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The polling on Roe v Wade looks bad for the Supreme Court – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    A fantastic conversation between Michael Atherton and Nasser Hussain, about leadership and captaincy.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Very happy to have a chat about trans people in sport when the Government start doing something on CoL or the economy, until then it's just a wedge issue

    Horse it doesnt really matter what conditions you impose, it is an issue that exercises some and they are going to discuss it and demand this or that over it. That will have some effect at the margins. Like, for example, if Wes was leader. The vast majority wont care he is gay. A few will, and that might be enough to sway some seats perhaps. Anything that exercises more than a couple percent can influence outcomes. Trans issues are not a majority concern but many more than a couple % are exercised by the issue.
    In the end sport will resolve the issue, because they have to. And they will do it themselves because various activists have pre-written ideological boilerplates that will not sufficiently match the needs of the particular context.

    And it will continue to evolve.

    Imo.
    They will, yes, but its an output of the wider questions and issues over trans rights, womens rights etc etc.
    Agreed.

    But the arena of decision will sports' governing bodies, rather than declarations by activists.
    And if the decisions of the sports governing bodies don’t match the desires of activists from *both* sides of this debate, it will end I court.

    Since the two sides are irreconcilable, that means legal action is inevitable.

    Perhaps sort out the law on this might be an idea? No, what we need is a bunch of judges and a law written in 1789. That would work….
  • https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1540750581223940096

    The Mail can't wait for Keir Starmer to be found guilty. They've spent time and money proving the forces do issue retrospective fines.

    I am sure they will be doing the same for Johnson and Cummings.

    Well they did for Johnson. You can argue that every fine ever issued is retrospective, as they are issued after the event. I hope Starmer doesn’t get a fine, although I would be happy with a bit of criticism, as frankly I don’t think they were following all the guidance that night, and Starmer constantly pressed for more restrictions.
    But right now I’d like the option to vote for him - seems a better human than the current pm, or indeed most of the party of government.
    I meant the Mail, not the Police.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    That's unfair. He has a big interest in polling for whatever party.

    It's just he doesn't get politics, per se.

    He seems to have been rather quiet recently, I hope he's OK. Infuriating though he can be I actually have a sneaking regard for him.
    Probably because he gets abused and bulled by a few posters who then enjoy playing the victim when it suits them.

    HYUFD is one of the best posters here.
    He isn't necessarily the latter, although he is valuable for his insights into polling which are extraordinary. And to be honest all the 'bullying' I see is of people getting mad at him for continuing to persist with totally wrong statements.

    But having met him in person many years before either of us were on PB, he's not as bad as he sometimes comes across and he must be very downbeat after Thursday.
    He gets bullied and targeted constantly. Including two users who joyfully tried to get him to leave the other day. I hope he did not listen.

    He's a fine chap and very polite. And actually nice unlike some of the other Tory cretins here
    Persistently telling experts they are wrong, when they are right, and refusing to acknowledge facts when they are demonstrated to him, is the opposite of politeness.

    Fair language and good manners are not the same thing.

    But as I say, that's not necessarily the way he comes across in real life although we did sometimes tease him in Aber by getting him stuck on dogmatic points.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    I don't agree to be honest, I think Nandy is an utter lightweight and have said so since she ran last time - and I put her as number two.

    I was a big fan of Wes but his Tweeting sprees make him look like a prat.

    Andy Burnham would be exactly where Keir is now.

    I'm happy enough with how Keir is doing for him to have my support.
    The one person who could galvanise Labour is Bridget Phillipson who is very impressive and is a northern lass
    My God you don't have a fucking clue, embarrassing.
    Really and is that the best response you can provide to an honest statement
    Honest bullshit, yes that is. It's all you deserve, now sod off
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited June 2022
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    Very happy to have a chat about trans people in sport when the Government start doing something on CoL or the economy, until then it's just a wedge issue

    I don't know what twhat wedge issue means.
    Thing he doesn't want talked about because it makes Labour look silly.
    No, it's just that I think the economy is more important right now. I think people becoming homeless is more important right now.

    I care a lot about the environment too - but I think for now people are more important.

    From a Tory fanboy like yourself, I will wear this with a mark of pride
    Um, WTF are you dribbling on about in that last sentence? Are you dumber than a bag of rocks, or just an outright troll?
    Yes I am an outright troll.

    You are a Tory fanboy, just too dishonest to say so.
    Bullshit.
    It's all I ever see you posting.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,251
    OnboardG1 said:

    NEW: Opinium rail strike poll

    - 70% support inflation-level pay rise
    - 62% believe govt should intervene
    - 70% against cuts to rail staff
    - 84% say invest rail profits in maintaining staff
    - 59% say workers right to strike if talks fail

    The interesting thing is that the RMT aren't asking for an inflation-level pay rise. They're asking for 7% which is below the current annualised rate of inflation, and will be significantly below the peak inflation level this year. In that respect they're not even playing into the government's "oh no wage spiral" argument.
    The issue isn’t on wage increases - it’s the insistence that there can be no changes to the old way of working to reflect the impact of the pandemic

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    I don't agree to be honest, I think Nandy is an utter lightweight and have said so since she ran last time - and I put her as number two.

    I was a big fan of Wes but his Tweeting sprees make him look like a prat.

    Andy Burnham would be exactly where Keir is now.

    I'm happy enough with how Keir is doing for him to have my support.
    The one person who could galvanise Labour is Bridget Phillipson who is very impressive and is a northern lass
    The problem she might have if the polling closes up again is which seat to fight if its after boundaries- the Washington and Houghton mash up seat she'll likely fight could be quite interesting in a close election, her current seat pre boundary changes similarly will be interesting if the Tories recover to a small lead

    Edit - obviously on current polling shes safe as houses
  • MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    2.2 kg if in €500 notes, according to t'internet. You wouldn't even need a suitcase. A laptop bag would do.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Andy_JS said:

    "Glastonbury: more middle-class than a Waitrose olive counter"

    I caught up with the wolf Alice, Sam fender sets this afternoon, both very good. And the Billie Eilish, who was a touch Disney time with bad language. 😒
    Watched and enjoyed Crowded House, which has a lot of memories for me. Billy Eilish I dont know the music and I don’t get her, so I turned off...
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    That's unfair. He has a big interest in polling for whatever party.

    It's just he doesn't get politics, per se.

    He seems to have been rather quiet recently, I hope he's OK. Infuriating though he can be I actually have a sneaking regard for him.
    Probably because he gets abused and bulled by a few posters who then enjoy playing the victim when it suits them.

    HYUFD is one of the best posters here.
    He isn't necessarily the latter, although he is valuable for his insights into polling which are extraordinary. And to be honest all the 'bullying' I see is of people getting mad at him for continuing to persist with totally wrong statements.

    But having met him in person many years before either of us were on PB, he's not as bad as he sometimes comes across and he must be very downbeat after Thursday.
    He gets bullied and targeted constantly. Including two users who joyfully tried to get him to leave the other day. I hope he did not listen.

    He's a fine chap and very polite. And actually nice unlike some of the other Tory cretins here
    Persistently telling experts they are wrong, when they are right, and refusing to acknowledge facts when they are demonstrated to him, is the opposite of politeness.

    Fair language and good manners are not the same thing.

    But as I say, that's not necessarily the way he comes across in real life although we did sometimes tease him in Aber by getting him stuck on dogmatic points.
    He's never been like that with me. The instances you refer to are when people started on him or were horrible first.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    Would depend on denominations.

    "A million euros in 500-euro notes weighs just 2.2 kilogrammes"
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190127/mixed-emotions-in-germany-as-500-euro-note-bows-out/
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,038

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    Would depend on denominations.

    "A million euros in 500-euro notes weighs just 2.2 kilogrammes"
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190127/mixed-emotions-in-germany-as-500-euro-note-bows-out/
    Interesting - thank you
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,156
    edited June 2022

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    1. Think I remember seeing stories a few months ago, that make this one appear potentially credible, as fitting into similar pattern?

    2. Suitcase of cash itself would be primae facie evidence IF documented?
    In the subhead not quoted by TSE above, the Times says the money went to his Foundation.



  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    1 million euros in 500 euro notes weighs 2.2 kg.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    That's unfair. He has a big interest in polling for whatever party.

    It's just he doesn't get politics, per se.

    He seems to have been rather quiet recently, I hope he's OK. Infuriating though he can be I actually have a sneaking regard for him.
    Probably because he gets abused and bulled by a few posters who then enjoy playing the victim when it suits them.

    HYUFD is one of the best posters here.
    We all know who the absolute best is though.

    Opinium along soon. They won’t have labour higher than 38 or Tories lower than 34. 37 to 35 feels about right from this one.

    So expect Johnny Owl to post soon as the pubs close. 🤭
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,249
    ... and to think Micktrain was unplugged for calling someone "mate"...

    Does this site have moderators any more, or is it now just a gutter?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    2.2 kg if in €500 notes, according to t'internet. You wouldn't even need a suitcase. A laptop bag would do.
    Have they stopped issuing €500 notes? Even if so, would reckon their still legal tender and available to those who might want to stuff them under the mattress, & etc.?
  • ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    That's unfair. He has a big interest in polling for whatever party.

    It's just he doesn't get politics, per se.

    He seems to have been rather quiet recently, I hope he's OK. Infuriating though he can be I actually have a sneaking regard for him.
    Probably because he gets abused and bulled by a few posters who then enjoy playing the victim when it suits them.

    HYUFD is one of the best posters here.
    We all know who the absolute best is though.

    Opinium along soon. They won’t have labour higher than 38 or Tories lower than 34. 37 to 35 feels about right from this one.

    So expect Johnny Owl to post soon as the pubs close. 🤭
    The absolute best is me.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,038

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    I don't agree to be honest, I think Nandy is an utter lightweight and have said so since she ran last time - and I put her as number two.

    I was a big fan of Wes but his Tweeting sprees make him look like a prat.

    Andy Burnham would be exactly where Keir is now.

    I'm happy enough with how Keir is doing for him to have my support.
    The one person who could galvanise Labour is Bridget Phillipson who is very impressive and is a northern lass
    The problem she might have if the polling closes up again is which seat to fight if its after boundaries- the Washington and Houghton mash up seat she'll likely fight could be quite interesting in a close election, her current seat pre boundary changes similarly will be interesting if the Tories recover to a small lead

    Edit - obviously on current polling shes safe as houses
    It was noticeably she was sitting next to Starmer at last weeks PMQ and it was commented on
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,156
    edited June 2022

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    Would depend on denominations.

    "A million euros in 500-euro notes weighs just 2.2 kilogrammes"
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190127/mixed-emotions-in-germany-as-500-euro-note-bows-out/
    Interesting - thank you
    On a parallel, £20 and £50 notes cease to be used from next September.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    ... and to think Micktrain was unplugged for calling someone "mate"...

    Does this site have moderators any more, or is it now just a gutter?

    I’m not entirely sure that was the reason...🤣
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,156

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    2.2 kg if in €500 notes, according to t'internet. You wouldn't even need a suitcase. A laptop bag would do.
    Have they stopped issuing €500 notes? Even if so, would reckon their still legal tender and available to those who might want to stuff them under the mattress, & etc.?
    No new ones were issued from 2019.

    So it's quite possible that they are now worth a little more than 500 Euro each.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    That's unfair. He has a big interest in polling for whatever party.

    It's just he doesn't get politics, per se.

    He seems to have been rather quiet recently, I hope he's OK. Infuriating though he can be I actually have a sneaking regard for him.
    Probably because he gets abused and bulled by a few posters who then enjoy playing the victim when it suits them.

    HYUFD is one of the best posters here.
    We all know who the absolute best is though.

    Opinium along soon. They won’t have labour higher than 38 or Tories lower than 34. 37 to 35 feels about right from this one.

    So expect Johnny Owl to post soon as the pubs close. 🤭
    The absolute best is me.
    And the most modest?
  • ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    That's unfair. He has a big interest in polling for whatever party.

    It's just he doesn't get politics, per se.

    He seems to have been rather quiet recently, I hope he's OK. Infuriating though he can be I actually have a sneaking regard for him.
    Probably because he gets abused and bulled by a few posters who then enjoy playing the victim when it suits them.

    HYUFD is one of the best posters here.
    We all know who the absolute best is though.

    Opinium along soon. They won’t have labour higher than 38 or Tories lower than 34. 37 to 35 feels about right from this one.

    So expect Johnny Owl to post soon as the pubs close. 🤭
    The absolute best is me.
    And the most modest?
    Me too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Anyone here want to defend the court's decision?

    Absolutely. Such issues (I am pro abortion) are for voters and legislators. As they are in the UK. All the SC has done is give USA voters the same rights we enjoy. They have neither banned nor compelled anything at all.

    What inherent right can enshrine the pro abortion principle so that it is beyond the reach of the voters? The debate itself, however dire, shows that the issues are not easy or obvious.

    This whole issue is bedeviled by all the people on all sides who think only one answer is possible or rational.

    Mr Smithson is right: this issue will stir voters to do their job. Good. Perhaps they will demolish Trumpism at the same time too.

    The question is, why did Obama and co not legislate for this - and why is Biden not either?
    Obama had a Freedom of Choice Bill and he said in 2007 that it would be the first thing he would do as President. Once elected of course he said that it was "not my highest legislative priority".

    No, of course it wasn't. You did just enough to get what you wanted from women and then ignored them. There's a word for men who do that. And women are utterly sick of this. We see some of this attitude on here - women's issues are seen as a tiresome addendum not central to what governments should be about. Well we bloody well should be.

    Also if Utah wants women to limit their intake of those pesky little sperm well there's an easy answer: reversible vasectomies for all boys at puberty, only to be reversed when they have grown up and are ready to settle down and start a family with a named woman.

    What an interference with men's bodies, you say. Yes, well, tough.

    Taz said:

    https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1540726546607943681

    NADINE DORRIES: Ban transgender athletes from competing against women, exclusive interview with The Mail on Sunday @NadineDorries mailplus.co.uk/edition/news/p… via @mailplus

    Oh goody, more of this.

    This is already starting to happen in sport.
    You just wonder why the Government would want to make this a big deal, is it because they have nothing to say on anything of actual interest?
    Because sportswomen are - rightly - making one hell of a stink about having women's sport ruined by the inclusion of men.

    This matters to women - who happen to be a majority - and it's about time our interests and rights and demands were taken a hell of a lot more seriously than they are.

    So tough. Governments get involved in the sale of privately owned football clubs. So they can bloody well get involved in making sure that sport is conducted fairly.
    Is it wrong to laugh at the far-left Democrats in the States, who are vociferously objecting to the Supreme Court decision, while taking about ‘pregnant people’ because they can’t use the “W-word”?
    Not wrong at all. I have been doing a lot of it myself elsewhere. If they can't bloody well use the word "woman" then they're going to have a hard time trying to defend or advance their rights.
    Oh indeed. How are you supposed to talk about women’s rights, without talking about women.

    There’s an American comedian, Bridget Phetasy, who picks up on all these silly omissions of the “W-word” in an amusing way. https://youtube.com/watch?v=WtfUWS9lBnU
    Comedian? Then should be at least somewhat humorous. (Something I demand also of leftwinger who purport to be comics.)

    Your example is a rightwing polemnicist. And about as funny as a rubber crutch.

    But to each his (or her or their or its) own.
    Except that she isn’t. She’s a Californian Democrat, totally in favour of redistribution of wealth - but like many driven completely mad by the woke bollocks of the modern left, who talk about ‘birthing people’ #WOMEN.
  • ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    That's unfair. He has a big interest in polling for whatever party.

    It's just he doesn't get politics, per se.

    He seems to have been rather quiet recently, I hope he's OK. Infuriating though he can be I actually have a sneaking regard for him.
    Probably because he gets abused and bulled by a few posters who then enjoy playing the victim when it suits them.

    HYUFD is one of the best posters here.
    We all know who the absolute best is though.

    Opinium along soon. They won’t have labour higher than 38 or Tories lower than 34. 37 to 35 feels about right from this one.

    So expect Johnny Owl to post soon as the pubs close. 🤭
    Is there Opinium this week? Isn't it every two weeks?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    That's unfair. He has a big interest in polling for whatever party.

    It's just he doesn't get politics, per se.

    He seems to have been rather quiet recently, I hope he's OK. Infuriating though he can be I actually have a sneaking regard for him.
    Probably because he gets abused and bulled by a few posters who then enjoy playing the victim when it suits them.

    HYUFD is one of the best posters here.
    We all know who the absolute best is though.

    Opinium along soon. They won’t have labour higher than 38 or Tories lower than 34. 37 to 35 feels about right from this one.

    So expect Johnny Owl to post soon as the pubs close. 🤭
    The absolute best is me.
    And the most modest?
    Pretty sure TSE would have something to say about that.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    ... and to think Micktrain was unplugged for calling someone "mate"...

    Does this site have moderators any more, or is it now just a gutter?

    Would certainly have objected to him attempting to mate with yours truly! Regardless of preferred pronouns!!!

    Actually, had a bit of fondness there, as the Mickster was definitely an above-average bot.

    Wasn't surprised his plug got pulled AFTER he made grossly unwarranted aspersions against Foxy's character - that pissed me off.

    Though reckon it perturbed the good Doc not one whit - or no more than one!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    That's unfair. He has a big interest in polling for whatever party.

    It's just he doesn't get politics, per se.

    He seems to have been rather quiet recently, I hope he's OK. Infuriating though he can be I actually have a sneaking regard for him.
    Probably because he gets abused and bulled by a few posters who then enjoy playing the victim when it suits them.

    HYUFD is one of the best posters here.
    We all know who the absolute best is though.

    Opinium along soon. They won’t have labour higher than 38 or Tories lower than 34. 37 to 35 feels about right from this one.

    So expect Johnny Owl to post soon as the pubs close. 🤭
    Is there Opinium this week? Isn't it every two weeks?
    Oops, looks like our equine friend has experienced what happens if you use the ‘c’ word.
    Rightly so. There are limits.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Applicant said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    That's unfair. He has a big interest in polling for whatever party.

    It's just he doesn't get politics, per se.

    He seems to have been rather quiet recently, I hope he's OK. Infuriating though he can be I actually have a sneaking regard for him.
    Probably because he gets abused and bulled by a few posters who then enjoy playing the victim when it suits them.

    HYUFD is one of the best posters here.
    We all know who the absolute best is though.

    Opinium along soon. They won’t have labour higher than 38 or Tories lower than 34. 37 to 35 feels about right from this one.

    So expect Johnny Owl to post soon as the pubs close. 🤭
    The absolute best is me.
    And the most modest?
    Pretty sure TSE would have something to say about that.
    #Legendary
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    That's unfair. He has a big interest in polling for whatever party.

    It's just he doesn't get politics, per se.

    He seems to have been rather quiet recently, I hope he's OK. Infuriating though he can be I actually have a sneaking regard for him.
    Probably because he gets abused and bulled by a few posters who then enjoy playing the victim when it suits them.

    HYUFD is one of the best posters here.
    He isn't necessarily the latter, although he is valuable for his insights into polling which are extraordinary. And to be honest all the 'bullying' I see is of people getting mad at him for continuing to persist with totally wrong statements.

    But having met him in person many years before either of us were on PB, he's not as bad as he sometimes comes across and he must be very downbeat after Thursday.
    He gets bullied and targeted constantly. Including two users who joyfully tried to get him to leave the other day. I hope he did not listen.

    He's a fine chap and very polite. And actually nice unlike some of the other Tory cretins here
    Persistently telling experts they are wrong, when they are right, and refusing to acknowledge facts when they are demonstrated to him, is the opposite of politeness.

    Fair language and good manners are not the same thing.

    But as I say, that's not necessarily the way he comes across in real life although we did sometimes tease him in Aber by getting him stuck on dogmatic points.
    He's never been like that with me. The instances you refer to are when people started on him or were horrible first.
    That is certainly not the case.

    But it seems a bit unfair to keep arguing with a banned poster. If you're reading this, we'll resume when you've apologised and been unbanned.

    Can I reiterate my advice to you from a couple of months back - if you don't like Big G, ignore him. It's only you will get into trouble otherwise.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    Would depend on denominations.

    "A million euros in 500-euro notes weighs just 2.2 kilogrammes"
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190127/mixed-emotions-in-germany-as-500-euro-note-bows-out/
    Interesting - thank you
    On a parallel, £20 and £50 notes cease to be used from next September.
    I had to look that up. You're referring to the old paper version, not the crappy plastic ones we have now.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    edited June 2022
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    That's unfair. He has a big interest in polling for whatever party.

    It's just he doesn't get politics, per se.

    He seems to have been rather quiet recently, I hope he's OK. Infuriating though he can be I actually have a sneaking regard for him.
    Probably because he gets abused and bulled by a few posters who then enjoy playing the victim when it suits them.

    HYUFD is one of the best posters here.
    He isn't necessarily the latter, although he is valuable for his insights into polling which are extraordinary. And to be honest all the 'bullying' I see is of people getting mad at him for continuing to persist with totally wrong statements.

    But having met him in person many years before either of us were on PB, he's not as bad as he sometimes comes across and he must be very downbeat after Thursday.
    He gets bullied and targeted constantly. Including two users who joyfully tried to get him to leave the other day. I hope he did not listen.

    He's a fine chap and very polite. And actually nice unlike some of the other Tory cretins here
    Persistently telling experts they are wrong, when they are right, and refusing to acknowledge facts when they are demonstrated to him, is the opposite of politeness.

    Fair language and good manners are not the same thing.

    But as I say, that's not necessarily the way he comes across in real life although we did sometimes tease him in Aber by getting him stuck on dogmatic points.
    He's never been like that with me. The instances you refer to are when people started on him or were horrible first.
    That is certainly not the case.

    But it seems a bit unfair to keep arguing with a banned poster. If you're reading this, we'll resume when you've apologised and been unbanned.

    Can I reiterate my advice to you from a couple of months back - if you don't like Big G, ignore him. It's only you will get into trouble otherwise.
    Wise words. I find @StuartDickson incredibly annoying, but I wouldn’t use that word about him.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Applicant said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    Would depend on denominations.

    "A million euros in 500-euro notes weighs just 2.2 kilogrammes"
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190127/mixed-emotions-in-germany-as-500-euro-note-bows-out/
    Interesting - thank you
    On a parallel, £20 and £50 notes cease to be used from next September.
    I had to look that up. You're referring to the old paper version, not the crappy plastic ones we have now.
    We have £50 polymer notes? They kept that quiet.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    Would depend on denominations.

    "A million euros in 500-euro notes weighs just 2.2 kilogrammes"
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190127/mixed-emotions-in-germany-as-500-euro-note-bows-out/
    Interesting - thank you
    On a parallel, £20 and £50 notes cease to be used from next September.
    I had to look that up. You're referring to the old paper version, not the crappy plastic ones we have now.
    We have £50 polymer notes? They kept that quiet.
    Clearly you are not picking up brown envelopes stuffed with £50 notes. Have you considered a change of career?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    Would depend on denominations.

    "A million euros in 500-euro notes weighs just 2.2 kilogrammes"
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190127/mixed-emotions-in-germany-as-500-euro-note-bows-out/
    Interesting - thank you
    On a parallel, £20 and £50 notes cease to be used from next September.
    I had to look that up. You're referring to the old paper version, not the crappy plastic ones we have now.
    We have £50 polymer notes? They kept that quiet.
    Clearly you are not picking up brown envelopes stuffed with £50 notes. Have you considered a change of career?
    You can get me a job picking up brown envelopes of £50 notes? Where and when?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Wonder why he decided to give him it in Euros.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Am beginning to suspect, that release of SCOTUS invalidation of Row v Wade was deliberately timed (but how? and who?) to give aid & comfort to Boris Johnson & Co, by distracting our British cousins (not exactly heavy lifting) with exciting news from Across the Pond. And away from the Tory by-election bust-up.

    Certainly has had that affect on PB. And the rest of UK media?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Andy_JS said:

    "Glastonbury: more middle-class than a Waitrose olive counter"

    It’s so middle-class that Angela Rayner went to Glyndebourne instead.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Crumbs bit tetchy in here this evening.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    Would depend on denominations.

    "A million euros in 500-euro notes weighs just 2.2 kilogrammes"
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190127/mixed-emotions-in-germany-as-500-euro-note-bows-out/
    Interesting - thank you
    On a parallel, £20 and £50 notes cease to be used from next September.
    I had to look that up. You're referring to the old paper version, not the crappy plastic ones we have now.
    We have £50 polymer notes? They kept that quiet.
    Clearly you are not picking up brown envelopes stuffed with £50 notes. Have you considered a change of career?
    You can get me a job picking up brown envelopes of £50 notes? Where and when?
    Securicor., or G4S. Mostly cash points.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    edited June 2022

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Questions about Starmer, is this the latest CCHQ line?

    There are no questions about Starmer in Labour. Zero.

    I thought Why are you so boring and underperforming so badly? was a bit of a live issue. Bloody should be. Compare Blair at the equiv stage of the Major govt.
    The question is, would somebody else be doing better? And the answer is no, hence why no moves.

    There is no question about "his future", however much Tories here would love there to be.
    There aren't "Tories here" except HYUFD and he doesn't count because he has no interest in politics in general only in Tory politics and has only the vaguest awareness who SKS is

    Yes, one of those wimmin or the one who sounds black but isn't who tweets too much.
    That's unfair. He has a big interest in polling for whatever party.

    It's just he doesn't get politics, per se.

    He seems to have been rather quiet recently, I hope he's OK. Infuriating though he can be I actually have a sneaking regard for him.
    Probably because he gets abused and bulled by a few posters who then enjoy playing the victim when it suits them.

    HYUFD is one of the best posters here.
    We all know who the absolute best is though.

    Opinium along soon. They won’t have labour higher than 38 or Tories lower than 34. 37 to 35 feels about right from this one.

    So expect Johnny Owl to post soon as the pubs close. 🤭
    Is there Opinium this week? Isn't it every two weeks?
    The last one was 2 weeks ago. 🙂

    I know when polls are coming, based on the phases of the moon.

    I might tweak my prediction on second thoughts.

    Labour no higher than 37 so 36 or 37 v 34 or 33.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    dixiedean said:

    Crumbs bit tetchy in here this evening.

    Nah, just one poster who has earned a time out, hopefully until he calms down and does the right thing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    Would depend on denominations.

    "A million euros in 500-euro notes weighs just 2.2 kilogrammes"
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190127/mixed-emotions-in-germany-as-500-euro-note-bows-out/
    Interesting - thank you
    On a parallel, £20 and £50 notes cease to be used from next September.
    I had to look that up. You're referring to the old paper version, not the crappy plastic ones we have now.
    We have £50 polymer notes? They kept that quiet.
    Clearly you are not picking up brown envelopes stuffed with £50 notes. Have you considered a change of career?
    You can get me a job picking up brown envelopes of £50 notes? Where and when?
    Securicor., or G4S. Mostly cash points.
    The problem with that job is, you end up feeling withdrawn.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    Would depend on denominations.

    "A million euros in 500-euro notes weighs just 2.2 kilogrammes"
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190127/mixed-emotions-in-germany-as-500-euro-note-bows-out/
    Interesting - thank you
    On a parallel, £20 and £50 notes cease to be used from next September.
    I had to look that up. You're referring to the old paper version, not the crappy plastic ones we have now.
    We have £50 polymer notes? They kept that quiet.
    Clearly you are not picking up brown envelopes stuffed with £50 notes. Have you considered a change of career?
    You can get me a job picking up brown envelopes of £50 notes? Where and when?
    Have you heard of the latest vacancy at the League of ____-Headed People?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929
    dixiedean said:

    Crumbs bit tetchy in here this evening.

    Not really, just an old tedious feud.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    Would depend on denominations.

    "A million euros in 500-euro notes weighs just 2.2 kilogrammes"
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190127/mixed-emotions-in-germany-as-500-euro-note-bows-out/
    Interesting - thank you
    On a parallel, £20 and £50 notes cease to be used from next September.
    I had to look that up. You're referring to the old paper version, not the crappy plastic ones we have now.
    We have £50 polymer notes? They kept that quiet.
    Clearly you are not picking up brown envelopes stuffed with £50 notes. Have you considered a change of career?
    You can get me a job picking up brown envelopes of £50 notes? Where and when?
    Have you heard of the latest vacancy at the League of ____-Headed People?
    Does it allow you to work from Holmes?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Am beginning to suspect, that release of SCOTUS invalidation of Row v Wade was deliberately timed (but how? and who?) to give aid & comfort to Boris Johnson & Co, by distracting our British cousins (not exactly heavy lifting) with exciting news from Across the Pond. And away from the Tory by-election bust-up.

    Certainly has had that affect on PB. And the rest of UK media?

    It's not impossible that the Whips timed the moving of the writs knowing this was the date of SC decision.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    2.2 kg if in €500 notes, according to t'internet. You wouldn't even need a suitcase. A laptop bag would do.
    The €500 note has been sardonically referred to a the Drug Dealers Friend for its contribution to massively reducing back injuries from carrying bags of money….
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    edited June 2022
    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Crumbs bit tetchy in here this evening.

    Not really, just an old tedious feud.
    Reminds me a bit of The Duellists. When asked what it was all about, one of the protagonists replied, 'I'm far from certain myself.'

    https://youtu.be/1FVOFzvdpiw
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    dixiedean said:

    Crumbs bit tetchy in here this evening.

    Nah, just one poster who has earned a time out, hopefully until he calms down and does the right thing.
    Ah OK.
    Maybe the equivalent of walking into a pub as a punch is thrown.
    The only one of the night?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Wonder why he decided to give him it in Euros.
    €500 notes are quite portable in large numbers.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Glastonbury: more middle-class than a Waitrose olive counter"

    It’s so middle-class that Angela Rayner went to Glyndebourne instead.
    I thought that like maybe she had been dragged along by her new other half, much in the same way I get dragged along to Arsenal matches sometimes.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    Would depend on denominations.

    "A million euros in 500-euro notes weighs just 2.2 kilogrammes"
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190127/mixed-emotions-in-germany-as-500-euro-note-bows-out/
    Interesting - thank you
    On a parallel, £20 and £50 notes cease to be used from next September.
    I had to look that up. You're referring to the old paper version, not the crappy plastic ones we have now.
    We have £50 polymer notes? They kept that quiet.
    Clearly you are not picking up brown envelopes stuffed with £50 notes. Have you considered a change of career?
    You can get me a job picking up brown envelopes of £50 notes? Where and when?
    Securicor., or G4S. Mostly cash points.
    The problem with that job is, you end up feeling withdrawn.
    Noted.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Two bans in one weekend.

    Maybe it is the humid weather getting to everyone.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Ooh, did the drunk horse get put in the sin bin?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Sandpit said:

    A fantastic conversation between Michael Atherton and Nasser Hussain, about leadership and captaincy.

    Nasser particularly. His piece on the instinctive choices made by Stokes was excellent.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, did the drunk horse get put in the sin bin?

    Seems so.

    Life comes fast on PB.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    The Living Marxism mob seems to have gone lock, stock and barrel over to British reactionary nationalism; at the very least it’s psychologically interesting.

    So revolutionary communists, what first attracted you to flag waving, grifting populist conservatives and their culture wars?



    https://twitter.com/bellacaledonia/status/1540708965620690945?s=21&t=vbojmWGZAc_YvHFmP6_8dg
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Anyone here want to defend the court's decision?

    Absolutely. Such issues (I am pro abortion) are for voters and legislators. As they are in the UK. All the SC has done is give USA voters the same rights we enjoy. They have neither banned nor compelled anything at all.

    What inherent right can enshrine the pro abortion principle so that it is beyond the reach of the voters? The debate itself, however dire, shows that the issues are not easy or obvious.

    This whole issue is bedeviled by all the people on all sides who think only one answer is possible or rational.

    Mr Smithson is right: this issue will stir voters to do their job. Good. Perhaps they will demolish Trumpism at the same time too.

    The question is, why did Obama and co not legislate for this - and why is Biden not either?
    Obama had a Freedom of Choice Bill and he said in 2007 that it would be the first thing he would do as President. Once elected of course he said that it was "not my highest legislative priority".

    No, of course it wasn't. You did just enough to get what you wanted from women and then ignored them. There's a word for men who do that. And women are utterly sick of this. We see some of this attitude on here - women's issues are seen as a tiresome addendum not central to what governments should be about. Well we bloody well should be.

    Also if Utah wants women to limit their intake of those pesky little sperm well there's an easy answer: reversible vasectomies for all boys at puberty, only to be reversed when they have grown up and are ready to settle down and start a family with a named woman.

    What an interference with men's bodies, you say. Yes, well, tough.

    Taz said:

    https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1540726546607943681

    NADINE DORRIES: Ban transgender athletes from competing against women, exclusive interview with The Mail on Sunday @NadineDorries mailplus.co.uk/edition/news/p… via @mailplus

    Oh goody, more of this.

    This is already starting to happen in sport.
    You just wonder why the Government would want to make this a big deal, is it because they have nothing to say on anything of actual interest?
    Because sportswomen are - rightly - making one hell of a stink about having women's sport ruined by the inclusion of men.

    This matters to women - who happen to be a majority - and it's about time our interests and rights and demands were taken a hell of a lot more seriously than they are.

    So tough. Governments get involved in the sale of privately owned football clubs. So they can bloody well get involved in making sure that sport is conducted fairly.
    Is it wrong to laugh at the far-left Democrats in the States, who are vociferously objecting to the Supreme Court decision, while taking about ‘pregnant people’ because they can’t use the “W-word”?
    Not wrong at all. I have been doing a lot of it myself elsewhere. If they can't bloody well use the word "woman" then they're going to have a hard time trying to defend or advance their rights.
    Oh indeed. How are you supposed to talk about women’s rights, without talking about women.

    There’s an American comedian, Bridget Phetasy, who picks up on all these silly omissions of the “W-word” in an amusing way. https://youtube.com/watch?v=WtfUWS9lBnU
    Comedian? Then should be at least somewhat humorous. (Something I demand also of leftwinger who purport to be comics.)

    Your example is a rightwing polemnicist. And about as funny as a rubber crutch.

    But to each his (or her or their or its) own.
    Except that she isn’t. She’s a Californian Democrat, totally in favour of redistribution of wealth - but like many driven completely mad by the woke bollocks of the modern left, who talk about ‘birthing people’ #WOMEN.
    "California Democrat" who hangs with Federalist Society and is associate editor of The Spectator
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, did the drunk horse get put in the sin bin?

    The Tony Knowles Suite is customary.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Anyone here want to defend the court's decision?

    Absolutely. Such issues (I am pro abortion) are for voters and legislators. As they are in the UK. All the SC has done is give USA voters the same rights we enjoy. They have neither banned nor compelled anything at all.

    What inherent right can enshrine the pro abortion principle so that it is beyond the reach of the voters? The debate itself, however dire, shows that the issues are not easy or obvious.

    This whole issue is bedeviled by all the people on all sides who think only one answer is possible or rational.

    Mr Smithson is right: this issue will stir voters to do their job. Good. Perhaps they will demolish Trumpism at the same time too.
    The issue is bedeviled by people finding false complexity in the debate and going down blind allies.
    And just in time here is a front page blind alley from a usual suspect:

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jun/25/bbc-amol-rajan-phrase-pro-life-roe-v-wade-interview
    Well Pro-Life is a bit of a cheek. But whatever. Brass tacks, there's 3 answers to the question, do pregnant women have the right to choose whether to have the baby?

    (i) No - once pregnant they become primarily carriers of child.
    (ii) Yes - with controls and prohibitions.
    (iii) Yes - an absolute untrammelled right.

    Where (ii) is the Roe status quo - balance struck between competing rights - and (i) and (iii) are the extremes, (i) being all child and no woman, (iii) being all woman and no child.

    And what's happening in America is an attack by (i) on (ii). The other extreme - (iii) - is not a player. Hence my frustration with people (eg your good self) going on about "complexity" and "both the extremes" and "deep philosophical dilemmas" bla bla.

    Shape up. :smile:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, did the drunk horse get put in the sin bin?

    The Tony Knowles Suite is customary.
    A stable, shurely?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Who's the second person to be banned? I know the first was micktrain.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    kle4 said:

    Very happy to have a chat about trans people in sport when the Government start doing something on CoL or the economy, until then it's just a wedge issue

    I don't know what twhat wedge issue means.
    It means "something which causes me embarrassment

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Very happy to have a chat about trans people in sport when the Government start doing something on CoL or the economy, until then it's just a wedge issue

    Horse it doesnt really matter what conditions you impose, it is an issue that exercises some and they are going to discuss it and demand this or that over it. That will have some effect at the margins. Like, for example, if Wes was leader. The vast majority wont care he is gay. A few will, and that might be enough to sway some seats perhaps. Anything that exercises more than a couple percent can influence outcomes. Trans issues are not a majority concern but many more than a couple % are exercised by the issue.
    In the end sport will resolve the issue, because they have to. And they will do it themselves because various activists have pre-written ideological boilerplates that will not sufficiently match the needs of the particular context.

    And it will continue to evolve.

    Imo.
    They will, yes, but its an output of the wider questions and issues over trans rights, womens rights etc etc.
    Agreed.

    But the arena of decision will sports' governing bodies, rather than declarations by activists.
    And if the decisions of the sports governing bodies don’t match the desires of activists from *both* sides of this debate, it will end I court.

    Since the two sides are irreconcilable, that means legal action is inevitable.

    Perhaps sort out the law on this might be an idea? No, what we need is a bunch of judges and a law written in 1789. That would work….
    S 195 of the Equality Act is your answer.

    A boy, a man, especially after puberty is stronger in every respect than a woman. It is not simply testosterone but the shape, everything. Male and female bodies are different. And there is nothing which can reverse or equalise that physical advantage which a man - whatever he calls or thinks himself to be - has over a woman.

    So it is fundamentally unfair to allow a physical male to compete in women's sport. It will destroy women's sport at every level. It is also potentially harmful to women because of the risk of serious injury (eg in rugby).

    Physical males are not banned from sport if they cannot compete in women's sport. They can compete against men - who can, for a change, do the whole "inclusivity" shtick with no loss to themselves. Or other transgender sports people, if there are enough.

    Of course transactivists may get their way but this will mean the destruction of women's sport - as so many elite sportswomen have said. That may be what society wants - as it has done so often before - putting men's needs and desires ahead of women. So be it. But let's not pretend that this about "fairness", "inclusivity" or "rights" bullshit.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862
    On topic, roughly the same proportion of Dems strongly support as Reps strongly oppose. That hardly looks like electoral Armageddon. Sadly.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    edited June 2022

    Andy_JS said:

    "Glastonbury: more middle-class than a Waitrose olive counter"

    I caught up with the wolf Alice, Sam fender sets this afternoon, both very good. And the Billie Eilish, who was a touch Disney time with bad language. 😒
    Watched and enjoyed Crowded House, which has a lot of memories for me. Billy Eilish I dont know the music and I don’t get her, so I turned off...
    Sometimes an album can be quite atmospheric, but the songs don’t work same live. She’s like someone from Disney time, so jolly and cheesy.

    Primal Scream opened with swastika from xtrmtr? It sounded so flat, mogodon remix I moved on straight away.

    The avalanches live soon, they could be fun.

    Ooooooh Frankie Sinatra
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    [Looks in]

    Hmmm....

    Maybe skip PB tonight

    [Closes door]
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Applicant said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    What a parasite, he’s just like his younger brother.

    The Prince of Wales accepted a suitcase containing €1 million in cash from a controversial Qatari politician, The Sunday Times can reveal.

    It was one of three lots of cash, totalling €3 million, which Prince Charles personally received from Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, the former prime minister of Qatar who is nicknamed “HBJ”, between 2011 and 2015.

    On one occasion, Al Thani, 62, presented the prince with €1 million, which was reportedly stuffed into carrier bags from Fortnum & Mason, the luxury department store that has a royal charter to provide the prince’s groceries and tea.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charles-accepted-1m-cash-in-suitcase-from-sheikh-j2pgnfsgx

    Two issues with this.

    1 - It is a Times scoop - is it true? This week I found on old one about claiming that Arthur Scargill bought his Barbican flat at a discount and made a million selling it on in the Times, which appears to be a simple fabrication. Afaics he never bought it.

    And we all know that the Times / Sunday Times stable has come up with some fairy stories in the last 2 years.

    2 - Does evidence exist of impropriety? TSE seems to be assuming some element of personal benefit for Prince Charles.
    I am not suggesting the allegations are wrong but how much does a suitcase weigh with a million euros inside ?
    Would depend on denominations.

    "A million euros in 500-euro notes weighs just 2.2 kilogrammes"
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190127/mixed-emotions-in-germany-as-500-euro-note-bows-out/
    Interesting - thank you
    On a parallel, £20 and £50 notes cease to be used from next September.
    I had to look that up. You're referring to the old paper version, not the crappy plastic ones we have now.
    The 1970 to 1992 paper notes were the most beautifully designed IMO. Featured Christopher Wren, William Shakespeare, Florence Nightingale, Duke of Wellington and Isaac Newton.

    https://www.leftovercurrency.com/exchange/british-pounds/withdrawn-bank-of-england-banknotes/bank-of-england-20-pounds-sterling-banknote-william-shakespeare/
    https://www.leftovercurrency.com/exchange/british-pounds/withdrawn-bank-of-england-banknotes/bank-of-england-50-pounds-sterling-banknote-sir-christopher-wren/
    https://www.leftovercurrency.com/exchange/british-pounds/withdrawn-bank-of-england-banknotes/bank-of-england-10-pounds-sterling-banknote-florence-nightingale/
    https://www.leftovercurrency.com/exchange/british-pounds/withdrawn-bank-of-england-banknotes/bank-of-england-5-pounds-sterling-banknote-duke-of-wellington/
    https://www.leftovercurrency.com/exchange/british-pounds/withdrawn-bank-of-england-banknotes/bank-of-england-1-pound-sterling-banknote-sir-isaac-newton/
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    On Glastonbury, I don’t get how Billie Eilish has become the pre-eminent artist that she is.

    Lorde is the penultimate act tomorrow night, and she is far superior.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Don’t use the c word.

    It upsets OGH.

    Gets you in the sin bin for 48 hours.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Andy_JS said:

    Who's the second person to be banned? I know the first was micktrain.

    CHB.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited June 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Who's the second person to be banned? I know the first was micktrain.

    Not sure @micktrain was the first person...

    ...but the second poster to be banned was @CorrectHorseBattery for use of c-word directed at another poster. Fair do's - hopefully CBH will see the error of his ways soon and apologise.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Am beginning to suspect, that release of SCOTUS invalidation of Row v Wade was deliberately timed (but how? and who?) to give aid & comfort to Boris Johnson & Co, by distracting our British cousins (not exactly heavy lifting) with exciting news from Across the Pond. And away from the Tory by-election bust-up.

    Certainly has had that affect on PB. And the rest of UK media?

    It's not impossible that the Whips timed the moving of the writs knowing this was the date of SC decision.

    That actually makes WAY more sense, as it WAS known IIRC that SCOTUS was scheduled to release a bunch of decisions, including this one.

    In which case, pretty savvy of Team Big Dog. Perhaps like timing of the 1922 Committee vote?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited June 2022
    Deleted.
    A Vanilla Mystery.
    Which would be a good name for a band/album come to think of it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    CatMan said:

    Don’t use the c word.

    It upsets OGH.

    Gets you in the sin bin for 48 hours.

    Conservative?
    Change U.K.?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    IanB2 said:

    On topic, roughly the same proportion of Dems strongly support as Reps strongly oppose. That hardly looks like electoral Armageddon. Sadly.

    So real questions are likely
    > what is the differential in intensity of feeling & motivation on each side?
    > what do independents think, and are they breaking one way or the other?

    Plus
    > how does this play out on state-by-state, district-by-district basis for Congress, governor, legislature, judges and other races on 2022 ballot?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    "Johnson's no.1 rule. Focus?"
    "Tory blah blah."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258

    Andy_JS said:

    "Glastonbury: more middle-class than a Waitrose olive counter"

    I caught up with the wolf Alice, Sam fender sets this afternoon, both very good. And the Billie Eilish, who was a touch Disney time with bad language. 😒
    Watched and enjoyed Crowded House, which has a lot of memories for me. Billy Eilish I dont know the music and I don’t get her, so I turned off...
    Sometimes an album can be quite atmospheric, but the songs don’t work same live. She’s like someone from Disney time, so jolly and cheesy.

    Primal Scream opened with swastika from xtrmtr? It sounded so flat, mogodon remix I moved on straight away.

    The avalanches live soon, they could be fun.

    Ooooooh Frankie Sinatra
    I found it interesting that my daughter dropped Billy Eilish (to the point of reselling concert tickets), on the grounds that she had realised her music didn’t have depth.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862

    IanB2 said:

    On topic, roughly the same proportion of Dems strongly support as Reps strongly oppose. That hardly looks like electoral Armageddon. Sadly.

    So real questions are likely
    > what is the differential in intensity of feeling & motivation on each side?
    > what do independents think, and are they breaking one way or the other?

    Plus
    > how does this play out on state-by-state, district-by-district basis for Congress, governor, legislature, judges and other races on 2022 ballot?
    Also the extent to which voters feel that their votes are likely to change anything. Particularly considering the Dems had plenty of chance to codify the 1970s ruling into law under several presidencies when they controlled the legislature.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Andy_JS said:

    Who's the second person to be banned? I know the first was micktrain.

    Not sure @micktrain was the first person...

    ...but the second poster to be banned was @CorrectHorseBattery for use of c-word directed at another poster. Fair do's - hopefully CBH will see the error of his ways soon and apologise.
    CHB has his faults and has just paid penalty for one. He's also got his own issues about which he's been candid. His bark is definitely worse than his bite, and his contributions are always worth considering (if not always treasuring).

    So looking forward to seeing him restored very soon to full communion in & with this parish.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Greetings.

    An interesting bit of financial news from Canada. Let's see others do the same:


    https://twitter.com/Denys_Shmyhal/status/1540451233961476098?t=ECXx2GBV4zs7DA_srgFU4Q&s=19
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587
    I've never been banned from PB.

    To get banned, will I have to say ????? is a **** and that they should ***** off a **** with a ***** inserted ***** ***** *** *** ***** before ***** with Jude Law and ****-***** Coldplay ****** into ****** for all eternity?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Am beginning to suspect, that release of SCOTUS invalidation of Row v Wade was deliberately timed (but how? and who?) to give aid & comfort to Boris Johnson & Co, by distracting our British cousins (not exactly heavy lifting) with exciting news from Across the Pond. And away from the Tory by-election bust-up.

    Certainly has had that affect on PB. And the rest of UK media?

    It's not impossible that the Whips timed the moving of the writs knowing this was the date of SC decision.

    That actually makes WAY more sense, as it WAS known IIRC that SCOTUS was scheduled to release a bunch of decisions, including this one.

    In which case, pretty savvy of Team Big Dog. Perhaps like timing of the 1922 Committee vote?
    I think this is complete bollocks. You expect them to be that knowledgeable, that Marchiavellian, that competent? Which Conservative Party have you been watching lately? Also, by most accounts, they didn’t expect to lose Tiverton.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    CatMan said:

    I would post about the Trans issue, but I have a Trans Step-Son, so will probably end up getting banned, except to say there aren't a group of Male Sports Athletes thinking "Oh I know, I'll pretend to be a Woman so I can get lots of medals!"

    But there are, look at East Germany back in the day. I don't see what conclusions you think you're drawing from a sample of one with unspecified if any sporting interests
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Very happy to have a chat about trans people in sport when the Government start doing something on CoL or the economy, until then it's just a wedge issue

    I don't know what twhat wedge issue means.
    It means "something which causes me embarrassment

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Very happy to have a chat about trans people in sport when the Government start doing something on CoL or the economy, until then it's just a wedge issue

    Horse it doesnt really matter what conditions you impose, it is an issue that exercises some and they are going to discuss it and demand this or that over it. That will have some effect at the margins. Like, for example, if Wes was leader. The vast majority wont care he is gay. A few will, and that might be enough to sway some seats perhaps. Anything that exercises more than a couple percent can influence outcomes. Trans issues are not a majority concern but many more than a couple % are exercised by the issue.
    In the end sport will resolve the issue, because they have to. And they will do it themselves because various activists have pre-written ideological boilerplates that will not sufficiently match the needs of the particular context.

    And it will continue to evolve.

    Imo.
    They will, yes, but its an output of the wider questions and issues over trans rights, womens rights etc etc.
    Agreed.

    But the arena of decision will sports' governing bodies, rather than declarations by activists.
    And if the decisions of the sports governing bodies don’t match the desires of activists from *both* sides of this debate, it will end I court.

    Since the two sides are irreconcilable, that means legal action is inevitable.

    Perhaps sort out the law on this might be an idea? No, what we need is a bunch of judges and a law written in 1789. That would work….
    S 195 of the Equality Act is your answer.

    A boy, a man, especially after puberty is stronger in every respect than a woman. It is not simply testosterone but the shape, everything. Male and female bodies are different. And there is nothing which can reverse or equalise that physical advantage which a man - whatever he calls or thinks himself to be - has over a woman.

    So it is fundamentally unfair to allow a physical male to compete in women's sport. It will destroy women's sport at every level. It is also potentially harmful to women because of the risk of serious injury (eg in rugby).

    Physical males are not banned from sport if they cannot compete in women's sport. They can compete against men - who can, for a change, do the whole "inclusivity" shtick with no loss to themselves. Or other transgender sports people, if there are enough.

    Of course transactivists may get their way but this will mean the destruction of women's sport - as so many elite sportswomen have said. That may be what society wants - as it has done so often before - putting men's needs and desires ahead of women. So be it. But let's not pretend that this about "fairness", "inclusivity" or "rights" bullshit.
    I agree with much of that.

    I also believe the legitimate interest of government in this matter is a combination of guidance and legislation, rather than just waiting until private parties get sued through the courts.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    CatMan said:

    I would post about the Trans issue, but I have a Trans Step-Son, so will probably end up getting banned, except to say there aren't a group of Male Sports Athletes thinking
    "Oh I know, I'll pretend to be a Woman so I can get lots of medals!"

    Well that’s good news then, as they won’t mind being banned from female competitions.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Andy_JS said:

    "Glastonbury: more middle-class than a Waitrose olive counter"

    I caught up with the wolf Alice, Sam fender sets this afternoon, both very good. And the Billie Eilish, who was a touch Disney time with bad language. 😒
    Watched and enjoyed Crowded House, which has a lot of memories for me. Billy Eilish I dont know the music and I don’t get her, so I turned off...
    Sometimes an album can be quite atmospheric, but the songs don’t work same live. She’s like someone from Disney time, so jolly and cheesy.

    Primal Scream opened with swastika from xtrmtr? It sounded so flat, mogodon remix I moved on straight away.

    The avalanches live soon, they could be fun.

    Ooooooh Frankie Sinatra
    Weirdly just listening to the Primal Scream set and whilst I loved a lot of their music in my teens I get really pissed off with bands that are crap live.

    When you rewatch the Cure’s set from a couple of years ago where they are so ridiculously tight - almost recording studio quality, or an REM concert and then you have bands who just get away with it because people recognise their songs and are “merry” it highlights the real quality.

    And I don’t get the Billie Eyelash thing - nice background music in a cafe when you are an angst student. Oh god I’m old!

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    algarkirk said:

    Anyone here want to defend the court's decision?

    Absolutely. Such issues (I am pro abortion) are for voters and legislators. As they are in the UK. All the SC has done is give USA voters the same rights we enjoy. They have neither banned nor compelled anything at all.

    What inherent right can enshrine the pro abortion principle so that it is beyond the reach of the voters? The debate itself, however dire, shows that the issues are not easy or obvious.

    This whole issue is bedeviled by all the people on all sides who think only one answer is possible or rational.

    Mr Smithson is right: this issue will stir voters to do their job. Good. Perhaps they will demolish Trumpism at the same time too.

    The question is, why did Obama and co not legislate for this - and why is Biden not either?
    Didn't have the votes to do so then. And still don't have them today.
    Didn't the Democrats have 60 votes in the Senate in 2009, as well as control of the House and presidency?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    IshmaelZ said:

    CatMan said:

    I would post about the Trans issue, but I have a Trans Step-Son, so will probably end up getting banned, except to say there aren't a group of Male Sports Athletes thinking "Oh I know, I'll pretend to be a Woman so I can get lots of medals!"

    But there are, look at East Germany back in the day. I don't see what conclusions you think you're drawing from a sample of one with unspecified if any sporting interests
    I don’t think there is a state sponsored effort to get Trans athletes into competition for the glory of Team GB, as there was in the DDR. It raises profound ethical questions and it is the one area of Trans rights I tend to the the reactionary side, but it is not a very common issue.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    edited June 2022

    I've never been banned from PB.

    To get banned, will I have to say ????? is a **** and that they should ***** off a **** with a ***** inserted ***** ***** *** *** ***** before ***** with Jude Law and ****-***** Coldplay ****** into ****** for all eternity?

    Not Coldplay, you numpty. Radiohead!

    Er - that's if you want a ban.

    I'm not dissing Radiohead, honest...
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    IanB2 said:

    On topic, roughly the same proportion of Dems strongly support as Reps strongly oppose. That hardly looks like electoral Armageddon. Sadly.

    So real questions are likely
    > what is the differential in intensity of feeling & motivation on each side?
    > what do independents think, and are they breaking one way or the other?

    Plus
    > how does this play out on state-by-state, district-by-district basis for Congress, governor, legislature, judges and other races on 2022 ballot?
    Particularly around independents, a more insightful question would be where abortion rights sit in the level of priorities.

    There are risks for both parties around the issue. For the GOP, it risks taking away some of the traction they've had in the suburbs off the back of the CRT / trans issues in schools. For the Democrats, the risk would be is it further accelerates the shift of socially conservative Hispanics to the GOP and / or causes friction with parts of the religious Black vote.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    CatMan said:

    I would post about the Trans issue, but I have a Trans Step-Son, so will probably end up getting banned, except to say there aren't a group of Male Sports Athletes thinking "Oh I know, I'll pretend to be a Woman so I can get lots of medals!"

    Yes, the motivation is purely about feeling more comfortable in ones own skin. The whole winning thing is pure coincidence.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    ydoethur said:

    I've never been banned from PB.

    To get banned, will I have to say ????? is a **** and that they should ***** off a **** with a ***** inserted ***** ***** *** *** ***** before ***** with Jude Law and ****-***** Coldplay ****** into ****** for all eternity?

    Not Coldplay, you numpty. Radiohead!

    Er - that's if you want a ban.

    I'm not dissing Radiohead, honest...
    Surely an instant ban for having the temerity to confuse the two - one is a band made up of middle class private school miseries and the other is
This discussion has been closed.