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Next Thursday looks like being a “mini referendum” on the PM – politicalbetting.com

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  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    What a magnificent piece of twaddle. Children vary. Some are delighted to spend 4 years studying Akkadian philology with a year abroad learning Sumerian, others prefer hairdressing apprenticeships. Fortunately most of them listen politely to their parents and do exactly as they please. Leave them alone.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Also "wage restraint" is the biggest load of shit going. It's always the lower paid who have to show "wage restraint" whilst criticising high earners for not showing "earnings restraint" is seen as what, class warfare or the politics of envy?

    I wonder why.

    Spot on.

    Dickhead Tories = good
    Normal people = bad

    That’s the Yookay in a nutshell.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    edited June 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    I wonder how many of the numerous (final number tbc) Johnson sprogs will be applying for apprenticeships?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    4 years
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    Statistically unless you go to a Russell Group university you earn more over a lifetime doing a higher level apprenticeship than going to university

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/higher-apprenticeships-lead-greater-earnings-most-degrees

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    ‘Workers cannot expect pay rises to keep up with soaring cost of living, Treasury warns’

    In other words: brace yourselves for a real decline in living standards.

    Why the fuck shouldn’t we expect pay rises to keep up with inflation??
    As it drives inflation further and we are back to the 1970s
    It would suit you Tories to drag society back to the Middle Ages, with the peasants doing what they are telt by twats like you.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Times says when Phatboi was foreign sec he tried to get Carrie made chief of staff concealing fact of their relationship

    What else would you expect,?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    Good questions Rory, good questions.


    Is "Devon's Choice" an actual publication or just a Tory leaflet?

    If the latter, "Our view on the by-election Why we're backing Helen Hurford" is a bit disingenuous, to put it mildly.
    It is by far the best chance to scrape a Tory win in the by election though, with a good local candidate the focus
    Being converted to LD tactics I see. Those tactics you said you deplored a week or so ago. Even getting into the language - ' focus'
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,219

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ‘Workers cannot expect pay rises to keep up with soaring cost of living, Treasury warns’

    In other words: brace yourselves for a real decline in living standards.

    Why the fuck shouldn’t we expect pay rises to keep up with inflation??
    As it drives inflation further and we are back to the 1970s
    Then clearly we never fixed the problem.
    Thatcher and Major did through tight controls on spending and wage restraint. It can come back again as it already is starting to after the Ukraine war and excess demand post lockdown
    There will be no control on spending Though. The Tory client vote demands the money tap being left on.
    And that's the government's (and indeed the country's) problem.

    Inflation is nature's way of telling us that we can't have as many nice things as we would like. We should talk about who is protected, how to minimise and distribute the pain, but the bottom line is Fewer Nice Things overall.

    There are a few problems for the UK in 2022, though.

    For a start, very many people have zero capacity to absorb financial pain. Largely because so much income and wealth goes to homeowners.

    Next, we have a Prime Minister who is really bad at saying no to spending.

    Finally, we are a country (and the ruling generation is super bad at this) who think that we're entitled to Nice Things on demand at less than cost, because we're British or something.

    Prediction: this spells trouble for Britain and it's government, especially as 30 months before the General Election is not the time to embark on this sort of project. Thatcher, Blair, Cameron all got their painful bits out of the way early. Johnson's has barely begun.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Who mentioned non Europeans? English, Scottish and Irish troops were as much defenders of the Empire as anyone. I believe at least half of Wellington's British troops were Irish and Scottish.
    They weren't part of the Empire but the Union of the UK.

    Indeed most of the Empire in Africa and the Middle East for example had not yet been created and in India, Australia, Canada and New Zealand it was only barely emerging.
    You really are a fool of rank.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    edited June 2022
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    Was there an "it's up to them, they are free individuals with agency" option?
    Public sector Degree Apprenticeship pays £25k aged 18 (with a 26% pension contribution and the degree paid for by the State).

    Average starter graduate salary is £24,000 see https://www.savethestudent.org/student-jobs/whats-the-expected-salary-for-your-degree.html
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    I mentioned this at the start of the day - but in any case here is the original paper, which is on open access:

    https://www.tandfonline.com/journals/yjca20

    Interesting issues of how reliable apparen t eyewitness artists can be, and whether or not they really did gather and process the bones for fertiliser (does seem to have happened on some battlefields).

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited June 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    I wonder how many of the numerous (final number tbc) Johnson sprogs will be applying for apprenticeships?
    When one of the Royals opts for an NVQ in Health and Social Care. That will be the measure of an equal opportunity society.
  • vinovino Posts: 169
    Hi Cyclefree,
    I read your post with some interest. I know nothing about the ECHR but am against an unknown foreign Judge ruling against our Government policy before our own law courts have.
    My background is I'm sure very different to yours - the vast majority of people that I know who voted Leave were mainly former Labour voters - I voted for Nick Palmer in 1997, 2001 and 2005 - had left Broxtowe by 2010.
    However the attitude shown to Labour Leavers by Labour after 2016 was disgusting - being called a racist and a moron etc which still continues today.
    All three of my granddaughters voted Leave.
    The Tories are not particularly popular I think with Labour Leavers - see the popularity of The Ashfield Independents in my patch Hucknall but in a straight fight with Labour will still vote for Boris.
    The strange thing is I most probably agree 90% with CHB and his policies except of course on Brexit - do I regret voting Leave? No always thought it would take us a long time to get the benefits assuming there are any.
    Are there any Labour activists who voted Leave on PB?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    I wonder how many of the numerous (final number tbc) Johnson sprogs will be applying for apprenticeships?
    When one of the Royals opts for an NVQ in Health and Social Care. That will be the measure of an equal opportunity society.
    The Queen was a mechanic in the War, Princess Margaret's son was a carpenter
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    I wonder how many of the numerous (final number tbc) Johnson sprogs will be applying for apprenticeships?
    When one of the Royals opts for an NVQ in Health and Social Care. That will be the measure of an equal opportunity society.
    The Queen was a mechanic in the War, Princess Margaret's son was a carpenter
    Mr Armstrong-Jones would be mortified to read that! He's a furniture designer and joiner.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    Statistically unless you go to a Russell Group university you earn more over a lifetime doing a higher level apprenticeship than going to university

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/higher-apprenticeships-lead-greater-earnings-most-degrees

    I attended what are now Russell group universities, as did my wife and all my children. It always was and is still a terrible idea to do so for the money.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    What a magnificent piece of twaddle. Children vary. Some are delighted to spend 4 years studying Akkadian philology with a year abroad learning Sumerian, others prefer hairdressing apprenticeships. Fortunately most of them listen politely to their parents and do exactly as they please. Leave them alone.
    We don't need no thought control.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    edited June 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    I mentioned this at the start of the day - but in any case here is the original paper, which is on open access:

    https://www.tandfonline.com/journals/yjca20

    Interesting issues of how reliable apparen t eyewitness artists can be, and whether or not they really did gather and process the bones for fertiliser (does seem to have happened on some battlefields).

    I think the use of the teeth of the Waterloo dead for falsers is pretty much incontravertible? Personally I'd see that as lack of C19th squeamishness as much as lack of respect for the dead. Odd that that pragmatism existed alongside a horror of dead bodies used for dissection.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Democrats in trouble in the USA according to Smarkets:

    House control: 85% Republican
    Senate control: 77% Republican

    https://smarkets.com/listing/politics/us/2022-house-and-senate-elections
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    I wonder how many of the numerous (final number tbc) Johnson sprogs will be applying for apprenticeships?
    When one of the Royals opts for an NVQ in Health and Social Care. That will be the measure of an equal opportunity society.
    The Queen was a mechanic in the War, Princess Margaret's son was a carpenter
    Mr Armstrong-Jones would be mortified to read that! He's a furniture designer and joiner.
    Since when have you not needed an apprenticeship to become a joiner?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    What a magnificent piece of twaddle. Children vary. Some are delighted to spend 4 years studying Akkadian philology with a year abroad learning Sumerian, others prefer hairdressing apprenticeships. Fortunately most of them listen politely to their parents and do exactly as they please. Leave them alone.
    We don't need no thought control.

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    And Houston is in Renfrewshire.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Andy_JS said:

    Democrats in trouble in the USA according to Smarkets:

    House control: 85% Republican
    Senate control: 77% Republican

    https://smarkets.com/listing/politics/us/2022-house-and-senate-elections

    In the House maybe, in the Senate the Democrats still lead in key Senate seats up in November like Arizona and Pennsylvania

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_Senate_elections
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    I wonder how many of the numerous (final number tbc) Johnson sprogs will be applying for apprenticeships?
    When one of the Royals opts for an NVQ in Health and Social Care. That will be the measure of an equal opportunity society.
    The Queen was a mechanic in the War, Princess Margaret's son was a carpenter
    Mr Armstrong-Jones would be mortified to read that! He's a furniture designer and joiner.
    Since when have you not needed an apprenticeship to become a joiner?
    Eeh, it were hell, bread and dripping and belted if you answered back.

    'Followed by the pre-preparatory section of Ashdown House School, East Sussex, then on to Millbrook House School, near Abingdon, in Oxfordshire, and finally to Bedales School, where he developed a passion for arts and crafts. From 1980 to 1982 he studied at Parnham House in the small town of Beaminster in Dorset, for craftsmen in wood.'


  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    Statistically unless you go to a Russell Group university you earn more over a lifetime doing a higher level apprenticeship than going to university

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/higher-apprenticeships-lead-greater-earnings-most-degrees

    I can't believe the average years worked is the same in each case. Apprentices may start three years earlier but my impression is there are not many trades in their early or mid 60s. The work is also more strenuous and not resilient to physical challenges. Finally I would be stunned if pensions are comparable on average.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    Where's the English territorial office based?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Very interesting research report regarding long Covid.

    Persistent circulating SARS-CoV-2 spike is associated with post-acute COVID-19 sequelae
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.06.14.22276401v1.full.pdf

    Spike protein was detected up to twelve months after infection in individuals showing long Covid symptoms, but in none of the (previously infected, but fully recovered) control group.
    It’s a relatively small study, but the results look quite robust.

    Also interesting is that it seems the majority of those reporting long Covid symptoms are women (there are significant differences in immune response between the sexes).

    One for you

    “The chances that COVID leaked from China’s secretive virology lab in Wuhan are “99.9%,” but the World Health Organization (WHO) will probably never be able to prove it, Johns Hopkins Professor Marty Makary told “Morning Wire,” in an exclusive interview Friday.

    “The WHO probe is taking place even as China goes on the offensive, claiming the virus that has killed over 6 million people worldwide started in the U.S. But Makary, a best-selling author and surgeon, said it has always been obvious where it originated.
    “For a lot of scientists, it’s 99.9% likely,” Makary said. “And it’s the default hypothesis until proven otherwise.””


    https://twitter.com/mzee26/status/1538044024120037381?s=21&t=tuKMKmD-SGVzI4FwLTGdUw

    99.9%

    An interesting number to attach to something you also state can’t be proved.
    Doesn’t sound much of a scientist.
    He's a surgical oncologist who has been opining a lot on immunology and virology and often has opinions published that are at odds with leading immunologists and virologists.

    He informed us all that only 20% of Americans needed to be vaccinated for covid to vanish, and it would all be gone by April 2021. He's one of the go to scientists for the antivaxxers as well.
    It was, of course, a bunch of “leading virologists” who told us the Lab Leak Hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory”, and forbade us from even talking about it
    I hope you're not drifting back to posting links from far right crazies. You've done less of that in recent times, credit where credit's due.
    It's a good idea to follow Chris Rufo on twitter. That way you get a 3-month headstart on what ridiculois concocted American Right Wing culture war "issue" Leon will be spouting about.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    Where's the English territorial office based?
    England doesn't have its own Parliament unlike the other 3, so the UK PM is also effectively English FM
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    If you are not paying attention to Herschel Walker then do you even enjoy politics at all?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    English civil service takes colonial attitude towards the Irish, Scots and Welsh. I’m shocked I tells ya.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    I wonder how many of the numerous (final number tbc) Johnson sprogs will be applying for apprenticeships?
    When one of the Royals opts for an NVQ in Health and Social Care. That will be the measure of an equal opportunity society.
    The Queen was a mechanic in the War, Princess Margaret's son was a carpenter
    Mr Armstrong-Jones would be mortified to read that! He's a furniture designer and joiner.
    Since when have you not needed an apprenticeship to become a joiner?
    Eeh, it were hell, bread and dripping and belted if you answered back.

    'Followed by the pre-preparatory section of Ashdown House School, East Sussex, then on to Millbrook House School, near Abingdon, in Oxfordshire, and finally to Bedales School, where he developed a passion for arts and crafts. From 1980 to 1982 he studied at Parnham House in the small town of Beaminster in Dorset, for craftsmen in wood.'


    So he studied craftsmanship at Parnham House where he did his apprenticeship in furniture making
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    I wonder how many of the numerous (final number tbc) Johnson sprogs will be applying for apprenticeships?
    When one of the Royals opts for an NVQ in Health and Social Care. That will be the measure of an equal opportunity society.
    The Queen was a mechanic in the War, Princess Margaret's son was a carpenter
    Mr Armstrong-Jones would be mortified to read that! He's a furniture designer and joiner.
    Since when have you not needed an apprenticeship to become a joiner?
    Eeh, it were hell, bread and dripping and belted if you answered back.

    'Followed by the pre-preparatory section of Ashdown House School, East Sussex, then on to Millbrook House School, near Abingdon, in Oxfordshire, and finally to Bedales School, where he developed a passion for arts and crafts. From 1980 to 1982 he studied at Parnham House in the small town of Beaminster in Dorset, for craftsmen in wood.'


    How the landed classes treat their dimmer offspring.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    4 years
    I read for just three years at what is now a Russell Group University. Does that make me Mr Johnson's inferior?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    Where's the English territorial office based?
    England doesn't have its own Parliament unlike the other 3, so the UK PM is also effectively English FM
    Aside from the word effective being attached to BJ, he's effectively English FM and actually the minister for the Union? No conflict of interest there d'ye think?

    I love tone deaf Tory dimwits unwittingly revealing the actualité of the Union, long may it continue.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    Statistically unless you go to a Russell Group university you earn more over a lifetime doing a higher level apprenticeship than going to university

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/higher-apprenticeships-lead-greater-earnings-most-degrees

    I do wonder whether you will be fighting tooth and claw for your offspring to attend a Russell Group University, or alternatively will you be signing them up for an apprenticeship with Tata Steel?

    I suspect I know the answer.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    Where's the English territorial office based?
    In the same place as the English parliament I assume. England is the big, ugly home nation we don't speak of. We certainly don't need a department looking after its interests.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    Where's the English territorial office based?
    The District of Columbia.

    The Trident Sales Agreement = Bought and Sold for American Gold

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    Statistically unless you go to a Russell Group university you earn more over a lifetime doing a higher level apprenticeship than going to university

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/higher-apprenticeships-lead-greater-earnings-most-degrees

    I do wonder whether you will be fighting tooth and claw for your offspring to attend a Russell Group University, or alternatively will you be signing them up for an apprenticeship with Tata Steel?

    I suspect I know the answer.
    Depends how bright they are. If they are an A* or A grade student I would certainly suggest they aim for a Russell Group university and to become a doctor or lawyer etc.

    If not I would suggest they aim for an apprenticeship
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Alistair said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Very interesting research report regarding long Covid.

    Persistent circulating SARS-CoV-2 spike is associated with post-acute COVID-19 sequelae
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.06.14.22276401v1.full.pdf

    Spike protein was detected up to twelve months after infection in individuals showing long Covid symptoms, but in none of the (previously infected, but fully recovered) control group.
    It’s a relatively small study, but the results look quite robust.

    Also interesting is that it seems the majority of those reporting long Covid symptoms are women (there are significant differences in immune response between the sexes).

    One for you

    “The chances that COVID leaked from China’s secretive virology lab in Wuhan are “99.9%,” but the World Health Organization (WHO) will probably never be able to prove it, Johns Hopkins Professor Marty Makary told “Morning Wire,” in an exclusive interview Friday.

    “The WHO probe is taking place even as China goes on the offensive, claiming the virus that has killed over 6 million people worldwide started in the U.S. But Makary, a best-selling author and surgeon, said it has always been obvious where it originated.
    “For a lot of scientists, it’s 99.9% likely,” Makary said. “And it’s the default hypothesis until proven otherwise.””


    https://twitter.com/mzee26/status/1538044024120037381?s=21&t=tuKMKmD-SGVzI4FwLTGdUw

    99.9%

    An interesting number to attach to something you also state can’t be proved.
    Doesn’t sound much of a scientist.
    He's a surgical oncologist who has been opining a lot on immunology and virology and often has opinions published that are at odds with leading immunologists and virologists.

    He informed us all that only 20% of Americans needed to be vaccinated for covid to vanish, and it would all be gone by April 2021. He's one of the go to scientists for the antivaxxers as well.
    It was, of course, a bunch of “leading virologists” who told us the Lab Leak Hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory”, and forbade us from even talking about it
    I hope you're not drifting back to posting links from far right crazies. You've done less of that in recent times, credit where credit's due.
    It's a good idea to follow Chris Rufo on twitter. That way you get a 3-month headstart on what ridiculois concocted American Right Wing culture war "issue" Leon will be spouting about.
    Please tell me that “Chris Rufo” is not another one of Sean’s sockpuppets.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    Where's the English territorial office based?
    England doesn't have its own Parliament unlike the other 3, so the UK PM is also effectively English FM
    Aside from the word effective being attached to BJ, he's effectively English FM and actually the minister for the Union? No conflict of interest there d'ye think?

    I love tone deaf Tory dimwits unwittingly revealing the actualité of the Union, long may it continue.
    No as his UK PM role ie ultimate responsibility for income tax, defence, foreign policy etc is separate to his role as English FM and responsibility for English domestic policy and health and education and the police etc in England
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    Where's the English territorial office based?
    England doesn't have its own Parliament unlike the other 3, so the UK PM is also effectively English FM
    I look forward to Tories henceforth referring to The Oaf as being English FM.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    Where's the English territorial office based?
    England doesn't have its own Parliament unlike the other 3, so the UK PM is also effectively English FM
    I look forward to Tories henceforth referring to The Oaf as being English FM.
    I thought Douglas Ross had committed to Holyrood now?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    IshmaelZ said:

    Times says when Phatboi was foreign sec he tried to get Carrie made chief of staff concealing fact of their relationship

    What else would you expect,?

    How tacky. In a way, she's de facto Chief of Staff now isn't she?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2022
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is.

    It is not even Europe's largest city by population, Istanbul is
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    To be honest I couldn't make head nor tail of HYUFD's post. Was it coded?

    I just added a quirk of geographical place names into the mix for light relief.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2022
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Leon said:

    About to go for a hike here in the Armenian Caucasus

    Remarkably I have been told to carry a big stick and stamp it loudly on the ground, every few metres. to frighten off “all the snakes”

    Even more remarkably, I’ve been told to be really careful “in case there are bears”

    Bears?? In Armenia?? But apparently it is so. Lots of them. So I was wrong about “the lack of fauna”

    And yet it looks like this. Completely benign


    Meant to send you this link earlier in case you need help on your travels interpreting the local views:

    https://www.peakfinder.org

    The map viewing tool is very addictive…
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    I wouldn't dream of suggesting what education or career my children should pursue. And if I did I would be extremely disappointed if they took a blind bit of notice.
    It's their life not mine.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    Statistically unless you go to a Russell Group university you earn more over a lifetime doing a higher level apprenticeship than going to university

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/higher-apprenticeships-lead-greater-earnings-most-degrees

    I do wonder whether you will be fighting tooth and claw for your offspring to attend a Russell Group University, or alternatively will you be signing them up for an apprenticeship with Tata Steel?

    I suspect I know the answer.
    Depends how bright they are. If they are an A* or A grade student I would certainly suggest they aim for a Russell Group university and to become a doctor or lawyer etc.

    If not I would suggest they aim for an apprenticeship
    It's not about bright. Your offspring will attend the finest state Grammar Schools and benefit from the best cramming courses money can buy.

    Tell me I was wrong when the time comes, although you will likely require a ouija board to find me.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is.

    It is not even Europe's largest city by population, Istanbul is
    "Here was I, diggin' this hole, a hole in the ground, so deep and very round...".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
    How much of Istanbul is in Europe?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Geraint Thomas of Wales had a terrific day in the Swiss mountains today, and is looking FAV to win the Tour de Suisse in tomorrow’s final time trial.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    Where's the English territorial office based?
    England doesn't have its own Parliament unlike the other 3, so the UK PM is also effectively English FM
    I look forward to Tories henceforth referring to The Oaf as being English FM.
    I thought Douglas Ross had committed to Holyrood now?
    Oafs, Chancers, Bounders, Goofballs, Cads and Clowns a-plenty in the Brexit Revolutionary Party.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good questions Rory, good questions.


    Is "Devon's Choice" an actual publication or just a Tory leaflet?

    If the latter, "Our view on the by-election Why we're backing Helen Hurford" is a bit disingenuous, to put it mildly.
    It is by far the best chance to scrape a Tory win in the by election though, with a good local candidate the focus
    Being converted to LD tactics I see. Those tactics you said you deplored a week or so ago. Even getting into the language - ' focus'
    I continue to think that young HY will end up as a Lib Dem - though probably not until he lies on his death bed, many years from now. He will expire, uttering the famous last words, "Yes, you were right all along. Boris Johnson was definitely not worth it."
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IshmaelZ said:

    Times says when Phatboi was foreign sec he tried to get Carrie made chief of staff concealing fact of their relationship

    What else would you expect,?

    Unethical oaf does as unethical oafs do.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    ClippP said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good questions Rory, good questions.


    Is "Devon's Choice" an actual publication or just a Tory leaflet?

    If the latter, "Our view on the by-election Why we're backing Helen Hurford" is a bit disingenuous, to put it mildly.
    It is by far the best chance to scrape a Tory win in the by election though, with a good local candidate the focus
    Being converted to LD tactics I see. Those tactics you said you deplored a week or so ago. Even getting into the language - ' focus'
    I continue to think that young HY will end up as a Lib Dem - though probably not until he lies on his death bed, many years from now. He will expire, uttering the famous last words, "Yes, you were right all along. Boris Johnson was definitely not worth it."
    Or perhaps a la Bertrand Russell: 'Good Lord! The ontological argument works!'
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2022
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
    How much of Istanbul is in Europe?
    It is considered a European city even if it straddles Europe and Asia.

    It was of course originally Constantinople, at one time capital of the Roman Empire
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
    How much of Istanbul is in Europe?
    It is considered a European city even if it straddles Europe and Asia.

    It was of course originally Constantinople
    It was originally Byzantium, and renamed Constantinople when it was refounded by Constantine the Great. Not sure whether that was before or when he moved his capital to it (which was in 330).

    To answer my own question since you don't seem to want to, it's two thirds. So although it is the largest city to have some part of its mass in Europe, that part which is in Europe falls nearly half-way between Moscow and London in size.

    Although actually, you have at least conceded London is not the largest city and therefore your original comment was wrong in that regard.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    Where's the English territorial office based?
    England doesn't exist.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Applicant said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    Where's the English territorial office based?
    England doesn't exist.
    I hope it does, otherwise I need you to have Mercia pon me.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
    How much of Istanbul is in Europe?
    It is considered a European city even if it straddles Europe and Asia.

    It was of course originally Constantinople, at one time capital of the Roman Empire
    That would’ve been news to the citizens of Lygos, Byzantium, Augusta Antonina and Alma Roma.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is.

    It is not even Europe's largest city by population, Istanbul is
    "Here was I, diggin' this hole, a hole in the ground, so deep and very round...".
    Brilliant. I think this should be the standard reply when hyufd does his jet powered goal posts.

    @hyufd why oh why are you so incapable of just saying I didn't mean
    the largest? Your argument was still valid. Why is that so hard for you to do? I do it all the time.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Interview with sweaty Geraint Thomas as he gasps for breath: “I blew my tits a bit.” 😄
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Relatedly, I just read the interesting lunch-with-the-FT interview with Hillary Clinton

    She says, and I paraphrase: “All that matters is beating Trump, the election is the only issue, he has to lose” - and one can empathise with her urgency

    But she comes close to saying ANYTHING is justified as long as it helps to defeat Trump. Anything? Like, lying about the probable origins of a global catastrophe for a year? Or getting the FBI to smear Trump? Or worse?

    This is the TGV to Civil War. Once you believe your opponent is so evil you can justify doing anything to stop him, then he and his supporters will feel the same about stopping you. That cannot end well

    Trump and his supporters are responsible for Trump, not Clinton, not scientists, the left or anyone else. He crossed the line. He undermined democracy. His supporters attacked the Capitol.

    It is not unreasonable to want to defeat him.
    it is extremely desirable to beat Trump. He is a menace to the world, especially the West

    The trickier question is: how much his horribleness justifies illegal or immoral behaviour in his opponents
    You should be more worried about what he and his supporters will do.
    I am worried about both. As Hillary herself says in that FT interview, both sides have gone mad at the extremes: the Woke Left and the Trumpite right. They are only 10-20% of each side but they are highly vocal, super motivated and they are driving America to civil conflict
    Worth repeating the point that people on here are always more sympathetic to the left. They don't see the dangers of the "woke" left. The best stance is to be critical of both extremes. You may still have to vote for one of the two options, but this is the type of "least worst" decision forced on you by democracy. In the UK, it is possible to detest Boris Johnson but still vote Conservative, because you see a greater danger in the 'progressive' alternatives.
    Some award due for getting so much wrong in one short post, Congratulations. Most importantly, if you detest someone and see dangers in voting for them, Don’t vote for them.
    QED. You don’t see the dangers of the Woke Left because you don’t even recognise there is a problem

    This is multiplied a hundred times over in the American Left, which means they will continue goading and provoking the Right, and which means the Right will return fire, and then some

    Which leads to the polling we saw yesterday, with Trump - Trump! - leading Biden as the preferred president

    Both sides have to lay down their arms; neither will, because both firmly believe their cause is righteous
    Extreme woke as perversion of some sentiment long forgotten that as an ideology is close to McCarthyism....
    A large part of that, though not all, is a confection of right wing media.
    And there are as a result, of course, two sides to that coin.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-dei-crt-schools-parents
    Perhaps @Leon's right after all - there is such a thing as a Cancel Culture, judging by that Propublica article.
    Cancel culture, very definitely, exists. And it is vile



    “Clanchy isn’t sure if she has actually been cancelled. “My books have been depublished, which is very unusual. I have lost my living. Everyone I know has suffered, all of my personal relationships have suffered. So I’ve suffered and I’m shamed and I’m unhappy a lot of the time – I don’t know if that’s cancelled enough? I’m not dead.” She has been called a white supremacist, accused of “Nazi-adjacent thinking”, and says that some “quite respectable people” mocked her bereavement online.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jun/18/the-book-that-tore-publishing-apart-harm-has-been-done-and-now-everyones-afraid?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300
    Twitter
    Tom Gordon@HTScotPol·34m
    Calls for SNP's Ian Blackford to step down over "absolute, full support" of shamed Patrick Grady

    https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1538158214998634496
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Applicant said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    Where's the English territorial office based?
    England doesn't exist.
    Oh, sorry, we forgot.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Just read that story about Ian Blackford.

    😳
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    Interview with sweaty Geraint Thomas as he gasps for breath: “I blew my tits a bit.” 😄

    That conjures quite a mental image. Of contortionism...
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wow! This is horrific. How the British Empire treated the men who died in support of the regime:

    The long-held explanation is grisly: according to reports made soon after the conflict, the bones were collected, pulverised and turned into fertiliser for agricultural use.

    “It is certainly a singular fact that Great Britain should have sent out multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import the bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!” the London Observer reported in November 1822.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/18/mystery-of-waterloos-dead-soldiers-to-be-re-examined-by-academics

    What a ludicrous take, there were more Belgians and Dutch in Wellington's forces at Waterloo v Napoleon than non Europeans from the emerging British Empire.

    Not to mention the Prussians joined the British too later in the battle
    Huh? Who said anything about “non-Europeans”? You have a very odd interpretation of the term British Empire excluding the Irish, Welsh, Scots, Manx or English.
    None of them were colonies of the Empire no, they were all people of the United Kingdom in 1815
    People of the territories according to Thatcher mini me.




    As opposed to just being what they're called.

    https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/08/14/the-role-of-a-territorial-office/
    Where's the English territorial office based?
    England doesn't exist.
    I hope it does, otherwise I need you to have Mercia pon me.
    Ah dinnae Kent whit he’s on aboot.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
    How much of Istanbul is in Europe?
    It is considered a European city even if it straddles Europe and Asia.

    It was of course originally Constantinople, at one time capital of the Roman Empire
    That would’ve been news to the citizens of Lygos, Byzantium, Augusta Antonina and Alma Roma.
    Constantine 1st still declared it to be the new capital of the Roman empire
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Tom Gordon@HTScotPol·34m
    Calls for SNP's Ian Blackford to step down over "absolute, full support" of shamed Patrick Grady

    https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1538158214998634496

    How does it feel to be back in the teens after the demise of the Ruth Davidson Party?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
    How much of Istanbul is in Europe?
    It is considered a European city even if it straddles Europe and Asia.

    It was of course originally Constantinople
    It was originally Byzantium, and renamed Constantinople when it was refounded by Constantine the Great. Not sure whether that was before or when he moved his capital to it (which was in 330).

    To answer my own question since you don't seem to want to, it's two thirds. So although it is the largest city to have some part of its mass in Europe, that part which is in Europe falls nearly half-way between Moscow and London in size.

    Although actually, you have at least conceded London is not the largest city and therefore your original comment was wrong in that regard.
    On that argument then you could exclude Russian and Turkish cities as both are part in Europe and part in Asia.

    In which case just looking at countries solely in Europe, London is the largest city in Europe as well as the wealthiest by gdp
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,455
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
    How much of Istanbul is in Europe?
    It is considered a European city even if it straddles Europe and Asia.

    It was of course originally Constantinople
    It was originally Byzantium, and renamed Constantinople when it was refounded by Constantine the Great. Not sure whether that was before or when he moved his capital to it (which was in 330).

    To answer my own question since you don't seem to want to, it's two thirds. So although it is the largest city to have some part of its mass in Europe, that part which is in Europe falls nearly half-way between Moscow and London in size.

    Although actually, you have at least conceded London is not the largest city and therefore your original comment was wrong in that regard.
    On that argument then you could exclude Russian and Turkish cities as both are part in Europe and part in Asia.

    In which case just looking at countries solely in Europe, London is the largest city in Europe as well as the wealthiest by gdp
    The state of this
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    Statistically unless you go to a Russell Group university you earn more over a lifetime doing a higher level apprenticeship than going to university

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/higher-apprenticeships-lead-greater-earnings-most-degrees

    I do wonder whether you will be fighting tooth and claw for your offspring to attend a Russell Group University, or alternatively will you be signing them up for an apprenticeship with Tata Steel?

    I suspect I know the answer.
    Depends how bright they are. If they are an A* or A grade student I would certainly suggest they aim for a Russell Group university and to become a doctor or lawyer etc.

    If not I would suggest they aim for an apprenticeship
    Really. You would recommend all A/A* student to become lawyers or doctors. No other profession? Never crossed my mind, never crossed my son's mind, never crossed the mind of most A/A* students. Do we have too many mathematicians, physicists, chemists, economists, engineers, etc, etc.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
    How much of Istanbul is in Europe?
    It is considered a European city even if it straddles Europe and Asia.

    It was of course originally Constantinople, at one time capital of the Roman Empire
    That would’ve been news to the citizens of Lygos, Byzantium, Augusta Antonina and Alma Roma.
    Constantine 1st still declared it to be the new capital of the Roman empire
    Not even willing to concede a minor, forgivable error. The king of pig-headedness, on an obscure blog of ace pig-heads.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    So it turns out “a modest hike” in the Armenian Caucasus is just a tiny bit more challenging than the equivalent walk in the Malverns. Even though they look strikingly similar in places
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
    How much of Istanbul is in Europe?
    It is considered a European city even if it straddles Europe and Asia.

    It was of course originally Constantinople
    It was originally Byzantium, and renamed Constantinople when it was refounded by Constantine the Great. Not sure whether that was before or when he moved his capital to it (which was in 330).

    To answer my own question since you don't seem to want to, it's two thirds. So although it is the largest city to have some part of its mass in Europe, that part which is in Europe falls nearly half-way between Moscow and London in size.

    Although actually, you have at least conceded London is not the largest city and therefore your original comment was wrong in that regard.
    On that argument then you could exclude Russian and Turkish cities as both are part in Europe and part in Asia.

    In which case just looking at countries solely in Europe, London is the largest city in Europe as well as the wealthiest by gdp
    No Hyufd, Istanbul is a special case as one-third of the city itself is on the east side of the Bosporus and the rest is on the west side. Moscow is entirely to the west of the Urals.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    Just read that story about Ian Blackford.

    😳

    If he's forced to resign, that's a terrible blow to hopes for the future of the Union. The SNP are already pretty well all dominant in Scottish politics. Imagine if they had somebody in a position of leadership who didn't look like a sleazy nomark?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    4 years
    I read for just three years at what is now a Russell Group University. Does that make me Mr Johnson's inferior?
    3 for me, Imperial, where I was a disgrace. Uni for me was just about leaving home and going down to London. Skipped all lectures and tutorials, did little but mess around, didn't even try to get a proper job afterwards. My immaturity and recklessness astounds me when I contemplate it now (which I try not to).
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    4 years
    I read for just three years at what is now a Russell Group University. Does that make me Mr Johnson's inferior?
    Well he is obv one third again more educated than you
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    Statistically unless you go to a Russell Group university you earn more over a lifetime doing a higher level apprenticeship than going to university

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/higher-apprenticeships-lead-greater-earnings-most-degrees

    I do wonder whether you will be fighting tooth and claw for your offspring to attend a Russell Group University, or alternatively will you be signing them up for an apprenticeship with Tata Steel?

    I suspect I know the answer.
    Depends how bright they are. If they are an A* or A grade student I would certainly suggest they aim for a Russell Group university and to become a doctor or lawyer etc.

    If not I would suggest they aim for an apprenticeship
    Really. You would recommend all A/A* student to become lawyers or doctors. No other profession? Never crossed my mind, never crossed my son's mind, never crossed the mind of most A/A* students. Do we have too many mathematicians, physicists, chemists, economists, engineers, etc, etc.
    Doctor or lawyer etc

    FUDHY illustrates the Tory mindset that is crushing England: Fuck business, Fuck science, Fuck innovation, Fuck productivity, Fuck workers, Fuck enterprise.

    With the Tories screwing ethics and propriety in public life and the economy it’ll soon be only lawyers and doctors in gainful employment.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
    How much of Istanbul is in Europe?
    It is considered a European city even if it straddles Europe and Asia.

    It was of course originally Constantinople, at one time capital of the Roman Empire
    That would’ve been news to the citizens of Lygos, Byzantium, Augusta Antonina and Alma Roma.
    Constantine 1st still declared it to be the new capital of the Roman empire
    Not even willing to concede a minor, forgivable error. The king of pig-headedness, on an obscure blog of ace pig-heads.
    But he’s absolutely right

    Istanbul is regarded as a European city, not least because it was originally a European village - Byzantion - on the European side of the waters and all its key Roman buildings were in Europe and even now its greatest monuments and its business heart and its Ottoman districts and its emotional core, is all in Europe, from Hagia Sofia to the Blue Mosque to the Topkapi Palace and its preserved footprints of the Prophet

    So, yes, Europe
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    An expensive higher education should be the exclusive right of the upper classes (whoever they may be). Isn't that right HYUFD?

    My view is, if three years reading for a non- vocational university degree is good enough for Boris Johnson, it is not too good for my children.
    Statistically unless you go to a Russell Group university you earn more over a lifetime doing a higher level apprenticeship than going to university

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/higher-apprenticeships-lead-greater-earnings-most-degrees

    I do wonder whether you will be fighting tooth and claw for your offspring to attend a Russell Group University, or alternatively will you be signing them up for an apprenticeship with Tata Steel?

    I suspect I know the answer.
    Depends how bright they are. If they are an A* or A grade student I would certainly suggest they aim for a Russell Group university and to become a doctor or lawyer etc.

    If not I would suggest they aim for an apprenticeship
    Really. You would recommend all A/A* student to become lawyers or doctors. No other profession? Never crossed my mind, never crossed my son's mind, never crossed the mind of most A/A* students. Do we have too many mathematicians, physicists, chemists, economists, engineers, etc, etc.
    I said lawyers, doctors etc. Not lawyers and doctors alone.

    So that does not exclude the other professions you named which would be suitable for A*, A students
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
    How much of Istanbul is in Europe?
    It is considered a European city even if it straddles Europe and Asia.

    It was of course originally Constantinople, at one time capital of the Roman Empire
    That would’ve been news to the citizens of Lygos, Byzantium, Augusta Antonina and Alma Roma.
    Constantine 1st still declared it to be the new capital of the Roman empire
    Not even willing to concede a minor, forgivable error. The king of pig-headedness, on an obscure blog of ace pig-heads.
    But he’s absolutely right

    Istanbul is regarded as a European city, not least because it was originally a European village - Byzantion - on the European side of the waters and all its key Roman buildings were in Europe and even now its greatest monuments and its business heart and its Ottoman districts and its emotional core, is all in Europe, from Hagia Sofia to the Blue Mosque to the Topkapi Palace and its preserved footprints of the Prophet

    So, yes, Europe
    Except what he said was that London 'is Europe's largest and wealthiest city.'

    The second part is right. The first part was not. In fact, whether you include all of Istanbul or not, it's only the third largest city in Europe.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    What a magnificent piece of twaddle. Children vary. Some are delighted to spend 4 years studying Akkadian philology with a year abroad learning Sumerian, others prefer hairdressing apprenticeships. Fortunately most of them listen politely to their parents and do exactly as they please. Leave them alone.
    We don't need no thought control.

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    And Houston is in Renfrewshire.
    Denver is in Norfolk.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
    How much of Istanbul is in Europe?
    It is considered a European city even if it straddles Europe and Asia.

    It was of course originally Constantinople, at one time capital of the Roman Empire
    That would’ve been news to the citizens of Lygos, Byzantium, Augusta Antonina and Alma Roma.
    Constantine 1st still declared it to be the new capital of the Roman empire
    Not even willing to concede a minor, forgivable error. The king of pig-headedness, on an obscure blog of ace pig-heads.
    But he’s absolutely right

    Istanbul is regarded as a European city, not least because it was originally a European village - Byzantion - on the European side of the waters and all its key Roman buildings were in Europe and even now its greatest monuments and its business heart and its Ottoman districts and its emotional core, is all in Europe, from Hagia Sofia to the Blue Mosque to the Topkapi Palace and its preserved footprints of the Prophet

    So, yes, Europe
    Beautifully obscuring the fact that I wasn’t responding to that bit, but rather to his statement “It was of course originally Constantinople”.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Relatedly, I just read the interesting lunch-with-the-FT interview with Hillary Clinton

    She says, and I paraphrase: “All that matters is beating Trump, the election is the only issue, he has to lose” - and one can empathise with her urgency

    But she comes close to saying ANYTHING is justified as long as it helps to defeat Trump. Anything? Like, lying about the probable origins of a global catastrophe for a year? Or getting the FBI to smear Trump? Or worse?

    This is the TGV to Civil War. Once you believe your opponent is so evil you can justify doing anything to stop him, then he and his supporters will feel the same about stopping you. That cannot end well

    Trump and his supporters are responsible for Trump, not Clinton, not scientists, the left or anyone else. He crossed the line. He undermined democracy. His supporters attacked the Capitol.

    It is not unreasonable to want to defeat him.
    it is extremely desirable to beat Trump. He is a menace to the world, especially the West

    The trickier question is: how much his horribleness justifies illegal or immoral behaviour in his opponents
    You should be more worried about what he and his supporters will do.
    I am worried about both. As Hillary herself says in that FT interview, both sides have gone mad at the extremes: the Woke Left and the Trumpite right. They are only 10-20% of each side but they are highly vocal, super motivated and they are driving America to civil conflict
    Worth repeating the point that people on here are always more sympathetic to the left. They don't see the dangers of the "woke" left. The best stance is to be critical of both extremes. You may still have to vote for one of the two options, but this is the type of "least worst" decision forced on you by democracy. In the UK, it is possible to detest Boris Johnson but still vote Conservative, because you see a greater danger in the 'progressive' alternatives.
    Some award due for getting so much wrong in one short post, Congratulations. Most importantly, if you detest someone and see dangers in voting for them, Don’t vote for them.
    QED. You don’t see the dangers of the Woke Left because you don’t even recognise there is a problem

    This is multiplied a hundred times over in the American Left, which means they will continue goading and provoking the Right, and which means the Right will return fire, and then some

    Which leads to the polling we saw yesterday, with Trump - Trump! - leading Biden as the preferred president

    Both sides have to lay down their arms; neither will, because both firmly believe their cause is righteous
    Extreme woke as perversion of some sentiment long forgotten that as an ideology is close to McCarthyism....
    A large part of that, though not all, is a confection of right wing media.
    And there are as a result, of course, two sides to that coin.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-dei-crt-schools-parents
    Perhaps @Leon's right after all - there is such a thing as a Cancel Culture, judging by that Propublica article.
    Cancel culture, very definitely, exists. And it is vile



    “Clanchy isn’t sure if she has actually been cancelled. “My books have been depublished, which is very unusual. I have lost my living. Everyone I know has suffered, all of my personal relationships have suffered. So I’ve suffered and I’m shamed and I’m unhappy a lot of the time – I don’t know if that’s cancelled enough? I’m not dead.” She has been called a white supremacist, accused of “Nazi-adjacent thinking”, and says that some “quite respectable people” mocked her bereavement online.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jun/18/the-book-that-tore-publishing-apart-harm-has-been-done-and-now-everyones-afraid?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    Hatred exists for sure, but not just on the left. Did you read the Propublica article?

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-dei-crt-schools-parents
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited June 2022
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    So you're saying Hyufd's wrong and Scotland would keep Moscow, Europe's largest city, in the event of independence?
    Moscow is not Europe's wealthiest city by gdp, London is
    But it is the largest.
    It isn't by population or area, Istanbul is
    How much of Istanbul is in Europe?
    It is considered a European city even if it straddles Europe and Asia.

    It was of course originally Constantinople
    It was originally Byzantium, and renamed Constantinople when it was refounded by Constantine the Great. Not sure whether that was before or when he moved his capital to it (which was in 330).

    To answer my own question since you don't seem to want to, it's two thirds. So although it is the largest city to have some part of its mass in Europe, that part which is in Europe falls nearly half-way between Moscow and London in size.

    Although actually, you have at least conceded London is not the largest city and therefore your original comment was wrong in that regard.
    On that argument then you could exclude Russian and Turkish cities as both are part in Europe and part in Asia.

    In which case just looking at countries solely in Europe, London is the largest city in Europe as well as the wealthiest by gdp
    No Hyufd, Istanbul is a special case as one-third of the city itself is on the east side of the Bosporus and the rest is on the west side. Moscow is entirely to the west of the Urals.
    But Europe as a continent makes no sense when you reach its eastern edge. Which just happens to be where I am right now, Sipping could red Areni wine and staring at the Armenian Caucasus

    Geographers might argue I am still in Europe, but why? What makes the Caucasus special? Or indeed the Urals? Why not make the desert the barrier, or the steppes, why mountains?

    Europe is a fiction as a continent, but it IS a civilisation and a culture. But even then it blurs. Some days I think Armenia is Asian, other days it feels very European. Likewise the people

    Moscow feels more Asian to me than Istanbul. Especially at the moment
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    ISW
    @TheStudyofWar
    ·
    1h
    - Unconfirmed Ukrainian sources report that the Kremlin fired the Commander of the Russian Airborne Forces, Colonel-General Andrey Serdyukov, due to mass casualties among Russian paratroopers.

    https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1538150378197372935
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited June 2022

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    What a magnificent piece of twaddle. Children vary. Some are delighted to spend 4 years studying Akkadian philology with a year abroad learning Sumerian, others prefer hairdressing apprenticeships. Fortunately most of them listen politely to their parents and do exactly as they please. Leave them alone.
    We don't need no thought control.

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    And Houston is in Renfrewshire.
    Denver is in Norfolk.
    Norfolk enchants pal.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov. Would you prefer your children to study for a degree or do an apprenticeship?

    Degree 35%
    Apprenticeship 44%

    Remainers Degree 50%

    Leavers Apprenticeship 56%


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1538115066200981505?s=20&t=VGA1FQQWBV_3HS6SnWXgbg

    What a magnificent piece of twaddle. Children vary. Some are delighted to spend 4 years studying Akkadian philology with a year abroad learning Sumerian, others prefer hairdressing apprenticeships. Fortunately most of them listen politely to their parents and do exactly as they please. Leave them alone.
    We don't need no thought control.

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lol, Yoons so desperate that they're reduced to bigging up Scotland. I wonder who is the 'we' that Murdo keeps referring to who will be losing all that good shit?

    “We lose … roughly 1/3 of the land mass of Great Britain, probably about half of our territorial waters, we lose the magnificent resource that is Scottish fishing waters, we lose the opportunities from North sea oil and gas (still there despite Nicola Sturgeon’s best efforts), we lose the potential for renewable energy from Scotland’s coasts in the North Sea and the Atlantic, we lose access to barrier-free trade for scotch whisky and scotch salmon, all these fantastic exports, and the opportunity to study at some of the world’s greatest universities … and the joy of having Scots as part of the great British nation … why would you want to throw all that away?”



    https://twitter.com/eRestUK/status/1538045258348519424?s=20&t=kkH5IARydJ_XkEEbTlYl2Q

    And Scots lose the biggest and wealthiest city in Europe, the largest financial centre in Europe, the 2 best universities in Europe and membership of the G7, G20 and permanent membership of the UN Security Council
    Moscow's not in the UK.

    As for the unis, I reckon Hull would be interested in an offer from Scotland.
    It is. It's just outside Kilmarnock. I have a picture of me aged 7 standing next to the road sign.
    And Houston is in Renfrewshire.
    Denver is in Norfolk.
    And Hollywood is in North Ayrshire - they should sue that upstart Californian suburb!
This discussion has been closed.