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Sunak could be on the way back – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,961
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    Interesting study. I am boringly in the majority on this. Interesting too that sport was seen as a legitimate exception even by people favouring inclusion by other means.

    This was quite telling too:

    "the report emphasised that people did not primarily see these issues “through a narrow lens of gender identity”, with discussion broadening out to the fact most people do not like communal changing rooms per se, while the minority who were less comfortable with unisex bathrooms were more worried that men tend to be less hygienic than women in communal toilets, rather than about safety."
    Not dissimilar results to the one conducted in Scotland by the BBC recently. Call me a raddled old cynic but I sense that the commentariat are massively disappointed when people respond mildly to these questions.

    On a different tack, I know one club owner who would dispute the men/women hygiene in the lavvy thing.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited June 2022


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    Agree with all that RP.

    On the economy, it does beg the question, who would want to take over right now? A Labour minority government would face a huge challenge and it could only deflect criticism to a limited degree by "we're clearing up the Tory's mess".

    Most likely the Tories soldier on, waiting like Mr Micawber for 'something to turn up'.

    By 2024/25 they get absolutely annihilated in the GE. That could potentially see an epochal shift in UK politics.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    Positive covid test this morning - it's finally caught up with me. Feel like sh*t too.

    Hey ho.

    Rest and drink lots of water. Battling through it is really not the best plan.
    Thanks David, I'll do that. Helped by the fact that Mrs P. has a bit of sympathy now that she's seen the test result she knows it's not just man flu.

    She's off to buy me a tin of Heinz Tomato Soup - nowadays a terrible ultra-processed food, no doubt, but my childhood comfort blanket for every kind of minor sickness :-)
    Hope you get better soon. I had it last week. Two days of feeling a bit crap then fine so not to worry too much.

    It didn't seem to matter if I rested or not. It's just a case of the virus working through your body. Was the faintest of faint lines for a while (days 5-7) but cleared up completely day 8.
    Interesting, thanks.

    I had a negative test on Tuesday, even though I felt crap. The test I did this morning though left a very deep bold T line - no doubts at all. And no surprise tbh.

    I don't need to work so I am just putting my feet up and enjoying the weather. Could be a lot worse.
    Rest and look after yourself

    All the best
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    Interesting study. I am boringly in the majority on this. Interesting too that sport was seen as a legitimate exception even by people favouring inclusion by other means.

    This was quite telling too:

    "the report emphasised that people did not primarily see these issues “through a narrow lens of gender identity”, with discussion broadening out to the fact most people do not like communal changing rooms per se, while the minority who were less comfortable with unisex bathrooms were more worried that men tend to be less hygienic than women in communal toilets, rather than about safety."
    And more generally, would that we had a government more interested in practical solutions than cultural conflict.
    Ditto the radical Trans activists.

    I think like many other issues, such as race and female equality, or gay marriage cultural change and acceptance takes time.

    My problem with a lot of Trans politics is that it is heavily influenced by rather outdated gender stereotypes of what makes a man a man or a woman a woman.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    Interesting study. I am boringly in the majority on this. Interesting too that sport was seen as a legitimate exception even by people favouring inclusion by other means.

    This was quite telling too:

    "the report emphasised that people did not primarily see these issues “through a narrow lens of gender identity”, with discussion broadening out to the fact most people do not like communal changing rooms per se, while the minority who were less comfortable with unisex bathrooms were more worried that men tend to be less hygienic than women in communal toilets, rather than about safety."
    At my dot com boom job, we had shared toilets and no-one complained about safety but there were occasionally heartfelt pleas for men to stop pissing on the floor.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    The Cons fighting a 'culture war' election - aka pander to prejudice and softhead nostalgia in lieu of workable policies to improve people's lives - and winning would be so so depressing. Even just contemplating it is a serious downer.

    So let's not! Let's go sunny side up to match the weather. If they do that and LOSE - esp if it's a thrashing - that will be a terrific outcome. That will be this country saying to them, "No, Tories, no. You have us all wrong. We're better than you think. So piss off now and don't even think about pulling this shit again."
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
  • Is BJO going back to his hole now?

    Clearly the polls are unchanged
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,961
    Carnyx said:

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating in Scotland (15 June):

    Approve: 26%
    Disapprove: 46%
    Net: -20%

    What’s the rating by party?

    My guess is that SNP supporters as a group have a high disapproval rating for all English politicians regardless of party.

    If that is the case then It says something about the SNP supporters rather than the politicians
    My guess is 'Scottish' Douglas Ross would rank lower than Rishi with supporters of all parties not SCon. Maybe SCons too..
    I like the way PBTories like to claim that being anti-Tory in Scotland, or more generally to be against having your poility and its policies overridden by a different polity, must be anti-English racism when it would be just the same as if it were the Vogons in power in No. 10.

    The Tories tried claiming that once, back in I think November 2013 - you could tell it was delbierate because it was rolled out across all the media in the orchestrated way that they had. They reverse ferreted very quickly indeed, because someone must have realised the implicit claim which they were making about themselves.

    It's an article of faith, like people on benefits have 50" TVs and everyone turns Tory after the age of 50.
  • In our "best Prime Minister" question, Keir Starmer remains ahead on 33% (n/c from the previous survey on 24 - 25 May), while the incumbent Boris Johnson has a 28% share of the vote (+3). Some 35% are unsure.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    Interesting. Surprisingly poor for the SLDs too given the drain in the Scon vote.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Foxy said:

    Feels like a lot of traditional Tory support will sit the by-election out in Tiverton, handing the seat to the LDs.
    I don't see that. The Tory core vote in the Shires have a consistently high turnout. They may not vote Tory, but they will vote.

    The newer Tory vote in purple wall areas may be more inclined to abstention.
    Fair point. We'll know in a week.

    (Goes off to do some more tinkering on the Time Machine he's building in the garage)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Carnyx said:

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating in Scotland (15 June):

    Approve: 26%
    Disapprove: 46%
    Net: -20%

    What’s the rating by party?

    My guess is that SNP supporters as a group have a high disapproval rating for all English politicians regardless of party.

    If that is the case then It says something about the SNP supporters rather than the politicians
    My guess is 'Scottish' Douglas Ross would rank lower than Rishi with supporters of all parties not SCon. Maybe SCons too..
    I like the way PBTories like to claim that being anti-Tory in Scotland, or more generally to be against having your poility and its policies overridden by a different polity, must be anti-English racism when it would be just the same as if it were the Vogons in power in No. 10.

    The Tories tried claiming that once, back in I think November 2013 - you could tell it was delbierate because it was rolled out across all the media in the orchestrated way that they had. They reverse ferreted very quickly indeed, because someone must have realised the implicit claim which they were making about themselves.

    It's an article of faith, like people on benefits have 50" TVs and everyone turns Tory after the age of 50.
    Like miners used the baths in their nice new council houses to keep the coal in.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    The Cons fighting a 'culture war' election - aka pander to prejudice and softhead nostalgia in lieu of workable policies to improve people's lives - and winning would be so so depressing. Even just contemplating it is a serious downer.

    So let's not! Let's go sunny side up to match the weather. If they do that and LOSE - esp if it's a thrashing - that will be a terrific outcome. That will be this country saying to them, "No, Tories, no. You have us all wrong. We're better than you think. So piss off now and don't even think about pulling this shit again."
    "sunny"

    Not here it isn't - it's pissing down (but nice and cool, and it beats watering the garden as well as helping refill the reservoirs)
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating in Scotland (15 June):

    Approve: 26%
    Disapprove: 46%
    Net: -20%

    What’s the rating by party?

    My guess is that SNP supporters as a group have a high disapproval rating for all English politicians regardless of party.

    If that is the case then It says something about the SNP supporters rather than the politicians
    My guess is 'Scottish' Douglas Ross would rank lower than Rishi with supporters of all parties not SCon. Maybe SCons too..
    I like the way PBTories like to claim that being anti-Tory in Scotland, or more generally to be against having your poility and its policies overridden by a different polity, must be anti-English racism when it would be just the same as if it were the Vogons in power in No. 10.

    The Tories tried claiming that once, back in I think November 2013 - you could tell it was delbierate because it was rolled out across all the media in the orchestrated way that they had. They reverse ferreted very quickly indeed, because someone must have realised the implicit claim which they were making about themselves.

    I remember a pub owner in the West Highlands who regularly complained that the locals hated him cos he was English. Untrue. The locals hated him cos he was a c***.

    What he failed to observe, or chose to ignore, were all the other English folk in the village who were loved, admired and respected.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    Andy Burnham asks about what Keir Starmer stands for.



    What does Andy stand for?

    Something unlike SKS

    This week he has slashed Public Transport Costs across Greater Manchester

    Starmer has as usual "bored people to death"
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    Really pleased to see that as Scottish labour are the party most likely to damage the SNP and with some tactical voting the SNP may yet experience a fall from grace
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    Positive covid test this morning - it's finally caught up with me. Feel like sh*t too.

    Hey ho.

    Rest and drink lots of water. Battling through it is really not the best plan.
    Thanks David, I'll do that. Helped by the fact that Mrs P. has a bit of sympathy now that she's seen the test result she knows it's not just man flu.

    She's off to buy me a tin of Heinz Tomato Soup - nowadays a terrible ultra-processed food, no doubt, but my childhood comfort blanket for every kind of minor sickness :-)
    Hope you get better soon. I had it last week. Two days of feeling a bit crap then fine so not to worry too much.

    It didn't seem to matter if I rested or not. It's just a case of the virus working through your body. Was the faintest of faint lines for a while (days 5-7) but cleared up completely day 8.
    Interesting, thanks.

    I had a negative test on Tuesday, even though I felt crap. The test I did this morning though left a very deep bold T line - no doubts at all. And no surprise tbh.

    I don't need to work so I am just putting my feet up and enjoying the weather. Could be a lot worse.
    Covid has always been a lottery in terms of outcome, both original and Omicron. I felt pretty rough for a week in Feb with it, and very fatigued afterwards for a few more. I then revived, but the last month or so relapsed with fatigue, muscle aches etc. Nothing to stop me working, but I am knackered at the end of the day mentally and physically enough to stop me covering voluntary overtime.

    Listen to your body, and rest if that is what it is saying.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    Electoral calculus says 318 seats with that subsample taken into account
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    Really pleased to see that as Scottish labour are the party most likely to damage the SNP and with some tactical voting the SNP may yet experience a fall from grace
    I think that *already* has the tactical voting in it - people driven from the Tories to vote for Mr Starmer. Hopw long that will last I don't know, given the likely tenor of a Tory election campaign.
  • Once the narrative sets in that the Tories are no longer able to oppose the SNP in Scotland, it is only sensible Labour jumps ahead.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    In our "best Prime Minister" question, Keir Starmer remains ahead on 33% (n/c from the previous survey on 24 - 25 May), while the incumbent Boris Johnson has a 28% share of the vote (+3). Some 35% are unsure.

    Atrocious for SKS in the circumstances.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    In my ongoing pushback against the "nothing of interest on Twitter" brigade, here's an account which should appeal to both @Sunil_Prasannan and @Leon ...

    https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/1065880618662313984

    https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/1537164666941710336
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    Really pleased to see that as Scottish labour are the party most likely to damage the SNP and with some tactical voting the SNP may yet experience a fall from grace
    One Scottish subsample does not a Unionist surge make.
  • Andy Burnham asks about what Keir Starmer stands for.



    What does Andy stand for?

    Something unlike SKS

    This week he has slashed Public Transport Costs across Greater Manchester

    Starmer has as usual "bored people to death"
    So if it's something, you can tell us.
  • We're going to have some updated Westminster voting intention out today, with an experimental additional VI based on party list proportional representation. Happy to share data with those interested in PR...

    New Survation poll today
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    The Cons fighting a 'culture war' election - aka pander to prejudice and softhead nostalgia in lieu of workable policies to improve people's lives - and winning would be so so depressing. Even just contemplating it is a serious downer.

    So let's not! Let's go sunny side up to match the weather. If they do that and LOSE - esp if it's a thrashing - that will be a terrific outcome. That will be this country saying to them, "No, Tories, no. You have us all wrong. We're better than you think. So piss off now and don't even think about pulling this shit again."
    "sunny"

    Not here it isn't - it's pissing down (but nice and cool, and it beats watering the garden as well as helping refill the reservoirs)
    No Sun here either. We are promised a blistering 23°C later.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Nigelb said:

    In my ongoing pushback against the "nothing of interest on Twitter" brigade, here's an account which should appeal to both @Sunil_Prasannan and @Leon ...

    https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/1065880618662313984

    https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/1537164666941710336

    Ooh, yes: instant memories of Waugh's novel Scoop.

    And especially for @DavidL and the PBScots:

    https://twitter.com/Daryl_Gerard/status/1537167436029517825
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    Interesting study. I am boringly in the majority on this. Interesting too that sport was seen as a legitimate exception even by people favouring inclusion by other means.

    This was quite telling too:

    "the report emphasised that people did not primarily see these issues “through a narrow lens of gender identity”, with discussion broadening out to the fact most people do not like communal changing rooms per se, while the minority who were less comfortable with unisex bathrooms were more worried that men tend to be less hygienic than women in communal toilets, rather than about safety."
    At my dot com boom job, we had shared toilets and no-one complained about safety but there were occasionally heartfelt pleas for men to stop pissing on the floor.
    Yes, and first rule of festival toilets is go into one that a woman has been in, not a bloke. Particularly so after dark, and everything a bit squelchy.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Nigelb said:

    In my ongoing pushback against the "nothing of interest on Twitter" brigade, here's an account which should appeal to both @Sunil_Prasannan and @Leon ...

    https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/1065880618662313984

    https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/1537164666941710336

    A perfect example of why Twitter is a shite format for loquacious people.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    Interesting study. I am boringly in the majority on this. Interesting too that sport was seen as a legitimate exception even by people favouring inclusion by other means.

    This was quite telling too:

    "the report emphasised that people did not primarily see these issues “through a narrow lens of gender identity”, with discussion broadening out to the fact most people do not like communal changing rooms per se, while the minority who were less comfortable with unisex bathrooms were more worried that men tend to be less hygienic than women in communal toilets, rather than about safety."
    And more generally, would that we had a government more interested in practical solutions than cultural conflict.
    Ditto the radical Trans activists.

    I think like many other issues, such as race and female equality, or gay marriage cultural change and acceptance takes time.

    My problem with a lot of Trans politics is that it is heavily influenced by rather outdated gender stereotypes of what makes a man a man or a woman a woman.
    As time goes on and society develops, it is becoming more complex. People are no longer just 'straight'; people can (openly) be gay, bisexual, asexual and a gamut of others options. It is no longer the case that the men work whilst their wives look after the children; roles can be shared or swapped. In fact, unmarried couples with kids are far from unusual, along with single mums etc.

    It is not jut the fact that things have changed from the 'traditional' (in fact, often it is that they've just become more visible). It's the fact things have become much more complex, and people can no longer be easily pigeonholed.

    People don't like the complexity, but they will get used to it.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Once the narrative sets in that the Tories are no longer able to oppose the SNP in Scotland, it is only sensible Labour jumps ahead.

    True.

    The era of modest Ruth Davidson Party success was the phoney war. The final bastion of the Union is, and always has been, the Labour Party.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Carnyx said:



    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Positive covid test this morning - it's finally caught up with me. Feel like sh*t too.

    Hey ho.

    Rest and drink lots of water. Battling through it is really not the best plan.
    Thanks David, I'll do that. Helped by the fact that Mrs P. has a bit of sympathy now that she's seen the test result she knows it's not just man flu.

    She's off to buy me a tin of Heinz Tomato Soup - nowadays a terrible ultra-processed food, no doubt, but my childhood comfort blanket for every kind of minor sickness :-)
    Tinned fruit and custard. It should be available on prescription.
    Stovies, pickled beetroot and cold roast lamb for me.
    Mince and tatties, with or without skirlie.
    *hungry*
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    Really pleased to see that as Scottish labour are the party most likely to damage the SNP and with some tactical voting the SNP may yet experience a fall from grace
    I think that *already* has the tactical voting in it - people driven from the Tories to vote for Mr Starmer. How long that will last I don't know, given the likely tenor of a Tory election campaign.
    I genuinely believe Nicola is experiencing indyref 2 fatigue, and the Scots clearly do not want the referendum anytime soon, if at all.

    She is attempting something at a time when Scots worries are focused on other more important issues and it is inconceivable the Westminster Parliament with Boris, Starmer and Davy all implacably opposed to granting indyref 2, that I expect her to seek a way out of First Minister and pursue a career elsewhere
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    Interesting study. I am boringly in the majority on this. Interesting too that sport was seen as a legitimate exception even by people favouring inclusion by other means.

    This was quite telling too:

    "the report emphasised that people did not primarily see these issues “through a narrow lens of gender identity”, with discussion broadening out to the fact most people do not like communal changing rooms per se, while the minority who were less comfortable with unisex bathrooms were more worried that men tend to be less hygienic than women in communal toilets, rather than about safety."
    And more generally, would that we had a government more interested in practical solutions than cultural conflict.
    Ditto the radical Trans activists.

    I think like many other issues, such as race and female equality, or gay marriage cultural change and acceptance takes time.

    My problem with a lot of Trans politics is that it is heavily influenced by rather outdated gender stereotypes of what makes a man a man or a woman a woman.
    As time goes on and society develops, it is becoming more complex. People are no longer just 'straight'; people can (openly) be gay, bisexual, asexual and a gamut of others options. It is no longer the case that the men work whilst their wives look after the children; roles can be shared or swapped. In fact, unmarried couples with kids are far from unusual, along with single mums etc.

    It is not jut the fact that things have changed from the 'traditional' (in fact, often it is that they've just become more visible). It's the fact things have become much more complex, and people can no longer be easily pigeonholed.

    People don't like the complexity, but they will get used to it.
    And yet the left is trying ever more strongly to pigeonhole people...
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:



    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Positive covid test this morning - it's finally caught up with me. Feel like sh*t too.

    Hey ho.

    Rest and drink lots of water. Battling through it is really not the best plan.
    Thanks David, I'll do that. Helped by the fact that Mrs P. has a bit of sympathy now that she's seen the test result she knows it's not just man flu.

    She's off to buy me a tin of Heinz Tomato Soup - nowadays a terrible ultra-processed food, no doubt, but my childhood comfort blanket for every kind of minor sickness :-)
    Tinned fruit and custard. It should be available on prescription.
    Stovies, pickled beetroot and cold roast lamb for me.
    Mince and tatties, with or without skirlie.
    *hungry*
    Tuna, eggs and grapefruit juice. Plus plenty of rest and sleep.

    Folk who “work through” illness are either idiots or so poor they have no choice. It is catastrophic for body and mind in the long run.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Once the narrative sets in that the Tories are no longer able to oppose the SNP in Scotland, it is only sensible Labour jumps ahead.

    True.

    The era of modest Ruth Davidson Party success was the phoney war. The final bastion of the Union is, and always has been, the Labour Party.
    Truly we are in the end times.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    Really pleased to see that as Scottish labour are the party most likely to damage the SNP and with some tactical voting the SNP may yet experience a fall from grace
    One Scottish subsample does not a Unionist surge make.
    It is the trend and it is there for all to see

    Indyref2 is not happening, not least as the Scots themselves do not want it
  • Conservatives are more trusted to 'respond to the coronavirus crisis' (29% to 28%).

    Labour is more trusted than the Conservatives in ALL other areas on which we poll.

    Labour is most trusted to 'support the NHS' (41%), 'tackle poverty' (38%), and 'manage housing' (36%).

    Big news as Labour pulls ahead on the economy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    Really pleased to see that as Scottish labour are the party most likely to damage the SNP and with some tactical voting the SNP may yet experience a fall from grace
    I think that *already* has the tactical voting in it - people driven from the Tories to vote for Mr Starmer. How long that will last I don't know, given the likely tenor of a Tory election campaign.
    I genuinely believe Nicola is experiencing indyref 2 fatigue, and the Scots clearly do not want the referendum anytime soon, if at all.

    She is attempting something at a time when Scots worries are focused on other more important issues and it is inconceivable the Westminster Parliament with Boris, Starmer and Davy all implacably opposed to granting indyref 2, that I expect her to seek a way out of First Minister and pursue a career elsewhere
    You'rfe missing the point which is that Westminster is screwing up the "more important issues".

    And SKS will change his mind in a millisecond if it is his only way to No 10: Downing Street is worth an indyref, to misquote Henri of Navarre.

    You are also missing the much wider point which your local victory would imply - a total defeat of the Tories - the former 'Conservative' Party - in the UK.
  • Labour 6 points clear on the economy. Nobody would have suggested that were possible after 2019.

    Keir Starmer has done an amazing job, whether he loses or wins, that in of itself is significant.
  • Labour 6 points clear on HANDLE IMMIGRATION
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    Interesting study. I am boringly in the majority on this. Interesting too that sport was seen as a legitimate exception even by people favouring inclusion by other means.

    This was quite telling too:

    "the report emphasised that people did not primarily see these issues “through a narrow lens of gender identity”, with discussion broadening out to the fact most people do not like communal changing rooms per se, while the minority who were less comfortable with unisex bathrooms were more worried that men tend to be less hygienic than women in communal toilets, rather than about safety."
    At my dot com boom job, we had shared toilets and no-one complained about safety but there were occasionally heartfelt pleas for men to stop pissing on the floor.
    I was taught many years ago that one of the versions of Murphy's Law was that however much you shake it the last drop always goes down your trousers. Which explains why men piss on the floor.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,781
    Applicant said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    Interesting study. I am boringly in the majority on this. Interesting too that sport was seen as a legitimate exception even by people favouring inclusion by other means.

    This was quite telling too:

    "the report emphasised that people did not primarily see these issues “through a narrow lens of gender identity”, with discussion broadening out to the fact most people do not like communal changing rooms per se, while the minority who were less comfortable with unisex bathrooms were more worried that men tend to be less hygienic than women in communal toilets, rather than about safety."
    And more generally, would that we had a government more interested in practical solutions than cultural conflict.
    Ditto the radical Trans activists.

    I think like many other issues, such as race and female equality, or gay marriage cultural change and acceptance takes time.

    My problem with a lot of Trans politics is that it is heavily influenced by rather outdated gender stereotypes of what makes a man a man or a woman a woman.
    As time goes on and society develops, it is becoming more complex. People are no longer just 'straight'; people can (openly) be gay, bisexual, asexual and a gamut of others options. It is no longer the case that the men work whilst their wives look after the children; roles can be shared or swapped. In fact, unmarried couples with kids are far from unusual, along with single mums etc.

    It is not jut the fact that things have changed from the 'traditional' (in fact, often it is that they've just become more visible). It's the fact things have become much more complex, and people can no longer be easily pigeonholed.

    People don't like the complexity, but they will get used to it.
    And yet the left is trying ever more strongly to pigeonhole people...
    It's not the left who keeps asking people to define a woman though, is it.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Applicant said:

    In our "best Prime Minister" question, Keir Starmer remains ahead on 33% (n/c from the previous survey on 24 - 25 May), while the incumbent Boris Johnson has a 28% share of the vote (+3). Some 35% are unsure.

    Atrocious for SKS in the circumstances.
    CHB thinks its fantastic
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Once the narrative sets in that the Tories are no longer able to oppose the SNP in Scotland, it is only sensible Labour jumps ahead.

    True.

    The era of modest Ruth Davidson Party success was the phoney war. The final bastion of the Union is, and always has been, the Labour Party.
    Also, the closer we move to indyref the more obviously Slab will be getting back into bed with the Tories. Being the Tories' penal battalions was not good for Slab a decade ago. Imagine Mr Sarwar, SKS, and Mr Johnson all on the same TV table and singing from the same songbook.
  • Applicant said:

    In our "best Prime Minister" question, Keir Starmer remains ahead on 33% (n/c from the previous survey on 24 - 25 May), while the incumbent Boris Johnson has a 28% share of the vote (+3). Some 35% are unsure.

    Atrocious for SKS in the circumstances.
    CHB thinks its fantastic
    When did Andy Burnham or Corbyn ever lead on the economy?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    As expected, but a big moment all the same: Ursula von der Leyen announces that the European Commission recommends granting Ukraine EU membership candidate status https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1537737911411650561/photo/1


    Have BoZo and the fanbois explained why joining the EU is bad for Ukraine yet?
  • Applicant said:

    In our "best Prime Minister" question, Keir Starmer remains ahead on 33% (n/c from the previous survey on 24 - 25 May), while the incumbent Boris Johnson has a 28% share of the vote (+3). Some 35% are unsure.

    Atrocious for SKS in the circumstances.
    CHB thinks its fantastic
    When did Andy Burnham or Corbyn ever lead on the economy?

    Applicant said:

    In our "best Prime Minister" question, Keir Starmer remains ahead on 33% (n/c from the previous survey on 24 - 25 May), while the incumbent Boris Johnson has a 28% share of the vote (+3). Some 35% are unsure.

    Atrocious for SKS in the circumstances.
    CHB thinks its fantastic
    After 2019 I think it's very good yes.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    Interesting study. I am boringly in the majority on this. Interesting too that sport was seen as a legitimate exception even by people favouring inclusion by other means.

    This was quite telling too:

    "the report emphasised that people did not primarily see these issues “through a narrow lens of gender identity”, with discussion broadening out to the fact most people do not like communal changing rooms per se, while the minority who were less comfortable with unisex bathrooms were more worried that men tend to be less hygienic than women in communal toilets, rather than about safety."
    And more generally, would that we had a government more interested in practical solutions than cultural conflict.
    Ditto the radical Trans activists.

    I think like many other issues, such as race and female equality, or gay marriage cultural change and acceptance takes time.

    My problem with a lot of Trans politics is that it is heavily influenced by rather outdated gender stereotypes of what makes a man a man or a woman a woman.
    As time goes on and society develops, it is becoming more complex. People are no longer just 'straight'; people can (openly) be gay, bisexual, asexual and a gamut of others options. It is no longer the case that the men work whilst their wives look after the children; roles can be shared or swapped. In fact, unmarried couples with kids are far from unusual, along with single mums etc.

    It is not jut the fact that things have changed from the 'traditional' (in fact, often it is that they've just become more visible). It's the fact things have become much more complex, and people can no longer be easily pigeonholed.

    People don't like the complexity, but they will get used to it.
    And yet the left is trying ever more strongly to pigeonhole people...
    It's not the left who keeps asking people to define a woman though, is it.
    It is the left that has found it difficult to do so, though, isn't it?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    First reported Ukranian use of Harpoons ?

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1537695657439404032
    Ukrainian TB2 UCAV footage showing two missile strikes reportedly on the Russian Vasily Bekh rescue ship that was carrying a Tor-M2KM air defense system that was headed to Snake Island.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Labour 6 points clear on the economy. Nobody would have suggested that were possible after 2019.

    Keir Starmer has done an amazing job, whether he loses or wins, that in of itself is significant.

    Barely ahead on best PM against this PM in these circumstances? I can see why you're spamming the board with a different "positive" in each comment, but nobody neutral is remotely impressed.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    In our "best Prime Minister" question, Keir Starmer remains ahead on 33% (n/c from the previous survey on 24 - 25 May), while the incumbent Boris Johnson has a 28% share of the vote (+3). Some 35% are unsure.

    Atrocious for SKS in the circumstances.
    CHB thinks its fantastic
    When did Andy Burnham or Corbyn ever lead on the economy?

    Applicant said:

    In our "best Prime Minister" question, Keir Starmer remains ahead on 33% (n/c from the previous survey on 24 - 25 May), while the incumbent Boris Johnson has a 28% share of the vote (+3). Some 35% are unsure.

    Atrocious for SKS in the circumstances.
    CHB thinks its fantastic
    After 2019 I think it's very good yes.
    It isn't 2019. It's 2022.
  • Applicant said:

    Labour 6 points clear on the economy. Nobody would have suggested that were possible after 2019.

    Keir Starmer has done an amazing job, whether he loses or wins, that in of itself is significant.

    Barely ahead on best PM against this PM in these circumstances? I can see why you're spamming the board with a different "positive" in each comment, but nobody neutral is remotely impressed.
    You're not remotely neutral my friend. We know you hate Keir, it's okay.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    In my ongoing pushback against the "nothing of interest on Twitter" brigade, here's an account which should appeal to both @Sunil_Prasannan and @Leon ...

    https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/1065880618662313984

    https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/1537164666941710336

    Ooh, yes: instant memories of Waugh's novel Scoop....
    The book which taught me the word chryselephantine.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Applicant said:

    Labour 6 points clear on the economy. Nobody would have suggested that were possible after 2019.

    Keir Starmer has done an amazing job, whether he loses or wins, that in of itself is significant.

    Barely ahead on best PM against this PM in these circumstances? I can see why you're spamming the board with a different "positive" in each comment, but nobody neutral is remotely impressed.
    In fairness to Horse, those criteria are pretty potent. It's also logically necessary for people to first conclude that the Tories are crap, or whatever, before moving on to whomsoever might be somewhat less crappy. We might well be in that interim stage.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited June 2022

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    Really pleased to see that as Scottish labour are the party most likely to damage the SNP and with some tactical voting the SNP may yet experience a fall from grace
    One Scottish subsample does not a Unionist surge make.
    It is the trend and it is there for all to see

    Indyref2 is not happening, not least as the Scots themselves do not want it
    “Trend”? Ho ho.

    Psephology clearly not your field.

    In order to establish “trends” Scotland would need regular, preferably monthly, full-sample polls from at least three different polling organisations. Otherwise we’re just dipping toes in water.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    Andy Burnham asks about what Keir Starmer stands for.



    What does Andy stand for?

    Something unlike SKS

    This week he has slashed Public Transport Costs across Greater Manchester

    Starmer has as usual "bored people to death"
    So if it's something, you can tell us.
    I just have Burnham is a Socialist always has been always will be and he stands for making peoples lives better.

    This week he has done that by lowering bus fares to a maximum of £2 per journey

    SKS stands for boring people to death according to his colleagues
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017
  • Andy Burnham asks about what Keir Starmer stands for.



    What does Andy stand for?

    Something unlike SKS

    This week he has slashed Public Transport Costs across Greater Manchester

    Starmer has as usual "bored people to death"
    So if it's something, you can tell us.
    I just have Burnham is a Socialist always has been always will be and he stands for making peoples lives better.

    This week he has done that by lowering bus fares to a maximum of £2 per journey

    SKS stands for boring people to death according to his colleagues
    Is this the same Andy Burnham that supported austerity?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    In my ongoing pushback against the "nothing of interest on Twitter" brigade, here's an account which should appeal to both @Sunil_Prasannan and @Leon ...

    https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/1065880618662313984

    https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/1537164666941710336

    Ooh, yes: instant memories of Waugh's novel Scoop....
    The book which taught me the word chryselephantine.
    Especially when looking at those photos.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    Labour 6 points clear on the economy. Nobody would have suggested that were possible after 2019.

    Keir Starmer has done an amazing job, whether he loses or wins, that in of itself is significant.

    Barely ahead on best PM against this PM in these circumstances? I can see why you're spamming the board with a different "positive" in each comment, but nobody neutral is remotely impressed.
    You're not remotely neutral my friend. We know you hate Keir, it's okay.
    We've never met.

    I don't hate SKS. I'm desperate for him to give me a reason to vote for him against this disgrace of an incumbent government. So far? Nothing. Trying to win by default doesn't remotely impress me. Where are the Labour policies?
  • Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017

    Well we have to win next year, has a country even hosted it twice in a row?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,961
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    Really pleased to see that as Scottish labour are the party most likely to damage the SNP and with some tactical voting the SNP may yet experience a fall from grace
    I think that *already* has the tactical voting in it - people driven from the Tories to vote for Mr Starmer. How long that will last I don't know, given the likely tenor of a Tory election campaign.
    I genuinely believe Nicola is experiencing indyref 2 fatigue, and the Scots clearly do not want the referendum anytime soon, if at all.

    She is attempting something at a time when Scots worries are focused on other more important issues and it is inconceivable the Westminster Parliament with Boris, Starmer and Davy all implacably opposed to granting indyref 2, that I expect her to seek a way out of First Minister and pursue a career elsewhere
    You'rfe missing the point which is that Westminster is screwing up the "more important issues".

    And SKS will change his mind in a millisecond if it is his only way to No 10: Downing Street is worth an indyref, to misquote Henri of Navarre.

    You are also missing the much wider point which your local victory would imply - a total defeat of the Tories - the former 'Conservative' Party - in the UK.
    The view from Wales is the clearest view of Scotland of all as any ful kno.

    It's going to be hilarious seeing PB Tories fulminating on the crapness of SKS and Labour while encouraging Scots to vote Labour for 'reasons'.
    What I mean going to be? It is hilarious!
  • Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Labour 6 points clear on the economy. Nobody would have suggested that were possible after 2019.

    Keir Starmer has done an amazing job, whether he loses or wins, that in of itself is significant.

    Barely ahead on best PM against this PM in these circumstances? I can see why you're spamming the board with a different "positive" in each comment, but nobody neutral is remotely impressed.
    You're not remotely neutral my friend. We know you hate Keir, it's okay.
    We've never met.

    I don't hate SKS. I'm desperate for him to give me a reason to vote for him against this disgrace of an incumbent government. So far? Nothing. Trying to win by default doesn't remotely impress me. Where are the Labour policies?
    It's just a term of endearment - but okay we won't be friends then.

    Ask Labour, I am not their spokesperson.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017

    Eurovision in Scotland! Save the Union! (Version 34,782)
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017

    Well we have to win next year, has a country even hosted it twice in a row?
    Ireland did
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017

    Well we have to win next year, has a country even hosted it twice in a row?
    Ireland three years in a row (and four out of five) in the 90s.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:



    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Positive covid test this morning - it's finally caught up with me. Feel like sh*t too.

    Hey ho.

    Rest and drink lots of water. Battling through it is really not the best plan.
    Thanks David, I'll do that. Helped by the fact that Mrs P. has a bit of sympathy now that she's seen the test result she knows it's not just man flu.

    She's off to buy me a tin of Heinz Tomato Soup - nowadays a terrible ultra-processed food, no doubt, but my childhood comfort blanket for every kind of minor sickness :-)
    Tinned fruit and custard. It should be available on prescription.
    Stovies, pickled beetroot and cold roast lamb for me.
    Mince and tatties, with or without skirlie.
    *hungry*
    Tuna, eggs and grapefruit juice. Plus plenty of rest and sleep.

    Folk who “work through” illness are either idiots or so poor they have no choice. It is catastrophic for body and mind in the long run.
    Grapefruit juice is weirdly incompatible with almost all prescription medication.

    Unconnectedly I like everything about Sicily. Palermo rocks
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    Really pleased to see that as Scottish labour are the party most likely to damage the SNP and with some tactical voting the SNP may yet experience a fall from grace
    I think that *already* has the tactical voting in it - people driven from the Tories to vote for Mr Starmer. How long that will last I don't know, given the likely tenor of a Tory election campaign.
    I genuinely believe Nicola is experiencing indyref 2 fatigue, and the Scots clearly do not want the referendum anytime soon, if at all.

    She is attempting something at a time when Scots worries are focused on other more important issues and it is inconceivable the Westminster Parliament with Boris, Starmer and Davy all implacably opposed to granting indyref 2, that I expect her to seek a way out of First Minister and pursue a career elsewhere
    You'rfe missing the point which is that Westminster is screwing up the "more important issues".

    And SKS will change his mind in a millisecond if it is his only way to No 10: Downing Street is worth an indyref, to misquote Henri of Navarre.

    You are also missing the much wider point which your local victory would imply - a total defeat of the Tories - the former 'Conservative' Party - in the UK.
    The view from Wales is the clearest view of Scotland of all as any ful kno.

    It's going to be hilarious seeing PB Tories fulminating on the crapness of SKS and Labour while encouraging Scots to vote Labour for 'reasons'.
    What I mean going to be? It is hilarious!
    On a point of PBpedantry: ful is spelled fule as any clot kno.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    Andy Burnham asks about what Keir Starmer stands for.



    What does Andy stand for?

    Something unlike SKS

    This week he has slashed Public Transport Costs across Greater Manchester

    Starmer has as usual "bored people to death"
    So if it's something, you can tell us.
    I just have Burnham is a Socialist always has been always will be and he stands for making peoples lives better.

    This week he has done that by lowering bus fares to a maximum of £2 per journey

    SKS stands for boring people to death according to his colleagues
    Is this the same Andy Burnham that supported austerity?
    and by so doing handed the Leader Contest to Corbyn and we all know how terribly that turned out
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017

    Well we have to win next year, has a country even hosted it twice in a row?
    Our neighbours have. That's why they stopped trying.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    Really pleased to see that as Scottish labour are the party most likely to damage the SNP and with some tactical voting the SNP may yet experience a fall from grace
    I think that *already* has the tactical voting in it - people driven from the Tories to vote for Mr Starmer. How long that will last I don't know, given the likely tenor of a Tory election campaign.
    I genuinely believe Nicola is experiencing indyref 2 fatigue, and the Scots clearly do not want the referendum anytime soon, if at all.

    She is attempting something at a time when Scots worries are focused on other more important issues and it is inconceivable the Westminster Parliament with Boris, Starmer and Davy all implacably opposed to granting indyref 2, that I expect her to seek a way out of First Minister and pursue a career elsewhere
    You'rfe missing the point which is that Westminster is screwing up the "more important issues".

    And SKS will change his mind in a millisecond if it is his only way to No 10: Downing Street is worth an indyref, to misquote Henri of Navarre.

    You are also missing the much wider point which your local victory would imply - a total defeat of the Tories - the former 'Conservative' Party - in the UK.
    The view from Wales is the clearest view of Scotland of all as any ful kno.

    It's going to be hilarious seeing PB Tories fulminating on the crapness of SKS and Labour while encouraging Scots to vote Labour for 'reasons'.
    What I mean going to be? It is hilarious!
    Yes, and with a GE coming up in the next year or two - which also seems to have escaped being noted in this context.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    Really pleased to see that as Scottish labour are the party most likely to damage the SNP and with some tactical voting the SNP may yet experience a fall from grace
    I think that *already* has the tactical voting in it - people driven from the Tories to vote for Mr Starmer. How long that will last I don't know, given the likely tenor of a Tory election campaign.
    I genuinely believe Nicola is experiencing indyref 2 fatigue, and the Scots clearly do not want the referendum anytime soon, if at all.

    She is attempting something at a time when Scots worries are focused on other more important issues and it is inconceivable the Westminster Parliament with Boris, Starmer and Davy all implacably opposed to granting indyref 2, that I expect her to seek a way out of First Minister and pursue a career elsewhere
    You'rfe missing the point which is that Westminster is screwing up the "more important issues".

    And SKS will change his mind in a millisecond if it is his only way to No 10: Downing Street is worth an indyref, to misquote Henri of Navarre.

    You are also missing the much wider point which your local victory would imply - a total defeat of the Tories - the former 'Conservative' Party - in the UK.
    The view from Wales is the clearest view of Scotland of all as any ful kno.

    It's going to be hilarious seeing PB Tories fulminating on the crapness of SKS and Labour while encouraging Scots to vote Labour for 'reasons'.
    What I mean going to be? It is hilarious!
    On a point of PBpedantry: ful is spelled fule as any clot kno.
    Chiz
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:



    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Positive covid test this morning - it's finally caught up with me. Feel like sh*t too.

    Hey ho.

    Rest and drink lots of water. Battling through it is really not the best plan.
    Thanks David, I'll do that. Helped by the fact that Mrs P. has a bit of sympathy now that she's seen the test result she knows it's not just man flu.

    She's off to buy me a tin of Heinz Tomato Soup - nowadays a terrible ultra-processed food, no doubt, but my childhood comfort blanket for every kind of minor sickness :-)
    Tinned fruit and custard. It should be available on prescription.
    Stovies, pickled beetroot and cold roast lamb for me.
    Mince and tatties, with or without skirlie.
    *hungry*
    Tuna, eggs and grapefruit juice. Plus plenty of rest and sleep.

    Folk who “work through” illness are either idiots or so poor they have no choice. It is catastrophic for body and mind in the long run.
    Grapefruit juice is weirdly incompatible with almost all prescription medication.

    Unconnectedly I like everything about Sicily. Palermo rocks
    Not all. Certain cardiac medicines yes.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited June 2022

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    Interesting study. I am boringly in the majority on this. Interesting too that sport was seen as a legitimate exception even by people favouring inclusion by other means.

    This was quite telling too:

    "the report emphasised that people did not primarily see these issues “through a narrow lens of gender identity”, with discussion broadening out to the fact most people do not like communal changing rooms per se, while the minority who were less comfortable with unisex bathrooms were more worried that men tend to be less hygienic than women in communal toilets, rather than about safety."
    And more generally, would that we had a government more interested in practical solutions than cultural conflict.
    Ditto the radical Trans activists.

    I think like many other issues, such as race and female equality, or gay marriage cultural change and acceptance takes time.

    My problem with a lot of Trans politics is that it is heavily influenced by rather outdated gender stereotypes of what makes a man a man or a woman a woman.
    As time goes on and society develops, it is becoming more complex. People are no longer just 'straight'; people can (openly) be gay, bisexual, asexual and a gamut of others options. It is no longer the case that the men work whilst their wives look after the children; roles can be shared or swapped. In fact, unmarried couples with kids are far from unusual, along with single mums etc.

    It is not jut the fact that things have changed from the 'traditional' (in fact, often it is that they've just become more visible). It's the fact things have become much more complex, and people can no longer be easily pigeonholed.

    People don't like the complexity, but they will get used to it.
    I think its part of a modern obsession to have to label people according to every personality trait or health condition they have - I am not sure its healthy and people should be as they want to be or are without somebody else (society) getting obsessive about labelling them (even in no malicious intent) .We see it in the ludicrous LGBTQ++% that seems to expand every year.
    Perhaps more seriously we see it where anyone (especially young people) who is good at maths , a bit socially nervous or shy or is a bit obsessive about a hobby gets labelled as "on the spectrum" . When I hear somebody discuss somebody else as that (just because they dont act the "norm" ) I just feel like saying "oh just F off"
  • tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017

    Well we have to win next year, has a country even hosted it twice in a row?
    Our neighbours have. That's why they stopped trying.
    We also stopped trying.

    Until this year when we did - and the song is actually really good. More of that please.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017

    Well we have to win next year, has a country even hosted it twice in a row?
    Our neighbours have. That's why they stopped trying.
    We also stopped trying.

    Until this year when we did - and the song is actually really good. More of that please.
    Seems like a nice boy too! Ran a very popular tea-shop not far away from here, although he did have a tendency to close and go surfing.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017

    Hell yeah!!!!!
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited June 2022

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017

    Well we have to win next year, has a country even hosted it twice in a row?
    Our neighbours have. That's why they stopped trying.
    We also stopped trying.

    Until this year when we did - and the song is actually really good. More of that please.
    Seems like a nice boy too! Ran a very popular tea-shop not far away from here, although he did have a tendency to close and go surfing.
    You're telling me that sometimes you can judge a book by its cover? :)
  • Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017

    Eurovision in Scotland! Save the Union! (Version 34,782)
    Glasgow is to host, according to the Metro. https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/16/eurovision-song-contest-2023-to-be-in-glasgow-if-ukraine-drops-out-16839937/
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    Andy Burnham asks about what Keir Starmer stands for.



    What does Andy stand for?

    Something unlike SKS

    This week he has slashed Public Transport Costs across Greater Manchester

    Starmer has as usual "bored people to death"
    So if it's something, you can tell us.
    I just have Burnham is a Socialist always has been always will be and he stands for making peoples lives better.

    This week he has done that by lowering bus fares to a maximum of £2 per journey

    SKS stands for boring people to death according to his colleagues
    Meanwhile. It's £5.70 for me to go into town. One way.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Applicant said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017

    Well we have to win next year, has a country even hosted it twice in a row?
    Our neighbours have. That's why they stopped trying.
    We also stopped trying.

    Until this year when we did - and the song is actually really good. More of that please.
    Seems like a nice boy too! Ran a very popular tea-shop not far away from here, although he did have a tendency to close and go surfing.
    You're telling me that sometimes you can judge a book by its cover? :)
    Sorry, not with you.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    Interesting study. I am boringly in the majority on this. Interesting too that sport was seen as a legitimate exception even by people favouring inclusion by other means.

    This was quite telling too:

    "the report emphasised that people did not primarily see these issues “through a narrow lens of gender identity”, with discussion broadening out to the fact most people do not like communal changing rooms per se, while the minority who were less comfortable with unisex bathrooms were more worried that men tend to be less hygienic than women in communal toilets, rather than about safety."
    And more generally, would that we had a government more interested in practical solutions than cultural conflict.
    Ditto the radical Trans activists.

    I think like many other issues, such as race and female equality, or gay marriage cultural change and acceptance takes time.

    My problem with a lot of Trans politics is that it is heavily influenced by rather outdated gender stereotypes of what makes a man a man or a woman a woman.
    As time goes on and society develops, it is becoming more complex. People are no longer just 'straight'; people can (openly) be gay, bisexual, asexual and a gamut of others options. It is no longer the case that the men work whilst their wives look after the children; roles can be shared or swapped. In fact, unmarried couples with kids are far from unusual, along with single mums etc.

    It is not jut the fact that things have changed from the 'traditional' (in fact, often it is that they've just become more visible). It's the fact things have become much more complex, and people can no longer be easily pigeonholed.

    People don't like the complexity, but they will get used to it.
    I doubt very much that human nature changes over time.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017

    Well we have to win next year, has a country even hosted it twice in a row?
    Our neighbours have. That's why they stopped trying.
    We also stopped trying.

    Until this year when we did - and the song is actually really good. More of that please.
    Seems like a nice boy too! Ran a very popular tea-shop not far away from here, although he did have a tendency to close and go surfing.
    You're telling me that sometimes you can judge a book by its cover? :)
    Sorry, not with you.
    He just looks like a surfer dude...
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,781
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    Interesting study. I am boringly in the majority on this. Interesting too that sport was seen as a legitimate exception even by people favouring inclusion by other means.

    This was quite telling too:

    "the report emphasised that people did not primarily see these issues “through a narrow lens of gender identity”, with discussion broadening out to the fact most people do not like communal changing rooms per se, while the minority who were less comfortable with unisex bathrooms were more worried that men tend to be less hygienic than women in communal toilets, rather than about safety."
    And more generally, would that we had a government more interested in practical solutions than cultural conflict.
    Ditto the radical Trans activists.

    I think like many other issues, such as race and female equality, or gay marriage cultural change and acceptance takes time.

    My problem with a lot of Trans politics is that it is heavily influenced by rather outdated gender stereotypes of what makes a man a man or a woman a woman.
    As time goes on and society develops, it is becoming more complex. People are no longer just 'straight'; people can (openly) be gay, bisexual, asexual and a gamut of others options. It is no longer the case that the men work whilst their wives look after the children; roles can be shared or swapped. In fact, unmarried couples with kids are far from unusual, along with single mums etc.

    It is not jut the fact that things have changed from the 'traditional' (in fact, often it is that they've just become more visible). It's the fact things have become much more complex, and people can no longer be easily pigeonholed.

    People don't like the complexity, but they will get used to it.
    And yet the left is trying ever more strongly to pigeonhole people...
    It's not the left who keeps asking people to define a woman though, is it.
    It is the left that has found it difficult to do so, though, isn't it?
    That sounds like the opposite of pigeonholing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like Eurovision will be coming to the UK next year! https://twitter.com/EBU_HQ/status/1537736937124950017

    Well we have to win next year, has a country even hosted it twice in a row?
    Our neighbours have. That's why they stopped trying.
    We also stopped trying.

    Until this year when we did - and the song is actually really good. More of that please.
    Seems like a nice boy too! Ran a very popular tea-shop not far away from here, although he did have a tendency to close and go surfing.
    You're telling me that sometimes you can judge a book by its cover? :)
    Sorry, not with you.
    He just looks like a surfer dude...
    Ah, yes. Agree.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:


    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    @Benpointer get better soon. Best of healing vibes.

    The idea of a General Election this year is fanciful nonsense. It would be mass suicide: the Conservative Party equivalent of Jonestown.

    If Johnson tried it then the party would eject him as leader in minutes.

    They probably know that after this winter's heating bills, and sustained prices above £2 per litre at the pump, they will be out of power for a generation. Plus inflation is going nowhere, and rising interest rates are going to crash the housing market. So better to go to the polls now.

    If they announced a substantial cut / total suspension of fuel duty in August, election in September and won a majority of just 1, they would look like geniuses compared to going to the polls in 2023.

    It's 1997 in reverse. Instead of "things can only get better" it's "things can only get worse."
    ^this. The economy is *fucked*. Like once in a generation 1970s fucked. There is no happy ending for any government who has to carry the can through those events, especially when the government is on boostervision and simply denies there is a problem.

    We are rapidly approaching the political tipping point. Two major and one minor factors to consider:
    BREXIT: People swinging into the "this is shit" camp. But still persuadable that its shit only because remoaners / judges / lefties / the EU are to blame. They won't get away with that line of argument in 2024
    ECONOMY: Fucked. Going to get more fucked before there is any recovery and all I can see is downside in terms of the economic hardships that will need to be endured afterwards
    CULTURE: The minor factor. There is only so long they can stoke division with fear of lady cock and forrin refugees. Rwanda is a wedge issue, so make maximum use of it before it becomes clear the policy won't work and was never going to work.
    On the latter point, this did not get much play yesterday.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/16/britons-not-bitterly-polarised-over-trans-equality-research-finds

    Perhaps it should.
    Interesting study. I am boringly in the majority on this. Interesting too that sport was seen as a legitimate exception even by people favouring inclusion by other means.

    This was quite telling too:

    "the report emphasised that people did not primarily see these issues “through a narrow lens of gender identity”, with discussion broadening out to the fact most people do not like communal changing rooms per se, while the minority who were less comfortable with unisex bathrooms were more worried that men tend to be less hygienic than women in communal toilets, rather than about safety."
    And more generally, would that we had a government more interested in practical solutions than cultural conflict.
    Ditto the radical Trans activists.

    I think like many other issues, such as race and female equality, or gay marriage cultural change and acceptance takes time.

    My problem with a lot of Trans politics is that it is heavily influenced by rather outdated gender stereotypes of what makes a man a man or a woman a woman.
    As time goes on and society develops, it is becoming more complex. People are no longer just 'straight'; people can (openly) be gay, bisexual, asexual and a gamut of others options. It is no longer the case that the men work whilst their wives look after the children; roles can be shared or swapped. In fact, unmarried couples with kids are far from unusual, along with single mums etc.

    It is not jut the fact that things have changed from the 'traditional' (in fact, often it is that they've just become more visible). It's the fact things have become much more complex, and people can no longer be easily pigeonholed.

    People don't like the complexity, but they will get used to it.
    I doubt very much that human nature changes over time.
    I suspect it doesn't, but what does change is that people are allowed to be themselves. It is freedom in practice rather than just in theory.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:



    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Positive covid test this morning - it's finally caught up with me. Feel like sh*t too.

    Hey ho.

    Rest and drink lots of water. Battling through it is really not the best plan.
    Thanks David, I'll do that. Helped by the fact that Mrs P. has a bit of sympathy now that she's seen the test result she knows it's not just man flu.

    She's off to buy me a tin of Heinz Tomato Soup - nowadays a terrible ultra-processed food, no doubt, but my childhood comfort blanket for every kind of minor sickness :-)
    Tinned fruit and custard. It should be available on prescription.
    Stovies, pickled beetroot and cold roast lamb for me.
    Mince and tatties, with or without skirlie.
    *hungry*
    Tuna, eggs and grapefruit juice. Plus plenty of rest and sleep.

    Folk who “work through” illness are either idiots or so poor they have no choice. It is catastrophic for body and mind in the long run.
    Grapefruit juice is weirdly incompatible with almost all prescription medication.

    Unconnectedly I like everything about Sicily. Palermo rocks
    Unfortunately we’re giving Sicily a miss this year. It has been a good run, but we’re giving Cyprus a go.

    If you drink grapefruit juice, you don’t need any other medication.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,821

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    I thought Sarwar's attack at FMQs this week was absolutely spot on. After 15 years in government and 8 years as FM when are you going to stop behaving like the opposition and start behaving like a government? Scotland's fundamental problem summed up in a single sentence. It's a while since we have heard that sort of sharpness from any of the opposition parties in Scotland.
  • DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    I thought Sarwar's attack at FMQs this week was absolutely spot on. After 15 years in government and 8 years as FM when are you going to stop behaving like the opposition and start behaving like a government? Scotland's fundamental problem summed up in a single sentence. It's a while since we have heard that sort of sharpness from any of the opposition parties in Scotland.
    Labour's route back to Scotland was always to take on the SNP, Blair has been saying this for year. Under Corbyn they seemed to give up towards the end.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:



    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Positive covid test this morning - it's finally caught up with me. Feel like sh*t too.

    Hey ho.

    Rest and drink lots of water. Battling through it is really not the best plan.
    Thanks David, I'll do that. Helped by the fact that Mrs P. has a bit of sympathy now that she's seen the test result she knows it's not just man flu.

    She's off to buy me a tin of Heinz Tomato Soup - nowadays a terrible ultra-processed food, no doubt, but my childhood comfort blanket for every kind of minor sickness :-)
    Tinned fruit and custard. It should be available on prescription.
    Stovies, pickled beetroot and cold roast lamb for me.
    Mince and tatties, with or without skirlie.
    *hungry*
    Tuna, eggs and grapefruit juice. Plus plenty of rest and sleep.

    Folk who “work through” illness are either idiots or so poor they have no choice. It is catastrophic for body and mind in the long run.
    Grapefruit juice is weirdly incompatible with almost all prescription medication.

    Unconnectedly I like everything about Sicily. Palermo rocks
    Unfortunately we’re giving Sicily a miss this year. It has been a good run, but we’re giving Cyprus a go.

    If you drink grapefruit juice, you don’t need any other medication.
    I am a fan of grapefruit juice too when feeling rough, and ambrosia cream rice pudding.

    Not convinced it can cure anything other than scurvy though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    LOL

    https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1537711934992162817
    Yesterday the UK sanctioned Patriarch Kirill, head of the Russian Orthodox Church

    Russian state TV's Vladimir Solovyov responded by saying that Foreign Secretary Liz Truss will now go to hell
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,961
    Totally off topic, is the X Live thing a news franchise run on a centralised basis? I'm getting repeatedly spammed on FB, almost all the links being on an anti Meghan & Harry jag, eg Gloucestershire Live. Very creepy.






  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,961
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    I thought Sarwar's attack at FMQs this week was absolutely spot on. After 15 years in government and 8 years as FM when are you going to stop behaving like the opposition and start behaving like a government? Scotland's fundamental problem summed up in a single sentence. It's a while since we have heard that sort of sharpness from any of the opposition parties in Scotland.
    Hallelujah, a convert!
    What was your previous description of him, an empty suit?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,821

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    I thought Sarwar's attack at FMQs this week was absolutely spot on. After 15 years in government and 8 years as FM when are you going to stop behaving like the opposition and start behaving like a government? Scotland's fundamental problem summed up in a single sentence. It's a while since we have heard that sort of sharpness from any of the opposition parties in Scotland.
    Labour's route back to Scotland was always to take on the SNP, Blair has been saying this for year. Under Corbyn they seemed to give up towards the end.
    SLAB seemed to think that their way back was to say that they hate the Tories. In fairness, that worked for decades up to 2010, but it was useless against the SNP. I still received leaflets at the last election in Dundee West (where the Tories keep their deposit on a good day) saying I should vote Labour to stop the Tories. The seat had something like a 10k SNP majority and Labour had nothing to say about them at all.

    Sarwar has, it seems, realised who his target is. None of the remaining Tory seats are Labour targets. All of their targets are currently held by the SNP. That is who they must fight. I wish him every success.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    I thought Sarwar's attack at FMQs this week was absolutely spot on. After 15 years in government and 8 years as FM when are you going to stop behaving like the opposition and start behaving like a government? Scotland's fundamental problem summed up in a single sentence. It's a while since we have heard that sort of sharpness from any of the opposition parties in Scotland.
    Hallelujah, a convert!
    What was your previous description of him, an empty suit?
    Toom tabbard.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    I thought Sarwar's attack at FMQs this week was absolutely spot on. After 15 years in government and 8 years as FM when are you going to stop behaving like the opposition and start behaving like a government? Scotland's fundamental problem summed up in a single sentence. It's a while since we have heard that sort of sharpness from any of the opposition parties in Scotland.
    Hallelujah, a convert!
    What was your previous description of him, an empty suit?
    Also surprises me. Ms Davidson? Half a dozen Slab leaders? And it also misses the key point - which is that the SNP is necessarily an opposition given the incomplete nature of devolution.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Labour 6 points clear on the economy. Nobody would have suggested that were possible after 2019.

    Keir Starmer has done an amazing job, whether he loses or wins, that in of itself is significant.

    Barely ahead on best PM against this PM in these circumstances? I can see why you're spamming the board with a different "positive" in each comment, but nobody neutral is remotely impressed.
    You're not remotely neutral my friend. We know you hate Keir, it's okay.
    We've never met.

    I don't hate SKS. I'm desperate for him to give me a reason to vote for him against this disgrace of an incumbent government. So far? Nothing. Trying to win by default doesn't remotely impress me. Where are the Labour policies?
    The Tories best chance of not losing the next election is that the policies required from Labour will actually be painful and unappealing if they are to be truthful. Labour's choice is: silence, costly truths or unconvincing sunlit uplands. The evidence that painful truths don't win elections is well known to Labour.

    Sadly I think Labour's stance is going to be mostly silence, with generalised uplift in the manifesto, sending all tricky matters to the department of 'comprehensive review' and 'when finances permit'.

    This is not great but I don't blame them.

  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Tremendous poll for Scottish Labour: 29%. That’s the level where SNP seats start to tumble. Partly offset of course by the Scottish Tory tumble.
    Remember, YouGov are the only pollster to correctly weight geographical subsamples.

    SNP 40%
    SLab 29%
    SCon 17%
    SLD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    oth 2%

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1727; 15-16 June 2022)
    I thought Sarwar's attack at FMQs this week was absolutely spot on. After 15 years in government and 8 years as FM when are you going to stop behaving like the opposition and start behaving like a government? Scotland's fundamental problem summed up in a single sentence. It's a while since we have heard that sort of sharpness from any of the opposition parties in Scotland.
    Labour's route back to Scotland was always to take on the SNP, Blair has been saying this for year. Under Corbyn they seemed to give up towards the end.
    SLAB seemed to think that their way back was to say that they hate the Tories. In fairness, that worked for decades up to 2010, but it was useless against the SNP. I still received leaflets at the last election in Dundee West (where the Tories keep their deposit on a good day) saying I should vote Labour to stop the Tories. The seat had something like a 10k SNP majority and Labour had nothing to say about them at all.

    Sarwar has, it seems, realised who his target is. None of the remaining Tory seats are Labour targets. All of their targets are currently held by the SNP. That is who they must fight. I wish him every success.
    They got rid of the useless Leonard thank God
This discussion has been closed.