to have an NHS bursary to cover the fees and tie into the NHS post graduation.

    The problem is the same as teaching though, one of retention. Why is it that so few want to do it for long? That is the question that needs addressing.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,030
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    More bad news on the medical front:-

    The shortage of GPs in England is set to become worse, with more than one in four posts predicted to be vacant within a decade, an analysis suggests.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61986441

    Why is it so difficult to get a place at medical school? If there's a shortage, there should be more places available.
    It isn't particularly hard to get a place at Medical School, 75% that apply get in, albeit some at the second attempt.

    There is a question over whether those with lower marks would do OK, but we will find out that with the new intake, as clearly their marks are inflated over earlier cohorts.

    Expanding training capacity would require a lot of investment though probably worth it. Might be a good idea to have an NHS bursary to cover the fees and tie into the NHS post graduation.

    The problem is the same as teaching though, one of retention. Why is it that so few want to do it for long? That is the question that needs addressing.
    Good morning everybody! Not as bright this morning!
    I suggest], having seen medicine, over the years that for many many people actually practising medicine isn't as glamorous as it seems to be. I also get the impression that it can be quite isolating; for much of the time you seem to be mixing only with other doctors. I wouldn't have wished to spend all my time mixing with other pharmacists!
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,534
    WaPo homepage crystallizes the hellscape quite well



    https://twitter.com/maggieserota/status/1542324890728075265
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    More bad news on the medical front:-

    The shortage of GPs in England is set to become worse, with more than one in four posts predicted to be vacant within a decade, an analysis suggests.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61986441

    Why is it so difficult to get a place at medical school? If there's a shortage, there should be more places available.
    It isn't particularly hard to get a place at Medical School, 75% that apply get in, albeit some at the second attempt.

    There is a question over whether those with lower marks would do OK, but we will find out that with the new intake, as clearly their marks are inflated over earlier cohorts.

    Expanding training capacity would require a lot of investment though probably worth it. Might be a good idea to have an NHS bursary to cover the fees and tie into the NHS post graduation.

    The problem is the same as teaching though, one of retention. Why is it that so few want to do it for long? That is the question that needs addressing.
    Spot on.

    It is not just your profession that has retention problems: it is near universal at the moment. Employers have to work very hard to make employees happy.

    My main worry with medic and veterinary education is that you are attracting the wrong kind of applicants. Tefal heads* do not (necessarily) good doctors/vets make. People skills are often just as important.

    (*showing my age there)
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,269
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    My colleagues are not shirkers.
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    My colleagues are not shirkers.
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    My colleagues are not shirkers.
    Don't know about where you are, but around here there's been a big increase in hospital admissions because of covid the last couple of weeks, now including in intensive care. It's still a lot lower than previous peaks, but it's rising quickly when at this time of year last year and the year before it was falling.

    A particular problem is that vulnerable people (eg cancer patients) who in the last waves managed to avoid getting infected at all, are now getting infected (partly because of relaxed measures in and around hospitals). It might be a struggle to keep them alive.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,030
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    My colleagues are not shirkers.
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    My colleagues are not shirkers.
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    My colleagues are not shirkers.
    Don't know about where you are, but around here there's been a big increase in hospital admissions because of covid the last couple of weeks, now including in intensive care. It's still a lot lower than previous peaks, but it's rising quickly when at this time of year last year and the year before it was falling.

    A particular problem is that vulnerable people (eg cancer patients) who in the last waves managed to avoid getting infected at all, are now getting infected (partly because of relaxed measures in and around hospitals). It might be a struggle to keep them alive.
    The care home where my sister lives is back in lockdown. I think it's been locked down over half the time in the last six months.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,269

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    My colleagues are not shirkers.
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    My colleagues are not shirkers.
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    My colleagues are not shirkers.
    Don't know about where you are, but around here there's been a big increase in hospital admissions because of covid the last couple of weeks, now including in intensive care. It's still a lot lower than previous peaks, but it's rising quickly when at this time of year last year and the year before it was falling.

    A particular problem is that vulnerable people (eg cancer patients) who in the last waves managed to avoid getting infected at all, are now getting infected (partly because of relaxed measures in and around hospitals). It might be a struggle to keep them alive.
    The care home where my sister lives is back in lockdown. I think it's been locked down over half the time in the last six months.
    That is really sad.
  • Options
    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    Well it's finally got me after all these years.

    Line was pretty faint on the LFD, I did another and same result.

    My colleagues are dropping like flies also in the NHS department I work in. Some for the first time like myself, others 2nd or 3rd time.

    Only a sickly headache and runny nose so far. I feel warmish at times but temperature not that high. Fingers crossed I get through it ok and quickly.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    More bad news on the medical front:-

    The shortage of GPs in England is set to become worse, with more than one in four posts predicted to be vacant within a decade, an analysis suggests.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61986441

    Why is it so difficult to get a place at medical school? If there's a shortage, there should be more places available.
    It isn't particularly hard to get a place at Medical School, 75% that apply get in, albeit some at the second attempt.

    There is a question over whether those with lower marks would do OK, but we will find out that with the new intake, as clearly their marks are inflated over earlier cohorts.

    Expanding training capacity would require a lot of investment though probably worth it. Might be a good idea to have an NHS bursary to cover the fees and tie into the NHS post graduation.

    The problem is the same as teaching though, one of retention. Why is it that so few want to do it for long? That is the question that needs addressing.
    Is the retention issue related to the feminisation of these subjects in recent decades?

    There’s now more lady doctors than before, they are marrying each other and are happy financially to take a decade out when they have children?

    More training places is obviously important, but the current issue reminds me of the airline looking for A380 captains. They don’t just grow on trees, they take a decade or more of training and experience.

    (I’ve shared before my idea of setting up a full NHS teaching hospital somewhere like Mumbai or Manila. Staffed by a combination of experienced local staff and UK retirees on short-term contracts, with long-term UK visas available to graduates)
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    An earthquake!





    Baxter, on the new boundaries, gives:

    SNP 51 seats
    SLD 2 seats
    SLab 2 seats
    SCon 2 seats
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,030
    edited June 2022
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    My colleagues are not shirkers.
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    My colleagues are not shirkers.
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    covid LFT test positivity now above 10%. 14 in London

    12% of the medical staff in my dept are off with it this week. Leicester schools break up on the 8th July, so will hit at peak holiday time here. Quite a lot of admissions too with respiratory symptoms.
    Yeh gads. Will this ever end?

    QTWAIN.

    Shirkers with a line on a test but who aren't actually sick should get themselves into work. And stop being hypochondriacs taking tests in the first place.
    My colleagues are not shirkers.
    Don't know about where you are, but around here there's been a big increase in hospital admissions because of covid the last couple of weeks, now including in intensive care. It's still a lot lower than previous peaks, but it's rising quickly when at this time of year last year and the year before it was falling.

    A particular problem is that vulnerable people (eg cancer patients) who in the last waves managed to avoid getting infected at all, are now getting infected (partly because of relaxed measures in and around hospitals). It might be a struggle to keep them alive.
    The care home where my sister lives is back in lockdown. I think it's been locked down over half the time in the last six months.
    That is really sad.
    Yes; the only visitor she gets most of the time is one of her daughters. Even her grandchildren can't come!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    More bad news on the medical front:-

    The shortage of GPs in England is set to become worse, with more than one in four posts predicted to be vacant within a decade, an analysis suggests.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61986441

    Why is it so difficult to get a place at medical school? If there's a shortage, there should be more places available.
    It isn't particularly hard to get a place at Medical School, 75% that apply get in, albeit some at the second attempt.

    There is a question over whether those with lower marks would do OK, but we will find out that with the new intake, as clearly their marks are inflated over earlier cohorts.

    Expanding training capacity would require a lot of investment though probably worth it. Might be a good idea to have an NHS bursary to cover the fees and tie into the NHS post graduation.

    The problem is the same as teaching though, one of retention. Why is it that so few want to do it for long? That is the question that needs addressing.
    Is the retention issue related to the feminisation of these subjects in recent decades?

    There’s now more lady doctors than before, they are marrying each other and are happy financially to take a decade out when they have children?

    More training places is obviously important, but the current issue reminds me of the airline looking for A380 captains. They don’t just grow on trees, they take a decade or more of training and experience.

    (I’ve shared before my idea of setting up a full NHS teaching hospital somewhere like Mumbai or Manila. Staffed by a combination of experienced local staff and UK retirees on short-term contracts, with long-term UK visas available to graduates)
    Teaching has always been ‘feminised’ but teachers are leaving at a higher rate than ever before.

    Moreover unlike medicine teacher training places are contracting rapidly.

    On top of this, pupil numbers are increasing fast.

    It is not looking good.

    And it’s largely due to the gross incompetence and arrogance of multiple governments over many years.

    But not one of them will ever have sufficient self awareness or integrity to admit it.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited June 2022
    New Holyrood constituency VI

    SNP 46% (nc)
    SLab 25% (nc)
    SCon 18% (nc)
    SLD 8% (+1)
    oth 4% (nc)

    Savanta ComRes; 1,029; 23-28 June

    Would you take part in a referendum held without a Section 30 order?

    Would 67%
    Would not 17%

    Whoops!! Douglas Ross needs a wee rethink.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    We've got at least 16 months of utterly tedious Sindyref chat now to look forward to, haven't we?

    If only Unionists hadn’t behaved like total shits since you won the last one. You’ve only got yourselves to blame.
This discussion has been closed.