Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum.
At the 2019 general election Unionist parties also won most votes in Scotland, as they did on the constituency vote at Holyrood last year too
Votes - not valid. Only MP numbers. Otherwise your Tory majority would be invalid. Are you seriously arguing that? If that is your artgument, then you need to start all over again.
It seems to be that none of the people who’d deny a lm independence vote really believe the polls, or they’d be saying “game on” and hoping to kill the issue like in Quebec.
That they don’t believe the polls means they think Scots might want independence but aren’t willing to “allow” it. Which is wrong.
Well, look how HYUFD is trying to make up a different excuse every time.
Next time he'll be saying No to Indy because a survey of patrons of the Louden Tavern on an Old Firm match day proves it. Like his fishery industry attitudes to Brexit survey which turned out to be a self-selected sample of a small number of skippers of only the largest vessels.
Personally I think the Tories will never grant another indyref2 now and Labour will only grant one if they need SNP confidence and supply to get into government. So you can whinge as much as you want but under the UK constitution based on Westminster sovereignty for the foreseeable future you Scottish Nationalists are stuffed
The myth that, say what you like about you, you are an unfailingly polite poster, taking a battering there
There is a difference between being firm and persistent swearing, just because I am not personally abusive or swearing frequently does not mean I am weak either
Who the fuck said anything about swearing? Dismissing a reasoned argument against you as whingeing is simply bloody discourteous. Swearing doesn't come in to it.
Long time lurker here.. aren't you the **** (beginning with a c) who effectively hounded Charles from this site?
Not sure why you are tolerated around here but you are one horrible ****.
I'll go back to lurking now.
Your claim to lovely bloke status has been assessed and found valid. Loving the courage, too
No hounding involved. Charles liked to come down here and beglamour us all with his ineffable richness and poshness and after a decade or so of that I got fed up and pointed out that rich and posh people don't usually do that. And then, anticipating his response that that's just what poor and common people think, I added (truthfully) that I know lots of his cousins and they don't go on and on and on about it, and you could know them for years without them telling you Who They Were.
Your judgment that you are incapable of contributing anything to the site is of course valid.
Let’s have the vote. But the UK govt can say no because there doesn’t seem to be an indication in current polling that independence is a “hot topic” or key.
You’ve only got to look at some of the dubious stats in the latest paper published to realise the SNP is stuck in some sort of hopeless stalemate.
I would hazard a guess that with the Tories running out of steam down here - and heading toward an electoral defeat - the SNPs job becomes somewhat more difficult after..how many years?
If we have the vote it will be 45 yes for independence 55 no like last time
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum.
At the 2019 general election Unionist parties also won most votes in Scotland, as they did on the constituency vote at Holyrood last year too
Votes - not valid. Only MP numbers. Otherwise your Tory majority would be invalid. Are you seriously arguing that? If that is your artgument, then you need to start all over again.
It seems to be that none of the people who’d deny a lm independence vote really believe the polls, or they’d be saying “game on” and hoping to kill the issue like in Quebec.
That they don’t believe the polls means they think Scots might want independence but aren’t willing to “allow” it. Which is wrong.
Well, look how HYUFD is trying to make up a different excuse every time.
Next time he'll be saying No to Indy because a survey of patrons of the Louden Tavern on an Old Firm match day proves it. Like his fishery industry attitudes to Brexit survey which turned out to be a self-selected sample of a small number of skippers of only the largest vessels.
Personally I think the Tories will never grant another indyref2 now and Labour will only grant one if they need SNP confidence and supply to get into government. So you can whinge as much as you want but under the UK constitution based on Westminster sovereignty for the foreseeable future you Scottish Nationalists are stuffed
The myth that, say what you like about you, you are an unfailingly polite poster, taking a battering there
There is a difference between being firm and persistent swearing, just because I am not personally abusive or swearing frequently does not mean I am weak either
Who the fuck said anything about swearing? Dismissing a reasoned argument against you as whingeing is simply bloody discourteous. Swearing doesn't come in to it.
Long time lurker here.. aren't you the **** (beginning with a c) who effectively hounded Charles from this site?
Not sure why you are tolerated around here but you are one horrible ****.
Let’s have the vote. But the UK govt can say no because there doesn’t seem to be an indication in current polling that independence is a “hot topic” or key.
You’ve only got to look at some of the dubious stats in the latest paper published to realise the SNP is stuck in some sort of hopeless stalemate.
I would hazard a guess that with the Tories running out of steam down here - and heading toward an electoral defeat - the SNPs job becomes somewhat more difficult after..how many years?
If we have the vote it will be 45 yes for independence 55 no like last time
I’ve no idea. But let’s have one to find out
I just can’t see a route to it happening though. No one in Westminster will take that risk - particularly after the Brexit ref
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yep, in fact not all Unionists are cowardly hypocrites, some of them while against Indy are part of the majority that think that the SG has a mandate to hold another referendum.
'Is there a mandate for IndyRef2? Evidence from the Scottish Election Study
Across the board we see that following the 2021 election, majorities in all conditions thought there was a mandate for a second referendum, whether they received the neutral prompt (55%), the SNP fell short prompt (53%) and the pro-independence parties won a majority prompt (61%).'
I personally can't see how there isn't a mandate. Those figs show how big the challenge for Sturgeon is though. 45% are so anti independence they won't even recognize she's just won an election with the Ref commitment front and centre. Then, as you say, amongst the 55% are those like David on here - unionists with a streak of liking democracy, plus who think the Ref should be soon because they'd win again and that nails it.
As for Leon's question on how her "new" focus on Sindy will affect the polls, I have no clue. What do you think?
Fairly certain it'll be more stalemate; until a roadmap with a date happens there's not much point in anyone making a leap of faith or retreating cowering into a fetal position.
What I am convinced of is that the neverendum guys don't want one because they'd have to defend their record of the last 8 years, make their case without two major foundation stones (EU membership, stability) and with no real big beasts to trumpet their cause, and that's before we get to the fat, lying, albino elephant in the room.
Yep these last few years of Westminster must surely play for Yes. It's like 2014 happened and you failed to leave and we went, "ok good, let's piss all over them now then, it'll be a right laugh!"
Always worth recalling that big beast of the Union JK Rowling's words from 2014. I daresay she'll play a part again if she can tear herself away from asking if women have penises.
"I’ve heard it said that ‘we’ve got to leave, because they’ll punish us if we don’t’, but my guess is that if we vote to stay, we will be in the heady position of the spouse who looked like walking out, but decided to give things one last go. All the major political parties are currently wooing us with offers of extra powers, keen to keep Scotland happy so that it does not hold an independence referendum every ten years and cause uncertainty and turmoil all over again. I doubt whether we will ever have been more popular, or in a better position to dictate terms, than if we vote to stay."
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum.
At the 2019 general election Unionist parties also won most votes in Scotland, as they did on the constituency vote at Holyrood last year too
Votes - not valid. Only MP numbers. Otherwise your Tory majority would be invalid. Are you seriously arguing that? If that is your artgument, then you need to start all over again.
It seems to be that none of the people who’d deny a lm independence vote really believe the polls, or they’d be saying “game on” and hoping to kill the issue like in Quebec.
That they don’t believe the polls means they think Scots might want independence but aren’t willing to “allow” it. Which is wrong.
Well, look how HYUFD is trying to make up a different excuse every time.
Next time he'll be saying No to Indy because a survey of patrons of the Louden Tavern on an Old Firm match day proves it. Like his fishery industry attitudes to Brexit survey which turned out to be a self-selected sample of a small number of skippers of only the largest vessels.
Personally I think the Tories will never grant another indyref2 now and Labour will only grant one if they need SNP confidence and supply to get into government. So you can whinge as much as you want but under the UK constitution based on Westminster sovereignty for the foreseeable future you Scottish Nationalists are stuffed
The myth that, say what you like about you, you are an unfailingly polite poster, taking a battering there
There is a difference between being firm and persistent swearing, just because I am not personally abusive or swearing frequently does not mean I am weak either
Who the fuck said anything about swearing? Dismissing a reasoned argument against you as whingeing is simply bloody discourteous. Swearing doesn't come in to it.
Long time lurker here.. aren't you the **** (beginning with a c) who effectively hounded Charles from this site?
Not sure why you are tolerated around here but you are one horrible ****.
I'll go back to lurking now.
Your claim to lovely bloke status has been assessed and found valid. Loving the courage, too
No hounding involved. Charles liked to come down here and beglamour us all with his ineffable richness and poshness and after a decade or so of that I got fed up and pointed out that rich and posh people don't usually do that. And then, anticipating his response that that's just what poor and common people think, I added (truthfully) that I know lots of his cousins and they don't go on and on and on about it, and you could know them for years without them telling you Who They Were.
Your judgment that you are incapable of contributing anything to the site is of course valid.
Anonymous person A has a pop at Anonymous B.
Anonymous person B likes to use his anonymity to get at posters who aren't anonymous.
You are a pompous toad yourself. Also, an absolutely vile ****.
As predicted by fluffy tailed me yesterday, the government could not survive flying anyone to Rwanda and then having to fly them back, as they promised the UK judges they would if the scheme is ruled illegal.
So, oh so quietly today, ALL Rwanda flights have been abandoned until the legal ruling. (Stick that on your front page Daily Mail).
They might well do so, especially if they can blame judges. Even more so if they can blame Eurojudges.
And a "we wanted to but the horrid lefty legal establishment stopped us" is a much better narrative for the government than actually trying it.
Nah. Even the Mail will leave this alone now. The Rwanda policy’s defenders have certainly melted away.
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum.
At the 2019 general election Unionist parties also won most votes in Scotland, as they did on the constituency vote at Holyrood last year too
Votes - not valid. Only MP numbers. Otherwise your Tory majority would be invalid. Are you seriously arguing that? If that is your artgument, then you need to start all over again.
It seems to be that none of the people who’d deny a lm independence vote really believe the polls, or they’d be saying “game on” and hoping to kill the issue like in Quebec.
That they don’t believe the polls means they think Scots might want independence but aren’t willing to “allow” it. Which is wrong.
Well, look how HYUFD is trying to make up a different excuse every time.
Next time he'll be saying No to Indy because a survey of patrons of the Louden Tavern on an Old Firm match day proves it. Like his fishery industry attitudes to Brexit survey which turned out to be a self-selected sample of a small number of skippers of only the largest vessels.
Personally I think the Tories will never grant another indyref2 now and Labour will only grant one if they need SNP confidence and supply to get into government. So you can whinge as much as you want but under the UK constitution based on Westminster sovereignty for the foreseeable future you Scottish Nationalists are stuffed
The myth that, say what you like about you, you are an unfailingly polite poster, taking a battering there
There is a difference between being firm and persistent swearing, just because I am not personally abusive or swearing frequently does not mean I am weak either
Who the fuck said anything about swearing? Dismissing a reasoned argument against you as whingeing is simply bloody discourteous. Swearing doesn't come in to it.
Long time lurker here.. aren't you the **** (beginning with a c) who effectively hounded Charles from this site?
Not sure why you are tolerated around here but you are one horrible ****.
I'll go back to lurking now.
If PB is a pub, @IshmaelZ is the belligerent drunk trying to pick a fight every evening. Still it gets him out of the house...
I am the most misunderstood poster on the site
Case in point: I stopped off at a Palermo cornershop on the way home for a bottle of wine. The Sicilians don't do screw tops and I am sick of excavating corks with a penknife and coat hanger so I bought the 1 litre for 1 euro 50 plastic bottle of red precisely because it had the only screw top in the place. And got a very I know an impoverished alcoholic when I see one look from the shopkeeper
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum.
At the 2019 general election Unionist parties also won most votes in Scotland, as they did on the constituency vote at Holyrood last year too
Votes - not valid. Only MP numbers. Otherwise your Tory majority would be invalid. Are you seriously arguing that? If that is your artgument, then you need to start all over again.
It seems to be that none of the people who’d deny a lm independence vote really believe the polls, or they’d be saying “game on” and hoping to kill the issue like in Quebec.
That they don’t believe the polls means they think Scots might want independence but aren’t willing to “allow” it. Which is wrong.
Well, look how HYUFD is trying to make up a different excuse every time.
Next time he'll be saying No to Indy because a survey of patrons of the Louden Tavern on an Old Firm match day proves it. Like his fishery industry attitudes to Brexit survey which turned out to be a self-selected sample of a small number of skippers of only the largest vessels.
Personally I think the Tories will never grant another indyref2 now and Labour will only grant one if they need SNP confidence and supply to get into government. So you can whinge as much as you want but under the UK constitution based on Westminster sovereignty for the foreseeable future you Scottish Nationalists are stuffed
The myth that, say what you like about you, you are an unfailingly polite poster, taking a battering there
There is a difference between being firm and persistent swearing, just because I am not personally abusive or swearing frequently does not mean I am weak either
Who the fuck said anything about swearing? Dismissing a reasoned argument against you as whingeing is simply bloody discourteous. Swearing doesn't come in to it.
Long time lurker here.. aren't you the **** (beginning with a c) who effectively hounded Charles from this site?
Not sure why you are tolerated around here but you are one horrible ****.
I'll go back to lurking now.
Your claim to lovely bloke status has been assessed and found valid. Loving the courage, too
No hounding involved. Charles liked to come down here and beglamour us all with his ineffable richness and poshness and after a decade or so of that I got fed up and pointed out that rich and posh people don't usually do that. And then, anticipating his response that that's just what poor and common people think, I added (truthfully) that I know lots of his cousins and they don't go on and on and on about it, and you could know them for years without them telling you Who They Were.
Your judgment that you are incapable of contributing anything to the site is of course valid.
Anonymous person A has a pop at Anonymous B.
Anonymous person B likes to use his anonymity to get at posters who aren't anonymous.
You are a pompous toad yourself. Also, an absolutely vile ****.
That fucking DISGUSTING infill of a beautiful bridge must be reversed (tho again there were “2 people” who thought it was fine, against 900 who did not, who are they??)
But the question is: how did this even happen? It seems to be a peculiarly British thing. A philistine disgust at beautiful things so we treat them with overt contempt. Like Scousers booing a lovely hymn
I cannot think of any advanced culture that does this, except for ones warped by political doctrine, like the church-hating states of the Soviet Union or the iconoclasts of Mao’s Cultural Revolution in China, but even they have now all wised up
Totally agreed on reversing the infill -- for me the main reason is that I don't think we should let people get away with sidestepping rules by presenting that kind of "oops, but it's done now, so here we are, let's just move on, eh?" fait accompli to society. (I agree on aesthetic and don't-prevent-railway-reinstatement grounds too.) "Whoops, this listed but expensive-to-convert building seems to have suffered a convenient arson attack" is another on similar lines.
Not sure Britain is alone in this -- Japan has some nasty examples too, where the "construction state" builds new stuff and bulldozes the old. For instance the historic Nihonbashi bridge in Tokyo currently has an expressway running over the top of it so low that the ornate iron lampposts of the old bridge have had to be carefully fitted in the gap between expressway carriageways. The original Frank Lloyd Wright designed Imperial Hotel is another -- replaced with a dull modern hotel.
Edit: Alex Kerr's _Dogs and Demons_ has a section on this sort of Japanese architectural vandalism, I think.
I have read that the Japanese regard buildings as pretty transient things with a 50 year design life so perhaps the build quality isn't great
Regular earthquakes and tsunamis will have that psychological effect on the attitude to the built environment.
Very good point
Yes, and fires, because the Japanese build in wood (which survives better in earthquakes) but wood decays quick. And burns
So much of Japanese culture comes down to this underlying factor of impernance. The haiku is all about melancholic loss and the fleeting futility of everything. All you have is the moment. The perfect taste of miso, the single perfect flower arrangement (that lasts a day), the geisha girl who begins to age the day she gets the job
The fall of the cherry blossom: look at this aircraft they built, named 'Cherry Blossom'. It had no undercarriage (and some versions had no motor, being gliders). The nose housed a large high explosive warhead. Guess the function, in 1945 ...
Lots of people don't realise how strict the rules for haiku are. It's not just the syllable count, you also have to refer to nature, and to a season of the year, and to convey a sunt lacrimae rerum kinda vibe
Call me a bigoted western hegemonist if you will, but to me that all adds up to a pile of time wasting wank. Verbal flower arranging.
Bigoted western hegemonist then, shall be thy name Ishmael
Let’s have the vote. But the UK govt can say no because there doesn’t seem to be an indication in current polling that independence is a “hot topic” or key.
You’ve only got to look at some of the dubious stats in the latest paper published to realise the SNP is stuck in some sort of hopeless stalemate.
I would hazard a guess that with the Tories running out of steam down here - and heading toward an electoral defeat - the SNPs job becomes somewhat more difficult after..how many years?
If we have the vote it will be 45 yes for independence 55 no like last time
I’ve no idea. But let’s have one to find out
I just can’t see a route to it happening though. No one in Westminster will take that risk - particularly after the Brexit ref
Please not that.
Not a referendum to "just find out".
The unwritten but sensible rule is to have a referendum to confirm what everyone knows. If you have it when the result is hovering either side of 50:50, you are setting up a world of pain.
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum.
At the 2019 general election Unionist parties also won most votes in Scotland, as they did on the constituency vote at Holyrood last year too
Votes - not valid. Only MP numbers. Otherwise your Tory majority would be invalid. Are you seriously arguing that? If that is your artgument, then you need to start all over again.
It seems to be that none of the people who’d deny a lm independence vote really believe the polls, or they’d be saying “game on” and hoping to kill the issue like in Quebec.
That they don’t believe the polls means they think Scots might want independence but aren’t willing to “allow” it. Which is wrong.
Well, look how HYUFD is trying to make up a different excuse every time.
Next time he'll be saying No to Indy because a survey of patrons of the Louden Tavern on an Old Firm match day proves it. Like his fishery industry attitudes to Brexit survey which turned out to be a self-selected sample of a small number of skippers of only the largest vessels.
Personally I think the Tories will never grant another indyref2 now and Labour will only grant one if they need SNP confidence and supply to get into government. So you can whinge as much as you want but under the UK constitution based on Westminster sovereignty for the foreseeable future you Scottish Nationalists are stuffed
The myth that, say what you like about you, you are an unfailingly polite poster, taking a battering there
There is a difference between being firm and persistent swearing, just because I am not personally abusive or swearing frequently does not mean I am weak either
Who the fuck said anything about swearing? Dismissing a reasoned argument against you as whingeing is simply bloody discourteous. Swearing doesn't come in to it.
Long time lurker here.. aren't you the **** (beginning with a c) who effectively hounded Charles from this site?
Not sure why you are tolerated around here but you are one horrible ****.
I'll go back to lurking now.
If PB is a pub, @IshmaelZ is the belligerent drunk trying to pick a fight every evening. Still it gets him out of the house...
I am the most misunderstood poster on the site
Case in point: I stopped off at a Palermo cornershop on the way home for a bottle of wine. The Sicilians don't do screw tops and I am sick of excavating corks with a penknife and coat hanger so I bought the 1 litre for 1 euro 50 plastic bottle of red precisely because it had the only screw top in the place. And got a very I know an impoverished alcoholic when I see one look from the shopkeeper
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum.
At the 2019 general election Unionist parties also won most votes in Scotland, as they did on the constituency vote at Holyrood last year too
Votes - not valid. Only MP numbers. Otherwise your Tory majority would be invalid. Are you seriously arguing that? If that is your artgument, then you need to start all over again.
It seems to be that none of the people who’d deny a lm independence vote really believe the polls, or they’d be saying “game on” and hoping to kill the issue like in Quebec.
That they don’t believe the polls means they think Scots might want independence but aren’t willing to “allow” it. Which is wrong.
Well, look how HYUFD is trying to make up a different excuse every time.
Next time he'll be saying No to Indy because a survey of patrons of the Louden Tavern on an Old Firm match day proves it. Like his fishery industry attitudes to Brexit survey which turned out to be a self-selected sample of a small number of skippers of only the largest vessels.
Personally I think the Tories will never grant another indyref2 now and Labour will only grant one if they need SNP confidence and supply to get into government. So you can whinge as much as you want but under the UK constitution based on Westminster sovereignty for the foreseeable future you Scottish Nationalists are stuffed
The myth that, say what you like about you, you are an unfailingly polite poster, taking a battering there
There is a difference between being firm and persistent swearing, just because I am not personally abusive or swearing frequently does not mean I am weak either
Who the fuck said anything about swearing? Dismissing a reasoned argument against you as whingeing is simply bloody discourteous. Swearing doesn't come in to it.
Long time lurker here.. aren't you the **** (beginning with a c) who effectively hounded Charles from this site?
Not sure why you are tolerated around here but you are one horrible ****.
I'll go back to lurking now.
If PB is a pub, @IshmaelZ is the belligerent drunk trying to pick a fight every evening. Still it gets him out of the house...
I am the most misunderstood poster on the site
Case in point: I stopped off at a Palermo cornershop on the way home for a bottle of wine. The Sicilians don't do screw tops and I am sick of excavating corks with a penknife and coat hanger so I bought the 1 litre for 1 euro 50 plastic bottle of red precisely because it had the only screw top in the place. And got a very I know an impoverished alcoholic when I see one look from the shopkeeper
It's not at all bad either
A really, really poor man's SeanT.
My mistake, this don’t sound like Charles.
Is this the real SeanT in yet another masterful disguise?
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum.
At the 2019 general election Unionist parties also won most votes in Scotland, as they did on the constituency vote at Holyrood last year too
Votes - not valid. Only MP numbers. Otherwise your Tory majority would be invalid. Are you seriously arguing that? If that is your artgument, then you need to start all over again.
It seems to be that none of the people who’d deny a lm independence vote really believe the polls, or they’d be saying “game on” and hoping to kill the issue like in Quebec.
That they don’t believe the polls means they think Scots might want independence but aren’t willing to “allow” it. Which is wrong.
Well, look how HYUFD is trying to make up a different excuse every time.
Next time he'll be saying No to Indy because a survey of patrons of the Louden Tavern on an Old Firm match day proves it. Like his fishery industry attitudes to Brexit survey which turned out to be a self-selected sample of a small number of skippers of only the largest vessels.
Personally I think the Tories will never grant another indyref2 now and Labour will only grant one if they need SNP confidence and supply to get into government. So you can whinge as much as you want but under the UK constitution based on Westminster sovereignty for the foreseeable future you Scottish Nationalists are stuffed
The myth that, say what you like about you, you are an unfailingly polite poster, taking a battering there
There is a difference between being firm and persistent swearing, just because I am not personally abusive or swearing frequently does not mean I am weak either
Who the fuck said anything about swearing? Dismissing a reasoned argument against you as whingeing is simply bloody discourteous. Swearing doesn't come in to it.
Long time lurker here.. aren't you the **** (beginning with a c) who effectively hounded Charles from this site?
Not sure why you are tolerated around here but you are one horrible ****.
I'll go back to lurking now.
If PB is a pub, @IshmaelZ is the belligerent drunk trying to pick a fight every evening. Still it gets him out of the house...
I am the most misunderstood poster on the site
Case in point: I stopped off at a Palermo cornershop on the way home for a bottle of wine. The Sicilians don't do screw tops and I am sick of excavating corks with a penknife and coat hanger so I bought the 1 litre for 1 euro 50 plastic bottle of red precisely because it had the only screw top in the place. And got a very I know an impoverished alcoholic when I see one look from the shopkeeper
It's not at all bad either
A really, really poor man's SeanT.
Honestly love, this is not your forte. Try mumsnet.
Anyway, greetings from Yeghegnadzor, Armenia where I have just slept, on and off, for 15 hours
Quite odd. The accumulated sleep deficit of travel, I guess. Feel fine now. Unsurprisingly refreshed
Back in November 1999 during my Armenia trip I arrived in Yegheghnadzor having travelled in a dodgy taxi over the high plateau from Martuni on lake Sevan, where I’d had a really quite nasty stomach bug. I too slept for a similar amount of time.
I’d fallen in with an American peace corps volunteer in Martuni and slept on his floor after a day of the squits, but the evening, first with some teenage kids we got talking to in a shack on the outskirts and later in a highly kitsch mafiosi restaurant with Armienski conac finished me off. Was retching the whole next day.
I’m sure the place is better presented now but that whole central and Southern part of Armenia was a juxtaposition of wild and beautiful scenery, and ugly as hell settlements that had barely emerged from communism.
PB is incredibly well travelled. Who woulda thunk another PB-er has already been to “Yegheghnadzor”, southern Armenia. I am determined to go somewhere, on this trip, that no PB-er has ever been
FYI, Armenia has not changed, one jot. Alarmingly ugly towns of grey concrete and derelict car yards, surrounded by rugged sometimes magnificent mountainscapes, dotted with ancient monasteries
The “tourist” industry consists of the odd minibus with Russians, and nothing else at all
The upside of being the only tourist is that everyone seems genuinely pleased to see you, quietly puzzled by your presence, shyly eager to practise their English, and all round amiable, warm and welcoming, without going overboard and intruding.
They are also highly tolerant of slightly drunken driving
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum.
At the 2019 general election Unionist parties also won most votes in Scotland, as they did on the constituency vote at Holyrood last year too
Votes - not valid. Only MP numbers. Otherwise your Tory majority would be invalid. Are you seriously arguing that? If that is your artgument, then you need to start all over again.
It seems to be that none of the people who’d deny a lm independence vote really believe the polls, or they’d be saying “game on” and hoping to kill the issue like in Quebec.
That they don’t believe the polls means they think Scots might want independence but aren’t willing to “allow” it. Which is wrong.
Well, look how HYUFD is trying to make up a different excuse every time.
Next time he'll be saying No to Indy because a survey of patrons of the Louden Tavern on an Old Firm match day proves it. Like his fishery industry attitudes to Brexit survey which turned out to be a self-selected sample of a small number of skippers of only the largest vessels.
Personally I think the Tories will never grant another indyref2 now and Labour will only grant one if they need SNP confidence and supply to get into government. So you can whinge as much as you want but under the UK constitution based on Westminster sovereignty for the foreseeable future you Scottish Nationalists are stuffed
The myth that, say what you like about you, you are an unfailingly polite poster, taking a battering there
There is a difference between being firm and persistent swearing, just because I am not personally abusive or swearing frequently does not mean I am weak either
Who the fuck said anything about swearing? Dismissing a reasoned argument against you as whingeing is simply bloody discourteous. Swearing doesn't come in to it.
Long time lurker here.. aren't you the **** (beginning with a c) who effectively hounded Charles from this site?
Not sure why you are tolerated around here but you are one horrible ****.
I'll go back to lurking now.
If PB is a pub, @IshmaelZ is the belligerent drunk trying to pick a fight every evening. Still it gets him out of the house...
I am the most misunderstood poster on the site
Case in point: I stopped off at a Palermo cornershop on the way home for a bottle of wine. The Sicilians don't do screw tops and I am sick of excavating corks with a penknife and coat hanger so I bought the 1 litre for 1 euro 50 plastic bottle of red precisely because it had the only screw top in the place. And got a very I know an impoverished alcoholic when I see one look from the shopkeeper
It's not at all bad either
A really, really poor man's SeanT.
Honestly love, this is not your forte. Try mumsnet.
Now fuck off.
You've actually spent many months mimicking another poster's style to try and garner internet cred from a bunch of anons and to try and hide the fact that you are a weird and very angry man. Sad sad.
You also have no response because I am mimicking your cowardly snake-like style. Awesome. You vile ****.
You're the one who should fuck off.. the site would be so much better for it.
Let’s have the vote. But the UK govt can say no because there doesn’t seem to be an indication in current polling that independence is a “hot topic” or key.
You’ve only got to look at some of the dubious stats in the latest paper published to realise the SNP is stuck in some sort of hopeless stalemate.
I would hazard a guess that with the Tories running out of steam down here - and heading toward an electoral defeat - the SNPs job becomes somewhat more difficult after..how many years?
If we have the vote it will be 45 yes for independence 55 no like last time
I’ve no idea. But let’s have one to find out
I just can’t see a route to it happening though. No one in Westminster will take that risk - particularly after the Brexit ref
Please not that.
Not a referendum to "just find out".
The unwritten but sensible rule is to have a referendum to confirm what everyone knows. If you have it when the result is hovering either side of 50:50, you are setting up a world of pain.
As we've seen.
For a start, whenever the generation is over and we have to have a second Scottish referendum, we absolutely need to learn the lessons of Brexit and determine an exact prospectus first.
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum
So? We can vote for what we want and if you limit these things then something has to give. There is this thijng called 'progress' and 'change'. If Henry VIII thought like you do, you would be telling us all about the indisputable supremacy of the Roman Church and the wisdom of the pope.
Both you and HYUFD have a point.
HYUFD is correct in stating that, insofar as I'm aware, the constitution is reserved to Westminster and the Scottish Parliament - as a limited body, which derives what authority it has from Westminster - can't legislate to do what it likes in this regard, any more than it can vote to sign up to the European Economic Area, make Andy Murray the President or declare war on Rutland. These issues are outside of its current competence.
What it can do, however, assuming that it asks Westminster to give it what it wants and is rebuffed, is then to turn to its own people to demand change through protest. If enough of the Scottish people demand a vote then Westminster may back down; if support for secession becomes overwhelming then the Scottish Parliament could also attempt UDI, i.e. initiate a revolution and dare the British Government to try to stop it. Thus, both sides have recourse.
What the Scottish Government cannot do is claim that its own authority is sufficient to do whatever it likes, without reference to anyone else. The law of the UK, of which it is a subsidiary part, doesn't give it that right; the Scottish people, when given the opportunity to declare sovereignty, also refused to give it that right; and there's presently no evidence of which I am aware to suggest that a settled majority in Scotland wants to have a further tilt at independence. Like it or not, that is how things appear to stand at present.
You're, er, forgetting the last two parliamentary elections and the mandate for a referendum within the manifestoes. It's an important distinction - compare, for instance the criterion on whether a Westminster bill can or can't be rejected by the Lords, which hinges in part on whether it is in the manifesto.
Did everybody who voted for the SNP in recent electoral cycles want another vote on independence though? Almost certainly not. Indeed, is there a burning desire sweeping the land to have this argument out again, this year or next? You tell me.
Don't want to speak for another, but to answer your question, I don't think everyone who voted for the SNP want another vote on independence. But the overwhelming majority would have voted either knowing that the SNP specifically asked people to give them a mandate to hold one, or they should have known.
Ditto the question of burning desire to hold a poll. I don't detect one but, when the question is framed as Scotland having the right to decide it's own future, independent or not, the answer tends to be yes. Combine these two things, and the Government ends up in a tricky position really quickly if they start throwing their weight around.
It is perfectly normal in politics (and in religion) to want something to occur but only in the future and truly believe that this means you want it to occur. The Scots are suffering from a bout of this at the moment about both polling and independence. In theology it might be called 'eschatological aspiration'. In politics it is magnificent opportunism as it looks moral but keeps the Bank of England and the Treasury as suppliers of last resort.
And of this politico-religion Nicola Sturgeon is the true and Salmond the false prophet.
What theological description would you apply to parties and their supporters who have the power to alter the situation either by permitting a referendum or revising the BoE and Treasury’s responsibilities towards Scotland, but would rather squat and complain about ungrateful Jocks?
Ye gods. Glorious hot late spring night and nothing but invective on PB. Get out of the house. Go to a bar. See people!
Ah, but it was too hot to be going out earlier, and now it's too late. Some of us have to go to work early in the morning. Or we're too poor to go out gallivanting. Or we can't be bothered. Or we're too worn out. Or all of those things.
I'm collapsed in a heap and keeping myself distracted until it feels comfortable enough for bed. Sticking around here serves that purpose reasonably well.
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum.
At the 2019 general election Unionist parties also won most votes in Scotland, as they did on the constituency vote at Holyrood last year too
Votes - not valid. Only MP numbers. Otherwise your Tory majority would be invalid. Are you seriously arguing that? If that is your artgument, then you need to start all over again.
It seems to be that none of the people who’d deny a lm independence vote really believe the polls, or they’d be saying “game on” and hoping to kill the issue like in Quebec.
That they don’t believe the polls means they think Scots might want independence but aren’t willing to “allow” it. Which is wrong.
Well, look how HYUFD is trying to make up a different excuse every time.
Next time he'll be saying No to Indy because a survey of patrons of the Louden Tavern on an Old Firm match day proves it. Like his fishery industry attitudes to Brexit survey which turned out to be a self-selected sample of a small number of skippers of only the largest vessels.
Personally I think the Tories will never grant another indyref2 now and Labour will only grant one if they need SNP confidence and supply to get into government. So you can whinge as much as you want but under the UK constitution based on Westminster sovereignty for the foreseeable future you Scottish Nationalists are stuffed
The myth that, say what you like about you, you are an unfailingly polite poster, taking a battering there
There is a difference between being firm and persistent swearing, just because I am not personally abusive or swearing frequently does not mean I am weak either
Who the fuck said anything about swearing? Dismissing a reasoned argument against you as whingeing is simply bloody discourteous. Swearing doesn't come in to it.
Long time lurker here.. aren't you the **** (beginning with a c) who effectively hounded Charles from this site?
Not sure why you are tolerated around here but you are one horrible ****.
I'll go back to lurking now.
If PB is a pub, @IshmaelZ is the belligerent drunk trying to pick a fight every evening. Still it gets him out of the house...
I am the most misunderstood poster on the site
Case in point: I stopped off at a Palermo cornershop on the way home for a bottle of wine. The Sicilians don't do screw tops and I am sick of excavating corks with a penknife and coat hanger so I bought the 1 litre for 1 euro 50 plastic bottle of red precisely because it had the only screw top in the place. And got a very I know an impoverished alcoholic when I see one look from the shopkeeper
It's not at all bad either
A really, really poor man's SeanT.
Honestly love, this is not your forte. Try mumsnet.
Now fuck off.
You've actually spent many months mimicking another poster's style to try and garner internet cred from a bunch of anons and to try and hide the fact that you are a weird and very angry man. Sad sad.
You also have no response because I am mimicking your cowardly snake-like style. Awesome. You vile ****.
You're the one who should fuck off.. the site would be so much better for it.
Let’s have the vote. But the UK govt can say no because there doesn’t seem to be an indication in current polling that independence is a “hot topic” or key.
You’ve only got to look at some of the dubious stats in the latest paper published to realise the SNP is stuck in some sort of hopeless stalemate.
I would hazard a guess that with the Tories running out of steam down here - and heading toward an electoral defeat - the SNPs job becomes somewhat more difficult after..how many years?
If we have the vote it will be 45 yes for independence 55 no like last time
I’ve no idea. But let’s have one to find out
I just can’t see a route to it happening though. No one in Westminster will take that risk - particularly after the Brexit ref
Please not that.
Not a referendum to "just find out".
The unwritten but sensible rule is to have a referendum to confirm what everyone knows. If you have it when the result is hovering either side of 50:50, you are setting up a world of pain.
As we've seen.
For a start, whenever the generation is over and we have to have a second Scottish referendum, we absolutely need to learn the lessons of Brexit and determine an exact prospectus first.
That could only be achieved through pre-negotiation of the entire divorce settlement. Fascinated as to how that would work. Or not.
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum.
At the 2019 general election Unionist parties also won most votes in Scotland, as they did on the constituency vote at Holyrood last year too
Votes - not valid. Only MP numbers. Otherwise your Tory majority would be invalid. Are you seriously arguing that? If that is your artgument, then you need to start all over again.
It seems to be that none of the people who’d deny a lm independence vote really believe the polls, or they’d be saying “game on” and hoping to kill the issue like in Quebec.
That they don’t believe the polls means they think Scots might want independence but aren’t willing to “allow” it. Which is wrong.
Well, look how HYUFD is trying to make up a different excuse every time.
Next time he'll be saying No to Indy because a survey of patrons of the Louden Tavern on an Old Firm match day proves it. Like his fishery industry attitudes to Brexit survey which turned out to be a self-selected sample of a small number of skippers of only the largest vessels.
Personally I think the Tories will never grant another indyref2 now and Labour will only grant one if they need SNP confidence and supply to get into government. So you can whinge as much as you want but under the UK constitution based on Westminster sovereignty for the foreseeable future you Scottish Nationalists are stuffed
The myth that, say what you like about you, you are an unfailingly polite poster, taking a battering there
There is a difference between being firm and persistent swearing, just because I am not personally abusive or swearing frequently does not mean I am weak either
Who the fuck said anything about swearing? Dismissing a reasoned argument against you as whingeing is simply bloody discourteous. Swearing doesn't come in to it.
Long time lurker here.. aren't you the **** (beginning with a c) who effectively hounded Charles from this site?
Not sure why you are tolerated around here but you are one horrible ****.
I'll go back to lurking now.
If PB is a pub, @IshmaelZ is the belligerent drunk trying to pick a fight every evening. Still it gets him out of the house...
I am the most misunderstood poster on the site
Case in point: I stopped off at a Palermo cornershop on the way home for a bottle of wine. The Sicilians don't do screw tops and I am sick of excavating corks with a penknife and coat hanger so I bought the 1 litre for 1 euro 50 plastic bottle of red precisely because it had the only screw top in the place. And got a very I know an impoverished alcoholic when I see one look from the shopkeeper
It's not at all bad either
A really, really poor man's SeanT.
Honestly love, this is not your forte. Try mumsnet.
Now fuck off.
You've actually spent many months mimicking another poster's style to try and garner internet cred from a bunch of anons and to try and hide the fact that you are a weird and very angry man. Sad sad.
You also have no response because I am mimicking your cowardly snake-like style. Awesome. You vile ****.
You're the one who should fuck off.. the site would be so much better for it.
Now unless there is anything else, I'll be off.
See above.
Tee hee.
Old heads of this site.. love your work and you are usually good at policing yourselves.. but this creature is getting a free pass. Wise up.
Ye gods. Glorious hot late spring night and nothing but invective on PB. Get out of the house. Go to a bar. See people!
Ah, but it was too hot to be going out earlier, and now it's too late. Some of us have to go to work early in the morning. Or we're too poor to go out gallivanting. Or we can't be bothered. Or we're too worn out. Or all of those things.
I'm collapsed in a heap and keeping myself distracted until it feels comfortable enough for bed. Sticking around here serves that purpose reasonably well.
Benefit of living in the frozen north. I've just slipped a jumper on...
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum.
At the 2019 general election Unionist parties also won most votes in Scotland, as they did on the constituency vote at Holyrood last year too
Votes - not valid. Only MP numbers. Otherwise your Tory majority would be invalid. Are you seriously arguing that? If that is your artgument, then you need to start all over again.
It seems to be that none of the people who’d deny a lm independence vote really believe the polls, or they’d be saying “game on” and hoping to kill the issue like in Quebec.
That they don’t believe the polls means they think Scots might want independence but aren’t willing to “allow” it. Which is wrong.
Well, look how HYUFD is trying to make up a different excuse every time.
Next time he'll be saying No to Indy because a survey of patrons of the Louden Tavern on an Old Firm match day proves it. Like his fishery industry attitudes to Brexit survey which turned out to be a self-selected sample of a small number of skippers of only the largest vessels.
Personally I think the Tories will never grant another indyref2 now and Labour will only grant one if they need SNP confidence and supply to get into government. So you can whinge as much as you want but under the UK constitution based on Westminster sovereignty for the foreseeable future you Scottish Nationalists are stuffed
The myth that, say what you like about you, you are an unfailingly polite poster, taking a battering there
There is a difference between being firm and persistent swearing, just because I am not personally abusive or swearing frequently does not mean I am weak either
Who the fuck said anything about swearing? Dismissing a reasoned argument against you as whingeing is simply bloody discourteous. Swearing doesn't come in to it.
Long time lurker here.. aren't you the **** (beginning with a c) who effectively hounded Charles from this site?
Not sure why you are tolerated around here but you are one horrible ****.
I'll go back to lurking now.
Your claim to lovely bloke status has been assessed and found valid. Loving the courage, too
No hounding involved. Charles liked to come down here and beglamour us all with his ineffable richness and poshness and after a decade or so of that I got fed up and pointed out that rich and posh people don't usually do that. And then, anticipating his response that that's just what poor and common people think, I added (truthfully) that I know lots of his cousins and they don't go on and on and on about it, and you could know them for years without them telling you Who They Were.
Your judgment that you are incapable of contributing anything to the site is of course valid.
I recall you saying that you would tell his cousins what he was posting on here (which was often mildly indiscreet about who he had met and what they had said).
Ye gods. Glorious hot late spring night and nothing but invective on PB. Get out of the house. Go to a bar. See people!
Ah, but it was too hot to be going out earlier, and now it's too late. Some of us have to go to work early in the morning. Or we're too poor to go out gallivanting. Or we can't be bothered. Or we're too worn out. Or all of those things.
I'm collapsed in a heap and keeping myself distracted until it feels comfortable enough for bed. Sticking around here serves that purpose reasonably well.
Benefit of living in the frozen north. I've just slipped a jumper on...
Palermo due to be just 1 degree hotter than Tavistock tomorrow. Otoh incredibly effective air conditioning in Palermo...
Let’s have the vote. But the UK govt can say no because there doesn’t seem to be an indication in current polling that independence is a “hot topic” or key.
You’ve only got to look at some of the dubious stats in the latest paper published to realise the SNP is stuck in some sort of hopeless stalemate.
I would hazard a guess that with the Tories running out of steam down here - and heading toward an electoral defeat - the SNPs job becomes somewhat more difficult after..how many years?
If we have the vote it will be 45 yes for independence 55 no like last time
I’ve no idea. But let’s have one to find out
I just can’t see a route to it happening though. No one in Westminster will take that risk - particularly after the Brexit ref
Please not that.
Not a referendum to "just find out".
The unwritten but sensible rule is to have a referendum to confirm what everyone knows. If you have it when the result is hovering either side of 50:50, you are setting up a world of pain.
As we've seen.
For a start, whenever the generation is over and we have to have a second Scottish referendum, we absolutely need to learn the lessons of Brexit and determine an exact prospectus first.
That could only be achieved through pre-negotiation of the entire divorce settlement. Fascinated as to how that would work. Or not.
Well, indeed. It would force the SNP to make decisions...
Lib Dems and Green down to more realistic levels vs the last R&W outlier. LLG 58%, still at the higher end of recent range
SNP down 2, from 5, to 3
Of course in these UK polls the Nats’ sample is too small for any polling to reliable
But it reminds us that the first Scotland-wide poll after Sturgeon’s indyref2 commitment will be WELL worth watching
Polls show that a large majority of Scots do NO want another vote in 2023. Most don’t want one for several years, and a large chunk - 40 - never
How will Sturgeon’s new stance affect the Nats? Could go either way. It might rally Scots to her cause: OK she really means it this time, let’s follow her Over The Top, finally she’s going for it, etc
Alternatively she will be annoying people who are vaguely in favour of YES but do not want the stress and distraction of a referendum right now
Which way will it go? I do expect some movement
Not a matter of "finally" going for it. Post Brexit and Covid she ran on another Sindy Ref, got elected, is now seeking to honour the pledge.
Yet 71% of Scots do not want an indyref2 this year and 59% do not want one next year and only 42% want one in the next 5 years. So the UK government will continue to refuse one
A majority of votes, of seats at Holyrood, and of MPs in Scottish constituencies, all with it in the manifesto, remember?
Yet you pick some poll at random rather than respect democracy.
And Holyrood was only created by the Scotland Act 1998 which reserved the future of the union to Westminster, including of course whether and when to allow any independence referendum.
At the 2019 general election Unionist parties also won most votes in Scotland, as they did on the constituency vote at Holyrood last year too
Votes - not valid. Only MP numbers. Otherwise your Tory majority would be invalid. Are you seriously arguing that? If that is your artgument, then you need to start all over again.
It seems to be that none of the people who’d deny a lm independence vote really believe the polls, or they’d be saying “game on” and hoping to kill the issue like in Quebec.
That they don’t believe the polls means they think Scots might want independence but aren’t willing to “allow” it. Which is wrong.
Well, look how HYUFD is trying to make up a different excuse every time.
Next time he'll be saying No to Indy because a survey of patrons of the Louden Tavern on an Old Firm match day proves it. Like his fishery industry attitudes to Brexit survey which turned out to be a self-selected sample of a small number of skippers of only the largest vessels.
Personally I think the Tories will never grant another indyref2 now and Labour will only grant one if they need SNP confidence and supply to get into government. So you can whinge as much as you want but under the UK constitution based on Westminster sovereignty for the foreseeable future you Scottish Nationalists are stuffed
The myth that, say what you like about you, you are an unfailingly polite poster, taking a battering there
There is a difference between being firm and persistent swearing, just because I am not personally abusive or swearing frequently does not mean I am weak either
Who the fuck said anything about swearing? Dismissing a reasoned argument against you as whingeing is simply bloody discourteous. Swearing doesn't come in to it.
Long time lurker here.. aren't you the **** (beginning with a c) who effectively hounded Charles from this site?
Not sure why you are tolerated around here but you are one horrible ****.
I'll go back to lurking now.
Your claim to lovely bloke status has been assessed and found valid. Loving the courage, too
No hounding involved. Charles liked to come down here and beglamour us all with his ineffable richness and poshness and after a decade or so of that I got fed up and pointed out that rich and posh people don't usually do that. And then, anticipating his response that that's just what poor and common people think, I added (truthfully) that I know lots of his cousins and they don't go on and on and on about it, and you could know them for years without them telling you Who They Were.
Your judgment that you are incapable of contributing anything to the site is of course valid.
I recall you saying that you would tell his cousins what he was posting on here (which was often mildly indiscreet about who he had met and what they had said).
That’s why he left.
I absolutely did not say that, and what an unpleasant smear from you. You claim I said it, up to you to find the evidence I said it (which you won't) or apologise profusely. I have never and would never do any such thing.
Anyway, greetings from Yeghegnadzor, Armenia where I have just slept, on and off, for 15 hours
Quite odd. The accumulated sleep deficit of travel, I guess. Feel fine now. Unsurprisingly refreshed
Back in November 1999 during my Armenia trip I arrived in Yegheghnadzor having travelled in a dodgy taxi over the high plateau from Martuni on lake Sevan, where I’d had a really quite nasty stomach bug. I too slept for a similar amount of time.
I’d fallen in with an American peace corps volunteer in Martuni and slept on his floor after a day of the squits, but the evening, first with some teenage kids we got talking to in a shack on the outskirts and later in a highly kitsch mafiosi restaurant with Armienski conac finished me off. Was retching the whole next day.
I’m sure the place is better presented now but that whole central and Southern part of Armenia was a juxtaposition of wild and beautiful scenery, and ugly as hell settlements that had barely emerged from communism.
PB is incredibly well travelled. Who woulda thunk another PB-er has already been to “Yegheghnadzor”, southern Armenia. I am determined to go somewhere, on this trip, that no PB-er has ever been
FYI, Armenia has not changed, one jot. Alarmingly ugly towns of grey concrete and derelict car yards, surrounded by rugged sometimes magnificent mountainscapes, dotted with ancient monasteries
The “tourist” industry consists of the odd minibus with Russians, and nothing else at all
The upside of being the only tourist is that everyone seems genuinely pleased to see you, quietly puzzled by your presence, shyly eager to practise their English, and all round amiable, warm and welcoming, without going overboard and intruding.
They are also highly tolerant of slightly drunken driving
I wonder if there's anyone on PB who did more travelling during the 80s and 90s than since then?
Ye gods. Glorious hot late spring night and nothing but invective on PB. Get out of the house. Go to a bar. See people!
Summer night surely, the test matches have started...
Days get shorter next week...
Wax and wane wheel of year, climb your path to stand so still
It actually stands still for about a week?
Going to palermo cathedral tomorrow where apparently there's a tiny hole in the roof which projects an image of the sun on a line on the floor so you can tell where you are in the year, when to expect Easter etc
Ye gods. Glorious hot late spring night and nothing but invective on PB. Get out of the house. Go to a bar. See people!
Summer night surely, the test matches have started...
Days get shorter next week...
Wax and wane wheel of year, climb your path to stand so still
It actually stands still for about a week?
Going to palermo cathedral tomorrow where apparently there's a tiny hole in the roof which projects an image of the sun on a line on the floor so you can tell where you are in the year, when to expect Easter etc
Cool!
Edit. WAIT. It can’t predict Easter, that isn’t decided by sun or moons?
I've tested positive today for COVID. So have both my parents (I haven't seen them recently). None of us have had it before. It may be due to jab immunity wearing off.
Ye gods. Glorious hot late spring night and nothing but invective on PB. Get out of the house. Go to a bar. See people!
Summer night surely, the test matches have started...
Days get shorter next week...
Wax and wane wheel of year, climb your path to stand so still
It actually stands still for about a week?
Going to palermo cathedral tomorrow where apparently there's a tiny hole in the roof which projects an image of the sun on a line on the floor so you can tell where you are in the year, when to expect Easter etc
Cool!
Edit. WAIT. It can’t predict Easter, that isn’t decided by sun or moons?
Ye gods. Glorious hot late spring night and nothing but invective on PB. Get out of the house. Go to a bar. See people!
Summer night surely, the test matches have started...
Days get shorter next week...
Wax and wane wheel of year, climb your path to stand so still
It actually stands still for about a week?
Going to palermo cathedral tomorrow where apparently there's a tiny hole in the roof which projects an image of the sun on a line on the floor so you can tell where you are in the year, when to expect Easter etc
Cool!
Edit. WAIT. It can’t predict Easter, that isn’t decided by sun or moons?
That fucking DISGUSTING infill of a beautiful bridge must be reversed (tho again there were “2 people” who thought it was fine, against 900 who did not, who are they??)
But the question is: how did this even happen? It seems to be a peculiarly British thing. A philistine disgust at beautiful things so we treat them with overt contempt. Like Scousers booing a lovely hymn
I cannot think of any advanced culture that does this, except for ones warped by political doctrine, like the church-hating states of the Soviet Union or the iconoclasts of Mao’s Cultural Revolution in China, but even they have now all wised up
Totally agreed on reversing the infill -- for me the main reason is that I don't think we should let people get away with sidestepping rules by presenting that kind of "oops, but it's done now, so here we are, let's just move on, eh?" fait accompli to society. (I agree on aesthetic and don't-prevent-railway-reinstatement grounds too.) "Whoops, this listed but expensive-to-convert building seems to have suffered a convenient arson attack" is another on similar lines.
Not sure Britain is alone in this -- Japan has some nasty examples too, where the "construction state" builds new stuff and bulldozes the old. For instance the historic Nihonbashi bridge in Tokyo currently has an expressway running over the top of it so low that the ornate iron lampposts of the old bridge have had to be carefully fitted in the gap between expressway carriageways. The original Frank Lloyd Wright designed Imperial Hotel is another -- replaced with a dull modern hotel.
Edit: Alex Kerr's _Dogs and Demons_ has a section on this sort of Japanese architectural vandalism, I think.
I have read that the Japanese regard buildings as pretty transient things with a 50 year design life so perhaps the build quality isn't great
Regular earthquakes and tsunamis will have that psychological effect on the attitude to the built environment.
Very good point
Yes, and fires, because the Japanese build in wood (which survives better in earthquakes) but wood decays quick. And burns
So much of Japanese culture comes down to this underlying factor of impernance. The haiku is all about melancholic loss and the fleeting futility of everything. All you have is the moment. The perfect taste of miso, the single perfect flower arrangement (that lasts a day), the geisha girl who begins to age the day she gets the job
The fall of the cherry blossom: look at this aircraft they built, named 'Cherry Blossom'. It had no undercarriage (and some versions had no motor, being gliders). The nose housed a large high explosive warhead. Guess the function, in 1945 ...
I've tested positive today for COVID. So have both my parents (I haven't seen them recently). None of us have had it before. It may be due to jab immunity wearing off.
Whisper it quietly but I am not overly convinced the vaccine is very effective at stopping the current Covid variants.
It might reduce the severity when you do catch it of course.
I've tested positive today for COVID. So have both my parents (I haven't seen them recently). None of us have had it before. It may be due to jab immunity wearing off.
Whisper it quietly but I am not overly convinced the vaccine is very effective at stopping the current Covid variants.
It might reduce the severity when you do catch it of course.
No, vaccine escape is much higher with Omicron, and it seems Omicron doesn't generate much immunity either.
Finally, did the Trafford Centre branch of Manchester's Metrolink tram network more than two years after it opened, which incidentally was just days before the first lockdown in March 2020!
Also, my first long distance train journey since March 2020. Quick out and back from London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly, roughly two hours each way, plus about half an hour each way on the tram.
Until the Blackpool Tram extension to Blackpool North station opens later this year, I've now traversed all of the UK's light rail and/or Metro networks
I've tested positive today for COVID. So have both my parents (I haven't seen them recently). None of us have had it before. It may be due to jab immunity wearing off.
Whisper it quietly but I am not overly convinced the vaccine is very effective at stopping the current Covid variants.
It might reduce the severity when you do catch it of course.
Yes, reduces by a lot the chances of hospital or worse. That’s the big benefit.
Anyway, greetings from Yeghegnadzor, Armenia where I have just slept, on and off, for 15 hours
Quite odd. The accumulated sleep deficit of travel, I guess. Feel fine now. Unsurprisingly refreshed
Back in November 1999 during my Armenia trip I arrived in Yegheghnadzor having travelled in a dodgy taxi over the high plateau from Martuni on lake Sevan, where I’d had a really quite nasty stomach bug. I too slept for a similar amount of time.
I’d fallen in with an American peace corps volunteer in Martuni and slept on his floor after a day of the squits, but the evening, first with some teenage kids we got talking to in a shack on the outskirts and later in a highly kitsch mafiosi restaurant with Armienski conac finished me off. Was retching the whole next day.
I’m sure the place is better presented now but that whole central and Southern part of Armenia was a juxtaposition of wild and beautiful scenery, and ugly as hell settlements that had barely emerged from communism.
PB is incredibly well travelled. Who woulda thunk another PB-er has already been to “Yegheghnadzor”, southern Armenia. I am determined to go somewhere, on this trip, that no PB-er has ever been
FYI, Armenia has not changed, one jot. Alarmingly ugly towns of grey concrete and derelict car yards, surrounded by rugged sometimes magnificent mountainscapes, dotted with ancient monasteries
The “tourist” industry consists of the odd minibus with Russians, and nothing else at all
The upside of being the only tourist is that everyone seems genuinely pleased to see you, quietly puzzled by your presence, shyly eager to practise their English, and all round amiable, warm and welcoming, without going overboard and intruding.
They are also highly tolerant of slightly drunken driving
I wonder if there's anyone on PB who did more travelling during the 80s and 90s than since then?
I certainly did. Europe, N America and Asia pretty extensively then. Barely left the UK since. Twice to Spain once to Holland this Century. Total of around 2 and 1/2 weeks. Edit: Oh. And a week in Oz.
Ye gods. Glorious hot late spring night and nothing but invective on PB. Get out of the house. Go to a bar. See people!
Summer night surely, the test matches have started...
Days get shorter next week...
Wax and wane wheel of year, climb your path to stand so still
It actually stands still for about a week?
Going to palermo cathedral tomorrow where apparently there's a tiny hole in the roof which projects an image of the sun on a line on the floor so you can tell where you are in the year, when to expect Easter etc
Cool!
Edit. WAIT. It can’t predict Easter, that isn’t decided by sun or moons?
Nope, a load of bishops a long time ago.
Catholic Easter is set by the Lunar calender. The first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox.
Finally, did the Trafford Centre branch of Manchester's Metrolink tram network more than two years after it opened, which incidentally was just days before the first lockdown in March 2020!
Also, my first long distance train journey since March 2020. Quick out and back from London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly, roughly two hours each way, plus about half an hour each way on the tram.
Until the Blackpool Tram extension to Blackpool North station opens later this year, I've now traversed all of the UK's light rail and/or Metro networks
And the Nerwhaven extension of the Edinbuirgh trams next year (about bloody time too).
I've tested positive today for COVID. So have both my parents (I haven't seen them recently). None of us have had it before. It may be due to jab immunity wearing off.
Whisper it quietly but I am not overly convinced the vaccine is very effective at stopping the current Covid variants.
It might reduce the severity when you do catch it of course.
No, vaccine escape is much higher with Omicron, and it seems Omicron doesn't generate much immunity either.
So here we are for the foreseeable... endless doses of covid every few months.
Neighbours were due to fly to Botswana tomorrow for a safari - their first holiday in 3 years, already postponed twice. One of them just tested positive so they have had to cancel again - and unpack their bags. Feel gutted for them.
Anyway, greetings from Yeghegnadzor, Armenia where I have just slept, on and off, for 15 hours
Quite odd. The accumulated sleep deficit of travel, I guess. Feel fine now. Unsurprisingly refreshed
Back in November 1999 during my Armenia trip I arrived in Yegheghnadzor having travelled in a dodgy taxi over the high plateau from Martuni on lake Sevan, where I’d had a really quite nasty stomach bug. I too slept for a similar amount of time.
I’d fallen in with an American peace corps volunteer in Martuni and slept on his floor after a day of the squits, but the evening, first with some teenage kids we got talking to in a shack on the outskirts and later in a highly kitsch mafiosi restaurant with Armienski conac finished me off. Was retching the whole next day.
I’m sure the place is better presented now but that whole central and Southern part of Armenia was a juxtaposition of wild and beautiful scenery, and ugly as hell settlements that had barely emerged from communism.
PB is incredibly well travelled. Who woulda thunk another PB-er has already been to “Yegheghnadzor”, southern Armenia. I am determined to go somewhere, on this trip, that no PB-er has ever been
FYI, Armenia has not changed, one jot. Alarmingly ugly towns of grey concrete and derelict car yards, surrounded by rugged sometimes magnificent mountainscapes, dotted with ancient monasteries
The “tourist” industry consists of the odd minibus with Russians, and nothing else at all
The upside of being the only tourist is that everyone seems genuinely pleased to see you, quietly puzzled by your presence, shyly eager to practise their English, and all round amiable, warm and welcoming, without going overboard and intruding.
They are also highly tolerant of slightly drunken driving
I wonder if there's anyone on PB who did more travelling during the 80s and 90s than since then?
I certainly did. Europe, N America and Asia pretty extensively then. Barely left the UK since. Twice to Spain once to Holland this Century. Total of around 2 and 1/2 weeks
I covered a lot in the Eighties and nineties too.
Europe, USA, Mexico, Caribbean, Africa, Middle East, India, SE Asia, Australasia.
I did pretty well in the noughties too, just slowed down a bit in the teens.
Finally, did the Trafford Centre branch of Manchester's Metrolink tram network more than two years after it opened, which incidentally was just days before the first lockdown in March 2020!
Also, my first long distance train journey since March 2020. Quick out and back from London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly, roughly two hours each way, plus about half an hour each way on the tram.
Until the Blackpool Tram extension to Blackpool North station opens later this year, I've now traversed all of the UK's light rail and/or Metro networks
Anyway, greetings from Yeghegnadzor, Armenia where I have just slept, on and off, for 15 hours
Quite odd. The accumulated sleep deficit of travel, I guess. Feel fine now. Unsurprisingly refreshed
Back in November 1999 during my Armenia trip I arrived in Yegheghnadzor having travelled in a dodgy taxi over the high plateau from Martuni on lake Sevan, where I’d had a really quite nasty stomach bug. I too slept for a similar amount of time.
I’d fallen in with an American peace corps volunteer in Martuni and slept on his floor after a day of the squits, but the evening, first with some teenage kids we got talking to in a shack on the outskirts and later in a highly kitsch mafiosi restaurant with Armienski conac finished me off. Was retching the whole next day.
I’m sure the place is better presented now but that whole central and Southern part of Armenia was a juxtaposition of wild and beautiful scenery, and ugly as hell settlements that had barely emerged from communism.
PB is incredibly well travelled. Who woulda thunk another PB-er has already been to “Yegheghnadzor”, southern Armenia. I am determined to go somewhere, on this trip, that no PB-er has ever been
FYI, Armenia has not changed, one jot. Alarmingly ugly towns of grey concrete and derelict car yards, surrounded by rugged sometimes magnificent mountainscapes, dotted with ancient monasteries
The “tourist” industry consists of the odd minibus with Russians, and nothing else at all
The upside of being the only tourist is that everyone seems genuinely pleased to see you, quietly puzzled by your presence, shyly eager to practise their English, and all round amiable, warm and welcoming, without going overboard and intruding.
They are also highly tolerant of slightly drunken driving
I wonder if there's anyone on PB who did more travelling during the 80s and 90s than since then?
Me. I was all over the shop in the 80s and 90s, about 50 countries, and since then I've travelled far far less. My recent short holiday in Belgium was my 1st trip abroad for 10 years.
I've tested positive today for COVID. So have both my parents (I haven't seen them recently). None of us have had it before. It may be due to jab immunity wearing off.
Whisper it quietly but I am not overly convinced the vaccine is very effective at stopping the current Covid variants.
It might reduce the severity when you do catch it of course.
No, vaccine escape is much higher with Omicron, and it seems Omicron doesn't generate much immunity either.
So here we are for the foreseeable... endless doses of covid every few months.
Neighbours were due to fly to Botswana tomorrow for a safari - their first holiday in 3 years, already postponed twice. One of them just tested positive so they have had to cancel again - and unpack their bags. Feel gutted for them.
1st world problem I guess but still.
Shame. Botswana is on my to do list. Great wildlife, and June is a great time to go.
That fucking DISGUSTING infill of a beautiful bridge must be reversed (tho again there were “2 people” who thought it was fine, against 900 who did not, who are they??)
But the question is: how did this even happen? It seems to be a peculiarly British thing. A philistine disgust at beautiful things so we treat them with overt contempt. Like Scousers booing a lovely hymn
I cannot think of any advanced culture that does this, except for ones warped by political doctrine, like the church-hating states of the Soviet Union or the iconoclasts of Mao’s Cultural Revolution in China, but even they have now all wised up
Totally agreed on reversing the infill -- for me the main reason is that I don't think we should let people get away with sidestepping rules by presenting that kind of "oops, but it's done now, so here we are, let's just move on, eh?" fait accompli to society. (I agree on aesthetic and don't-prevent-railway-reinstatement grounds too.) "Whoops, this listed but expensive-to-convert building seems to have suffered a convenient arson attack" is another on similar lines.
Not sure Britain is alone in this -- Japan has some nasty examples too, where the "construction state" builds new stuff and bulldozes the old. For instance the historic Nihonbashi bridge in Tokyo currently has an expressway running over the top of it so low that the ornate iron lampposts of the old bridge have had to be carefully fitted in the gap between expressway carriageways. The original Frank Lloyd Wright designed Imperial Hotel is another -- replaced with a dull modern hotel.
Edit: Alex Kerr's _Dogs and Demons_ has a section on this sort of Japanese architectural vandalism, I think.
I have read that the Japanese regard buildings as pretty transient things with a 50 year design life so perhaps the build quality isn't great
Regular earthquakes and tsunamis will have that psychological effect on the attitude to the built environment.
Very good point
Yes, and fires, because the Japanese build in wood (which survives better in earthquakes) but wood decays quick. And burns
So much of Japanese culture comes down to this underlying factor of impernance. The haiku is all about melancholic loss and the fleeting futility of everything. All you have is the moment. The perfect taste of miso, the single perfect flower arrangement (that lasts a day), the geisha girl who begins to age the day she gets the job
The fall of the cherry blossom: look at this aircraft they built, named 'Cherry Blossom'. It had no undercarriage (and some versions had no motor, being gliders). The nose housed a large high explosive warhead. Guess the function, in 1945 ...
Lots of people don't realise how strict the rules for haiku are. It's not just the syllable count, you also have to refer to nature, and to a season of the year, and to convey a sunt lacrimae rerum kinda vibe
Call me a bigoted western hegemonist if you will, but to me that all adds up to a pile of time wasting wank. Verbal flower arranging.
As I recall, the Americans were horrified by a fanatical barbaric samurai warrior culture whose officers wore swords in battle and which meditated on the fall of the cherry blossom and which painted such things as the floating chrysanthemum on their tanks and aircraft (and the full chrysanthemum was represented as a carving on the bows of each IJN warship).
And the Japanese were horrified by a ferocious horde of barbaric degenerate materialists who painted pornographic pictures on their fighting vehicles.
Anyway, greetings from Yeghegnadzor, Armenia where I have just slept, on and off, for 15 hours
Quite odd. The accumulated sleep deficit of travel, I guess. Feel fine now. Unsurprisingly refreshed
Back in November 1999 during my Armenia trip I arrived in Yegheghnadzor having travelled in a dodgy taxi over the high plateau from Martuni on lake Sevan, where I’d had a really quite nasty stomach bug. I too slept for a similar amount of time.
I’d fallen in with an American peace corps volunteer in Martuni and slept on his floor after a day of the squits, but the evening, first with some teenage kids we got talking to in a shack on the outskirts and later in a highly kitsch mafiosi restaurant with Armienski conac finished me off. Was retching the whole next day.
I’m sure the place is better presented now but that whole central and Southern part of Armenia was a juxtaposition of wild and beautiful scenery, and ugly as hell settlements that had barely emerged from communism.
PB is incredibly well travelled. Who woulda thunk another PB-er has already been to “Yegheghnadzor”, southern Armenia. I am determined to go somewhere, on this trip, that no PB-er has ever been
FYI, Armenia has not changed, one jot. Alarmingly ugly towns of grey concrete and derelict car yards, surrounded by rugged sometimes magnificent mountainscapes, dotted with ancient monasteries
The “tourist” industry consists of the odd minibus with Russians, and nothing else at all
The upside of being the only tourist is that everyone seems genuinely pleased to see you, quietly puzzled by your presence, shyly eager to practise their English, and all round amiable, warm and welcoming, without going overboard and intruding.
They are also highly tolerant of slightly drunken driving
I wonder if there's anyone on PB who did more travelling during the 80s and 90s than since then?
I certainly did. Europe, N America and Asia pretty extensively then. Barely left the UK since. Twice to Spain once to Holland this Century. Total of around 2 and 1/2 weeks. Edit: Oh. And a week in Oz.
I did too — family holidays. Since the year 2000 I haven't done much. It means that when I think of airports and planes I still have relatively fond memories of them, with people dressing in smart clothes and talking quietly to each other as if they were in a library (when flying). Airports were regarded as slightly luxurious places to be at that time: the whole airport I mean, not just the executive lounges.
Finally, did the Trafford Centre branch of Manchester's Metrolink tram network more than two years after it opened, which incidentally was just days before the first lockdown in March 2020!
Also, my first long distance train journey since March 2020. Quick out and back from London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly, roughly two hours each way, plus about half an hour each way on the tram.
Until the Blackpool Tram extension to Blackpool North station opens later this year, I've now traversed all of the UK's light rail and/or Metro networks
Have you done all the heritage lines too?
The Seaton line is an unexpected treat - the trick is to start from the Colyton terminus and travel back on the last tram of the day from the coast. Very pleasant trundle through the Axe wetlands with plenty of birds and often the only people on the tram other than the driver.
Anyway, greetings from Yeghegnadzor, Armenia where I have just slept, on and off, for 15 hours
Quite odd. The accumulated sleep deficit of travel, I guess. Feel fine now. Unsurprisingly refreshed
Back in November 1999 during my Armenia trip I arrived in Yegheghnadzor having travelled in a dodgy taxi over the high plateau from Martuni on lake Sevan, where I’d had a really quite nasty stomach bug. I too slept for a similar amount of time.
I’d fallen in with an American peace corps volunteer in Martuni and slept on his floor after a day of the squits, but the evening, first with some teenage kids we got talking to in a shack on the outskirts and later in a highly kitsch mafiosi restaurant with Armienski conac finished me off. Was retching the whole next day.
I’m sure the place is better presented now but that whole central and Southern part of Armenia was a juxtaposition of wild and beautiful scenery, and ugly as hell settlements that had barely emerged from communism.
PB is incredibly well travelled. Who woulda thunk another PB-er has already been to “Yegheghnadzor”, southern Armenia. I am determined to go somewhere, on this trip, that no PB-er has ever been
FYI, Armenia has not changed, one jot. Alarmingly ugly towns of grey concrete and derelict car yards, surrounded by rugged sometimes magnificent mountainscapes, dotted with ancient monasteries
The “tourist” industry consists of the odd minibus with Russians, and nothing else at all
The upside of being the only tourist is that everyone seems genuinely pleased to see you, quietly puzzled by your presence, shyly eager to practise their English, and all round amiable, warm and welcoming, without going overboard and intruding.
They are also highly tolerant of slightly drunken driving
I wonder if there's anyone on PB who did more travelling during the 80s and 90s than since then?
Me. I was all over the shop in the 80s and 90s, about 50 countries, and since then I've travelled far far less. My recent short holiday in Belgium was my 1st trip abroad for 10 years.
Why? AIUI your kid/s are grown? Why stop travelling?
Genuine Q
OK I travel for my job but even if I didn’t I’d travel anyway. You clearly USED to like travelling, did you just get bored?
Let’s have the vote. But the UK govt can say no because there doesn’t seem to be an indication in current polling that independence is a “hot topic” or key.
You’ve only got to look at some of the dubious stats in the latest paper published to realise the SNP is stuck in some sort of hopeless stalemate.
I would hazard a guess that with the Tories running out of steam down here - and heading toward an electoral defeat - the SNPs job becomes somewhat more difficult after..how many years?
If we have the vote it will be 45 yes for independence 55 no like last time
I’ve no idea. But let’s have one to find out
I just can’t see a route to it happening though. No one in Westminster will take that risk - particularly after the Brexit ref
Please not that.
Not a referendum to "just find out".
The unwritten but sensible rule is to have a referendum to confirm what everyone knows. If you have it when the result is hovering either side of 50:50, you are setting up a world of pain.
As we've seen.
For a start, whenever the generation is over and we have to have a second Scottish referendum, we absolutely need to learn the lessons of Brexit and determine an exact prospectus first.
That could only be achieved through pre-negotiation of the entire divorce settlement. Fascinated as to how that would work. Or not.
Yes. Not happening. Sounds good but in practice impossible.
Let’s have the vote. But the UK govt can say no because there doesn’t seem to be an indication in current polling that independence is a “hot topic” or key.
You’ve only got to look at some of the dubious stats in the latest paper published to realise the SNP is stuck in some sort of hopeless stalemate.
I would hazard a guess that with the Tories running out of steam down here - and heading toward an electoral defeat - the SNPs job becomes somewhat more difficult after..how many years?
If we have the vote it will be 45 yes for independence 55 no like last time
I’ve no idea. But let’s have one to find out
I just can’t see a route to it happening though. No one in Westminster will take that risk - particularly after the Brexit ref
Please not that.
Not a referendum to "just find out".
The unwritten but sensible rule is to have a referendum to confirm what everyone knows. If you have it when the result is hovering either side of 50:50, you are setting up a world of pain.
As we've seen.
For a start, whenever the generation is over and we have to have a second Scottish referendum, we absolutely need to learn the lessons of Brexit and determine an exact prospectus first.
That could only be achieved through pre-negotiation of the entire divorce settlement. Fascinated as to how that would work. Or not.
Well, indeed. It would force the SNP to make decisions...
Out of the question. Can you imagine Mr Johnson's administration (a) making decisions and (b) sticking to agreements? The current NI situation ...
Anyway, greetings from Yeghegnadzor, Armenia where I have just slept, on and off, for 15 hours
Quite odd. The accumulated sleep deficit of travel, I guess. Feel fine now. Unsurprisingly refreshed
Back in November 1999 during my Armenia trip I arrived in Yegheghnadzor having travelled in a dodgy taxi over the high plateau from Martuni on lake Sevan, where I’d had a really quite nasty stomach bug. I too slept for a similar amount of time.
I’d fallen in with an American peace corps volunteer in Martuni and slept on his floor after a day of the squits, but the evening, first with some teenage kids we got talking to in a shack on the outskirts and later in a highly kitsch mafiosi restaurant with Armienski conac finished me off. Was retching the whole next day.
I’m sure the place is better presented now but that whole central and Southern part of Armenia was a juxtaposition of wild and beautiful scenery, and ugly as hell settlements that had barely emerged from communism.
PB is incredibly well travelled. Who woulda thunk another PB-er has already been to “Yegheghnadzor”, southern Armenia. I am determined to go somewhere, on this trip, that no PB-er has ever been
FYI, Armenia has not changed, one jot. Alarmingly ugly towns of grey concrete and derelict car yards, surrounded by rugged sometimes magnificent mountainscapes, dotted with ancient monasteries
The “tourist” industry consists of the odd minibus with Russians, and nothing else at all
The upside of being the only tourist is that everyone seems genuinely pleased to see you, quietly puzzled by your presence, shyly eager to practise their English, and all round amiable, warm and welcoming, without going overboard and intruding.
They are also highly tolerant of slightly drunken driving
I wonder if there's anyone on PB who did more travelling during the 80s and 90s than since then?
I certainly did. Europe, N America and Asia pretty extensively then. Barely left the UK since. Twice to Spain once to Holland this Century. Total of around 2 and 1/2 weeks. Edit: Oh. And a week in Oz.
I did too — family holidays. Since the year 2000 I haven't done much. It means that when I think of airports and planes I still have relatively fond memories of them, with people dressing in smart clothes and talking quietly to each other as if they were in a library (when flying). Airports were regarded as slightly luxurious places to be at that time.
Airports were like that, maybe, in the 1960s or before (I’m too young to recall so I will take it on trust)
The idea that Luton or Gatwick were hushed places like libraries, full of people in smart clothes, in 1993, say……
As predicted by fluffy tailed me yesterday, the government could not survive flying anyone to Rwanda and then having to fly them back, as they promised the UK judges they would if the scheme is ruled illegal.
So, oh so quietly today, ALL Rwanda flights have been abandoned until the legal ruling. (Stick that on your front page Daily Mail).
They might well do so, especially if they can blame judges. Even more so if they can blame Eurojudges.
And a "we wanted to but the horrid lefty legal establishment stopped us" is a much better narrative for the government than actually trying it.
Nah. Even the Mail will leave this alone now. The Rwanda policy’s defenders have certainly melted away.
Yep. MoonRabbit called it right again. Daily Mail leads on the Credit Crunch.
Failed and friendless Rwanda policy died this week.
It has rung down the curtain. It has joined the choir invisible.
Now they are going to have to come up with something completely different 😆
Let’s have the vote. But the UK govt can say no because there doesn’t seem to be an indication in current polling that independence is a “hot topic” or key.
You’ve only got to look at some of the dubious stats in the latest paper published to realise the SNP is stuck in some sort of hopeless stalemate.
I would hazard a guess that with the Tories running out of steam down here - and heading toward an electoral defeat - the SNPs job becomes somewhat more difficult after..how many years?
If we have the vote it will be 45 yes for independence 55 no like last time
I’ve no idea. But let’s have one to find out
I just can’t see a route to it happening though. No one in Westminster will take that risk - particularly after the Brexit ref
Please not that.
Not a referendum to "just find out".
The unwritten but sensible rule is to have a referendum to confirm what everyone knows. If you have it when the result is hovering either side of 50:50, you are setting up a world of pain.
As we've seen.
That's a good point. And massive constitutional forever change based on a slim majority on one day? Hmm.
As predicted by fluffy tailed me yesterday, the government could not survive flying anyone to Rwanda and then having to fly them back, as they promised the UK judges they would if the scheme is ruled illegal.
So, oh so quietly today, ALL Rwanda flights have been abandoned until the legal ruling. (Stick that on your front page Daily Mail).
They might well do so, especially if they can blame judges. Even more so if they can blame Eurojudges.
And a "we wanted to but the horrid lefty legal establishment stopped us" is a much better narrative for the government than actually trying it.
Nah. Even the Mail will leave this alone now. The Rwanda policy’s defenders have certainly melted away.
Yep. MoonRabbit called it right again. Daily Mail leads on the Credit Crunch.
Failed and friendless Rwanda policy died this week.
It has rung down the curtain. It has joined the choir invisible.
Now they are going to have to come up with something completely different 😆
If, as I have posted, the whole point of Rwanda policy was to get parties and lies off front pages then 11% inflation will do just as well and Rwanda can stand down.
I wonder whether there are Rwandian government ministers tonight who had factored in the income to the country from this scheme who are wondering whether like any one who has dealings with Big Dog that they have been duped and shat on?
Finally, did the Trafford Centre branch of Manchester's Metrolink tram network more than two years after it opened, which incidentally was just days before the first lockdown in March 2020!
Also, my first long distance train journey since March 2020. Quick out and back from London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly, roughly two hours each way, plus about half an hour each way on the tram.
Until the Blackpool Tram extension to Blackpool North station opens later this year, I've now traversed all of the UK's light rail and/or Metro networks
Have you done all the heritage lines too?
The Seaton line is an unexpected treat - the trick is to start from the Colyton terminus and travel back on the last tram of the day from the coast. Very pleasant trundle through the Axe wetlands with plenty of birds and often the only people on the tram other than the driver.
I presume someone has used the Seaton Tramway as a by election phopt opportunity, as it's in the Tiv&Hon constituency.
As predicted by fluffy tailed me yesterday, the government could not survive flying anyone to Rwanda and then having to fly them back, as they promised the UK judges they would if the scheme is ruled illegal.
So, oh so quietly today, ALL Rwanda flights have been abandoned until the legal ruling. (Stick that on your front page Daily Mail).
They might well do so, especially if they can blame judges. Even more so if they can blame Eurojudges.
And a "we wanted to but the horrid lefty legal establishment stopped us" is a much better narrative for the government than actually trying it.
Nah. Even the Mail will leave this alone now. The Rwanda policy’s defenders have certainly melted away.
Yep. MoonRabbit called it right again. Daily Mail leads on the Credit Crunch.
Failed and friendless Rwanda policy died this week.
It has rung down the curtain. It has joined the choir invisible.
Now they are going to have to come up with something completely different 😆
If, as I have posted, the whole point of Rwanda policy was to get parties and lies off front pages then 11% inflation will do just as well and Rwanda can stand down.
I wonder whether there are Rwandian government ministers tonight who had factored in the income to the country from this scheme who are wondering whether like any one who has dealings with Big Dog that they have been duped and shat on?
I think Rwanda get the money whatever happens, so are laughing.
As predicted by fluffy tailed me yesterday, the government could not survive flying anyone to Rwanda and then having to fly them back, as they promised the UK judges they would if the scheme is ruled illegal.
So, oh so quietly today, ALL Rwanda flights have been abandoned until the legal ruling. (Stick that on your front page Daily Mail).
They might well do so, especially if they can blame judges. Even more so if they can blame Eurojudges.
And a "we wanted to but the horrid lefty legal establishment stopped us" is a much better narrative for the government than actually trying it.
Nah. Even the Mail will leave this alone now. The Rwanda policy’s defenders have certainly melted away.
Yep. MoonRabbit called it right again. Daily Mail leads on the Credit Crunch.
Failed and friendless Rwanda policy died this week.
It has rung down the curtain. It has joined the choir invisible.
Now they are going to have to come up with something completely different 😆
If, as I have posted, the whole point of Rwanda policy was to get parties and lies off front pages then 11% inflation will do just as well and Rwanda can stand down.
I wonder whether there are Rwandian government ministers tonight who had factored in the income to the country from this scheme who are wondering whether like any one who has dealings with Big Dog that they have been duped and shat on?
I think Rwanda get the money whatever happens, so are laughing.
Johnson is never one to count the pennies.
You are sooooo funny foxy. How can they get money whatever happens, who’d sign that contract? Even Daily Express would splash that insanity on front page. 🤣
I DON’T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU’VE ALL STOPPED TRAVELLING
I noticed earlier that Skyscanner has £197 return flights from Manchester to the obscure Melbourne Orlando airport.
Is there anything worth doing in Florida? I’ve never had the pleasure.
Absolutely
Florida is a fab destination - once you accept it has all the flaws of the USA - from strip malls to crime - but it also has many of the virtues of America plus genuinely great weather (apart from hurricanes, but you can avoid them)
Miami is compelling. Great food in places, vivid street life
There are surprisingly quiet lovely rural spots inland, never visited, subtropical parks and wildernesses
The Everglades are magnificent. Kayaking at night watching the alligators rise, yellow eyes burning, whoah!
The Keys can be twee but also hedonistic
And up the Gulf Coast you have charming if pricey resorts like Sanibel Island, with the best shell collecting in the world
Basically, yes, go, and of course you have Disneyland and all that it you really want (or you have kids)
Anyway, greetings from Yeghegnadzor, Armenia where I have just slept, on and off, for 15 hours
Quite odd. The accumulated sleep deficit of travel, I guess. Feel fine now. Unsurprisingly refreshed
Back in November 1999 during my Armenia trip I arrived in Yegheghnadzor having travelled in a dodgy taxi over the high plateau from Martuni on lake Sevan, where I’d had a really quite nasty stomach bug. I too slept for a similar amount of time.
I’d fallen in with an American peace corps volunteer in Martuni and slept on his floor after a day of the squits, but the evening, first with some teenage kids we got talking to in a shack on the outskirts and later in a highly kitsch mafiosi restaurant with Armienski conac finished me off. Was retching the whole next day.
I’m sure the place is better presented now but that whole central and Southern part of Armenia was a juxtaposition of wild and beautiful scenery, and ugly as hell settlements that had barely emerged from communism.
PB is incredibly well travelled. Who woulda thunk another PB-er has already been to “Yegheghnadzor”, southern Armenia. I am determined to go somewhere, on this trip, that no PB-er has ever been
FYI, Armenia has not changed, one jot. Alarmingly ugly towns of grey concrete and derelict car yards, surrounded by rugged sometimes magnificent mountainscapes, dotted with ancient monasteries
The “tourist” industry consists of the odd minibus with Russians, and nothing else at all
The upside of being the only tourist is that everyone seems genuinely pleased to see you, quietly puzzled by your presence, shyly eager to practise their English, and all round amiable, warm and welcoming, without going overboard and intruding.
They are also highly tolerant of slightly drunken driving
I wonder if there's anyone on PB who did more travelling during the 80s and 90s than since then?
Me. I was all over the shop in the 80s and 90s, about 50 countries, and since then I've travelled far far less. My recent short holiday in Belgium was my 1st trip abroad for 10 years.
Why? AIUI your kid/s are grown? Why stop travelling?
Genuine Q
OK I travel for my job but even if I didn’t I’d travel anyway. You clearly USED to like travelling, did you just get bored?
Much of my travelling was work and I stopped working. That's one reason. Then on the hols they seemed somehow less important when life had sort of became one anyway.
And then it just became a habit to only take easy little minibreaks in the UK. A bad habit though - hence trying to break it now. Would have done a few trips in the last couple of years if not for Covid.
As predicted by fluffy tailed me yesterday, the government could not survive flying anyone to Rwanda and then having to fly them back, as they promised the UK judges they would if the scheme is ruled illegal.
So, oh so quietly today, ALL Rwanda flights have been abandoned until the legal ruling. (Stick that on your front page Daily Mail).
They might well do so, especially if they can blame judges. Even more so if they can blame Eurojudges.
And a "we wanted to but the horrid lefty legal establishment stopped us" is a much better narrative for the government than actually trying it.
Nah. Even the Mail will leave this alone now. The Rwanda policy’s defenders have certainly melted away.
Yep. MoonRabbit called it right again. Daily Mail leads on the Credit Crunch.
Failed and friendless Rwanda policy died this week.
It has rung down the curtain. It has joined the choir invisible.
Now they are going to have to come up with something completely different 😆
If, as I have posted, the whole point of Rwanda policy was to get parties and lies off front pages then 11% inflation will do just as well and Rwanda can stand down.
I wonder whether there are Rwandian government ministers tonight who had factored in the income to the country from this scheme who are wondering whether like any one who has dealings with Big Dog that they have been duped and shat on?
I think Rwanda get the money whatever happens, so are laughing.
Johnson is never one to count the pennies.
You are sooooo funny foxy. How can they get money whatever happens, who’d sign that contract? Even Daily Express would splash that insanity on front page. 🤣
No, I think it is correct. The 120 million quid is an aid package, payments per deported and flight costs are additional, as are the costs of the Rwandan refugees being resettled here under the agreement.
"It is estimated to have cost £500,000 to charter Tuesday's flight, on top of the government's legal costs, payments to Rwanda for each asylum seeker they accept and a £120m aid package for the east African country."
Anyway this is my 3rd visit to London in as many months and it's too bloody hot.
However, for the 2nd time, I have been offered a tantric massage. I am but a poor unsophisticated country mouse these days but even I twigged that rushing to accept this might not be the wisest course.
Does this happen to others? Is it London? Is it (gulp) me?
"Opinion Global Insight Democrats have stopped listening to America’s voters The party is heading for a meltdown in the midterms but shows no taste for introspection EDWARD LUCE" (via G search)
Finally, did the Trafford Centre branch of Manchester's Metrolink tram network more than two years after it opened, which incidentally was just days before the first lockdown in March 2020!
Also, my first long distance train journey since March 2020. Quick out and back from London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly, roughly two hours each way, plus about half an hour each way on the tram.
Until the Blackpool Tram extension to Blackpool North station opens later this year, I've now traversed all of the UK's light rail and/or Metro networks
Have you done all the heritage lines too?
The Seaton line is an unexpected treat - the trick is to start from the Colyton terminus and travel back on the last tram of the day from the coast. Very pleasant trundle through the Axe wetlands with plenty of birds and often the only people on the tram other than the driver.
I presume someone has used the Seaton Tramway as a by election phopt opportunity, as it's in the Tiv&Hon constituency.
Anyway, greetings from Yeghegnadzor, Armenia where I have just slept, on and off, for 15 hours
Quite odd. The accumulated sleep deficit of travel, I guess. Feel fine now. Unsurprisingly refreshed
Back in November 1999 during my Armenia trip I arrived in Yegheghnadzor having travelled in a dodgy taxi over the high plateau from Martuni on lake Sevan, where I’d had a really quite nasty stomach bug. I too slept for a similar amount of time.
I’d fallen in with an American peace corps volunteer in Martuni and slept on his floor after a day of the squits, but the evening, first with some teenage kids we got talking to in a shack on the outskirts and later in a highly kitsch mafiosi restaurant with Armienski conac finished me off. Was retching the whole next day.
I’m sure the place is better presented now but that whole central and Southern part of Armenia was a juxtaposition of wild and beautiful scenery, and ugly as hell settlements that had barely emerged from communism.
PB is incredibly well travelled. Who woulda thunk another PB-er has already been to “Yegheghnadzor”, southern Armenia. I am determined to go somewhere, on this trip, that no PB-er has ever been
FYI, Armenia has not changed, one jot. Alarmingly ugly towns of grey concrete and derelict car yards, surrounded by rugged sometimes magnificent mountainscapes, dotted with ancient monasteries
The “tourist” industry consists of the odd minibus with Russians, and nothing else at all
The upside of being the only tourist is that everyone seems genuinely pleased to see you, quietly puzzled by your presence, shyly eager to practise their English, and all round amiable, warm and welcoming, without going overboard and intruding.
They are also highly tolerant of slightly drunken driving
I wonder if there's anyone on PB who did more travelling during the 80s and 90s than since then?
Me. I was all over the shop in the 80s and 90s, about 50 countries, and since then I've travelled far far less. My recent short holiday in Belgium was my 1st trip abroad for 10 years.
Why? AIUI your kid/s are grown? Why stop travelling?
Genuine Q
OK I travel for my job but even if I didn’t I’d travel anyway. You clearly USED to like travelling, did you just get bored?
Much of my travelling was work and I stopped working. That's one reason. Then on the hols they seemed somehow less important when life had sort of became one anyway.
And then it just became a habit to only take easy little minibreaks in the UK. A bad habit though - hence trying to break it now. Would have done a few trips in the last couple of years if not for Covid.
It’s a really bad habit
With all due respect, I think this may account for your odd narrowness of mind, despite being a clearly bright guy. You’ve become set in your ways, as you are set in your opinions. You do not challenge yourself with new ideas, as you do not challenge yourself with new places, cuisines, cultures, languages
DO IT. I mean that in a genuinely friendly way. DO IT. You have the time, the money, the intellect, and you are still young enough to really enjoy it. EXPLORE. It’s not like you only have one holiday a year so if it goes wrong it’s a disaster. I totally understand that argument: why a poorer family may choose Benidorm again and again, because they can only afford one holiday and it has to go right, and they can trust Hotel X in resort Y with sunshine Z, so they repeat. Totally fair
But this is not you. What a waste of your freedom and affluence if you don’t exploit it!
Finally, did the Trafford Centre branch of Manchester's Metrolink tram network more than two years after it opened, which incidentally was just days before the first lockdown in March 2020!
Also, my first long distance train journey since March 2020. Quick out and back from London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly, roughly two hours each way, plus about half an hour each way on the tram.
Until the Blackpool Tram extension to Blackpool North station opens later this year, I've now traversed all of the UK's light rail and/or Metro networks
Have you done all the heritage lines too?
The Seaton line is an unexpected treat - the trick is to start from the Colyton terminus and travel back on the last tram of the day from the coast. Very pleasant trundle through the Axe wetlands with plenty of birds and often the only people on the tram other than the driver.
I presume someone has used the Seaton Tramway as a by election phopt opportunity, as it's in the Tiv&Hon constituency.
As predicted by fluffy tailed me yesterday, the government could not survive flying anyone to Rwanda and then having to fly them back, as they promised the UK judges they would if the scheme is ruled illegal.
So, oh so quietly today, ALL Rwanda flights have been abandoned until the legal ruling. (Stick that on your front page Daily Mail).
They might well do so, especially if they can blame judges. Even more so if they can blame Eurojudges.
And a "we wanted to but the horrid lefty legal establishment stopped us" is a much better narrative for the government than actually trying it.
Nah. Even the Mail will leave this alone now. The Rwanda policy’s defenders have certainly melted away.
Yep. MoonRabbit called it right again. Daily Mail leads on the Credit Crunch.
Failed and friendless Rwanda policy died this week.
It has rung down the curtain. It has joined the choir invisible.
Now they are going to have to come up with something completely different 😆
If, as I have posted, the whole point of Rwanda policy was to get parties and lies off front pages then 11% inflation will do just as well and Rwanda can stand down.
I wonder whether there are Rwandian government ministers tonight who had factored in the income to the country from this scheme who are wondering whether like any one who has dealings with Big Dog that they have been duped and shat on?
I think Rwanda get the money whatever happens, so are laughing.
Johnson is never one to count the pennies.
You are sooooo funny foxy. How can they get money whatever happens, who’d sign that contract? Even Daily Express would splash that insanity on front page. 🤣
No, I think it is correct. The 120 million quid is an aid package, payments per deported and flight costs are additional, as are the costs of the Rwandan refugees being resettled here under the agreement.
"It is estimated to have cost £500,000 to charter Tuesday's flight, on top of the government's legal costs, payments to Rwanda for each asylum seeker they accept and a £120m aid package for the east African country."
Anyway this is my 3rd visit to London in as many months and it's too bloody hot.
However, for the 2nd time, I have been offered a tantric massage. I am but a poor unsophisticated country mouse these days but even I twigged that rushing to accept this might not be the wisest course.
Does this happen to others? Is it London? Is it (gulp) me?
Is that a massage without touching or something? Sounds like a scam to me. Good call.
I DON’T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU’VE ALL STOPPED TRAVELLING
Partly family reasons for me, so take most holidays on the very dog-friendly Isle of Wight with Mrs Foxy's extended family.
I still have a few places to go see: Madagascar, Guyana, Botswana, Vietnam, Argentina, Svalbard, not nessicarily in that order.
I would like to get back to India, Mexico, China, Australia and Russia too. The latter not for some time.
You can look at the world through a microscope or a telescope. Stay at home, travel. It doesn’t really matter. The important thing is to pay attention and not miss it. Personally a summers afternoon sat in the shade of an old English oak tree looking at the life around me is bliss.
Anyway this is my 3rd visit to London in as many months and it's too bloody hot.
However, for the 2nd time, I have been offered a tantric massage. I am but a poor unsophisticated country mouse these days but even I twigged that rushing to accept this might not be the wisest course.
Does this happen to others? Is it London? Is it (gulp) me?
Is that a massage without touching or something? Sounds like a scam to me. Good call.
I rather suspect that quite a lot of touching goes on. Rather more than one might expect.
Not really one for massages in any event. My never fail way of really relaxing is a swim in the sea. I can be in there for hours.
And if I had to end my life that's where I'd do it. After a very good lunch with lots of wine.
Comments
No hounding involved. Charles liked to come down here and beglamour us all with his ineffable richness and poshness and after a decade or so of that I got fed up and pointed out that rich and posh people don't usually do that. And then, anticipating his response that that's just what poor and common people think, I added (truthfully) that I know lots of his cousins and they don't go on and on and on about it, and you could know them for years without them telling you Who They Were.
Your judgment that you are incapable of contributing anything to the site is of course valid.
I just can’t see a route to it happening though. No one in Westminster will take that risk - particularly after the Brexit ref
Anonymous person B likes to use his anonymity to get at posters who aren't anonymous.
You are a pompous toad yourself. Also, an absolutely vile ****.
Case in point: I stopped off at a Palermo cornershop on the way home for a bottle of wine. The Sicilians don't do screw tops and I am sick of excavating corks with a penknife and coat hanger so I bought the 1 litre for 1 euro 50 plastic bottle of red precisely because it had the only screw top in the place. And got a very I know an impoverished alcoholic when I see one look from the shopkeeper
It's not at all bad either
hegemonist then, shall be
thy name Ishmael
Not a referendum to "just find out".
The unwritten but sensible rule is to have a referendum to confirm what everyone knows. If you have it when the result is hovering either side of 50:50, you are setting up a world of pain.
As we've seen.
Is this the real SeanT in yet another masterful disguise?
Now fuck off.
FYI, Armenia has not changed, one jot. Alarmingly ugly towns of grey concrete and derelict car yards, surrounded by rugged sometimes magnificent mountainscapes, dotted with ancient monasteries
The “tourist” industry consists of the odd minibus with Russians, and nothing else at all
The upside of being the only tourist is that everyone seems genuinely pleased to see you, quietly puzzled by your presence, shyly eager to practise their English, and all round amiable, warm and welcoming, without going overboard and intruding.
They are also highly tolerant of slightly drunken driving
You also have no response because I am mimicking your cowardly snake-like style. Awesome. You vile ****.
You're the one who should fuck off.. the site would be so much better for it.
Now unless there is anything else, I'll be off.
I'm collapsed in a heap and keeping myself distracted until it feels comfortable enough for bed. Sticking around here serves that purpose reasonably well.
Old heads of this site.. love your work and you are usually good at policing yourselves.. but this creature is getting a free pass. Wise up.
Bye.
I've just slipped a jumper on...
That’s why he left.
It actually stands still for about a week?
Edit. WAIT. It can’t predict Easter, that isn’t decided by sun or moons?
BY JACOB FUREDI"
https://unherd.com/2022/06/inside-wakefields-corrupt-election/
And if you're in the pub what are doing posting on here ffs?
Each mention of ScotIndy2 and time stands still.
Feeling like shit though.
Covid test negative, which surprised me tbh.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1a7fw
It might reduce the severity when you do catch it of course.
Finally, did the Trafford Centre branch of Manchester's Metrolink tram network more than two years after it opened, which incidentally was just days before the first lockdown in March 2020!
Also, my first long distance train journey since March 2020. Quick out and back from London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly, roughly two hours each way, plus about half an hour each way on the tram.
Until the Blackpool Tram extension to Blackpool North station opens later this year, I've now traversed all of the UK's light rail and/or Metro networks
Barely left the UK since. Twice to Spain once to Holland this Century. Total of around 2 and 1/2 weeks.
Edit: Oh. And a week in Oz.
Neighbours were due to fly to Botswana tomorrow for a safari - their first holiday in 3 years, already postponed twice. One of them just tested positive so they have had to cancel again - and unpack their bags. Feel gutted for them.
1st world problem I guess but still.
Europe, USA, Mexico, Caribbean, Africa, Middle East, India, SE Asia, Australasia.
I did pretty well in the noughties too, just slowed down a bit in the teens.
Phew! What a scorcher!
about 50 countries, and since then I've travelled far far less. My recent short holiday in Belgium was my 1st trip abroad for 10 years.
And the Japanese were horrified by a ferocious horde of barbaric degenerate materialists who painted pornographic pictures on their fighting vehicles.
Genuine Q
OK I travel for my job but even if I didn’t I’d travel anyway. You clearly USED to like travelling, did you just get bored?
The idea that Luton or Gatwick were hushed places like libraries, full of people in smart clothes, in 1993, say……
Lol
Failed and friendless Rwanda policy died this week.
It has rung down the curtain. It has joined the choir invisible.
Now they are going to have to come up with something completely different 😆
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/16/wakefield-tory-candidate-nadeem-ahmed-compares-imran-ahmad-khan-to-harold-shipman
I wonder whether there are Rwandian government ministers tonight who had factored in the income to the country from this scheme who are wondering whether like any one who has dealings with Big Dog that they have been duped and shat on?
Johnson is never one to count the pennies.
Is there anything worth doing in Florida? I’ve never had the pleasure.
Florida is a fab destination - once you accept it has all the flaws of the USA - from strip malls to crime - but it also has many of the virtues of America plus genuinely great weather (apart from hurricanes, but you can avoid them)
Miami is compelling. Great food in places, vivid street life
There are surprisingly quiet lovely rural spots inland, never visited, subtropical parks and wildernesses
The Everglades are magnificent. Kayaking at night watching the alligators rise, yellow eyes burning, whoah!
The Keys can be twee but also hedonistic
And up the Gulf Coast you have charming if pricey resorts like Sanibel Island, with the best shell collecting in the world
Basically, yes, go, and of course you have Disneyland and all that it you really want (or you have kids)
And then it just became a habit to only take easy little minibreaks in the UK. A bad habit though - hence trying to break it now. Would have done a few trips in the last couple of years if not for Covid.
"It is estimated to have cost £500,000 to charter Tuesday's flight, on top of the government's legal costs, payments to Rwanda for each asylum seeker they accept and a £120m aid package for the east African country."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61799914
However, for the 2nd time, I have been offered a tantric massage. I am but a poor unsophisticated country mouse these days but even I twigged that rushing to accept this might not be the wisest course.
Does this happen to others? Is it London? Is it (gulp) me?
Democrats have stopped listening to America’s voters
The party is heading for a meltdown in the midterms but shows no taste for introspection
EDWARD LUCE" (via G search)
https://www.ft.com/content/86752d68-8039-47c6-875a-559aca88b47c
With all due respect, I think this may account for your odd narrowness of mind, despite being a clearly bright guy. You’ve become set in your ways, as you are set in your opinions. You do not challenge yourself with new ideas, as you do not challenge yourself with new places, cuisines, cultures, languages
DO IT. I mean that in a genuinely friendly way. DO IT. You have the time, the money, the intellect, and you are still young enough to really enjoy it. EXPLORE. It’s not like you only have one holiday a year so if it goes wrong it’s a disaster. I totally understand that argument: why a poorer family may choose Benidorm again and again, because they can only afford one holiday and it has to go right, and they can trust Hotel X in resort Y with sunshine Z, so they repeat. Totally fair
But this is not you. What a waste of your freedom and affluence if you don’t exploit it!
I still have a few places to go see: Madagascar, Guyana, Botswana, Vietnam, Argentina, Iran, Svalbard, not nessicarily in that order.
I would like to get back to India, Mexico, China, Australia and Russia too. The latter not for some time.
The one place that I kick myself for missing was Kashmir. It sounded great in the Eighties, bit tricky now.
Not really one for massages in any event. My never fail way of really relaxing is a swim in the sea. I can be in there for hours.
And if I had to end my life that's where I'd do it. After a very good lunch with lots of wine.
Anyway, goodnight all.