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The big worry for LAB and the LDs is Johnson going – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,289
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    vino said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Roger said:

    algarkirk said:

    I cannot see Boris leading into GE24 unless something remarkable happens

    Just noticed this, not sure if it has been reported yet

    A flight to take asylum seekers from the UK to Rwanda next Tuesday has been allowed to go ahead by the High Court. Campaigners failed in their legal bid to halt the removals to the east African country, but the case will be heard by the Court of Appeal on Monday.

    Under the policy, those entering the UK illegally will be flown to Rwanda to apply for asylum there. About 31 people have been told they may be on the first flight.

    The government hopes the scheme will discourage asylum seekers from crossing the English Channel, by making it clear many cases will now be dealt with by Rwanda.

    Appeal could well succeed. I think in fact the government may be happy to lose the appeal. Part of their not so cunning plan may be to have the courts disallow this policy so that they can get the praise from populists for trying, blame the wicked do gooders and courts, without having to actually implement this grisly charade.

    Actually implementing the policy has risks. Sentiment can change. Lots of Tory voters are not racists.

    (BTW I am not propounding an alternative solution. No good outcomes are available in the world's current dismal state. This is merely another, even worse than the some of the other bad ones.)

    And there is always that strange phenomenon that has shown voters expect their leaders to be more civilised than they are themselves. It's one of the reasons Patel is so unpopular
    And yet her ratings are almost bound to improve if the boat people stop coming.

    The Channel crossings problem can only be solved in one of two ways: by letting the unwanted migrants stay and pissing off a very large chunk of the electorate, or throwing them out and crushing their hopes and dreams in the process.

    That's life. As in so many cases, the fantasy of a scenario in which everyone can be kept happy doesn't exist.
    And only the first of those is logistically possible.

    We have known, since the announcement of this policy, that Rwanda only plan to take a few hundred people who land on British shores a year. One of their ministers made that clear on announcement day. They are not idiots and they have less capacity to assimilate tens of thousands of people than the UK does.

    So a 1% or so risk of deportation is meant to dissuade people from making the perilous Channel crossing. It's going to get overwhelmed now, which means it will never work.

    I know that telling people "you have been conned" is a very ineffective way of persuading them to change their minds. But if you have been persuaded that the Patel Plan has any hope of working on its own terms, that it's anyting other than a bit of (fairly nasty) perfomance...

    You've been conned.
    So what would you do?

    It really is not good enough to just say Oh let them all in. Indeed it is dangerously pathetic

    Pathetic, because you are unwilling to face reality, dangerous because by saying Let them all in you encourage millions more to try and you condemn thousands to death by drowning, trafficking, etc , and eventually you DO have to face the problem because it has got much worse, at which point you will face precisely the same dilemma
    The solution has been posted on here before: Stricter regulation of rogue employers; allow illegal immigrants a route to citizenship if they shop employers who flout the rules. If we stamp out the black-economy employers, the attraction reduces.

    I'd add ID cards for all too.
    No to ID cards. Absolutely no.
    Why not?
    Because they aren't the British way of doing things.
    Nor is shipping people off to Rwanda.
    A country that doesn't defend its borders is a country that doesn't exist.
    Before the Brexit referendum, I questioned the inability of Brexiters on PB to resolve the problem olf NI. I asked how they would resolve the problem of migrants coming into the UK via NI? I was told in the most lordly and patrician manner that it was so passe to worry about guarding the borders. Other measures would be taken internally within the UK ...
    Which is what Robert recommends with good evidence of what works from around the world. But in this country we looked at May's "hostile environment" and shuddered. It is just not the way we do things. It seems immoral, cruel and plainly leaves people open to vicious exploitation. As long as the majority of us feel that way, and I am sure we do, internal checks simply will not work.
    The internal checks need to be on the employers and landlords of illegal immigrants (the vast majority of whom are not begging and living on the streets).
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,397
    "One-in-ten Black people in the U. S. are immigrants." And the number is rising rapidly.
    source: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/01/27/key-findings-about-black-immigrants-in-the-u-s/
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Evidence? The Tory voteshare actually increased in polls today after Johnson survived his VONC. Nobody else in the Tory party has Boris' charisma and personality and nobody else would do any better at this time, indeed most alternatives would do worse.

    Note too Sunak does no better than Boris v Starmer as preferred PM either

    If you want to retain the lying buffoon go right ahead.

    It's only the nation and the reputation of the Conservative Party that will suffer.
    Leftwingers like you of course want to get rid of Boris just as you wanted to get rid of Thatcher as they were general election winners.


    Same as we Conservatives wanted to get rid of general election winner Blair and correctly as Labour has lost 4 consecutive general elections since he went
    There is a bizarre theory that despite being as mad as a hatter you are worth listening to on electoral issues. You don't actually understand the very simple point that post hoc does not imply propter hoc, do you? The Titanic did not sink because the lifeboats were launched, and is not a cautionary tale saying Don't whatever you do launch your lifeboats.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780
    I'd like to see the actual poll, but still...


  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Jesus, the Armenian Genocide only gets worse

    They have now resorted to cannibalism

    (I am reading The Hundred Year Walk, it is compelling but harrowing)

    During the holodomor the Soviet government put up posters saying Hey, don't eat your own kids, that's not nice
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780

    "One-in-ten Black people in the U. S. are immigrants." And the number is rising rapidly.
    source: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/01/27/key-findings-about-black-immigrants-in-the-u-s/

    Turn it around: less than 2% of the US population is Black immigrants, with less than a fifth of the growth of the black population since 1980 coming from immigration.

    Both are true.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,407
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Evidence? The Tory voteshare actually increased in polls today after Johnson survived his VONC. Nobody else in the Tory party has Boris' charisma and personality and nobody else would do any better at this time, indeed most alternatives would do worse.

    Note too Sunak does no better than Boris v Starmer as preferred PM either

    If you want to retain the lying buffoon go right ahead.

    It's only the nation and the reputation of the Conservative Party that will suffer.
    Leftwingers like you of course want to get rid of Boris just as you wanted to get rid of Thatcher as they were general election winners.


    Same as we Conservatives wanted to get rid of general election winner Blair and correctly as Labour has lost 4 consecutive general elections since he went
    I want rid of Johnson because he is a lazy, lying shit and unfit for office.

    The Conservatives will have a better chance at the next GE with a new leader who has competence and integrity, but go right ahead and stick with your man and reap the result.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    dixiedean said:

    Derby County's takeover missed the deadline. Now all up in the air again.

    Sadly I’m not at all surprised but then again I think 99% of crypto is a scam
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    You can't "defend your borders" without either a huge surveillance network or intrusive checks on people within the borders.

    That's a fact of life that some people can't seem to live with. Perimeter or privacy. Not both.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,407
    Front page of the "i": Zahawi is the unity candidate.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited June 2022
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Evidence? The Tory voteshare actually increased in polls today after Johnson survived his VONC. Nobody else in the Tory party has Boris' charisma and personality and nobody else would do any better at this time, indeed most alternatives would do worse.

    Note too Sunak does no better than Boris v Starmer as preferred PM either

    If you want to retain the lying buffoon go right ahead.

    It's only the nation and the reputation of the Conservative Party that will suffer.
    Leftwingers like you of course want to get rid of Boris just as you wanted to get rid of Thatcher as they were general election winners.


    Same as we Conservatives wanted to get rid of general election winner Blair and correctly as Labour has lost 4 consecutive general elections since he went
    I want Boris gone and am not leftwing, but someone who shares in common with148 of his mps their desire to replace him who tonight seem to be organising a rejection of Boris by over 65 party chairs across the country

    Furthermore tonight, Welsh Conservatives are considering setting up their own distinct Welsh party
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    DavidL said:

    One of the great speeches of Congress has been given by Liz Chaney taking on Trump and his lies full on. Some highlights on this thread: https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/6/10/2103338/-High-Praise-for-Liz-Cheney
    I urge those who have not seen or heard this yet to listen. Clear, measured, unequivocal, just superb.

    You'd really like to think that this is it for Trump but in a country now enduring a mass shooting a day which cannot agree about banning semi automatic rifles, who knows. Tremendous courage though. Really exceptional.

    Pity she can’t be so forthright about her own father. Now he truly was a threat to American values and liberty (as well as being a total warmonger).
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,785
    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Quick calculation shows a similar risk level per competitor as an illegal boat crossing of the Mediterranean from Libya to Italy.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
    And you have no care that they are killed
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
    And you have no care that they are killed
    No. I don't care at all. I hate people who drive dangerous, noisy vehicles more than I hate anyone or anything else. Ban it all.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
    And you have no care that they are killed
    No. I don't care at all. I hate people who drive dangerous, noisy vehicles more than I hate anyone or anything else. Ban it all.
    The TT races go back decades and it is a recognised sporting occasion not random use of motor bikes

    However, you obviously lack any form of empathy for those killed which says more about you then them and their families
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,884

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
    And you have no care that they are killed
    No. I don't care at all. I hate people who drive dangerous, noisy vehicles more than I hate anyone or anything else. Ban it all.
    The TT races go back decades and it is a recognised sporting occasion not random use of motor bikes

    However, you obviously lack any form of empathy for those killed which says more about you then them and their families
    The TT is going to have to stop in its current form. It's nowhere near the pinnacle of the sport and is just hasbeens and nevergonnabes risking their lives for two or three mortgage payments.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    edited June 2022

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
    And you have no care that they are killed
    No. I don't care at all. I hate people who drive dangerous, noisy vehicles more than I hate anyone or anything else. Ban it all.
    The TT races go back decades and it is a recognised sporting occasion not random use of motor bikes

    However, you obviously lack any form of empathy for those killed which says more about you then them and their families
    There used to be deaths each year on Mad Sunday, when the course was opened for any rider. It is part of the mystique of the TT. There are no runoff areas, but rather stone walls at corners as these are public roads. Every biker knows this. I write as a former biker.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,842
    edited June 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
    And you have no care that they are killed
    No. I don't care at all. I hate people who drive dangerous, noisy vehicles more than I hate anyone or anything else. Ban it all.
    The TT races go back decades and it is a recognised sporting occasion not random use of motor bikes

    However, you obviously lack any form of empathy for those killed which says more about you then them and their families
    The TT is going to have to stop in its current form. It's nowhere near the pinnacle of the sport and is just hasbeens and nevergonnabes risking their lives for two or three mortgage payments.
    Got a mate was a Plod on IOM. Police, hospitals, bloody love it. Fortnight on overtime.
    Hotels caffs too.
    So it will continue.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,842
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Jesus, the Armenian Genocide only gets worse

    They have now resorted to cannibalism

    (I am reading The Hundred Year Walk, it is compelling but harrowing)

    During the holodomor the Soviet government put up posters saying Hey, don't eat your own kids, that's not nice
    Not Tories in any way.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082

    Front page of the "i": Zahawi is the unity candidate.

    According to Yougov polling? 🤔🤔🤔
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
    And you have no care that they are killed
    No. I don't care at all. I hate people who drive dangerous, noisy vehicles more than I hate anyone or anything else. Ban it all.
    The TT races go back decades and it is a recognised sporting occasion not random use of motor bikes

    However, you obviously lack any form of empathy for those killed which says more about you then them and their families
    Empathy. Tell it to the tossers who rides their stupid cars and motorbikes around town, with the sound of their revving driving everyone else mad even if their in their own homes. Motorbikes and noisy cars are a form of antisocial behaviour you literally cannot escape from. They people who do this sort of thing for fun are absolute and total bastards.
    Noise pollution is deadly. It destroys people's mental health. People who do it for fun are awful. You wouldn't tolerate someone marching up your street at 1am banging a bass drum, night after night. You'd be out there having words or calling the police. You know you would.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    edited June 2022

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
    And you have no care that they are killed
    No. I don't care at all. I hate people who drive dangerous, noisy vehicles more than I hate anyone or anything else. Ban it all.
    The TT races go back decades and it is a recognised sporting occasion not random use of motor bikes

    However, you obviously lack any form of empathy for those killed which says more about you then them and their families
    Bear baiting and cock fighting used to be sports. They went back hundreds of years. But we banned them because we like animals. As soon as someone does a study on the mental distress dogs feel when a several motorbikes roar past every night, we'd have noise limits enforced within a week. But humans' distress, nobody cares.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
    And you have no care that they are killed
    No. I don't care at all. I hate people who drive dangerous, noisy vehicles more than I hate anyone or anything else. Ban it all.
    The TT races go back decades and it is a recognised sporting occasion not random use of motor bikes

    However, you obviously lack any form of empathy for those killed which says more about you then them and their families
    Empathy. Tell it to the tossers who rides their stupid cars and motorbikes around town, with the sound of their revving driving everyone else mad even if their in their own homes. Motorbikes and noisy cars are a form of antisocial behaviour you literally cannot escape from. They people who do this sort of thing for fun are absolute and total bastards.
    Noise pollution is deadly. It destroys people's mental health. People who do it for fun are awful. You wouldn't tolerate someone marching up your street at 1am banging a bass drum, night after night. You'd be out there having words or calling the police. You know you would.
    The deaths relate to the TT which is an annual event going back decades not a random biker

    And of course I would object to what you describe but I would express sympathy if they were killed
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,785
    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
    And you have no care that they are killed
    No. I don't care at all. I hate people who drive dangerous, noisy vehicles more than I hate anyone or anything else. Ban it all.
    The TT races go back decades and it is a recognised sporting occasion not random use of motor bikes

    However, you obviously lack any form of empathy for those killed which says more about you then them and their families
    The TT is going to have to stop in its current form. It's nowhere near the pinnacle of the sport and is just hasbeens and nevergonnabes risking their lives for two or three mortgage payments.
    When @Dura_Ace says something is too reckless........

    I reckon my numbers hold. 520 looks like the max competitor count (Inc sidecars) across the 8 races, so that is 1% of competitors died, and that is not a crazy outlier.

    Putting to sea in a dinghy across the mad was estimated as a 1.5% chance of dying. The narrower English Channel crossings will be significantly safer than doing the TT.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,981

    NEW THREAD

  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
    And you have no care that they are killed
    No. I don't care at all. I hate people who drive dangerous, noisy vehicles more than I hate anyone or anything else. Ban it all.
    The TT races go back decades and it is a recognised sporting occasion not random use of motor bikes

    However, you obviously lack any form of empathy for those killed which says more about you then them and their families
    Empathy. Tell it to the tossers who rides their stupid cars and motorbikes around town, with the sound of their revving driving everyone else mad even if their in their own homes. Motorbikes and noisy cars are a form of antisocial behaviour you literally cannot escape from. They people who do this sort of thing for fun are absolute and total bastards.
    Noise pollution is deadly. It destroys people's mental health. People who do it for fun are awful. You wouldn't tolerate someone marching up your street at 1am banging a bass drum, night after night. You'd be out there having words or calling the police. You know you would.
    The deaths relate to the TT which is an annual event going back decades not a random biker

    And of course I would object to what you describe but I would express sympathy if they were killed
    Of course you would express sympathy, you're nothing if not sanctimonious. Did you buy flowers and leave them somewhere public when Diana died? I bet you did.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    edited June 2022
    TSE lied! No new thread yet..
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,775
    445 on Redactle and I cheated very badly once I was close to 400.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Pro_Rata said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
    And you have no care that they are killed
    No. I don't care at all. I hate people who drive dangerous, noisy vehicles more than I hate anyone or anything else. Ban it all.
    The TT races go back decades and it is a recognised sporting occasion not random use of motor bikes

    However, you obviously lack any form of empathy for those killed which says more about you then them and their families
    The TT is going to have to stop in its current form. It's nowhere near the pinnacle of the sport and is just hasbeens and nevergonnabes risking their lives for two or three mortgage payments.
    When @Dura_Ace says something is too reckless........

    I reckon my numbers hold. 520 looks like the max competitor count (Inc sidecars) across the 8 races, so that is 1% of competitors died, and that is not a crazy outlier.

    Putting to sea in a dinghy across the mad was estimated as a 1.5% chance of dying. The narrower English Channel crossings will be significantly safer than doing the TT.
    Send every motorcyclist to Rwanda. If Priti Patel did that, even I'd vote for her, smirking ghoul or not.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,981
    Thoughts and prayers for monarchist Tories at this time.

    The Prince of Wales has privately described the government’s policy to send migrants to Rwanda as “appalling”, The Times has been told.

    Prince Charles is said to be particularly frustrated at Boris Johnson’s asylum policy as he is due to represent the Queen at the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Kigali, the capital of Rwanda, this month.

    Migrants who arrive in Britain illegally face being deported to Rwanda, more than 4,000 miles away, under a deal struck by Priti Patel, the home secretary, in April.

    Today Patel overcame an initial legal challenge to the policy after a High Court judge ruled that the first flight due to deport migrants on Tuesday could go ahead.

    A source had heard Charles, 73, expressing opposition to the policy several times in private and said he was particularly uncomfortable about it amid fears that it would overshadow the summit on June 23.

    “He said he was more than disappointed at the policy,” the source said. “He said he thinks the government’s whole approach is appalling. It was clear he was not impressed with the government’s direction of travel.”

    Clarence House did not deny that Charles was opposed to the policy


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-charles-flying-migrants-to-rwanda-is-appalling-l6jzklfhm

    #TakeBackControlFromOurUnelectedRulers
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,981
    Farooq said:

    TSE lied! No new thread yet..

    Yeah, premature posting.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    tlg86 said:

    Five killed at the TT. I know the competitors know the risks, and people die rock climbing and skiing, but it's still tough to hear about. :disappointed:

    Noisy bastards getting splashed is something I wouldn't lose sleep over
    I am not so sure the family and friends of the father and son killed today would be pleased with such a callous remark
    They make people's lives a misery with all the noise they make. Fuck em.
    And you have no care that they are killed
    No. I don't care at all. I hate people who drive dangerous, noisy vehicles more than I hate anyone or anything else. Ban it all.
    The TT races go back decades and it is a recognised sporting occasion not random use of motor bikes

    However, you obviously lack any form of empathy for those killed which says more about you then them and their families
    Empathy. Tell it to the tossers who rides their stupid cars and motorbikes around town, with the sound of their revving driving everyone else mad even if their in their own homes. Motorbikes and noisy cars are a form of antisocial behaviour you literally cannot escape from. They people who do this sort of thing for fun are absolute and total bastards.
    Noise pollution is deadly. It destroys people's mental health. People who do it for fun are awful. You wouldn't tolerate someone marching up your street at 1am banging a bass drum, night after night. You'd be out there having words or calling the police. You know you would.
    The deaths relate to the TT which is an annual event going back decades not a random biker

    And of course I would object to what you describe but I would express sympathy if they were killed
    Of course you would express sympathy, you're nothing if not sanctimonious. Did you buy flowers and leave them somewhere public when Diana died? I bet you did.
    Of course I didn't but I do respect life
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,785
    The new thread is there on vf, but this one is holding on.

    Only one way to sort this...... FIGHT
  • "One-in-ten Black people in the U. S. are immigrants." And the number is rising rapidly.
    source: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/01/27/key-findings-about-black-immigrants-in-the-u-s/

    What's the point of that comment?

    One in seven people in America are immigrants.

    So it would seem the black proportion of migrants is lower than the national proportion.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,153
    Anyone seen the new thread? 😊
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,996

    NEW THREAD

    Soon there will be a new thread, in which PB anti-Boris Camerooners will win a majority.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,287
    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,981
    Andy_JS said:

    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.

    Did you miss his mother getting involved in the politics of the indyref?

    He’s following in her footsteps.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • Early today somebody was making a song and dance about the claim there were ~2500 fans of which ~1700 were Liverpool fans going to the Stade de France with so-called "fake" tickets.

    Now UEFA have admitted that 2,700 Liverpool fans with genuine tickets did not make it into the Stadium for the final they had legitimate tickets for. Even on official figures now, there were more fans who didn't make it into the Stadium with legitimate tickets, than there were people with so-called "fake" tickets.

    What a shocking failure by the authorities. Lucky really it didn't end up worse, the fans were really well behaved despite all the provocation not to end up with much worse happening, when thousands of ticket holders were denied entrance.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,287
    edited June 2022
    According to this newspaper report, Prince Charles lobbied Tony Blair to try to get the fox hunting ban reversed.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-charles-tony-blair-fox-hunting-letters-published-information-commissioner-public-read-royal-wales-a7856651.html

    "The Government is reportedly stalling the release of Prince Charles’ letters to Tony Blair about fox hunting after the Freedom of Information watchdog said they should be published. Prince Charles lobbied the former Labour prime minister in a series of private letters to scrap the fox hunting ban, and those letters may be revealed to the public."
  • Andy_JS said:

    According to this newspaper report, Prince Charles lobbied Tony Blair to try to get the fox hunting ban reversed.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-charles-tony-blair-fox-hunting-letters-published-information-commissioner-public-read-royal-wales-a7856651.html

    "The Government is reportedly stalling the release of Prince Charles’ letters to Tony Blair about fox hunting after the Freedom of Information watchdog said they should be published. Prince Charles lobbied the former Labour prime minister in a series of private letters to scrap the fox hunting ban, and those letters may be revealed to the public."

    If Charles wants to be shaping politics he should be running for election.

    A normal citizen lobbying government is perfectly acceptable. An unelected constitutional monarch or heir to the monarchy? Time to scrap our unelected rulers as soon as is acceptable after the fall of London Bridge.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    Andy_JS said:

    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.

    Did you miss his mother getting involved in the politics of the indyref?

    He’s following in her footsteps.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    And Scots correctly followed her lead and voted against independence. She made a vow at the Coronation to serve the whole United Kingdom as one union
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.

    Did you miss his mother getting involved in the politics of the indyref?

    He’s following in her footsteps.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    And Scots correctly followed her lead and voted against independence. She made a vow at the Coronation to serve the whole United Kingdom as one union
    Luckily it's not up to her at all. The people decide.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    Andy_JS said:

    According to this newspaper report, Prince Charles lobbied Tony Blair to try to get the fox hunting ban reversed.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-charles-tony-blair-fox-hunting-letters-published-information-commissioner-public-read-royal-wales-a7856651.html

    "The Government is reportedly stalling the release of Prince Charles’ letters to Tony Blair about fox hunting after the Freedom of Information watchdog said they should be published. Prince Charles lobbied the former Labour prime minister in a series of private letters to scrap the fox hunting ban, and those letters may be revealed to the public."

    If Charles wants to be shaping politics he should be running for election.

    A normal citizen lobbying government is perfectly acceptable. An unelected constitutional monarch or heir to the monarchy? Time to scrap our unelected rulers as soon as is acceptable after the fall of London Bridge.
    Absolutely not.

    He is perfectly entitled to air his views even if the elected government ultimately decides and indeed many rural communities were hit hard by the abolition of foxhunting while foxes are increasing in number without proper controls at the expense of rabbits, chickens etc
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited June 2022

    Thoughts and prayers for monarchist Tories at this time.

    The Prince of Wales has privately described the government’s policy to send migrants to Rwanda as “appalling”, The Times has been told.

    Prince Charles is said to be particularly frustrated at Boris Johnson’s asylum policy as he is due to represent the Queen at the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Kigali, the capital of Rwanda, this month.

    Migrants who arrive in Britain illegally face being deported to Rwanda, more than 4,000 miles away, under a deal struck by Priti Patel, the home secretary, in April.

    Today Patel overcame an initial legal challenge to the policy after a High Court judge ruled that the first flight due to deport migrants on Tuesday could go ahead.

    A source had heard Charles, 73, expressing opposition to the policy several times in private and said he was particularly uncomfortable about it amid fears that it would overshadow the summit on June 23.

    “He said he was more than disappointed at the policy,” the source said. “He said he thinks the government’s whole approach is appalling. It was clear he was not impressed with the government’s direction of travel.”

    Clarence House did not deny that Charles was opposed to the policy


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-charles-flying-migrants-to-rwanda-is-appalling-l6jzklfhm

    #TakeBackControlFromOurUnelectedRulers

    He is also entitled to his views on the Rwanda policy even if I disagree with them
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.

    Did you miss his mother getting involved in the politics of the indyref?

    He’s following in her footsteps.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    And Scots correctly followed her lead and voted against independence. She made a vow at the Coronation to serve the whole United Kingdom as one union
    Luckily it's not up to her at all. The people decide.
    She could in theory veto a UK government bill for an independence referendum.

    The people also only get a choice on independence if the UK government allows them a referendum and then decides to implement the result

  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    According to this newspaper report, Prince Charles lobbied Tony Blair to try to get the fox hunting ban reversed.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-charles-tony-blair-fox-hunting-letters-published-information-commissioner-public-read-royal-wales-a7856651.html

    "The Government is reportedly stalling the release of Prince Charles’ letters to Tony Blair about fox hunting after the Freedom of Information watchdog said they should be published. Prince Charles lobbied the former Labour prime minister in a series of private letters to scrap the fox hunting ban, and those letters may be revealed to the public."

    If Charles wants to be shaping politics he should be running for election.

    A normal citizen lobbying government is perfectly acceptable. An unelected constitutional monarch or heir to the monarchy? Time to scrap our unelected rulers as soon as is acceptable after the fall of London Bridge.
    Absolutely not.

    He is perfectly entitled to air his views even if the elected government ultimately decides and indeed many rural communities were hit hard by the abolition of foxhunting while foxes are increasing in number without proper controls at the expense of rabbits, chickens etc
    Scientists counted fox poo and found that hunting bans didn't affect fox populations:
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2761-hunting-does-not-control-foxes-says-study/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    According to this newspaper report, Prince Charles lobbied Tony Blair to try to get the fox hunting ban reversed.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-charles-tony-blair-fox-hunting-letters-published-information-commissioner-public-read-royal-wales-a7856651.html

    "The Government is reportedly stalling the release of Prince Charles’ letters to Tony Blair about fox hunting after the Freedom of Information watchdog said they should be published. Prince Charles lobbied the former Labour prime minister in a series of private letters to scrap the fox hunting ban, and those letters may be revealed to the public."

    If Charles wants to be shaping politics he should be running for election.

    A normal citizen lobbying government is perfectly acceptable. An unelected constitutional monarch or heir to the monarchy? Time to scrap our unelected rulers as soon as is acceptable after the fall of London Bridge.
    Absolutely not.

    He is perfectly entitled to air his views even if the elected government ultimately decides and indeed many rural communities were hit hard by the abolition of foxhunting while foxes are increasing in number without proper controls at the expense of rabbits, chickens etc
    iirc there was an issue with the then Prince of Wales before he became Edward VII being rather indiscrete about his loathing of various politicians.

  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.

    Did you miss his mother getting involved in the politics of the indyref?

    He’s following in her footsteps.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    And Scots correctly followed her lead and voted against independence. She made a vow at the Coronation to serve the whole United Kingdom as one union
    Luckily it's not up to her at all. The people decide.
    She could in theory veto a UK government bill for an independence referendum.

    The people also only get a choice on independence if the UK government allows them a referendum and then decides to implement the result
    Would be hilarious if she tried. Violence would follow.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,287
    From 2002:

    "Ban hunting and I might as well leave, says Charles
    by GRAEME WILSON, Daily Mail

    Prince Charles has made plain his exasperation at moves to ban foxhunting.

    He told a private gathering, which included a senior politician: 'If the Labour government ever gets around to banning foxhunting, I might as well leave this country and spend the rest of my life skiing.'

    The Prince has also suggested that Ministers would never dare treat ethnic minorities or homosexuals in the way they have treated farmers and rural communities.

    In a private letter to the Prime Minister, Charles made clear that he backed the view of a farmer from Cumbria who told him 'if we, as a group, were black or gay, we would not be victimised or picked upon'.

    The Prince of Wales is understood to have gone on to accuse Mr Blair's Government of 'destroying the countryside'."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-139491/Ban-hunting-I-leave-says-Charles.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited June 2022
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.

    Did you miss his mother getting involved in the politics of the indyref?

    He’s following in her footsteps.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    And Scots correctly followed her lead and voted against independence. She made a vow at the Coronation to serve the whole United Kingdom as one union
    Luckily it's not up to her at all. The people decide.
    She could in theory veto a UK government bill for an independence referendum.

    The people also only get a choice on independence if the UK government allows them a referendum and then decides to implement the result
    Would be hilarious if she tried. Violence would follow.
    So what, the armed forces take an oath of loyalty to the Crown not a mob and rabble of Scottish Nationalists
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Andy_JS said:

    From 2002:

    "Ban hunting and I might as well leave, says Charles
    by GRAEME WILSON, Daily Mail

    Prince Charles has made plain his exasperation at moves to ban foxhunting.

    He told a private gathering, which included a senior politician: 'If the Labour government ever gets around to banning foxhunting, I might as well leave this country and spend the rest of my life skiing.'

    The Prince has also suggested that Ministers would never dare treat ethnic minorities or homosexuals in the way they have treated farmers and rural communities.

    In a private letter to the Prime Minister, Charles made clear that he backed the view of a farmer from Cumbria who told him 'if we, as a group, were black or gay, we would not be victimised or picked upon'.

    The Prince of Wales is understood to have gone on to accuse Mr Blair's Government of 'destroying the countryside'."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-139491/Ban-hunting-I-leave-says-Charles.html

    haha, what a puffed up load of old toss he is
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.

    Did you miss his mother getting involved in the politics of the indyref?

    He’s following in her footsteps.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    And Scots correctly followed her lead and voted against independence. She made a vow at the Coronation to serve the whole United Kingdom as one union
    Luckily it's not up to her at all. The people decide.
    She could in theory veto a UK government bill for an independence referendum.

    The people also only get a choice on independence if the UK government allows them a referendum and then decides to implement the result
    Would be hilarious if she tried. Violence would follow.
    So what, the armed forces take an oath of loyalty to the Crown not a rabble of Scottish Nationalists
    TANK BOY IS BACK
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    Ben Wallace was in Ukraine today.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    According to this newspaper report, Prince Charles lobbied Tony Blair to try to get the fox hunting ban reversed.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-charles-tony-blair-fox-hunting-letters-published-information-commissioner-public-read-royal-wales-a7856651.html

    "The Government is reportedly stalling the release of Prince Charles’ letters to Tony Blair about fox hunting after the Freedom of Information watchdog said they should be published. Prince Charles lobbied the former Labour prime minister in a series of private letters to scrap the fox hunting ban, and those letters may be revealed to the public."

    If Charles wants to be shaping politics he should be running for election.

    A normal citizen lobbying government is perfectly acceptable. An unelected constitutional monarch or heir to the monarchy? Time to scrap our unelected rulers as soon as is acceptable after the fall of London Bridge.
    Absolutely not.

    He is perfectly entitled to air his views even if the elected government ultimately decides and indeed many rural communities were hit hard by the abolition of foxhunting while foxes are increasing in number without proper controls at the expense of rabbits, chickens etc
    iirc there was an issue with the then Prince of Wales before he became Edward VII being rather indiscrete about his loathing of various politicians.

    He was a better than expected monarch too in his short 9 year reign also after the very long reign of his mother
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044

    Ben Wallace was in Ukraine today.

    Those leadership run photos just take themselves kids.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.

    Did you miss his mother getting involved in the politics of the indyref?

    He’s following in her footsteps.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    And Scots correctly followed her lead and voted against independence. She made a vow at the Coronation to serve the whole United Kingdom as one union
    Luckily it's not up to her at all. The people decide.
    She could in theory veto a UK government bill for an independence referendum.

    The people also only get a choice on independence if the UK government allows them a referendum and then decides to implement the result
    Would be hilarious if she tried. Violence would follow.
    No monarch has refused royal assent since Queen Anne in 1700 and something iirc
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited June 2022

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.

    Did you miss his mother getting involved in the politics of the indyref?

    He’s following in her footsteps.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    And Scots correctly followed her lead and voted against independence. She made a vow at the Coronation to serve the whole United Kingdom as one union
    Luckily it's not up to her at all. The people decide.
    She could in theory veto a UK government bill for an independence referendum.

    The people also only get a choice on independence if the UK government allows them a referendum and then decides to implement the result
    Would be hilarious if she tried. Violence would follow.
    No monarch has refused royal assent since Queen Anne in 1700 and something iirc
    1708.

    And even then it was because the government changed its mind.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Militia_Bill?wprov=sfla1
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279

    Andy_JS said:

    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.

    Did you miss his mother getting involved in the politics of the indyref?

    He’s following in her footsteps.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    I think the Queen is entitled to a view when it comes to the break up of her Kingdom, a Government Home Office policy not so much..
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,287
    "Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage

    Unless Prince Charles wants to destroy the monarchy he had better shut up fast."

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1535379832850235392
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    fitalass said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.

    Did you miss his mother getting involved in the politics of the indyref?

    He’s following in her footsteps.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    I think the Queen is entitled to a view when it comes to the break up of her Kingdom, a Government Home Office policy not so much..
    It's not hers.The country belongs to the people.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage

    Unless Prince Charles wants to destroy the monarchy he had better shut up fast."

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1535379832850235392

    "I should know -- I ruin everything by talking"
  • legs11legs11 Posts: 5
    edited June 2022

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.

    Did you miss his mother getting involved in the politics of the indyref?

    He’s following in her footsteps.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    And Scots correctly followed her lead and voted against independence. She made a vow at the Coronation to serve the whole United Kingdom as one union
    Luckily it's not up to her at all. The people decide.
    She could in theory veto a UK government bill for an independence referendum.

    The people also only get a choice on independence if the UK government allows them a referendum and then decides to implement the result
    Would be hilarious if she tried. Violence would follow.
    No monarch has refused royal assent since Queen Anne in 1700 and something iirc
    But governments have several times "agreed changes" to bills that monarchs have requested changes to using the queen's consent procedure. It's very different from royal assent.

    According to the Privy Council Office, "The Privy Council is the mechanism through which interdepartmental agreement is reached on those items of Government business which, for historical or other reasons, fall to Ministers as Privy Counsellors rather than as Departmental Ministers."

    That site used to say something about coordinating between government departments, leaving the reader none the wiser as to why a department different from the Cabinet Office needed to duplicate one of the Cabinet Office's main functions. But at least that was better than saying what it says now, which is essentially that the Privy Council does what the Privy Council does.

    In other news, over 1000 bills have been vetted by the queen or her eldest son (because there is "prince's consent" too) before being put to Parliament. How many have been changed as a result of responses received? We don't know.

    And have people forgotten the "give me three good reasons to stay in the EU" story about the queen, including immediately before the Brexit referendum? Commentators generally say they're admiring of the "think carefully before you vote" intervention in the 2014 Sindyref. Amnesia seems to be more their approach towards the 2016 effort.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage

    Unless Prince Charles wants to destroy the monarchy he had better shut up fast."

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1535379832850235392

    Nigel 'light aircraft' Farage's next campaign: a republic?

    Presumably with him as President.
  • legs11legs11 Posts: 5
    legs11 said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Prince Charles getting involved in politics again, against the advice of his mother.

    Did you miss his mother getting involved in the politics of the indyref?

    He’s following in her footsteps.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    And Scots correctly followed her lead and voted against independence. She made a vow at the Coronation to serve the whole United Kingdom as one union
    Luckily it's not up to her at all. The people decide.
    She could in theory veto a UK government bill for an independence referendum.

    The people also only get a choice on independence if the UK government allows them a referendum and then decides to implement the result
    Would be hilarious if she tried. Violence would follow.
    No monarch has refused royal assent since Queen Anne in 1700 and something iirc
    But governments have several times "agreed changes" to bills that monarchs have requested changes to using the queen's consent procedure. It's very different from royal assent.
    Guardian article on this that I meant to link to:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/08/royals-vetted-more-than-1000-laws-via-queens-consent
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,287
    O/T "Leaders | What to do about myopia
    Short-sightedness has become an epidemic
    To fight it, schools should send their students outside"

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/06/09/short-sightedness-has-become-an-epidemic
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,944
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T "Leaders | What to do about myopia
    Short-sightedness has become an epidemic
    To fight it, schools should send their students outside"

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/06/09/short-sightedness-has-become-an-epidemic

    Young'uns staring at screens all days seems a more likely explanation than dimly-lit classrooms. How well lit were schools in the 1950s or even 1850s?
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage

    Unless Prince Charles wants to destroy the monarchy he had better shut up fast."

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1535379832850235392

    What a revolting bully Farage is.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    mwadams said:

    Where does a consistent Con +5, Lab -5 come from now? Even if Johnson goes?

    Certainty firming up from disenchanted mid term tories probably gets a couple % swing, then swingback
    I don't think swingback is a real thing. Or, rather, I'm unconvinced so far by the concept.
    I'm unconvinced it's automatic. Didn't see much in 2017.
    Edit. I realise that isn't classic swingback.

    Found this ancient piece.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/01/02/the-swingback-myth-do-governments-really-recover/
    Where’s the original discussion thread?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,094

    Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage

    Unless Prince Charles wants to destroy the monarchy he had better shut up fast."

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1535379832850235392

    What a revolting bully Farage is.
    Don't forget, every time that man speaks, to play this back in your head.

    The trouble with you, Spode, is that just because you have succeeded in inducing a handful of half-wits to disfigure the London scene by going about in black shorts, you think you're someone. You hear them shouting "Heil, Spode!" and you imagine it is the Voice of the People. That is where you make your bloomer. What the Voice of the People is saying is: "Look at that frightful ass Spode swanking about in footer bags! Did you ever in your puff see such a perfect perisher?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,094

    Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage

    Unless Prince Charles wants to destroy the monarchy he had better shut up fast."

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1535379832850235392

    Nigel 'light aircraft' Farage's next campaign: a republic?

    Presumably with him as President.
    Just "consul" initially, but eventually he may be persuaded to Imperator Farage Divi Filius Augustus.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    mwadams said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage

    Unless Prince Charles wants to destroy the monarchy he had better shut up fast."

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1535379832850235392

    What a revolting bully Farage is.
    Don't forget, every time that man speaks, to play this back in your head.

    The trouble with you, Spode, is that just because you have succeeded in inducing a handful of half-wits to disfigure the London scene by going about in black shorts, you think you're someone. You hear them shouting "Heil, Spode!" and you imagine it is the Voice of the People. That is where you make your bloomer. What the Voice of the People is saying is: "Look at that frightful ass Spode swanking about in footer bags! Did you ever in your puff see such a perfect perisher?
    Dear old Plum. When will England see his like again? The country needs quality comic writing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780

    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    mwadams said:

    Where does a consistent Con +5, Lab -5 come from now? Even if Johnson goes?

    Certainty firming up from disenchanted mid term tories probably gets a couple % swing, then swingback
    I don't think swingback is a real thing. Or, rather, I'm unconvinced so far by the concept.
    I'm unconvinced it's automatic. Didn't see much in 2017.
    Edit. I realise that isn't classic swingback.

    Found this ancient piece.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/01/02/the-swingback-myth-do-governments-really-recover/
    Where’s the original discussion thread?
    I think it was a pre-Vanilla thread. (We used to use Disqus.)
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,102
    G'morning all.

    I went to the Edvard Munch exhibition at the Courtauld Gallery yesterday. Very enjoyable and for anyone close to London a recommended trip alongside something else. It's only two rooms but interesting and the Courtauld has some other wonderful works of art.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,102
    edited June 2022
    It's very quiet on here.

    If Johnson sticks around for the next two years then we're in for a really unpleasant time. These 'red meat' policies are only going to increase, turning this once great country into a cesspit of hate.

    I know that a lot of you Conservatives on here agree about this, for which I'm grateful.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    mwadams said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage

    Unless Prince Charles wants to destroy the monarchy he had better shut up fast."

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1535379832850235392

    What a revolting bully Farage is.
    Don't forget, every time that man speaks, to play this back in your head.

    The trouble with you, Spode, is that just because you have succeeded in inducing a handful of half-wits to disfigure the London scene by going about in black shorts, you think you're someone. You hear them shouting "Heil, Spode!" and you imagine it is the Voice of the People. That is where you make your bloomer. What the Voice of the People is saying is: "Look at that frightful ass Spode swanking about in footer bags! Did you ever in your puff see such a perfect perisher?
    That is an unfair comparison.

    Farage could never be a successful designer of women's underclothing.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,603

    mwadams said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage

    Unless Prince Charles wants to destroy the monarchy he had better shut up fast."

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1535379832850235392

    What a revolting bully Farage is.
    Don't forget, every time that man speaks, to play this back in your head.

    The trouble with you, Spode, is that just because you have succeeded in inducing a handful of half-wits to disfigure the London scene by going about in black shorts, you think you're someone. You hear them shouting "Heil, Spode!" and you imagine it is the Voice of the People. That is where you make your bloomer. What the Voice of the People is saying is: "Look at that frightful ass Spode swanking about in footer bags! Did you ever in your puff see such a perfect perisher?
    That is an unfair comparison.

    Farage could never be a successful designer of women's underclothing.
    On his enoblement, Lord Sidcup would certainly work for Nigel.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    Heathener said:

    It's very quiet on here.

    If Johnson sticks around for the next two years then we're in for a really unpleasant time. These 'red meat' policies are only going to increase, turning this once great country into a cesspit of hate.

    I know that a lot of you Conservatives on here agree about this, for which I'm grateful.

    Good morning

    We are doing our best supporting the 148 to remedy the problem
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,102

    Heathener said:

    It's very quiet on here.

    If Johnson sticks around for the next two years then we're in for a really unpleasant time. These 'red meat' policies are only going to increase, turning this once great country into a cesspit of hate.

    I know that a lot of you Conservatives on here agree about this, for which I'm grateful.

    Good morning

    We are doing our best supporting the 148 to remedy the problem
    :smiley:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,315
    Heathener said:

    It's very quiet on here.

    If Johnson sticks around for the next two years then we're in for a really unpleasant time. These 'red meat' policies are only going to increase, turning this once great country into a cesspit of hate.

    I know that a lot of you Conservatives on here agree about this, for which I'm grateful.

    Good morning from Tbilisi

    It might help if there weren’t three open threads. Two of them from the 1890s, or thereabouts
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620

    A very good morning to one and all.

    It's a lot brighter than it was on this day 60 years ago. How do I know? Because it's the Cole's Diamond Wedding… 60 years ago, in the morning and indeed until the Wedding Breakfast it was rather overcast, but as we left for our honeymoon the sun came out!

    Congratulations sir.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,227

    A very good morning to one and all.

    It's a lot brighter than it was on this day 60 years ago. How do I know? Because it's the Cole's Diamond Wedding… 60 years ago, in the morning and indeed until the Wedding Breakfast it was rather overcast, but as we left for our honeymoon the sun came out!

    Congrats OKC and spouse! Have a wonderful day....again!!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,315

    A very good morning to one and all.

    It's a lot brighter than it was on this day 60 years ago. How do I know? Because it's the Cole's Diamond Wedding… 60 years ago, in the morning and indeed until the Wedding Breakfast it was rather overcast, but as we left for our honeymoon the sun came out!

    Gratz
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,548

    A very good morning to one and all.

    It's a lot brighter than it was on this day 60 years ago. How do I know? Because it's the Cole's Diamond Wedding… 60 years ago, in the morning and indeed until the Wedding Breakfast it was rather overcast, but as we left for our honeymoon the sun came out!

    Congrats!
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
    Congrats @OldKingCole. It rained on ours 55 years ago, but that made the outdoor photos great.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,603

    Heathener said:

    It's very quiet on here.

    If Johnson sticks around for the next two years then we're in for a really unpleasant time. These 'red meat' policies are only going to increase, turning this once great country into a cesspit of hate.

    I know that a lot of you Conservatives on here agree about this, for which I'm grateful.

    Good morning

    We are doing our best supporting the 148 to remedy the problem
    It's the next 32 you need to be working on, and they are steadfast in their support for BigDog.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,102

    A very good morning to one and all.

    It's a lot brighter than it was on this day 60 years ago. How do I know? Because it's the Cole's Diamond Wedding… 60 years ago, in the morning and indeed until the Wedding Breakfast it was rather overcast, but as we left for our honeymoon the sun came out!

    Congratulations OKC. What marvellous news. I hope you enjoy the special day.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,725
    Heathener said:

    A very good morning to one and all.

    It's a lot brighter than it was on this day 60 years ago. How do I know? Because it's the Cole's Diamond Wedding… 60 years ago, in the morning and indeed until the Wedding Breakfast it was rather overcast, but as we left for our honeymoon the sun came out!

    Congratulations OKC. What marvellous news. I hope you enjoy the special day.
    Thanks everyone; we're not having much of a party today. We are going to have 'a something' when all the family can get here. At the moment Younger Son and family are abroad, and will be until the school term is finished. And the GCSE, or equivalent, exams
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704

    A very good morning to one and all.

    It's a lot brighter than it was on this day 60 years ago. How do I know? Because it's the Cole's Diamond Wedding… 60 years ago, in the morning and indeed until the Wedding Breakfast it was rather overcast, but as we left for our honeymoon the sun came out!

    Congrats. Happy anniversary.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    Good to see Prince Charles taking some moral leadership on the awful policy of sending vulnerable people fleeing war and torture to Rwanda. This policy is not fair or,sustainable. Charles will be a different kind of monarch.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rwanda-deportation-plan-prince-charles-says-policy-is-appalling-as-court-rules-first-asylum-seekers-can-be-sent-away-12631489
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    A very good morning to one and all.

    It's a lot brighter than it was on this day 60 years ago. How do I know? Because it's the Cole's Diamond Wedding… 60 years ago, in the morning and indeed until the Wedding Breakfast it was rather overcast, but as we left for our honeymoon the sun came out!

    Congratulations, what the secret?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,725
    Jonathan said:

    A very good morning to one and all.

    It's a lot brighter than it was on this day 60 years ago. How do I know? Because it's the Cole's Diamond Wedding… 60 years ago, in the morning and indeed until the Wedding Breakfast it was rather overcast, but as we left for our honeymoon the sun came out!

    Congratulations, what the secret?
    Thanks. Secret? My father-in-law advised us to 'never let the sun go down on wrath' and we always tried to sort out any arguments before going to sleep. Sometimes there's been an agreement to differ, but we've tried never to go to sleep cross with each other!
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,336
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    According to this newspaper report, Prince Charles lobbied Tony Blair to try to get the fox hunting ban reversed.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-charles-tony-blair-fox-hunting-letters-published-information-commissioner-public-read-royal-wales-a7856651.html

    "The Government is reportedly stalling the release of Prince Charles’ letters to Tony Blair about fox hunting after the Freedom of Information watchdog said they should be published. Prince Charles lobbied the former Labour prime minister in a series of private letters to scrap the fox hunting ban, and those letters may be revealed to the public."

    If Charles wants to be shaping politics he should be running for election.

    A normal citizen lobbying government is perfectly acceptable. An unelected constitutional monarch or heir to the monarchy? Time to scrap our unelected rulers as soon as is acceptable after the fall of London Bridge.
    Absolutely not.

    He is perfectly entitled to air his views even if the elected government ultimately decides and indeed many rural communities were hit hard by the abolition of foxhunting while foxes are increasing in number without proper controls at the expense of rabbits, chickens etc
    Scientists counted fox poo and found that hunting bans didn't affect fox populations:
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2761-hunting-does-not-control-foxes-says-study/
    So?.......
This discussion has been closed.