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The LDs step up the tactical squeeze on LAB voters in Devon – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited June 21 in General
imageThe LDs step up the tactical squeeze on LAB voters in Devon – politicalbetting.com

The technique of releasing canvassing data as if it was a proper poll in order to put the squeeze on Labour voters was first used by the Lib Dems in the Richmond Park by-election in 2016.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 32,326
    edited June 21
    First...

    Like the Tories nowhere.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 39,028
    Who wants to be 2nd?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,708
    EXC: Lord Geidt believes allegations that Boris Johnson tried to appoint his future wife to a plum government job "could be ripe for investigation", Telegraph can reveal.

    PM’s former ethics adviser thinks the incident could be a matter for his successor.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/20/claims-boris-johnson-tried-hire-carrie-chief-staff-ripe-investigation/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,708
    Sandpit said:

    Who wants to be 2nd?

    Coming second is great.

    But not in politics or sport.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,708

    EXC: Lord Geidt believes allegations that Boris Johnson tried to appoint his future wife to a plum government job "could be ripe for investigation", Telegraph can reveal.

    PM’s former ethics adviser thinks the incident could be a matter for his successor.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/20/claims-boris-johnson-tried-hire-carrie-chief-staff-ripe-investigation/

    LOL

    It comes as the Foreign Affairs Committee plans to question Liz Truss about the alleged incident next week.

    MPs are discussing questions for the Foreign Secretary ahead of a committee appearance.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,079
    As the sixth anniversary of the UK’s vote to leave the EU approaches, economists are starting to quantify the damage caused by raising trade barriers with its biggest market. They conclude that the damage is real and it is not over yet https://on.ft.com/3xCiVXG https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1538899542799695873/photo/1
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,634

    EXC: Lord Geidt believes allegations that Boris Johnson tried to appoint his future wife to a plum government job "could be ripe for investigation", Telegraph can reveal.

    PM’s former ethics adviser thinks the incident could be a matter for his successor.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/20/claims-boris-johnson-tried-hire-carrie-chief-staff-ripe-investigation/

    Successor ?

    More like failure or ....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,634
    Scott_xP said:

    As the sixth anniversary of the UK’s vote to leave the EU approaches, economists are starting to quantify the damage caused by raising trade barriers with its biggest market. They conclude that the damage is real and it is not over yet https://on.ft.com/3xCiVXG https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1538899542799695873/photo/1

    It's worth it, so we can leave the ECHR.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    edited June 21
    Mornin' all.

    Tiverton & Honiton is going to be a thumping LibDem win.

    It will send a shockwave and probably hasten the end of Boris Johnson.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,634
    edited June 21
    Did we do this yet ?

    People who cannot stand on one leg for 10 seconds are found to be almost twice as likely to die within 10 years
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/20/balancing-on-one-leg-useful-health-test-later-life-research

    I'm sitting down.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,830
    edited June 21
    Stop taking Devon for granted says the paper in the header, and much of the other T&H material also talks about Devon. Is there a regional issue here? Have Cornwall and Dorset mopped up all the development funds?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,830
    OT Cloudflare has been selectively down this morning, affecting pb and many other sites.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    edited June 21
    By the way, I'm sure this has been picked up but re. the last thread, this might not even rank in the Top 10 by-election swings? The LibDems need, by my reckoning, a 22% swing and I think they will have a swing of 30%+

    It's going to be big but here are the list of record swings:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_by-election_records#Largest_swings
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,044

    OT Cloudflare has been selectively down this morning, affecting pb and many other sites.

    Working fine on my desktop but not on phone/tablet
  • 🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,830
    Nigelb said:

    Did we do this yet ?

    People who cannot stand on one leg for 10 seconds are found to be almost twice as likely to die within 10 years
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/20/balancing-on-one-leg-useful-health-test-later-life-research

    I'm sitting down.

    I can stand on one leg for shoelace-tying purposes. Standing on one leg with eyes closed is more-or-less impossible though — does that mean I will die in my sleep?
  • 'Why aren't you rolling up your sleeves and getting around the table with the unions?' - #KayBurley

    Transport Sec @grantshapps: 'If I thought there was even a one in a million chance that my being in the room would help sort it out, then I'd be there.'

    So in summary, Grant Shapps is a waste of space.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,652

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Daily Express editors?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,044
    I have been a Tory supporter since I was a child. My parents were as Tory as they come, our home hosted MP surgeries. Our front room was often piled high with election literature and envelopes. That is my dad in the photo.

    https://twitter.com/shaldonangler/status/1538787868662964224

    Thread/hymn of phatboi hate from a lifelong tory
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    IshmaelZ said:

    I have been a Tory supporter since I was a child. My parents were as Tory as they come, our home hosted MP surgeries. Our front room was often piled high with election literature and envelopes. That is my dad in the photo.

    https://twitter.com/shaldonangler/status/1538787868662964224

    Thread/hymn of phatboi hate from a lifelong tory

    Wow
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,634

    Nigelb said:

    Did we do this yet ?

    People who cannot stand on one leg for 10 seconds are found to be almost twice as likely to die within 10 years
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/20/balancing-on-one-leg-useful-health-test-later-life-research

    I'm sitting down.

    I can stand on one leg for shoelace-tying purposes. Standing on one leg with eyes closed is more-or-less impossible though — does that mean I will die in my sleep?
    No.
    Just that you won't be able to sleep on one leg, I think.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,652
    Heathener said:

    Mornin' all.

    Tiverton & Honiton is going to be a thumping LibDem win.

    It will send a shockwave and probably hasten the end of Boris Johnson.

    I doubt it (the end bit).

    The rebels blew it by not waiting to send their letters in until this Friday, after the by-elections. They will have to try again next spring assuming they can find some pretext to force another VONC.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,830
    UK mortgage lenders told they can scrap affordability rule for buyers
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jun/20/uk-mortgage-lenders-told-they-can-scrap-affordability-rules-for-buyers-bank-of-england

    What could go wrong?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,376

    Scott_xP said:

    As the sixth anniversary of the UK’s vote to leave the EU approaches, economists are starting to quantify the damage caused by raising trade barriers with its biggest market. They conclude that the damage is real and it is not over yet https://on.ft.com/3xCiVXG https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1538899542799695873/photo/1

    Early days Scott, let's see how it looks in 2066 shall we?
    Oh irony.......
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,634
    First use of "world beating" in election materials ?
    Possibly sub-optimal.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/PrezWisdom/status/1538900499688210436
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,827
    IshmaelZ said:

    I have been a Tory supporter since I was a child. My parents were as Tory as they come, our home hosted MP surgeries. Our front room was often piled high with election literature and envelopes. That is my dad in the photo.

    https://twitter.com/shaldonangler/status/1538787868662964224

    Thread/hymn of phatboi hate from a lifelong tory

    Not happy then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 98,988

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
  • 'What a pity we don't have Margaret Thatcher now!'

    This caller is furious about today's rail strikes and he takes aim at RMT boss Mick Lynch and a 'lacklustre and spineless' Transport Secretary Grant Shapps.

    What would Thatcher do?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 98,988
    I think the swing in Tiverton and Honiton will be bigger than in Wakefield but the Tories will still lose the latter but scrape home in the former
  • HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    HYUFD we've had this conversation already, it's not just Tube drivers striking, it's people getting paid £20K a year cleaning up sick.

    I am not sympathetic to Tube drivers (albeit they are I would argue paid what people should be paid, it's others that are paid too little).

    Do you honestly believe these are Labour's strikes? How did Labour cause them, in Government 13 years ago?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 70,237
    IshmaelZ said:

    I have been a Tory supporter since I was a child. My parents were as Tory as they come, our home hosted MP surgeries. Our front room was often piled high with election literature and envelopes. That is my dad in the photo.

    https://twitter.com/shaldonangler/status/1538787868662964224

    Thread/hymn of phatboi hate from a lifelong tory

    He arrived late, shambling through the room unclear what was happening

    I've heard a similar anecdote from the true blue faithful.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    HYUFD said:

    I think the swing in Tiverton and Honiton will be bigger than in Wakefield but the Tories will still lose the latter but scrape home in the former

    We still haven't sorted out the weasel wording of the Tory candidate's description of herself on her own website, have we? Obvious questions left very obviously unanswered.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 98,988
    JonWC said:

    Phone canvassed by the Tories last night. At the start the bloke was talking up their chances but by the end he seemed pretty depressed. Didn't really try to fight back against my claim that anyone who wanted the Tories to win the next election would not be voting Tory at the by-election...

    I phoned in the seat last night and it was evenly divided I would say. There is also zero evidence any alternative Tory leader polls any better than Johnson and indeed on preferred PM polls v Starmer most poll worse
  • 🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Daily Express editors?
    I'm genuinely concerned the public does.

    How on Earth can it be Labour's fault, they haven't been in Government for 13 years!

    In London Johnson lost more days than Khan has! Are the London strikes Johnson's strikes?
  • HYUFD said:

    JonWC said:

    Phone canvassed by the Tories last night. At the start the bloke was talking up their chances but by the end he seemed pretty depressed. Didn't really try to fight back against my claim that anyone who wanted the Tories to win the next election would not be voting Tory at the by-election...

    I phoned in the seat last night and it was evenly divided I would say. There is also zero evidence any alternative Tory leader polls any better than Johnson and indeed on preferred PM polls v Starmer most poll worse
    Asking yourself doesn't count as a poll
  • eekeek Posts: 19,266
    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Train drivers aren't striking - it's station and signal staff...

    But given I pointed this out 5 times yesterday I'm going to take your continual argument that black is white is intentional....
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,207
    FYI, another potential sign the Democrats are losing with the Hispanic vote - the New Mexico Governor polling looks tight:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2022/governor/nm/new_mexico_governor_ronchetti_vs_lujan_grisham-7646.html

    Even more remarkable given Lujan Graham is Hispanic and her opponent is not.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,207
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Train drivers aren't striking - it's station and signal staff...

    But given I pointed this out 5 times yesterday I'm going to take your continual argument that black is white is intentional....
    TBF, I’m not sure many get the distinction. I hadn’t realised it was only signals / station staff striking today and I’m guessing I pay more attention to the news than most people
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    edited June 21

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Daily Express editors?
    I'm genuinely concerned the public does.

    How on Earth can it be Labour's fault, they haven't been in Government for 13 years!

    In London Johnson lost more days than Khan has! Are the London strikes Johnson's strikes?
    When we had the train drivers striking in Scotland, it was wall to wall "Nicola's" fault from the Tories on here (counting BigG as one). Dispute now settled, at a fairly reasonable price in the circs.

    But do the PBTories blame HMG in London for making a much worse mess? No, they do not.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 39,028

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    So why are a dozen Labour MPs posting photos of themselves standing on RMT picket lines this morning, alongside messages of “solidarity” with the “workers”?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10936967/MPs-ignore-Keir-Starmers-desperate-order-NOT-join-picket-lines.html
    (I know it’s the Mail, but the story is an aggregation of Tweets from MPs themselves).
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,106
    HYUFD said:

    JonWC said:

    Phone canvassed by the Tories last night. At the start the bloke was talking up their chances but by the end he seemed pretty depressed. Didn't really try to fight back against my claim that anyone who wanted the Tories to win the next election would not be voting Tory at the by-election...

    I phoned in the seat last night and it was evenly divided I would say. There is also zero evidence any alternative Tory leader polls any better than Johnson and indeed on preferred PM polls v Starmer most poll worse
    So you would agree with the Lib Dems on this, would you, young HY?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 98,988
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Train drivers aren't striking - it's station and signal staff...

    But given I pointed this out 5 times yesterday I'm going to take your continual argument that black is white is intentional....
    They are striking, Aslef train drivers not members of the RMT who are striking today are on strike on Thursday
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 10,471
    edited June 21
    Not been here much lately so I might be stating what many have posted already but surely T&H is a straight referendum on Johnson.

    Labour's lead in the National polls is a modest 6% or so and if that were reflected in the by-election the Tories would hold comfortably. If they lose it can only be a verdict on the Leader.

    No?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,498
    More of this needs to happen. Sneering lickspittle minister sent onto multiple TV news shows to lie about the situation. Union boss just calls him a liar to his face and sets out why he is a liar. Minister doesn't have a response other than plough on.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,634
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Train drivers aren't striking - it's station and signal staff...

    But given I pointed this out 5 times yesterday I'm going to take your continual argument that black is white is intentional....
    For HYUFD the only truth is the party line for any given day.
    £59k drivers is today's.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Train drivers aren't striking - it's station and signal staff...

    But given I pointed this out 5 times yesterday I'm going to take your continual argument that black is white is intentional....
    That link HYUFD posted made exactly your point ...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Train drivers aren't striking - it's station and signal staff...

    But given I pointed this out 5 times yesterday I'm going to take your continual argument that black is white is intentional....
    They are striking, Aslef train drivers not members of the RMT who are striking today are on strike on Thursday
    Your own link says:

    "The trouble with using the figure for train drivers in a debate about the strikes is that the drivers are represented by their own union, Aslef, which says that 96% of train drivers in England, Scotland and Wales are its members, and most of the remaining 4% are not union members at all.

    Aslef will not be taking part in the national strike, although they have action of their own taking place at the same time, with drivers at Greater Anglia striking on 23 June. A strike on Hull Trains on 26 June has been cancelled. Aslef are also balloting for action on several other lines."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 98,988

    HYUFD said:

    JonWC said:

    Phone canvassed by the Tories last night. At the start the bloke was talking up their chances but by the end he seemed pretty depressed. Didn't really try to fight back against my claim that anyone who wanted the Tories to win the next election would not be voting Tory at the by-election...

    I phoned in the seat last night and it was evenly divided I would say. There is also zero evidence any alternative Tory leader polls any better than Johnson and indeed on preferred PM polls v Starmer most poll worse
    Asking yourself doesn't count as a poll
    Even the polls you have posted show Starmer has a bigger lead as preferred PM over Sunak and Truss now than over Johnson
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,634
    This is interesting - quantum randomness has real effects on DNA replication.
    https://physicsworld.com/a/quantum-effects-help-make-dna-unstable/
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,498
    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    1. Train and tube drivers are not on strike. You know this. Yet you lie anyway.#
    2. Similarly, the "Labour's strike" line. RMT are not affiliated to Labour. Their leader is not a member of Labour. Yet the *Tories* have forced this strike into effect by refusing to let Network Rail negotiate.

    Its the Shapps strike.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 22,298

    EXC: Lord Geidt believes allegations that Boris Johnson tried to appoint his future wife to a plum government job "could be ripe for investigation", Telegraph can reveal.

    PM’s former ethics adviser thinks the incident could be a matter for his successor.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/20/claims-boris-johnson-tried-hire-carrie-chief-staff-ripe-investigation/

    What successor? How can anyone with even the slightest shred of credibility or desire to maintain it take on such a role?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,498

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    HYUFD we've had this conversation already, it's not just Tube drivers striking, it's people getting paid £20K a year cleaning up sick.

    I am not sympathetic to Tube drivers (albeit they are I would argue paid what people should be paid, it's others that are paid too little).

    Do you honestly believe these are Labour's strikes? How did Labour cause them, in Government 13 years ago?
    HYUFD is lying. He strikes me as an intelligent man. So he knows the truth. So is deliberately choosing to lie about it. That's it.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,498
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carrie to FCO, and the cover up, ought to be terminal. We are just desensitized.

    I'm not even sure this is the worst scandal. That they conspired with the Murdoch press to censor it does make it look more serious than it looks. I wonder what they are hiding?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 1,082
    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1538989464143421440 This is the Conservative by-election candidate who is supposed to be good???
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,634
    .
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carrie to FCO, and the cover up, ought to be terminal. We are just desensitized.

    On that note, today's Mirror.
    EXCL: Boris Johnson suggested TWO plum jobs for wife Carrie - including one with the royals. But both ideas were vetoed by aides.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1539005339814830080
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    Cyclefree said:

    EXC: Lord Geidt believes allegations that Boris Johnson tried to appoint his future wife to a plum government job "could be ripe for investigation", Telegraph can reveal.

    PM’s former ethics adviser thinks the incident could be a matter for his successor.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/20/claims-boris-johnson-tried-hire-carrie-chief-staff-ripe-investigation/

    What successor? How can anyone with even the slightest shred of credibility or desire to maintain it take on such a role?
    BTW, what was Lord G's salary?
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 262

    Stop taking Devon for granted says the paper in the header, and much of the other T&H material also talks about Devon. Is there a regional issue here? Have Cornwall and Dorset mopped up all the development funds?

    It applies many places in the West Country. Terrible road network (A303) schools notoriously receive far below the national average per pupil. Broadband in the bottom few pct even compared to more rural areas. etc etc
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,591
    .........and reading further down........'Parody Boris'

    "Carrie was perfectly well qualified to get that £100k job I wanted her to have. I dug out the old advert to prove it:

    WANTED: Chief Of Staff – the ideal candidate will be a young blonde woman who is shagging the Foreign Secretary behind his wife’s back."

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,193
    Howay the railway workers
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 262
    edited June 21
    HYUFD said:

    JonWC said:

    Phone canvassed by the Tories last night. At the start the bloke was talking up their chances but by the end he seemed pretty depressed. Didn't really try to fight back against my claim that anyone who wanted the Tories to win the next election would not be voting Tory at the by-election...

    I phoned in the seat last night and it was evenly divided I would say. There is also zero evidence any alternative Tory leader polls any better than Johnson and indeed on preferred PM polls v Starmer most poll worse
    There is zero evidence because it isn't yet seen as a prospect and none of the alternatives is remotely as well known as Boris, and nor is is known what they stand for. Though of course nobody really knows what Boris stands for since he is a liar and a fantasist and what pass for his thoughts change with the weather.

    I did mention my displeasure at the slew of 3-day U-turns to the canvasser. Answer came there none.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,634
    MrEd said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Train drivers aren't striking - it's station and signal staff...

    But given I pointed this out 5 times yesterday I'm going to take your continual argument that black is white is intentional....
    TBF, I’m not sure many get the distinction. I hadn’t realised it was only signals / station staff striking today and I’m guessing I pay more attention to the news than most people
    HYUFD is not most folk, though.
    And this has been pointed out here pretty well every day in the last week. Every time we've had a discussion about the strike.

    Tory ministers also using the 59k line on the radio yesterday. Do they not know, either ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,652

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1538989464143421440 This is the Conservative by-election candidate who is supposed to be good???

    She'll fit in well in Johnson's team of fools. Probably in the Cabinet by the Autumn.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 345

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1538989464143421440 This is the Conservative by-election candidate who is supposed to be good???

    Looks like a car crash, and yet, even within that car crash, supplicating herself to the party line, speaking to Boris's integrity was a bridge too far.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    edited June 21
    JonWC said:

    Stop taking Devon for granted says the paper in the header, and much of the other T&H material also talks about Devon. Is there a regional issue here? Have Cornwall and Dorset mopped up all the development funds?

    It applies many places in the West Country. Terrible road network (A303) schools notoriously receive far below the national average per pupil. Broadband in the bottom few pct even compared to more rural areas. etc etc
    Did you notice the candidate's statement in her website about how she would be working to bring funding for the new Cullompton railway station?

    https://www.helen-hurford.org.uk/about-helen-hurford

    "My campaign will focus on delivering on people’s priorities for the area including improving transport links, supporting farmers and businesses. Working with Government to secure further investment in the area’s infrastructure including road upgrades for the North Devon Link Road and A303, a new train station for Cullompton and rollout of rural broadband."

    Implies a de novo project. Yet funding already secured. Decidedly ambiguous wording .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-59082444
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 1,082

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1538989464143421440 This is the Conservative by-election candidate who is supposed to be good???

    She'll fit in well in Johnson's team of fools. Probably in the Cabinet by the Autumn.
    The question is a bit Westminster-y complains candidate seeking to be elected to Westminster!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 70,237
    Many have been fooled into hating @RMTunion and railway-workers. Because they are organised, well led, determined, strong. One day all workers will be together like the railway-workers. And every union will be like the #RMT. And then the economy will belong to those who make it.

    Russia supporting the strikes.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 5,917
    Cyclefree said:

    EXC: Lord Geidt believes allegations that Boris Johnson tried to appoint his future wife to a plum government job "could be ripe for investigation", Telegraph can reveal.

    PM’s former ethics adviser thinks the incident could be a matter for his successor.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/20/claims-boris-johnson-tried-hire-carrie-chief-staff-ripe-investigation/

    What successor? How can anyone with even the slightest shred of credibility or desire to maintain it take on such a role?
    Well obviously because there are plenty of vacuous, self-absorbed types in the Cabinet who lack any credibilty but have plenty of desire to bask in the glory of the position of being PM.

    I do not know what the Latin for "I'm in charge" is, but Primus inter pares might as well be chucked out the window these days.

  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,157

    HYUFD said:

    JonWC said:

    Phone canvassed by the Tories last night. At the start the bloke was talking up their chances but by the end he seemed pretty depressed. Didn't really try to fight back against my claim that anyone who wanted the Tories to win the next election would not be voting Tory at the by-election...

    I phoned in the seat last night and it was evenly divided I would say. There is also zero evidence any alternative Tory leader polls any better than Johnson and indeed on preferred PM polls v Starmer most poll worse
    Asking yourself doesn't count as a poll
    If HYUFD was phoning round in the Devon constituency last night, those lucky people on the other end would be known to the to Conservative party as likely/possible tory voters. If 50% of people on that list and who answered the call said they were going to vote LibDem that looks really bad for the Conservatives.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,177
    Deleted
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503

    Cyclefree said:

    EXC: Lord Geidt believes allegations that Boris Johnson tried to appoint his future wife to a plum government job "could be ripe for investigation", Telegraph can reveal.

    PM’s former ethics adviser thinks the incident could be a matter for his successor.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/20/claims-boris-johnson-tried-hire-carrie-chief-staff-ripe-investigation/

    What successor? How can anyone with even the slightest shred of credibility or desire to maintain it take on such a role?
    Well obviously because there are plenty of vacuous, self-absorbed types in the Cabinet who lack any credibilty but have plenty of desire to bask in the glory of the position of being PM.

    I do not know what the Latin for "I'm in charge" is, but Primus inter pares might as well be chucked out the window these days.

    'Oderint dum metuant' would do at a pinch.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,115

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1538989464143421440 This is the Conservative by-election candidate who is supposed to be good???

    She'll fit in well in Johnson's team of fools. Probably in the Cabinet by the Autumn.
    From a professional viewpoint, I've seen worse and have probably had worse days myself. She turns the questions into comfortable territory (pledges - i.e. Brexit - and vaccinations). It's not realistic to expect her to attack Johnson. Lots of boos but it's a hustings and lots of the audience will be committed opponents.
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 262
    Unpopular said:

    https://twitter.com/supertanskiii/status/1538989464143421440 This is the Conservative by-election candidate who is supposed to be good???

    Looks like a car crash, and yet, even within that car crash, supplicating herself to the party line, speaking to Boris's integrity was a bridge too far.
    To be fair defending the indefensible is a very tall order (and she understandably cannot just blurt out the truth) but I guess she knew what she was getting into.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,475

    More of this needs to happen. Sneering lickspittle minister sent onto multiple TV news shows to lie about the situation. Union boss just calls him a liar to his face and sets out why he is a liar. Minister doesn't have a response other than plough on.
    Politics & politicians have always had an awkward relationship with the truth, but the outright lie now seems to be a thing, eg Nads saying 96% of those consulted favoured C4 privatisation when it was the opposite, Truss? Saying that NI was suffering economically compared to the rest of the UK when it’s the opposite, BJ on countless occasions. This is not a propitious development.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 8,377

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carrie to FCO, and the cover up, ought to be terminal. We are just desensitized.

    I'm not even sure this is the worst scandal. That they conspired with the Murdoch press to censor it does make it look more serious than it looks. I wonder what they are hiding?
    Blatant cronyism, corruption, a supplicant press, this really is Banana Republic stuff. Can the last one out please turn out the lights?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,965
    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Your narrative may be pure fantasy. It is nonetheless the fantasy that voters are believing as reality. You, Shapps and the Daily Mail have played the notion that £60,000 a year ASLEF train drivers are on strike very well.

    It is a lie, but in post-truth politics it works.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 70,237
    HYUFD said:

    JonWC said:

    Phone canvassed by the Tories last night. At the start the bloke was talking up their chances but by the end he seemed pretty depressed. Didn't really try to fight back against my claim that anyone who wanted the Tories to win the next election would not be voting Tory at the by-election...

    I phoned in the seat last night and it was evenly divided I would say. There is also zero evidence any alternative Tory leader polls any better than Johnson and indeed on preferred PM polls v Starmer most poll worse
    How are the people you call chosen ?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,177
    Carnyx said:

    JonWC said:

    Stop taking Devon for granted says the paper in the header, and much of the other T&H material also talks about Devon. Is there a regional issue here? Have Cornwall and Dorset mopped up all the development funds?

    It applies many places in the West Country. Terrible road network (A303) schools notoriously receive far below the national average per pupil. Broadband in the bottom few pct even compared to more rural areas. etc etc
    Did you notice the candidate's statement in her website about how she would be working to bring funding for the new Cullompton railway station?

    https://www.helen-hurford.org.uk/about-helen-hurford

    "My campaign will focus on delivering on people’s priorities for the area including improving transport links, supporting farmers and businesses. Working with Government to secure further investment in the area’s infrastructure including road upgrades for the North Devon Link Road and A303, a new train station for Cullompton and rollout of rural broadband."

    Implies a de novo project. Yet funding already secured. Decidedly ambiguous wording .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-59082444
    40 new hospitals, anyone?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,690
    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Your first sentence looks suspiciously like the Politics of Envy. I thought that was our gig?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,007
    edited June 21

    Howay the railway workers

    Railway workers earn far more than their productivity contribution or skill set rarity because of sustained industrial action over decades. Six figures for many of them, for quite a sociable number of weekly hours and generous benefits.

    They are now demanding pay rises way above and beyond what the rest of us have any right to expect from our own employers, and protection from redundancy no matter the changed economics of their industry.

    If they’re successful it won’t be “The Man” or the Tories that will be coughing up for it but every other working person in this country.

    Once upon a time we had a party with the core mission of standing up for the rights of workers against holders of capital. Where the f*** are they? Were Starmer a smarter politician, a more moral human being and a true defender of workers, he’d be proclaiming these strikers a national disgrace and leading lines of workers to break the pickets.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 55,112
    Funny how "inclusion" only works one way.....

    THE words ‘women’ and ‘girls’ have been erased from a Scottish Government-backed advice leaflet teaching youngsters about periods.

    The taxpayer-funded Young Scot information instead calls women "those of us that have both our ovaries and a womb" and "half the world’s population".

    But information for males about puberty and their voice breaking refers to them as ‘men’ and boys’.


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/9038985/scots-government-backed-puberty-leaflet-women-girls-erased/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 98,988

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Your first sentence looks suspiciously like the Politics of Envy. I thought that was our gig?
    I have no problem people earning lots of money just as long as they don't stop others working and earning their wage when they do!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,475
    Oakeshott going all 1926. If so much of the UK press wasn’t already supinely right wing, BJ might be forced to resuscitate the British Gazette.


  • eekeek Posts: 19,266
    Sandpit said:

    OT Cloudflare has been selectively down this morning, affecting pb and many other sites.

    Yep, a lot of websites down this morning. Cloudflare is one of those companies most people don’t know about unless they see an error message, but they hold the modern internet together.
    As someone pointed out elsewhere - there are a whole set of internet protocols designed to keep things going. However, Cloudflare does things that are otherwise very difficult and complex (denial of service attack prevention being 1) that large parts of the internet happily use Cloudflare and so introduce a single point of failure.

    For reference we picked up that Cloudflare was down earlier but were able to mitigate by changing our DNS to point at the servers directly. Now I need to work out how what the solution would be if we can't get at cloudflare's admin serve to change the DNS there (still a single point of failure but a smaller one to most companies).

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 98,988
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    JonWC said:

    Phone canvassed by the Tories last night. At the start the bloke was talking up their chances but by the end he seemed pretty depressed. Didn't really try to fight back against my claim that anyone who wanted the Tories to win the next election would not be voting Tory at the by-election...

    I phoned in the seat last night and it was evenly divided I would say. There is also zero evidence any alternative Tory leader polls any better than Johnson and indeed on preferred PM polls v Starmer most poll worse
    How are the people you call chosen ?
    Ask CCHQ? But they certainly weren't all Tories, even in 2019
  • PJHPJH Posts: 169
    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Wrong - train drivers aren't on strike!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 40,051
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carrie to FCO, and the cover up, ought to be terminal. We are just desensitized.

    It's basically the Arcuri story from his time as Mayor, carried across into government. The clown fancies or is already involved with some woman, and tries to punt a lot of public money in her direction.
  • Just a question, how are the Tories going to break the unions
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,690
    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    EXC: Lord Geidt believes allegations that Boris Johnson tried to appoint his future wife to a plum government job "could be ripe for investigation", Telegraph can reveal.

    PM’s former ethics adviser thinks the incident could be a matter for his successor.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/20/claims-boris-johnson-tried-hire-carrie-chief-staff-ripe-investigation/

    What successor? How can anyone with even the slightest shred of credibility or desire to maintain it take on such a role?
    BTW, what was Lord G's salary?
    Since when has Ali G been in the House of Lords?!?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 55,112
    “Other polls this week have shown that 55% of people are in favour of holding a referendum on our timescale.” - Lorna Slater either doesn’t understand the results of the Scottish Election Study, or is deliberately lying about it.

    https://twitter.com/staylorish/status/1539153892675620866
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,763
    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    🥀 Labour once again failed to condemn this week's strikes.

    ❌ Strikes that will hit workers, students, and our Armed Forces.

    #StopLaboursStrikes

    Sorry does anyone here believe this crap?

    Those who earn less than the £59k a year train and tube drivers do who are trying to get to work today but can't due to their strikes I am sure do

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61840077

    51% of voters think the Tories oppose today's strikes, only 8% think Labour do however

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1538910692601995264?s=20&t=Aj7x8_HdfjUKVOsQGMjIpg
    Wrong - train drivers aren't on strike!
    Are you sure?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,732
    edited June 21
    IshmaelZ said:

    I have been a Tory supporter since I was a child. My parents were as Tory as they come, our home hosted MP surgeries. Our front room was often piled high with election literature and envelopes. That is my dad in the photo.

    https://twitter.com/shaldonangler/status/1538787868662964224

    Thread/hymn of phatboi hate from a lifelong tory

    When you go onto twitter not signed in it often waits a few seconds then gives you the "do you want to sign in" option. Spookily in this case I read his entire thread and just as I finished reading it the "do you want to sign in" screen came up..........

    duh duh duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 262
    DavidL said:

    I remain stunned, as I was yesterday morning, that there was no proposal on the table by the management the day before a national strike that was going to cause serious economic damage to the nation. That struck me as a serious failure of duty. If that was brought about by government interference then Ministers deserve all the shellacking they are getting.

    Arguing about who did what and walked out of where yesterday is completely beside the point. The current legislation requires quite a complicated and time consuming process to be gone through by the union before the strike can be legally called. What has been happening in the last few weeks to reach a deal here? The answer seems to be nothing.

    Faced with no offer and 9% inflation a strike was inevitable. Labour MPs are right to support a workforce that is being treated so shabbily. But this is just the start. We are going to see this in almost every part of the public sector over the next few months as the government struggles with no money and staff struggle with the CoL crisis.

    The government seems unable to say that as a result of corona, and the actions taken to deal with it, we are all materially worse off. Who should be worst affected is partly a matter of political opinion and partly a function of the laws of economics.
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