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The LDs step up the tactical squeeze on LAB voters in Devon – politicalbetting.com

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    JonWC said:

    Phone canvassed by the Tories last night. At the start the bloke was talking up their chances but by the end he seemed pretty depressed. Didn't really try to fight back against my claim that anyone who wanted the Tories to win the next election would not be voting Tory at the by-election...

    I phoned in the seat last night and it was evenly divided I would say. There is also zero evidence any alternative Tory leader polls any better than Johnson and indeed on preferred PM polls v Starmer most poll worse
    How are the people you call chosen ?
    In my experience, the caller doesn't know - although sometimes it becomes obvious. You're just given the script to use and log in to get your callers fed to you, one by one.

    You do however hit the nail on the head - in any operation that knows what it is doing, you won't be phoning people chosen at random. So do have to be very careful about drawing conclusions from the range of conversations you have - although the issues and questions people raise can give you a lot of clues as to how the campaign might be going.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690
    edited June 2022

    Just a question, how are the Tories going to break the unions

    Pass primary legislation making strikes illegal for certain key industries, including but not limited to transport workers. If the ECHR blocks the application of that legislation, then leave the ECHR.

    I’m pretty fed up after all these years of Tory govt (7 years with a majority) that they’ve not bothered knocking this on the head. I know I’m not alone.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Wrong - train drivers aren't on strike!
    They certainly are on Thursday, Aslef train drivers are on strike across East Anglia on 23rd June.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Wrong - train drivers aren't on strike!
    Are you sure?
    Yep - the train drivers union is ASLEF, and they aren't striking today. Forthcoming strikes are localised and consist of

    [i] Drivers at Greater Anglia will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 Thursday 23 June 2022.

    [ii] Drivers at Hull Trains will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 on Sunday 26 June.

    [iii] And tram drivers in south London will strike for a fair pay deal from 00:01 on Tuesday 28 June until 23:59 on Wednesday 29 June and from 00:01 on Wednesday 13 July until 23:59 on Thursday 14 July.

    https://aslef.org.uk/publications/britains-train-drivers-union-announces-strike-action
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Funniest post of the day. Do you really think that any politician of any stripe would say that under their watch people have become worse off?

    You are dreaming. Perhaps, just perhaps Jed Bartlet might have said something along those lines. Today's politicians? No way.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Wrong - train drivers aren't on strike!
    They certainly are on Thursday, Aslef train drivers are on strike across East Anglia on 23rd June.
    But Not today - and it's only a regional strike on Thursday. So it's not train drivers that mean I need to drive to Leeds to pick twin B up.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Also unable to say that because of Brexit, and the actions taken to implement a particularly damaging version of it, we are materially worse off.
    Contrast core goods inflation (goods ex food and energy) in the UK and the Euro Area - twice as high in the UK in April thanks to a weaker GBP post-Brexit and additional import costs associated with the trade barriers erected by leaving the single market.
    Brexit is making us all poorer but the government can't admit it.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    EXC: Lord Geidt believes allegations that Boris Johnson tried to appoint his future wife to a plum government job "could be ripe for investigation", Telegraph can reveal.

    PM’s former ethics adviser thinks the incident could be a matter for his successor.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/20/claims-boris-johnson-tried-hire-carrie-chief-staff-ripe-investigation/

    What successor? How can anyone with even the slightest shred of credibility or desire to maintain it take on such a role?
    Well obviously because there are plenty of vacuous, self-absorbed types in the Cabinet who lack any credibilty but have plenty of desire to bask in the glory of the position of being PM.

    I do not know what the Latin for "I'm in charge" is, but Primus inter pares might as well be chucked out the window these days.

    'Oderint dum metuant' would do at a pinch.
    Thank you :)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    moonshine said:

    Just a question, how are the Tories going to break the unions

    Pass primary legislation making strikes illegal for certain key industries, including but not limited to transport workers. If the ECHR blocks the application of that legislation, then leave the ECHR.

    I’m pretty fed up after all these years of Tory govt (7 years with a majority) that they’ve not bothered knocking this on the head. I know I’m not alone.
    If you make strikes illegal then you need a pretty robust independent system for pay arbitration, which government MUST accept recommendations from.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    after 12 years of blaming the last labour government for all their problems, the conservatives have finally started blaming the next labour government for all their problems https://twitter.com/alexhern/status/1539160515292930048/photo/1
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Yes, there is a real problem of the magic money tree having been completely denuded. But this is what happens when you have blanket policies like Sunak's giving millions who are not in need refunds of some of their heating bills instead of focusing on those in need such as those on UC. That was an absurd waste of money for political popularity reasons.

    It is also unacceptable that through NI those that earn their income by work have to pay more heavily than those who receive pensions or dividends or returns on capital.The result is that we are not all in it together but those who are already rich pay less than those who simply get salaries.

    We are in a very difficult economic position and it is going to get worse. A government who habitually lie from the top down and seem to go out of their way to aggravate the problems we already have is not optimal in such a situation.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690

    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Also unable to say that because of Brexit, and the actions taken to implement a particularly damaging version of it, we are materially worse off.
    Contrast core goods inflation (goods ex food and energy) in the UK and the Euro Area - twice as high in the UK in April thanks to a weaker GBP post-Brexit and additional import costs associated with the trade barriers erected by leaving the single market.
    Brexit is making us all poorer but the government can't admit it.
    On Brexit Day GBPEUR traded at 1.19. It’s now 1.16 but as recently as a month so ago traded higher than 1.19. Pretty range bound really.

    If uk core inflation is higher relative to Europe, this most likely has far more to do with relative monetary easing and fiscal spunking during and after covid, albeit leaving a customs union of course increases friction in trade with the members of that custom union.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    EXCLUSIVE: 'Not in public interest' to disclose misconduct probe outcomes against SNP ministers, including Fergus Ewing

    Ministers now claiming the outcome of any misconduct complaint against them should not be made public, whether it is upheld or not.


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539147986965512193

    The SNP called on Number 10 to publish its report into bullying allegations against Priti Patel as "a step towards clamping down on a wider pattern of behaviour"

    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539149277469065216
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690

    moonshine said:

    Just a question, how are the Tories going to break the unions

    Pass primary legislation making strikes illegal for certain key industries, including but not limited to transport workers. If the ECHR blocks the application of that legislation, then leave the ECHR.

    I’m pretty fed up after all these years of Tory govt (7 years with a majority) that they’ve not bothered knocking this on the head. I know I’m not alone.
    If you make strikes illegal then you need a pretty robust independent system for pay arbitration, which government MUST accept recommendations from.
    That doesn’t sound beyond the wit of man to implement.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690
    DavidL said:

    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Yes, there is a real problem of the magic money tree having been completely denuded. But this is what happens when you have blanket policies like Sunak's giving millions who are not in need refunds of some of their heating bills instead of focusing on those in need such as those on UC. That was an absurd waste of money for political popularity reasons.

    It is also unacceptable that through NI those that earn their income by work have to pay more heavily than those who receive pensions or dividends or returns on capital.The result is that we are not all in it together but those who are already rich pay less than those who simply get salaries.

    We are in a very difficult economic position and it is going to get worse. A government who habitually lie from the top down and seem to go out of their way to aggravate the problems we already have is not optimal in such a situation.
    The quandary is that the other parties show no sign of understanding that this is the true failure of this govt.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Oakeshott going all 1926. If so much of the UK press wasn’t already supinely right wing, BJ might be forced to resuscitate the British Gazette.


    In the real world, many people effected are using... drum roll... WFH to work during the strike day(s).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,898
    edited June 2022
    moonshine said:

    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Also unable to say that because of Brexit, and the actions taken to implement a particularly damaging version of it, we are materially worse off.
    Contrast core goods inflation (goods ex food and energy) in the UK and the Euro Area - twice as high in the UK in April thanks to a weaker GBP post-Brexit and additional import costs associated with the trade barriers erected by leaving the single market.
    Brexit is making us all poorer but the government can't admit it.
    On Brexit Day GBPEUR traded at 1.19. It’s now 1.16 but as recently as a month so ago traded higher than 1.19. Pretty range bound really.

    If uk core inflation is higher relative to Europe, this most likely has far more to do with relative monetary easing and fiscal spunking during and after covid, albeit leaving a customs union of course increases friction in trade with the members of that custom union.
    Sterling should be stronger than it currently is against the Euro. Russian energy is far more baked into their system than ours. We've just put up rates, they're waiting and are currently at 0/-0.5%. The counterbalance is basically... brexit.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    EXCLUSIVE: 'Not in public interest' to disclose misconduct probe outcomes against SNP ministers, including Fergus Ewing

    Ministers now claiming the outcome of any misconduct complaint against them should not be made public, whether it is upheld or not.


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539147986965512193

    The SNP called on Number 10 to publish its report into bullying allegations against Priti Patel as "a step towards clamping down on a wider pattern of behaviour"

    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539149277469065216

    As ever, the SNP are just the same as every other party. Never believe anyone who says ' we are not like them, we are squeaky clean, trustworthy and honest'. They aren't.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    moonshine said:

    DavidL said:

    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Yes, there is a real problem of the magic money tree having been completely denuded. But this is what happens when you have blanket policies like Sunak's giving millions who are not in need refunds of some of their heating bills instead of focusing on those in need such as those on UC. That was an absurd waste of money for political popularity reasons.

    It is also unacceptable that through NI those that earn their income by work have to pay more heavily than those who receive pensions or dividends or returns on capital.The result is that we are not all in it together but those who are already rich pay less than those who simply get salaries.

    We are in a very difficult economic position and it is going to get worse. A government who habitually lie from the top down and seem to go out of their way to aggravate the problems we already have is not optimal in such a situation.
    The quandary is that the other parties show no sign of understanding that this is the true failure of this govt.
    Because their solution to every problem is that we should spend even more. Recognising that this is simply not possible or sustainable would force them in opposition to face the same questions that the government is currently dissembling about in government.

    God, we need some real political leadership, we really do.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Just a question, how are the Tories going to break the unions

    Pass primary legislation making strikes illegal for certain key industries, including but not limited to transport workers. If the ECHR blocks the application of that legislation, then leave the ECHR.

    I’m pretty fed up after all these years of Tory govt (7 years with a majority) that they’ve not bothered knocking this on the head. I know I’m not alone.
    If you make strikes illegal then you need a pretty robust independent system for pay arbitration, which government MUST accept recommendations from.
    That doesn’t sound beyond the wit of man to implement.
    And yet we have pay advisory bodies already that the government chooses not to follow.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    moonshine said:

    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Also unable to say that because of Brexit, and the actions taken to implement a particularly damaging version of it, we are materially worse off.
    Contrast core goods inflation (goods ex food and energy) in the UK and the Euro Area - twice as high in the UK in April thanks to a weaker GBP post-Brexit and additional import costs associated with the trade barriers erected by leaving the single market.
    Brexit is making us all poorer but the government can't admit it.
    On Brexit Day GBPEUR traded at 1.19. It’s now 1.16 but as recently as a month so ago traded higher than 1.19. Pretty range bound really.

    If uk core inflation is higher relative to Europe, this most likely has far more to do with relative monetary easing and fiscal spunking during and after covid, albeit leaving a customs union of course increases friction in trade with the members of that custom union.
    That's being a bit naughty with the data, though, isn't it, given that the whole runup to the Brexit referendum depressed the currency. During the couple of years prior the £ ranged from €1.25-€1.4, and there seems little doubt that the currently depressed confidence in our currency owes a lot to our self imposed isolation.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695
    Update on passport control when leaving Portugal:

    Queue of about 50 for 5 gates so a doddle. Passport stamped. No e-gates. Crutch was put through scanner this time so no 'Day of the Jackal' opportunities this time unlike coming out.

    And just to really annoy @Leon there was a notice when we got through about the to be implemented e-gates. Apply to 5 nationalities including UK, but guess what the final instruction is? Yep you have it. You have to queue to get your passport stamped by a human at the end.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,796
    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    Remember who the employer is - Network Rail. They can't switch the office light on without getting approval from the DfT mandarins who are micromanaging the rail network.

    So when Ministers say "its the employer" who must negotiate, they ignore that they won't let them do so.

    Its a lie. An untruth. A deliberate mislead. Its bollocks. They want a strike to do as much damage as possible. That way they can justify closing all station booking offices, removing permanent jobs for agency (more cash for their donors) and blame the whole thing on Labour for not standing up to their non-affiliated non-mates in the RMT.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    DavidL said:

    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Yes, there is a real problem of the magic money tree having been completely denuded. But this is what happens when you have blanket policies like Sunak's giving millions who are not in need refunds of some of their heating bills instead of focusing on those in need such as those on UC. That was an absurd waste of money for political popularity reasons.

    It is also unacceptable that through NI those that earn their income by work have to pay more heavily than those who receive pensions or dividends or returns on capital.The result is that we are not all in it together but those who are already rich pay less than those who simply get salaries.

    We are in a very difficult economic position and it is going to get worse. A government who habitually lie from the top down and seem to go out of their way to aggravate the problems we already have is not optimal in such a situation.
    The quandary is that the other parties show no sign of understanding that this is the true failure of this govt.
    Because their solution to every problem is that we should spend even more. Recognising that this is simply not possible or sustainable would force them in opposition to face the same questions that the government is currently dissembling about in government.

    God, we need some real political leadership, we really do.
    Which is why the government should differentiate itself from the opposition in its thinking.

    Have I mentioned fuel duty?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,796
    DavidL said:

    Funny how "inclusion" only works one way.....

    THE words ‘women’ and ‘girls’ have been erased from a Scottish Government-backed advice leaflet teaching youngsters about periods.

    The taxpayer-funded Young Scot information instead calls women "those of us that have both our ovaries and a womb" and "half the world’s population".

    But information for males about puberty and their voice breaking refers to them as ‘men’ and boys’.


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/9038985/scots-government-backed-puberty-leaflet-women-girls-erased/

    The really frightening nonsense was the new statements that not all women menstruate. Not menstruating in a young woman in her teenage years needs medical intervention and these statements, designed to be inclusive of transgender women, were positively dangerous.
    Plenty of contraceptives stop menstruation completely.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,576
    edited June 2022
    DavidL said:

    Funny how "inclusion" only works one way.....

    THE words ‘women’ and ‘girls’ have been erased from a Scottish Government-backed advice leaflet teaching youngsters about periods.

    The taxpayer-funded Young Scot information instead calls women "those of us that have both our ovaries and a womb" and "half the world’s population".

    But information for males about puberty and their voice breaking refers to them as ‘men’ and boys’.


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/9038985/scots-government-backed-puberty-leaflet-women-girls-erased/

    The really frightening nonsense was the new statements that not all women menstruate. Not menstruating in a young woman in her teenage years needs medical intervention and these statements, designed to be inclusive of transgender women, were positively dangerous.
    Lots of women don't menstruate, being too young, too old, or after hysterectomy; no need to rush them to A&E. This just shows the problem of trying to define women by any singular characteristic chosen at random. It might be easier just to say women and let context do the heavy lifting, as always used to be the case.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287
    edited June 2022
    FWIW, I think @Heathener is spot on and the Tories will lose badly on Thursday in T&H.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Scott_xP said:

    after 12 years of blaming the last labour government for all their problems, the conservatives have finally started blaming the next labour government for all their problems https://twitter.com/alexhern/status/1539160515292930048/photo/1

    The comments under that MP's tweet are hilarious :D
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    moonshine said:

    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Also unable to say that because of Brexit, and the actions taken to implement a particularly damaging version of it, we are materially worse off.
    Contrast core goods inflation (goods ex food and energy) in the UK and the Euro Area - twice as high in the UK in April thanks to a weaker GBP post-Brexit and additional import costs associated with the trade barriers erected by leaving the single market.
    Brexit is making us all poorer but the government can't admit it.
    On Brexit Day GBPEUR traded at 1.19. It’s now 1.16 but as recently as a month so ago traded higher than 1.19. Pretty range bound really.

    If uk core inflation is higher relative to Europe, this most likely has far more to do with relative monetary easing and fiscal spunking during and after covid, albeit leaving a customs union of course increases friction in trade with the members of that custom union.
    GBP is down over 11% y/y in May vs USD. The latest spell of GBP weakness is certainly a factor alongside the direct costs caused by the extra trade frictions. And prices in the UK were already high after the bout of inflation that followed the 2016 devaluation.
    Euro Area countries also had QE and fiscal spending during Covid, and they also have had the pandemic and global supply chain disruption. Only the UK has had Brexit on top of that, and that is why British consumers are getting clobbered more than those on the continent. It is a disastrous economic policy failure that is literally causing our people to go hungry.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited June 2022

    EXCLUSIVE: 'Not in public interest' to disclose misconduct probe outcomes against SNP ministers, including Fergus Ewing

    Ministers now claiming the outcome of any misconduct complaint against them should not be made public, whether it is upheld or not.


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539147986965512193

    The SNP called on Number 10 to publish its report into bullying allegations against Priti Patel as "a step towards clamping down on a wider pattern of behaviour"

    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539149277469065216

    As ever, the SNP are just the same as every other party. Never believe anyone who says ' we are not like them, we are squeaky clean, trustworthy and honest'. They aren't.
    Since you've put it in quotes, any links to people saying 'we are not like them, we are squeaky clean, trustworthy and honest'? They're not BJ and his merry bunch of liars, that'll do for me.

    Did you vote for BJ btw, just so I can put you in context?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    DavidL said:

    Funny how "inclusion" only works one way.....

    THE words ‘women’ and ‘girls’ have been erased from a Scottish Government-backed advice leaflet teaching youngsters about periods.

    The taxpayer-funded Young Scot information instead calls women "those of us that have both our ovaries and a womb" and "half the world’s population".

    But information for males about puberty and their voice breaking refers to them as ‘men’ and boys’.


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/9038985/scots-government-backed-puberty-leaflet-women-girls-erased/

    The really frightening nonsense was the new statements that not all women menstruate. Not menstruating in a young woman in her teenage years needs medical intervention and these statements, designed to be inclusive of transgender women, were positively dangerous.
    Plenty of contraceptives stop menstruation completely.
    I (and many of my friends) are too old to have periods. Are we no longer women? Somebody should have told us! I am shocked!! :open_mouth:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    Your daily obsession with racial issues is becoming somewhat concerning
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    Many years ago, at school, my friends and I were amused by the marking scheme for O levels. A bit of investigation later, we came to the hilarious conclusion that you could (in theory) get

    - an A for Maths O level
    - an A for Maths A level
    - Get a first for your maths degree

    and never actually get *any* answer right (nearly all marks were/are for method).
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    It strikes me that Labour is handling the rail strikes about as well as it can, given the potential risk of outright support for the workers. Regrets that they're happening, but pinning the blame firmly on the government for failing to intervene and seek a solution. (Is ACAS still a thing? I don't know.)

    It also strikes me that in the media war Mick Lynch is a more plausible witness than Shapps or Chris Philp. That may well say more about the latter two than the former, but that's what happens when a government gets a hard-earned reputation for lying constantly. Does anybody believe a word Shapps or Philp says?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,829
    edited June 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    I have been a Tory supporter since I was a child. My parents were as Tory as they come, our home hosted MP surgeries. Our front room was often piled high with election literature and envelopes. That is my dad in the photo.

    https://twitter.com/shaldonangler/status/1538787868662964224

    Thread/hymn of phatboi hate from a lifelong tory

    "lifelong Tory"

    2017: As I said a couple of years back the Tory #LongTermEconomicPlan was based on unsustainable levels of personal debt.
    https://twitter.com/shaldonangler/status/879810710007672838

    2015: I cling to the hope that Clegg benefits from the type of late swing which Major had in 1992
    https://twitter.com/shaldonangler/status/595653788775624704

    Browsing his Tweets, he consistently hates the Tories, and especially for some reason Anne Marie Morris.

    What a remarkable coincidence that while the Lib Dems are fighting the Tories for a by-election, a "lifelong Tory" who has a Tweet history of hating the Tories and liking the Lib Dems for many years now, even 2015, suddenly stops liking the Tories and wants the Lib Dems to win.

    What are the odds of that happening?
  • moonshine said:

    Just a question, how are the Tories going to break the unions

    Pass primary legislation making strikes illegal for certain key industries, including but not limited to transport workers. If the ECHR blocks the application of that legislation, then leave the ECHR.

    I’m pretty fed up after all these years of Tory govt (7 years with a majority) that they’ve not bothered knocking this on the head. I know I’m not alone.
    Banning strikes is anti democratic. So what you are saying is that you hate human rights and democracy okay
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    It strikes me that Labour is handling the rail strikes about as well as it can, given the potential risk of outright support for the workers. Regrets that they're happening, but pinning the blame firmly on the government for failing to intervene and seek a solution. (Is ACAS still a thing? I don't know.)

    It also strikes me that in the media war Mick Lynch is a more plausible witness than Shapps or Chris Philp. That may well say more about the latter two than the former, but that's what happens when a government gets a hard-earned reputation for lying constantly. Does anybody believe a word Shapps or Philp says?

    https://www.acas.org.uk
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited June 2022

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    Remember who the employer is - Network Rail. They can't switch the office light on without getting approval from the DfT mandarins who are micromanaging the rail network.

    So when Ministers say "its the employer" who must negotiate, they ignore that they won't let them do so.

    Its a lie. An untruth. A deliberate mislead. Its bollocks. They want a strike to do as much damage as possible. That way they can justify closing all station booking offices, removing permanent jobs for agency (more cash for their donors) and blame the whole thing on Labour for not standing up to their non-affiliated non-mates in the RMT.
    Perhaps, more simply, the govt needs a labour dispute. They have elections this week.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,570
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    Hmmm. The rest of the document is an excellent approach to inclusivity and engagement in maths teaching, and I'd warmly commend it to the group. So I thought I'd also take ten minutes to see what this list is about.

    https://www.uuare.org/cwsc/

    Good link there. And the discussion of objectivity in terms of worldview, which would include things such as previous experiences of being taught maths, variation of approaches to problems (e.g. analytical, visual), is absolutely applicable to maths teaching. You can easily see how a dominant culture applying a single 'objective' approach to teaching might exclude those who do not share that.

    So I think we can untwist our knickers here. Remember, this is about *teaching* maths. And it isn't about white kids per se, it's about white supremacist teachers constructing an environment which demonstrates their theories that white kids in their classes are "better" at maths than black kids.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Haha very good! Spot on.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Quite so. It is also important that we do THIS:

    "Expose students to mathematicians of color, particularly women of color and queer mathematicians of color"

    It's time the many thousands of famously gay Nigerian mathematicians we're brought back into the curriculum
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    EXCLUSIVE: 'Not in public interest' to disclose misconduct probe outcomes against SNP ministers, including Fergus Ewing

    Ministers now claiming the outcome of any misconduct complaint against them should not be made public, whether it is upheld or not.


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539147986965512193

    The SNP called on Number 10 to publish its report into bullying allegations against Priti Patel as "a step towards clamping down on a wider pattern of behaviour"

    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539149277469065216

    As ever, the SNP are just the same as every other party. Never believe anyone who says ' we are not like them, we are squeaky clean, trustworthy and honest'. They aren't.
    Since you've put it in quotes, any links to people saying 'we are not like them, we are squeaky clean, trustworthy and honest'? They're not BJ and his merry bunch of liars, that'll do for me.

    Did you vote for BJ btw, just so I can put you in context?
    Its note a quote, clearly, its just an illustration of the way parties like to portray themselves when uyp against opponents who have been shown to be dishonest.

    For what its worth, and its none of your business really, I voted for my conservative MP, as I wanted the Brexit shambles resolved, and certainly couldn't for (a) the Lib Dems who would not honour the vote or (b) Labour, under a leader, who if not an actual anti-semite, was at least on very good terms with those who were.

    So you can say I voted for Johnson if you wish, but I think my reasoning was sound.

    I will not vote for the Conservatives at the next election. They have shown themselves to be unfit for office. Just as in 1997 they need to go away and reconnect with the real world.

    Starmer is just about acceptable, although I note others views that he served willingly under Corbyn and indeed stood on a platform of honouring the referendum, then did all he could to overturn it.

    Good enough for you? Feel free to 'put me in context', whatever that means... :)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Yes, what is this Being able to think of more than one thing at once nonsense?

    Don't you regard the immigration crisis as a crisis? Why do you mis specify the colour of immigrants as "brown"? And don't you think that a theory which condemns maths for "either/or thinking" is weird enough to comment on?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Mr. Tubbs, this was also apparent when guidelines on safe drinking levels were altered to be equal between sexes.

    They're not. Men can drink more. That's not sexism, it's just biology. But by pretending equality and prioritising an ideology over reality the message is sent that women can keep up with men when drinking. Which is a great way to promote unhealthy drinking levels by sending out a message that's right-on but sadly does survive contact with reality.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,829
    edited June 2022

    moonshine said:

    Just a question, how are the Tories going to break the unions

    Pass primary legislation making strikes illegal for certain key industries, including but not limited to transport workers. If the ECHR blocks the application of that legislation, then leave the ECHR.

    I’m pretty fed up after all these years of Tory govt (7 years with a majority) that they’ve not bothered knocking this on the head. I know I’m not alone.
    Banning strikes is anti democratic. So what you are saying is that you hate human rights and democracy okay
    Strikes should not be banned, there should be a fundamental right for people who don't want to work for an employer, not to work for them.

    But striking workers absolutely should be allowed to be sacked, or otherwise replaced, without notice or going through disciplinary procedures. Employers ought to be able to treat it as the equivalent of Gross Misconduct and terminate the employment contract immediately.

    If someone wishes not to work for an employer, that's their choice, and that should be respected. What shouldn't be their choice is preventing the employer from finding someone else to do the job instead then.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    Boss of @Ryanair, O'Leary: "This gov't couldn't run a sweet shop. We are fully staffed. But we are hide-bound and hamstrung by a gov't so desperate to show #Brexit has been a success, when it's been an abject failure, it won't allow us to bring in EU workers to do these jobs."~AA https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1539170022295277568/video/1
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798

    EXCLUSIVE: 'Not in public interest' to disclose misconduct probe outcomes against SNP ministers, including Fergus Ewing

    Ministers now claiming the outcome of any misconduct complaint against them should not be made public, whether it is upheld or not.


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539147986965512193

    The SNP called on Number 10 to publish its report into bullying allegations against Priti Patel as "a step towards clamping down on a wider pattern of behaviour"

    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539149277469065216

    As ever, the SNP are just the same as every other party. Never believe anyone who says ' we are not like them, we are squeaky clean, trustworthy and honest'. They aren't.
    Since you've put it in quotes, any links to people saying 'we are not like them, we are squeaky clean, trustworthy and honest'? They're not BJ and his merry bunch of liars, that'll do for me.

    Did you vote for BJ btw, just so I can put you in context?
    Its note a quote, clearly, its just an illustration of the way parties like to portray themselves when uyp against opponents who have been shown to be dishonest.

    For what its worth, and its none of your business really, I voted for my conservative MP, as I wanted the Brexit shambles resolved, and certainly couldn't for (a) the Lib Dems who would not honour the vote or (b) Labour, under a leader, who if not an actual anti-semite, was at least on very good terms with those who were.

    So you can say I voted for Johnson if you wish, but I think my reasoning was sound.

    I will not vote for the Conservatives at the next election. They have shown themselves to be unfit for office. Just as in 1997 they need to go away and reconnect with the real world.

    Starmer is just about acceptable, although I note others views that he served willingly under Corbyn and indeed stood on a platform of honouring the referendum, then did all he could to overturn it.

    Good enough for you? Feel free to 'put me in context', whatever that means... :)
    It puts you in the context of someone bleating about all parties being the same to make themselves feel better about their own political choices and the consequences of them. Fear not, that's a pretty big context on here.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Quite so. It is also important that we do THIS:

    "Expose students to mathematicians of color, particularly women of color and queer mathematicians of color"

    It's time the many thousands of famously gay Nigerian mathematicians we're brought back into the curriculum
    I offer you Nira Chamberlain - lovely man I met when he recieved his honorary degree from Bath recently. Was old at school that maths wasn't for people like him...

    https://www.bath.ac.uk/corporate-information/professor-nira-chamberlain-obe-oration/

    Played a huge role in the design of our current aircraft carriers when the project nearly crashed and burned - he saved it.

    So yes - use examples to show what it possible.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599

    Mr. Tubbs, this was also apparent when guidelines on safe drinking levels were altered to be equal between sexes.

    They're not. Men can drink more. That's not sexism, it's just biology. But by pretending equality and prioritising an ideology over reality the message is sent that women can keep up with men when drinking. Which is a great way to promote unhealthy drinking levels by sending out a message that's right-on but sadly does survive contact with reality.

    Is it size or male/female that dictates how much we can (relatively) safely drink? No idea but would naively assume it is primarily the former? i.e. would it be safer for a 6ft 2 women to drink 25 units per week than a 5'6 man?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Yes, what is this Being able to think of more than one thing at once nonsense?

    Don't you regard the immigration crisis as a crisis? Why do you mis specify the colour of immigrants as "brown"? And don't you think that a theory which condemns maths for "either/or thinking" is weird enough to comment on?
    It's because it makes him deeply uncomfortable, and he'd rather not talk about it, and therefore he'd prefer it if I didn't talk about it, either

    More saliently this Woke shit IS really important. Why? Because the debate on Wokeness in American education is now a national issue in the USA, and the Republicans are using it very effectively (check the debate in California), and parents are switching away from the Democrats

    In short, shit like this might get Trump re-elected, with exactly a 67% chance, as of this morning. But I don't have to show how I worked that out because I am Cornish
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    EXCLUSIVE: 'Not in public interest' to disclose misconduct probe outcomes against SNP ministers, including Fergus Ewing

    Ministers now claiming the outcome of any misconduct complaint against them should not be made public, whether it is upheld or not.


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539147986965512193

    The SNP called on Number 10 to publish its report into bullying allegations against Priti Patel as "a step towards clamping down on a wider pattern of behaviour"

    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539149277469065216

    As ever, the SNP are just the same as every other party. Never believe anyone who says ' we are not like them, we are squeaky clean, trustworthy and honest'. They aren't.
    Since you've put it in quotes, any links to people saying 'we are not like them, we are squeaky clean, trustworthy and honest'? They're not BJ and his merry bunch of liars, that'll do for me.

    Did you vote for BJ btw, just so I can put you in context?
    Its note a quote, clearly, its just an illustration of the way parties like to portray themselves when uyp against opponents who have been shown to be dishonest.

    For what its worth, and its none of your business really, I voted for my conservative MP, as I wanted the Brexit shambles resolved, and certainly couldn't for (a) the Lib Dems who would not honour the vote or (b) Labour, under a leader, who if not an actual anti-semite, was at least on very good terms with those who were.

    So you can say I voted for Johnson if you wish, but I think my reasoning was sound.

    I will not vote for the Conservatives at the next election. They have shown themselves to be unfit for office. Just as in 1997 they need to go away and reconnect with the real world.

    Starmer is just about acceptable, although I note others views that he served willingly under Corbyn and indeed stood on a platform of honouring the referendum, then did all he could to overturn it.

    Good enough for you? Feel free to 'put me in context', whatever that means... :)
    It puts you in the context of someone bleating about all parties being the same to make themselves feel better about their own political choices and the consequences of them. Fear not, that's a pretty big context on here.
    Not really - I see all parties the same anyway. I remember Blair and Eccleston. I recall the Lid Dems in the coalition losing a minister afters days, DAYS, in office over a scandal.

    I have no regret over 2019. I do now want this government gone. The two are not mutually exclusive.

    Did I touch a nerve about the SNP? Awfully sorry old boy!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,796

    moonshine said:

    Just a question, how are the Tories going to break the unions

    Pass primary legislation making strikes illegal for certain key industries, including but not limited to transport workers. If the ECHR blocks the application of that legislation, then leave the ECHR.

    I’m pretty fed up after all these years of Tory govt (7 years with a majority) that they’ve not bothered knocking this on the head. I know I’m not alone.
    Banning strikes is anti democratic. So what you are saying is that you hate human rights and democracy okay
    Strikes should not be banned, there should be a fundamental right for people who don't want to work for an employer, not to work for them.

    But striking workers absolutely should be allowed to be sacked, or otherwise replaced, without notice or going through disciplinary procedures. Employers ought to be able to treat it as the equivalent of Gross Misconduct and terminate the employment contract immediately.

    If someone wishes not to work for an employer, that's their choice, and that should be respected. What shouldn't be their choice is preventing the employer from finding someone else to do the job instead then.
    Not sure what point you are making WRT this strike. You can't just fire signal centre staff and replace them with temps.

    And besides which Network Rail would probably be happy to reach an agreement. If they were allowed to actually negotiate by their owner.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1538989464143421440 This is the Conservative by-election candidate who is supposed to be good???

    She'll fit in well in Johnson's team of fools. Probably in the Cabinet by the Autumn.
    From a professional viewpoint, I've seen worse and have probably had worse days myself. She turns the questions into comfortable territory (pledges - i.e. Brexit - and vaccinations). It's not realistic to expect her to attack Johnson. Lots of boos but it's a hustings and lots of the audience will be committed opponents.
    The basic form of her answer does follow ABC, Acknowledge, Bridge, Communicate, but she does it poorly, I thought. When she’s meant to Acknowledge, she instead dismisses the question as “Westminster-y”, which comes across poorly and makes little sense when she’s standing for Westminster. She could’ve begun instead with a bland “Morality in politics is really important and I judge Boris on delivering pledges…”

    She mishandles the Bridge. She goes from A to C, and needed a better flow, a better Bridge.

    Her tone seems poor later in the question, when there’s heckling. Ignore the heckles or do a “If I can answer the question…”, but she comes across as a bit sneery. I think that’s actually nervousness, but she’ll have to get used to the boos.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,796
    Scott_xP said:

    Boss of @Ryanair, O'Leary: "This gov't couldn't run a sweet shop. We are fully staffed. But we are hide-bound and hamstrung by a gov't so desperate to show #Brexit has been a success, when it's been an abject failure, it won't allow us to bring in EU workers to do these jobs."~AA https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1539170022295277568/video/1

    And this is the question: Why isn't our managed migration regime bringing in people to fill the vacancies that can't otherwise be filled?

    I know that people say "it isn't racist to manage our borders". And it isn't. Unless the outcome is "no forriners at all except the rich ones".

    Points-based migration system my arse. We shut the door and won't open it.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,570
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Quite so. It is also important that we do THIS:

    "Expose students to mathematicians of color, particularly women of color and queer mathematicians of color"

    It's time the many thousands of famously gay Nigerian mathematicians we're brought back into the curriculum
    There's tons of influential black mathematicians in these categories today. It's not about bringing their work into the primary and secondary curriculum, it's about showing their faces and talking about their achievements, more as part of the history of science. Just like we talk about Mary Anning's story to kids when we introduce them to the fossil record. We choose the stories we tell, and it influences the way we see any academic discipline.

    As a slight tangent: one of the worst stories we tell is the "lone genius" (almost always a white guy).

    When in fact almost every great discoverer of the last 150 years or so was supported (technically) by dozens of people (let alone all the people that enabled him the privilege of doing the work in the first place).

    There's a great Stanford GR lecture series where an equation is derived quite simply and then the guy says "but if you want to calculate anything from that; turn to a nearby mathematician. Einstein almost certainly did none of those calculations himself, he had a whole team of people." (And in fact you'd probably turn to solver software today).
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,270
    IanB2 said:

    moonshine said:

    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Also unable to say that because of Brexit, and the actions taken to implement a particularly damaging version of it, we are materially worse off.
    Contrast core goods inflation (goods ex food and energy) in the UK and the Euro Area - twice as high in the UK in April thanks to a weaker GBP post-Brexit and additional import costs associated with the trade barriers erected by leaving the single market.
    Brexit is making us all poorer but the government can't admit it.
    On Brexit Day GBPEUR traded at 1.19. It’s now 1.16 but as recently as a month so ago traded higher than 1.19. Pretty range bound really.

    If uk core inflation is higher relative to Europe, this most likely has far more to do with relative monetary easing and fiscal spunking during and after covid, albeit leaving a customs union of course increases friction in trade with the members of that custom union.
    That's being a bit naughty with the data, though, isn't it, given that the whole runup to the Brexit referendum depressed the currency. During the couple of years prior the £ ranged from €1.25-€1.4, and there seems little doubt that the currently depressed confidence in our currency owes a lot to our self imposed isolation.
    The biggest drop in Sterling relative to the dollar came at the end of 2008/start 2009. It dropped from 2.05 to 1.41 in very short order and has never recovered from there. It is why all these memes about oil prices vs petrol prices compared to 2008 are so stupid. They are not comparing like with like.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Quite so. It is also important that we do THIS:

    "Expose students to mathematicians of color, particularly women of color and queer mathematicians of color"

    It's time the many thousands of famously gay Nigerian mathematicians we're brought back into the curriculum
    There's tons of influential black mathematicians in these categories today. It's not about bringing their work into the primary and secondary curriculum, it's about showing their faces and talking about their achievements, more as part of the history of science. Just like we talk about Mary Anning's story to kids when we introduce them to the fossil record. We choose the stories we tell, and it influences the way we see any academic discipline.

    As a slight tangent: one of the worst stories we tell is the "lone genius" (almost always a white guy).

    When in fact almost every great discoverer of the last 150 years or so was supported (technically) by dozens of people (let alone all the people that enabled him the privilege of doing the work in the first place).

    There's a great Stanford GR lecture series where an equation is derived quite simply and then the guy says "but if you want to calculate anything from that; turn to a nearby mathematician. Einstein almost certainly did none of those calculations himself, he had a whole team of people." (And in fact you'd probably turn to solver software today).
    538 have a good article on this for those who approach such issues from an empirical perspective rather than a particular ideology.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-happens-when-american-children-learn-about-racism/
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    Scott_xP said:

    Boss of @Ryanair, O'Leary: "This gov't couldn't run a sweet shop. We are fully staffed. But we are hide-bound and hamstrung by a gov't so desperate to show #Brexit has been a success, when it's been an abject failure, it won't allow us to bring in EU workers to do these jobs."~AA https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1539170022295277568/video/1

    O'Leary added 'any further quotes can be purchased for a surcharge'
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,898

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Quite so. It is also important that we do THIS:

    "Expose students to mathematicians of color, particularly women of color and queer mathematicians of color"

    It's time the many thousands of famously gay Nigerian mathematicians we're brought back into the curriculum
    I offer you Nira Chamberlain - lovely man I met when he recieved his honorary degree from Bath recently. Was old at school that maths wasn't for people like him...

    https://www.bath.ac.uk/corporate-information/professor-nira-chamberlain-obe-oration/

    Played a huge role in the design of our current aircraft carriers when the project nearly crashed and burned - he saved it.

    So yes - use examples to show what it possible.
    Not Chris Budd are you ?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,829
    edited June 2022

    moonshine said:

    Just a question, how are the Tories going to break the unions

    Pass primary legislation making strikes illegal for certain key industries, including but not limited to transport workers. If the ECHR blocks the application of that legislation, then leave the ECHR.

    I’m pretty fed up after all these years of Tory govt (7 years with a majority) that they’ve not bothered knocking this on the head. I know I’m not alone.
    Banning strikes is anti democratic. So what you are saying is that you hate human rights and democracy okay
    Strikes should not be banned, there should be a fundamental right for people who don't want to work for an employer, not to work for them.

    But striking workers absolutely should be allowed to be sacked, or otherwise replaced, without notice or going through disciplinary procedures. Employers ought to be able to treat it as the equivalent of Gross Misconduct and terminate the employment contract immediately.

    If someone wishes not to work for an employer, that's their choice, and that should be respected. What shouldn't be their choice is preventing the employer from finding someone else to do the job instead then.
    Not sure what point you are making WRT this strike. You can't just fire signal centre staff and replace them with temps.

    And besides which Network Rail would probably be happy to reach an agreement. If they were allowed to actually negotiate by their owner.
    I'm not making any point about this strike, I couldn't give less of a fuck about this strike. Let them strike for years like the NUM did, who gives a shit? Not me.

    I was responding to a point of principle about strikes in general. I wholeheartedly agree with the principle people must be allowed to strike, but a problem in UK law is it is one-sided. Employees can strike, but firing them (as eg Reagan famously did with Air Traffic Controllers) is illegal until months of striking has passed.

    You ought to be able to strike if you want to, but decisions should have consequences and if someone else is wanting to work they ought to be able to do the job instead. We shouldn't have discontented bed blockers holding down the jobs but not doing them, if alternatives are available.

    Of course if no alternatives are available, because terms and conditions are shit, then the employer will need to improve terms and conditions, but that's always the case anyway.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Your first sentence looks suspiciously like the Politics of Envy. I thought that was our gig?
    I have no problem people earning lots of money just as long as they don't stop others working and earning their wage when they do!
    Like the bankers that led to the 2008 crash?

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Mr. Above, unsure.

    Sometimes all else being equal doesn't work with sexual differences. Men and women of the same height and mass, for example, will still have the man with almost twice the muscle just because of the differing muscle/fat proportions.

    Even if you have men and women of equal height, weight, and muscle proportions, more women will still suffer (if they're doing heavy load bearing activity) injuries because male muscle is more resilient.

    Size almost certainly plays a role but that does not mean there isn't a significant (perhaps predominant) affect from other biological factors.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798

    EXCLUSIVE: 'Not in public interest' to disclose misconduct probe outcomes against SNP ministers, including Fergus Ewing

    Ministers now claiming the outcome of any misconduct complaint against them should not be made public, whether it is upheld or not.


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539147986965512193

    The SNP called on Number 10 to publish its report into bullying allegations against Priti Patel as "a step towards clamping down on a wider pattern of behaviour"

    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1539149277469065216

    As ever, the SNP are just the same as every other party. Never believe anyone who says ' we are not like them, we are squeaky clean, trustworthy and honest'. They aren't.
    Since you've put it in quotes, any links to people saying 'we are not like them, we are squeaky clean, trustworthy and honest'? They're not BJ and his merry bunch of liars, that'll do for me.

    Did you vote for BJ btw, just so I can put you in context?
    Its note a quote, clearly, its just an illustration of the way parties like to portray themselves when uyp against opponents who have been shown to be dishonest.

    For what its worth, and its none of your business really, I voted for my conservative MP, as I wanted the Brexit shambles resolved, and certainly couldn't for (a) the Lib Dems who would not honour the vote or (b) Labour, under a leader, who if not an actual anti-semite, was at least on very good terms with those who were.

    So you can say I voted for Johnson if you wish, but I think my reasoning was sound.

    I will not vote for the Conservatives at the next election. They have shown themselves to be unfit for office. Just as in 1997 they need to go away and reconnect with the real world.

    Starmer is just about acceptable, although I note others views that he served willingly under Corbyn and indeed stood on a platform of honouring the referendum, then did all he could to overturn it.

    Good enough for you? Feel free to 'put me in context', whatever that means... :)
    It puts you in the context of someone bleating about all parties being the same to make themselves feel better about their own political choices and the consequences of them. Fear not, that's a pretty big context on here.
    Not really - I see all parties the same anyway. I remember Blair and Eccleston. I recall the Lid Dems in the coalition losing a minister afters days, DAYS, in office over a scandal.

    I have no regret over 2019. I do now want this government gone. The two are not mutually exclusive.

    Did I touch a nerve about the SNP? Awfully sorry old boy!
    Lol, 'touch a nerve' klaxon! So glad that you feel no responsibility for your actions, a new characteristic of Tories it appears.

    That was a quote btw, old boy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    Hmmm. The rest of the document is an excellent approach to inclusivity and engagement in maths teaching, and I'd warmly commend it to the group. So I thought I'd also take ten minutes to see what this list is about.

    https://www.uuare.org/cwsc/

    Good link there. And the discussion of objectivity in terms of worldview, which would include things such as previous experiences of being taught maths, variation of approaches to problems (e.g. analytical, visual), is absolutely applicable to maths teaching. You can easily see how a dominant culture applying a single 'objective' approach to teaching might exclude those who do not share that.

    So I think we can untwist our knickers here. Remember, this is about *teaching* maths. And it isn't about white kids per se, it's about white supremacist teachers constructing an environment which demonstrates their theories that white kids in their classes are "better" at maths than black kids.
    Just checked that link


    Here we go. Here is the list of things included under Perfectionism, which in just one of the.....


    "CHARACTERISTICS OF WHITE SUPREMACY CULTURE
    by Tema Okun (original article)

    This is a list of characteristics of white supremacy culture which show up in our organizations:

    PERFECTIONISM

    little appreciation expressed among people for the work that others are doing; appreciation that is expressed usually directed to those who get most of the credit anyway

    more common is to point out either how the person or work is inadequate

    or even more common, to talk to others about the inadequacies of a person or their work without ever talking directly to them

    mistakes are seen as personal, i.e. they reflect badly on the person making them as opposed to being seen for what they are: mistakes

    making a mistake is confused with being a mistake, doing wrong with being wrong

    little time, energy, or money put into reflection or identifying lessons learned that can improve practice, in other words little or no learning from mistakes

    tendency to identify what’s wrong; little ability to identify, name, and appreciate what’s right"


    In short: white people and white teachers and white kids are intrinsically nasty, mean, selfish, self-centred, spiteful, critical, guilt-ridden and so on, and so forth

    This is pure, bilious racism. This has fuck all to do with "whiteness". Imagine ascribing these characterstics to "blackness" or "Jewishness" or "Chineseness"
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,463

    IanB2 said:

    moonshine said:

    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Also unable to say that because of Brexit, and the actions taken to implement a particularly damaging version of it, we are materially worse off.
    Contrast core goods inflation (goods ex food and energy) in the UK and the Euro Area - twice as high in the UK in April thanks to a weaker GBP post-Brexit and additional import costs associated with the trade barriers erected by leaving the single market.
    Brexit is making us all poorer but the government can't admit it.
    On Brexit Day GBPEUR traded at 1.19. It’s now 1.16 but as recently as a month so ago traded higher than 1.19. Pretty range bound really.

    If uk core inflation is higher relative to Europe, this most likely has far more to do with relative monetary easing and fiscal spunking during and after covid, albeit leaving a customs union of course increases friction in trade with the members of that custom union.
    That's being a bit naughty with the data, though, isn't it, given that the whole runup to the Brexit referendum depressed the currency. During the couple of years prior the £ ranged from €1.25-€1.4, and there seems little doubt that the currently depressed confidence in our currency owes a lot to our self imposed isolation.
    The biggest drop in Sterling relative to the dollar came at the end of 2008/start 2009. It dropped from 2.05 to 1.41 in very short order and has never recovered from there. It is why all these memes about oil prices vs petrol prices compared to 2008 are so stupid. They are not comparing like with like.
    that 2.05 USD to GBP was an absolute rarity....it was off below the average for quite a few years before and after,
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,898
    OK So he crossed the floor, but this is an absolubtely bizarre tweet considering he was elected in 2019 as a Conservative MP.

    Christian Wakeford MP
    @Christian4BuryS
    ·
    1h
    We have quite literally had a Conservative Prime Minister for over 4000 days.

    12 years of failed government and somehow still blaming Labour for your shambles 🤡
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,570

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Quite so. It is also important that we do THIS:

    "Expose students to mathematicians of color, particularly women of color and queer mathematicians of color"

    It's time the many thousands of famously gay Nigerian mathematicians we're brought back into the curriculum
    There's tons of influential black mathematicians in these categories today. It's not about bringing their work into the primary and secondary curriculum, it's about showing their faces and talking about their achievements, more as part of the history of science. Just like we talk about Mary Anning's story to kids when we introduce them to the fossil record. We choose the stories we tell, and it influences the way we see any academic discipline.

    As a slight tangent: one of the worst stories we tell is the "lone genius" (almost always a white guy).

    When in fact almost every great discoverer of the last 150 years or so was supported (technically) by dozens of people (let alone all the people that enabled him the privilege of doing the work in the first place).

    There's a great Stanford GR lecture series where an equation is derived quite simply and then the guy says "but if you want to calculate anything from that; turn to a nearby mathematician. Einstein almost certainly did none of those calculations himself, he had a whole team of people." (And in fact you'd probably turn to solver software today).
    538 have a good article on this for those who approach such issues from an empirical perspective rather than a particular ideology.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-happens-when-american-children-learn-about-racism/
    I might say "presenting different perspectives" rather than "empirical perspective" or "particular ideology". But yes, the impact is huge.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 637

    moonshine said:

    Just a question, how are the Tories going to break the unions

    Pass primary legislation making strikes illegal for certain key industries, including but not limited to transport workers. If the ECHR blocks the application of that legislation, then leave the ECHR.

    I’m pretty fed up after all these years of Tory govt (7 years with a majority) that they’ve not bothered knocking this on the head. I know I’m not alone.
    If you make strikes illegal then you need a pretty robust independent system for pay arbitration, which government MUST accept recommendations from.
    Or simply guarantee the same rise as CPI, or pensions
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994

    Scott_xP said:

    Boss of @Ryanair, O'Leary: "This gov't couldn't run a sweet shop. We are fully staffed. But we are hide-bound and hamstrung by a gov't so desperate to show #Brexit has been a success, when it's been an abject failure, it won't allow us to bring in EU workers to do these jobs."~AA https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1539170022295277568/video/1

    And this is the question: Why isn't our managed migration regime bringing in people to fill the vacancies that can't otherwise be filled?

    I know that people say "it isn't racist to manage our borders". And it isn't. Unless the outcome is "no forriners at all except the rich ones".

    Points-based migration system my arse. We shut the door and won't open it.
    I can tell a post is yours, without scrolling up, just from the use of the word 'forriners'.

    Immigration is running higher right now than it has for many years by and large with public support. So this thesis doesn't stand up to scrutiny, I'm afraid.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Quite so. It is also important that we do THIS:

    "Expose students to mathematicians of color, particularly women of color and queer mathematicians of color"

    It's time the many thousands of famously gay Nigerian mathematicians we're brought back into the curriculum
    I offer you Nira Chamberlain - lovely man I met when he recieved his honorary degree from Bath recently. Was old at school that maths wasn't for people like him...

    https://www.bath.ac.uk/corporate-information/professor-nira-chamberlain-obe-oration/

    Played a huge role in the design of our current aircraft carriers when the project nearly crashed and burned - he saved it.

    So yes - use examples to show what it possible.
    But is he gay? The document says we should PARTICULARLY use "queer mathematicians of color"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Scott_xP said:

    Boss of @Ryanair, O'Leary: "This gov't couldn't run a sweet shop. We are fully staffed. But we are hide-bound and hamstrung by a gov't so desperate to show #Brexit has been a success, when it's been an abject failure, it won't allow us to bring in EU workers to do these jobs."~AA https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1539170022295277568/video/1

    And this is the question: Why isn't our managed migration regime bringing in people to fill the vacancies that can't otherwise be filled?

    I know that people say "it isn't racist to manage our borders". And it isn't. Unless the outcome is "no forriners at all except the rich ones".

    Points-based migration system my arse. We shut the door and won't open it.

    O'Leary is quite famous for er... "sweating" the staff. The current employment situation means that people are choosing not to work for shitty outfits, such as his or BA.

    Strangely, airlines that treat their staff as people, rather than disposables, are finding it much easier to find workers.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Yes, what is this Being able to think of more than one thing at once nonsense?

    Don't you regard the immigration crisis as a crisis? Why do you mis specify the colour of immigrants as "brown"? And don't you think that a theory which condemns maths for "either/or thinking" is weird enough to comment on?
    It's because it makes him deeply uncomfortable, and he'd rather not talk about it, and therefore he'd prefer it if I didn't talk about it, either

    More saliently this Woke shit IS really important. Why? Because the debate on Wokeness in American education is now a national issue in the USA, and the Republicans are using it very effectively (check the debate in California), and parents are switching away from the Democrats

    In short, shit like this might get Trump re-elected, with exactly a 67% chance, as of this morning. But I don't have to show how I worked that out because I am Cornish
    Not uncomfortable, just bored.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,570
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    Hmmm. The rest of the document is an excellent approach to inclusivity and engagement in maths teaching, and I'd warmly commend it to the group. So I thought I'd also take ten minutes to see what this list is about.

    https://www.uuare.org/cwsc/

    Good link there. And the discussion of objectivity in terms of worldview, which would include things such as previous experiences of being taught maths, variation of approaches to problems (e.g. analytical, visual), is absolutely applicable to maths teaching. You can easily see how a dominant culture applying a single 'objective' approach to teaching might exclude those who do not share that.

    So I think we can untwist our knickers here. Remember, this is about *teaching* maths. And it isn't about white kids per se, it's about white supremacist teachers constructing an environment which demonstrates their theories that white kids in their classes are "better" at maths than black kids.
    Just checked that link


    Here we go. Here is the list of things included under Perfectionism, which in just one of the.....


    "CHARACTERISTICS OF WHITE SUPREMACY CULTURE
    by Tema Okun (original article)

    This is a list of characteristics of white supremacy culture which show up in our organizations:

    PERFECTIONISM

    little appreciation expressed among people for the work that others are doing; appreciation that is expressed usually directed to those who get most of the credit anyway

    more common is to point out either how the person or work is inadequate

    or even more common, to talk to others about the inadequacies of a person or their work without ever talking directly to them

    mistakes are seen as personal, i.e. they reflect badly on the person making them as opposed to being seen for what they are: mistakes

    making a mistake is confused with being a mistake, doing wrong with being wrong

    little time, energy, or money put into reflection or identifying lessons learned that can improve practice, in other words little or no learning from mistakes

    tendency to identify what’s wrong; little ability to identify, name, and appreciate what’s right"


    In short: white people and white teachers and white kids are intrinsically nasty, mean, selfish, self-centred, spiteful, critical, guilt-ridden and so on, and so forth

    This is pure, bilious racism. This has fuck all to do with "whiteness". Imagine ascribing these characterstics to "blackness" or "Jewishness" or "Chineseness"
    No - it doesn't say that.

    It says that *people who are trying to control people from a white supremacist perspective do these kinds of things". Which is *absolutely true*.

    Not that "doing any or all of these things makes you a white supremacist". Or that any individual thing is a massive problem in and of itself.

    However, if you apply the antidotes, you get great outcomes *without the negative risks*.

    ETA: For example, these are exactly the kind of things that other cults do too - e.g. the problematic Madrasas which radicalise Islamic youth.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599

    Scott_xP said:

    Boss of @Ryanair, O'Leary: "This gov't couldn't run a sweet shop. We are fully staffed. But we are hide-bound and hamstrung by a gov't so desperate to show #Brexit has been a success, when it's been an abject failure, it won't allow us to bring in EU workers to do these jobs."~AA https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1539170022295277568/video/1

    And this is the question: Why isn't our managed migration regime bringing in people to fill the vacancies that can't otherwise be filled?

    I know that people say "it isn't racist to manage our borders". And it isn't. Unless the outcome is "no forriners at all except the rich ones".

    Points-based migration system my arse. We shut the door and won't open it.

    O'Leary is quite famous for er... "sweating" the staff. The current employment situation means that people are choosing not to work for shitty outfits, such as his or BA.

    Strangely, airlines that treat their staff as people, rather than disposables, are finding it much easier to find workers.
    And yet Ryanair are one of the most reliable airlines at the moment.
  • It seems that "lifelong Tory" that suddenly today wants people to vote Lib Dem today has been advocating people vote Lib Dem since at least 2014, and wanted a Miliband-led Labour and Lib Dem government in 2015.

    Funny sort of lifelong Tory.

    What a remarkable coincidence that a lifelong Tory who has been recommending people vote Lib Dem in every single election since joining Twitter, suddenly decides to recommend the Lib Dems instead of the Tories today of all days? What are the odds?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    Pulpstar said:

    OK So he crossed the floor, but this is an absolubtely bizarre tweet considering he was elected in 2019 as a Conservative MP.

    Christian Wakeford MP
    @Christian4BuryS
    ·
    1h
    We have quite literally had a Conservative Prime Minister for over 4000 days.

    12 years of failed government and somehow still blaming Labour for your shambles 🤡

    The purifying glory of freshly found zealotry.
    Him, and their Lordships Quentin Davies and Shaun Woodward stand arm in arm on the frontline of revolution, brothers
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Mr. Pulpstar, nothing quite like the zeal of the converted.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited June 2022
    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Quite so. It is also important that we do THIS:

    "Expose students to mathematicians of color, particularly women of color and queer mathematicians of color"

    It's time the many thousands of famously gay Nigerian mathematicians we're brought back into the curriculum
    There's tons of influential black mathematicians in these categories today. It's not about bringing their work into the primary and secondary curriculum, it's about showing their faces and talking about their achievements, more as part of the history of science. Just like we talk about Mary Anning's story to kids when we introduce them to the fossil record. We choose the stories we tell, and it influences the way we see any academic discipline.

    As a slight tangent: one of the worst stories we tell is the "lone genius" (almost always a white guy).

    When in fact almost every great discoverer of the last 150 years or so was supported (technically) by dozens of people (let alone all the people that enabled him the privilege of doing the work in the first place).

    There's a great Stanford GR lecture series where an equation is derived quite simply and then the guy says "but if you want to calculate anything from that; turn to a nearby mathematician. Einstein almost certainly did none of those calculations himself, he had a whole team of people." (And in fact you'd probably turn to solver software today).
    One of the leading mathematicians alive today (some would say THE leading mathematician) is Terence Chi Shen Tao. The identity clue is in his name....

    And then was the utter genius of Ramanujan
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994

    IanB2 said:

    moonshine said:

    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Also unable to say that because of Brexit, and the actions taken to implement a particularly damaging version of it, we are materially worse off.
    Contrast core goods inflation (goods ex food and energy) in the UK and the Euro Area - twice as high in the UK in April thanks to a weaker GBP post-Brexit and additional import costs associated with the trade barriers erected by leaving the single market.
    Brexit is making us all poorer but the government can't admit it.
    On Brexit Day GBPEUR traded at 1.19. It’s now 1.16 but as recently as a month so ago traded higher than 1.19. Pretty range bound really.

    If uk core inflation is higher relative to Europe, this most likely has far more to do with relative monetary easing and fiscal spunking during and after covid, albeit leaving a customs union of course increases friction in trade with the members of that custom union.
    That's being a bit naughty with the data, though, isn't it, given that the whole runup to the Brexit referendum depressed the currency. During the couple of years prior the £ ranged from €1.25-€1.4, and there seems little doubt that the currently depressed confidence in our currency owes a lot to our self imposed isolation.
    The biggest drop in Sterling relative to the dollar came at the end of 2008/start 2009. It dropped from 2.05 to 1.41 in very short order and has never recovered from there. It is why all these memes about oil prices vs petrol prices compared to 2008 are so stupid. They are not comparing like with like.
    Our labour market is still very strong and there are upwards of a million jobs that can't be filled.

    If we were in the EU my guess is that sterling would be slightly stronger - there'd be no uncertainty about ongoing trading arrangements over NI, for one thing - and free movement would pull in hundreds of thousands of extra EU workers a year to fill those jobs, which would expand the economy overall, but do very little to improve GDP capita per head.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,570

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Quite so. It is also important that we do THIS:

    "Expose students to mathematicians of color, particularly women of color and queer mathematicians of color"

    It's time the many thousands of famously gay Nigerian mathematicians we're brought back into the curriculum
    There's tons of influential black mathematicians in these categories today. It's not about bringing their work into the primary and secondary curriculum, it's about showing their faces and talking about their achievements, more as part of the history of science. Just like we talk about Mary Anning's story to kids when we introduce them to the fossil record. We choose the stories we tell, and it influences the way we see any academic discipline.

    As a slight tangent: one of the worst stories we tell is the "lone genius" (almost always a white guy).

    When in fact almost every great discoverer of the last 150 years or so was supported (technically) by dozens of people (let alone all the people that enabled him the privilege of doing the work in the first place).

    There's a great Stanford GR lecture series where an equation is derived quite simply and then the guy says "but if you want to calculate anything from that; turn to a nearby mathematician. Einstein almost certainly did none of those calculations himself, he had a whole team of people." (And in fact you'd probably turn to solver software today).
    One of the leading mathematicians alive today (some would say THE leading mathematician) is Terence Chi Shen Tao. The identity clue is in his name....

    And then was the utter genius of Ramanujan
    I was going to reference Ramanujan and then I thought "but surely everyone has heard of Ramanujan and people would say 'see! we do celebrate non-white mathematicians!'"
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Pulpstar said:

    OK So he crossed the floor, but this is an absolubtely bizarre tweet considering he was elected in 2019 as a Conservative MP.

    Christian Wakeford MP
    @Christian4BuryS
    ·
    1h
    We have quite literally had a Conservative Prime Minister for over 4000 days.

    12 years of failed government and somehow still blaming Labour for your shambles 🤡

    The purifying glory of freshly found zealotry.
    Him, and their Lordships Quentin Davies and Shaun Woodward stand arm in arm on the frontline of revolution, brothers
    Don't forget our very own @williamglenn.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    Pulpstar said:

    OK So he crossed the floor, but this is an absolubtely bizarre tweet considering he was elected in 2019 as a Conservative MP.

    Christian Wakeford MP
    @Christian4BuryS
    ·
    1h
    We have quite literally had a Conservative Prime Minister for over 4000 days.

    12 years of failed government and somehow still blaming Labour for your shambles 🤡

    He's a complete and utter moron.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Boss of @Ryanair, O'Leary: "This gov't couldn't run a sweet shop. We are fully staffed. But we are hide-bound and hamstrung by a gov't so desperate to show #Brexit has been a success, when it's been an abject failure, it won't allow us to bring in EU workers to do these jobs."~AA https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1539170022295277568/video/1

    And this is the question: Why isn't our managed migration regime bringing in people to fill the vacancies that can't otherwise be filled?

    I know that people say "it isn't racist to manage our borders". And it isn't. Unless the outcome is "no forriners at all except the rich ones".

    Points-based migration system my arse. We shut the door and won't open it.
    We have record migration, and people are OK with it. Funny sort of racism, or closed door.

    If you're struggling to fill vacancies, maybe try not being a shit employer, expecting people to work for shit wages, with shit terms and conditions, and treating your employees as disposable and replaceable identikit pieces of shit?
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 287
    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    This culture war shit of yours is so boring. The British economy is heading down the toilet thanks to Tory incompetence, no wonder you are so desperate to distract. Where are the answers on the Right? There are none. But oh look, maths in California has gone woke! Chicks with dicks in your toilet! Critical race theory is doubling the price of your weekly shop! Aslef is turning our kids gay! Brown people are coming in dinghies and Christmas is getting cancelled!
    Quite so. It is also important that we do THIS:

    "Expose students to mathematicians of color, particularly women of color and queer mathematicians of color"

    It's time the many thousands of famously gay Nigerian mathematicians we're brought back into the curriculum
    There's tons of influential black mathematicians in these categories today. It's not about bringing their work into the primary and secondary curriculum, it's about showing their faces and talking about their achievements, more as part of the history of science. Just like we talk about Mary Anning's story to kids when we introduce them to the fossil record. We choose the stories we tell, and it influences the way we see any academic discipline.

    As a slight tangent: one of the worst stories we tell is the "lone genius" (almost always a white guy).

    When in fact almost every great discoverer of the last 150 years or so was supported (technically) by dozens of people (let alone all the people that enabled him the privilege of doing the work in the first place).

    There's a great Stanford GR lecture series where an equation is derived quite simply and then the guy says "but if you want to calculate anything from that; turn to a nearby mathematician. Einstein almost certainly did none of those calculations himself, he had a whole team of people." (And in fact you'd probably turn to solver software today).
    This seems to be very typical of modern equality thinking in that it is factually incorrect.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Your first sentence looks suspiciously like the Politics of Envy. I thought that was our gig?
    I have no problem people earning lots of money just as long as they don't stop others working and earning their wage when they do!
    Like the bankers that led to the 2008 crash?

    In many respects it was excess leading to individual home buyers and businesses that led to the crash
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,796

    moonshine said:

    Just a question, how are the Tories going to break the unions

    Pass primary legislation making strikes illegal for certain key industries, including but not limited to transport workers. If the ECHR blocks the application of that legislation, then leave the ECHR.

    I’m pretty fed up after all these years of Tory govt (7 years with a majority) that they’ve not bothered knocking this on the head. I know I’m not alone.
    Banning strikes is anti democratic. So what you are saying is that you hate human rights and democracy okay
    Strikes should not be banned, there should be a fundamental right for people who don't want to work for an employer, not to work for them.

    But striking workers absolutely should be allowed to be sacked, or otherwise replaced, without notice or going through disciplinary procedures. Employers ought to be able to treat it as the equivalent of Gross Misconduct and terminate the employment contract immediately.

    If someone wishes not to work for an employer, that's their choice, and that should be respected. What shouldn't be their choice is preventing the employer from finding someone else to do the job instead then.
    Not sure what point you are making WRT this strike. You can't just fire signal centre staff and replace them with temps.

    And besides which Network Rail would probably be happy to reach an agreement. If they were allowed to actually negotiate by their owner.
    I'm not making any point about this strike, I couldn't give less of a fuck about this strike. Let them strike for years like the NUM did, who gives a shit? Not me.

    I was responding to a point of principle about strikes in general. I wholeheartedly agree with the principle people must be allowed to strike, but a problem in UK law is it is one-sided. Employees can strike, but firing them (as eg Reagan famously did with Air Traffic Controllers) is illegal until months of striking has passed.

    You ought to be able to strike if you want to, but decisions should have consequences and if someone else is wanting to work they ought to be able to do the job instead. We shouldn't have discontented bed blockers holding down the jobs but not doing them, if alternatives are available.

    Of course if no alternatives are available, because terms and conditions are shit, then the employer will need to improve terms and conditions, but that's always the case anyway.
    Alternatives - as in more staff - are what everyone recognises is needed. The government point blank refuses to allow the likes of Network Rail and the train operators to hire enough staff to be able to operate without overtime.

    So if your solution is hire more staff then great - you have removed a significant driver of the strikes and work to rule actions.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    edited June 2022
    I had a wander down to Woking station this morning to see what was going on. It actually has a decent service to London today, but it was very quiet. Just a few people in the booking office. There was actually someone at the counter.

    Plenty of RMT members outside. Fair play for them turning up rather than just enjoying the sunshine.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,796

    Scott_xP said:

    Boss of @Ryanair, O'Leary: "This gov't couldn't run a sweet shop. We are fully staffed. But we are hide-bound and hamstrung by a gov't so desperate to show #Brexit has been a success, when it's been an abject failure, it won't allow us to bring in EU workers to do these jobs."~AA https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1539170022295277568/video/1

    And this is the question: Why isn't our managed migration regime bringing in people to fill the vacancies that can't otherwise be filled?

    I know that people say "it isn't racist to manage our borders". And it isn't. Unless the outcome is "no forriners at all except the rich ones".

    Points-based migration system my arse. We shut the door and won't open it.
    I can tell a post is yours, without scrolling up, just from the use of the word 'forriners'.

    Immigration is running higher right now than it has for many years by and large with public support. So this thesis doesn't stand up to scrutiny, I'm afraid.
    Great! So why can't we fill any of these posts?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    Hmmm. The rest of the document is an excellent approach to inclusivity and engagement in maths teaching, and I'd warmly commend it to the group. So I thought I'd also take ten minutes to see what this list is about.

    https://www.uuare.org/cwsc/

    Good link there. And the discussion of objectivity in terms of worldview, which would include things such as previous experiences of being taught maths, variation of approaches to problems (e.g. analytical, visual), is absolutely applicable to maths teaching. You can easily see how a dominant culture applying a single 'objective' approach to teaching might exclude those who do not share that.

    So I think we can untwist our knickers here. Remember, this is about *teaching* maths. And it isn't about white kids per se, it's about white supremacist teachers constructing an environment which demonstrates their theories that white kids in their classes are "better" at maths than black kids.
    Just checked that link


    Here we go. Here is the list of things included under Perfectionism, which in just one of the.....


    "CHARACTERISTICS OF WHITE SUPREMACY CULTURE
    by Tema Okun (original article)

    This is a list of characteristics of white supremacy culture which show up in our organizations:

    PERFECTIONISM

    little appreciation expressed among people for the work that others are doing; appreciation that is expressed usually directed to those who get most of the credit anyway

    more common is to point out either how the person or work is inadequate

    or even more common, to talk to others about the inadequacies of a person or their work without ever talking directly to them

    mistakes are seen as personal, i.e. they reflect badly on the person making them as opposed to being seen for what they are: mistakes

    making a mistake is confused with being a mistake, doing wrong with being wrong

    little time, energy, or money put into reflection or identifying lessons learned that can improve practice, in other words little or no learning from mistakes

    tendency to identify what’s wrong; little ability to identify, name, and appreciate what’s right"


    In short: white people and white teachers and white kids are intrinsically nasty, mean, selfish, self-centred, spiteful, critical, guilt-ridden and so on, and so forth

    This is pure, bilious racism. This has fuck all to do with "whiteness". Imagine ascribing these characterstics to "blackness" or "Jewishness" or "Chineseness"
    No - it doesn't say that.

    It says that *people who are trying to control people from a white supremacist perspective do these kinds of things". Which is *absolutely true*.

    Not that "doing any or all of these things makes you a white supremacist". Or that any individual thing is a massive problem in and of itself.

    However, if you apply the antidotes, you get great outcomes *without the negative risks*.

    ETA: For example, these are exactly the kind of things that other cults do too - e.g. the problematic Madrasas which radicalise Islamic youth.
    More from your link:


    "White supremacy culture is inextricably linked to all the other oppressions - capitalism, sexism, class and gender oppression, ableism, ageism, Christian hegemony - these and more are all interconnected and intersected and stirred together in a toxic brew that is reflected in our devastation of the air and water and land and living beings we have and are destroying and disregarding in the name of profit and power. This brew is a cancer, a dis-ease, an addiction, an infliction and it infects everything with and without our awareness. The miracle is that we have survived as well as we have, the miracle is our ancestors who have fought to remember who we really are, the miracle is the earth and wind and water that restores itself in soft and fierce determination to keep us all whole. "


    Basically white people are killing the earth, and white people are evil. I can't see any other way of interpreting this. And you want this in our classroom as they are now smuggling it into American classrooms?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599

    IanB2 said:

    moonshine said:

    JonWC said:

    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
    Also unable to say that because of Brexit, and the actions taken to implement a particularly damaging version of it, we are materially worse off.
    Contrast core goods inflation (goods ex food and energy) in the UK and the Euro Area - twice as high in the UK in April thanks to a weaker GBP post-Brexit and additional import costs associated with the trade barriers erected by leaving the single market.
    Brexit is making us all poorer but the government can't admit it.
    On Brexit Day GBPEUR traded at 1.19. It’s now 1.16 but as recently as a month so ago traded higher than 1.19. Pretty range bound really.

    If uk core inflation is higher relative to Europe, this most likely has far more to do with relative monetary easing and fiscal spunking during and after covid, albeit leaving a customs union of course increases friction in trade with the members of that custom union.
    That's being a bit naughty with the data, though, isn't it, given that the whole runup to the Brexit referendum depressed the currency. During the couple of years prior the £ ranged from €1.25-€1.4, and there seems little doubt that the currently depressed confidence in our currency owes a lot to our self imposed isolation.
    The biggest drop in Sterling relative to the dollar came at the end of 2008/start 2009. It dropped from 2.05 to 1.41 in very short order and has never recovered from there. It is why all these memes about oil prices vs petrol prices compared to 2008 are so stupid. They are not comparing like with like.
    that 2.05 USD to GBP was an absolute rarity....it was off below the average for quite a few years before and after,
    Averaged 1.64 in the 1990s, 1.70 in the 2000s, 1.47 in the 2010s (1.57 pre Brexit,1.29 post Brexit), 1.32 so far in the 2020s
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,898

    It seems that "lifelong Tory" that suddenly today wants people to vote Lib Dem today has been advocating people vote Lib Dem since at least 2014, and wanted a Miliband-led Labour and Lib Dem government in 2015.

    Funny sort of lifelong Tory.

    What a remarkable coincidence that a lifelong Tory who has been recommending people vote Lib Dem in every single election since joining Twitter, suddenly decides to recommend the Lib Dems instead of the Tories today of all days? What are the odds?

    Yeah, also see Wakeford's tweets. The number of people that make an objective decision on government; and are genuinely able to vote for either party on any particular election day is appalingly small. They do exist, but overwhemingly the next election will still be decided by which side is able to get it's vote out as most people's choice at any election is between voting for their side or staying home.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    Many years ago, at school, my friends and I were amused by the marking scheme for O levels. A bit of investigation later, we came to the hilarious conclusion that you could (in theory) get

    - an A for Maths O level
    - an A for Maths A level
    - Get a first for your maths degree

    and never actually get *any* answer right (nearly all marks were/are for method).
    This is not exactly a new idea:
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=new+math+song&view=detail&mid=DCD6A7B96A4AB0F4232FDCD6A7B96A4AB0F4232F&FORM=VIRE0&ru=/search?q=new+math+song&cvid=cad246897eaa4d2c9c5d2fbba622662b&aqs=edge.1.69i57j0l8.6360j0j1&pglt=43&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=DCTS
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,829
    edited June 2022

    moonshine said:

    Just a question, how are the Tories going to break the unions

    Pass primary legislation making strikes illegal for certain key industries, including but not limited to transport workers. If the ECHR blocks the application of that legislation, then leave the ECHR.

    I’m pretty fed up after all these years of Tory govt (7 years with a majority) that they’ve not bothered knocking this on the head. I know I’m not alone.
    Banning strikes is anti democratic. So what you are saying is that you hate human rights and democracy okay
    Strikes should not be banned, there should be a fundamental right for people who don't want to work for an employer, not to work for them.

    But striking workers absolutely should be allowed to be sacked, or otherwise replaced, without notice or going through disciplinary procedures. Employers ought to be able to treat it as the equivalent of Gross Misconduct and terminate the employment contract immediately.

    If someone wishes not to work for an employer, that's their choice, and that should be respected. What shouldn't be their choice is preventing the employer from finding someone else to do the job instead then.
    Not sure what point you are making WRT this strike. You can't just fire signal centre staff and replace them with temps.

    And besides which Network Rail would probably be happy to reach an agreement. If they were allowed to actually negotiate by their owner.
    I'm not making any point about this strike, I couldn't give less of a fuck about this strike. Let them strike for years like the NUM did, who gives a shit? Not me.

    I was responding to a point of principle about strikes in general. I wholeheartedly agree with the principle people must be allowed to strike, but a problem in UK law is it is one-sided. Employees can strike, but firing them (as eg Reagan famously did with Air Traffic Controllers) is illegal until months of striking has passed.

    You ought to be able to strike if you want to, but decisions should have consequences and if someone else is wanting to work they ought to be able to do the job instead. We shouldn't have discontented bed blockers holding down the jobs but not doing them, if alternatives are available.

    Of course if no alternatives are available, because terms and conditions are shit, then the employer will need to improve terms and conditions, but that's always the case anyway.
    Alternatives - as in more staff - are what everyone recognises is needed. The government point blank refuses to allow the likes of Network Rail and the train operators to hire enough staff to be able to operate without overtime.

    So if your solution is hire more staff then great - you have removed a significant driver of the strikes and work to rule actions.
    Are they refusing to allow them to hire more staff, or are they refusing to increase the budget to do so while giving pay rises? 🤔

    They should hire whatever staff they can afford, and pay whatever wages they can afford, from the budget they have available to them. It isn't the government's job to give them a bigger budget.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    Many years ago, at school, my friends and I were amused by the marking scheme for O levels. A bit of investigation later, we came to the hilarious conclusion that you could (in theory) get

    - an A for Maths O level
    - an A for Maths A level
    - Get a first for your maths degree

    and never actually get *any* answer right (nearly all marks were/are for method).
    This is not exactly a new idea:
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=new+math+song&view=detail&mid=DCD6A7B96A4AB0F4232FDCD6A7B96A4AB0F4232F&FORM=VIRE0&ru=/search?q=new+math+song&cvid=cad246897eaa4d2c9c5d2fbba622662b&aqs=edge.1.69i57j0l8.6360j0j1&pglt=43&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=DCTS
    Oh, indeed.

    But it struck a bunch of 15 year olds as funny.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    I think it behoves us all to read this document on getting racism out of maths, a document which is now part of the Californian education system. Here's an excerpt about "white supremacy" in the mathematics classroom




    NOTES ON TERMS
    The terms used in the engagement section of this resource are ideas presented in the dismantling Racism workbook
    (2016) notebook, grounded on the work of Jones and Okun (2001). It is important to read this article first to fully
    understand the terms that are identified as characteristics of white supremacy culture in organizations. We contextualize these ideas into the math classroom to make visible how white supremacy culture plays out in these spaces.

    As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics as
    defined by Jones and Okun (2001). They are as follows:

    • Perfectionism
    • Sense of Urgency
    • Defensiveness
    • Quantity Over Quality
    • Worship of the Written Word
    • Paternalism
    • Either/Or Thinking
    • Power Hoarding
    • Fear of Open Conflict
    • Individualism
    • Only One Right Way
    • Progress is Bigger, More
    • Objectivity
    • Right to Comfort

    Damn those white kids doing maths with their "objectivity", "sense of urgency", perfectionism", and "fear of open conflict", what maths needs is "subjectivity", "a sense of Whatever", "who cares if its right", and "open conflict"

    https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf

    Hmmm. The rest of the document is an excellent approach to inclusivity and engagement in maths teaching, and I'd warmly commend it to the group. So I thought I'd also take ten minutes to see what this list is about.

    https://www.uuare.org/cwsc/

    Good link there. And the discussion of objectivity in terms of worldview, which would include things such as previous experiences of being taught maths, variation of approaches to problems (e.g. analytical, visual), is absolutely applicable to maths teaching. You can easily see how a dominant culture applying a single 'objective' approach to teaching might exclude those who do not share that.

    So I think we can untwist our knickers here. Remember, this is about *teaching* maths. And it isn't about white kids per se, it's about white supremacist teachers constructing an environment which demonstrates their theories that white kids in their classes are "better" at maths than black kids.
    Just checked that link


    Here we go. Here is the list of things included under Perfectionism, which in just one of the.....


    "CHARACTERISTICS OF WHITE SUPREMACY CULTURE
    by Tema Okun (original article)

    This is a list of characteristics of white supremacy culture which show up in our organizations:

    PERFECTIONISM

    little appreciation expressed among people for the work that others are doing; appreciation that is expressed usually directed to those who get most of the credit anyway

    more common is to point out either how the person or work is inadequate

    or even more common, to talk to others about the inadequacies of a person or their work without ever talking directly to them

    mistakes are seen as personal, i.e. they reflect badly on the person making them as opposed to being seen for what they are: mistakes

    making a mistake is confused with being a mistake, doing wrong with being wrong

    little time, energy, or money put into reflection or identifying lessons learned that can improve practice, in other words little or no learning from mistakes

    tendency to identify what’s wrong; little ability to identify, name, and appreciate what’s right"


    In short: white people and white teachers and white kids are intrinsically nasty, mean, selfish, self-centred, spiteful, critical, guilt-ridden and so on, and so forth

    This is pure, bilious racism. This has fuck all to do with "whiteness". Imagine ascribing these characterstics to "blackness" or "Jewishness" or "Chineseness"
    Have you read The War on The West by Douglas Murray?

    I'm reading it now and he exposes this movement brilliantly, and how it's managed to capture so many highly educated people throughout the West. And he manages to be quite measured and fair throughout with all the evidence cited and referenced. For you to draw your own conclusions.

    The people that need to read his book the most never will. Because it's Douglas Murray.
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